Please Stop Calling the Police On Every Little Thing

911 isn't your personal complaint hotline.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Bridget and this is Annie, and you're
listening the stuff Mom never told you. Okay, this is
gonna be a heavy one. M This is the one
that's been burning in my mind for a very long time,

(00:26):
and I wrestled with whether or not it was something
i'd bring to the podcast. But I'm bringing it to
the podcast. She's bringing it, I'm bringing it. This is
my plea white people, please stop calling the police on
every little thing. Please, Yes, we are begging you. Okay,
let's take a step back. Okay. Recently, there have been

(00:48):
very high profile instances of white people, a lot of
whom are white women my dad, calling the police on
black and brown folks who have literally done nothing wrong.
Quick recap. This is very deviated. If we were going
to do all of them, even if in the last
couple of weeks, we'd be here all day. Yeah, you
probably heard the first one Starbucks in Philadelphia. Two black

(01:08):
men were arrested after a Starbucks store manager called the
police because they were sitting in the store with that
place in order. The two men so they were waiting
for a friend who would literally justiized as they were
being taken away in handcuffs, Now, the two men, both black,
didn't even know the manager had called the police. They
said they had only been in the shop a few
minutes before they were summoned by police officers. A bystander

(01:29):
got video. The barista said, oh, that you know they
had been sitting here and have made a purchase. They
were like oh. One woman was like, oh, I've been
sitting here for hours and have bought anything. They apparently
had asked with a bathroom code and they said, oh,
you haven't bought anything. But someone else had said, oh,
I also got the code and I'm white and didn't
buy anything and it wasn't a problem. So it seems

(01:50):
pretty obvious what was going on. Yeah, I mean they
were in public, put in handcuffs and taken away, which
is more and awful. Another ridiculous one Yale University. A
white female student called police and a black student for
falling asleep in the common room while working on a paper.
Now the police showed up. They questioned the black student

(02:13):
for fifteen minutes. She showed the police the key to
her room and her ID and basically it sounds like
these cops were kind of harassing her. She says, I
deserve to be here, she said in the video. I
paid tuitions like everybody else. I'm not going to justify
my existence here. It's not even a conversation. So again,
you know, this was someone who had every right to
be in a common space of her dorm being questioned

(02:35):
by police in her own on her own campus, which
is absurd. Absolutely, And I mean uamongas has not fallen
asleep in the common room if you've gone to college. Yeah,
that's just kind of that's like the lead, like of
all the things that go down in the common room
with the dorm, sleeping is like the one you was like,
oh thank god she was sleeping. All things that could

(02:55):
go down there. Bob Marley's granddaughter and her friends were
taking luggage out of her Airbnb when they are met
with a huge, oversized police presence, including being tracked by
a helicopter. Attorneys for the group say that a neighbor
called nine to one one because the group refused to
smile or wave at her. Oh wow. So basically, if

(03:16):
you're black in America, you are obligated to smile and
way if someone looks at you. Otherwise you got you
gotta they got to involve the police. Dandom choice. What
kind of nightmare world where everyone's smiling everybody? I mean,
you're not allowed to have a bad day, or like
you wanna, you know, not acknowledge knowledge a stranger forbid.

(03:38):
We do not get that option. It gets worse. Police
were called on a group of black women golfing at
the Grand View golf Course in York County, Pennsylvania. Now,
this story is just really exhausting. When I read it,
I was just like, are homie, homie, are you kidding me?

(03:59):
Stee Crawned Teischer, I don't know if I'm saying that right. Frankly,
I hope I'm saying it wrong, because you Steve, he
co owns this golf course. Now he called nine to
one one because these women. Can you guess what they
were doing wrong golfing? They were golfing too slowly. They
of older women who were rust They said they were

(04:19):
rusty at playing golf. They were goffing too slowly. He
says that the women were not meaning the time guidelines
and delaying tea times for other golfers. So he called
nine on one twice. Bernersty called nine one one, and
he said, oh, these women are goffing too slowly. Then
I guess they'd pick up the pace. Then they started
going slowly again. He came outside to talk to them,

(04:41):
and I guess the conversation didn't go well. He called
nine one one. He wanted to have the women remove
from the golf course. When the cops showed up, they
pretty quickly realized, oh wait, this is not a police matter,
and they left and the women kept goffing. I wouldn't
be surprised if they were like, well, we're picking our
but they eventually just left on their own, and once,
you know, the police came and they thought this is

(05:02):
not we shouldn't. Like, why are you called for this?
This is ridiculous, and it is ridiculous. Another in my
hometown of Washington, DC, a white woman called park security
when she saw a black father pushing his son in
a park in a stroller. She called to report a
quote suspicious man walking the bike path of the baby.
Now this is broad daylight. Yeah, just a guy, were they?

(05:24):
I mean, guess how the picture that the stroller is fancyish,
Like I did not see that and be like, oh,
I mean maybe she thought the stroller was stolen. I
don't know, in what world this constitute has suspicious behavior
someone walking a child in a park and a stroller
and broad daylight. But whatever reasons, woman felt threatened, felt
it was suspicious, called nine one one. The police came.

(05:45):
Uh told the man, what have happened? They said, a
woman calls to report you, I think I'm obligated to
come check it out. I just want to let you
know what happened. You know, he wasn't arrested or anything,
and he describes the encounter as being very polite and
you know, by the book, but still that someone encountered
him and needed to call authorities is wild and my

(06:06):
personal favorite. You've probably heard about this because it sort
of took over the internet the last week or so.
A white woman called nine one one to report that
a group of black friends and families were breaking the
law by barbecuing with a charcoal grill in a public park.
While she was on the phone with the police, she
accused one of the men of trespassing in a public park.
I love this story because one this woman became a

(06:29):
really hilarious beam where pictures of her calling the police
were photoshopped over pictures of Obama. Pictures from Black Panther
pictures of like any black person doing anything. She's in
the background on the phone call on the police. And
another great thing about how this story went down is

(06:49):
that a week later, the Oakland community kind of celebrated
her munification by throwing what looks like the biggest, blackest,
most lit barbecue in that same part. The next week
they had swagsurfing and the electric slide. I'm sure all
kinds of charcoal grilled just to say, hey, we're allowed

(07:10):
to grill in public, you can't call the police. We exist,
we're allowed to take up space. So here's why these
situations are so troubling to me. All of them are
instances that just did not need to happen. One, the
people who called nine one one could have all just
minded their business, to be frank with you, but they
could have just not done that. They could have said, oh,

(07:30):
there's someone using a barbecue and then just lived their lives,
you know, yep, just got perfectly and not become memes
right and like not have spent a full forty eight
hours being made fun of by the entire Internet. But
that's one way that could have gone down, or it
could have been solved by a simple conversation. Right, the

(07:53):
instance of the woman with Airbnb, she could have come
out and said, you know, I think she probably should
have minded her business. But if she was really that pressed,
she could have said, hey, you know, hello, I'm the neighbor,
just saying hi. You know, she could have used her
words and solved it via this simple tool called communication. Oh,
I've heard of that. Have you heard of it? It

(08:15):
can really solve problems. You don't actually need to involve
the police. You can actually use this tool first in
a lot of instances, or just do nothing right. Again,
in any of these cases at Yale, if she just
let that girl sleep, you know, probably would have just
kept sleeping, like it probably would have been fine. But
I could you just mind her business and like gone

(08:36):
back to her dorm and lived her life and forgot
about it. And the worst thing that could happen is
this person will be sleeping on a couch. Yeah, Like,
all right, minding your business is always a choice. So
let me be very clear. I am not saying never
call the police. There are times the police are needed.
If someone is hurt, there's an emergency, you know, there's

(08:57):
an accident. Definitely definitely call the police. If you on
faith someone's being threatened. I'm not saying never call the police.
What I am saying is not every interpersonal interaction requires
a call to nine one one. People use like, use
your heads. Yeah, think about it. So this is my
plea use discretion before calling nine one one, Like, think

(09:19):
about it. Is there a better way to handle the situation?
Do you need to summon armed guards of the state
over a barbecue? You know, I would say no, but
that's me. I would say no unless the barbecue is
like got fireworks and explosions attached to it, some kind
of death machine. For the most part, Yeah, barbecues tend

(09:42):
to be pretty yeah, unless it's some sort of evil barbecue.
If it is an evil, malicious barbecue, then maybe maybe
maybe you could just try throwing hot dogs or hamburgers
at it. Okay, there's other options, or do you've got
other options? That's a good point. So, yeah, this is
something that has been weighing on me, and I think

(10:04):
because it's in the news a lot, it's just something
that is I'm seeing it again and again and again,
and I realized I don't actually know if people know
that you don't need to call the police. For every interaction.
You know, I don't know that that's a thing that
people have internalized at this point. I feel like we
are so averse to just having a conversation with somebody.
Yeah that you know, if you're thinking my first line,

(10:26):
you're calling nine one one should be your last line
of defense. Even law enforcement officials say that calling nine
one one for every little thing is actually making their
job harder. And so if you're someone who cares about
public order and public safety, calling nine one to report, like,
using it like it's task Rabbit is not actually making
people safer, it's making people unsafer. Yeah. Absolutely, And I

(10:49):
would just think about what other actual emergencies they could
be dealing with. Especially, I mean, even if you take
away the the cop aspect of it, we're so understaffed
when it comes to people who answer the calls. Even
there's a lot of ripple effects that are happening that's

(11:10):
going to impact it could really negatively impact someone else
who needs actual help. Well. According to Ty Wooton, educational
director of the National Emergency Number Association, also known as
the nine to one one Association, you should follow this
general rule. Dial nine to one one anytime there's a
threat to life or property such as an accident, a crime,

(11:32):
a fire, or a medical emergency. But you know, none
of these things fit into that category. Yeah, while while
if you're in a small town while the police force
is out investigating somebody, you know, just like breathing on
the street, there could be a real crime going on. Yeah. Absolutely,

(11:53):
And I just don't understand for me personally, calling nine
one one is such a a big step that you
are saying this is an emergency. I can't imagine personally.
And that actually goes along with the data that we
have around people's feelings around calling nine one one. I

(12:14):
think most marginalized folks have an understanding that calling the
police in a situation won't necessarily make it any safer,
even for the person who called the police. According to
The Atlantic, black people are less likely than white people
to call the police. The data actually hints at this
idea that I think most marginalized folks kind of innately
know whether involving police will help a situation or make

(12:34):
it worse. Marginalized communities do not feel confident that reaching
out to the authorities that are supposed to protect them
will actually do so. And I think that's absolutely accurate.
The last time that I called nine one one, this
was a couple of years ago. I was going to work.
I was walking to work, and I was walking right,
I was like very late for work, and so I
was leaving my apartment and I saw as I was

(12:56):
walking toward it, what was It looks like a domestic
dis you to some kind It was a man and
a woman having a really loud public argument on the street.
So I kind of thought, like, I'm gonna walk behind
them for a little bit, see what happens. Then it
got physical, and so it turned into the guy punching
the girl. It turned into it turned into a physical situation,

(13:16):
so I ran over. It was me and a couple.
The couple was very old, so they really couldn't do
a lot because they were very very old. And we
sort of physically got in the middle of the of
the couple, and so the older couple took the guy
aside and they were talking to him and they were like,
you know, don't do this, just talk it out or
just like take a pack of breath. Yeah, And while

(13:37):
they were doing that, I was sort of with the
girl who had been hit in the face and what's
weird is that this was I lived on a busy street,
and so we were the only people who were physically
getting involved. I'm sure people were watching or looking, but
we were the only people who were like, we need
to do something. So it seemed like this older couple
was sort of taking care of him, and I was
walking with the woman away and I was like, gonna

(13:59):
put her on the metro or get cab and like
figure it out. So we're walking in different directions, the
guy and the older couple and her. Then the guy
just starts running at us. And this couple who was
with him, they're elderly, so it's something they could have
stopped him. Yeah, they really didn't have a lot of choices,
and he stabbed her in the arm and it was terrifying.

(14:20):
And of course at this point I was like, well,
we need to call nine on one. So I pick
up my phone and she's like, are you calling the police?
Please don't, And I was like, I took a breath,
and I thought, this is the person, the victim in
the situation is asking me not to call nine on one,
but she needs immediate medical attention, And you know, I

(14:43):
just didn't feel right about not doing it, and so
I called that on one. We were just a few
blocks in my apartments. I brought her inside to my apartment.
My landlord was inside. He came out of his unit
and was like, there's a heavily bleeding person on the floor,
and I was like, yeah, I know. You know, I
quickly saw why she asked me not to call nine

(15:04):
on one. When the authorities arrived, they were frankly more concerned,
but the fact that this woman was drinking a beer
on the street like she had. She had an open beer,
and so they were like, oh, is this your beer?
And I was like, and I ended up saying, oh,
it's mine, because I didn't want them to right and think.
She had her bag with her that was open, and
they were I could tell they were kind of nosing
through it. And bear in mind she had just been stabbed, yeah,

(15:26):
multiple times. They were, you know, they weren't life threatening stabs,
but she was profusely bleeding, and they just seemed more
interested in being like, are you have drugs in your bag?
You know, what what are you doing? And I quickly
saw why she did not want me to call nine
on one, because they did not treat her with respect.
And I think had I had I, had I not

(15:47):
been there and made it clear that I mean, I
hate to say it. I think that they pegged her as,
you know, a low income person, and they pegged me
as someone who was not low income. And I think
had I not been there to be like, no, that's
my beer, and I live here and I'm twenty one,
I'm older than twenty one, so move on, or no,
that's my bag so and no, you can't go through it,

(16:09):
move on. If I had not been there, and had
I not known what to say to signal to them
that one I know my rights, two I will make
trouble for you, and three this is my house and
I'm you know, you know you can't do anything to me.
I've done nothing wrong and I'm not afraid of you.
And you know, if I had not known the things
to say to signal that, and if I had been

(16:31):
in any way like vulnerable, right, if I was not
a legal resident of the United States, right, or if
I was a sex worker, right, if they if they
had something on me, or they sensed they did, that
would have been a very different experience. And I could
tell that. I could tell by the way they were
treating her that they felt that about her and they
didn't feel it about me, And I was very I

(16:51):
wanted to be very clear with them, like, you can't
play either of us, Like I get what's going on here.
She's bleeding into my conscious so she's you know, she's
down for the count. But I understand what's happening, and
you're not going to play either of us. And I
remember when I was like, when they were putting her
in the ambulance, I was like, oh, let me give
you Let me give you my number so you can
give to her in case she needs a witness or
a ride home or whatever. And he said to me, ma'am,

(17:13):
she's from Anacostia, and if you know DC, Anacostia is
sort of considered quote unquote the hood. It's across the river.
And basically what he was saying was I mean, it
just was very clear to me the situation was perceived
race and class lines in a way that was immediately
very tense, and I completely understood why she didn't want

(17:34):
me to call nine one one. Immediately I was like, oh,
this is how you experience a call to nine one
one when you are the victim. You've done nothing wrong.
You are bleeding, like you're semi conscious on a floor,
a stranger's floor right now, and this is how they
treat you. And so I immediately was like, oh right,
this is how it is. And so, yeah, that experience
did not fill me with you know, warm fuzzies. I'm

(17:57):
at the police and it made it makes me what
when I see people calling nine one one for anything
less than an emergency. And I don't regret calling nine
one because I couldn't give her the medical attention that
she needed. She was she needed, she needed help. But
when I see people who call them for any old thing,
I think about that, and I think about what that

(18:18):
experience is like. And I'm someone who's very privileged, right like,
I have a good job, I have a college degree,
I lived a gentrified part of DC, all of those things, right,
I know how to code switch all of that, And
that experience was still very negative for me. And I
can't imagine people who are more marginalized what that experience
is like for them. But I saw a little bit

(18:38):
of it, and I only saw a tiny bit, and
I saw the version they give when there's a property
owner in the mix because my landlord was there and
he's older and he's a man, right, So, like I
saw the version they were giving when there was the
certain class markers were met, and so I can't imagine
what it's like when those those people are not around, right, right, yeah,

(18:59):
and yeah, just it makes me I think if people
understood what those experiences are like, they would not call
nine on one over a barbecue, right, you know, and
look at experiences like John Crawford who was shot after
someone saw him in a Walmart picking up a gun,
an air pellet gun that he was intending to buy,

(19:19):
you know, picking it up that was being sold at Walmart,
walking around casually holding it under his arm while talking
on my phone. Someone called down on one and the
police just shot him and killed him. And it's I
think that if people understood what the experience is like
when police are involved in a marginalized person's life, they
wouldn't just be so quick to call them and they
and they shouldn't be. That situation could have been solved

(19:41):
any number of ways, and the last resort way should
be nine one one, because now he's dead and he
did nothing wrong. Yeah, I mean, I don't have to
say it, but I will say it. It's very upsetting.
It's upsetting that these people that that we want to
protect us and they don't and we can't trust them too.
And if you don't have an advocate for you, if
you hadn't been there for that woman, I don't know.

(20:04):
I think about her a lot. I think about her
a lot. And again, I'm a black woman, but I'm also,
like I said, I'm very privileged, and so I don't
like with the police either. Like a like, it has
to be life for death for me to call the police.
But if me as a educated, decently but moderately well off,
you know, person who sort of knows how to talk

(20:25):
to the police or whatever, knows how to code switch. Yeah,
if the experience is bad for me, imagine what it's
like for people who are not like me. And I
think people are not thinking that through. They're not understanding
that you could be you could be signing someone's death warrant,
right Like the person who called nine one one on
John Crawford. He probably didn't understand that calling nine on

(20:45):
one was going to lead to his death. But that's reality.
I mean, look at the data here. According to the
police violence report one one hundred and forty seven people
were killed by police in twenty seventeen. Now, black folks
were more likely to be killed by police, and more
likely to be unarmed and less likely to be threatening
someone when they were killed. And on top of that,
police recruits spend seven times as many hours training to shoot,

(21:07):
and they do training to de escalate situations. So that
just tells you right there. You know, when you call
these people in, you need to be damn sure you
understand what you're doing. Yeah, And I don't want to
come down hard on police here, although I think my
feelings about police are probably obvious and probably don't need
to say them. But a lot of time police officers
are dealing with situations that they really have no business

(21:29):
dealing with. Somebody who's having a mental health crisis. The police,
I mean, they should be trained and how to deal
with someone who's having a mental health crisis, but calling
nine to one one on somebody who is having a
mental health crisis, it should not be the first side
of defense. And so I feel for the police in
a kind of way which will probably shock people to hear,
because they are being tasked to deal with situations that frankly,

(21:49):
we should have better services and people who are trained
better to deal with these things, and they're being called
in to deal with them. But people should understand what
you are doing when you are involving, When you are
summoning armed agents of the state to deal with someone
because they're having a loud party, you should understand what
that means. Yes, absolutely, I mean I don't know it

(22:14):
should be the last line for many reasons, but just
I know we're on the same page on this. But like,
introducing a gun or a weapon into any situation automatically
like raises the stakes of it. So I mean, I
don't know, someone's barbecuing outside of my house, let's add
a gun to the mix. It just doesn't the first

(22:34):
line of yeah, exactly. I can see if you went
over there and they physically threatened you, they costed you,
that's you know. Yeah, even I might be like, well,
oh I get I would get that. But just seeing
someone barbecuing, and that's some says and I'm going straight
to nine on one thing. Yeah, no, do not do that. No,
do not do that. There are times to call the police,

(22:55):
and there are times to just really, honestly, does mind
your business. That's like the Yeah, the first rule of
living in a city, I feel like is no one
to mind your business. And a lot of these people
could have just mine up their business. Gene Demi wrote
it Slate. I thought this was perfectly put to your point, Annie.
The police were called into this situation, as a colleague said,
to mediate a misunderstanding, like they were always in a

(23:17):
dorm room, not armed agents of the state with a
broad discretion to use violence and detain people. The police
are not your personal grievance task force. No, They're not
there to sort out any interpersonal misunderstanding that you have.
We are adults. We can do that, right, Like you
can use your mouth and say, hey, do you know

(23:38):
I'm so and so. I mean, okay, here you can
if you really feel I need to get involved, you
can do that. I might say, just your business. Yeah, yeah,
maybe we need like a a mediating task force just
goes around, No need to call the police. Have you

(24:00):
tried just minding your business and just like living your life.
But I'm just I see like it's like, I know,
we should take a break, and I'm getting on my
high horse. I know, I'm sorry. People are gonna be like,
this is one of Bridget's ranty episodes, and it is,
but it's upsetting me. I think it's related to gentrification
in public space and being a black person who has

(24:20):
lived in a lot of gentrifying cities. I think it's
about who is and who is not allowed to feel
okay in public, and who kind of always has to
have their guard up when they're in public. A perfect
example is myself. I was once locked out, locked out
of my own apartment, and I was in my apartment
at the time, had a way of getting into the
window that was kind of like we had a way

(24:40):
of getting in, and I remember being afraid. I remember
thinking like someone, if someone calls, if someone sees me
going into my own apartment, they could call nine on one.
And I was just like, I don't want to deal
with that. I don't want to deal with that. And
so rather than going into my own building, I just
waited and waited and waited and waited and waited for hours.
Simple someone came and let me in because I was

(25:01):
too afraid. And again, I'm someone who is who is privileged.
I have a situations where I'm sitting on my own
stoop and someone who does not even live there will
walk by and be like, can you not sit on
this stoop? And I'll say, oh, I live in the
building to you and they're like, no, I live in
the neighborhood, and I say, well, I'm I live so again,

(25:23):
minor business. Now, I think that it's about who is
allowed to exist in public spaces. And I just feel
that so acutely living in gentrified neighborhoods, especially, And it's
like no surprise to me that this charcoal grill business
happened in Oakland because Oakland is a rapidly gentrifying neighborhood.
And I think that, you know, people if they see

(25:44):
black folks having a good time, turning up, being loud,
all of that can often signal something that's not supposed
to happen is happening. And what's also very ironic is
that a lot of these neighborhoods are places where black
folks have historically lives. Like in Brooklyn, I lived on
the app to the Puerto Ricos, and like like when
they had the Puerto Rican parade, it was very very
loud and festive, and people would move in and call

(26:06):
the police, and it's like you moved onto the avenue
of the Puerto Ricos on days are important to Puerto
Rican heritage. Of course they are going to be loud.
It's like moving to the beach if you don't want
to see sand and do not get it, like why
are you calling them? Like why did you move here?
I will never understand it. But I think it's about
policing public space. Yeah, so let's take a quick break

(26:28):
and talk more about why the subsets be so much
sander back, thank you, sponsor. So Annie, we feel like
I've been ranting this whole time. I think that what
we need in this situation is just a rethinking of

(26:52):
how we deal with interpersonal problems in public. I think
we have to train people to not call nine on
one for every little thing. I think we have to
trade people that people of color, marginalized people are allowed
to exist in public. I'm going to need to have
a real conversation about what it means and the consequences

(27:12):
for calling one on one to report something that's not
a violent or an emergency. And I think that this
is the time. I think that we are at a
critical moment where we've had all of these instances of
you know they called the police for this, call the
police for that. I think we have to have a
national dialogue about what this means, because something's up, you know,
this is this is not okay. Yeah, I completely agree,

(27:34):
and I think that that is a really great idea
of BRIGID. I think that there is a lot of
I don't know if it's confusion. I think people don't
understand what what constitutes when they should call. We don't
really get properly trained on it. You just know, calling
an emergency. So maybe having a dialogue of when you

(27:55):
do it, here's the consequences of what happens when you
do it, Here's all of these other issues that surround it.
And I think it could be even expounded upon beyond that,
because I mean, I'm a very privileged person, but I
honestly don't know how to handle the police. A lot
of times I've been in I've been in situations where

(28:16):
I've just had no idea what my rights were. I
don't know. So starting with this, yes, I think we
should have a conversation when do you call nine one
one and what does it mean? I think that's so
so important. It's actually an activist named Aaron Rose, who
was sort of doing just that. Aaron actually created a
public resource called what to do instead of Calling the police?

(28:37):
So in that resource, he writes, so, what do you
do when you see harm being done, when you worry
for your safety, when you feel your rights are being violated?
What do you do instead of calling the police? How
do you keep yourself safe without seeking protection from a
system whose deep bault is still surveillance and a rature
of others? He says, we start by shifting our perspective.
We start by learning about the racist history of the police.

(28:59):
We start by saying that an alternative to the system
should exist. We start by pausing before we downline on one.
We start by making a different choice where we can.
We start by getting to know our neighbors and asking
them to be part of this process. And it's a
great place to start. I mean, I'm not saying never
call nine on one, but I am saying it's okay
to rethink how nine to one one is, how we're

(29:22):
using it, And clearly a lot of people are out
there are using it incorrectly. For a lot of people,
it could be life and death. Right In the instance
that I talked about earlier, with the father who was
walking his son and a stroller. He writes that if
it was a different kind of police officer that showed up,
that situation could have gone terribly bad for him. We
got to be mindful of that, and that's it sucks

(29:44):
that that it's on us to have to figure out,
but it is. You know. I wish it wasn't the case,
but it is. And I think not acknowledging that reality
is not doing anybody any favors. Yeah. Absolutely, And it's
really easy to just ask yourself before you dial nine
to one on one, especially like if you have enough time,
if it's not that urgent, it's easy to ask yourself,

(30:05):
why am I doing this? What else could I do? Yeah?
I mean it's such a simple step. Now what else
could I do? I think for so many issues, just
taking a beat, taking a breath is important. I feel
this in myself because I have a lot of I'm
an impulsive person and I'm trying to teach myself that
in situations where I want to act impulsively, what if

(30:27):
I just took a minute and thought it through. And
I think I think we could all use a dose
of that, you know, and you don't want it to
be a split second choice that you made to call
nine on one ends with someone dead and that shouldn't
be on you to grapple with. But that's the reality.
I mean, look at those stats that we started the
show with. That's the reality. Yeah, I I don't know.

(30:51):
I'm just this to me is so it doesn't make
any sense to me. And I'm personally a person that's
terrified of phone one. I won't do anything to avoid
talking on the phone, so things like seamless and postmade.
I had to call the dentist today and it was
like such a stressful thing and like calling nine one one.

(31:16):
The times I've done it has been like I'm shaking
having to like answer these questions. And for me, it's
mostly been reporting car accidents that I saw, especially in
the South when snow hits, we have very bad We
have a lot of car accidents. I just can't imagine
why you would go to that right away that we

(31:39):
need to move away from that, and yeah, have a
national conversation, even if you're someone who is saying listen,
the reason why I call the police for these situations
is because I care about law and order and I
want to have a community that is free of crime,
free of even low level crime. I can understand that.

(31:59):
But even when police officers are complaining, even police officers
are saying, you are making our job more difficult. Yeah.
A police officer started a thread that went viral on Reddit,
complaining that someone called nine to one one to report quote,
it was two black males who were jumps starting a
cart and nine thirty in the morning. That was it.
Nothing else. Someone called it in people, people, people. If

(32:20):
you're going to be a racist, stereotypical jerk, keep it
to yourself. Another said someone called nine to one one
to report someone fishing at a community pond. He continued,
once I arrive, I see a middle aged black man
fishing in the pond. He looks over when I pull
up and immediately approaches me, he said. Let me guess
my racist neighbors called again, saying that I didn't live here.

(32:42):
A former nine one one dispatcher said that lots of
people rang in to report a suspicious person, and when
asked for clarification as to what was suspicious about the individual,
most would mumble, stumble, or even whisper he or she's
black or Muslim. Looking this person added, ma'am, it's not
illegal to be black or Muslim or Mexican, et cetera.

(33:03):
Usually worked. I mean, when you have law enforcement officials
coming out with little ways of telling people, Hey, you're
being racist by calling that one right now, I should
tell you all you need to know it should And yeah,
if you are interested in making your community safer, wasting
the time of law enforcement officials, it does not sound

(33:25):
like is the way to do that. No, I would
say that is the opposite of what you should be doing.
I agree, and I want to talk more about some
different solutions to how they can sort of tackled this
problem together after this quick break and we're back, Thank

(33:49):
you sponsor. So, somebody that ill MT be thinking, if
we're trying to call the police only when in times
of actual emergencies, what does that look like? Well, according
to Aaron Rose that activists we talked about earlier, he
says that first of all, you should be getting to
know your neighbors. He writes, many situations that you might
feel compelled to call the police can be resolved by
knowing your neighbors. Knock on people's door, leave a note

(34:11):
with your number, have a conversation. Are we to talk
to each other before calling nine on one. This is
particularly helpful for things like loud music, smoke, or mental
health issues. I think that's really important, particularly as you
know our space has become more gentrified. When you move
into a place, I think it's important to make a
good faith effort to get to know folks. And you know,

(34:32):
if you don't get to know your neighbors, like, how
do you know what's going on in your community? And so,
I think just starting there, starting with having a conversation
with the people who you live around. So, you know,
like so and so lives here, so and so lives here,
So and so lives here. Like if so and so
is playing loud of music, I won't just call nine
one one. I'll go over and tell them to ask
them to stop. If so and so is blowing smoke

(34:53):
and my and it's you know, smelling at my apartment,
I'll come down and have a conversation with them. I
won't just summon nine to one one to do this
for me. I can handle this as an adult. Yeah,
And also I would add have that conversation as an adult.
Do not go yelling in someone's face. It always bothers
me when people wait, and I understand that impulse absolutely,

(35:16):
Like you're angry, you want to act on it now,
But it's better for everyone if you can take that breath,
take that beat, and just be an adult about it,
have a conversation, don't go yelling in someone's face, if
at all, if you can help it at all. Some
situations weren't it, but generally for things, smaller things, I

(35:37):
would say, try to try to keep your cool. And
also if you're someone like me that's very I'm one
of those weird people that's both very outgoing and very shy.
So when I moved into my new neighborhood, I got
to know everyone in my building by name. But that
was it. But I'm not going to call anybody. I'm
not going to call police on anybody. I didn't make

(35:59):
the effort. And if there's ever an issue, I'll go
make the effort, you know what I mean. Yeah, but
if you are a person who perhaps is a little worrier,
you're more prone to calling the police or like just
I don't want to say nosy, but almost nosy. Just
if you're on the body, a busy body. Yeah, if
you're on the other side of the spectrum than me.

(36:19):
Then yes, take that effort and get to know people,
and hopefully it'll be an enjoyable experience. I mean, hopefully
you'll make friends and get to know folks. Yeah, definitely,
I'm such an advocate of that. You know, I'm I
am not a busy but I'm a busybody in some ways, right.
I love, I love my community. If you spend any
time talking to me, you will know that nothing. There's

(36:41):
something I love more than where I live in DC.
And I love the youth of my community. I love
the elderly folks. I love living in a diverse, exciting,
multifaceted place. It's I love it. I go to all
the community events. It's my It's I really rep hard
for where I live and I want my community need
to be safe and healthy, just like anybody else. But

(37:02):
that does not mean calling up police all the time.
What that means is getting some of my neighbors talking
to people, you know, saying hello to people when I
see them in the street. I've often thought that when
people move into communities with the one that I live in,
the inclination can be to not meet anybody because you
don't know them, and they've lived here forever and they're
that weird old black woman upstairs or whatever, and that

(37:25):
I get that inclination, but it is absolutely incorrect. I
remember once living someplace where we had a package thief
who would steal packages. And there was a very very
old woman who was a shut in who you could
she would she would collect your packages that you were
basically nice to her. And somebody who lived in my
building they were like, well, you know this neighborhood, we

(37:46):
can't even get our packages delivered. She should get all
the packages for the whole building. And I was like, oh, well,
I shovel her walk when it snows because she can't
do it, and I bring her, you know, her groceries
sometimes when she needs to do. You and I and
like I smile at her and say hello, do you
do those things? And he was like no, And I thought, oh,
so you want to be able to have the works

(38:06):
of writing in a community where everyone knows each other.
You don't want to do any of the work of
saying hello to her, you know, shoveling her walk, checking
in on her, getting the occasional quarter milkause she needs it.
You want her. It's her responsibility to make your stay
in this neighborhood nicer. You need to do nothing in
return for her. And he was like, well, when you

(38:26):
put it that way, I like to think that he's like,
shovels her walk every winter. Since then, I hope so too, Vegi. Yeah,
I mean, this is this is my thing. It's like,
the reason why I love where I live is because
of the people that live there and my neighbor My
neighborhood is full of a colorful cast of characters, and
I love every one of them. And I think that

(38:46):
we need to remember what it means to be a community,
and remember what it means to be a good neighbor,
and remember that it's okay to have interpersonal conflict, and
it's okay to use our words to solve that conflict.
Nobody else needs to if it's if it's not a
violent or emergency situation, you don't need to have somebody

(39:07):
else do it for you. You can do it yourself.
And I think that really it starts there. You know,
give it a try, Give it a try, Give it
a try. That's all I'm saying. So I'm saying, I'm
not saying never call the police. I'm not saying if
you feel threatened by someone, it is your duty to
go up to them and put your you know, if

(39:28):
you feel like you're putting your life on the line
to do that. I am not saying that. It's not
the takeaway. Yeah, all I am saying is that a
safer future is possible for everybody. And I truly, truly
believe that we can have a future where we are
so much less dependent on armed police. And that is
a little bit of a radical notion, but I think
that we could get there, and other communities are already

(39:51):
exploring different ways of you know, restorative justice and keeping
communities safer through community based programming. You know, wait where like,
if something happens, there is someone else to call that
is not the police, there is a community based solution
that can tackle it. And I think we should be
figuring out how we scale back from involving, frankly, people

(40:16):
with guns who seem to use them with impunity. I
think we should be figuring out ways of depending less
on them to sort out situations that really we have
the skills. I believe in us we have the skills
to tackle ourselves. And that's my plea. It sounds like
a beautiful world, and I believe we can do it too.

(40:39):
We can build this better, healthier community together. Let's do it.
Let's do it, sminthy listeners, Sorry, this episode was just
me my high horse. Really, I'm interested in knowing your solutions.
You have an idea of what we can do to
rely less on police. What do you think? What do
you think about this idea? If not calling nine one one?

(41:00):
Do you think these people who are calling nine one
one for every little thing are as absurd as I do?
Please let us know. I really want to know. Yes.
You can find us on Twitter at moms Stuff podcast
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you can always email us at mom Stuff at HowStuffWorks
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