August 3, 2015 • 60 mins
Chicks Who Script is a hilarious and insightful podcast focusing on women and the film industry. Screenwriters Lauren Schacher, Maggie F. Levin and Emily Blake talk with Cristen and Caroline about sexism, staying motivated and their own writer role models.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how stup
works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Caroline and I'm Kristen. And today on another episode of
podcast Summer Camp, or are Amazing talks with the podcasting
women this summer, we are talking with Lauren Shacker, Maggie Levin,
(00:26):
and Emily Blake of Chicks Who Script. Yeah. This Fearsome
threesome are a group of filmmakers and more specifically screenwriters
out in Hollywood. And we've talked about Hollywood and women
and gender and feminism so many times on the podcast, Caroline.
We've talked about women behind the camera, in front of
(00:46):
the camera, diversity representation, the importance of Hollywood not ghetto
izing women into romcom only territory. And these are three
women we were so excited to talk about because they
have boots on the ground experience with all of these
kinds of issues. Yeah, And it was actually really refreshing
(01:07):
to hear from them not only about their experiences and
how they got into this line of work and also
how to keep their motivation up and just keep writing,
but it was also so refreshing to hear that they
do think that things are slowly but surely getting better
for women in Hollywood, specifically screenwriters. Yeah, even in the
past few years, they've noticed how the tone of their
(01:29):
podcast Chicks Whose Script has become a little bit more positive.
They are still issues that we're going to talk about, UM,
and challenges for being a woman's screenwriter. UM. And a
woman who doesn't necessarily want to be a Hollywood starlette.
That's mind blowing to a lot of people in l
A and elsewhere. Um. But they had so many great insights.
(01:52):
And first I wanted to give a little bit of
a historical shout out Caroline to set the tone for
this episode. I discovered this morning a woman named June Mathis. Now,
have you ever heard of June Mathis? No, neither had I.
But she's a woman that we should absolutely know when
it comes to Hollywood history, because she was the very
(02:15):
first female executive in the industry, and she got her
start as a screenwriter because back in the Silent era
a lot of women were writing a lot of notable
screenplays at the time, and she ended up amassing one
four screenwriting and co writing credits to her name. So
(02:37):
go get her that she was obviously in she was
appointed head of MGM's script department, making her the first
ever executive and I think the highest paid executive at
the time. I bet she were snappy suits. She might
have one snappy suits from what I could tell thanks
to Google image. She had a short brown hair, and
(03:00):
she had a clever smile. Good. Yeah, it's good to
keep a smile on your face when you're a woman
in Hollywood. And not surprisingly, as a woman who has
over a hundred screenwriting credits, she had quite a way
with words. And not surprisingly as someone with over one
hundred film credits, she absolutely had a way with words.
So would you like to hear an inspirational quote to
kick off this interview with Chicks Who Script? Would I
(03:22):
need Pinterest content for later? So yes, please? Well, here
you go write it down, Caroline so June Mathis once said,
if you're vibrating on the right plane, you will inevitably
come in contact with others who can help you. It's
like tuning in on your radio. If you get the
right wavelength, you have your station. Oh I love that.
(03:44):
That is something Oprah would totally say, absolutely and something
that probably Maggie, Lauren and Emily of Chicks Who Script
would agree with because listeners, if you're someone who obviously
if you're an aspirational screenwriter, filmmaker, actor, anyone who is
interested in that industry, but also just someone curious about
(04:04):
what it takes to maintain self promotion and motivation when
the gender odds might seem stacked against you, then this
is a conversation for you. You have tuned in, As
June Mathis would say, to the right station, that's right,
and so without further ado, let's hear it from Lauren,
Maggie and Emily Chicks Who's Script. Thanks so much for
(04:31):
talking to us today. Thanks for having us. We're super excited. Also,
you're welcome. So for listeners who haven't heard of you,
could you just introduce yourselves and also introduce the podcast absolutely.
Um my name is Maggie Levin, I'm Lauren Shacker on
(04:52):
Emily Blake and you'll hear that a lot of the podcast. Yes,
together we are Chicksie Script, which is a podcast about
screenwriting and filmmaking. Um it's for everyone, but by women
and with a emphasis on women's perspective and representing women
(05:12):
well in cinema. Um, so we sort of talked about
the whole scope of movies and movie making from the
female perspective. Great, Well, just to continue a little bit
more getting to know you, because you all collectively do
so many things. Could you just talk about each of
your backgrounds and sort of the origin story of chicks?
(05:35):
Who script Why? Why started a podcast? Well, I'm Emily. UM.
I went to there's a very popular podcast in the
screenwriting world called um script Notes. It's run by John
Augustin Craig Mazin, and they did a love episode of
their show, which was a superhero spectacular. It was all
(05:57):
about superheroes and UM. So they had a lot of
Baldo guys on the stage, UM and one woman and
she probably said a little less than all the guys did.
I mean, she was great, but she didn't talk as much.
And that was the episode where Craig Mason started talking
about split Hulk and how she Hulk had only been
created as a character for the Hulk to sleep with,
(06:19):
which is not true even remotely. UM. And on top
of that, the only people who spoke who has questions
that Q and A were all guys. Women had gotten up.
But by the time all the guys finished talking, it
was too late, and the thing was over, so there
was barely any female representation during the night. And I
was complaining about that. Not necessarily Craig and John's fault,
but it happened. And I was talking about that, complaining
(06:42):
about that on Twitter, and Lauren commented about it, and
I was like, this is because you know, we all
listened to script Notes. It's a it's a popular podcast
for a reason. And and so I was just joining
in with Emily and being like, is there a podcast
where women talked about screenwriting? And is there anything where
women talk about screenwriting? Uh? And we couldn't think of
(07:05):
any and we were talking and all of a sudden,
people on Twitter We're just like, we'll listen, and we
were like what uh, And then we decided that, okay,
we were just going to do it, make a podcast,
and then we roped Maggie in and then it was
too late to turn back, so uh, the podcast just
(07:27):
we kind of just announced that we were doing it,
and we got our first guest, huge support from the community.
Oh yeah, because the screenwriting Twitter is a real thing.
It's a pretty tight knit community, some novices, some like
superheroes in the screenwriting world, and and yeah, people were
really responsive and supportive right off the bat, and like
(07:49):
I think, within a week of announcing we were doing
the podcast, I was on the phone with Nicole Pearlman,
who wrote Guardians of the Galaxy, and she was super
on board, and then we were off to the races.
Well that's amazing. What does screenwriting Twitter look like? And
did everybody did everybody immediately pile on when you said
(08:11):
you were doing this and and commit to listen? And
what was the excitement and the response? Like I think
it was, yeah, we we just happened to find a
niche that hadn't been filled before. Because as soon as
I mean as soon as I joined the conversation, it's true,
people people that we didn't know from all over the
world and people of some renown in Hollywood, We're all like, yeah,
(08:36):
there's a need for this. Um, we would love to listen.
And then it became pretty clear from early on, UM,
the sort of guest recommendation level was super high. From
the get go. It was like girls really wanted to
talk about screenwriting, and then people wanted to talk to
the girls about screenwriting. It was a cool thing. And
it's weird because trying to explain this to be two
(08:57):
friends of mine who are not screenwriters, Like, they're like, wait,
you know people on Twitter? Has that? Like you have
mutual friends on twit And yeah, screen running on Twitter
is actually pretty insulated world. Everybody kind of knows each other. Yeah. Well,
and if you think about it, screenwriting is a completely
isolated profession, right, So you've got all these people who
aren't used to being out talking to other people. In fact,
(09:18):
they aren't there sitting in their home office or like
studio office or wherever, just writing. And now they have
a chance to be communicating in public. It's like it's
it's sort of a happy accident and it's small enough
that we are in it. Yeah. Yes, well, and it
became a really I don't know, Twitter became a really
(09:39):
easy access place for screenwriters to give each other advice
and help each other through the various uh highs and
lows of this industry. Um, but it's it's pretty cool
the screenwriting Twitter click. It is something that we repeatedly
recommend to anybody who wants to get into screenwriting, is
that they at least get on Twitter for this community
(10:01):
because it's because it's so strong and informative and it's
a very supportive place to ask advice. Yeah, So did
Twitter influence y'all's friendship, your collective friendship? Or how did
you meet? I? R L offline? Lauren? Lauren and I
went to a theater conservatory together, um in New York,
(10:25):
a place called the Neighborhood Playhouse. So we were already
connected that way. Um. And then Emily and I knew
each other, I think from from Twitter initially, Yeah, and
us and then I walk Maggie's Talk. Yeah, and um,
you know when I joined in, I'm really lucky because
Lauren and Emily were already sort of these tenants of
(10:46):
the feminist screenwriting community, and they just tenants tenants. I
don't know what I'm trying to pillars that. Um, I'm
putting that on my resume. Community on Twitter. Yeah, so
(11:07):
um yeah, but the trust level was there with our
with our audience right away. It was pretty cool. Yeah.
And Lauren and I hadn't met until the day we
all three gots like in person, until the day all
three of us got together and whether our computers and
we're just like, okay, how do we make this happen?
Deciding whether or not to have a website, that's all them.
(11:28):
I was like, let's have a tumbler page. So this
was facilitated through Twitter. That's so cool. Yeah, Twitter and
dog walking, Yeah exactly. Um, well, you mentioned feminism and
I definitely want to get back to that, But first,
can you give our listeners just a quick glimpse into
(11:50):
sort of what a day in the life of a
screenwriters like, if there even is a day in the
life of a screenwriter. I know you mentioned, like, you know,
being locked away in a room solitary all day typing.
I think everybody's is different, really. I mean some people
like to go to coffee shops, some people like to
sit at their offices. Some people sit on their couches. Uh,
you know, you and a laptop, and that's that's the job.
(12:12):
So you can't do it anywhere. I mean the if
that's one thing we've taken away from the podcast, it
is that there there's a million different ways to go
at this, and you know, the as you start to
do this for money, then it becomes inclusive of a
lot of meetings, a lot of going to very fancy
(12:33):
buildings where they hand your water bottle and then you
talk about your awesome story and how excited you are
about it, and you hope that they get excited to um.
But yeah, there's there's coffee shop writers, there's pajamas writers. Uh,
it's all over the map. Some people write for very
long spans of time. Some people only write for like
an hour of time. Some people were at midnight. Some
people right, you know, keep regular business hours. Everybody's individual. Yeah,
(12:57):
writing is the only uh so sort of trend across
the board is that you have to be writing to
be a writer. Let's say you got to write all
day or as for as many hours as you can.
I think the thing I hear the most often is
uh work hours um or office hours rather so that
(13:17):
people studying certain hours in their day that they are
going to be writing just as if they had a
nine to five job, sort of to keep them streamlined.
But again that's not everybody. It's just something that I
have heard a lot. I hope I do that for
myself and get me too. Well. I'm really curious to
know what you do to stay motivated, whether it is
(13:41):
through just the writing process, kind of being in the
slog of getting that work down or pitching the work
self promoting. I mean, because these are sounds like this
is long term project management that is largely self directed. Yeah, definitely.
Um yeah. Well, in terms of staying motivated and staying inspired,
(14:04):
you know, it's tough. At different stages, it can become
incredibly challenging. You know, there's there's some stuff with projects
once they're once a project is sort of often running,
it has its own legs, then it gathers momentum. But
when you're starting from zero on a project, I mean
that is I'm going to keep coming back to Twitter.
That's one of the reasons why Twitter has been helpful
(14:24):
is because it is like a group of like accountability
buddies and people to keep you, um, moving forward. Um.
But also it's like you gotta, like any other area
of something that's art related. I think it's like if
you want to be an actor, director or a dance
or paint or whatever, you just have to really want
(14:47):
to do it, and that means getting up in the
morning and making sure that you do it. I think
it also really helps if you take control and do
some of your own stuff. All three of us have
done some of our own projects, and that makes such
a huge difference because if you of just if all
you do is right screenplay, send them out, wait for
someone to read them and get back to you, and
hope that someone likes it enough to hire you. That
(15:07):
gets really disheartening. That can take years and years. So
you've got to in order to stay excited about doing it,
to stay excited about the business and about your own creativity.
I think, go make a short film. Go, you know,
even if it's only a silly little YouTube video. Just
get something done that is within your control, so you're
not just sitting waiting for everybody all the time. Yeah.
(15:28):
I think that it's also as a writer, because you're
creating your own I mean, if you're starting out, you're
writing on specs, so you're creating your own work. Um,
if you're writing about things that are really important to you,
write really passion project is obviously the most common phrasing
(15:48):
for that. But if it's something that you have to tell,
a story that is coming forth from like the center
of your being, that that can push you forward. But
it's I mean, and that's what it That's how it
works for me personally. The screenwriting. I mean, I know
(16:09):
for actors there's the element of like the film industry
takes forever for everybody and for actors, you're going into
rooms and hoping somebody's going to say yes to you.
And screenwriting is the same way unless you're making your
own work. So just like what Emily said, if you
are just writing and selling your script, even if somebody
buys it, they don't have to make your movie. They
could honestly, a studio could buy your film so that
(16:31):
nobody else makes it so that they can make their
own version of that movie. Like, the only way to
have to get that feeling of I have control in
this industry is to write and to make your own work.
Yeah a lot. I mean, you know, the writer producer
thing is not it's not a new invention, but it
(16:51):
is becoming increasingly a more popular way to go because
because then you can have that satisfaction of seeing a
project through to come completion. And also, you know, there's
so much content out there, as I'm sure you're aware,
um to really make a splash these days and get noticed.
(17:12):
Having more than just the writing skill, being able to
see a project through is uh kind of It puts
you in a different class and it's helpful. I read
an article yesterday and you guys can all tell me
what you think about this. But I read a piece
by Josh Olson, who wrote History of Violence right and
(17:33):
he the piece was called I will not read your
Did you guys read that? So I guess this pisted
a lot of people off. But it's basically like, don't
go out to a professional three nighter and ask them
to read your script and then yell at them for
not doing it, like you don't understand what they're what
their life is like, and how busy they are. But
he says in that that one of the things that's
(17:55):
annoying about that question is that even if he says no,
and you find that to be discouraging, like then you
aren't a writer because you should not be able to
be discouraged out of writing if you are a writer,
because that's how badly you have to want to do this,
because it's exhausting. I know a guy who came out
who said, I'm gonna quit my job. I'm gonna spend
(18:17):
one year and then if I don't become a writer
by the end of that year, I'm going to go
back to back to work. And that is sort of ridiculous,
like the naivete of that. And guess what, it didn't
happen and the guy quit gave up writing. I mean,
if that's your if you give yourself one year to
become a writer, you're gonna quit writing, don't even start,
because that's the chances of that working out are so minimal.
(18:40):
And if your commitment level is that low, what's gonna
happen when you do get hired? Yeah, and you have
to do thirty rewrites? Yeah, that's correct in a month
with notes from forty people. Yeah. I think you know,
as we've learned again from the UM wide array of
guests we've had on our podcasts, most people who become
(19:04):
really really successful in this have been in it for
a long time and they've always had a very long
haul mentality about it. UM. It is definitely a marathon,
not a sprint. Did we sort of answer your question? Yeah, no, Caroline,
and are just sitting back listening fascinated. UM. And it's
reminding me as I'm hearing you'll talk about, especially that
(19:28):
conviction and the hard work and just throw of the
long road that you have to hope to get there.
I realized that I have seen either on screen or
read depictions of you know, the the convicted male screenwriter
who has this, you know, he has to write. This
is his passion. But then stereotypically, I don't know that
(19:49):
I've ever seen it portrayed as the female screenwriter. It's
always like, oh, of course, if she wants to go
to Hollywood, then she wants to be in front of
the camera, which is exactly how Hollywood looks at it
as well. I was told that when I moved out here. Uh,
someone told me, oh, you're pretty enough to be an actress.
(20:10):
It's funny, You're going to become a writer. That's the
end goal, like being an actress. Uh yeah, I think no,
it is. The The screenwriter is a typically stereotypically male character. Um,
and you know, we have Doug sort of deep to
(20:32):
find as many female screenwriters as we can to come
on the podcast. We actually anders white male thing like
the rule. Yeah, I feel like what any of my
white male friends are like, when am I going to
come on the podcast and like, well, dude, you're white.
You're dude, so you're gonna have to wait in line
because we parceled it out. Those don't and because there
(20:52):
are and you know, not that we don't love them.
Everyone's born how they're born. Man, but you know, there's
a lot of white male screenwriter dudes. You have to look,
But like that doesn't mean don't look, you know, coming around.
I gotta um just because the directing situation is sort
(21:13):
of similar to the screenwriting situation. UM. I got a
call the other day from somebody who works at a
pretty decent sized studio looking for a female director because
they quote didn't know any um and needed to find
one because everybody on the team had unanimously decided we
(21:33):
need a female director for this next thing, which is like,
great props to you, but literally you have your interns
calling their friends like you can't. You don't have the
resources to go out and find female directors. And it's
the same thing with female screenwriters. There's like ten everybody
knows that have made it through whatever barrier, and nobody's
(21:56):
making well, they're making a bit more of an effort now,
but they're not making enough of an effort to look
for those women who do exist. So I think it's
like things are coming out, Like there's this awesome thing
called the director List that somebody put together with the
Death Dream Martino created. It's now it has over nine
hundred working female directors listed on the director list it's
(22:19):
the director list dot com. And she like, I don't
know how many of those women are represented, but I
would I would guess like five percent. Yeah, the ratio
is really low, and women have been um And I'm
not saying that this is a universal rule. I understand
that they are exceptions, but I feel like a lot
(22:40):
of women have been sort of relegated to the to
the Indy area for years and years because because of
various complicated reasons, it's difficult to break in UM there.
The glass ceiling is a real thing, and it's wonderful
that we're it's part of our cultural conversation now trying
to pick this and trying to achieve parity. And the
(23:02):
more we can raise the profile of the large discrepancy
between a number of working female writers and working mail writers,
I think, I think the better it gets. But you know,
there's work to be done for sure. Well, So in
terms of women working on a lot of indie movies,
do you is that because they are helming these entire
(23:23):
projects themselves, like you talked about, you know, if you
want to get your yeah, and so you end up
finding um like the director and the writer, the same
person for the majority of these indie projects that we're
talking about. Yeah. You know, Kristen and I did an
episode on on women directors in Hollywood, and it seems
(23:44):
like there is a lot of attention on female filmmakers
as outsiders, kind of looking in and following Twitter and
following trend stories and stuff like that. Do you feel
like there is a similar amount of attention or enthusiasm
or curiosity city about female whether it's filmmakers but screenwriters
in particular in Hollywood or do you think that people
(24:05):
are just treating women like a trend. I think it's
amazing what's happened in the past year. Um, you know,
since we started the podcast, we you know, the first
couple episodes, I feel like we talked with a lot
more of a sense of despair. And this was less
than a year ago our first episode. Yeah, and and
things have have changed. The conversation has changed drastically in
(24:29):
the past year. I I don't know what the numbers
are like yet, but I do know that studios and
production companies big ones are actively seeking out women writers
to come in and pitch. Now, um, everyone all over
town is looking for female driven stuff. People are. It
seems to me from from my little corner that people
(24:51):
are taking notice. And also people are taking notice of
the of the dollars that women spend at the box office.
I mean fifty sha, we can, we can tear that
shreds all day. But it did amazing numbers with and
it was all women. Yeah, same with Pitch Perfect. And
I'm excited to go see Magic Mike this week. And
(25:13):
I follow a lot of like comic book movies and
superhero stuff, and uh, that's been interesting because you know,
when people were talking about the Wonder Woman movie, there
was a big clamor for the Wonder Woman movie to
be directed and were written by a woman, and people
complained about it, Like watch it didn't matter. But because
people complained and yelled and made such a fuss about it,
they did go out of their way to find a
(25:34):
female director. And that bled over when they went to
when now they're making the Captain Marvel movie and they
need absolutely certain that their writing team. They had one
writing team that was women, and when that writing team
didn't work out, they went out and found another female
writing team. Um, the same people who did Agent Carter,
which is ring So um there are already in the
Marvel family as well, but it's in that is a
(25:55):
field that has traditionally been just doo doo doo doo
doode everywhere, because how could a woman run an action movie?
It's impossible. I think it's going to be really telling
in the next year to see what actually was fruitful
this year, because it it does like not to be
the naysayer here, but it's it's incredibly exciting to hear
(26:18):
how many people are looking for female driven work, looking
for female writers, and looking for female directors right now.
Like that for sure has not happened before. It's new.
It's amazing. I have still noticed that it does feel
like this is the project that we're going to put
a woman on a little bit, you know, as opposed
to like I haven't heard very many reps talking about
(26:42):
I want to bring like five more female writers onto
my slate. I hear like there is interesting. People are
talking about it, and they're they're more aware of it,
that's for certain. It's like exacts cannot can no longer
say when men don't make movies that make money, Like
(27:02):
there's there's a a number of things that have now
been proven to be fact that are ridiculous that you
actually sound very like antiquated talking about forms. If you
go on that old tirade about how women can't make
movies that sell, but you know, we're not quite there yet.
(27:23):
I think Jill soloways it was either Jill or Gina
Davis who said that we would have to have only
female directed content for like seventy years to achieve parody
something like that. I'm probably butchering that, but you get
the picture. So what would you say then to the
(27:44):
people who go, what does it matter if a woman
writes the screenplay or not? Um, Well, aside from employing women,
I mean it's that question of do women tell story
is differently, Well, they certainly hire more women. That's proven
that if you have a woman helming a project, it
(28:07):
is way more likely to have more women employees. In general.
I always use the cat the Miss Marvel example. UM.
That's like my go to answer to this kind of
question is in comic books. It's it's like ninety percent
of white dudes, just like every other form of entertainment. UM.
In the last year, I have to you, I don't
(28:27):
remember when it started, but they started a new Miss
Marvel and Miss Marvel used to be a leggy, blonde
woman who is now Captain Marvel. Um. The new Miss
Marvel is a Pakistani teenager in New Jersey, and reading
that comic book is a breath of fresh air because
it's not the same white guy who's you know, handsome
and Kendall. Like, it's not the same. Not that I
(28:49):
don't love Captain America, but it's not the same guy
you see in every other comic book. Miss Marvel is
amazing because you're like, oh, look a story about someone
I don't see in every single other book. So I
think that what women can bring to it, and minorities
as well, is just a different perspective. It's not that
we write necessarily differently. It's not any any question of talent.
(29:11):
It's just getting a new voice that's got experiences that
are different in a culture that's different. It's really nice
to see. So it's not that you know, people who
fall into the white male category can't tell incredible stories.
I know many of my favorite writer writers fall into
that category. Um, but yeah, it's just about different perspectives.
(29:34):
Like our world, our culture is so shaped by storytelling,
it's ridiculous and to deny that and to deny our
culture different perspectives, I think it's just detrimental to all
of us. And I yeah, the more the more diversity
we have in our entertainment, the more empowered the diverse
(29:58):
makeup of our society. Field. Um, I'm I'm particularly passionate
right now, Um because I tend to write like I
come from a like a music background, not like a
music background. I come from a music background, and so
I do tend to write a lot of stories about
rock stars and touring and music and bands. Right now,
I am actively trying to work on projects where my
(30:22):
characters are in stem careers and other things that you know.
I feel like we have a million and a half
Disney shows and YouTube channels that teach little girls that
it's wonderful to be a celebrity and to be a
rock star. And I would I would love to see
some shows come out in the next bunch of years
(30:42):
that show little girls how awesome it is to be
an anthropologist and a scientist and a doctor. Um. Sorry,
I just went off on a person I agree with that. Well,
we want to see those films too, By the way,
Let's make them one of the cool things about having
the podcast. One of the many cool things is that
(31:04):
before we go on the air, we very often get
to hear what the writers are actually working on but
they can't talk about yet. And uh, there will be
some of those projects they are coming just a little
bit of a little bit of good news. Um oh good,
we're talking about good news. So I'm immediately going to
(31:25):
steer the conversation to something negative. Um So, there was
a recent post over on people Say to Women Directors,
which is a really interesting but really distressing tumbler. Uh.
It called out a sexism in the script notes, particularly
in particular. Have any of you guys experienced anything like that,
(31:46):
especially with any strong female characters or female driven relationships
you might be creating. I. Um So, I'm in the
process of making my first feature film right now and
it is out. It is from the female perspective. The
majority of the cast is made up of women, young women,
(32:06):
and it is about you know, sexuality, young female sexuality
and a very uh big deal. Exact read the script
which was a very exciting um and told us in
a critical way, did we know that this movie was
(32:30):
very much from the female perspective, which I wish had
been in an email, because I would have printed it
and framed it and put it on my wall. Uh
you got it, you got it. Yes it is. But
that was like, you know, he's the head of a
(32:51):
huge company and he doesn't even realize that every movie
he's ever seen has been from the male perspective and
has the balls to like to say that two people
who are trying to do something else, Um, yeah, how
do you? How did you respond? How do you handle
a situation like that gracefully? I just kind of laughed.
(33:13):
I was like, this is great, thank you. Uh, that
is in fact the story. So if that's a negative,
then I think we're not going to work together. I've
had more frustrating experiences of late having other female creators
tell me that they're not feminists, which you know, that's
(33:37):
a that's a whole can of worms that we could
get into for days. But it's, uh, it's really frustrating
as things sort of as we're experiencing this see change hopefully,
um that I think women get mixed up about like that.
They think that, oh, if you're a feminist, that means
(33:58):
that you hate men and you don't want men to
be working as much as your you know, the thing
that they feel that they have to join the boys
club in order to be cool or really successful. I'm
very excited about seeing Magic Mike. Yeah, I'm hoping that
that mentality dies. I met as just like a small aside.
I was at a union. I won't say which guild,
(34:20):
but I was at one of the guilds at a
meeting and talking to one of the many people who
runs a women the women's section, and uh, I started,
I said something with the word feminist in it, and
she told me that she wasn't a feminist. And I
just think any sense like that, you know, what do
(34:41):
you say and that scenario, You're like, oh good, you're
the one fighting for me. Okay, yeah yeah. My My
problem in that regard is as an action writer, I
got told a lot early on, I can't write I
shouldn't write action films with female leads because no one
is going to buy them, no one is going to
(35:02):
watch them. They're not gonna make any money. But that
was before the Hunger Games and Gravity He and Divergent,
President and Divergent, and now there's been a ton of them,
and now those people have stopped telling me that. But
I've even had people in the business tell me that
I needed to write more things with white male leads
to prove that I could, because it was like, well,
if you only write women, how do we know you
(35:22):
can write men? Um? Yeah, and are they giving men
the same time? Hey, can you write us a femalely
just so we know you can do it? Because women
are like aliens, You guys, they're really hard. What was
the you don't have to say this if you don't
want to, and you don't have to, don't name the writer,
but the cars thing? Oh yeah, A specific a list
(35:45):
writer whose movie you have seen. I guarantee you um
makes a zillion dollars a year, he basically said to me.
Um Once, when I was talking about the screenwriting and
how there were fewer women in screenwriting professionally, he said, well,
the reason is that women just don't have what it
takes to sleep in cars. Uh. Men apparently are willing
(36:08):
to sacrifice and women aren't, was his points. Yeah, we're
really bad at sacrificing thing. You know, We're really a
selfish gender. I also know a ton of mouth screenwriters
sleeping in cars currently. Everybody lately, dude, probably never slept
in a car and right now for script, Yes, yeah,
(36:30):
he's very rich, oh man. Or maybe we're just better
at finding like comfortable places and generally taking care of ourselves.
Fun to be a pofecial screenwriter unless you've been homeless
first to And we're going to talk more with Chicksie
Script after a quick break. So is being a loud
(36:56):
and proud feminists as I as I see happening in
the snapshots that I do see of where when I
learn on screenwriting Twitter? Um, is it a liability at
all within the industry? Do you get branded in a
way or is it just more something that people unnecessarily
try to avoid. Well, none of us works in the
studio system. Yeah, so it's hard to it's really hard
(37:19):
to say. I don't know. Yeah again, like yeah, my
experience is relatively in terms of areas where that might happen,
My experience is pretty limited. Um, because I tend my
stuff tends to be if it's going into bigger hands,
people with money, they've they know my work and they
(37:40):
are like excited to be working with me. So, um,
you know, I've had We've watched some people who swing
sort of to the way other side of things, who
are like deeply using feminism, like maybe in a not
some way it get putting a respond and blacklisted. But
(38:04):
I don't think that that's I don't believe that that's
based on their feminism. I think they're based on general attitude. Yeah,
there's Um, did you guys see I wish I could
remember the name of the guy, interestingly enough who made
this little doc. But it's a video about the discrimination
against female directors in Hollywood. Yeah, Celluloid Feelings, thank you. Yeah,
(38:26):
and it is on Bloomberg. So I think I know
all of those women except for one. UM, and they
will tell you that they have I mean, and they
do in the video tell you that they've experienced blacklisting.
So there are definitely those who have experienced it, and
I think it's probably the women who have been the
most outspoken. But then we also know women who have
(38:50):
been on the podcast who say that they not that
they haven't experienced it. I think you'd be hard pressed
to find a woman in this industry who hasn't experienced sexism,
although maybe they don't realize they've experienced sexism. Um, there
was a writer who came on who I won't name,
but she said that she couldn't talk about the she
(39:15):
couldn't really talk about the treatment that she got because
she was worried that she would be kicked off the
studio job she had right um, but that it had
been very misogynistic and that she had just like you know,
thought to be strong about it and sort of push
her way through and not ruffled too many feathers and
that being yeah, there is still definitely an attitude of
(39:37):
that you need to smile and play nice, and even
if you are outspoken on various platforms, if you if
you don't really don't really wanted to come up when
you're going into big time meetings and stuff. So so yeah,
it's still I think a tricky area. There's an element
of that. Um. I just have an image of like
(39:57):
some male exact bringing you onto the project act and
they're like, oh, we just really needed a feminine perspective
on this. You know, you're great, cutie, and then take
a seat and you kind of just like, do you
criticize the person the exact for calling you cutie which
he would never say to a mail writer ever, or
(40:19):
a light your heart, sweetheart, giving you a hug. I've
heard a lot of times that, like, you know, you'll
go into the meeting as a woman and the executive
will try and give you a hug, which you would
never do. Also, but do you make a stink about
that or do you take the job because they have
made the effort to hire a woman and then on
the next job not work with that person. That's um,
(40:42):
I think that is the line that probably most people
are walking. And that's what's kind of achey is should
we be grateful that they've given us opportunities even though
we're women? Right? Yeah? Stuff, Yeah, well too start closing
things on high note because as obviously because we don't
(41:03):
want to, we don't want to discourage all of the
you know, the hopeful screenwriters listening. Most of our episodes
at least lately have been really positive. Like I mean,
I went home from our last recording and immediately launched
myself into two new projects and now I'm overloaded work
good job me, um. But it was because we're we
get inspired most of the time. Most of our stuff
(41:25):
is it started a little dark, but like you said,
I think that over the course of the last year
we now have really gotten into a positive place. Yeah,
we've seen a big evolution. I would be interested to
go back and actually listen, um in what the conversation
is like, and the and the opportunities for women are getting,
at least from where we stand noticeably larger, higher profile.
(41:49):
It is a pretty exciting time to be involved. So community,
if you are a lady thinking about writing right now
at the time, ye oh, I was just gonna ask
who y'all as role models are. Who are the women
in Hollywood or outside of Hollywood who you look to
to stay inspired and motivated? And yeah, Gina Davis, Diablo, Cody, Shanda,
(42:16):
Genji Cohen. Yeah, oh my god, Ava Verne like a beacon.
She's like she's killing it and it's so inspiring on
a daily basis. Christ And Smith who wrote Ten Things
I Hate About You and Legally Blonde awesome. Um, I
don't know, there's a there's a lot of people. I mean,
(42:37):
Jill Soloway, I mean, just watched that woman talk. If
you want to get inspired? Who else? Tina and we
could go on all day long. But that's great. I
mean that's great that you could go on all day long.
It would have been really kind of discouraging if you
(42:57):
listed two names only one lady. Yeah, uh no, there's
a lot of people out there who are Lindy Kaling,
Liz Merryweather. Oh yeah, yeah, a lot of amazing women working,
particularly in television. Um. There's a lot of female showrunners
who have who started with one show and now run Empire.
(43:19):
It's like Shonda, like Julie Pleck, Megan Allison, who is
playing it with bringing like really great content, Yeah, into
the world. Is there are there any projects coming up
from any of these women that you list as inspirations
that you're super excited about. There's one project coming up
(43:39):
from a runner we had on our show that we
can't talk about. Well, so to the answer is yes,
about We're just going to release an episode of us
screaming Alison's less oh Schroder, okay, so yeah, keep an
eye on Allison Schroder. Everybody wink wink Hardy here first book? Yeah,
well okay, so Um Dylan Meyer, who's a friend of
(44:02):
mine and she was on the podcast, Who's very cool
punk rock lady writer Um has a movie coming out
through Netflix called XO x O. UM, it's gonna be
really cool. Well, well, how about you guys, what's what's
up next for you guys. I'm making a film that
will hopefully shoot at the end of this summer called
(44:24):
The Bang Bang Girls, which is what I referred to earlier. Uh.
And that is the movie from the Female Perspective Prospective movie. UM.
I just directed a series that I did not write. UM.
Melanie w Recker wrote it. UM called The Friendless Five.
And it's a teen adventure series like a female Goonies. UM.
(44:47):
And that should be maybe really celine around November ish. UM,
but we're it might be coming out through some fancier platforms,
in which case I don't know when it will come out. UM.
And I'm really excited because my short film that I
finished in late is screening for the inaugural um Muff
(45:12):
Society event in San Francisco next week. UM. And it's
opening for Roman and Michell's high School Reunion, which is
one of my fairite movies about female friendship. UM. Yeah,
that's kind of what's going on with me. UM. I'm
lately am producing. I'm still right, but I'm determined to
write and produce a feature about a heavy set black
(45:35):
lesbian action movie. I mean, the movie is not a
heavy set black lesbian. The protagonist set lesbian because I
feel like that's the thing that no one would ever
ever do, and so I'm determined to do it. But
what mostly I'm producing right now? I may have a
short film about Dr Who fans and cost players that's
actually gonna screen at dragon Con Film Festival in September,
(45:59):
so a comic bookie, go see our movie, um, and
I will be there. Um. And I'm working on a
TV series, script TV series, a reality series, and another
friend short film, producing and writing depending on the project.
Just want swamped with paperwork today. Well, in the meantime,
where can people go to find more info about you?
(46:23):
And follow you on Twitter? If you would like them to?
We would love that man. We are at CWS podcast
on Twitter. Um, we are www dot chicks who script
dot com. You can also find us on the CWS
podcast handle on Instagram and Facebook, and we all have
individual twitters. Mine is at Bamboo Killer. Also my company
(46:46):
is called bear Trap Films. There's not a lot to
it right now, but that's what I'm just getting started.
I'm on Facebook and Twitter, uh, and I am at
Maggie Levin on Twitter and fun Ruiner Films dot com.
And I am at Lauren Shocker on Twitter. That's this
h two of them. And then y'all can like my
film on Facebook, The Bang Bang Girls. That's that's it.
(47:08):
We've got a lot of internet for You're so much.
It's so good. Um. Well, is there anything that we
did not ask you about or touch on that you
would like to add before we go? I would just
say for for all of your listeners, of course, if
you're thinking about writing, give it a give it a whirl, ma'am. Um.
(47:32):
And particularly if you are a girl, there's a lot
of resources out there to help you, um, especially if
you're well, even if you're not in the l A area,
there's so many mentorship programs that are coming up. There's
such an incredible community of female filmmakers that are really
trying to help each other out right now that if
(47:52):
you've even thought about dipping a toe in and we're
too afraid about beating the odds, uh, you know, if
you've got the mindset for it and you feel inspired
to tell stories, there's a lot of girls out there
who really want to help each other up the ladder. Definitely,
And if you're in Los Angeles or New York, there
are tons of like physical groups of women who meet
up on a regular basis. One is Film fatal Is,
(48:15):
although that's directors only. Obviously, women in film has its
own things, but there's also women in Moving Pictures out
here in l A, which is run by the amazing
Emily Best run Set and Dark. Um, if you're not
checking out what Emily Best He's doing, you should absolutely also,
I let's say people sometimes you guys may know this
because I answer all the emails people emails a lot
(48:36):
for advice as podcast at chicksu script dot com. Um,
if you want advice, I usually if I don't know
the answer, will point you to a place that will
give you the answer. So feel free to email us
and ask questions. And then the cool thing about living
in the Internet era is access. Uh. It's so easy
to self educate about how to be a screenwriter nowadays.
And there's so many people out there who are willing
(48:58):
to answer your questions just on the spot. So and
there are so many scripts that you can read, and
if you want to write, you should be read reading great.
And if you are a male writer and you're like,
how does this apply to me? No rape? No rape?
Please we're done with rape. But also if you, I mean,
(49:19):
just like, take one of those characters you've written as
a dude and just make it a woman. It's not
men and women aren't that different. In fact, you might
get a really interesting perspective out of that character because
you probably wrote that character as yourself, and now it
could be a woman, and you could really be helping
some boys and girls who are going to be watching
your film one day. As I have a Yeah, one
(49:41):
of my biggest issues is background characters being women. A
lot of times, if you need a doctor or a mechanic,
it's always a dude. Secondary characters. Every character in a
lot of movies, every character who is a woman is
the only woman because she has to be she's a
white or mother or girlfriend or whatever. Make good, just
a random character woman who doesn't have to be. Yeah,
(50:02):
and I also, gosh, this is a lot. Sorry they
talk forever, guys. I think I think it's also important
to note that, as much as we are deeply craving
strong female characters, not every woman in your script has
to be a super ninja genius exactly. Women can very stupid,
(50:24):
just as much as they can be brilliant. Guys. Women
can be guys and bad guys. Women can be all
of the things. In fact, did you know women are
fifty percent of the world's popular than wait what hold on,
it's mind blowing. You heard it here first, you guys. Well,
(50:50):
thanks again so much to Lauren, Emily and Maggie for
taking the time to talk with us. Caroline, I don't
know about you, but I feel like I have some
insider knowledge on Hollywood now that I didn't have before,
and also on screenwriting Twitter. I know, I think I'm
going to start lurking. Yeah, might as well, just to
(51:10):
just to see what's going on. Let's just you know,
lark maybe tweeter thing too. It would also be nice
to to get a perspective on things that are happening
in Hollywood and in the film industry that aren't just
like weird celebrity feuds, things that are actually a little
more interesting to read about well, And it's it's so
informative to know what's going on at this background knowledge
(51:31):
level to help all of these headlines that we do
see about just women in Hollywood in general, pay gaps, representation,
female ghostbusters, etcetera. It's helpful to note what is really happening,
especially when you aren't necessarily uh, super top dog a lister. Yeah,
(51:52):
and I mean I think plenty of the of the
perspective that they gave is helpful to people, whether you
want to be in screenwriting or not, especially the stuff
about you know, they mentioned that guy who up and
quit his job and said, I'm going to give writing
a year. I'm just gonna try it for a year
and if it doesn't work out, then I'm going back
to my day job. And of course when it didn't
work out and he goes back to his day job, um,
(52:14):
it was like he almost set himself up for failure.
And I think that's a great story for really anyone
who wants to give any dream a shot, that you
have to sort of give yourself a little bit more
credit and a little bit more time. Yeah, maybe you
don't put a time limit on your in your dream. Yeah,
I'll be sure. Friends to head over to Chicks who
Script dot com to learn more about Maggie, Emily, and
(52:37):
Lauren and also of course listen to their podcasts, and
you can find links to their website to where you
can listen to the podcast and also to all of
their twitters on this podcast post at stuff mom never
told you dot com and we'd also love to hear
from you. Was this an inspirational conversation for anyone listening.
(52:57):
I know that we have some filmmakers and screenwriters in
our audience, so we would love to hear from you.
Mom Stuff at how stuff Works dot com is our
email address. You can also tweet us at mom Stuff
podcast or messages on Facebook and quickly. I just want
to give a shout out to all of the fantastic
podcasters who talked to us this summer for our hashtag
(53:21):
podcasting women and Brian Sofie Ferries. It's been a blast
really getting to know some other people who are talking
to the Internet audio waves like we are. And we've
got a couple of messages to share with you right now. Well,
(53:44):
I have a letter here from Christie in regards to
our female urination Device episode. Uh, it's pretty technical. She's
got some advice for how to use them, she says. Hi, ladies,
I'm a PhD student in the biological science is I've
been listening to your podcast for several years now while
working in the lab. Thanks for making such an informative
(54:05):
and amusing podcast. It's helped me through many hours of
tedious experiments. Well you're welcome, Christie, thanks for taking us along.
So anyway, she says, when I heard the FUD podcast,
I was super excited, and you know, I finally had
a good excuse to write in. As you mentioned several
times during your show, floods are great for camping. I
purchased one a few months ago for a five day
backpacking trip. I decided to take along of FUD for
(54:27):
several reasons. First, I did not want to carry toilet
paper with me. Second, I didn't want to expose my
rear ind to mosquito and took bites. Third, I find
it difficult to keep splashes away from my shoes when
popping a squat. I settled on the Shewy brand because
it had an extension tube and a carrying case. Since
I was wearing the same pant for five days, I
didn't want any splashes on it or my hiking boots.
(54:49):
The extension tube was really helpful with this. The carrying
case allowed me to stash the FUD in an exterior,
easy access pocket without worrying the guys on the trip
seeing it. Okay, now, of the good part. I had
the fud a few weeks before we left for the trip.
I practiced in the shower the first time, and that
was quite easy. The following few days, I used the
food each time I urinated at home and stood over
the toilet. The first few times I was standing, I
(55:11):
still pulled my garments to my knees. After getting the
knack of aiming at the toilet, I needed to practice
while wearing my hiking gear. So the first time using
the FUD while wearing my hiking pant is where this
story gets amusingly embarrassing. Imagining this is how I would
use the food out in the woods. I did the
following unbuttoned and unzipped the fly, but leave the pant
at waist level, stand above the toilet, was slightly bit knees,
(55:33):
position the FUD against my body, and think of waterfalls.
I'd used the fud successfully half a dozen times already
without issue, but wearing my hiking pant while using the
FUD caused me to hold it at a slightly backward
angle thanks to gravity. My YearIn did not run down
the funnel, but down my legs. So here I am
a twentysomething early career professional having ped my panties. Luckily,
(55:53):
my husband was not yet home and I didn't have
to admit to him my mess. Needless to say, I
had to spend the next half hour mopping up the
bathroom and doing laundry. I did learn from the incident
of the material of my pants pretty stiff. I still
had to shimmy dan while using the fud, but my
rear end stays covered by my underwear and it's just
pushed to the side while using the FUD. I haven't
(56:14):
told anyone this yet, but if you want to share
my funny story on your podcast, that's fine. Keep up
the great work. You ladies are fantastic. And she has
a ps. She says, I like to say pant Stacy
London style, and that's a pet peeve of one of you, right,
And I think that hearkens back to an old episode
for like a long ago episode, where I'm pretty sure
(56:34):
I was the one who said that pant. The use
of the word pant irks me. Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm in
the camp of if Stacy London says it, it's good
enough for me. God, I just love her. She has
my aspirational gray streak. It's a it's a great streak.
It's a great gray streak. All minds coming into my
side burns. What the heck that's also distinguished? This? Yeah, great,
(56:57):
great chops. Awesome. Well thanks Christy. So I have a
letter here from Beth actually about a stuff I'm never
told you YouTube video that recently came out, in which
I write an email from a fella who thinks I
look horrible with makeup on. And this is something that
will happen. If you spend enough time putting your face
(57:18):
with makeup on the internet, you will get lots of
guys um thinking they're being kind and telling you that
you don't need makeup. So, Beth Rights, I really enjoyed
your latest video addressing men who criticize women pouring makeup.
As someone who considers makeup a bit of a hobby,
I find it really startling to see what feels like
a large amount of men and probably women, to feeling
the need to criticize not only you, but many women
(57:40):
on YouTube in particular for wearing makeup. I subscribe to
a number of beauty bloggers, and I can't imagine how
hurtful it must be to these women and men who
are trained and professional makeup artists to be told how
they look ugly or weird with makeup. Interesting enough, a
number of these women also seem to be criticized when
they appear bare faced as well. Yes, in fact, that
(58:01):
does happen. So apparently, for as many people out there
that hate honest ladies for having makeup on, there are
just as many willing to rip into us for going natural. Personally,
I think spending that extra time on myself both in
the morning and in the evening to remove my makeup
has really helped boost my overall self confidence and body image.
(58:21):
That time of the day is mine, no one is
there to bother me, and I feel like I can
really just be alone with myself, literally staring myself in
the face and taking the time to appreciate how I
look with and without makeup. For me, it's like my
version of meditation and my time to give myself a
pep talk and work through any negative feelings I might
have about myself. For those that don't wear makeup or
(58:41):
don't get what the big deal is, I liken this
to exercise. So many people seem to accuse those of
us that wear makeup of doing it for other people,
even if we insist we do it for ourselves. The
same is true for exercise. You could tell me you
love the rush of endorphins, the health benefits, or whatever,
but I could turn around and say you do it
to look good to other people. And there is certainly
(59:02):
some truth in that, just as there isn't wearing makeup.
Who hasn't hit the gym a little harder when someone
turned you down for a date. You might do it
for yourself, but maybe deep inside you also hope you'll
look good to those around you. But at the end
of the day, it's not about your outward appearance, and
there's always gonna be someone out there detracting from what
you look like, whether it's because you're too thin, too fat,
too made up, to plain, et cetera. But to me,
(59:24):
if you feel good, you'll look good, because the real
you is there when you feel your best makeup or
no makeup, or at least I like to think so
so thank you so much, Beth. I agree with your
stance on makeup, and she says, ps, I happen to
think red lipstick really suits you. So thank you, Beth,
(59:46):
and my lipstick thanks you too. And if you have
letters to send our way Mom step at house setworks
dot com is our email address and for links all
of our social media as well as all of our blogs, videos,
and podcasts, including this one with links so you can
go to check out Chicks who Script. Head on over
to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com. Little more
(01:00:09):
on this and thousands of other topics is that how
stuff Works dot com
Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how stup
works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Caroline and I'm Kristen. And today on another episode of
podcast Summer Camp, or are Amazing talks with the podcasting
women this summer, we are talking with Lauren Shacker, Maggie Levin,
(00:26):
and Emily Blake of Chicks Who Script. Yeah. This Fearsome
threesome are a group of filmmakers and more specifically screenwriters
out in Hollywood. And we've talked about Hollywood and women
and gender and feminism so many times on the podcast, Caroline.
We've talked about women behind the camera, in front of
(00:46):
the camera, diversity representation, the importance of Hollywood not ghetto
izing women into romcom only territory. And these are three
women we were so excited to talk about because they
have boots on the ground experience with all of these
kinds of issues. Yeah, And it was actually really refreshing
(01:07):
to hear from them not only about their experiences and
how they got into this line of work and also
how to keep their motivation up and just keep writing,
but it was also so refreshing to hear that they
do think that things are slowly but surely getting better
for women in Hollywood, specifically screenwriters. Yeah, even in the
past few years, they've noticed how the tone of their
(01:29):
podcast Chicks Whose Script has become a little bit more positive.
They are still issues that we're going to talk about, UM,
and challenges for being a woman's screenwriter. UM. And a
woman who doesn't necessarily want to be a Hollywood starlette.
That's mind blowing to a lot of people in l
A and elsewhere. Um. But they had so many great insights.
(01:52):
And first I wanted to give a little bit of
a historical shout out Caroline to set the tone for
this episode. I discovered this morning a woman named June Mathis. Now,
have you ever heard of June Mathis? No, neither had I.
But she's a woman that we should absolutely know when
it comes to Hollywood history, because she was the very
(02:15):
first female executive in the industry, and she got her
start as a screenwriter because back in the Silent era
a lot of women were writing a lot of notable
screenplays at the time, and she ended up amassing one
four screenwriting and co writing credits to her name. So
(02:37):
go get her that she was obviously in she was
appointed head of MGM's script department, making her the first
ever executive and I think the highest paid executive at
the time. I bet she were snappy suits. She might
have one snappy suits from what I could tell thanks
to Google image. She had a short brown hair, and
(03:00):
she had a clever smile. Good. Yeah, it's good to
keep a smile on your face when you're a woman
in Hollywood. And not surprisingly, as a woman who has
over a hundred screenwriting credits, she had quite a way
with words. And not surprisingly as someone with over one
hundred film credits, she absolutely had a way with words.
So would you like to hear an inspirational quote to
kick off this interview with Chicks Who Script? Would I
(03:22):
need Pinterest content for later? So yes, please? Well, here
you go write it down, Caroline so June Mathis once said,
if you're vibrating on the right plane, you will inevitably
come in contact with others who can help you. It's
like tuning in on your radio. If you get the
right wavelength, you have your station. Oh I love that.
(03:44):
That is something Oprah would totally say, absolutely and something
that probably Maggie, Lauren and Emily of Chicks Who Script
would agree with because listeners, if you're someone who obviously
if you're an aspirational screenwriter, filmmaker, actor, anyone who is
interested in that industry, but also just someone curious about
(04:04):
what it takes to maintain self promotion and motivation when
the gender odds might seem stacked against you, then this
is a conversation for you. You have tuned in, As
June Mathis would say, to the right station, that's right,
and so without further ado, let's hear it from Lauren,
Maggie and Emily Chicks Who's Script. Thanks so much for
(04:31):
talking to us today. Thanks for having us. We're super excited. Also,
you're welcome. So for listeners who haven't heard of you,
could you just introduce yourselves and also introduce the podcast absolutely.
Um my name is Maggie Levin, I'm Lauren Shacker on
(04:52):
Emily Blake and you'll hear that a lot of the podcast. Yes,
together we are Chicksie Script, which is a podcast about
screenwriting and filmmaking. Um it's for everyone, but by women
and with a emphasis on women's perspective and representing women
(05:12):
well in cinema. Um, so we sort of talked about
the whole scope of movies and movie making from the
female perspective. Great, Well, just to continue a little bit
more getting to know you, because you all collectively do
so many things. Could you just talk about each of
your backgrounds and sort of the origin story of chicks?
(05:35):
Who script Why? Why started a podcast? Well, I'm Emily. UM.
I went to there's a very popular podcast in the
screenwriting world called um script Notes. It's run by John
Augustin Craig Mazin, and they did a love episode of
their show, which was a superhero spectacular. It was all
(05:57):
about superheroes and UM. So they had a lot of
Baldo guys on the stage, UM and one woman and
she probably said a little less than all the guys did.
I mean, she was great, but she didn't talk as much.
And that was the episode where Craig Mason started talking
about split Hulk and how she Hulk had only been
created as a character for the Hulk to sleep with,
(06:19):
which is not true even remotely. UM. And on top
of that, the only people who spoke who has questions
that Q and A were all guys. Women had gotten up.
But by the time all the guys finished talking, it
was too late, and the thing was over, so there
was barely any female representation during the night. And I
was complaining about that. Not necessarily Craig and John's fault,
but it happened. And I was talking about that, complaining
(06:42):
about that on Twitter, and Lauren commented about it, and
I was like, this is because you know, we all
listened to script Notes. It's a it's a popular podcast
for a reason. And and so I was just joining
in with Emily and being like, is there a podcast
where women talked about screenwriting? And is there anything where
women talk about screenwriting? Uh? And we couldn't think of
(07:05):
any and we were talking and all of a sudden,
people on Twitter We're just like, we'll listen, and we
were like what uh, And then we decided that, okay,
we were just going to do it, make a podcast,
and then we roped Maggie in and then it was
too late to turn back, so uh, the podcast just
(07:27):
we kind of just announced that we were doing it,
and we got our first guest, huge support from the community.
Oh yeah, because the screenwriting Twitter is a real thing.
It's a pretty tight knit community, some novices, some like
superheroes in the screenwriting world, and and yeah, people were
really responsive and supportive right off the bat, and like
(07:49):
I think, within a week of announcing we were doing
the podcast, I was on the phone with Nicole Pearlman,
who wrote Guardians of the Galaxy, and she was super
on board, and then we were off to the races.
Well that's amazing. What does screenwriting Twitter look like? And
did everybody did everybody immediately pile on when you said
(08:11):
you were doing this and and commit to listen? And
what was the excitement and the response? Like I think
it was, yeah, we we just happened to find a
niche that hadn't been filled before. Because as soon as
I mean as soon as I joined the conversation, it's true,
people people that we didn't know from all over the
world and people of some renown in Hollywood, We're all like, yeah,
(08:36):
there's a need for this. Um, we would love to listen.
And then it became pretty clear from early on, UM,
the sort of guest recommendation level was super high. From
the get go. It was like girls really wanted to
talk about screenwriting, and then people wanted to talk to
the girls about screenwriting. It was a cool thing. And
it's weird because trying to explain this to be two
(08:57):
friends of mine who are not screenwriters, Like, they're like, wait,
you know people on Twitter? Has that? Like you have
mutual friends on twit And yeah, screen running on Twitter
is actually pretty insulated world. Everybody kind of knows each other. Yeah. Well,
and if you think about it, screenwriting is a completely
isolated profession, right, So you've got all these people who
aren't used to being out talking to other people. In fact,
(09:18):
they aren't there sitting in their home office or like
studio office or wherever, just writing. And now they have
a chance to be communicating in public. It's like it's
it's sort of a happy accident and it's small enough
that we are in it. Yeah. Yes, well, and it
became a really I don't know, Twitter became a really
(09:39):
easy access place for screenwriters to give each other advice
and help each other through the various uh highs and
lows of this industry. Um, but it's it's pretty cool
the screenwriting Twitter click. It is something that we repeatedly
recommend to anybody who wants to get into screenwriting, is
that they at least get on Twitter for this community
(10:01):
because it's because it's so strong and informative and it's
a very supportive place to ask advice. Yeah, So did
Twitter influence y'all's friendship, your collective friendship? Or how did
you meet? I? R L offline? Lauren? Lauren and I
went to a theater conservatory together, um in New York,
(10:25):
a place called the Neighborhood Playhouse. So we were already
connected that way. Um. And then Emily and I knew
each other, I think from from Twitter initially, Yeah, and
us and then I walk Maggie's Talk. Yeah, and um,
you know when I joined in, I'm really lucky because
Lauren and Emily were already sort of these tenants of
(10:46):
the feminist screenwriting community, and they just tenants tenants. I
don't know what I'm trying to pillars that. Um, I'm
putting that on my resume. Community on Twitter. Yeah, so
(11:07):
um yeah, but the trust level was there with our
with our audience right away. It was pretty cool. Yeah.
And Lauren and I hadn't met until the day we
all three gots like in person, until the day all
three of us got together and whether our computers and
we're just like, okay, how do we make this happen?
Deciding whether or not to have a website, that's all them.
(11:28):
I was like, let's have a tumbler page. So this
was facilitated through Twitter. That's so cool. Yeah, Twitter and
dog walking, Yeah exactly. Um, well, you mentioned feminism and
I definitely want to get back to that, But first,
can you give our listeners just a quick glimpse into
(11:50):
sort of what a day in the life of a
screenwriters like, if there even is a day in the
life of a screenwriter. I know you mentioned, like, you know,
being locked away in a room solitary all day typing.
I think everybody's is different, really. I mean some people
like to go to coffee shops, some people like to
sit at their offices. Some people sit on their couches. Uh,
you know, you and a laptop, and that's that's the job.
(12:12):
So you can't do it anywhere. I mean the if
that's one thing we've taken away from the podcast, it
is that there there's a million different ways to go
at this, and you know, the as you start to
do this for money, then it becomes inclusive of a
lot of meetings, a lot of going to very fancy
(12:33):
buildings where they hand your water bottle and then you
talk about your awesome story and how excited you are
about it, and you hope that they get excited to um.
But yeah, there's there's coffee shop writers, there's pajamas writers. Uh,
it's all over the map. Some people write for very
long spans of time. Some people only write for like
an hour of time. Some people were at midnight. Some
people right, you know, keep regular business hours. Everybody's individual. Yeah,
(12:57):
writing is the only uh so sort of trend across
the board is that you have to be writing to
be a writer. Let's say you got to write all
day or as for as many hours as you can.
I think the thing I hear the most often is
uh work hours um or office hours rather so that
(13:17):
people studying certain hours in their day that they are
going to be writing just as if they had a
nine to five job, sort of to keep them streamlined.
But again that's not everybody. It's just something that I
have heard a lot. I hope I do that for
myself and get me too. Well. I'm really curious to
know what you do to stay motivated, whether it is
(13:41):
through just the writing process, kind of being in the
slog of getting that work down or pitching the work
self promoting. I mean, because these are sounds like this
is long term project management that is largely self directed. Yeah, definitely.
Um yeah. Well, in terms of staying motivated and staying inspired,
(14:04):
you know, it's tough. At different stages, it can become
incredibly challenging. You know, there's there's some stuff with projects
once they're once a project is sort of often running,
it has its own legs, then it gathers momentum. But
when you're starting from zero on a project, I mean
that is I'm going to keep coming back to Twitter.
That's one of the reasons why Twitter has been helpful
(14:24):
is because it is like a group of like accountability
buddies and people to keep you, um, moving forward. Um.
But also it's like you gotta, like any other area
of something that's art related. I think it's like if
you want to be an actor, director or a dance
or paint or whatever, you just have to really want
(14:47):
to do it, and that means getting up in the
morning and making sure that you do it. I think
it also really helps if you take control and do
some of your own stuff. All three of us have
done some of our own projects, and that makes such
a huge difference because if you of just if all
you do is right screenplay, send them out, wait for
someone to read them and get back to you, and
hope that someone likes it enough to hire you. That
(15:07):
gets really disheartening. That can take years and years. So
you've got to in order to stay excited about doing it,
to stay excited about the business and about your own creativity.
I think, go make a short film. Go, you know,
even if it's only a silly little YouTube video. Just
get something done that is within your control, so you're
not just sitting waiting for everybody all the time. Yeah.
(15:28):
I think that it's also as a writer, because you're
creating your own I mean, if you're starting out, you're
writing on specs, so you're creating your own work. Um,
if you're writing about things that are really important to you,
write really passion project is obviously the most common phrasing
(15:48):
for that. But if it's something that you have to tell,
a story that is coming forth from like the center
of your being, that that can push you forward. But
it's I mean, and that's what it That's how it
works for me personally. The screenwriting. I mean, I know
(16:09):
for actors there's the element of like the film industry
takes forever for everybody and for actors, you're going into
rooms and hoping somebody's going to say yes to you.
And screenwriting is the same way unless you're making your
own work. So just like what Emily said, if you
are just writing and selling your script, even if somebody
buys it, they don't have to make your movie. They
could honestly, a studio could buy your film so that
(16:31):
nobody else makes it so that they can make their
own version of that movie. Like, the only way to
have to get that feeling of I have control in
this industry is to write and to make your own work.
Yeah a lot. I mean, you know, the writer producer
thing is not it's not a new invention, but it
(16:51):
is becoming increasingly a more popular way to go because
because then you can have that satisfaction of seeing a
project through to come completion. And also, you know, there's
so much content out there, as I'm sure you're aware,
um to really make a splash these days and get noticed.
(17:12):
Having more than just the writing skill, being able to
see a project through is uh kind of It puts
you in a different class and it's helpful. I read
an article yesterday and you guys can all tell me
what you think about this. But I read a piece
by Josh Olson, who wrote History of Violence right and
(17:33):
he the piece was called I will not read your
Did you guys read that? So I guess this pisted
a lot of people off. But it's basically like, don't
go out to a professional three nighter and ask them
to read your script and then yell at them for
not doing it, like you don't understand what they're what
their life is like, and how busy they are. But
he says in that that one of the things that's
(17:55):
annoying about that question is that even if he says no,
and you find that to be discouraging, like then you
aren't a writer because you should not be able to
be discouraged out of writing if you are a writer,
because that's how badly you have to want to do this,
because it's exhausting. I know a guy who came out
who said, I'm gonna quit my job. I'm gonna spend
(18:17):
one year and then if I don't become a writer
by the end of that year, I'm going to go
back to back to work. And that is sort of ridiculous,
like the naivete of that. And guess what, it didn't
happen and the guy quit gave up writing. I mean,
if that's your if you give yourself one year to
become a writer, you're gonna quit writing, don't even start,
because that's the chances of that working out are so minimal.
(18:40):
And if your commitment level is that low, what's gonna
happen when you do get hired? Yeah, and you have
to do thirty rewrites? Yeah, that's correct in a month
with notes from forty people. Yeah. I think you know,
as we've learned again from the UM wide array of
guests we've had on our podcasts, most people who become
(19:04):
really really successful in this have been in it for
a long time and they've always had a very long
haul mentality about it. UM. It is definitely a marathon,
not a sprint. Did we sort of answer your question? Yeah, no, Caroline,
and are just sitting back listening fascinated. UM. And it's
reminding me as I'm hearing you'll talk about, especially that
(19:28):
conviction and the hard work and just throw of the
long road that you have to hope to get there.
I realized that I have seen either on screen or
read depictions of you know, the the convicted male screenwriter
who has this, you know, he has to write. This
is his passion. But then stereotypically, I don't know that
(19:49):
I've ever seen it portrayed as the female screenwriter. It's
always like, oh, of course, if she wants to go
to Hollywood, then she wants to be in front of
the camera, which is exactly how Hollywood looks at it
as well. I was told that when I moved out here. Uh,
someone told me, oh, you're pretty enough to be an actress.
(20:10):
It's funny, You're going to become a writer. That's the
end goal, like being an actress. Uh yeah, I think no,
it is. The The screenwriter is a typically stereotypically male character. Um,
and you know, we have Doug sort of deep to
(20:32):
find as many female screenwriters as we can to come
on the podcast. We actually anders white male thing like
the rule. Yeah, I feel like what any of my
white male friends are like, when am I going to
come on the podcast and like, well, dude, you're white.
You're dude, so you're gonna have to wait in line
because we parceled it out. Those don't and because there
(20:52):
are and you know, not that we don't love them.
Everyone's born how they're born. Man, but you know, there's
a lot of white male screenwriter dudes. You have to look,
But like that doesn't mean don't look, you know, coming around.
I gotta um just because the directing situation is sort
(21:13):
of similar to the screenwriting situation. UM. I got a
call the other day from somebody who works at a
pretty decent sized studio looking for a female director because
they quote didn't know any um and needed to find
one because everybody on the team had unanimously decided we
(21:33):
need a female director for this next thing, which is like,
great props to you, but literally you have your interns
calling their friends like you can't. You don't have the
resources to go out and find female directors. And it's
the same thing with female screenwriters. There's like ten everybody
knows that have made it through whatever barrier, and nobody's
(21:56):
making well, they're making a bit more of an effort now,
but they're not making enough of an effort to look
for those women who do exist. So I think it's
like things are coming out, Like there's this awesome thing
called the director List that somebody put together with the
Death Dream Martino created. It's now it has over nine
hundred working female directors listed on the director list it's
(22:19):
the director list dot com. And she like, I don't
know how many of those women are represented, but I
would I would guess like five percent. Yeah, the ratio
is really low, and women have been um And I'm
not saying that this is a universal rule. I understand
that they are exceptions, but I feel like a lot
(22:40):
of women have been sort of relegated to the to
the Indy area for years and years because because of
various complicated reasons, it's difficult to break in UM there.
The glass ceiling is a real thing, and it's wonderful
that we're it's part of our cultural conversation now trying
to pick this and trying to achieve parity. And the
(23:02):
more we can raise the profile of the large discrepancy
between a number of working female writers and working mail writers,
I think, I think the better it gets. But you know,
there's work to be done for sure. Well, So in
terms of women working on a lot of indie movies,
do you is that because they are helming these entire
(23:23):
projects themselves, like you talked about, you know, if you
want to get your yeah, and so you end up
finding um like the director and the writer, the same
person for the majority of these indie projects that we're
talking about. Yeah. You know, Kristen and I did an
episode on on women directors in Hollywood, and it seems
(23:44):
like there is a lot of attention on female filmmakers
as outsiders, kind of looking in and following Twitter and
following trend stories and stuff like that. Do you feel
like there is a similar amount of attention or enthusiasm
or curiosity city about female whether it's filmmakers but screenwriters
in particular in Hollywood or do you think that people
(24:05):
are just treating women like a trend. I think it's
amazing what's happened in the past year. Um, you know,
since we started the podcast, we you know, the first
couple episodes, I feel like we talked with a lot
more of a sense of despair. And this was less
than a year ago our first episode. Yeah, and and
things have have changed. The conversation has changed drastically in
(24:29):
the past year. I I don't know what the numbers
are like yet, but I do know that studios and
production companies big ones are actively seeking out women writers
to come in and pitch. Now, um, everyone all over
town is looking for female driven stuff. People are. It
seems to me from from my little corner that people
(24:51):
are taking notice. And also people are taking notice of
the of the dollars that women spend at the box office.
I mean fifty sha, we can, we can tear that
shreds all day. But it did amazing numbers with and
it was all women. Yeah, same with Pitch Perfect. And
I'm excited to go see Magic Mike this week. And
(25:13):
I follow a lot of like comic book movies and
superhero stuff, and uh, that's been interesting because you know,
when people were talking about the Wonder Woman movie, there
was a big clamor for the Wonder Woman movie to
be directed and were written by a woman, and people
complained about it, Like watch it didn't matter. But because
people complained and yelled and made such a fuss about it,
they did go out of their way to find a
(25:34):
female director. And that bled over when they went to
when now they're making the Captain Marvel movie and they
need absolutely certain that their writing team. They had one
writing team that was women, and when that writing team
didn't work out, they went out and found another female
writing team. Um, the same people who did Agent Carter,
which is ring So um there are already in the
Marvel family as well, but it's in that is a
(25:55):
field that has traditionally been just doo doo doo doo
doode everywhere, because how could a woman run an action movie?
It's impossible. I think it's going to be really telling
in the next year to see what actually was fruitful
this year, because it it does like not to be
the naysayer here, but it's it's incredibly exciting to hear
(26:18):
how many people are looking for female driven work, looking
for female writers, and looking for female directors right now.
Like that for sure has not happened before. It's new.
It's amazing. I have still noticed that it does feel
like this is the project that we're going to put
a woman on a little bit, you know, as opposed
to like I haven't heard very many reps talking about
(26:42):
I want to bring like five more female writers onto
my slate. I hear like there is interesting. People are
talking about it, and they're they're more aware of it,
that's for certain. It's like exacts cannot can no longer
say when men don't make movies that make money, Like
(27:02):
there's there's a a number of things that have now
been proven to be fact that are ridiculous that you
actually sound very like antiquated talking about forms. If you
go on that old tirade about how women can't make
movies that sell, but you know, we're not quite there yet.
(27:23):
I think Jill soloways it was either Jill or Gina
Davis who said that we would have to have only
female directed content for like seventy years to achieve parody
something like that. I'm probably butchering that, but you get
the picture. So what would you say then to the
(27:44):
people who go, what does it matter if a woman
writes the screenplay or not? Um, Well, aside from employing women,
I mean it's that question of do women tell story
is differently, Well, they certainly hire more women. That's proven
that if you have a woman helming a project, it
(28:07):
is way more likely to have more women employees. In general.
I always use the cat the Miss Marvel example. UM.
That's like my go to answer to this kind of
question is in comic books. It's it's like ninety percent
of white dudes, just like every other form of entertainment. UM.
In the last year, I have to you, I don't
(28:27):
remember when it started, but they started a new Miss
Marvel and Miss Marvel used to be a leggy, blonde
woman who is now Captain Marvel. Um. The new Miss
Marvel is a Pakistani teenager in New Jersey, and reading
that comic book is a breath of fresh air because
it's not the same white guy who's you know, handsome
and Kendall. Like, it's not the same. Not that I
(28:49):
don't love Captain America, but it's not the same guy
you see in every other comic book. Miss Marvel is
amazing because you're like, oh, look a story about someone
I don't see in every single other book. So I
think that what women can bring to it, and minorities
as well, is just a different perspective. It's not that
we write necessarily differently. It's not any any question of talent.
(29:11):
It's just getting a new voice that's got experiences that
are different in a culture that's different. It's really nice
to see. So it's not that you know, people who
fall into the white male category can't tell incredible stories.
I know many of my favorite writer writers fall into
that category. Um, but yeah, it's just about different perspectives.
(29:34):
Like our world, our culture is so shaped by storytelling,
it's ridiculous and to deny that and to deny our
culture different perspectives, I think it's just detrimental to all
of us. And I yeah, the more the more diversity
we have in our entertainment, the more empowered the diverse
(29:58):
makeup of our society. Field. Um, I'm I'm particularly passionate
right now, Um because I tend to write like I
come from a like a music background, not like a
music background. I come from a music background, and so
I do tend to write a lot of stories about
rock stars and touring and music and bands. Right now,
I am actively trying to work on projects where my
(30:22):
characters are in stem careers and other things that you know.
I feel like we have a million and a half
Disney shows and YouTube channels that teach little girls that
it's wonderful to be a celebrity and to be a
rock star. And I would I would love to see
some shows come out in the next bunch of years
(30:42):
that show little girls how awesome it is to be
an anthropologist and a scientist and a doctor. Um. Sorry,
I just went off on a person I agree with that. Well,
we want to see those films too, By the way,
Let's make them one of the cool things about having
the podcast. One of the many cool things is that
(31:04):
before we go on the air, we very often get
to hear what the writers are actually working on but
they can't talk about yet. And uh, there will be
some of those projects they are coming just a little
bit of a little bit of good news. Um oh good,
we're talking about good news. So I'm immediately going to
(31:25):
steer the conversation to something negative. Um So, there was
a recent post over on people Say to Women Directors,
which is a really interesting but really distressing tumbler. Uh.
It called out a sexism in the script notes, particularly
in particular. Have any of you guys experienced anything like that,
(31:46):
especially with any strong female characters or female driven relationships
you might be creating. I. Um So, I'm in the
process of making my first feature film right now and
it is out. It is from the female perspective. The
majority of the cast is made up of women, young women,
(32:06):
and it is about you know, sexuality, young female sexuality
and a very uh big deal. Exact read the script
which was a very exciting um and told us in
a critical way, did we know that this movie was
(32:30):
very much from the female perspective, which I wish had
been in an email, because I would have printed it
and framed it and put it on my wall. Uh
you got it, you got it. Yes it is. But
that was like, you know, he's the head of a
(32:51):
huge company and he doesn't even realize that every movie
he's ever seen has been from the male perspective and
has the balls to like to say that two people
who are trying to do something else, Um, yeah, how
do you? How did you respond? How do you handle
a situation like that gracefully? I just kind of laughed.
(33:13):
I was like, this is great, thank you. Uh, that
is in fact the story. So if that's a negative,
then I think we're not going to work together. I've
had more frustrating experiences of late having other female creators
tell me that they're not feminists, which you know, that's
(33:37):
a that's a whole can of worms that we could
get into for days. But it's, uh, it's really frustrating
as things sort of as we're experiencing this see change hopefully,
um that I think women get mixed up about like that.
They think that, oh, if you're a feminist, that means
(33:58):
that you hate men and you don't want men to
be working as much as your you know, the thing
that they feel that they have to join the boys
club in order to be cool or really successful. I'm
very excited about seeing Magic Mike. Yeah, I'm hoping that
that mentality dies. I met as just like a small aside.
I was at a union. I won't say which guild,
(34:20):
but I was at one of the guilds at a
meeting and talking to one of the many people who
runs a women the women's section, and uh, I started,
I said something with the word feminist in it, and
she told me that she wasn't a feminist. And I
just think any sense like that, you know, what do
(34:41):
you say and that scenario, You're like, oh good, you're
the one fighting for me. Okay, yeah yeah. My My
problem in that regard is as an action writer, I
got told a lot early on, I can't write I
shouldn't write action films with female leads because no one
is going to buy them, no one is going to
(35:02):
watch them. They're not gonna make any money. But that
was before the Hunger Games and Gravity He and Divergent,
President and Divergent, and now there's been a ton of them,
and now those people have stopped telling me that. But
I've even had people in the business tell me that
I needed to write more things with white male leads
to prove that I could, because it was like, well,
if you only write women, how do we know you
(35:22):
can write men? Um? Yeah, and are they giving men
the same time? Hey, can you write us a femalely
just so we know you can do it? Because women
are like aliens, You guys, they're really hard. What was
the you don't have to say this if you don't
want to, and you don't have to, don't name the writer,
but the cars thing? Oh yeah, A specific a list
(35:45):
writer whose movie you have seen. I guarantee you um
makes a zillion dollars a year, he basically said to me.
Um Once, when I was talking about the screenwriting and
how there were fewer women in screenwriting professionally, he said, well,
the reason is that women just don't have what it
takes to sleep in cars. Uh. Men apparently are willing
(36:08):
to sacrifice and women aren't, was his points. Yeah, we're
really bad at sacrificing thing. You know, We're really a
selfish gender. I also know a ton of mouth screenwriters
sleeping in cars currently. Everybody lately, dude, probably never slept
in a car and right now for script, Yes, yeah,
(36:30):
he's very rich, oh man. Or maybe we're just better
at finding like comfortable places and generally taking care of ourselves.
Fun to be a pofecial screenwriter unless you've been homeless
first to And we're going to talk more with Chicksie
Script after a quick break. So is being a loud
(36:56):
and proud feminists as I as I see happening in
the snapshots that I do see of where when I
learn on screenwriting Twitter? Um, is it a liability at
all within the industry? Do you get branded in a
way or is it just more something that people unnecessarily
try to avoid. Well, none of us works in the
studio system. Yeah, so it's hard to it's really hard
(37:19):
to say. I don't know. Yeah again, like yeah, my
experience is relatively in terms of areas where that might happen,
My experience is pretty limited. Um, because I tend my
stuff tends to be if it's going into bigger hands,
people with money, they've they know my work and they
(37:40):
are like excited to be working with me. So, um,
you know, I've had We've watched some people who swing
sort of to the way other side of things, who
are like deeply using feminism, like maybe in a not
some way it get putting a respond and blacklisted. But
(38:04):
I don't think that that's I don't believe that that's
based on their feminism. I think they're based on general attitude. Yeah,
there's Um, did you guys see I wish I could
remember the name of the guy, interestingly enough who made
this little doc. But it's a video about the discrimination
against female directors in Hollywood. Yeah, Celluloid Feelings, thank you. Yeah,
(38:26):
and it is on Bloomberg. So I think I know
all of those women except for one. UM, and they
will tell you that they have I mean, and they
do in the video tell you that they've experienced blacklisting.
So there are definitely those who have experienced it, and
I think it's probably the women who have been the
most outspoken. But then we also know women who have
(38:50):
been on the podcast who say that they not that
they haven't experienced it. I think you'd be hard pressed
to find a woman in this industry who hasn't experienced sexism,
although maybe they don't realize they've experienced sexism. Um, there
was a writer who came on who I won't name,
but she said that she couldn't talk about the she
(39:15):
couldn't really talk about the treatment that she got because
she was worried that she would be kicked off the
studio job she had right um, but that it had
been very misogynistic and that she had just like you know,
thought to be strong about it and sort of push
her way through and not ruffled too many feathers and
that being yeah, there is still definitely an attitude of
(39:37):
that you need to smile and play nice, and even
if you are outspoken on various platforms, if you if
you don't really don't really wanted to come up when
you're going into big time meetings and stuff. So so yeah,
it's still I think a tricky area. There's an element
of that. Um. I just have an image of like
(39:57):
some male exact bringing you onto the project act and
they're like, oh, we just really needed a feminine perspective
on this. You know, you're great, cutie, and then take
a seat and you kind of just like, do you
criticize the person the exact for calling you cutie which
he would never say to a mail writer ever, or
(40:19):
a light your heart, sweetheart, giving you a hug. I've
heard a lot of times that, like, you know, you'll
go into the meeting as a woman and the executive
will try and give you a hug, which you would
never do. Also, but do you make a stink about
that or do you take the job because they have
made the effort to hire a woman and then on
the next job not work with that person. That's um,
(40:42):
I think that is the line that probably most people
are walking. And that's what's kind of achey is should
we be grateful that they've given us opportunities even though
we're women? Right? Yeah? Stuff, Yeah, well too start closing
things on high note because as obviously because we don't
(41:03):
want to, we don't want to discourage all of the
you know, the hopeful screenwriters listening. Most of our episodes
at least lately have been really positive. Like I mean,
I went home from our last recording and immediately launched
myself into two new projects and now I'm overloaded work
good job me, um. But it was because we're we
get inspired most of the time. Most of our stuff
(41:25):
is it started a little dark, but like you said,
I think that over the course of the last year
we now have really gotten into a positive place. Yeah,
we've seen a big evolution. I would be interested to
go back and actually listen, um in what the conversation
is like, and the and the opportunities for women are getting,
at least from where we stand noticeably larger, higher profile.
(41:49):
It is a pretty exciting time to be involved. So community,
if you are a lady thinking about writing right now
at the time, ye oh, I was just gonna ask
who y'all as role models are. Who are the women
in Hollywood or outside of Hollywood who you look to
to stay inspired and motivated? And yeah, Gina Davis, Diablo, Cody, Shanda,
(42:16):
Genji Cohen. Yeah, oh my god, Ava Verne like a beacon.
She's like she's killing it and it's so inspiring on
a daily basis. Christ And Smith who wrote Ten Things
I Hate About You and Legally Blonde awesome. Um, I
don't know, there's a there's a lot of people. I mean,
(42:37):
Jill Soloway, I mean, just watched that woman talk. If
you want to get inspired? Who else? Tina and we
could go on all day long. But that's great. I
mean that's great that you could go on all day long.
It would have been really kind of discouraging if you
(42:57):
listed two names only one lady. Yeah, uh no, there's
a lot of people out there who are Lindy Kaling,
Liz Merryweather. Oh yeah, yeah, a lot of amazing women working,
particularly in television. Um. There's a lot of female showrunners
who have who started with one show and now run Empire.
(43:19):
It's like Shonda, like Julie Pleck, Megan Allison, who is
playing it with bringing like really great content, Yeah, into
the world. Is there are there any projects coming up
from any of these women that you list as inspirations
that you're super excited about. There's one project coming up
(43:39):
from a runner we had on our show that we
can't talk about. Well, so to the answer is yes,
about We're just going to release an episode of us
screaming Alison's less oh Schroder, okay, so yeah, keep an
eye on Allison Schroder. Everybody wink wink Hardy here first book? Yeah,
well okay, so Um Dylan Meyer, who's a friend of
(44:02):
mine and she was on the podcast, Who's very cool
punk rock lady writer Um has a movie coming out
through Netflix called XO x O. UM, it's gonna be
really cool. Well, well, how about you guys, what's what's
up next for you guys. I'm making a film that
will hopefully shoot at the end of this summer called
(44:24):
The Bang Bang Girls, which is what I referred to earlier. Uh.
And that is the movie from the Female Perspective Prospective movie. UM.
I just directed a series that I did not write. UM.
Melanie w Recker wrote it. UM called The Friendless Five.
And it's a teen adventure series like a female Goonies. UM.
(44:47):
And that should be maybe really celine around November ish. UM,
but we're it might be coming out through some fancier platforms,
in which case I don't know when it will come out. UM.
And I'm really excited because my short film that I
finished in late is screening for the inaugural um Muff
(45:12):
Society event in San Francisco next week. UM. And it's
opening for Roman and Michell's high School Reunion, which is
one of my fairite movies about female friendship. UM. Yeah,
that's kind of what's going on with me. UM. I'm
lately am producing. I'm still right, but I'm determined to
write and produce a feature about a heavy set black
(45:35):
lesbian action movie. I mean, the movie is not a
heavy set black lesbian. The protagonist set lesbian because I
feel like that's the thing that no one would ever
ever do, and so I'm determined to do it. But
what mostly I'm producing right now? I may have a
short film about Dr Who fans and cost players that's
actually gonna screen at dragon Con Film Festival in September,
(45:59):
so a comic bookie, go see our movie, um, and
I will be there. Um. And I'm working on a
TV series, script TV series, a reality series, and another
friend short film, producing and writing depending on the project.
Just want swamped with paperwork today. Well, in the meantime,
where can people go to find more info about you?
(46:23):
And follow you on Twitter? If you would like them to?
We would love that man. We are at CWS podcast
on Twitter. Um, we are www dot chicks who script
dot com. You can also find us on the CWS
podcast handle on Instagram and Facebook, and we all have
individual twitters. Mine is at Bamboo Killer. Also my company
(46:46):
is called bear Trap Films. There's not a lot to
it right now, but that's what I'm just getting started.
I'm on Facebook and Twitter, uh, and I am at
Maggie Levin on Twitter and fun Ruiner Films dot com.
And I am at Lauren Shocker on Twitter. That's this
h two of them. And then y'all can like my
film on Facebook, The Bang Bang Girls. That's that's it.
(47:08):
We've got a lot of internet for You're so much.
It's so good. Um. Well, is there anything that we
did not ask you about or touch on that you
would like to add before we go? I would just
say for for all of your listeners, of course, if
you're thinking about writing, give it a give it a whirl, ma'am. Um.
(47:32):
And particularly if you are a girl, there's a lot
of resources out there to help you, um, especially if
you're well, even if you're not in the l A area,
there's so many mentorship programs that are coming up. There's
such an incredible community of female filmmakers that are really
trying to help each other out right now that if
(47:52):
you've even thought about dipping a toe in and we're
too afraid about beating the odds, uh, you know, if
you've got the mindset for it and you feel inspired
to tell stories, there's a lot of girls out there
who really want to help each other up the ladder. Definitely,
And if you're in Los Angeles or New York, there
are tons of like physical groups of women who meet
up on a regular basis. One is Film fatal Is,
(48:15):
although that's directors only. Obviously, women in film has its
own things, but there's also women in Moving Pictures out
here in l A, which is run by the amazing
Emily Best run Set and Dark. Um, if you're not
checking out what Emily Best He's doing, you should absolutely also,
I let's say people sometimes you guys may know this
because I answer all the emails people emails a lot
(48:36):
for advice as podcast at chicksu script dot com. Um,
if you want advice, I usually if I don't know
the answer, will point you to a place that will
give you the answer. So feel free to email us
and ask questions. And then the cool thing about living
in the Internet era is access. Uh. It's so easy
to self educate about how to be a screenwriter nowadays.
And there's so many people out there who are willing
(48:58):
to answer your questions just on the spot. So and
there are so many scripts that you can read, and
if you want to write, you should be read reading great.
And if you are a male writer and you're like,
how does this apply to me? No rape? No rape?
Please we're done with rape. But also if you, I mean,
(49:19):
just like, take one of those characters you've written as
a dude and just make it a woman. It's not
men and women aren't that different. In fact, you might
get a really interesting perspective out of that character because
you probably wrote that character as yourself, and now it
could be a woman, and you could really be helping
some boys and girls who are going to be watching
your film one day. As I have a Yeah, one
(49:41):
of my biggest issues is background characters being women. A
lot of times, if you need a doctor or a mechanic,
it's always a dude. Secondary characters. Every character in a
lot of movies, every character who is a woman is
the only woman because she has to be she's a
white or mother or girlfriend or whatever. Make good, just
a random character woman who doesn't have to be. Yeah,
(50:02):
and I also, gosh, this is a lot. Sorry they
talk forever, guys. I think I think it's also important
to note that, as much as we are deeply craving
strong female characters, not every woman in your script has
to be a super ninja genius exactly. Women can very stupid,
(50:24):
just as much as they can be brilliant. Guys. Women
can be guys and bad guys. Women can be all
of the things. In fact, did you know women are
fifty percent of the world's popular than wait what hold on,
it's mind blowing. You heard it here first, you guys. Well,
(50:50):
thanks again so much to Lauren, Emily and Maggie for
taking the time to talk with us. Caroline, I don't
know about you, but I feel like I have some
insider knowledge on Hollywood now that I didn't have before,
and also on screenwriting Twitter. I know, I think I'm
going to start lurking. Yeah, might as well, just to
(51:10):
just to see what's going on. Let's just you know,
lark maybe tweeter thing too. It would also be nice
to to get a perspective on things that are happening
in Hollywood and in the film industry that aren't just
like weird celebrity feuds, things that are actually a little
more interesting to read about well, And it's it's so
informative to know what's going on at this background knowledge
(51:31):
level to help all of these headlines that we do
see about just women in Hollywood in general, pay gaps, representation,
female ghostbusters, etcetera. It's helpful to note what is really happening,
especially when you aren't necessarily uh, super top dog a lister. Yeah,
(51:52):
and I mean I think plenty of the of the
perspective that they gave is helpful to people, whether you
want to be in screenwriting or not, especially the stuff
about you know, they mentioned that guy who up and
quit his job and said, I'm going to give writing
a year. I'm just gonna try it for a year
and if it doesn't work out, then I'm going back
to my day job. And of course when it didn't
work out and he goes back to his day job, um,
(52:14):
it was like he almost set himself up for failure.
And I think that's a great story for really anyone
who wants to give any dream a shot, that you
have to sort of give yourself a little bit more
credit and a little bit more time. Yeah, maybe you
don't put a time limit on your in your dream. Yeah,
I'll be sure. Friends to head over to Chicks who
Script dot com to learn more about Maggie, Emily, and
(52:37):
Lauren and also of course listen to their podcasts, and
you can find links to their website to where you
can listen to the podcast and also to all of
their twitters on this podcast post at stuff mom never
told you dot com and we'd also love to hear
from you. Was this an inspirational conversation for anyone listening.
(52:57):
I know that we have some filmmakers and screenwriters in
our audience, so we would love to hear from you.
Mom Stuff at how stuff Works dot com is our
email address. You can also tweet us at mom Stuff
podcast or messages on Facebook and quickly. I just want
to give a shout out to all of the fantastic
podcasters who talked to us this summer for our hashtag
(53:21):
podcasting women and Brian Sofie Ferries. It's been a blast
really getting to know some other people who are talking
to the Internet audio waves like we are. And we've
got a couple of messages to share with you right now. Well,
(53:44):
I have a letter here from Christie in regards to
our female urination Device episode. Uh, it's pretty technical. She's
got some advice for how to use them, she says. Hi, ladies,
I'm a PhD student in the biological science is I've
been listening to your podcast for several years now while
working in the lab. Thanks for making such an informative
(54:05):
and amusing podcast. It's helped me through many hours of
tedious experiments. Well you're welcome, Christie, thanks for taking us along.
So anyway, she says, when I heard the FUD podcast,
I was super excited, and you know, I finally had
a good excuse to write in. As you mentioned several
times during your show, floods are great for camping. I
purchased one a few months ago for a five day
backpacking trip. I decided to take along of FUD for
(54:27):
several reasons. First, I did not want to carry toilet
paper with me. Second, I didn't want to expose my
rear ind to mosquito and took bites. Third, I find
it difficult to keep splashes away from my shoes when
popping a squat. I settled on the Shewy brand because
it had an extension tube and a carrying case. Since
I was wearing the same pant for five days, I
didn't want any splashes on it or my hiking boots.
(54:49):
The extension tube was really helpful with this. The carrying
case allowed me to stash the FUD in an exterior,
easy access pocket without worrying the guys on the trip
seeing it. Okay, now, of the good part. I had
the fud a few weeks before we left for the trip.
I practiced in the shower the first time, and that
was quite easy. The following few days, I used the
food each time I urinated at home and stood over
the toilet. The first few times I was standing, I
(55:11):
still pulled my garments to my knees. After getting the
knack of aiming at the toilet, I needed to practice
while wearing my hiking gear. So the first time using
the FUD while wearing my hiking pant is where this
story gets amusingly embarrassing. Imagining this is how I would
use the food out in the woods. I did the
following unbuttoned and unzipped the fly, but leave the pant
at waist level, stand above the toilet, was slightly bit knees,
(55:33):
position the FUD against my body, and think of waterfalls.
I'd used the fud successfully half a dozen times already
without issue, but wearing my hiking pant while using the
FUD caused me to hold it at a slightly backward
angle thanks to gravity. My YearIn did not run down
the funnel, but down my legs. So here I am
a twentysomething early career professional having ped my panties. Luckily,
(55:53):
my husband was not yet home and I didn't have
to admit to him my mess. Needless to say, I
had to spend the next half hour mopping up the
bathroom and doing laundry. I did learn from the incident
of the material of my pants pretty stiff. I still
had to shimmy dan while using the fud, but my
rear end stays covered by my underwear and it's just
pushed to the side while using the FUD. I haven't
(56:14):
told anyone this yet, but if you want to share
my funny story on your podcast, that's fine. Keep up
the great work. You ladies are fantastic. And she has
a ps. She says, I like to say pant Stacy
London style, and that's a pet peeve of one of you, right,
And I think that hearkens back to an old episode
for like a long ago episode, where I'm pretty sure
(56:34):
I was the one who said that pant. The use
of the word pant irks me. Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm in
the camp of if Stacy London says it, it's good
enough for me. God, I just love her. She has
my aspirational gray streak. It's a it's a great streak.
It's a great gray streak. All minds coming into my
side burns. What the heck that's also distinguished? This? Yeah, great,
(56:57):
great chops. Awesome. Well thanks Christy. So I have a
letter here from Beth actually about a stuff I'm never
told you YouTube video that recently came out, in which
I write an email from a fella who thinks I
look horrible with makeup on. And this is something that
will happen. If you spend enough time putting your face
(57:18):
with makeup on the internet, you will get lots of
guys um thinking they're being kind and telling you that
you don't need makeup. So, Beth Rights, I really enjoyed
your latest video addressing men who criticize women pouring makeup.
As someone who considers makeup a bit of a hobby,
I find it really startling to see what feels like
a large amount of men and probably women, to feeling
the need to criticize not only you, but many women
(57:40):
on YouTube in particular for wearing makeup. I subscribe to
a number of beauty bloggers, and I can't imagine how
hurtful it must be to these women and men who
are trained and professional makeup artists to be told how
they look ugly or weird with makeup. Interesting enough, a
number of these women also seem to be criticized when
they appear bare faced as well. Yes, in fact, that
(58:01):
does happen. So apparently, for as many people out there
that hate honest ladies for having makeup on, there are
just as many willing to rip into us for going natural. Personally,
I think spending that extra time on myself both in
the morning and in the evening to remove my makeup
has really helped boost my overall self confidence and body image.
(58:21):
That time of the day is mine, no one is
there to bother me, and I feel like I can
really just be alone with myself, literally staring myself in
the face and taking the time to appreciate how I
look with and without makeup. For me, it's like my
version of meditation and my time to give myself a
pep talk and work through any negative feelings I might
have about myself. For those that don't wear makeup or
(58:41):
don't get what the big deal is, I liken this
to exercise. So many people seem to accuse those of
us that wear makeup of doing it for other people,
even if we insist we do it for ourselves. The
same is true for exercise. You could tell me you
love the rush of endorphins, the health benefits, or whatever,
but I could turn around and say you do it
to look good to other people. And there is certainly
(59:02):
some truth in that, just as there isn't wearing makeup.
Who hasn't hit the gym a little harder when someone
turned you down for a date. You might do it
for yourself, but maybe deep inside you also hope you'll
look good to those around you. But at the end
of the day, it's not about your outward appearance, and
there's always gonna be someone out there detracting from what
you look like, whether it's because you're too thin, too fat,
too made up, to plain, et cetera. But to me,
(59:24):
if you feel good, you'll look good, because the real
you is there when you feel your best makeup or
no makeup, or at least I like to think so
so thank you so much, Beth. I agree with your
stance on makeup, and she says, ps, I happen to
think red lipstick really suits you. So thank you, Beth,
(59:46):
and my lipstick thanks you too. And if you have
letters to send our way Mom step at house setworks
dot com is our email address and for links all
of our social media as well as all of our blogs, videos,
and podcasts, including this one with links so you can
go to check out Chicks who Script. Head on over
to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com. Little more
(01:00:09):
on this and thousands of other topics is that how
stuff Works dot com
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