August 23, 2021 • 15 mins
Our ideas of what marriage can look like are shifting. Anney and Samantha look into the history and growing modern popularity of platonic marriages.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff.
I've never told your production of iHeart Radio. Any I
have a question. Okay, when you were a kid, did
you fantasize or even plan your wedding? Yes, yeah, I
(00:28):
knew it. Tell me that I did. I did. Oh,
I had a whole journal, and I drew the dress
that I wanted, and I had like, not the specific venue,
but the kind of location in mind. But I wanted
it to look like I had like songs that I
wanted played and dances I wanted. Um, I had kind
(00:51):
of this vague vision of how I wanted the guy
to look, and you know, I would I would dream
about it. I would dream that I was so in
love and so happy. I would run down the aisle
and I cry and cry and cry of happiness. Just beautiful.
I really wanted a short dress, not like short short,
but like me length, because I really wanted to dance.
I didn't want to be held back by any long dresses.
(01:13):
That kind of wanted like colorful flower little accompaniments. So yes,
But but yeah, I mean you're not the only one. Obviously,
I did not necessarily plan my wedding. Um, but I
was in a lot of them, so I learned from
(01:33):
them what I didn't want, and by the time that
I was in high school, I was like, if I
do get married, it will not be a large wedding.
I remember to the point that my mom was like,
just invite us as in the parents, and I was like, okay,
Like that was so good of it. But because I
had been in so many weddings as a kid, I
was miserable. I was like, I'll never do it again,
which is hilarious because I'm like, wow, I was jaded
(01:56):
at twelve. Cool, right, Well, we are talking about marriages
and weddings today and we're talking about a different type
of relationship all around, which is platonic marriages. Anything you
know much about platonic marriages before we started talking about this, No,
not at all. Actually, um, I don't think I even
(02:16):
heard that term. I've heard political marriages, which I think
is something similar. And then a while back past host
did an episode on Boston marriages, so I knew a
little bit about that, but no, not really, not about
platonic marriages. Well so, and I've heard of things such
as like the political as well as a marriage of convenience,
(02:37):
arranged marriages, and these are all different types. But what
we're talking about when we're talking about platonic marriage, well,
according to bride dot com, is actually a legal union
based on spiritual connection or practical love rather than a
sexual or romantic love. And another site actually described it
as a wedding without the sexual relationship. And according to
(02:58):
relationship experts Amy Linting him and Rachel Sussman, who are
both some kind of counselors or some type of professionals
in that level state quote, platonic marriages are when people
that are friends who are not sexually involved, decide to
make a commitment in a marriage for life with each other.
And I thought that was interesting because there's been a
few articles that have come out talking about this kind
(03:22):
of arrangement. And Annie, I know we've talked about this
a lot, just how the pandemic and the quarantine has
affected women altogether. But according to one research from science
direct dot com, women were more likely to experience increased
feelings of loneliness than men. And of course people who
have low self esteem also are gonna fill these types
(03:44):
of feelings, I guess. And as one couple reported that
having the connection in the commitment without the complexities of
sex and romance lingering over them. They felt connected and
able to more openly communicate and felt fulfilled. So there's
this whole conversation that maybe we're talking about this more
because of that connection, and it's not new. Actually I
(04:07):
thought it was. I was like, oh, but it's just
more that people are coming out and talking about it.
And I think that's the whole thing about us talking
about sexuality a little more and about relationships and about
being a little more open to understanding. There's some fluidity
to it all, which is nice, but there aren't just
open about it. They're actually encouraging for a lot more
(04:30):
people to come and kind of consider this type of
lifestyle and they could be looking into something that's a
committed relationship again without the backlash of the sex and
the toxicity that a heteronormative relationship may bring. And I
thought it was really interesting because you and I've talked
about this before, how we want to do a commune right, Yes,
(04:51):
And the whole idea is like, because we want companionship,
but it's not necessarily that we want marriage with our
romantic partner. And I was like, huh, yeah, this could
be a good solution. Again, it's not new, as in fact,
it's been around possibly from the fifteenth century and even
further beyond. But at that point it was referenced as
(05:13):
a more platonicus, meaning again platonic love and how it
kind of elevates beyond the realm of just the physical
and it goes into the spiritual. And I was like, oh,
that's nice. And even to the point that the Catholic
Church approved of this type of union, uh, and it
was called something like justified union. So I'm like, oh,
(05:35):
which we do know people are really really really scared
of sex, so that could be a whole different connotations.
But for people like yourself, when we talk about the
fact that you are a sexual and it's not so
much that you're not sexual being, but you just don't
want to have that type of relationship with someone at
(05:56):
this point in time. And for me, who doesn't not
necessarily associate long term commitment with sex either, so that
that kind of blows my mind. But I am really really,
really really great at having friendships. You are, you know
what I mean? Though, that's kind of that whole level
of like huh um. And of course there's no such
(06:19):
thing as a perfect relationship again, because I've lost friends
and we've had friendships die because we weren't able to communicate.
We just got angry with each other and just left
it at that, and it just didn't feel like it
was worth fighting for, which is the whole process of
any relationship. But being open and having that bond in
(06:41):
this friendship when you are really really tied together, maybe
you can make for a successful partnership. Um. And I
didn't want to talk about some of the benefits in
this and about our own experiences because I'm not necessarily
thought about doing a platonic marriage because anything legal, yeah,
like that seems really like yeah, but here's some of
(07:16):
the benefits one not wanting a romantic relationship, but do
want stability with a partner they trust and more flexibility
in their lives. And I think I could see that
in that I live pretty far away from my parents. Mhm.
So when you have to have that emergency contact, who
do you use? Right, you have to decide like, Okay,
(07:39):
maybe this is kind of that stability that you want
and having someone being able to be there to help
execute and who understand what you want. Yes, And then
There's another thing is they want to raise children and
co parent with a person, but not necessarily a romantic partner.
And of course there's this back and forth in general
(07:59):
about out the whole being a single parent and the
benefits and the backlash of that. So having someone to help,
especially when you're living by yourself and or living in
an area that again you don't have that support system
such as your family. Right. Another one, and I think
it's a really good one because you talk about this
a lot, taking care of each other in our old age. Right.
(08:25):
And then the third I've thought about a lot because
it's taken me thirty you know, probably thirty seven years
before I could live by myself financially splitting expenses and
with the fact that our income has not increased as
in like the minimal wage in the past fifteen years. Yeah,
it's almost impossible when the cost of living is so
(08:49):
high to live by yourself. Yeah. I love that we're
having these conversations because for so long, I feel like,
especially for me that kind of came from a sheltered town,
I only saw one type of relationship and this is
the one, and it's your nuclear family, heteronormative relationship. But
(09:11):
now I'm seeing a bunch of people. And of course
now I live in a liberal city and I have
pretty liberal friends. But I'm hearing conversations about like polyamorous
relationships or things like this, like what I would in
heavy quotes call is like traditionally non traditional relationships, which
is nice because for most of my life I didn't
know these were options. I didn't know that these were things.
(09:33):
So it's like making me question, you know, do I
want that? Maybe I don't, but maybe I do, And
now I'm at least thinking about it, which is nice.
And I've had a lot of interesting thoughts about different
types of relationships I might be okay with lately, which
I think I'm going to talk about in an upcoming
happier or But but we've had discussions like this among
my friend group with the commune of like, yeah, it
(09:54):
would be nice to have kind of a relationship where
you're living. You're living with someone, but you have your
own separate space. Also important to me, but you have
that camaraderie and companionship and that, yes I'm getting older,
in case something happens, like somebody will be there. And then,
as I said in my last relationship, I was pretty
(10:14):
happy and that's kind of what we had, right, But
of course he wasn't happy, so that's totally cool, but
I was. And so I was like, Okay, this is
kind of what I'm looking for, which is a companion
that I can have fun with and do stuff with,
but there's no like pressure of sexual or romantic side
of it. And I have had friends talk to me
(10:36):
about like political marriages in particular, and like saying, oh,
my therapist brought up political marriages as an option. I'm like, wow, right,
just yeah, and yeah, you're not the only one. They
talk about the fact that there are a lot of
couples who come in as assist head a normative couple
because of the romantic involvement, but then it grows into
(10:58):
this platonic level, and of course, yes it can be unhealthy,
but it can also be healthy. And we also see
it when we have things like when one part of
the couple realizing that they are not necessarily just straight
or you know, heterosexual, but they are you know, one
of the l g B d Q and and really
lost themselves and trying to be what they quote unquote
(11:21):
really was normal, and then trying to figure that out,
but at the same time, do caring about their partner
and their partner caring about them still even though the
relationship has changed, and them remaining in it because it's
still it's okay and it's healthy with it healthy for them.
And I was seeing couples who do this with children,
of course, doing this unhealthily, being like they feel like
(11:42):
they've forced into it. Not a great idea, but being
into a place where like this actually can work and
it's healthy. Why not, And that there's a lot of
conversation about these benefits being pretty great, and the fact
that because it is newer, there's not any standard, so
you can talk about it as you go and you
could fix it as you go. The one couple that
(12:05):
has been written up a lot because they got married
this year, they talk about the fact that they do
share beds, but there's no sexual attention. They might cuddle,
but that's just a friendship that level thing. And they
have a foster kid and and they care for them
and they share their responsibilities, and yeah, they might go
on dates, but it's okay because again they know exactly
(12:26):
what that is and and that what they are expecting
from each other. And who they come home to and
who's allowed who's not allowed without the awkwardness. So I'm like,
oh why not, And yeah, especially when we have the pandemic,
I will say, like my partner now are romantic and
we are really good together in that, but part of
(12:47):
that is that companionship of being able to eat together,
being able to share a show together, of being able
to sit next to each other while no one else
you know is around, and then being selective who we are,
but not being completely lonely the entire time. So it
was it was the sub balance and seeing during the pandemic,
You're like, yeah, this, this could be a lot of benefits.
(13:09):
Not to say that you can't have that with your
roommate and you don't have to to be that far along.
Of course, this is the level of a commitment that
is a whole different conversation now that a great relationships
with the past roommates mm hmm, But of course this
is not that same level. In this kind of like, huh,
why not if you feel like that's how you are
(13:30):
and the relationship goes beyond just friendship and that when
you say best friends forever, this is a whole new
level yeah, I think. I mean because there's a commitment
involved in here, right, But there's plenty of I have
many best friends, and I feel like, you know, I
am committed to you, like whether or not we're going
(13:50):
to take that next step, right, but it is like
I hope we will be best friends for life. And
so it's kind of like, you know, the commitment's already there,
and it's just if you want to make it legal,
make it legal, make it legal. But yeah, you can
definitely rewrite since it's it is newer in our more
common like understanding of it. That is nice that you
(14:13):
kind of have to have those negotiations or discussions around
it and you can make it or build it in
a way that works for the people in the relationship, right,
And I love it. Yes, big fans, well listeners. If
anybody is in a platonic relationship, please let us and know.
You can email us at stuff Damil stuff at i
(14:34):
heeart media dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at Momsta podcast or on Instagram and stuff I've never
told you. Thanks, it's always to a super producer Christina,
who is amazing as well. Yes, and thanks to you
for listening. Stuff I never told you protection of iHeart Radio.
For more, podcast on iHeart Radio is the heart radio app,
Apple podcast all ready listen to your favorite shows. Oh,
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff.
I've never told your production of iHeart Radio. Any I
have a question. Okay, when you were a kid, did
you fantasize or even plan your wedding? Yes, yeah, I
(00:28):
knew it. Tell me that I did. I did. Oh,
I had a whole journal, and I drew the dress
that I wanted, and I had like, not the specific venue,
but the kind of location in mind. But I wanted
it to look like I had like songs that I
wanted played and dances I wanted. Um, I had kind
(00:51):
of this vague vision of how I wanted the guy
to look, and you know, I would I would dream
about it. I would dream that I was so in
love and so happy. I would run down the aisle
and I cry and cry and cry of happiness. Just beautiful.
I really wanted a short dress, not like short short,
but like me length, because I really wanted to dance.
I didn't want to be held back by any long dresses.
(01:13):
That kind of wanted like colorful flower little accompaniments. So yes,
But but yeah, I mean you're not the only one. Obviously,
I did not necessarily plan my wedding. Um, but I
was in a lot of them, so I learned from
(01:33):
them what I didn't want, and by the time that
I was in high school, I was like, if I
do get married, it will not be a large wedding.
I remember to the point that my mom was like,
just invite us as in the parents, and I was like, okay,
Like that was so good of it. But because I
had been in so many weddings as a kid, I
was miserable. I was like, I'll never do it again,
which is hilarious because I'm like, wow, I was jaded
(01:56):
at twelve. Cool, right, Well, we are talking about marriages
and weddings today and we're talking about a different type
of relationship all around, which is platonic marriages. Anything you
know much about platonic marriages before we started talking about this, No,
not at all. Actually, um, I don't think I even
(02:16):
heard that term. I've heard political marriages, which I think
is something similar. And then a while back past host
did an episode on Boston marriages, so I knew a
little bit about that, but no, not really, not about
platonic marriages. Well so, and I've heard of things such
as like the political as well as a marriage of convenience,
(02:37):
arranged marriages, and these are all different types. But what
we're talking about when we're talking about platonic marriage, well,
according to bride dot com, is actually a legal union
based on spiritual connection or practical love rather than a
sexual or romantic love. And another site actually described it
as a wedding without the sexual relationship. And according to
(02:58):
relationship experts Amy Linting him and Rachel Sussman, who are
both some kind of counselors or some type of professionals
in that level state quote, platonic marriages are when people
that are friends who are not sexually involved, decide to
make a commitment in a marriage for life with each other.
And I thought that was interesting because there's been a
few articles that have come out talking about this kind
(03:22):
of arrangement. And Annie, I know we've talked about this
a lot, just how the pandemic and the quarantine has
affected women altogether. But according to one research from science
direct dot com, women were more likely to experience increased
feelings of loneliness than men. And of course people who
have low self esteem also are gonna fill these types
(03:44):
of feelings, I guess. And as one couple reported that
having the connection in the commitment without the complexities of
sex and romance lingering over them. They felt connected and
able to more openly communicate and felt fulfilled. So there's
this whole conversation that maybe we're talking about this more
because of that connection, and it's not new. Actually I
(04:07):
thought it was. I was like, oh, but it's just
more that people are coming out and talking about it.
And I think that's the whole thing about us talking
about sexuality a little more and about relationships and about
being a little more open to understanding. There's some fluidity
to it all, which is nice, but there aren't just
open about it. They're actually encouraging for a lot more
(04:30):
people to come and kind of consider this type of
lifestyle and they could be looking into something that's a
committed relationship again without the backlash of the sex and
the toxicity that a heteronormative relationship may bring. And I
thought it was really interesting because you and I've talked
about this before, how we want to do a commune right, Yes,
(04:51):
And the whole idea is like, because we want companionship,
but it's not necessarily that we want marriage with our
romantic partner. And I was like, huh, yeah, this could
be a good solution. Again, it's not new, as in fact,
it's been around possibly from the fifteenth century and even
further beyond. But at that point it was referenced as
(05:13):
a more platonicus, meaning again platonic love and how it
kind of elevates beyond the realm of just the physical
and it goes into the spiritual. And I was like, oh,
that's nice. And even to the point that the Catholic
Church approved of this type of union, uh, and it
was called something like justified union. So I'm like, oh,
(05:35):
which we do know people are really really really scared
of sex, so that could be a whole different connotations.
But for people like yourself, when we talk about the
fact that you are a sexual and it's not so
much that you're not sexual being, but you just don't
want to have that type of relationship with someone at
(05:56):
this point in time. And for me, who doesn't not
necessarily associate long term commitment with sex either, so that
that kind of blows my mind. But I am really really,
really really great at having friendships. You are, you know
what I mean? Though, that's kind of that whole level
of like huh um. And of course there's no such
(06:19):
thing as a perfect relationship again, because I've lost friends
and we've had friendships die because we weren't able to communicate.
We just got angry with each other and just left
it at that, and it just didn't feel like it
was worth fighting for, which is the whole process of
any relationship. But being open and having that bond in
(06:41):
this friendship when you are really really tied together, maybe
you can make for a successful partnership. Um. And I
didn't want to talk about some of the benefits in
this and about our own experiences because I'm not necessarily
thought about doing a platonic marriage because anything legal, yeah,
like that seems really like yeah, but here's some of
(07:16):
the benefits one not wanting a romantic relationship, but do
want stability with a partner they trust and more flexibility
in their lives. And I think I could see that
in that I live pretty far away from my parents. Mhm.
So when you have to have that emergency contact, who
do you use? Right, you have to decide like, Okay,
(07:39):
maybe this is kind of that stability that you want
and having someone being able to be there to help
execute and who understand what you want. Yes, And then
There's another thing is they want to raise children and
co parent with a person, but not necessarily a romantic partner.
And of course there's this back and forth in general
(07:59):
about out the whole being a single parent and the
benefits and the backlash of that. So having someone to help,
especially when you're living by yourself and or living in
an area that again you don't have that support system
such as your family. Right. Another one, and I think
it's a really good one because you talk about this
a lot, taking care of each other in our old age. Right.
(08:25):
And then the third I've thought about a lot because
it's taken me thirty you know, probably thirty seven years
before I could live by myself financially splitting expenses and
with the fact that our income has not increased as
in like the minimal wage in the past fifteen years. Yeah,
it's almost impossible when the cost of living is so
(08:49):
high to live by yourself. Yeah. I love that we're
having these conversations because for so long, I feel like,
especially for me that kind of came from a sheltered town,
I only saw one type of relationship and this is
the one, and it's your nuclear family, heteronormative relationship. But
(09:11):
now I'm seeing a bunch of people. And of course
now I live in a liberal city and I have
pretty liberal friends. But I'm hearing conversations about like polyamorous
relationships or things like this, like what I would in
heavy quotes call is like traditionally non traditional relationships, which
is nice because for most of my life I didn't
know these were options. I didn't know that these were things.
(09:33):
So it's like making me question, you know, do I
want that? Maybe I don't, but maybe I do, And
now I'm at least thinking about it, which is nice.
And I've had a lot of interesting thoughts about different
types of relationships I might be okay with lately, which
I think I'm going to talk about in an upcoming
happier or But but we've had discussions like this among
my friend group with the commune of like, yeah, it
(09:54):
would be nice to have kind of a relationship where
you're living. You're living with someone, but you have your
own separate space. Also important to me, but you have
that camaraderie and companionship and that, yes I'm getting older,
in case something happens, like somebody will be there. And then,
as I said in my last relationship, I was pretty
(10:14):
happy and that's kind of what we had, right, But
of course he wasn't happy, so that's totally cool, but
I was. And so I was like, Okay, this is
kind of what I'm looking for, which is a companion
that I can have fun with and do stuff with,
but there's no like pressure of sexual or romantic side
of it. And I have had friends talk to me
(10:36):
about like political marriages in particular, and like saying, oh,
my therapist brought up political marriages as an option. I'm like, wow, right,
just yeah, and yeah, you're not the only one. They
talk about the fact that there are a lot of
couples who come in as assist head a normative couple
because of the romantic involvement, but then it grows into
(10:58):
this platonic level, and of course, yes it can be unhealthy,
but it can also be healthy. And we also see
it when we have things like when one part of
the couple realizing that they are not necessarily just straight
or you know, heterosexual, but they are you know, one
of the l g B d Q and and really
lost themselves and trying to be what they quote unquote
(11:21):
really was normal, and then trying to figure that out,
but at the same time, do caring about their partner
and their partner caring about them still even though the
relationship has changed, and them remaining in it because it's
still it's okay and it's healthy with it healthy for them.
And I was seeing couples who do this with children,
of course, doing this unhealthily, being like they feel like
(11:42):
they've forced into it. Not a great idea, but being
into a place where like this actually can work and
it's healthy. Why not, And that there's a lot of
conversation about these benefits being pretty great, and the fact
that because it is newer, there's not any standard, so
you can talk about it as you go and you
could fix it as you go. The one couple that
(12:05):
has been written up a lot because they got married
this year, they talk about the fact that they do
share beds, but there's no sexual attention. They might cuddle,
but that's just a friendship that level thing. And they
have a foster kid and and they care for them
and they share their responsibilities, and yeah, they might go
on dates, but it's okay because again they know exactly
(12:26):
what that is and and that what they are expecting
from each other. And who they come home to and
who's allowed who's not allowed without the awkwardness. So I'm like,
oh why not, And yeah, especially when we have the pandemic,
I will say, like my partner now are romantic and
we are really good together in that, but part of
(12:47):
that is that companionship of being able to eat together,
being able to share a show together, of being able
to sit next to each other while no one else
you know is around, and then being selective who we are,
but not being completely lonely the entire time. So it
was it was the sub balance and seeing during the pandemic,
You're like, yeah, this, this could be a lot of benefits.
(13:09):
Not to say that you can't have that with your
roommate and you don't have to to be that far along.
Of course, this is the level of a commitment that
is a whole different conversation now that a great relationships
with the past roommates mm hmm, But of course this
is not that same level. In this kind of like, huh,
why not if you feel like that's how you are
(13:30):
and the relationship goes beyond just friendship and that when
you say best friends forever, this is a whole new
level yeah, I think. I mean because there's a commitment
involved in here, right, But there's plenty of I have
many best friends, and I feel like, you know, I
am committed to you, like whether or not we're going
(13:50):
to take that next step, right, but it is like
I hope we will be best friends for life. And
so it's kind of like, you know, the commitment's already there,
and it's just if you want to make it legal,
make it legal, make it legal. But yeah, you can
definitely rewrite since it's it is newer in our more
common like understanding of it. That is nice that you
(14:13):
kind of have to have those negotiations or discussions around
it and you can make it or build it in
a way that works for the people in the relationship, right,
And I love it. Yes, big fans, well listeners. If
anybody is in a platonic relationship, please let us and know.
You can email us at stuff Damil stuff at i
(14:34):
heeart media dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at Momsta podcast or on Instagram and stuff I've never
told you. Thanks, it's always to a super producer Christina,
who is amazing as well. Yes, and thanks to you
for listening. Stuff I never told you protection of iHeart Radio.
For more, podcast on iHeart Radio is the heart radio app,
Apple podcast all ready listen to your favorite shows. Oh,
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