SMNTY Classics: At Home Abortions

In this classic episode, take a look at the changing laws around pill induced abortion.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, this is Annie and this is Samantha, and welcome
to Stuff. I've never told you a production of I
Heart Radio. As how Stuff works. With all of the
things happening in the news around Rob Wade and abortions,

(00:25):
we have a couple of classics that we wanted to
replay in the next coming in the coming weeks, UM
about about abortions because as we mentioned in our update
on Rob Wade and abortion, we do have a lot
of episodes that past host have recorded UM and so
for this first one, we wanted to rerun the episode

(00:47):
we did on at home abortions because for me, this
is something I really knew very little about, Like I
didn't I'm not even sure I knew that it was
a thing that existed, UM, and it's something that is
It sounds like it's a great option for some women,
UM because you can basically have an abortion in the

(01:12):
comfort of your own home. UM. But there are a
lot of, as you might imagine, legalities around it, and
there have been some some controversies and some less than
scrupulous UH providers. So you can learn all about that
and more and more in this classic episode. Please enjoy. Hey,

(01:40):
this is Bridget and this is Annie, and you're listening
to stuff Mom never told you so. Last month, the
UK government announced that pregnant people in England would soon
be able to have pill induced abortions at home if

(02:03):
they are less than ten weeks pregnant. Today we're gonna
be getting into the ins and outs of pill induced
abortions sometimes called tell abortions, and the shifting regality around
them in the UK and in the US. Yeah. And
I have to admit that when um you suggested this
this topic and it was just like tiller abortions, I

(02:24):
had no idea what it was. I thought, like, it's
people calling our people calling, like robot calling hello, want
a hundred abortions? Yes, it is not that. Then like
a drone comes to your house and like I mean
in the future, who knows, but who knows, No a

(02:48):
tele abortion or different facets of pill and dios abortions.
Although I like the idea of calling a robot and
them coming to your house and having it that way,
here is what a pill induced aboard shists. So, according
to Planned Parenthood quote abortion pill is the popular name
for using two different medicines to end pregnancy. Mytho priot

(03:08):
Stone and miso pro stall. Your doctor or nurse will
give you the first pill WLL prit zone at the clinic.
Pregnancy needs a hormone called progesterone to grow normally. The
fristone blocks your body's own progesterone. You'll also get some antibiotics.
The abortion pill is very effective for people who are
eight weeks pregnant or less. It works about nine of

(03:29):
a hundred times for eight to nine weeks pregnant, it
works about ninety six a hundred times. For nine to
ten weeks, it works about three out of a hundred times,
So the earlier you take it, the more effective it is.
Exactly now. Home abortions were introduced in Scotland and Wales
last year. Now the UK government has said that this
will be legalized in England before the end of the year.

(03:51):
According to the latest figures from Scotland, eight out of
ten women are now choosing to take the final pill
at home instead of in a clinic, with the Department
of Health saying that they were monitoring this new evidence. Yeah,
that's a lot, It is a lot. Really. This whole
debate seems to come down a personal preference and giving
people the option of doing whatever feels right. I know,

(04:12):
for me, I'm a kind of person who might want
to take this second pill with a doctor there um,
but not everybody is like that. It really I can
understand why so many women are opting to do this
at in a privacy, in the comfort of their own home,
as opposed to with a doctor in a clinic, or
they have to then figure out how they're gonna get
home from there, and really that that is the crux

(04:34):
of why this is such a big deal. So basically,
when you're having an early medical abortion, you're getting these
two pills roughly two days apart, and it's that second
pill that triggers the abortion. Right now, women in England
have to take this pill in a physically in a
clinic under the direct supervision of a doctor, so a
doctor or a medical professional has to watch you put

(04:56):
it in your mouth, and then you know, you get
on the train, you get in your car, whatever however
you're getting home. You go home and the body does
its thing at home. Now, to be clear, this process
has been proven to be more or less relatively safe,
but that doesn't mean it's going to be comfortable. People
who are taking this pill often experienced symptoms like pain, nausea, vomiting,
and bleeding. And you know, for a lot of folks,

(05:20):
you want to be at home, in bed or wherever,
wherever it's comfortable for you to do this. You don't
want to be in the back of a cab, on
a subway, on a train, um, bleeding and experiencing the
symptoms of this abortion from this pill that you were
forced to take at some place other than your bed.
You know, yeah, I mean, yes, I feel like that

(05:44):
is something that you would want to do somewhere that
you're more comfortable. Um. But I can see if you're
worried about it, that maybe you would want to be
in a clinic. But um, either way, I think eventually
you're wants to get home and sort of deal with
this exactly. I might want to do this in our clinic,

(06:06):
But I think that's what it really comes down to,
is personal choice. We shouldn't be saying you have to
do it in a clinic if that's not where you
feel comfortable. You know, I can understand the inclination because
it's about safety and this and that, But so many
of these as we know, so many of these decisions
purport to be about keeping women safe, but they're really

(06:27):
about taking away women's choices, and we should be giving
women more choices. We should be giving women the freedom
to decide what makes their own body feel safe and comfortable.
When they're going through a process. It's going to be
painful and that might be unpleasant, and we shouldn't be
saying there's only one right way to do this, because
that's it's not that's not what we should be doing.

(06:48):
And so I think this is one of those situations
that we talked about in our episode on benevolent sexism,
where it's under this guise of protecting women, but really
it's about taking away choice, and they're doing it for
reasons that are not grounded in medical science. Yeah, and
for women that don't live anywhere near a clinic that

(07:08):
does abortions, this could be huge and we're going to
talk about that a little bit more later. According to
official government figures, about one thousand abortions occur each year
in England, with four and every five being a medical abortion.
People can start experiencing the abortion and as soon as
thirty minutes, which were some means experiencing symptoms while on

(07:31):
public transportation are in a camp home, which is not
ideal at all. Not ideal. Um. That's what happened to
Claudia Craig, twenty year old women's rights campaigner an activists,
after she made the decision to terminate her pregnancy yet
seven weeks last year. She was forced to go the trauma,
starting to bleed on her way home from the hospital
and the back of a stranger's taxi cab. Here's how

(07:52):
she describes it. It It was the shock of it all
that was a bit scary, and they're not quite making
it into the into the bathroom and onto the toilets.
Was really unfortunate. It would have been nice if that
could have been avoided. The whole way through your made
to feel like you're doing something that isn't quite right.
There's no reason for that. There was no reason for

(08:15):
that kind of uncomfortable, unpleasant experience. You know, you might
already be feeling a lot of feelings after getting an abortion,
and it's like, why make that experience. People deserve to
have medical procedures of all kinds be as comfortable as
they can be. You know, if you're getting a medical procedure,

(08:36):
whether it's an abortion or a tooth pulled odds are
You're going to be anxious, You're gonna be nervous, You're
gonna have a lot of feelings. Medical procedure should be
done in a ways that make people feel more at ease,
not less at ease. And I can't think of anything
less comfortable than bleeding in a stranger's cab, just trying
to get home. It's up there for sure. And because

(08:56):
you might feel that anxiety after taking the pill, the
discomfort could be heightened. Jane Dixon a consultant and sexual
and reprojective health care at Anner and Bevan University Health Board.
She believes the second pill could be taken by women
at home. She says the pain and discomfort experience are
equivalent to a natural miscarriage, but pain sensations can be

(09:18):
heightened by anxiety and uncertainty. This is why being able
to manage the experience yourself, when and where you want,
with the emotional support you want, is likely to improve
women's perceptions of pain. And I have to point out
the decision that England made to let people take the
second pill at home wasn't just a choice or a
ruling Like most kinds of social progress. The change in

(09:41):
England was the result of campaigners and advocates making a
lot of noise and speaking up about this issue. The
British Pregnancy Advisory Service, a UK abortion provider, has long
been campaigning and advocating for home abortions to be legalized.
Clara Murphy, it's director of external Affairs told The Son
there is no clinical reason to deny men the option
of using this medication at home. It is safe and

(10:03):
effective to do so, which means the only grounds refusing
are political. And I think she's completely right that, you know,
the medical we should be making rules and regulations along
medical science. And if the medical science says there is
no reason why you can't hit this pull at home,
it is safe, it's effective, might make you more comfortable

(10:23):
do it, and the law saying no do it in
a clinic and bleed out in a taxi cab. And
I think I think she's exactly right that if it's
not grounded in medical science, then it must be political,
it must be social. What other explanation could there be? Yeah?
The World Health Organization figures reveal that administering the second

(10:44):
pill at home has no adverse effects on the outcome
of a termination between of pregnancies were successfully terminated when
it was administered at home. Now, because this law was
preventing women in England from taking the second pill at home,
some people were resorting to illegally buying it online and

(11:04):
taking it at home. There Over the past three years,
drug enforcement officers have seized almost ten thousand sets of
abortion pills on their way to addresses. In Britain, the
Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency or the m h
r A, told the BBC. Kate Gasri, who works for
the service Women on web dot org, which helps women

(11:24):
who want to buy the tablets online, and told the
BBC that two thousand, two hundred and twelve women had
contacted her asking for abortion pills in the past eighteen months.
For four months, Women on Web tracked how many women
were illegally asking for these pills for four months, and
of the one hundred eighty women who responded during that
four month time, about half that they had difficulty accessing

(11:47):
the NHS abortion services. Other reasons they gave for trying
to get these pills illegally were things like distance and
waiting times, and other things like just not being able
to get childcare or time at work for instant. Linda
not her real name, a thirty one year old living
in Scotland, said I already have three kids and I
am a single working mum. I do not have the
funds to pay for the childcare while in the hospital.

(12:10):
I really need to do this in my own home.
Another of women said they were worried their abortion might
not be kept confidential and wanted to keep their abortion
a secret from a violent partner or controlling family member.
So there's a lot of reasons why besides comfort, that
people would want to do this at home, as this illustrates,

(12:30):
and UM, I do think that if it's medically safe,
it should be available for women who want to go
that way. UM. And we do have some a little
bit of ripple ripple effects out to the United States
that we're going to talk about of tele abortion. But

(12:51):
first we're going to take a quick break for a
word from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor. Okay.
In the United States, at home abortions UM are a

(13:12):
new battlefield, especially with the prospect of an increasingly conservative
Supreme Court and uncertainty around Roe v. Wade, which is
why many turned to tele abortion that's right. Abortion via
telemedicine has been available in the United States since two
thousand and eight, when the first formal program began in Iowa.
So how this works, Like, what makes this the tele

(13:34):
part of a tele abortion? A patient in one clinic
confers via video conference with a doctor and another clinic
and then receives abortion pills. Now, this satisfies a federal
requirement that the doctor quote dispense the pill to a
patient in a clinic office or hospital. Video conferencing is
also a useful way to sort of women in remote
or rural areas, but opponents have responded quickly, prohibiting abortion

(13:57):
via telemedicine in twenty states since eleven. In one of
those states, Iowa, the state Supreme Court reversed the band. Yeah,
And as I've mentioned before on this show, I think
I grew up in a really small town, and I
remember the big deal it was when there was talk
of our hospital closing because there were no other There

(14:20):
were no other closer hospitals, I mean that were like
reasonably close. And I hear so often about like medical
deserts where there's nothing nothing nearby, And I think that
video conferencing and these other ways that we can connect

(14:41):
to healthcare and maybe get an abortion pill. It can
be extremely useful, definitely. I used to work for a
news organization called Rewired News and they've been doing a
lot of interesting um work around reproductive healthcare, especially in
places like the Ozarks, um and the Appalachia. And honestly,
we should do a whole episode about this. But the

(15:03):
different alternative ways of getting healthcare to people who need it. One,
I'm shocked at the resilience that that people have gone
to get healthcare. There's there's things like vans that will
drive to you to give you basic services. Um, there's
video conferencing, but to it just reminds us that there
are medical landscape is so severely lacking in so many places,

(15:27):
and a lot of times these places that you've just described,
these rural communities, places like the Ozarks, Appalachia, that's where
the need is greatest. And so it just it it
boggles the mind. I'm I'm uh full disclosure. I am
recording this in New York, New York City right now,
and I'm going on a trip tomorrow. And I was
able to walk out of my hotel in New York

(15:48):
and there were four urgent care clinics on the street.
So it was like I was looking at three of them.
I went into one, I waited for ten minutes, and
I was out right like when you compare that to
the experience of someone who's living in the ozarks or
a rural community, I mean, it's just it boggles my mind,
you know. And everybody needs healthcare, everybody gets sick, everybody

(16:10):
needs needs care at some time. But just the inability
of folks to access really basic services, it's it's really,
it's it's sad, it's it's a failure on the part
of our country. Yeah, I mean people were afraid when
the hospital possible, who is going to shut down? People

(16:30):
were really I could just hear in their voice the
anxiety of what would we do if it happened I
have this issue or of that issue. Yeah, I can't afford.
I don't I don't have the time. I can't afford
to like drive this far to the next hospital. Yeah,
there are places in the United States where if you
want to get an abortion that you have to travel

(16:51):
so far just to get too clicks because they're shutting down.
And again, when we have these places where, like you said, Annie,
just getting access to healthcare is such a tough thing.
We should be looking at ways to make that less tough.
And so you might be thinking, well, then why don't
they just make the abortion pill that you can get

(17:13):
it over the counter. If if it's so hard, like
why maybe they should deregulate it where people can get
access to it if it's safe and it's something people need.
But that's not what we're doing. We're doing the opposite. Yeah.
A lawsuit filed last year argues medication abortions should be
offered by prescription at the local drug store, and this
could amount to a seismic shift in abortion access. Kauai

(17:34):
doctor Graham Chilius, who bought the suit with the American
Civil Liberties Union, the a c l U and several
healthcare associations, called the restriction medically unnecessary and burdensome because
Kauai lacks a single abortion clinic. Chilias said he'd like
to stock myfi pristone but cannot because of the f
d A restriction. Quote, So if one of my patients

(17:57):
wants to enter pregnancy, she has to fly to a
different island one fifty miles away to get this care.
In the United States, the FDA regulates a PRIX under
a set of rules called Risk Evaluation and Mitigation Strategy
are e m S. Because of these mandates, only health
care providers who have pre registered with the manufacturer of

(18:18):
mio Prex and stuck the abortion pill in their health
care facility may hand patients the medication. In a paper
titled sixteen years of over regulation, Time to Unburdened mill
for Prex, published in April in the New England Journal
of Medicine, leading clinicians and public health experts argue that
the FDA restriction was medically unnecessary, and a CLU attorneys

(18:40):
noted that leading medical groups, including the American Congress of
Obstetricians and Gynecologists, support making the pill available by prescription
at pharmacies. Quote overwhelming medical experience and decades of clinical
experience show medication abortion to be safe and effective method
to end of pregnancy. Dr Paul Blumenthal, director of the
Gynecology Service at Standard University, said in a statement, there's

(19:03):
simply no medical justification for these restrictions, and they create
needless and harmful burdens for women seeking this care. Um again,
but that that sounds so much like what's going on,
what was going on in England where it's clear from
medical professionals and medical research that there is not a
reason for creating more barriers and more rules around how

(19:23):
people can get access to this care and the way
that is right for them. If we understand that some
folks are in situations where there aren't a ton of clinics,
or maybe you're just busy and you can't get to
a clinic, we should be making access to this care easier,
and these doctors agree, but we're not doing that. Nope.
And because of that, people have resorted to buying the

(19:47):
pills online, just like they do in the UK. And
we're going to talk more about that when we get
back from one more quick break forward from our sponsor
and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So, yeah, here in

(20:10):
the United States, just like in the United Kingdom, women
are trying to get these pills by buying them online.
Olga Chasm at The Atlantic did a really comprehensive piece
back in July called elite abortion will mean abortion by
Mail that summarized a lot of the current climate around
obtaining abortion pills online. Yeah, the piece is fascinating and

(20:34):
I cannot recommend that folks readed enough. We'll link out
to it in the show notes. But it's it's really
really interesting in terms of where we're at with abortion
by pill and where we're going. So the reasons why
women in the United States might be looking to get
the pill online are pretty much what you might expect
and are very similar to what's going on in the UK.
Cost restrictive laws, and personal preference. Abigail Keane, an assistant

(20:57):
professor of public Affairs at the University of Texas off
Sin conducted interviews with thirty two people from twenty states
who sought out abortion pills online for a study called
Why US Presidents Seek Abortion Medication Online. She found that
women turned to mail order abortions because the clinic based
abortion was too expensive, or because state restrictions around abortion
like waiting periods and ultrasound laws were too onerous, and

(21:20):
some just preferred the privacy and convenience of doing their
own abortion at home. But as you might imagine, buying
pills online, especially if there's kind of this aura of
secrecy around it, um can be a little tricky. It
can be a bit of a risk. You don't know

(21:41):
what you're gonna get. That is all I'm trying to say.
If you've ever bought like an outfit from one of
those very cheap but very suspicious looking websites online where
it's like a picture of Chloe Kardashian looking amazing and
addressed and that same dresses and then you buy it,
I got experience. Mine was a pleather leggings that did

(22:03):
not look anything like what I was what I was promised.
If you've ever had that experience, as I'm sure some
of you have, buying abortion pills online can be very similar. Um.
This report talked about how the websites are often riddled
with typos, that transactions don't seem very trustworthy. And this
is not an experience that sort of you know, inspires

(22:24):
confidence in your abortion. No, I have to say one
one thing that I immediately gets me like, raises my
my haunches. It's like my Spidey sense. That's it. Um?
Is it like typos and font choice in any kind
of like you might want to keep this a secret,

(22:46):
like any sort of thing like that. I'm a little honage,
little suspicious. I'm gonna say I'm probably not the only one.
There was a study published earlier this year called exploring
the feasibility of obtaining mythopriss Stone and MISA prostall from
the Internet. Elizabeth Raymond, a senior medical associate at the
research organization Dinuity, googled phrases like by abortion pills online,

(23:10):
which it seems like a pretty good phrase to type
in first step one. The researchers ended up ordering eighteen
of the pill combinations from sixteen different websites, none of
which required a prescription. The pills came from India, where
there is a large generic drug industry. Shipments costs between
a hundred and ten to three hundred and sixty dollars,

(23:32):
and the packages took between three days and three weeks
to arrive. Two buyers received troubling communications from product vendors.
One warned about the legality of purchasing online quote please
do not share this info with any other side because
investigation team is searching the details for this type of medicine.

(23:55):
And in the second case, the vendor complained that he
was unable to get payment from the online payment platform
and threatened to withhold shipment until the buyer paid another way.
After some convincing, he finally sent the product In addition,
one buyer who paid with Western Union received two fraud
alert calls, one from Western Union advising against purchasing pharmaceuticals online,

(24:17):
and another from her credit card company. Raymond also noted
that some of the blister packs of pills arrived broken.
She says this might be due to the fact that
the shippers are afraid that custom service would be able
to field with the packaging and see that there are
pills in there, so they crushed the blister pack, which,
if you're trying to get medicine, a little worrying. It's

(24:39):
a little troublesome. Although the mythoprit his own pills contained
the expect of an out of medications, most of the
pills contained less than the labeled dose. Now they might
still work even at a lower dose, she says. But
what's more, none of the pills came with any instructions
or how to use them. So this experience does not
seem like one that is necessarily on the up and up.

(25:01):
Will say, but it is an experience that people in
the United States turned to. Yeah and um. Women can
be arrested for trying to end pregnancies outside of a
medical capacity. The s I a legal Team, a group
of lawyers who specialize in women who induce their own abortions,
knows of twenty one people who have been arrested or

(25:23):
prosecuted for ending their pregnancies outside a medical setting or
for helping someone else to do it. It might be
an undercount since the organization relies on news reports to
track these cases. The charges brought against women whose self
abord can range from child abuse to the abuse of
a corpse to a failure to report a death, says

(25:43):
Jill Adams. She is si AS chief strategist. So what's
interesting is none of these women were actually prosecuted simply
for the act of buying abortion pills specifically, But Adams
points out that fine pills online and even googling things
like buy abortion pill can leave a paper trail that
is then used as evidence in these cases. In seven states,

(26:05):
self induced abortion is illegal, and you might have heard
in A woman in Indiana named perb Patel was sentenced
to twenty years in prison for fet aside after she
allegedly used abortion pill she ordered online. Prosecutors claimed for
fetus had been born alive and she allowed it to die.
Her conviction was later overturned in an appeal, so we

(26:25):
can kind of get a sense that this is a
desperate situation for a lot of people out there. I mean,
people don't just turn to these fishy online websites that could,
you know, get you arrested for no reason for fun.
This is clearly a very very desperate situation for a
lot of folks out there. And yeah, I think that's
why it's sort of important to get a lay of

(26:48):
the land in terms of where where we're at with
this issue in the United States, as it seems like
we are getting closer and closer and closer to a
more conservative Supreme Court. If Supreme Court Justice nominee Brett
Cavanall is confirmed, it's not impossible that Roe v. Wade
could be overturned. You know, we could be in a
very very different landscape when it comes to reproductive justice

(27:11):
and reproductive freedom and reproductive access um very soon. So
it's important to understand sort of where we're at and
where we could be on this issue. Yeah, absolutely, and
we need to. I mean, if we're making it where
women are seeking out these illegal pills because other options

(27:32):
are closed to them, or because they are afraid that
they will be closed to them. There's just a lot
of things that this should get us thinking about and
talking about, and things that we could improve so that
this isn't happening. That what is already a difficult medical

(27:52):
experience medical choice um doesn't have to be more difficult.
That's really the thing that gets me is that any
medical procedure is kind of a drag. We should not
be making it more difficult to access less comfortable. We
should only be regulating things that are you know, medically sound,
based on medical information, not anything else. And I just

(28:16):
people deserve to have their medical procedures, whether it's an
abortion or an appendectomy, people deserve to have them with
dignity and in comfort. Agreed. Agreed. We would love to
hear from from folks in the UK about their experience,
if they have, if they have any insights or thoughts

(28:36):
on that. And speaking of hearing from listeners, it's time
for listener mail. Debbie Route. I'm a service engineer for
a high end nanotechnology company and my job has me
on the road literally every day. I'm home every other
weekend most of the time, and spend more time in
airports than I do in my own house. I traveled

(28:58):
domestically as well as internationally intoically alone, which I love.
The question I get most often from friends and family
who think I'm crazy is but how do you eat?
Do you eat at restaurants alone? Insert horrified phase here?
Yes I eat food. Sometimes I eat food and restaurants,

(29:18):
And yes I eat food and restaurants alone. I don't
get why this is such a huge hang up for people.
You know what you get when you're eating alone. Whatever
you're damn well please, and that's in all caps. I
want to eat the same Shinese takeaway four days in
a row. I'm gonna eat those delicious spring rolls four
days in a row. If I want to go out
for a fancy dinner, I get to pick the bottle

(29:40):
of wine that I really want, not share the best
bites of food with anyone, and have a wonderful evening
chatting with the staff, enjoying a great view of whatever
city I'm in. I find that, once you get over
yourself and realize that no one is judging you, and
if they are, they have way too much time and
energy on their hands, eating out alone is really a
relaxing experience. There's something so wonderfully luxurious about sitting alone

(30:02):
in a lovely restaurant, drinking glass of wine, snacking on
top of us and not worrying about keeping up a conversation.
Are looking sexy while eating? You can take as long
as you want to finish your meal, order nothing but
espresso and dessert, and just enjoy where you are. Dining
alone is my time to unwind after a crazy week,
and I love it. Yes, there are plenty of hassles

(30:22):
that come with traveling while female. Don't get me started
in the Middle East, But as long as you go
into it with the right mindset, solo travel is safe
and empowering experience that I encourage every woman to undertake.
I love this because I get that all the time.
To um eating alone as if what is wrong with you?

(30:43):
How can you do it? And I actually remember when UM,
there was this big kerfuffle of like us, I don't know,
articles coming out about neils are eating alone? What's it
going on? Societies ending? I UM, but it it can be.
It can be really lovely and relaxing experience. Sometimes it's

(31:06):
hard to get over that first initial like table for one, UM,
but I I actually had a wonderful experience with this
recently that turned into not eating alone. But because I
was sitting alone, people came and sat with me that
I'd never met and never would have talked to in
my life, and it it worked out wonderfully. So you

(31:29):
never know, um, that it can be really wonderful experience. Yeah,
I I our lives, thank you for writing in Our
our Lives sound very similar. Um. I have to travel
domestically quite a bit for just for work staff. So
I'm often in a on a train or on a plane,
and so I am often in new cities, often eating alone.

(31:50):
And you really, like you said, like the after the
initial sort of whatever anxiety you feel about it, you
really get used to it and it's quite a lovely experience,
you know. I I a lot of my good friends
are work in the restaurant industry because I so often
eat alone, and it's like you make friends and blah
blah blah. Um. I really enjoy it too. Honestly, some

(32:11):
of the letters that we've got, it makes me think
that we should do an entire episode on just women alone,
you know, traveling alone, eating alone? What are other things
people do alone? Um that people think that's weird? Yeah,
I mean I think that so many women wrote in
about doing things that society says that you should do

(32:31):
with a partner alone. And I think I think there's
something like going to the movies alone, which I which
is like my favorite activity in the world. Oh my god,
I am. I am in heaven. Nothing like my version
if I have no plans on a weekend, My version
of heaven is to pick two we either to like
weird movies that no one would ever want to see

(32:53):
except for me. And maybe that's maybe that's show uh,
like a ten hour documentary about the Holocaust. Maybe that's
am a mia to like, you know, it could be
it could be anything but just going to see a movie,
sneaking in my candy and just like being in heaven
not having to look at my partner and being like,
oh my god, I dragged them to this and they

(33:14):
hate it and they hate me and this is awkward
and it's a bad day, blah blah blah. Like being
free of all of that and just like being in
a movie alone, liking it or not liking it. It's
like I'm in I'm in heaven. It's my it's my
happy place. But I do think there is something around
doing these things that we, especially women, have been conditioned
for so long that you do them with a romantic partner,

(33:35):
and if you do them alone, you're a freak. People
are reclaiming that and saying, actually, I love eating alone.
Actually I love traveling alone. Actually I love going to
the movies alone. Actually I love doing sports alone. You know. Yeah,
for sure, we're definitely moving that way. And it has
been interesting because it is sort of younger folks doing
it more, I think, or at least that was what
the starting wave was. And so when those when I

(33:58):
was sitting eating all own recently, the people that came
and sat with me were these older gentlemen who could
not fathom he would choose to eat alone. But we
actually we had a great conversation from that, and really
it was a great experience. It was a great experience. Yeah,
I mean, I do think that if you look at

(34:19):
the numbers we're getting, we're marrying less and less and
things like things that used to be markers of kind
of being successful adults, marriage, car ownership, homeownership, We are
sort of less tether to those things. So I think
that has something to do with it. It's a shifting
the shifting priorities of young people, and that young people

(34:39):
are much more likely to prioritize experiences over things, and
so you know, we would value like a lavish trip
more than you know, say, owning a BMW. And I
think I think it's just I think it's just a
reimagining of how we live our lives and actually relates
to our next letter. Sanantha wrote, I just listened to

(35:01):
the podcast about solo traveling. I was in France at
the same time as you. It was really exciting seeing
your Instagram post as I was finishing out my first
solo journey and my first time abroad. I spent two
half weeks in Switzerland and then two weeks in South
France solo before meeting my parents in Paris. It definitely
felt like a once in a lifetime opportunity that passed
me by before for many reasons, and I'm really glad

(35:22):
I finally got to do it. I enjoyed listening to
the podcast about how you and Annie talked about society
not being okay with women traveling solo. I've done some
internship stuff around the US, so a lot of my
family members and family friends assumed that I was doing
another internship thing, or at least going with a friend.
When I responded to the who are you going with
question with the words myself, I always got a confused

(35:45):
look and maybe the words you're braver than I am.
While flattering, I also feel conflicted about this kind of reaction.
I'm not entirely sure why it bothered me, although it
is in part because I was always labeled as a
shy kid, and despite me growing up, it seems like
everyone is surprised when I do something adventurous. I also
want to say, in a cheesy way, I do feel
like this trip changed me too. I feel more confident,

(36:07):
particularly in social situations, and more excited about future possibilities
to try new things, meet new people, and see new places.
I'm currently in my second year of working toward a
PhD in math, and I'm hoping this new confidence will
stick with me through the challenges I faced this semester um.
If it sounds like I'm smiling my head off while
I'm reading this letter, it's because I am. Um. Samantha,

(36:29):
thank you so much for writing in. It's so cool
that we were in France together alone for at the
same time. It's almost like we were there together, but
you know apart, Um, yeah, I mean soli travel. I
completely agree that it did make me feel more confident.
And I'm I love the idea of you sort of

(36:50):
shirking this label of like, oh you're just a shy,
sweet kid and saying no, I can I can do
adventurous things that can be by myself. I can talk
to strangers in Paris and make friends with them. And
I I really really hope that you bring that good
energy into your studies. It sounds like you're kind of
poised to really tap into whatever that that thing that

(37:11):
made you feel so confident and good on your own
in France. It sounds like you're poised to bring that
back to your to your real life and to your
work as a PhD student. By the way, PhD and
math very rad. Yes, yeah, this is this letter just
makes me very happy. Yes, Um, I've gotten that, like
you're braver than I am response to And I think

(37:32):
the reason for me that it's it's annoying in a
weird way because it's almost like dismissive, as if it
just comes more naturally to you. I don't know, I
I appreciate like the thought behind it but I understand
the kind of weirdness there of like I guess, I guess.

(37:55):
But thanks to both of them for writing in. If
you like to write us, you can. Our email is
mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com, and as always,
you can find us on social media. Were on Instagram
stuff Mom Ever Told You and on Twitter at mom
Stuff Podcast. And thanks to our producer Andrew Howard.