Monday Mini: Rejection Tactics

Or how to reject a guy in 10 ways. Anney and Samantha talk about different methods of letting men down easy, and what they say about our culture.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff.
I never told your production of I Heeart Radio Today's
that Monday Mini is brought to you by a listener.
We actually read her email on our video game Me

(00:28):
Too in the video game Industry episode Um not just
a video game, but we did it focus of particular
chunk of it to Too in the video Game Industry,
and she discussed how she started dating someone else for
a long time I might add to avoid dating someone else.
So the whole reason she was dating this guy was
not to date another guy, which essentially to ward off

(00:52):
the harassment she was getting from a married man who
was her boss. And and that made us think. We
started thinking about how many times I was have we
made up things and how many conversations have I had
with people about no, you may not get denied, and
this whole like nos a, yes, it's bush. It's literally
us saying we are scared of the fallout if we

(01:15):
reject you. And I think that was part of the things,
like we need to talk about that. What are some
of the things that we have done and we have
seen done in order to let a guy down easily
so we're not yelled at, harassed, stocked, or sometimes even murdered. Yeah. Yeah,
it's one of those things where we touched on it

(01:36):
very briefly in that episode where at least for me,
I had a moment of oh wow, I can't believe
how many things I do that indicate that I'm not
entirely safe, and we just sort of do them. And
there was actually a c I think it got cut
from Annie in the City, the movie that is SIMI
about my life, um, where the director and I were

(01:59):
having conversation and he was like, just, what is something
you would talk about with a friend, uh, who is
a woman that you've just met that you know, ladies
were bond over. And I was like, well, you know, uh,
all these tactics that we do when it comes to
rejecting dudes. And he was shocked and he was like what,

(02:22):
And I'm like, oh yeah. We had a whole conversation
about it, and a lot of them were going to
talk about in here. But he was very, very surprised.
He was like, so probably all women would get this,
and I was like, oh yeah, yeah, absolutely too real
and we all just kind of stay each other like
giving each other nods. I mean it goes as far

(02:42):
as women pretending to be friends with strangers in order
to get rid of someone who was talking them, literally
walking and stalking them. And I was saying many of
those interactions because it happens more often than you think.
Oh sure, um, I would love from anybody in Australia, right,
and if this is actually true, because I have a
friend when I was in Australia and he told me

(03:03):
there's this thing called the AUSSI wink, and you can
wink at somebody in a particular way and they're supposed
to come and pretend that they know you, like, come
over and talk to you, and so you can get
out of a situation. And it's frequently, or at least
that what he explained it to me, it's frequently used
by women to kind of signal this guy is bothering me,

(03:23):
but he could have been pulling my legs. So I
would love to know if that's actually true. I was
gonna say, if he knows about it, doesn't that they
take away from it actually being able to work. That's
why I asked him. I'm like, well, if everybody knows
about this thing that if I do, it, wouldn't it
wouldn't the person I'm trying to get away from. No,
unless I try to do he doesn't see it. Well,
I know there's been bars that those specific thing like

(03:45):
has specific orders, and I think it's in a bathroom.
I've seen that where they're like order this if you
are in trouble. Yeah, yeah, there's definitely And I know
there's like one place where they can like what is
it asked for, Andrea or some Yeah, there's there's things
in place. Um. One of the big ones that comes

(04:06):
to me right off the top of my head is
you say you have a boyfriend or a husband, you
have someone else. So a guy asked you out and
you say, oh, I already have a boyfriend, which is
sad because when you think about it, what you're really
saying is almost like I belong to someone else. And
the reason I think of it that way is because
I've gotten especially more lately. Um. Either the response from

(04:31):
this guy being he shouldn't have let you out alone,
or show me a picture, show me proof. And then
I even had a picture one time. It wasn't a
fake board, it was a real boyfriend. I had a
picture showed the guy and he was like, well, I'm
better looking than him. Okay, I know, I know that

(04:52):
that tells you so much about who that person is. Yeah,
I've actually add that too, And I would say this,
and I'd be like, I have a boyfriend, and they'll
be like, oh, you, only you won't. He won't let
you have other friends, he wont let you talk to
other guys. And I'm like, I don't know what's happening.
And by the way, a majority of these situations, I
think he was a maintenance man that worked at my
apartment complex, so automatically he has access to everything I

(05:13):
have and he knows who I am. So me putting
on this like line kind of terrified and my only
thought is I don't want to say I'm not interested
in you, because what if he does something that I
know There was a report at one point that a
woman did get attacked because she rejected a man and
he entered her barbet mm hmm, you know, and stuff

(05:34):
like that. Like we make up these lines, not only
because for me it's not I have ownership, but it
was like I have protection, yeah, yeah, which is very sad.
And I actually wore a wedding ring or an engagement
ring when I would do my job because I would
have to go into homes and do investigations and such,
and I purposely would wear wedding rings and engagement rings

(05:56):
just to try to see that would war them off. Now,
of course I didn't always work, but that was definitely
at tactic that I would use as well. Yeah, and
I know, like I've never done that, but I have
friends that did, and I like briefly researched it. I
can't remember the statistic, but it was so interesting. It
was like married women are more attracted to men with wadings. Anyway,

(06:19):
I don't remember, but there was a fascinating statistics, So
go look at up if you're interested. I know, there's
that debate of if you're with someone, that means that
you are actually past the minia tests that you can
commit and be with someone. Now, that wouldn't be the
case that they were having an affair, I guess, um,
But that's kind of that whole conversation. It's kind of
like when you see women talking about men with children

(06:40):
and they're actually good fathers. How attractive they are? Sure?
Kind of like that, Yeah, and sort of related, I
guess is uh the um, I'm a lesbian when a
guy asked you out saying that you're a lesbian, which
is problematic in a lot of ways. Um, right, But

(07:01):
the response, I really only tried this a couple of
times when I was in college, and I guess I
was bisexual, But that wouldn't have helped. Um was prove it.
I would get prove it a lot. Kiss her like point,
they pointed, somebody like kiss her um or the best sleaziest. Well,

(07:22):
you haven't met me yet. Oh oh yeah, I've definitely
seen the I can turn you. Yeah, very offensive, gross response.
Yeah I haven't. I've never used that tactic because I
don't identify as a lesbian or bisexual. So I'm like, uh,
but I've definitely done the uh I'm with so and so,

(07:44):
whether it's a friend of mine and maybe I mean literally,
I'm in the same space as you should leave me alone.
But yeah, no, that's awful. I've never that would make
me want to punch someone. Just punch someone. Yeah, it's gross.
And then, at least in one instance, this person, this

(08:04):
guy followed me around the rest of the night and like,
you know, not talking to me, but kind of observing
as though he was trying to like collect proof that
I was not I was lying, or he was very
gross about it. He was like, oh, I'd love to
see two women kiss, you know. Oh yeah. Yeah. I

(08:26):
definitely had moments when I would reject someone and because
we were still in that same place, whether it's a bar,
whether or whatever, and he would be watching me that
I would be like, I gotta we gotta go, I
gotta go, we gotta go. But it was just too much,
even though he may not have been following me, but
he kept watching to see my interactions or do you
see where I was, and then coming popping up and
I'm like, uh, we gotta go. Yeah. Well, then there's

(08:49):
that whole thing of like whenn't you reject somebody and
it becomes like a negotiation where they're like, okay, well,
I you know it. We can just be friends. I
can take you home, um or and you're like, no,
that's okay, and then you become like a withholding bitch

(09:10):
because you're too good for me. You won't even we
can't even be friends, right, which has been said many
a times, many a times, um And but yeah, it's
definitely that same level when we see as as our
listener wrote to us about how she actually dated someone
and it was a toxic relationship, but it was for
her a better situation than being harassed by a married

(09:33):
man and her boss. And I was just like, that's
where it comes to be so unfortunate. That not that
it's a waste, but you have to put yourself in
one bad situation to get away from another. And it
happens way more than we want to talk about. There
was a whole episode, um, and it's not the same thing,
but in Dirty Rock where a woman pretends to be
really really over the top silly and maybe you know,

(09:59):
girl Lee and then tucks up with like the least um,
the weakest one of the bunch because he squills at
the ends and get her or whatever. But like she
says that she slips with them for protection, And I
think that happens more often than we look at because
it's if in a world that's cold, the only way
you can be protected is if having a man on

(10:20):
your arms to show that you are worth to be protected. Yeah,
and sometimes I mean I've definitely been asked out while
I was with a boyfriend, Um, like standing next to me,
I think it was pretty clear we were together. That's

(10:41):
happened more than once to know. So when we were
at a karaoke night we were all together, it was
kind of one of those weird moments I had. I
was with my partner, he was there. I literally was
sitting in his lap because there was no other place
for us to sit, and this dude kept hitting on
me to the point that my partner looks at him,
looks at me, looks at him, he goes it kind

(11:01):
of waves yeah, and then don't even know what's happening
and continue to tell me how sexy I am because
of this and this, and I'm like, I don't know
what's happening. Yeah, but he continue and this was like
not too long ago. And then after we left, he
was like he just did not care I was there,
and it's like, yep, but that's the other part. That's

(11:25):
another thing that we've done. Like that was an actual
moment of like, no, really, this is I have a partner.
I'm not this time. I'm not making him up. He's
not in Canada, I promise. But we used the group tactic,
like I would not go out alone typically not because
I'm afraid to be alone, but because of things like this,
and if I'm going to a club, it's not gonna
be two or three of us, it's gonna be five

(11:45):
to ten of us. Because if a small group, it's
almost like we're pray you know that that big pounds
and sometimes we felt like we had to have one guy.
It might just be one guy, but that makes such
a big difference, and it's absurd that it us. But
it's a defensive tactic that we think about before going out,
and this sort that this has to be a measure

(12:06):
today and even more so today because there's just such
an almost like conspiracy theory that if you if you're
a girl like this, then you're a man hater and
therefore you should be disciplined and conquered and told you
are wrong right right, or you're just being cruel. Um. Yeah,

(12:27):
my friends and I when we would go out to
a usually clubs more so than bars, we would have
like a the listener wrote in about this to a
different listener, um kind of this fifteen minute where we
would check in if you were like dancing with somebody
or or somebody was talking to you, where we would
just go over and um. A lot of times, even

(12:49):
if you were like oh no, I'm good. We kind
of pull you away, like I gotta talk to just
to check away from that person. If they want to
go back, they can, but um, just having those players place. No, yeah,
we definitely would. We would go dancing, and it's been
a long time since I've gone to a disco tech Yes, um,
a club or any of that. We would actually have

(13:10):
plans because I don't know what it is about dance
floors that if a girl is dancing or however it
may be, that it's an invite for a guy to
grind up on you no matter what. And that has
happened to me way too many times where we will
actually do what turn to get you out of the situation.
So I will grab a girl's hands or they will
grab mine. We turned them to put them into the

(13:31):
middle of the group to get them away from the guys.
Like that's where we had to go. And when we
would go out with guys, I literally had my guy
friends block, body block them, body checked them to move
them out the way. But that's the level of having
to do so I was at it, not even at clubs.
I was at a show, an outdoor show, and they
were and I was sending to my next to my

(13:53):
two massive six ft four pound guy friends, and he
still came up on me to the point the dude
my friend and had to come in between us and
go man and pu pull me physically to him. But
that's the level of where you go. Yeah, I actually
you weren't here for this, Samantha. I think you had

(14:14):
just left. But at the last dragon Con, we were
at some dance thing and this guy just like would
not leave me alone, and like, I kept moving and
he would follow. And he was dressed as nandor from
what we do in the Shadows, which resually bumps me
out because now every time I see that, I think
of it. Um, Like my friends, I had like a

(14:35):
group of four or five friends and they were all
dancing around me, and he kept like pulling me out
of the center, and um, I would I was like
physically pushing him away, going back, and he would keep pulling,
And finally one of my friends like got into his
face and was pointing at him. It was like, you
know what, you're being creepy. I don't know how you

(14:55):
don't understand it, not like just went off, and my
other friend was like, let's just go That's why I
do love your friends. They you have like a different
level of handling. Like one person will confront one person
will just take away, and one person will just like
slither you into the darkness. I'm very glad, I'm very

(15:16):
glad for them. That was I'm so glad they were there.
She my friend who yelled him. She described him as
it looked like he was a hunter, Like he was
just he pinpointed you. He thought you had some weakness
that he could exploit and if he was coming for you.
And again, this is what we talked about when we
talk about grooming. I know this is a little more serious, no,
but they do. They you find the weakest, what they

(15:38):
feel is the weakest, or what could be exploited, in
order to use that as a higher ground or a
way of taking uh advantage of a situation. And that's
that same freaking tactic that we see as adults and
even strong women. That is so disarming to me that
I I kind of just sit there, like, what's what

(15:58):
just happened? Wait? Should I feel guilty about this? Should
I be the one that I should feel like this?
Did I just heard that guy's feelings? Oh? No, I
heard that guy's feelings. Oh yeah, yeah, that's another important
part of it too. Um is I talked about this
all the time, but that that if the fear of
rejecting someone outright, that either the situation will escalate, UM,

(16:23):
but at at the very least probably being called a
tease or UM being told like, well you sort of
owe me this rum entitled to this. Probably not outright,
but essentially that's what they're saying, and then feeling guilty
about that, like, oh did I was I sending signals?
But what did I do to attract this attention? Um?

(16:44):
With that guy at Dragon Con. I even specifically told
that guy, I'm not interested in anything other than being
here with my friends tonight, and he just so. It
makes me mad because sometimes I will outright object someone
and then I have to take other tactics, and then
they really mad and say like, well, if you just
told me that's what I did, and you didn't listen

(17:05):
to me, so I had to come up with something else. Um.
I remember one time. So there's this thing called the
rejection Hotline. I'm not sure if it's still a thing.
Oh yeah, yeah, UM, where it's a number that you
give out and they call it and it's like, so sorry,
but this person was not actually interested in you, you know,
And I I used it for a brief period of

(17:28):
time in college. I felt really bad about it, to
be honest. But one guy freaking recognizes the number really yes,
and that blew my mind. I was thinking, how many
women have given you this number that you recognize it
by well? And on top of that, yeah, I've had
guys would I give them the wrong number? Call it

(17:50):
in front of me? And what do I do? Now?
What do I do now? And I've been tricked into
thinking that they're like, here, I put your number hand,
I'm gonna give you the US or as as it
was like as an advice or something, or maybe we
talked about a book or something, and then he asked
me out, and I'm like, what just happened. I've also
had guys hit on me from work so I'm calling

(18:10):
for something or I met them, and then I get hey,
I met you through this. I'm like, whoa what? And
then we just saw the Twitter post of the woman
who was speeding and the cop who stalked her to
ask her on a day. I think he got fired
or at least discipline who knows, He's probably somewhere else,
But I mean, stuff like that is a continued tact
of like, wow, the audacity of doing this in this

(18:33):
intimidation level is so absurd. And again this is kind
of and we've been long winded. This is a whole
level of conversation, even though we're trying to make it
light of it, you know, or at least just making
a reality of what has happened, the fact that's put
women and then uh, gender nonconforming people at risk, because
there's this whole conversation of who was owed what? And again,

(18:55):
who have some repeatedly say it doesn't matter what signs
or signals, It doesn't matter. I may have felt like
I actually did like you, and then up into that point,
this doesn't feel good anymore, knows no, or if I'm
giving you signals that I'm walking away or making excuses
of not allowing this to happen, take that it's not
a challenge. Stop this whole eighties nineties mentality of chasing

(19:20):
women down and making her yours and conquering is bullshit.
And I'm getting very angry about this, as we can tell,
because it's too common and too much and it puts
so much emotional trauma on the people who as occurring
to that you have no idea the lasting impact that
has forever not only just takes away from who they
are as humans, takes away from their morality. It takes

(19:43):
from their self esteem. It takes from their whole perception
of being okay and being in the right to be
protected and having a self worth to be able to
know what they want. By the way women can know
what they want. You don't have to change their mind. Yeah,
and they can change their mind. And maybe if you

(20:03):
decided to be a great person, and this goes for
everyone in anyone right, that can happen, and a relationship
can grow. That's different. Friendships can grow to be something else.
But if it doesn't, it is not your right to
have something that they don't want you to have. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The amount of guilt I've felt over the years for

(20:26):
stuff like that, um, thinking that I did something wrong,
But I do love that you brought up. I've a
lot of times I'd be like, oh, I sent these
signals and I didn't mean to and not but now
I agree, like there are other signals I sent to
they were I'm not into it. Um, and they just

(20:46):
weren't picking up on those signals. Yeah if I even
was sending signals to the otherwise. But and just overall,
believe women if they say they're not interested, if they
say they only want something for two seconds and they
don't want it later, okay in the story next Yes, Yeah,
I'm done and I'm preaching to the choir again. I

(21:08):
know those but a man, you get me on this
sometimes I can't slow down. It gets me worked up
to um and I I've only just begun to realize
how much like like we talked about in that love episode,
where I feel like people just see me as a
sex object and how damaging that is, and how I
don't I can't trust anybody that that's not all they want. Um.

(21:30):
So stuff like this just reinforces that. UM and I
did want to end on something that I call the
Cold war, And a lot of people misunderstand this, but
basically what this is is this is a security measure
I've had to put in place where I won't text
if I suspect there's any interest. I will never ever
ever text you first. I will never like contact you first. Um.

(21:56):
And if it's a straight guy and he's married, same
rules apply. Just because I've gotten caught up in so
many situations I did not want to be caught up
in and I didn't realize what was happening. So it's
called the Cold War. It's like a stalemate. Oh, I'm
with you. I was with you in that level of
like if you're married, I think you're safe, as in,
we can have a friendship and I don't realize there's

(22:19):
anything beyond that. Yeah, and sometimes sometimes there isn't, but
it messes with the relationship for one reason or another.
Is a conversation that couple probably need to have as
to why that is. But it's happened enough that I've
had to put this rule in place. Uh, it's good rules,

(22:40):
unfortunately that we have to but yeah, pretty for all
these unfortunately we have to hear. Um. So we would
love to hear from listeners if you have any tactics
he used or anything that's worked particularly well. Um. I
know some listeners have written in about ways that they
feel like they have helped somebody realize what they're doing.

(23:03):
So if you want to send us those, you can
send them to our email at Stuff Media Mom Stuff
at iHeart media dot com. You can find us on
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and mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our super
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(23:25):
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