SMNTY Classics: Craft Beer Brewsters

Along with the rise of craft beer has come the revival of women brewmasters who challenge the stereotype of beer as a man's drink. Learn more about the ancient history and return of women to craft beer brewing in this classic episode.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, this is Annie and you're listening to stuff I've
never told you. M M. For this classic episode, I
have invited my good friends Samantha, who you've been hearing from,

(00:28):
because that we're we're talking about beer and you, Samantha
have some experience in this field. I do. I have
the privilege of working with one of the Atlanta independent
breweries called Orpheus UM, and it's really been interesting to
see the ends and outs of what brewing culture is,

(00:49):
as well as the science behind it and the different
like opportunities and in depth making. Yeah, and in a
funny story, you and I kind of cross past a
couple of times in our lives before we really get
to know each other. But one one time it was
the Atlanta Science Festival, and they are always like publicity

(01:10):
photo taken of us before we even met, and it
was Caroline with unladylike she's the ones like, hey, you
guys know each other. I'm like this person. But did
little did I know that we would be best friends now?
And then you set up UM for the other show.
I do savor a video for for us to come

(01:30):
and shoot at Orpheus kind of helped the arrange that
I did because I was like, oh, you want to
know about beer, you want to especially sour beers. I
think you were talking specifically about sour beers. If you
know or anyone knows about Orpheus Brewing in Atlanta, that
is kind of their niche They started out with being
one of the first Atlanta breweries to offer sour beers
as an option as well as like barrel h beers,

(01:53):
and and they've been doing this for about four little
almost five years now. And the chemist in there as
well as the brewer like after talking with them, finding
out the intense level that they have to do between
like formulating and all the yeast and all of the cultivation,
I was like, oh my gosh. And then you were like,
we want to do this. I'm like, well, I have
the perfect people to introduce you to. Yes, and you

(02:14):
can find that video online. Should you Should you want
to listeners? I do want to say because this kind
of just happened, and I'm a big nerd. An Avengers
trailer came out yesterday and there was a Creature Comforts
beer in it. Creature Comforts Athens, Georgia one of the best.
I think. Actually, yeah, we just went to a venue

(02:36):
and I where they talked about creature comforts beer and
kind of pairing beer and wine. That was really cool too.
That was cool. Oh yeah, I love I think that's
been one of the best things about being a part
of this culture. Just kind of like at anything coffee, wine, beer,
it has its own like social entity and being a
part of that and to watch and learn more about
the ins and owls and the minute details of beers

(02:59):
and you know, becoming a beer stop myself. Now I
know all about beers, that's not true, but it is
really really fascinating. And being able to see also women
who are not often seen in the scene, and I
know that's one of the things that is talked about
in this episode, um as well as the fact that
women are begging to be seen, because there are more

(03:21):
and more coming out about the fact that women were
the original brewers. That was part of their duties and
all of a sudden it became like a hobby and
a specialty thing and of course overtaken again by the
men and they really make money off right, right, and
so all of that to come back to, Hey, this

(03:41):
is something that is a fascinating thing and it should
be on all gender levels. It shouldn't have to be
this or that, and one should not profit over that,
but it can be a definitely ugly scene. And even
though I love the brewery that I work with and
the people are amazing, I see a very lack of women.
Like it's odd how many few women are involved. Um,

(04:04):
and that shouldn't be the case. But I mean, we
have a brewery brewery here second self that has main brewer,
a woman brewer, and chiefs phenomenal and has done some
great beers. And I know all around the country more
and more all female breweries have been happening, which is
freaking awesome. Hello, because women can be experts in beer
as well. Oh absolutely. And one thing I find very

(04:27):
ridiculous and odd, and I know that it's been touched
on before, but I want to come back to it
is the gendering of drinks. It's just so strange to me.
But in the meantime, please enjoy this classic episode. Welcome
to Stuff Mob Never Told You from how stupp Works
dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristin

(04:51):
and I'm Caroline. And Caroline first question of the podcast
for you, favorite craft beer? Oh gosh, oh goodness. I
know I'm putting you on the spot. You are, even
though I knew we were talking about this, I'm still
on the spot. I really like anything out of Bells.
I'm a big I've talked about Michigan on the podcast before.

(05:13):
I have a fondness for Michigan. Any anything out of Michigan,
including Bell's beer, Caroline, I'm going to pull a copycat
Bells too harded, can't go wrong. Yeah, although it'll um
it gets you drunk, that's for sure. It is a
higher gravity beer and it has I have gotten the

(05:34):
oopsie bells. Yeah, no, I I had too many of
those on my first date with my boyfriend. And hey,
but it worked up. It worked out, totally worked out. Yeah,
right now, I'm all about some Bells and also for
a little Atlanta hometown love. Monday Night Brewing has something
called a food Man Brew, which is a wheat beer

(05:56):
with a bit of ginger infuse into it, which might
sound kind of strange, but ladies and gentlemen, yeah, we
also have red Brick here in Atlanta and Sweetwater, all
sorts of stuff. I don't drink that stuff. I don't
really dream on time. I'm talking about Monday night. Well,
I listen, like to eat drunk your bells, I'll dream
one Monday night. Yeah, but I feel like you and

(06:17):
I even having this conversation, having opinions on craft beer
is like busting stereotypes. Well, that's what we're here to do, Caroline,
is bust some stereotypes, especially stereotypes about beer. And for
followers of stuff, Mom never told you. This is probably
gonna be some repeat info because we have talked before
about how women were the original beer brewers or brewsters.

(06:42):
I love that word. I had no idea that the
word brewster existed for women brewers. Yeah, I love that.
And then of course I just think about Punky Brewster,
and then I started thinking about like, do I know
anyone with the surname Brewster? No, but then the brewer,
and then I think about the Milwaukee brewers, and then
I just like, go have a beer. Yeah, but it okay.
So in a lot of ancient societies, women were the

(07:04):
ones entrusted with the beer making, and and it was
it went beyond that. It wasn't just that women were
the ones who had to do it. It was like
men actively were not trusted to handle the beer. Yeah,
because it was it was that important for these ancient societies.
And there's this cultural anthropologist named Alan D. Eames and
he's dubbed the Indiana Jones of Beer. I want to

(07:25):
hang out with him. Yeah, that's a great title. And
he was talking to mcclean's magazine a few years ago
about how pretty much every ancient society's beer creation myth
starts with a beer goddess. Essentially. Yeah, Egypt had Hathor,
which she sounds like exactly the type of lady I

(07:46):
want to hang out with. She was called the Goddess
of drunkenness, the inventress of brewing, the mistress of intoxication,
and her temple was referred to as the place of drunkenness.
So she had the party palace. She's like the goddess
of the fraternity system. I feel like, ye, Hathor knows
how to have a good time. But I wonder though,

(08:08):
if Hathor ever had parties over at the palace of
Sumerian goddess series who was the one who watched over
the daily brewing rituals? And then so Hathorn series got
together and went over to hang out with Roman goddess
series she's the harvest goddess. And so the name for

(08:29):
beer over there was Sarah Vizia from series is name.
And we should say that Roman Goddess series series with
the c Sumerian got Us series is series was an
s So it might have gotten a little confusing, especially
once all the goddess has had a couple of drinks.
Which series they were talking about, But I'm sure they
probably came up with like fun nicknames. So and that's

(08:51):
how they kind of worked around that. Um, and now
I really want to go to this fictional goddess beer party. Yeah.
But the ancient Finns also had their own lady beer lore.
They believed that three women originally created ale for a
wedding feast by mixing wait for it, beer saliva with

(09:13):
wild honey and then blending it into beer. So like
like wild bears, like or polar bears, any bear, I'm
gonna say, Finnish bears. Finished bear, finished bears. I wonder
they're probably blondes. Um. In medieval England we have the brewsters,
as we said, who oversaw household ale production. A significant

(09:35):
number of these women tended to be widows or single
before the Black Plague and then that kind of change
demographics just a little bit. But you know, talking about
household ale production, everybody was drinking this stuff, from moms
to kids, to dad's to whoever. Yeah, because milk at
the time would have been used mostly for cheese and butter.

(09:56):
Wine too expensive for the commoners to drink, and water
was not potable the Middle Ages. Sounds so fun. Yeah, so,
and it was not only considered hydration but also a
nutritious meal. Yeah, you could have a little beer snack. Yeah,
I wish we had a beer snack right now. But yeah,

(10:18):
for a lot of the women who were in the
a lot of the brewsters, a lot of the women
who were in this trade, it did offer them a
little bit more pay and prestige because if you think
about the occupations that were available to women in the
Middle Ages in England, it probably wouldn't that great, not
too many. Um, but there could be wrinkles that would
pop up every now and then if you were a brewster,

(10:40):
because it could happen that you might cook up a
batch of not so good beer. And in instances where
if people ever got sick from beer, they drink spoiled beer.
It was attributed to witchy brewsters. They were actually called
beer witches. That's my new insult, you witchy. Well, probably

(11:01):
more of a term of endearment, honestly, you witchy brucey,
witchy brewster. And just driving home to how common it
was for everyone, and we mean everyone, to drink beer
and ale throughout the throughout the day, just at any
old time. There was something called groaning ale that pregnant
women would drink to help with any kind of pregnancy pains,

(11:22):
labor pains. And there was also a special bridal ale
that would often be featured at weddings. Yeah, and speaking
of which our modern word for bride had no idea about.
This comes from the Germanic root brew, meaning to brew
b ru Huh. The more you know, the more you know.
But I do wonder about pregnant women drinking ale. I

(11:42):
am a little concerned for our ancestors. But we're here now,
you know things. It was a different time back in
the Middle Ages. Sure, and I'm sure it was not
high gravity. I'm sure they were not drinking They're groaning
ale was not too hearted. Yeah, yeah, it was, let's
hope not. But I mean, if you think about the
technology and advancements of the time it was that was
pretty slow and maybe in part due to all that

(12:04):
groaning gale um. But it's funny though, if you look
at beer in colonial America, same kind of thing going on,
where it's still commonly made, usually by women in the household.
And even though you know, the US was very puritanical
at this time, ale and beer were commonly drunk. And

(12:25):
this is coming from an article in The Atlantic talking
about how women were the family brewers and they would
make rich beers from corn, pumpkin, artichoke, oats, wheat, honey,
and molasses. Interesting artichoke beer, Yeah, I don't, I don't know.
I don't know about that. Well, if somebody out there
makes it, I'll try it. Definitely sounds very earthy, earthy beer.

(12:48):
This beer has artichoke undertones. But this will sound familiar
to listeners who listen to our coffee episode, the coffee
culture episode. When beer brewing move out of the house
and started to become more professionalized, that's when we see
more men taking it over and women kind of leaving

(13:08):
the industry that was growing at the time. Um. You know,
back then, many women brewed only on an occasional basis
and simply couldn't compete with the men who were entering
it professionally. Yeah, and once beer not only started being
made outside of the house, but also drunk outside of
the house. This is happening more towards the Industrial Revolution

(13:29):
when you have guys working outside the home and so
they would perhaps go to a bar afterwards or on
their lunch break, I don't know, for a beer, and
it became improper also kind of like coffee houses, as
we talked about in that coffee episode, for women to
you know, fraternize at this establishment, not so much because

(13:51):
of the alcohol involved, but just because it would have
been improper to be a woman hanging out with all
these men. Like essentially they were assumed to be prostitutes
if they were hanging out at bars. Slight shaming, ye,
old slut shaming. Yeah. It really wasn't until prohibition that
women started going frequenting bars more often. Um, in underground speakeasies. Yeah,

(14:16):
because that's the whole you're getting the rise of the
new woman. Hemlines are going up, inhibitions are going down
along with all that bathtub gin bathtub um. So the
industry really stayed pretty male dominated starting with the professionalization
of the industry. And but we see some exceptions to

(14:38):
the rule. We have at least Miller John who headed
Miller Brewing from ninety nine. She was the first and
so far the only woman to run a major US
brewing company. And I'm gonna guess that since her middle
name is Miller, she was probably born into that role
and took over the company. And so this is part

(14:59):
of why we wanted to dedicate an episode to craft
beer because not only as craft beer on the rise,
as big beer has kind of taken a dip in
recent years sales wise, but more and more women are
being attracted to making and brewing incredible, delicious, tasty. Oh God,
I want to beer so bad. Yeah, I mean, it

(15:21):
seems like it's part of this whole good food movement,
this whole d I Y hobby culture. It's not just
dudes in their garages. There's there's plenty of women out
there who are into this whole culture too. There are
women in garages as well. You know what, I bet.
I've been in a garage, yes, as have I didn't
stay in too long, but I've been in one. Um
speak of big beer, though, Like I said, the sales

(15:44):
have been slipping. They have actually dropped every year from
two thousand eight to two thousand eleven, and I have
a feeling that those numbers have probably continued. And now
there are more than two thousand craft beer labels that
have hopped up, and sales were up in two thousand eleven.

(16:04):
So you see all of a sudden, you know, fewer
Budweiser's and h Miller lights happening, and more more bells,
more Monday night brewing. I'm fine with that. Yeah, I
am hoping. My biased theory is the big beer sale.
I like how we're saying big beer like big tobacco like,
is yeah, well yeah, and and that their sales are
dipping hopefully because they're so terrible and people are finally

(16:27):
realizing that they don't have to drink like swill water.
They can actually drink tasty things. Although okay, although one
fun side note about big beer, Caroline I heard on
in PR a couple of weeks ago that the there
are two standout labels that have seen exponential growth in

(16:47):
recent years also largely do to people who probably um
enjoy craft beers as well on occasion, and that is
PBR and yngling. The hipster effect. The hipster effect. Yeah,
so I thought that was I thought that was really funny.
And I'll be honest, I enjoy an ice cold PBR

(17:09):
every now and then, although as I have aged, I've
started to enjoy craft beer more. Yeah. No, I I
don't think I can do anymore. I mean there was
a really long period like from college when I was
poor too after college, when I was still poor, you know,
two more recent times when I'm pretty much still poor,
that I would just drink a lot of PBR and
that was fine because you know, especially if it's hot

(17:29):
outside Atlanta in the summer and you're you just want
to drink cheap beer and you're hanging out the pattio
with friends, it's basically water. Yeah, but I have it's
been a long time. And I had a PBR for
the first time in a long time the other day
and I was like, actually put it down. I was like,
this is I can't It's gross. It was it can Yeah. Yeah, see,
I can't do a can PBR anymore unless I've had

(17:52):
a couple of beers before that. I can still do
uh you know what, it's not called a fountain a
fountain beer that draft beer, I can I can have
a fountain p BR from Yeah, a little PBR float yeah. Um.
But yeah, so we we're definitely seeing this rise of
craft beer. And women have been part of this craft

(18:15):
beer renaissance since it's very earliest beginnings in the nineteen eighties. Yeah,
I mean in nineteen eight three a woman claimed the
Homebrewer of the Year title in the National Homebrew Competition.
That's impressive. And just four years later, in nineteen eight seven,
Carol Stout founded and still helps run Stouts Brewing Company
in Adamstown, Pennsylvania. And in nineteen eighty nine, Ellen Bounds

(18:37):
and her husband began McCausland Brewery. And a few years
later too, in nine, a woman named Ellen Bouncle and
her husband began the McCausland Brewery. And she recently received
this like really huge prize, like for being this amazing
master brewer. And the interview with her was so interesting

(19:01):
because she talked about when she first started, it was
more of her husband's idea. She had been a school teacher,
didn't never envisioned herself brewing beer, and she said, quote,
it was kind of an old boys network when you
come out of the world of education. Women have always
had an instrumental role there. I wasn't really used to
that form of discrimination, but it became very obvious, very rapidly.

(19:24):
So she talked about her interest increase and she became
more and more involved with the brewery. For instance, if
she would go out on sales calls, people will be like,
what are you doing here? Why? A woman selling beer? No? Yeah,
And that's what you read over and over again in
these interviews with these women who were involved in the industry,
is like, they show up or they're at the brewery whatever,

(19:45):
and people just assume they're like, you know, like promotional
women like the bud light girl or whoever. He's just
there to give you necklaces and shot glasses to at
the beer. Yeah, you know, the whole stereotypical having a
bit of a hard time getting taken seriously. Yeah. And
for for Bouncil, it was just interesting to read to
about how once she started kind of hanging out around

(20:08):
the brew process and got more and more involved with
her husband as they're making beer, she just grew to
love the process of it and now is a master brewer.
I would love if I knew how to do it,
and I had the gumption. I don't know if I
have the patience for it. Yeah, it's like because it's
such a I'm I don't know. I've I enjoy making coffee,

(20:31):
for instance, because I can it'll be in my cup
and I can be drinking it in ten minutes. Yeah, exactly. Um, Well,
we have Kim Jordan's she started the New Belgium Brewery
with her then husband and today she's still the CEO,
and New Belgium happens to be the third largest craft
brewery in the US. Yeah. If you're looking up information

(20:54):
about women and craft brewing, Kim Jordan's name comes up
over and over and over again because she's kind of
held up as the most successful woman in craft beer,
especially because New Belgium has become such a popular label
in recent years. Yeah. And NPR noted that she does
have a lot of women in top leadership positions in

(21:15):
her company, so it's it's a good example of women
helping women. Yeah. Absolutely, So why though, aside from beer
being awesome, why are women particularly attracted to craft brewing?
What's going on here, Caroline? Well, one of the thoughts
is that it has this emphasis on creative flavors and

(21:35):
food pairings as well as, like I mentioned earlier, the
d I y hobby culture, you know, like pinterest is
all the rage, So I don't know, maybe there's some
good beer recipes splitting around of interest. Yeah, I think
it is part of this. Well. We talked about it
a lot in our Craft Revival slash Etsy episode where
um and even the New Domesticity interview that we had

(21:57):
a while back with Emily Matcher about how there right
now in particular, there is this appreciation for making our
own goods, and I think the beer is part of that.
And also with our wine episode, there's some findings of
how women are especially drawn to wine and food pairings,
like they want to they pick something out based on

(22:19):
what the entire meal will be, yeah, right, and and
discussing palettes and things like that, different different flavor notes
and all that stuff. Yeah, I mean it's interesting, like
there there I know plenty of people unfortunately unfortunately for them,
who think that all beer tastes the same is gross,
but there, I mean, especially you'll notice it if you're
drinking one type of amazing beer and switch to another

(22:41):
type of amazing beer. You can immediately tell like how
different the flavors are, you know, And that's not even
to talk about going from that's just brand brand. I'm
you know, I'm not even talking about type to type right. Well,
and that's the that question of what type of beer
do women like? Um is a little bit insulting because
there is the assumption that women will only want hunt
usually like a very fruity beer, like a lambic or something.

(23:05):
Um Like, I don't know. The first thing that pops
into my head is like a beat of purple haze,
which is a little raspberry flavored. You just squinched your nose,
I know, Well, because what's the one I I know
it's obvious, but it's escaping. What's the one that tastes
like blueberries? Uh? Um? Sweetwater blue I cannot drink it.
I cannot give me. Give me fruit any day in

(23:26):
a bowl, I will eat it. Do not put fruit
in my beer unless it's like, you know, like a
wheat beer with an orange in it. But I'm talking
about like I don't like flavored. Yeah, well, a lot
of times they're very sweet and um. The more that
women are getting involved in craft beer and doing tastings
and more research is being paid, or at least as
demographic as even being acknowledged. There's now this is almost

(23:49):
astonishment at the wide range of beers that different women enjoy,
Like we probably have different beer palettes because everybody probably
has a slightly different beer palette, but apparently women really
enjoy sours. We don't love I P A P A
is like all I drink. I enjoyed I P as well.

(24:10):
So I feel like those kinds of uh surveys are
it should always be taken with a grain of salt,
because I mean, it's just different people are going to
like different kinds of things, and even the weather, the
type of weather outside is going to determine the kind
of beer I want. And I mean, and I'm quite
a novice when it comes to beer. And I was
talking to my older sister, who knows far more about

(24:34):
beer and wine and coffee, about this and I mentioned sours. Caroline.
Twenty minutes later she had listed off all of these
different recommendations and all of these different things, and I was,
what is what is that? What is sours? Apparently it's
and I hope I'm not going to butcher this, but
from what I understand, it's it is a little bit
more fruit forward, but not super sweet like a lambic um.

(24:58):
It is, as the name implies, a Dutch sour. Yeah,
and they think that it has to do that women
might like it a little bit more because our because
of the differences in our taste buds, that we might
detect sweet and sour a little bit more, and that
women might not enjoy I p a s as much
because our bitter taste buds are also a little bit

(25:23):
more active than men's. Yeah. See, I I will drink
I p a all day long. Um. But darker beers,
like really really dark beers for some reason, and I'm sorry,
send me hate mail or or an explanation if anybody
out there is a beer science nerd person or free
beer Why do some of those dark beer's tastes like
soy sauce? Oh I get that. Yeah. Maybe I just

(25:45):
have a superior sense of taste, my mommy sense. Man.
We could just I wish we had just turned this
podcast into a virtual beer tasting um. And I hope
that right now listeners are thinking of the beers and
the types of like in the labels that they away
because I am all for trying new kinds of beers,
so be sure to let us know the kinds of

(26:06):
you like. But next up, we want to talk about
one other reason that more and more women are being
drawn into craft beer, and that's due to specific organizations
that are advocating for women to brew and enjoy beer.
And we're going to talk about that when we come
right back from a quick break and now back to

(26:29):
the show. So we were just discussing pretty much ad
nauseum our own personal preferences for beer and asking for
suggestions um. But there is one major influence on more
women getting involved in the craft beer industry, and that
is other women being in the craft beer industry. You

(26:50):
have people like Terry Farrendorff, who started the Pink Boots
Society UH founded in two thousand seven. Farrendorf was a
brew master for twenty years and she basically saw this
need for more women to actually be educated about beer,
enjoy beer, and start brewing their own. Yeah, the the

(27:11):
idea for Pink Boots started when she went on a
cross country tour of all these different breweries and she
was struck with how few women she saw on the
brewery floors actually making the beer, and also from her
own experience as a brew master, having men assumed that
she wasn't strong enough to brew beer, didn't have the

(27:32):
palette for it, just like couldn't do it by virtue
of her being a woman. And I mean she's also
just highly accomplished. She was, for instance, the first female
class president in the history of the Civil Institute of
Brewing Technology in Chicago, where she went. She was the
first female brewmaster in craft brewing in the US, and

(27:53):
the first woman brewmaster in California and Oregon's craft brewery industries.
And so she, you know, beyond qualified to start this
organization that now boast more than eight hundred members. And
there's plenty of other organizations and ladies only brewing events
that you can look up on the internet. I highly

(28:13):
recommend it. Groups like Barley's Angels, which is a network
in several states actually that sets up women only beer
nights at local bars. You can go drink, learn about
what you're drinking, make friends, all that good stuff. There's
also women Enjoying Beer dot Com, uh, Eagle Rock Breweries,
Women's Beer Forum, and on and on and on. Yeah,
I feel like the more beer festivals that you see

(28:35):
to the more uh people you see their specifically promoting
women and beer, whether it's like women run labels or
these events for inviting women to come in and try
different beers and perhaps a less intimidating setting where you know,
men might not just assume that they want some blueberry

(28:55):
beer and that's it, and nothing wrong with blueberry beer
if that's your jam, it's to really fine. Um. And
but but it's really cool to see this kind of
you know, this kind of grassroots organization happening. And a
side note, if you're curious as to why Pink Boots
Society is called the Pink Boots Society, Um, it's because

(29:15):
Terry Ferendorff's um brewing boots are pink. And it's just
kind of a thing of like, yeah, we're brewing beer
and we're doing it in pink boots. So that's what
that means. So it's great that there are all these
efforts going on to encourage more women to get involved
in the industry. Brew the beer, enjoy the beer, get involved,
all this good stuff. But there's still so many hurdles,

(29:36):
it seems like, for women to even drink the beer
in the first place. There's all of these assumptions that
beer is just a man thing. I mean, we still
see ridiculous ads out there that are targeting men with
just like Busty Broad selling their booze and it's like, no, um, hello,
there's like other women out here who would like to
drink beer too. One thing that I've noticed as well

(29:57):
in terms of the masculinization and of beer um and
and we talked about like gendering and alcohol two in
our wine episode, like you see it all over the place.
Pick a type of liquor or alcohol and it's it's
probably gendered in its advertising. Um. But one thing I've
noticed is how cider is often considered more of a

(30:18):
girlier drink. And but I've seen a couple of cider
companies specifically with the way that they advertise, usually male voices,
and are they're trying to sell cider to a male customer,
Like it's it's just so clear in the way that

(30:38):
they're selling like this is its cider, this is hard
uple man smash or something, you know. Uh so it's
it's it's kind of interesting to watch. But there are
companies too that are that want to acknowledge that, yes,
female beer beer drinkers absolutely exists, so let's cater to them.
But the efforts have been mixed. For instance, Danish beer

(31:02):
Carlsberg tried a couple of years ago to sell this
what it called gender neutral malt, wheat and rice logger,
which sounds interesting. Actually I'll try it, um, But it
was so clearly just targeted at women. They were saying
it was gender neutral, but it was. It was very feminine. Yeah,

(31:22):
it was in It's in a crystal clear bottle. It's
a very light logger. The labels white, there's like gold
lettering and all the stuff, and and it made me wonder.
It actually made me wonder about all the beers I drink.
I had to go through all the labels, and I
was like, do I consider any of them gendered labels? Yeah?
I don't think so. I mean, even if you look

(31:43):
at like a bud light, can there's nothing about a
bud light can it says men, right, I mean right, yeah,
it's um. It doesn't seem like the answer to getting
more women to drink beer is to feminize the design.
Perhaps maybe just remove some of the old stereotypical you know,

(32:05):
bikini clad babes. Serving guys beers and commercials that would
probably be helpful. I mean, the fact of the matter is,
too women drink less beer than guys. Do. We prefer wine.
Of women, at least according to an August Gallop Pole,
of women prefer wine over other alcoholic beverages, whereas of

(32:28):
men prefer beer. But we are drinking more beer than
ever before, do partially to this rise in craft beer. Yeah.
I think it's nice to sort of get the craft
beer word out there that there are other options. I mean,
maybe there are people, both women and men, who aren't
drinking beer because they think it all tastes like Miller
something something something, you know. But there's there's other and

(32:50):
better things out there. Yeah. And there was even uh,
this was so appropriate for this episode. There was one
beer that was developed for to promote International Women's Day
and I wasn't able to find it. Um, but there's
actually a craft beer called feminist Beer. And and and
the brand that puts it out is also Escaping V.

(33:12):
But they're here, and there are these like overt kind
of a ladies, listen up, we get you here you go. Yeah,
drive feminist beer. Sure, um, And I would if anybody
wants to send it to me. Yeah, sure, if you've
got a six pack of feminist beer, send it our way. Um.
And there was a good point put forth though by

(33:33):
Serious Eats recently um in a round up that they
were doing of like five things that you need to
know about the craft beer industry, and they say that
women have solidified their place in beer as drinkers, brewers,
lab texts, monsters, sales reps, bar owners, and homebrewers, but
they also continue to show up half naked on beer
labels or caught up in insulting double entendres. So it's

(33:57):
like we've we're making progress beer wise, but there's still
that kind of implicit sexism of the assumption that it
is a guy's drink, that women don't necessarily have the
chops to make it, that we don't really take it seriously. Right,
But an encouraging sign is that one of the articles
we read was pointing out that both women and younger

(34:19):
men in general are turned off by these like stereotypically
like super hyper masculine uh men being served by busty
broads with their beer, right, I mean turned off by
that ad? Yeah, because those kinds of ads are not
just insulting to women, they're also insulting to men. Sure,
so maybe there's there's hope a little bit there for
as far as marketing anyway. Yeah, and of all the

(34:40):
interviews that I read of women who are either involved
in homebrewing or larger craft breweries, they acknowledge that, yeah,
there is still some of this implicit sexism that they
run up against, of the perceptions that they might just
be shot girls sort of. Um, but that overall they've
sensed the you know, it is improving, and then a

(35:01):
lot of times it's just an exposure thing. Guys are
surprised to see them because we're still a minority in
that industry. But now we want to hear from you,
fair listeners. What are your thoughts on women and beer
also just beer in general. If you have beer recommendations
for Caroline and me, we heartily accept all of them

(35:22):
and we will probably try all of them. Were beer fans.
Not everybody's a beer fan either. That's totally fine, um,
but I encourage you to try try different beers, support
craft breweries. I mean, it's I think it's a cool,
a cool thing that's happening. It's an interesting renaissans Foot
and I am very excited about it. Yeah, and if

(35:42):
there are any brewers listening, we would love to hear
your inside perspective on women in the industry. So share
your beer thoughts, brewsters, brewers one and all. Mom Stuff
at discovery dot com is where you can send your letters,
or you can tweet us at mom Stuff pie Cast,
or send us a Facebook message and we have a
couple of messages to share with you right now. So

(36:13):
I've got a couple of letters here about our episode.
Hey Ladies, Ema rights very interesting podcast. I actually had
no idea that the word lady had a negative history,
but now, thanks to you lovely ladies, I do interestingly.
When I was five years old, my idea of being
a lady was a very desirable idea. I thought ladies

(36:35):
were beautiful, confident, and well respected. I also liked the
idea of wearing my mom's lipstick. I liked this so
much that one day, when my mother asked me what
I wanted to be for Halloween, I responded, without hesitation,
a lady. I have no idea what my mother thought
initially about my very confident response, but I'm happy to
say that my mother did actually let me pick out

(36:55):
my costume so that I could be the best lady
in my five year old imagining, san I dressed up
in what I think was a Cinderella nightgown, pink leggings,
and smothered my face and face paint close to what
I imagine makeup should look like on a pretty lady.
Long story short, I ended up being rolled around our
local grocery store in a wagon dressed as a lady,

(37:16):
throwing out chocolate Looney's too unsuspecting shoppers while yelling Happy
Halloween from the ladies. That might be the most adorable
thing I've ever heard. Yeah, we just had to take
a laugh break on that one. She she signs off.
I guess I was a bit of a strange kid. Oh, Emma,

(37:39):
no stranger than Caroline and me. I shure you. I
still put on my paint leggings under my Cinderella nightgowns.
Do you want me to pull you in a wagon
through at the grocery store? Long? Dos you give me chocolate?
I'm fine? Okay? This is from Sarah. She says, I'm
American but have grown up in the UK and spent
my middle in high school years at a school called
Harrogate Ladies College. No, we didn't have to balance books

(38:01):
on our heads or have daily tea parties, but we
did go to chapel four times a week and had
to wear fifteen pound floor length woolen cloaks while doing so.
I tried to think of how often we were actually
referred to collectively as ladies, but we were more commonly
referred to as girls, both by teachers when addressing us
as a group and when referring to certain sets of people.
Students who didn't board were called day girls. Students who

(38:24):
had graduated and came back to visit were old girls,
even if they happened to be in their fifties or
sixties at the time. I love the podcast, Keep up
the good work, Female humans, and thank you for the
letter female listeners, Sarah, and thanks to all of us
listeners male and female, who have written into us Mom
Stuff Discovery dot com is where you can send us

(38:45):
your letters or you can connect to us via social
all of which you can find in addition to our blogs, podcasts,
and videos, every single one of them at stuff Mom
Never Told You dot com for more on this and
thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works? Dot
com