October 9, 2021 • 48 mins
In our pop culture, women frequently lust after monsters. Why is that? We uncover the truth in this classic episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie, Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff I've
never told your protection of by High Radio. So it's Samantha.
You have talked a lot about monsters and shipping and
all of these things, which is related to what episode
(00:28):
of Bringing Back Today, But I'm not sure I've ever
asked you this. You have a favorite horror movie villain? Yeah,
I know you've never asked me that, and now we
have to think about it because villain wise, m h yeah,
you know you got your classics. We've been talking a
lot about, Like you know, I said, I really like
(00:48):
vampires like that. That's stuffing that I really do like.
But honestly, I love a good demon possession. I feel
like those are the ones that can get you the best.
At time, will say, and I'm so sad it's a
Roman Polinski film because I don't like him and I
can no longer watch this. But Rosemary's Baby, the antagonist
(01:09):
was a whole like to me, so it always but
what it was for being a horror movie to me,
that was one of the ones that still stand today
as a horror movie, you know, because a lot of
the old ones are really cheesy and you're like what
is that, right? Or you know, uh, even Jaws to
(01:30):
a certain degree, Like you're like, okay, but I feel
like things like that when it comes to an idea. Yeah,
what gets me more than anything else, right, I mean
it's upsetting how much that movie still holds up for sure. Yeah.
I'm somebody who's oddly like very competitive about things that
don't matter. Like I don't really care, but like if
(01:51):
a movie comes out and it's like Freddie versus Jason,
I have an immediate like, oh, this one should win.
And I don't know why that is, but so I
have like rankings of you know, you got your hell
Raiser and your candy Man and Freddie and Jason and
Michael and all of those people. One of the reasons
I was thinking about this is I was talking about
with some friends of ours this past weekend. It's getting
dead by daylight I think that's what it's called. But
(02:13):
you get to pick like a popular villain and everyone
else is trying to survive, and you're, you know, Michael
trying to kill them and you have to survive till
daylight or kill them all to win, depending on who
you are. I really like Samaraw from the Ring, the
Original Ring. I really like Pyramid and from Silent Hill
(02:34):
the game, but you know it's also represented in the movie.
You much more messed up. Perhaps well I don't know,
it's messed up all around. That's not my next watch list.
Oh gosh, I'm interested to hear what you think. Yeah,
for sure. I mean there's really if you can do
a good villain in a Halloween movie, even if it's
(02:55):
kind of cheesier, kind of fun funny like that can
that really is what makes said a lot of times,
you've got to have that villain that either really scares
you and or is somehow like you can see they're
they're not maybe their side of it, but kind of
like their origins to where you kind of understand. Or
they might not even have one at all and that's
even terrifying. Or they're funny. Are there something about them
(03:17):
that's kind of like pretty with his puns or whatever. Ye, yes, yes,
I've thought about this a lot. Link But yes, all
of that being said, you wanted to bring back this
episode about women and their their love of monsters, so
please enjoy. Hey this is Annie and I'm Samantha and
(03:45):
welcome to stuff and I'll never told your protection of
I Heart Radio's house stuff works. Okay, all right, here
we go today. We are finally tackling a topic I
have wanted to talk about for a long time. I
(04:05):
believe in the first ever episode that I was on
that wasn't kind of an intro episode, I mentioned that
I wanted to talk about this, right. I think you
told me that pretty quickly as one of your ideas
when we were discussing the future a sementy and I'm like,
I don't know if I can contribute to this, but
I will be there to listen. Perfect, Yes, And I've
wanted to talk about this, like just not even on podcasts,
(04:28):
but just a woman about town, a woman in southtown,
even else, I'm a woman about town since Twilight was
at its cheek because I I was just so kind
of befuddled and intrigued about what was happening. So did
you watch any of the Twilight? I watched the first one.
(04:49):
And I'm not here to make fun of what anyone enjoys. Um,
I just wasn't right. I went in blind and I
laughed at a part I'm not sure I was supposed
to laugh at. This movie was kind of laughing. It
was the first movie and this young girl behind me
threatened to cut me in an alleyway, and I was like,
I want to talk about this one day. I'll have
(05:10):
a podcast of my own and I can I can
delve into your So I was in the middle of
the Twilight frenzy as well, and I was much older
than the majority of the Twilight people who Twilight fans.
I think the fandom um and I will say it
was really enjoyable, and I did like it because it
was an easy read and it was really like mind
(05:31):
numbing in the sense of like you don't have to
think too hard into it. And as any other thing,
we talked about fan girling, which is sexist in a comment,
but essentially um the idea that you get really obsessive
with the character and or an idea. And this is
kind of that world of that fantasy world which also
translated into Fifts of Gray. Yes, Twilight, right, but it
(05:54):
brought that same kind of satuation, brought that for older
women and older generations that would have been the for Twilight.
I think, yeah, And I that's why I don't want
to be judgmental of that, because I think because I
don't like romance. That's why I didn't like Twilight. But
if I fan girl about so much stuff, I was
(06:17):
believe me, Harry Potter, I went and it's still still
um right, And I think for me, I'm not necessarily
all about romance, but as a person who wished to
have romance or wish for the perfect idea of romance. Um.
But I'm cynical in real life oddly enough that I'm like, yeah,
this would be awesome. Yeah, I'll take your word for it.
(06:37):
I'm just saying we will be returning to Twilight. I
love how we always bury the lead of what the
episode is about. So we're talking about no, no, no, no no,
I love it. We're talking about women and monsters and
kind of this this trope and this attraction of it
seems and a lot of our media women and monsters, right,
vampires being one of those. And before we get into it,
(07:01):
trigger warnings were I mean, this is just going to
kind of come up. We're not going to delve into it,
but lighthearted. Yeah, esque, there is one thing that I
will maybe say it's not but it's it's generally we're
just kind of mentioning these things, rape, sexual assault, and
general warning about porn and fetishes, and um, we do
(07:22):
want to be careful to not judge any consensual, safe,
healthy things that people are into, right and again, and
we'll be talking more and more about this with like
the b d s M and bondage. But everything has
to do with consent and communication in being an adult
who can consent legally. Yes, um, so let's get into it.
(07:47):
I'm so excited. Even if there's no sexual attraction. It's
hard to deny after looking at our pop culture that
we don't find monsters, especially the more human esque humanoid
ones appealing. People writing about the popularity of monsters point
to their relatability. They're different than us humans here, but
(08:08):
we can see ourselves in them, and a lot of
us can connect with that feeling of being outcasts. Right,
you want to be the underdog that comes out on top. Yes, Yes,
we love an underdog. And like I've said many times,
I think horror movies are great mirrors to reflect back
what we as a society have hang ups around. Um
and something similar can be said around monsters. They embody
(08:31):
both fear and desirability, and fear around desirability and really
doesn't that sound like we're describing attitudes around sex. I mean,
I will say for me, and it's not exactly a
monster monster, but like Dexter uh huh. His character was
intriguing to me because it had a bit of my
biggest fear of who I could be. Oh really right, yeah,
(08:52):
getting up? Are you a little nervous? Now? Are you
a little nervous? Because he reflects to a lot about
trauma and has But at the same time, Kada is
that guy that as the monster you want to make
better somehow. Yeah. Yeah, it's a really interesting dichotomy. I
was trying to explain to a friend after perhaps one
(09:14):
too many tea glasses of wine at five am. Um, yes,
this is after we karaokee. This is why I can't
hang with you past like am we had to wait
for our pizza to um. And I was just explaining
to her she does this thing where she becomes contrary
when she's drunk. Um, And she was picking a fight
(09:36):
with me, but she was like, I don't understand why
you like the Winner Soldier so much because his hair
parts so weird. And I'm like, it has nothing to
do with looks. It's all about the trauma. He represents right,
and that's very true. Anyway, we're getting away from the point.
I'm so sorry. No, no, there's so many examples of this,
so many, Um, Beauty and the Beast, Dracula, Twilight, Buffy
(09:58):
the Vampire Slayer, Vampire Diaries, True Blood. Although there's a
lot of attraction going on in True Blood, they have
all the monsters. In True Blood you have from like
Werewolves two which is to vampires too, Ferries. Yeah, I
guess that's not really a monster is actually they turned
out to be monsters in True True Blood? Oh dear,
(10:20):
I mean that makes sense. I included. I just wanted
to include that because they think in True Blood it's
just generally a lot of attraction desirability, but there are
a lot of monsters, and they're all the whole like
idea of saving that one, Like what is that innocent character? Yeah,
she's kind of the innocent virgin that they're trying to
(10:42):
take care of. All of them are fighting over her,
one pure, very white, very blonde girl with all the
monsters around her, and how she attracts those people. That's
part of our sexuality as well. To me, it's absolutely
a part of this for sure. Um, Shape of Water
is a big recent one Venom, which apparently caused a
lot of excitement for some folks. I can't remember it's called.
(11:02):
There's a name for it, but because I was gonna say,
Tom Hardy, right, yeah, in the story, I've never seen
this movie, but double Hardys. Oh, I've seen it in
an embarrassing amount of times because of my parody that
I'm making. Yes, it's all for oh well you will
be so good. Um. And it's slightly different for this
(11:24):
example of Venom because this was the audience being attracted
to the monster as opposed to like in the movie.
I think it's an interpretation from the audience. But I
want to concluded Tom Hardy, Yeah, but there's a even
the It was big enough that the company that produced this,
which I believe is Sony, Um, they released a trailer
(11:45):
after the movie came out that painted it as a
rum com. It was that big of a kidding me. No,
and it's great, It's it's great. I guess I need
to watch it. I have not seen anything. I mean, yes,
but it's not good. But you know, apologies to anyone
who likes me about there. I mean but I mean yes,
I mean do you do know what you want to do?
(12:06):
I'm just a kind of warn you. It's fun, but
perhaps not okay. Older movies were likely to include a
less human looking creature lusting after a human woman, like
King Kong. I think there is something different about these
old school monster movies too, because they were less about
female desire and how we view it and more about
the male gaze. And we're almost entirely written by men.
(12:29):
It's like male creatures assaulting women, right. I guess if
you think about how Dracula has changed over time, like
he was really big monster, pointy year guy, and now
it's all of a sudden, this beautiful man like listens,
doesn't listen well corn Twilight, he listens. Sorry, he sparkles. Yeah,
(12:51):
that that was That wasn't the scene. I laughed, but
I almost laughed at that. That wasn't like a laughable scene.
I laughed when he walked in and smelled Bella for
the first time and he made that faces they covered
his nose. I just didn't know what's going on. I
know it's funny anyway. If if we can include fan fiction,
which everyone knows I'm I'm want to do, it's everywhere
Harry Potter, which is my specialty. There are irresistible were wolves,
(13:16):
vampires vila. Um, it's more like they can't resist the
human character they are infatuated infatuated with most of the time,
which doesn't really and in the books the centaurs are
are seen as sexual objects like the women, like the
girls are aremagly. I tried it to them. It doesn't
show them much so much in the movie books they do. Yeah,
video games have some interesting examples where a player can
(13:39):
choose to pursue a relationship with a non human. I
still don't get that. Oh I've done it, I know.
I mean like my friend who plays the video games,
he does it too, and I'm like, why, Okay, here
we go. Um. So usually in this case it's an alien,
not of the monster variety. But you know, depending on
your take of aliens, I guess anyway. Um, I always
(14:01):
went for Garris are Li Area, both of whom are alien.
When playing the human female character in Mass Effect. It's
like a foreign language to me to the Mass Effect players. Um.
There's a game called Coming Out on Top, which is
about queer folks exploring their sexuality, where you can opt
for a goldfish as a sexual partner, um as one
of many paths, many many pass um. It's really hard
(14:23):
to describe. Why why why a goldfish? I mean, I
think it's just about options. Um. That's the same with
you know, mass affect and Garris. I liked his voice
and he seemed even even cute. It was all about personnel,
his personality. I got you, I got you. And then
there is monster porn our cryptozoological rotica, which generally involves
(14:46):
a human woman having sexual encounters with some type of creature.
And this is actually largely written by women. Really, there
is perhaps a surprising amount of science looking to why
this is a thing, or perhaps it's not surprising at all. Um.
The current consensus is it has to do with usually
women wanting to explore a wider variety of erotic experiences
(15:09):
on the internet porn side of it, though, one mystery
German dude has produced almost all of the C creature
porn that exists, so he does all the tentaical porn.
I don't think it's tentical porn. I think it's more
like creature from the Black Lagoon because, um, when the
company that makes the C creature outfit that is almost
always featured in these porn videos. Were asked about it
(15:30):
um and and told you know, hey, did you know
that your sea creature all this porno? They responded, quote,
we did not know that our c creature costume was
being used in pornographic films. We hope the actors find
the costume comfortable, easy to wear, and that the audience
enjoys the artistic beauty of the costume. That is the
most generic like um company like corporate answer, that's pretty happy.
(15:56):
I enjoy it unbiased, like, oh yeah, it was fantastic.
We like and you can appreciate that. Due to calls
that it promoted bestiality and brutality, Amazon and other websites
took down some monster point, including that big Foot one
everyone always uses as an example. I think probably most
of you have seen it or heard of it in passing.
(16:17):
Even if you don't know it bad. I don't want
to look it up. It's just popular. I read it.
I wouldn't be ashamed. My head. It's interesting, like I
don't understand, like I didn't know this was an option?
YEA very naive right now? Well I usually feel that way.
So it's good to happen at first I wasn't going
(16:38):
to include robots. Oh what a fun sentence that is.
But then I got to thinking about the symbolism and
the alien movies of the Android trying to kill Ripley
in the first one and the newer ones. How David Um,
who's an android like always falls in love for the
lead female character and or wants to kill her despite
(17:00):
being a robot that shouldn't in this in this movie
shouldn't have those feelings Um, and all the hubbub about
how hot the robot was and lost his face the
new Netflix sauce in his face. Okay, so I think
he related but different? I mean, would that include like
Blade Runner. Aren't they all like some have Android? Yeah, yeah,
(17:20):
I guess so. I guess so, and they have creation
of life and that becomes problematic because they have created
life somehow. Is that right? I've not watched it fully,
but I know people are really big fans of this, Yes,
and they love this idea. And the last one had
Ryan Gosling, who was a beautiful, beautiful man playing a
beautiful beautiful robot. Right. I was on the Ryan Gosling
chain way before me. I was. I was nine years old. Hey, young,
(17:44):
Hercules had a big crush. Oh that's right, he was
all there episode What if I told you I liked
him from Mickey mouse Club? Oh no, you're right. Oh no,
I don't want to know the truth in this world.
But I mean, I guess that would be like the
objectification objectification of robots, right, Yeah, I think there's that
(18:08):
could be a hole and I would love to talk
about that as well a different episode, but just them
like they're you but not quite right, Like there's something
I better patorus about it. Kind of unpredictable. Yeah, So
those those are a lot of the examples, and um,
we have a lot more to discuss, but first we're
gonna pause for a quick fick for work from our sponsor,
(18:41):
and we're back, Thank you. Sponsored. We're not the only
ones who are curious about this, or I'm not. I mean,
Samantha's just kind of just learning. This is a fascinating topic,
so let's keep going, okay. Psychologists think that it in
part has to do with the allure and thrill of
the unknown. There's also an inherent poward dynamic, a submissive
(19:01):
dominant layer that some people are attracted to. On top
of that, monsters can often represent repressed sexuality, especially things
that are taboo or perverse, and sexual desire. Monsters can
represent raw animal passion and also often exemplify exaggerated masculine traits.
Can be exciting and different, and sometimes people are attracted
(19:24):
to that danger kind of like we were just talking
about something else. I found said. Early examples of this,
especially in children's movies like Beauty and the Beast, were
meant as almost moral tales of male predatory behavior and
gender roles in scripts. So men in this case are
animalistic with insatiable desires, and women either will fall victim
to that desire or have to cater to it. Right.
(19:44):
I guess you could say that about the red riding
Hood A little red riding hood. Yeah, yeah, that came
up as an example as well um Bell's love, and
in this case you can read it as femininity and
her sex makes the beast human. It redeems his animalistic,
brutish nature, brings out his best qualities. Without it, he
(20:05):
is a monster. But Gia Tolentino wrote in The New Yorker,
the half buried truth about Disney's Beauty and the Beast
is that in the end, the Prince is a let down.
I thought so too, like it's not as good as
the Beast. No, Like, it's not even that for me.
It was for a lot of people because you do
spend the whole movie with this character and then it's
like a blonde ponytail dude. Right wait. I just remember thinking, no,
(20:33):
you like the goofy manner. I guess I think I
was just I'm thinking about the scene where she's teaching
him how to eat correct and he's like, oh, it
was always like a big bumbling guy who stopped and he
he was like, well, thank you. Yes. I think it's
just you spend time like it's kind of odd at
the end. Here is this character and it just feels
(20:54):
jarring kind of um, and if it is like the
top search result if you type in Beauty and the
Beast Prince, and it's like, it's a let down. So
a lot of people think that. And there's also Stockholm
syndrome involved in that. That particular example can also be
interpreted as Bell sacrificing her freedom and the Beast sacrificing
(21:15):
what made him different. M and then um kind of related.
Buffy has that, and I love Buffy. Damn Parcelor but
it has that problematic thing with Angel and Buffy where
the seconds after they have sex he becomes a mindless
monster and she loses him. Um. And then there's also
(21:36):
the problematic thing of the attempted rape of Buffy by Spike.
Don't they get together in the end? They get together
at some points over I can't remember how it ends.
I just remember that being a thing. They do get together.
So he tried to rape her, but then they got together. Yeah,
that is so many things. And then then this is
a whole cautionary tell if you have sex, it's going
(21:57):
to be really bad. The guy who you like will
be an ass. Yes, that was you were going, I
got you, I got you. Yeah. And then there's a book.
I think it's written by rol Stein. Um. It was
definitely one of those teen thriller slash horror riders that
I love. Wrote an adult book, adult novel which included
(22:21):
this like monster character that I think came from incests somehow,
and he's he's a horrible man, horrible thing with no mind,
and the mother's trying to control him or whatever, and
then he goes out and eats people. But one of
the scenes he's raping a woman that he's essentially eating
at the same time on a carnival ride. I believe
it was really like what is going on? And of
(22:44):
course the woman who was eaten was the slut of
the characters, so that was like that was like four
college friends and the virginal not a word where the
virginal one was like protected somehow, but the slut character
was one that ended up being eaten and raped as
though she deserved it, and she tried to I think,
(23:07):
entice him. It has a way to try to get
away from him, as if like giving what he wanted,
what the monster wanted, she could maybe live, but she
of course doesn't. I just remember that being like, oh
my god, what is happening? So he kind of took
all the tropes of the cliches of monsters and films
and all of that, and women within monsters and books.
It's kind of like, what what the hell just happened?
(23:29):
It was really weird. Yeah, that that sounds a lot
like have you ever seen Cavin in the Woods? Yes,
it sounds like that, but Kevin and the Woods is
a parody. Um. Also, when Samantha brought this up in
the studio that there was an arl Stein, I don't
book me and super producer Andrew got so excited started
explaining what it was. They were like, oh no, that
(23:49):
sounds terrible. I need to go back and make sure.
Either it was arl Stein, maybe Christopher Pike, but it
was definitely one of those. And the reason I read
it was because I love them both so much growing up.
You know who doesn't love the Fear Straight Chronicles It's
fantastic or all of the goodn't like Goosebumps as much.
I like the Fear Street, I like the Witches. I
like the one with the two girls who go hit
(24:10):
hiking and one of the girls as the murdyrer. But
you think it's the guy that they picked up the
entire time that he knew had to do a good
plot twist, twist twist. Some studies have shown that despite
finding the possibility or reality of real life rape horrifying
and traumatic, up to six of women admit to fantasizing
about having sex. I guess there will, particularly with monsters,
(24:34):
and we sort of touched on this. It depends on
publishing schedules, um, but I think it's super complicated, and I,
along with the study authors, want to emphatically drive home,
this is not me that women want to be raped
in real life. No, no, no, no, not coerced, forced,
nothing of the sort. Um Like some men disgustingly and
(24:56):
excitedly claimed when these survey results came out, it's um,
there's a lot of reasons behind it. But like we
were saying, they are too consenting. Adults can agree to
like plays or scenes as we all learn the terms
for yes as in fact in what you do in
the privacy of your own home with your partner or
(25:17):
whomever you do with that day, and you have an
established actual play things consent, consenting thing you want, whatever
it does, and that's fine. But once again, they're still
consent and play. Whether it's like there's a time in
frame at whatever scenario you've got for yourself. UM. And
I have a lot of my own theories on why
(25:38):
this is, and I think, like most things, there's a
lot going on and everybody is different. But um science
people who studied this and conducted the survey think it
has to do UM with with both people who generally
(25:59):
take charge and things and find it a relief to
not take charge of something, to like relinquish control or
responsibility um. And then there is also women feeling like
she can't say yes to something she wants are simultaneously
fearing and desiring sex um. Are wanting her beauty and
(26:20):
desirable desirability, which is our currency in this society, confirmed
as irresistible. And these are like fantasies again like just
to drive the home its fantasies um. Some psychologists think
has to do with the woman fearing emasculating the man
and promoting violence and diminishing her desirability if refusing sex.
(26:41):
And yes, all of this is very hetero research um.
And a couple of things to add here is the
women who reported having these fantasies also reported higher levels
of consensual fantasies and higher levels of openness and positivity
when it comes to sex as opposed to the women
who didn't. Because of that, some psychologists this fantasy might
be an underlying desire to explore more sexual scenarios like
(27:04):
bondage or some other kink. Again. Again, again, do not
take this as women secretly want for sex, because that
is not a thing. It is not ever ever a thing,
not a thing. You will know from the mouth of
the woman if she wants to have sex, yes, yes, um.
And because we are going to discuss bondage and um
(27:29):
fetishes the partner yes, mouth of partner consent on all parties,
on every party. And again, fantasy different fantasy, and the
likelihood of someone acting out their fantasies are going to
be still in the conversation, right and communication mm hmm. Yeah,
(27:51):
So just keep that in mind. Uh, and we will
be returning returning to that a little bit in upcoming episodes.
So distant psychologists take issue with the term rape fantasy
to saying it should be more accurately described as consensual
ravishment or agreed to aggression. And again, I think this
is a lot to do with our own, um past
(28:12):
socidal ideas of being manly or masculine. And again this
is very heteronormative. But if you look at things like
The fountain Head, there's a pretty intense scene of this
guy coming after her, who is the main protagonist and
the hero of the book, with this girl who is
snobby enrich that gets taken by him, and the same
(28:34):
idea with gone with a win when he picks her
up and ravishes her essentially and he feels regret the
next day that is not the same thing, and for
some reason it is romanticized. So thatfore the idea of
having a rep butler in your life sweeping your way
as opposed to, hey, this is any other the guy
tried to touch me on punch him in the throat
and thick, I guess I can't say that, I think
(28:57):
so okay, well I just did m But I mean
that's the difference is like this is a whole picture,
and again breaking down what is norm and what is
not norm, and then breaking down what is acceptable and
not acceptable. Yeah, um, and I know I was reading
some other studies about how, um, there's a fear of
(29:18):
communicating like what you want if it's not quote unquote
normal when it comes to sex, if it is kind
of a fantasy or something that might be a little
um more scaye. So it is hard to get good
numbers around it because you know, people are a little
so it can be a little shy. Well. And also
there's still that shape factor that happens, as we talked
(29:40):
about many many times, and whether or not we can
say what we want because will you look on me
with shame? What do I have guilt about these feelings? Whatever? What? Not? Um,
there's a huge cloud over everyone, um with whatever they
think is not normal based on their experiences or their
environment or their social ideas. Um. And so therefore they
(30:01):
would rather just sit in silence that actually communicate and
be open. Yeah. Yeah, but I think things that are
changing slowly. Yes, there are a lot of dudes and
some women who like to argue that the attraction of
monsters thing demonstrates that toxic masculinity doesn't exist and that
it's what women really want. And also no, also no,
(30:25):
like what, yeah, I just saw that in a lot
of places, and I was like, Okay, well no, but
I want to address it. Side issue female sea creatures
giving up power and family to be with human men,
because I've seen that in a couple of things Allan,
you are the Little Mermaid. The related side issue the
quote monster hotness gap. I did not coin that, or
(30:47):
the fact that generally speaking, female monsters have to be
hot and overly sexualized, but this isn't as often the
case with women and male monsters. Just think of Monster
Halloween teams from men versus women. Yeah, like, I mean
you and I are talking. Also the fact that when
we look at the movie with Megan fox. Oh, Jennifer's body. Yeah,
(31:10):
Jennifer's body. She's a monster, but she's this hot ass
monster that comes around and he knows seduce his boys. Um.
And many of the times you see these monsters being
really beautiful females and then transforming into this ugly thing
later on in time monster within and right right, um
(31:31):
as where the monsters of men are just out there.
And I mean, have you ever heard of the reverse
Beauty and the beast? Beauty and the hunk, hunking the beast?
Not beauty and the beasts? So I we hunk and
the beast, And no it shouldn't beauty and the honk.
That's just like that's the reality show happening on the beach. Right. Um.
(31:58):
I just dated myself by using the term, didn't I
I don't know. I think hunks still has a thing,
I think so. Um. There's also a female monsters sympathy gap.
We're more likely as audiences to sympathize with male monsters
than we are with female monsters. I wonder why that
could be. Also, female monsters are almost always single. And
(32:20):
I almost went into a huge tangent about it, but
then I was like, you gotta range almost always go
after their best friends guys. I've noticed that a lot
like they go after something that is right, you know,
supposed to be priority for females, being caddy as it were. Um,
some of the things we're talking about here can and
sometimes do fall under the umbrella of fetish or kinks,
but not always. I do want to mention that a
(32:43):
Shape of Water themed dildo on Etsy keeps selling out
and after it's Oscar when it's sold out in twenty deepness,
I'm not gonna lie I've never seen that movie just
because I couldn't understand the premise, and I get it.
I get it. By the same time, I was like,
there's a really interesting take on that movie about how
(33:06):
it's supposed to be you know, romantic. But at the
same time, the director's skim adults for right. He kind
of has publicly looked down on people fetishizing. Um, the
monster are not even fetishizing, but just kind of romanticizing.
And but but at the same time, it's like, this
(33:26):
is what the movie is. It's it's weird. I saw
that came up a lot when I was researching this,
but it wasn't exactly what we're talking about so I
didn't include a lot of it. Um. I've always thought
this whole thing had something to do with how women
and society at large are taught to fear female sexual
desire and pleasure, going back to like the taboo thing,
(33:47):
so a lot of us have difficulty expressing it and
also suffer from low self esteem. Into a sexy, powerful
vampire who literally cannot resist you, who is so in
love heavy quotes with you, he watches usually bit Night
and wants to hear your every thought. Creepy. But I
found some pieces that argued it might have to do
with marginalized people emphasizing with creatures on the outside of society.
(34:10):
There's some criticism in that vein to that rather than
depict sex outside of our sis, hetero noorms, pop culture
ops for monsters instead. Yeah, I found that interesting. And
related to this are more modern take on more respectful,
consensual monsters with women. Pairings and attraction to them is
sometimes credited to our desire to see stories that allow
(34:32):
women more sexual agency, that depict more queer lead relationships
and or depict more non white leading relationships, and Hollywood's
resistance to that because these are still straight, white ladies
falling from monsters as opposed to doing that. But like
we're craving something else so much then what we've seen
that I guess for monsters or the way we're going
(34:54):
with it, Okay, something else. I read claim that vampires
and werewolves, often especially in older works, were layered with
homosexual overtones and thus a fear of spreading homosexuality. Yes, yes, um.
And I also want to add that I think writing
fan fiction that involves sex with the monster that isn't
consensual is often a way of working through complicated feelings
(35:18):
around sex or past sexual experiences. Is easier to think
of someone as a straight at monster than a human
person who victimized you. That's just my theory about some
of it, not all of it at all, but some
of it. And another theory I have, because I have
thought of episode, is that all of this might have
to do with male writers grappling with the societal scripts
(35:40):
that tell them that they can't control their desires and
women will love them no matter their monstrous attitude. Anyway,
Are that that the love of a woman will make
them better? Love of a pure woman? Yes, I will
make them pure as well, exactly so, there's a lot
going on here. Um, but we're not done. But first
(36:01):
we have one more quick break for a word from
our sponsor, the Vampire st and we're back. Thank you sponsor,
And we are back with Vampire Vanpa. Because I didn't
(36:23):
want to look at them specifically for a second and
I was. I asked you before we did this if
you had any kind of monster attraction things going on,
and you said the one thing that I've always really
really liked our vampire stories, and I've loved them from
the beginning. And this is why I also say I
did know about Twilight. I also loved um Interview with
a Vampire that was one of my favorites. I even
(36:43):
watched the one with Jim Carrey, the really really old
school one. What is it like a comedy? Uh? Good, gosh,
it's so old was a vampire? Yes, he he transforms
into a new vampire. Oh and it was um on
rotten tomatoes but it was film. And yeah, he gets bitten.
(37:08):
I can't remember the quite premise. He gets bitten and
he's slowly transforming and it's obviously a bit of a comedy. Um.
But yeah, I even watched that one because I really
liked it. I liked the idea, Yeah, there's something to
me when you see this kind of like darkness and
defying death. I think was part of my fascination. Also,
(37:29):
Brad Pitt was beautiful. I will say this thing between
him and Kirsten Does was really really creepy and almost
did not make me happy. It definitely didn't make me happy.
But it's very sexualized. Of all, I feel like all
of the monster movies or like that type of non
human movies, vampires are the most sexualized me that anything else.
(37:50):
I would agree. I would agree with that, and that's
why we have this whole section specific Um what does
that say about me? Then? Damn? Oh no, No, you
were definitely not alone. Um. So I found a lot
of theories about why we have a fascination with vampires,
(38:11):
and one of the and while they're so sexualized, I'm
one of the first things that I ran into that
was really obvious when I read it, but I was
still sort of surprised, is that it's a replacement for sex,
because you're like exchanging bodily wods, but you're not having sex. Again,
it's someone who maybe can't resist you, who might bite
(38:33):
you at any time can offer you eternal life, eternal youth.
Um is unchanging in city. I thought that was such
a funny argument. But again, I guess that makes sense.
Like if you're you want somebody steady at commitment in
your life, then someone who could commit to you. Right
there you go a safe sex symbol. I found that argument.
(38:54):
Um the bad boy and the allure of reforming him
or the tortured sensitive soul. I do love a really
sad boy. I do too, and I don't. I have
a lot of friends that make fun of me for that,
But oh my goodness, I did. I like the tortured
artist guy. That was my thing. That on another episode
to come back to the fact that they're mesmerizing um
(39:19):
the fantasy of not having to be responsible and almost
always played by conventionally attractive actors. Although the original Dracula,
sure this is our newer Sparato was not a pretty boy. No, no,
have you seen um? As we lie in the shadows?
What we do in the what we do in the shadow?
(39:40):
I love that. I love the show. I haven't watched
the show, but I know the movie in itself. It
kind of goes back to the old school idea of like, yeah,
it's not a sexy as you think, and I do
love their takes on that. Yes, I love it any
listeners who are interested. Highly recommended good movie. Um. Twilight
is often seen is a metaphor for abstinence. Oh absolutely
(40:03):
before marriage. Edward can hardly resist Bill's sent but he
must or she will be condemned to be a monster
to putting the responsibility on the woman for the man's
desires and actions. Another example of that, um, but also
complicated by the fact that she does love him right um,
And also complicated by the fact that I suppose the
message there is premarrital sex as monstrous yeah, um, and
(40:25):
I think you're going to talk about it, but actually
he refuses to sleep with her because she wants to
be with him so badly. And I don't think ever
they've ever mentioned sex in the book or in the movie,
because well, now, I'm sorry beforehand that they don't talk
about it. Um. But she says something along the time
learned like because the whole bag, oh my god, I
can't believe I know so much of the whole back
(40:46):
and forth is that she wants to be with him
forever and she doesn't want to grow old and die
he lives or whatever, and he doesn't want her to
be a monster as he is quote unquote, um. But
she also wants to sleep with him, and she wants
to sleep with him while she's still human because she
doesn't know that things will change when she's not anymore.
And the only way he will do that is if
they get married. So he is the one that puts
(41:08):
it on her. So she gets married at eighteen eighteen,
and for some reason that it's acceptable even this day
and age, and everybody's like super excited and no one's
really creeped out by the fight. Hey, that's really weird.
But this is also that religious dance, which is the
writer was very religious, is very I don't know, and
that was part of her thing, is the pale the
(41:30):
sexual attraction. But he was such a good guy, and
it's such a good man that he makes sure that
they're married first, and the's her her reputation. It's not
yet because you know at eighteen, when you get married
in two thousand and five, it's completely normal. Um. And
I did read that part of the appeal of Edward
(41:52):
is that his love for Bella propels him to combat
his monstrous urges interest. Um. And I've said it before,
We've talked about in other episodes around stalking is not romantic.
But the romance between Bella and Edward displays many signs
that are precursors to abuse, if not outright abuse and
(42:13):
stalking and controlling behavior. Pop culture has for so long
painted that as romance, and it can be hard to
unlearn what we have taught. Like Twilight is by no
means the only offender here. This is everywhere. Right, Oh no,
it still is every day. Once again, we talked about
Gray fifty Shades of Gray, and that just happened the
(42:34):
news word just released a few years ago. Right, yeah,
I mean it's everywhere. Um, but I did want to
put that in there. We are a where that watching
someone sleep against that will perhaps super creepy. Um. One
article claimed that the popularity of Twilight and other modern
vampires um is almost entirely straight women being attracted to game. Um, okay,
(42:59):
and women being attracted to something dangerous yet safe, like
they're powerful, but they also have a lot of self control,
like they can protect you. I don't know, it's this
whole like being saved idea. Yeah, and being pure and
walking into something dangerous once again, because both Bella and
even in Trubla, that's the same idea, and in the
(43:21):
old school bram Strokers Jacula with Gary Oldman in one
no writer, UM, it's the same thing, and she's a
pure woman that comes through as an idea of saving
an Individuals say True Blood did a better job of
at least I guess because I had like, what's like
seven seasons long of exploring her sexuality a little more
(43:41):
and her being a little more demanding. She dreams that
she has a three some of them, oh yeah, it
was very stuck. But two of the vampires though, oh okay.
I I don't remember that show very well. I only
watched the first two seasons and with my friends, and
again I really like that show. But I did like Godrick.
(44:02):
I remember Godrick very vaguely, and I liked him. Alex Carscar,
I don't know who he was. He was the one that,
oh yeah, the old human character, and he was one
of the first vampires. Yes, I think it really is
a desire to see something different than what we have seen. UM.
I also wanted to include in here briefly that when
(44:24):
I was researching this, UM Some examples included things for
monsters that I found troubling, and I think there is
a layer of um able is um and misunderstanding of
mental illness that is at play, and a lot of
this UM. I just wanted to mention that I came
(44:47):
across some examples that I was like, um, um the whole,
this whole idea is so um the meaning two women
in general um and those who identified them all just
anybody who UM. I mean, there's nothing wrong in delving
into an imagining world, imaginary world where you want more
(45:07):
or you want something that is purely your fantasy. You
can think what you want. Again, I still like vampires.
I still think it's fantastic. I still like the idea
um of that kind of fantasy realm. But A, I
don't want to be stalked. B I don't want anyone
to draw blood from me. So yeah, you know what
I mean. But like, there is that fine line of
(45:31):
where do we push this idea where women become these
objects of whether it's they have to be the representation
of purity um and they should be always pure and
gentle and kind and and giving and change people, which
is my like my own personal struggle in trying to
be like I gotta help and fix people. That's not
(45:53):
a true thing, but these films oftentimes portray that as
this is the best way to be a woman, you
know what I mean, um or this is the best
way to be a good partner, and you start looking
at things like fifty Shades of Gray and understand. I
think what I do like about all these things is
it does portray that women are sexual and do desire
to have to be a part of that fantasy life
(46:16):
and to do some more exploration and that these conversations
should happen. But they do definitely like put women in
a box and you have to be careful on both
of those levels. Yeah. And also, I mean with most
media that we enjoyed, well, I don't know about most,
but a lot of media is an exaggeration of life, right,
(46:38):
Like that's why we're going is because it takes something
that maybe we feel and exaggerates it. Like superhero movies
are a great example. They're still human character. I mean,
when it's done well, they're human characters you can relate to,
and they're dealing with things we can relate to. But
on a bigger scale, like on a on a more exciting,
imaginative scale. Right, So I think that is play here
(47:01):
as well, because I mean it's just different than a
rom column. It's a little a little more dangerous. You
want something a little dangerous? Yeah, Um, so we're about
gonna wrap this up. Um, we didn't really get into
you except for you briefly, Samantha. Human monsters are like
(47:23):
dexter because I think that that is a different thing.
That is is a whole different level of like serial killer. Yeah,
and we kind of briefly touched on that with the
recent like the Ted Bundy documentary and the You on Netflix.
That is a different thing. Um, Happy to talk about
it at a future date. But basically, human sexuality is
(47:47):
complicated and is influenced and shaped by a plusora of thing. Man,
it comes out in many different forms in many different ways,
it does, indeed, And UM, we would love to hear
from listeners about your favorite monster movies. If you've written
any stories are fan fiction, UM would love to read it.
You can email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at
(48:07):
i heeart media dot com. You can also find us
on Twitter at moms Stuff Podcasts and on Instagram at
stuff I've Never told you. Thanks as always to our
super producer Andrew Howard, Mr Howard, and thanks to you
for listening stuff I've never told you. The production of
I Heart Radios how Stuff Works. For more podcasts from
I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple
Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite show
Hey, this is Annie, Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff I've
never told your protection of by High Radio. So it's Samantha.
You have talked a lot about monsters and shipping and
all of these things, which is related to what episode
(00:28):
of Bringing Back Today, But I'm not sure I've ever
asked you this. You have a favorite horror movie villain? Yeah,
I know you've never asked me that, and now we
have to think about it because villain wise, m h yeah,
you know you got your classics. We've been talking a
lot about, Like you know, I said, I really like
(00:48):
vampires like that. That's stuffing that I really do like.
But honestly, I love a good demon possession. I feel
like those are the ones that can get you the best.
At time, will say, and I'm so sad it's a
Roman Polinski film because I don't like him and I
can no longer watch this. But Rosemary's Baby, the antagonist
(01:09):
was a whole like to me, so it always but
what it was for being a horror movie to me,
that was one of the ones that still stand today
as a horror movie, you know, because a lot of
the old ones are really cheesy and you're like what
is that, right? Or you know, uh, even Jaws to
(01:30):
a certain degree, Like you're like, okay, but I feel
like things like that when it comes to an idea. Yeah,
what gets me more than anything else, right, I mean
it's upsetting how much that movie still holds up for sure. Yeah.
I'm somebody who's oddly like very competitive about things that
don't matter. Like I don't really care, but like if
(01:51):
a movie comes out and it's like Freddie versus Jason,
I have an immediate like, oh, this one should win.
And I don't know why that is, but so I
have like rankings of you know, you got your hell
Raiser and your candy Man and Freddie and Jason and
Michael and all of those people. One of the reasons
I was thinking about this is I was talking about
with some friends of ours this past weekend. It's getting
dead by daylight I think that's what it's called. But
(02:13):
you get to pick like a popular villain and everyone
else is trying to survive, and you're, you know, Michael
trying to kill them and you have to survive till
daylight or kill them all to win, depending on who
you are. I really like Samaraw from the Ring, the
Original Ring. I really like Pyramid and from Silent Hill
(02:34):
the game, but you know it's also represented in the movie.
You much more messed up. Perhaps well I don't know,
it's messed up all around. That's not my next watch list.
Oh gosh, I'm interested to hear what you think. Yeah,
for sure. I mean there's really if you can do
a good villain in a Halloween movie, even if it's
(02:55):
kind of cheesier, kind of fun funny like that can
that really is what makes said a lot of times,
you've got to have that villain that either really scares
you and or is somehow like you can see they're
they're not maybe their side of it, but kind of
like their origins to where you kind of understand. Or
they might not even have one at all and that's
even terrifying. Or they're funny. Are there something about them
(03:17):
that's kind of like pretty with his puns or whatever. Ye, yes, yes,
I've thought about this a lot. Link But yes, all
of that being said, you wanted to bring back this
episode about women and their their love of monsters, so
please enjoy. Hey this is Annie and I'm Samantha and
(03:45):
welcome to stuff and I'll never told your protection of
I Heart Radio's house stuff works. Okay, all right, here
we go today. We are finally tackling a topic I
have wanted to talk about for a long time. I
(04:05):
believe in the first ever episode that I was on
that wasn't kind of an intro episode, I mentioned that
I wanted to talk about this, right. I think you
told me that pretty quickly as one of your ideas
when we were discussing the future a sementy and I'm like,
I don't know if I can contribute to this, but
I will be there to listen. Perfect, Yes, And I've
wanted to talk about this, like just not even on podcasts,
(04:28):
but just a woman about town, a woman in southtown,
even else, I'm a woman about town since Twilight was
at its cheek because I I was just so kind
of befuddled and intrigued about what was happening. So did
you watch any of the Twilight? I watched the first one.
(04:49):
And I'm not here to make fun of what anyone enjoys. Um,
I just wasn't right. I went in blind and I
laughed at a part I'm not sure I was supposed
to laugh at. This movie was kind of laughing. It
was the first movie and this young girl behind me
threatened to cut me in an alleyway, and I was like,
I want to talk about this one day. I'll have
(05:10):
a podcast of my own and I can I can
delve into your So I was in the middle of
the Twilight frenzy as well, and I was much older
than the majority of the Twilight people who Twilight fans.
I think the fandom um and I will say it
was really enjoyable, and I did like it because it
was an easy read and it was really like mind
(05:31):
numbing in the sense of like you don't have to
think too hard into it. And as any other thing,
we talked about fan girling, which is sexist in a comment,
but essentially um the idea that you get really obsessive
with the character and or an idea. And this is
kind of that world of that fantasy world which also
translated into Fifts of Gray. Yes, Twilight, right, but it
(05:54):
brought that same kind of satuation, brought that for older
women and older generations that would have been the for Twilight.
I think, yeah, And I that's why I don't want
to be judgmental of that, because I think because I
don't like romance. That's why I didn't like Twilight. But
if I fan girl about so much stuff, I was
(06:17):
believe me, Harry Potter, I went and it's still still
um right, And I think for me, I'm not necessarily
all about romance, but as a person who wished to
have romance or wish for the perfect idea of romance. Um.
But I'm cynical in real life oddly enough that I'm like, yeah,
this would be awesome. Yeah, I'll take your word for it.
(06:37):
I'm just saying we will be returning to Twilight. I
love how we always bury the lead of what the
episode is about. So we're talking about no, no, no, no no,
I love it. We're talking about women and monsters and
kind of this this trope and this attraction of it
seems and a lot of our media women and monsters, right,
vampires being one of those. And before we get into it,
(07:01):
trigger warnings were I mean, this is just going to
kind of come up. We're not going to delve into it,
but lighthearted. Yeah, esque, there is one thing that I
will maybe say it's not but it's it's generally we're
just kind of mentioning these things, rape, sexual assault, and
general warning about porn and fetishes, and um, we do
(07:22):
want to be careful to not judge any consensual, safe,
healthy things that people are into, right and again, and
we'll be talking more and more about this with like
the b d s M and bondage. But everything has
to do with consent and communication in being an adult
who can consent legally. Yes, um, so let's get into it.
(07:47):
I'm so excited. Even if there's no sexual attraction. It's
hard to deny after looking at our pop culture that
we don't find monsters, especially the more human esque humanoid
ones appealing. People writing about the popularity of monsters point
to their relatability. They're different than us humans here, but
(08:08):
we can see ourselves in them, and a lot of
us can connect with that feeling of being outcasts. Right,
you want to be the underdog that comes out on top. Yes, Yes,
we love an underdog. And like I've said many times,
I think horror movies are great mirrors to reflect back
what we as a society have hang ups around. Um
and something similar can be said around monsters. They embody
(08:31):
both fear and desirability, and fear around desirability and really
doesn't that sound like we're describing attitudes around sex. I mean,
I will say for me, and it's not exactly a
monster monster, but like Dexter uh huh. His character was
intriguing to me because it had a bit of my
biggest fear of who I could be. Oh really right, yeah,
(08:52):
getting up? Are you a little nervous? Now? Are you
a little nervous? Because he reflects to a lot about
trauma and has But at the same time, Kada is
that guy that as the monster you want to make
better somehow. Yeah. Yeah, it's a really interesting dichotomy. I
was trying to explain to a friend after perhaps one
(09:14):
too many tea glasses of wine at five am. Um, yes,
this is after we karaokee. This is why I can't
hang with you past like am we had to wait
for our pizza to um. And I was just explaining
to her she does this thing where she becomes contrary
when she's drunk. Um, And she was picking a fight
(09:36):
with me, but she was like, I don't understand why
you like the Winner Soldier so much because his hair
parts so weird. And I'm like, it has nothing to
do with looks. It's all about the trauma. He represents right,
and that's very true. Anyway, we're getting away from the point.
I'm so sorry. No, no, there's so many examples of this,
so many, Um, Beauty and the Beast, Dracula, Twilight, Buffy
(09:58):
the Vampire Slayer, Vampire Diaries, True Blood. Although there's a
lot of attraction going on in True Blood, they have
all the monsters. In True Blood you have from like
Werewolves two which is to vampires too, Ferries. Yeah, I
guess that's not really a monster is actually they turned
out to be monsters in True True Blood? Oh dear,
(10:20):
I mean that makes sense. I included. I just wanted
to include that because they think in True Blood it's
just generally a lot of attraction desirability, but there are
a lot of monsters, and they're all the whole like
idea of saving that one, Like what is that innocent character? Yeah,
she's kind of the innocent virgin that they're trying to
(10:42):
take care of. All of them are fighting over her,
one pure, very white, very blonde girl with all the
monsters around her, and how she attracts those people. That's
part of our sexuality as well. To me, it's absolutely
a part of this for sure. Um, Shape of Water
is a big recent one Venom, which apparently caused a
lot of excitement for some folks. I can't remember it's called.
(11:02):
There's a name for it, but because I was gonna say,
Tom Hardy, right, yeah, in the story, I've never seen
this movie, but double Hardys. Oh, I've seen it in
an embarrassing amount of times because of my parody that
I'm making. Yes, it's all for oh well you will
be so good. Um. And it's slightly different for this
(11:24):
example of Venom because this was the audience being attracted
to the monster as opposed to like in the movie.
I think it's an interpretation from the audience. But I
want to concluded Tom Hardy, Yeah, but there's a even
the It was big enough that the company that produced this,
which I believe is Sony, Um, they released a trailer
(11:45):
after the movie came out that painted it as a
rum com. It was that big of a kidding me. No,
and it's great, It's it's great. I guess I need
to watch it. I have not seen anything. I mean, yes,
but it's not good. But you know, apologies to anyone
who likes me about there. I mean but I mean yes,
I mean do you do know what you want to do?
(12:06):
I'm just a kind of warn you. It's fun, but
perhaps not okay. Older movies were likely to include a
less human looking creature lusting after a human woman, like
King Kong. I think there is something different about these
old school monster movies too, because they were less about
female desire and how we view it and more about
the male gaze. And we're almost entirely written by men.
(12:29):
It's like male creatures assaulting women, right. I guess if
you think about how Dracula has changed over time, like
he was really big monster, pointy year guy, and now
it's all of a sudden, this beautiful man like listens,
doesn't listen well corn Twilight, he listens. Sorry, he sparkles. Yeah,
(12:51):
that that was That wasn't the scene. I laughed, but
I almost laughed at that. That wasn't like a laughable scene.
I laughed when he walked in and smelled Bella for
the first time and he made that faces they covered
his nose. I just didn't know what's going on. I
know it's funny anyway. If if we can include fan fiction,
which everyone knows I'm I'm want to do, it's everywhere
Harry Potter, which is my specialty. There are irresistible were wolves,
(13:16):
vampires vila. Um, it's more like they can't resist the
human character they are infatuated infatuated with most of the time,
which doesn't really and in the books the centaurs are
are seen as sexual objects like the women, like the
girls are aremagly. I tried it to them. It doesn't
show them much so much in the movie books they do. Yeah,
video games have some interesting examples where a player can
(13:39):
choose to pursue a relationship with a non human. I
still don't get that. Oh I've done it, I know.
I mean like my friend who plays the video games,
he does it too, and I'm like, why, Okay, here
we go. Um. So usually in this case it's an alien,
not of the monster variety. But you know, depending on
your take of aliens, I guess anyway. Um, I always
(14:01):
went for Garris are Li Area, both of whom are alien.
When playing the human female character in Mass Effect. It's
like a foreign language to me to the Mass Effect players. Um.
There's a game called Coming Out on Top, which is
about queer folks exploring their sexuality, where you can opt
for a goldfish as a sexual partner, um as one
of many paths, many many pass um. It's really hard
(14:23):
to describe. Why why why a goldfish? I mean, I
think it's just about options. Um. That's the same with
you know, mass affect and Garris. I liked his voice
and he seemed even even cute. It was all about personnel,
his personality. I got you, I got you. And then
there is monster porn our cryptozoological rotica, which generally involves
(14:46):
a human woman having sexual encounters with some type of creature.
And this is actually largely written by women. Really, there
is perhaps a surprising amount of science looking to why
this is a thing, or perhaps it's not surprising at all. Um.
The current consensus is it has to do with usually
women wanting to explore a wider variety of erotic experiences
(15:09):
on the internet porn side of it, though, one mystery
German dude has produced almost all of the C creature
porn that exists, so he does all the tentaical porn.
I don't think it's tentical porn. I think it's more
like creature from the Black Lagoon because, um, when the
company that makes the C creature outfit that is almost
always featured in these porn videos. Were asked about it
(15:30):
um and and told you know, hey, did you know
that your sea creature all this porno? They responded, quote,
we did not know that our c creature costume was
being used in pornographic films. We hope the actors find
the costume comfortable, easy to wear, and that the audience
enjoys the artistic beauty of the costume. That is the
most generic like um company like corporate answer, that's pretty happy.
(15:56):
I enjoy it unbiased, like, oh yeah, it was fantastic.
We like and you can appreciate that. Due to calls
that it promoted bestiality and brutality, Amazon and other websites
took down some monster point, including that big Foot one
everyone always uses as an example. I think probably most
of you have seen it or heard of it in passing.
(16:17):
Even if you don't know it bad. I don't want
to look it up. It's just popular. I read it.
I wouldn't be ashamed. My head. It's interesting, like I
don't understand, like I didn't know this was an option?
YEA very naive right now? Well I usually feel that way.
So it's good to happen at first I wasn't going
(16:38):
to include robots. Oh what a fun sentence that is.
But then I got to thinking about the symbolism and
the alien movies of the Android trying to kill Ripley
in the first one and the newer ones. How David Um,
who's an android like always falls in love for the
lead female character and or wants to kill her despite
(17:00):
being a robot that shouldn't in this in this movie
shouldn't have those feelings Um, and all the hubbub about
how hot the robot was and lost his face the
new Netflix sauce in his face. Okay, so I think
he related but different? I mean, would that include like
Blade Runner. Aren't they all like some have Android? Yeah, yeah,
(17:20):
I guess so. I guess so, and they have creation
of life and that becomes problematic because they have created
life somehow. Is that right? I've not watched it fully,
but I know people are really big fans of this, Yes,
and they love this idea. And the last one had
Ryan Gosling, who was a beautiful, beautiful man playing a
beautiful beautiful robot. Right. I was on the Ryan Gosling
chain way before me. I was. I was nine years old. Hey, young,
(17:44):
Hercules had a big crush. Oh that's right, he was
all there episode What if I told you I liked
him from Mickey mouse Club? Oh no, you're right. Oh no,
I don't want to know the truth in this world.
But I mean, I guess that would be like the
objectification objectification of robots, right, Yeah, I think there's that
(18:08):
could be a hole and I would love to talk
about that as well a different episode, but just them
like they're you but not quite right, Like there's something
I better patorus about it. Kind of unpredictable. Yeah, So
those those are a lot of the examples, and um,
we have a lot more to discuss, but first we're
gonna pause for a quick fick for work from our sponsor,
(18:41):
and we're back, Thank you. Sponsored. We're not the only
ones who are curious about this, or I'm not. I mean,
Samantha's just kind of just learning. This is a fascinating topic,
so let's keep going, okay. Psychologists think that it in
part has to do with the allure and thrill of
the unknown. There's also an inherent poward dynamic, a submissive
(19:01):
dominant layer that some people are attracted to. On top
of that, monsters can often represent repressed sexuality, especially things
that are taboo or perverse, and sexual desire. Monsters can
represent raw animal passion and also often exemplify exaggerated masculine traits.
Can be exciting and different, and sometimes people are attracted
(19:24):
to that danger kind of like we were just talking
about something else. I found said. Early examples of this,
especially in children's movies like Beauty and the Beast, were
meant as almost moral tales of male predatory behavior and
gender roles in scripts. So men in this case are
animalistic with insatiable desires, and women either will fall victim
to that desire or have to cater to it. Right.
(19:44):
I guess you could say that about the red riding
Hood A little red riding hood. Yeah, yeah, that came
up as an example as well um Bell's love, and
in this case you can read it as femininity and
her sex makes the beast human. It redeems his animalistic,
brutish nature, brings out his best qualities. Without it, he
(20:05):
is a monster. But Gia Tolentino wrote in The New Yorker,
the half buried truth about Disney's Beauty and the Beast
is that in the end, the Prince is a let down.
I thought so too, like it's not as good as
the Beast. No, Like, it's not even that for me.
It was for a lot of people because you do
spend the whole movie with this character and then it's
like a blonde ponytail dude. Right wait. I just remember thinking, no,
(20:33):
you like the goofy manner. I guess I think I
was just I'm thinking about the scene where she's teaching
him how to eat correct and he's like, oh, it
was always like a big bumbling guy who stopped and he
he was like, well, thank you. Yes. I think it's
just you spend time like it's kind of odd at
the end. Here is this character and it just feels
(20:54):
jarring kind of um, and if it is like the
top search result if you type in Beauty and the
Beast Prince, and it's like, it's a let down. So
a lot of people think that. And there's also Stockholm
syndrome involved in that. That particular example can also be
interpreted as Bell sacrificing her freedom and the Beast sacrificing
(21:15):
what made him different. M and then um kind of related.
Buffy has that, and I love Buffy. Damn Parcelor but
it has that problematic thing with Angel and Buffy where
the seconds after they have sex he becomes a mindless
monster and she loses him. Um. And then there's also
(21:36):
the problematic thing of the attempted rape of Buffy by Spike.
Don't they get together in the end? They get together
at some points over I can't remember how it ends.
I just remember that being a thing. They do get together.
So he tried to rape her, but then they got together. Yeah,
that is so many things. And then then this is
a whole cautionary tell if you have sex, it's going
(21:57):
to be really bad. The guy who you like will
be an ass. Yes, that was you were going, I
got you, I got you. Yeah. And then there's a book.
I think it's written by rol Stein. Um. It was
definitely one of those teen thriller slash horror riders that
I love. Wrote an adult book, adult novel which included
(22:21):
this like monster character that I think came from incests somehow,
and he's he's a horrible man, horrible thing with no mind,
and the mother's trying to control him or whatever, and
then he goes out and eats people. But one of
the scenes he's raping a woman that he's essentially eating
at the same time on a carnival ride. I believe
it was really like what is going on? And of
(22:44):
course the woman who was eaten was the slut of
the characters, so that was like that was like four
college friends and the virginal not a word where the
virginal one was like protected somehow, but the slut character
was one that ended up being eaten and raped as
though she deserved it, and she tried to I think,
(23:07):
entice him. It has a way to try to get
away from him, as if like giving what he wanted,
what the monster wanted, she could maybe live, but she
of course doesn't. I just remember that being like, oh
my god, what is happening? So he kind of took
all the tropes of the cliches of monsters and films
and all of that, and women within monsters and books.
It's kind of like, what what the hell just happened?
(23:29):
It was really weird. Yeah, that that sounds a lot
like have you ever seen Cavin in the Woods? Yes,
it sounds like that, but Kevin and the Woods is
a parody. Um. Also, when Samantha brought this up in
the studio that there was an arl Stein, I don't
book me and super producer Andrew got so excited started
explaining what it was. They were like, oh no, that
(23:49):
sounds terrible. I need to go back and make sure.
Either it was arl Stein, maybe Christopher Pike, but it
was definitely one of those. And the reason I read
it was because I love them both so much growing up.
You know who doesn't love the Fear Straight Chronicles It's
fantastic or all of the goodn't like Goosebumps as much.
I like the Fear Street, I like the Witches. I
like the one with the two girls who go hit
(24:10):
hiking and one of the girls as the murdyrer. But
you think it's the guy that they picked up the
entire time that he knew had to do a good
plot twist, twist twist. Some studies have shown that despite
finding the possibility or reality of real life rape horrifying
and traumatic, up to six of women admit to fantasizing
about having sex. I guess there will, particularly with monsters,
(24:34):
and we sort of touched on this. It depends on
publishing schedules, um, but I think it's super complicated, and I,
along with the study authors, want to emphatically drive home,
this is not me that women want to be raped
in real life. No, no, no, no, not coerced, forced,
nothing of the sort. Um Like some men disgustingly and
(24:56):
excitedly claimed when these survey results came out, it's um,
there's a lot of reasons behind it. But like we
were saying, they are too consenting. Adults can agree to
like plays or scenes as we all learn the terms
for yes as in fact in what you do in
the privacy of your own home with your partner or
(25:17):
whomever you do with that day, and you have an
established actual play things consent, consenting thing you want, whatever
it does, and that's fine. But once again, they're still
consent and play. Whether it's like there's a time in
frame at whatever scenario you've got for yourself. UM. And
I have a lot of my own theories on why
(25:38):
this is, and I think, like most things, there's a
lot going on and everybody is different. But um science
people who studied this and conducted the survey think it
has to do UM with with both people who generally
(25:59):
take charge and things and find it a relief to
not take charge of something, to like relinquish control or
responsibility um. And then there is also women feeling like
she can't say yes to something she wants are simultaneously
fearing and desiring sex um. Are wanting her beauty and
(26:20):
desirable desirability, which is our currency in this society, confirmed
as irresistible. And these are like fantasies again like just
to drive the home its fantasies um. Some psychologists think
has to do with the woman fearing emasculating the man
and promoting violence and diminishing her desirability if refusing sex.
(26:41):
And yes, all of this is very hetero research um.
And a couple of things to add here is the
women who reported having these fantasies also reported higher levels
of consensual fantasies and higher levels of openness and positivity
when it comes to sex as opposed to the women
who didn't. Because of that, some psychologists this fantasy might
be an underlying desire to explore more sexual scenarios like
(27:04):
bondage or some other kink. Again. Again, again, do not
take this as women secretly want for sex, because that
is not a thing. It is not ever ever a thing,
not a thing. You will know from the mouth of
the woman if she wants to have sex, yes, yes, um.
And because we are going to discuss bondage and um
(27:29):
fetishes the partner yes, mouth of partner consent on all parties,
on every party. And again, fantasy different fantasy, and the
likelihood of someone acting out their fantasies are going to
be still in the conversation, right and communication mm hmm. Yeah,
(27:51):
So just keep that in mind. Uh, and we will
be returning returning to that a little bit in upcoming episodes.
So distant psychologists take issue with the term rape fantasy
to saying it should be more accurately described as consensual
ravishment or agreed to aggression. And again, I think this
is a lot to do with our own, um past
(28:12):
socidal ideas of being manly or masculine. And again this
is very heteronormative. But if you look at things like
The fountain Head, there's a pretty intense scene of this
guy coming after her, who is the main protagonist and
the hero of the book, with this girl who is
snobby enrich that gets taken by him, and the same
(28:34):
idea with gone with a win when he picks her
up and ravishes her essentially and he feels regret the
next day that is not the same thing, and for
some reason it is romanticized. So thatfore the idea of
having a rep butler in your life sweeping your way
as opposed to, hey, this is any other the guy
tried to touch me on punch him in the throat
and thick, I guess I can't say that, I think
(28:57):
so okay, well I just did m But I mean
that's the difference is like this is a whole picture,
and again breaking down what is norm and what is
not norm, and then breaking down what is acceptable and
not acceptable. Yeah, um, and I know I was reading
some other studies about how, um, there's a fear of
(29:18):
communicating like what you want if it's not quote unquote
normal when it comes to sex, if it is kind
of a fantasy or something that might be a little
um more scaye. So it is hard to get good
numbers around it because you know, people are a little
so it can be a little shy. Well. And also
there's still that shape factor that happens, as we talked
(29:40):
about many many times, and whether or not we can
say what we want because will you look on me
with shame? What do I have guilt about these feelings? Whatever? What? Not? Um,
there's a huge cloud over everyone, um with whatever they
think is not normal based on their experiences or their
environment or their social ideas. Um. And so therefore they
(30:01):
would rather just sit in silence that actually communicate and
be open. Yeah. Yeah, but I think things that are
changing slowly. Yes, there are a lot of dudes and
some women who like to argue that the attraction of
monsters thing demonstrates that toxic masculinity doesn't exist and that
it's what women really want. And also no, also no,
(30:25):
like what, yeah, I just saw that in a lot
of places, and I was like, Okay, well no, but
I want to address it. Side issue female sea creatures
giving up power and family to be with human men,
because I've seen that in a couple of things Allan,
you are the Little Mermaid. The related side issue the
quote monster hotness gap. I did not coin that, or
(30:47):
the fact that generally speaking, female monsters have to be
hot and overly sexualized, but this isn't as often the
case with women and male monsters. Just think of Monster
Halloween teams from men versus women. Yeah, like, I mean
you and I are talking. Also the fact that when
we look at the movie with Megan fox. Oh, Jennifer's body. Yeah,
(31:10):
Jennifer's body. She's a monster, but she's this hot ass
monster that comes around and he knows seduce his boys. Um.
And many of the times you see these monsters being
really beautiful females and then transforming into this ugly thing
later on in time monster within and right right, um
(31:31):
as where the monsters of men are just out there.
And I mean, have you ever heard of the reverse
Beauty and the beast? Beauty and the hunk, hunking the beast?
Not beauty and the beasts? So I we hunk and
the beast, And no it shouldn't beauty and the honk.
That's just like that's the reality show happening on the beach. Right. Um.
(31:58):
I just dated myself by using the term, didn't I
I don't know. I think hunks still has a thing,
I think so. Um. There's also a female monsters sympathy gap.
We're more likely as audiences to sympathize with male monsters
than we are with female monsters. I wonder why that
could be. Also, female monsters are almost always single. And
(32:20):
I almost went into a huge tangent about it, but
then I was like, you gotta range almost always go
after their best friends guys. I've noticed that a lot
like they go after something that is right, you know,
supposed to be priority for females, being caddy as it were. Um,
some of the things we're talking about here can and
sometimes do fall under the umbrella of fetish or kinks,
but not always. I do want to mention that a
(32:43):
Shape of Water themed dildo on Etsy keeps selling out
and after it's Oscar when it's sold out in twenty deepness,
I'm not gonna lie I've never seen that movie just
because I couldn't understand the premise, and I get it.
I get it. By the same time, I was like,
there's a really interesting take on that movie about how
(33:06):
it's supposed to be you know, romantic. But at the
same time, the director's skim adults for right. He kind
of has publicly looked down on people fetishizing. Um, the
monster are not even fetishizing, but just kind of romanticizing.
And but but at the same time, it's like, this
(33:26):
is what the movie is. It's it's weird. I saw
that came up a lot when I was researching this,
but it wasn't exactly what we're talking about so I
didn't include a lot of it. Um. I've always thought
this whole thing had something to do with how women
and society at large are taught to fear female sexual
desire and pleasure, going back to like the taboo thing,
(33:47):
so a lot of us have difficulty expressing it and
also suffer from low self esteem. Into a sexy, powerful
vampire who literally cannot resist you, who is so in
love heavy quotes with you, he watches usually bit Night
and wants to hear your every thought. Creepy. But I
found some pieces that argued it might have to do
with marginalized people emphasizing with creatures on the outside of society.
(34:10):
There's some criticism in that vein to that rather than
depict sex outside of our sis, hetero noorms, pop culture
ops for monsters instead. Yeah, I found that interesting. And
related to this are more modern take on more respectful,
consensual monsters with women. Pairings and attraction to them is
sometimes credited to our desire to see stories that allow
(34:32):
women more sexual agency, that depict more queer lead relationships
and or depict more non white leading relationships, and Hollywood's
resistance to that because these are still straight, white ladies
falling from monsters as opposed to doing that. But like
we're craving something else so much then what we've seen
that I guess for monsters or the way we're going
(34:54):
with it, Okay, something else. I read claim that vampires
and werewolves, often especially in older works, were layered with
homosexual overtones and thus a fear of spreading homosexuality. Yes, yes, um.
And I also want to add that I think writing
fan fiction that involves sex with the monster that isn't
consensual is often a way of working through complicated feelings
(35:18):
around sex or past sexual experiences. Is easier to think
of someone as a straight at monster than a human
person who victimized you. That's just my theory about some
of it, not all of it at all, but some
of it. And another theory I have, because I have
thought of episode, is that all of this might have
to do with male writers grappling with the societal scripts
(35:40):
that tell them that they can't control their desires and
women will love them no matter their monstrous attitude. Anyway,
Are that that the love of a woman will make
them better? Love of a pure woman? Yes, I will
make them pure as well, exactly so, there's a lot
going on here. Um, but we're not done. But first
(36:01):
we have one more quick break for a word from
our sponsor, the Vampire st and we're back. Thank you sponsor,
And we are back with Vampire Vanpa. Because I didn't
(36:23):
want to look at them specifically for a second and
I was. I asked you before we did this if
you had any kind of monster attraction things going on,
and you said the one thing that I've always really
really liked our vampire stories, and I've loved them from
the beginning. And this is why I also say I
did know about Twilight. I also loved um Interview with
a Vampire that was one of my favorites. I even
(36:43):
watched the one with Jim Carrey, the really really old
school one. What is it like a comedy? Uh? Good, gosh,
it's so old was a vampire? Yes, he he transforms
into a new vampire. Oh and it was um on
rotten tomatoes but it was film. And yeah, he gets bitten.
(37:08):
I can't remember the quite premise. He gets bitten and
he's slowly transforming and it's obviously a bit of a comedy. Um.
But yeah, I even watched that one because I really
liked it. I liked the idea, Yeah, there's something to
me when you see this kind of like darkness and
defying death. I think was part of my fascination. Also,
(37:29):
Brad Pitt was beautiful. I will say this thing between
him and Kirsten Does was really really creepy and almost
did not make me happy. It definitely didn't make me happy.
But it's very sexualized. Of all, I feel like all
of the monster movies or like that type of non
human movies, vampires are the most sexualized me that anything else.
(37:50):
I would agree. I would agree with that, and that's
why we have this whole section specific Um what does
that say about me? Then? Damn? Oh no, No, you
were definitely not alone. Um. So I found a lot
of theories about why we have a fascination with vampires,
(38:11):
and one of the and while they're so sexualized, I'm
one of the first things that I ran into that
was really obvious when I read it, but I was
still sort of surprised, is that it's a replacement for sex,
because you're like exchanging bodily wods, but you're not having sex. Again,
it's someone who maybe can't resist you, who might bite
(38:33):
you at any time can offer you eternal life, eternal youth.
Um is unchanging in city. I thought that was such
a funny argument. But again, I guess that makes sense.
Like if you're you want somebody steady at commitment in
your life, then someone who could commit to you. Right
there you go a safe sex symbol. I found that argument.
(38:54):
Um the bad boy and the allure of reforming him
or the tortured sensitive soul. I do love a really
sad boy. I do too, and I don't. I have
a lot of friends that make fun of me for that,
But oh my goodness, I did. I like the tortured
artist guy. That was my thing. That on another episode
to come back to the fact that they're mesmerizing um
(39:19):
the fantasy of not having to be responsible and almost
always played by conventionally attractive actors. Although the original Dracula,
sure this is our newer Sparato was not a pretty boy. No, no,
have you seen um? As we lie in the shadows?
What we do in the what we do in the shadow?
(39:40):
I love that. I love the show. I haven't watched
the show, but I know the movie in itself. It
kind of goes back to the old school idea of like, yeah,
it's not a sexy as you think, and I do
love their takes on that. Yes, I love it any
listeners who are interested. Highly recommended good movie. Um. Twilight
is often seen is a metaphor for abstinence. Oh absolutely
(40:03):
before marriage. Edward can hardly resist Bill's sent but he
must or she will be condemned to be a monster
to putting the responsibility on the woman for the man's
desires and actions. Another example of that, um, but also
complicated by the fact that she does love him right um,
And also complicated by the fact that I suppose the
message there is premarrital sex as monstrous yeah, um, and
(40:25):
I think you're going to talk about it, but actually
he refuses to sleep with her because she wants to
be with him so badly. And I don't think ever
they've ever mentioned sex in the book or in the movie,
because well, now, I'm sorry beforehand that they don't talk
about it. Um. But she says something along the time
learned like because the whole bag, oh my god, I
can't believe I know so much of the whole back
(40:46):
and forth is that she wants to be with him
forever and she doesn't want to grow old and die
he lives or whatever, and he doesn't want her to
be a monster as he is quote unquote, um. But
she also wants to sleep with him, and she wants
to sleep with him while she's still human because she
doesn't know that things will change when she's not anymore.
And the only way he will do that is if
they get married. So he is the one that puts
(41:08):
it on her. So she gets married at eighteen eighteen,
and for some reason that it's acceptable even this day
and age, and everybody's like super excited and no one's
really creeped out by the fight. Hey, that's really weird.
But this is also that religious dance, which is the
writer was very religious, is very I don't know, and
that was part of her thing, is the pale the
(41:30):
sexual attraction. But he was such a good guy, and
it's such a good man that he makes sure that
they're married first, and the's her her reputation. It's not
yet because you know at eighteen, when you get married
in two thousand and five, it's completely normal. Um. And
I did read that part of the appeal of Edward
(41:52):
is that his love for Bella propels him to combat
his monstrous urges interest. Um. And I've said it before,
We've talked about in other episodes around stalking is not romantic.
But the romance between Bella and Edward displays many signs
that are precursors to abuse, if not outright abuse and
(42:13):
stalking and controlling behavior. Pop culture has for so long
painted that as romance, and it can be hard to
unlearn what we have taught. Like Twilight is by no
means the only offender here. This is everywhere. Right, Oh no,
it still is every day. Once again, we talked about
Gray fifty Shades of Gray, and that just happened the
(42:34):
news word just released a few years ago. Right, yeah,
I mean it's everywhere. Um, but I did want to
put that in there. We are a where that watching
someone sleep against that will perhaps super creepy. Um. One
article claimed that the popularity of Twilight and other modern
vampires um is almost entirely straight women being attracted to game. Um, okay,
(42:59):
and women being attracted to something dangerous yet safe, like
they're powerful, but they also have a lot of self control,
like they can protect you. I don't know, it's this
whole like being saved idea. Yeah, and being pure and
walking into something dangerous once again, because both Bella and
even in Trubla, that's the same idea, and in the
(43:21):
old school bram Strokers Jacula with Gary Oldman in one
no writer, UM, it's the same thing, and she's a
pure woman that comes through as an idea of saving
an Individuals say True Blood did a better job of
at least I guess because I had like, what's like
seven seasons long of exploring her sexuality a little more
(43:41):
and her being a little more demanding. She dreams that
she has a three some of them, oh yeah, it
was very stuck. But two of the vampires though, oh okay.
I I don't remember that show very well. I only
watched the first two seasons and with my friends, and
again I really like that show. But I did like Godrick.
(44:02):
I remember Godrick very vaguely, and I liked him. Alex Carscar,
I don't know who he was. He was the one that,
oh yeah, the old human character, and he was one
of the first vampires. Yes, I think it really is
a desire to see something different than what we have seen. UM.
I also wanted to include in here briefly that when
(44:24):
I was researching this, UM Some examples included things for
monsters that I found troubling, and I think there is
a layer of um able is um and misunderstanding of
mental illness that is at play, and a lot of
this UM. I just wanted to mention that I came
(44:47):
across some examples that I was like, um, um the whole,
this whole idea is so um the meaning two women
in general um and those who identified them all just
anybody who UM. I mean, there's nothing wrong in delving
into an imagining world, imaginary world where you want more
(45:07):
or you want something that is purely your fantasy. You
can think what you want. Again, I still like vampires.
I still think it's fantastic. I still like the idea
um of that kind of fantasy realm. But A, I
don't want to be stalked. B I don't want anyone
to draw blood from me. So yeah, you know what
I mean. But like, there is that fine line of
(45:31):
where do we push this idea where women become these
objects of whether it's they have to be the representation
of purity um and they should be always pure and
gentle and kind and and giving and change people, which
is my like my own personal struggle in trying to
be like I gotta help and fix people. That's not
(45:53):
a true thing, but these films oftentimes portray that as
this is the best way to be a woman, you
know what I mean, um or this is the best
way to be a good partner, and you start looking
at things like fifty Shades of Gray and understand. I
think what I do like about all these things is
it does portray that women are sexual and do desire
to have to be a part of that fantasy life
(46:16):
and to do some more exploration and that these conversations
should happen. But they do definitely like put women in
a box and you have to be careful on both
of those levels. Yeah. And also, I mean with most
media that we enjoyed, well, I don't know about most,
but a lot of media is an exaggeration of life, right,
(46:38):
Like that's why we're going is because it takes something
that maybe we feel and exaggerates it. Like superhero movies
are a great example. They're still human character. I mean,
when it's done well, they're human characters you can relate to,
and they're dealing with things we can relate to. But
on a bigger scale, like on a on a more exciting,
imaginative scale. Right, So I think that is play here
(47:01):
as well, because I mean it's just different than a
rom column. It's a little a little more dangerous. You
want something a little dangerous? Yeah, Um, so we're about
gonna wrap this up. Um, we didn't really get into
you except for you briefly, Samantha. Human monsters are like
(47:23):
dexter because I think that that is a different thing.
That is is a whole different level of like serial killer. Yeah,
and we kind of briefly touched on that with the
recent like the Ted Bundy documentary and the You on Netflix.
That is a different thing. Um, Happy to talk about
it at a future date. But basically, human sexuality is
(47:47):
complicated and is influenced and shaped by a plusora of thing. Man,
it comes out in many different forms in many different ways,
it does, indeed, And UM, we would love to hear
from listeners about your favorite monster movies. If you've written
any stories are fan fiction, UM would love to read it.
You can email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at
(48:07):
i heeart media dot com. You can also find us
on Twitter at moms Stuff Podcasts and on Instagram at
stuff I've Never told you. Thanks as always to our
super producer Andrew Howard, Mr Howard, and thanks to you
for listening stuff I've never told you. The production of
I Heart Radios how Stuff Works. For more podcasts from
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Samantha McVey
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