The Spectrum of Sexuality

Are women inherently more complicated than men when it comes to sexuality?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, this is Andy and this is Amantha, and welcome
to stuff I've never told to your protection of I
Heart Radios. How stuff works. Today, listeners were tackling a
big topic, M huge huge um, sexuality. Yeah yeah, and uh,

(00:31):
there is a lot to say here and we're probably
going to expound on some of it in future episodes. Um.
But first we wanted to start with a kind of
primer on sex versus gender versus sexuality. And let's go
ahead and say there are some SKay topics not necessarily
too graphic, but just in case you don't want any

(00:53):
of the youths to hear this from us necessarily before
you vet it, I mean you, the listener, You may
want to take a pause, come back to it, and
then if you feel it's so appropriate, go for it.
Just put that warning out good notes amanthem Alright, So,
I imagine most people are familiar with this, but we thought,

(01:13):
since we're going to be using a lot of these terms,
we'll we'll just go ahead and say what they are.
So sex is also called physical or biological sex, and
this is based on physical characteristics, hormones, and genes. And
we know that this can be more complicated than a
lot of people believe as clear cut as a lot
of people like to make it. Perhaps, Um, there's male, female,

(01:36):
and intersex, and intersex is when physical characteristics typical of
both sexes are present. Then there's gender, which is the
societal performance around biological sex, being masculine or being feminine.
Some identifies both, some identify as neither, Some identify as
the opposite of their biological sex. And this brings us

(01:58):
to so sxuality actuality. Yes, sexuality refers to the people
you are physically are romantically attractive to. And yes, this
is can also be more complicated than a lot of
people like to think, right, or that we for a

(02:19):
long time have thought that right. And as we are
more and more open about it, the labels or the
titles are slowly either becoming more broad or disappearing altogether. Yes, absolutely,
and sexuality is complex and deeply personal. It also is

(02:39):
frequently more fluid than we have thought of it in
the past. Um, And it can be confusing. I can
I can raise my hand to that one. It's all
about how you choose to identify. Not that sexual orientation
is the choice, but the label that you choose that
and you don't even have to label it. Nope, you don't. Also,
when I was typing in sexuality the old Google, one

(03:01):
of the top results came up seventeen types of sexuality.
So a lot of options out there, why I mean,
And we were talking about the polyamory Polly world in
its why arrays as well have different titles. As you
said earlier, it's very personal, so you don't owe anyone
an explanation in the story. Yes, yes, um, So some

(03:26):
popular ways people have chosen to identify their straight, gay,
lesbian by pan or pan sexual, Polly, a sexual or
ace fluid queer. There are a lot of labels out there, right, um,
and then there are a lot of folks skewing labels entirely.
And you know what. Some of that has to do
with education and understanding, um. Specifically in my job filled

(03:50):
we actually had to have training statewide um to talk
about these labels in the misdirection and or misunderstanding of
what it can be, it can look like, and how
it should be acknowledged. So it's a big thing. It
has been to the point that people are starting to
actually learn about it and educate themselves or at least

(04:12):
educate their staff as we are going along with this
time frame. Of course, attitudes that are slightly turning again unfortunately,
but it is still good to know that there are
those out there that do understand that this needs to
be talked about and this needs to be something that
people are educated about. Yes, absolutely, because I think if

(04:33):
you don't ever see yourself represented in media or just
in in general in our real world, um, you might
not know. Like for me, I think for a long
time I was trying to fit into a certain thing
because I didn't really know right there were other things,
other ways that I might identify. And getting this education

(04:57):
around it, I see, And it is a spectrum. I
know that term is kind of like trendy, but it
is trendy because it's more relatable and actually more accurate. Yes,
that's why it's trendy. Absolutely, it's trendy because it's true.
And a note about queer because a few of you
have written in and asked about it. Queer can be

(05:20):
used to mean any non hetero orientation and or if
none of the labels, the other labels quite encapsulate your experience.
And a note about a sexuality. As I've said, still
figuring this whole thing out. But I very rarely, almost
never feel sexual attraction. And there are a couple of
types of a sexuality. And we're actually bringing someone in

(05:42):
to speak specifically about this in the future, so look
forward to that. But just a kind of brief explanation.
There's gray a sexuality, which describes someone who might feel
sexual attraction only after an intense emotional bond with someone.
I think this is where I am, or maybe sort
of a mixture of both, and some A sexuals never
experienced sexual attraction. There, there's a variety of experiences and

(06:06):
you know, um, it could be said that that could
be true for anybody's sexuality. Anybody who has a label
or feels attraction. A lot of people cannot feel like
sexually attracted unless it's an emotional bond. Like I said,
I've had a guy friend who was this very similar
to that, says like I don't want anything to do
with it unless I really care love them, And I

(06:26):
don't know if he would call himself a sexual. Um,
he's married and happily living his life. Um, But yeah,
I think that's not so abnormal to be said for
in relationships in general. Right, There's another subset called auto
chorus sexuality, which is when there's a disconnect between the
person and the object of sexual desire. Um. And I

(06:50):
remember personally when all my friends started feeling sexual attraction
and I did it, and I was just like faking it,
laughing along with them and be like, oh, yeah, that's
so hot. Um, and I felt so out of place.
But I thought, surely one day a switch will flip
and I'll feel it and I'll fit in, And it
just never really happened. That's okay too. It is also

(07:11):
todd On BoJack Horsemen is probably one of the first
times I've ever seen in a sexual character in media
that I've consumed something else that comes into play, or
things like bi romantic just romantic interest in those sexes
and a romantic experiencing sexual attraction but not romantic attraction.
And sexuality also encompasses sexual attitudes, values, and fantasies. From

(07:36):
the World Health Organization quote essential aspect of being human
throughout life encompasses sex, gender identities and roles, sexual orientation, eroticism, pleasure, intimacy,
and reproduction. Sexuality is experienced and expressed and thoughts, fantasies, desires, beliefs, attitudes, values, behaviors, practices, rules,
and relationships. While sexuality can include all of these dimensions,

(07:58):
not all of them are all is experienced or expressed.
Sexuality is influenced by the interaction of biological, physiological, social, economic, political, cultural, legal, historical, religious,
and spiritual factors. So a lot there you go. Yeah,
there's a lot of things that attribute to your sexuality.
There are, um, and as we discussed before, the whole

(08:20):
concept of sexuality has become more fluid, which also can
be a part of the similarities of the label of
bisexuality and pain sexuality and by definition bisexuality is references
with the idea of only two genders as where pen
sexuality is more inclusive and recognize the sexuality as more
than just two but includes trans, non binary, and gender queer.
And I thought it was really important that we kind

(08:41):
of break these down a little further because even for
me um, learning about these different types of labels and
understanding what this is kind of opens your eyes to, oh,
these are the possibilities and or this makes sense in
the idea of the fluidity of sexuality and just understanding
ourselves as women and the desires that we want in general,
and I also wanted to break down the Polly relationships

(09:03):
um as it specifies with possible gender labels. For one
man and more than one woman is polygony, and for
one woman and more than one man is polyandry. And
obviously that this is a very gender normative specific title,
but if you want to kind of look within that,
there's also the stereotype of the idea of unicorn hunting,

(09:23):
which is in the polity community, finding the bisexual woman
a k the jewel, and according to one article, this
is usually something that can cause more hiccups in a
relationship than anything and often not successful in the long run.
And again it's kind of more of a cliche than
anything else in the community. And with that, there's even
even bigger breakdown of titles within the relationships, including ethical

(09:47):
non monogamy, which is the overarching term that includes Polly
swinging and as such, and then other titles like hierarchical,
non hierarchical, tryout, quad and fluid and conversy. And I'll
just put that in there when breaking it down even deeper, um,
you can know that these types of relationships is very
loyal based and open because of the level of trust

(10:07):
involved in openness of communications, which I did find fascinating
when you start like reading into different people's relationships, different
people's actual experiences, it shows this whole need and whole
necessity of communicating with each other. It's kind of understandable
why this could be a beautiful thing. And and and
it can actually work because they have to communicate, which

(10:29):
is oftentimes what breaks now in a relationship in general.
And it's not as so the show Big Love, which
kind of has this stereotypical Mormon idea of polygamy and
kind of has this whole hierarchical type of relationship within
and and it it is more of an entertainment idea.

(10:49):
And when you look at based off of that and
based on reality, what people talk about, how they talk
about how this works, it is this understanding of meeting
each other's knee. It's as necessary and it's it's a
beautiful concept. I know a lot of listeners are written
in and there in polyamorous relationships, so that is something

(11:12):
we definitely should return to and talk about more right
And also, Bridget and I did an episode forever Ago.
What seems like forever ago time has no meaning to
me anymore, um about pan sexuality versus bisexuality and how
it was just kind of the terms changing. But again
it has to do with like what you what makes

(11:36):
sense to you and you feel and again just kind
of opening up and realizing these they are there are
these types of relationships that are bigger than just a
small label. Yeah. Absolutely we have some more to talk
about with you listeners, but first we have a quick
break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back,

(12:07):
Thank you sponsored. If we think about the popular view
on women in sexuality, I would argue that it's been
painted in more complicated, shall we say, terms as compared
to men's. Um, women are mysterious, their desires are mysterious,
and their desires are different from men's. Men are from Mars,

(12:28):
women are from Venus, as it were. But recent studies
are showing more and more that this is not necessarily
the case, right and still many people still believe this though.
The new sex strike that we were recently talking about
has brought out a lot of men who are burning
themselves pretty much stating women don't enjoy sex like men

(12:48):
and don't need it as much as men a k A.
They can't pleasure. Women have never experienced pleasuring a woman apparently.
I'm just gonna I'm just gonna say that because obviously,
if you feel that strongly that women cannot be pleasured,
and you know this says the man, you're doing something wrong.
I just want to tell you that. I just want

(13:11):
to tell you that I'm sorry. Again. I'm very open
about the fact that I do very much enjoy sex,
and I do very much. Um, I need to be
laid on sometimes, you know, and for me, if it's
not enjoyable, I'm not gonna do it right. In the
story we're giving each other, we're very intu wish we

(13:31):
can't camera right now about how fierce we are looking
at you like maha, yeah, girl, say it hmm wow.
For a long time, science has seemingly supported this popular
opinion that women's sexuality and sexual desire is more complicated
than men's. And I'm sure some of you saw these
popular science headlines like men think about sex more frequently

(13:53):
than women, they masturate more than women, etcetera. A lot
of these studies were flawed and they lacked women involved
in the research, both on the scientist side and on
the subject side. According to a professor of psychology. Sorry
von Hoder's quote. In almost all areas of research, men
are understood to be humans and women are understood as

(14:15):
gender or a special case. Things can seem complicated when
they differ from a standard. In other words, men are
the human body standard and women are deviation from the
human body state. Right, and again, I think this is
another tale of how men and I don't mean all
men are playing hashtag got all. Well, I'm just saying

(14:37):
I've been with those who understand the female body a
little better than others and have recognized, whether it's from
actually paying attention to anatomy or actually researching or whatever,
what women do enjoy don't enjoy, or rather are communicating
with women to find out what they do or don't,
or those who identify as female what they ende a way,

(15:00):
because even though yes, we are different, each woman in
ourselves have different appreciations and different likes, So obviously you're
gonna have to plan out exactly what is there and
what isn't there. Was comfortable, it was not comfortable in
the story done Yeah again, communication all the time, um

(15:20):
history rise, researching women's sexuality was seen as taboo and
or not worth the time or money, so women were
excluded from a lot of studies on the subject. Alfred
Kinsey's nineteen fifty three books Sexual Behavior and the Human Female,
which included accounts from six thousand women, was so scandalous
Congress investigated into where Kinsey got his money. Can't be

(15:45):
spending women money on women? Come home? No. When Van
Anders was a student, um and she's the one I
quoted earlier, she noticed that all the anatomical diagrams of
nerves were of men, which are generally the same, but
not when it comes to sexual organs. When she asked
a professor about it, he kind of shrugged, like who cares, yea,
we care. Research into female sexuality really didn't start happening

(16:09):
until the nineteen nineties and two thousands. A two thousand
eleven report on a study conducted to a sensory map
of women was the first of its kind, meaning we
had no idea if genital stimulation for women lit up
the same parts of the brain as it did for men.
Turns out they do. It do correlate to meends surprise,

(16:29):
but it also showed that there are some differences. Study
found that sexual desire is actually complicated for everybody again surprise,
and men and women experience it in pretty much the
same way. It also found that, contrary to popular believe
that sexual desire does not typically express itself and spontaneous
and a spontaneous, animalistic kind of way. Meaning yet that yes,

(16:51):
men desire emotional connection a lot of times too, write um.
Other studies on both heterosexual and homosexual people found that
when shown sexually explicit videos of their preference, they experienced
desire in similar ways, and another recent survey of four
thousand Americans found that men and women fantasized similarly and

(17:11):
reported similar reasons for wanting sex pleasure mostly Right, studies
into testosterone I've shown that his impact on sex drive
is not as clear cut as we previously thought, nor
is the spike of desire attached to ovulation. Men can
experience spikes and false too, depending on a variety of factors. Right,
And all of those kind of made me delve into

(17:33):
women in porn because I think it's fascinating subject in itself,
and I know people are talking about it a little more.
Couples have talked about it a little more as part
of their activity. Um. But according to an article I
read it said. Porn Hub reported a hundred and fifty
six million people viewed the site in I think early
twenty eighteen, so last year, and a quarter of those

(17:54):
people or were identified as women. So what I think
you and I are counting out nubers. At least starting
eight million women went to look at the site, and
according to an article from The Daily Dot, uh, they
talked about the fact that one in three of the
viewers of porn are actually women, which I really was like, oh, yeah,
that that makes sense. And they also talk about the

(18:16):
fact that women enjoy viewing just as much as men. Um.
They enjoy watching women on women. They like the plots,
they enjoy watching it by themselves plots. Yes, so when
they have like the milkman coming to deliver you know whatever,
and or you know, all those different fantasy ideas, they

(18:38):
want the plot. They want the plot of the milkman coming. Yeah,
they want to know why did the milkman come through? Um.
But it did also talk about the fact that the
women spend a longer time watching porn than men. I
think it was like a minute less, yeah, a minute
less than women, which I've found fascinating. But they did

(19:00):
talk about the fact, but maybe it takes a little
while longer for women to be stimulated or they actually
are enjoying the plot as we just said, so therefore
they watch were a little longer. But I thought that
was something to be said. Um, when we talk about
the porn things, and then we do have to talk
about back and forth about the misogynistic ideas within porn
as well, and and what is healthy and what is unhealthy.

(19:22):
It's such a fine line. But I think that's also
just opens up again about the fact that women do
have vast fantasies as well as men, as well as
desires that are different from your every day I need
to make babies, yeah, which I would say is the same.

(19:43):
I know you and I are talking about um sex
toys later on. Obviously there's female sex toys out there
because we do enjoy pleasure, end of story, and it
should be noticed they should be um regarded as something
that is normal m hm. And just to have a
conversation how to pleasure yourself because of all things, you're

(20:05):
gonna want to know that. We all need to know that. Yeah. Yeah, um,
and uh, I feel like every episode is homework for
future episodes. Which really is I like, UM, no no
shorts of topics to to tackle. But UM, we have
a little bit more to talk about. But first we
have one more quick break for word from our sponsor

(20:38):
and we're back, Thank you, spotsors. A lot of women
have written in about the question of UM, feminist porn
and can porn be feminist? And there are certain initiatives
and certain people working the field to make feminist porn,
so I would love to talk about that and the future. UM.
Also before we close out here, marking up the waters

(21:01):
of this whole thing is gender norms. UM. Men tend
to overreport sexual desire because they're expected to, and women
tend to under report because they're right because women are
still taught to be a shame of their sexuality still UM,
and therefore it's going to admit if you're based on
a shame factor. Yeah, exactly. So UM, A lot more

(21:27):
research needs to be done having these open conversations, but UM,
I think there's much more vast there's vaster experiences out
there than we previously have recognized. UM, and I'm glad
that we're being more right open about it and and

(21:49):
and just so uh, you guys, the audience that understand
know that we are going to be talking about swinging
and open relationships a little more um in depth later on.
I think for any and I, both of us are
not necessarily in those types of relationships, or in relationships
at all, So therefore we don't have as much to
say other than researching what it looks like and how

(22:10):
it can be and understanding these types of relationships. And
I think it's also good to know obviously we've condensed
this down vastly, and what we're opening up to is
understanding sexuality and pleasure and women and and and whether
how it affects us every days. As we're talking at
this time once again about women's bodies, reproduction, women's rights,

(22:36):
it has to be kind of like the basis of
you've got to understand women and who they are, and
what they enjoy and what they don't enjoy, and what
the purpose of sex and what the purpose of everything else,
and I'm periods and in all of those other things,
and pregnancies are not wanting being pregnant. I think it's
important to understand women as humans or those who identify

(22:59):
as female as human and understanding that not only are
we trying to understand ourselves and fight for the common
desires to have whatever relationships, non relationships, sex life, whatever
that looks like. That it is a part of the

(23:20):
things that we're trying to talk about when it comes
to our bodies, it comes to our rights, and it
comes to our desires and wants. And that's kind of like,
how do we even begin this conversation? Well here here, Um, Yeah, women,
people who identify as female. We are not a deviant

(23:40):
from the norm. We are just people who are being
a little to honest maybe or just just honest. That's us.
But we would love to hear from listeners your thoughts
on um sexuality. We also want to hear if we've
made a mistake in some of the research. We want

(24:01):
to know all the facts. We want to know your
experiences as well if it does contradict some of the
things we've said or some of the things that we found,
because I think that's absolutely something that's important for us
to learn with you, right, always growing and learning together.
And you can email us at our new email address,
STEPH Media Mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. The

(24:24):
old email will still work. Do not panic. Do not panic, Yes,
and you can find us on social media. You can
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to our super producer Andrew Howard Andrew, and thanks to
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(24:44):
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