SMNTY Pulls an All-Nighter

Women are getting historically low levels of sleep. Why is that? Anney and Samantha look into why women struggle to catch some zzzs, and share some tips for getting better sleep.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, this is Annie and welcome to stuff. Mom. Never
told your protection of I R Radios how stuff works.
That's what I call it cold open. When I surprised
somebody and just start, just start, and I started laughing,

(00:23):
like what just happened? Alright, I have no warning. I
used to do that when I was a producer. And
I get my finger like way up in the air
and goes do one. Then I press the button. The panic.
Get good reactions out of people? You do, We're just
a giggle, just a giggle until um. So as we
record this episode, I as Amantha. We have just wrapped

(00:46):
up Dragon Con, which I call my biggest party of
the year, and it is a five day marathon. Legit,
I don't know if it's just a marathon. It was
like a sprint for five days long because it was
not slow rolling. It's a sprint slat, it's a sprinting marathon.
There's no sleep, I think on average this year I
got I got three or four hours a night, which
actually isn't that different from the normal for me. But

(01:06):
it's still like you add in the walking and the
drinking all day and the costumes and just the stimulation. Yeah,
that was a lot. I had to have a three
day recovery, and I actually only stayed out with you
one night out of the three days that I attended,
Like I was there during the day. Well actually one
day I didn't see you at all, but I got
to see a lot about But the one night I'm like, yeah,

(01:27):
I'll stay out with you. I think I stayed out
with you one night till eleven, and the next time
I was like I should still the three actually with
the waffle house. That's how we did um and I've
discovered after you know, my life in the department Family
and Children's Services, I can't do that anymore, Like I
can't do all nighters. It also got sick and apparently
that's the thing that happens because all the Germany people

(01:50):
that want to high five me and a stupid people
in that one space, stupid milk. Yeah, let me give
you a high five. I'm cool. I'm not cool, and
I'll never do again. Don't touch me next year, if
you've come, you should go as then I think I'll
just be unhappy. How about that. No, No, I'm like,
this year was my first year and it was overwhelming,
and I'm like I was I was not prepared, not

(02:11):
no matter how much you told me. I've been to
the parade, still was not prepared. I watched the entire
parade with our boss next to me and didn't realized
until the very end, and I was racking my brain
frantically for what was I saying, Well, okay, maybe that's
why I had a distinct voice, and we were right

(02:31):
next we were actually touching arms. I'm sure it was like,
also very loud. He doesn't listen to this, he definitely doesn't.
And then you get an email. But yeah, that was interesting. Yes,
well I hope you had it some amount of fun.
I mean, like I said, I was very entertained, and
we had this whole plan that I was going to

(02:52):
go and a few people. I got one interview by
the way interview people and talked to women and heap
itally that did not happen. I was trying to figure
out how not to be touched fair and how to
hide away like and don't get me wrong, when I
finally found a spot where I could just sit and
say it, it was wonderful to watch and and see
so many people having so much fun being creative, but

(03:15):
trying to navigate myself out of that situation. Yeah, I
a lot of I had a really good time this year,
and a lot of people will be like, wow, look
at you, You're so drunk, and I'm like, no, I'm
just really happy, Like like even in the morning before
you've been an alcohol you were definitely smiley. I was
having a great time, and I did. I only counted,
in my personal experience, two creepers, which is pretty good.

(03:38):
I know I heard from other friends about other creepers,
but in my experience, you actually missed. Right after you
left that night, you stayed till three am. We went
to a different party. What part did you go to?
Oh did you go to the big one party? I
was thinking about it, but I'm like, I need a
food and that that last party we went to the
last party on all round, it wasn't great. No, they

(03:59):
often aren't. No offense to anyone who organizes them. It's
just the nature of having a bunch of nerds. Yeah,
and like I'm not a big Edian fan. Yeah, although
my friend Joe took some really great videos the dance circle.
There was one of is it um Harlequinn comic character.
She's dancing and you see Jesus with his rainbow. It

(04:21):
was Jesus, well, gay Jesus when he that one dude
fell over and he got over Gay Jesus got over him,
like rose him from the dead. That was awesome. And
that was when you disappeared. Were like, I don't know
where any wins. I was just bopping about. I was
still there. You were dancing terribly, but I was dancing.
I was I was living my best life. But this

(04:44):
whole episode isn't gonna be a recap on Giant Con.
It's about sleep because there was none to be had
at Dragon Con. And I personally have so much trouble sleeping,
and it is probably one of the biggest drivers of
my life of like the trouble I get into, the
way I behave, um, the amount of thought I put

(05:04):
into how am I going to sleep tonight. I don't
even want to calculate how much I dedicate to that.
It actually depresses me. I've tried all the tricks. I
stopped looking at my phone around nine pm. Not always,
but most nights. I do stretches. I count by odd
numbers and I've gotten up to three thousands something. And
before I said, you know, this isn't working for me.

(05:25):
I've tried various medications, no caffeine, no alcohol, um, and
I have the exact opposite schedule most people expects, and
that I usually fall asleep around eleven PM. But then
I'm up by one am, and I maybe fall back
to sleep around five am and get up at seven am.
It's pretty miserable. Yeah, and you am my friend, uh,

(05:46):
my other coworker, she's the same way because she'll go
to bit about nine or ten, wake up about to
stay up and stay up. And I'm just going, how
do you function like that? I I almost die if
I don't get at least six hours and that I'm
still struggling. But I do have that sweet spot. If
I get too much sleep, I'm done, so I have
to stop. Yeah, there's like a it's a weird window.

(06:09):
So I get too little, I'm a mess. If I
get too much, I'm just so much of a mess.
But yeah, I don't have that struggle that And I'm like,
and I'm in awe that you guys are standing and
as tipper as you are. It's something I've had to
learn that people need sleep more than I do, and
people need food more than I do. And this is
just a stage because I've been the opposite. That was

(06:31):
true because there was dragon Con at one point, I
think it was me and your other friend Katie. Both
of those were like, I'm hungry. They don't eat, do they.
We're gonna have to stop them because I need food. Yeah,
that that actually are our last night at dragon Con.
That you you were sick by this point, but um,
we had a wonderful time. But um, I wasn't intending

(06:52):
on getting food, and they then didn't and they got
very very drunk, very drunk, and I was like, maybe
we should get some pizza because I was, Oh, I'm
old enough to know my limits and I enjoy food
way too much. No, that's good, and I'm like, um,
if I don't do this, these are the things I'm
going to regret later. That is what I've had to

(07:15):
I had to grow. Um, But I did have I
used to have the inverse problem with this whole thing,
where I slept essentially all day when given the option,
and I struggled to get out of bed. There was
even discussion from my doctor that I might have chronic
fatigue syndrome. It was very bad. Um and We've talked
about before and past episodes about how sleep is a privilege. Unfortunately,

(07:41):
when you have multiple jobs, kids, no cars, for example,
you're not going to be getting much and disclamor. The
science of sleep is very incomplete and very much ongoing,
and as per usual, a lot of studies until recently
only looked at men. In the Food and Drug Administration,

(08:02):
the FDA released the first sex specific guidelines for a
drug ever, and it was for ambient after it was
discovered women metabolized the medication more slowly than men do,
so lots of work to be done, but to start
with sleep is incredibly important. It impacts physical and mental

(08:24):
health as well as a job performance and social and
family life. Sleep deprivation actually shrinks part of our brains
and leads to poor decision making, difficulty forming new memories
and controlling emotions, and risk evaluation. It takes up more
of our time than any other activity. But only thirty
percent of Americans are getting the recommended amount of sleep,

(08:46):
and forty million Americans struggle with sleep disorders. And it
affects women more than men. And actually this has affected
people in driving. Yeah, there's it's been a big cause
of death for um, that very reason, lack of sleep
and sleep deprivation. I know we talked about that has
been talked about with like truck drivers and such and
how dangerous it is. Remember being without sleep and feeling

(09:08):
like I was drunk. Well that in the MythBusters have done.
They remember they did an episode where they compared drunk
driving to write sleep deprivation while driving, and they found
that they were equally bad. Don't do either right or
not saying please get an uber yes, um, And I
know like with some train accidents we've had, this has

(09:30):
come up because of the lack of sleeping. Okay, for
some quick comparison between sexes, more than a quarter of
women while men sleep talk. Oh I do that, um sixty.
I used to speak Korean too. Yeah, it's weird people,
That's what people say. They're like, I don't know what
language you're speaking. Maybe it's just mumbles. I don't know. Uh.
Sixty percent more women six than men, which is only

(09:53):
ten percent have night terrors. And of course the whole
ordeal of keeping up with the current needs jobs children
all that that's differentiates between male and female as well.
And these are modern times, working late or odd hours
is more common than ever, whether it's the gig economy
or people working in international markets. Um we're more regularly

(10:15):
having irregular sleep and are more likely to make poorer
decisions because of it. According to the National Sleep Foundation,
the average person needs seven to nine hours of sleep,
but the average woman aged thirty to six he only
gets six and a half hours. During the work week.
Nearly one and two women wake up not feeling well
rested four times are more a week. One report found

(10:38):
some studies find women's sleep more than men, but the
quality of men's sleep is better. Some male respondents reported
feeling childish for having a quote bedtime, whereas more women
reported being aware of the health benefits of getting a
good night's sleep. Some researchers suspect that a fear being
seen as less masculine leads men to report artificially lower

(11:00):
sleep times. Wow So a month long study found that
women's circadian cycles, the system that naturally governs sleeping and
waking times, are earlier than men's, meaning we typically fall
asleep earlier, but we also a wake earlier, and it
still takes us longer to fall asleep. Postman apausal, women
reported more difficulties sleeping than pre menopausal women. Amount of

(11:22):
sleep isn't the only thing that matters either. The quality
of sleep, like we mentioned before, is very important as well,
and for women things like mischell cycle, pregnancy, and menopause
can impact that and some other things that can impact quality.
A two thousand and two pole found that sixty of
women reported experiencing insomnia at least a couple of times

(11:42):
a week, compared to fifty percent of men. Now, I'm
really glad I looked this up because I thought insomnia
probably because of that movie with Alpacida or whoever was
in it, Robbert maybe, but I thought it meant you
never slept, Oh never, No. Um. It just can encompass
everything from trouble falling asleep, staying asleep, um, waking up

(12:04):
to early and not being able to go back to sleep.
It's a lot of different things. Apart from the biological
factors we mentioned, there are possible treatable root causes to this,
like anxiety or depression. Chronic sleep deprivation can also lead
to our contribute to depression, especially for young women. One
study found that women are more likely to suffer from

(12:25):
nocturnal sleep related eating disorders or in s R e D.
This is when you eat at night when you appear
to be asleep. More women than men report restless leg syndrome,
and researchers think asleep apnea is underdiagnosed in women, which
is thought to be more common in men, although the
number of women experiencing it does go up after menopause,
and one reason it might be underdiagnosed is again, it's

(12:48):
never really been studied in women, and doctors are learning
the symptoms present differently. This is frightening because sleep apnea
is more likely to cause heart failure and death in women.
Another study found that fifty eight percent of women reported
experiencing pain during the night compared to the forty eight
percent of men. Among shift workers, and these are people
who work nontraditional hours, women experienced more disrupted sleep compared

(13:12):
to men. A study found that over a three year period,
female shift workers had a sixty higher risk of developing
breast cancer. They also frequently report irregular periods, more difficulty
getting pregnant, and more miscarriages. Also, women are more at
risk of developing other health problems from sleep deprivation to
like type two diabetes, hypertension, and heart disease. Artificial white

(13:35):
present in the room when trying to sleep like a
television has been associated with weight gain in women. Male
storing is more likely than female snoring to lead partners
going to go into sleep in different bedrooms. My grandmother
used to snore so loudly that my grandfather would go
to sleep an hour earlier than her to try to
fall asleep before she did. My mother, somehow can sleep

(13:58):
with my father and I could hear my father. They're
in like downstairs to the corner room, and I'm thinking,
how it can be really impressive. It is really impressive.
Apparently it's also a comfort thing to now for my
mom and she doesn't sleep as well without it. But yeah,
it's super weird to me. I'm like, this would drive
me crazy and I'm going to kick someone out of bed.

(14:19):
This that reminds me of the quote from Scrubs. Yeah,
now I can't. I used to hate it her snoring,
and now I can't sleep without um. Since a lot
of you love dog, yep, I thought i'd include this.
A recent study found women sleep better next to dogs
than their partners, and something this has to do with
the schedule. Having a dog keeps you on, like getting

(14:41):
up to feed it or walk it. Um, my dog
busy spelled with an e y because I was being
all all about myself like it. Um. She slept in
my bed when I was a kid, and it did
not help me sleep. But I had a twin bed
and she was a big dog. Some nights I slept
on the floor. Wow. But I did love her and

(15:03):
she was my dogs and my parents were like, she
if she usually been in a bed, usually in your bed.
That's fair. And I actually prefer my dog just to
sleep with me as well. I think it's just that
comfort of knowing someone's on that bed. But she is
also the worst when she decides that she wants to
move around the middle of the night, and I can
fill every bounce. Yeah. Um, I try to cuddle her.
She's a hot dog. She doesn't like me touching her,

(15:24):
but I like it. Peaches, you're just gonna have to
do I tell her that a lot. I'm like, you're
my dog, I feed you, you have to let me
hold you. That's just how it is. Sleep deparation causes
an increase in risky behavior in men and a decrease
in women, both of which can be bad. Actually depending
on the situation. So they were looking in particular at um, like,

(15:47):
if you're working like the stock market, maybe, um. Either
one could be bad because if you're unwilling to take
the risk that you normally would, you could lose out
on something potentially really good. But then on the flip
side of it, if you're taking more risks than new
normal would, that could also be bad. Um. Also, after

(16:07):
losing sleep, women become more selfish than men. I'm just
wondering if it's being selfish, is just actually caring for yourself? Yeah,
I would, I would be interested to know. More science
is needed, but right now an ad break is needed.
We'll be right back and we're back. Thank you. Sponsored

(16:40):
all right. So, on top of all these things we've
been talking about recent studies, do you suggest that women
need more sleep than men about twenty minutes more And
they think the researchers think that this is because on average,
women use more mental energy multitasking throughout the day, and
on top of that, sleep deprivation hits women harder than men.

(17:01):
Going back to shift workers, some scientists speculate this is
why female night shifters are more likely to get injured
on the job, and that it impacts cognitive ability of
teenage girls more than when compared to teenage boys. Other
studies found mixed results, instead, concluding that women perform better
while dealing with mild keyword mild sleep deprivation. They also

(17:23):
bounced back after a restorative sleep to a much higher
degree than men did, but the difference maybe in the
level and frequency of sleep deprivation. And another study found
that all nighters had a more adverse impact on women.
The authors of that one were quick to emphasize that
more research was needed and that their study example was
really small. Yeah. Another study we wanted to I meagine

(17:46):
found that sleep deprived men were more likely to perceive
interest and sexual interest from women. Scientists think this could
lead to making sexual decisions you may later regret, and
outcomes like sexual harassment, unplanned pregnancies, and st eyes. I
feel like, when I'm tired, I think no one is
interested in me. I think when I'm tired of just

(18:08):
don't touch me. So therefore this way, don't interact. I
don't have the energy, right, Like, let's not talk, let's
not touched, let's not look at each other. Yeah, I
can't imagine. I don't think I've ever perceived more interest
when I was tired. Ever, almost three out of ten
women report using some sort of sleep aid a couple

(18:30):
of times of week. So why do women struggle more
with getting a good night's rest as compared to men.
Researchers aren't sure, but they suspect it's a combination of
hormones and societal expectations that we place on women and
women place on themselves who are more often caregivers both
of children and aging guardians, um doing more housework on

(18:53):
top of having a job, higher overall levels of stress
in general. Some of it goes back to the stuff
we talked to out in our Impossible Goals episode. So these, yeah,
these high expectations, were always thinking what else I gotta
go do this, I gotta go do this, I gotta
do this, and it's really hard to sleep. I can
speak from experience. When your brain is thinking of all
the things you could be doing and in your in

(19:15):
your mind should be doing what you're not doing exactly,
it seems like a waste when I have all of
this stuff to do. I really had to try to
reframe how I viewed sleep, because I saw it as
a waste it's definitely not a waste. Yeah, I've done
that too, but um so. In two thousand and eighteen,
the American Time You Survey found that women are working
longer hours at the expense of their social lives, relaxation time,

(19:38):
and sleep, and on average, men reported having an hour
more downtime than women. Both men and women reported sleeping
less than just about ever since we started keeping check
of that sort of thing. Yeah, pretty much of all
historical records, we were at a historic low when it
comes to how much sleep we're getting. I wonder if
part of that is because now we can actually track
it with all of our little fitness apps and much. Yeah,

(20:00):
that's true. I wonder how they it was probably self reported.
They've been keeping this data for a long time, but
I'm sure it was self reported, and that there's always
an issue with reliability when it comes to that. And
then at the same time, the watches and all of
those bit business such. I know they actually try. I
don't know how calculate deep sleep versus you know, all
of those types of things, and I wonder if that

(20:21):
causes a different level. I feel like that would stress
me out. I used to treat sleep is like Okay,
here we go or going to sleep now, and then
it wouldn't happen. I'd be so mad at myself. I
feel like if I had one of those watches, i'd
just be stressed. Right. I had one for a little while,
but I think it was pretty inaccurate, so I didn't
clean to it too much. But I would wake up
and like, yeah, that makes sense. I don't know about

(20:42):
that one. Like depending on or not rather than gender,
work hours both paid and unpaid, and changes in life
stages from childbirds, menopause seemed to have the most impact
on men when it comes to changes in sleep. The
consensus as of now again is men's blessed, but better
and not by drastically much less than women, who have

(21:06):
a much bigger gap when it comes to lack of
leisure time and interrupted sleep due to some type of caregiving.
So I don't know. I was hoping that I would
come out of this with the answer. Research was research.

(21:26):
We do have some tips, but first we have one
more quick bake for a word from our sponsor, and
we're back, Thank you sponsor. Hi, Hello, and we're back

(21:47):
with tips. But I would love if listeners could send
in their tips. So the ones I found, the big
ones were having a regular bed and wake time like
two children. Um, I feel like, I see, I'm already
getting frustrated because I feel like I do all of
this stuff right. But anyway, okay, doing that not doing
anything outside of sleep in your bed. So this is

(22:09):
what I've struggled with, because if I wake up at
one am, I have the thought maybe maybe maybe I'll
fall back asleep. But according to most things I read,
I should just get out of bed and wait until
I get tired again and then get back in bed
and track. So those are some exercising in the morning. Again,
I do that. So I found for me sometimes meditation works.

(22:31):
I used to sleep meditation app sometimes it does the
real lifelation of the body type of thing. Um or
if you're like me, I love naps, but because it
does disrupt my actual being able to fall asleep, I've
done less, and actually I've had a harder time in
waking up within like a thirty minute span. It ends
up being like a three hour nap. So I can't

(22:52):
do that anymore. Maybe taking a real laxing bath before
or maybe a warm shower with a little lavender you
have you seen those um sent things that you can
put in your shower and heats up. Maybe that'll help, um,
if you can afford it. Get the mattress you're using,
and for me, I need a new mattress for sure.
I was really hoping that would get up for you. One.

(23:12):
I'm not gonna lie ship make comes a man. I'm
still waiting such a spoiled thing to say. But yeah,
like that actually does affect you a lot. And I
was thinking about like old school adages that like you're
talking about counting, you're supposed to count odd numbers because
even numbers is too easy. It needs to be something
slightly so your mind can't wander. I feel like that's

(23:33):
too much, Like I would concentrate too hard and get
frustrated if I can messed up. Well, that's you. Okay,
that's fair. Um. And then like the warm milk type
of thing, Yeah, Coco getting in reading. Yeah, I've heard
um reading is a good one. And then the room temperature,
if you can keep it around like six I think

(23:53):
degrees fahrenheit. Um, that's a rich person number, is it?
My My My place is definitely not that. Maybe that's
in the summer sleeps and that's a Georgia risk person number.
I'm surprised when I saw it. I was just like,
really because I like it cool. Oh yeah, I think

(24:14):
that's the number though. UM. And then less caffeine and
or alcohol. So I stopped drinking caffeine at noon now.
I used to go to two because I've heard it's
three pm because they cut off, but I have I
stop at noon now. If you can't afford it, if

(24:35):
it is a big problem in your life, you can
go see a professional who might be able to prescribe
medication or cognitive behavioral therapy. Keeping a sleep diary, UM,
so if you notice any patterns this night I slept, well,
what did you do that day? I know people also
talk about melotonin UM. I say that cautiously because there
are a lot of unknowns to that UM and then

(24:58):
there's different forms and it helps some people, it doesn't
help some may people. For me, I actually do like it.
I like the little chocolate one and they're like, I
mean it's really miniscule because they're one per thing, so
you can measure out how much you want, how little
do you want? UM? But I don't know. I know
it has been used for many of our adolescents instead

(25:20):
of trying to prescribe them some kind of actual medication. Medication.
So yeah, and I have friends who swear by sleepy
time to eat. Yeah, I used to love that stuff,
not because it makes me sleepy, because I just love
the taste of it. I unfortunately am. I don't think
I'm allergic, but I can't drink tea tea at all. Yeah,

(25:42):
I will feel miserable. Interesting Yeah, t and mint? Any
about the mint and all types of other things. I
don't want to reveal all my other allergies. I don't
know why I'm suspicious that someone's gonna I immediately very concerned. WHOA, Well,

(26:04):
this is being very good insight in your life. I
feel like I've revealed a lot about myself it. Maybe
I'm sleep more sleep but in the meantime, Yes, please listeners,
If you have any tips, are experience in sleeping, or
any any kind of sleep thoughts or dream thoughts, dreams.
We didn't get to talk about that, um, please send

(26:25):
them our way. You can email us at Stuff Media,
mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find
us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram
at stuff mom never told you. Thanks as always to
our super producer who has disappeared but he'll be back.
He's back. Andrew Howard, thank you and thanks to you
for listening stuff I've never told you. He's a protection
of I Heeartradias has stuff works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

(26:48):
vis the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you
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