The Real Queen Victoria

How did Queen Victoria's personal life set the tone for the entire Victorian era? Holly from Stuff You Missed in History Class stops by to dish about the fascinating life and times of the her favorite royal, Queen Victoria.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You. From how Supports
dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline
and I'm Kristen. We have a special guest today and
that is Polly Fry. Oh my god, we're borrowing another
podcaster I love to come and visits. Well, I love

(00:24):
it too. And Holly Fry, for those of you who
have been living under a podcast rock for a while,
is co host of Stuff He Missed in History class,
so wildly popular history podcast. This word sounds odd and
stressful to me, but I'm just speaking the truth. Well,
you are wild and you are stressful. It sounds like

(00:47):
a weird eighties power film for women. Suddenly you are wild. Well, well,
we are wearing shoulder pads and power suits as we
sit here, because that's what one does wear when talking
about Queen Victoria, are you naturally? That's right? And we
are also wearing giant crotchless underpants to accompany this episode
as well. Yeah, that's not your usual jam or not

(01:10):
not on Wednesdays? No, not usually a right then? Yeah,
but no, that is a reference actually to Queen Victoria's
under where I'm not just throwing out random panty references. Yeah,
and if people listen to our history of Banty's episode,
they would know that Fanty's undepends. We did a history
on undergarment's way back when I first was on History,
when Sarah was still here, and we talked at length

(01:32):
about that. And if you want, I have a little
soapbox about Queen Victoria's undergarments and some of the press
coverage they got. Well, I definitely want to hear this.
I absolutely think that this is relevant to today's conversation.
I do want to throw out there that this is
ladies and gentlemen Queen week on stuff. Mom never told
you we're talking about Queen Victoria and also a female

(01:54):
queen of Egypt, a female pharaoh. So chips Thatt chips that, who.
I don't think war bifurcated garments as her under ruse,
as her under ruse. Yeah, if she even had under ruse,
I doubt she did. Well, Holly, should we kick off
with your soapbox? Should we? Should we start off talking
about underpants underwhere Lady No. It comes up all the

(02:15):
time in the History podcast because I like to talk
about clothes in fashion and I really do like to
talk about foundation garments to a degree that might be
suspect to something. Um. So one of the things that
happened a couple of years ago, there were numerous little
pockets of quote news I'm doing the air quotes about
sort of the discovery of this pair of pantalettes that

(02:37):
had been Queen Victoria's, and they talked about the amazing
girth and how huge they were, and because it had
like a forty four inch waist of this is off
the top of my head. Um. But here's the thing.
That doesn't mean her waist is forty four She went stout.
I mean, I'm not saying she was willowy. But those
undergarments one the whole we fascination that people have with

(03:02):
them not having a closed crotch. That is an issue
of necessity to go to the bathroom. Um. And that
is also why there is so much fabric at the top,
because if it were fitted and they had to go
to the bathroom, it would actually be more difficult to
kind of maneuver things out of the way. But they
had all of this extra fabric that they could kind
of pull up around their hips so that when they

(03:22):
sat there there was much reduced risk of getting any
of their under things dirty. So there was a lot
of drawstring there gathering in an awful lot of fabric
at that point. Yeah, but it's because of that news
article that came out talking about her her underpants. Uh that. Now,
anytime anyone says Queen Victoria, in my head, I have

(03:44):
this weird split screen mental image of Queen Victoria, like
in profile and some of those photographs where she was
very sad and in mourning and her underpants. She's the
only person if you say, like Christen Conger or Holly
and I just picture your face. Is not your underpants
because I've never seen them, I guess, But Queen Victoria, Yeah,

(04:05):
now I do, No, Queen Victoria. I just I picture
her face, like you know those cat like glamour shots
where there's there's several pictures in one picture of a
man holding a cat sort of how I imagine Queen
Victoria and her underpants. All right, But anyway, that's started.
The danger right of being a public figure is history
will kind of piece together a bizarre quilt of images

(04:26):
of what you are, and that like, long after your
reigns and podcasts, there's gonna be talking about your underpants,
I should say, which she would not want to have discuss. No, No,
she she definitely definitely lived a stricter lifestyle where people
did not talk about underpants. True, But she was also
very forthright. Um, you know, when she died, and we'll

(04:49):
maybe get to this later, we could go all over
the map in chronology, her youngest daughter, Beatrice, actually destroyed
a lot of the Queen's journals because she thought she
was just way too blunt and forth and shared way
too much information. It was way too direct, because she
wrote something like words a day, just as habits, just
to keep her you know, writing boys, to keep her

(05:11):
mind stimulated, to be documenting. I mean, she understood that
as a sovereign, you know, she needed to be documenting
her days. But a lot of that is lost to us. Now.
Oh I hate that because Beatrice and some of them, Um,
if I'm not mistaken, don't quote me on this, because
this is off the top of my head. I think
there are some that still exists, but that Beatrice heavily edited,

(05:31):
like she kind of rewrote some stuff to make it
a little more nicely nice and not so abrupt in
certain cases, and so direct and in thought Beatrice. Yeah,
Beatrice is not many historians will bad mouth Beatrice. Everybody's
the hero of their own piece. So I'm sure Beatrice
had her own reasons. Uh, there's you know, surely fascination there.

(05:54):
But it does suck that we lost so much of
that record. Yeah, so, Holly, one thing that I want
to know is why you are personally fascinated with Victoria,
because that was the big reason why we wanted to
talk to you today, because we said, hey, maybe we
should come on and talk about queens, and immediately he
knew who you wanted to talk about, because you love

(06:14):
Queen Victoria. Well, now I know that you guys have
not taken a good look at my desk because I
have always had a picture of her on my desk. No,
I haven't be wearing a picture of her right now.
She's I love her. I have a bizarre attachment to her.
Uh And when I was younger, I think it first
started when I, uh, you know, had sort of that
small little gleaning of history that you get in regular

(06:38):
history classes, and especially when your student, like me, he
was maybe not always pankless attention, but I just love
the fact that there was this woman who was you know,
within these confines of in some ways fairly rigid society.
But she still really had a strong sense of self
and a strong will. And her birthdays like the day
before mine. So when you're like sixteen seven, that seems

(07:00):
super cool. And then, um, I think our listeners on
history now, so I don't think I'm gonna surprise anybody.
Not really a kids person, uh and neither was she,
even though she had nine of her own, Like particularly
babies really kind of ooked her out. So there's like
a kinship for me there. Uh. And you know, initially
she really resisted marriage, which is a phase I certainly

(07:22):
went through in my younger years. And then suddenly she
met Albert and wanted to get married, which is exactly
what happened to me when I met my husband. Uh
So there are just some parallels that made me feel
a kinship, but also just I mean, what a wealth
of history. She's like the longest running female ruler I
think in history. She did some amazing things. She really

(07:44):
established so many of the really important parts of Great
Britain's history in terms of like museums in public spaces,
and a lot of that has to do with Albert
of course, but she's just fascinating smart. I think people
think Victorian and they always think buttoned up, but when

(08:04):
you listen to like accounts of her grandchildren and stuff,
she was hilarious and full of laughter, and she loved
to paint and she was very into the arts. And
so there's a complexity there that I really love. I
love thinking of her as somebody's crazy grandmother, because you
don't you don't think of Queen Victoria as somebody's You
barely think of her somebody's mother, but you definitely don't

(08:27):
think of her somebody's grandmother. And it's just it's funny,
how if somebody is your own parent or I mean
she was also sort of a tyrannical mother in law,
uh in one case in particular that I can think of.
But it's harder, I think, to get along with a
difficult parent than it is somebody that you can just
kind of dismiss and and love as a crazy grandparent.

(08:47):
Oh yeah, even if you know she is the queen.
But also I think, you know, she has this image
of being a very cold mother, and she certainly cared
for her children. Her own relationship with her mother was
so complex, um and particularly after her mother died. You know,
Albert really tried a lot to kind of mend that

(09:08):
fence between them and like figure out a way that
she and her mother could have a relationship going forward,
particularly once they had their first child. It became really
really important to him, and you know, Victoria was open
to that and they did sort of forge a relationship,
but it really wasn't until after her mother died and
then she was reading like her mother's diaries and letters
that she realized that her mother was in fact devoted

(09:30):
to her and loved her, had been maybe misguided in
how she had raised her, and that really made her
hate Conroy more than ever. Oh yeah, we haven't even
talked about Conway. Okay, okay, So let's back up a
little bit and let's talk about who she is, where
she came from, how we even got her to be
queen um. So a few details. She was born eighteen

(09:52):
and nineteen at Kensington Palace, and she was named Princess
Alexandrina Victoria and Alexandrina's kind of a different name for
someone born in London. Well, her godfather was actually Ember
Alexander the First of Russia. Uh, which is where that
came from it's the female derivative. So and her mother,

(10:13):
of course was Victoire, So she was named Victoria after
her mother. They had actually considered some other names, and
her uncle, George the Fourth was like, he put the
X name on some names. I'm trying to remember them.
I want to say there was maybe a Sa Carolina
in the mix being considered, and I don't remember what else,
but but yeah, they just didn't want they didn't want

(10:34):
this person from a weird lineage to have special royal name.
I'm not percent clear on what the decision was there.
I haven't done deep enough historical dive on that one,
but I know he was basically like, I'm gonna have
to approve this. It has to go through me, and
you're not going to be named any of these other
fancy names. Well, you mentioned her mother. That was the

(10:55):
widow to Victoire, Duchess of amar Bak a more Bok.
I'm not sure the pronunciation, but I love that name.
And she was married to Victoria's father, Edward, Duke of Kent,
who actually died shortly after she was born. Yeah, she
didn't really know her father all that. Well, Um, there's
actually a whole fun side story here about whether or

(11:17):
not he was really her father. It's one of those
like uh, juicy history things. It can also be completely dismissed.
But here's the scoop. So A Ann Wilson, who was
a journalist and biographer that you've referenced, he put forth
this theory uh while back, that really Sir John Conroy

(11:40):
was more likely the father of Victoria because her father
had been really pretty elderly when she was born, the
kind of suggestion being that maybe not so virile at
that point and possibly not able to father a child,
Whereas Conroy was the same age as her mother. They
a very close relationship. It was rumored all over the

(12:03):
place that they had a sexual relationship. Whether or not
that's true, we do not know for certain. Uh. There's
other supporting evidence. So in addition to the Duke of
Kent having been elderly and possibly not capable, hemophilia suddenly
appeared in the bloodline where it had not been before.
So Victoria's children and their various issue have hemophilia in

(12:26):
the bloodline. However, that's one of those things that her
father would have had to have had it to pass
it down. Uh, And Conrade did not, so we don't
know if it was maybe something that had been in
the bloodline and just hadn't presented. The other evidence that
Wilson suggests is that porphyria had been in the bloodline,

(12:48):
which is what King George the Third was supposed to
have had, and then it vanishes from the bloodline after
this point. However, there is some more modern evidence that
really the porphyria diagnosis is not correct, uh, and that
it's something else that was causing George's madness. Uh. So
all of that can be contradicted, but it is an

(13:10):
interesting side note. There's also uh, some historical rumoring that
Albert was not entirely legitimate, and that really the thing
that people who really kind of pushed this theory point
out that, you know, if they were both mixing in
bloodline that was not there before, they probably strengthened all
the houses of Europe. And for one, naing Victorian Albert

(13:32):
had nine children and they all lived to adulthood, which
at the time was not super common. So for of
them to have had such a healthy family, if they
had continued in their sort of you know, royal blood
bloodlines without any mix in, would have been a lot
more unlikely, but it seemed to work just fine. So
that's just a food for thought. I love it, and

(13:55):
I love how your eyes just get bigger and bigger
with everything I say. And regardless though of whether Conroy
was or wasn't her biological dad, he definitely played a
significant role with Victoire her mom in Victoria's upbring and
this whole Kensington system thing, Yeah, what's up of that?

(14:16):
It makes my stomach hurt. The Kensington system was pitched
to Victoria as this whole set of rules that was
going to keep her safe, uh, and that it was
for her her best interests, but really it was kind
of limiting her in terms of social development and just
in terms of like her being able to be self sufficient.

(14:39):
It was almost like they wanted to infantalize her forever.
So that uh, the theory being that Conroy and Victoria's
mother kind of wanted to have power over her always,
like they recognize this as their into power because Conroy
was her personal secretary, okay, uh, And basically she couldn't
do anything for herself. She could never be alone. She

(15:01):
wasn't allowed to walk up or downstairs without holding someone's hand,
and this is not something that only happened when she
was like five, we're talking when she was seventeen. She
would have to wait for like her governess or her
mother or somebody to come and take her hands so
she could go up and down the stairs. And it
made her crazy. Um, you know, she was constantly champing
at the bits because she felt so limited. She had

(15:21):
to sleep in her room with her mother every night.
She just had no sense of independence, and it was
something that really, as she got older, just really grated
on her. And the older she got and the more
sort of self aware she got and started questioning these things,
it just made her resent her mother so much. And
of course Conroy, but that's really where like the huge

(15:43):
rift in their relationship kind of forms. Is this. I mean,
with any kid, whether you're royal or not. You know,
it's a normal part of childhood development that you get
some independence and you start making decisions for yourself and
you start testing the waters of the world. And she
had no opportunity to do that, but all of the
impulse to do so, so she just felt constantly frustrated.

(16:03):
Well so the reason behind this effort to kind of
keep her childlike and infantilize her and keep her powerless.
That had to do a lot with Was it Victoria
thinking that she could be the queen regent wield power?
That was one of the things There is some there
are some question marks about how much of this was

(16:25):
actually her mother's idea versus how much of it was
Conroy kind of planting the idea. Conroy really certainly for me,
I'll say, um, you know you're supposed to stay a
little more objective, but I have difficulty doing that in
Victoria's case. He kind of really does emerge though, is
the villain of the piece. I mean, the evidence that
continues to stack up against him when you kind of

(16:47):
analyze all of the various moves that were made around
Victoria's life and kind of the strong hand he wanted
to take in her upbringing and how he did. I mean,
her mother apparently had these impulses to be much more
warm with her and carrying with her and give her
what she wanted, but Conroy was insistent that that would
be damaging to the plan. And whether he pitched that

(17:09):
as no, no, we're doing what's best for your daughter,
or hey, you and me, we're gonna get some power
out of this jam is a little bit cloudy. Um,
but he does seem to have been the one manipulating everything.
Makes me think he's a weasel. Well, then on June seven,
she becomes queen at just eighteen years old, and it

(17:31):
seems like any pressure that might have been relieved from
her maybe stepping away from sitting into her own perhaps
in that regard, was just replaced with the pressure to
get a husband already. It was like, let's protect you
and keep you as a baby, and don't walk downstairs
by yourself, switching immediately to get a husband get married. Well, yeah,
and there was also the whole element of you know,

(17:53):
her uncle King William kind of recognized that things were
really dicey with Conroy and Victori, and like he did
not like what was going on. He really wanted to
have a close relationship with his niece. She was you
know the air uh, and they really kept them apart,
they kept her from him, And on what was his

(18:15):
last birthday party at a banquet, he made this really impassioned, angry,
no holds barred speech basically talking about what a horrible
person her mother was. She was seventeen at the time.
She was I think nine months from her eighteenth birthday.
He was, you know, getting on in years, and he
basically was like, I just got to hang on till

(18:35):
this kid he hits eighteen, because I am not letting
you sit as regent. Like he was really adamant that,
like he was gonna just live until Victoria's birthday, and
in fact, he died like three weeks after she turned eighteen.
So it did kind of seem like he was just
clinging to life until he knew that the the throne
was the succession he wanted and not Conroy and Victori's. Yeah,

(18:59):
and it's not like you know, Victoria had any grief
stricken moments of reconciliation with her mother after William's passing,
because she immediately jettison's Victoire and John over to the
other side of Buckingham Palace and was like, get away
from me, and also, could I have one hour by
myself a day in my own bedroom. Please, Hello, I'm
a queen now. But because she was not married, this

(19:21):
is part of the pressure to get married, and it
was some of what she wanted, um and also some
of what you know, the public expected. But in some
ways she wanted freedom, but sort of the catch twenty
two is that she couldn't live even though she was

(19:43):
queen apart from her mother and so um Melbourne, who
was the Prime minister at the time, was like, well,
then you have to get married. Like if you want,
if you really want to like boot her, you're gonna
have to get married. Uh. And in fact, she um
she would turn down any request by her mother to

(20:04):
see her. Uh. But again, if she wanted a permanent
exit from the the household, she was going to have
to get married. Yeah. And she met a couple of
of eligible dudes, right and and wasn't so taken until
she she met Albert. Isn't that right? Until she re
met her cousin. Everybody really wanted her and Albert as
a couple. That was kind of the arranged marriage that

(20:27):
the family was putting together. Uh. And it just turned
out that they got along fabulously and really adored each other.
There was also in that whole get married quick thing
an element she technically ruled over Hanover, but she couldn't
when she took the throne of England and Great Britain
and their many properties. Hanover still only recognized male sovereignty,

(20:51):
so she had to marry and bear a child before
she could take that portion of her title fully. So
that was another reason that people were like, if you
actually want all these things ings, you're gonna have to
make the babies with a husband, which she was just like, really,
but she So they re met. They were first cousins,

(21:11):
not like this is not a distant cousins situation. They
were first cousins. They re meet in eighteen thirty nine.
She has to propose to him, because you can't choose
the queen. You can't go around proposing to the queen.
He was technically beneath her station, right, so he just couldn't,
Like a Disney movie thought, I mean, I mean until

(21:34):
until she like hates being a mother or whatever. But
they get married in eighteen forty and I loved Wilson's
characterization of their relationship. She says, this pair of extremely
strong characters was in for an extraordinary journey together when
they married. Both wanted power, neither wanted to surrender their independence.
More than in most marriages. There was a thunderous clash

(21:54):
of wills. There was, also, however, a deep bond from
the very first Yeah, I'm always a little careful with
Wilson I am. Uh. But one of the things that
I think is important to think about in looking at
their particular relationship, and I don't even like to characterize

(22:18):
it as like Albert had this big drive for power.
I don't think that was it. He just wanted to
sort of have I'm reluctant to call it power, but
he wanted the freedom to be able to actually do
things that would enact positive change. Like he was a
pretty he was keen on helping people. Uh, you know,
he took an interest in the working class. He was

(22:39):
really concerned about the living conditions of the poor in
a way that you know many royals were certainly not, uh,
And so he wanted that leverage. But also you have
to consider that they were very much in love and
we're husband and wife, but she was also the queen
and so apparently there were arguments over like are you

(23:01):
talking to me as a queen? Are you talking to
me as my wife? Like you we have to have
like an actual partnership, um, which you know, the growing
pains of any marriage at eighteen, I mean looks like
you know, with my fiance Andy's it's like, are you
talking to me as a podcaster or me as Kristen. Uh,

(23:25):
and the answer is always the podcast always. He just
loves being that close to power. Um. But what I
think is really lovely is uh her diary entry describing
their first night as husband and wife. I mean, she
really is just head over heels in love with him.
She's not gonna especially graphic, but she just talks about

(23:47):
like how incredible and blissful it is to her to
be embraced by someone who loves her and to be
told wonderful things by this caring man that she thinks
is so beautiful. So, you know, I mean, they're really
there is a lot of passion in that relationship, which
I think because of the additional stresses put upon it
by where they are in life, you know, both being

(24:08):
youthful and being the leaders of you know, a huge
number of people. Those are some stressors most of us
never have to encounter. So it does make sense to
me that there would be some arguments, especially since they
were really in many ways, you know, intellectually equals. So
it's a little tricky, picky waters to navigate well. And

(24:29):
it seems like though once she starts getting pregnant with
her first of nine children, she's essentially pregnant for the
next what like sixteen years or something. That allows Albert
to I mean, he kind of has to step in
and take over a little bit of her public life
when she isn't she isn't even allowed to be seen

(24:50):
in public when she's so far along. Yeah, and you
know she her letters to her oldest daughter Vicky are
a scream. I mean, there's such a read um. And
since we don't have a lot of her journals, in
some ways, that's really what we have of her thoughts

(25:11):
on marriage and children, and it is very blunt. You
can only imagine what was in the private journals. But
she really is like, don't get pregnant right away, don't
do it, like I wish I had had just a
year with your father alone before we started having children.
And she talks about she did not enjoy the early
motherhood stuff. She doesn't particularly care for infants. She finds

(25:31):
breastfeeding absolutely horrifying. She there's sort of a famous um
it's a little bit of a misquote where people like
to say that she called her daughters that were breastfeeding cows,
But she really kind of likened the whole thing to
like being the property of men and being livestock. It
wasn't like you're a cow. It was like, we're all

(25:51):
just turned into cows. It's not even fair. We have
no choice in the matter. Um. As much as she
was very love with Albert and they really did seem
to have just a really deep attachment and for the
most part, despite some conflicts, a pretty happy marriage, she
is not a big proponent of marriage in those letters
where she's like, you know, people don't have to get married.

(26:12):
I think women get married. They don't need to. There
was one instance where I am like, a woman of
fairly high social standing who had been I think in
her mid thirties, had passed away and she had been unmarried,
and for some people it is a big scandal, Like
who she's like, I don't know that her life wasn't
perfectly happy. I don't. I don't think she doesn't need
to do the mommy and wife thing. That's not for everybody.

(26:33):
It's not always fun. She really pitches this sort of
portrait of like, unfortunately women are trapped, like we have
to fulfill this role. We have to keep humans going
by making babies. Men don't always understand the best she
can hope for as a husband that kind of gets
it and you know, treats you with some respect, but like,

(26:54):
we just gotta kind of buckle down to deal with it.
She's she's not like it's beauty, well, wonderful, we get
the great honor of furthering the nation. She's kind of like, well,
I gotta do what you gotta do. That's so interesting.
I've never heard that about Victoria. Well, I wonder too,
And this might be possible, impossible to even speculate, but

(27:15):
what her reign would have been like if she could
have had the choice to have remained single and child free,
if that would have had any influence on I don't
know what she did. I mean, she ended up. I
mean she was an ambitious ruler nonetheless, but yeah, I
mean the first thought that comes to my head, which
is not a serious one, is that somebody would have

(27:36):
found her mother like shield with a letter opener before
long because she couldn't get her out of the house.
That's how that would have played, and she would have
become a murderer. Like she could boot Conroy right away
when she got married. She's like, you're out. You are
not allowed near me. This is the end of you,
but by convention she had to maintain living in the

(27:57):
same house with her mother Sonny dear. Yeah, yeah, and
I mean the sort of lovely I don't know that
you would call it an irony, is that even though
she wasn't into particularly having babies, Um, it really was
the birth of her children, or the births of her
children that kind of helped fix a little bit of

(28:18):
her relationship with her mom. That was really when her
eldest daughter was born. Was really when Albert was like,
now would be a great time to try to like
maybe let your mom back into the family and let
her know her grandchild and not just put up a
stone wall on this one. Like wouldn't that be cool.
Let's all try to make a family here. That's well,

(28:39):
that's nice, especially after Victoria was raised in such a
sort of isolated Yeah. Yeah, why her kids had no isolation. Yeah,
the million of each other. Uh yeah. Oh, I want
to jump back to the Kensington thing. One of the
other things she really hated about this whole thing, and
I apologize that, it's what my mind earlier is that

(29:01):
they also would kind of truck her around England like
her mother and Conroy would take her on these tours
of England so crowds could come and see her, and
she just hated it. She didn't like it. I mean again,
they have given her like none of the real groundwork
to like handle people and be around people with comfort,
and yet they're like, here she is future ruer La

(29:23):
la la. She hated it. William hated it because he
felt like it was setting up this weird situation where
they were somehow rivals for the throne. Uh. It just
was awkward and gross. There's a lot of awkward and
gross things that went on in her childhood, just such
a lonely kid. It breaks my heart. Victoria. Yeah, I

(29:43):
mean it's like when I think about, like how she
sometimes struggled with like dealing with people and people not
just doing what she wanted or being challenged just like
well because she never got social skilled development time, like
she was always having to like she was doing the
things when she was already queen that most of a
figure out in like elementary school when we're fighting over Plato,
Like she was having to develop that social and emotional

(30:07):
language as a ruler, and how it would affect her
rule and how she was perceived by the public at
an age when she should have not had to worry
about those things, and where were the people to walk
her up the stairs right? Well, in her her first
diary entry after she takes the throne, I think the

(30:30):
word alone appears like five times, but in like a
really blissful way, like I'm getting to sit alone. This
is the first time I've ever truly been alone. She's
just so happy to have time to herself. It seems
like given those circumstances growing up too, she lucked out
so much with Albert being the gym that at least

(30:52):
it seems like he was. It seems like Albert usually
gets pretty glowing reviews when it comes to being a
decent husband. And yeah, I mean I think he was
a good match for her, and that he kind of
had a gentler spirit, Like he was no less smart.
I mean, he was incredibly smart um, and he certainly

(31:14):
understood sort of the responsibility of their position. He was headstrong,
and that when he thought an idea was correct and
like was going to do some good, he would really
hang onto it. But he just had an ability to
kind of smooth things out and kind of counter her
episodes of you know a little bit more rageful behavior

(31:37):
at times and kind of just be like, okay, well,
well we're going to work through this. It's gonna be okay.
That does lead me to a question though about in
terms of her little rage behavior and and missteps. Now,
you mentioned we were talking about getting together for this
episode that there was one particular misstep in particular that
you wanted to talk about with Lady Hastings. Was that

(31:58):
pre or post marriage to Albert? I? It was pery,
It was pretty uh so, And we should talk a
little bit more too about how Albert was not super
loved when he first came on the scene like her.
Her country did not embrace him as holy as she
did initially. But Lady Flora Hastings was had been Victoris

(32:20):
Lady in waiting, so already mark against her, and she
was a young woman. She started to develop the swelling
of the abdomen and this caused a lot of tongues
wagging that she had been impregnated out of wedlock by
Sir John Conroy. Always the villain. I mean, I feel
like he's like a Disney villain. He just pops up

(32:40):
in every opportunity of badness. Um and Victoria really kind
of uh found these rumors juicy and delightful and believed them,
and so she kind of helped spread them. She sort
of wanted uh, Lady Flora to undergo a physical examination

(33:01):
that was resisted for a while, but eventually Flora did
acquiesce and it turned out that the doctor found that
she was a virgin. So already Victoria looked a little
bit like a jerk. And then when Lady Flora Hastings
died several months later, it turned out that she had
a huge liver tumor. So then Victoria looked like a huge,
mean jerk and like basically a schoolyard bully that had

(33:24):
just you know, created misery for this poor girl. Um
that really really did not help her standing amongst her
people because she did look like a jerk. I mean,
she spread rumors and was mean to this poor woman
who was dying of a tumor. So how did you
recover from it? Slowly but surely? Um. And Albert was

(33:46):
a big part of that. You know, he even though
he wasn't initially super embraced, he was a foreigner, he
was you know, there's just some I don't know about
this because he really worked so diligently to try to
improve conditions for all of the classes of England, UM
in Great Britain. You know, he started a lot of

(34:08):
different sort of good works that kind of just slowly
built up. There were also several assassination attempts, which you
know kind of there is a natural public reaction even now,
like if a leader that is not particularly popular has
an attempt on their life, people tend to rally to
them and be like, no, no, you cannot do that
to our leader, even if they don't particularly like them.
One case, UM, someone had shot at her while she

(34:30):
was out in the carriage and missed, and they couldn't
identify who it had been in the crowd. So she
was like, I'm going back out the next day, let's
see if he'll do it again. And so that kind
of made people go, man, she's cool. This woman is brazen.
I like her, so I mean little there are multiple
little steps like that that kind of helped win the
favor of of her people back over. Uh. And then

(34:54):
when Albert put together the the Great Exposition in eighteen
fifty one, that was another huge thing where you know,
they basically um first of all, they built Paxton's Great
Crystal Palace for it. We actually did a whole episode
on that and Stuff He Missed in History Class, which
is just architecturally phenomenal, and it kind of brought this
great level of culture. It was open to everyone. It

(35:15):
was really cool, and then they used the proceeds from
it to start the Victorian Albert Museum. Uh. And Albert's
whole thing was like, everyone should have access to culture.
Everyone should hear beautiful music, everyone should see art, everyone
should be exposed to all of these things. I don't
care if you're working class, I don't. We just we
all is a country need to have access to beautiful
arts and improved lives. And so of course it's gonna

(35:39):
that's a pretty good jam to pitch. But unfortunately Albert
isn't going to be around for all of Victoria's reign,
or even close to all of her reign. And we're
going to talk about Albert's passing and how that impacts
the rest of Queen Victoria's role when we come right
back with Holly Fry from Stuff You Missed in History Class.
After a quick break and now to the show. Okay,

(36:04):
so before the break, we were talking with Holly all
about Victoria's early years growing up, being isolated from other children,
having to sort of grow up without knowing how to
interact well with other people. But then she meets, well remates,
her cousin, Albert. They fall in love. They've got this
great almost dual monarchy productive partnership going on. But then

(36:27):
tragedy strikes in eighteen sixty one when Albert dies and
some say it was stomach cancer, some say typhoid, some
say it was even Crohn's disease. But Holly, I'm interested
in hearing a little bit about leading up to what
was going on before Albert passed. So Victoria always blamed
their son, Bertie for the whole thing. Uh. He had

(36:48):
been away training. He was going to be, you know,
the next in line to take the throne. Uh. There
were rumors that there had been a woman in his
tent and that he, you know, kind of behaving in
ways that were not becoming to the future leader. And
Albert was very upset. He wrote this long, angry letter
to his son about what are you doing? This is

(37:10):
absolutely foolish? Uh, you know, do you have no respect
for your position in life? And then he ran off
to check on him, even though he was very ill already, uh,
and came back and he basically did not last much
longer after that. So in Victoria's head, there was a
clear cause and effect, and it was Birdie. However, Uh,
part of the problem is that Albert had been sick

(37:32):
for a long time before that, and his doctors had
not been entirely clear with Victoria about how grave the
situation was and truly how sick he had been. Um,
I don't want to blame my Vickie because I love her,
but not long before this, her mother had died, and
it really you know, that's as I said, She became
very upset the more she kind of read her mother's

(37:54):
letters after her mother's death, and she went into a
pretty dark morning, and Albert, already sick, was like, you
more and your mom, you work through this. I'm going
to take care of all of your duties. I'll do
your job as long as you need you you do,
you grieve, and so you know, it's easy for her
to blame Birdie, but he was stressing himself out already

(38:16):
just kind of at that point running the country without her.
He was also, I mean, he never turned down any
of his duties. He never said like, hey, I'm not
really up to this right now. He would be like,
all right, sure I'll go oversee that thing. Absolutely, I
will take that. Media like he just he kind of
worked himself to death, and we don't we don't really
know what his cause of death was. There have been
a few um stomach cancer has been mentioned. H typhoid

(38:42):
fever was the big popular opinion for a while. Lately,
there have been some theories that it was Crohn's disease.
In fact, it's very heartbreaking. She was with him when
he died. She was holding his hand because she had
heard his ragged breathing there in the blue room of
the the the household, and she went to be with
him and she held him and she spoke with him

(39:03):
in German, and he apparently, according to her account, had
three long, slow breaths, and then he was just gone,
and she kissed his head and that was the end
of it. Um, so heartbreaking, I mean. And then she
wore black for like ever. I love that about her. Um,

(39:27):
She's like the original goth but except not really, because
Gothic period is already the whole separate kind of goth
though really, But it was that it was that very
special Victorian era morning and she was the Queen of
the Morning at the time. And we talked about this
in our episode, our interview with Kate Sweeney about just

(39:47):
the Victorian Arab session with Death. I love it. Yeah, yeah,
I mean who doesn't love a good Victorian morning gown? Seriously,
I think you're being facetious and I'm being serious. No,
I mean, I'm not being facetious. And we know, we
know the Victorians really they were into that well. And

(40:08):
it was also the heyday of spiritualism, so she also
got into seances to try to contact Albert. I mean,
it seems like Victoria went not I don't want to
say she went off the deep end because spiritualism was
so common at the time, but it seems like she
lost maybe a little bit of touch with reality. Well,

(40:30):
she always seemed to have some pretty interesting kind of
post trauma reactions to things. Um. There have been some
suggestions in recent times that historians have made, based largely
on the writings of Albert, actually that she suffered from

(40:51):
postpartum depression with each of her children, because Albert would
talk about these fits she would go into and she
would just get so upset over the littlest thing, and
you know, normally after the birth of each of their children.
Whether or not that was postpartum depression or she was
just angry she had another baby on her hands, we
don't know, but she did tend to have pretty intense
emotional reactions to things that happened to her um and so,

(41:15):
you know, of course, losing the love of her life
like this person, she said something after he had died
that that was the last person who could ever call
her Victoria was now gone. Like she didn't really have
anybody that was, you know, her equal and her friend anymore.
She was just the queen and she didn't have that
same level of camaraderie. People only knew her as her

(41:38):
royal self at that point. So it kind of makes
sense that she would maybe turn to some seemingly wacky
ways to try to work through her morning. And potentially,
I mean, you know, frankly, I think all of that
is WHOEI but if my husband were to suddenly pass,
I would be like, bring on the witch doctor, just

(42:00):
get me any sort of voodoo practitioner, Like can I
please talk to Brian again? Like I'll do it whatever
it takes. I'll do it, so I can understand how
that would happen. Um, you know, there's well this might
be a ridiculous question considering the era and also her station,
but it sounds like she just didn't have any friends.
I mean that sentiment that there was no one else

(42:22):
who could ever really call her Victoria. Because after that,
all of the focus seems to be turned to, like
in retrospect of us looking at her today, it shifts
away from Albert and then it's just focused on her
relationship with her kids. It doesn't seem like she had
I mean, she had John Brown Um, who kind of
turns into a little bit of a conroy, it seems

(42:42):
like in terms of his control over her life, but
it doesn't seem like there's any I don't know, any
like safe person for Victoria. Well exactly. And I mean
I think again we're kind of painting a psychological picture
that I am probably not qualified in terms of degrees
and study to do. But when you think about a
person who had this weird upbringing, not really all the

(43:03):
social graces figured out, suddenly has a ton of power,
has this marriage, this one person that gets her nobody else,
and then when she's grieving she doesn't have anybody to
comfort her. It's just like at best you get the cold,
they're they're dear. But that really was when Albert started
to get the glowing reputation because again similar to how

(43:24):
you know, once things happened to her like um assassination attempts,
she would gain some sympathy. Like once Albert was gone,
and she was just I mean, she commissioned, like I
think it was a five volume biography of his entire life,
and you know, she really at that point lauded him
as this amazing loss for the country and really for
all of Europe, and so other people were like, yeah,

(43:46):
he was great. Uh and he was, I mean, he
did some incredible things. So that's really where his his
pr gets really really good after his death, Like people
start to realize, you know, what a great man he
was in many way reason and certainly in sympathy with her,
But she didn't have that sort of personal sympathy that
someone would normally have when you're going through grief. I

(44:07):
can't imagine what that would be like like to just
grieve on your own with everyone staring at you. Yeah. Well,
the the whole getting of a better reputation after something
horrible happens. I mean kind of we kind of see
the same thing with Bertie that you know, we've we've
got this sort of absent, invisible queen. They were even
publishing political cartoons showing an empty throne, you know, so

(44:30):
people are wondering, is she's shirking her duties? But then
we have this playboy print that everybody's like, he's got
prostitutes in his tent? What's going on? But then Bertie
ends up getting he actually gets typhoid, definitively right, and
so all of a sudden, the country is like, oh no,
the Prince is sick. We feel so bad for him. Yeah,
we wonder why we're so obsessed with like reality TV,

(44:52):
But it's the same thing. Yeah, we've always we've always
been like this. But yeah, so he basically garners the
nation's sympathy and suddenly they love him, and um, I
mean did did what happens then? Like what happens with
the Victoria and Bertie after that? Like is she still
sort of suspicious of him and not wanting to give
him any power? I would be reticent to claim that

(45:18):
their relationship was ever fully mended. Yeah, but it you
know how as you age, some stuff starts being less important.
I think that was more the case. It's just time
kind of turned down the volume on some of that. Yeah. Well,
I mean I love I love watching or watching, but
like reading about how these relationships did evolve. Considering that

(45:40):
when Bertie was a kid, she Queen Victoria wrote handsome.
I cannot think him with that painfully small and narrow head,
those immense features and total want of chin. Yeah, she
read a lot of cruel things. Poor Leopold. Leopold really
took one for the team. I mean he just oh
she said terrible things about that child, about just what

(46:03):
an ugly thing he was, and yeah, this was the
son with hemophilia. Yeah, she was not super kind to
that poor child. Well she also just the way that
she was raised isolated, so was Leopold. Yeah, yeah, he
really kind of didn't Beatrice, her youngest. I mean, you
I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of the

(46:25):
reason Beatrice was like we're getting rid of all her
stuff was kind of that. You know, by the time
you're the last couple of kids in a big, long
line like that, parents have been through a lot. Maybe
not getting der fierce life of the Pie at that point. Yeah,
but Leopold's I mean, Leopold's story is so sad that
he's he's made to live the life of an invalid,

(46:46):
that he was bullied by the servant who was supposed
to look after him all of you know, uh he
she wasn't going to let him leave home, but he
finally went to study at Oxford well and was too.
Queen Victoria the original helicopter parent with spies being sent
out to watch over not only her children but also

(47:08):
for instance, like Bertie's wife. I mean that happened throughout
history and royal family all the time. So yes, but
it wasn't She's not the original, no, I mean there
was precedent. I mean you can even look at like
Marie Antoinette and her mother and her mother constantly going
you had sex yet? Have you had the sex yet?
Are you gonna make a have you had this? I'm
sending your brother to explain sex like. So, I mean,

(47:30):
there were certainly plenty of and that's just one example.
There are plenty throughout all of the houses of Europe
where you know, because there is that added stress of like, oh,
by the way, the nation is in your hands at
some point in the future or already were you know,
they're they're expectations of children that are not normal certainly
to us, right, and wanting to keep tabs on one

(47:52):
of her daughter in law's minstrual cycles and would plan
balls so that they would not fall within the cycle.
I think that's just being sinse bo. Yeah, that's just polite, right,
I mean, wouldn't you love it if someone did that
for you? Let me make sure you don't have any
important meetings this week, and also we're gonna there's I
would like to throw a party. Can I get your
information on when it is going to work best for you?

(48:12):
Wink wink, Like, come on, when, Caroline, when are you
most likely to yell at strange? We're gonna just not
plan the party for that week. But how was she
though as a ruler, especially during this time because she
steps away completely from the public eye. She's obviously active
as a mother in some sense, but for a long time,

(48:35):
it doesn't seem like she's doing a whole lot. But
I know that that's a very simplistic. Well, for like
five years she did no public appearances, So to some agree,
you're right and a lot of people like to point
out she just wasn't around, and she did kind of
retreat to Belle Moral to spend a great deal of time. However,

(48:55):
she was maintaining all of her correspondences. Um, you know,
she was working daily in that regard. She just wasn't
you know, in London in the thick of it. Just
didn't want to be there. Yeah. And and this is
when we really see the strong Republican movement developing, when
she's sort of invisible in a way, uh from the throne.

(49:17):
But yeah, like you said, she was still keeping up
with things. Um, in eighteen sixty four from behind the scenes,
she did press her ministers not to intervene in the
Prussia Austria Denmark War. And so it's not like she
ever totally disappeared, but it's it's starting after that in
the late eighteen sixties and really in the seventies that
we finally see her emerge. Yeah. It seems like she

(49:40):
makes a pretty impressive comeback. Yeah. Um. You know, another
thing to keep in mind is that throughout her time
on the throne, you know, already the queen did not
have that much direct political power. She could assert her
influence over things. But it wasn't like she could go

(50:01):
and now the country will do this. She would have
to like convince politicians of what you know, she thought
was best. And slowly, over her entire reign, the power
of the throne was being chipped away. You know, there
was like one bill after another that was introduced that
kind of, you know, again, would reduce incrementally like what

(50:21):
the royal family was capable of doing and what their
power was. So a lot of people like to say,
and then she vanished and the Republicans rose in the
in the vacuum, and it's like this is not entirely accurate.
There's a number of moving parts there, and it's really
more of a slow kind of wave and an ebb
rather than just a direct um cause and effect. So

(50:43):
how are you referring to more of a constitutional monarchy developing?
Basically where she's kind of supposed to remain above party politics, Well,
theoretically already was. Um Albert also really pushed her to
like follow really what she thought best and not get
involved in the party messes that had there had been
some missteps early in her reign over that, like it,

(51:07):
at one point she was supposed to when some parties
changed out, get rid of all of her her current
ladies and replace them with those that were in the
same political favor as as the then ruling party. And
she was like nope, and that really caused a lot
of problems or as hour, it was like, you have

(51:27):
to stop doing things based on party lines. You have
to just try to you know, be a good leader
and think about each topic that comes up and each
problem that comes up, like as a human that is
smart and can you know, objectively look at a problem
and sort it out. Um. So she tried to get

(51:48):
more and more away from that, but her power, I mean,
the power of the monarchy was being chipped away regardless.
So it kind of got to be more constitutional monarchy,
but it already us So what inspired her then to
come back more or less in especially as we mentioned

(52:08):
in like the late eighteen sixties and eighteen seventies, Well,
she ruled, as we know, for a very long time.
I think there were and different prime ministers while she
was on the throne, and the one that kind of
coaxed her back into like more publicly serving her role
was Benjamin Disraeli who just sort of had this ability

(52:32):
to kind of influence her in a seemingly positive way
and just convince her like, no, you really you need
to be visible. People need to see you as part
of your job. Come on, likest luring the scared animal
out with some come on you, you should do this.
But of course she wasn't really a scared animal, and

(52:53):
I think that kind of helped her get over that
last hurdle and back into the swing of things. And
she was like, hey, you know what I wanted to
I want to be I want to be an empress.
I do that, and I don't want my daughter Vicky
to be an empress. I want to be an empress.
So let's let's talk about India. This happened. They've got
a aric assault on our hands right here. Yeah, empiricism

(53:16):
is a tricky problem, you know. It's it's hard to
keep loving her in some ways. For me at that point,
I think that's why I tend to love her early
year stories a lot more. And then I'm like la
la la, la, la, la la. Not so much with
the oh no paragraph no. Um, but of course that
did happen. Um. Yeah, it's interesting that she had this

(53:41):
concern over Vicky who then married into the German monarchy,
somehow having more than her since eventually her grandchild, Vicky
uh Kaiser Wilhelm, would be a primary figure in World
War One. It's just all the kind of you look
at the big quilt, the big quilt of European rulers.

(54:03):
It kind of strikes me as funny that she was
so worried about that power on that end when it's like,
you shouldn't worry about what's going to happen in that
branch too much, Like some things are going to happen
and you can't stop it. So it's like the worst
family reunion ever, like all the ants and uncles, you're
just causing problems. But yeah, so there, Yeah, there was
stuff going on in India. There was an uprising and

(54:25):
she was like, enough of this. I'm going to make
you part of my empire. Yeah, people, Yeah, let's do
this thing, she said, And they did. But they did. Well.
Here's a question though, So over the course of her
almost sixty four your reign, I mean, she becomes inextric
inextricably linked with Britain's age of industrial expansion, economic progress, imperialism, obviously,

(54:52):
but I'm also really curious to know how much of
the culture that we think of when we hear Torrian
era is reflective of her, or if it was just
I mean, obviously it didn't all just like come shooting
out of her like one giant rainbow, like her tenth child.

(55:12):
I've dropped a culture egg, you guys, So we didn't
see what happens. Um, there certainly was a great deal
that we can attribute back to her. There's some really
interesting like trend things that are all her that we
a lot of people don't realize, like you guys probably know.
I'm sure you've talked about it. The white wedding dress
thing is all her. Uh. It's very very funny because

(55:35):
prior to that time white would be completely not appropriate
for a wedding. It was associated more with morning. But
like within two weeks of her marriage to Albert, because
not only did she wear white, her attendance all war white.
It was really a very plain gown compared to a
lot and there was initially like a lot of I
don't think you understand how to wedding um, but like

(56:00):
two weeks later fashion books were like everyone knows that
white's the best. It was just suddenly like obviously this
was always the best color for a bride. But the
other thing that a lot of people don't realize Christmas trees.
That's largely Victoria's doing her mother. You know, It's more
of a German tradition to have a small tree at
at Christmas time, and her mother had had some. I

(56:24):
think she would bring you trees into the house, but
at this point to bring a tree in the house
in Great Britain was like what um? But then once
she married Albert, she really wanted, particularly their first Christmas,
her to be very welcoming and to feel like home
for him. So she did the big tree, and then
when they had the kids, they kept the tree thing going.
And now everybody has a Christmas tree. But that was
not de rigor or prior to her. Uh. Such an

(56:47):
interesting sort of cultural legacy that she's left us. But
what about the lifestyle. You know, christ and I talked
about Victorians a lot on the podcast that I'm sure
you and Tracy do two about everything was so buttoned up,
like you mentioned earlier, like where does that come from? Uh?
You know, I think there's just that sense of propriety,
and I think if you want to trace it to
her again, I think there you always hear like, oh,

(57:12):
it was very buttoned up, but then not really like
the Victorians were secret freaks like and I think you
can it's almost a really sort of lovely accidental mirror
of Victoria herself where she did appear so prim and so,
I mean, every image we have of her, particularly later
in life, is that stern, we are not amused face.
But then you hear her grandchildren say she was a

(57:33):
hoot and she just laughed and she had a beautiful
smile and she was hilarious, and uh so there and
I mean even within her marriage, she was very into
Albert sexually. I mean they were very much in love.
She had a portrait commission which is since has come
to light in fairly recent years that was not especially scandalous,
but at the time was downright, you know, where her

(57:53):
shoulders are uncovered and because apparently he loved to watch
her ladies undress her at the end of the day,
because he loved when her shoulders would be revealed. He
thought they were just beautiful. And so she had this
portrait done and it's lovely. She's kind of in three
quarter profile and her shoulders naked, and her hair is
draped over it, and so I mean, I think that
the echo is there culturally of like, no, everything's very

(58:15):
rigid and strict and except not so much all the time,
you know. So it's an interesting there's a dichotomy there
that I think is very much reflective of who Victoria was.
I mean, I think that is interesting to bring up
that whole dichotomy, the buttoned up nous but then in private,
the very the very open, loving but also sort of

(58:37):
kind of moody personality that existed. And I think that
that that trend. We can see that going throughout her
whole life, the fact that she, you know, wasn't the
biggest fan of being pregnant or having kids or raising babies,
but she did love her children and care about every
iota of their being. Yeah, which that's another thing she's
often mentioned earlier criticized for. But it's like she didn't

(59:00):
really have a good model, Like she didn't how do
you piece together how to be a mom when you
never when you had two people telling you what to
do every minute of your life, you know, I mean,
she just grew up a contrarian. I mean, it was
entirely possible that that with Conroys and her mother's plot
kind of in their scheming so to speak, that she

(59:21):
could have very well grown up to be just like this,
this yes woman, you know, doing whatever they wanted. But
instead they bred a contrarian who became the queen for
almost sixty four years. So yeah, that's part of why
I love her. I like her her duality of person.
But she she pretty much stayed once she re emerged

(59:43):
into the public eye, and this in the seventies, she
pretty much stayed there until her death in nineteen o
one after a series of small strokes. But she was
don't worry people. She was buried next to Albert. Yes,
and you know what she had inscribed on the mausoleum
for both of them. It's so sweet, um, farewell, best beloved.
Here at last, I shall rest with the with the

(01:00:04):
in Christ, I shall rise again. It's very sweet. I
still love Yeah. I mean, they had a good one.
That was a good lucky match. So holly too. Sum
it all up, even though it's kind of impossible when
it comes to Queen Victoria, what is your what do

(01:00:26):
you think is her number one contribution to history? If
you can only pick one, the cultural institutions she and
Albert set up. I mean those you know, Victorian Albert
Museum is still just amazing. It has more than two
thousand years worth of art and relics, and you know

(01:00:46):
there's constant research going on because of the seeds that
they planted in the mid eighteen hundreds that we are
still bearing fruit, um, and you know that people are
still learning from So for me that would be what
it is. But also I really like a good buffle gown.
I'm just gonna say it. Well, Holly, thank you so
much for coming on this show to talk about Queen Victoria.

(01:01:07):
Thank you for having me. It's been so fun. And
for listeners of ours who don't already listen to stuff
you missed in history class, where can they go to
find out more about you and the podcast they're gonna missed?
In history dot com, we have all of our episodes
and our show notes go up there. All of the archives,
so from all of the host previous Dracy and I've
been about to and some change years um, but there

(01:01:30):
were certainly many before that. So you'll discover all manner
of crazy things, everything you ever wanted to know about
Egyptian embalming, and various medical diseases. All diseases are medical, Holly,
various diseases and how they were treated. There's a lot
of astronomy and science history, and lots of history of

(01:01:51):
other queens and empresses as well. Yes, we we love
all the royalty, even the crazy ones, especially the crazy ones.
So head on over to missed in History dot com.
And hey, if you have thoughts to share with us
about Queen Victoria or your favorite queen, you can tweet
us at mom Stuff Podcast, email us at Mom's Stuff

(01:02:12):
at how stuffworks dot com, or messages on Facebook. And
we've got a couple of messages to share with you
right now. Well, I have a letter here from Sarah.
She says, I just wanted to say thank you for
all the work you ladies doing the podcast. I really
enjoyed the thoughtful and lovely discussions you guys have. You've
brought up a lot of topics that I've never really

(01:02:33):
given much thought to, sludge shaming, victim blaming, and rape
culture especially. I've become much more aware of my own
habits and language and how they contribute to the culture
of negativity in general. I catch myself thinking about how
someone has gained weight, or wearing clothing I wouldn't deem
appropriate or maybe just looks a certain way. I'm making
a sincere effort to change how I look at people,

(01:02:54):
and at the very least not to vocalize negativity and
maybe thinking about something as trivial as someone's dress us.
When I catch those thoughts coming on, I make an
effort to turn it into something positive. A girl wearing
an outfit that I and others would probably think is
too tight for her figure turns into I'm glad she
has that confidence. You go, girl. It takes a lot
of practice, but I feel like I'm contributing in some

(01:03:15):
small way. I don't have children yet, but I'm hoping
that will change this year, and I've put a lot
of thought into how my children will be raised, about
the kind of society they'll be raised in, and about
how I'll keep them safe and confident and able to
rise above the unreasonable expectations of society. So thanks again
for the enlightening and fun podcast, and keep up the
good work. And thank you Sarah for writing in Well

(01:03:37):
I've gotta let her here from Maddie, and she writes
long time listener, first time writer. I love the podcast
so much and I'm really excited to have a reason
to write in, especially about something like this. I live
in Ontario, a province in Canada. She knows, and our
current premiere, the US equivalent would be a governor, is

(01:03:59):
a woman named Kathleen Win. She's pretty cool for a
few reasons. She's the first female premiere of Ontario and
the first openly gay premiere in Canada. She's also made
it very clear she's a proud feminist. She's shown this
in a number of her policies, the latest of which
is an extensive plan to combat sexual assault and rape culture,
which has the title It's Never Okay. The plan includes

(01:04:22):
things like improved sex said to teach kids about healthy
relationships from a young age, more pressure on universities and
workplaces to improve and continuously update harassment policies, increased support
for existing treatment centers and training for police, mental health
workers and Crown prosecutors. There's even funding for artists to

(01:04:42):
create work about gender inequality and rape culture. The government
has also produced an ad which highlights the importance of
speaking up and stepping in when you see assault happening.
I've included a link to an article that contains the
ad so you can watch it and read more if
you want to, maybe even post the video on the
face book or Tumblr page. Again, love the podcast, the

(01:05:03):
YouTube channel, and especially YouTube. I'm so excited to be
able to share this kind of awesomeness with you, So
thanks Mattie, and we will indeed share that video on
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(01:05:24):
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