January 8, 2020 • 35 mins
The good, the bad, and the ugly of social media influencers, instafame, and what it has to do with feminism.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff.
I'm never told your production of I Heart Radios how
stuff works. Today. Today we are talking about social media influencers. Yes,
(00:26):
and since the new year brings with it hope and
aspirations and goals, and for a lot of us, that
means social media and social media influencers maybe might be
part of that. Um Before we get into it, rigger
warning for very very brief mention of eating disorders HOWD.
A year ago, I was sent some sort of influencer
application for travel and I almost did a fittake. I
(00:50):
guess that's the thing now, is what you excited about?
Is that why I'm definitely not an influencercer. I was
told that we you are we as a unit. Okay,
all excellent, but I mean you're bigger because you have
two great shows and you're a movie star. That sense.
(01:13):
Thank you. Um. I did not apply. I did not
feel up the application. Maybe next time, if I ever
received another one, I'll think about it more. Seriously, it's time,
it's time, it's far, it's been time. I want to
start this out by saying I don't really have a
problem with influencers as long as they're upfront about their
(01:33):
sponsors and in general aren't peddling unhealthy beauty standards and
products to achieve those beauty standards or anti feminist rhetoric.
But I am always, always, always a big proponent of
understanding the messages we and younger folks, if you have children,
get through the media. We can soon do your own research.
Don't get stuck in that comparison trap. And I also
(01:55):
a spouse, a responsible wielding of power in a perfect
role that would mean something like fact checking, right um,
I think I would say that there is a huge
responsibility in the words you speak, So think about the
funny equips or inside jokes you're about to tweet, and
take responsibility when you do something wrong or you say
something incorrectly, I guess, or as you may think, is
(02:17):
it misinterpreted. Just being very careful of realizing once it's
out there, it's out there, it's never truly gone, including
admitting when you're playing happy quote unquote. And I say
that in trying to make yourself look perfect, being perfect,
which is seemingly some of the ideas of influencers who
are now kind of backtracking and talking and having a
(02:39):
little more realistic take of their life. But essentially one
of the reasons people are influencers I'm seeing is because
they seem seem to have a perfect life which is
completely fake and being completely happy all the time. Um.
And then one of the reasons you and I started
talking again about influencers because I know that's been a
subject before, and how they came to you is due
(03:00):
to the Natalie Beach and um Caroline Kellaway incident that
happened in September, which was this whole moment in which
Caroline Callaway was a giant Instagram influencer. Turns out Natalie
Beach was her ghostwriter for her the captions, which apparently
is a thing that's a big thing and I don't
know much about it makes sense, why not, UM, have
your agency, have your publicists, they all take care of
(03:22):
the social media aspect. For us, it's typically us is
doing it. UM. By the way, I'm trying to figure
out some things because our website changed, so that's kind
of yeah, so I'm kind of like, oh, no, how
do I do this? Yes, but it also began to
be a tell all scandal because Callaway also ended up
(03:42):
doing a breach of contract for a book deal that
she had and then um, she had an event that
went wonky, so kind of wasn't like, you know, what
is that fire fire festival that kind of fire festival,
very downgraded disaster level. Essentially, she kept canceling and canceling canceling.
People were very upset because you know, they thought they
were going to be able to meet her do all
(04:03):
these amazing things to learn how to be influencers as well.
And then Beach had this again tell all essay um
in which she kind of just drags their friendship. It
turns out to be kind of a toxic friendship, which
we hear many times and many a relationships growing up.
It just happened to be on that level. Escalated pretty
(04:25):
quickly in that time frame. I think, and and and,
as Rolling Stone Magazine stays, it combusted and they as
they would say once again that yeah, this is kind
of the ultimate expectation and downfall of the industry, which
is an industry now. But yeah, that's kind of one
of the reasons I was very interested in you and
I started talking about it. I was like, what is
(04:46):
this world that's getting bigger and bigger and that you
can crash and burn so significantly. So anyway, with that,
what are we talking about with this? Well, I can
tell you some at that, Yes, tell me what does
it mean to be a social media influencer? Well from
a research paper titled who are the Social Media Influencers?
(05:08):
A Study of public Perceptions of Personality? Authored in tent
by Karen Freberg, Kristen Graham, and Karen mcgaughy and Lauren A. Freeburg,
social media influencers are s m I s represent a
new type of independent third party endorser who shaped audience
attitudes through blogs, tweets, and the use of other social media. Okay,
so that's a lot by being authentic with their audiences.
(05:32):
They are recommendations of products and services, drive sales and traffic.
They come in two main types, celebrity and micro. Obviously
one has a bigger audience and that's a bigger reach.
A lot of influencers are niche, focusing specifically on beauty
or being a mom, what have you. This is where
we get terms like in staff, fame, our YouTube star,
(05:53):
YouTube started. They have their own awards show I know, book,
I have a YouTube award, Samantha. I don't know if
you knew this about so you are a YouTube star. Okay,
but I did produce the show that they got an
award that this show actually so Promo Republic breaks it
down even more. Celebrities, artists, politicians, public people who have
(06:15):
one million followers and each of their post gain up
to five percent engagement. The impact comes from their status
and personal brand, which obvious you would know. Macro influencers
are people who have less than one million followers and
each of their post gain up to tien percent engagement.
Their expertise generate with a specific category and it can
be anything from traveling to business development. And then there
(06:35):
are micro influencers, and these are people who have at
least five d followers. Most of their post gain more
than engagement. These individuals build real engagement with the brand
and have a unique relationship with their audience. Such close
relations in a certain niche can bring really outstanding results
in terms of promotion of any company planning to cooperate
(06:56):
with this expert, they also had this interesting st at remember,
the best way to collaborate with a certain expert in
social media is to work according to the one Internet
users consume the content, whereas only one person to produced
the original one that makes sense. I suppose a recreations
or retweets or read things, so that that makes sense. Okay, Yeah,
(07:21):
And then in fun fact, the term micro celebrity was
first coined in two thousand one by Teresa and since
when she was researching cam girls. People are or can
be really really loyal to their social media influencers. For example,
water from influencer Belle Delphin's bathtub was sold for thirty
dollars and you yeah, and she wasn't even her idea.
(07:42):
People were you know, suggesting it and then she put
it in water bottles and sold it for thirty dollars
and apparently sold out, sold out. It's sold out. And
in case you're wondering what, you probably weren't but I was. Yes,
there are artificial intelligence created influencers like little Michaela. She
has over well she it has over a million followers,
(08:05):
not even real million followers. Influencer, this is the future.
A confluence of things allowed for the rise of the influencer,
which I think should be the next Star Wars movie.
Rise of the influencer. One was the availability of the
technology and widespread use of social media. Second, a growing
distrust for companies, and one survey, half of the social
(08:28):
media users indicated they'd unfollow a brand if it was
marketing too aggressively. Influencers are a way of circumventing that,
like getting a product recommendation from a friend. Yeah, you know,
I was just thinking about the T Mobile guy. Everybody
was really annoyed by his brand and he was losing
his you know, losing his mind, trying to be remembered
(08:49):
as the CEO, and so he bought all these ad
space be like, hey, you want free things, I got
free things. I'm the t You don't know me, I'm
the T Mobile CEO. And it was so annoying. People
were like, that was the main conversation was you're annoying,
please stop this, begging him to stop. Yeah, and that
I mean, we certainly had conversations in my friend group
(09:10):
about how if you see too much of an adverse something,
it turns you off of that thing, Like maybe you
would want to see this movie, but fifteen commercials within
two minutes later, you don't want to see it anymore.
So I yeah, I get that an influencer can be
a way to not have to deal with that, And
in theory, you're getting an authentic because that is a
big piece of this which we're going to talk about
(09:31):
a little bit more. An authentic recommendation. Influencers have on average,
the same or higher return on investment than traditional advertising.
Instagram is viewed as the most profitable, with almost influencers
indicating it as their primary platform. I found so many
blogs and articles directed at putting companies in touch with
(09:53):
the right influencers. It blew my mind how much they
should offer to pay. It's like this whole bidding system
fascinating from tenuity. Instagram influencers get you you need about
a thousand dollars per one hundred thousand followers. Snapchat influencers
starts at five hundred dollars per campaign in twenty four hours.
YouTube influencers roughly two thousand per one hundred thousand followers.
(10:17):
You can see how that would add up pretty quick.
At the average price for a sponsored Instagram post jumped
from a hundred thirty four dollars in fourteen to one thousand,
six hundred forty two dollars in twenty nineteen. That's a
lot of money. Here are some other stats. As reported
by the BBC, the average cost for a sponsored Instagram
post has risen forty four percent from twenty eighteen to
(10:38):
twenty nineteen alone. For a sponsored blog post, it is
soward from seven dollars and thirty nine cents and two
thousand and six to one thousand, four hundred forty two
dollars in twenty nineteen. YouTube videos command the highest fees,
four times that of the next highest price form of
sponsored content, up from four hundred ten to six thousand,
seven hundred dollars in twenty nineteen. A Facebook status update
(11:01):
has risen from eight dollars in fourteen to three hundred
dollars in twenty nineteen. A Twitter post has risen from
twenty nine dollars to four hundred twenty two dollars in
twenty nineteen, and then blog posts have risen from four
hundred and seven dollars to one thousand, four hundred forty two.
That's pretty astronomical. That's giant amounts of money. Yeah, and
(11:22):
I knew I knew some of this world, but I
didn't know this right. And I think that for all
of us this is good to know. This is good information.
A giant jump. Yes from Blueberg in quote one third
of British children at age six to seventeen wanted to
become a YouTuber, which was three times as many as
(11:43):
those who wanted to become a doctor or a nurse
a new age. It doesn't surprise me at all, though, No,
not really. Yeah, and let's take a quick snapshot of
social media users in the United States. While underrepresented in
all other types of media, women are more likely than
men to use all platforms of social media apart from LinkedIn. However,
(12:03):
men are twice as likely to get retweeted compared to women,
and some suggest that this could be fixed if women
used more traditional hashtags. And of course, women are far
far likelier to be subject to harassments, ever, bullying and abuse.
Influencers one of the few areas that women earn more
than men, outperforming them. By thirty five in the UK,
(12:23):
female influencers earned fifty more a week as compared to
the average annual salary. By twenty influencer marketing posts are
expected to reach six point twelve million. Analysts predict it
will be a ten billion dollar industry. Seventy two of
brands are leveraging a significant amount of their budgets to influencers.
Wild you need to do better. You know most articles
(12:47):
I read said there was some line in there along
along the lines of I'm in their own career. Clearly
I be doing this. It's hard. Yeah, yeah, I know.
Are a lot of arguments being made here about how
companies capitalize on women's insecurity to sell them stuff, and
social media can be a hot bed of insecurity. But
(13:08):
I would advise not dismissing the power of this or
dismissing it as not real work, because yeah, um it is.
I've seen in action and it is work. It's one
of the reasons I am early on social media. It's
like I don't have time, um, and yeah, on top
of like a full time job, it's just too much
and building up an audience is hard and it takes
(13:30):
dedication and time. And I know for people kind of
in the in the know of this, there are tricks
you can do, but even those you gotta have the money.
Being authentic in your work and being vulnerable is also
not an easy task, being always on and I bet
have men dominated this industry, we'd be having a different conversation.
(13:51):
There are also less barriers two entry for women in
this area than other career fields, and in today's day
and age. Like it or not, this is legit pathway
to stardom. Cardi b Billie Eilish kind of started in
this realm. And it is also interesting that a lot
of successful female social influencers are making money off of
things that have long been demonetized because they are devalued
(14:14):
as women's work, like crafting or or being a mom,
things like that. Um. Yeah, I've been thinking a lot
about this since we've done the research, And as someone
who works in the public sphere where your personality and
your past or a part of what you bring to
the job, I can say sometimes it's you can feel
this pressure to share parts of your life that you
(14:36):
might not want to share because you want that relationship
to be there. And I'm a very open person and
I want to share and I want people listening to
hear things that I wish someone had told me and
been honest with me about when I was younger. But
it does get hard to separate your work life and
personal life. Like I'll be out and something will happen
to me. I'm like, oh, I can talk about this
on the show, and it's one of the first things
(14:56):
I think, And it's just kind of interesting be in
a field like that, um, and you want to be
relatable and you want to be authentic, and sometimes that
can be unhealthy. I do find it interesting now that
I am now on this podcast and when I talk
about it, people tell me their experiences to be like,
maybe you should do a show on this. And it's
(15:19):
a very relatable, very common thing to do, and it
makes a lot of sense because you don't care if
it doesn't really pertain to either what you want, what
you think about, or who you would like to be,
you know what I mean. Maybe whether it's a fantasy
idea of being Kim Kardashi and like or Kylie Jenner
Rich that's the only thing I can think of them
(15:39):
I gonna lie, or whether it's you want to be
a better influence, very better person. So therefore you see
these people who do these amazing things you know you've got,
and then you kind of go out and be like,
how do I become that person? So how can I
be more relatable with that? Or yes, I experienced that,
I feel so seen the conversations that people want to
have for sure. Yeah, And and that's great and it's
(16:00):
totally totally natural and one of my favorite episodes we
ever did in the past is on paras social relationships,
which I feel like this whole thing is that, and
that's when you feel like you know somebody through like
we're watching their influencer. It's speaking the Kardashians. Yeah, the Kardashians.
Their whole show was a great example of that, and
then they moved it into social media as well, and
(16:20):
they've been very successful at it um. But it is
it can be hard if you put so much of
yourself in your your true self out there, your life
out there, because any judgments on that is a judgment
on you, and that can be hard to deal with.
So individualism, exposure, self branding, and relative ease of use
(16:41):
of social media has led to somewhat of a myth
that not only can anyone become successful and famous, but
it isn't even that hard to do so, which we
know that's not true. No, And in a lot of ways,
social media is an extension of things that have traditionally
been seen as women's weren't quote unquote, like emotional labor
and also things like image can roll and of course
(17:01):
they albeit having it all and that goes back to
what you were talking about. Earlier of kind of portraying
this view of the perfect playing happy. Yeah. Yeah. And
that's one of the reasons I'm not on social media
a lot, is because, as I've said, it's not good
for me. Even though I recognize when I'm looking on
social media, of course you're posting the best sort of
happiest things generally not everybody. People's whole lives aren't that.
(17:24):
But when that's all you're seeing, you're like, well, I'm
stuck here doing this or whatever. I will say, your
stories make me feel like I'm missing out on things,
but also really, but also it makes me exhausted so much.
Yeah no, no, I can't be there. Yeah no. If
if you've noticed something with my voice, it's because of
a recent social media story. Happy New Year, everybody. And
(17:47):
we did want to talk about feminism specifically and social
media influencers, but first we're gonna pause for a quick
break for word from our sponsor. Yeah, and we're back,
(18:08):
Thank you, sponsor. So there is a lot of anxiety
and disagreement out there when it comes to feminist social
media influencers. In some ways, especially in some areas, it
helps democratize feminism. If someone is in an isolated area
or an area where feminism largely isn't accepted, and there
may be some gate keeping unintentional or not to attend
(18:31):
feminist conferences, talks, what have you. Being a feminist social
media influencer are following a feminist social media influencer is
a way to make it more accessible and to reach
more people. It's a cheaper way to organize, and in
some ways it allows for more autonomy. For instance, some
argue that me Too never would have taken off without
(18:52):
social media influencers. And as we've talked about before, a
part of the problem of the mainstreaming of feinism are
the corporations through jump in to monetize feminism while at
the same time undercutting it. They're still trying to sell
you something at the end of the day, and now
they just put a fake feminist coating on it. Beauty
beauty brands are really bad about that. Since social media
(19:14):
influencers and podcasters generally work via sponsorships, this can be
very very tricky wire to navigate. Just as we know
we've talked about it before. Having sponsors does that mean
someone isn't a feminist or they can't be a feminist
social media influencer. But there is a lot of anxiety
around the capitalization of feminism for a lot of reasons.
It doesn't help that for some feminist social media influencers
(19:37):
there's a layer of sella activism right. Going off of that,
another criticism a feminist social media influencer is a cross
generation on one we see throughout all of history, meaning
that they didn't pay their dues. It was too easy
for them when the women before them had to put
their bodies on the line. But this again goes back
to the whole gate keeping. We need more feminists, not less,
(19:59):
and that doesn't mean that there aren't women who may
or may not label themselves as feminist capitalizing and profiting
off of the insecurities of women and girls. Of course,
kin Kardashian again is a name that comes up a
lot in this conversation. It's pretty sickening when you think
about someone with that much influenced selling lollipops that are
supposed to suppress your appetite or waste trainers to keep
(20:19):
you you're supposed to work out in those I believe
are painful looking. They do look very very painkul, especially
if you're lifting weights or something right, I will say
I've seen people work out with it um in the gym,
and I don't know if it motivates them more, but
usually halfway through the ticket off, Yeah, I imagine I
just imagine it with peach. But you know that pinch, pinch.
(20:43):
How do you say, I was really like you painch?
That is a real country, is it. Well? Regardless that
the whole selling of these things two people, especially young people,
are especially harmful once that influencer frames it as empowerment
or in the context of mental health, while exploiting and
procating off of mental health issues like eating disorders. Multiple
(21:06):
studies have shown that social media filters impact how we
see ourselves in a not insignificant amount of women and
girls have sought out cosmetic surgery to look more like
their digital selves, and unfortunately, a lot of female social
media influencers do operate within the walls of traditional femininity
and or objectification mommy blogs, fitspiration, and endless photos of
(21:29):
toned bodies. None of these things are bad necessarily, but
when that's all that we see, that becomes really damaging.
Social media and feminism might be a larger conversation than
the one we're having but this again will be something
that we need to come back on and have a
second look, obviously, because it is a bigger thing to unfold,
and while the boundaries of entry might be lower, the
(21:50):
realm of social media influencer is still largely privileged and
beauty based, and like, we need to understand that this
is a privileged industry and that people who come into it,
even though it was really hard for them to build
that up. As we talked about at that earlier part,
Caroline Callaway made everything look beautiful and had to have
a ghostwriter come behind her to make it embellished. Just
(22:13):
as a reminder, yeah, I'm I'm always a big fan
of being open about When anyone anyone ever asked me
what does it take to be a podcaster? I will
tell you straight up. I will not I will not
hide any of the details from you. Another wrinkle in
this whole thing is the phenomenon of feminist takedowns of
female influencers who do things like use photos shop. A
(22:34):
great case study of this is that of Anastasia Vito,
a model and influencer are often called the Russian Kim Kardashian.
In twenty nineteen, a user with a bunch of followers
called at Fate Girls, Kia posted a series of things
to call Outo's parents use a photoshop to enhance her features.
These post has since been deleted. The account then called
(22:57):
on his followers and numbering in the ten thousands too
guesses at the body parts Covicco photoshops in a recent
picture and so many trolls to send it on her account,
calling her fake and pathetic and for words, she made
her account private, and that kept coming back to me.
If Kim Kardashian, if this happened to her and she
had to make her account private, blows my mind. And
(23:18):
some of it has to do with this need to
expose female influencers for promoting and making a living off
of beauty standards that for many of us are unattainable
and downright unhealthy for us to chase after. So by
exposing influencers for using photoshop are the like some people
think they're doing a public service. There are so so
many accounts that do this, and many of them have thousands,
(23:40):
even millions of followers. This is another complicated issue because yes,
beauty standards are damaging, and understanding that the look you
feel like you have to have was actually a product
of photoshop is a good thing. We could go on
and on about the negative old outcomes of comparing yourself
to a celebrity and trying to look like that and
punishing yourself when you don't look that, but so often
(24:01):
these exposure accounts just give a sanctioned space to attack
and tear other women down. Some influencers have even reported
exposure accounts not only for harassment, but for posting pictures
of them altered to make them look worse. Even though
for better or worse, it has become normal for men
to alter their appearances, whether through photoshop or cosmetic surgery.
(24:22):
These exposure accounts focus almost exclusively on women, and some
accounts focus on specifically exposing one woman right and for instance,
Jessica Celesque. After serving for seven years in the U. S. Army,
she pivoted to modeling, but one exposure account popped up
to concentrate fully on her, posting pictures on their account
that were photoshop to make her look heavier. A lot
(24:43):
are candidate pictures of her. This account only had a
few hundred followers, which still, by the way, sucks. He
shouldn't exist but it got picked up by the same
exposure account we mentioned earlier, which has of course, way
way way more followings. And this got picked up by
the verified mel YouTuber and his hundreds and thousands of followers,
which he used in part to ridicule female influencers. And
(25:05):
you can imagine all of the comments calling her flabby,
a slot, that she needs to go to the gym,
and of course blah blah blah blah blah with all
the damn judgments. Yeah. In an earlier iteration of this,
Jezebel offered ten thousand dollars for the untouched photos of
a Vogue photoshoot with Lena Dunham. Hours later, hours later,
(25:28):
they had it and posted before and after pictures with
arrows demarcating all of the changes. They claimed that this
was an effort to demonstrate how quote insane and unattainable
beauty standards are for women, but Donald said it just
felt gross. And of course we've seen celebrities take this
into their own hands, posting unretouched photos of photo shoots,
but we've also talked about how that could be damaging too,
(25:51):
and there are whole apps now to make a photo
look unretouched. So some of those photos are quote fake
as well. Some exposure counts do post pictures with the
subject's consent showing before and after. So there's ways to
do this without shaming and attacking other women. Right, we
can talk about the random people who like to pull
photos just to make fun of people, not knowing who
(26:13):
they are. And these strangers come up and seeing themselves
being completely ridiculed. Why why yeah? And uh yeah, this
really pisces me off. There's this impossible beauty standard that
you have to live up to. Are you're worthless and
gross you if you use makeup and cosmetic surgery or
(26:36):
photoshop to get it? I hate it. I like it
almost eating feisty. Hello twenty twenty. Time to speak out,
and I agree the whole bullshit being one thing without
being the other. Because if you're too much or too little,
it makes someone nervous, you know, So respect my uncomfortable
nous and please just go by my rules and my standards,
(26:56):
because ak haters of Lizzo, our Analytics and Blue Ivy,
they should be comforted somehow because they're uncomfortable with whatever appears.
This person may be comfortable with themselves, and that's such absurdity,
whether it's finally accepting who you are and being happy
and learning to love yourself instead of I don't know,
(27:18):
hating yourself, hiding away from the world and wishing everything
would disappear, to actually finally feeling comfortable with who you
are and loving or at least becoming one with who
you are. You know what I mean. And I do
understand why it is that we want to lash out
with people being comfortable with themselves, because this is of
course us projecting our own fears and a lot of
(27:38):
times having the need to speak out about something because
you're unhappy or they're unhappy, which is unnecessary, and then
to make money off of that, such as that website
we're talking about that just takes women and rips them apart,
and just for fun of it, just to gain attention.
It makes no sense and it's such b us. It
is unnecessary. It is we can do better than this.
(28:02):
And I was, I was thinking about this, and I
wondered if add something to do with power, like how
unfortunately women's currency is their looks, and there's resentment for
women gaming the system and making money through what some
people view is cheating, while others are pissed that they're
participating and benefiting from the system at all, our anger
(28:22):
that we ourselves feel like we can't use the tools
that person is using. Because a lot of these accounts,
these exposure accounts, are run by women. A lot of
them have something like not a hate account and or
here for your self esteem in their bios, and I
read a lot of interviews with people who run these accounts,
and some of them they've heard from a lot of
(28:42):
people who said, thank you, you helped me with my
self confidence because I kept comparing myself to celebrities. But
the comments in general, they don't seem to reflect that.
A bunch of criticizing how women look, probably your sexuality,
probably calling her a slut, and then several from women
and girls asking oh yeah, but really though, what lip
fillers did they use, or what what makeup? What editing
(29:04):
app It doesn't reflect this. Whatever they're espousing, what they
say here for yourself to stee I don't know. This
is definitely a passive aggressive way of being, Hey, yeah,
I'm helping you, but also I want to damage someone
else to help others. And I'm sure that it did helps.
I don't doubt that at all. I I remember the
(29:24):
day when I had a moment of Oh, I wonder.
I mean, if it was my job to look good,
I bet are really really good. I mean, that's that's
the reality is that a lot of these celebrities, they
have the tools the whether it's the trainer or whether
it's the chef, whether there is a nutitionist um that's
(29:44):
all lovely, whether it's the makeup team fantastic. That's that.
I think we all could agree that would be something
that would help us all look wonderful and look like
we have the beuz. But there's this whole level again
of having and being all. That's this non physical, damaging
idea of you must be the perfect mix of something,
but you better be natural because if not, you're not
(30:05):
worth our time. If you can't be all these things
to all people, then you have no importance and need
to be silenced. That's just just an absurd idea. And
once again, yes, these people maybe whatever fantastic, right, you
look amazing, your skin as flaw as beautiful, whatever, what
the hellever. But yeah, it takes work. And for those
who may come naturally, because I mean, I say a
(30:25):
lot of people with wonderful skin, and I'm just like, wow,
let tell me how you get that skin, and it's genetics.
There's no need to go after them either. Appreciate with
who they are in the story, and if you can
afford it and it makes you happy, then do it.
If it doesn't make you happy, then you need to
question why you're doing it. Yeah. Yeah, And this whole
(30:48):
thing kind of reminds you what we talked about in
the in Sales episode, about that whole thing of judging
women for wearing makeup and cosmetic surgery. It's almost a
more mainstream way of doing that. Using social media influencers,
especially in the mind field of inauthentic or out of
touchway can majorly backfire. Think Kendall Jenner and that very
(31:11):
poorly thought out pepsi ad. More than one influencer has
been brought down by m false cancer cure claims, for instance,
and we should say too, as many of you probably know,
spawn con are sponsored content has recently been subject to
more scrutiny and regulations. Some diet related posts have been
banned by Instagram for being irresponsible. Governments has stated that
(31:33):
being unclear about sponsorships and posts might violate laws. The
Federal Trade Commission recently issued new guidelines requiring influencers are
explicit about who's paying for post. Fake followers is a
new troubling trend as well. Right, Instagram did pretty well
and trying to get rid of those fake followers of
bought followers a few years ago, which is which was
(31:53):
kind of funny because the significant decline in a lot
of supposed influencers followership, it was almost comical. Yeah, yeah,
I think these are good things that, Like I said,
I really don't have necessarily in general problem with it,
but I think you should be upfront with whatever it is,
be honest. Yes, uh, And we do have a little
(32:18):
bit more a good good note to end on, perhaps,
but first we have one more quick break for word
from our sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor, And yeah,
(32:40):
it's not all bad. We did want to end on
this quote that we really liked from feminist and activists
Shina mcgenia. No matter how our ideas and iterations of
feminism manifest, we should never shift our focus from the issues.
We should not forget that this same internet, we're self centered,
selfie feminists, occupied space and power is itself a side
(33:00):
of oppression, and the existence of this voice, whether it
speaks for us or not, is resistance. The Internet and
social media in particular has the effect of a microscope
where we stop looking at the whole peachtree disc of
fungus fall around this one bacteria. Our fight should always
be against structures of social, cultural, political, economic, and environmental
power that oppress us and force us to either horde
(33:22):
space and resources or carve it out for ourselves and
on our own terms. Now more than ever, we need
solidarity with and for our selfie taking, natural hair care, vlogging,
feminist fashion selling, anything goes social media feminist influencers. We
don't have enough of them, and the few that dare
make popular or difficult politics are facing considerable amount of backlash.
(33:44):
Feminists that they're the best way they know how to
occupy whatever space and influence they can, even when what
is being sold as feminism light. We must stand in
solidarity with them. The quiet, introverted it an offline feminist
can coexist with a loud, self absorbed online feminist. We
have to believe that we dream of a feminist future
where we take turns to stand in the hot sun.
Believe it or not, the Twitter feminist who are doing
(34:06):
this blood, sweat and tears work Boom. I love it.
It's a good one. I love it. The whole article
is really great if if anyone's interested, highly recommend you
go and check it out. And yeah, that's about what
we have to say. Goodness dan On absolutely absolutely I
love it. And if you would like to email us
(34:27):
about social media influencers are influencing or anything else, you can.
Our email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at iHeart media
dot com. You can also find us on Twitter at
mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram that Stuff I've Never
Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer Andrew Howard,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I'm Never Told You.
(34:48):
The protection of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For
more podcast from HIGHERT Radio is the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows
all
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff.
I'm never told your production of I Heart Radios how
stuff works. Today. Today we are talking about social media influencers. Yes,
(00:26):
and since the new year brings with it hope and
aspirations and goals, and for a lot of us, that
means social media and social media influencers maybe might be
part of that. Um Before we get into it, rigger
warning for very very brief mention of eating disorders HOWD.
A year ago, I was sent some sort of influencer
application for travel and I almost did a fittake. I
(00:50):
guess that's the thing now, is what you excited about?
Is that why I'm definitely not an influencercer. I was
told that we you are we as a unit. Okay,
all excellent, but I mean you're bigger because you have
two great shows and you're a movie star. That sense.
(01:13):
Thank you. Um. I did not apply. I did not
feel up the application. Maybe next time, if I ever
received another one, I'll think about it more. Seriously, it's time,
it's time, it's far, it's been time. I want to
start this out by saying I don't really have a
problem with influencers as long as they're upfront about their
(01:33):
sponsors and in general aren't peddling unhealthy beauty standards and
products to achieve those beauty standards or anti feminist rhetoric.
But I am always, always, always a big proponent of
understanding the messages we and younger folks, if you have children,
get through the media. We can soon do your own research.
Don't get stuck in that comparison trap. And I also
(01:55):
a spouse, a responsible wielding of power in a perfect
role that would mean something like fact checking, right um,
I think I would say that there is a huge
responsibility in the words you speak, So think about the
funny equips or inside jokes you're about to tweet, and
take responsibility when you do something wrong or you say
something incorrectly, I guess, or as you may think, is
(02:17):
it misinterpreted. Just being very careful of realizing once it's
out there, it's out there, it's never truly gone, including
admitting when you're playing happy quote unquote. And I say
that in trying to make yourself look perfect, being perfect,
which is seemingly some of the ideas of influencers who
are now kind of backtracking and talking and having a
(02:39):
little more realistic take of their life. But essentially one
of the reasons people are influencers I'm seeing is because
they seem seem to have a perfect life which is
completely fake and being completely happy all the time. Um.
And then one of the reasons you and I started
talking again about influencers because I know that's been a
subject before, and how they came to you is due
(03:00):
to the Natalie Beach and um Caroline Kellaway incident that
happened in September, which was this whole moment in which
Caroline Callaway was a giant Instagram influencer. Turns out Natalie
Beach was her ghostwriter for her the captions, which apparently
is a thing that's a big thing and I don't
know much about it makes sense, why not, UM, have
your agency, have your publicists, they all take care of
(03:22):
the social media aspect. For us, it's typically us is
doing it. UM. By the way, I'm trying to figure
out some things because our website changed, so that's kind
of yeah, so I'm kind of like, oh, no, how
do I do this? Yes, but it also began to
be a tell all scandal because Callaway also ended up
(03:42):
doing a breach of contract for a book deal that
she had and then um, she had an event that
went wonky, so kind of wasn't like, you know, what
is that fire fire festival that kind of fire festival,
very downgraded disaster level. Essentially, she kept canceling and canceling canceling.
People were very upset because you know, they thought they
were going to be able to meet her do all
(04:03):
these amazing things to learn how to be influencers as well.
And then Beach had this again tell all essay um
in which she kind of just drags their friendship. It
turns out to be kind of a toxic friendship, which
we hear many times and many a relationships growing up.
It just happened to be on that level. Escalated pretty
(04:25):
quickly in that time frame. I think, and and and,
as Rolling Stone Magazine stays, it combusted and they as
they would say once again that yeah, this is kind
of the ultimate expectation and downfall of the industry, which
is an industry now. But yeah, that's kind of one
of the reasons I was very interested in you and
I started talking about it. I was like, what is
(04:46):
this world that's getting bigger and bigger and that you
can crash and burn so significantly. So anyway, with that,
what are we talking about with this? Well, I can
tell you some at that, Yes, tell me what does
it mean to be a social media influencer? Well from
a research paper titled who are the Social Media Influencers?
(05:08):
A Study of public Perceptions of Personality? Authored in tent
by Karen Freberg, Kristen Graham, and Karen mcgaughy and Lauren A. Freeburg,
social media influencers are s m I s represent a
new type of independent third party endorser who shaped audience
attitudes through blogs, tweets, and the use of other social media. Okay,
so that's a lot by being authentic with their audiences.
(05:32):
They are recommendations of products and services, drive sales and traffic.
They come in two main types, celebrity and micro. Obviously
one has a bigger audience and that's a bigger reach.
A lot of influencers are niche, focusing specifically on beauty
or being a mom, what have you. This is where
we get terms like in staff, fame, our YouTube star,
(05:53):
YouTube started. They have their own awards show I know, book,
I have a YouTube award, Samantha. I don't know if
you knew this about so you are a YouTube star. Okay,
but I did produce the show that they got an
award that this show actually so Promo Republic breaks it
down even more. Celebrities, artists, politicians, public people who have
(06:15):
one million followers and each of their post gain up
to five percent engagement. The impact comes from their status
and personal brand, which obvious you would know. Macro influencers
are people who have less than one million followers and
each of their post gain up to tien percent engagement.
Their expertise generate with a specific category and it can
be anything from traveling to business development. And then there
(06:35):
are micro influencers, and these are people who have at
least five d followers. Most of their post gain more
than engagement. These individuals build real engagement with the brand
and have a unique relationship with their audience. Such close
relations in a certain niche can bring really outstanding results
in terms of promotion of any company planning to cooperate
(06:56):
with this expert, they also had this interesting st at remember,
the best way to collaborate with a certain expert in
social media is to work according to the one Internet
users consume the content, whereas only one person to produced
the original one that makes sense. I suppose a recreations
or retweets or read things, so that that makes sense. Okay, Yeah,
(07:21):
And then in fun fact, the term micro celebrity was
first coined in two thousand one by Teresa and since
when she was researching cam girls. People are or can
be really really loyal to their social media influencers. For example,
water from influencer Belle Delphin's bathtub was sold for thirty
dollars and you yeah, and she wasn't even her idea.
(07:42):
People were you know, suggesting it and then she put
it in water bottles and sold it for thirty dollars
and apparently sold out, sold out. It's sold out. And
in case you're wondering what, you probably weren't but I was. Yes,
there are artificial intelligence created influencers like little Michaela. She
has over well she it has over a million followers,
(08:05):
not even real million followers. Influencer, this is the future.
A confluence of things allowed for the rise of the influencer,
which I think should be the next Star Wars movie.
Rise of the influencer. One was the availability of the
technology and widespread use of social media. Second, a growing
distrust for companies, and one survey, half of the social
(08:28):
media users indicated they'd unfollow a brand if it was
marketing too aggressively. Influencers are a way of circumventing that,
like getting a product recommendation from a friend. Yeah, you know,
I was just thinking about the T Mobile guy. Everybody
was really annoyed by his brand and he was losing
his you know, losing his mind, trying to be remembered
(08:49):
as the CEO, and so he bought all these ad
space be like, hey, you want free things, I got
free things. I'm the t You don't know me, I'm
the T Mobile CEO. And it was so annoying. People
were like, that was the main conversation was you're annoying,
please stop this, begging him to stop. Yeah, and that
I mean, we certainly had conversations in my friend group
(09:10):
about how if you see too much of an adverse something,
it turns you off of that thing, Like maybe you
would want to see this movie, but fifteen commercials within
two minutes later, you don't want to see it anymore.
So I yeah, I get that an influencer can be
a way to not have to deal with that, And
in theory, you're getting an authentic because that is a
big piece of this which we're going to talk about
(09:31):
a little bit more. An authentic recommendation. Influencers have on average,
the same or higher return on investment than traditional advertising.
Instagram is viewed as the most profitable, with almost influencers
indicating it as their primary platform. I found so many
blogs and articles directed at putting companies in touch with
(09:53):
the right influencers. It blew my mind how much they
should offer to pay. It's like this whole bidding system
fascinating from tenuity. Instagram influencers get you you need about
a thousand dollars per one hundred thousand followers. Snapchat influencers
starts at five hundred dollars per campaign in twenty four hours.
YouTube influencers roughly two thousand per one hundred thousand followers.
(10:17):
You can see how that would add up pretty quick.
At the average price for a sponsored Instagram post jumped
from a hundred thirty four dollars in fourteen to one thousand,
six hundred forty two dollars in twenty nineteen. That's a
lot of money. Here are some other stats. As reported
by the BBC, the average cost for a sponsored Instagram
post has risen forty four percent from twenty eighteen to
(10:38):
twenty nineteen alone. For a sponsored blog post, it is
soward from seven dollars and thirty nine cents and two
thousand and six to one thousand, four hundred forty two
dollars in twenty nineteen. YouTube videos command the highest fees,
four times that of the next highest price form of
sponsored content, up from four hundred ten to six thousand,
seven hundred dollars in twenty nineteen. A Facebook status update
(11:01):
has risen from eight dollars in fourteen to three hundred
dollars in twenty nineteen. A Twitter post has risen from
twenty nine dollars to four hundred twenty two dollars in
twenty nineteen, and then blog posts have risen from four
hundred and seven dollars to one thousand, four hundred forty two.
That's pretty astronomical. That's giant amounts of money. Yeah, and
(11:22):
I knew I knew some of this world, but I
didn't know this right. And I think that for all
of us this is good to know. This is good information.
A giant jump. Yes from Blueberg in quote one third
of British children at age six to seventeen wanted to
become a YouTuber, which was three times as many as
(11:43):
those who wanted to become a doctor or a nurse
a new age. It doesn't surprise me at all, though, No,
not really. Yeah, and let's take a quick snapshot of
social media users in the United States. While underrepresented in
all other types of media, women are more likely than
men to use all platforms of social media apart from LinkedIn. However,
(12:03):
men are twice as likely to get retweeted compared to women,
and some suggest that this could be fixed if women
used more traditional hashtags. And of course, women are far
far likelier to be subject to harassments, ever, bullying and abuse.
Influencers one of the few areas that women earn more
than men, outperforming them. By thirty five in the UK,
(12:23):
female influencers earned fifty more a week as compared to
the average annual salary. By twenty influencer marketing posts are
expected to reach six point twelve million. Analysts predict it
will be a ten billion dollar industry. Seventy two of
brands are leveraging a significant amount of their budgets to influencers.
Wild you need to do better. You know most articles
(12:47):
I read said there was some line in there along
along the lines of I'm in their own career. Clearly
I be doing this. It's hard. Yeah, yeah, I know.
Are a lot of arguments being made here about how
companies capitalize on women's insecurity to sell them stuff, and
social media can be a hot bed of insecurity. But
(13:08):
I would advise not dismissing the power of this or
dismissing it as not real work, because yeah, um it is.
I've seen in action and it is work. It's one
of the reasons I am early on social media. It's
like I don't have time, um, and yeah, on top
of like a full time job, it's just too much
and building up an audience is hard and it takes
(13:30):
dedication and time. And I know for people kind of
in the in the know of this, there are tricks
you can do, but even those you gotta have the money.
Being authentic in your work and being vulnerable is also
not an easy task, being always on and I bet
have men dominated this industry, we'd be having a different conversation.
(13:51):
There are also less barriers two entry for women in
this area than other career fields, and in today's day
and age. Like it or not, this is legit pathway
to stardom. Cardi b Billie Eilish kind of started in
this realm. And it is also interesting that a lot
of successful female social influencers are making money off of
things that have long been demonetized because they are devalued
(14:14):
as women's work, like crafting or or being a mom,
things like that. Um. Yeah, I've been thinking a lot
about this since we've done the research, And as someone
who works in the public sphere where your personality and
your past or a part of what you bring to
the job, I can say sometimes it's you can feel
this pressure to share parts of your life that you
(14:36):
might not want to share because you want that relationship
to be there. And I'm a very open person and
I want to share and I want people listening to
hear things that I wish someone had told me and
been honest with me about when I was younger. But
it does get hard to separate your work life and
personal life. Like I'll be out and something will happen
to me. I'm like, oh, I can talk about this
on the show, and it's one of the first things
(14:56):
I think, And it's just kind of interesting be in
a field like that, um, and you want to be
relatable and you want to be authentic, and sometimes that
can be unhealthy. I do find it interesting now that
I am now on this podcast and when I talk
about it, people tell me their experiences to be like,
maybe you should do a show on this. And it's
(15:19):
a very relatable, very common thing to do, and it
makes a lot of sense because you don't care if
it doesn't really pertain to either what you want, what
you think about, or who you would like to be,
you know what I mean. Maybe whether it's a fantasy
idea of being Kim Kardashi and like or Kylie Jenner
Rich that's the only thing I can think of them
(15:39):
I gonna lie, or whether it's you want to be
a better influence, very better person. So therefore you see
these people who do these amazing things you know you've got,
and then you kind of go out and be like,
how do I become that person? So how can I
be more relatable with that? Or yes, I experienced that,
I feel so seen the conversations that people want to
have for sure. Yeah, And and that's great and it's
(16:00):
totally totally natural and one of my favorite episodes we
ever did in the past is on paras social relationships,
which I feel like this whole thing is that, and
that's when you feel like you know somebody through like
we're watching their influencer. It's speaking the Kardashians. Yeah, the Kardashians.
Their whole show was a great example of that, and
then they moved it into social media as well, and
(16:20):
they've been very successful at it um. But it is
it can be hard if you put so much of
yourself in your your true self out there, your life
out there, because any judgments on that is a judgment
on you, and that can be hard to deal with.
So individualism, exposure, self branding, and relative ease of use
(16:41):
of social media has led to somewhat of a myth
that not only can anyone become successful and famous, but
it isn't even that hard to do so, which we
know that's not true. No, And in a lot of ways,
social media is an extension of things that have traditionally
been seen as women's weren't quote unquote, like emotional labor
and also things like image can roll and of course
(17:01):
they albeit having it all and that goes back to
what you were talking about. Earlier of kind of portraying
this view of the perfect playing happy. Yeah. Yeah. And
that's one of the reasons I'm not on social media
a lot, is because, as I've said, it's not good
for me. Even though I recognize when I'm looking on
social media, of course you're posting the best sort of
happiest things generally not everybody. People's whole lives aren't that.
(17:24):
But when that's all you're seeing, you're like, well, I'm
stuck here doing this or whatever. I will say, your
stories make me feel like I'm missing out on things,
but also really, but also it makes me exhausted so much.
Yeah no, no, I can't be there. Yeah no. If
if you've noticed something with my voice, it's because of
a recent social media story. Happy New Year, everybody. And
(17:47):
we did want to talk about feminism specifically and social
media influencers, but first we're gonna pause for a quick
break for word from our sponsor. Yeah, and we're back,
(18:08):
Thank you, sponsor. So there is a lot of anxiety
and disagreement out there when it comes to feminist social
media influencers. In some ways, especially in some areas, it
helps democratize feminism. If someone is in an isolated area
or an area where feminism largely isn't accepted, and there
may be some gate keeping unintentional or not to attend
(18:31):
feminist conferences, talks, what have you. Being a feminist social
media influencer are following a feminist social media influencer is
a way to make it more accessible and to reach
more people. It's a cheaper way to organize, and in
some ways it allows for more autonomy. For instance, some
argue that me Too never would have taken off without
(18:52):
social media influencers. And as we've talked about before, a
part of the problem of the mainstreaming of feinism are
the corporations through jump in to monetize feminism while at
the same time undercutting it. They're still trying to sell
you something at the end of the day, and now
they just put a fake feminist coating on it. Beauty
beauty brands are really bad about that. Since social media
(19:14):
influencers and podcasters generally work via sponsorships, this can be
very very tricky wire to navigate. Just as we know
we've talked about it before. Having sponsors does that mean
someone isn't a feminist or they can't be a feminist
social media influencer. But there is a lot of anxiety
around the capitalization of feminism for a lot of reasons.
It doesn't help that for some feminist social media influencers
(19:37):
there's a layer of sella activism right. Going off of that,
another criticism a feminist social media influencer is a cross
generation on one we see throughout all of history, meaning
that they didn't pay their dues. It was too easy
for them when the women before them had to put
their bodies on the line. But this again goes back
to the whole gate keeping. We need more feminists, not less,
(19:59):
and that doesn't mean that there aren't women who may
or may not label themselves as feminist capitalizing and profiting
off of the insecurities of women and girls. Of course,
kin Kardashian again is a name that comes up a
lot in this conversation. It's pretty sickening when you think
about someone with that much influenced selling lollipops that are
supposed to suppress your appetite or waste trainers to keep
(20:19):
you you're supposed to work out in those I believe
are painful looking. They do look very very painkul, especially
if you're lifting weights or something right, I will say
I've seen people work out with it um in the gym,
and I don't know if it motivates them more, but
usually halfway through the ticket off, Yeah, I imagine I
just imagine it with peach. But you know that pinch, pinch.
(20:43):
How do you say, I was really like you painch?
That is a real country, is it. Well? Regardless that
the whole selling of these things two people, especially young people,
are especially harmful once that influencer frames it as empowerment
or in the context of mental health, while exploiting and
procating off of mental health issues like eating disorders. Multiple
(21:06):
studies have shown that social media filters impact how we
see ourselves in a not insignificant amount of women and
girls have sought out cosmetic surgery to look more like
their digital selves, and unfortunately, a lot of female social
media influencers do operate within the walls of traditional femininity
and or objectification mommy blogs, fitspiration, and endless photos of
(21:29):
toned bodies. None of these things are bad necessarily, but
when that's all that we see, that becomes really damaging.
Social media and feminism might be a larger conversation than
the one we're having but this again will be something
that we need to come back on and have a
second look, obviously, because it is a bigger thing to unfold,
and while the boundaries of entry might be lower, the
(21:50):
realm of social media influencer is still largely privileged and
beauty based, and like, we need to understand that this
is a privileged industry and that people who come into it,
even though it was really hard for them to build
that up. As we talked about at that earlier part,
Caroline Callaway made everything look beautiful and had to have
a ghostwriter come behind her to make it embellished. Just
(22:13):
as a reminder, yeah, I'm I'm always a big fan
of being open about When anyone anyone ever asked me
what does it take to be a podcaster? I will
tell you straight up. I will not I will not
hide any of the details from you. Another wrinkle in
this whole thing is the phenomenon of feminist takedowns of
female influencers who do things like use photos shop. A
(22:34):
great case study of this is that of Anastasia Vito,
a model and influencer are often called the Russian Kim Kardashian.
In twenty nineteen, a user with a bunch of followers
called at Fate Girls, Kia posted a series of things
to call Outo's parents use a photoshop to enhance her features.
These post has since been deleted. The account then called
(22:57):
on his followers and numbering in the ten thousands too
guesses at the body parts Covicco photoshops in a recent
picture and so many trolls to send it on her account,
calling her fake and pathetic and for words, she made
her account private, and that kept coming back to me.
If Kim Kardashian, if this happened to her and she
had to make her account private, blows my mind. And
(23:18):
some of it has to do with this need to
expose female influencers for promoting and making a living off
of beauty standards that for many of us are unattainable
and downright unhealthy for us to chase after. So by
exposing influencers for using photoshop are the like some people
think they're doing a public service. There are so so
many accounts that do this, and many of them have thousands,
(23:40):
even millions of followers. This is another complicated issue because yes,
beauty standards are damaging, and understanding that the look you
feel like you have to have was actually a product
of photoshop is a good thing. We could go on
and on about the negative old outcomes of comparing yourself
to a celebrity and trying to look like that and
punishing yourself when you don't look that, but so often
(24:01):
these exposure accounts just give a sanctioned space to attack
and tear other women down. Some influencers have even reported
exposure accounts not only for harassment, but for posting pictures
of them altered to make them look worse. Even though
for better or worse, it has become normal for men
to alter their appearances, whether through photoshop or cosmetic surgery.
(24:22):
These exposure accounts focus almost exclusively on women, and some
accounts focus on specifically exposing one woman right and for instance,
Jessica Celesque. After serving for seven years in the U. S. Army,
she pivoted to modeling, but one exposure account popped up
to concentrate fully on her, posting pictures on their account
that were photoshop to make her look heavier. A lot
(24:43):
are candidate pictures of her. This account only had a
few hundred followers, which still, by the way, sucks. He
shouldn't exist but it got picked up by the same
exposure account we mentioned earlier, which has of course, way
way way more followings. And this got picked up by
the verified mel YouTuber and his hundreds and thousands of followers,
which he used in part to ridicule female influencers. And
(25:05):
you can imagine all of the comments calling her flabby,
a slot, that she needs to go to the gym,
and of course blah blah blah blah blah with all
the damn judgments. Yeah. In an earlier iteration of this,
Jezebel offered ten thousand dollars for the untouched photos of
a Vogue photoshoot with Lena Dunham. Hours later, hours later,
(25:28):
they had it and posted before and after pictures with
arrows demarcating all of the changes. They claimed that this
was an effort to demonstrate how quote insane and unattainable
beauty standards are for women, but Donald said it just
felt gross. And of course we've seen celebrities take this
into their own hands, posting unretouched photos of photo shoots,
but we've also talked about how that could be damaging too,
(25:51):
and there are whole apps now to make a photo
look unretouched. So some of those photos are quote fake
as well. Some exposure counts do post pictures with the
subject's consent showing before and after. So there's ways to
do this without shaming and attacking other women. Right, we
can talk about the random people who like to pull
photos just to make fun of people, not knowing who
(26:13):
they are. And these strangers come up and seeing themselves
being completely ridiculed. Why why yeah? And uh yeah, this
really pisces me off. There's this impossible beauty standard that
you have to live up to. Are you're worthless and
gross you if you use makeup and cosmetic surgery or
(26:36):
photoshop to get it? I hate it. I like it
almost eating feisty. Hello twenty twenty. Time to speak out,
and I agree the whole bullshit being one thing without
being the other. Because if you're too much or too little,
it makes someone nervous, you know, So respect my uncomfortable
nous and please just go by my rules and my standards,
(26:56):
because ak haters of Lizzo, our Analytics and Blue Ivy,
they should be comforted somehow because they're uncomfortable with whatever appears.
This person may be comfortable with themselves, and that's such absurdity,
whether it's finally accepting who you are and being happy
and learning to love yourself instead of I don't know,
(27:18):
hating yourself, hiding away from the world and wishing everything
would disappear, to actually finally feeling comfortable with who you
are and loving or at least becoming one with who
you are. You know what I mean. And I do
understand why it is that we want to lash out
with people being comfortable with themselves, because this is of
course us projecting our own fears and a lot of
(27:38):
times having the need to speak out about something because
you're unhappy or they're unhappy, which is unnecessary, and then
to make money off of that, such as that website
we're talking about that just takes women and rips them apart,
and just for fun of it, just to gain attention.
It makes no sense and it's such b us. It
is unnecessary. It is we can do better than this.
(28:02):
And I was, I was thinking about this, and I
wondered if add something to do with power, like how
unfortunately women's currency is their looks, and there's resentment for
women gaming the system and making money through what some
people view is cheating, while others are pissed that they're
participating and benefiting from the system at all, our anger
(28:22):
that we ourselves feel like we can't use the tools
that person is using. Because a lot of these accounts,
these exposure accounts, are run by women. A lot of
them have something like not a hate account and or
here for your self esteem in their bios, and I
read a lot of interviews with people who run these accounts,
and some of them they've heard from a lot of
(28:42):
people who said, thank you, you helped me with my
self confidence because I kept comparing myself to celebrities. But
the comments in general, they don't seem to reflect that.
A bunch of criticizing how women look, probably your sexuality,
probably calling her a slut, and then several from women
and girls asking oh yeah, but really though, what lip
fillers did they use, or what what makeup? What editing
(29:04):
app It doesn't reflect this. Whatever they're espousing, what they
say here for yourself to stee I don't know. This
is definitely a passive aggressive way of being, Hey, yeah,
I'm helping you, but also I want to damage someone
else to help others. And I'm sure that it did helps.
I don't doubt that at all. I I remember the
(29:24):
day when I had a moment of Oh, I wonder.
I mean, if it was my job to look good,
I bet are really really good. I mean, that's that's
the reality is that a lot of these celebrities, they
have the tools the whether it's the trainer or whether
it's the chef, whether there is a nutitionist um that's
(29:44):
all lovely, whether it's the makeup team fantastic. That's that.
I think we all could agree that would be something
that would help us all look wonderful and look like
we have the beuz. But there's this whole level again
of having and being all. That's this non physical, damaging
idea of you must be the perfect mix of something,
but you better be natural because if not, you're not
(30:05):
worth our time. If you can't be all these things
to all people, then you have no importance and need
to be silenced. That's just just an absurd idea. And
once again, yes, these people maybe whatever fantastic, right, you
look amazing, your skin as flaw as beautiful, whatever, what
the hellever. But yeah, it takes work. And for those
who may come naturally, because I mean, I say a
(30:25):
lot of people with wonderful skin, and I'm just like, wow,
let tell me how you get that skin, and it's genetics.
There's no need to go after them either. Appreciate with
who they are in the story, and if you can
afford it and it makes you happy, then do it.
If it doesn't make you happy, then you need to
question why you're doing it. Yeah. Yeah, And this whole
(30:48):
thing kind of reminds you what we talked about in
the in Sales episode, about that whole thing of judging
women for wearing makeup and cosmetic surgery. It's almost a
more mainstream way of doing that. Using social media influencers,
especially in the mind field of inauthentic or out of
touchway can majorly backfire. Think Kendall Jenner and that very
(31:11):
poorly thought out pepsi ad. More than one influencer has
been brought down by m false cancer cure claims, for instance,
and we should say too, as many of you probably know,
spawn con are sponsored content has recently been subject to
more scrutiny and regulations. Some diet related posts have been
banned by Instagram for being irresponsible. Governments has stated that
(31:33):
being unclear about sponsorships and posts might violate laws. The
Federal Trade Commission recently issued new guidelines requiring influencers are
explicit about who's paying for post. Fake followers is a
new troubling trend as well. Right, Instagram did pretty well
and trying to get rid of those fake followers of
bought followers a few years ago, which is which was
(31:53):
kind of funny because the significant decline in a lot
of supposed influencers followership, it was almost comical. Yeah, yeah,
I think these are good things that, Like I said,
I really don't have necessarily in general problem with it,
but I think you should be upfront with whatever it is,
be honest. Yes, uh, And we do have a little
(32:18):
bit more a good good note to end on, perhaps,
but first we have one more quick break for word
from our sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor, And yeah,
(32:40):
it's not all bad. We did want to end on
this quote that we really liked from feminist and activists
Shina mcgenia. No matter how our ideas and iterations of
feminism manifest, we should never shift our focus from the issues.
We should not forget that this same internet, we're self centered,
selfie feminists, occupied space and power is itself a side
(33:00):
of oppression, and the existence of this voice, whether it
speaks for us or not, is resistance. The Internet and
social media in particular has the effect of a microscope
where we stop looking at the whole peachtree disc of
fungus fall around this one bacteria. Our fight should always
be against structures of social, cultural, political, economic, and environmental
power that oppress us and force us to either horde
(33:22):
space and resources or carve it out for ourselves and
on our own terms. Now more than ever, we need
solidarity with and for our selfie taking, natural hair care, vlogging,
feminist fashion selling, anything goes social media feminist influencers. We
don't have enough of them, and the few that dare
make popular or difficult politics are facing considerable amount of backlash.
(33:44):
Feminists that they're the best way they know how to
occupy whatever space and influence they can, even when what
is being sold as feminism light. We must stand in
solidarity with them. The quiet, introverted it an offline feminist
can coexist with a loud, self absorbed online feminist. We
have to believe that we dream of a feminist future
where we take turns to stand in the hot sun.
Believe it or not, the Twitter feminist who are doing
(34:06):
this blood, sweat and tears work Boom. I love it.
It's a good one. I love it. The whole article
is really great if if anyone's interested, highly recommend you
go and check it out. And yeah, that's about what
we have to say. Goodness dan On absolutely absolutely I
love it. And if you would like to email us
(34:27):
about social media influencers are influencing or anything else, you can.
Our email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at iHeart media
dot com. You can also find us on Twitter at
mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram that Stuff I've Never
Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer Andrew Howard,
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I'm Never Told You.
(34:48):
The protection of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For
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