October 5, 2011 • 20 mins
More people are delaying or avoiding marriage, and also raising children outside of wedlock. Are single people penalized? Join Cristen and Caroline as they look at the statistics and explain why single women over 25 are the most stigmatized.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom Never told you?
From how stup works dot com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen. Kristen did some
(00:21):
reading this weekend, and did you know that one hundred
million Americans, that's over half the population are unmarried according
to the Census Bureau. This means that half of the
over eighteen population is being overlooked by some very important
policies talking about these single people, single adults, the single adults. Yeah,
(00:44):
and we ran across an article last week over at
Tara Parker Pope's wellness blog at the New York Times,
and she was reporting on how some social scientists and
researchers think that because of this huge population and growing
popular nation of American adult singles, that a lot of
them are being overlooked in terms of benefits, pay taxes
(01:08):
and things like that, and too much emphasis is being
put on the holy altar of marriage, right and you know, uh,
we're fighting for a marriage equality. Yeah, but whether you're
gay or straight, if you're single, you're going to be
left behind any marriage reform. You know, that's great, but
it's still leaving the single people out of that. And
(01:30):
Naomi Girstill, a sociologist at University of Massachusetts Amherst Um, says,
this push for marriage essentially assumes that if you don't
get married, there's something wrong with you. Um, but a
huge proportion of the population is unmarried, and the single
population is only going to grow. And um, there's this
September editorial. So a recent editorial and the Guardian um
(01:54):
sort of brings up the subject of should partners have
similar of rights to um, too married to to spouses? Yeah,
I started bringing up the the idea of reviving a
common common law kind of marriage. Right. Yeah, it said
something like it's been there's been no common law marriage
since the eighteenth century, but most of the population still
(02:17):
thinks that it exists. And uh, and it's good that
you bring up the issue of partners because when we
say single a lot of times you'll probably assume that
someone who's completely unattached, like not any kind of long
term or dating relationship at all. But remember, in this context,
single applies to just someone who is not married, right
(02:41):
And Um, So the Guardian was talking about the Office
for National Statistics which found that the key to a
strong marriage is actually to live together first. It's cohabitation,
UM and O and S suggests that cohabitation is seen
as promoting rather than competing with marriage, and uses UM
this argument to suggest that maybe we should have more
(03:03):
rights as as domestic partners or just you know, folks
living together. Yeah. And we've talked about premarital cohabitation as
it is formerly called on the podcast before and talking
about whether or not um it predicts divorced because there
was a study that came out a while ago saying
that people who lived together before they get married are
(03:24):
then more likely to get divorced. Are all of these
statistics that we saw about how people who lived together
who were unmarried, you know, they drink more, and they
weigh more, and they have lower incomes and you know,
basically at all coming emphasizing this point over and over
again that that marriage, you know, especially the heterosexual marriage
ideal is uh is where it's at in terms of
(03:47):
family stability. UM. But a lot of times to people
who are promoting those kind of ideas are uh, you
know a little more conservative little agenda based. Yeah, people's
ideas of maror edge are often based on things that
they grew up with, the norms that they were surrounded by,
and these ideals and norms can actually have a big
(04:10):
effect on the workplace. And according to a Business Week
article from a couple of years ago, UM, unmarried people
wind up making an average less than their married colleagues
for the same work just because of this marriage centric
structure that we have going on. Right, they're just more
built in uh benefits for people who are married and
(04:33):
have children UM. And there have been a lot of
companies since this Business Week article came out that have
tried to be more inclusive, specifically for like same sex
partners UM kind of taking away the the formal you know,
box of of marriage to the to provide rights for
UM our benefits for other people. But at the same time,
(04:55):
you know, the penalties still exists. And what is that
the Family UM Medical Leave Act like a federal law.
Bella Depolo is a psychologist and she is one of
the number one voices about singleism. She even coined the
term singleism UH to as a catch all for the
(05:16):
you know, kind of anti single discrimination against single folks. Yes, discrimination, Yeah,
And she cites the Family and Medical Leave Act as
an example of it, because legally, since she's single and
doesn't have any children, no one can take time off
under the law to care for her if she becomes
really sick, and it's not required that she'd be given
(05:37):
time off to care for siblings, nephews, close friends. I mean,
in my case, I have um a number of I've
lost count and have a number of nieces and nephews
and UM, and it would be great to have, you know,
similar freedom to be able to, you know, pick them
up from soccer practice. If my sister was in a
bind or right, it's it would be nice to know
(05:58):
that you wouldn't lose your job because you had to
take care of one of those nieces or nephews, you know,
if they were sick or or a sibling. It would
be nice to know you had a job to come
back to, or even a good friend or a podcast.
I'm in good health, though, I assure you. And the
thing is, single people could use some more assistance because
(06:19):
statistically we're the ones putting in UM, you know, the
volunteer hours UM kind of keeping things running into your society,
right and our communities and parents. Before you turn off
the podcast to say, you don't understand. I don't have
you know, I don't have time to do this. I'm
caring for children. It's not parenthood that's the issue. According
(06:42):
to Naomi Girsl that's sociologists from Amherst that Caroline mentioned earlier.
She told The New York Times, it's not having children
that isolates people, it's actually the marriage break it down. Yeah,
once people get married, they tend to turn their energies inward.
They've played the game, they they got their partner and
I'm not at that sounds really cynical and I'm not
(07:03):
really that cynical, but um, yeah, No. Studies have shown
that once people get married, they turn their focus away
from friendships, extended family and the community and turn it
inward on their own family that they're building. Yeah, I'm
just for an example. This is from the Council and
contemporary Families. UM, looking at who is taking care of
(07:23):
aging parents with the booming or the the aging boomer
population of unmarried women take care of parents compared to
six percent of married women. For men, it's only sixty
seven percent of unmarried men compared to just thirty eight
percent of married guys and then also, unmarried people are
(07:45):
more connected with family, community and have higher volunteerism rates UM.
One in five take part in volunteer works such as teaching, coaching,
raising money for charities, and things like that. Right, yeah,
I have all sorts of time to go volunteer with
projects around Atlanta, being that I'm a single person who
eats lots of chocolates. I you know what I do too,
(08:07):
and I'm gonna be honest with you right now, I don't.
I don't volunteer enough. Well, I volunteer time at my
my keyboard. Good, you keep that economy role at my laptop.
But I hope you get out some Kristen, that you're
not just sitting your keyboard, because if you didn't get
out and have friends, you would be the odd ball.
Because the statistics says that even more than I are
(08:28):
even more UM at all educational levels, unmarried individuals not
only have more friends than they're married counterparts, but they
give these friends more care, both practical and emotional. So
I'm here for you, thank you, And for married people,
I'm here for you too, although I won't understand your problems.
But here's the thing though, the point of the podcast
(08:49):
was to talk about this, the answer the question of
whether or not it's single people are stigmatized. And here's
the thing. Not to make us sound like, uh, you
know some major stereotypes right now, Caroline, but you and
I fit into the demographic where we're about to get
(09:10):
really really stigmatized unless we put a ring on it soon.
Yeah ring myself. Yeah. Being married by age and I'm
about to hit is consistent with the normative pattern and
snaff ideology snaff standing for the standard North American family,
(09:33):
the ideal of like, you get married, you have two
point five kids, you get a white pick events. So
is the age for women where that's like within the
normal range, and so I have gone past that. But
although the average um statistically, I think according to census data,
the average age for women getting married is like twenty
six point seven years old. So you're, I mean, like,
(09:55):
you're closer, You're closer than you think. You're just not
right at that at that snaff saying, because so I
feel so much better. Um, I, on the other hand,
I am about I'm I'm rapidly approaching twenty seven and
so I got I'm onna like husband countdown. I don't
have anyone else that two months that I can beat
(10:16):
the odds. Um. Yeah, we're talking about single stigma and
the fact that we are rapidly approaching the end of
our I don't know whatever acceptable stereotypical marriage period. UM
two thousand nine study by researchers at the University of
Missouri and Texas Tech called and I love this. I'm
(10:36):
not a loser. I'm not married. Let's all just look
at me. UM talked with ten women who were in
their thirties. Right in their thirties, UM talked to them
about what it was like being single, and a lot
of these women definitely said they felt stigmatized, despite the
fact that they were successful in their careers, had good
lives otherwise. Part of this is that they were made
(10:59):
to be away air of the changing realities as they
got older. There were certain triggers that they faced, like
going to weddings, going to showers, you know, but a
lot of it. A big trigger is people around them
like coworkers, family members, et cetera, who are all going
so when are you goin and get married? And that
(11:20):
just makes them more aware of the fact that they're
not married. Right. Well, I thought it was interesting too
that all of the women had been told by other
people they were just being too picky. And it reminds
me a lot of and Carolin, I don't know if
you heard about this book. It came out maybe last year. Um,
it got a lot of pressed. It was Laurie gott
(11:41):
Lie wrote it and it was called Marry Him, The
Case for Settling for Mr. Goodenough. Yeah, it upset a
lot of people. Yeah, because she was basically like, hey,
you know what, ladies, we're getting older. We need a
little bit of stability. Just take the nice guy who
you know might not might not set your heart of flame,
but he will make you a cast role sometimes. And
(12:01):
I'm really I mean that's really a you know, quite
a nutshell to put it in, but it's it's the
same kind of thing of like, hey, you know what,
stop being so picky. Um, the media has just fed
us lives about these independent women myths. Well yeah, and
also this notion that you know, you can have it
all in fun you know some an amazing partner. Uh so,
but just give up. Well that's like in the study
(12:25):
that we were just talking about, Um, somebody talked about
their grandmother who said, well, just just go ahead and
get married and have the baby. You can always divorce
him later. And I feel like that's part of this
really archaic might be too strong a word, but this
just this notion of like you have to do things
in a certain order. You go to school, you get married,
(12:46):
you have a baby, and then everything else is just second.
And then the baby goes to school, right, and then
you you torment the baby about when you're going to
meet somebody. Baby, but baby, baby. But speaking of unwet
or speaking of children, though, now be a good time
to bring up the fact that non marital births um
(13:06):
are becoming the norm as is. I mean, if we've
got a hundred million single folks, you know, a number
of whom are probably reproducing, you can imagine that the
rate of unwed motherhood has gone up. And it's not
just single mothers too, it's like people who are living together,
adopting children, or having children together. Um. And just to
(13:27):
give you an idea from the c d c UH,
sixty percent of non marital births in two thousand seven
or two women in their twenties, significantly higher than the
forty two percent level in nineteen seventy. Because back in
the seventies and before teen, pregnancy made up the large
proportion of non marital births. But now, you know, folks,
(13:51):
our rage, you're having kids and it's totally fine. And
that's kind of following in the footsteps of uh Iceland,
Sweden Norway were well over one half of recent births
are two women who aren't married. We're becoming so European. Um.
The Business Week article mentions along the same lines that
children will live with their mom and her boyfriend before
(14:14):
they turn sixteen, and it goes on to say that,
you know, it would be better for kids to have
a more stable environment to grow up in, but it
seems like this is going to be so much more
common than it already is. Well, I mean if studies
that they've done. It reminds me of um uh, some
research that came out last year looking at the child
(14:35):
outcomes from um, you know, same sex parents households, basically
wondering whether or not, you know, if kids are raised
by two men as opposed to a man and a woman,
will they be fine? And the answer is yes, yes,
if you have a stable, dual head household, then that's
(14:55):
the best chance for for positive outcomes. It does not
mean that you have to be married. So not all
numbers are super encouraging when we're talking about being single
and whatnot. Did you know according to the census breakdown
in that there are eighty eight unmarried men eighteen are
(15:18):
over for every one hundred single women eighteen and over,
there's a gapp It's like, yeah, it's unmarried US residents
over the age of eighteen were women. But yeah, then
it's like surprise when you break it down further, you know,
(15:38):
but don't confine yourself just to the American borders. Oh well,
you're right, you're right, and I have not you can
go elsewhere. But speaking of men, um, I have to
cross the junction. God, it's okay. You would have an
international site. I guess I can get to Canada. I
don't know those accents, but hey, a lot of connection.
(16:00):
Hey it was a joke. It was a joke. I have.
I have relative in Minnesota. Um. But speaking of men, though,
one thing that stood out to me from all this
single stigma information is that a lot of times it
seems like and maybe it's just the way the research
has been conducted, perhaps they said simply have not sat
(16:21):
men down and asked him, Hey, how do you feel
being the single guy at the table? Um? But it
seems like this social stigma is mostly directed at women
in their late twenties and thirties, and then you know,
beyond that, then we're just called crazy cat ladies and
forgotten about all star in our own Kathy Cartion. So
(16:42):
I'm wondering, I'm asking men out there, you know, is
there do you feel any kind of single stigma? Do
you feel pressure if you're in a relationship, Do you
feel the pressure to get married or somehow removing do
something to take it to the next step, to somehow
legitimize it in society's viewpoint, right, I mean, there definitely
(17:03):
are stigmas out there still, Um, despite the fact that
there's just this growing number of single people, people who
were living together or people who are just in long
term relationships and not getting married. It's growing, you know,
the numbers are getting bigger, but there's still a stigma. Well,
I think we kind of hit this point to where,
first of all, we live so long, so you know,
(17:24):
I mean, I mean, you're gonna be with someone for
a really long time, if it really is until death
to you part, and the divorce rate is so high,
and there is, at least with our generation, Caroline, not
this rush to find your career and find your spouse
and settled down. We're delaying marriage. We're hopping around trying
(17:45):
out different kinds of jobs and things like that. So
I'll be really interested to see, I don't know how
all of this shakes out and if we will at
some point kind of as a society mature out of
the heteronormaty of marriage structure. Yeah, it's it's I think
it's gonna be hard to move past that, the stereotypes,
(18:07):
the scripts and schema. Um. But I mean it's just
becoming so common, so obviously there's a disconnect there, right,
somewhat a cultural lag if you will. Yeah, so the
romantic sexual partner, it's just it's not the only way
to be satisfied in life people. Yeah, and maybe it's
time for us to reclaim the term single because that
(18:27):
also came up a lot, Like a lot of single
people do not like to label themselves as single because
it has that kind of cultural baggage of so what
do they call? And well, I don't know, maybe maybe
we should just make a single cool, you know, singles
the new Uh. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
(18:48):
I'm already failing it is and I can't suggestions. Well
help us out. Let us know your thoughts, UM, and
married people too. What what's your perspective on this growing
sea of singles around you or do you even notice
it at all? Send us an email mom Stuff at
how stuff works dot com. And I've got a little
(19:08):
email here to read right quick. Um, a little email. H.
This is in regard to our episode on women in
um journalism and broadcasting and uh, Patricia is offering us
insight into women and broadcasting in Germany. Uh. She said,
I just listened to the women in Broadcasting podcasts and
(19:29):
thought you might like to know that growing up in
Germany during the seventies, women were almost always anchored national
international news. We watched A R D and zd F.
I'm assuming those are to you the two main networks.
The women were always professional and conservatively dressed. They were
well groomed and very articulate, and they sat in front
of simple desks with very spartan backgrounds. There was no
(19:52):
fluff or flash. Um, and I'm gonna have to watch it.
She sent a link to some old school German news broadcasts,
so I'm gonna check it out. If you have any
links to send our way again, our email addresses mom
Stuff at how stuff works dot com. You can also
find us over on Facebook and follow us on Twitter
(20:13):
at mom Stuff Podcast. Of course, you can check out
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You at how stuff works dot com. Be sure to
check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future.
Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most
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(20:34):
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It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom Never told you?
From how stup works dot com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen. Kristen did some
(00:21):
reading this weekend, and did you know that one hundred
million Americans, that's over half the population are unmarried according
to the Census Bureau. This means that half of the
over eighteen population is being overlooked by some very important
policies talking about these single people, single adults, the single adults. Yeah,
(00:44):
and we ran across an article last week over at
Tara Parker Pope's wellness blog at the New York Times,
and she was reporting on how some social scientists and
researchers think that because of this huge population and growing
popular nation of American adult singles, that a lot of
them are being overlooked in terms of benefits, pay taxes
(01:08):
and things like that, and too much emphasis is being
put on the holy altar of marriage, right and you know, uh,
we're fighting for a marriage equality. Yeah, but whether you're
gay or straight, if you're single, you're going to be
left behind any marriage reform. You know, that's great, but
it's still leaving the single people out of that. And
(01:30):
Naomi Girstill, a sociologist at University of Massachusetts Amherst Um, says,
this push for marriage essentially assumes that if you don't
get married, there's something wrong with you. Um, but a
huge proportion of the population is unmarried, and the single
population is only going to grow. And um, there's this
September editorial. So a recent editorial and the Guardian um
(01:54):
sort of brings up the subject of should partners have
similar of rights to um, too married to to spouses? Yeah,
I started bringing up the the idea of reviving a
common common law kind of marriage. Right. Yeah, it said
something like it's been there's been no common law marriage
since the eighteenth century, but most of the population still
(02:17):
thinks that it exists. And uh, and it's good that
you bring up the issue of partners because when we
say single a lot of times you'll probably assume that
someone who's completely unattached, like not any kind of long
term or dating relationship at all. But remember, in this context,
single applies to just someone who is not married, right
(02:41):
And Um, So the Guardian was talking about the Office
for National Statistics which found that the key to a
strong marriage is actually to live together first. It's cohabitation,
UM and O and S suggests that cohabitation is seen
as promoting rather than competing with marriage, and uses UM
this argument to suggest that maybe we should have more
(03:03):
rights as as domestic partners or just you know, folks
living together. Yeah. And we've talked about premarital cohabitation as
it is formerly called on the podcast before and talking
about whether or not um it predicts divorced because there
was a study that came out a while ago saying
that people who lived together before they get married are
(03:24):
then more likely to get divorced. Are all of these
statistics that we saw about how people who lived together
who were unmarried, you know, they drink more, and they
weigh more, and they have lower incomes and you know,
basically at all coming emphasizing this point over and over
again that that marriage, you know, especially the heterosexual marriage
ideal is uh is where it's at in terms of
(03:47):
family stability. UM. But a lot of times to people
who are promoting those kind of ideas are uh, you
know a little more conservative little agenda based. Yeah, people's
ideas of maror edge are often based on things that
they grew up with, the norms that they were surrounded by,
and these ideals and norms can actually have a big
(04:10):
effect on the workplace. And according to a Business Week
article from a couple of years ago, UM, unmarried people
wind up making an average less than their married colleagues
for the same work just because of this marriage centric
structure that we have going on. Right, they're just more
built in uh benefits for people who are married and
(04:33):
have children UM. And there have been a lot of
companies since this Business Week article came out that have
tried to be more inclusive, specifically for like same sex
partners UM kind of taking away the the formal you know,
box of of marriage to the to provide rights for
UM our benefits for other people. But at the same time,
(04:55):
you know, the penalties still exists. And what is that
the Family UM Medical Leave Act like a federal law.
Bella Depolo is a psychologist and she is one of
the number one voices about singleism. She even coined the
term singleism UH to as a catch all for the
(05:16):
you know, kind of anti single discrimination against single folks. Yes, discrimination, Yeah,
And she cites the Family and Medical Leave Act as
an example of it, because legally, since she's single and
doesn't have any children, no one can take time off
under the law to care for her if she becomes
really sick, and it's not required that she'd be given
(05:37):
time off to care for siblings, nephews, close friends. I mean,
in my case, I have um a number of I've
lost count and have a number of nieces and nephews
and UM, and it would be great to have, you know,
similar freedom to be able to, you know, pick them
up from soccer practice. If my sister was in a
bind or right, it's it would be nice to know
(05:58):
that you wouldn't lose your job because you had to
take care of one of those nieces or nephews, you know,
if they were sick or or a sibling. It would
be nice to know you had a job to come
back to, or even a good friend or a podcast.
I'm in good health, though, I assure you. And the
thing is, single people could use some more assistance because
(06:19):
statistically we're the ones putting in UM, you know, the
volunteer hours UM kind of keeping things running into your society,
right and our communities and parents. Before you turn off
the podcast to say, you don't understand. I don't have
you know, I don't have time to do this. I'm
caring for children. It's not parenthood that's the issue. According
(06:42):
to Naomi Girsl that's sociologists from Amherst that Caroline mentioned earlier.
She told The New York Times, it's not having children
that isolates people, it's actually the marriage break it down. Yeah,
once people get married, they tend to turn their energies inward.
They've played the game, they they got their partner and
I'm not at that sounds really cynical and I'm not
(07:03):
really that cynical, but um, yeah, No. Studies have shown
that once people get married, they turn their focus away
from friendships, extended family and the community and turn it
inward on their own family that they're building. Yeah, I'm
just for an example. This is from the Council and
contemporary Families. UM, looking at who is taking care of
(07:23):
aging parents with the booming or the the aging boomer
population of unmarried women take care of parents compared to
six percent of married women. For men, it's only sixty
seven percent of unmarried men compared to just thirty eight
percent of married guys and then also, unmarried people are
(07:45):
more connected with family, community and have higher volunteerism rates UM.
One in five take part in volunteer works such as teaching, coaching,
raising money for charities, and things like that. Right, yeah,
I have all sorts of time to go volunteer with
projects around Atlanta, being that I'm a single person who
eats lots of chocolates. I you know what I do too,
(08:07):
and I'm gonna be honest with you right now, I don't.
I don't volunteer enough. Well, I volunteer time at my
my keyboard. Good, you keep that economy role at my laptop.
But I hope you get out some Kristen, that you're
not just sitting your keyboard, because if you didn't get
out and have friends, you would be the odd ball.
Because the statistics says that even more than I are
(08:28):
even more UM at all educational levels, unmarried individuals not
only have more friends than they're married counterparts, but they
give these friends more care, both practical and emotional. So
I'm here for you, thank you, And for married people,
I'm here for you too, although I won't understand your problems.
But here's the thing though, the point of the podcast
(08:49):
was to talk about this, the answer the question of
whether or not it's single people are stigmatized. And here's
the thing. Not to make us sound like, uh, you
know some major stereotypes right now, Caroline, but you and
I fit into the demographic where we're about to get
(09:10):
really really stigmatized unless we put a ring on it soon.
Yeah ring myself. Yeah. Being married by age and I'm
about to hit is consistent with the normative pattern and
snaff ideology snaff standing for the standard North American family,
(09:33):
the ideal of like, you get married, you have two
point five kids, you get a white pick events. So
is the age for women where that's like within the
normal range, and so I have gone past that. But
although the average um statistically, I think according to census data,
the average age for women getting married is like twenty
six point seven years old. So you're, I mean, like,
(09:55):
you're closer, You're closer than you think. You're just not
right at that at that snaff saying, because so I
feel so much better. Um, I, on the other hand,
I am about I'm I'm rapidly approaching twenty seven and
so I got I'm onna like husband countdown. I don't
have anyone else that two months that I can beat
(10:16):
the odds. Um. Yeah, we're talking about single stigma and
the fact that we are rapidly approaching the end of
our I don't know whatever acceptable stereotypical marriage period. UM
two thousand nine study by researchers at the University of
Missouri and Texas Tech called and I love this. I'm
(10:36):
not a loser. I'm not married. Let's all just look
at me. UM talked with ten women who were in
their thirties. Right in their thirties, UM talked to them
about what it was like being single, and a lot
of these women definitely said they felt stigmatized, despite the
fact that they were successful in their careers, had good
lives otherwise. Part of this is that they were made
(10:59):
to be away air of the changing realities as they
got older. There were certain triggers that they faced, like
going to weddings, going to showers, you know, but a
lot of it. A big trigger is people around them
like coworkers, family members, et cetera, who are all going
so when are you goin and get married? And that
(11:20):
just makes them more aware of the fact that they're
not married. Right. Well, I thought it was interesting too
that all of the women had been told by other
people they were just being too picky. And it reminds
me a lot of and Carolin, I don't know if
you heard about this book. It came out maybe last year. Um,
it got a lot of pressed. It was Laurie gott
(11:41):
Lie wrote it and it was called Marry Him, The
Case for Settling for Mr. Goodenough. Yeah, it upset a
lot of people. Yeah, because she was basically like, hey,
you know what, ladies, we're getting older. We need a
little bit of stability. Just take the nice guy who
you know might not might not set your heart of flame,
but he will make you a cast role sometimes. And
(12:01):
I'm really I mean that's really a you know, quite
a nutshell to put it in, but it's it's the
same kind of thing of like, hey, you know what,
stop being so picky. Um, the media has just fed
us lives about these independent women myths. Well yeah, and
also this notion that you know, you can have it
all in fun you know some an amazing partner. Uh so,
but just give up. Well that's like in the study
(12:25):
that we were just talking about, Um, somebody talked about
their grandmother who said, well, just just go ahead and
get married and have the baby. You can always divorce
him later. And I feel like that's part of this
really archaic might be too strong a word, but this
just this notion of like you have to do things
in a certain order. You go to school, you get married,
(12:46):
you have a baby, and then everything else is just second.
And then the baby goes to school, right, and then
you you torment the baby about when you're going to
meet somebody. Baby, but baby, baby. But speaking of unwet
or speaking of children, though, now be a good time
to bring up the fact that non marital births um
(13:06):
are becoming the norm as is. I mean, if we've
got a hundred million single folks, you know, a number
of whom are probably reproducing, you can imagine that the
rate of unwed motherhood has gone up. And it's not
just single mothers too, it's like people who are living together,
adopting children, or having children together. Um. And just to
(13:27):
give you an idea from the c d c UH,
sixty percent of non marital births in two thousand seven
or two women in their twenties, significantly higher than the
forty two percent level in nineteen seventy. Because back in
the seventies and before teen, pregnancy made up the large
proportion of non marital births. But now, you know, folks,
(13:51):
our rage, you're having kids and it's totally fine. And
that's kind of following in the footsteps of uh Iceland,
Sweden Norway were well over one half of recent births
are two women who aren't married. We're becoming so European. Um.
The Business Week article mentions along the same lines that
children will live with their mom and her boyfriend before
(14:14):
they turn sixteen, and it goes on to say that,
you know, it would be better for kids to have
a more stable environment to grow up in, but it
seems like this is going to be so much more
common than it already is. Well, I mean if studies
that they've done. It reminds me of um uh, some
research that came out last year looking at the child
(14:35):
outcomes from um, you know, same sex parents households, basically
wondering whether or not, you know, if kids are raised
by two men as opposed to a man and a woman,
will they be fine? And the answer is yes, yes,
if you have a stable, dual head household, then that's
(14:55):
the best chance for for positive outcomes. It does not
mean that you have to be married. So not all
numbers are super encouraging when we're talking about being single
and whatnot. Did you know according to the census breakdown
in that there are eighty eight unmarried men eighteen are
(15:18):
over for every one hundred single women eighteen and over,
there's a gapp It's like, yeah, it's unmarried US residents
over the age of eighteen were women. But yeah, then
it's like surprise when you break it down further, you know,
(15:38):
but don't confine yourself just to the American borders. Oh well,
you're right, you're right, and I have not you can
go elsewhere. But speaking of men, um, I have to
cross the junction. God, it's okay. You would have an
international site. I guess I can get to Canada. I
don't know those accents, but hey, a lot of connection.
(16:00):
Hey it was a joke. It was a joke. I have.
I have relative in Minnesota. Um. But speaking of men, though,
one thing that stood out to me from all this
single stigma information is that a lot of times it
seems like and maybe it's just the way the research
has been conducted, perhaps they said simply have not sat
(16:21):
men down and asked him, Hey, how do you feel
being the single guy at the table? Um? But it
seems like this social stigma is mostly directed at women
in their late twenties and thirties, and then you know,
beyond that, then we're just called crazy cat ladies and
forgotten about all star in our own Kathy Cartion. So
(16:42):
I'm wondering, I'm asking men out there, you know, is
there do you feel any kind of single stigma? Do
you feel pressure if you're in a relationship, Do you
feel the pressure to get married or somehow removing do
something to take it to the next step, to somehow
legitimize it in society's viewpoint, right, I mean, there definitely
(17:03):
are stigmas out there still, Um, despite the fact that
there's just this growing number of single people, people who
were living together or people who are just in long
term relationships and not getting married. It's growing, you know,
the numbers are getting bigger, but there's still a stigma. Well,
I think we kind of hit this point to where,
first of all, we live so long, so you know,
(17:24):
I mean, I mean, you're gonna be with someone for
a really long time, if it really is until death
to you part, and the divorce rate is so high,
and there is, at least with our generation, Caroline, not
this rush to find your career and find your spouse
and settled down. We're delaying marriage. We're hopping around trying
(17:45):
out different kinds of jobs and things like that. So
I'll be really interested to see, I don't know how
all of this shakes out and if we will at
some point kind of as a society mature out of
the heteronormaty of marriage structure. Yeah, it's it's I think
it's gonna be hard to move past that, the stereotypes,
(18:07):
the scripts and schema. Um. But I mean it's just
becoming so common, so obviously there's a disconnect there, right,
somewhat a cultural lag if you will. Yeah, so the
romantic sexual partner, it's just it's not the only way
to be satisfied in life people. Yeah, and maybe it's
time for us to reclaim the term single because that
(18:27):
also came up a lot, Like a lot of single
people do not like to label themselves as single because
it has that kind of cultural baggage of so what
do they call? And well, I don't know, maybe maybe
we should just make a single cool, you know, singles
the new Uh. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
(18:48):
I'm already failing it is and I can't suggestions. Well
help us out. Let us know your thoughts, UM, and
married people too. What what's your perspective on this growing
sea of singles around you or do you even notice
it at all? Send us an email mom Stuff at
how stuff works dot com. And I've got a little
(19:08):
email here to read right quick. Um, a little email. H.
This is in regard to our episode on women in
um journalism and broadcasting and uh, Patricia is offering us
insight into women and broadcasting in Germany. Uh. She said,
I just listened to the women in Broadcasting podcasts and
(19:29):
thought you might like to know that growing up in
Germany during the seventies, women were almost always anchored national
international news. We watched A R D and zd F.
I'm assuming those are to you the two main networks.
The women were always professional and conservatively dressed. They were
well groomed and very articulate, and they sat in front
of simple desks with very spartan backgrounds. There was no
(19:52):
fluff or flash. Um, and I'm gonna have to watch it.
She sent a link to some old school German news broadcasts,
so I'm gonna check it out. If you have any
links to send our way again, our email addresses mom
Stuff at how stuff works dot com. You can also
find us over on Facebook and follow us on Twitter
(20:13):
at mom Stuff Podcast. Of course, you can check out
the blog during the week It's stuff Mom Never told
You at how stuff works dot com. Be sure to
check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future.
Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most
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