SMNTY Classics: Wangari Muta Maathai

Friend of the show Yves drops by to share the story of Nobel Peace Prize winner and founder of the Green Belt Movement Wangari Muta Maathai in this classic episode.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this Sandy and Samantha. I do welcome to Stephane.
Never told you protection to I Heart Radio. So as
this comes out, it is April, and it's here in Atlanta.
Spring is in full swing. I mean we've got a

(00:27):
lot of like fluctuating weather though we've got it was
forty degrees when I woke up this morning, I was like,
eighty degree. This up and down has really gotten my
body like nope, yes, yes, Samantha's feeling the pressure the
weight of the weather change and this jet. Yeah, the

(00:48):
pollens out, um, but it is lovely outside and it's
very green. Um. I was lucky enough to get to
visit my mom who kind of lives in North Georgia
Reese at me Um and her yard is just beautiful,
like greenery and flowers in bloom and it made me
kind of like, oh, yes, the outdoors, I have missed you.

(01:14):
But we've been doing a lot of content around environmentalism
and Earth Day. If you haven't checked out, um the
book clubs we just did on Leah Thomas's book, Um,
Intersectional Environmentalism, go check that out. It's just so important
to keep in mind the intersectional aspect of of this issue,
and as part of that, we wanted to bring back

(01:37):
uh this female first that we did with Eves a
while back on Gengari Muta maattai Um and all of
the work that she did around um, the environment and
sustainability that unfortunately doesn't get highlighted enough. So please enjoy
this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and welcome to

(02:02):
Stuff Mom Never Told your production of I Heart Radio's
House Step Parts. It is the first female first. We
are joined once again by our good friend and co
worker eavese Hi. Thanks so much for being here, Thank

(02:25):
you for having me again. We just had a rousing
discussion about aliens and how they should look, resolutions, running
um and disliking running, and then a little bit of
our kind of disastrous mornings. Even I had a bit
of a mishaps. We made it through them, which is

(02:45):
an important part we did. We did. You're here to
tell the tale that actually is probably a very important
part to a lot of these female first we talked about, Yeah,
you're right, because they do get pretty intense in some parts,
Like they went through a lot, they struggled a lot,
and they fought a lot, but you know, they did
a lot of good things too, Yes, and the one
the person you brought for us today. She did so

(03:08):
much and very important to the discussions we're having now
around the environment and sustainability, things that are on a
lot of people's minds, as it should be. Yeah, that's
exactly what I was thinking. I was like, I feel like,
it's really good to be able to talk about today.

(03:28):
We're going to be talking about man Gari Mutta Mattai
Um And she did a lot of stuff that had
to do with environmental activism and that is clearly something
that we're talking about right now today. And I didn't
choose say, oh, let me find somebody who's doing something
that has to do with the environment. It just kind
of came like, oh, she's someone who is, you know,

(03:51):
first of all from the African continent, which I feel
like maybe we've maybe we've discussed somebody from the African
continent so far, I can't remember, but yeah, like that
was really important to me. And also the actual work
that she's doing is so relevant into what we're talking about,
and it's also very recent and also had a very

(04:12):
global impact. Um And she knows that she's talking about,
she knows what she's doing and She's also left a
great legacy behind her that just kind of touched people
of all different cultures and people of all different nationalities,
which I think is a really cool thing. Yeah, And
I was reading her her story. I we always stress

(04:33):
the importance of context in these stories that we um
that you bring to us, um, and it's it is
recent and it's kind of shocking how much she did
and how much things have changed just through the sixties
and seventies, kind of just this tumultuous cauldron of all
these things happening. And it's also just, you know, very

(04:58):
indicative of the actual issues that people were going through
in Kenya and on the African continent at the time,
because obviously environmental issues are global issues, but they're also
very specific to the locales and the climates in which
all the activists separately reside. Um. They're all different but
also related in some way. And I think her perspective

(05:19):
and how she kind of got into her activism and
her work is indicative of that. But I feel like
I'm getting ahead of myself right now. Yeah, I'm just like,
oh my god, she's amazing, and I haven't who she
really is, so yeah, but I was the first African
woman to win the Nobel Prize, and she was the

(05:41):
first woman to become an assistant professor at the University
of Nairobi. She was the first woman to head a
university department in Kenya and the first woman in Eastern
and Central Africa to earn a PhD. So a lot
of first Yeah, that's what we're here for, right, that's right.
So she was born on April first, nineteen forty and Neary, Kenya,

(06:04):
and she was the daughter of kiku You subsistence farmers.
The kiku You are an ethnic group in Kenya. She
had five siblings and she was raised in an area
of Kenya that was known as the White Highlands, which
is so called because there was policy that certain agricultural
lands in Kenya should be reserved for Europeans. So her
older brother convinced their parents that she go to school

(06:26):
rather than focus on household responsibilities, which you could imagine
were plentiful because she had so many siblings, um rather
big family to take care of. She went to the
Ta Primary School, the St. Cecilia School and then the
Laredo Lemuro Girls School. So after completing school there, she
got a scholarship and that's because the Kennedy administration in

(06:49):
the U S at the time was funding initiatives for
people in Eastern Africa and then Kenya specifically to study
in the US, and so that's how she got a
scholarship to study at university in the US. So where
she ended up going was Mount Saint Scholastica College in Kansas,

(07:12):
and she stayed in US to study at university for
a bit. She graduated with her bachelor's in biology in
nineteen sixty four, and then she stayed in the US
she got her masters from the University of Pittsburgh in Pennsylvania.
And then so by this time when she returned to
Kenya after she graduated, the whole Eastern colonialism processes and

(07:34):
then Kenya had gained its independence and when she went
back there was she had a research assistant position that
had been promised to her. So she was recruited to
be a research assistant in zoology and that was at
the University of Nairobi, and she found out when she

(07:56):
got to the campus that she had been denied the
position and she thought that that was because of gender discrimination.
So after that she got another research assistant position and
this time it was in a department of veterinary anatomy,
so she started. She continued working. She was not discouraged
by that, so she started pursuing her doctoral studies in Germany.

(08:20):
She got her PhD from the University of Nairobing, so
she was the first woman to get a doctorate degree
in East and Central Africa. Wow, that's pretty I can't
even imagine writing the first person or a woman anything. Yeah,
that level of achievement, at that level of achievement. Yeah, yeah,
my first surb not not on that same plane. That's cool,

(08:45):
though he didn't lead a pathway for other women, not
that I know of such a thing, not that I
know of. I mean, just like I wonder the reporting
on it, or they're like, wow, look, this woman has
become the first to do this, and all the negativity
possibly probably, but as we know from I feel like

(09:09):
previous people and just in general how these things work,
a lot of those first aren't recognized in a contemporary manner.
It's just like the person is doing a thing, and
then we go back and look at them, sometimes posthumously,
you know, way back in the day. Um, but we
start to realize, okay, you know this, this happened, and

(09:29):
this is part of a long story and a long
lineage of people and things that they did, so we
kind of situate the first within that history after a
lot of tom Right, that's true. That's a good point.
As far as her personal life, she married an Robi
businessman who kind of had aspirations in politics, and she

(09:51):
married him in nineteen sixty nine. She met him a
few years before, and eventually they had three kids together,
and he ran for parliament in the early nineteen seventies.
His first campaign was unsuccessful, even though she helped him
with that, and then later in their story in the
early nineteen eighties, they went through this whole divorce suit

(10:13):
and he accused her of adultery, and it's also said
that he thought that she was too educated and too
strong willed and minded and too hard to control, and
that was part of the reason that they got a divorce.
But it was a pretty contentious situation. Um she ended
up going to court, she lost the case, they ended

(10:34):
up being divorced. She was even jailed for a short
time about three days afterward, because she accused the judge
of being incompetent whoa And this is also when his
last name was spelled with one A M A M
T H A I, and she changed her name to
have two a's because of the whole situation. You requested that, Yeah,

(10:58):
so it was that was you know, later in life
after years of them having been together, they separated before
they divorced, but yeah, that was part of their story. Yeah.
So in nineteen seventy three, and this is where we
get to all of the things. Obviously we're not going
to have room to like talk about every single thing

(11:20):
that she did because she did so many different things. Um,
but in nineteen seventy three, she became the director of
Nairobi's branch of the National Red Cross. So we see
her already in the late sixties early seventies getting into
all of her activism, all of her environmental work, and
realizing through her research and just her personal life like observation.

(11:44):
The thing I really love about her story is like
how often we think of how we think of academics
in terms of the work that they do, Like they
did all this study at these universities, and this is
their education, is what influenced them and what made them
be able to address issues in a certain way. But
observation is also a very important thing in our lives

(12:05):
that can drive us to do better things because and
I think her story is just a great example of that.
Like she talks about how much in her during her
childhood and during her life, how she was just noticing
what was happening around her, how she was listening to
village women tell her what they needed, and that observation
is a big part of what drove her to do

(12:25):
her environmental work, realizing that she could connect the things
that are actually happening around her and the work that
she's interested in doing, and the skills that she does have,
and the education that she is getting and combining the two, well,
those several things together to really create a huge impact.
So I really like that about her story. Um. Yeah,
So she started moving up in her roles at the university.

(12:48):
She became a senior lecturer in the nineteen seventies, and
she became the chair of her department, and then she
became an assistant professor in nineteen seventy seven. And so
her postdoctoral research made her, as I was saying, aware
of all the things that was happening in her country,
especially in the rural areas, and all the issues that

(13:09):
people were facing, whether that had to do with the
environment or like personal issues, and we'll we'll get into
some of the things that specifically that drove her research
that was happening in Kenya at the time. So later
her husband campaign for a seat and in parliament again
in one of this is before they divorced. One thing
that he advocated for was finding jobs for the unemployed.

(13:31):
And so with that spirit, that energy that was happening,
Mattai connected that need to her environmental efforts and then
she started this business called envirol Care where she was
getting people to plant trees. That business wasn't that successful,
but those efforts did lead her to you know, more
successful efforts, and the connections that she already had with

(13:53):
all these people through the work that she was doing
led to her getting the National Council of Women of
Kenya to help her launch a tree planting project called
Save the Land her on Bay and her on Bay
is the Swahili word that means all pull together, and
that eventually turned into the green belt movement, which is
one of her, you know, the most well known initiatives.

(14:14):
Even though she did a time right, yeah, time, but
that's that's a huge organization. She was active in the
National Council of Women of Kenya for a really long time.
From around night seven, while she was serving with them,
she started introducing this idea of community based tree planting

(14:36):
that she had already introduced through her other work. Much
of the population in Africa dependent on what for fuel,
but at the time there was a lot of deforestation happening.
So as their still is UM, but trees were depleting
because they were being raised and they weren't being replaced

(14:56):
at the same rate UM. So obviously that least two
a lot of different issues, including nutritional deficiencies, poverty because
there would be they had to walk a long way
to get water to be able to get the fuel UM.
There was desert where there once was trees. The deforestation
also caused soil runoff and water pollution, which is obviously

(15:20):
important to a person being able to sustain themselves in
terms of the food that they eat. And speaking of
sustaining themselves, a lot of the children also had to
start being fit with processed foods because of this, and
livestock didn't have vegetation to eat. And on top of
all that, under the colonial period, like British governors. They

(15:41):
were planting non native trees instead of indigenous trees. So
it just had all these effects on the way that
people lived, in their ability to live whole in fruitful lives.
So she started getting into all that and realizing how
that affected people and specifically women, and she opened an

(16:04):
agency that paid impoverished people to plant trees and shrubs.
And so she decided to campaign for a seat in
parliament that would become open and neary in nWo and
to do this, she had to resign from the University
of Narobi. That was one condition that she she couldn't
be there to be able to run, and so the

(16:26):
electoral authorities said that she couldn't run. She was just
qualified for running because she hadn't registered to vote. So
because of that registration in the last presidential election, because
that registration technicality, they kind of pulled her out of
that situation, and she obviously took issue with that decision,
but she needed up, you know, being disqualified anyway, and

(16:51):
wanted to go back to the university because obviously she
needs a job, and they refused to rehire her or
restore her benefits, and they evicted her from university housing
since she was no longer there anymore. Oh man, m
that's time time. So that's definitely one thread in her story,

(17:17):
which is there were she had a lot of opposition.
So she did have a lot of supporters and also
supported a lot of people through employment and just like
you know, personal support, but she had a lot of
people who opposed the work that she was doing because
she was so pro democracy, the things that she was
talking about, the things that she was standing up against,

(17:39):
and was viewed as kind of anti government, and in
that respect, a lot of the press that she got
in that the Green Belt movement got in the media
that was negative and because of that, a lot of
people were discouraged for wanting to be associated with the

(18:02):
movement because of its you know, reputation, But it was
still a successful movement, which we'll get into too. So
she poured her energy into that Green Belt movement um
and its main focus was poverty reduction and environmental conservation

(18:24):
and focusing on this singular, this goal of planting trees,
and its goal was to plant trees all across canyon
to fight erosion and to create firewood for the fuel
for people there, and to create jobs for women, because
women were really instrumental and being the people who planted
the trees. And so over the years they planted tens

(18:47):
of millions of trees in Africa. Yes, they did this
by establishing tons of nurseries that offered free seedlings to
people UM and then the communities would plant them and
very small a small payment was given for every tree
that was planted, but they had to make sure that
they took care of the tree for three months. That

(19:07):
was part of the deal. And even though it's a
small amount, that could make a big difference in someone's life. Um,
for many of those women who were subsistence farmers that
didn't have extra food to give for our to sail,
not give that money was some of their only income.
Well Man ten millions was able to help that many

(19:31):
in different ways. That's amazing. Yeah, it is, Yeah, and
I think that would be really cool. I know we'll
probably get to this later, but there's an interview UM
that when Gary did with um on on being and
she described the power of seeing a tree that you've
planted like years and years later, just knowing that you
did that and it's outlast. Yeah, yeah, that this tree

(19:57):
kind of became the tree itself through all the work
that she did kind of became this movement of like democracy,
of like the legacy of so many things through the
work that she did. Ye, So, yeah, that's a really
good point. And all the work through the green belt
movement also helped conserve the soil and the ecology of
the land and obviously gave thousands of people opportunities for employment.

(20:22):
And she worked over time, this became more than just
about trees. Obviously it was that from the beginning, but
they also started to provide other services besides tree planting.
So she worked with the National Council of Women of
Kenya to give services like family planning, like nutrition, food security,
HIV awareness, and leadership skills. So it became this environmental

(20:46):
and civic educational program for people, and that ended up
spreading its tendrils throughout a bunch of countries in Africa
and throughout the world as well, and eventually it formerly
separated from the National Council of Women of king Him
and she. Even though Mattai was already so involved in politics,

(21:07):
she became more involved in politics over time and protests
and activism, and in the nineteen eighty nine she protested
the construction of a huge office tower in Uhuru Park
in Nairobi. So she started sending out a bunch of
letters to all of these people, different government officials, different

(21:29):
organizations and Kenya to protest, like just putting the pressure
on people to protest this office tower being built. It
was a whole complex thing, and she claimed that the
building was expensive and that money should instead be spent
on other things because this is going to be a
tens of millions of dollar project like poverty, hunger and education.

(21:51):
And obviously this project had a bunch of foreign investors.
And through all of the protesting that happened, even though
she was getting a lot of black impress once again
for her protest and for not being quiet, complacent and
all those things that you know a woman's supposed to be,

(22:14):
she still managed to like that that whole protests managed
to be successful and investors ended up pulling out of
the whole situation not long after her protesting began, and
the skyscraper wasn't built, So that was one thing of
the many things that she protested against. And she also

(22:36):
opposed the one party state that there was in Kenya
at the time, so Matta was also involved in the
Forum for the Restoration of Democracy, which was a group
that opposed among other things. This group kind of branched
off had groups in different countries, but and Kenya, it
was opposed to the leadership of the President Daniel are
At Moy and her opposition earned her the ire of

(22:57):
the president not just through her work with the Forum,
but also all the other things that she was doing.
So going back to that project with the Office Tower,
he was really against her speaking up about that too
and had a lot of nasty things to say about
her for her vocalizations on that issue, and she faced

(23:18):
many risks, beatings and dealings because of the work that
she was doing. She advocated for the release of political
prisoners and in she wanted to hunger strike with the
group of mothers of political prisoners and that ended up
being successful, even though she had a lot of other

(23:39):
people who were involved in the strike. We're beaten by
police during the protest, but at the end of that strike,
the government did released the majority of the political prisoners.
We have a lot more of our discussion with Ease,
but first we have a quick break for a word
from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you, sponsor, Let's

(24:14):
get back into it. She was also arrested for more
of her protest and later charged with spreading rumors that
the president was planning to turn government power over to
the military. And so while she was in jail waiting
on her charge, she was refused medical treatment. So it's
just like it's there was a lot of like fighting

(24:36):
happening there. Like, there was a lot of conflict and
a lot of this kind of fabrication of like issues
when it came to the work that she was doing
because she was so vocal and because she was so
active um in her environmental causes. She said that she
was running for parliament and for the presidency as part

(24:58):
of the Liberal Party of and Yeah, and as part
of her campaign, she was continuing to say the same
things be about be about what she had always been about,
basically denouncing the corruption in the government and imagining a
society where people really embraced their cultural with spiritual background

(25:21):
um as they participated in government. But her candidacy was
withdrawn by the party without notifying her until days before
the election. That said, she didn't announce her campaign until
not long before the election itself, but she ended up

(25:41):
not getting that parliament seat. Wow, they didn't tell her.
It's just like people are afraid of strong women. This
is true of power and obviously the opposition they had
to do everything they could to try to undermine her. Yeah,
he was determined. Another thing that she did as part

(26:04):
of all her work was working on the Jubilee two
thousand campaign, which was this global campaign UM, but in
her case when she became the co chair of the
campaign in Kenya, which she did in n UM specifically
focusing on the countries in Africa, but the whole campaign
was aiming to cancel foreign debt for poor countries by

(26:27):
the year two thousand, which is where the number two
thousand comes from and the name of the campaign. Yeah,
so she wasn't There were a lot of people who
were against her, including you know moy and all a
bunch of other government officials and just people in general
UM who didn't like how she was challenging government and
how she was speaking up for all these pro democracy

(26:49):
positions and all these activities that she had going on
in relation to that. Just as some examples, she was
hospitalized in or a head wound and a concussion that
she suffered during uh government arranged attacks. So she was
working on this project where she and some supporters were

(27:11):
planting trees in the Corea forest which is in Nairobi,
and she was protesting against the clearing of the forest
for a private development. Um. That's one thing that happened
to her. At another point, they forced the Great Belt
Movement to mood from its office um in a government

(27:31):
owned building to her home. Um. She when she formed
the Tribal Classes Resettlement Volunteer Service in nineteen to help
victims of state sectioned political violence in the Rif Valley,
the government accused her of inciting violence and tried to
shut down her organizations meetings by sending and police to

(27:54):
disrupt things. Yeah. So those are just some of the
things that she was up against. Um, the list could
go on, but we won't do that. Yeah, it sounds
like quite a lot. And she definitely put her She
was somebody who put her body on the line. Say
she was a powerhouse and everything her obviously in her
work and her ethic and and just in her beliefs.

(28:17):
She was unmovable. The plant like a tree, yes, oh,
look at that. Actually don't work together. Civil war. There
we go. We got to America. Yeah, I'm actually surprised
there haven't been more tree puns, but I'm glad it's
not appropriate. You're saving them for the end, is what
you're really doing. And they're all in my keeping them

(28:40):
to myself for once. You're writing it for later writing
them down. So one of her biggest opponents, boy left
office in two thousand two, and that same year she
ran for parliament and was elected with a large majority
of the vote. Um the president and ended up appointing

(29:01):
her the Minister for Environment, Natural Resources in Wildlife and
she served in the government and in Parliament until two
thousand five. And this is um We're getting into the
later years of her life at this point, and she
was recognized for a lot of her work. She got
a lot of honorary degrees and awards, like too many

(29:24):
to mention here, um, but a ton of them. But
one of the big ones was the Nobel Peace Prize,
which she got into thousand four and she was the
first African woman to get the Nobel Peace Prize and
she got it for her contribution to sustainable development, democracy
and peace. So that's that's one of the awards that

(29:45):
she got. And in her acceptance speech, which, um, it's
really interesting. She noted how she was influenced by the
things that you know, as we were talking about earlier,
she observed when she was a child in Kenya. Um,
she saw for us being cleared and replaced by commercial plantations,
and she saw a local bio diversity being destroyed. And

(30:10):
she also said that when she started the green Belt movement,
she was really responding to the needs that rural women
were saying that they had, which were specifically the lack
of firewood, clean drinking water, balanced diets, shelter, and income.
And she also called out to the fact which is
how integral women were in the development of the work

(30:33):
that she wanted to do with the green Belt movement
and the work that she ended up doing with the movement,
and that be saying that because they were primary caretakers
throughout Africa there was responsible for taking care of the
land and for taking care of the family, that they
were often the first ones to become aware of any

(30:54):
environmental damage that was happening, even if they didn't recognize
how one thing was necessarily affecting the other in their
personal experience, right, Yeah, And she got yeah, so some
of the other awards that she got were the Goldman
Environmental Prize, the French Legion of Honor, Japan's Grand Cordon
of the Order of the Rising Sun. Um like i

(31:15):
said more honorary degrees. He also authored several books. One
of them was a memoir that was called Unbowed and
another book called a Challenge for Africa and other writings.
She was named a un Messenger of Peace in two
thousand nine, and the next year, in partnership with the
University of Narrobi, she found at the Wangari Matai Institute

(31:37):
for Peace and Environmental Studies. And yeah, so she just
continued help not only doing her own work and her
organization when it came to environmental causes, but also participating
in like teaching other people about those things and making
sure that other people learned about environmental issues when it

(32:00):
came to academics, but just general you know, environmental education
for people. Um so, you know, spreading all of that
knowledge around the world. And in two thousand eleven she
was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and she ended up dying
that year from complications of the cancer. Yeah, but her

(32:20):
legacy that was what you know, only so long ago.
But you know, her legacy is clearly still a parent
in the world and a parent in Kenya, and she's
well remembered and fortunately was able to be recognized during
her lifetime. Yeah, And I think one of my favorite

(32:42):
things about her and the things that she did is
there is this awareness of taking care of the future,
of looking out for future generations. That she started all
of these things and spread her knowledge to make sure
that things would continue once she was no longer around.

(33:03):
And I actually think that's one of the biggest problems
with humanity is and when it comes to sustainability, is
we're really bad about doing that. We're really bad about
thinking about future generations because right now this is the
easy thing to do, to continue as we are. But
she made sure that she's left behind these things so

(33:26):
that hopefully we could continue the work that she was doing.
Right it seems her whole ideas were an idea of
the big picture. She didn't see as a one little thing.
It was we're planting trees. As we're planting trees, but
with these things in mind, whether it's to provide economic
stability for a group of women, a group of people

(33:48):
who need that assistance right now, but we'll do it
through this avenue. She had this very thoughtful consciousness of
how to get things done in a multifacet way, which
is phenomenal, especially when you think of how little that
happens today. There's no real conversation of what can we
do and put it together as a blanket, not necessarily

(34:10):
a blanket, but at least an overhaul of the whole system.
And that's what she did, which all on her own,
which is phenomenal, especially with all of the pushback and seeing, okay,
you go, you aren't seeing the bigger picture. You're just
angry because I'm making a difference and it could be
taken away from you, whether it's money or your fame
or your credibility. But this is what it has to
be done. That's phenomenal. It's a whole different level of

(34:33):
thoughtfulness and a whole different level of understanding the need
for sustainability and the needs to for growth and the
need to continue beyond. Yeah. And I think that to
the interesting point about what she said of her being
having this kind of multifascinating way in which she worked,
is that her vision was also very singular um and
focused and like she was like, I have a goal, Um,

(34:57):
I know how I can get the thing done, and
we're going to get it done end. We're going to
get it done together. And just the way in which
she empowered so many people, not in not from a
position of like I have the things, and I have
the knowledge, and I have the education. I was fortunate
enough to go to you know, us to study, you know,
under this scholarship that was funded by the government or

(35:18):
anything like that. It was just kind of like, I'm
not giving these people these things, these opportunities because I'm
able to do that because she isn't. She is using
her position of power, obviously, But it was in such
a way that was community lad you know, it was
in such a way that was about the way that
people were together and just it being so inspiring the

(35:40):
fact that she realized how important it was to incorporate
all these other things when it came to the leadership
development and stuff like that, where this wasn't just about
a person here, They're getting this many Kenyan Sinse too.
You know, grow a tree. It was about growing tree
these and creating a better environment and creating a better world,

(36:03):
and within that, creating better communities that were able to
thrive and not just survive, and that were connected and
that were you know, uh, future focus, but also present focus,
where in a way they were like, this is my
community that I have now, and I'm working together with
them to really in this embodied way where my hands

(36:24):
are on the soil and I'm really contributing to the
future of my community. But also I'm thinking about our
children that are here right now. What kind of food
am I feeding them? What do our traditional diets look like?
But also their future, like what will the land look
like to them? Will they be able to respect their land?
The children are learning to respect the land at the

(36:44):
same time. Um, it's I just think, Yeah, everything that
she was doing was so important, but I'm just still
struck by how many different things but still how tight
like her vision was right and that's it was very coesive,
we very coesive. Yeah, And that's an amazing balancing act

(37:09):
to pull up of. Yeah, we need to think about
the future generations, but we also have to think about
the president. Like to be able to do both, I
mean that's amazing. Yeah, And I also really find so
many of these women need bring to us ease. I
find it so impressive that we know as women, at

(37:32):
least I can speak from my own I always have
all these doubts. I have all these doubts, and a
lot of times it keeps me from even putting myself
forward for things. And that's we know, that's why a
lot of women don't run for office. And it's not
to say that the women you've brought to us don't
have doubts, but they just were like, somebody needs to
do this. I can do it. I'm going to step up. Well.

(37:55):
I mean, you and I have talked about the times
that we get criticisms and that kind of sometimes shots
me down. I can't imagine the level of lies and
criticisms that were thrown at her purposely by the most
powerful man in that country, in that nation, at that point.
I mean I could not. I don't know. I don't
know how it would fathom or even feel under pressure,
but to continue forth and still keep fighting, and still

(38:16):
keep fighting, still being told you know, you are whatever
damaging by those who have the loudest voices, But knowing
that she can make a difference than what she's doing
is like, right, it's amazing, and it's to look back
on it now you're like, oh, wow, that's encouraging. But
to be in the middle of that, I don't know,
you know, it's like, oh, the fear of failing is
already there. But being told you're ruining something or you're

(38:40):
being your disaster to something. What a way to have
to fight against that? How do you do that? And
how was she able to do that? And she did though,
and finally got what she deserved all the accolades as
she did earn. But man, that road to get there, right,
it had to be a long, long, very loud. Yeah. Um,

(39:04):
it's impressive and inspiring in a good way to start
the year. The female first, Um, is there anything else
you want to have you? I don't think so. I
would highly recommend The interview on on being is very beautiful. Yeah,
and just anything where she's speaking, Yes, highly recommend if

(39:26):
you're looking for some some inspiration and like a newfound
appreciation of trees. Oh my gosh. Right, we are also
in a city of trees, so we are. It's a
big if. Speaking of things being topical. Uh, that is
a topic of conversation in Atlanta where we are right now,
which is that we've historically been called the city of

(39:48):
like the city in the forest, and we are known
for having a ton of trees, which we're not the
biggest metropolis like in the United States and definitely not
in the world, but for being a city of our
hallis in the stature. We like have a lot of
forest and a lot of tree canopy here, but a
lot of that is also being raised for private development

(40:10):
and gentrification, which are huge things that are happening right
now in Atlanta. So on a micro level, from this
macro conversation we're having, all of her work is very
relevant to things that are happening here in metro Atlanta. Absolutely. Uh,
that's one of my favorite parts about Atlanta. So we

(40:32):
will continue to see where that goes. We have some
more to talk about, but first we have one more
quick break for word from our sponsor and we're back.

(40:56):
Thank you sponsor. But in the meantime, thank you so
much Eaves for for coming on as always, thank you
for having me. Where can the listeners find you on
social media? On that is on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. UM,
I'm on this sand History Class, which is a different
podcast that was about days and history. UM. You can

(41:20):
also find me at Unpopular on all those same social
media platforms. Yeah, our eaves, Jeff Goo is my name,
and do whatever you want to do with that information
kind of things. Good point, but yeah, listeners should definitely

(41:41):
go check both of those out there. Amazing and if
you would like to contact us you can. Yes. Um
Our email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at iHeart media
dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom
Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You.
Thanks as always to our super produced Sir Andrew Howard,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You,

(42:05):
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