Monday Mini: Not Pretty Enough

There are many toxic, dangerous narratives around sexual assault. This is one. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't welcome to Stephane.
Never told your protection of I Heart Radio. Okay, So
before we get into this one, it comes with a
massive content and trigger a warning because we're gonna be
talking about sexual sob and some like really, in my opinion,

(00:29):
painful self esteem issues. And I hate that this is
coming out on like a holiday weekend here in the
United States, but that's just how it happens to be
because this has been something on my mind lately because
through this pandemic, Samantha and I we've been very open
about continuing to process trauma, and especially when it comes

(00:54):
to having a lot of time by yourself and being
mindful and asking questions as to why are you not
coping with something well, or why do you continue to
do this even though you're removed from people like you're
by yourself and you continue to do these things. So

(01:15):
I will say this episode isn't really researched, just from
a lot of personal experience, and because of that, I
asked that you give us grace because it's gonna be
kind of a raw personal discussion and I think we
could expand upon it in a full episode. But I
just wanted to talk about it. But definitely, if you

(01:38):
are not in a good place, I would skipped leet.
So we're talking about this idea that we'll hear a
lot in the media when it comes to sexual assaults. So, yes,
we're going to be talking about sexual assault around especially women.
Um that she wasn't pretty enough to assault, she was

(02:01):
not pretty enough to rape. I would I being the
man here, I would never have done that. She's not
pretty enough. And we hear that in our media and
in news stories pretty frequently. And you know, I hate
to bring him up, but Donald Trump is a great
offender because he said a similar thing when women accused

(02:25):
him and he was like, have you seen her? I
would never And I actually think that should be something
we tease out later in a future episode, because to me,
that feels like a real posturing thing of these guys
who think they only want this image of you know,
traditionally beautiful models going after them anyone else like I

(02:51):
would never touch them because they're beneath me. But I
wanted to talk about this because it sounds so stupid.
But I just got stuck in my head about shaving.
Why do I keep shaving, and I mean during quarantine,

(03:13):
like before I got it, like, you know, maybe I
didn't like it, but I I felt like I should
do it, and I didn't really hate it, Like I
kind of liked the feeling of shaving. It wasn't necessarily
totally society telling me it, although there's definitely aspects of it.
But I liked it. But then during quarantine, it kept

(03:35):
coming back to me, like why are you shaving? You're
not going out, And I just it brung to me
clear as a bell this one day, like in case
you get raped, and it was just like this awful,
awful thought. But when I was fourteen and this happened

(03:55):
to me, where i'd been, like, I think the line
of defining rape is very messy. But when I had
like my first you know, vaginal penis rape, that was
the first thing I thought was it couldn't be happening
because I was not pretty enough for this to happen
to me. And I remember what I was wearing, and

(04:19):
I thought it was so doofy, like it was this stripes,
like pink and purple striped pajamas and I was wearing
this like old white staying sports spraw and it felt
so fat and chabby, and I just like, I thought
this could not be happening to me because you are
not pretty enough. There's no way anyone I would want

(04:42):
that with you. And obviously that's messed up. It's really
messed up. And I remember being high school, which is
whenness was all happening, and I was in eleventh grade.
We read a street car named Desire and if you

(05:04):
haven't read that, essentially hinges on like a sexual assaults.
And my teacher, who was not as being like really
strict and you know, tough, she was asking, you know,
what we thought about that scene and why we thought
it happened. And somebody in class, like I think it

(05:29):
was a dude, said, you know, I don't know, because
she wasn't pretty enough. She wasn't pretty enough. And my teacher,
I remember her saying, like, if you think rape is
about beauty, then you misunderstand the whole situation. It is
about power. And I was shocked, like just totally shocked.
That wasn't my understanding of it. And that's such a

(05:52):
horrible thing to think, Like, that's horrible to think like
beautiful people are going to be the one seget right
let's awful, Like it's awful so many levels, but it's
just that's what I thought, and I still struggle with
it and it's awful. But back when I was going

(06:16):
through this abuse, that's what I would think, is like
I need to shave, or I need to look better
because these guys are gonna come and rate me. But
I need to look good because I thought that was
like my value. And even though I didn't want this
or it wasn't an experience that I asked for or enjoyed,

(06:37):
I wanted them to think I looked good. And I
just don't know. It's it's such a powerful, a powerful
thought that it's like still with me, and it's like
those everyday things you know, like shaving, this is why
you're doing it in case on case happens again that

(06:58):
I'm already preparing and the back of my head in
case it happens again, oh god, oh my god. But
I've also been thinking about that, like it's silly. But
when I talked about like my fan fiction in my
Cinnamon roll and I want you to be happy Cinnamon role,
and I said, like a lot of things I read that,

(07:20):
I talk it up. I talk a big game. They're
so sad. I think that's if I described it to you,
it might not seem so sad, but it's that level
of low self esteem. It's that level of I'm not
worth protecting your not this, but my whole My whole

(07:45):
value is my beauty. So even if I don't want this,
I'm gonna look as good as I can while I
do it, or what happens, which is a danger here.
This is the danger when we talk about not having
sex aid or putting beauty above everything and sexual desirability

(08:11):
of everything for women. Is this, Like, it just makes
me really upset that there are all these narratives around
value when it comes to women and we're not giving
we're not giving young women tools are even just like

(08:32):
worth to say no, Like I thought this might be
how relationships were, and I thought, like I should want it.
I try to convince myself I should want it. It's
just makes me really a great You should And I

(09:05):
know I've been very silent in letting you tell the
story because it is important, and also it's important that
you're able to hash all of us out and obviously
it's a gift for the listeners as myself that you
are entrusting us with this information, So thank you for that.
And I don't want to at all UH takeover or

(09:29):
take away from the trauma, the anxiety, and the processing
of all of this, obviously, because it is important and
it is something absolutely correct to say that victims U
and survivors were not given these tools. But these conversations
are constant conversations of how you're misleading many of the

(09:52):
young people who truly don't understand the dangers of these
conversations and the depth of even the diet conversations that
we've had, where you see mothers in front of their
daughters talking about their value being their looks and their
diets and their bodies, and why that is dangerous and
so therefore if they don't fit that image, then they

(10:15):
are not worthy of protection or worthy of being seen.
And I think that's what happens too often, where we
ignore those conversations and don't realize you've made a foundation
a very unstable, very dangerous grounds for UH women and
for oftentimes victims not being able to say what happened

(10:37):
was wrong, not even recognizing what happened was wrong, and
how traumatizing that alone is compounded into so many more
larger conversations and again, yeah, being triggered with things that
you're technically groomed by. This is whether you thought it
was in your head or whether it was maybe a
small thing or a small word or and like a

(11:00):
passing word during one of your times a trauma, during
your actual situation that you were groomed to think, this
is what you had to be, and this is what
you need your appearance to be. And yeah, that I'm
you're supposed to be appreciative because someone's paying attention to you,
even though this is painfully obvious that it is abuse

(11:22):
and a violation of your being, like your happiness, your trust,
your ability to live happy and fulfilled life, and they
have taken that away from you by those conversations. And
that's the other part to that, this whole I don't
believe you both that comes to it is because it

(11:43):
is a power play of who can get away with
what essentially and what these horrible people perpetrators have done
and what we've allowed to be done and said as
as normal. And that's the most horrific part of it
all is that, honestly, for the longest time, the most smartest,
intelligent people you've ever met do not realize that they

(12:05):
have been victimized. And because that in itself makes you angry,
you don't want to admit it. And so it compounds
that other explanation of not want to say, hey, it's
not our fault, it's there's but because once again we
want to hide it, the shame factor makes it even
a bigger mess in general, and it's so heartbreaking in

(12:33):
every way because there's no end in sight. There's no
end insight as we continue to see trials and cases
and incidents and even abortion laws. That has absolutely everything
to affect this. This, this has a part of that
conversation of how you see us, how you see a person,

(12:53):
where the uterus, what you see our value in, how
little we matter, that's what you just hold us because
you do not recognize us as humans and individuals. This
is that dangerous conversation where my value is whether or
not I'm worthy to be taken advantage of or worthy
to be protected. And it's disgusting in every level because

(13:16):
that's what we also see when we talk about you know,
when you were talking about your triggers being the shaving,
which is significant, which is a significant tail like it's
it's like, Okay, you brought a moment that I'm betting.
There's so many more out there who have incidents similar
to you not betting. I know because we've talked about it,
Like I've talked about it with other women. I've talked

(13:37):
about with other survivors. I've talked about it. My own
triggers are similar, things like this the smells and or
something that I did that I will never do again,
or something that I remember that I was like, what
did I do whatever? But for me, a part of
that is being told because of my race, that I
either deserve something or don't deserve something, even to the
point that when I was molested, even though there were

(14:00):
someone close to me, they were able to separate me
out because I wasn't really one of them. So he
can protect his own but I'm not really one of
them that that level of conversation, and again, therefore I'm
secondary and unworthy of protecting as well as Yeah, that's
what they're used for. They're just for my use in

(14:21):
the story. And that's that whole other conversation that we
are not bringing forward when we talk about again, I
keep going back to the abortion law about why this
is violating and why it's dangerous. It's not just many
people are going to die because I can't get access
to reproductive care when you to talk about that, but
more so that you have put a standard on women

(14:41):
once again or those who have uterus, is that your
value is your body and therefore you are of nothing.
You have nothing of worth outside of that. And what
you we're protecting is not you as a human but
what it could come out of you. And that again
with that same level of not understanding what rape is about.

(15:01):
Rape is not about being attracted to someone. Rape is
about power. Rape is about dismissing someone else's humanity because
you think you have the right or you don't give
it about others in a story because you have feel
like you are able to satiate something that will be
fleeting in the end because you take on this level

(15:24):
of I own you. And that's that conversation of this
is the same mentality that is happening with these laws
and why we are upset. This is why we cried
with the Supreme Court, this is why we cried in election.
This is the fear that's coming out like that. There's
so many underlying issues of these conversations that continue to

(15:50):
let women and young girls know, and those of any
marginalized community that their value is minimal compared to this man. Yeah, yeah,
I totally agree. I feel like that's what the feeling

(16:21):
I got was this sort of underlying what I'm talking
about here, is because you know, you try to tell yourself, okay,
you know, I get that you feel this way, but
it's not the truth. And then you just see these
instances over and over and you have to be like
reminding yourself over and over in the face of it,

(16:42):
and it just gets exhausting after a while. And it's
I don't know, when I think of these men like
who have succeeded and we have done well, who have
had all these accusations against them, and they've said like
she wasn't pretty enough, and they say it in such
a way that it's so confident and so not in

(17:05):
my mind and my experience understanding of they're just they're
just like operating on a whole different level of privilege.
And I am and I know I come from a
lot of privilege, but it's to say that and be
so confident in saying that, like as if it's a
justification for sure, right, Yeah, and it's awful, Like like

(17:28):
I said, it's awful either way, because I've been thinking
about this a lot, and the fact that I even
had that thought is it disgusting. But that's how powerful
it is. But here's the biggest problem to that is
not that they're saying it, is that people are buying it,
and we see it repeated on a constant basis. Yeah,
to say that I've passed off is an understatement. And

(17:51):
by the way, this is how I do my tone.
If people are confused, I get really monotone and quieter.
When I get conferiated, like I'm the quiet to aren't
that flashes out. But anyway, because I realized my tone
may not match my words completely, I understand. But in
general that that we have allowed that to be an
excuse and people accepted and even women women have accepted it.

(18:14):
I've had my mother say like that, where I've heard
her say, yeah, but come on, that girl's fat. He
could do so much better as if that's the reason.
And we've heard that with Bill Clinton when they were
defending him with Monica Lewinsky. We know that that's what
they said. And I remember as a child, and we
talked about this before being seen that, I'm like, she's

(18:34):
smaller than me, how is she fat? And you know,
being like the level and that's what I heard. Of course,
that's what I took away and believed to be true
as well. So we were absolutely fed that and believed
it because again we are constantly seeing that I've worth
is very minimal. Yeah yeah, and we're yeah, we're hearing

(18:55):
that and saying that and being fed that and just
from very such a young age each and that that. Yeah,
looking back at Montica Lewinsky specifically, that that was like
the main narrative of like, no, she's too fat. It's
disgusting and ridiculous and I hate it unless just be honest.
Hillary Clinton said into that too. She allowed that to
be a running headline. Yeah. So I'm not saying she

(19:20):
did anything wrong necessarily, she wasn't the it was Bill
Clinton and Bill Clint's fault, but she fed into the
woman against woman narrative in that line as well. M hmm.
But to be fair, she also got fed to the
wolves things. She was prude and wasn't caring for her
lastman too, So it was just a whole it was
every exactly. That's a whole different story. We know this, yes,

(19:47):
and I you know, I wanted to say, like Samantha
and I we bonded over trauma experiences and that was
what we started our time on this show with. And
I know we're going to revisit it coming up because
we're kind of reaching an anniversary of sorts. But it
just to say, like, you know, trauma is always continuously processing,

(20:10):
and it's I do feel like I've made a lot
of strides and I've made a lot of progress, but
you know, you have your bad days and there's still
things that you're working through, like still realizations like oh
why am I shaving? And then right, and I don't
want to stop shaving. This is what I hate. Right,
There's that whole level too, like but if I do this,

(20:31):
I'm giving into this. But I am I giving into this.
If I don't do this, I don't understand. But on
top of all of that, I don't want it to
be said that for you to even get to this
point of rehashing that is a huge leap of progress
and being able to face that, because that in itself
takes a lot just to face it. Of course, and

(20:52):
being vulnerable for our listeners and for me. You know,
again it is a privilege for us. But I also
know you're deep in therapy and I'm very proud of
that as well as so the audience knows that as
she is bringing these instances up, she's not doing it
in an unhealthy manner. That you have been approaching this
in a way of trying to heal, and unfortunately, to
heal that means to rip open some old wounds, which

(21:15):
is heavy. Yes, but thank you and thank you for
for listening. I knew, like I told us Bath before
we started this, when I was like, I don't know
how this is going to go, but it's gonna be wrong,
and it was. But we've done it. We've made it
to the end, and I you know, a happy later
day in the United States and really, really really uh,

(21:40):
I really do appreciate having the space to to talk
about these things and and all of you listeners are
always so amazing, and Samantha, You're always so amazing. So
thank you. Thank you, um for being there for me
and for being open with me as well. And as always, listeners,
you can email us as stephinitely your mom stuff at

(22:01):
iHeart media dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at moms to podcast or on Instagram. That Stuff We
Never told You, Thanks as always to our super producer Christina.
Thank you Christina, and thanks to you for listening. Stuff
I Never told You. It's a protection about I Heart Radio.
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