May 2, 2022 • 29 mins
As we continue our mini-series on women and happiness, we ask the question: who is happier? Are queer couples happier than straight couples?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Were welcome to stuff
I've never told your production of I Heart Radio. So
if you have been listening to our Monday minies, we
have been talking a lot about happiness and who are
(00:25):
the happiest, And of course we had some interesting articles
that we looked through and talked about and dissected. But
we had a listener asked us a genuinely great question
on Instagram. Hey, Arianna, I hope I said that right,
And they were asking about lesbian marriages and how they
affect women's happiness and just the whole marriage and happiness correlation,
(00:46):
which had us thinking, so, yeah, who are they happier?
Let's let's talk about it. So you know that we
read through that single and childless women were some of
the more happier group of people. But uh, yeah, let's
take a look at who are the happiest or at
least in couple them, so so that we can figure
this out. We can dissect this, right Annie. And of
(01:06):
course it's always with this, you know, we're speaking in
generalizations and from what we're able to find, right, So,
there's like no one answer, but there are some some
theories and some some data that's been collected, So of course, yes,
when we talk about data and statistics, just a reminder
they can be biased. Uh. It's according to where you
get that information and how you look things up, and
(01:28):
apparently according to Google is according to what you like
and what you've searched for, so it always leans that way.
So just to go ahead and put that caveat. But
we've found some articles that we didn't want to talk
about and kind of a look deeper into what they
are saying and think of why not let's talk about it.
So are lesbian couples happier? Well? In a pink news
(01:51):
dot co dot uk article, they found that the the
marital strain in psychological distress in same sex and different
sex couple studies shows quote UH found that same sex
spouses generally feel more satisfied in their marriages than hetero
sexual spouses do. Uh. As in fact, I think this
is a article just so y'all know, and it's always
good to know day because I feel like, especially in
(02:14):
the last three years, massive changes have happened, so it
can definitely change our perspective of what is happy, what
is it happy? As well as the fact when we
talk about in twenty six seeing versus versus twenty like
all those things, those years are very vastly different. So
ahead because that they are yea, that is true. So
(02:38):
to get these results, they they worked with seven hundred
fifties six US men and women and in their midlife
in seventy eight gay at lesbian and heterosexual marriages and
they catch these like daily diaries. Um. So it's self reporting,
which is always another thing to take note of. But yeah,
self reporting, um stress and how that was related to
(03:02):
their marriage their partner. Women in different sex marriages reported
the most stress. Uh and men in different sex marriages
and women in same sex marriages fell in the middle. Uh.
So they were about the same, reporting the same levels
of stress. Right. We did definitely talk a lot about
this when we talked about women in emotional labor during
the pandemic and stress um even the Great Resignation and
(03:26):
why women were quitting and what this looked like in
the heavy loads that they have had. And this article
kind of talks about that same narrative. It says in
the article most of them relate to traditional gender stereotyping,
including expectations that women should take on the majority of
the housework. So there's definitely that underlying uh stated gender
(03:48):
norm that is heavily laid and put a lot of
responsibility onto women in heterosexual relationships and marriages. So I
thought that was really interesting. I think I don't know
if yeah, you're thinking the same thing, but I could
see that being a proponent where it's what it's the
same gender and the expectations are kind of had to
put to the wayside and a lot more conversation has
(04:10):
had to have happened. Yeah, I think that's a good point.
I remember a few of you listeners different in about this,
and I think it's a good point of the outside
of our traditional heteronormative what we've been taught and what
we've seen is a very heavy quotes and normal relationship.
When you go outside of that, you have to talk
about things like you have to have the conversations that
(04:33):
I think in a lot of hetero couples are sort
of taken for granted. But outside of that, you have
to talk about it because you mant to make sure
you're on the same page, and often you haven't seen
examples perhaps of how this relationship will work. So I
think there's just a lot more conversations happening. I could
(04:53):
be wrong. This is again generalizations that we're speaking right right,
there is and I think it's interesting that again when
we break it down away from that, because even sitcoms
and even shows are starting to show that difference of like, oh,
we need to step away from this traditional household because
it's not funny anymore. It's now just uh trit and
(05:15):
overly used and it doesn't make sense and it should change.
So you see that changing in in media in itself,
and I feel like that reflects a lot upon what
is happening society obviously. And then when we talk about
same sex couples, the level of communications that have to happen.
And you know, I was thinking about this too. Queer
(05:37):
marriage wasn't legalized until not too long ago. We know this,
and it's still kind of in disarray as we talk
about what's happening under state legislations. But that stressor is
kind of for a minute, went away. That level of discrimination,
not real life discrimination, not necessarily they were discrimination, not
necessarily biases against uh A community or biases community or whatever,
(06:01):
but the federal level of stress of like, oh, we're
actually being recognized and being able to get married that
I had to alleviate some of that stressed us well,
so that that level happiness I feel I should have
that had a rise. I would think, again, this is
all conjecture. This is based on my own ideas of like, well,
at least one less thing was heavily laying on there, like, oh,
we can't be arrested for being in our marriage anymore. Wonderful.
(06:24):
That's a new stress like stress reliever, right right, And
I think it's worth noting here, Samantha and I keep
mentioning this mysterious project we're working on it. I think,
you know, someday we'll will be able to tell you
what it is. But for it, I was researching the
history of gay marriage, and I know that that's a
(06:44):
big conversation is um, you know, no, no group or
community is a monolith, and um, some people in the
gay community think like marriage is already part of the heteronormative,
like it's already bad or it's got all this stuff
that's built into it. Not everybody again, not everybody, but like,
I think that that's an interesting conversation that's happening as well,
(07:06):
because it just historically and traditionally has been kind of
a real gender disparity in favor of men in our laws.
So that's also a conversation that's happening. And we've talked
before about, um how in things like the b d
SIM community or the kink community, they similarly have to
(07:27):
have Like I guess, there's just no assumption that you
have to have these conversations write about about these things.
And I think that's so good. I think everybody should
be doing that, right. Yeah, And in that same article,
the same study talks about the level of miscommunication that
was happening and who was willing to talk and who
was willing to work things out. But a lot of
(07:48):
that in that this heteronormative idea, especially when it comes
to since uh, heterosexual relationships that uh, there's this mystery
and gameplay that's been kind of a part of it,
that you're supposed to allow the mel to be dominant
in a relationship and therefore you never question, you never
pushed back, and all of these narratives that were so
(08:09):
toxic and I'm using that word don't come at me,
but it was, and it is when you can't when
you feel like you can't communicate and have a open conversation.
And I will say that was one of my bigger
things growing up that I was willing to accept these norms.
But I made sure to put out if you're willing
to listen to me, even though I was under this
(08:30):
whole understanding with the religion and all of these things,
like okay, that's the way it works. But if he
is a truly good man and I'm yes, I'm putting
this all in like again head a normative ways of speaking,
then he's listening and we are compromising. I will allow
him to quote unquote speak for me, which makes me
a kind of nauxious is thinking about now if he
(08:50):
hears me and if we're talking about it behind closed doors,
if that's not happening, this is not a fulfilling relationship.
But I knew that as like I think, I said
this is a twelve year old to my father because
we were talking about what was happening in in our
church at that point. He asked me, which was weird
because he had more respect for me than I can't say.
It seemed like he had more respect for me than
(09:11):
my own mother. I was at times um, but him
coming to like, what do you think and I said,
these are these things, and he was like, Okay, do
you trust me to say that for him? Like, I
trust you because we're having a conversation and you said
you're listening. He's like, you're right, I will. It's like,
then that's a good relationship, you know, like coming down
to that wire of like if it truly worked out
that way, then these are the things that would happen
(09:32):
and come into play. Right. Yeah. I think that's a
really good point because if you can't trust somebody to
listen to you, then that you're already starting at an unequal,
right part, you already off to a bad foot in
this was right, right. So one study did show at
(10:02):
least the queer community in marriages maybe happier, that's what.
But we also found another article. And in this article
it talks about, um, what makes couples happier or the
happiest And it's from inc dot com. So they had
this whole list of these are the top characteristics that
(10:23):
make for a happy relationship, UM. And they had different studies.
So it's from inc dot com, I n C dot com, UM,
And we wanted to read the list. We're not gonna
get all We're not going to give create to all
of them. We're not gonna sit and discuss all of them.
But I found them interesting and I thought it would
be something to talk about because if you're trying to
seek that happy relationship, maybe these are some of the things. Uh.
(10:44):
Number one, don't fight over texts. So I thought that
was pretty funny because I'm like, oh, that's the only
way i have to communicate, though, I feel like that's
the best way I can get my point across without
breaking down and sounding ridiculous. It's interesting that you say that,
because I too, feel like I like to think things out.
(11:06):
I'll write things down because you know, you lose so
much over text. With that your like emojis or whatever,
the emotion is lost. So sometimes I'll write because I'm
bad about I'll react emotionally, I'll get defensive. I know this,
it's a problem, but if I'm unprepared, so I like
to be prepared, I write the thing down and then
(11:27):
we can talk about it. But I don't like going
into a fight unprepared, which I know sounds ridiculous because
a lot of times they just happen. But if there's
something that you know you need to talk about and
there's probably going to be a disagreement. I will write
it out, write down my thoughts, and then I'll go
in and we can. I mean, I feel it makes sense.
I mean, text can be bad, especially if you're just
(11:47):
exploding conversations back and forth. I'm sure. But like if
I'm having like a moment and I'm coming back and
this is how I need to tell you, it's gonna
be like fifteen texts that's wanted. Probably should be an email.
(12:07):
It makes the communicate better, but hey, who knows it
says take it to the place where you can actually
talk to their faces. But uh yeah, that's not always
great if you're a high emotion, high stress. This is
kind of I feel like that's similar to the narrative
like don't go to bed angry, Like that doesn't work.
I thought, if I need to calm down or I'm
going to say something I'm gonna regret, right, And a
(12:29):
lot of times, exhaustion it's not good when you're having
a fight and you're tired, it's going to be worse, right,
So not always, But okay, that's one number two, And
we've talked about this before. Don't have kids, that's what
it says. By the way, I'm not telling you to
do this. It just says don't have kids. We are
just the messenger. That makes sense to me too. I
(12:51):
think that it's lovely and the word this article you
just fulfilling. As having children can be stressful. I don't
like anybody who fight about that. I think that especially
in a relationship where there can be these kind of
inconsistencies and responsibilities and that money. That's what gets me
(13:14):
all the time, the cost of raising a child, and
especially in a lot of like the times we're living
through now and just so much stress on parents. Like
it makes sense to me. We're not saying yes again,
we're like not anti chual, but again we've talked about
the many times the different articles who were like these
(13:35):
may be the happiest people, and it may be because
it's less responsibility. I mean, let's just be real honest. Yeah,
there's a lot of responsibility and kudos to those parents. Kudos. Yes,
I'm not goodness, this one's interesting. Uh have friends who
stay married? Mm hmm. I feel like that's the same
(13:57):
kind of narrative of like your parents they stay Uh
just kind of like that level of like oh, it
can be done. Maybe. Yeah, I thought that too, And
then my parents had a real rough period and I
was like, I would just rather have been divorced, right,
but the definitely moment like that, like just YEA would
have been happier, we all would have been happier. Yeah,
(14:17):
And I just think, like, I totally get this point,
but I think it is very risky just to put
your kind of I don't know, faith or belief in
something into someone else. It makes sense to me that
you're like, because we've talked about that before. You know,
we're mostly friends with single people because for the same
parts in our lives. Um, But to be like, well,
they're still together, and so that means I can't be too.
I think that's a risk. Yes. And also even the perfect,
(14:41):
most perfect marriages, you don't realize there's a lot of
its happening. Yeah. Oh yeah, Um, here's another interesting one
fight at the beginning, then not a lot. I feel
like I've done this. I'm winning, right, I'm sure looking
at relationships in terms of winner losses definitely the way
(15:02):
I think this makes sense too, though, because you want
to kind of get those prickly fights out at the
beginning right, um, and hopefully that will give you indication
of whether or not you can work together. Do you
think And this is like it's strange to say, but
there's a skill in fighting without hurting somebody. Um, I
(15:23):
think you learned that when you get older. Because I
don't want people to like just go out and be
raging and hurting other people, right, but to have like
a good, healthy fight. Yeah, it's not a bad that.
That's what I think is interesting because that's what I
was talking about. How I know if you get me
what I'm angry, I'm gonna black out and say something
really mean because I am cruel, Like I can be cruel,
(15:44):
and I see your weaknesses and I'll come at it.
So I need a moment so I don't go below
the belt. Like I said this many times, I'm like,
if you don't leave me alone, I'm going to say
something that's gonna be so hurtful and I'm gonna feel
bad about it, and you're gonna feel bad about it
and we're never gonna be able to forget it, and
then it's gonna be even more. You need to let
me calm down so I can push that aside and
be the nicer me. But I also think about, like
(16:08):
how people talk about marriages, that the first year can
be the roughest, and if you can survive that, then
you're okay essentially working things out, readjusting essentially into what
is now a coupledom and being hopefully an equal partnership,
and how that can look at it the beginning fairly
rough and if you can get through those and you
(16:29):
can actually establish how to communicate, actually established boundaries, being
able to know, uh, this is the moment we need
time out that type of thing, then possibly, So that
makes sense to me because I've I've heard that all
my life the first year is the roughest, and I'm like,
that supposed to be the honeymoon period, but it's actually not.
And another one are I guess this is more of
a like a logistatistic as opposed to a strategy. So
(16:55):
it says are comprised of one firstborn child and one
lastborn child, which I feel like it's so specific. Yeah,
I want to know how they got these numbers. Uh,
that is so specific. I have nothing really to say
on that because I don't know if that could be true.
I guess I'm like out for the count you just
(17:18):
dRIT sexuality. Okay, because you're the middle child, you can't
have anybody, so that you're not supposed to be with anybody.
I will. I'll just always be kind of middling, never great.
I guess that is interesting. I have some theories why
(17:40):
that might be. It's almost like the opposites taking care
of each other. Yeah. Then, yeah, where does the middle
child club? Who companies are they? They feel like I
feel like, if that's this is what we're to say,
then the middle child can be with anyone because they
are the neutral negative. Yeah, yeah, there you go. There's
the universal lovely one. I'll take it. I'll tell you
(18:02):
it probably just means they're boring. And then this one.
And I feel like we talked about this at the
beginning with the gender roles. I know who does what
when it comes to housework, Um, I think that's very
good and talking about it, but that that would be
a little too organized for my scattered brains. I'm like,
sometimes I'm in the mood to do this, sometimes I'm not.
I am never in the mood to fold laundry. So
(18:24):
if my partner wants to do that, I will be
glad for them. To do that. I'll wash it, I'll
bring it back up. You folded and put it up.
I'm the same with dishes. I hate doing tshues. I
mean and we've talked about that before. Uh. And I
think we used to joke. Bridget used to joke with me,
never move in unless they have a dishwasher. Uh. Then
(18:44):
you can definitely put stressors on relationships these kind of tasks.
I've only had one again for the first time in
five years in the last three months. Love it, Love
it so much. Yeah, it's pretty good. It's pretty good.
Here's an interesting one. Are gay or straight and feminist?
Mm hmmm, yeah, I could see this. I can see
(19:08):
this too. Oh so the study they got this from
it is called feminism and romance go hand in hand
like that. This is a pamphlet to hand it out
to people. Yeah, yeah, I mean too. All right. Here's
(19:39):
another one that is very interesting, and we have talked
about this before. If hetero are comprised of a lovely
lady in and not as lovely man, which is sort
of what we were talking about with this kind of
traditional sitcom couple. How I just find this so interesting.
I was watching a movie the other day where this
came out. But they made it as if it was
like we should be the woman is so nice and
(20:03):
kind she can be with this not attractive man, right,
which I have a lot of I actually have a
happy hour. I want to talk about this. I have
a lot of thoughts about this, but like it's paint
it is it's a great trait for her, which it is.
You shouldn't really judge people by their looks. But at
the same time, it's like he's not like that was
the thing he said about her, And the thing he
(20:25):
said was she could see past all of my terrible
qualities and looks. That's always what they say. I just
heard that a lot. What movie was I watching? And
there they said that, you see. So the show that
I keep telling you about essentially is the Bell The
beauty is in love with rubble, still skin, the dude
that's super ugly, and like he keeps saying, because you
(20:45):
can see past the monster and it's the same level.
But I do want to read from this the article.
So the study came from the Journal of Personality and
Social Psychology, and it says, quote, when husband's view their
wives as the more attractive of the pair, not only
are they more satisfied in the relationship, but the wives
are too. The opposite was not true. When husbands thought
(21:08):
they were better looking, they weren't as happy. I still
like that has a lot to do with male fragility. Uh.
And we should come back to this and have this
conversation because this, and again it may be on the
side of social media that I'm on where we see
a lot of women just really taking on the part
of I don't need men, I am who I am
and whatever. Uh. And being a single is not a threat,
(21:31):
So I don't know why you pretend like it is.
But so many men are so angry when women say
they are attractive. They find that offensive, even though that's
what they want. But they they want to be the
ones to tell them that they want this whole like
song level of oh, she doesn't know she's beautiful type
of conversation was like, but they do, and they should,
(21:53):
and they should appreciate themselves as you appreciate them as well.
Why is that a bad thing? Technoledge that you might
be like you might look of that day like, I
love that confidence. And it took me forever to realize
that's not a fault to have friends who are like, oh,
all good today, And I was like, how dare you
like yourself? Yeah? Bragging? It was appreciating what yes, yeah.
(22:15):
I also think like this is a commentary or or
just a piece of our bigger conversation of women's value
still being like largely in their looks um and men's
value kind of being and more of the economic strength level,
so that it's more acceptable to have a more attractive
woman with a less attractive man than the other way around.
(22:37):
When I think it'd be like, oh, he must pity
her as opposed to a man, and with a more
attractive woman it's like good for him. He yeah, bagged
of a hot lady or whatever like have that sentiment
was today phrasing bagged and then you went all schooled
like a hot lady. I'm not good with the phrases today.
(23:01):
I've never been cool with either. I appreciated it, well,
thank you, thank you? Yeah. Another one, uh is our
best friends, which again that makes sense to me, right,
But you know I could never do this, So people
that I friended, I couldn't date. I never I still
(23:24):
to this day, if I am friends with you, you
go beyond that and you become a sibling, and I
don't know if it's not protective barrier and like I
need you to remain safe for me or what. But
that was never a thing if you're like maybe after
the fact, yes, after the fact that we started the relationship,
we grew and then you become a confident parts and
I trust absolutely, But I could never be with someone
(23:46):
who was a friend first. Yeah, I feel like it's
sort of always backfired for me where and this is
a lot more to do with like my own sexuality
and stuff. But I thought we were friends and then
he did not think that, um, and then moment. I
don't have those moments. I have a few, but I
(24:07):
think I shut it down so quickly that it becomes like, okay, yeah,
we NI could never I have this weird like, oh
you're my best friend. I would never touch you, like
immediately type of conversation And I don't mean to, but
it's just an automatic response for me. Uh. Speaking of
which they have a lot of friends in common is
(24:28):
what's also on the list, And I feel like that's
a good and bad thing because what happens if you
break up exactly you kind of know though, like where
it's gonna split. You've got it in your head, like
the divorce, and I think I made a list. It's like,
these are the people you will not see ever again.
If we break up, you just say you were aware.
(24:51):
I feel like I have, like a lot of times
I've had like my group of friends. They're a group
of friends and we all become friends, but then when
we break up, it's over. It's no longer. Yeah, sad,
but you know it happens. Spends money in similar ways.
I feel like that's a lot of practical applications, so
that although that could also be a detriment if one
(25:11):
person likes to spend a lot and the other person
it's like, yeah, me too, then you just both run
out of money. Yeah, there could be problems for sure,
But again I think there are a lot of a
lot of fights do you stem from money or financial issues?
So that also makes sense to me. That's always been
one of those things where I might maybe because I
remember coming in young seeing good relationships that we have
(25:32):
different finances we keep. I was like, I think that's
smart too, I was that was never a question. I
was like, no, this is like we can have one
account where we put all of our utilities and all
of that, but everything else. My paycheck comes to mind,
paycheck goes to yours, and then we put our little
bits here. I agree, I agree. Well, here's an interesting one.
(25:54):
Have sex at least once a week? Yeah, yeah, sure,
why not? This one came from two thousand four, So
I feel like it's a little dated, um, especially when
we talk about the queer world actually coming out and
having a conversation about what their sexuality means to them
or it doesn't, and we're acknowledging and recognizing the differences.
(26:15):
Maybe it's just my world because you're in my world,
but I feel like we've become a lot more open
and aware, um, and that sex shouldn't be the basis.
And then again, the pandemic has taught us quite a
bit about whether to do or we do without. Yeah,
the numbers have changed a lot during this pandemic, which
could be for stress reasons, could be for tons of stuff.
(26:36):
But right, that's an interesting see. Oh and I love
this last one because I feel like it should be
with every relationship and not just couples, but celebrates each
other's achievements and yes, if you're wanted to be jealous,
then that's a problem. Yeah, for sure. I definitely dated
the guy who never like every time I'd be like,
oh I gotta raise, would be like silence, And then
(26:58):
I think I might get job promotion. So he never
would acknowledge any of my things that I accomplished. That's
not cool. No, that's not cool. Remember it clearly many
years ago, obviously. Like I think about this with my
friends too, Like there are moments where I'm super jealous
of my other friends and I'm like, oh my god,
whatever whatnot, but also celebrating with them because you want
(27:19):
them to have the best life. Just because you don't
get that doesn't mean that they shouldn't either, Like it's
such a weird thing, but yeah, but jealousy does occur.
Oh my god, that's me. But congrats. Yeah, I feel
like I have a pretty I didn't used to. I
was a pretty jealous kid when I was younger, but
now I feel like I've got a healthy Like I
(27:39):
am jealous for you, but happy for you. But yes,
but yeah, I think it's always good to celebrate each other.
And if you can't celebrate together, then what the freak's
the point you know of being together? Like that's what
you want, right, I feel like that makes things happy. Um,
I will say right now, I'm in the process of
possibly buying a house, y'all. Uh, my partner has been
(28:01):
really great in my stressful moments of like can we
celebrate though you're about to buy house, you know, like
trying to remind me this is a good thing, even
though I'm about to have a paintic attack every thirty seconds.
So stuff like that. I feel like that's what makes
a great relationship in general, not to brag that I
have a great relationship, just in general, like knowing this
is like, Okay, that's a plus, that's a great flag. Yes,
(28:21):
you know, yeah, absolutely absolutely. Obviously, as we were talking
about before, the number of statistics are ever changing. We
talked a little bit about how the pandemic has affected couples,
and many studies can be biased, like I said earlier,
so it's always good to keep in mind when comparing
your own situations to what we're talking about, because like,
as we even talked about, like I don't think this
(28:42):
is true for us individually, but that's always important to
know that even though we have a generic, overarching like
conversation about it, it doesn't fit everyone right right, absolutely absolutely,
And happiness can look different way. Happy I can look
different ways. And clearly we had a lot to say
(29:03):
about this, and in fact we have even more to
say about of course. Yes, I feel like this is
part four. By now it's part four. We're doing a
lot of the talk about happy yes, happy yes, well
it's very important, um. And in part four we're going
to talk about the happiest cities to be for women.
So keep an eye out and ear out for that. UM.
(29:27):
In the meantime, if you have any thoughts about this,
you can emails the stuff me your mom stuff at
ihart me dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at months to podcast or on Instagram and stuff I
ever told you. Thanks it's always to our super producer Christina.
You make us happy. Christina, Yes, and thanks to you
for listening stuff And I told the protection I high
radio for more podcast in my heart radio radio app
Apple podcast, we'll revul listening to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Were welcome to stuff
I've never told your production of I Heart Radio. So
if you have been listening to our Monday minies, we
have been talking a lot about happiness and who are
(00:25):
the happiest, And of course we had some interesting articles
that we looked through and talked about and dissected. But
we had a listener asked us a genuinely great question
on Instagram. Hey, Arianna, I hope I said that right,
And they were asking about lesbian marriages and how they
affect women's happiness and just the whole marriage and happiness correlation,
(00:46):
which had us thinking, so, yeah, who are they happier?
Let's let's talk about it. So you know that we
read through that single and childless women were some of
the more happier group of people. But uh, yeah, let's
take a look at who are the happiest or at
least in couple them, so so that we can figure
this out. We can dissect this, right Annie. And of
(01:06):
course it's always with this, you know, we're speaking in
generalizations and from what we're able to find, right, So,
there's like no one answer, but there are some some
theories and some some data that's been collected, So of course, yes,
when we talk about data and statistics, just a reminder
they can be biased. Uh. It's according to where you
get that information and how you look things up, and
(01:28):
apparently according to Google is according to what you like
and what you've searched for, so it always leans that way.
So just to go ahead and put that caveat. But
we've found some articles that we didn't want to talk
about and kind of a look deeper into what they
are saying and think of why not let's talk about it.
So are lesbian couples happier? Well? In a pink news
(01:51):
dot co dot uk article, they found that the the
marital strain in psychological distress in same sex and different
sex couple studies shows quote UH found that same sex
spouses generally feel more satisfied in their marriages than hetero
sexual spouses do. Uh. As in fact, I think this
is a article just so y'all know, and it's always
good to know day because I feel like, especially in
(02:14):
the last three years, massive changes have happened, so it
can definitely change our perspective of what is happy, what
is it happy? As well as the fact when we
talk about in twenty six seeing versus versus twenty like
all those things, those years are very vastly different. So
ahead because that they are yea, that is true. So
(02:38):
to get these results, they they worked with seven hundred
fifties six US men and women and in their midlife
in seventy eight gay at lesbian and heterosexual marriages and
they catch these like daily diaries. Um. So it's self reporting,
which is always another thing to take note of. But yeah,
self reporting, um stress and how that was related to
(03:02):
their marriage their partner. Women in different sex marriages reported
the most stress. Uh and men in different sex marriages
and women in same sex marriages fell in the middle. Uh.
So they were about the same, reporting the same levels
of stress. Right. We did definitely talk a lot about
this when we talked about women in emotional labor during
the pandemic and stress um even the Great Resignation and
(03:26):
why women were quitting and what this looked like in
the heavy loads that they have had. And this article
kind of talks about that same narrative. It says in
the article most of them relate to traditional gender stereotyping,
including expectations that women should take on the majority of
the housework. So there's definitely that underlying uh stated gender
(03:48):
norm that is heavily laid and put a lot of
responsibility onto women in heterosexual relationships and marriages. So I
thought that was really interesting. I think I don't know
if yeah, you're thinking the same thing, but I could
see that being a proponent where it's what it's the
same gender and the expectations are kind of had to
put to the wayside and a lot more conversation has
(04:10):
had to have happened. Yeah, I think that's a good point.
I remember a few of you listeners different in about this,
and I think it's a good point of the outside
of our traditional heteronormative what we've been taught and what
we've seen is a very heavy quotes and normal relationship.
When you go outside of that, you have to talk
about things like you have to have the conversations that
(04:33):
I think in a lot of hetero couples are sort
of taken for granted. But outside of that, you have
to talk about it because you mant to make sure
you're on the same page, and often you haven't seen
examples perhaps of how this relationship will work. So I
think there's just a lot more conversations happening. I could
(04:53):
be wrong. This is again generalizations that we're speaking right right,
there is and I think it's interesting that again when
we break it down away from that, because even sitcoms
and even shows are starting to show that difference of like, oh,
we need to step away from this traditional household because
it's not funny anymore. It's now just uh trit and
(05:15):
overly used and it doesn't make sense and it should change.
So you see that changing in in media in itself,
and I feel like that reflects a lot upon what
is happening society obviously. And then when we talk about
same sex couples, the level of communications that have to happen.
And you know, I was thinking about this too. Queer
(05:37):
marriage wasn't legalized until not too long ago. We know this,
and it's still kind of in disarray as we talk
about what's happening under state legislations. But that stressor is
kind of for a minute, went away. That level of discrimination,
not real life discrimination, not necessarily they were discrimination, not
necessarily biases against uh A community or biases community or whatever,
(06:01):
but the federal level of stress of like, oh, we're
actually being recognized and being able to get married that
I had to alleviate some of that stressed us well,
so that that level happiness I feel I should have
that had a rise. I would think, again, this is
all conjecture. This is based on my own ideas of like, well,
at least one less thing was heavily laying on there, like, oh,
we can't be arrested for being in our marriage anymore. Wonderful.
(06:24):
That's a new stress like stress reliever, right right, And
I think it's worth noting here, Samantha and I keep
mentioning this mysterious project we're working on it. I think,
you know, someday we'll will be able to tell you
what it is. But for it, I was researching the
history of gay marriage, and I know that that's a
(06:44):
big conversation is um, you know, no, no group or
community is a monolith, and um, some people in the
gay community think like marriage is already part of the heteronormative,
like it's already bad or it's got all this stuff
that's built into it. Not everybody again, not everybody, but like,
I think that that's an interesting conversation that's happening as well,
(07:06):
because it just historically and traditionally has been kind of
a real gender disparity in favor of men in our laws.
So that's also a conversation that's happening. And we've talked
before about, um how in things like the b d
SIM community or the kink community, they similarly have to
(07:27):
have Like I guess, there's just no assumption that you
have to have these conversations write about about these things.
And I think that's so good. I think everybody should
be doing that, right. Yeah, And in that same article,
the same study talks about the level of miscommunication that
was happening and who was willing to talk and who
was willing to work things out. But a lot of
(07:48):
that in that this heteronormative idea, especially when it comes
to since uh, heterosexual relationships that uh, there's this mystery
and gameplay that's been kind of a part of it,
that you're supposed to allow the mel to be dominant
in a relationship and therefore you never question, you never
pushed back, and all of these narratives that were so
(08:09):
toxic and I'm using that word don't come at me,
but it was, and it is when you can't when
you feel like you can't communicate and have a open conversation.
And I will say that was one of my bigger
things growing up that I was willing to accept these norms.
But I made sure to put out if you're willing
to listen to me, even though I was under this
(08:30):
whole understanding with the religion and all of these things,
like okay, that's the way it works. But if he
is a truly good man and I'm yes, I'm putting
this all in like again head a normative ways of speaking,
then he's listening and we are compromising. I will allow
him to quote unquote speak for me, which makes me
a kind of nauxious is thinking about now if he
(08:50):
hears me and if we're talking about it behind closed doors,
if that's not happening, this is not a fulfilling relationship.
But I knew that as like I think, I said
this is a twelve year old to my father because
we were talking about what was happening in in our
church at that point. He asked me, which was weird
because he had more respect for me than I can't say.
It seemed like he had more respect for me than
(09:11):
my own mother. I was at times um, but him
coming to like, what do you think and I said,
these are these things, and he was like, Okay, do
you trust me to say that for him? Like, I
trust you because we're having a conversation and you said
you're listening. He's like, you're right, I will. It's like,
then that's a good relationship, you know, like coming down
to that wire of like if it truly worked out
that way, then these are the things that would happen
(09:32):
and come into play. Right. Yeah. I think that's a
really good point because if you can't trust somebody to
listen to you, then that you're already starting at an unequal,
right part, you already off to a bad foot in
this was right, right. So one study did show at
(10:02):
least the queer community in marriages maybe happier, that's what.
But we also found another article. And in this article
it talks about, um, what makes couples happier or the
happiest And it's from inc dot com. So they had
this whole list of these are the top characteristics that
(10:23):
make for a happy relationship, UM. And they had different studies.
So it's from inc dot com, I n C dot com, UM,
And we wanted to read the list. We're not gonna
get all We're not going to give create to all
of them. We're not gonna sit and discuss all of them.
But I found them interesting and I thought it would
be something to talk about because if you're trying to
seek that happy relationship, maybe these are some of the things. Uh.
(10:44):
Number one, don't fight over texts. So I thought that
was pretty funny because I'm like, oh, that's the only
way i have to communicate, though, I feel like that's
the best way I can get my point across without
breaking down and sounding ridiculous. It's interesting that you say that,
because I too, feel like I like to think things out.
(11:06):
I'll write things down because you know, you lose so
much over text. With that your like emojis or whatever,
the emotion is lost. So sometimes I'll write because I'm
bad about I'll react emotionally, I'll get defensive. I know this,
it's a problem, but if I'm unprepared, so I like
to be prepared, I write the thing down and then
(11:27):
we can talk about it. But I don't like going
into a fight unprepared, which I know sounds ridiculous because
a lot of times they just happen. But if there's
something that you know you need to talk about and
there's probably going to be a disagreement. I will write
it out, write down my thoughts, and then I'll go
in and we can. I mean, I feel it makes sense.
I mean, text can be bad, especially if you're just
(11:47):
exploding conversations back and forth. I'm sure. But like if
I'm having like a moment and I'm coming back and
this is how I need to tell you, it's gonna
be like fifteen texts that's wanted. Probably should be an email.
(12:07):
It makes the communicate better, but hey, who knows it
says take it to the place where you can actually
talk to their faces. But uh yeah, that's not always
great if you're a high emotion, high stress. This is
kind of I feel like that's similar to the narrative
like don't go to bed angry, Like that doesn't work.
I thought, if I need to calm down or I'm
going to say something I'm gonna regret, right, And a
(12:29):
lot of times, exhaustion it's not good when you're having
a fight and you're tired, it's going to be worse, right,
So not always, But okay, that's one number two, And
we've talked about this before. Don't have kids, that's what
it says. By the way, I'm not telling you to
do this. It just says don't have kids. We are
just the messenger. That makes sense to me too. I
(12:51):
think that it's lovely and the word this article you
just fulfilling. As having children can be stressful. I don't
like anybody who fight about that. I think that especially
in a relationship where there can be these kind of
inconsistencies and responsibilities and that money. That's what gets me
(13:14):
all the time, the cost of raising a child, and
especially in a lot of like the times we're living
through now and just so much stress on parents. Like
it makes sense to me. We're not saying yes again,
we're like not anti chual, but again we've talked about
the many times the different articles who were like these
(13:35):
may be the happiest people, and it may be because
it's less responsibility. I mean, let's just be real honest. Yeah,
there's a lot of responsibility and kudos to those parents. Kudos. Yes,
I'm not goodness, this one's interesting. Uh have friends who
stay married? Mm hmm. I feel like that's the same
(13:57):
kind of narrative of like your parents they stay Uh
just kind of like that level of like oh, it
can be done. Maybe. Yeah, I thought that too, And
then my parents had a real rough period and I
was like, I would just rather have been divorced, right,
but the definitely moment like that, like just YEA would
have been happier, we all would have been happier. Yeah,
(14:17):
And I just think, like, I totally get this point,
but I think it is very risky just to put
your kind of I don't know, faith or belief in
something into someone else. It makes sense to me that
you're like, because we've talked about that before. You know,
we're mostly friends with single people because for the same
parts in our lives. Um, But to be like, well,
they're still together, and so that means I can't be too.
I think that's a risk. Yes. And also even the perfect,
(14:41):
most perfect marriages, you don't realize there's a lot of
its happening. Yeah. Oh yeah, Um, here's another interesting one
fight at the beginning, then not a lot. I feel
like I've done this. I'm winning, right, I'm sure looking
at relationships in terms of winner losses definitely the way
(15:02):
I think this makes sense too, though, because you want
to kind of get those prickly fights out at the
beginning right, um, and hopefully that will give you indication
of whether or not you can work together. Do you
think And this is like it's strange to say, but
there's a skill in fighting without hurting somebody. Um, I
(15:23):
think you learned that when you get older. Because I
don't want people to like just go out and be
raging and hurting other people, right, but to have like
a good, healthy fight. Yeah, it's not a bad that.
That's what I think is interesting because that's what I
was talking about. How I know if you get me
what I'm angry, I'm gonna black out and say something
really mean because I am cruel, Like I can be cruel,
(15:44):
and I see your weaknesses and I'll come at it.
So I need a moment so I don't go below
the belt. Like I said this many times, I'm like,
if you don't leave me alone, I'm going to say
something that's gonna be so hurtful and I'm gonna feel
bad about it, and you're gonna feel bad about it
and we're never gonna be able to forget it, and
then it's gonna be even more. You need to let
me calm down so I can push that aside and
be the nicer me. But I also think about, like
(16:08):
how people talk about marriages, that the first year can
be the roughest, and if you can survive that, then
you're okay essentially working things out, readjusting essentially into what
is now a coupledom and being hopefully an equal partnership,
and how that can look at it the beginning fairly
rough and if you can get through those and you
(16:29):
can actually establish how to communicate, actually established boundaries, being
able to know, uh, this is the moment we need
time out that type of thing, then possibly, So that
makes sense to me because I've I've heard that all
my life the first year is the roughest, and I'm like,
that supposed to be the honeymoon period, but it's actually not.
And another one are I guess this is more of
a like a logistatistic as opposed to a strategy. So
(16:55):
it says are comprised of one firstborn child and one
lastborn child, which I feel like it's so specific. Yeah,
I want to know how they got these numbers. Uh,
that is so specific. I have nothing really to say
on that because I don't know if that could be true.
I guess I'm like out for the count you just
(17:18):
dRIT sexuality. Okay, because you're the middle child, you can't
have anybody, so that you're not supposed to be with anybody.
I will. I'll just always be kind of middling, never great.
I guess that is interesting. I have some theories why
(17:40):
that might be. It's almost like the opposites taking care
of each other. Yeah. Then, yeah, where does the middle
child club? Who companies are they? They feel like I
feel like, if that's this is what we're to say,
then the middle child can be with anyone because they
are the neutral negative. Yeah, yeah, there you go. There's
the universal lovely one. I'll take it. I'll tell you
(18:02):
it probably just means they're boring. And then this one.
And I feel like we talked about this at the
beginning with the gender roles. I know who does what
when it comes to housework, Um, I think that's very
good and talking about it, but that that would be
a little too organized for my scattered brains. I'm like,
sometimes I'm in the mood to do this, sometimes I'm not.
I am never in the mood to fold laundry. So
(18:24):
if my partner wants to do that, I will be
glad for them. To do that. I'll wash it, I'll
bring it back up. You folded and put it up.
I'm the same with dishes. I hate doing tshues. I
mean and we've talked about that before. Uh. And I
think we used to joke. Bridget used to joke with me,
never move in unless they have a dishwasher. Uh. Then
(18:44):
you can definitely put stressors on relationships these kind of tasks.
I've only had one again for the first time in
five years in the last three months. Love it, Love
it so much. Yeah, it's pretty good. It's pretty good.
Here's an interesting one. Are gay or straight and feminist?
Mm hmmm, yeah, I could see this. I can see
(19:08):
this too. Oh so the study they got this from
it is called feminism and romance go hand in hand
like that. This is a pamphlet to hand it out
to people. Yeah, yeah, I mean too. All right. Here's
(19:39):
another one that is very interesting, and we have talked
about this before. If hetero are comprised of a lovely
lady in and not as lovely man, which is sort
of what we were talking about with this kind of
traditional sitcom couple. How I just find this so interesting.
I was watching a movie the other day where this
came out. But they made it as if it was
like we should be the woman is so nice and
(20:03):
kind she can be with this not attractive man, right,
which I have a lot of I actually have a
happy hour. I want to talk about this. I have
a lot of thoughts about this, but like it's paint
it is it's a great trait for her, which it is.
You shouldn't really judge people by their looks. But at
the same time, it's like he's not like that was
the thing he said about her, And the thing he
(20:25):
said was she could see past all of my terrible
qualities and looks. That's always what they say. I just
heard that a lot. What movie was I watching? And
there they said that, you see. So the show that
I keep telling you about essentially is the Bell The
beauty is in love with rubble, still skin, the dude
that's super ugly, and like he keeps saying, because you
(20:45):
can see past the monster and it's the same level.
But I do want to read from this the article.
So the study came from the Journal of Personality and
Social Psychology, and it says, quote, when husband's view their
wives as the more attractive of the pair, not only
are they more satisfied in the relationship, but the wives
are too. The opposite was not true. When husbands thought
(21:08):
they were better looking, they weren't as happy. I still
like that has a lot to do with male fragility. Uh.
And we should come back to this and have this
conversation because this, and again it may be on the
side of social media that I'm on where we see
a lot of women just really taking on the part
of I don't need men, I am who I am
and whatever. Uh. And being a single is not a threat,
(21:31):
So I don't know why you pretend like it is.
But so many men are so angry when women say
they are attractive. They find that offensive, even though that's
what they want. But they they want to be the
ones to tell them that they want this whole like
song level of oh, she doesn't know she's beautiful type
of conversation was like, but they do, and they should,
(21:53):
and they should appreciate themselves as you appreciate them as well.
Why is that a bad thing? Technoledge that you might
be like you might look of that day like, I
love that confidence. And it took me forever to realize
that's not a fault to have friends who are like, oh,
all good today, And I was like, how dare you
like yourself? Yeah? Bragging? It was appreciating what yes, yeah.
(22:15):
I also think like this is a commentary or or
just a piece of our bigger conversation of women's value
still being like largely in their looks um and men's
value kind of being and more of the economic strength level,
so that it's more acceptable to have a more attractive
woman with a less attractive man than the other way around.
(22:37):
When I think it'd be like, oh, he must pity
her as opposed to a man, and with a more
attractive woman it's like good for him. He yeah, bagged
of a hot lady or whatever like have that sentiment
was today phrasing bagged and then you went all schooled
like a hot lady. I'm not good with the phrases today.
(23:01):
I've never been cool with either. I appreciated it, well,
thank you, thank you? Yeah. Another one, uh is our
best friends, which again that makes sense to me, right,
But you know I could never do this, So people
that I friended, I couldn't date. I never I still
(23:24):
to this day, if I am friends with you, you
go beyond that and you become a sibling, and I
don't know if it's not protective barrier and like I
need you to remain safe for me or what. But
that was never a thing if you're like maybe after
the fact, yes, after the fact that we started the relationship,
we grew and then you become a confident parts and
I trust absolutely, But I could never be with someone
(23:46):
who was a friend first. Yeah, I feel like it's
sort of always backfired for me where and this is
a lot more to do with like my own sexuality
and stuff. But I thought we were friends and then
he did not think that, um, and then moment. I
don't have those moments. I have a few, but I
(24:07):
think I shut it down so quickly that it becomes like, okay, yeah,
we NI could never I have this weird like, oh
you're my best friend. I would never touch you, like
immediately type of conversation And I don't mean to, but
it's just an automatic response for me. Uh. Speaking of
which they have a lot of friends in common is
(24:28):
what's also on the list, And I feel like that's
a good and bad thing because what happens if you
break up exactly you kind of know though, like where
it's gonna split. You've got it in your head, like
the divorce, and I think I made a list. It's like,
these are the people you will not see ever again.
If we break up, you just say you were aware.
(24:51):
I feel like I have, like a lot of times
I've had like my group of friends. They're a group
of friends and we all become friends, but then when
we break up, it's over. It's no longer. Yeah, sad,
but you know it happens. Spends money in similar ways.
I feel like that's a lot of practical applications, so
that although that could also be a detriment if one
(25:11):
person likes to spend a lot and the other person
it's like, yeah, me too, then you just both run
out of money. Yeah, there could be problems for sure,
But again I think there are a lot of a
lot of fights do you stem from money or financial issues?
So that also makes sense to me. That's always been
one of those things where I might maybe because I
remember coming in young seeing good relationships that we have
(25:32):
different finances we keep. I was like, I think that's
smart too, I was that was never a question. I
was like, no, this is like we can have one
account where we put all of our utilities and all
of that, but everything else. My paycheck comes to mind,
paycheck goes to yours, and then we put our little
bits here. I agree, I agree. Well, here's an interesting one.
(25:54):
Have sex at least once a week? Yeah, yeah, sure,
why not? This one came from two thousand four, So
I feel like it's a little dated, um, especially when
we talk about the queer world actually coming out and
having a conversation about what their sexuality means to them
or it doesn't, and we're acknowledging and recognizing the differences.
(26:15):
Maybe it's just my world because you're in my world,
but I feel like we've become a lot more open
and aware, um, and that sex shouldn't be the basis.
And then again, the pandemic has taught us quite a
bit about whether to do or we do without. Yeah,
the numbers have changed a lot during this pandemic, which
could be for stress reasons, could be for tons of stuff.
(26:36):
But right, that's an interesting see. Oh and I love
this last one because I feel like it should be
with every relationship and not just couples, but celebrates each
other's achievements and yes, if you're wanted to be jealous,
then that's a problem. Yeah, for sure. I definitely dated
the guy who never like every time I'd be like,
oh I gotta raise, would be like silence, And then
(26:58):
I think I might get job promotion. So he never
would acknowledge any of my things that I accomplished. That's
not cool. No, that's not cool. Remember it clearly many
years ago, obviously. Like I think about this with my
friends too, Like there are moments where I'm super jealous
of my other friends and I'm like, oh my god,
whatever whatnot, but also celebrating with them because you want
(27:19):
them to have the best life. Just because you don't
get that doesn't mean that they shouldn't either, Like it's
such a weird thing, but yeah, but jealousy does occur.
Oh my god, that's me. But congrats. Yeah, I feel
like I have a pretty I didn't used to. I
was a pretty jealous kid when I was younger, but
now I feel like I've got a healthy Like I
(27:39):
am jealous for you, but happy for you. But yes,
but yeah, I think it's always good to celebrate each other.
And if you can't celebrate together, then what the freak's
the point you know of being together? Like that's what
you want, right, I feel like that makes things happy. Um,
I will say right now, I'm in the process of
possibly buying a house, y'all. Uh, my partner has been
(28:01):
really great in my stressful moments of like can we
celebrate though you're about to buy house, you know, like
trying to remind me this is a good thing, even
though I'm about to have a paintic attack every thirty seconds.
So stuff like that. I feel like that's what makes
a great relationship in general, not to brag that I
have a great relationship, just in general, like knowing this
is like, Okay, that's a plus, that's a great flag. Yes,
(28:21):
you know, yeah, absolutely absolutely. Obviously, as we were talking
about before, the number of statistics are ever changing. We
talked a little bit about how the pandemic has affected couples,
and many studies can be biased, like I said earlier,
so it's always good to keep in mind when comparing
your own situations to what we're talking about, because like,
as we even talked about, like I don't think this
(28:42):
is true for us individually, but that's always important to
know that even though we have a generic, overarching like
conversation about it, it doesn't fit everyone right right, absolutely absolutely,
And happiness can look different way. Happy I can look
different ways. And clearly we had a lot to say
(29:03):
about this, and in fact we have even more to
say about of course. Yes, I feel like this is
part four. By now it's part four. We're doing a
lot of the talk about happy yes, happy yes, well
it's very important, um. And in part four we're going
to talk about the happiest cities to be for women.
So keep an eye out and ear out for that. UM.
(29:27):
In the meantime, if you have any thoughts about this,
you can emails the stuff me your mom stuff at
ihart me dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at months to podcast or on Instagram and stuff I
ever told you. Thanks it's always to our super producer Christina.
You make us happy. Christina, Yes, and thanks to you
for listening stuff And I told the protection I high
radio for more podcast in my heart radio radio app
Apple podcast, we'll revul listening to your favorite shows.
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