September 4, 2021 • 41 mins
Why are so many people drawn to cooking, crafts and lifestyles from a bygone era? How do Etsy, Pinterest and mommy blogs fuel new domesticity? Tune in to this classic episode as Cristen and Caroline interview with Emily Matchar on her book on the new domesticity movement
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't like from
the stuff. Would never told you production of I Heart Radio.
So Samantha, well, you recently did an episode I'm Blogging,
and you said you used to have a blog on
the side. I've never heard of Zenga. Yes, yes, yes,
(00:29):
and you said it was unfortunately or maybe fortunately defunct,
but you didn't say what was on there other than
vague prompts. As it was very angsty, it might not
have been politically correct. Well, I don't really know, because
there's really no telling what had written, but I do
remember some sad poems mh and thoughts. And then also
(00:53):
it was really really hard on into the Christian world,
so I'm sure there was a lot of religiou us
ideas and thought processes, but that's all I can remember.
Did you engage with the audience at all? Commenters? Of course,
so I was also very picky in general and cautious
about who knew what sight I had. I did have
(01:16):
some lookie lose cooking through and found me I did.
That happened a couple of times. I remember that, and
maybe hannicking like oh no, because all I had was
a user name, which makes no sense because it's just
like made up from my entire full name, so just
a bunch of letters put together essentially, and then yeah,
that's it. That's all I had there. And it was
(01:38):
public though, but if someone commented on it, typically they
were all very nice comments. I would respond, M, there's
a couple of I had conversations, but again, there were
a majority of the friends that I would see on
a dating basis, and we as a group all had
Sanga community. Oh did you ever regular update schedule or
(01:58):
was it just whenever for know? Yeah, and whenever I
don't like it? Mm hmmmm. Well, I believe I've only
posted to a blog once, and it was a blog
that was run by an organization I was a part
of when I was in college called i SEC, which
is kind of like an international travel blog, and I
(02:19):
published once like a guest post about when I had
gone to China, and it was on a base on Tumbler.
I believe I did have to design a website and
I can't remember where I hosted that, but that was
also like a final project I had to do with
one of my college classes. I will say we talked
about this in our blog episode where the similarities between
(02:39):
fan fiction and blogging. And I did post fan fiction,
and I did have a regular update schedule, and I
would if people reviewed, I would respond to the reviews
because I was so flattered. I was so terrified that
they were all going to being and they were almost
always nice, and I would respond. But it's a very
stressful experience, really is I feel that way about social
(03:00):
media today. I'm like, I see a lot of alerts like,
oh my god, what have I done? Yep, Yeah, I
am the exact same way, but it's almost always nice.
But you get those nerves. Um yeah, every time, for sure,
for sure. But since we did recently do kind of
an updated episode on a look at women and blogging,
(03:20):
we wanted to bring back this classic on the mommy
blog or mom blog in particular, So please enjoy Welcome
to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Stuff Works
dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen
(03:44):
and I'm Caroline and Caroline. Today we have a special
podcast episode because I got to chat with Emily Matcher,
who is the author of the upcoming book Homeward Bound
The New Cult of Domesticity, and it is coming out.
It's slated to come out in May, so right around
(04:06):
the corner. But you can check out her blogging over
at New New domesticity dot com. And the reason why
we wanted to talk to match her about new domesticity
is because it ties into a lot of things that
we talked about on the podcast and I feel like
a lot of interests that podcast listeners have. Yeah, she's
(04:29):
match is a really interesting woman. This whole idea of
new domesticity being something that a lot of women are
being attracted to. And there's this very interesting debate that
that we've kind of been keeping tabs on about is
this something that helps women or is this somehow sending
women back to the stone age and oppressing them. So
there's a lot of arguments on both sides. Yeah, and um,
(04:51):
in our chat with Emily Matcher, she'll give us more
details about what new domesticity is, but just for a
general idea we're talking of out the revival of things
like knitting and handcrafts. Etsy is a great online source
just for a glimpse of new domesticity and even more intensive,
(05:12):
time intensive things like backyard chicken keeping, canning, preserving. Uh,
really a return to I guess lost domestic arts that
were replaced by more convenient appliances or techniques or just
TV dinners, TV dinners, things like that, and she she
does talk about how there's this return um from what
(05:35):
our mothers and grandmothers were doing, which is maybe relying
on those TV dinners, maybe not cooking those homemade pies
or knitting sweaters as you know, as much as our
predecessors were. Yeah, and we first noticed Emily's work over
at Salon when we were researching our episode on Pinterest
and she she wrote about the why I Can't stop
(05:58):
reading Mormon housewife blogs and it's a great post so
where she talks about um, Mormon mommy bloggers and sort
of the this Pinterest perfect life it seems like a
lot of them are living, and how that ties into
new domesticity and her fascination with that in comparison to
how she lives her own day to day life in
(06:19):
a much less Pinterest perfect way, which I think you know,
you and I Caroline can probably both relate to very strongly. Um. So, so, yeah,
we chatted with Emily. She is living currently in China,
so we had an international conversation with her, and I
guess why don't we listen to what Emily had to
(06:41):
say about New Domesticity, her book that's coming out. What
New Domesticity is, how men play a role in this
stuff as well, and some other things. And uh so,
why don't we kick off my interview with Emily with
the question I asked her of what got her interested
in new domesticity and if she could offer some more
(07:04):
insight into what exactly that is. So, ladies and gents,
please enjoy our conversation with Emily Matcher. So New Domesticity
is just the title that I'm sort of throwing at
(07:24):
a variety of interrelated things, um, but generally speaking, the
sort of the resurgence of interest in old fashioned domestic stuff,
you know. And this is everything from the you know, knitting,
the crafting revival. You know, we've seen knitting and Etsy
and crocheting and all this stuff is hip again, you know, um,
(07:45):
and the foodie movement and people being really into food
and home cooking all the way through to sort of
neo homesteading, um, you know, people raising chickens in their
backyard and uh and wanting to get back to me
six and that whole thing. And so I sort of
look at it as part of you know, one larger
phenomenon that's what I'm calling new domesticity. UM. And yeah,
(08:08):
I got interested in it because as UM, as a
writer who writes a lot about about food and culture,
I kept meeting people who were like really into canning
jam you know. But it wasn't just it wasn't just
you know, a hobby. It was sort of part of
a lifestyle and UM. You know, I'd meet meet you know,
(08:30):
women that were into attachment parenting, who homeschooled their kids
and baked all their own bread and raised goats, and
and I began to see that this was sort of
it was a larger lifestyle movement, that these things were
sort of pieces of UM. And that's when I got
I got sort of curious about it as UM as
a bigger thing, you know, wondering where it came from
(08:52):
and what it meant. Well, you mentioned on the website
one of the blog posts when you you'd worked out
the working title for the book, and how it UM
is a nod to the Victorian era cult of domesticity,
which has, like those the four cardinal virtues of piety, purity, submission,
(09:12):
and domesticity. So I wanted to get your thoughts on
what might be the cardinal virtues of the cult of
New domesticity. I think the cardinal virtue UM would probably
be d I Y do it yourself UM, and MIS
takes a lot of forms. I think there's a there's
(09:35):
a real impetus in this movement to to do things yourself,
you know, MISS could be cooking from a scratch, or
selling your own clothes, or growing your own veggies, you know,
all the way through homeschooling your own children. It's very
much about sort of you know, going outside the system
and UM and and doing things yourself. So I would
(09:58):
say that's the the cardinal virtue. Although things like UM
you certainly see sort of an interest in purity when
it comes to food and things like that, which which
definitely have parallels with the nineteenth century cult of domesticity,
and and generally sort of the I think the idea,
even if it's not spoken, UM, that by doing this
(10:23):
stuff you are a better person, a better woman, a
better mother. Uh. Well, I think it's really interesting in
reading about UM sort of what is driving a lot
of this A lot of the resurgence for these UM
you know, sort of crafts from a slower time, and uh,
and you talk about how it's linked a lot of
(10:45):
times to a disfaction, dissatisfaction. Excuse me with you know,
the idea of you know, the nine to five world
sitting in a cubicle being a weekend warrior and uh
is it? Are we just looking back to, you know,
wanting a bygone era of a slower and even like
less convenient time, even though you know, the lifestyle that
(11:08):
we have now is supposed to be, um, you know,
faster and easier and and all of that. You know,
I think there's a real nostalgia for what people perceive
as a sort of simpler and more wholesome time. And
I think a lot of that has to do with, um,
you know, we live in a super high tech society,
and you know, just on a very basic level, um,
(11:28):
you know, when you work at a computer all day,
I think we have you know, humans have a pretty
you know, natural urge. We like to do things with
their hands, right, you know, And so I think when
you're when you're sort of separated from that, when you're
in an office, when you're you know, living in this
high tech world, people have a craving for for you know,
(11:49):
tactile connection. And so I think a lot of stuff,
like you know, crafting and cooking has to do with
people wanting to reclaim that connection, being be able to
work with their hands. Um. And then you know, people,
this is the We're living in a in a pretty
anxious era for a lot of reasons, you know, the
economy and the environment and political instability and war and
(12:13):
all these things that make people people anxious. I think
people crave what they perceive is a more simple and
stable time. You know, this idea that oh, you know,
back in the day when you know are in our
great grandparents era, you worked on the farm and you
made your own things, and you you know, didn't have
(12:33):
to go work this horrible nine job that you hate
that you could lose any day anyway. Um. And I
think that creates a sort of powerful urge to get
back to what people perceive as the basics. Um. Well,
can you talk a little bit about the role of
the Internet and being wired and how that relates to
(12:54):
new domesticity, because it seems like on the one hand, yet, um,
you know, our constant connection via the Internet and social
media and just the fast pace that comes along with
that maybe fuel some of that anxiety that you're talking
about that makes us want to you know, slow things
down and uh feel that nostalgia. But at the same
(13:16):
time too, it seems like the Internet is also facilitated
all of these communities and platforms things like Etsy. Uh.
So I was just wondering what what your take on
how how the Internet Internet relates to all of this
would be, Well, I think you you totally hit on it.
I think, um, the Internet both drives new dust domesticity,
(13:39):
and new domesticity is also a reaction against the Internet
culture to some degree. I definitely do not think that
new domesticity would exist at all without the Internet. I think, um,
you know, like you said, it has facilitated, um, the
revival of a lot of this stuff. You know, the
crafting movement really came out of, um, out of websites
(14:02):
dedicated to crafting. And now we have stuff like at
sea and um and Ravelry, which is a knitting website, UM,
and you know, Pinterest or people share crafts and ideas UM.
And then there's the whole world of blogs, you know,
and food blogs and people sharing recipes and these have
created like these real communities and I think really driven
(14:24):
interest and stuff like you know, do it yourself and
from scratch cooking and um and and and you know,
created these communities and created you know, a sort of
sense of of aspiration. If you look at these you know,
neo domestic blogs, they're so beautiful and you know, everything's
(14:44):
photographed so nicely, and you look at them, and even
if you're not at all like domestic or interested in
cooking or crafty, it's kind of hard not to look
at some of these you know, lifestyle blogs and go, oh,
you know, I want that. Um and uh and I
think yeah. On on the flip side of that, there's
(15:06):
just the fact of the Internet being this, you know,
seven technological invasion of your home that I think a
lot of people want to escape from when they're you know,
going back to basics. Like you know, when you're spending
your time doing something tactile like cooking or or knitting
or you know, growing veggies in your backyard, you're making
(15:29):
a deliberate choice to step away from Internet culture. Yeah,
do you think that? Um And this is just kind
of on a side note that because I feel like
the rise of the quote unquote mommy bloggers almost I
predated the popularity of Etsy and Ravelry and these other
like larger communities. And do you think that maybe mom
(15:51):
bloggers in a way sort of and having that platform, Uh,
I don't know, showed the value of housework in a
way that maybe it had been dismissed for a little
while is just you know, oh, you're just to stay
at home mom, But now you can actually see all
of these things that they're doing, this incredible food that
(16:13):
they're making and uh, their home designer however they're doing it.
If that makes sense, No, yeah, I think you you
totally hit it on the head. Um. I think there
has been a movement for for a while, and probably
a little bit predating the Internet. Um, you know, maybe
sort of starting in the nineties, to to reclaim you know,
(16:34):
old fashioned women's work, like um, like crafts. I think
there's a big crafting revival that started with sort of
the punk rock riot girl movement in the nineties, with
you know, women saying hey, like it's cool and punk
rock to do uh crocheting and make your own clothes
and stuff like that, and that sort of grew into
a whole movement to to reclaim the domestic, to reclaim
(16:56):
respect for roum for old fashioned women's work, which you know,
had been very denigrated over the years. If you look
at you know, like Bust magazine, is this you know,
sort of third wave feminist magazine that started um you know,
running these sort of kitchy pictures of housewives and you know,
how to cleaning articles like in the late nineties, early
(17:19):
two thousand's as sort of this big you know, this
this movement to um to sort of reclaim, reclaim women's
work as something of value. And I think the mom
blogging ended up being part a big part of that
because a lot of I think a lot of the
(17:42):
reason that women's work has been historically devalued is because
it's invisible. You don't you know, you don't know what
your neighbors dinner looks like. You don't see her folding
her laundry, you don't see any of that stuff. And
so I think that's one of the reasons it was
very hard to be a housewife was because you didn't
get any external validation. And especially you know, once women
(18:03):
started getting educations and started having experience in the workforce
and got used to the external validation of you know,
being in a workplace or getting grades in school. I
think a lot of people found it very hard to
not get that anymore. And I think mom blogs um
uh unintentionally ended up becoming this venue for people to
(18:25):
show off there um what they did in the home
and thereby gaining some some validation for it. You know,
like you might cook dinner every night and uh, you know,
maybe your husband and your kids say thank you, maybe
they don't. But if you photograph your dinner and you
put the recipe online, people are going to go, hey,
oh awesome, you know, great recipe, and you're going to
(18:48):
get You're going to get validation. And I think that's
actually this pretty like phenomenal important effective um of mom
blogs and lifestyle blogs because all of a sudden, you know,
this women's work that's been invisible for you know, since
the dawn of time, all of a sudden has this
(19:09):
very public platform. You know. Well, it's interesting, like there was.
It reminds me too of of a post that you
had on the website about um, whether or not we're
almost going overboard, like you know, I think you were
talking something about going on apartment therapy and wondering whether
or not you should like put curtains up. But then
(19:30):
you didn't even want to ask, because it's like, now
we're almost to the point where everything you know looks
so perfect online and we have these like aspirational blogs
that we look like look at and pinterest in all
of this. Um so, I wonder if are is there
a danger and especially in talking about this within the
framework of feminism, is there a danger in exalting this
(19:56):
quote unquote women's work too much to where we're back
in the same place we were where, you know, back
to something along the lines of the you know, the
Victorian cult of domesticity, where a woman's worth is found
in and what her home looks like. Well, that's exactly
exactly the problem. You know. On the one hand, of course,
(20:17):
you know, people should be validated for the work they do.
On the other hand, the sort of um, the all
the sharing of of domesticity online does create a sense
of competition and does there is a sense in which
it raises the bar on a on what it takes
(20:39):
to be a good um, a good housekeeper, good a
good mother, a good woman. You know, because before the internet,
like you know, the housework wasn't visible. You didn't know
what your neighbor's closet looked like. You didn't know what
your neighbor's dinner looks like. And now you can go online.
You can look at blogs. You can see, you know,
what the strangers are cooking and eating, and what their
(21:03):
kids are wearing, and the cute craft projects they did.
And you know, of course this isn't the full view
of their lives, you know, naturally, it's this completely edited,
mediated view of their life that's put on the blog
for public consumption. But I think people have a hard
time reading between the lines there, you know, because blogs
(21:25):
are supposed to be this very authentic, you know, very
personal medium, and there becomes we get this really you know,
uncomfortable gray area where um, you know a lot of
bloggers are sort of semi professionals taking sort of semi
professional pictures of their semi professional cooking and decorating, and
(21:46):
you know, regular people go, oh, you know, now I
feel bad about myself. Why doesn't my food look like that?
Why doesn't my living room look like that? Um? And
it does create a culture in which, you know, be
the whole. You know, thousands of women are deaning this
(22:06):
validation for being good housekeepers, which is sort of, in
my mind, uncomfortably close to the whole cult of domesticity.
You know, Um, people are gaining validation from having you know,
the cutest living rooms or the the nicest looking dinner.
So um. So Yeah. On the one hand, I think that,
you know, it's great that people can be validated for
(22:28):
the hard work they do in the home. On the
other hand, I do worry that the whole culture of
lifestyle blogs, you know, raises the bar for ordinary women
who spend a lot of time looking at semi professional
blogs and feeling bad about themselves and feeling like their
self worth is really tied up and in how well
they keep their home. Yeah, because it also seems to
(22:49):
add another wrinkle to the whole debate that about about
whether or not women can have it all. You know,
we be because for so long it's been something that's
more just you know, looking for career success in the
workplace and yes, childcare and managing all of that. But
(23:11):
now there's sort of a new, um, a new aspect
to it as well, and I'm just wondering, like, when,
you know, can we have the career success in the
corner office and also have our own canned jam that
we can bring into office parties, you know what I mean,
Like it seems like there's so there's so much now
(23:32):
Like it's a good thing that uh, women's work is
being validated in a lot of ways, like in terms
of the domestic sphere. But where does this square with
work outside of the home? Right right? Well? Um, you know,
I think one of the big problems is that you know,
in in New domesticity sort of as a movement, um,
(23:55):
a lot of the stuff gets sort of very moralized
because it's tied up with um, you know, questions of
consumerism and questions of environmentalism, and questions of what kind
of food is good and safe to eat? Right. So
you know it's easy enough when somebody is just knitting
for a hobby, but um, you know, you get it's
(24:16):
much more complicated than that. You get. Um, you know
a lot of talk about well, you know, you should
be cooking from scratch because that's the way, that's the
only way that it's healthy for your family. And you know,
you should be knowing your farmer and going to the
farmer's market. You should be buying organic and you should
be you know, growing your own veggies, and you know,
(24:40):
soaking your grains and doing all these things because it's
the right thing to do for your children's health, and
it's the right thing to do for the environment and
for your local community. And um, you know, oh you
should be you know, making your own cleaning solutions out
of vinegar because you know it's good for the environment.
And don't take lazy shortcuts because that's bad for the environment.
(25:00):
And oh, you know, if you go out and buy
things or higher you know, babysitters to go to the movies,
you know that sort of consumerists. I think, um, I
think there's this there's this huge sort of moralization of
the domestic realm, this idea that your domestic choices can
have these huge impacts on the world. Like of course
(25:23):
people are going to feel like they're never doing it right,
you know. Um, so I think that makes it. You know, women,
like you said, already have a hard enough time trying
to keep things together in terms of job and childcare.
And now there's also this sense that you know, well
you can't just take a shortcut by you know, buying
(25:45):
you know, pre made meals or dropping your kids off
at daycare, because that's somehow you know, immoral, wrong and
and and bad for your children, and bad for the world,
you know what I mean. Um, and that puts a
uge amount of pressure on women. UM. Well, I'm also
really curious about the people that you've met through this
(26:08):
new domesticity research and wondering. I mean, obviously there's the
cornerstone d I y ethic and UM, you know, the
embrace of going more natural and slower in a way. Uh,
but have you noticed certain hallmarks of people who are
really drawn and very invested in Um, these kinds of
(26:31):
of new domesticity, Look what they have in common with
each other? Yeah, if there are any like I don't know,
any certain types of personality traits I feel like, like,
for instance, like people that I know who are incredibly
crafty are just like very organized and very creative and
and things like that. So I was just wondering, Uh,
(26:52):
if you had noticed certain I don't know, shared traits
or anything like that. Well, I'll say that there's a
huge variety of people doing this, and obviously it's not
all women. And I did interview um for my for
my blogging from my book, UM, plenty of men, and
that there are people in different socio economic groups and
and different um sort of political beliefs too. You get
(27:13):
a lot of you know, sort of very conservative Christian
women embracing d I y and natural parenting and that
whole thing, um, as well as sort of your stereotypical
crunchy liberals. But I will say, um, I think I
think one of the thing is that a lot, though
not all of um of women that are very into
(27:34):
new domesticity have in common is that they are very smart,
generally educated, and really creative, but for one reason or
the other, have not connected with a career. And this
is this doesn't mean they don't have one, you know,
but they might not find it totally satisfying, or it
(27:55):
might be part time, or they might have you know,
left in after their children were born. UM. And I think,
you know, being creative and um and educated and engaged,
they find you know, engaging a new domesticity a way
of um, you know, a way of using their energies
(28:17):
and and using their creativity um in the absence of
a job or the absence of a really satisfying job.
You know. So if you're doing a lot of super
intensive domestic stuff all the time, you know, you're say
you're homeschooling your kids, or you're just, um, you have
a huge garden that you're in every day, or you're
(28:37):
sewing your own clothes, or you're you know, you're raising chickens.
That sort of becomes like a career in a sense
for some people, and even people who don't take it
that far. I think, you know, um, even just being
very invested in something like cooking from scratch takes a
lot of time and energy and creativity. UM that maybe
(28:58):
you're not using on the job job because you are
because you don't have a job, or because you um,
you know, you have a job that's not fully engaging
you for whatever reason. And I think this is even
for for younger women who don't have kids, and for
men and everybody. I think dissatisfaction with the job definitely
(29:19):
leads to, um, wanting to do more creative stuff. So
if you're sort of bored in your job, like lots
of us are, you know, especially with the recession and
people maybe not having their dream job, like, yeah, you
want to come home and you want to you know,
do something that you're engaged with and passionate about. And
that's where you know, raising your bees on the rooftop,
(29:39):
and you know, and crocheting, that's where that kind of
stuff comes in to still that to still that gap. Well,
speaking of raising bees on rooftops, it was very curious
about maybe some of the more extreme or just intriguing
examples of new domesticity, like you know, like someone washing
(30:00):
laundering their own clothes with you know, an old school washboard,
or grinding their own flower or anything like that. I
did not actually meet anyone who used an old fashioned washboard.
That would be so much work, oh my gosh, but
you know what, I'm sure somebody's doing it. I did
meet lots of people who you know, who hung their
clothes to dry. Um. But I met let's see, I
met a woman in Brooklyn who was raising rabbits and
(30:23):
chickens and bees in her Brooklyn backyard that was like,
you know, the size of a postage stamp. Um. I
met a woman who had been a web designer and
had decided to just go off grid on our own
when was living in like very rural up state New
York trying to raise sheep. Um. I met you know,
(30:45):
women that were very into natural mothering, who you know,
had six kids before they were thirty and we're homeschooling
all of them. Um. So yeah, and people who people
who were trying really hard to grow all their own food. Um,
some people who sewed all their families clothes. So yeah,
(31:07):
I mean you can you can see how a few,
know you are really into new domesticity is like an
entire lifestyle. Um, it's a it's quite time and energy consuming. Yeah,
I can help me imagine. Um. Well you also you
mentioned a few minutes ago that you also spoke to
some men about new domestics new domesticity, and I just
(31:30):
wanted to know where they fit into it, because you know,
it makes sense that a lot of the conversation is
framed around women, mothers who are very invested in this
kind of housekeeping and and crafting and stuff. But obviously
men are are getting in on this as well. So
what what are they doing in terms of new domesticity. Yeah,
(31:53):
I mean a lot of a lot of the same
things really, Um, you know, I mean women have historically
UM stronger and a complicated relationship with um, with the
domestic sphere, but that's that's changing. And a lot of men,
especially young men, are you know, are also interested in
in d I y domesticity. I mean tons of men
(32:15):
are you know, really interested in cooking and you know,
curing their own bacon and uh making stuff from scratch
and pickling and all that stuff in the kitchen. Um,
you know. I mean I think men are definitely behind
when it comes to uh, you know, traditional crafts um,
which has been very very female dominated over the years.
(32:35):
But plenty of guys are are into other d I
y type stuff. I mean, there are there are some
guys that are into knitting. I did interview u, um
a male quilster um and uh. But you know, guys
doing things like you know, fixing their own bikes and
other sorts of of do it yourself building things around
(32:58):
the house than guys who wanted to build their own
houses um and uh and yeah. When it comes to parenting,
I mean that the whole natural parenting movement does tend
to be very mother centric, but there are men I
talked to who were involved in and stuff like like
home schooling their kids um and yeah. And then the
(33:22):
whole home studying movement. UM, A lot of men are
into that and a lot of the people I talked to,
UM they would be couples and both partners would be
involved in the homesteading to some degree, which you know,
if you're going to be doing something as time consuming
is raising animals, you know, in a suburban backyard, it's
a good thing of both of you are are invested
in it. Is there anything that we didn't touch on
(33:44):
about new domesticity or anything related to that that you
would like our listeners to know about. I mean, I
guess I just think, um, new domesticity can mean a
lot of different different things and for some people, you know,
some people are just you know, maybe involved and you know,
they just happen to like to knit or craft and
(34:05):
it doesn't have any larger meaning than that. But I
think when you take all these things together, I think
it's definitely a movement to you know, to reclaim you know,
some slower ways of living and uh and live in
a more sustainable way. And it's a reaction to the
bad and you know, um economy and people dissatisfaction with
(34:28):
jobs and just sort of a general unhappiness with the
status quo. Um that's leading people to be interested in
everything from making their own clothes to growing their own
food to you know, homeschool and their kids. So I
think Um, it's a it's a lot of different things
that it means different things for different people. Yeah, it's
(34:49):
definitely interesting. It's it's very interesting to see how, like
you you had said, it touches like so many different
people with different political affiliation or might be religious motivations
or more secular motivations. It's just it's kind of fascinating
to see how it appeals to such a broad and
diverse group of people. Um. Yeah, Well, in my book,
(35:13):
I have a whole chapter on the I'm the sort
of bizarre bedfellows of new domesticity. How you get stuff
like you know, the Amish and you know, bearded Brooklyn
hipsters who are you know, swapping tips about you know,
seeds and growing tomatoes, and you get you know, very
(35:34):
very conservative religious Christian women that are into natural mothering
because it appeals to their sort of idea, you know,
of of you know, god given motherly instinct. And they're
doing things like home birthing and home schooling, um, cloth
diapering and that whole thing, just like the superliberal countrywomen
of Berkeley who are doing it for completely different reasons.
(35:56):
Um So I think I think that's really be fascinating
this sort of that, you know, red state and blue
state how would come together on the domestic front in
this way. So I'd like to go ahead and just
thank Emily so much for talking to us. It was
a really interesting interview. And I do think this whole
(36:17):
concept of new domesticity is fascinating just simply, I mean,
like taking all the rest of it out, just simply
for the fact that so many different types of people
subscribe to this philosophy of I'm going to make things
at home. I'm going to make things myself. I'm going
to you know, provide for my family and myself, uh
by making things with my own hands. Yeah. And it's
(36:39):
really fascinating to me too what what she hits on
in terms of how it's often fueled. It seems like
by a general angst over the pace of our day
to day life and needing to take time away from
the hustle and bustle of twenty one century living, to
(37:00):
to slow down and actually make things that we can
hold and that we can eat, and that we can
take pictures of and put on Pinterest. You know. That's
the funny part of it. It's that tension between wanting
to get away from it and yet the Internet fueling
it at the same time. So UM, I can't wait
to hear from folks out there who are knitters and
(37:22):
canners and cooks and chicken raizors New domesticity folks, I'm
sure you know who you are. And again, um, you
can find Emily Matcher's writing all over the Internet at
places like The Washington Post, Salon, Men's Journal, the BBC,
The Hairpin and other sites as well, and she also
(37:44):
blogs at New Domesticity dot com. And again, Emily Matcher's book,
which is coming out in May, is called Homeward Bound,
The New Cult of Domesticity. It's coming out from Simon
and Schuster, So keep an eye out for that. And
thanks so much to Emily. And for folks who want
to send us your thoughts on New Domesticity and what
(38:05):
you thought about what Emily had to say, you can
send us an email. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com
is our address. Here is a letter from jos Kristen.
She wrote in about our dieting and Feminism is episode
(38:25):
and was a little disappointed, oh man. She says she's
disappointed that neither of us mentioned the idea of health
at every size or h a e S well not
directly related to feminism. Health at Every Size is a
concept that many fat activists have been advocating. My understanding
of Health at Every Size is that it questions a
lot of commonly health belief surrounding obesity and health, such
(38:48):
as the supposed link between obesity and diabetes. Supporters of
h a e S advocate for eating a balanced diet
and exercising regardless of how much weight loss it may
or may not cause. Linda Bacon's book Help at Every Size,
The Surprising Truth about Your Weight is a good place
to start if you're new to the idea. There's quite
a lot to be said about h a e S
and perhaps worth doing an entire episode on. Yeah, fat
(39:11):
activism is um something that we do need to talk
about at some point, So thanks for the point, Jos. Yeah. Absolutely.
And I've got another email here in response to our
episode on whether dating is a feminist issue, and this
is from Kendra and she writes, I was appropriately enough
working out in the gym when I listened to your
podcast on dieting and feminism, and I got so excited
(39:33):
that I scooted my tush off the elliptical just to
give my opinion on the issue. She says, as a
recovering interrexic, I spent most of high school dieting myself
to a very unhealthy b M. I I was able
to break away from the disease in part by making
dieting a feminist issue in my own life. Every time
I saw a calorie count go above six hundred in
a day, I justified it by using the battle cry,
(39:56):
and I will take out the explutive here, screw the patriarchy.
A few years have passed, and I finally feel secure
enough with myself to be able to look at diet
and exercise a bit more objectively. While I still refuse
to diet for weight loss, I find that daily exercise
helps me in a number of ways beyond making me
fit into my skinny jeans. I feel more relaxed, to
(40:16):
have better sleep, and even have clearer skin when I
work out for even just thirty minutes a day. Besides,
it gives me a great opportunity to listen to folks
like you on a regular basis. So in summery, while
I tend to disapprove of women dieting just to get skinny,
because I worry about them slipping down the same rabbit
hole that I did. I think that women one and
all should always do whatever makes them feel like the
(40:36):
best version of themselves here here, indeed, so thank you
Kendra and John and everyone else who has written into us.
Moms Stuff at Discovery dot com is where you can
send your letters, or you can head over to Facebook
and start a conversation there and like us. While you're
at it, You can tweet us at Mom's Stuff podcast,
and you can also tumble with us on Tumbler Stuff
(40:58):
Mom Never Told You dot tumbler dot com. And again,
huge thanks to Emily Matcher for taking the time to
chat with us about New Domesticity and her new book,
Homeward Bound. Please check it out, and as always, if
you would like to get a little smarter this week,
you can head over to our website, it is how
stuff works dot com. For more on this and thousands
(41:24):
of other topics, visit how stuff Works dot com.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't like from
the stuff. Would never told you production of I Heart Radio.
So Samantha, well, you recently did an episode I'm Blogging,
and you said you used to have a blog on
the side. I've never heard of Zenga. Yes, yes, yes,
(00:29):
and you said it was unfortunately or maybe fortunately defunct,
but you didn't say what was on there other than
vague prompts. As it was very angsty, it might not
have been politically correct. Well, I don't really know, because
there's really no telling what had written, but I do
remember some sad poems mh and thoughts. And then also
(00:53):
it was really really hard on into the Christian world,
so I'm sure there was a lot of religiou us
ideas and thought processes, but that's all I can remember.
Did you engage with the audience at all? Commenters? Of course,
so I was also very picky in general and cautious
about who knew what sight I had. I did have
(01:16):
some lookie lose cooking through and found me I did.
That happened a couple of times. I remember that, and
maybe hannicking like oh no, because all I had was
a user name, which makes no sense because it's just
like made up from my entire full name, so just
a bunch of letters put together essentially, and then yeah,
that's it. That's all I had there. And it was
(01:38):
public though, but if someone commented on it, typically they
were all very nice comments. I would respond, M, there's
a couple of I had conversations, but again, there were
a majority of the friends that I would see on
a dating basis, and we as a group all had
Sanga community. Oh did you ever regular update schedule or
(01:58):
was it just whenever for know? Yeah, and whenever I
don't like it? Mm hmmmm. Well, I believe I've only
posted to a blog once, and it was a blog
that was run by an organization I was a part
of when I was in college called i SEC, which
is kind of like an international travel blog, and I
(02:19):
published once like a guest post about when I had
gone to China, and it was on a base on Tumbler.
I believe I did have to design a website and
I can't remember where I hosted that, but that was
also like a final project I had to do with
one of my college classes. I will say we talked
about this in our blog episode where the similarities between
(02:39):
fan fiction and blogging. And I did post fan fiction,
and I did have a regular update schedule, and I
would if people reviewed, I would respond to the reviews
because I was so flattered. I was so terrified that
they were all going to being and they were almost
always nice, and I would respond. But it's a very
stressful experience, really is I feel that way about social
(03:00):
media today. I'm like, I see a lot of alerts like,
oh my god, what have I done? Yep, Yeah, I
am the exact same way, but it's almost always nice.
But you get those nerves. Um yeah, every time, for sure,
for sure. But since we did recently do kind of
an updated episode on a look at women and blogging,
(03:20):
we wanted to bring back this classic on the mommy
blog or mom blog in particular, So please enjoy Welcome
to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Stuff Works
dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen
(03:44):
and I'm Caroline and Caroline. Today we have a special
podcast episode because I got to chat with Emily Matcher,
who is the author of the upcoming book Homeward Bound
The New Cult of Domesticity, and it is coming out.
It's slated to come out in May, so right around
(04:06):
the corner. But you can check out her blogging over
at New New domesticity dot com. And the reason why
we wanted to talk to match her about new domesticity
is because it ties into a lot of things that
we talked about on the podcast and I feel like
a lot of interests that podcast listeners have. Yeah, she's
(04:29):
match is a really interesting woman. This whole idea of
new domesticity being something that a lot of women are
being attracted to. And there's this very interesting debate that
that we've kind of been keeping tabs on about is
this something that helps women or is this somehow sending
women back to the stone age and oppressing them. So
there's a lot of arguments on both sides. Yeah, and um,
(04:51):
in our chat with Emily Matcher, she'll give us more
details about what new domesticity is, but just for a
general idea we're talking of out the revival of things
like knitting and handcrafts. Etsy is a great online source
just for a glimpse of new domesticity and even more intensive,
(05:12):
time intensive things like backyard chicken keeping, canning, preserving. Uh,
really a return to I guess lost domestic arts that
were replaced by more convenient appliances or techniques or just
TV dinners, TV dinners, things like that, and she she
does talk about how there's this return um from what
(05:35):
our mothers and grandmothers were doing, which is maybe relying
on those TV dinners, maybe not cooking those homemade pies
or knitting sweaters as you know, as much as our
predecessors were. Yeah, and we first noticed Emily's work over
at Salon when we were researching our episode on Pinterest
and she she wrote about the why I Can't stop
(05:58):
reading Mormon housewife blogs and it's a great post so
where she talks about um, Mormon mommy bloggers and sort
of the this Pinterest perfect life it seems like a
lot of them are living, and how that ties into
new domesticity and her fascination with that in comparison to
how she lives her own day to day life in
(06:19):
a much less Pinterest perfect way, which I think you know,
you and I Caroline can probably both relate to very strongly. Um. So, so, yeah,
we chatted with Emily. She is living currently in China,
so we had an international conversation with her, and I
guess why don't we listen to what Emily had to
(06:41):
say about New Domesticity, her book that's coming out. What
New Domesticity is, how men play a role in this
stuff as well, and some other things. And uh so,
why don't we kick off my interview with Emily with
the question I asked her of what got her interested
in new domesticity and if she could offer some more
(07:04):
insight into what exactly that is. So, ladies and gents,
please enjoy our conversation with Emily Matcher. So New Domesticity
is just the title that I'm sort of throwing at
(07:24):
a variety of interrelated things, um, but generally speaking, the
sort of the resurgence of interest in old fashioned domestic stuff,
you know. And this is everything from the you know, knitting,
the crafting revival. You know, we've seen knitting and Etsy
and crocheting and all this stuff is hip again, you know, um,
(07:45):
and the foodie movement and people being really into food
and home cooking all the way through to sort of
neo homesteading, um, you know, people raising chickens in their
backyard and uh and wanting to get back to me
six and that whole thing. And so I sort of
look at it as part of you know, one larger
phenomenon that's what I'm calling new domesticity. UM. And yeah,
(08:08):
I got interested in it because as UM, as a
writer who writes a lot about about food and culture,
I kept meeting people who were like really into canning
jam you know. But it wasn't just it wasn't just
you know, a hobby. It was sort of part of
a lifestyle and UM. You know, I'd meet meet you know,
(08:30):
women that were into attachment parenting, who homeschooled their kids
and baked all their own bread and raised goats, and
and I began to see that this was sort of
it was a larger lifestyle movement, that these things were
sort of pieces of UM. And that's when I got
I got sort of curious about it as UM as
a bigger thing, you know, wondering where it came from
(08:52):
and what it meant. Well, you mentioned on the website
one of the blog posts when you you'd worked out
the working title for the book, and how it UM
is a nod to the Victorian era cult of domesticity,
which has, like those the four cardinal virtues of piety, purity, submission,
(09:12):
and domesticity. So I wanted to get your thoughts on
what might be the cardinal virtues of the cult of
New domesticity. I think the cardinal virtue UM would probably
be d I Y do it yourself UM, and MIS
takes a lot of forms. I think there's a there's
(09:35):
a real impetus in this movement to to do things yourself,
you know, MISS could be cooking from a scratch, or
selling your own clothes, or growing your own veggies, you know,
all the way through homeschooling your own children. It's very
much about sort of you know, going outside the system
and UM and and doing things yourself. So I would
(09:58):
say that's the the cardinal virtue. Although things like UM
you certainly see sort of an interest in purity when
it comes to food and things like that, which which
definitely have parallels with the nineteenth century cult of domesticity,
and and generally sort of the I think the idea,
even if it's not spoken, UM, that by doing this
(10:23):
stuff you are a better person, a better woman, a
better mother. Uh. Well, I think it's really interesting in
reading about UM sort of what is driving a lot
of this A lot of the resurgence for these UM
you know, sort of crafts from a slower time, and uh,
and you talk about how it's linked a lot of
(10:45):
times to a disfaction, dissatisfaction. Excuse me with you know,
the idea of you know, the nine to five world
sitting in a cubicle being a weekend warrior and uh
is it? Are we just looking back to, you know,
wanting a bygone era of a slower and even like
less convenient time, even though you know, the lifestyle that
(11:08):
we have now is supposed to be, um, you know,
faster and easier and and all of that. You know,
I think there's a real nostalgia for what people perceive
as a sort of simpler and more wholesome time. And
I think a lot of that has to do with, um,
you know, we live in a super high tech society,
and you know, just on a very basic level, um,
(11:28):
you know, when you work at a computer all day,
I think we have you know, humans have a pretty
you know, natural urge. We like to do things with
their hands, right, you know, And so I think when
you're when you're sort of separated from that, when you're
in an office, when you're you know, living in this
high tech world, people have a craving for for you know,
(11:49):
tactile connection. And so I think a lot of stuff,
like you know, crafting and cooking has to do with
people wanting to reclaim that connection, being be able to
work with their hands. Um. And then you know, people,
this is the We're living in a in a pretty
anxious era for a lot of reasons, you know, the
economy and the environment and political instability and war and
(12:13):
all these things that make people people anxious. I think
people crave what they perceive is a more simple and
stable time. You know, this idea that oh, you know,
back in the day when you know are in our
great grandparents era, you worked on the farm and you
made your own things, and you you know, didn't have
(12:33):
to go work this horrible nine job that you hate
that you could lose any day anyway. Um. And I
think that creates a sort of powerful urge to get
back to what people perceive as the basics. Um. Well,
can you talk a little bit about the role of
the Internet and being wired and how that relates to
(12:54):
new domesticity, because it seems like on the one hand, yet, um,
you know, our constant connection via the Internet and social
media and just the fast pace that comes along with
that maybe fuel some of that anxiety that you're talking
about that makes us want to you know, slow things
down and uh feel that nostalgia. But at the same
(13:16):
time too, it seems like the Internet is also facilitated
all of these communities and platforms things like Etsy. Uh.
So I was just wondering what what your take on
how how the Internet Internet relates to all of this
would be, Well, I think you you totally hit on it.
I think, um, the Internet both drives new dust domesticity,
(13:39):
and new domesticity is also a reaction against the Internet
culture to some degree. I definitely do not think that
new domesticity would exist at all without the Internet. I think, um,
you know, like you said, it has facilitated, um, the
revival of a lot of this stuff. You know, the
crafting movement really came out of, um, out of websites
(14:02):
dedicated to crafting. And now we have stuff like at
sea and um and Ravelry, which is a knitting website, UM,
and you know, Pinterest or people share crafts and ideas UM.
And then there's the whole world of blogs, you know,
and food blogs and people sharing recipes and these have
created like these real communities and I think really driven
(14:24):
interest and stuff like you know, do it yourself and
from scratch cooking and um and and and you know,
created these communities and created you know, a sort of
sense of of aspiration. If you look at these you know,
neo domestic blogs, they're so beautiful and you know, everything's
(14:44):
photographed so nicely, and you look at them, and even
if you're not at all like domestic or interested in
cooking or crafty, it's kind of hard not to look
at some of these you know, lifestyle blogs and go, oh,
you know, I want that. Um and uh and I
think yeah. On on the flip side of that, there's
(15:06):
just the fact of the Internet being this, you know,
seven technological invasion of your home that I think a
lot of people want to escape from when they're you know,
going back to basics. Like you know, when you're spending
your time doing something tactile like cooking or or knitting
or you know, growing veggies in your backyard, you're making
(15:29):
a deliberate choice to step away from Internet culture. Yeah,
do you think that? Um And this is just kind
of on a side note that because I feel like
the rise of the quote unquote mommy bloggers almost I
predated the popularity of Etsy and Ravelry and these other
like larger communities. And do you think that maybe mom
(15:51):
bloggers in a way sort of and having that platform, Uh,
I don't know, showed the value of housework in a
way that maybe it had been dismissed for a little
while is just you know, oh, you're just to stay
at home mom, But now you can actually see all
of these things that they're doing, this incredible food that
(16:13):
they're making and uh, their home designer however they're doing it.
If that makes sense, No, yeah, I think you you
totally hit it on the head. Um. I think there
has been a movement for for a while, and probably
a little bit predating the Internet. Um, you know, maybe
sort of starting in the nineties, to to reclaim you know,
(16:34):
old fashioned women's work, like um, like crafts. I think
there's a big crafting revival that started with sort of
the punk rock riot girl movement in the nineties, with
you know, women saying hey, like it's cool and punk
rock to do uh crocheting and make your own clothes
and stuff like that, and that sort of grew into
a whole movement to to reclaim the domestic, to reclaim
(16:56):
respect for roum for old fashioned women's work, which you know,
had been very denigrated over the years. If you look
at you know, like Bust magazine, is this you know,
sort of third wave feminist magazine that started um you know,
running these sort of kitchy pictures of housewives and you know,
how to cleaning articles like in the late nineties, early
(17:19):
two thousand's as sort of this big you know, this
this movement to um to sort of reclaim, reclaim women's
work as something of value. And I think the mom
blogging ended up being part a big part of that
because a lot of I think a lot of the
(17:42):
reason that women's work has been historically devalued is because
it's invisible. You don't you know, you don't know what
your neighbors dinner looks like. You don't see her folding
her laundry, you don't see any of that stuff. And
so I think that's one of the reasons it was
very hard to be a housewife was because you didn't
get any external validation. And especially you know, once women
(18:03):
started getting educations and started having experience in the workforce
and got used to the external validation of you know,
being in a workplace or getting grades in school. I
think a lot of people found it very hard to
not get that anymore. And I think mom blogs um
uh unintentionally ended up becoming this venue for people to
(18:25):
show off there um what they did in the home
and thereby gaining some some validation for it. You know,
like you might cook dinner every night and uh, you know,
maybe your husband and your kids say thank you, maybe
they don't. But if you photograph your dinner and you
put the recipe online, people are going to go, hey,
oh awesome, you know, great recipe, and you're going to
(18:48):
get You're going to get validation. And I think that's
actually this pretty like phenomenal important effective um of mom
blogs and lifestyle blogs because all of a sudden, you know,
this women's work that's been invisible for you know, since
the dawn of time, all of a sudden has this
(19:09):
very public platform. You know. Well, it's interesting, like there was.
It reminds me too of of a post that you
had on the website about um, whether or not we're
almost going overboard, like you know, I think you were
talking something about going on apartment therapy and wondering whether
or not you should like put curtains up. But then
(19:30):
you didn't even want to ask, because it's like, now
we're almost to the point where everything you know looks
so perfect online and we have these like aspirational blogs
that we look like look at and pinterest in all
of this. Um so, I wonder if are is there
a danger and especially in talking about this within the
framework of feminism, is there a danger in exalting this
(19:56):
quote unquote women's work too much to where we're back
in the same place we were where, you know, back
to something along the lines of the you know, the
Victorian cult of domesticity, where a woman's worth is found
in and what her home looks like. Well, that's exactly
exactly the problem. You know. On the one hand, of course,
(20:17):
you know, people should be validated for the work they do.
On the other hand, the sort of um, the all
the sharing of of domesticity online does create a sense
of competition and does there is a sense in which
it raises the bar on a on what it takes
(20:39):
to be a good um, a good housekeeper, good a
good mother, a good woman. You know, because before the internet,
like you know, the housework wasn't visible. You didn't know
what your neighbor's closet looked like. You didn't know what
your neighbor's dinner looks like. And now you can go online.
You can look at blogs. You can see, you know,
what the strangers are cooking and eating, and what their
(21:03):
kids are wearing, and the cute craft projects they did.
And you know, of course this isn't the full view
of their lives, you know, naturally, it's this completely edited,
mediated view of their life that's put on the blog
for public consumption. But I think people have a hard
time reading between the lines there, you know, because blogs
(21:25):
are supposed to be this very authentic, you know, very
personal medium, and there becomes we get this really you know,
uncomfortable gray area where um, you know a lot of
bloggers are sort of semi professionals taking sort of semi
professional pictures of their semi professional cooking and decorating, and
(21:46):
you know, regular people go, oh, you know, now I
feel bad about myself. Why doesn't my food look like that?
Why doesn't my living room look like that? Um? And
it does create a culture in which, you know, be
the whole. You know, thousands of women are deaning this
(22:06):
validation for being good housekeepers, which is sort of, in
my mind, uncomfortably close to the whole cult of domesticity.
You know, Um, people are gaining validation from having you know,
the cutest living rooms or the the nicest looking dinner.
So um. So Yeah. On the one hand, I think that,
you know, it's great that people can be validated for
(22:28):
the hard work they do in the home. On the
other hand, I do worry that the whole culture of
lifestyle blogs, you know, raises the bar for ordinary women
who spend a lot of time looking at semi professional
blogs and feeling bad about themselves and feeling like their
self worth is really tied up and in how well
they keep their home. Yeah, because it also seems to
(22:49):
add another wrinkle to the whole debate that about about
whether or not women can have it all. You know,
we be because for so long it's been something that's
more just you know, looking for career success in the
workplace and yes, childcare and managing all of that. But
(23:11):
now there's sort of a new, um, a new aspect
to it as well, and I'm just wondering, like, when,
you know, can we have the career success in the
corner office and also have our own canned jam that
we can bring into office parties, you know what I mean,
Like it seems like there's so there's so much now
(23:32):
Like it's a good thing that uh, women's work is
being validated in a lot of ways, like in terms
of the domestic sphere. But where does this square with
work outside of the home? Right right? Well? Um, you know,
I think one of the big problems is that you know,
in in New domesticity sort of as a movement, um,
(23:55):
a lot of the stuff gets sort of very moralized
because it's tied up with um, you know, questions of
consumerism and questions of environmentalism, and questions of what kind
of food is good and safe to eat? Right. So
you know it's easy enough when somebody is just knitting
for a hobby, but um, you know, you get it's
(24:16):
much more complicated than that. You get. Um, you know
a lot of talk about well, you know, you should
be cooking from scratch because that's the way, that's the
only way that it's healthy for your family. And you know,
you should be knowing your farmer and going to the
farmer's market. You should be buying organic and you should
be you know, growing your own veggies, and you know,
(24:40):
soaking your grains and doing all these things because it's
the right thing to do for your children's health, and
it's the right thing to do for the environment and
for your local community. And um, you know, oh you
should be you know, making your own cleaning solutions out
of vinegar because you know it's good for the environment.
And don't take lazy shortcuts because that's bad for the environment.
(25:00):
And oh, you know, if you go out and buy
things or higher you know, babysitters to go to the movies,
you know that sort of consumerists. I think, um, I
think there's this there's this huge sort of moralization of
the domestic realm, this idea that your domestic choices can
have these huge impacts on the world. Like of course
(25:23):
people are going to feel like they're never doing it right,
you know. Um, so I think that makes it. You know, women,
like you said, already have a hard enough time trying
to keep things together in terms of job and childcare.
And now there's also this sense that you know, well
you can't just take a shortcut by you know, buying
(25:45):
you know, pre made meals or dropping your kids off
at daycare, because that's somehow you know, immoral, wrong and
and and bad for your children, and bad for the world,
you know what I mean. Um, and that puts a
uge amount of pressure on women. UM. Well, I'm also
really curious about the people that you've met through this
(26:08):
new domesticity research and wondering. I mean, obviously there's the
cornerstone d I y ethic and UM, you know, the
embrace of going more natural and slower in a way. Uh,
but have you noticed certain hallmarks of people who are
really drawn and very invested in Um, these kinds of
(26:31):
of new domesticity, Look what they have in common with
each other? Yeah, if there are any like I don't know,
any certain types of personality traits I feel like, like,
for instance, like people that I know who are incredibly
crafty are just like very organized and very creative and
and things like that. So I was just wondering, Uh,
(26:52):
if you had noticed certain I don't know, shared traits
or anything like that. Well, I'll say that there's a
huge variety of people doing this, and obviously it's not
all women. And I did interview um for my for
my blogging from my book, UM, plenty of men, and
that there are people in different socio economic groups and
and different um sort of political beliefs too. You get
(27:13):
a lot of you know, sort of very conservative Christian
women embracing d I y and natural parenting and that
whole thing, um, as well as sort of your stereotypical
crunchy liberals. But I will say, um, I think I
think one of the thing is that a lot, though
not all of um of women that are very into
(27:34):
new domesticity have in common is that they are very smart,
generally educated, and really creative, but for one reason or
the other, have not connected with a career. And this
is this doesn't mean they don't have one, you know,
but they might not find it totally satisfying, or it
(27:55):
might be part time, or they might have you know,
left in after their children were born. UM. And I think,
you know, being creative and um and educated and engaged,
they find you know, engaging a new domesticity a way
of um, you know, a way of using their energies
(28:17):
and and using their creativity um in the absence of
a job or the absence of a really satisfying job.
You know. So if you're doing a lot of super
intensive domestic stuff all the time, you know, you're say
you're homeschooling your kids, or you're just, um, you have
a huge garden that you're in every day, or you're
(28:37):
sewing your own clothes, or you're you know, you're raising chickens.
That sort of becomes like a career in a sense
for some people, and even people who don't take it
that far. I think, you know, um, even just being
very invested in something like cooking from scratch takes a
lot of time and energy and creativity. UM that maybe
(28:58):
you're not using on the job job because you are
because you don't have a job, or because you um,
you know, you have a job that's not fully engaging
you for whatever reason. And I think this is even
for for younger women who don't have kids, and for
men and everybody. I think dissatisfaction with the job definitely
(29:19):
leads to, um, wanting to do more creative stuff. So
if you're sort of bored in your job, like lots
of us are, you know, especially with the recession and
people maybe not having their dream job, like, yeah, you
want to come home and you want to you know,
do something that you're engaged with and passionate about. And
that's where you know, raising your bees on the rooftop,
(29:39):
and you know, and crocheting, that's where that kind of
stuff comes in to still that to still that gap. Well,
speaking of raising bees on rooftops, it was very curious
about maybe some of the more extreme or just intriguing
examples of new domesticity, like you know, like someone washing
(30:00):
laundering their own clothes with you know, an old school washboard,
or grinding their own flower or anything like that. I
did not actually meet anyone who used an old fashioned washboard.
That would be so much work, oh my gosh, but
you know what, I'm sure somebody's doing it. I did
meet lots of people who you know, who hung their
clothes to dry. Um. But I met let's see, I
met a woman in Brooklyn who was raising rabbits and
(30:23):
chickens and bees in her Brooklyn backyard that was like,
you know, the size of a postage stamp. Um. I
met a woman who had been a web designer and
had decided to just go off grid on our own
when was living in like very rural up state New
York trying to raise sheep. Um. I met you know,
(30:45):
women that were very into natural mothering, who you know,
had six kids before they were thirty and we're homeschooling
all of them. Um. So yeah, and people who people
who were trying really hard to grow all their own food. Um,
some people who sewed all their families clothes. So yeah,
(31:07):
I mean you can you can see how a few,
know you are really into new domesticity is like an
entire lifestyle. Um, it's a it's quite time and energy consuming. Yeah,
I can help me imagine. Um. Well you also you
mentioned a few minutes ago that you also spoke to
some men about new domestics new domesticity, and I just
(31:30):
wanted to know where they fit into it, because you know,
it makes sense that a lot of the conversation is
framed around women, mothers who are very invested in this
kind of housekeeping and and crafting and stuff. But obviously
men are are getting in on this as well. So
what what are they doing in terms of new domesticity. Yeah,
(31:53):
I mean a lot of a lot of the same
things really, Um, you know, I mean women have historically
UM stronger and a complicated relationship with um, with the
domestic sphere, but that's that's changing. And a lot of men,
especially young men, are you know, are also interested in
in d I y domesticity. I mean tons of men
(32:15):
are you know, really interested in cooking and you know,
curing their own bacon and uh making stuff from scratch
and pickling and all that stuff in the kitchen. Um,
you know. I mean I think men are definitely behind
when it comes to uh, you know, traditional crafts um,
which has been very very female dominated over the years.
(32:35):
But plenty of guys are are into other d I
y type stuff. I mean, there are there are some
guys that are into knitting. I did interview u, um
a male quilster um and uh. But you know, guys
doing things like you know, fixing their own bikes and
other sorts of of do it yourself building things around
(32:58):
the house than guys who wanted to build their own
houses um and uh and yeah. When it comes to parenting,
I mean that the whole natural parenting movement does tend
to be very mother centric, but there are men I
talked to who were involved in and stuff like like
home schooling their kids um and yeah. And then the
(33:22):
whole home studying movement. UM, A lot of men are
into that and a lot of the people I talked to,
UM they would be couples and both partners would be
involved in the homesteading to some degree, which you know,
if you're going to be doing something as time consuming
is raising animals, you know, in a suburban backyard, it's
a good thing of both of you are are invested
in it. Is there anything that we didn't touch on
(33:44):
about new domesticity or anything related to that that you
would like our listeners to know about. I mean, I
guess I just think, um, new domesticity can mean a
lot of different different things and for some people, you know,
some people are just you know, maybe involved and you know,
they just happen to like to knit or craft and
(34:05):
it doesn't have any larger meaning than that. But I
think when you take all these things together, I think
it's definitely a movement to you know, to reclaim you know,
some slower ways of living and uh and live in
a more sustainable way. And it's a reaction to the
bad and you know, um economy and people dissatisfaction with
(34:28):
jobs and just sort of a general unhappiness with the
status quo. Um that's leading people to be interested in
everything from making their own clothes to growing their own
food to you know, homeschool and their kids. So I
think Um, it's a it's a lot of different things
that it means different things for different people. Yeah, it's
(34:49):
definitely interesting. It's it's very interesting to see how, like
you you had said, it touches like so many different
people with different political affiliation or might be religious motivations
or more secular motivations. It's just it's kind of fascinating
to see how it appeals to such a broad and
diverse group of people. Um. Yeah, Well, in my book,
(35:13):
I have a whole chapter on the I'm the sort
of bizarre bedfellows of new domesticity. How you get stuff
like you know, the Amish and you know, bearded Brooklyn
hipsters who are you know, swapping tips about you know,
seeds and growing tomatoes, and you get you know, very
(35:34):
very conservative religious Christian women that are into natural mothering
because it appeals to their sort of idea, you know,
of of you know, god given motherly instinct. And they're
doing things like home birthing and home schooling, um, cloth
diapering and that whole thing, just like the superliberal countrywomen
of Berkeley who are doing it for completely different reasons.
(35:56):
Um So I think I think that's really be fascinating
this sort of that, you know, red state and blue
state how would come together on the domestic front in
this way. So I'd like to go ahead and just
thank Emily so much for talking to us. It was
a really interesting interview. And I do think this whole
(36:17):
concept of new domesticity is fascinating just simply, I mean,
like taking all the rest of it out, just simply
for the fact that so many different types of people
subscribe to this philosophy of I'm going to make things
at home. I'm going to make things myself. I'm going
to you know, provide for my family and myself, uh
by making things with my own hands. Yeah. And it's
(36:39):
really fascinating to me too what what she hits on
in terms of how it's often fueled. It seems like
by a general angst over the pace of our day
to day life and needing to take time away from
the hustle and bustle of twenty one century living, to
(37:00):
to slow down and actually make things that we can
hold and that we can eat, and that we can
take pictures of and put on Pinterest. You know. That's
the funny part of it. It's that tension between wanting
to get away from it and yet the Internet fueling
it at the same time. So UM, I can't wait
to hear from folks out there who are knitters and
(37:22):
canners and cooks and chicken raizors New domesticity folks, I'm
sure you know who you are. And again, um, you
can find Emily Matcher's writing all over the Internet at
places like The Washington Post, Salon, Men's Journal, the BBC,
The Hairpin and other sites as well, and she also
(37:44):
blogs at New Domesticity dot com. And again, Emily Matcher's book,
which is coming out in May, is called Homeward Bound,
The New Cult of Domesticity. It's coming out from Simon
and Schuster, So keep an eye out for that. And
thanks so much to Emily. And for folks who want
to send us your thoughts on New Domesticity and what
(38:05):
you thought about what Emily had to say, you can
send us an email. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com
is our address. Here is a letter from jos Kristen.
She wrote in about our dieting and Feminism is episode
(38:25):
and was a little disappointed, oh man. She says she's
disappointed that neither of us mentioned the idea of health
at every size or h a e S well not
directly related to feminism. Health at Every Size is a
concept that many fat activists have been advocating. My understanding
of Health at Every Size is that it questions a
lot of commonly health belief surrounding obesity and health, such
(38:48):
as the supposed link between obesity and diabetes. Supporters of
h a e S advocate for eating a balanced diet
and exercising regardless of how much weight loss it may
or may not cause. Linda Bacon's book Help at Every Size,
The Surprising Truth about Your Weight is a good place
to start if you're new to the idea. There's quite
a lot to be said about h a e S
and perhaps worth doing an entire episode on. Yeah, fat
(39:11):
activism is um something that we do need to talk
about at some point, So thanks for the point, Jos. Yeah. Absolutely.
And I've got another email here in response to our
episode on whether dating is a feminist issue, and this
is from Kendra and she writes, I was appropriately enough
working out in the gym when I listened to your
podcast on dieting and feminism, and I got so excited
(39:33):
that I scooted my tush off the elliptical just to
give my opinion on the issue. She says, as a
recovering interrexic, I spent most of high school dieting myself
to a very unhealthy b M. I I was able
to break away from the disease in part by making
dieting a feminist issue in my own life. Every time
I saw a calorie count go above six hundred in
a day, I justified it by using the battle cry,
(39:56):
and I will take out the explutive here, screw the patriarchy.
A few years have passed, and I finally feel secure
enough with myself to be able to look at diet
and exercise a bit more objectively. While I still refuse
to diet for weight loss, I find that daily exercise
helps me in a number of ways beyond making me
fit into my skinny jeans. I feel more relaxed, to
(40:16):
have better sleep, and even have clearer skin when I
work out for even just thirty minutes a day. Besides,
it gives me a great opportunity to listen to folks
like you on a regular basis. So in summery, while
I tend to disapprove of women dieting just to get skinny,
because I worry about them slipping down the same rabbit
hole that I did. I think that women one and
all should always do whatever makes them feel like the
(40:36):
best version of themselves here here, indeed, so thank you
Kendra and John and everyone else who has written into us.
Moms Stuff at Discovery dot com is where you can
send your letters, or you can head over to Facebook
and start a conversation there and like us. While you're
at it, You can tweet us at Mom's Stuff podcast,
and you can also tumble with us on Tumbler Stuff
(40:58):
Mom Never Told You dot tumbler dot com. And again,
huge thanks to Emily Matcher for taking the time to
chat with us about New Domesticity and her new book,
Homeward Bound. Please check it out, and as always, if
you would like to get a little smarter this week,
you can head over to our website, it is how
stuff works dot com. For more on this and thousands
(41:24):
of other topics, visit how stuff Works dot com.
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