November 23, 2018 • 32 mins
Although romantic holiday movies lead us to believe that it's the most wonderful time of the year to fall in love, it's actually the most common time of the year for breakups. This classic episode looks at why that is, and offers some tips for holiday stress management.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff I've
never told you as we record this episode. The holidays
are bearing down upon us. And yes, I say bearing
because one of the things I've noticed as I've gotten older,
(00:29):
one of the keystones of adulthood, I would say, is
that the holidays shift from something that you look forward
to to something that totally stresses you out. I was
just talking about this off Mike with producer Andrew about
how it's kind of funny to me that it's just
assumed that the holidays are going to be a really
stressful time instead of perhaps what they were when you
were a kid, something that you looked forward to that
(00:50):
was fun and relaxing. And this has been my experience,
and anecdotally the experience of a lot of my friends.
Maybe I'm holidaying wrong, but if i am, i am
not the only one. The holidays are major stressors on relationships.
American Thanksgiving is practically synonymous with fighting with your family. Recently,
(01:12):
I was at the work at conference, which is a
conference for women in podcasting, where Bridget was part of
a fantastic panel, and someone from Vox came up to
me for sort of a woman on the street bit
about how do you deal with disagreements with your family
at Thanksgiving? That's how prevalent this is. The holidays don't
just put a strain on family relationships either, they're also
a stressor on couples. In fact, tis the season for
(01:36):
holiday breakups, for breakups in general, but we'll call them
holiday breakups. And in this classic episode, you'll find out
why breakups are so common this time of year and
get some tips for how to handle stress, whether you're
in a relationship or not. Enjoy and as much as
you can, take care of yourself and enjoy the holidays. Listeners,
(02:00):
Welcome to Stuff Mob Never told you from how stup
works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Caroline and I'm Kristen, and welcome to the very end
of the year. We have made it through Thanksgiving, Monica, Christmas, uh,
(02:22):
and now we are standing on the precipice looking towards
the new year. We've almost made it through the holidays season. Stressful,
stressful holiday season. I hope everyone has survived all right
so far. Take a breath. Yeah, it's a tough time
of year. And I'm not just saying tough because if
I hear uh police nabby Dad in one more store,
(02:45):
I might have an issue, but because they are physically
physiologically stressful. Yeah, there was an article, for instance, in
the journal Hospital Practice that equated Christmas and New Year's
in people's minds with stressors like blizzards, experiencing earthquakes, the
threat of violence, and job strain. What is going on,
(03:07):
I don't know what's happening. Well, first of all, there
is the issue of just the season. It's winter. It
gets darker sooner. I know, I don't see sunlight nearly
as much as I would like to, and it's cold,
and so the Surgeon General actually issued a holiday stress
management warning focusing on seasonal effectiveness disorder or SAD, which
(03:31):
affects around ten percent of the population. Yeah, you're spending
a lot of money, you're not sleeping, well, you might
feel lonely in this all this lack of daylight, and
you know, you might actually have some physical responses to
all of this holiday uncheer. There's something called the Holiday
Heart Center METS. Cardiac abnormality is caused by drinking more
(03:53):
than usual. So even in your celebrations this holiday, you
could be causing yourself some physical stress, although we do
have one bit of debunking to do. Um. It's often
thought that because of all of these different holiday factors
and possible loneliness, family stress, gift buying madness, that rates
of depression go up. We hear that a lot um,
(04:15):
but a two thousand six New York Times article by
Anahad O'Connor examined that claim and debunked it. Um. He
maintained that psychiatric visits actually dip during December, and a
Mayo clinic study spanning thirty five years found no correlation
between the holidays and suicide. Well that's good, that is good,
(04:38):
But I just wonder if the dip in psychiatric visits
isn't just because people are not taking care of themselves
during the holidays. Yeah, it could very well be that
it could also be the hectic holidays schedule as well,
because that was the only bright spot in all of
the medical literature in regard to the holidays. Yeah, not
just medical literature, like personal psychology, logical emotional literature too. Yeah,
(05:02):
which is why we're going to focus today on whether
the holidays are not so healthy for relationships. Because Carolina
learned a new term and it's called the turkey drop.
That sounds fun. Is not a game, it is, well
to some people, it might be a game because it
denotes this period from Thanksgiving too right before Christmas, when
(05:28):
more breakups happen than any other time of the year.
I hope we're not hitting too close to home for
some listeners. Well, if we are hitting close to home, though,
at least take heart if you're a broken hearted listener
that you are not alone at all, right, exactly, you're
definitely not. UM. And the reason we know this there's
(05:49):
been quite a discussion that was stirred after an info
graphic was posted on the Internet a few years back.
It was created by Lee Byron and David McCandless of
Information is Beautiful. UM. They wrote the book The Visual Miscellaneum,
and they plotted Facebook relationship status data across a timeline
and found some peak breakup times people. One right before
(06:13):
spring break called the Spring clean, and one two weeks
before Christmas. Yeah, to get specific about it, the first
Monday in December is the most common day to break up.
So hey, we've made it through that period. We got
we got through that. UM. And the way that they
(06:33):
gathered this data where they weren't just like looking at
their friends Facebook status is, but they actually searched for
the frequency of breakup and broken up in Facebook status
is using a Facebook data gathering tool that is no
longer in existence unfortunately, but allowed you to to search
a broad range of Facebook profiles. And they also set
(06:56):
up a program that logged the dates of changes in
relationships status is onto a calendar. Yeah, McCandless said, you know,
I wouldn't call it a study. He was saying that
it's not the intention to claim that anything is definitely true.
It's just an interesting pattern that happens. And Byron second
to that and say it's it's more of a curious exploration. Yeah.
(07:19):
But the thing is, even though McCandless environ are clearly
trying to pump the brakes on everyone trying to make
this collection of Facebook status is into something more scientific
than it really is, the attention that it got across
news and media outlets was incredible because maybe it was
(07:41):
simply a confirmation of an anecdotal turkey drop pattern that
we had experienced or since um because it clearly hit
a nerve. If you just look at all of the
stories talking about it, but on a bright side, Christmas Day.
Guess what, folks, that is the least likely day that
(08:02):
you will get dumped. Because seriously, if you are with
someone who breaks up with you on Christmas Day, that
something is either horribly wrong and that relationship needs to end,
or that also that relationship needs to end because that
person doesn't have a heart. Yeah, that sounds like a
mega fight happen um. But side note, speaking of cruelty,
(08:22):
the most the third most popular excuse me breakup dawn
Facebook is apparently April Fool's Day. Oh come on now,
which is not funny. And for one more bit of
social media data, Lee Byron and David mccannlis also looked
at reasons for breaking up that people tweeted about, and
(08:44):
the holidays weren't sided. It's not that people say Christmas
is here, get out, but it was more that the
holidays are probably bringing relationships stew pots to a feverish boil. Right.
Byron said, you know, this is a time for end
of the year reflections, and maybe as you're packing your
(09:04):
overnight bag to spend a couple of hours with your family,
you start thinking about does this person fit in with
my family? Would they like him or her. Maybe you
just start to feel that that kind of seasonal effective
disorder kind of settling into your bones, and you're just
you just want to hold up by yourself, and you
just don't want to date anyone anymore. You might not. Yeah,
(09:26):
And one thing that comes up a lot too when
psychologists talk about why the holidays are particularly stressful for
for relationships is this idealized image that we have of
the perfect holiday romance. This is a time when we
was supposed to fall in love onto snow flakes, right
(09:47):
and the soft light of a menorah. We're supposed to
be running down the street and our tennis shoes and
underwear as Colin Firth opens his big fluffy coat to
catch us. Yeah, that's what's supposed to happen Bridget Jones's
diary right for for the uninitiated, um, But there was
a two thousand twelve study actually published in the Journal
(10:07):
of Consumer Research which found that in this cold weather
that we are in right now, or at least for
those of us in cold climates Australian and New Zealand listeners,
you're like, what what are you talking about? But in
cold weather people are more likely to watch romantic movies
and read romance novels. Yeah. Um. And Andrea Bonnier, who
(10:31):
is a licensed clinical psychologist who was commenting on this
study to Northwestern, talked about how feeling cold often makes
us want to affiliate. It's very much a brain body
connection at work. Yeah, we want to snuggle. Yeah, we
want to snuggle up with some baddy. I know my
soup consumption and my fun consumption in particular has gone up. Yeah.
(10:53):
Oh my god. Fuh every day if I killed the
sodium level, I have to worry about that little. Yeah,
I wear a lot more fluffy socks. People want to cuddle.
I bought myself moccasin slippers just to get through it,
just to eat my soup in well, not while where
while I'm eating my soup, and to eat my soup
out of right. That is some That is some fluffy,
fluffy soup. Um. But so we've got all these things.
(11:15):
We're watching romantic movies, we want to cuddle up with somebody.
We're expecting this idealized version of the holidays. But meanwhile,
the real world is a little different. We have all
of these land mines we have to get around, things
like gift giving, how much do you spend? What if
you buy a nice gift in your partner buy something
really crutty? The family visits the first time meetings and
(11:39):
and will your family judge the person. You also have
to worry about going to holiday parties. Do you bring
the person? Will you have to explain who this person is?
Will you have to be forced to define your relationship
in front of coworkers. Yeah, it's challenging if you are
relatively new to relationship, because it's the time when things
get real, where all of a sudden, you have these
(11:59):
ably aatians and you need to decide whether or not
you're going to do it as an individual or as
a couple. So that can be challenging to get through.
But also if you've been in a relationship for a while,
the expectations are still high because of things like this
being the number one season four engagements and all of
(12:21):
those family pressures. Maybe going home with a boyfriend girlfriend
and getting questions from family about when you're gonna get married,
or if you're married, when are you gonna have a baby,
all of these things. Yeah, I know Thanksgiving, my boyfriend
spend it with his family and I was with my family,
and uh, one of my mother's friends, who I don't
(12:42):
even know very well, was at Thanksgiving and she was
asking when I was going to get married so that
they could all throw us a big party. And I
just gave her this like wide eyed, just kind of
dead eyed stare and and kind of laugh nervous land
walked away, refilled your wine glass. I'm like, let me
(13:03):
get another thing, a turkey and some more wine. Holidays
can be stressful. Holidays can be stressful. Um and all
of those real world stressors are often in direct contrast
to what we are seeing in these holiday movies that
we love so much during this cold weather, because there
are just so many unrealistic expectations that are established that
(13:26):
comes up again and again and again in these conversations
about holiday stress, whether it's the expectations of an amazing
gift or the perfect gift, the perfect holiday happiness, the
true love e dubbiness that you should all be experiencing.
And talking to ABC News about this, Dr Dorry Lynn,
who is a psychologist, says that the holidays evoke incredibly
(13:49):
high stress and oppression, and the reason that this happens
is that we have the media myth that this is
supposed to be a happy, wonderful and joyous time. Yeah,
and echoing NTT. Pepper, Schwartz, who's a sociologist, told NBC
News that when people start to internalize all of these
ideal images of romance and family, they can begin to
wonder if their own real life relationships match up. You know,
(14:12):
problems in your own life that you might not have
even thought about too much, all of a sudden when
it's the holidays, you think, oh, but I feel so
alone exactly, And the issue of the family holiday visits
no offense if any of my family members are listening,
I love you all dearly. But having to interact with
the family can refocus things in not always the most
(14:38):
positive way, because, yeah, you have incidents like maybe some
well meaning grandmothers or whomever asking for timelines about your
romantic future, or just having to deal with seeing maybe
not so pleasant dynamics between family members and seeing also
how significant others interact with their family. LA is that
(15:00):
shines a new light on that part of him as well? Yeah,
I mean those could be positive things. I mean going
you know, if you go to your boyfriend's house for
Christmas and you see how wonderfully he fits in with everyone,
and you just get all these warm, fuzzy feelings like
it's it's good to see someone in a new positive light.
(15:21):
I mean, yes, that can go horribly awry if the
grandmother then turns to you and says like, you know,
when are you going to have babies? And what are
you gonna lose twenty pounds? Because you know old people, Grandma,
Grandma's getting a lot of flak in this episode. Also,
it's not just to enter family dynamics that can clash,
but for couples to who might come from different regions, countries, cultures,
(15:45):
those holiday traditions can clash as well. Yeah, especially like
if if you know, one family celebrates Christmas and the
other doesn't, or one makes a huge deal out of
it and the other doesn't. You know, like what if
what if you do attacking sweater party with your family
every year and your boyfriend's family thinks that's ridiculous? Like
there can sounds like your boyfriend's family needs to lighten
up a little bit. I'll say that I would just
(16:08):
like to point out that I'm not speaking directly about
my boyfriend's family, um, but speaking to NBC News about this.
U c l A psychology professor Andrew Christensen, who studies
intimate relationships, said that quote family is a likely culprit
in holiday breakups. I totally get this one, you know,
because our family's views of our partners can definitely have
(16:30):
a major impact. I mean, I know, I know from
virtual experience, and this doesn't have much to do with
the holidays. But like in years past, if I would
tell my mother about somebody I was dating and I
would get a certain facial expression. She would never even
meet the person, but I would be like, yeah, it
puts a little a castle little doubt in your brain.
(16:50):
And I, on the flip side of that, have experienced
past boyfriend not interacting very kindly with his mother, which
to me was a major red flag that that kind
of behavior would probably trickle down to me at some point. Yeah.
So yeah, So I guess if if you're worried about
(17:12):
the future of your relationship, people maybe put off taking
your partner home for the holiday. But here's the thing, though,
for everyone who is not in a relationship, who is listening, Listen,
I've been through the holidays single, Caroline, You've been through
the holidays single, and it can get weird even if
you are not nute attached, because you can still get
(17:34):
the same kind of pressure to get married and have
babies and lose weight or whatever it might be, no
matter what your relationship status is. Yeah, and and a
lot of women in China are not standing for that
family pressure anymore. There is this issue that Time reported
on where Chinese quote unquote left over women are renting
(17:55):
boyfriends for between eighty two and dollars per day so
their family is won't worry. Yeah, I mean it's like
that right there. I think there is a rom com
about that, most likely called The Wedding Date, Yeah, starring
Grace from Ruling Grace Really Yeah, where she well she
rents a wedding date. Huh Okay, well of course they
(18:17):
fall in love. Spoiler they have to. I don't have
to see the whole movie to tell you that. Good figure. Um.
But then, I mean, then you have the sticky, messy, awful,
(18:38):
possibly dangerous issue of running into an x Oh. Yeah. Yeah.
If you come from a smaller town like I do,
inevitably when everyone comes home for the holidays, you're probably
gonna see somebody, and especially because it's the holidays, you're
probably gonna see someone when maybe you've had a spiked
cider or two, and it can rekindle those old nostalgic
(19:00):
feelings because the Hollies are also a very nostalgic time.
Kind of the same way when it's cold, we gravitate
towards romantic, snuggly, fun types of things. We might also
gravitate towards the familiar, a familiar face who has made
us feel warm and snuggling in the past. Right, But
I mean warning, you know, just if you're gonna take
(19:23):
that leap with an X, you know, be sure that
you're both on the same page. I mean, there's always
the danger that one of you will feel a little
bit better about the experience than the other and want
to take it farther or get back together something, and
the other won't. And also public service announcement. Sexually transmitted
diseases also spike during the holidays, probably in large part
(19:44):
because of the higher rates of consumption of alcohol and
holiday hookups, probably fueled by said alcohol. So, folks, we're
not against the holiday hook up, but just be safe
because it is also the season for an STD. I've
(20:05):
never seen that on a Christmas card there. Well, people
should put them on Christmas cards and maybe the rates
would go down. Put a condom in every Christmas card? Perfect? Okay, Well,
so you know we've just told you about what a
mind field the holidays can be. You've got to worry
about running into an X, You've got to worry about
getting dumped or breaking up with your significant other, you
(20:26):
have to worry about family pressure and about all sorts
of things. Or you don't have to worry at all, Caroline,
Because maybe if we can maintain mindfulness that a lot
of the stress that goes into the holidays might be
fueled by these unrealistic expectations peddled by terrible movies and
(20:50):
holiday greeting card commercials. Yeah, that could help. Some of
those commercials do make my little grench heart grow three sizes.
It's true. Yeah, I get, I get goose bumps. It's
it's true. But seriously, though, maintaining realistic expectations, I think,
especially for people in relationships, is a key to getting
through this possibly stressful time. If there's a specific gift
(21:13):
that you want, just tell your significant other. If there
is a specific way that you feel the holidays should go,
tell your significant other and if there's a problem, you'll
work it out. Really, the key is communication, You'll work
it out. You should be a life coach with that.
And I got your tagline, you'll work it out. Do
you think that could fit on a vanity license plate?
(21:35):
I'm sure. Just take the vowels out, it's fine. Um.
And don't forget you know, when you're visiting your family,
try to steer clear of controversial controversial topics like politics, religion,
all of that stuff, and stay gracious. And if grandma
starts to press about why you're not married, or why
you're single, or why you're dating a bartender, just look
at her and say, why do you ask? Mm hmm,
(21:58):
good deflective question. I do find that my blank stare
is very off putting. My eyes just get real big
and I just go dead behind them. Um, And people
do tend to drop it. I find it works at
work or at home with the family. It sounds like
you should be a life coach too. My my promotional
materials would be horrifying. Um. But also if you are
(22:23):
single during this season, or if you are recently single too,
take heart because statistically, thanks to the Turkey drop, there
are more single people this year, at this time of year. Um,
and I know that's probably the least comforting thing that
you can hear through your earbuds right now. Um, but
(22:44):
it is true. I mean there there are a lot
of single people, and personally speaking, though, I can tell
you that having been through a number of holiday seasons solo,
it's best to just just bulldoz through it because it's
a time off of war. You eat some food, you
drink some drinks, probably at a holiday party, try to
(23:04):
have a good time and block out all of those
love actually esque messages about how everyone should be falling
in love. Yeah, yeah, I just hate love actually. Yeah.
It's it's probably and I get so much flak for it,
Like nobody, somebody, somebody out there somewhere, please please hop
(23:26):
on board with me here Carolyn. Side note, there was
recently an article in the Atlantic that has been going
by thought yeah about how Love Actually is the least
romantic movie. Yeah, and I wouldn't even argue for or
against that, uh, that statement that stands. I would just
say that it's a terribly made movie. What's the holiday
(23:47):
movie that you do? Like? Home Alone? Oh that's a
good one, number one. See and that's great because it's
not all about a fallen in love and and it
does have some heartwarming hearts of it. Uh, they're warning
there is a Rangela in the movie. If you haven't
seen it, I don't know why you wouldn't have seen it,
but I saw it's more of a Thanksgiving movie. But
I saw planes, trains, and automobiles for the first time
(24:09):
a couple of weeks ago, and it was a delight.
It is a delight, although me, being the neurotic traveler
that I am, it stressed to be out so much.
Although it is a lovely, lovely romance between Steve Martin
and John Candy. Yeah, a lovely, like non romantic kind
of friend romantic film. Um so there. Yeah, I think
(24:32):
there are definitely ways to get through the holiday stress
by treating ourselves right, trying to eat as well as
we can, get some extra exercise if possible, get in
the sun if it all possible, and just trying to
relax as much as possible, because it's just another holiday
season and it doesn't have to be perfect. Yeah, let
(24:54):
yourself have a piece of pie, don't stress, just enjoy it. Yeah,
and by one piece of pie, I'm saying all of
the pie, eat all of the pie. Is a new year,
that's right. So now though we want to hear from you,
do you have tactics management tips for making the holidays
(25:17):
go smoothly? Especially for people out there who are not
only dealing maybe with just single doom or being in
a relationship with one person, but also having kids. How
do you make all of those things work together at
the same time and not lose your mind? Let us
know mom Stuff at Discovery dot com. And by the way,
(25:38):
happy holidays to everybody. Happy. We hope that it's going
well so far. We're almost through it, um, but let's
take this moment to all commiserate and in the fact
that it's not exactly the most wonderful time of the year.
So email us. You can tweet us at mom Stuff podcast,
and you can find us on Facebook as well. Messages there,
(25:59):
and we had a couple of messages to share with
you when we come right back from a quick break
and now back to our letters. Well, Caroline, I have
(26:20):
some not so great news from Lisa in regard to
our episode that we did on Faction a while ago,
because subject line she said, your fashion episode made me
feel fuggly sad face, and it gave me a sad face,
she writes, because I typically love you too. Let me
start with what you got right. Thank you for acknowledging
how many American women are plus size. You also totally
(26:42):
understood the perils of both swimsuits and online shopping. Very thoughtful,
and thank you for calling out retailers to carry more clothes.
But here's where I have a problem. As a plus
size women. I do not give you permission to call
me fat. I know the blogs were owning it, and
that the blogs were your subject, but fat is a
word of terror, and you can't throw it around casually.
Just like other social or ethnic monikers. It is one
(27:05):
thing for the possessor to say it, in another four
an outsider to say it. That is a word that
taunted me, tortured me from age six, even when I
was still a skinny tomboy. Fat kept me from trying
too many new things or dating until college. I got
a prestigious scholarship to a good university and later got
accepted to a very very good grad school. In both places,
I spent much of my time worrying if I was
too fat for people like me I had an even
(27:27):
disorder by the time I was seventeen, but I felt
I was too fat to admit until I was twenty five.
I've sobbed over close that didn't fit and walked around
with pneumonia for three months because I didn't want any
more weight lectures from the student health doctor who barely
knew me. And even now in my thirties, I can
still hear every fat criticism ever overheard, and every playground insult.
I found the fat insensitivity especially disappointing because it came
(27:48):
so closely after your Halloween costume episode, in which you
could not have been more culturally sensitive. I don't think
you meant to be hurtful this time around, but I
was hurt and I just want to emphasize that. Lee said, absolutely,
we were not meaning to be hurtful, and and we were.
We were using the language that was out there by
(28:11):
the bloggers, and we weren't calling you fat. We were
trying to celebrate these bodies and this fashion, and it's
a type of reclamation that has been going on. We
as podcasters who do a lot of research into the
topics that we try to present in a very sensitive way.
(28:32):
We want to present you with the language that these
various social movements use, and so we, by no means
are attempting to ourselves co opt any language that could
be perceived as hurtful, and we certainly would never intentionally
say anything hurtful to or about our listeners. Yeah, I mean,
(28:52):
and when it comes to descriptors of female bodies, whether
it's fat or it's skinny, they can both be wielded
as insults. And I'm not saying that I do not
hear your concerns loud and clear, but I just want
to emphasize for other listeners who may have felt like
we were being insensitive as well, that we were sincerely
(29:16):
celebrating this movement and this call for greater representation for
women of all sizes. Absolutely so thank you for writing in,
though Lisa Okay, Well, I have a letter here from Gloria.
She is writing in in response to our Women in
Stems series UM. She says, after listening to your recent
(29:40):
series on women in stem I wanted to share my
own experience as someone who left science for PR. Growing up,
I was expected to do well in science and math
at home and in school. Because I'm Asian, it wasn't
that I did better in those subjects than English or history.
Was an honor in AP classes for all subjects throughout
high school and had pretty much the same spot on
the s SATs for both. But because I displayed aptitude
(30:03):
for science, I was pushed toward a career in anything
medicine related. As a result, I started college majoring first
in biochemistry, but eventually switched to microbiology, immunology, and molecular genetics.
But please note, my family is really not that stereotypical.
My mom boast about not caring whether my second older
sister took AP calculus or culinary arts in high school.
(30:24):
My third sister was encouraged to pursue music, and if
she didn't have time to practice because she had math homework,
my fourth sister would be given a calculator and told
to complete it. But again, because all Asians are good
at math, and so were my sisters, I was expected
to be good as well, and since I'm good at math,
I'm automatically good at science. Anyhow, while I was in college,
I realized that I really didn't enjoy science and did
(30:46):
not want to go into medicine at all. I loved
all of my classes except by science classes, but my
family encouraged me to stay in science because it offers
more job stability once I graduate, which was half true
once the recession hit. After getting my bachelor's in thoughcience,
I went on to work in a diagnostic lab as
a tech. While I was good at my job and
the fact that I wasn't facing layoffs like most people
(31:07):
in two thousand and eight, I still hated it. I
was vastly different from people at work and just didn't
have the personality for any job in science. To have
something enjoyable to do, I started beauty blogging. I realized
from there that I loved interacting with people, and after
a few years, decided to quit my job, move across
the country and pursue a new career and beauty pr
I now absolutely love my job. I love working with
(31:28):
the media, flexing my creative muscles, and being around like
minded people. Surprisingly, my science training kicks in quite often
since beauty is rooted in science. Just the other week,
I was looking at published scientific articles on circadian rhythm
in order to craft a pitch about skincare. So thank
you for sharing your science and not science and sort
(31:48):
of science story with the Scholia and thanks to everybody
who's written in. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is
where you can send us your letters. You can also
tweet us at mom Stuff Podcast, and you can follow
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(32:10):
Never Told You, and you can also like our videos
on the YouTube's It's YouTube dot com slash stuff mom
Never Told You and don't forget to subscribe, and happy
holidays everybody,
Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff I've
never told you as we record this episode. The holidays
are bearing down upon us. And yes, I say bearing
because one of the things I've noticed as I've gotten older,
(00:29):
one of the keystones of adulthood, I would say, is
that the holidays shift from something that you look forward
to to something that totally stresses you out. I was
just talking about this off Mike with producer Andrew about
how it's kind of funny to me that it's just
assumed that the holidays are going to be a really
stressful time instead of perhaps what they were when you
were a kid, something that you looked forward to that
(00:50):
was fun and relaxing. And this has been my experience,
and anecdotally the experience of a lot of my friends.
Maybe I'm holidaying wrong, but if i am, i am
not the only one. The holidays are major stressors on relationships.
American Thanksgiving is practically synonymous with fighting with your family. Recently,
(01:12):
I was at the work at conference, which is a
conference for women in podcasting, where Bridget was part of
a fantastic panel, and someone from Vox came up to
me for sort of a woman on the street bit
about how do you deal with disagreements with your family
at Thanksgiving? That's how prevalent this is. The holidays don't
just put a strain on family relationships either, they're also
a stressor on couples. In fact, tis the season for
(01:36):
holiday breakups, for breakups in general, but we'll call them
holiday breakups. And in this classic episode, you'll find out
why breakups are so common this time of year and
get some tips for how to handle stress, whether you're
in a relationship or not. Enjoy and as much as
you can, take care of yourself and enjoy the holidays. Listeners,
(02:00):
Welcome to Stuff Mob Never told you from how stup
works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Caroline and I'm Kristen, and welcome to the very end
of the year. We have made it through Thanksgiving, Monica, Christmas, uh,
(02:22):
and now we are standing on the precipice looking towards
the new year. We've almost made it through the holidays season. Stressful,
stressful holiday season. I hope everyone has survived all right
so far. Take a breath. Yeah, it's a tough time
of year. And I'm not just saying tough because if
I hear uh police nabby Dad in one more store,
(02:45):
I might have an issue, but because they are physically
physiologically stressful. Yeah, there was an article, for instance, in
the journal Hospital Practice that equated Christmas and New Year's
in people's minds with stressors like blizzards, experiencing earthquakes, the
threat of violence, and job strain. What is going on,
(03:07):
I don't know what's happening. Well, first of all, there
is the issue of just the season. It's winter. It
gets darker sooner. I know, I don't see sunlight nearly
as much as I would like to, and it's cold,
and so the Surgeon General actually issued a holiday stress
management warning focusing on seasonal effectiveness disorder or SAD, which
(03:31):
affects around ten percent of the population. Yeah, you're spending
a lot of money, you're not sleeping, well, you might
feel lonely in this all this lack of daylight, and
you know, you might actually have some physical responses to
all of this holiday uncheer. There's something called the Holiday
Heart Center METS. Cardiac abnormality is caused by drinking more
(03:53):
than usual. So even in your celebrations this holiday, you
could be causing yourself some physical stress, although we do
have one bit of debunking to do. Um. It's often
thought that because of all of these different holiday factors
and possible loneliness, family stress, gift buying madness, that rates
of depression go up. We hear that a lot um,
(04:15):
but a two thousand six New York Times article by
Anahad O'Connor examined that claim and debunked it. Um. He
maintained that psychiatric visits actually dip during December, and a
Mayo clinic study spanning thirty five years found no correlation
between the holidays and suicide. Well that's good, that is good,
(04:38):
But I just wonder if the dip in psychiatric visits
isn't just because people are not taking care of themselves
during the holidays. Yeah, it could very well be that
it could also be the hectic holidays schedule as well,
because that was the only bright spot in all of
the medical literature in regard to the holidays. Yeah, not
just medical literature, like personal psychology, logical emotional literature too. Yeah,
(05:02):
which is why we're going to focus today on whether
the holidays are not so healthy for relationships. Because Carolina
learned a new term and it's called the turkey drop.
That sounds fun. Is not a game, it is, well
to some people, it might be a game because it
denotes this period from Thanksgiving too right before Christmas, when
(05:28):
more breakups happen than any other time of the year.
I hope we're not hitting too close to home for
some listeners. Well, if we are hitting close to home, though,
at least take heart if you're a broken hearted listener
that you are not alone at all, right, exactly, you're
definitely not. UM. And the reason we know this there's
(05:49):
been quite a discussion that was stirred after an info
graphic was posted on the Internet a few years back.
It was created by Lee Byron and David McCandless of
Information is Beautiful. UM. They wrote the book The Visual Miscellaneum,
and they plotted Facebook relationship status data across a timeline
and found some peak breakup times people. One right before
(06:13):
spring break called the Spring clean, and one two weeks
before Christmas. Yeah, to get specific about it, the first
Monday in December is the most common day to break up.
So hey, we've made it through that period. We got
we got through that. UM. And the way that they
(06:33):
gathered this data where they weren't just like looking at
their friends Facebook status is, but they actually searched for
the frequency of breakup and broken up in Facebook status
is using a Facebook data gathering tool that is no
longer in existence unfortunately, but allowed you to to search
a broad range of Facebook profiles. And they also set
(06:56):
up a program that logged the dates of changes in
relationships status is onto a calendar. Yeah, McCandless said, you know,
I wouldn't call it a study. He was saying that
it's not the intention to claim that anything is definitely true.
It's just an interesting pattern that happens. And Byron second
to that and say it's it's more of a curious exploration. Yeah.
(07:19):
But the thing is, even though McCandless environ are clearly
trying to pump the brakes on everyone trying to make
this collection of Facebook status is into something more scientific
than it really is, the attention that it got across
news and media outlets was incredible because maybe it was
(07:41):
simply a confirmation of an anecdotal turkey drop pattern that
we had experienced or since um because it clearly hit
a nerve. If you just look at all of the
stories talking about it, but on a bright side, Christmas Day.
Guess what, folks, that is the least likely day that
(08:02):
you will get dumped. Because seriously, if you are with
someone who breaks up with you on Christmas Day, that
something is either horribly wrong and that relationship needs to end,
or that also that relationship needs to end because that
person doesn't have a heart. Yeah, that sounds like a
mega fight happen um. But side note, speaking of cruelty,
(08:22):
the most the third most popular excuse me breakup dawn
Facebook is apparently April Fool's Day. Oh come on now,
which is not funny. And for one more bit of
social media data, Lee Byron and David mccannlis also looked
at reasons for breaking up that people tweeted about, and
(08:44):
the holidays weren't sided. It's not that people say Christmas
is here, get out, but it was more that the
holidays are probably bringing relationships stew pots to a feverish boil. Right.
Byron said, you know, this is a time for end
of the year reflections, and maybe as you're packing your
(09:04):
overnight bag to spend a couple of hours with your family,
you start thinking about does this person fit in with
my family? Would they like him or her. Maybe you
just start to feel that that kind of seasonal effective
disorder kind of settling into your bones, and you're just
you just want to hold up by yourself, and you
just don't want to date anyone anymore. You might not. Yeah,
(09:26):
And one thing that comes up a lot too when
psychologists talk about why the holidays are particularly stressful for
for relationships is this idealized image that we have of
the perfect holiday romance. This is a time when we
was supposed to fall in love onto snow flakes, right
(09:47):
and the soft light of a menorah. We're supposed to
be running down the street and our tennis shoes and
underwear as Colin Firth opens his big fluffy coat to
catch us. Yeah, that's what's supposed to happen Bridget Jones's
diary right for for the uninitiated, um, But there was
a two thousand twelve study actually published in the Journal
(10:07):
of Consumer Research which found that in this cold weather
that we are in right now, or at least for
those of us in cold climates Australian and New Zealand listeners,
you're like, what what are you talking about? But in
cold weather people are more likely to watch romantic movies
and read romance novels. Yeah. Um. And Andrea Bonnier, who
(10:31):
is a licensed clinical psychologist who was commenting on this
study to Northwestern, talked about how feeling cold often makes
us want to affiliate. It's very much a brain body
connection at work. Yeah, we want to snuggle. Yeah, we
want to snuggle up with some baddy. I know my
soup consumption and my fun consumption in particular has gone up. Yeah.
(10:53):
Oh my god. Fuh every day if I killed the
sodium level, I have to worry about that little. Yeah,
I wear a lot more fluffy socks. People want to cuddle.
I bought myself moccasin slippers just to get through it,
just to eat my soup in well, not while where
while I'm eating my soup, and to eat my soup
out of right. That is some That is some fluffy,
fluffy soup. Um. But so we've got all these things.
(11:15):
We're watching romantic movies, we want to cuddle up with somebody.
We're expecting this idealized version of the holidays. But meanwhile,
the real world is a little different. We have all
of these land mines we have to get around, things
like gift giving, how much do you spend? What if
you buy a nice gift in your partner buy something
really crutty? The family visits the first time meetings and
(11:39):
and will your family judge the person. You also have
to worry about going to holiday parties. Do you bring
the person? Will you have to explain who this person is?
Will you have to be forced to define your relationship
in front of coworkers. Yeah, it's challenging if you are
relatively new to relationship, because it's the time when things
get real, where all of a sudden, you have these
(11:59):
ably aatians and you need to decide whether or not
you're going to do it as an individual or as
a couple. So that can be challenging to get through.
But also if you've been in a relationship for a while,
the expectations are still high because of things like this
being the number one season four engagements and all of
(12:21):
those family pressures. Maybe going home with a boyfriend girlfriend
and getting questions from family about when you're gonna get married,
or if you're married, when are you gonna have a baby,
all of these things. Yeah, I know Thanksgiving, my boyfriend
spend it with his family and I was with my family,
and uh, one of my mother's friends, who I don't
(12:42):
even know very well, was at Thanksgiving and she was
asking when I was going to get married so that
they could all throw us a big party. And I
just gave her this like wide eyed, just kind of
dead eyed stare and and kind of laugh nervous land
walked away, refilled your wine glass. I'm like, let me
(13:03):
get another thing, a turkey and some more wine. Holidays
can be stressful. Holidays can be stressful. Um and all
of those real world stressors are often in direct contrast
to what we are seeing in these holiday movies that
we love so much during this cold weather, because there
are just so many unrealistic expectations that are established that
(13:26):
comes up again and again and again in these conversations
about holiday stress, whether it's the expectations of an amazing
gift or the perfect gift, the perfect holiday happiness, the
true love e dubbiness that you should all be experiencing.
And talking to ABC News about this, Dr Dorry Lynn,
who is a psychologist, says that the holidays evoke incredibly
(13:49):
high stress and oppression, and the reason that this happens
is that we have the media myth that this is
supposed to be a happy, wonderful and joyous time. Yeah,
and echoing NTT. Pepper, Schwartz, who's a sociologist, told NBC
News that when people start to internalize all of these
ideal images of romance and family, they can begin to
wonder if their own real life relationships match up. You know,
(14:12):
problems in your own life that you might not have
even thought about too much, all of a sudden when
it's the holidays, you think, oh, but I feel so
alone exactly, And the issue of the family holiday visits
no offense if any of my family members are listening,
I love you all dearly. But having to interact with
the family can refocus things in not always the most
(14:38):
positive way, because, yeah, you have incidents like maybe some
well meaning grandmothers or whomever asking for timelines about your
romantic future, or just having to deal with seeing maybe
not so pleasant dynamics between family members and seeing also
how significant others interact with their family. LA is that
(15:00):
shines a new light on that part of him as well? Yeah,
I mean those could be positive things. I mean going
you know, if you go to your boyfriend's house for
Christmas and you see how wonderfully he fits in with everyone,
and you just get all these warm, fuzzy feelings like
it's it's good to see someone in a new positive light.
(15:21):
I mean, yes, that can go horribly awry if the
grandmother then turns to you and says like, you know,
when are you going to have babies? And what are
you gonna lose twenty pounds? Because you know old people, Grandma,
Grandma's getting a lot of flak in this episode. Also,
it's not just to enter family dynamics that can clash,
but for couples to who might come from different regions, countries, cultures,
(15:45):
those holiday traditions can clash as well. Yeah, especially like
if if you know, one family celebrates Christmas and the
other doesn't, or one makes a huge deal out of
it and the other doesn't. You know, like what if
what if you do attacking sweater party with your family
every year and your boyfriend's family thinks that's ridiculous? Like
there can sounds like your boyfriend's family needs to lighten
up a little bit. I'll say that I would just
(16:08):
like to point out that I'm not speaking directly about
my boyfriend's family, um, but speaking to NBC News about this.
U c l A psychology professor Andrew Christensen, who studies
intimate relationships, said that quote family is a likely culprit
in holiday breakups. I totally get this one, you know,
because our family's views of our partners can definitely have
(16:30):
a major impact. I mean, I know, I know from
virtual experience, and this doesn't have much to do with
the holidays. But like in years past, if I would
tell my mother about somebody I was dating and I
would get a certain facial expression. She would never even
meet the person, but I would be like, yeah, it
puts a little a castle little doubt in your brain.
(16:50):
And I, on the flip side of that, have experienced
past boyfriend not interacting very kindly with his mother, which
to me was a major red flag that that kind
of behavior would probably trickle down to me at some point. Yeah.
So yeah, So I guess if if you're worried about
(17:12):
the future of your relationship, people maybe put off taking
your partner home for the holiday. But here's the thing, though,
for everyone who is not in a relationship, who is listening, Listen,
I've been through the holidays single, Caroline, You've been through
the holidays single, and it can get weird even if
you are not nute attached, because you can still get
(17:34):
the same kind of pressure to get married and have
babies and lose weight or whatever it might be, no
matter what your relationship status is. Yeah, and and a
lot of women in China are not standing for that
family pressure anymore. There is this issue that Time reported
on where Chinese quote unquote left over women are renting
(17:55):
boyfriends for between eighty two and dollars per day so
their family is won't worry. Yeah, I mean it's like
that right there. I think there is a rom com
about that, most likely called The Wedding Date, Yeah, starring
Grace from Ruling Grace Really Yeah, where she well she
rents a wedding date. Huh Okay, well of course they
(18:17):
fall in love. Spoiler they have to. I don't have
to see the whole movie to tell you that. Good figure. Um.
But then, I mean, then you have the sticky, messy, awful,
(18:38):
possibly dangerous issue of running into an x Oh. Yeah. Yeah.
If you come from a smaller town like I do,
inevitably when everyone comes home for the holidays, you're probably
gonna see somebody, and especially because it's the holidays, you're
probably gonna see someone when maybe you've had a spiked
cider or two, and it can rekindle those old nostalgic
(19:00):
feelings because the Hollies are also a very nostalgic time.
Kind of the same way when it's cold, we gravitate
towards romantic, snuggly, fun types of things. We might also
gravitate towards the familiar, a familiar face who has made
us feel warm and snuggling in the past. Right, But
I mean warning, you know, just if you're gonna take
(19:23):
that leap with an X, you know, be sure that
you're both on the same page. I mean, there's always
the danger that one of you will feel a little
bit better about the experience than the other and want
to take it farther or get back together something, and
the other won't. And also public service announcement. Sexually transmitted
diseases also spike during the holidays, probably in large part
(19:44):
because of the higher rates of consumption of alcohol and
holiday hookups, probably fueled by said alcohol. So, folks, we're
not against the holiday hook up, but just be safe
because it is also the season for an STD. I've
(20:05):
never seen that on a Christmas card there. Well, people
should put them on Christmas cards and maybe the rates
would go down. Put a condom in every Christmas card? Perfect? Okay, Well,
so you know we've just told you about what a
mind field the holidays can be. You've got to worry
about running into an X, You've got to worry about
getting dumped or breaking up with your significant other, you
(20:26):
have to worry about family pressure and about all sorts
of things. Or you don't have to worry at all, Caroline,
Because maybe if we can maintain mindfulness that a lot
of the stress that goes into the holidays might be
fueled by these unrealistic expectations peddled by terrible movies and
(20:50):
holiday greeting card commercials. Yeah, that could help. Some of
those commercials do make my little grench heart grow three sizes.
It's true. Yeah, I get, I get goose bumps. It's
it's true. But seriously, though, maintaining realistic expectations, I think,
especially for people in relationships, is a key to getting
through this possibly stressful time. If there's a specific gift
(21:13):
that you want, just tell your significant other. If there
is a specific way that you feel the holidays should go,
tell your significant other and if there's a problem, you'll
work it out. Really, the key is communication, You'll work
it out. You should be a life coach with that.
And I got your tagline, you'll work it out. Do
you think that could fit on a vanity license plate?
(21:35):
I'm sure. Just take the vowels out, it's fine. Um.
And don't forget you know, when you're visiting your family,
try to steer clear of controversial controversial topics like politics, religion,
all of that stuff, and stay gracious. And if grandma
starts to press about why you're not married, or why
you're single, or why you're dating a bartender, just look
at her and say, why do you ask? Mm hmm,
(21:58):
good deflective question. I do find that my blank stare
is very off putting. My eyes just get real big
and I just go dead behind them. Um, And people
do tend to drop it. I find it works at
work or at home with the family. It sounds like
you should be a life coach too. My my promotional
materials would be horrifying. Um. But also if you are
(22:23):
single during this season, or if you are recently single too,
take heart because statistically, thanks to the Turkey drop, there
are more single people this year, at this time of year. Um,
and I know that's probably the least comforting thing that
you can hear through your earbuds right now. Um, but
(22:44):
it is true. I mean there there are a lot
of single people, and personally speaking, though, I can tell
you that having been through a number of holiday seasons solo,
it's best to just just bulldoz through it because it's
a time off of war. You eat some food, you
drink some drinks, probably at a holiday party, try to
(23:04):
have a good time and block out all of those
love actually esque messages about how everyone should be falling
in love. Yeah, yeah, I just hate love actually. Yeah.
It's it's probably and I get so much flak for it,
Like nobody, somebody, somebody out there somewhere, please please hop
(23:26):
on board with me here Carolyn. Side note, there was
recently an article in the Atlantic that has been going
by thought yeah about how Love Actually is the least
romantic movie. Yeah, and I wouldn't even argue for or
against that, uh, that statement that stands. I would just
say that it's a terribly made movie. What's the holiday
(23:47):
movie that you do? Like? Home Alone? Oh that's a
good one, number one. See and that's great because it's
not all about a fallen in love and and it
does have some heartwarming hearts of it. Uh, they're warning
there is a Rangela in the movie. If you haven't
seen it, I don't know why you wouldn't have seen it,
but I saw it's more of a Thanksgiving movie. But
I saw planes, trains, and automobiles for the first time
(24:09):
a couple of weeks ago, and it was a delight.
It is a delight, although me, being the neurotic traveler
that I am, it stressed to be out so much.
Although it is a lovely, lovely romance between Steve Martin
and John Candy. Yeah, a lovely, like non romantic kind
of friend romantic film. Um so there. Yeah, I think
(24:32):
there are definitely ways to get through the holiday stress
by treating ourselves right, trying to eat as well as
we can, get some extra exercise if possible, get in
the sun if it all possible, and just trying to
relax as much as possible, because it's just another holiday
season and it doesn't have to be perfect. Yeah, let
(24:54):
yourself have a piece of pie, don't stress, just enjoy it. Yeah,
and by one piece of pie, I'm saying all of
the pie, eat all of the pie. Is a new year,
that's right. So now though we want to hear from you,
do you have tactics management tips for making the holidays
(25:17):
go smoothly? Especially for people out there who are not
only dealing maybe with just single doom or being in
a relationship with one person, but also having kids. How
do you make all of those things work together at
the same time and not lose your mind? Let us
know mom Stuff at Discovery dot com. And by the way,
(25:38):
happy holidays to everybody. Happy. We hope that it's going
well so far. We're almost through it, um, but let's
take this moment to all commiserate and in the fact
that it's not exactly the most wonderful time of the year.
So email us. You can tweet us at mom Stuff podcast,
and you can find us on Facebook as well. Messages there,
(25:59):
and we had a couple of messages to share with
you when we come right back from a quick break
and now back to our letters. Well, Caroline, I have
(26:20):
some not so great news from Lisa in regard to
our episode that we did on Faction a while ago,
because subject line she said, your fashion episode made me
feel fuggly sad face, and it gave me a sad face,
she writes, because I typically love you too. Let me
start with what you got right. Thank you for acknowledging
how many American women are plus size. You also totally
(26:42):
understood the perils of both swimsuits and online shopping. Very thoughtful,
and thank you for calling out retailers to carry more clothes.
But here's where I have a problem. As a plus
size women. I do not give you permission to call
me fat. I know the blogs were owning it, and
that the blogs were your subject, but fat is a
word of terror, and you can't throw it around casually.
Just like other social or ethnic monikers. It is one
(27:05):
thing for the possessor to say it, in another four
an outsider to say it. That is a word that
taunted me, tortured me from age six, even when I
was still a skinny tomboy. Fat kept me from trying
too many new things or dating until college. I got
a prestigious scholarship to a good university and later got
accepted to a very very good grad school. In both places,
I spent much of my time worrying if I was
too fat for people like me I had an even
(27:27):
disorder by the time I was seventeen, but I felt
I was too fat to admit until I was twenty five.
I've sobbed over close that didn't fit and walked around
with pneumonia for three months because I didn't want any
more weight lectures from the student health doctor who barely
knew me. And even now in my thirties, I can
still hear every fat criticism ever overheard, and every playground insult.
I found the fat insensitivity especially disappointing because it came
(27:48):
so closely after your Halloween costume episode, in which you
could not have been more culturally sensitive. I don't think
you meant to be hurtful this time around, but I
was hurt and I just want to emphasize that. Lee said, absolutely,
we were not meaning to be hurtful, and and we were.
We were using the language that was out there by
(28:11):
the bloggers, and we weren't calling you fat. We were
trying to celebrate these bodies and this fashion, and it's
a type of reclamation that has been going on. We
as podcasters who do a lot of research into the
topics that we try to present in a very sensitive way.
(28:32):
We want to present you with the language that these
various social movements use, and so we, by no means
are attempting to ourselves co opt any language that could
be perceived as hurtful, and we certainly would never intentionally
say anything hurtful to or about our listeners. Yeah, I mean,
(28:52):
and when it comes to descriptors of female bodies, whether
it's fat or it's skinny, they can both be wielded
as insults. And I'm not saying that I do not
hear your concerns loud and clear, but I just want
to emphasize for other listeners who may have felt like
we were being insensitive as well, that we were sincerely
(29:16):
celebrating this movement and this call for greater representation for
women of all sizes. Absolutely so thank you for writing in,
though Lisa Okay, Well, I have a letter here from Gloria.
She is writing in in response to our Women in
Stems series UM. She says, after listening to your recent
(29:40):
series on women in stem I wanted to share my
own experience as someone who left science for PR. Growing up,
I was expected to do well in science and math
at home and in school. Because I'm Asian, it wasn't
that I did better in those subjects than English or history.
Was an honor in AP classes for all subjects throughout
high school and had pretty much the same spot on
the s SATs for both. But because I displayed aptitude
(30:03):
for science, I was pushed toward a career in anything
medicine related. As a result, I started college majoring first
in biochemistry, but eventually switched to microbiology, immunology, and molecular genetics.
But please note, my family is really not that stereotypical.
My mom boast about not caring whether my second older
sister took AP calculus or culinary arts in high school.
(30:24):
My third sister was encouraged to pursue music, and if
she didn't have time to practice because she had math homework,
my fourth sister would be given a calculator and told
to complete it. But again, because all Asians are good
at math, and so were my sisters, I was expected
to be good as well, and since I'm good at math,
I'm automatically good at science. Anyhow, while I was in college,
I realized that I really didn't enjoy science and did
(30:46):
not want to go into medicine at all. I loved
all of my classes except by science classes, but my
family encouraged me to stay in science because it offers
more job stability once I graduate, which was half true
once the recession hit. After getting my bachelor's in thoughcience,
I went on to work in a diagnostic lab as
a tech. While I was good at my job and
the fact that I wasn't facing layoffs like most people
(31:07):
in two thousand and eight, I still hated it. I
was vastly different from people at work and just didn't
have the personality for any job in science. To have
something enjoyable to do, I started beauty blogging. I realized
from there that I loved interacting with people, and after
a few years, decided to quit my job, move across
the country and pursue a new career and beauty pr
I now absolutely love my job. I love working with
(31:28):
the media, flexing my creative muscles, and being around like
minded people. Surprisingly, my science training kicks in quite often
since beauty is rooted in science. Just the other week,
I was looking at published scientific articles on circadian rhythm
in order to craft a pitch about skincare. So thank
you for sharing your science and not science and sort
(31:48):
of science story with the Scholia and thanks to everybody
who's written in. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is
where you can send us your letters. You can also
tweet us at mom Stuff Podcast, and you can follow
us on Humbler stuff I'm Never Told You dot tumbler
dot com. Oh yeah, and we're on Facebook. You can
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can also like our pictures on Instagram at stuff mom
(32:10):
Never Told You, and you can also like our videos
on the YouTube's It's YouTube dot com slash stuff mom
Never Told You and don't forget to subscribe, and happy
holidays everybody,
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
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