Send in the Clowns

Anney and Samantha sit down with two hospital clowns to discuss what it takes to be a woman in clowning, with all of its up and downs. Join us as we talk empathy, the power of human connection, and tooters.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and awesome to stuff
I've never told to your protection of I heart Radiocasta words.
Every time we do these intros, I have to think
about it because the other show I do, we do
the intro differently, and it just trips me up every

(00:27):
single time. And from me, I start, I don't know why.
That silence for me brings in random thoughts, and then
I started laughing at my random thoughts. I was singing
a song on my head as you were saying it,
and I really just wanted to sing it, and I'm
like this, there's no reason for me to do this.
There there are plenty. There are plenty of but this
one just doesn't fit at all. Okay, it's just the
last song I heard as I was coming, you know,

(00:48):
into record. So the last song I heard before I
came into record was Come as you are Barton Fauna. Yeah,
it was on shuffle and that's what I got. Yes,
but we're not talking about Nirvana today. We are following
up on an episode we did a couple of weeks
ago about the history of female clowns, and for that episode,

(01:13):
we really wanted to get actual clowns to come in
and speak about their experiences, but due to scheduling, we
weren't able to for that episode. But we did find
two female clowns who are willing to speak with us,
and they were wonderful. It was a delight. They were wonderful.

(01:34):
I um was so inspired just about their commitment and
their love for it. It kind of had one of
those moments of like, h you scare me in makeup,
but I love what you do. Well. You even said
that in the in the interview and you're they were like,
but look, how cute and they were super cute. But
at the same time, I was like, look, no, some

(01:56):
things now they were amazing and they were are so
passionate and they just they're so loving the empathy they
had to have and just the things that they had
to handle. And I'm not even really trained as in
like the profession as counselor would you know, doctor, any
of that to be in that world and they just

(02:18):
sacrifice and because they're there. How they were like they're
there often four times a week or something, and I
was just like, wow, that's a lot to be and
that and again, they told so many amazing stories because
kids are amazing yes, um, and it was one of
those interviews. Right after we stopped recording, they told like
another amazing story. Were kind of bummed we stop recording

(02:43):
such a good story. They also did magic tricks and
they were bubbles and I filmed it. I know it
was coming good. Perfect. There was a tutor just just
too weird. Every time I hear tutor, though I hear
I think t U d o R. So I was
really confused the entire time. T U t o R
We're not talking about of it's literally t O O

(03:05):
t e R. Very important tool. Um. So you're going
to hear all of this and more. Uh yeah, so
let's get into the interview. Okay. So I like to
start these with a very basic Hi, thanks for joining us.
Could you tell us a bit about yourselves, who you are,

(03:26):
what you do while you're here? Yeah? Um, I'm Maya
and um I'm the program director for UH an organization
called Humorology Atlanta Ha, and I'm also health care clown.
Our organization is a health care clown organization and we
put um professional performers in children's hospitals to bring joy

(03:49):
to people in need of joy. So that's what that's
what I do in the hospital. I'm dctor Mimi, very
serious and professional. Yes, clown and um, yeah, I think
I'm here because I think I was asked to be
here because you're doing a thing on lady clowns, and

(04:10):
I am also a lady. For the record, just wander
in here. She was invited. Yeah, I'm actually busted into
your I was gonna say, I just met Gina in
the bathroom. I was like, hey, you want to come
hang out? Yeah? Essentially that did see absolutely it was
a weird moment. Not the first time for me, though.
It literally was like, oh, won't be the last. She's

(04:31):
coming to see me. Turn back around those weird pathroom
moments anyway, and you hi. I am January Kicky, and
I am one of the healthcare clowns with humorology Atlanta.
My doctor name is Dr TBD to be determined, m
forty years old. She still doesn't know what. You don't
tell people how old I am. Please stop this. She's

(04:54):
clearly not a day over twenty two. Everyone listening at home,
I have listening dewey skin and very young. Um, and
I'm also uh an improviser and an actress and a
writer and uh but this is kind of my main
gig and definitely the one that I love the most. Oh. Yeah,

(05:19):
we were so glad to have you here because we
did recently do an episode on the history of female
clowns and the present of female clowns and the future
of female clowns, and of course we wanted people to
come in with actual experience, not just as to researching
in our computer, to give it more depth. Um, could
you go into a little bit more about humroology Atlanta
or had you call it? Yeah? Sure, So our organization

(05:43):
is just about three years old. However, many of our
clowns have been doing this work for up to twenty
years here. So we were originally under the umbrella of
the Big actual Circus. We were part of a community
outreach program that they ran called um clown Care, which
existed in several cities in the United States. But when

(06:06):
the circus went bankrupt and we had to figure out
how to keep ourselves alive, so we started our own
nonprofit organization here in Atlanta and worked our butts off
to keep the program alive and to keep the clowns
in the hospital serving the kids and the families. And yeah,
so that's what we've been doing for the past three years.

(06:29):
Many of the same awesome clowns, but we like to
say newer, awesomer company. And now we've hired some new
clowns as well, so our team is changing. We've got
a team of twelve, twelve amazing clowns, amazing performers. So yeah,
it's awesome that we work in three different locations, uh

(06:49):
through through show through Children's Healthcare of Atlanta, who are
we are very very lucky to be working with. They
decided to continue the relationship after Big Apple one unitor
and we always work in pairs, so there's always two
clowns working each shift. Um, we have eight shifts a
week and uh we have we alternate Saturdays between two

(07:13):
of the hospitals, and so we have specific rounds that
we go on when we're in the hospital, you know,
like Okay, so today we're going to go to the
pick you and the emergency room, and we're going to
go to Affleck, which is where a lot of where
it's just where the cancer research and treatment is or
we're gonna go to infusion or that kind of thing.

(07:34):
And it changes from hospital to hospital, and from day
to day it's really cool. One of the reasons that
both of you are here is because a coworker of
mine and I think a mutual acquaintance of bars, Lauren Vogelbaumb.
She told me when I said, oh, I'm researching this
episode on clowns, and She's like, oh my gosh, I
have some people you should talk to, and I kind
of forgot. But there's this whole aspect of clowning, and
I think that is a big problem or at least

(07:56):
like a misconception when people think of this one particular
type of clowns. Sure, but there's all of this other
stuff and this like really beautiful work you're doing UM.
And I read that you're also expanding into UM senior
care facilities. Is that correct, Yes, so we are. We're
developing and have just done a pilot for our new program,

(08:17):
which is called the Exquisite Visit, and it's different take
on it's it's still clown but it's specifically geared towards
seniors and even more specifically towards memory care residents, and
it's all about trying to reach the client wherever they

(08:38):
are and to bring them out into whatever space they
exist in together with the clown. So it uses a
lot of you know, image like costume wise image from
the thirties, forties, fifties, and music from that time period
as well. It's a lot about the imagination and being

(08:58):
able to try level with the client wherever they want
to go and make things come to life for them
imagistically so that you can have adventures together and have
an emotional experience together. So are each patient or the
patients who are part of the program assigned a specific
person clown. No, the way that we have done it

(09:21):
so far, we've done it. We've done a pilot, a
six week pilot at Wesley Woods and we had five
so it was amazing. Yeah, it was great. And our
our senior clowns are a bit different. They're very elegant
and polite and manner full and really give attention to

(09:43):
specifically to each person and we go room to room
just like we do in the pediatric hospital. So we'll
go to the residence door and knock and ask if
we could come in for a visit, and then we
come in and try to provide them with an exquisite
visit where they are the star. Maybe they help us
in some way. Um, we asked them for advice. You know, like,

(10:05):
I'm not sure if this hat goes with this dress.
You know, what do you think should I put a
veil on it? Or uh, you know, asking them for
There was this one couple that is just stunning, amazing
and they've been married for over sixty years and it's
one of One thing that's different about going into the
senior facilities is that you're literally walking into someone's home.

(10:27):
So for the children, even though we have children who
are what we call frequent flyers, so kids who have
treatment that requires them to come back or perhaps requires
them to stay for longer periods of time, so they
get to know us and we develop a longer term
relationship with them. You're really going into this this room
where they have their most precious objects and everything they own.

(10:51):
Everyone they pictures of their whole history. And yeah, so
it's lovely to to meet them and get some smiles
and get some laughs, and you're helping reduced isolation and
help create a sense of community, which is really important. Absolutely.
Um do you I know before we started recording, we

(11:14):
were talking about, um, the other kind of task that
you've had to learn our our abilities or skill set.
You've had to get like to go into hospitals. You're
talking about hygiene, Yes, did you go into some of
that STUFFE Well, first question is how do you get
involved to become a clown? Excellent questions? This is yes, yeah. Um, well,

(11:39):
so I guess it's sort of a combination between a
traditional job and a theater job or or you know,
an acting role. Um where you come in for an
audition and people who are interested in the work and
feel that they have an appropriate skill set can send
us a letter of interest and a headshot and when
auditions come around, which is very very rare because this

(12:01):
job is so awesome that nobody leaves because it's the
best job ever consistent. Um, So adding people to the
team is a rarity, but everybody that we've added is amazing.
So UM. Then there's an audition process where you come
in and you do a couple of minutes of your
best material, and um, we'll put you through some exercises

(12:24):
and see if we can find this sort of person
who's the right fit for the rest of the team
and who has the artistic skills necessary and where we
can see a level of um heart and love and
vulnerability that we think would um be an appropriate match

(12:44):
for the emotional content of the work as well, because
I can imagine it's very stressful and very taxing. It is,
but it's also it's also very joyful and in that
you are allowing a child to be a child. You know,
you're not in there talking about what what next medication

(13:07):
they're going to get, or if they feel nauseous, or
what pain level and that they're at or something. We're
going in there and creating chaos and inviting them to play,
or sometimes we're going in there and we're soothing and
we're singing lullabys or you know, if you know, there
was one child that I was working with that just

(13:31):
had possibly a form of CP or something, but she
had a lot of spasms, and so the way to
go in there was to go in there with a
low energy and you uh, you make a connection, and
then she was able to calm them a little bit
and then start popping bubbles and she was delighted, you know,

(13:53):
she was laughing, and her caretaker was shocked, you know. UM.
And that's one of the other wonderful things says when
we go in there and we surprise the parents or
the caretakers because maybe this is the first time that
the child has smiled in weeks or or or left
or gotten saucy, or even moved or responded or tracked something. Yeah,

(14:18):
it's awesome, it's it's it takes when you're so when
you're coming into this, we have all of our clowns
have very different training backgrounds. Um. They are all professional
performers and they are professionally trained. UM. But when you
come to this, it's one of the biggest components is
having a heart of service and having a comfort with

(14:39):
every type of medical situation. And so it's not for everybody, UM,
and it's it's tough for us sometimes. And you have
to be able to stay in a state of being
hyper aware all the time because you're constantly re analyzing
every audience. I mean, your audience changes as every two minutes,

(15:01):
you know, and you're going into a completely different stress level,
completely different age, different gender. Um, maybe the kid is alone,
maybe families there, I mean, everything can be completely different
room to room. So you have to be able to
take in all of that information instantly so that you
can make the appropriate choice for the child. What do
they need in that moment and that's what we want
to be able to provide for them. Uh we uh,

(15:24):
we have essentially two hours on in the morning, and
then we have a lunch break for an hour, and
then we have two hours on in the afternoon for
the pediatric program. And so I like to consider that
to two hour sets essentially if you're doing like a
show or an improv set or something like that, because

(15:45):
as soon as we leave the room, we are in
clown and everyone we interact with it's not the human Gina,
it's Dr TVD, it's Dr Mimi. We're still able to
have adult conversations when we check in with the nurses,
because we do perform check ins every time we go

(16:06):
to a new unit, uh, so that we can get
kind of a temperature for the floor or places we
definitely should not go or um maybe perhaps information that
will help inform how we approach the child. So if
the child has any delays or sensory issues, we like
to just know about those. We don't need to know
a diagnosis, We just need to know where the kid

(16:28):
is at. So if you know, if the kid perhaps
has a visual impairment, let's go in there with a
lot of sound, you know, let's and let's engage them
with music or you know, fart noises, Yeah, which Dr
Mimi brought her. That's one of my specialty. Yeah. You
had a couple of things and I was like, what
are these things? Oh yeah, these are I mean this

(16:48):
was for work, This is for my work stuff. This
isn't ye we all are and he's not listening to okay,
m oh yeah that well man, that one slipped out.
That one just slipped. There's variety. It's like a conversation. Absolutely,

(17:10):
that's very impressive. Thank you. You might have like I
feel like I have a really weird job, but like
the stuff I have to buy in search, but you
might have to. You might have meat. You know. It's
not a competition. We're all weird here. It's I'm holding
out my camera. Was like, why am I not taking
pictures of this stuffy keep going, keep tooting great. I

(17:33):
don't think it might be the first props we've ever
She can't prepare, man, Yeah, I got some more stuff
in my bad guys. We need to get crazy out here.
Well we can. I didn't bring my role of t P,
which I'm regretting. You did. You bring TP good. I
feel like, this is just like always prepared clowns, right,
you gotta be prepared. I always carry TP and kids,

(17:54):
we have to TP somebody's room. Yeah, that's fair. Like
so if we go into a room, and especially if
the kid isn't there and we know them, uh, then
we like to t P their bed, TP the room
so that when they come back from maybe having X
ray or having a procedure or something, they know the
clowns were in there messing things or like a teenager

(18:16):
who's on their laptop or some then we're just like
to just pretend we're not even here in the role keeping.
I did that with one kid the other day, and
he was just because it's there's this beautiful, this beautiful
time in a person's life where they are so over
everything around them because they're preteens or they're teenagers. A

(18:39):
lot of times the teenagers think that they're too old
for us. A lot of times the preteens are just
so embarrassed that we're even in there. So we TPED
this kid and he did not look up from his
phone the entire time. The mom was losing it, she
was laughing so hard, and then we were just like, okay, thanks,
all right, cool, see you later, buddy close to her.

(19:01):
That's valuable too for them. Yeah, I have a moment
and you know that kid cracked up the second part exactly.
You know, my mom was able to go over and
maybe pokem and just being come on, this is funny.
At least a couple of good pictures weren't had to
be made right there. So out of curiosity, how did
each of you personally get into this position, this type

(19:23):
of this is what I want to do. Obviously, you
guys love it and you have a lot of empathy
for this job. How did you get here? Um my
story is much shorter than her, so my ego first.
Um So, I'm also a founder of the amazing theater
company here in Atlanta called Out of Hand, And one

(19:45):
of the things that we did with this company was
a lot of on tomble training, and so we brought
trainings in from all different places and this was like
my thing, Like I loved training ontoble, training on tumble
creation group, physical work, physical theater is my jam. Uh.
She's a big nerd guy. I'm I'm a little girlfriend.
It's wonderful at home here there. We thank you nerds.

(20:12):
Um So, you know, we had had to learn a
little bit about clown in college and undergrad and stuff,
and I was like, it was fine, but it wasn't
something that I really thought of as something I needed
or wanted or you know, I was wanted to do
on some of Creation or maybe Shakespeare that I loved.

(20:33):
But then we did some clown work with some of
my colleagues that I've been working with for a really
long time, and just seeing them in some of the
basic exercises that it's all about working on vulnerability and
allowing people to see uh into you and to have
an emotional conversation with the audience. This was something that

(20:55):
I hadn't really seen in that way and wasn't necessary
really the way I've been introduced to clown And I
saw something new in performers that I thought I knew
their whole bag of tricks and like exactly how they
would do everything, which I found fascinating and I thought, well,
they're really there is something to this. So then I
nerded out and read a whole bunch of stuff about

(21:17):
clowning and tried to go find trainings and you know,
look into all that sort of stuff, and I got
a little bit not obsessed, but I got excited about
it and I started to really see the great value
of it for me as an actor and how it's
foundational really for an actor um to be believable on stage.

(21:38):
UM and I heard about this gig, this healthcare clown thing,
because a couple of my friends were doing it. It
had just started in Atlanta, I guess they were a
year or two in and UM. Eventually auditions came around
and I was like, I'm totally going to audition for that.
It just purely because I wanted to learn more about clowning.

(21:58):
I didn't I had It's not that I didn't care
about the kids at that time, but I kind of
had blinders onto that part, like the service element of
the job, and I just wanted to learn about the
artistic element of the job. But then I started doing it,
and then she discovered that she has feelings. Yeah, and
my mind kind of exploded because I've always thought that

(22:21):
um art was good for people and that by being
a performer I could I was giving something, but not
like this. You know, this is just totally different, and
it's it's a whole new kind of challenge and it's
the perfect intersection of um art and service and heart

(22:42):
and that just it kind of blew my mind, and
so I didn't Uh. I wanted to get better and
better at it, and I got so frustrated about it
because I just wanted to be really great at it.
And I had a great mentor on the team, Vincenzo Tortici,
who was our leader at the time. He was really
inspiring as well and really helped me on that journey.

(23:04):
And then I left the team for a while to
go get my graduate degree in England and uh, she's smart, yell,
and and have a baby because they have a deal
over there where you can get to graduate degrees and
get a free baby. I don't know if you guys
know about this, So I will not be going. That's
what me and my husband did, So we came back

(23:26):
with a baby and to graduate degrees. Um. But luckily
I was able to study clown and stuff with some
over there too, and I got to come back on
the team and I was just um ready in a
whole new way as an artist and as a mom,
and um, yeah, I just can't imagine being without it now.
I just I love it and I'll do anything I

(23:46):
can to keep it going and keep it growing and
keep it getting better, and to try to get us
serving as many more people as we can with anybody
who's in need of joy, you know. So that's awesome,
that's lovely. Yeah, all right. So I've been uh and

(24:09):
training and acting since I was about thirteen years old. UM.
But you know, we were talking a little bit before
about how I lived in New York. So I went
to school in New York, and I lived in New
York and it just burned me out, man, and so
I eventually, UM, my parents, who I'm super close with, uh,
they were down in Atlanta. So I reached a point

(24:30):
in my twenties where I was just like, you know what,
thanks New York. It's been real by so I moved
down here. But I have been uh for most of
my adult life. I was always working some sort of
day job. When I lived in New York, A worked
at a giant financial institution, which was not fun for

(24:51):
five years, um, credit suites. Uh. And then when I
moved down here, I've had I've always had very sensible
day jobs, and then I've chased my dreams on nights
and weekends. And then it kind of I hit this
one point where kind of everything that I was I
thought I was moving towards like kind of fell apart,

(25:11):
right And then I was like, you know what, I'm
just going to freelance. I'm going to be a freelance person.
And so I was freelancing for a while and doing
you know, essentially like freelance acting gigs and all that
kind of stuff and trying to pick up work. Then
one of my buddies who was on the team, it
was like, you should really come on audition for this.
And I was like, okay, sure, you know. I mean,
I have my I have my b f A. I love.

(25:33):
I love acting so much. It is it is if
I'm not creating something, then I don't feel right. Everything
feels off in my life. Um. And so I was like, man,
I don't know, Like I've children loved me, but I've
never wanted to have any myself, and I've always been
like I enjoyed children with a time limit. And you know,

(25:55):
so I was like, you know, if there was a
child crying in public, I'd be like, oh my gosh, um,
you know, kind of that insolent, petulant type of reaction.
So I was just like, you know what I'm gonna
I'm gonna try this. Let's just see. Um. I love
serving people, I love helping, I love serving, so let's

(26:17):
just see if it works somehow. So I got it.
I got an audition and I did a partially improvised
monologue based on a communic character that I had done,
uh in a in a show. And that's that's my thing.
Is I love comedy. I love doing comedy, physical comedy. Uh.
I've done some clown training, but I just love outrageous

(26:38):
physical comedy. It was so funny. I laughed my face off,
so funny, and it was about botox, which made it
even funnier. Yes, Um, I was lucky enough to one
of my buddies to for Pain, who was a local playwright,
wrote this one role that I did, and it was
a woman who had had a botox accident and she

(27:00):
could no longer move her face. And so the entire
you can't see this at home, but I'm doing ventriloquism,
the entire monologue, how to the delivered without moving my face. Um.
So thankfully it worked. And then I got to go
into the hospital and it was I was so nervous
because you have people there who are They're experts at mine,

(27:21):
they're experts at juggling, they're experts at magic. And I'm like,
I'm a great improviser and I can make a joke
out of just about anything. Uh. And so I was
very lucky that I got to go in there and
audition and somehow I made it onto the team. The
callbacks were in the hospital, so we did bring people
into the hospital environment before. Yeah, so I was kind

(27:44):
of walking around and I was like, all right, okay, cool, cool,
um it's it's a My grandmother was in a nursing
home for like sixteen years, so I'm very comfortable with
medical environments and with long term care environments and that
kind of stuff. Um. So I went in there and
I loved it. And I had I learned about handwashing. Guys,

(28:06):
we're going to talk about that in a second. I
really need it, but I uh one of the things
that I discovered. So you know, I made it through
that and then they were like, all right, come onto
the team for a probationary period. We had a clown
come down from New York City and she was working
with us as sort of like a training week, and
that kind of stuff. And I remember sitting at lunch

(28:30):
in our then dressing room at one of the hospitals,
and I started crying because I mean, number one, I'm
a soft touch, but number two, it was the first
time that I understood that there was a reason that
I had been given the gifts that I have, and
that there was actually a place for them to be used.

(28:52):
Two make people's lives appreciably better. Like I sang a
hungry infant to sleep, like she couldn't be fed because
she was going to have to have surgery or something.
You know, who knows what Their grandmother was holding her
and I saying that baby to sleep and I was like,
whoa what what? That is the thing I can do?

(29:16):
Are you crazy? And the person that I was UM
with at the time, Dctor not right When we walked
out of the room, he looked at me and he
said he's like, you got to touch buddy. He's like,
this is this is for you? And it was just
one of those things where I was like, oh, of
course this is what this is what I'm sure I

(29:37):
thought I should be doing. This guy's UM. So it's
been a real learning experience UM. And there are highs
and there are lows, um and they are really tough days,
and they're really just ridiculously fun days. But any day
that I get to do it, I'm so grateful. Um
so about that hand hygiene, that was beautiful, that was

(30:03):
that's amazing. This is stories that I would have never
thought of when we were doing the clown special or
the Colm episode special. Clown episode. I did say, please
don't let them dress up, because I do. I'm one
of those people who does have a few of the
clown You have a little bit cloud, yes, probably pretty
a good bit. Also told the story that with any
there's a very big backstory to that. That was a

(30:25):
negative experience on top of my experience at the sarcas
with a guy coming after just different things. But the
Joe question back story that was too negative that I'm like,
I'm I'm the negative Nelly of the group between the
two of m like, I'm not gonna add this one,

(30:45):
but no. So in general, I'm just like a little
absolutely absolutely petrified, to the point that even today someone
in full garb was like, shrink away cost you. Yeah,
these make up they are adorable. You guys are not
on that level. But are the things that we were
talking about, was it. Yeah, I know, I'm we're about
to We're about to start dealing with that once we
go into the hospital. But let's remember, guys, it is

(31:09):
not a clown the monsters, that's true. Yeah, I was
thinking about that other day. It's like, we really should
be spiders should be the ones. A lot more people
are scared of spiders. I'm not as scared of spiders
in that letter because I can actually stop one to death.
That's the Yeah. I like spiders. They chase me. I

(31:30):
I'm gonna go after you. Yeah, I mean, if there's
a saucy one, yeah, if they're hanging out in the
corner too leaving them be. But if it's coming at
me or was hanging above me where I know it's
about to drop on me, We're gonna have a fight,
and I'm gonna I'm gonna freaking win. We have a
lot more to discuss with our wonderful interviewees, but first
we're going to pause for a quick break for word

(31:52):
from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored. Let's
get back into the interview. Yeah, so this is a

(32:13):
really beautiful day because I think any you know, I'm
talking about that these are the things that I haven't
thought about in a long time, and I knew it existed.
That people come into entertain to give a distraction and
a lot and this is really beautiful to hear your
stories and um, how you're going into it. But with that, yes,
tell us the things that we need to know that
we wouldn't have thought about once you go into So

(32:33):
one of the things to keep in mind any time
you are in a medical surrounding, you need to hygiene
is super important. It's very important for us because we
are moving across all levels of the hospital. We are
entertaining kids with compromised immune systems UM. Some of them
have no immune systems, you know, like where we're dealing

(32:55):
with kids who are maybe they're okay normally, but anything
extract you know what, the chemo, chemotherapy UM is really tough.
Chemo and radiation really tough on kids, and it really
knocks down their natural defenses. So the last thing that
we want to do is bring anything into them. So

(33:15):
anytime we're on a new unit, we wash our hands
UM and the way that you wash your hands, my friends,
all right, so you take it for real? Is there
a song for because if there is, I want you
to sing it, we have it's usually that you can
do the alphabet or happy Pappy Birthday. Well that's how
long you need to have on you. So the important

(33:35):
one of the most important things with handwashing is friction. Okay.
So first the thing you're going to do is you're
going to wet your hands. Okay, and yeah, you want
to take a video and Samantha needs this information. So
um so your hands are now wet. So now you
put the soap on it. And so this is how
you go. You put your palms together. So happy birthday

(33:56):
to you, Happy birthday, and especially if it's our for
swash of the day, Gina would be no rings, no
watch yeah, no rings those any piss for bacterias to
any time you have a chef that has rings on,
don't eat their food because that's where bacteria hides. Um.
So you're gonna hook your fingers around each other. Now

(34:17):
this area right here, the pad at the bottom of
the thumb and the thumb are often the most neglected areas.
And what you do that is you just coind of
twistt twist toists twist right, So now you've gotten between
your fingers you've got in the palms, you're gonna rub
the backs of your hands. And also if this is
the first wash of the day, then I'm also going

(34:37):
to be rinsing under my nails. So you scrape your
nails right, and then you're gonna you're still foamy, and
you're going to do your wrists right. And now you
you rinse from wrist to hand. Wrist so wrist to
fingertip like that. Okay, shake it and then draw your
hands and you're good to go. And then we make

(34:58):
sure we also foam in and fomat of rooms or
gel in and gel out of rooms. Don't hand sanitizer,
so hand sanitizer, they're awesome antimicrobial hand sanitizer, which has
made my hands look like Baba Yaga's. I only have
chicken faith for hands now, terrible old lady hands. I'm

(35:18):
gonna be like Madonna and start wearing finger at gloves. UM.
But yeah, that's very very important. UM. Over nine of
infections are spread through touching your eyes. It's the mucous
membrane in your eye. So your eyes, your nose, and
your mouth, you don't touch them unless your hands are clean. UM.
Super super important, and then you washed immediately after you

(35:41):
do exactly, and so for us also, we also wash
after any time we get to give a kid a
high five, or you know, any kind any of that
sort of interaction. Everywhere we go there will be UM
signs that say if kids are on contact or contact droplet,
if there's any reason why touching might be passing infection

(36:02):
from them to you, in which case we gout and
glove and put on masks to go into the room.
But we also try to treat anybody that we encounter
as the potential. You don't know what they have, and
the last thing we want is for the clowns to
or anybody to bring something to somebody who's has a
compromised immune system or happens to be allergic to whatever

(36:23):
that thing is. UM. And I remember, I think, was
that working with you that time where we were in
a waiting room. Kids are playing and stuff, and I
was watching this kid and playing the ukulele, and my
partner's over here was that you blowing bubbles or something,
and this kid UM just like pulled the biggest booker
out of his mass. He was clearly one of those

(36:45):
booger kids. You know how they are, and you know,
and then it went straight in his mouth. And then
and and Gina's going to give kids high fives. I'm like,
not this one. I'm not gonna hi five this guy.
She gave me the look again. We have of we
have looks that are just like we're still in clown
and she'll just give me the no shaky Oh boy.

(37:05):
We're having fun, aren't we. We gotta go. I mean, yeah,
there there are some um gooey children. There are children,
and that the great descriptor gooey children. You know, they've
got the sticky hands and they got sticky faces. They
still want to have fun, though, and sometimes they come

(37:25):
up and they touch you and you can't stop them.
And then we have something called ox of Ear, which
is a fantastic um antimicrobial uh spray that we use
medical grade and we can spray our costumes. We also
have another cloth crop a bunch of different things. Yeah, yeah,

(37:45):
I might need you all around for the dragon car.
I gotta tell you. One of the biggest things with
dragon con that I always tell my friends the way
to avoid the con crud. Okay, you need to remember
that any high touch surface is essentially pat tree dish.
So when you get into the elevator, which makes a
lot of sense. Yes, So when you get into the elevator,
any door handles that you're dealing with, any chairs that

(38:08):
you're sitting on, if you're touching the edges of the
chairs in order to kind of scoot into them, Um,
anything like that. That is just nerms and cover everything,
cover all of you and don't breathe. Yeah, just use
that as matt suit as your cute outfits. Yeah. Yeah,
in my head, I'm just a pick like you know,
how you see the germ sequences and different shows. Yeah,

(38:30):
all I see is darkness coming at me. That's what
is any You did not do a good job preparing
me on that level. I would like to say we
just much it. So the big key, guys is you
just need to wash your hands. You do not need
antibacterial soap. Regular soap and water is just easily the

(38:54):
best defense. Purell is great, um, but it is not
as good as hand washing. So kill everything. Priorle is
great as a as an intermediary type of thing. But
you know, you should think about this with things like
gas pumps um, you know, and being in this job.
I'm constantly just like so, anytime I need to touch

(39:15):
my nose, I will take a fabric and I try
not to touch my face at all anymore, which also
helps with breakouts. Yes, I was gonna say, your skin
is listening. Thank you don't what you're talking about. It's jewie.
I'm young, but it's not oily like it's wonderfully done.

(39:39):
Oh you know, there's just say it. Um So, we
got the handwashing part. What other parts of clowning should
you see? Talents, what activities that you do? Whatever? What
is something we may not know? Um? Well, we have
rehearsal with the whole team, all twelve clowns, about once
a month, and we also have an annual conference that

(40:02):
we go to where we do skills exchange with clowns
from other cities, more like clown friends. What wait? Where
is it? Usually is it in one location or doesn't
move move around? Last year it was in Atlanta at
the Center for Puppets and Faboo, and conference will be
in Dallas. One of our conferences is similar to podcast

(40:26):
conference in the clown conference together the end, it's just
going to the end. That would be when the party
goes down clowns actually know how to party. I believe
that complicated strange individuals. And I say that as a
complicated strange individual So yeah, I think we are all

(40:49):
on that page here lots of the day. But I
feel like that's a lot of actors in general. They're
just so vibrant and personality and just the way they think.
It's different from probably who is very analytical. And I'm like,
what is hell? And that's okay, and like actors find opportunities.
I'm like, yeah, okay, that made sense. I wouldn't have
seen that a punchline scramble. You have your Oh yeah,

(41:14):
she's got bags of crops. Wait, you have a whole
bag and no, but you know I have love call
it my bag of props. Scott at least a tutor
and a squeaker and tutor and a squeaker here, So
fist bump me. So this is one of our this

(41:35):
is one of our big things. Cute. It will blow
a child's mind, I guarantee you. And so we can
take this and we can fist bump it, or we
can through the magic of clown we can get a
little off our nose and then put it in different places,
and so then like the kid's elbow will be squeaky,
or the kids stuffed animal will be squeaky. And the

(41:58):
best is when they start trying to like kids don't
have especially young kids don't really know their own strength,
or you don't know about, um gently touching things unless
you're like gentle gentle. So if you put the squeak
on their nose and you their nose, quite often they
will mash their nose so hard, and I'm just like baby, no, no, no, no,

(42:18):
no oh. And I should also say, as an addendum,
I used to when I used to hear children crying,
it would I would be like, oh my gosh, let
me go. Now, anytime I hear a child in distress,
I'm immediately drawn to it and I want to figure
out how I can help. Um, it's really it's a
sea change, and it's one eight. I'm just like, I'm like, hey,

(42:40):
let me just dap bears for you, But don't do.
I was gonna say so when you see like kids
that are staring at you at the airport, you're actually
putting on a whole show. Everybody else is a little
like trying not to look at a kid sometimes we
have a thing called check your shoes, um, which is
essentially looked down or you're wearing your clown shoes. So
if we're not on our shift, we're just normal humans,

(43:02):
which means well, okay, normal, but this is just some
strange middle aged lady who's making googoo faces at your
baby and trying to fist bump your two year old.
And it's so there. There's sometimes where I and then
if you try to explain to them after words, I'm sorry,
like like, oh no, I'm I'm a hospital clown. That
it just gets weird. That's not the it's not the

(43:26):
right in like self you okay, yeah, yeah, I mean,
and it's right. You know. I am a big fan
of parents, you know, guarding the right from strange. But
I just I mean, kids zero in on our faces though.
It's like they know that we're people are elves to
play with kids at restaurants, so they try to make

(43:48):
eye contact. I just know this is a person will
play with me. Yeah. So we have squeakers, we have bubbles,
we have magic tricks. We have uh so I do
a bunch of different bubble tricks and uh we also
have jugglers. I love jokes. I love terrible jokes. They're

(44:09):
my favorite. Good puns, Oh lovely, we'll play a pun
game once these mics are off, because it's not it's
not entirely family friendly. Um, but yeah, we'll do things
like it's something called a French pass with these these
noses where you know, you put it on your finger

(44:32):
and then you're getting the kid to look at it,
and then you're making it disappear, right, And then I
tossed it over to her and then oh, she's got
it in her pocket, you know, and then then I
caught it back out and you know, I had a moment,
what does happen? What does happen? Exactly where to go?

(44:53):
So it's about learning how to palm things or put
things in your pockets and uh, and then of course
just having these stupid funny things like I have these
tiny hands and I love to put on these things.
But then you give tiny half haf you go tana
half five, tiny half a small round of applause. Or

(45:15):
we have ukuleles and I can strom the ukulele with
one entire hand, and I say that that's classical. We
do a lot of music, a lot of some of
the people on our team are really amazing musicians, and
everybody on our team can really sang. Yeah, really sang.
I was gonna say, you've been doing some good singing,
which I appreciate because I do that often just on

(45:36):
our podcast. I'll just randomly sing things out and everybody
looks at me funny and then tells me to stop
because of copyright stuff. You know what, I don't let
them demm your shine. Thank you say that it's it's
say that it's covered under parody. Yeah, don't hide your
light under a busch. Know the words of these songs,
I'm just humming it. Just keep it under thirty seconds,
and you're right, And I'm making up words to it
because I forgot the actual lyrics exactly that parody. Guys,

(45:59):
are these things that you knew or that you picked
up when you got into this, like palming and magic
tricks exchange. Yeah, And it all depends on the on
the clown and what your background is. I mean, some
of our clowns primary backgrounds are mime or juggling or
puppetry or improv or acting. But I mean not everybody

(46:21):
as a comes from an acting background. It's really quite
a variety. So some people came in with you know,
magic out the wazoo, and then that was great for
everybody because uh you know Bill Smith, um doctor not right,
who's um not on our team anymore. Unfortunately he lives
in Tennessee also and was making the drive and extrem

(46:43):
from I mean from Gatlin perk Uh yeah, but he's
an amazing magician and was very generous about sharing his
skills and taught us all uh French drop um and
if there was anything else you wanted to learn, can
teach you a card force or uh you know, help
you improve whatever whatever your dumb magic you were working on.

(47:05):
And u uh Tom Pierce is h a brilliant mime
and him and Tim Satimi, who's another one of our clowns,
they're both wonderful mimes, and so they've helped work us,
you know, when we have are rehearsals and stuff, they'll
help teach us how to do certain mind things. Because
one of the great things about this is that you

(47:27):
are working with someone who has a skill set that
you don't have, and you are finding ways to create
bits with them, and you're finding ways to make yourself
look stupid and make them look wonderful, or making them
look stupid and make you look wonderful, or get the
kid on their side, or get the kid on your side,
or get the kid to hate both of you have

(47:47):
fun continually kicking you out of the room. You know.
There there's just there's a million different ways to try
to find ways to blend all of these different skill sets.
Um Ron Anglin is like a master. There's just Chinese
yo yo, which is also called the diablo. He it's

(48:09):
it's insane because it looks like it's going to hit you,
and it's it's all swinging this thing around and then
he can make it bounce on it and do all
those crazy things and and this this is a huge
you know, it takes up a lot of space, but
he'll go into a kid's room and do and do
it because he's got such great control. So it's quite

(48:29):
impressor yeah, he's just like and that adds an element
of danger to a room, which is also exciting, you know,
but he's a professional, so it's it's been one of
those uh wonderful joys too. You're you're getting to know
all of these different partners and uh share jokes and

(48:52):
share tricks and come up with different things. One of
my things lately has been, UM, I really love to
to draw um on the paper towels um, and then
maybe I'll tear it up and then then they have
a puzzle. Or I'll make a list that keeps getting
longer because the paper to spend, paper towel dispense or
keeps getting longer. So we have to keep writing a list, like,

(49:14):
you know, advice on how to be a cool teenager,
or things I'm going to do once I leave here,
or ways I could improve my outfit. I got that
from one kid. My kid was like, I don't know,
you don't really look like a clown. And I was like, okay, cool,
So what do I need to do? And they essentially
described Ronald, but it was like bit by bit, like

(49:38):
red hair, I need to be a man. I love
using the elements that are in the hospital room like
that though, like using the paper towels or the gloves
and stuff like that, And that's part of we try
to keep that in the back of our minds also
because it's part of demystifying the hospital environment for the kids.

(49:59):
So if we can turn this thing like the glove
that they're used to having just be put on for
something scary to happen, or for something uncomfortable to happen.
If we can turn that into a fish and blow
bubbles and if the fish went through, then maybe that'll
be more fun. I was working with Um, one of
our new clowns, uh Dr Googy, the other day, and

(50:19):
we were on oncology and there was a woman, Um,
she was crying. It was a mom or grandmother. She
was crying really hard and talking very quickly into her
phone in the hall, and she was speaking Spanish, so
we didn't know exactly what she was saying, which just
had a little bit of an idea of what she
was saying. And in oncology, you know, you guys have

(50:41):
a little bit of an idea, right Um, So uh
Googy went and took a paper towel and folded it
very beautifully into a paper rose, and we didn't say
anything to her or anything. He just walked by and
handed her this rose and and we walked on. And
you know, sometimes that's the right kind of moment to

(51:03):
provide for somebody. And then the next room we encountered
was this boy about four or five years old, and
we knocked on the door and he opened it, and
then he hid behind the door and we looked for
him a little bit, and then he popped out and
was like ah, and we were like, oh, goad and
and then we just played this for like a while,
and he kept hiding behind the door and then popping

(51:23):
out and we would get scared, and eventually he scared
us enough that we ran off all the way down
the hall and into a whole another area of the hospital,
and a few minutes later, a nurse came running to
us and she was like, Hey, did you go see
room whatever it was? And we're like, um, I think
we did. And she's like, I think maybe he wasn't
in the room or something, because they just asked for
you guys to come come there. And we were like, okay, well,

(51:45):
maybe we had the wrong room or something. I don't know.
So we went back there and we're about to knock
on the door and we looked at each other. We're like, oh,
this is this is the kid that chased us all
the way down the hall. So and he opens the
door and he says, you'll get y'all what's in here?
So we looked at each other. We went okay, we

(52:06):
walked to the doorway, we lifted up our coats and
we just stuck our butts into the room and then
we ran off. And I'm like, I just like, how
did we go from like this beautiful rose to stick
in our butts kids? From what is this job? It's
so amazing, that's fantastic. We have just a little bit

(52:28):
more for you listeners, but first one more quick break
for word from our sponsor. Then we're back. Thank you sponsor.
Let's get back to the interview. Kids are honest and

(52:53):
literal and strange in ways that I never really knew.
Really did this job, man, there are some My kids
are the weirdest, really cute. The weird kids are my favorites. Yeah,
there's I mean, and there's there are times where you have, uh,
you have times where you've got to just kind of

(53:14):
step out and because of maybe things that are going
on in our personal lives, like uh, like my father
was really sick at one point, and you know, I
was still working in the hospital while he was in
the hospital and that kind of thing, and so every
now and then I just had to be like, just
need a second, okay, And then you keep going um,
because you're there for the kids, UM, and that allows

(53:36):
you to have even more empathy and compassion for what
these families are going through sleeping in these hospital rooms,
you know, UM living there essentially uh. And there are
kids that come to Choa from all over the world,
so you're dealing with different customs. There are some people

(53:57):
that don't know that they're allowed to use the bathroom
inside the room. You know. It's just like there's different culture.
Cultural differences, are different cultures from within Georgia. You know,
you have people coming down uh in and they're getting
all settled in, you know, and there's a whole family,

(54:17):
like there's mom, dad, multiple kids, Grandma, grandpa, and everybody's
posting up for this kid. Then there are some kids
who don't have anyone right or their parents are working
so that they can pay these bills. And we're the
ones who are able to go in there and break
it up a little bit, just break up the time

(54:39):
for kids who get checked in and then are left there. Yep,
I mean it happened. Had no idea that that happened
until like, yeah, I mean what Yeah, It's usually kids
who have a lot of UM technological dependence on things
like tracks or um complex medical stuff, and the family

(55:01):
is just like I can't handle it. They can't handle it,
and they're like, well, here at a place where people
will take care of you. And then the children are
there for months and months and months and the nurses
are trying to help them get into foster care. And
it's a you learn about a lot of different realities.
So with that, because I'm actually a social worker, and
one of the things that I always ask, because obviously

(55:24):
this field is very, very emotionally taxing and impacting, how
do you care for yourselves like you were saying you
were having a moment because of the close relation with
the father, how do you actually take time and care
for yourself? Well, um, I think we should all be
better at it than we are, but we do as
an organization and as a team, we do work on that.

(55:46):
We work with UH with a therapist, with a psychiatrist
at each of our rehearsals, and we have a group therapy.
Should we call emotional hygiene. It's another type of hygiene,
another type. Don't just wash your hands, wash your brain. Um.
And that's another one of the many, many reasons that
we work in pairs always a lot of that is

(56:08):
about artistry and safety as well, but it's also about
um having a shared experience with somebody if you need
to be able to talk about it later. We also
spend thirty minutes at the beginning of each day while
we're getting in costume and mentally preparing for performance, checking
in with a partner about where they are emotionally and

(56:30):
the most recent experiences they've had in the hospital. And
at the end of the day there's another thirty minutes
to um d clown and debrief emotionally about the day.
And everybody's always also open to receiving calls from each
other if you feel like you need to call somebody
to talk about something weird, because I know, like my spouse,
my husband doesn't want to hear about about it, you know.

(56:52):
So some spouses are great about it, but it's it's like,
it's very weird to talk to somebody about it who
doesn't have this, you know, if they don't want to share, right, Yeah,
So we try to help each other. It's a strange thing,
and theoretically we all do yoga and meditated and chicken

(57:13):
wings and drink beer to do it. Yes, were and
why I like that. I think we're all very we're
very lucky, um, and that we because of the type
of work we do, we're all okay with being vulnerable
with each other. And that's a whole essence of Clown's vulnerability.

(57:37):
We're able to look at something, you know, look at
this and be like, you know, this really messed me up, UM,
and I need I need to just say these words
out loud about what this is, you know. And you know,
we do develop relationships with kids long term, UM, who

(57:58):
are waiting for transplants, or or who are waiting to
be put into foster care, or who are going through
cancer treatments, and sometimes we lose them, right, and that
is very hard, UM, because I mean, you know, we're
there to be silly and goofy, but you also know
that if you're walking into a hospital, you're also going

(58:19):
to be dealing with mortality. UM. So you just try
to do the best that you can and remember those
kids who have moved on. And some two kids are
so inspiring, like they are so resilient, and it's just
they're ridiculouting, They're ridiculous, They're wonderful. They're just like this kid,

(58:40):
there's one little spitfire of a girl who like, um,
like English is in her first language. But she's been
like in and out of all of these uh different
treatments and stuff. And I see her in one hospital,
then I see her in another hospital, then I see
her in day surgery and all this kind of stuff.
And she will let you know what she will wants.

(59:01):
She wants, they get to know you. They learned that
they can boss you around, and that's awesome. She'll look
at you and she'll go show me a trick and
I'm like, what about this one. I've already seen that one,
Just like you go over here, you go over there,
you go over here, what's in your pocket? And she
comes up and she's like, face first into your indier jacket.
I carry a Fannie pack now, and she's like, what's

(59:23):
in this? Open it? Open it. She'll start on sipping
and I'm like, what you know, But of course it's
full of really stupid stuff. So that's perfectly everything that
she wants. Yeah, but she's you know, like the last
time that I saw her. One of my gags that
I like to do is they have these big it's
it's like marketing material that Shoa has that look like

(59:46):
giant phones, and so I always carry them with me
and I'm like, hey, what's up, and so so or
I pretend to I can't unlock the screen because it's paper,
and so I have to give it to a teenager. Um,
you know, it's paper thin, unbreakable. Uh, So I gave this. Uh.
I gave one to her, and then I had one

(01:00:08):
and we were talking to each other and like, hey,
how you doing. I'm fine, doing all right, And she
grabs my hand and while her mother is talking to
a social worker, she and I walk up and down
the hall, just having a conversation, not looking at each other,
but holding each other's hand. And her hand is so tiny,
and she's been through so much crap, but she still

(01:00:33):
is going to boss me around, and she still wants
to have this imagination thing. So I say, you take
that one home with you and then you can call
me on the phone when you want, you know. So
it's I don't know, it's awesome, Like I don't want
to I still don't want to have kids, but I
consider all the kids at the hospital to be my kids.
I understand you completely. Yeah, they're so awesome. We had

(01:00:55):
there was this time, um, when Gina and I we
were going to uh into a waiting area or the playroom.
I guess in rehab. Rehab is one of the places
that I feel like we can really do a lot
of a lot of good. It's really tough, but it's
we're very grateful to be there. Yeah. Uh. And we
were going in there and there was a girl who
was on a stand up um wheelchair and she was

(01:01:16):
painting at this table. She was probably about three, and
another girl sitting on the floor who was also probably
about three, and she was playing with something. She had
something between uh flight between her legs. She was playing
with it and Uh. I looked at her sleeve, like
her right sleeve, and it was empty. And I was like, Okay,
I didn't know if she was if it was she
had her arms strapped in for healing purposes or something,

(01:01:38):
or if she didn't have an arm. Um. And I
saw Gina getting ready to blow some bubbles, which is
a lot of times our first entree for some for kids,
and uh, and I looked more closely at this little
girl on the floor and she had shifted a little bit,
and uh, she didn't have an arm on the left
side either, and her arms weren't weren't strapped to hers,

(01:01:58):
She wasn't didn't of any braces or anything like that.
She just didn't have arms. And I had this moment
where I was like, oh, man, are we about to
blow some bubbles for a little girl with no arms
who wasn't gonna be able to, you know, fingerpop. But
I was like, well, here we go. So I kept
playing ukulele and Gina got out her bubbles and um.

(01:02:21):
The little girl who was painting threw down her brushes
and she lit up. She had both a finger on
each hand point her fingers just pud popping those bubbles.
She couldn't be happier. And the little girl on the
floor she looked up, big smile on her face and
just took her foot and went you and just kicked
the shout of those bos, you know. And it was

(01:02:42):
just this amazing moment. And we walked out of there
and Gina was like, adaptability, man, it's just like wow.
I mean, that's the kind of thing where those kids
just you're like, you are inspiring. She had like one
of those little fake car consoles in front of her
with like the wheel, and I saw that she was
hitting the buttons and kind of turn her the wheel

(01:03:04):
a little bit. As an she was amazing, she was flexible,
she was accurate, and she blew my as mine and
it was wonderful already she had those and like that. Yeah,
but it's you know, if if you meet people where
they are, uh, and you go in there ready to

(01:03:26):
not judge and not make anything weird and don't assume.
I'm glad we didn't assume. So coming back, obviously we
are stuff. I'll never told you very female focus or
those who identify as female. And one of the ideas
behind the clowns was we don't hear too many about
female clowns in history, as in fact, we were talking

(01:03:47):
about one list only listed off like maybe six out
of one as that's famous. How does as women in clowning,
what do you see some of the difficulties that you
might have run into non to Colti is that you
may have been into roadblocks that you are past or
getting past or any of those situations. Um, well, I

(01:04:08):
think we're fortunate on our team that we have several
women now, which is great. It didn't always used to
be that way, but um, we've got strong women. But
I think you're always there's always a little bit in
the back of your mind. Is because clowning is has
such a relationship to comedy that you have to get
over that hump of women aren't as funny as men,

(01:04:29):
or like chicks aren't funny or whatever, which is so
Gina is so funny. I'm hilarious, guys. I make myself
least that's enough, right. Um. I not to uh put
too much energy into the tutor, but one thing that

(01:04:53):
I found when I first started my clown was really different.
When I started, I was a lot younger guys, and uh,
and I was a little bit more feminine and cute
and um, you know, some of the stuff we could
do back many many years ago, we don't do now.
Like I would never flirt with anybody at the hospital,
but back you know, back then it was the clowns

(01:05:15):
could flirt and it was cute and funny. Anyway, I digress. Uh,
But I carried a tutor because some of the guy
clowns had tutors, and I thought toots were funny because
they are because they're um. But the general gag for
the mail clowns would be, you know, they dropped something
on the floor and then um, they go to pick

(01:05:36):
it up, and they too as they're picking it up,
and I was like, I could do that, um, And
you know, I tried it, but it wasn't It wasn't funny,
Like I don't know what. I don't know if it
was the fluffy skirt or the piggy tails or what
it was. But it was almost like my audience was

(01:05:56):
just two concerned that maybe that really happened, and they
felt you were worried and embarrassed for the for the
cute little girl clown who maybe just too did um.
And I was like, come on, gods, was funny. So
you know, I kept trying to figure it out and
but it wasn't really working for me. And then I

(01:06:19):
was walking with my partner back to the dressing room
one day and there were some um uh some staff
folks standing around and I went up to this guy
and I was like, um, hey, man, ah, does does
this sound real? H And there was this silence and
then they all just cracked up laughing, and I was like, oh,

(01:06:41):
because there are other ways to use I don't have
to toote like my partner toots like right, and so
then I found a whole bunch of different ways to
use a tutor for various contests and even just like
interrupting my partner constantly, And if I do it enough,
then people are very clear that it was a joke.
Got yeah, yeah yeah. So, uh, you know, for me,

(01:07:02):
that's one one thing I guess I had to realize
is that there are things that are that are socially
constructed to be more inappropriate for women in general than
for men in general, and that finding ways to overcome that,
uh the way a female can is really fun. And
that in trying to learn how to be a clown,

(01:07:26):
I don't have to learn how to be a guy clown.
I have to learn how to be my clown. Oh, guys,
that rhymes I gotta write that downs the tagline for
your life, right, that clown? I gotta be me. I
come from the improv world, which is traditionally been very
male dominated. Um and uh, you know improv in theater. Um.

(01:07:51):
I work at Dad's Garage theater in town, um, and
that has also gone through kind of major change with
bringing more women and more diversity and that kind of
stuff into the fold. But you do still run up
against these societal buffers. And one thing that I've really
enjoyed with my clown is that I make her she

(01:08:14):
is so dumb, and she's so energetic, and she's so
ready to party and like kick up her foot and
be ridiculous. Um. So it's kind of I'm playing at
the child's level in a lot of ways. Um. But
I also, you know, I like to do like little
stand up routines, you know, uh, and say terrible, terrible jokes. Um.

(01:08:39):
But I there there is that dichotomy of like, you know,
being feminine because I have my one of my dresses
I have is as my new one. I love. It
is all pink and it has angry cat faces on it. Man,
it's so great. Um. But that you can be feminine
and wild and rambunctious and looking to get into trouble. Um.

(01:09:03):
But it's it's a you know, there's also you know,
talking about like how culture progresses, right, so things that
were once appropriate in comedy are no longer really appropriate
in comedy. Um. That also sort of goes for clowns
in the sense that people of my parents generation, they
knew clowns as like a safe and adorable and they'd

(01:09:26):
be like, oh, the clowns. Clowns signifies having fun. So
sometimes the parents are the grandparents will look at us
and be like, oh, hooray, but kids, because clowns are
not you know, circuses aren't as prevalent anymore. Um, clowning
isn't as prevalent anymore in our culture, it isn't other cultures. Um.
We're also kind of introducing a foreign concept. Um. We

(01:09:48):
are quite often the children's first clowns. They've never met
a clown before. UM. I do believe that in a sense, Um,
our femininity can work for us. Uh if you have
a particularly high stressed room or high stressed child, um,
and we're able to come in with a different type

(01:10:08):
of energy. We're not as physically intimidating necessarily, um because
you know, sometimes our dudes are big, um and uh
so we're able to kind of go in there and
um possibly have a uh maybe from that child's perspective,
this is a safe a safer person. That's not always true.

(01:10:30):
I mean we have we have lovely, gentle, wonderful men
on our team. UM, and they all are trained and
really knowledgeable about making themselves a smaller, smaller, or more
approachable or more gentle and yeah, so I mean they're wonderful. Yeah,
they're they're really wonderful guys. So if you're able to

(01:10:52):
kind of build on that image. Um, but I don't know,
like a Punky Brewster is one of my heroes, um.
For you know, I know they're people out there who
don't know who that is. That is that is the
crime that people don't know. So nam Fry as Puckey Pruster. Um, yeah, right,

(01:11:15):
it's been a hot minute, but she was kind of
this awesome I try to take that energy where she
is spunky and you know, she wears mismatched things and
she's it's the joy of clowning. Um. And we are
lucky that, you know, we're not only respected as clowns,

(01:11:35):
but we're respected as uh women in a profession as
we go through choa when we're doing checkens. You know. Uh.
Also the nursing force, which which is what we interact
with the most, is also prevalently women. So we're seeing, uh,
we're speaking with a lot of women who are in
very tough professional positions. And let me just tell you, guys,

(01:11:57):
anyone who's listening, if you ever have a nurse, you
better be nice to that person. They do so much work,
they carry so much on their shoulders. They are their heroes.
They are literal heroes. I see some of the things
that they've had to deal with and they go through

(01:12:19):
it with grace and humor, and I just I look
up to them. I idolize them. So don't you be mean, groos,
be nice. I agreed, Gene is gonna come get you
for real. I won't show up in clown makeup because
I don't want to add to any sigma. Please don't
do that to me. I'll just be tough. Um. Before

(01:12:42):
we get to like closing out final shoutouts and stuff,
do you have any perhaps advice for listeners who might
be interested in clowning, or any anything you want to
add that we haven't touched on that you think it's
really important? Um here the wheels clicking in our head. Well,
you know, I feel I could give a whole dissertation,
probably because she's a nerd, but I really think that

(01:13:06):
one of the things that's challenging for us, that I
think we could ask of everybody is just to keep
an open mind, um about the idea of clown because
for most people, I think it's not what you initially assume,
at least here in the United States. Um, the idea
of of clowning is really different than it is in

(01:13:27):
Europe and in other places. And the the clown is
so um is still a healer and uh and a
new way to look at yourself through somebody else and
a way for um, somebody to make mistakes for you
instead of you having to do it. And it and

(01:13:49):
is the opportunity for uh an emotional conversation and and
for play and fun and whatever it is that somebody
needs in any of a moment. And I think that
that's really beautiful and that that's the essence of clown
And I hope that people will think about that and

(01:14:10):
give that idea a chance. UM. And I think that
we're helping to do that and what we do because
I hope so too, UM, because it's so it's so special.
So and remember that we're just people. I think. You know,
we've had these conversations with some adults who are, uh,

(01:14:30):
like I'm afraid of clowns, or some kids who hear
that because they've heard their adults say that. You know, um,
you know, sometimes we'll do like noses off or something
like that and just say I'm just I'm just a
person who likes to make you laugh, um or who
likes to be there if you're interested in it. I mean,
there's so many wonderful resources now to to study um

(01:14:55):
clowning and different places check out, you know, like there,
what does clowning look like in other cultures? Looking at
some of our physical comedy grades like Buster Keaton, I'm
going and watching some of his old stuff because that
stuff is still hilarious today. And Chaplin and Bill Irwin

(01:15:16):
and then such a dream about women. You know, if
you look at Annie fred Alini and um Karenda Santos,
you know there's some great even Carol Burnett. I mean
she has a lot of clown in Lucille Ball, but
I mean physical comedy and clowning. I would consider those
ladies absolutely, So, you know, go out and do your

(01:15:38):
research and see and go train in the studio, Go
to New York and take a watkshop with one of
the great. Come. I don't don't go to Los Angeles
to Florida. I don't know there was Florida, Florida in
the story. Go to see Florida. Man Florida man will
always help you. I don't know. I think that the

(01:16:00):
idea is to the more well rounded you can be
as a performer and as a person, the better a
clown you'll be. So immerse yourself in books and in history,
and uh, learn a couple of fart jokes. Um, you
know what advice that's gonna and then they go, maybe
learn a couple of couples, learn a couple of songs.

(01:16:24):
My mom is not proud of him. Um, yes she is.
You're wonderful, but got to different places. Like you know,
there are still things that exist, like Eddie's Trick Shop.
You know these awesome like little magic stores, you know.
Or I love costumes, et cetera. As another great resource
in Atlanta where you can go in and like when

(01:16:44):
I was a kid, I used to go into Spencer's
Gift and buy like like the snapping gum, or like
the can of peanuts with the snake in it. I've
always been a goofy weirdo. I taught myself in triloquism
as a child because I thought it might make me popular.
Uh it didn't. It was Montgomery, Alabama, and I was

(01:17:04):
already weird enough and then I buried that memory until
I needed it as a professional twenty years later and monologue.
Absolutely so, I mean it's I would say, building on
what Maya said, the thing that will make you a wonderful,
bankable performer is the thing about you. It's that, it's you,

(01:17:28):
It's what you're bringing to the table. You know. So,
maybe you don't want to work in a hospital, but
there are innumerable other ways that you can use the
art of clown to engage people and to bring joy.
Because guys, I don't know if you notice, but the
world is a little bit of a garbage fire right now.
Things are really scary. So anyway that we can bring joy,

(01:17:49):
uh and comfort and connection to other people is just
it's the best. That's lovely. I'm so glad we we've
got to have you both on here because I feel
like I have learned a lot, and I hope that
listeners will We'll learn a lot and appreciate this perspective.
Yes for sure. Yes, So um, how can people find you, Maya? Yes? Um,

(01:18:16):
so you can good to our website, which is Humology
Atlanta dot org. We fancy y'all dot org, and you
can feel free to contact us there, but I think
probably especially for more of you younger folks. If you
want to get us on the facebooks, um or Instagrams

(01:18:39):
or instagrams, say this right. So on Facebook we are
Humorology Atlanta. Ha, so come check us out there. On
Instagrams we are Humorology Atlanta. All one word chase chases
don't matter. Um. And we have some videos not on

(01:19:00):
our YouTube channel as well if you want to check out. Yeah, yes,
totally go check that out. I will definitely link it
to the episode when we published this for sure. And
I don't know when you guys are publishing this, but
if if you're publishing it before September twenty one, we
are having a huge performance. All of our clowns are

(01:19:20):
performing on Yeah, you guys want to come, You're invited. UM.
There's going to be everything from Diablo to some hilarious dancing,
traditional clown bits, um less traditional clown bits, juggling, singing, singing, um,
you name it, just plouting around. And it's proud of

(01:19:44):
you for saying that. It's our annual fundraiser and all
all proceeds go to help bring more joy to people
in need of joy. Where's it at? It is at
Holy Innocence Episcopal School in their Performing Arts center. It's
in Sandy Brinks. Yeah, it's actually like super nice guys,
it's really cool. Yeah, someone somewhat fancy. Yeah all right,

(01:20:06):
and there's free parking, it's totally air conditioned. That great
place adult beverages. You can't church place. I just realized
that I need to go home. You need to com Catholic.
I mean, they drink a lot of while totally recommend
that you that you pre party, but we got a

(01:20:28):
pre game. I kind of forgot. There's also kids clown Okay,
all right, so everybody's mocktails for all the class. Oh cool, perfect,
It'll be super fun, I promise. So that brings us
to the end of this episode, this interview. We hope
you enjoyed it as much as we did. And I

(01:20:51):
just found it, like we said, really inspiring. And also
I just I hadn't thought about it in that way.
And as they said, they actually do have an event
Saturday if you happened to be in Atlanta, and that
sounds like an amazing, amazing event September twenty one, twenty nineteen,
So of course you have depend but if you're listening

(01:21:12):
as it's coming out and you're around Atlanta and you
have you know, you want to support something amazing. They're
doing a great benefit. Um will definitely put a link
to that or at least linked to their website to
do that. Yes, yes, um yeah, definitely check that out.
And uh, we would love to hear from you listeners.
If you have any clowning stories of your own, you

(01:21:35):
can email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at i
heeart media dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've
Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer
Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've
Never Told You the protection of I Heart Radio's How
Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit
the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen

(01:21:56):
to your favorite shows.