February 28, 2011 • 20 mins
Following up on last year's episode, Cristen and Molly take a look at the female directors, actors and other professionals contending for an Academy Award. Tune in to learn more about women in Hollywood, as well as the representation of women in film.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom never told you?
From House Towards dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
This is Molly and I'm Kristen Kristy and I don't
(00:20):
know about you, but I sure I am tired. Are
you tired? Because last night was the Academy Awar Oh yeah,
we're living in the future. This is our after party
Extravaganza episode. We're still in our gowns from last night's
still in our gowns. We've still got some champagne buzzes going.
We've been to parties all night. Confetti in our hair.
John Hamm passed out in the studio booth. Um. Yes,
(00:44):
this episode airs the day after the Academy Awards, and
last year around this time we did an episode about
female directors, and we thought it'd be fun time to
follow up on the current state of Hollywood and and
talk about things that one, things that were nominated, and
what's going and on in that crazy town of Hollywood. Yeah,
because last year we talked about directors because Katherine Bigelow
(01:06):
was up for Best Director when she wont Hurt the
hurt Locker, Yes, was she won? Instead of big question
was will there be a Bigelow effect? And Molly was
the answer. The answer was no, quite definitively no. Despite
the fact that two of the movies that were up
for Best Motion Picture of the Year, The Kids Are
all Right and Winter's Bone, we're both directed by women,
(01:26):
those two women were not nominated for Best Director. All
of the Best Directing nominees were men. So no Bigelow
effect that was noticeable. Um. Now we're recording this a
few weeks before the Oscars, so we don't know what won.
But a movie that's highly anticipated to win Best Picture,
The Social Network, has been highly criticized for the way
(01:47):
it depicted women in that movie, because it just shows
a lot of female students partying while the Ivy League
girls are sexy, That's all I have to say, while
the while the poor men are sitting at home programming.
Uh so that that. You can read all about that
on the internet. Um, but yeah, it's it's not. Ah.
I don't know if it was a great year for
(02:07):
women in Hollywood. You know, some some great performances have
been nominated and will have been awarded. Last night. But
you know, in terms of the big winners, I don't
see women being one of those people who took a
trophy home. Well, while there has not been a big
Gelow effect in terms of the Oscar nominations this year,
(02:28):
one thing I have noticed throughout this past year is
there have women have been more vocal about gender gaps
in Hollywood in terms of how they represented on screen. Um,
who is more respected in the industry, who makes more
in the industry? Can I can I offer a quote
from Helen Murren. Oh, I always like quotes from Helen
Mars was at a speech she gave not too long
(02:51):
ago at a breakfast for women in entertainment, and she said, quote,
with all respect to many brilliant and successful women in
this room, really not much has changed in the cannon
of Hollywood filmmaking that continues to worship at the altar
of the eighteen to twenty five year old male and
his penis Helen to say, Helen, it's true. It's true.
(03:18):
And you know, I think that you know, unfortunately probably
doing a podcast every year about this, and uh, if
the podcast existed ten years ago, they'll probably be a
pretty similar similar story that women aren't the the queens
of Hollywood. It seems like a town that's run by men.
And so to fall up on last year we talked
mainly about directors, We're gonna look at some other jobs
and the movie industry, particularly actresses, writers, and producers. Yeah, den,
(03:41):
I think the point here when we talk about the
gender govern Hollywood isn't isn't too great, But to think
about it in the grand scheme of things, of how
women are represented in film and how that trickles down
to and influences our popular culture. Just kind of keep
that in mind as we go through these statistics such
as the ratio of female to male characters in film
(04:04):
has been one to three since nineteen forty six. And
since we're talking about the Oscars, this is our Oscar
after party after all. Uh, since we're talking about the Oscars, well,
let's throw out this statistic. This is from UH analyzing
the gender dynamics in Best Picture Academy Award nominated films
(04:25):
from nineteen seventies seven to two thousand and six, and
of the six thousand, eight hundred thirty three single speaking
characters evaluated in all of those Best Picture nominated films,
only twenty seven point three percent or female. In other words,
when a film was nominated for Best Picture, chances are
(04:47):
the cast is largely male. Now, there are some notable
exceptions this yearation mentioned um black Swan features females duking
it out. Natalie Portman, Mila Kunas, We've got the Kids
are all Right about a family headed by a netbetting
and Julianne Moore, Let's see Winter's Boom, about a young
woman telling to hold her family together. So we've got
(05:09):
some Hopefully we'll we'll change the odds a little bit
this year. But you know, we went from nineteen seventy
seven to two thousand six in this study, and the
researchers who wrote it broke it down by three periods,
from nineteen seventy seven to nine six, and then from
seven to nine and then from to two thousand six.
And even when you split it up by these decades,
you see no growth. You know, it's not like we're
(05:31):
rising as time goes on. The differences are, you know,
just not perceptible. We're really not making that much progress
if you look at it from a timeline perspective. Emily,
I would like to point out that these statistics are
coming from one of our new favorite think tanks. Yes,
the Gina Davis Institute for Gender and Media. If you
(05:53):
did not know this, fair listeners, Gina Davis is very
concerned about how and are portrayed on film, especially how
younger women are portrayed in p G and G rated films,
because she was This happened because she was watching movies
with her younger daughter and was just outraged by the
sexualization and representation of women on screen, and so she
(06:15):
started this institute. Just kind of interesting. Yeah, it raises
these questions of who are we watching on scream, which
is why Kristi made that comment earlier that you know,
it's it can be hard to to gripe about a
gender gap when you're talking about people who make millions
and billions of dollars. But you know, at the end
of the day, we're the one sitting down watching these movies,
perhaps with our children, and we need to think about,
you know, how women are being represented in that. So
(06:37):
let's go back to UM and Gina Davis, if you're listening,
hire me. I'd like to work here. Institute, give us
a called Gina. We'd love to chip. Good job in
a league of their own. Um. So, now, after that
study looks at the female characters on screen, it looks
at who had jobs behind the scenes, and again the
ratio of males to females and occupations like writer, director,
(06:59):
and producer six point five to one. So there's disparity
in front of the camera, there's disparity behind the camera.
But the one thing that they did notice is that
if a direct if the director's female, there might be
a greater chance that there will be a female on
screen playing a significant role. So you know, the argument goes,
if we want to change what we see on the screen,
(07:20):
perhaps we have to change what we see behind the
scenes and all of the not surprisingly, um, those kind
of gender imbalances also lead to a gender gap among
the highest earners in Hollywood. And again, Molly, like you said,
we're talking about people who are bringing home exorbitant amounts
of cash. To talking about a pay gap does seem
(07:41):
kind of silly, but symbolism is the same exactly. You know,
we found all these lists of the highest paid entertainers
in Hollywood, and the list always starts with a ton
of males. Yeah, a bunch of white guys. Uh. And
this is coming from Vanity Fairs list from the top
earners from two thousand nine, and number one, we have
(08:02):
Michael Bay who produced all the Transformers movies including and
also Friday the Thirteenth Nightmare on Elm Street, followed by
Steven Spielberg. We've got James Cameron and at number four.
It's not until we get down to number fourteen that
we get the first lady on the list, Ms Emma
(08:22):
Watson of Harry Potter Fame right, and Cameron Diaz is
also one that pops up on those high ranking lists
a lot um who else was on those lists? Uh what?
You also have Angelia Jolie beating out Jennifer Aniston. On
this list, we've got Sarah Jessica Parker and Katherine Heigl
and Reese Witherspoon and also Sandra Bullock and then finally
(08:45):
Kristen Stewart from Twilight. And those are the only women.
The women that I just ticked off are the only
women on Vanity Fairs lists of the forty top earners
in Hollywood. And so that's um all all together, all professions.
So you've got all these male producers and directs who
topped the list. Female producers, directors don't even make the list,
and it's not until we get to acting that we
(09:06):
see those um women start to pop up. And then
when if you just look at the acting lists, those
again lists are dominated by people like Will Smith, Johnny Depp.
It'll be like five or six guys until you finally
get to a woman, and you know it's and you know,
it's hard to quibble when Cameron Diaz is making thirty
million to Will Smith sixty million, because that's more money
(09:26):
than I would ever need in my lifetime. But you know,
the standard is the same, and I think it does
send that that message to people that if Cameron Diaz
is only worth half of what Will Smith is worth,
then you know, then women are devalued both before they
even get on the screen to play a character. Now,
when Forbes was analyzing this list of male versus female
(09:48):
actors and the money that they were bringing in, they
related a lot of that pay gap to the budgets
and films. Essentially, the higher the budget in a film,
the higher the lead actor is going to make. And
when you think big budget films, you think action movies
and big explosions, big fight scenes, c g. I things
like that that are really going to bring up, um,
(10:10):
the expense. And a lot of times big budget films
are led by dudes because superheroes, yeah, spider Man, yeah.
Whereas chick flicks and I hate to use that term,
but chick flicks, all right, they really don't require that
many you know, fancy fancy things. You don't have to
put C G I on a on a kiss. Although
(10:30):
perhaps the wardrobe of Sex for the City was good
buy a small nation, but yeah, I mean, and you
can see it. I mean, this is not news to
anyone if you even just look at how these commercials
for films are marketed to you. These action movies are
marketed to everyone. Movies like Sex in the City are
marketed to very niche audiences. And so I think that
because you know, the salaries are different, the people writing
(10:52):
and producing them are different. They see these these female
audiences and these movies that are geared towards females as
their own little nit, whereas male movies are for everyone. Yeah,
and they and the big budget films tend to you know,
you have the summer blockbusters, and they tend to break
in more cash. And so all of it translates to
a bigger payday for the guys. But again, kind of
(11:15):
like when we were talking about UM holding constant the
the directors and producers behind the screen and how that
relates to the UM gender representation on screen. When you
hold the budgets equal for both male and female actors,
they're going to bring in the same amount of money. Yeah,
they're saying that, if let's say both Will Smith and
(11:35):
camerd Has decide to make a little um thirty million
dollar movie, a very small comedy, they would make it
would bring in the same amount of money. Yeah. The
the amount of the earnings as nothing. There's no correlation
between movie earnings and the gender of the lead actors.
But Molly, what about the people who are writing these movies?
(11:55):
The screenwriters are talking about, the producers and the directors
and the actors and actresses. What about the right is Molly, Oh,
it's a sad story for writers in Hollywood who are
female or not white. Because the Writer's Guild of America
West has been commissioning these studies almost every two years,
I guess now to look at diversity among writers and uh,
(12:17):
it's it's it's it's never very good. The Writer's guild
is seventy two in male. Let's just kick it off
with that. Yeah, women are underrepresented about two to one
in the industry, both in film and television. And just
like every other, uh sort of Hollywood career, the female
writers make less money than the men. The pay gap
is not quite as large in television, but it is
(12:39):
pretty significant when you come to screenplays. And Chris and
You came across a kind of interesting article in the
New York Times about something called the Empire. The Empire, Yes,
this came out in two thousand nine, and the Empire
is a group of four screenwriters in Hollywood that is
centered around Diablo Cody, who won the two thousand and
(13:01):
eight um Oscar for her screenplay of Juno. And it
was interesting because it was this portrait of this this
gaggle of gals. It's very sex in the city, like
of Diablo Cody and her screenwriter friends who call themselves
the Empire, because it really painted them as these hip,
(13:21):
fashionable writers who were breaking in. But the story completely
glossed over the fact that there is this huge disparity,
like gender disparity among screenwriters and just kind of made
them seem sort of sort of kitchy and cute. Well,
what was sort of unset to me was the fact
that these four female writers have found each other basically
(13:43):
because no one else understood what they were going through.
And you know, they were subject to these things that
the male writers weren't. But you know, it's it's sort
of you know, if we want to show female writers,
is you know, force us to be hired. I don't
know if doing a New York Times article where they
all talk about like purses is the way to do
it well and the I mean the the author did
make one point, she writes a screenwriters usually don't have
(14:06):
stylists or publicists, Yet women say they feel pressure to
look photogenic in a way that is not demanded of
male screenwriters. One recent evening, each woman had to check
the label she was wearing when asked to identify it.
So perhaps it's just reflective of the um the added
pressure on on these younger female screenwriters to break into
the business in a way that maybe a man might
(14:27):
not have to write. I think that you know, we
we've talked about female playwrights and we never had to
talk about whether they had to show up at award
shows and look glamorous, and that was something that Diablo
Cody said she really struggled with when Juno got so popular,
is that she was essentially being judged almost as an
actress in terms of appearance, and you know, she really
(14:48):
was just a screenwriter. The other screenwriters up that year
we're not subject to that same sort of demand. So
it's like any female in the industry becomes almost um,
you know, gets the Jennifer Anniston treatment in some way,
and that they have to perform to these standards of
females in Hollywood that you know, the indie guys don't
seem to have to put up with now. At the
same time, we can take it as as a positive
(15:10):
thing that the Writer's Guild is paying attention to the
issue by commissioning these stories and these studies excuse me,
and really looking at, um what kind of stories they're
putting on screen, because they do want a diversity of voices,
they want a diversity of perspectives, um. And so maybe
that's the lesson that we take from all of this
(15:31):
as consumers, as people who are watching watching the movies,
watching television shows, UH is deciding how we want to
support that diversity. It doesn't necessarily have to be a
female writer. I mean, we're talking a lot about the
breakdown of men and women, but again we're not even
talking about minority racial minority. And I think some people
will say that, you know, a good movie is a
(15:53):
good movie. It should make no difference who wrote it,
who directed, and whatnot. But um, as as these Writer's
Guild studies point out in the in the intro text,
that it's good business to diversify. Uh, you know, our
country is increasingly coming diversified, and we've got to you know,
they're saying, if you want to get people to the
movies on watching TV, it's got to reflect their reality.
(16:15):
And so I think that, you know, we can try
to support the shows that do reflect our own reality,
that are produced in a quality way. So our little
concerned Christal, because I feel like our after party got
a little serious and I really wanted it to be fun.
And there's nothing wrong with serious, Molly. You know, we
(16:35):
we since we're recording this from the future, we can't
talk about any of our favorite dresses or or what
Starlett's made, uh fools of themselves and whatnot. But I
do want to tell everyone out there who appreciates watching
the dresses as I do. I enjoy a good red
carpet pre show that the total cost on average of
(16:55):
a person walking down that red carpet, well of of
a female star you don't start walking down the red carpet,
is probably more than you spent on your house. How
much seven that is fees for a stylists, for the dress,
for the shoes, for the jewelry. Now granted, actresses usually
(17:16):
don't pay all of that money themselves. Movie studio will
pick it up. But you know, if you look at
these women last night and you wonder how they look
so perfect, you only cause almost a million of dollars.
I say, if you've had seven huf dollars, I think
you'd look pretty great. It's pretty great too, So excellent
we can we can in this podcast on a slightly
frivolous note, um as as we should for our oscar
(17:40):
after party, food for thought, facts to throw out. It's great.
What more do you want from a party? I don't know. Um,
I would really like John Hampton to wake up and
take us out to brunch. Well, while we wait for that,
she reads some listener, Now, yes, well, I have any
email here from Meredith, it's about our courset episode, and
(18:02):
she writes as someone who has watched entirely too many
period pieces and has spent many years studying nineteenth century literature.
I always thought, of course, it's really cool, but when
I became a mother, I suddenly realized how uncool they
could be. One of the biggest problems with courses in
history has been its effect on mothers for nursing infants,
even a loose course that can exert pressure the wrong
way and cause breast infections and milk supply issues, which
(18:24):
was kind of a big deal before things like reliable
formula or around Personally, I feel I foolishly bought a
corset type garment after having my dollar because I wanted
my waist to look smaller, and figured because it wasn't abraa,
it shouldn't pose a problem. Wrong. Massitis is horrible and
pretty embarrassing when the cause is vanity, so a perspective
on course, it's u nursing. I've got an email here
(18:46):
from Cara, and it was in response to our episode
on objective sexuality, and she was taking issue with the
idea of a relationship between the woman and the golden
gate Bridge so she writes, any relationship in order to
be successful and fulfilling in the long run, must involve giving,
putting your partner first. Ask not what your partner can
(19:08):
do for you, ask what you can do for your partner.
This woman in the example has little to offer the bridge,
aside from perhaps scrubbing off graffiti. She takes from the bridge,
gives nothing back, and is jealous and possessive. Is this
a fetish, a sexual orientation or is it just narcissistic
emotional abuse directed at objects instead of people. Well, we
(19:28):
need to build shelters for bridges escaping from abusive relationships.
All right, Well, if you have any email to send
our way, our address is Mom's Steven House. Stuff works
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(19:50):
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(20:11):
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Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom never told you?
From House Towards dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
This is Molly and I'm Kristen Kristy and I don't
(00:20):
know about you, but I sure I am tired. Are
you tired? Because last night was the Academy Awar Oh yeah,
we're living in the future. This is our after party
Extravaganza episode. We're still in our gowns from last night's
still in our gowns. We've still got some champagne buzzes going.
We've been to parties all night. Confetti in our hair.
John Hamm passed out in the studio booth. Um. Yes,
(00:44):
this episode airs the day after the Academy Awards, and
last year around this time we did an episode about
female directors, and we thought it'd be fun time to
follow up on the current state of Hollywood and and
talk about things that one, things that were nominated, and
what's going and on in that crazy town of Hollywood. Yeah,
because last year we talked about directors because Katherine Bigelow
(01:06):
was up for Best Director when she wont Hurt the
hurt Locker, Yes, was she won? Instead of big question
was will there be a Bigelow effect? And Molly was
the answer. The answer was no, quite definitively no. Despite
the fact that two of the movies that were up
for Best Motion Picture of the Year, The Kids Are
all Right and Winter's Bone, we're both directed by women,
(01:26):
those two women were not nominated for Best Director. All
of the Best Directing nominees were men. So no Bigelow
effect that was noticeable. Um. Now we're recording this a
few weeks before the Oscars, so we don't know what won.
But a movie that's highly anticipated to win Best Picture,
The Social Network, has been highly criticized for the way
(01:47):
it depicted women in that movie, because it just shows
a lot of female students partying while the Ivy League
girls are sexy, That's all I have to say, while
the while the poor men are sitting at home programming.
Uh so that that. You can read all about that
on the internet. Um, but yeah, it's it's not. Ah.
I don't know if it was a great year for
(02:07):
women in Hollywood. You know, some some great performances have
been nominated and will have been awarded. Last night. But
you know, in terms of the big winners, I don't
see women being one of those people who took a
trophy home. Well, while there has not been a big
Gelow effect in terms of the Oscar nominations this year,
(02:28):
one thing I have noticed throughout this past year is
there have women have been more vocal about gender gaps
in Hollywood in terms of how they represented on screen. Um,
who is more respected in the industry, who makes more
in the industry? Can I can I offer a quote
from Helen Murren. Oh, I always like quotes from Helen
Mars was at a speech she gave not too long
(02:51):
ago at a breakfast for women in entertainment, and she said, quote,
with all respect to many brilliant and successful women in
this room, really not much has changed in the cannon
of Hollywood filmmaking that continues to worship at the altar
of the eighteen to twenty five year old male and
his penis Helen to say, Helen, it's true. It's true.
(03:18):
And you know, I think that you know, unfortunately probably
doing a podcast every year about this, and uh, if
the podcast existed ten years ago, they'll probably be a
pretty similar similar story that women aren't the the queens
of Hollywood. It seems like a town that's run by men.
And so to fall up on last year we talked
mainly about directors, We're gonna look at some other jobs
and the movie industry, particularly actresses, writers, and producers. Yeah, den,
(03:41):
I think the point here when we talk about the
gender govern Hollywood isn't isn't too great, But to think
about it in the grand scheme of things, of how
women are represented in film and how that trickles down
to and influences our popular culture. Just kind of keep
that in mind as we go through these statistics such
as the ratio of female to male characters in film
(04:04):
has been one to three since nineteen forty six. And
since we're talking about the Oscars, this is our Oscar
after party after all. Uh, since we're talking about the Oscars, well,
let's throw out this statistic. This is from UH analyzing
the gender dynamics in Best Picture Academy Award nominated films
(04:25):
from nineteen seventies seven to two thousand and six, and
of the six thousand, eight hundred thirty three single speaking
characters evaluated in all of those Best Picture nominated films,
only twenty seven point three percent or female. In other words,
when a film was nominated for Best Picture, chances are
(04:47):
the cast is largely male. Now, there are some notable
exceptions this yearation mentioned um black Swan features females duking
it out. Natalie Portman, Mila Kunas, We've got the Kids
are all Right about a family headed by a netbetting
and Julianne Moore, Let's see Winter's Boom, about a young
woman telling to hold her family together. So we've got
(05:09):
some Hopefully we'll we'll change the odds a little bit
this year. But you know, we went from nineteen seventy
seven to two thousand six in this study, and the
researchers who wrote it broke it down by three periods,
from nineteen seventy seven to nine six, and then from
seven to nine and then from to two thousand six.
And even when you split it up by these decades,
you see no growth. You know, it's not like we're
(05:31):
rising as time goes on. The differences are, you know,
just not perceptible. We're really not making that much progress
if you look at it from a timeline perspective. Emily,
I would like to point out that these statistics are
coming from one of our new favorite think tanks. Yes,
the Gina Davis Institute for Gender and Media. If you
(05:53):
did not know this, fair listeners, Gina Davis is very
concerned about how and are portrayed on film, especially how
younger women are portrayed in p G and G rated films,
because she was This happened because she was watching movies
with her younger daughter and was just outraged by the
sexualization and representation of women on screen, and so she
(06:15):
started this institute. Just kind of interesting. Yeah, it raises
these questions of who are we watching on scream, which
is why Kristi made that comment earlier that you know,
it's it can be hard to to gripe about a
gender gap when you're talking about people who make millions
and billions of dollars. But you know, at the end
of the day, we're the one sitting down watching these movies,
perhaps with our children, and we need to think about,
you know, how women are being represented in that. So
(06:37):
let's go back to UM and Gina Davis, if you're listening,
hire me. I'd like to work here. Institute, give us
a called Gina. We'd love to chip. Good job in
a league of their own. Um. So, now, after that
study looks at the female characters on screen, it looks
at who had jobs behind the scenes, and again the
ratio of males to females and occupations like writer, director,
(06:59):
and producer six point five to one. So there's disparity
in front of the camera, there's disparity behind the camera.
But the one thing that they did notice is that
if a direct if the director's female, there might be
a greater chance that there will be a female on
screen playing a significant role. So you know, the argument goes,
if we want to change what we see on the screen,
(07:20):
perhaps we have to change what we see behind the
scenes and all of the not surprisingly, um, those kind
of gender imbalances also lead to a gender gap among
the highest earners in Hollywood. And again, Molly, like you said,
we're talking about people who are bringing home exorbitant amounts
of cash. To talking about a pay gap does seem
(07:41):
kind of silly, but symbolism is the same exactly. You know,
we found all these lists of the highest paid entertainers
in Hollywood, and the list always starts with a ton
of males. Yeah, a bunch of white guys. Uh. And
this is coming from Vanity Fairs list from the top
earners from two thousand nine, and number one, we have
(08:02):
Michael Bay who produced all the Transformers movies including and
also Friday the Thirteenth Nightmare on Elm Street, followed by
Steven Spielberg. We've got James Cameron and at number four.
It's not until we get down to number fourteen that
we get the first lady on the list, Ms Emma
(08:22):
Watson of Harry Potter Fame right, and Cameron Diaz is
also one that pops up on those high ranking lists
a lot um who else was on those lists? Uh what?
You also have Angelia Jolie beating out Jennifer Aniston. On
this list, we've got Sarah Jessica Parker and Katherine Heigl
and Reese Witherspoon and also Sandra Bullock and then finally
(08:45):
Kristen Stewart from Twilight. And those are the only women.
The women that I just ticked off are the only
women on Vanity Fairs lists of the forty top earners
in Hollywood. And so that's um all all together, all professions.
So you've got all these male producers and directs who
topped the list. Female producers, directors don't even make the list,
and it's not until we get to acting that we
(09:06):
see those um women start to pop up. And then
when if you just look at the acting lists, those
again lists are dominated by people like Will Smith, Johnny Depp.
It'll be like five or six guys until you finally
get to a woman, and you know it's and you know,
it's hard to quibble when Cameron Diaz is making thirty
million to Will Smith sixty million, because that's more money
(09:26):
than I would ever need in my lifetime. But you know,
the standard is the same, and I think it does
send that that message to people that if Cameron Diaz
is only worth half of what Will Smith is worth,
then you know, then women are devalued both before they
even get on the screen to play a character. Now,
when Forbes was analyzing this list of male versus female
(09:48):
actors and the money that they were bringing in, they
related a lot of that pay gap to the budgets
and films. Essentially, the higher the budget in a film,
the higher the lead actor is going to make. And
when you think big budget films, you think action movies
and big explosions, big fight scenes, c g. I things
like that that are really going to bring up, um,
(10:10):
the expense. And a lot of times big budget films
are led by dudes because superheroes, yeah, spider Man, yeah.
Whereas chick flicks and I hate to use that term,
but chick flicks, all right, they really don't require that
many you know, fancy fancy things. You don't have to
put C G I on a on a kiss. Although
(10:30):
perhaps the wardrobe of Sex for the City was good
buy a small nation, but yeah, I mean, and you
can see it. I mean, this is not news to
anyone if you even just look at how these commercials
for films are marketed to you. These action movies are
marketed to everyone. Movies like Sex in the City are
marketed to very niche audiences. And so I think that
because you know, the salaries are different, the people writing
(10:52):
and producing them are different. They see these these female
audiences and these movies that are geared towards females as
their own little nit, whereas male movies are for everyone. Yeah,
and they and the big budget films tend to you know,
you have the summer blockbusters, and they tend to break
in more cash. And so all of it translates to
a bigger payday for the guys. But again, kind of
(11:15):
like when we were talking about UM holding constant the
the directors and producers behind the screen and how that
relates to the UM gender representation on screen. When you
hold the budgets equal for both male and female actors,
they're going to bring in the same amount of money. Yeah,
they're saying that, if let's say both Will Smith and
(11:35):
camerd Has decide to make a little um thirty million
dollar movie, a very small comedy, they would make it
would bring in the same amount of money. Yeah. The
the amount of the earnings as nothing. There's no correlation
between movie earnings and the gender of the lead actors.
But Molly, what about the people who are writing these movies?
(11:55):
The screenwriters are talking about, the producers and the directors
and the actors and actresses. What about the right is Molly, Oh,
it's a sad story for writers in Hollywood who are
female or not white. Because the Writer's Guild of America
West has been commissioning these studies almost every two years,
I guess now to look at diversity among writers and uh,
(12:17):
it's it's it's it's never very good. The Writer's guild
is seventy two in male. Let's just kick it off
with that. Yeah, women are underrepresented about two to one
in the industry, both in film and television. And just
like every other, uh sort of Hollywood career, the female
writers make less money than the men. The pay gap
is not quite as large in television, but it is
(12:39):
pretty significant when you come to screenplays. And Chris and
You came across a kind of interesting article in the
New York Times about something called the Empire. The Empire, Yes,
this came out in two thousand nine, and the Empire
is a group of four screenwriters in Hollywood that is
centered around Diablo Cody, who won the two thousand and
(13:01):
eight um Oscar for her screenplay of Juno. And it
was interesting because it was this portrait of this this
gaggle of gals. It's very sex in the city, like
of Diablo Cody and her screenwriter friends who call themselves
the Empire, because it really painted them as these hip,
(13:21):
fashionable writers who were breaking in. But the story completely
glossed over the fact that there is this huge disparity,
like gender disparity among screenwriters and just kind of made
them seem sort of sort of kitchy and cute. Well,
what was sort of unset to me was the fact
that these four female writers have found each other basically
(13:43):
because no one else understood what they were going through.
And you know, they were subject to these things that
the male writers weren't. But you know, it's it's sort
of you know, if we want to show female writers,
is you know, force us to be hired. I don't
know if doing a New York Times article where they
all talk about like purses is the way to do
it well and the I mean the the author did
make one point, she writes a screenwriters usually don't have
(14:06):
stylists or publicists, Yet women say they feel pressure to
look photogenic in a way that is not demanded of
male screenwriters. One recent evening, each woman had to check
the label she was wearing when asked to identify it.
So perhaps it's just reflective of the um the added
pressure on on these younger female screenwriters to break into
the business in a way that maybe a man might
(14:27):
not have to write. I think that you know, we
we've talked about female playwrights and we never had to
talk about whether they had to show up at award
shows and look glamorous, and that was something that Diablo
Cody said she really struggled with when Juno got so popular,
is that she was essentially being judged almost as an
actress in terms of appearance, and you know, she really
(14:48):
was just a screenwriter. The other screenwriters up that year
we're not subject to that same sort of demand. So
it's like any female in the industry becomes almost um,
you know, gets the Jennifer Anniston treatment in some way,
and that they have to perform to these standards of
females in Hollywood that you know, the indie guys don't
seem to have to put up with now. At the
same time, we can take it as as a positive
(15:10):
thing that the Writer's Guild is paying attention to the
issue by commissioning these stories and these studies excuse me,
and really looking at, um what kind of stories they're
putting on screen, because they do want a diversity of voices,
they want a diversity of perspectives, um. And so maybe
that's the lesson that we take from all of this
(15:31):
as consumers, as people who are watching watching the movies,
watching television shows, UH is deciding how we want to
support that diversity. It doesn't necessarily have to be a
female writer. I mean, we're talking a lot about the
breakdown of men and women, but again we're not even
talking about minority racial minority. And I think some people
will say that, you know, a good movie is a
(15:53):
good movie. It should make no difference who wrote it,
who directed, and whatnot. But um, as as these Writer's
Guild studies point out in the in the intro text,
that it's good business to diversify. Uh, you know, our
country is increasingly coming diversified, and we've got to you know,
they're saying, if you want to get people to the
movies on watching TV, it's got to reflect their reality.
(16:15):
And so I think that, you know, we can try
to support the shows that do reflect our own reality,
that are produced in a quality way. So our little
concerned Christal, because I feel like our after party got
a little serious and I really wanted it to be fun.
And there's nothing wrong with serious, Molly. You know, we
(16:35):
we since we're recording this from the future, we can't
talk about any of our favorite dresses or or what
Starlett's made, uh fools of themselves and whatnot. But I
do want to tell everyone out there who appreciates watching
the dresses as I do. I enjoy a good red
carpet pre show that the total cost on average of
(16:55):
a person walking down that red carpet, well of of
a female star you don't start walking down the red carpet,
is probably more than you spent on your house. How
much seven that is fees for a stylists, for the dress,
for the shoes, for the jewelry. Now granted, actresses usually
(17:16):
don't pay all of that money themselves. Movie studio will
pick it up. But you know, if you look at
these women last night and you wonder how they look
so perfect, you only cause almost a million of dollars.
I say, if you've had seven huf dollars, I think
you'd look pretty great. It's pretty great too, So excellent
we can we can in this podcast on a slightly
frivolous note, um as as we should for our oscar
(17:40):
after party, food for thought, facts to throw out. It's great.
What more do you want from a party? I don't know. Um,
I would really like John Hampton to wake up and
take us out to brunch. Well, while we wait for that,
she reads some listener, Now, yes, well, I have any
email here from Meredith, it's about our courset episode, and
(18:02):
she writes as someone who has watched entirely too many
period pieces and has spent many years studying nineteenth century literature.
I always thought, of course, it's really cool, but when
I became a mother, I suddenly realized how uncool they
could be. One of the biggest problems with courses in
history has been its effect on mothers for nursing infants,
even a loose course that can exert pressure the wrong
way and cause breast infections and milk supply issues, which
(18:24):
was kind of a big deal before things like reliable
formula or around Personally, I feel I foolishly bought a
corset type garment after having my dollar because I wanted
my waist to look smaller, and figured because it wasn't abraa,
it shouldn't pose a problem. Wrong. Massitis is horrible and
pretty embarrassing when the cause is vanity, so a perspective
on course, it's u nursing. I've got an email here
(18:46):
from Cara, and it was in response to our episode
on objective sexuality, and she was taking issue with the
idea of a relationship between the woman and the golden
gate Bridge so she writes, any relationship in order to
be successful and fulfilling in the long run, must involve giving,
putting your partner first. Ask not what your partner can
(19:08):
do for you, ask what you can do for your partner.
This woman in the example has little to offer the bridge,
aside from perhaps scrubbing off graffiti. She takes from the bridge,
gives nothing back, and is jealous and possessive. Is this
a fetish, a sexual orientation or is it just narcissistic
emotional abuse directed at objects instead of people. Well, we
(19:28):
need to build shelters for bridges escaping from abusive relationships.
All right, Well, if you have any email to send
our way, our address is Mom's Steven House. Stuff works
dot com. Of course we'd love to see you over
on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, and of course we'd
love to see you on Facebook as well. You can
like us Sarah, leave us a comment, and as always,
(19:50):
we'd really love for you too. We just love a
lot of things. We really love for you to read
our blog, It's stuff Mom Never Told You at how
stuff works com for more on this and thousands of
other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com to
learn more about the podcast cook on the podcast icon
(20:11):
in the upper right corner of our homepage. The How
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