October 27, 2018 • 35 mins
Halloween 'tis the season for creative costumes, but why do so many people wear racist, offensive outfits? Cristen and Caroline discuss cultural appropriation and how it impacts broader society not just during Halloween season.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff Mom
never told you. Alright, So Halloween is upon us, which
means candy Jack Lanard's and costumes and unfortunately, offensive costumes.
(00:29):
This is something that comes up every year, and with
all of the news around us Senator Elizabeth Warren's DNA
test showing she had a Native American ancestors somewhere along
the line, and the problematic news coverage around to that.
Another related news item Megan Kelly's comments on the NBC
Today Show suggesting blackface is acceptable on Halloween. Her comments
(00:54):
were swiftly and pretty much universally condemned, and her show
was cance old. So we present to you this handy
guide what not to wear on Halloween. Welcome to Stuff
Mom Never told You from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello,
(01:18):
and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline,
and this kicks off one of two Halloween themed episodes
that we're doing this year. And in this installment, we're
going to talk about costumes. But we're not going to
talk about sexy costumes. Now, we're going to talk about
racist costumes people, Yeah, which sometimes take a turn for
(01:40):
the sexy and racist costumes if you can. Yeah, if
you can get both of those and one, you've become
a terrible Halloween costumes stereotype. Yes, and this is a
listener request that came from Facebook and it got a
lot of likes, so we said, hey, let's talk about
this costume issue, because Caroline, I remember distinctly when I
(02:03):
was in college, it was Halloween and you know, everybody
was out and I saw a guy dressed up as
a member of the Taliban and he was in brown
face and it was appalling. I mean, like, obviously he
was trying to make a terrible nine eleven joke and
(02:24):
being horribly racist about it. And that was my first
direct experience with the racist Halloween costume. Now, I'm I'm
usually myself. I'm usually some sort of female cartoon character.
I've I've been uh, April O'Neil, and I've been Leela
(02:45):
from Futurama. But no, I can't say I've ever been
something like a member of a particular culture. That's a
really good thing because it happens a lot, and it's
become this issue where it's almost the annual conversation of
Halloween goes either the route of why are women's costumes
(03:06):
so super duper sexy? Or what's up with all of
these racially insensitive and flat out racist and cultural appropriation
ng costumes going on? Yeah? And I mean, I think
it's good that we're talking about this, because it seems
like the overwhelming response anytime you see anything online or
(03:26):
hear about it on the radio or anywhere, people's overwhelming
response tends to be, oh, get over yourselves, right, why
are you so politically correct? Come on, like my family
didn't own slaves. I mean, it's like this, this whole,
very expected, predictable argument that people make for being able
to wear very culturally insensitive costumes, right, as though Halloween
(03:51):
is some special day where not only did children get candy,
but adults can get a free pass for wearing black
face if they're white. Um. So, in case you were
wondering some examples of costumes that are not okay, the
the blogs, The Root and color Lines did a large roundup,
(04:11):
and this first one I actually saw a couple of
weeks ago when I was shopping for a costume for
a stuff I've never told you video. It's the ghetto
fab wig, the oversized afro, and I it stopped me
in my tracks when I was shopping, because not only
is it called the ghetto fab wig, but it was
(04:32):
also a white woman modeling it. Yeah, I when I
was when I saw that online, that picture that uh,
that wig. I don't understand why they couldn't Why do
they have to call it ghetto fabulous? You know? Like
part of the issue was the naming. And a lot
of people point this out on some of these blogs
where it's like, Okay, so you have, um a a
wig ahead of hair that is like more traditionally African American,
(04:56):
but you're naming it something like ghetto fabulous. Tacking the
fabulous on is supposed to make it okay or what exactly? Um? Well,
speaking of the hair issue, they're also gangster braids, which
look like Coolio on the cover of that album they
do from a long time ago. They do um. And
(05:17):
then there's the one that I have not seen before,
but it's called bighood of Fat Tribal Tiki Warrior, which
might sound hilarious but yet again, no, you're putting on
the costume of a Samoan man, right, Yeah. And then
you have one that is terrible, and I've seen several
inexplicably several iterations of this, which is the illegal alien
(05:41):
commentary on immigration. Uh. And usually it's like an a
literal like alien like from outer space face with either
a mustache or one particularly horrendous one had a like
prison uniform, an orange prison uniform. Yes, similarly to that,
you have the hay amigo, where it's just the typical
(06:02):
sombrero poncho, oversized mustache get up. And then there are
chop suey glasses, which your glasses that you can wear
that have eyes already in them that are slanted unlike yours.
Oh wait, what are you doing right? And then of
course the Japanese geisha, which is chuck full of meaning
(06:23):
that we will talk about as we go on, but
just the whole as we will talk about also the
appropriation of other people's cultures, shrinking them down into something
kind of cheap and tawdry for one night of entertainment
and drinking, and then you get to go back to
being your privileged self the next day. Exactly. Um. So, Caroline,
(06:48):
you mentioned how a lot of times when this conversation
of racial and cultural appropriation in Halloween costumes comes up,
the typical refrain from white people. We have to just
say flat out because that's who it's coming from a
lot of times, is you're being way too politically incorrect.
Can it just stop at some point? Can we just
(07:09):
have one night. I mean, it's not like I own slaves, okay, Yeah,
And and those arguments are are kind of ridiculous when
you I mean, let's just take a moment. You mentioned
the whole argument of I didn't own slaves or my
family didn't do that or whatever, Like, let's just think
back a minute through our nation's history and the fact
(07:31):
that a lot of people seem to just want to
forget what happened in this country with slavery. And so
when you fast fast forward to Halloween and people wanting
to adopt costumes that mock African Americans or just Africans, um,
(07:52):
it's it's not okay. And your your joke that you're
trying to make is not funny. Yeah. Leslie Picka, who
is the associate professor of sociology at the University of
Dayton in Ohio, told the Route that when it comes
to just wanting to make those jokes, say we're just
kidding around about some stereotypes. She says It's especially insidious
(08:12):
because it shuts down future conversations about the real, very
unfunny issues, because oh, you're just making a joke out
of it, right, And so it puts the blame on
the person who's offended instead of the person who's doing
the offended. And so you know, if I if you're
if you're wearing a costume or or doing anything or
saying something that I find offensive, suddenly I'm the bad
(08:36):
guy because I'm offended because you're saying something about me
or my culture or my background or whatever. Um. And
that does, like, like uh Pia says, it does shut
down the conversation because it's like, well, if you're just
going to make me feel doubly bad, then I don't
even want to have this conversation with you. Yeah. And
in the process of that, there's this factor of normalizing
(08:58):
whiteness that scholars talk about in terms of how those
racial and ethnic lampooning costumes only reinforce inaccurate ideas about
totally distinct racial and cultural communities because you are boiling
down all of the different variations or different ethnicities, different languages,
(09:23):
different traditions into one hilariously stereotypical costume. Yeah, and you're
just pretending that real people are fictional characters. I mean,
it's one thing to dress up like a person, like
a politician, like a character out of stories or mythology.
(09:44):
It's another thing to dress up as Mexican guy or
Geisha girl things like that, because then you are you're
taking you know, a whole entire culture with all of
its facets and varied elements, and you're reducing it too,
Like I said, something kind of cheap and tawdry. And
speaking of cheap and tawdry, I hate that we even
have to address the fact that black face still happens
(10:08):
routinely in Halloween costumes. And please, I really hope that
there isn't a listener out there who thinks that, oh
maybe maybe is that okay? Is that just? I mean,
come on, that's okay? Right now? We've all seen that
Designing Women episode, right which one is that? Just me?
The Designing Women episode where they want to I don't
know if it's a charity function, but the girls want
(10:30):
to perform at a at a charity event maybe and
they're going to perform as the Supremes. Well, so they
decide to just dress up in the fancy glittery gowns
with feather bows or whatever. But Delta Berk's character gets
it into her head that she is going to wear
black face, and they won't let her on stage because
because that's horrible, because that's ridiculous. Yeah. David Leonard, who
(10:53):
is the associate professor and chair of the Department of
Critical Culture and Gender and Race Studies at Washington State University,
said that black faces quote a part of history of demonization, mothering,
denying humanity, and imagining blackness through racist caricatures. Just just
say no, people, Yeah, and you're not by by dressing
(11:15):
up in this way, you're really not honoring anyone. You're
not celebrating a culture. You are failing at being ironic.
Like none of this, none of this is a joke.
But what if someone says, well, hey, listen, my my
black friends, don't mind my Indian friends, don't mind my
(11:36):
Asian friends. You know, there are people who say that too.
Of like they they're not uncomfortable, but you are still
dressing up as that character or that person or that
cultural stereotype from a position of privilege, a different position,
a position of other and so from that position, you
(11:57):
are still able to offend a whole of people. Just
because your friend, your black friend, or your Asian friend,
or whoever says that they're not bothered by it doesn't
mean that a whole host of others are not. Well.
It's kind of like, in the same way that wearing
those costumes collapses an entire ethnicity into that one stereotype.
(12:19):
Relying on maybe that one friend opinion sort of does
the same thing of collapsing it all into one person.
But it's also convenience. I think it's laziness. I think
you know when you say, oh, my one black friend
is okay with me wearing black face, I think you
know that that's sort of a lazy excuse and a
lazy way to, you know, be able to wear this
(12:41):
dumb costume that you're committed to wearing for some reason. Yeah.
I liked how Leonard said that. Listen, we aren't living
in some sort of post racial by referendum society because
the fact of the matter is, while jokes are great,
humor is fantastic, racism is obviously still alive. Well when
you look at things like the criminal justice gap, poverty
(13:03):
and education gaps, stopping frisk policies, controversy over voter ID laws.
There's a lot of stuff that has been in the
news this past year that's clear evidence that we are
not living in some post racial utopia. It would be
great if we were, but we aren't. Yeah, we're not.
And people are still being judged by the way they look.
(13:24):
I mean, a friend of mine was just telling me
that his son walked up to the teacher to turn
in an assignment early in high school and the teacher
looks at him and it's like, oh, well, you don't
look like the type to turn in an assignment early. Yes,
And my friend and his son are African Americans. So
we're definitely not in any sort of safe post racial zone. No.
(13:47):
And if you if you want evidence too of that,
Chescale is a prominent YouTube vlogger and she did a
video on costume fails about this kind of racial and
cultural appropriation in costumes. And if you just go on
(14:07):
that video and read through the comments section, actually just
don't do it. Never read the comment If you have
blood pressure issues, don't read the comments. But the evidence
is right there in the anger that people have of
just watching this one video of someone saying intelligently. Hey,
I would really appreciate it if you didn't wear a
(14:29):
black face this year. And in addition to for instance,
CHS Gale video, there are other people who are starting
awareness campaigns about this kind of stuff too, including a
group of students at Ohio University. Yeah there. Their group
is called Students Teaching against Racism in Society or STARS,
(14:50):
and they launched a campaign a few years back called
We're a Culture, Not a Costume. You've probably seen these
posters around floating around the Internet. You've also probably seen
the really jerk g um meme versions making fun of them.
But basically it's pictures of kids um from different ethnicities
holding pictures or next to pictures of people in costume
(15:14):
imitating their ethnicity. So there's an Asian girl next to
someone dressed up as a geisha, you know, Or there
is an African American girl next to a picture of
someone in black face. Yeah, and when I've I first
saw these a couple of weeks ago, and they're really
powerful because it does put what we're talking to in
(15:34):
two visual perspective. But yet again, if you want evidence
that there is still a problem, that this is a
valid point for us, to talk about, are the those
meme responses that blew up in these kids faces where
you have, uh, a mocking thing of a picture of
a dog next to a costume of a person dressed
(15:57):
up like a dog, right right exactly. And uh, writer
Whitney over at Auto Straddle talks about this. She is Asian,
and she was sort of taken aback, you could say,
by the response that these kids got for their campaign.
And she discusses what we mentioned earlier, which is that,
(16:17):
you know the problem with these racial stereotypes is that you,
from a position of privilege and other get to take
the costume off and you're not worried so much about
you know, stereotypes getting frisked for no reason, things like that,
But people who are minorities, ethnic minorities cannot do that.
(16:37):
And so she says that the resonance of everything from
a geisha to a terrorist stereotype persists long after the
end of October, basically saying, and the kids who started this, uh,
this poster campaign, we're kind of saying the same thing,
which is that every time images like this are perpetuated,
you know, people in cartoony geisha costumes, people in black
(17:00):
face it perpetuates the day to day stereotypes to the
actual humans have to live with, right, And the fact
of the matter two is I think you mentioned the
word laziness earlier, or it's like saying these kinds of
things is not an attempt to take the fun out
of Halloween. Halloween is so much fun. Halloween is one
(17:22):
of my favorite holidays, even though I usually leave by
costumes until the last minute and I end up looking
like a hot mess. But that's part of the fun
of it. And part of the fun of it too,
is trying to be creative because there are so many
options out there. Like why you would feel so compelled
(17:45):
to have to dress up as a Pocahontas like princess
in a buckskin costume? You got it, Halloween express, No,
you don't know, you don't have to. Well, I mean exactly,
but speaking of the Pocahonas Prince Si, I mean that
things like that, costumes like that are a huge, huge
(18:06):
market that the sexy lady costumes. You know, everything from
the sexy cheeseburger to the sexy nurse. But you also
have the double terrible of playing off of racial and
ethnic stereotypes. In addition, to sexualizing yourself and sexualizing that
entire ethnic group. Um. The geisha again is a perfect example, uh,
(18:29):
the Indian princess, And one of these blogs points out
the fact that when you dress up like an Indian
princess or a sexy Eskimo, you're ignoring the facts of
sexual abuse that Native women in America face. One in
three are raped, and seventy of the sexual violence against
Native American women is by non Native men. So the
(18:52):
more you perpetuate these not only sexy stereotypes, but the
stereotypes of submissiveness and you know, constant sexual availability, you
are not helping matters. Yeah, I mean it's the whole
factor of fetishizing the other the exotic. Oh look at
these these otherworldly creatures where they just turn in so
(19:15):
quickly to objects that you can pursue at your leisure,
which is which is not right. Um, But moving away
from Halloween a little bit, we've used the term appropriation
number of times already. What are we really talking about, though,
nuts and bolts wise, when we're talking about appropriation, because
this is not just something that happens in the Halloween
(19:37):
costumes that we might choose to wear. Well, yeah, and
we will talk about what appropriation means on a bigger scale,
right when we get back from a quick break, and
now back to the podcast where we're talking about cultural
(19:59):
appropriation beyond Halloween costumes. Right, So let's look look at
the definition from Fordham University law professors Susan Skiffiti, who
wrote the book Who Owns Culture, Appropriation and Authenticity in
American Law. She says that while it is very complicated
and complex, it's basically taking intellectual property, traditional knowledge, cultural expression,
(20:23):
or artifacts from someone else's culture without permission. This can
include the unauthorized use of another culture's dance, dress, music, language, folklore, cuisine,
traditional medicine, religious symbols, et cetera. And she says it's
most likely to be harmful when the source community is
a minority group that has been oppressed or exploited in
other ways, or when the object of appropriation is particularly sensitive,
(20:47):
such as sacred objects. And so I know that, she
and therefore I just listed a lot of things, and
you're like, well, what does I mean? I can't make
spaghetti because that's Italian food, right, right? Can't eat? Do?
She calm down? A lot of this has to do
a lot of this discussion about cultural appropriation and appropriating
other people's beliefs, way of dressing, religious items, all this stuff.
(21:13):
It's about respect and it's about the way that you
obtain these things and about the way you use them exactly.
And joking examples like eating spaghetti, eating sushi, I mean
that those are forms of a globalization. And also you
could interpret it as well as for appreciating the products
of other cultures. Right, Like one of the bloggers that
(21:36):
we were reading posted about how she likes dream catchers,
Native American dream catchers, and she's fretting because she's like, well,
here I am preaching against cultural appropriation, but am I
appropriating them? And she talked to some sociologists, she talked
to some actual members of the Native American community, and
they hammered home that whole idea of how are you
(21:58):
using it? Is it in a respect way? Do you
understand when you purchase a Native made item from a
Native American individual, do you understand the culture behind it?
Do you respect it? Do you appreciate it? You know,
it's it's not like it's different if you're urban outfitters
and their Navajo underwear exactly. And this comes up a
(22:19):
lot in fashion and in trends, and in how a
company like in urban outfitters might pluck from a culture,
from their handiwork, from their their crafts that they have
developed painstakingly, and then slap it on a T shirt
and sell it to a bunch of white kids for
way too much money. Right, But there's also a difference
(22:41):
too between this appropriation and also mythology, and this is
something that might be more tied to the Halloween aspect. Yeah,
and I mean, speaking of I mean white kids, I'm
not you know, we're not trying to make anybody feel
bad about being white necessarily. It's just that white quote
unquote white Caucasian ends. Uh, we are the dominant culture here.
(23:04):
White people, white Europeans came to this country, We colonized
this country and pretty much forced our culture onto everyone else.
So is it too much to ask for a little
cultural sensitivity? Yeah, I mean, and also in the process
obviously of colonizing this country, there was a bit of
genocide involved in that. And in the words of my
(23:27):
culture is not a trend tumbler. You can't appropriate the dominant,
especially if it was forced upon you. The term just
doesn't apply because of the power imbalance. Yeah, so that's
an answer to, well, what about if you're appropriating my whiteness, like, well,
you know, maybe you shouldn't wear polo shirts and it's
like all right, y'all. But there was um one thing
(23:49):
that came up in the discussion of Halloween costumes of
the white trash stereotype, which I say is also no, oh,
don't do that. You're also, I mean, you're saying hideous
statements about other people as well who are of a
different socioeconomic status or Southern just Southern in general. Oh,
(24:13):
I can't tell you how often, as someone who grew
up in the South lives in the South, still, I'm
commonly frustrated by portrayals of Southern people. It is frustrating
to see often Hollywood portrayals of being Southern, or Halloween
portrayals of being Southern as being incredibly stereotypical, as if
(24:37):
we're all just in breeding idiots for lack of a
better phrasing, not not eloquent podcast ors as some of
us all. You know, But what are a few non
Halloween examples of appropriation, just to just to round out
this podcast, Caroline, Yeah, well, I mean we did dig
(25:00):
up a lot of great examples of terrible stuff when
looking at Native American cultural appropriation. One huge when they
got a lot of attention in a really weak, pointless,
stupid apology was when Carly Class walked down the Victoria's
Secret runway wearing a massive headdress. Yeah. Over the Native
(25:23):
Appropriations blog, Adrian K writes that playing Indian has a
long history in the United States, all the way back
to those original tea partiers in Boston, and in no
way is it better than minstrel shows or dressing up
in blackface. You're collapsing distinct cultures and doing so, you're
asserting your power over them. It's that power issue over
(25:43):
and over and over again. And laziness too, because you're
showing you don't care. Right You're you're wearing this headdress
which is traditional you know, regalia in various cultures that
are foreign to you, and you're just showing that you
don't really care about it. And then Victorious Acrew was
an offender yet again with its Go East lingerie line
(26:04):
that it came out with I think a couple of
years back, and it portrayed one blonde, busty model in
its Geisha teddy and she had a little fan and
everything as well, and it was quickly removed from the
website because as soon as some Asian bloggers picked up
(26:24):
on it and expressed some outrage, Victoria's Secret yet again
tried to cover up their trail. And I'm not anti underwear.
And someone else who was definitely not anti underwear was
one of the commenters under the story about this Go
East sexy Geisha underwear. This guy was like, you know,
all these people have been saying, oh, you're too politically correct,
(26:45):
you know, get off of it. You're too sensitive. And
this guy comes on and he's like, you think he's
about to defend the blogger for for thinking the costumes terrible,
but instead his comment is like, well, I, for one,
when I see a Geisha costume, fully expect to see
an Asian woman. Come on, who wants to see a
blonde woman in a Geisha costume? And you're like, my brain,
(27:09):
it is breaking. And it broke Nina Jacento's brain over
at racial issues as well. She said that it's just
another example of taking a culture and stripping it of
its realness in order to fulfill fantasies of a safe
and non threatening, mysterious East and similarly to that point
on native appreparations about playing Indian in its long history
(27:33):
of another fashion blogger and Cornell University academic, min Ha
fam said that playing Oriental in quotes, can be traced
back to nineteen hundreds vaudeville stages. We're playing out fantasies
of racial exoticism as a way of dealing with racial
anxieties was a wildly popular cultural activity. And she also
(27:54):
is one of these people who says, and also it's
just a glaring example of laziness. Is this really what doing?
You know? We have all these resources, all this creativity,
all these cool things that we could be doing. Are
we really just going to harp on that? Yeah? I
I do think. I do think it's a good point
to bring up that it really is dealing with anxieties
(28:17):
and making something that you don't know about completely one dimensional. Yeah, completely,
not only taking away its otherness and installing this like
exoticism onto it, but just not even trying. I mean,
correct me, listeners if I'm wrong, And you have done
a lot of research about Geisha culture or or any
(28:40):
other culture out there, but it does seem to be
a lazy form of entertainment for privileged people who think
that because they are in a position of power and
that we are in some sort of post racial utopia,
that they can just dress up in black face or
a Geisha costume and call it a day. And let
me under score the fact that we are not anti
(29:02):
sexy costume in this podcast. This has nothing to do
with the amount of skin that you want to show
on Halloween. If you want to be a sexy hamburg
you be that sexy Hamburger. But rather, if you are
thinking about pretending to be someone from another ethnicity, I
think twice, please, Well, do you know what you're gonna
(29:26):
be for Halloween? I think I am going to be
Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg because I have everything
I need for it. I think I am going to
be a silent movie star. Yeah. I really liked your
idea for that. And you don't have to talk to
anyone all night if you don't just hold up cue
(29:47):
cards that say give me another Vodkatonic exactly. And if
you are looking for Halloween costumes, I am going to
shamelessly plug the stuff mon never told you. Video five
having as Halloween costume ideas that does include my Ruth
Bader Ginsburg, which you've seen the picture Caroline fantastic. It's
(30:08):
pretty good, I gotta say so. You can head over
to YouTube dot com slash stuff Mom Never told You
and check that out. And we want to hear what
you're gonna be for Halloween as well, and what you
think about our conversation about racial appropriation and Halloween. And
if you're listening to this after Halloween and you saw
some horrible violations of everything we've been talking about, let
(30:32):
it all out to us Vent mom Stuff at Discovery
dot com, or you can also head over to Facebook
or tweet us set Mom's Stuff podcasts. And we got
a couple of letters to share with you when we
come right back from a quick break and now back
(30:54):
to our letters. So I've got a let her here
from Heather about endometriosis podcasts, and she writes, when I
was thirty three, I began to experience intense pain during
my menstrual cycle. It was so bad that I would
feel like I was being stabbed in either my lower
back or my right lower front, almost like appendicitis. It
(31:15):
would be so intense that I would get lightheaded and
feel nauseous or vomit every single month, but I always
went in for my annual paps, mayors, and pelvic exams,
and each one would come back with a clean bill
of health. Even though I was in my early thirties
not a teenager. My O B G, y N s
were women, and I knew that there had to be
more going on than just something I had to live with.
I didn't push the subject because I figured that they
(31:37):
were the doctors. They had the degree, so they must
know what they're talking about, and continued suffering for several years.
Just before my thirty eight birthday, I experienced the worst
pain I ever felt. The symptoms presented themselves like I
had appendicitis, and I ended up in the emergency room. Luckily,
the doctor on call in the er happened to not
(31:57):
only be an O B G, I M, but actually
taught other doctor is how to reform laparoscopic hits directomys,
which I eventually had to have done. Unfortunately, there were
so many large cysts in both ovaries that she was
unable to save either. And I have a son, so
I wasn't concerned about not being able to have another child.
I later found out that my mom suffered the same
thing when she was younger, and my only sister ended
up having the same symptoms later on that I first
(32:19):
started having when she was around the same age. The
doctors were trying to pawn it off on her as
if it was just a painful period or something she
was going to have to deal with. We need to
tell women it's okay to raise their voice if they
don't feel they're being heard. While doctors do have the degrees,
we know what is normal and not normal when it
comes to our bodies. Also, just because your doctor has
ovaries doesn't mean they're better at their job than someone
(32:40):
who doesn't. All my doctors were women, and they all
told me the same thing until I ended up in
the e er. Keep up the good work, ladies. Well
thanks Heather, and here's wishing you good health. And I
have a letter here from Meg also about our endometrius.
This episode, she says, I'm twenty years old and have
been suffering from chronic period pain and horrific PMS symptoms
(33:03):
for the last ten years. Ever since I got my
first period at age ten, being on the pill for
about nine years and trying to manage these symptoms. Like
many young women, I was too embarrassed to talk to
my doctor about just how bad it was until about
five years ago. Despite having been seen by a gynecologist
for many years prior, I was only diagnosed by accident
while having a lapper scopy. This was five years ago,
(33:26):
and because of my age, the doctors were hesitant to
operate on me for the indometriosis. We tried managing it
with stronger doss at the pill and dietary changes. However,
my symptoms got so bad that the specialist told me
it was time to operate. This time last year, I
had my surgery, and when I came to after my operation,
my doctor informed me that it was far worse than
he thought it would be. You are a nineteen year
(33:47):
old woman with endometriosis, worse than I've seen in any
of my forty year old patients, he said. I am
now a year down the track and still managing these
horrific symptoms with only the pill. In a few weeks,
I'm going back to plead my case to be fitted
with an i U D in the hopes that this
will prevent any further damage and hopefully preserve what little
chance I have left of being fertile. Well, thank you
(34:09):
Meg for sharing your story, and I also wish you
the best of luck with your health journey. And thanks
to everybody who's written in mom Stuff at Discovery dot
com is where you can send your letters. You can
also follow us on Facebook and on Twitter at mom
Stuff Podcast, and you can also follow us on Instagram
at stuff mom Never Told You. And you'll want to
(34:29):
be sure to start following us because Caroline and I
will be posting photos of our Halloween costumes there. And
of course don't forget to head on over to YouTube
and check out our channel where at YouTube dot com
slash stuff mom Never Told You, And don't forget to
subscribe for more on this and thousands of other topics.
(34:51):
Is it how stuff works dot com? No,
Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff Mom
never told you. Alright, So Halloween is upon us, which
means candy Jack Lanard's and costumes and unfortunately, offensive costumes.
(00:29):
This is something that comes up every year, and with
all of the news around us Senator Elizabeth Warren's DNA
test showing she had a Native American ancestors somewhere along
the line, and the problematic news coverage around to that.
Another related news item Megan Kelly's comments on the NBC
Today Show suggesting blackface is acceptable on Halloween. Her comments
(00:54):
were swiftly and pretty much universally condemned, and her show
was cance old. So we present to you this handy
guide what not to wear on Halloween. Welcome to Stuff
Mom Never told You from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello,
(01:18):
and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline,
and this kicks off one of two Halloween themed episodes
that we're doing this year. And in this installment, we're
going to talk about costumes. But we're not going to
talk about sexy costumes. Now, we're going to talk about
racist costumes people, Yeah, which sometimes take a turn for
(01:40):
the sexy and racist costumes if you can. Yeah, if
you can get both of those and one, you've become
a terrible Halloween costumes stereotype. Yes, and this is a
listener request that came from Facebook and it got a
lot of likes, so we said, hey, let's talk about
this costume issue, because Caroline, I remember distinctly when I
(02:03):
was in college, it was Halloween and you know, everybody
was out and I saw a guy dressed up as
a member of the Taliban and he was in brown
face and it was appalling. I mean, like, obviously he
was trying to make a terrible nine eleven joke and
(02:24):
being horribly racist about it. And that was my first
direct experience with the racist Halloween costume. Now, I'm I'm
usually myself. I'm usually some sort of female cartoon character.
I've I've been uh, April O'Neil, and I've been Leela
(02:45):
from Futurama. But no, I can't say I've ever been
something like a member of a particular culture. That's a
really good thing because it happens a lot, and it's
become this issue where it's almost the annual conversation of
Halloween goes either the route of why are women's costumes
(03:06):
so super duper sexy? Or what's up with all of
these racially insensitive and flat out racist and cultural appropriation
ng costumes going on? Yeah? And I mean, I think
it's good that we're talking about this, because it seems
like the overwhelming response anytime you see anything online or
(03:26):
hear about it on the radio or anywhere, people's overwhelming
response tends to be, oh, get over yourselves, right, why
are you so politically correct? Come on, like my family
didn't own slaves. I mean, it's like this, this whole,
very expected, predictable argument that people make for being able
to wear very culturally insensitive costumes, right, as though Halloween
(03:51):
is some special day where not only did children get candy,
but adults can get a free pass for wearing black
face if they're white. Um. So, in case you were
wondering some examples of costumes that are not okay, the
the blogs, The Root and color Lines did a large roundup,
(04:11):
and this first one I actually saw a couple of
weeks ago when I was shopping for a costume for
a stuff I've never told you video. It's the ghetto
fab wig, the oversized afro, and I it stopped me
in my tracks when I was shopping, because not only
is it called the ghetto fab wig, but it was
(04:32):
also a white woman modeling it. Yeah, I when I
was when I saw that online, that picture that uh,
that wig. I don't understand why they couldn't Why do
they have to call it ghetto fabulous? You know? Like
part of the issue was the naming. And a lot
of people point this out on some of these blogs
where it's like, Okay, so you have, um a a
wig ahead of hair that is like more traditionally African American,
(04:56):
but you're naming it something like ghetto fabulous. Tacking the
fabulous on is supposed to make it okay or what exactly? Um? Well,
speaking of the hair issue, they're also gangster braids, which
look like Coolio on the cover of that album they
do from a long time ago. They do um. And
(05:17):
then there's the one that I have not seen before,
but it's called bighood of Fat Tribal Tiki Warrior, which
might sound hilarious but yet again, no, you're putting on
the costume of a Samoan man, right, Yeah. And then
you have one that is terrible, and I've seen several
inexplicably several iterations of this, which is the illegal alien
(05:41):
commentary on immigration. Uh. And usually it's like an a
literal like alien like from outer space face with either
a mustache or one particularly horrendous one had a like
prison uniform, an orange prison uniform. Yes, similarly to that,
you have the hay amigo, where it's just the typical
(06:02):
sombrero poncho, oversized mustache get up. And then there are
chop suey glasses, which your glasses that you can wear
that have eyes already in them that are slanted unlike yours.
Oh wait, what are you doing right? And then of
course the Japanese geisha, which is chuck full of meaning
(06:23):
that we will talk about as we go on, but
just the whole as we will talk about also the
appropriation of other people's cultures, shrinking them down into something
kind of cheap and tawdry for one night of entertainment
and drinking, and then you get to go back to
being your privileged self the next day. Exactly. Um. So, Caroline,
(06:48):
you mentioned how a lot of times when this conversation
of racial and cultural appropriation in Halloween costumes comes up,
the typical refrain from white people. We have to just
say flat out because that's who it's coming from a
lot of times, is you're being way too politically incorrect.
Can it just stop at some point? Can we just
(07:09):
have one night. I mean, it's not like I own slaves, okay, Yeah,
And and those arguments are are kind of ridiculous when
you I mean, let's just take a moment. You mentioned
the whole argument of I didn't own slaves or my
family didn't do that or whatever, Like, let's just think
back a minute through our nation's history and the fact
(07:31):
that a lot of people seem to just want to
forget what happened in this country with slavery. And so
when you fast fast forward to Halloween and people wanting
to adopt costumes that mock African Americans or just Africans, um,
(07:52):
it's it's not okay. And your your joke that you're
trying to make is not funny. Yeah. Leslie Picka, who
is the associate professor of sociology at the University of
Dayton in Ohio, told the Route that when it comes
to just wanting to make those jokes, say we're just
kidding around about some stereotypes. She says It's especially insidious
(08:12):
because it shuts down future conversations about the real, very
unfunny issues, because oh, you're just making a joke out
of it, right, And so it puts the blame on
the person who's offended instead of the person who's doing
the offended. And so you know, if I if you're
if you're wearing a costume or or doing anything or
saying something that I find offensive, suddenly I'm the bad
(08:36):
guy because I'm offended because you're saying something about me
or my culture or my background or whatever. Um. And
that does, like, like uh Pia says, it does shut
down the conversation because it's like, well, if you're just
going to make me feel doubly bad, then I don't
even want to have this conversation with you. Yeah. And
in the process of that, there's this factor of normalizing
(08:58):
whiteness that scholars talk about in terms of how those
racial and ethnic lampooning costumes only reinforce inaccurate ideas about
totally distinct racial and cultural communities because you are boiling
down all of the different variations or different ethnicities, different languages,
(09:23):
different traditions into one hilariously stereotypical costume. Yeah, and you're
just pretending that real people are fictional characters. I mean,
it's one thing to dress up like a person, like
a politician, like a character out of stories or mythology.
(09:44):
It's another thing to dress up as Mexican guy or
Geisha girl things like that, because then you are you're
taking you know, a whole entire culture with all of
its facets and varied elements, and you're reducing it too,
Like I said, something kind of cheap and tawdry. And
speaking of cheap and tawdry, I hate that we even
have to address the fact that black face still happens
(10:08):
routinely in Halloween costumes. And please, I really hope that
there isn't a listener out there who thinks that, oh
maybe maybe is that okay? Is that just? I mean,
come on, that's okay? Right now? We've all seen that
Designing Women episode, right which one is that? Just me?
The Designing Women episode where they want to I don't
know if it's a charity function, but the girls want
(10:30):
to perform at a at a charity event maybe and
they're going to perform as the Supremes. Well, so they
decide to just dress up in the fancy glittery gowns
with feather bows or whatever. But Delta Berk's character gets
it into her head that she is going to wear
black face, and they won't let her on stage because
because that's horrible, because that's ridiculous. Yeah. David Leonard, who
(10:53):
is the associate professor and chair of the Department of
Critical Culture and Gender and Race Studies at Washington State University,
said that black faces quote a part of history of demonization, mothering,
denying humanity, and imagining blackness through racist caricatures. Just just
say no, people, Yeah, and you're not by by dressing
(11:15):
up in this way, you're really not honoring anyone. You're
not celebrating a culture. You are failing at being ironic.
Like none of this, none of this is a joke.
But what if someone says, well, hey, listen, my my
black friends, don't mind my Indian friends, don't mind my
(11:36):
Asian friends. You know, there are people who say that too.
Of like they they're not uncomfortable, but you are still
dressing up as that character or that person or that
cultural stereotype from a position of privilege, a different position,
a position of other and so from that position, you
(11:57):
are still able to offend a whole of people. Just
because your friend, your black friend, or your Asian friend,
or whoever says that they're not bothered by it doesn't
mean that a whole host of others are not. Well.
It's kind of like, in the same way that wearing
those costumes collapses an entire ethnicity into that one stereotype.
(12:19):
Relying on maybe that one friend opinion sort of does
the same thing of collapsing it all into one person.
But it's also convenience. I think it's laziness. I think
you know when you say, oh, my one black friend
is okay with me wearing black face, I think you
know that that's sort of a lazy excuse and a
lazy way to, you know, be able to wear this
(12:41):
dumb costume that you're committed to wearing for some reason. Yeah.
I liked how Leonard said that. Listen, we aren't living
in some sort of post racial by referendum society because
the fact of the matter is, while jokes are great,
humor is fantastic, racism is obviously still alive. Well when
you look at things like the criminal justice gap, poverty
(13:03):
and education gaps, stopping frisk policies, controversy over voter ID laws.
There's a lot of stuff that has been in the
news this past year that's clear evidence that we are
not living in some post racial utopia. It would be
great if we were, but we aren't. Yeah, we're not.
And people are still being judged by the way they look.
(13:24):
I mean, a friend of mine was just telling me
that his son walked up to the teacher to turn
in an assignment early in high school and the teacher
looks at him and it's like, oh, well, you don't
look like the type to turn in an assignment early. Yes,
And my friend and his son are African Americans. So
we're definitely not in any sort of safe post racial zone. No.
(13:47):
And if you if you want evidence too of that,
Chescale is a prominent YouTube vlogger and she did a
video on costume fails about this kind of racial and
cultural appropriation in costumes. And if you just go on
(14:07):
that video and read through the comments section, actually just
don't do it. Never read the comment If you have
blood pressure issues, don't read the comments. But the evidence
is right there in the anger that people have of
just watching this one video of someone saying intelligently. Hey,
I would really appreciate it if you didn't wear a
(14:29):
black face this year. And in addition to for instance,
CHS Gale video, there are other people who are starting
awareness campaigns about this kind of stuff too, including a
group of students at Ohio University. Yeah there. Their group
is called Students Teaching against Racism in Society or STARS,
(14:50):
and they launched a campaign a few years back called
We're a Culture, Not a Costume. You've probably seen these
posters around floating around the Internet. You've also probably seen
the really jerk g um meme versions making fun of them.
But basically it's pictures of kids um from different ethnicities
holding pictures or next to pictures of people in costume
(15:14):
imitating their ethnicity. So there's an Asian girl next to
someone dressed up as a geisha, you know, Or there
is an African American girl next to a picture of
someone in black face. Yeah, and when I've I first
saw these a couple of weeks ago, and they're really
powerful because it does put what we're talking to in
(15:34):
two visual perspective. But yet again, if you want evidence
that there is still a problem, that this is a
valid point for us, to talk about, are the those
meme responses that blew up in these kids faces where
you have, uh, a mocking thing of a picture of
a dog next to a costume of a person dressed
(15:57):
up like a dog, right right exactly. And uh, writer
Whitney over at Auto Straddle talks about this. She is Asian,
and she was sort of taken aback, you could say,
by the response that these kids got for their campaign.
And she discusses what we mentioned earlier, which is that,
(16:17):
you know the problem with these racial stereotypes is that you,
from a position of privilege and other get to take
the costume off and you're not worried so much about
you know, stereotypes getting frisked for no reason, things like that,
But people who are minorities, ethnic minorities cannot do that.
(16:37):
And so she says that the resonance of everything from
a geisha to a terrorist stereotype persists long after the
end of October, basically saying, and the kids who started this, uh,
this poster campaign, we're kind of saying the same thing,
which is that every time images like this are perpetuated,
you know, people in cartoony geisha costumes, people in black
(17:00):
face it perpetuates the day to day stereotypes to the
actual humans have to live with, right, And the fact
of the matter two is I think you mentioned the
word laziness earlier, or it's like saying these kinds of
things is not an attempt to take the fun out
of Halloween. Halloween is so much fun. Halloween is one
(17:22):
of my favorite holidays, even though I usually leave by
costumes until the last minute and I end up looking
like a hot mess. But that's part of the fun
of it. And part of the fun of it too,
is trying to be creative because there are so many
options out there. Like why you would feel so compelled
(17:45):
to have to dress up as a Pocahontas like princess
in a buckskin costume? You got it, Halloween express, No,
you don't know, you don't have to. Well, I mean exactly,
but speaking of the Pocahonas Prince Si, I mean that
things like that, costumes like that are a huge, huge
(18:06):
market that the sexy lady costumes. You know, everything from
the sexy cheeseburger to the sexy nurse. But you also
have the double terrible of playing off of racial and
ethnic stereotypes. In addition, to sexualizing yourself and sexualizing that
entire ethnic group. Um. The geisha again is a perfect example, uh,
(18:29):
the Indian princess, And one of these blogs points out
the fact that when you dress up like an Indian
princess or a sexy Eskimo, you're ignoring the facts of
sexual abuse that Native women in America face. One in
three are raped, and seventy of the sexual violence against
Native American women is by non Native men. So the
(18:52):
more you perpetuate these not only sexy stereotypes, but the
stereotypes of submissiveness and you know, constant sexual availability, you
are not helping matters. Yeah, I mean it's the whole
factor of fetishizing the other the exotic. Oh look at
these these otherworldly creatures where they just turn in so
(19:15):
quickly to objects that you can pursue at your leisure,
which is which is not right. Um, But moving away
from Halloween a little bit, we've used the term appropriation
number of times already. What are we really talking about, though,
nuts and bolts wise, when we're talking about appropriation, because
this is not just something that happens in the Halloween
(19:37):
costumes that we might choose to wear. Well, yeah, and
we will talk about what appropriation means on a bigger scale,
right when we get back from a quick break, and
now back to the podcast where we're talking about cultural
(19:59):
appropriation beyond Halloween costumes. Right, So let's look look at
the definition from Fordham University law professors Susan Skiffiti, who
wrote the book Who Owns Culture, Appropriation and Authenticity in
American Law. She says that while it is very complicated
and complex, it's basically taking intellectual property, traditional knowledge, cultural expression,
(20:23):
or artifacts from someone else's culture without permission. This can
include the unauthorized use of another culture's dance, dress, music, language, folklore, cuisine,
traditional medicine, religious symbols, et cetera. And she says it's
most likely to be harmful when the source community is
a minority group that has been oppressed or exploited in
other ways, or when the object of appropriation is particularly sensitive,
(20:47):
such as sacred objects. And so I know that, she
and therefore I just listed a lot of things, and
you're like, well, what does I mean? I can't make
spaghetti because that's Italian food, right, right? Can't eat? Do?
She calm down? A lot of this has to do
a lot of this discussion about cultural appropriation and appropriating
other people's beliefs, way of dressing, religious items, all this stuff.
(21:13):
It's about respect and it's about the way that you
obtain these things and about the way you use them exactly.
And joking examples like eating spaghetti, eating sushi, I mean
that those are forms of a globalization. And also you
could interpret it as well as for appreciating the products
of other cultures. Right, Like one of the bloggers that
(21:36):
we were reading posted about how she likes dream catchers,
Native American dream catchers, and she's fretting because she's like, well,
here I am preaching against cultural appropriation, but am I
appropriating them? And she talked to some sociologists, she talked
to some actual members of the Native American community, and
they hammered home that whole idea of how are you
(21:58):
using it? Is it in a respect way? Do you
understand when you purchase a Native made item from a
Native American individual, do you understand the culture behind it?
Do you respect it? Do you appreciate it? You know,
it's it's not like it's different if you're urban outfitters
and their Navajo underwear exactly. And this comes up a
(22:19):
lot in fashion and in trends, and in how a
company like in urban outfitters might pluck from a culture,
from their handiwork, from their their crafts that they have
developed painstakingly, and then slap it on a T shirt
and sell it to a bunch of white kids for
way too much money. Right, But there's also a difference
(22:41):
too between this appropriation and also mythology, and this is
something that might be more tied to the Halloween aspect. Yeah,
and I mean, speaking of I mean white kids, I'm
not you know, we're not trying to make anybody feel
bad about being white necessarily. It's just that white quote
unquote white Caucasian ends. Uh, we are the dominant culture here.
(23:04):
White people, white Europeans came to this country, We colonized
this country and pretty much forced our culture onto everyone else.
So is it too much to ask for a little
cultural sensitivity? Yeah, I mean, and also in the process
obviously of colonizing this country, there was a bit of
genocide involved in that. And in the words of my
(23:27):
culture is not a trend tumbler. You can't appropriate the dominant,
especially if it was forced upon you. The term just
doesn't apply because of the power imbalance. Yeah, so that's
an answer to, well, what about if you're appropriating my whiteness, like, well,
you know, maybe you shouldn't wear polo shirts and it's
like all right, y'all. But there was um one thing
(23:49):
that came up in the discussion of Halloween costumes of
the white trash stereotype, which I say is also no, oh,
don't do that. You're also, I mean, you're saying hideous
statements about other people as well who are of a
different socioeconomic status or Southern just Southern in general. Oh,
(24:13):
I can't tell you how often, as someone who grew
up in the South lives in the South, still, I'm
commonly frustrated by portrayals of Southern people. It is frustrating
to see often Hollywood portrayals of being Southern, or Halloween
portrayals of being Southern as being incredibly stereotypical, as if
(24:37):
we're all just in breeding idiots for lack of a
better phrasing, not not eloquent podcast ors as some of
us all. You know, But what are a few non
Halloween examples of appropriation, just to just to round out
this podcast, Caroline, Yeah, well, I mean we did dig
(25:00):
up a lot of great examples of terrible stuff when
looking at Native American cultural appropriation. One huge when they
got a lot of attention in a really weak, pointless,
stupid apology was when Carly Class walked down the Victoria's
Secret runway wearing a massive headdress. Yeah. Over the Native
(25:23):
Appropriations blog, Adrian K writes that playing Indian has a
long history in the United States, all the way back
to those original tea partiers in Boston, and in no
way is it better than minstrel shows or dressing up
in blackface. You're collapsing distinct cultures and doing so, you're
asserting your power over them. It's that power issue over
(25:43):
and over and over again. And laziness too, because you're
showing you don't care. Right You're you're wearing this headdress
which is traditional you know, regalia in various cultures that
are foreign to you, and you're just showing that you
don't really care about it. And then Victorious Acrew was
an offender yet again with its Go East lingerie line
(26:04):
that it came out with I think a couple of
years back, and it portrayed one blonde, busty model in
its Geisha teddy and she had a little fan and
everything as well, and it was quickly removed from the
website because as soon as some Asian bloggers picked up
(26:24):
on it and expressed some outrage, Victoria's Secret yet again
tried to cover up their trail. And I'm not anti underwear.
And someone else who was definitely not anti underwear was
one of the commenters under the story about this Go
East sexy Geisha underwear. This guy was like, you know,
all these people have been saying, oh, you're too politically correct,
(26:45):
you know, get off of it. You're too sensitive. And
this guy comes on and he's like, you think he's
about to defend the blogger for for thinking the costumes terrible,
but instead his comment is like, well, I, for one,
when I see a Geisha costume, fully expect to see
an Asian woman. Come on, who wants to see a
blonde woman in a Geisha costume? And you're like, my brain,
(27:09):
it is breaking. And it broke Nina Jacento's brain over
at racial issues as well. She said that it's just
another example of taking a culture and stripping it of
its realness in order to fulfill fantasies of a safe
and non threatening, mysterious East and similarly to that point
on native appreparations about playing Indian in its long history
(27:33):
of another fashion blogger and Cornell University academic, min Ha
fam said that playing Oriental in quotes, can be traced
back to nineteen hundreds vaudeville stages. We're playing out fantasies
of racial exoticism as a way of dealing with racial
anxieties was a wildly popular cultural activity. And she also
(27:54):
is one of these people who says, and also it's
just a glaring example of laziness. Is this really what doing?
You know? We have all these resources, all this creativity,
all these cool things that we could be doing. Are
we really just going to harp on that? Yeah? I
I do think. I do think it's a good point
to bring up that it really is dealing with anxieties
(28:17):
and making something that you don't know about completely one dimensional. Yeah, completely,
not only taking away its otherness and installing this like
exoticism onto it, but just not even trying. I mean,
correct me, listeners if I'm wrong, And you have done
a lot of research about Geisha culture or or any
(28:40):
other culture out there, but it does seem to be
a lazy form of entertainment for privileged people who think
that because they are in a position of power and
that we are in some sort of post racial utopia,
that they can just dress up in black face or
a Geisha costume and call it a day. And let
me under score the fact that we are not anti
(29:02):
sexy costume in this podcast. This has nothing to do
with the amount of skin that you want to show
on Halloween. If you want to be a sexy hamburg
you be that sexy Hamburger. But rather, if you are
thinking about pretending to be someone from another ethnicity, I
think twice, please, Well, do you know what you're gonna
(29:26):
be for Halloween? I think I am going to be
Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg because I have everything
I need for it. I think I am going to
be a silent movie star. Yeah. I really liked your
idea for that. And you don't have to talk to
anyone all night if you don't just hold up cue
(29:47):
cards that say give me another Vodkatonic exactly. And if
you are looking for Halloween costumes, I am going to
shamelessly plug the stuff mon never told you. Video five
having as Halloween costume ideas that does include my Ruth
Bader Ginsburg, which you've seen the picture Caroline fantastic. It's
(30:08):
pretty good, I gotta say so. You can head over
to YouTube dot com slash stuff Mom Never told You
and check that out. And we want to hear what
you're gonna be for Halloween as well, and what you
think about our conversation about racial appropriation and Halloween. And
if you're listening to this after Halloween and you saw
some horrible violations of everything we've been talking about, let
(30:32):
it all out to us Vent mom Stuff at Discovery
dot com, or you can also head over to Facebook
or tweet us set Mom's Stuff podcasts. And we got
a couple of letters to share with you when we
come right back from a quick break and now back
(30:54):
to our letters. So I've got a let her here
from Heather about endometriosis podcasts, and she writes, when I
was thirty three, I began to experience intense pain during
my menstrual cycle. It was so bad that I would
feel like I was being stabbed in either my lower
back or my right lower front, almost like appendicitis. It
(31:15):
would be so intense that I would get lightheaded and
feel nauseous or vomit every single month, but I always
went in for my annual paps, mayors, and pelvic exams,
and each one would come back with a clean bill
of health. Even though I was in my early thirties
not a teenager. My O B G, y N s
were women, and I knew that there had to be
more going on than just something I had to live with.
I didn't push the subject because I figured that they
(31:37):
were the doctors. They had the degree, so they must
know what they're talking about, and continued suffering for several years.
Just before my thirty eight birthday, I experienced the worst
pain I ever felt. The symptoms presented themselves like I
had appendicitis, and I ended up in the emergency room. Luckily,
the doctor on call in the er happened to not
(31:57):
only be an O B G, I M, but actually
taught other doctor is how to reform laparoscopic hits directomys,
which I eventually had to have done. Unfortunately, there were
so many large cysts in both ovaries that she was
unable to save either. And I have a son, so
I wasn't concerned about not being able to have another child.
I later found out that my mom suffered the same
thing when she was younger, and my only sister ended
up having the same symptoms later on that I first
(32:19):
started having when she was around the same age. The
doctors were trying to pawn it off on her as
if it was just a painful period or something she
was going to have to deal with. We need to
tell women it's okay to raise their voice if they
don't feel they're being heard. While doctors do have the degrees,
we know what is normal and not normal when it
comes to our bodies. Also, just because your doctor has
ovaries doesn't mean they're better at their job than someone
(32:40):
who doesn't. All my doctors were women, and they all
told me the same thing until I ended up in
the e er. Keep up the good work, ladies. Well
thanks Heather, and here's wishing you good health. And I
have a letter here from Meg also about our endometrius.
This episode, she says, I'm twenty years old and have
been suffering from chronic period pain and horrific PMS symptoms
(33:03):
for the last ten years. Ever since I got my
first period at age ten, being on the pill for
about nine years and trying to manage these symptoms. Like
many young women, I was too embarrassed to talk to
my doctor about just how bad it was until about
five years ago. Despite having been seen by a gynecologist
for many years prior, I was only diagnosed by accident
while having a lapper scopy. This was five years ago,
(33:26):
and because of my age, the doctors were hesitant to
operate on me for the indometriosis. We tried managing it
with stronger doss at the pill and dietary changes. However,
my symptoms got so bad that the specialist told me
it was time to operate. This time last year, I
had my surgery, and when I came to after my operation,
my doctor informed me that it was far worse than
he thought it would be. You are a nineteen year
(33:47):
old woman with endometriosis, worse than I've seen in any
of my forty year old patients, he said. I am
now a year down the track and still managing these
horrific symptoms with only the pill. In a few weeks,
I'm going back to plead my case to be fitted
with an i U D in the hopes that this
will prevent any further damage and hopefully preserve what little
chance I have left of being fertile. Well, thank you
(34:09):
Meg for sharing your story, and I also wish you
the best of luck with your health journey. And thanks
to everybody who's written in mom Stuff at Discovery dot
com is where you can send your letters. You can
also follow us on Facebook and on Twitter at mom
Stuff Podcast, and you can also follow us on Instagram
at stuff mom Never Told You. And you'll want to
(34:29):
be sure to start following us because Caroline and I
will be posting photos of our Halloween costumes there. And
of course don't forget to head on over to YouTube
and check out our channel where at YouTube dot com
slash stuff mom Never Told You, And don't forget to
subscribe for more on this and thousands of other topics.
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