May 25, 2011 • 19 mins
For years, there was a stereotype that women couldn't effectively deliver the news. Yet today women are all over newscasts. However, Katie Couric is leaving CBS and being replaced by a man. What does this mean for gender equality? Listen in to learn more.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stump Mom never told you?
From House Step Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Molly and Molly. Today
(00:21):
is a very special day. The Day of recordments the dayners. Today.
We gotta wish happy birthday to a very special news anchor.
And I'm not talking about Silver Fox Anderson Cooper. I
see three six day. It's Brian Williams's birthday. Brian Williams.
I gotta say, is my favorite. I know you're supposed
to be objective and due hid your biases that I
(00:44):
want to hang out with Brian Williams. I just want
to like, drink a beer and do the Crossford with them,
is what I told Kristin Earlio and thirty Rock with him. Yeah,
I'll wait in the green room. Why does the Daily Show? Yeah,
I mean I just want to hang out. Let's go
get Chinese food Brian Williams. But what about what if
Katie Kirk was like, Hey, I'll hang out with you instead.
(01:04):
I make so much money, we can do lots of
things that money to people do. I mean, I wouldn't
turn down an opportunity like that, but I gotta say
Brian Wims is where it's at for me. And I've
kind of been grappling with that because today is the
second part of our Women in Journalism Spectacular, and today
we're talking about anchors and all the news about anchors,
(01:27):
and particularly in UH six pm, six at pm depending
on where you live UH national news time slot, all
the nieces about Katie KERRK. Yeah. I feel like someone there.
There reporters out there who are as signed to a
Katie Kirk beat any any change in any contract clause.
This woman has somehow makes it to the top of
(01:49):
the news feed and I find it fascinating. Um because
she broke a significant barrier. She became of the first
woman to solo host Yes UH the National News, as
opposed to Connie Chung, who did a duel hosting with
Peter Jennings. Walters also did co host YES from nine
to nine b walt b Well be Waltz, she co hosted,
(02:13):
but Katie was solo, flying solo, and if you remember
those months before she took the anchor chair, the speculation
was at a fever pitch. I mean, what is she
going to do with that? I don't want to overstate it, Kristen,
but it kind of remember reminded me of some royal
wedding coverage. It was like, what is she gonna wear?
Will be able to see her legs? Is she gonna
(02:33):
be as perky as she is on the Today shore?
Will she be more sober when she's reporting really sad news?
You know? Will she do interviews? Well? We will she
make pancakes? Yeah? It was crazy because people were just saying,
this is an iconic moment for women as a whole.
I didn't realize it was until the papers told me
that this woman, for the first time was taking on
(02:54):
a position that was very male, very white, and fairly old.
And you know, Katie Kirk, you know, related some of
the other people, not Brian Williams, of course, it was
much younger and other people who told the chair so was.
You know, she became the symbol that everyone had to
project everything onto. And now that the news has come
that she's stepping down, everyone's in it tizzy like what
(03:15):
does this mean for women? Sure, we've had Diane Sawyer
take the start and take the chair in the meantime.
But what does it mean that Katie Kurtt couldn't make
this work and that she was the third rated newscast
And what does it all mean from women? And who's
taking over? A man? Scott Scott Pelleys. How you say
his last name, Pelly? I think so, um, yeah, he's
he's taking over and and a fine gent at that.
(03:35):
Nothing nothing Scotty. But I just want to know why
we get so in in such a tizzy, in such
a whirligig about who's sitting at the news desk at NBC,
ABC and CBS. Because when it comes to local news stations,
the question we posted with this podcast episode is where
(03:56):
the women anchors? Answer? Everywhere? Yeah, they're everywhere where except
those three chairs, and now they were in two of
them probably a long time. But yeah, in Atlanta, I
mean we've got Monica Kaufman, Javita More, they're just women
coming out the wazoo. I grew up with a female
news anchor like this wouldn't have if you had had
me list off the you know, top five professions I
could think of where women were always there local news reporter,
(04:17):
news anchor and and so yeah, and and that's what
The Washington Post highlighted in a two thousand six pieces
that every audition tape that network managers get for on
air talent, it's all women. It's a lot of ladies.
And I got some more stats to throw at you.
Here we go where the women anchors locally, they're there
(04:38):
because fifty seven percent of the positions UM in nationwide survey,
it's all women. Women account for more than half of
TV reporters, half of middle managers and executive producers, news producers,
and news writers. Now when we come to news directors,
then we get a little more male skewed. But it's
(05:00):
a lot of gals out there. And it might be
because two thirds of the bachelor's degrees in journalism and
mass com are going to the ladies well. And it
also might be, according to The Washington Post, that news
anchor is not the um, you know, landmark job that
it used to be. UM. If you're local, you may
not be paid very much. People are saying thousand dollars,
(05:21):
people are saying. The men are just kind of saying
that this is not the career path to choose. There
are better and more lucrative ways to make money in journalism.
But and that, and that's try on the local thing.
I mean maybe that's why the local men are opting out.
But on the national scale, it's just you can't get
away from these big three seats and and why women
(05:42):
are in them are not in them. Yeah, And obviously,
since we talked about money the main networks, obviously we'll
bring you a lot more cash. For instance, Mss Barbara
Walters the Waltz made broadcast history in nineteen seventy six
when she inked a million dollar deal with ABC. And
you know, to bring up Barbara Walters, you still see
(06:03):
Barbara Walters everywhere on television. She's on the view, she sewenty.
People might be confused about why this is an issue
because if you watch you know, sixty minutes, you watch
um MSNBC, Good Morning Fox or a morning show, Yeah,
you see women everywhere. There's always a co host whose
female or UM they anchor their own shows like the
Rachel Matt aw Show. UM And some people are like, oh,
(06:26):
you see plenty of women reading the news, but people
keep separating out this thirty minute national news slot. So yeah,
in terms of like news magazine's morning shows, and those
things make more money for the networks than the national
news do. In terms of those, I think women are
still representable and making some pretty cool strides. There was
a good article by Rebecca Tracer about how the two
thousand and eight election in which we had Hillary Clinton
(06:48):
and Sarah Palin really allowed women to shine because, um,
you know, sometimes they talk about how when Charlie Gibson
interviewed Sarah Palin, for example, it came across as very
condescending and male bullying a woman, whereas when it was
Katie Kirk, they're saying that, you know, while the outcome
may not have been very good for Sarah Palin, that
was the famous um what newspaper do you read interview? Um,
(07:10):
you know it didn't. It came across as two women
talking and sparring, as opposed to like a sexist battle.
So saying that, you know, having women in the election
gave these female replayers a chance to shine on television,
Or when Campbell Brown said, hey, we need to stop
talking about what Hillary Clinton Sarah Palin are wearing, because
we're not talking about how much you know Barack Obama's suits,
(07:32):
got right. But this issue with women in the anchor
seat in the networks not. We We've answered a question
of where they are, and they're all in the local
seats and that seems a okay. But in the network seats,
this G word comes up over and over and over again.
(07:53):
And I did not have time to go back and
trace the history of it. But Molly, can you please
let our fair listeners know what women don't have that
they need in order to anchor CBS, NBC or ABC
Evening News. The G word is garve TOAs And Uh,
(08:13):
this was the big question that came across when kay
Kirk was going to take over CBS. Katie Kirk had
done The Today Show and was known for being perky.
You know, someone who could wake you up at seven
am with you know you guys, little cup, a cup
of coffee, a little java. But they're saying that be
in that anchor seat, you've got to have gravy tasks.
You've got to have this ability to be solemn and
(08:34):
serious and to command authority. Uh. When new strikes, people
often talk about, like that Walter Cronkite moment where he
announced that JFK was dead, that that person you can
turn to when the world turns upside down. People are
saying that women don't have that authority yet, that they
do not have the gravy TOAs to anchor you know,
(08:56):
a nine eleven or you know, just this past week
we had the death of theo some of Bi Laton,
and they're saying that if people turn on the television,
you know, you think back in the old days, you
turn on the television. Peter Jenks was there and that
was reassuring. It was reassuring to me last week when
I saw Brian Williams talking about of Samon bin Laden.
But they're saying that people by and large are not
ready to have a woman tell them that we've gone
(09:18):
to war or you know, we've been attacked or something
like that, and that'll be and we can't answer the question.
But that's what tons of analysts tried to do. But see,
that's such bunk because in our last episode on women Reporters,
we pointed out how editors broadcast especially love to have
women out in the field in combat zones. A pretty woman,
(09:41):
a pretty woman in a flak jacket. Yeah, great for ratings. Yeah.
In fact, you know, kind of on a side note,
they did this really funny study about sexy anchors and uh,
Fox news. Um. It was this study where they had
a really beautiful anchor in a really tight uh you
jacket and a really low cut, like you know, top
(10:03):
reading the news versus one who was very buttoned up
and um, no skin showing or whatsoever. And they asked
the men, uh, recall questions about what they've just heard
on the news, and when the when the sexy anchor
read the news, the men remember none of it. Uh.
And when the plane Jane read the news, they were
all like, I remember everything she said. So yeah. I
(10:24):
mean a lot of people probably locally too. That's probably
why they've gotten you know, so so ingrained in our
in our news uh fabric is you know, pretty women
get viewers except the national news. Yeah. And one interesting
story we haven't talked about yet is Diane Sawyer, who
is often overshadowed by Katie Kirk. I don't understand why
(10:45):
that is. Way. It was great, um, and I know
I'm not the only one who feels that way, but
she she had an interesting story because she was um
looked over for the ABC chair and her Good Morning
America co host Earles Gibson got it instead. Yeah. But
you know, we found this really interesting New York Times
are well from two thousand two. Um, it was right
(11:06):
after they named Brian Williams to take over her Tom Brokaw,
And there are a few quotes in there from Diane
Sawyer where she kind of makes it sound like she
doesn't want the job. She's very demure, like you know.
It kind of brings up other issues about women in
the workplace and whether they bargained hard enough for that promotion,
because reading these quotes, it was sort of like, Oh,
you don't really want this, do you, Diane, or do
you like you know, I feel like she was someone
(11:28):
who just kind of waited her turn, whereas I think
Katie went forward and said, I'm going to break this barrier. So,
I mean, that's the question I have to ask in
any professions, are women going for it hard enough? But um,
I do think Diane's kind of an interesting case because
she didn't get the grabby chat question quite as much,
even though she too was coming from Good Morning America
a morning show. Uh. Now, speaking of breaking barriers, Molly,
(11:50):
we've been talking about a lot of white people. Yeah,
the news is very white. It's extremely why on broadcast news, well,
at least network wise. I think when you get down
to the local level, you get some more diversity. But um,
when we were going over all of this, I thought
it was it was almost comical to a point where
we were talking about, like where are all these women?
(12:11):
Because the question isn't necessarily where all these women? But
what's up with all these white people? It's a sea
of white people. And in terms of breaking barriers. The
one historical anecdote that I would like to share, um,
is about a woman named Melba Tolliver who in nine
seven was the first black person to anchor a news
(12:34):
program on television. And this was I believe it was
an ABC news show and she took over for a
lady named Marlene Sanders who was on a newsroom strike
during the time. They brought in Melba. And I just
love the story because the name of the news show
that she anchored was called News with a Woman's Touch.
(12:57):
Oh man, I can't believe that title is taken. I
could have made magic with that title. I try to
find it on YouTube. If anyone can find a clip
from News with a Woman's Touch, please send it our way,
Moms of the House of Works dot com, because I
really want to see it. But yeah, Melboe Tolliver, she's
breaking some barriers, all right. So you know, if we've
got diversity to some degree on the local scale, and
(13:19):
we definitely have women representing on the local scale, I
do think it'll be interesting to see what happens on
the national scale in like a generation, because one point
that was made in the two thousand two New York
Times piece is that when they're looking for these male
anchors to take on the national news, the men are
the ones who've been there for generation, for decades. You know,
women are a little bit behind in the broadcast news
because there was a big stereotype in like the seventies
(13:41):
and sixties that a woman just couldn't read the news,
and we overcame that where now they're on the local.
So it'll be interesting to see it happens in a generation.
But the question has to be asked, will it matter
in a generation? And not even in a generation? Well
right now, is it even mad Utter who is anchoring
(14:03):
our network news at night? Because here we go, kids,
here's here's the bad news, all right? The and this
is from Slate and I believe this is from this year.
This was on the news set that Kirk was leaving
CBS Evening News, the evening news programs that the three
commercial broadcast networks have lost. Here it is kids fifty
five point five percent of their audience since nineteen uh
(14:29):
so's gonna have it? Yeah? Who? I mean, who watches it?
With the internet? If you can get your news right there,
are you going to make an appointment to be in
front of your TV at six or six thirty or
seven or we just look on the internet. Well, and
it's not just the Internet, it's it's also I think
eyeballs have shifted from maybe the evening news test to
more primetime news magazines like the Rachel Maddow Show or
(14:53):
John Stewart or John Stewart comedy show. It's technically comedy,
but a lot of people consider their news source. So yeah,
it'll be interesting to see if these shows eventually die out.
But I mean, every time you talk about them dying out,
someone does show that clip of Walter Cronkite as this
epitome of what a country needs when something goes down.
So I think it'll be interesting to see because you know,
(15:15):
the question was raised if these shows will disappear um
or if they have lost their entire prestige as something
that is must must see viewing every day. You know,
doesn't matter if a woman gets the job or well
women finally you know, anchor all three seats, but no
one will care because we don't watch the evening news.
So it's something to watch, Yeah, to watch indeed, So
let us know what you think doesn't doesn't matter. Um,
(15:39):
would you rather hang out with Kenny Kirker Brian Williams.
I don't know, really anything, you know, it comes down
to person. I mean, you know, we make generalizations, but
it's not that I am a bad feminist. I just
prefer brann And and I don't think it's because he's
a man. It's because he's so funny. It's okay, just
get a little worked up in here. So in the meantime,
let's read a couple of letters. I have one hair
(16:04):
from Michael and it's on an oldie but goodie uh
episode on female superheroes and it's never too late to
send in a thought. On some of our episodes, people
sometimes start up their emails like, hope this isn't too late.
It's never too late about superheroes, and Michael writes the
one superheroine slash of villain you didn't talk about was
Marvel's Embra Frost or White Queen. She started out as
(16:25):
a villain and she used her looks and telepathy to
get head in life because she knew she had power
over males and she felt no qualms and using it
as such. She's very self assured, and she even managed
to work her way to the chap of an elite,
mostly male dominated club. Eventually she ended up getting another superpower.
She can turn her body into a flexible organic diamond.
Emma is nearly nearly always shown a self assured and
(16:46):
she really doesn't need a man, but she likes to
keep them around. Now, I'm not saying she should be
a role model for young girls because she's notorious savain
and she all just so dresses and lauentree and plauts
her body and receives criticisms because of it. But all
too often she's overlooked. But she's a interesting character with
a very deep struggle about being good. She often tries,
but every time she does, she stays with her evil demons.
(17:06):
And she's extremely fun because she has a very sharp
and often binding wit. And I just will say myself.
This is what Michael wrote. But I don't think that's
the first email we've we've read about Emma Frost. But
I would say that since that episode came out, she's
the number one lady cited in terms of the female
super Pow podcast. Today. Well, I've got an email here,
also from an older episode. This was on our female
(17:29):
screenwriters and playwrights and Oscar episodes, a lot of episodes actually.
So this is from Sasha and she is an aspiring
screenwriter moving up the ranks. She says that the lack
of representation of women in the industry, especially for kids,
really is appalling, and she shares a couple of anecdotes.
(17:49):
After college, I was interviewed for a job at a
production company that focuses on developing kids TV shows. I
was so excited because I'm really interested in all that
wonderful stuff. And in my interview, though, the head of
their development department laid it out on the table, no
one wants TV shows for girls. Girls don't watch shows
for girls, boys don't watch shows for for girls. The
(18:09):
channels that only only by shows that are either gender
neutral or for boys. He blamed it on young girls
watching shows above their age groups because they mature so early.
But I don't buy it. I think it's easier to
buy and sell shows for boys, and so they do that,
perpetuating disbelief that girls don't watch age oriented TV, which
is just ridiculous. And she also shares that I've had
(18:32):
two writing jobs where the producer asked to read one
of my scripts. While they both enjoyed my script and
thought it was real written, they both told me the
same thing. No one is going to want to buy
a script about a mom and a daughter and it's good,
but there are too many women in it. The script
is a comedy and has at fifty women men ratio
in terms of characters. Both the producers were men, And
(18:52):
it's tough hear in comments like that when you're first
starting out, and I have no doubt that some lady
writers came to that kind of pressure. No worries, though,
I'm going to keep using on ladies need a voice
and I'm going to write with it. And three cheers
for you, Sasha and all of our other aspiring professionals
both male and female, out in the audience. So if
you have any thoughts to send our way again. Our
(19:14):
email addresses mom stuff at how stuff works dot com.
We'd love for you to like us on Facebook and
follow us on Twitter. Our handle there is at mom
stuff podcast. And finally, why don't you read what we're
doing during the week on our blog It's stuff Mom
Never told You from how stuff works dot com. Be
(19:35):
sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from
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(19:56):
It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stump Mom never told you?
From House Step Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Molly and Molly. Today
(00:21):
is a very special day. The Day of recordments the dayners. Today.
We gotta wish happy birthday to a very special news anchor.
And I'm not talking about Silver Fox Anderson Cooper. I
see three six day. It's Brian Williams's birthday. Brian Williams.
I gotta say, is my favorite. I know you're supposed
to be objective and due hid your biases that I
(00:44):
want to hang out with Brian Williams. I just want
to like, drink a beer and do the Crossford with them,
is what I told Kristin Earlio and thirty Rock with him. Yeah,
I'll wait in the green room. Why does the Daily Show? Yeah,
I mean I just want to hang out. Let's go
get Chinese food Brian Williams. But what about what if
Katie Kirk was like, Hey, I'll hang out with you instead.
(01:04):
I make so much money, we can do lots of
things that money to people do. I mean, I wouldn't
turn down an opportunity like that, but I gotta say
Brian Wims is where it's at for me. And I've
kind of been grappling with that because today is the
second part of our Women in Journalism Spectacular, and today
we're talking about anchors and all the news about anchors,
(01:27):
and particularly in UH six pm, six at pm depending
on where you live UH national news time slot, all
the nieces about Katie KERRK. Yeah. I feel like someone there.
There reporters out there who are as signed to a
Katie Kirk beat any any change in any contract clause.
This woman has somehow makes it to the top of
(01:49):
the news feed and I find it fascinating. Um because
she broke a significant barrier. She became of the first
woman to solo host Yes UH the National News, as
opposed to Connie Chung, who did a duel hosting with
Peter Jennings. Walters also did co host YES from nine
to nine b walt b Well be Waltz, she co hosted,
(02:13):
but Katie was solo, flying solo, and if you remember
those months before she took the anchor chair, the speculation
was at a fever pitch. I mean, what is she
going to do with that? I don't want to overstate it, Kristen,
but it kind of remember reminded me of some royal
wedding coverage. It was like, what is she gonna wear?
Will be able to see her legs? Is she gonna
(02:33):
be as perky as she is on the Today shore?
Will she be more sober when she's reporting really sad news?
You know? Will she do interviews? Well? We will she
make pancakes? Yeah? It was crazy because people were just saying,
this is an iconic moment for women as a whole.
I didn't realize it was until the papers told me
that this woman, for the first time was taking on
(02:54):
a position that was very male, very white, and fairly old.
And you know, Katie Kirk, you know, related some of
the other people, not Brian Williams, of course, it was
much younger and other people who told the chair so was.
You know, she became the symbol that everyone had to
project everything onto. And now that the news has come
that she's stepping down, everyone's in it tizzy like what
(03:15):
does this mean for women? Sure, we've had Diane Sawyer
take the start and take the chair in the meantime.
But what does it mean that Katie Kurtt couldn't make
this work and that she was the third rated newscast
And what does it all mean from women? And who's
taking over? A man? Scott Scott Pelleys. How you say
his last name, Pelly? I think so, um, yeah, he's
he's taking over and and a fine gent at that.
(03:35):
Nothing nothing Scotty. But I just want to know why
we get so in in such a tizzy, in such
a whirligig about who's sitting at the news desk at NBC,
ABC and CBS. Because when it comes to local news stations,
the question we posted with this podcast episode is where
(03:56):
the women anchors? Answer? Everywhere? Yeah, they're everywhere where except
those three chairs, and now they were in two of
them probably a long time. But yeah, in Atlanta, I
mean we've got Monica Kaufman, Javita More, they're just women
coming out the wazoo. I grew up with a female
news anchor like this wouldn't have if you had had
me list off the you know, top five professions I
could think of where women were always there local news reporter,
(04:17):
news anchor and and so yeah, and and that's what
The Washington Post highlighted in a two thousand six pieces
that every audition tape that network managers get for on
air talent, it's all women. It's a lot of ladies.
And I got some more stats to throw at you.
Here we go where the women anchors locally, they're there
(04:38):
because fifty seven percent of the positions UM in nationwide survey,
it's all women. Women account for more than half of
TV reporters, half of middle managers and executive producers, news producers,
and news writers. Now when we come to news directors,
then we get a little more male skewed. But it's
(05:00):
a lot of gals out there. And it might be
because two thirds of the bachelor's degrees in journalism and
mass com are going to the ladies well. And it
also might be, according to The Washington Post, that news
anchor is not the um, you know, landmark job that
it used to be. UM. If you're local, you may
not be paid very much. People are saying thousand dollars,
(05:21):
people are saying. The men are just kind of saying
that this is not the career path to choose. There
are better and more lucrative ways to make money in journalism.
But and that, and that's try on the local thing.
I mean maybe that's why the local men are opting out.
But on the national scale, it's just you can't get
away from these big three seats and and why women
(05:42):
are in them are not in them. Yeah, And obviously,
since we talked about money the main networks, obviously we'll
bring you a lot more cash. For instance, Mss Barbara
Walters the Waltz made broadcast history in nineteen seventy six
when she inked a million dollar deal with ABC. And
you know, to bring up Barbara Walters, you still see
(06:03):
Barbara Walters everywhere on television. She's on the view, she sewenty.
People might be confused about why this is an issue
because if you watch you know, sixty minutes, you watch
um MSNBC, Good Morning Fox or a morning show, Yeah,
you see women everywhere. There's always a co host whose
female or UM they anchor their own shows like the
Rachel Matt aw Show. UM And some people are like, oh,
(06:26):
you see plenty of women reading the news, but people
keep separating out this thirty minute national news slot. So yeah,
in terms of like news magazine's morning shows, and those
things make more money for the networks than the national
news do. In terms of those, I think women are
still representable and making some pretty cool strides. There was
a good article by Rebecca Tracer about how the two
thousand and eight election in which we had Hillary Clinton
(06:48):
and Sarah Palin really allowed women to shine because, um,
you know, sometimes they talk about how when Charlie Gibson
interviewed Sarah Palin, for example, it came across as very
condescending and male bullying a woman, whereas when it was
Katie Kirk, they're saying that, you know, while the outcome
may not have been very good for Sarah Palin, that
was the famous um what newspaper do you read interview? Um,
(07:10):
you know it didn't. It came across as two women
talking and sparring, as opposed to like a sexist battle.
So saying that, you know, having women in the election
gave these female replayers a chance to shine on television,
Or when Campbell Brown said, hey, we need to stop
talking about what Hillary Clinton Sarah Palin are wearing, because
we're not talking about how much you know Barack Obama's suits,
(07:32):
got right. But this issue with women in the anchor
seat in the networks not. We We've answered a question
of where they are, and they're all in the local
seats and that seems a okay. But in the network seats,
this G word comes up over and over and over again.
(07:53):
And I did not have time to go back and
trace the history of it. But Molly, can you please
let our fair listeners know what women don't have that
they need in order to anchor CBS, NBC or ABC
Evening News. The G word is garve TOAs And Uh,
(08:13):
this was the big question that came across when kay
Kirk was going to take over CBS. Katie Kirk had
done The Today Show and was known for being perky.
You know, someone who could wake you up at seven
am with you know you guys, little cup, a cup
of coffee, a little java. But they're saying that be
in that anchor seat, you've got to have gravy tasks.
You've got to have this ability to be solemn and
(08:34):
serious and to command authority. Uh. When new strikes, people
often talk about, like that Walter Cronkite moment where he
announced that JFK was dead, that that person you can
turn to when the world turns upside down. People are
saying that women don't have that authority yet, that they
do not have the gravy TOAs to anchor you know,
(08:56):
a nine eleven or you know, just this past week
we had the death of theo some of Bi Laton,
and they're saying that if people turn on the television,
you know, you think back in the old days, you
turn on the television. Peter Jenks was there and that
was reassuring. It was reassuring to me last week when
I saw Brian Williams talking about of Samon bin Laden.
But they're saying that people by and large are not
ready to have a woman tell them that we've gone
(09:18):
to war or you know, we've been attacked or something
like that, and that'll be and we can't answer the question.
But that's what tons of analysts tried to do. But see,
that's such bunk because in our last episode on women Reporters,
we pointed out how editors broadcast especially love to have
women out in the field in combat zones. A pretty woman,
(09:41):
a pretty woman in a flak jacket. Yeah, great for ratings. Yeah.
In fact, you know, kind of on a side note,
they did this really funny study about sexy anchors and uh,
Fox news. Um. It was this study where they had
a really beautiful anchor in a really tight uh you
jacket and a really low cut, like you know, top
(10:03):
reading the news versus one who was very buttoned up
and um, no skin showing or whatsoever. And they asked
the men, uh, recall questions about what they've just heard
on the news, and when the when the sexy anchor
read the news, the men remember none of it. Uh.
And when the plane Jane read the news, they were
all like, I remember everything she said. So yeah. I
(10:24):
mean a lot of people probably locally too. That's probably
why they've gotten you know, so so ingrained in our
in our news uh fabric is you know, pretty women
get viewers except the national news. Yeah. And one interesting
story we haven't talked about yet is Diane Sawyer, who
is often overshadowed by Katie Kirk. I don't understand why
(10:45):
that is. Way. It was great, um, and I know
I'm not the only one who feels that way, but
she she had an interesting story because she was um
looked over for the ABC chair and her Good Morning
America co host Earles Gibson got it instead. Yeah. But
you know, we found this really interesting New York Times
are well from two thousand two. Um, it was right
(11:06):
after they named Brian Williams to take over her Tom Brokaw,
And there are a few quotes in there from Diane
Sawyer where she kind of makes it sound like she
doesn't want the job. She's very demure, like you know.
It kind of brings up other issues about women in
the workplace and whether they bargained hard enough for that promotion,
because reading these quotes, it was sort of like, Oh,
you don't really want this, do you, Diane, or do
you like you know, I feel like she was someone
(11:28):
who just kind of waited her turn, whereas I think
Katie went forward and said, I'm going to break this barrier. So,
I mean, that's the question I have to ask in
any professions, are women going for it hard enough? But um,
I do think Diane's kind of an interesting case because
she didn't get the grabby chat question quite as much,
even though she too was coming from Good Morning America
a morning show. Uh. Now, speaking of breaking barriers, Molly,
(11:50):
we've been talking about a lot of white people. Yeah,
the news is very white. It's extremely why on broadcast news, well,
at least network wise. I think when you get down
to the local level, you get some more diversity. But um,
when we were going over all of this, I thought
it was it was almost comical to a point where
we were talking about, like where are all these women?
(12:11):
Because the question isn't necessarily where all these women? But
what's up with all these white people? It's a sea
of white people. And in terms of breaking barriers. The
one historical anecdote that I would like to share, um,
is about a woman named Melba Tolliver who in nine
seven was the first black person to anchor a news
(12:34):
program on television. And this was I believe it was
an ABC news show and she took over for a
lady named Marlene Sanders who was on a newsroom strike
during the time. They brought in Melba. And I just
love the story because the name of the news show
that she anchored was called News with a Woman's Touch.
(12:57):
Oh man, I can't believe that title is taken. I
could have made magic with that title. I try to
find it on YouTube. If anyone can find a clip
from News with a Woman's Touch, please send it our way,
Moms of the House of Works dot com, because I
really want to see it. But yeah, Melboe Tolliver, she's
breaking some barriers, all right. So you know, if we've
got diversity to some degree on the local scale, and
(13:19):
we definitely have women representing on the local scale, I
do think it'll be interesting to see what happens on
the national scale in like a generation, because one point
that was made in the two thousand two New York
Times piece is that when they're looking for these male
anchors to take on the national news, the men are
the ones who've been there for generation, for decades. You know,
women are a little bit behind in the broadcast news
because there was a big stereotype in like the seventies
(13:41):
and sixties that a woman just couldn't read the news,
and we overcame that where now they're on the local.
So it'll be interesting to see it happens in a generation.
But the question has to be asked, will it matter
in a generation? And not even in a generation? Well
right now, is it even mad Utter who is anchoring
(14:03):
our network news at night? Because here we go, kids,
here's here's the bad news, all right? The and this
is from Slate and I believe this is from this year.
This was on the news set that Kirk was leaving
CBS Evening News, the evening news programs that the three
commercial broadcast networks have lost. Here it is kids fifty
five point five percent of their audience since nineteen uh
(14:29):
so's gonna have it? Yeah? Who? I mean, who watches it?
With the internet? If you can get your news right there,
are you going to make an appointment to be in
front of your TV at six or six thirty or
seven or we just look on the internet. Well, and
it's not just the Internet, it's it's also I think
eyeballs have shifted from maybe the evening news test to
more primetime news magazines like the Rachel Maddow Show or
(14:53):
John Stewart or John Stewart comedy show. It's technically comedy,
but a lot of people consider their news source. So yeah,
it'll be interesting to see if these shows eventually die out.
But I mean, every time you talk about them dying out,
someone does show that clip of Walter Cronkite as this
epitome of what a country needs when something goes down.
So I think it'll be interesting to see because you know,
(15:15):
the question was raised if these shows will disappear um
or if they have lost their entire prestige as something
that is must must see viewing every day. You know,
doesn't matter if a woman gets the job or well
women finally you know, anchor all three seats, but no
one will care because we don't watch the evening news.
So it's something to watch, Yeah, to watch indeed, So
let us know what you think doesn't doesn't matter. Um,
(15:39):
would you rather hang out with Kenny Kirker Brian Williams.
I don't know, really anything, you know, it comes down
to person. I mean, you know, we make generalizations, but
it's not that I am a bad feminist. I just
prefer brann And and I don't think it's because he's
a man. It's because he's so funny. It's okay, just
get a little worked up in here. So in the meantime,
let's read a couple of letters. I have one hair
(16:04):
from Michael and it's on an oldie but goodie uh
episode on female superheroes and it's never too late to
send in a thought. On some of our episodes, people
sometimes start up their emails like, hope this isn't too late.
It's never too late about superheroes, and Michael writes the
one superheroine slash of villain you didn't talk about was
Marvel's Embra Frost or White Queen. She started out as
(16:25):
a villain and she used her looks and telepathy to
get head in life because she knew she had power
over males and she felt no qualms and using it
as such. She's very self assured, and she even managed
to work her way to the chap of an elite,
mostly male dominated club. Eventually she ended up getting another superpower.
She can turn her body into a flexible organic diamond.
Emma is nearly nearly always shown a self assured and
(16:46):
she really doesn't need a man, but she likes to
keep them around. Now, I'm not saying she should be
a role model for young girls because she's notorious savain
and she all just so dresses and lauentree and plauts
her body and receives criticisms because of it. But all
too often she's overlooked. But she's a interesting character with
a very deep struggle about being good. She often tries,
but every time she does, she stays with her evil demons.
(17:06):
And she's extremely fun because she has a very sharp
and often binding wit. And I just will say myself.
This is what Michael wrote. But I don't think that's
the first email we've we've read about Emma Frost. But
I would say that since that episode came out, she's
the number one lady cited in terms of the female
super Pow podcast. Today. Well, I've got an email here,
also from an older episode. This was on our female
(17:29):
screenwriters and playwrights and Oscar episodes, a lot of episodes actually.
So this is from Sasha and she is an aspiring
screenwriter moving up the ranks. She says that the lack
of representation of women in the industry, especially for kids,
really is appalling, and she shares a couple of anecdotes.
(17:49):
After college, I was interviewed for a job at a
production company that focuses on developing kids TV shows. I
was so excited because I'm really interested in all that
wonderful stuff. And in my interview, though, the head of
their development department laid it out on the table, no
one wants TV shows for girls. Girls don't watch shows
for girls, boys don't watch shows for for girls. The
(18:09):
channels that only only by shows that are either gender
neutral or for boys. He blamed it on young girls
watching shows above their age groups because they mature so early.
But I don't buy it. I think it's easier to
buy and sell shows for boys, and so they do that,
perpetuating disbelief that girls don't watch age oriented TV, which
is just ridiculous. And she also shares that I've had
(18:32):
two writing jobs where the producer asked to read one
of my scripts. While they both enjoyed my script and
thought it was real written, they both told me the
same thing. No one is going to want to buy
a script about a mom and a daughter and it's good,
but there are too many women in it. The script
is a comedy and has at fifty women men ratio
in terms of characters. Both the producers were men, And
(18:52):
it's tough hear in comments like that when you're first
starting out, and I have no doubt that some lady
writers came to that kind of pressure. No worries, though,
I'm going to keep using on ladies need a voice
and I'm going to write with it. And three cheers
for you, Sasha and all of our other aspiring professionals
both male and female, out in the audience. So if
you have any thoughts to send our way again. Our
(19:14):
email addresses mom stuff at how stuff works dot com.
We'd love for you to like us on Facebook and
follow us on Twitter. Our handle there is at mom
stuff podcast. And finally, why don't you read what we're
doing during the week on our blog It's stuff Mom
Never told You from how stuff works dot com. Be
(19:35):
sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from
the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore
the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The How
Stuff Works iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on iTunes,
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