May 25, 2016 • 59 mins
For many LGBTQ folks, the personal takes on an element of the political when it's time to get dressed. Caroline chats with designer Leon Wu, style expert Sonny Oram and beauty editor Aja Aguirre about the growing queer-fashion landscape and the importance of social media in helping shape communities and identities.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
How do refrigerators keep food cold? Who really invented the radio?
What was the worst video game of all time? On
Tech Stuff, we answer these questions and more. You can
get brand new episodes of tech Stuff every Wednesday on Spotify,
Google Play, iTunes, and anywhere else you get podcasts. Welcome
(00:25):
to Stuff Mob never told you from how Stuff Works
dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline
and I'm Kristen, And today we're continuing our deep dive
this week into discussing queer fashion, but this time we're
doing it with a couple of special guests who we
(00:48):
first started speaking with well via email. During south By Southwest,
we try to get in touch with some awesome folks
in the queer fashion community, but you know, south By Southwest,
it's so busy, and we missed them, We missed their panel,
and so we were really lucky and managed to nab
(01:09):
them for a fantastic interview that we hope you guys
will enjoy. And so today you will be hearing from
Leon Wu, the founder and CEO of Sharp Suiting, Sunny
or Um, the founding editor of style website Queer and Asia.
I Gire, the beauty editor of Auto Straddle, and you
mentioned south By Southwest Caroline and that we unfortunately were
(01:32):
not able to go to their panel, which we did
want to attend because it was about queer style, visual activism,
and fashions Frontier. So, uh, this group and also um,
the designer who started dapper que, which is the leading
style website for masculine presenting women and trans identified people,
(01:54):
were talking all about this concept of queer style as
an art form, and also the new fashion frontier and
and another branch of this too is how mainstream fashion
has kind of been co opting a lot of queer fashion. So, um,
I think it's such a great opportunity to get this
(02:16):
you know, diverse range of perspectives and one that we
started hearing from actually from our listeners in response to
our maternity Clothes Fashion History episode a while back. Yeah,
that's right. We heard from some great fashion leaning listeners
after that episode who had created maternity lines specifically for
(02:39):
uh butch lesbians or masculine identifying people, or really anyone
who felt that they didn't quite fit into that frills
and polka dots maternity market out there, and they stressed
how important it was to represent those people whoever, those
people are who who are often left behind in conversations
(03:02):
about fashion or just in looking at fashion in general.
And so that's why we were really excited to speak
with this group today because, like Kristen said, they do
have a diverse array of backgrounds from being active in
design to being active in the media talking about fashion.
So in this conversation, which is really a continuation of
(03:24):
our last podcast, which was about how Prince revolutionize the
concept of androgynous fashion, So you should absolutely go back
and listen to that for I mean a Prince, but
also a little bit of a primer on queer fashion. UM.
But we're gonna be talking with first of all, Leon Wou.
Like you said, he's a founder and CEO of Sharp Suiting,
(03:46):
which is an a gender luxury clothing brand that creates
custom and ready to wear clothing, accessories and lifestyle products.
And Sharp Suiting is especially busy right now because swimsuits
season is upon us and it's actually the first clothing
company to focus on butch swimwear. UM. And as part
(04:09):
of creating this ready to wear line and also custom clothing,
they created a high tech body measurement system to better
fit clothes on masculine identifying people not just butch lesbians
or trans men, but also sis men as well. So
I mean talk about taking all sorts of body types
(04:30):
and presentations into account. Yeah, and Sunny Orham is a
queer style expert who founded that style website quare that
I mentioned in twleven and they're the first trans blogger
to be sponsored by top Man. And Sunny described their
goal in founding Quare as fighting oppression through fashion because
(04:53):
they said fashion can absolutely be a form of activism
and this is something that we'll talk with all three
guests about in more detail in the episode. Well, and
that also echoes our episode from a while back on
a so called faction and the plus size blogging movement
that really started a number of years ago and it's
(05:14):
coming to its own um quite recently. Um. And then
finally we have Asia Agrey, who's the beauty editor at
auto Straddle, which is a site that we have referenced
on so many stuff I've never told you episodes. And
in addition to auto Straddle, Asia also leads the style
blog Fit for Phem and as an advocate for queer
(05:34):
women of color. Yeah, so this is such a fantastic conversation,
if I do say so myself, thanks to our really
fascinating and talented guests. So should we let the people
hear it? Absolutely, let's roll to get started. I'd love
to have you guys just introduce yourselves and tell our
(05:58):
listeners what you do. So so an We'll start with you. Hi,
I'm Stunny or might run the fashion website quare q
w E a R. And it's a style website for
people who transcend social norms through fashion, performance and gender expression.
And I'm based in Boston. I am Asia Girey. I
(06:18):
am the current beauty editor at auto Straddle, which is
the largest independent news media website for queer women as
well as the Gosh. I guess to call me the
founding editor of Fit for a FM, which I've been
working on since two thousand and eight as a as
a place and source of inspiration for fens together and
(06:38):
get inspiration and just kind of find their own people
when it comes to style and navigating the world as
a fem My name is Leon Woo and I am
the founder and CEO Sharp and that's sharp with an
E at the end uh suiting And we make classic
and modern clothing for all genders. Okay, so if you
(07:00):
could also now fill me in on your backgrounds how
I'm really curious about how you guys each ended up
in the fashion and fashion adjacent realms. Sunny, do you
want to start? Yeah? So I kind of fell into it. Um.
I was doing music in college, and then when I graduated,
(07:22):
I started exploring my identity and style more and I
kind of just fell into it. I discovered fashion blogging,
and I decided to try to create a space that
was uniquely queer, where we could all see each other
and where I could share my outfits that I was
discovering I loved. And then it just it just grew
(07:43):
from there. I just kept kept blogging, and people wrote
in and asked questions, and people started writing for us,
and it grew into what it is today. Did you
find that people really felt that they needed what you
were putting out there? Yeah? People were immediately drawn to
it because there was so little um advice for for
(08:04):
queer people. Um, I mean, for for me representing people
who are female assigned birth, but trying to find men's
clothes that fit that was really like, um, that was
a need. I mean, we didn't have companies like Sharp
yet so people just wanted any advice they could get.
What about you, Asia, how did you end up in
the fashion realm? Kind of a similar story? Um in
(08:26):
two thousand eight, what I started style blogs or both
new and really sort of blowing up in the biguitous everywhere.
And I didn't see myself and any of them. I didn't.
I didn't see a lot of women of color to start,
and I didn't really see any that were queer women,
especially queer women of color. And I've been the kind
(08:49):
of person that people always have been like, I love
what you're wearing, I love your makeup, I love this
and that, and who came to me for advice and
wanted me to shopping with them? Um? And so I thought, like,
I love this and I should just put it out
there into the world, um and see what happens. I
didn't have any real kind of like lofty expectations. I
(09:10):
just wanted to like stake out my place in the
world of style blogs because it seems like something really
fun and cool and and I thought it would be great.
Um if I did it, then maybe other women would
do it. And that definitely happened, especially in San Francisco Away.
Back in the day, you had UM Lesbians and sf UM,
(09:33):
which had a couple of other offshoots that just became
sort of a very photo heavy representation of queer women
UM and queer and trance people actually and what that
style looked like at the time. And then from there
there were a few other ones that were more plus
sized fans and more focused on fans of color UM.
(09:55):
So it was really great to see myself become not
the only one out there UM. And that just over
time with the fem conferences that used to go on,
and UM auto Straddle coming into play and working on
things with them and writing for them a little bit,
just all kinds of snowball into this awesome thing where
another beauty editor, why do you think a blog like
(10:17):
fit for fem or auto straddle? Why is it important
to show feminine fashion that's different from like more traditional
quote unquote beauty magazines like Glamour? How did how did
those differ from the more mainstream feminine fashion, right, and
not to insinuate that straight feminine women are just sort
(10:39):
of blindly doing what they're told or anything, but I
think especially for fems, and this was really highlighted in
the post that Sonny did featuring fourteen fans of color,
that was just incredible. Um. Being fem as a queer
woman or a trans woman is so radical in its
(10:59):
re clamation of femininity and in sort of hijacking it
away from a very heterosexual world, in a very sort
of binary world that has very very strong and pervasive
ideas about what women are supposed to look and act like. Um.
And it's interesting being a mother of a straight teenager
(11:19):
as well, watching how that influence in the media and
the media representation of women in general is so negative
and so laden with with just these horrible ideas that
that tell women what they're supposed to look and act like.
And I feel like when as a queer woman or
a transwoman, you embrace all of that femininity um, both
(11:42):
inside and outside. Aesthetically, it's it says a lot. It's
it's a very political statement, and it is really difficult
to navigate the world in that way because at the
first glance, the first take is sort of like, this
is for all consumption, this is for the male gase um,
(12:03):
and constantly fighting against that is you have to be
really strong to do that. Yeah, I definitely want to
put a pen in the political statement comment for sure. Um,
but Leon, I want you to tell our listeners how
you got involved in the fashion world. Yes, so Ever,
since I was little, I've always have a strong desire
(12:23):
or love for menouness wear. Um, Like I wanted to
wear my dad's clothes growing up. Um, I would actually
literally sneak into his closet and try on his clothes,
put on his ties, you know, always watch him tie
and tie in the mirror. I was just fascinated by it.
And you know, I'd read kind of GQ like on
(12:43):
my owner in secret as us growing up. And um,
you know, when I was twenty one, just out of college,
I joined a drag king troop called the Lost Boys
in Los Angeles, and through there, you know, I kind
of learned the art of of styling or fashioning masculinity
(13:04):
on stage. I quickly became the one who was the
organizer of all costumes for my troop. Um that later
extended throughout the years and I joined another troop called
the Beauty Kings of Los Angeles as well, and became
from a co producer of a show that's a queer
(13:25):
gender bending show called Bent so you know that all
of that has kind of progressed up through about a
year ago when Sharp got crazy busy, um in a
good way. Uh. And you know, in terms of Sharp
and how that started, you know, UM, I did have
a fashion design concept right before I went to business school,
(13:46):
UH called Fade Designs, and we focused on kind of
butched swimwear as an alternative means of of you know,
wearing uh swimsuits that did not fit into the very
buying ary um swimwear uh industry. So uh that was
about to go into production, and then instead I went
(14:07):
to business school and that was super busy, and all
I could do is focus on networking and meeting my
classmates and recruiting there um and studying. Uh. And then
after business school, you know, I got kind of comfortable
my rather corporate job right after. But then you know,
more and more of my friends are getting married or
(14:29):
attending weddings where they wanted to wear suits. And I
had made some connections in school with Taylor's in various
cities internationally. Um, during my travels, it was just something
I was checked out. When I was on a business
school trek or trip with my classmates, I would talk
to different Taylor's. UM I talked to Taylor's in Saville Row,
(14:51):
in London, UH, in Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, New York
UH and you know something, I noticed that there was
always a specific process that they all did as a
rather archaic um UH segment of fashion, and I wanted
to kind of revolutionize that. I also knew a special
(15:13):
way and how to measure people who identified similar as me,
like people who identify as either masculine of center, masculine leaning,
or trans men. And I knew how to fit clothes
on people who identified exactly this way. So UM I
started Sharp actually as a side operation, and UM started
(15:34):
making suits for friends and myself. Again, weddings was a
big reason for doing that, and within the first year
of UH existing as a business, we sold a hundred suits.
And that's when I kind of took the leap of
faith to leave my very financially secure corporate job and
(15:55):
jump full time into Sharp. We had a Kickstarter we
planned for within the first two months, and we raised
sixty nine K, exceeding our goal of six c K.
And after that we raised some more funds from friends
and family, and you know the rest is kind of
it just kind of took off and we're heading in
(16:15):
a direction where uh, we are being all inclusive. Uh,
not just two people in my immediate community, but anybody
who wants to wear sharp cloth clothing. So you'll see
a lot of campaigns this year where we are branching
out a little bit more um mainstream and trying to
get them to be aware of uh you know, what
(16:37):
the brand is and what it was aspired by. Okay,
well so and really anybody can pick up this question
who wants to go first? But I'm really interested in
how uh you guys feel the queer fashion scene has changed,
evolved and grown from when you first developed an interest
(16:58):
in clothes and fashion, um, all the way up to
when you started working professionally and and now today. I
mean I've seen a huge evolution just from when I
started queer and it's now been almost five years. Even
looking for people to feature, it was hard to find
people who really had their own sense of style, um,
(17:20):
because when when there's so little representation of queer style, you, um,
it's hard to figure out how to address I mean,
like you're there's like Shane from the L Word and
then you know, Ellen degenerous, and it's just like these
a few celebrities here and there. And then I mean,
of course we had we had Asia already for for
(17:41):
fem style, but um yeah, it's just people didn't really
know how to dress and we're asking lots of questions,
simple questions like how do I match my belt to
my shoes or something. And as time went on, I
started to see a growth in everyone. Um they started
experimenting with path turns, with different styles, and it just
(18:03):
seems like the queer community through social media was starting
to develop a sense of style. And it's just been
really amazing to watch everyone grow. Every year someone comes
out with something different. It's just really amazing. I um, Leon,
when you did all that the drag Troops, was that
like the early two thousands, mid mid two thousand's. Yes, yeah,
(18:26):
I feel like I came out way too late in life.
It's one of my big regrets. I didn't know, but
I feel like I came out in the very early
two thousands and just sort of belossomed in a time
through the mid to to late two thousand's when something
just really special was happening in the queer queer world
(18:47):
in terms of just like creativity and performance and music
and and that's so much of that manifested in style. UM.
I feel so lucky to have been there for all
of that, and I miss There's a lot I miss
about those days. There's a lot that I'm happy to
leave in the past. But I just I don't know
(19:07):
what's happened, and I think that there's a lot of
really incredible stuff happening now. But it's almost like, because
there was so much that we still were working towards
and fighting for as a queer community at large, those
spaces and that community was sacred in a different way,
(19:28):
and and because it was almost denser, it was more
powerful in those sort of create creative realms. Not that
that doesn't exist now. I just feel like it's become
more dilute across the board, which is great because it
means that it's reaching more people and people have more
options and more roads to go down. But yeah, it's
it's been a very interesting shift, I think the last
(19:50):
ten tenor so years. Yeah, I have to agree with
both Sonny and Asia. Yeah, I have seen a lot
of development. It's uh since the two thousand's UM, but
I feel like the biggest movement is definitely happening right now.
I mentioned earlier that I started I tried to start
a design concept right before I headed off to business school,
(20:13):
which is around two thousand and five, two thousand six,
Me and another friend who was very passionate about queer
fashion of Vanessa Craig actually co produced, uh what could
have been one of the first butch fashion shows, although
I'm sure other things were happening in various cities. Um
And you know, it's mostly our friends in the community
(20:35):
that came out to support that, and it was a
really great event that I felt very fulfilled with. But
it was hard to bring that outside of the scope
of the community. And I think right now, because things
are really ursioning, is it is a time to to
do that. And so that's what I'm trying to do
with SHARP is basically bring social impact through commerce and
(20:57):
expand a little bit further so people are more are
aware of these other identities. Um and there's so many,
as you can see, with all the various queer fashion
brands that are out there, UM, I can probably count
at least you know, thirty, probably fifty of them out
(21:18):
there in the US and Canada. And um, all of
these different brands in a sense represent a different type
of identity in in the queer fashion space, and you know, uh,
people are more interested there. I think people are wanting
to see more than the standard UM offering that's currently
(21:39):
in the fashion industry. And UM, you know, I'm just
kind of writing this wave and seeing where it goes
and finally having a chance to to fulfill my passion
will lee on how big is the queer fashion designing
community and what is funding like, I mean, is it
the same for more quote unquote mainstream fashion. Yeah. So
(22:02):
I will start out by saying that UM, finding capital
UM for fashion brands is particularly hard in general if
you're just looking across the various UH industries for startups. UM.
That said, being a queer fashion brand adds another layer
of challenges to it. I think that people are more
(22:24):
technology focused, So the fact that Sharp is moving more
UM and opening up our line of business to e
commerce certainly helps. But if you're just a brick and
mortar fashion brand, it's very very difficult. I mentioned before
that we raised we surpassed our goal for Kickstarter, and
(22:45):
that's because we have enormous support from the community. And
that was really exciting for me to see. Um, we
had some support and we raised over a hundred k
from friends of family, and now we're expanding to you know,
in a sense cold pitching to the average person, and
that is definitely experienced because, um, I have to sit
(23:07):
there and explain exactly how we were inspired and what
the background of our story is, and then I have
to kind of bridge the gap and say why are
how are we going to become successful as you know
any x y Z fashion brand out there? Um. So
that's definitely the challenges that I'm facing right now. But
(23:28):
I think, um, you know, with our expansion, which you're
going to see on e commerce, uh, that I think
we have a real shot at it. So I'm excited
to see where that goes. Is the e commerce queer
fashion industry and those sales? Are they driven by social media?
Do you think kids who are I mean, I say kids,
(23:49):
but it's really multiple generations? Um is it? You know
kids who are finally maybe coming out and they are
looking to blogs and webs it's like yours and saying,
oh my gosh, I don't have it in my x
y Z small town, but I can at least get
it online. Are you hearing from people like that? Yeah?
So I think you said keyword, which is kids. We
(24:12):
definitely have a lot of kids following all of us, um, myself,
Sonny and Asia, and that's great because then we get
to to let them know as they're growing and maturing
as adults that hey, there's a space for you in
the future. Um. Again though their kids, so they can't
really afford you know, um, items that are several hundred dollars,
(24:33):
which you know, some of our suits do cost that
much money. UM. But the hope is to stick around
until that group can actually partake in and and be
purchasers of this these items. UM. But a lot of
I think more effective UM marketing goes into digital advertising
(24:55):
right now um, and you will see the older crowds
and Facebook. So we have a campaign that's gonna be
coming on Facebook soon. UM. And just a lot of
connections or word of mouth, especially for somebody that's being
referred to a Taylor so to speak. They want to
know that that somebody else that they know, uh really
(25:15):
well has a nice personal connection with their Taylor and
it's referral based that way. So Sonny and Asia have
you guys heard from members of the younger generation about
fashion and and sexual identity and sexual orientation. Yes, Um,
I hear from kids all the time. Um. A lot
(25:35):
of the stories are heartbreaking, but some are more uplifting. UM.
A lot of kids who are struggling with their identity
and feel like they need to fit into a box. Um.
They say like, I think, I think I'm attracted to girls,
but I don't know, like you know, they get all
confused and it's really cute. Um. Um. And lots of
(25:58):
kids right in with issue us with their school or
their parents in terms of like not letting them dress
the way they want to. So UM, I've given a
lot of what I've tried to give a lot of
advice to those people and um. But yeah, just a
lot of a lot of kids are also able to
express themselves more now and they have all these new
(26:21):
terms for how they identify and that's really cool to see. Yeah,
it's it's a little bit bizarre to have started for
a FEM when I was in my twenties and now
in my thirties, UM and seeing that shift because I
don't know necessarily that my audience's age has reflected my
own over. I mean, only on the Internet can you
be called like two traditional and old school and high
(26:42):
concept in the same sense. Um So, what I get
mostly a fit for a FM because it's um so specific,
is women who come to me and they say, when
I came out and I realized I was when I
realized that I was queer. I thought that that automatically
meant I had to cut my hair, I had to
(27:03):
put on men's clothes, I had to be more androgyness
or butchet up. And it never really felt like me.
I just felt like this was the only way to
be seen. Um as as gay or lesbian are queer,
and ultimately they stumble upon fit for them and they
think to themselves, whoa like I can do this? This
(27:24):
this person is clearly doing this, and then you know,
finding things that I connect to or or other people
it's saying, it's totally a thing, and suddenly it becomes
an option for women who, do you know, want to
reclaim their feminity and be out there and the world
is of them. Leon, Did you have anything else to
add to that, um No, non particular. Well you guys, Asia,
(27:49):
you directly touched on this earlier, but you guys have
also touched on the idea of fashion as a part
of activism and of making your idea entity clearer to
yourself clear to other people. So do you feel that
fashion is a branch of activism and and how how
(28:11):
is it a branch of activism? Well, I mean, I
think we're seeing with North Carolina that the battle is
not over. Um. There are still really really hard times
being fought across this country for a lot of folks
who are just fighting for the right to exist. And
human beings are very visual, and so when being who
(28:35):
you are visually and and being identified puts you at
risk or means that your rights can be trampled on
or you can be discriminated against, and there's no repercussion
for that. That that's definitely activism to be who you
are and to be out and sort of not compromised
on that front. And that's really powerful and scary for
(28:57):
a lot of people. Um. And the more you can
just support them and help give them courage and help
them to be authentic and true to themselves, that's a
really privileged place to be in for me personally. Um.
Just like Asia was saying, it's really hard to just
move about the world. Um, I guess this is a podcast,
so you can't see what I look like. But I
(29:18):
identify as non binary and trans, and you know, sometimes
I pass as males. Sometimes I don't, especially probably over
this podcast, I sound more like I have a high voice.
But so I just have to kind of every time
I get dressed, deal with what people's reactions are going
to be, and still try to be true to myself.
(29:39):
Like right now, I have a bun in my hair,
which makes people read me as more female, But sometimes
if I put on a bow tie, I can pass.
So you never really know what's going to happen, and
it's always kind of an adventure going into the bathroom.
So yeah, I think for in terms of just the
community at large, even people who aren't non binary, I
(30:00):
think it's really important to recognize that we that the
fashion industry puts UM standards on all of us, and
even if you identify UM along the binary UM. Just
like Asia was saying, if you were dressing it, like,
if you're a woman dressing in a body positive way,
(30:20):
like your plus size and you're showing off your middrift,
like that is activism in itself because you're saying that
you are proud of who you are instead of trying
to hide it. Yeah. I think that visual activism is
a big part of of what Sharp does and there's
still a law work to be done. I mentioned during
(30:41):
the south By south West panel that we had suited
on the red carpet Phyllis Naggi, who was the screenwriter
of Carol as she was up for a nomination. She
was very visible and you know, yeah, she looked great
on the red carpet. Uh. She took a chance by
doing that, and she was very brave. She's definitely a
(31:01):
pioneer in in queer fashion because of that. Um. We
also flew to Monroe, Louisiana to deliver a tuxedo for
a high school student who was initially banned from um
uh her ability to wear a tuxedo to her own prom.
When that band was lifted. Then we were there to
(31:22):
provide her a suit and she got to wear it
to a prom and have fun with her friends. UM.
We're still, you know, always looking to see, you know,
how we can provide back to the community and um,
you know advance kind of uh this these new styles
and identities into the fashion world. UM. So yeah, I
(31:45):
think there's still a lot of work to be done.
Even within the queer community, there's a bunch of sub labels. Um,
even being a transman or transgender individual, there's still sub
labels like trans feminine and trans masculine. And people have
asked me, you know, like which one do you identify with?
And I'm like, isn't interesting how we're trying to get
(32:06):
away from labels, but we give up more and more labels.
And I think, you know, the consensus is, once we
have so many labels that everyone has their own label,
then maybe we won't need them anymore and a person
will just be a person because you can, ideally, I mean,
you can essentially have um a different label to per
day to right you think about it, you know, I
(32:29):
think for us to be able to label ourselves or
not label ourselves as we wish, Yeah, it's a choice. Yeah,
do you think how long do you think it's going
to take or do you think it's going to happen?
But how long do you think it's going to take
for more mainstream media outlets to catch up with that
idea of not everybody is on this binary guys, not
(32:52):
everybody uses the same one or two labels. Do you
see that happening right now or do you ever see
it happening at all? I feel like it's starting to
trickle in a little bit. But and I think especially
with like younger characters in the media who are trying
to figure themselves out. And I definitely know with younger
(33:15):
people being the mom of a teenager, like, they just
don't care. That's that's my take. They just seriously don't care,
and they're not really interested in categorizing, which is fascinating
because I feel like human beings, like your brain, just
before you can even consciously think about it, wants to categorize.
It wants to organize things and to meet little boxes.
(33:38):
Um for whatever reason. I'm sure people who studied that
sort of thing of the name for it. But um, yeah,
it's really interesting to see how that is gonna kind
of become more and more prevalent in media representation. We're
already seeing some mainstream designers Alexander Wayne Gucci showing androgynous
designs on the runway. Um and um, you know, the
(34:02):
the kind of the slim fit style that we're seeing
a lot in the mainstream is is very androgynous. Um uh,
you know, it kind of takes on more of a
diamond shape, and that is especially for hiding curves or
or body parts that are more defining as masculine versus feminine. Um.
So we are seeing that and it is, in my opinion,
(34:25):
different from the nineties campaign that you saw a lot
with Calvin Klein and that sort of androgyny. This is
more of, uh, this is something that's rather than oh,
I'm gonna pick that label because they're going through an
androgyny trend, this is more of a we're gonna include
this going forward kind of a fashion movement. So I
(34:47):
do feel that, you know, mainStreet is catching onto quart
fashion as well. What of sonny did you have something
abb Oh? Sure? Um yeah. Well, as I mentioned in
the panel to um, I do I I appreciate that
the industry is doing a lot of unisex uh androgynous lines,
(35:12):
but at the same time, it's very limited to white,
essentially female assigned birth skinny people. So I'm really hoping
that we can expand that to show that an androgyny
can be for anyone of all body types. And um,
I'm just personally, I'm really hoping someday that that stores
(35:33):
won't feel such a need to separate things into women's
and men's sections because we're all shapes so differently that
it's really I mean, uh, like yes, men maybe taller
in general or or wider, but it's just there's so
there's so much diversity in body type among all of
(35:54):
us that I really don't think we need to separate
it nearly as much as people think. And I field
the most free if I can just shop um when
all the clothes are just together, because then I'm like
like those like those teenagers, I'm just not caring about
like bolts that I'm just having fun. Yeah, it is
(36:14):
interesting to watch. Kristen and I did an episode on
essentially feminism in fashion, but from the perspective of feminism
being used as a trend and the argument of well,
is this a negative because feminism is being used or
is it a positive because at least feminism is getting
(36:35):
a platform and it's part of a larger discussion. Do
you feel like something similar is happening with more androgynous
looks or with um fashion that's sort of for everyone.
Do you feel like androgyny is a trend or do
you feel like more mainstream fashion is really starting to
adopt more of a fashionist for everyone ethos and I
(36:57):
think people are taking these terms like androgyny, tomboy, um,
a gender, and a lot of brands are just kind
of throwing it around and it's really just code for like,
here are some clothes that look really good on skinny
people and don't particularly you know, have a gender to them.
(37:17):
Often they're more masculine leaning actually, So yeah, I do
think it's it's a trend that people are kind of using,
and um, I wish people were a little more careful
with their words because, um, there are some people who
really do identify as a gender or androgynous um and
(37:38):
these people, most of them aren't represented by this group. Yeah.
I almost feel like if to be a little bit
of a music nerd, if you go back into like
punk and new wave and those times and like the
late sixties through the mid eighties, I mean you had
(37:58):
I feel like you had almost true like a gender
stuff where um like adam Ant would wear you know,
rouffaly shirts and kind of very tight hip hoggy sort
of pants and a lot of a lot of detail. Um,
and then you had just sort of the straight up
and down. And again this goes to what you're talking about. Sunny, look,
(38:21):
that's just like a plain white shirt and you kind
of st Laurn has actually been doing a lot of
stuff that looks like that, UM, but at least that
gives more of a balance to where you see masculine
people wearing sort of more feminine or fussy or frilly
clothing rather than just everybody kind of meeting in this
(38:41):
this so called androgynous to find middle middle of the road,
which isn't really because it doesn't incorporate anything on the
feminine side of the spectrum. Right. You know, UM, A
gender is not just about a bunch of butches and suits.
It's UM. It's playing with different types of not just tailoring,
but also draping UM and really kind of not using
(39:06):
gender basically as a way of styling. It's UM using
clothing in a way that UM doesn't have anything to
do with that. If you look at the origins of tailoring,
they did initially start tailoring, uh for people who were
male or or for men, and this is back in
(39:27):
the day and during the Renaissance era. Everyone was wearing
kind of um draping kind of clothing and then Tayloring
came into play. This is around the rise of Christianity,
and um you know, it was only for men at
that point. I think we're at a point in fashion
where it doesn't really matter. You can um play with
(39:51):
different shapes and um uh. You know. That's another reason
why I chose suits, is because I'd like to with
suits that typically are very masculine type of symbol and
clothing and and just be able to suit all types
of people women, um uh, those who are female identified,
(40:13):
draping it off the shoulders, wearing them with shorts, you know,
I mean, just playing around with it, and we're finding
that a lot of people are actually liking these styles.
Um So yeah, sorry that wasn't in a very direct answer,
but it's I could talk about this, and I didn't
want to go into like a ten minutes feel, you know,
(40:34):
but hopefully that gives kind of an idea of of
you know, uh a gender and and how that pertains
to fashion. I feel like it's not only gender in
terms like androgeny to get thrown around for and and
feminism that get thrown around for sort of trendy fashion reasons,
but also issues of race and ethnicity, I'm interested in
(40:59):
your take on and where the place is for women
of color in or you know, feminine identifying people in
this discussion about queer fashion, because, like you were saying,
Sonny for instance, so much of that quote unquote androgyn
his fashion does tend to focus on skinny white people.
(41:21):
So what's your what's your take on the space for
feminine or female identifying people of color. One thing that
we talked about and kept going back to it ourselves
by Self West panel was give people who aren't represented
more seats at the table. Everybody agreed on that. Everybody
was on the same page about if you want to
(41:42):
if you're a mainstream fashion brand and you want to
have a play at androgyny or you want to incorporate
more women of color on your runways or just people
of color on your runways, even bring more of those
people to the table. You can't, you know, work on
those con steps and have it to be divorced from
(42:03):
from those folks having representation and stay and what that
should look like, what that should feel like, how that
should be marketed. Um So, I think that's just one
of the key pieces. UM. I just worked on a
story um at Auto Straddle that featured Cora Harrington, who
runs the lingerie addict um her addict rather and um,
(42:25):
it's a it's a great her blog is amazing. It's
just all it's a it's a lingerie drain. Basically, you
just look at this wonderful, beautiful, incredible lingerie. And so
she worked with some other people on this idea of like,
let's let's do our own photo shoot representing these sprain
summer trends um and work with little indie brands um
(42:48):
to just sort of put out into the world like
what this should look like, what lingerie marketing campaigns should
look like if they wanted to be representative of a
diverse group of people. And they had an older woman,
they had Cora, who's a black woman, um, and she's
queer and she's gorgeous, but and she also rock natural
hair um. And then there was a non binary queer
(43:12):
woman as well. UM. And there was one other one
other galic it's escaping me right now um. And so
they came together and they did this incredible, really beautiful
photo shoot. UM. But even then, because Cora is slender
and has insane bone structure. UM. You know, some people
(43:33):
are like how well, how is this different? How is
she different from the norm? And it's because she's a
queer woman, and she's a queer woman of color, and
she's darker than most black women that are featured in
lingerie campaigns, and she's a little bit more her physique
is a little bit more muscular than is usually considered
(43:55):
acceptable and lingerie campaigns. I mean, I can go on
and on and on about what makes her unique and special. UM,
But it's interesting to have that conversation, and it's wonderful
to see people sort of taking it into their own
hands and putting what they want to see out into
the world. Yeah, that's one of my goals with Quaire
(44:15):
is to just provide this platform for everyone to express themselves.
And I try to keep keep myself out of the
equation as much as possible. So if it's UM, if
it's a column written by a queer woman of color, UM,
just making sure that it's really all hers and then
(44:36):
I'm just you know, pressing publish. UM. So that's that's
just really important to our values at Queer, that we
give everyone a voice and that it's not dominated by
UM any one voice. You know, UM as sharp as
a business. UM, we do have to UM. It's it's
(44:57):
a very tricky balance, I think, you know, UM, as
we've you know, bottom line is going to determine whether
we survive or whether I can continue to do this
or not. UM. So you know in our next campaign, UM,
you will see um uh very slender cis I guess
so to speak, Caucasian guy wearing um our suits. And
(45:21):
that is because we are wanting to be all inclusive
to you know, the average guy who's sitting behind the computer,
who um really wants to buy something that's more fashion
forward and um also you know maybe hipster and as
cool with you know that we're inspired by the l
g B t q UH community. UM So in the
(45:44):
product shots you will see that. But in all my
editorials on the runway, I'm always including all um ethnicities,
all body types, all uh genders uh to you know,
as kind of an ode to who we are and
where we came from and who we're going to continue
to be. UM. But you know, again with marketing and
(46:04):
product marketing, we have to kind of take care of
our bottom line, so to speak. So it's gonna be
a tricky balance. But I hope I hope the community understands,
because um, it's it's better for a brand like Sharp
to be around someday then for us, you know, not
to exist at all, and then there's no work that
I can really do at that point. Yeah, in terms
of the community understanding, UM, I'm always I'm in a
(46:27):
unique position to get to talk to people like you Leon,
who um are running your business and have all these
things you're dealing with, and then the community who's having
all of this feedback that's often negative, and I'm trying to, like,
you know, help balance um explaining to the community like no,
I'm serious that these people have to charge this much
(46:49):
like they worked all the numbers. This is just what
they have to charge. You know, We're We're sorry it's
too much for you, you know that kind of thing.
So UM. So yeah, I hope fully we can bridge
and understanding alongst each other. Yeah. It is a delicate balance. Um.
I I know, I talked to Nick Casey a lot
about his business with his footwear swear, and it's like, UM, well,
(47:13):
if you want something that's made uh with this sort
of level of authenticity and quality, then it's going to
cost this much money. Um. Also just bear in mind
that we are dealing with the supply chain that is
also very gendered and binary, and so if we want
to change things slightly, that costs us money and so
(47:34):
unfortunately that comes out in our retail pricing. And you know,
we've kind of kind of stick together to support each other. Um.
You know, uh, it's it's better, you know, to kind
of pay a little extra um for brands like this
to be around, and then when we get to a
point where we've changed things all the way vertically, then
(47:55):
the prices can come down right right. I feel like
it's just something that takes time, and a lot of
folks who are consumers simply don't understand because they're not
they're not in your position, or they're not well verse,
or they don't know a super ton about the background
of what it takes to do that. You see that
in like making vegan clothing or vegan products or ethically
(48:18):
sourced thing. It is expensive. There's a reason that fast
fashion is fast fashion, and it's so so so cheap,
and it's very easy to ignore the fact of why
that is. Um. But it's impossible to ignore as a
as a business person and as someone who is very
intentional about buying ethically sourced things, or about supporting a
(48:40):
queer business. Um, I mean, I think those are excellent
points in terms of balancing the business against the constant
sort of social outcry for no. But I want, I
want my fashion, and I want it now. Um. I mean,
I think it's an excellent point, and I want to
sort of start to wrap it up. I've kept you
(49:01):
good people too long, but I want to get from
each of you, uh, some advice if you have it,
for young listeners out there, um, whether they're queer or not,
maybe just kids who feel like they're different and outside
of the mainstream, What is your advice for them as
really fabulous fashion people, two kids who maybe feel just
(49:25):
a little different, sunny, Let's start with you. Yeah, just
um it's cheesy, but just be yourself, I mean you
you really everyone experiments to figure out what feels right.
So just try things on, you know. I I've had
a lot of embarrassing fashion moments in my day and
it was all part of the process of, um, finding
(49:47):
my style, and I'm still discovering it. So just try
to be free, uh, and just surround yourself by friends
who support you in whatever stage you're in, and who
don't make you feel like you have to conform to anything.
I agree. Uh, please don't go to some of my
older posts, but you could if you wanted to to
(50:09):
see how my style has evolved over the years. It's
just the nature of getting dressed as a human being.
Things cycle in and out and and it's exciting. It's
exciting to take part of those things. It's exciting to
go against the grain, and how you feel is more
important than anything else. UM. I would say one of
(50:30):
the more interesting things that I discovered moving from the
Bay Area to Boston four years ago was how reticent
people are to buy second hand or thrifted or clothing
that that's not brand brand new. And I feel like
for a lot of young people who maybe don't have
access to a lot of money and can't spend what
(50:50):
they would ideally like to to achieve the style that
they want to represent or experiment or play with. UM,
don't be scared of that if there's nothing weird about it.
I can't believe I had to say that to so
many clients as a personal stylist, but sometimes it's one
of the only ways to get the look that you
want from older clothing or are just there's no way
who can buy retail off the shelf, but you can
(51:12):
absolutely get that if you go and hunt for it,
um in the bins or at someplace like Buffalo Exchange
or crossroads where that stuff is a lot more accessible
than it is brand new. So just have fun and
don't be script out by any of that stuff. And yeah, nice,
thank you so much. UM, could you go down the
line again and tell our listeners where they can find
(51:35):
you online and where they can find out more about
your work, Sunny, let's start with you. Yeah, so my
website is Queer Fashion dot com. It's spelled q w
e a R fashion dot com and that's where you
can see everything we've done. You can find my style
blog Fit for a f M at Fit for a
FM dot com, Um, just like it sounds, and auto
(51:58):
Strato dot com is where you can find a lot
of my style and beauty coverage. Um, and that is
also just how it sounds. And if you want to
follow me on Instagram or Twitter, they're my is dear
jones e j O n E s E Y. I
know Instagram is super popular, so cool and uh, for
sure if We've got spring summer collection that's launching in
(52:20):
the next month or two and you can find that
at www dot Sharp s H A r P E
Suiting s U I T I n g um dot
com or find us on Twitter, Instagram, uh, Facebook, and
the Twitter and Instagram is at Sharp Suiting. Great. Thank
you guys so much. It was such a pleasure talking
(52:42):
to you. I could honestly talk to you, like for
three more hours. But thank you for having us. Yeah,
thank you so much for having us. And I just
want to say Leon, Sonny and Asia so much for
(53:03):
joining us. I really think that our listeners will identify
with a lot of what they said, and I was
so pleased to really be able to represent these fashion
viewpoints on our show. And I'm also looking forward to
hearing from listeners who are in the style and design fields, um,
because I'm sure that you have even more insights to
(53:25):
talk about this, and also listeners within the l g
B t Q community. I mean, do these issues resonate
with you? Have there been challenges finding the fashion that
really fits who you are both inside and out? Um? So, Mom,
Stuff at how stuff works dot com is where you
(53:46):
can send all of your emails. Of course, you can
always tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or message us
on Facebook, and we've got a couple of messages to
share with you right now. Well, I have a letter
here from Olivia and Kristen. She has some questions in
here too for us to address. Okay, so Olivia says, first,
(54:10):
I just wanna say thank you for doing what you do.
I love listening to your thoughtful conversations on the podcast
while I'm doing everything from working to cleaning, and it
totally brightens my day. I was listening to your most
recent episode about the lesbian wage bump, and the idea
that many lesbians never count on being attached to a
male breadwinner really got me thinking, I, a straight white
CIS lady, have more or less always counted on being
(54:32):
in a partnership with a male breadwinner. I knew from
a very early age that I wanted to get married someday,
and I figured my marriage would work the way my
parents does. But my mom lends a significant hand since
she's back to work after taking more time off when
my sister and I were little, I've never been encouraged
to make being a primary breadwinner a priority. This is
presumably in part because I'm female, but also because I
(54:54):
come from a family of creatives who always put following
your passions before making money. My decisions about my career
have been made accordingly. As a working artist, I'm much
more concerned with the career trajectory that will fuel my
passions than with what will be a stable source of
income for a future family. This feels like a betrayal
of both feminism and my boyfriend. I dislike the fact
(55:16):
that I'm mentally bank on this safety net when thinking
about my future, and it feels terribly unfair that I'm
primarily concerned with chasing my passions while my boyfriend has
to balance that with having a career stable enough to
support any family we might eventually have, though he assures
me it's totally fine. All this to say, I was
wondering if you could do an episode on reconciling one's
(55:38):
radical feminism with being in typically quote unquote female positions.
Does this kind of thing grind other women's gears? How
many of us are in those positions by choice? How
do you navigate being a feminist while pursuing your dreams
on another person's dime? I mean, I think that that
is all about partnership gender as saw you know, I
(56:00):
mean there are times in long term relationships when one
person kind of has to carry more of the weight
and it evens out most likely at some point. And
I don't think that that it necessarily means that you're
being a bad feminist. Yeah, And and the same sentiment
goes for what job you choose. I mean, if you
(56:23):
wanted to be a prima ballerina, I'm thinking of like
something super you know, traditionally feminine. That doesn't matter if
that is your passion. And it would be one thing
if you were trying to take advantage and and get
a leg up over your partner. But it sounds like
you guys are in really open, clear honest communication with
(56:45):
one another that you really want to pursue your passion
and your boyfriend, who sounds like will become your husband
one day or you know, you guys are just in
it for the long haul. Um, it sounds like he's
on board with the two and so No, like Christen said,
I don't think that makes you a bad feminist. And
I don't think that if you're in a traditionally uh
(57:08):
female coded or male coded line of work, or female
dominated or male dominated line of work. I don't think
either one speaks to what kind of feminist you are.
I don't think that your passion or your skills speaks
to feminism. I think you can be a feminist and
be in a super traditional feminine role, female role, or
(57:30):
you could be a construction worker. You know what I mean, right?
I mean because I think we also conflate feminist and
feminine and consider that you know things that are feminine
or somehow the antithesis of feminism, and that's not the
point at all. So you know your own motivations and
it sounds like they're pure, and let your partner support you,
(57:53):
because that's what partnership is all about. So thanks for
your question. Um. I've got another letter here Natasha about
our lesbian wage Gap episode, and Natasha writes, I listened
to the Lesbian Wage Gap episode today while I was
out in the yard doing work, and I'm just really
glad you discussed it. As a queer woman who grew
up in a rural area and is continuing to work
(58:14):
in agriculture, and we'll live in a rural area all
my life. I really appreciated you talking about the members
of the queer community who live in rural areas and
the jobs we do. There's a big myth there's no
queer people in rural areas and we all want to
flee to the cities. So even your discussion of poverty
and the difficulty living and working in rural areas is
super appreciated by me, because so often we don't exist
(58:37):
in anything. I've really been enjoying listening to your podcasts
as I'm walking fields all day, So thank you and
keep up the good work. Well. Thank you, Natasha, and
for all of our listeners. If you want to send
us a let our moms stuff at how stuff works
dot com is where you can do that, and for
all of our social media as well as all of
(58:58):
our blogs, videos and podcasts with our sources so you
can learn more about queer fashion and our fabulous panelists today,
head over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com
For more on this and thousands of other topics. Visit
how stuff Works dot com.
How do refrigerators keep food cold? Who really invented the radio?
What was the worst video game of all time? On
Tech Stuff, we answer these questions and more. You can
get brand new episodes of tech Stuff every Wednesday on Spotify,
Google Play, iTunes, and anywhere else you get podcasts. Welcome
(00:25):
to Stuff Mob never told you from how Stuff Works
dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline
and I'm Kristen, And today we're continuing our deep dive
this week into discussing queer fashion, but this time we're
doing it with a couple of special guests who we
(00:48):
first started speaking with well via email. During south By Southwest,
we try to get in touch with some awesome folks
in the queer fashion community, but you know, south By Southwest,
it's so busy, and we missed them, We missed their panel,
and so we were really lucky and managed to nab
(01:09):
them for a fantastic interview that we hope you guys
will enjoy. And so today you will be hearing from
Leon Wu, the founder and CEO of Sharp Suiting, Sunny
or Um, the founding editor of style website Queer and Asia.
I Gire, the beauty editor of Auto Straddle, and you
mentioned south By Southwest Caroline and that we unfortunately were
(01:32):
not able to go to their panel, which we did
want to attend because it was about queer style, visual activism,
and fashions Frontier. So, uh, this group and also um,
the designer who started dapper que, which is the leading
style website for masculine presenting women and trans identified people,
(01:54):
were talking all about this concept of queer style as
an art form, and also the new fashion frontier and
and another branch of this too is how mainstream fashion
has kind of been co opting a lot of queer fashion. So, um,
I think it's such a great opportunity to get this
(02:16):
you know, diverse range of perspectives and one that we
started hearing from actually from our listeners in response to
our maternity Clothes Fashion History episode a while back. Yeah,
that's right. We heard from some great fashion leaning listeners
after that episode who had created maternity lines specifically for
(02:39):
uh butch lesbians or masculine identifying people, or really anyone
who felt that they didn't quite fit into that frills
and polka dots maternity market out there, and they stressed
how important it was to represent those people whoever, those
people are who who are often left behind in conversations
(03:02):
about fashion or just in looking at fashion in general.
And so that's why we were really excited to speak
with this group today because, like Kristen said, they do
have a diverse array of backgrounds from being active in
design to being active in the media talking about fashion.
So in this conversation, which is really a continuation of
(03:24):
our last podcast, which was about how Prince revolutionize the
concept of androgynous fashion, So you should absolutely go back
and listen to that for I mean a Prince, but
also a little bit of a primer on queer fashion. UM.
But we're gonna be talking with first of all, Leon Wou.
Like you said, he's a founder and CEO of Sharp Suiting,
(03:46):
which is an a gender luxury clothing brand that creates
custom and ready to wear clothing, accessories and lifestyle products.
And Sharp Suiting is especially busy right now because swimsuits
season is upon us and it's actually the first clothing
company to focus on butch swimwear. UM. And as part
(04:09):
of creating this ready to wear line and also custom clothing,
they created a high tech body measurement system to better
fit clothes on masculine identifying people not just butch lesbians
or trans men, but also sis men as well. So
I mean talk about taking all sorts of body types
(04:30):
and presentations into account. Yeah, and Sunny Orham is a
queer style expert who founded that style website quare that
I mentioned in twleven and they're the first trans blogger
to be sponsored by top Man. And Sunny described their
goal in founding Quare as fighting oppression through fashion because
(04:53):
they said fashion can absolutely be a form of activism
and this is something that we'll talk with all three
guests about in more detail in the episode. Well, and
that also echoes our episode from a while back on
a so called faction and the plus size blogging movement
that really started a number of years ago and it's
(05:14):
coming to its own um quite recently. Um. And then
finally we have Asia Agrey, who's the beauty editor at
auto Straddle, which is a site that we have referenced
on so many stuff I've never told you episodes. And
in addition to auto Straddle, Asia also leads the style
blog Fit for Phem and as an advocate for queer
(05:34):
women of color. Yeah, so this is such a fantastic conversation,
if I do say so myself, thanks to our really
fascinating and talented guests. So should we let the people
hear it? Absolutely, let's roll to get started. I'd love
to have you guys just introduce yourselves and tell our
(05:58):
listeners what you do. So so an We'll start with you. Hi,
I'm Stunny or might run the fashion website quare q
w E a R. And it's a style website for
people who transcend social norms through fashion, performance and gender expression.
And I'm based in Boston. I am Asia Girey. I
(06:18):
am the current beauty editor at auto Straddle, which is
the largest independent news media website for queer women as
well as the Gosh. I guess to call me the
founding editor of Fit for a FM, which I've been
working on since two thousand and eight as a as
a place and source of inspiration for fens together and
(06:38):
get inspiration and just kind of find their own people
when it comes to style and navigating the world as
a fem My name is Leon Woo and I am
the founder and CEO Sharp and that's sharp with an
E at the end uh suiting And we make classic
and modern clothing for all genders. Okay, so if you
(07:00):
could also now fill me in on your backgrounds how
I'm really curious about how you guys each ended up
in the fashion and fashion adjacent realms. Sunny, do you
want to start? Yeah? So I kind of fell into it. Um.
I was doing music in college, and then when I graduated,
(07:22):
I started exploring my identity and style more and I
kind of just fell into it. I discovered fashion blogging,
and I decided to try to create a space that
was uniquely queer, where we could all see each other
and where I could share my outfits that I was
discovering I loved. And then it just it just grew
(07:43):
from there. I just kept kept blogging, and people wrote
in and asked questions, and people started writing for us,
and it grew into what it is today. Did you
find that people really felt that they needed what you
were putting out there? Yeah? People were immediately drawn to
it because there was so little um advice for for
(08:04):
queer people. Um, I mean, for for me representing people
who are female assigned birth, but trying to find men's
clothes that fit that was really like, um, that was
a need. I mean, we didn't have companies like Sharp
yet so people just wanted any advice they could get.
What about you, Asia, how did you end up in
the fashion realm? Kind of a similar story? Um in
(08:26):
two thousand eight, what I started style blogs or both
new and really sort of blowing up in the biguitous everywhere.
And I didn't see myself and any of them. I didn't.
I didn't see a lot of women of color to start,
and I didn't really see any that were queer women,
especially queer women of color. And I've been the kind
(08:49):
of person that people always have been like, I love
what you're wearing, I love your makeup, I love this
and that, and who came to me for advice and
wanted me to shopping with them? Um? And so I thought, like,
I love this and I should just put it out
there into the world, um and see what happens. I
didn't have any real kind of like lofty expectations. I
(09:10):
just wanted to like stake out my place in the
world of style blogs because it seems like something really
fun and cool and and I thought it would be great.
Um if I did it, then maybe other women would
do it. And that definitely happened, especially in San Francisco Away.
Back in the day, you had UM Lesbians and sf UM,
(09:33):
which had a couple of other offshoots that just became
sort of a very photo heavy representation of queer women
UM and queer and trance people actually and what that
style looked like at the time. And then from there
there were a few other ones that were more plus
sized fans and more focused on fans of color UM.
(09:55):
So it was really great to see myself become not
the only one out there UM. And that just over
time with the fem conferences that used to go on,
and UM auto Straddle coming into play and working on
things with them and writing for them a little bit,
just all kinds of snowball into this awesome thing where
another beauty editor, why do you think a blog like
(10:17):
fit for fem or auto straddle? Why is it important
to show feminine fashion that's different from like more traditional
quote unquote beauty magazines like Glamour? How did how did
those differ from the more mainstream feminine fashion, right, and
not to insinuate that straight feminine women are just sort
(10:39):
of blindly doing what they're told or anything, but I
think especially for fems, and this was really highlighted in
the post that Sonny did featuring fourteen fans of color,
that was just incredible. Um. Being fem as a queer
woman or a trans woman is so radical in its
(10:59):
re clamation of femininity and in sort of hijacking it
away from a very heterosexual world, in a very sort
of binary world that has very very strong and pervasive
ideas about what women are supposed to look and act like. Um.
And it's interesting being a mother of a straight teenager
(11:19):
as well, watching how that influence in the media and
the media representation of women in general is so negative
and so laden with with just these horrible ideas that
that tell women what they're supposed to look and act like.
And I feel like when as a queer woman or
a transwoman, you embrace all of that femininity um, both
(11:42):
inside and outside. Aesthetically, it's it says a lot. It's
it's a very political statement, and it is really difficult
to navigate the world in that way because at the
first glance, the first take is sort of like, this
is for all consumption, this is for the male gase um,
(12:03):
and constantly fighting against that is you have to be
really strong to do that. Yeah, I definitely want to
put a pen in the political statement comment for sure. Um,
but Leon, I want you to tell our listeners how
you got involved in the fashion world. Yes, so Ever,
since I was little, I've always have a strong desire
(12:23):
or love for menouness wear. Um, Like I wanted to
wear my dad's clothes growing up. Um, I would actually
literally sneak into his closet and try on his clothes,
put on his ties, you know, always watch him tie
and tie in the mirror. I was just fascinated by it.
And you know, I'd read kind of GQ like on
(12:43):
my owner in secret as us growing up. And um,
you know, when I was twenty one, just out of college,
I joined a drag king troop called the Lost Boys
in Los Angeles, and through there, you know, I kind
of learned the art of of styling or fashioning masculinity
(13:04):
on stage. I quickly became the one who was the
organizer of all costumes for my troop. Um that later
extended throughout the years and I joined another troop called
the Beauty Kings of Los Angeles as well, and became
from a co producer of a show that's a queer
(13:25):
gender bending show called Bent so you know that all
of that has kind of progressed up through about a
year ago when Sharp got crazy busy, um in a
good way. Uh. And you know, in terms of Sharp
and how that started, you know, UM, I did have
a fashion design concept right before I went to business school,
(13:46):
UH called Fade Designs, and we focused on kind of
butched swimwear as an alternative means of of you know,
wearing uh swimsuits that did not fit into the very
buying ary um swimwear uh industry. So uh that was
about to go into production, and then instead I went
(14:07):
to business school and that was super busy, and all
I could do is focus on networking and meeting my
classmates and recruiting there um and studying. Uh. And then
after business school, you know, I got kind of comfortable
my rather corporate job right after. But then you know,
more and more of my friends are getting married or
(14:29):
attending weddings where they wanted to wear suits. And I
had made some connections in school with Taylor's in various
cities internationally. Um, during my travels, it was just something
I was checked out. When I was on a business
school trek or trip with my classmates, I would talk
to different Taylor's. UM I talked to Taylor's in Saville Row,
(14:51):
in London, UH, in Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, New York
UH and you know something, I noticed that there was
always a specific process that they all did as a
rather archaic um UH segment of fashion, and I wanted
to kind of revolutionize that. I also knew a special
(15:13):
way and how to measure people who identified similar as me,
like people who identify as either masculine of center, masculine leaning,
or trans men. And I knew how to fit clothes
on people who identified exactly this way. So UM I
started Sharp actually as a side operation, and UM started
(15:34):
making suits for friends and myself. Again, weddings was a
big reason for doing that, and within the first year
of UH existing as a business, we sold a hundred suits.
And that's when I kind of took the leap of
faith to leave my very financially secure corporate job and
(15:55):
jump full time into Sharp. We had a Kickstarter we
planned for within the first two months, and we raised
sixty nine K, exceeding our goal of six c K.
And after that we raised some more funds from friends
and family, and you know the rest is kind of
it just kind of took off and we're heading in
(16:15):
a direction where uh, we are being all inclusive. Uh,
not just two people in my immediate community, but anybody
who wants to wear sharp cloth clothing. So you'll see
a lot of campaigns this year where we are branching
out a little bit more um mainstream and trying to
get them to be aware of uh you know, what
(16:37):
the brand is and what it was aspired by. Okay,
well so and really anybody can pick up this question
who wants to go first? But I'm really interested in
how uh you guys feel the queer fashion scene has changed,
evolved and grown from when you first developed an interest
(16:58):
in clothes and fashion, um, all the way up to
when you started working professionally and and now today. I
mean I've seen a huge evolution just from when I
started queer and it's now been almost five years. Even
looking for people to feature, it was hard to find
people who really had their own sense of style, um,
(17:20):
because when when there's so little representation of queer style, you, um,
it's hard to figure out how to address I mean,
like you're there's like Shane from the L Word and
then you know, Ellen degenerous, and it's just like these
a few celebrities here and there. And then I mean,
of course we had we had Asia already for for
(17:41):
fem style, but um yeah, it's just people didn't really
know how to dress and we're asking lots of questions,
simple questions like how do I match my belt to
my shoes or something. And as time went on, I
started to see a growth in everyone. Um they started
experimenting with path turns, with different styles, and it just
(18:03):
seems like the queer community through social media was starting
to develop a sense of style. And it's just been
really amazing to watch everyone grow. Every year someone comes
out with something different. It's just really amazing. I um, Leon,
when you did all that the drag Troops, was that
like the early two thousands, mid mid two thousand's. Yes, yeah,
(18:26):
I feel like I came out way too late in life.
It's one of my big regrets. I didn't know, but
I feel like I came out in the very early
two thousands and just sort of belossomed in a time
through the mid to to late two thousand's when something
just really special was happening in the queer queer world
(18:47):
in terms of just like creativity and performance and music
and and that's so much of that manifested in style. UM.
I feel so lucky to have been there for all
of that, and I miss There's a lot I miss
about those days. There's a lot that I'm happy to
leave in the past. But I just I don't know
(19:07):
what's happened, and I think that there's a lot of
really incredible stuff happening now. But it's almost like, because
there was so much that we still were working towards
and fighting for as a queer community at large, those
spaces and that community was sacred in a different way,
(19:28):
and and because it was almost denser, it was more
powerful in those sort of create creative realms. Not that
that doesn't exist now. I just feel like it's become
more dilute across the board, which is great because it
means that it's reaching more people and people have more
options and more roads to go down. But yeah, it's
it's been a very interesting shift, I think the last
(19:50):
ten tenor so years. Yeah, I have to agree with
both Sonny and Asia. Yeah, I have seen a lot
of development. It's uh since the two thousand's UM, but
I feel like the biggest movement is definitely happening right now.
I mentioned earlier that I started I tried to start
a design concept right before I headed off to business school,
(20:13):
which is around two thousand and five, two thousand six,
Me and another friend who was very passionate about queer
fashion of Vanessa Craig actually co produced, uh what could
have been one of the first butch fashion shows, although
I'm sure other things were happening in various cities. Um
And you know, it's mostly our friends in the community
(20:35):
that came out to support that, and it was a
really great event that I felt very fulfilled with. But
it was hard to bring that outside of the scope
of the community. And I think right now, because things
are really ursioning, is it is a time to to
do that. And so that's what I'm trying to do
with SHARP is basically bring social impact through commerce and
(20:57):
expand a little bit further so people are more are
aware of these other identities. Um and there's so many,
as you can see, with all the various queer fashion
brands that are out there, UM, I can probably count
at least you know, thirty, probably fifty of them out
(21:18):
there in the US and Canada. And um, all of
these different brands in a sense represent a different type
of identity in in the queer fashion space, and you know, uh,
people are more interested there. I think people are wanting
to see more than the standard UM offering that's currently
(21:39):
in the fashion industry. And UM, you know, I'm just
kind of writing this wave and seeing where it goes
and finally having a chance to to fulfill my passion
will lee on how big is the queer fashion designing
community and what is funding like, I mean, is it
the same for more quote unquote mainstream fashion. Yeah. So
(22:02):
I will start out by saying that UM, finding capital
UM for fashion brands is particularly hard in general if
you're just looking across the various UH industries for startups. UM.
That said, being a queer fashion brand adds another layer
of challenges to it. I think that people are more
(22:24):
technology focused, So the fact that Sharp is moving more
UM and opening up our line of business to e
commerce certainly helps. But if you're just a brick and
mortar fashion brand, it's very very difficult. I mentioned before
that we raised we surpassed our goal for Kickstarter, and
(22:45):
that's because we have enormous support from the community. And
that was really exciting for me to see. Um, we
had some support and we raised over a hundred k
from friends of family, and now we're expanding to you know,
in a sense cold pitching to the average person, and
that is definitely experienced because, um, I have to sit
(23:07):
there and explain exactly how we were inspired and what
the background of our story is, and then I have
to kind of bridge the gap and say why are
how are we going to become successful as you know
any x y Z fashion brand out there? Um. So
that's definitely the challenges that I'm facing right now. But
(23:28):
I think, um, you know, with our expansion, which you're
going to see on e commerce, uh, that I think
we have a real shot at it. So I'm excited
to see where that goes. Is the e commerce queer
fashion industry and those sales? Are they driven by social media?
Do you think kids who are I mean, I say kids,
(23:49):
but it's really multiple generations? Um is it? You know
kids who are finally maybe coming out and they are
looking to blogs and webs it's like yours and saying,
oh my gosh, I don't have it in my x
y Z small town, but I can at least get
it online. Are you hearing from people like that? Yeah?
So I think you said keyword, which is kids. We
(24:12):
definitely have a lot of kids following all of us, um, myself,
Sonny and Asia, and that's great because then we get
to to let them know as they're growing and maturing
as adults that hey, there's a space for you in
the future. Um. Again though their kids, so they can't
really afford you know, um, items that are several hundred dollars,
(24:33):
which you know, some of our suits do cost that
much money. UM. But the hope is to stick around
until that group can actually partake in and and be
purchasers of this these items. UM. But a lot of
I think more effective UM marketing goes into digital advertising
(24:55):
right now um, and you will see the older crowds
and Facebook. So we have a campaign that's gonna be
coming on Facebook soon. UM. And just a lot of
connections or word of mouth, especially for somebody that's being
referred to a Taylor so to speak. They want to
know that that somebody else that they know, uh really
(25:15):
well has a nice personal connection with their Taylor and
it's referral based that way. So Sonny and Asia have
you guys heard from members of the younger generation about
fashion and and sexual identity and sexual orientation. Yes, Um,
I hear from kids all the time. Um. A lot
(25:35):
of the stories are heartbreaking, but some are more uplifting. UM.
A lot of kids who are struggling with their identity
and feel like they need to fit into a box. Um.
They say like, I think, I think I'm attracted to girls,
but I don't know, like you know, they get all
confused and it's really cute. Um. Um. And lots of
(25:58):
kids right in with issue us with their school or
their parents in terms of like not letting them dress
the way they want to. So UM, I've given a
lot of what I've tried to give a lot of
advice to those people and um. But yeah, just a
lot of a lot of kids are also able to
express themselves more now and they have all these new
(26:21):
terms for how they identify and that's really cool to see. Yeah,
it's it's a little bit bizarre to have started for
a FEM when I was in my twenties and now
in my thirties, UM and seeing that shift because I
don't know necessarily that my audience's age has reflected my
own over. I mean, only on the Internet can you
be called like two traditional and old school and high
(26:42):
concept in the same sense. Um So, what I get
mostly a fit for a FM because it's um so specific,
is women who come to me and they say, when
I came out and I realized I was when I
realized that I was queer. I thought that that automatically
meant I had to cut my hair, I had to
(27:03):
put on men's clothes, I had to be more androgyness
or butchet up. And it never really felt like me.
I just felt like this was the only way to
be seen. Um as as gay or lesbian are queer,
and ultimately they stumble upon fit for them and they
think to themselves, whoa like I can do this? This
(27:24):
this person is clearly doing this, and then you know,
finding things that I connect to or or other people
it's saying, it's totally a thing, and suddenly it becomes
an option for women who, do you know, want to
reclaim their feminity and be out there and the world
is of them. Leon, Did you have anything else to
add to that, um No, non particular. Well you guys, Asia,
(27:49):
you directly touched on this earlier, but you guys have
also touched on the idea of fashion as a part
of activism and of making your idea entity clearer to
yourself clear to other people. So do you feel that
fashion is a branch of activism and and how how
(28:11):
is it a branch of activism? Well, I mean, I
think we're seeing with North Carolina that the battle is
not over. Um. There are still really really hard times
being fought across this country for a lot of folks
who are just fighting for the right to exist. And
human beings are very visual, and so when being who
(28:35):
you are visually and and being identified puts you at
risk or means that your rights can be trampled on
or you can be discriminated against, and there's no repercussion
for that. That that's definitely activism to be who you
are and to be out and sort of not compromised
on that front. And that's really powerful and scary for
(28:57):
a lot of people. Um. And the more you can
just support them and help give them courage and help
them to be authentic and true to themselves, that's a
really privileged place to be in for me personally. Um.
Just like Asia was saying, it's really hard to just
move about the world. Um, I guess this is a podcast,
so you can't see what I look like. But I
(29:18):
identify as non binary and trans, and you know, sometimes
I pass as males. Sometimes I don't, especially probably over
this podcast, I sound more like I have a high voice.
But so I just have to kind of every time
I get dressed, deal with what people's reactions are going
to be, and still try to be true to myself.
(29:39):
Like right now, I have a bun in my hair,
which makes people read me as more female, But sometimes
if I put on a bow tie, I can pass.
So you never really know what's going to happen, and
it's always kind of an adventure going into the bathroom.
So yeah, I think for in terms of just the
community at large, even people who aren't non binary, I
(30:00):
think it's really important to recognize that we that the
fashion industry puts UM standards on all of us, and
even if you identify UM along the binary UM. Just
like Asia was saying, if you were dressing it, like,
if you're a woman dressing in a body positive way,
(30:20):
like your plus size and you're showing off your middrift,
like that is activism in itself because you're saying that
you are proud of who you are instead of trying
to hide it. Yeah. I think that visual activism is
a big part of of what Sharp does and there's
still a law work to be done. I mentioned during
(30:41):
the south By south West panel that we had suited
on the red carpet Phyllis Naggi, who was the screenwriter
of Carol as she was up for a nomination. She
was very visible and you know, yeah, she looked great
on the red carpet. Uh. She took a chance by
doing that, and she was very brave. She's definitely a
(31:01):
pioneer in in queer fashion because of that. Um. We
also flew to Monroe, Louisiana to deliver a tuxedo for
a high school student who was initially banned from um
uh her ability to wear a tuxedo to her own prom.
When that band was lifted. Then we were there to
(31:22):
provide her a suit and she got to wear it
to a prom and have fun with her friends. UM.
We're still, you know, always looking to see, you know,
how we can provide back to the community and um,
you know advance kind of uh this these new styles
and identities into the fashion world. UM. So yeah, I
(31:45):
think there's still a lot of work to be done.
Even within the queer community, there's a bunch of sub labels. Um,
even being a transman or transgender individual, there's still sub
labels like trans feminine and trans masculine. And people have
asked me, you know, like which one do you identify with?
And I'm like, isn't interesting how we're trying to get
(32:06):
away from labels, but we give up more and more labels.
And I think, you know, the consensus is, once we
have so many labels that everyone has their own label,
then maybe we won't need them anymore and a person
will just be a person because you can, ideally, I mean,
you can essentially have um a different label to per
day to right you think about it, you know, I
(32:29):
think for us to be able to label ourselves or
not label ourselves as we wish, Yeah, it's a choice. Yeah,
do you think how long do you think it's going
to take or do you think it's going to happen?
But how long do you think it's going to take
for more mainstream media outlets to catch up with that
idea of not everybody is on this binary guys, not
(32:52):
everybody uses the same one or two labels. Do you
see that happening right now or do you ever see
it happening at all? I feel like it's starting to
trickle in a little bit. But and I think especially
with like younger characters in the media who are trying
to figure themselves out. And I definitely know with younger
(33:15):
people being the mom of a teenager, like, they just
don't care. That's that's my take. They just seriously don't care,
and they're not really interested in categorizing, which is fascinating
because I feel like human beings, like your brain, just
before you can even consciously think about it, wants to categorize.
It wants to organize things and to meet little boxes.
(33:38):
Um for whatever reason. I'm sure people who studied that
sort of thing of the name for it. But um, yeah,
it's really interesting to see how that is gonna kind
of become more and more prevalent in media representation. We're
already seeing some mainstream designers Alexander Wayne Gucci showing androgynous
designs on the runway. Um and um, you know, the
(34:02):
the kind of the slim fit style that we're seeing
a lot in the mainstream is is very androgynous. Um uh,
you know, it kind of takes on more of a
diamond shape, and that is especially for hiding curves or
or body parts that are more defining as masculine versus feminine. Um.
So we are seeing that and it is, in my opinion,
(34:25):
different from the nineties campaign that you saw a lot
with Calvin Klein and that sort of androgyny. This is
more of, uh, this is something that's rather than oh,
I'm gonna pick that label because they're going through an
androgyny trend, this is more of a we're gonna include
this going forward kind of a fashion movement. So I
(34:47):
do feel that, you know, mainStreet is catching onto quart
fashion as well. What of sonny did you have something
abb Oh? Sure? Um yeah. Well, as I mentioned in
the panel to um, I do I I appreciate that
the industry is doing a lot of unisex uh androgynous lines,
(35:12):
but at the same time, it's very limited to white,
essentially female assigned birth skinny people. So I'm really hoping
that we can expand that to show that an androgyny
can be for anyone of all body types. And um,
I'm just personally, I'm really hoping someday that that stores
(35:33):
won't feel such a need to separate things into women's
and men's sections because we're all shapes so differently that
it's really I mean, uh, like yes, men maybe taller
in general or or wider, but it's just there's so
there's so much diversity in body type among all of
(35:54):
us that I really don't think we need to separate
it nearly as much as people think. And I field
the most free if I can just shop um when
all the clothes are just together, because then I'm like
like those like those teenagers, I'm just not caring about
like bolts that I'm just having fun. Yeah, it is
(36:14):
interesting to watch. Kristen and I did an episode on
essentially feminism in fashion, but from the perspective of feminism
being used as a trend and the argument of well,
is this a negative because feminism is being used or
is it a positive because at least feminism is getting
(36:35):
a platform and it's part of a larger discussion. Do
you feel like something similar is happening with more androgynous
looks or with um fashion that's sort of for everyone.
Do you feel like androgyny is a trend or do
you feel like more mainstream fashion is really starting to
adopt more of a fashionist for everyone ethos and I
(36:57):
think people are taking these terms like androgyny, tomboy, um,
a gender, and a lot of brands are just kind
of throwing it around and it's really just code for like,
here are some clothes that look really good on skinny
people and don't particularly you know, have a gender to them.
(37:17):
Often they're more masculine leaning actually, So yeah, I do
think it's it's a trend that people are kind of using,
and um, I wish people were a little more careful
with their words because, um, there are some people who
really do identify as a gender or androgynous um and
(37:38):
these people, most of them aren't represented by this group. Yeah.
I almost feel like if to be a little bit
of a music nerd, if you go back into like
punk and new wave and those times and like the
late sixties through the mid eighties, I mean you had
(37:58):
I feel like you had almost true like a gender
stuff where um like adam Ant would wear you know,
rouffaly shirts and kind of very tight hip hoggy sort
of pants and a lot of a lot of detail. Um,
and then you had just sort of the straight up
and down. And again this goes to what you're talking about. Sunny, look,
(38:21):
that's just like a plain white shirt and you kind
of st Laurn has actually been doing a lot of
stuff that looks like that, UM, but at least that
gives more of a balance to where you see masculine
people wearing sort of more feminine or fussy or frilly
clothing rather than just everybody kind of meeting in this
(38:41):
this so called androgynous to find middle middle of the road,
which isn't really because it doesn't incorporate anything on the
feminine side of the spectrum. Right. You know, UM, A
gender is not just about a bunch of butches and suits.
It's UM. It's playing with different types of not just tailoring,
but also draping UM and really kind of not using
(39:06):
gender basically as a way of styling. It's UM using
clothing in a way that UM doesn't have anything to
do with that. If you look at the origins of tailoring,
they did initially start tailoring, uh for people who were
male or or for men, and this is back in
(39:27):
the day and during the Renaissance era. Everyone was wearing
kind of um draping kind of clothing and then Tayloring
came into play. This is around the rise of Christianity,
and um you know, it was only for men at
that point. I think we're at a point in fashion
where it doesn't really matter. You can um play with
(39:51):
different shapes and um uh. You know. That's another reason
why I chose suits, is because I'd like to with
suits that typically are very masculine type of symbol and
clothing and and just be able to suit all types
of people women, um uh, those who are female identified,
(40:13):
draping it off the shoulders, wearing them with shorts, you know,
I mean, just playing around with it, and we're finding
that a lot of people are actually liking these styles.
Um So yeah, sorry that wasn't in a very direct answer,
but it's I could talk about this, and I didn't
want to go into like a ten minutes feel, you know,
(40:34):
but hopefully that gives kind of an idea of of
you know, uh a gender and and how that pertains
to fashion. I feel like it's not only gender in
terms like androgeny to get thrown around for and and
feminism that get thrown around for sort of trendy fashion reasons,
but also issues of race and ethnicity, I'm interested in
(40:59):
your take on and where the place is for women
of color in or you know, feminine identifying people in
this discussion about queer fashion, because, like you were saying,
Sonny for instance, so much of that quote unquote androgyn
his fashion does tend to focus on skinny white people.
(41:21):
So what's your what's your take on the space for
feminine or female identifying people of color. One thing that
we talked about and kept going back to it ourselves
by Self West panel was give people who aren't represented
more seats at the table. Everybody agreed on that. Everybody
was on the same page about if you want to
(41:42):
if you're a mainstream fashion brand and you want to
have a play at androgyny or you want to incorporate
more women of color on your runways or just people
of color on your runways, even bring more of those
people to the table. You can't, you know, work on
those con steps and have it to be divorced from
(42:03):
from those folks having representation and stay and what that
should look like, what that should feel like, how that
should be marketed. Um So, I think that's just one
of the key pieces. UM. I just worked on a
story um at Auto Straddle that featured Cora Harrington, who
runs the lingerie addict um her addict rather and um,
(42:25):
it's a it's a great her blog is amazing. It's
just all it's a it's a lingerie drain. Basically, you
just look at this wonderful, beautiful, incredible lingerie. And so
she worked with some other people on this idea of like,
let's let's do our own photo shoot representing these sprain
summer trends um and work with little indie brands um
(42:48):
to just sort of put out into the world like
what this should look like, what lingerie marketing campaigns should
look like if they wanted to be representative of a
diverse group of people. And they had an older woman,
they had Cora, who's a black woman, um, and she's
queer and she's gorgeous, but and she also rock natural
hair um. And then there was a non binary queer
(43:12):
woman as well. UM. And there was one other one
other galic it's escaping me right now um. And so
they came together and they did this incredible, really beautiful
photo shoot. UM. But even then, because Cora is slender
and has insane bone structure. UM. You know, some people
(43:33):
are like how well, how is this different? How is
she different from the norm? And it's because she's a
queer woman, and she's a queer woman of color, and
she's darker than most black women that are featured in
lingerie campaigns, and she's a little bit more her physique
is a little bit more muscular than is usually considered
(43:55):
acceptable and lingerie campaigns. I mean, I can go on
and on and on about what makes her unique and special. UM,
But it's interesting to have that conversation, and it's wonderful
to see people sort of taking it into their own
hands and putting what they want to see out into
the world. Yeah, that's one of my goals with Quaire
(44:15):
is to just provide this platform for everyone to express themselves.
And I try to keep keep myself out of the
equation as much as possible. So if it's UM, if
it's a column written by a queer woman of color, UM,
just making sure that it's really all hers and then
(44:36):
I'm just you know, pressing publish. UM. So that's that's
just really important to our values at Queer, that we
give everyone a voice and that it's not dominated by
UM any one voice. You know, UM as sharp as
a business. UM, we do have to UM. It's it's
(44:57):
a very tricky balance, I think, you know, UM, as
we've you know, bottom line is going to determine whether
we survive or whether I can continue to do this
or not. UM. So you know in our next campaign, UM,
you will see um uh very slender cis I guess
so to speak, Caucasian guy wearing um our suits. And
(45:21):
that is because we are wanting to be all inclusive
to you know, the average guy who's sitting behind the computer,
who um really wants to buy something that's more fashion
forward and um also you know maybe hipster and as
cool with you know that we're inspired by the l
g B t q UH community. UM So in the
(45:44):
product shots you will see that. But in all my
editorials on the runway, I'm always including all um ethnicities,
all body types, all uh genders uh to you know,
as kind of an ode to who we are and
where we came from and who we're going to continue
to be. UM. But you know, again with marketing and
(46:04):
product marketing, we have to kind of take care of
our bottom line, so to speak. So it's gonna be
a tricky balance. But I hope I hope the community understands,
because um, it's it's better for a brand like Sharp
to be around someday then for us, you know, not
to exist at all, and then there's no work that
I can really do at that point. Yeah, in terms
of the community understanding, UM, I'm always I'm in a
(46:27):
unique position to get to talk to people like you Leon,
who um are running your business and have all these
things you're dealing with, and then the community who's having
all of this feedback that's often negative, and I'm trying to, like,
you know, help balance um explaining to the community like no,
I'm serious that these people have to charge this much
(46:49):
like they worked all the numbers. This is just what
they have to charge. You know, We're We're sorry it's
too much for you, you know that kind of thing.
So UM. So yeah, I hope fully we can bridge
and understanding alongst each other. Yeah. It is a delicate balance. Um.
I I know, I talked to Nick Casey a lot
about his business with his footwear swear, and it's like, UM, well,
(47:13):
if you want something that's made uh with this sort
of level of authenticity and quality, then it's going to
cost this much money. Um. Also just bear in mind
that we are dealing with the supply chain that is
also very gendered and binary, and so if we want
to change things slightly, that costs us money and so
(47:34):
unfortunately that comes out in our retail pricing. And you know,
we've kind of kind of stick together to support each other. Um.
You know, uh, it's it's better, you know, to kind
of pay a little extra um for brands like this
to be around, and then when we get to a
point where we've changed things all the way vertically, then
(47:55):
the prices can come down right right. I feel like
it's just something that takes time, and a lot of
folks who are consumers simply don't understand because they're not
they're not in your position, or they're not well verse,
or they don't know a super ton about the background
of what it takes to do that. You see that
in like making vegan clothing or vegan products or ethically
(48:18):
sourced thing. It is expensive. There's a reason that fast
fashion is fast fashion, and it's so so so cheap,
and it's very easy to ignore the fact of why
that is. Um. But it's impossible to ignore as a
as a business person and as someone who is very
intentional about buying ethically sourced things, or about supporting a
(48:40):
queer business. Um, I mean, I think those are excellent
points in terms of balancing the business against the constant
sort of social outcry for no. But I want, I
want my fashion, and I want it now. Um. I mean,
I think it's an excellent point, and I want to
sort of start to wrap it up. I've kept you
(49:01):
good people too long, but I want to get from
each of you, uh, some advice if you have it,
for young listeners out there, um, whether they're queer or not,
maybe just kids who feel like they're different and outside
of the mainstream, What is your advice for them as
really fabulous fashion people, two kids who maybe feel just
(49:25):
a little different, sunny, Let's start with you. Yeah, just
um it's cheesy, but just be yourself, I mean you
you really everyone experiments to figure out what feels right.
So just try things on, you know. I I've had
a lot of embarrassing fashion moments in my day and
it was all part of the process of, um, finding
(49:47):
my style, and I'm still discovering it. So just try
to be free, uh, and just surround yourself by friends
who support you in whatever stage you're in, and who
don't make you feel like you have to conform to anything.
I agree. Uh, please don't go to some of my
older posts, but you could if you wanted to to
(50:09):
see how my style has evolved over the years. It's
just the nature of getting dressed as a human being.
Things cycle in and out and and it's exciting. It's
exciting to take part of those things. It's exciting to
go against the grain, and how you feel is more
important than anything else. UM. I would say one of
(50:30):
the more interesting things that I discovered moving from the
Bay Area to Boston four years ago was how reticent
people are to buy second hand or thrifted or clothing
that that's not brand brand new. And I feel like
for a lot of young people who maybe don't have
access to a lot of money and can't spend what
(50:50):
they would ideally like to to achieve the style that
they want to represent or experiment or play with. UM,
don't be scared of that if there's nothing weird about it.
I can't believe I had to say that to so
many clients as a personal stylist, but sometimes it's one
of the only ways to get the look that you
want from older clothing or are just there's no way
who can buy retail off the shelf, but you can
(51:12):
absolutely get that if you go and hunt for it,
um in the bins or at someplace like Buffalo Exchange
or crossroads where that stuff is a lot more accessible
than it is brand new. So just have fun and
don't be script out by any of that stuff. And yeah, nice,
thank you so much. UM, could you go down the
line again and tell our listeners where they can find
(51:35):
you online and where they can find out more about
your work, Sunny, let's start with you. Yeah, so my
website is Queer Fashion dot com. It's spelled q w
e a R fashion dot com and that's where you
can see everything we've done. You can find my style
blog Fit for a f M at Fit for a
FM dot com, Um, just like it sounds, and auto
(51:58):
Strato dot com is where you can find a lot
of my style and beauty coverage. Um, and that is
also just how it sounds. And if you want to
follow me on Instagram or Twitter, they're my is dear
jones e j O n E s E Y. I
know Instagram is super popular, so cool and uh, for
sure if We've got spring summer collection that's launching in
(52:20):
the next month or two and you can find that
at www dot Sharp s H A r P E
Suiting s U I T I n g um dot
com or find us on Twitter, Instagram, uh, Facebook, and
the Twitter and Instagram is at Sharp Suiting. Great. Thank
you guys so much. It was such a pleasure talking
(52:42):
to you. I could honestly talk to you, like for
three more hours. But thank you for having us. Yeah,
thank you so much for having us. And I just
want to say Leon, Sonny and Asia so much for
(53:03):
joining us. I really think that our listeners will identify
with a lot of what they said, and I was
so pleased to really be able to represent these fashion
viewpoints on our show. And I'm also looking forward to
hearing from listeners who are in the style and design fields, um,
because I'm sure that you have even more insights to
(53:25):
talk about this, and also listeners within the l g
B t Q community. I mean, do these issues resonate
with you? Have there been challenges finding the fashion that
really fits who you are both inside and out? Um? So, Mom,
Stuff at how stuff works dot com is where you
(53:46):
can send all of your emails. Of course, you can
always tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or message us
on Facebook, and we've got a couple of messages to
share with you right now. Well, I have a letter
here from Olivia and Kristen. She has some questions in
here too for us to address. Okay, so Olivia says, first,
(54:10):
I just wanna say thank you for doing what you do.
I love listening to your thoughtful conversations on the podcast
while I'm doing everything from working to cleaning, and it
totally brightens my day. I was listening to your most
recent episode about the lesbian wage bump, and the idea
that many lesbians never count on being attached to a
male breadwinner really got me thinking, I, a straight white
CIS lady, have more or less always counted on being
(54:32):
in a partnership with a male breadwinner. I knew from
a very early age that I wanted to get married someday,
and I figured my marriage would work the way my
parents does. But my mom lends a significant hand since
she's back to work after taking more time off when
my sister and I were little, I've never been encouraged
to make being a primary breadwinner a priority. This is
presumably in part because I'm female, but also because I
(54:54):
come from a family of creatives who always put following
your passions before making money. My decisions about my career
have been made accordingly. As a working artist, I'm much
more concerned with the career trajectory that will fuel my
passions than with what will be a stable source of
income for a future family. This feels like a betrayal
of both feminism and my boyfriend. I dislike the fact
(55:16):
that I'm mentally bank on this safety net when thinking
about my future, and it feels terribly unfair that I'm
primarily concerned with chasing my passions while my boyfriend has
to balance that with having a career stable enough to
support any family we might eventually have, though he assures
me it's totally fine. All this to say, I was
wondering if you could do an episode on reconciling one's
(55:38):
radical feminism with being in typically quote unquote female positions.
Does this kind of thing grind other women's gears? How
many of us are in those positions by choice? How
do you navigate being a feminist while pursuing your dreams
on another person's dime? I mean, I think that that
is all about partnership gender as saw you know, I
(56:00):
mean there are times in long term relationships when one
person kind of has to carry more of the weight
and it evens out most likely at some point. And
I don't think that that it necessarily means that you're
being a bad feminist. Yeah, And and the same sentiment
goes for what job you choose. I mean, if you
(56:23):
wanted to be a prima ballerina, I'm thinking of like
something super you know, traditionally feminine. That doesn't matter if
that is your passion. And it would be one thing
if you were trying to take advantage and and get
a leg up over your partner. But it sounds like
you guys are in really open, clear honest communication with
(56:45):
one another that you really want to pursue your passion
and your boyfriend, who sounds like will become your husband
one day or you know, you guys are just in
it for the long haul. Um, it sounds like he's
on board with the two and so No, like Christen said,
I don't think that makes you a bad feminist. And
I don't think that if you're in a traditionally uh
(57:08):
female coded or male coded line of work, or female
dominated or male dominated line of work. I don't think
either one speaks to what kind of feminist you are.
I don't think that your passion or your skills speaks
to feminism. I think you can be a feminist and
be in a super traditional feminine role, female role, or
(57:30):
you could be a construction worker. You know what I mean, right?
I mean because I think we also conflate feminist and
feminine and consider that you know things that are feminine
or somehow the antithesis of feminism, and that's not the
point at all. So you know your own motivations and
it sounds like they're pure, and let your partner support you,
(57:53):
because that's what partnership is all about. So thanks for
your question. Um. I've got another letter here Natasha about
our lesbian wage Gap episode, and Natasha writes, I listened
to the Lesbian Wage Gap episode today while I was
out in the yard doing work, and I'm just really
glad you discussed it. As a queer woman who grew
up in a rural area and is continuing to work
(58:14):
in agriculture, and we'll live in a rural area all
my life. I really appreciated you talking about the members
of the queer community who live in rural areas and
the jobs we do. There's a big myth there's no
queer people in rural areas and we all want to
flee to the cities. So even your discussion of poverty
and the difficulty living and working in rural areas is
super appreciated by me, because so often we don't exist
(58:37):
in anything. I've really been enjoying listening to your podcasts
as I'm walking fields all day, So thank you and
keep up the good work. Well. Thank you, Natasha, and
for all of our listeners. If you want to send
us a let our moms stuff at how stuff works
dot com is where you can do that, and for
all of our social media as well as all of
(58:58):
our blogs, videos and podcasts with our sources so you
can learn more about queer fashion and our fabulous panelists today,
head over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com
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