August 4, 2010 • 24 mins
Rapes kits are used to collect forensic evidence from rape victims. In this episode, Molly and Cristen discuss the contents of rape kits, rape kit testing, SANE programs and the medical professionals who administer rape kit exams and collect evidence.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff Mom Never told you?
From housetop works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Kristen, I'm Molly. Today Molly and I are going
(00:21):
to do something we really I don't think we've ever
done before UM, which is offer up a little warning
before we get into this podcast, which is about rape
kits UM and rape kits are for anyone who doesn't know,
rape kits are the medical exams that rape victims will
get UM after they are sexually assaulted UM, which you
(00:43):
meant to collect DNA evidence against the rapist. And while
it's not going to be you know, it's not adult content,
it's not going to be excessively graphic, but it is
rape is not an easy topic to discuss. So we
just wanted to kind of provide a little bit of
a trigger warning for you guys if if this is
(01:05):
not going to be something that's going to be easy
for UM for you to listen to, but we did
want to talk about it today because I think it's
really important for both men and women to be aware
of what exactly happens can happen at least um, it
doesn't have to um happen after someone is sexually assaulted
(01:27):
in what actually goes into rape kits, and also why
we need to as a general public be more aware
of how they're processed or in a lot of cases,
not being processed. And a few more notes about terminology
before we get underway. Uh, this is coming from the
(01:48):
same Development operation guide we're going to talk about saying
a little later, but it stands for Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner,
and so we're reading a little bit about their program,
and they had a few clarifications on terminology which are
also going to be sort of the the guidelines for
us today. We probably will say she in relation to
rape victims more often than he, but we are aware
(02:09):
that there are men who are raped. The legal definitions
of rape, sexual assault, and abuse vary from state to state,
and so we might be using rape or sexual assault interchangeably, um,
but we do know that those are different. And another
distinction in terminology that this guide made was that between
victim and survivor. And we'll probably say a victim because
(02:30):
we're dealing with rape kits and the immediate aftermath of
UM a rape and you know, this guide made a
really good point that that journey to becoming a survivor
takes later. It's probably takes time. It's not going to
be accomplished within the hour that you're you know, waiting
for a rape kit. So those are just a few
notes on vocabulary to clear up this portion the podcast,
(02:53):
and now we'll get into what is actually in a
rape kit. Yeah, And the reason why I felt like
this was really important for us to talk about is
because while you know, we hear I think it's pretty
common knowledge that if if you're raped, you then go
to you know, go to the hospital and you get
a rape kit. But I don't know that a lot
of people and myself included, are aware of what exactly
(03:17):
is involved in UM in a rape kit. And because
it actually comes in, I mean it is a packet
of things that are you know, sealed off. And there
was UM actually a photo essay which sounds strange, but
UM there was a photo essay on the from the
Washington City Paper just documenting, you know, kind of taking
(03:37):
apart the different parts of UM of a rape kit.
And I don't know it really kind of it brings
it all home once once you realize the amount of
kind of detail that that goes into all of this.
So what is in a rape kit? UM? A lot
of times, UH you will have just basic instructions for
(04:02):
UM what to do. They'll have separate envelopes for different
types of samples. For instance, you'll usually have you know,
a saliva sample that will be taken. They'll take samples
also from uh, your inner labia. UM, they will take
pubic hare samples. So there are bags and sheets for
collecting the evidence. Obviously, there are swabs. There's always the
(04:24):
comb in there, and that comb is for your pubic care. UM.
They're also envelopes of course to put the evidence in
their blood collection devices and then documentation forms. So basically
what what happens is that you know, all these swabs
and all these samples are taken to try and find
any trace of DNA that the rape is left behind
(04:47):
on the body. Basically, at this point, the woman's body
is a crime scene because the evidence of the crime
is on her, and so it's a matter of going
through and collecting it and putting it into these envelopes
so that it can m b used, so that can
be tested and used in court if necessary to prove
the crime happened. And UM, this is coming from the
(05:08):
Rape Abuse and Incest National Network, which UM has a
lot of resources on its website. UH. And they point
out that, you know, this is a medical for forensic
exam that might involve a head to toe physical exam,
including obviously the genital area, and that can include anything
from you know, just collecting blood, urine, hair and UM,
(05:30):
body fluid samples, photo documentation, UM, which I didn't you know,
kind of didn't even occur to me before I read this,
collection of clothing, collection of any kind of physical evidence
that might have transferred onto the victim from the rape scene.
And UH. And that's why UH people will tell you
(05:51):
to you know, if you're sexually assaulted, if possible, you know,
don't take a shower, don't go to the bathroom if
you have to do, not change your clothes because, as
you said, Molly, though, after a sexual assault happens, the
victim's body is the crime scene. And you want to
if you're going to go and get a rape kit,
because it's again it's a woman's choice whether or not
to go get the rape kit. UM. You want to
(06:14):
preserve that evidence as much as possible. Now, Kristen, you
brought up the issue of choice, and I think one
interesting I think I learned about rape kits in this
research is that you can go have the examination done
and still not press charges or make a case against
the abuser if you don't want to. A lot of
women don't come forward because they're scared of repercussions and uh,
(06:35):
they may not want to have the police involved. What
they've done thanks to the Violence Against Women Act, is
to make it so you can still have the rape
kit completed, that medical examination, and you don't have to
turn that evidence over to the police if you don't
want to. UM, And you can also remain completely anonymous.
They will assign you a number instead of using your name,
and that's referred to as a Jane Doe rape kit.
(06:58):
And obviously there's also going to be some ste testing,
pregnancy tests, You're gonna have an HIV test down the line. Um,
that's all separate, so you still, you know, people should
still get themselves checked out after a rape. This is
sort of what you can do. In addition, if you
want the evidence documented, right, UM, And then I think
we should also bring up the point that UM also,
(07:20):
thanks to the Violence Against Women Act UH, states have
to ensure that victims have access to rape kits free
of charge or with a full reimbursement because there have
been you know, some UH controversies about states possibly making
UM rape victims pay for rape kits, but that is
(07:43):
completely illegal. Yeah, I mean, it's it's like asking a
person whose family member has been murdered to pay for
the fingerprints. And at the same time too, the Violent
skinst Women Act is also built in some of that
protection for victims who might not want to go to
the police. They are allowed to have more time to
(08:05):
decide whether or not to pursue a case, whether or
not they want to go forward UM to UH to
the police and pursue, you know, some kind of criminal conviction.
And depending on where the person is, there will be
different time periods for when you know you can you
have to make that decision about whether you're going to
pursue a case the statutor limitations. So now we're gonna
talk a little bit about the same program sexual Assault
(08:28):
Nurse Examiner, and how that person can assist you through
the rape kit process. Because this program developed in the
nineteen seventies because there are a few issues with how
rape victims were being treated when they came into emergency
rooms for that collection of evidence. For one thing, if
the emergency room was busy, they were out in public
(08:49):
in a waiting room, perhaps not being seen because there
were things like gunshot wounds and the other uh you know,
injuries like that coming in and maybe while you can't
see the injury that takes place after rape, it's no
less severe. So they wanted to get the victims back
there faster, especially because you, like Kristen said, you can't eat, drink,
your name, change your clothes. Well your advised, yeah, you're
(09:11):
advised not to. And because it is a criminal investigation,
sometimes the doctors and nurses weren't properly trained and how
to do that investigation. You know, the pictures we saw
of the rape kid did show how it was very
sort of intuitive what you were supposed to do next
and how you would take the the samples. But the
doctors and nurses you know, may not have had the
best training on how to use uh that material. And
(09:34):
they also were concerned because rape victims emotional needs were
all too often overlooked because you know, if you've got
the wrong person who makes the wrong crack. It's just,
you know, it's devastating if you've got someone who is
you know, trying to ask you questions and it feels invasive,
it feels like they're blaming you. That was happening. So
that was UM sort of what set the same program
(09:56):
into motion. Yeah, And the first same program was established
in this Tennessee in nineteen seventy six, and the second
one that happened in Minneapolis in nineteen seventy seven. And
it wasn't until nineteen ninety one when the Journal of
Emergency Nursing published the first list of sane programs, with
only twenty programs listed. To me, it's baffling that in
(10:19):
nine Molly, we only had twenty programs twenty same programs
in the US, and five years later that number had
grown to eighty six and today there are more. However, UM,
sane programs are in battle because it's not uh, it's
not very well funded. UM. Obviously, becoming a sexual assault
(10:39):
nurse examiner requires extra training and UM it's also probably
one of the hardest jobs that someone could select. But
it's so these women are so important and they are
so needed because without them, you know, the the issue
of you know, women going and getting rape kids would
(11:01):
just be would be so much harder and uh for
for prosecuting UM alleged rapists. So to clarify, once a
sexual assault nurse examiners on the scene, she is responsible
for conducting that evidence gathering process with the rape kit.
She'll do the STD prevention test, she'll evaluate the rest
for pregnancy UM, and she'll also be a point person
(11:23):
if you need referrals for additional support or care. The
person who can help you figure out where you're gonna
sleep that night, and the person who can help you
decide if you do want to report it to the police. Uh,
that person, the saying, will help you kind of uh
explore all your options about doing that and service a
support person if you decide that you do want to report.
(11:44):
Now there are places where you have to places and
cases where you have to where there's mandatory reporting. So
if you do choose to report UM, the rape kit
is used as evidence in UM in a rape trial.
But here's the big thing. Here's the big problem with
rape kits, and which is why one of the big
(12:05):
reasons why Molly and I wanted to talk about today
because there's been a lot of controversy over whether or
not UM or over what happens to that rape kit
between the time you know, a victim goes to the
hospital and has it performed and all the evidence is
collected and UM the kit and whether or not it
is ever even processed because the reason why it needs
(12:27):
to be processed is for DNA evidence. But a report
from Human Rights Watch suggests that eight percent of rape
kits may have never been examined UM. And this is
in the state of Illinois, Okay, but this has been
a huge problem, particularly in l a um and New
(12:47):
York has kind of been heralded as the you know,
the standard for actually processing rape kits, but in so
many large metropolitan areas there is a huge backlog of
rape kits that are simply never processed. Right. It costs
about a thousand dollars to process one rape kit because
you've got the people who do the work, the processing
(13:08):
fees in the lab, and these programs are underfunded. And
you know, this article about the Illinois situation is data
July seven, two thou ten, so it's this month. And
the larger issue is that you know, you can use
that evidence to catch rapists and to punish them. And
now without that extra step, some some rapists are still
(13:30):
out there waiting to attack again. And just to give
you some numbers, in the case of Los Angeles, they
have more than two thousand rape kits and the pipeline
waiting testing UM and they are struggling to complete results
within a year after the request is made. And nationwide
crime lab saw their DNA testing backlog double from the
beginning to the end of two thousand five, according to
(13:54):
report from the Census of Publicly funded Crime Laboratories. UM. So,
to me, this is very disturbing because we have all
of these women who are going in and getting rape
kits after attacks and yet um, all of that, you know,
that very invasive process is kind of feutile in a
way if the DNA evidence is never even processed. There
(14:16):
was an article in the New York Times, and not
to be fearmongering about this, but I think this anecdote
UM from the New York Times is really telling because
there was a detective with the l a p D.
Who collected a rape kit from a forty three year
old legal secretary who was raped in her home as
her son slept in the other room, and um, the
(14:39):
just the way the rape happened, the detective felt like
this was a serial rapist, and so in an attempt
to track this person down, he wanted to get this
rape kit UM process as quickly as possible. So he
drove the department's crime lab, but was told to expect
a processing delay of more than a year. Then he
(14:59):
drives three fifty miles north to the States DNA testing
lab and same Sacramento, but the backlog prevented testing for
four months, and during that time, the rapists, the same rapists,
broken to the homes of a pregnant woman a seventeen
year old girl and sexually assaulted both of them. So
it's like, you know, this is so important for people
to be aware of the fact that because of um
(15:21):
shoddy federal funding and also a breakdown on state and
county level, UM, these rape kits are not not being
reported and crimes are happening even more as a result
of that. Now you mentioned the federal funding, Kryst, and
let me explain a little bit about that. The government
gives cities and states grants through their local law enforcement
agencies to process the rape kits. UM. They don't require
(15:46):
states to report their efforts. So that's one problem is
that there's sort of a lack of accountability. But also
there's a stipulation on the funds that UM the funds
can't be used to hire permanent staff. So, you know,
because when I was reading this, I was like, wow,
you know, if people want to find jobs, it sounds
like these testing centers really need people who have experience
in this. But you know, they can't bring people on
(16:08):
full time to do the strape kit. So that's that's
that is disturbing. But there are New York legislators who
are attempting to, uh to fix those rules. There's legislation
being put on the floor right now, right And I also,
I mean, then that's going on the federal level, and
I also point out that there is definitely a breakdown
as that money trickles through the system. For instance, then
York Times also reported that UM in Los Angeles, the
(16:33):
police department has spent less than half of a four
point four million dollars in federal money it received from
two thousand four to two thousand eight UM to uh,
you know, to just to support these uh these saying
and rape kit UM programs, So you know, even in
cases where they are getting money, you know they're not UM,
(16:55):
whether they're just hamstrung or not. UH, it's not being
it's not being used properly. So that is something that
you can do if you have an interest in UH
this issue and the prevention and of rape is to
work with local law enforcement, local politicians to ensure that
funding for rape kits and they're processing is used appropriately
(17:17):
UM not subject to cuts. And another thing that is
subject to cuts you mentioned this earlier, Kristen, is the
same program we talked about what a hard position it is,
but even people who choose to become sexual assault nurse
examiners are often thwarted because the funding make it cut
or because of these recent Supreme Court cases that are
(17:38):
limiting UH says abilities to testify in court. Right because
obviously the primary duty of a sexual assault nurse examiner
is to collect that evidence UM to kind of guide
sexual assault and rape victims UM through that that process
immediately following the incident. But at the same time, it's
(18:02):
also their role to UM serve as expert testimony on
anatomy and tissue UH in rape trials However, a recent
UM Supreme Court ruling in the case of Crawford versus
Washington UM has affected a saint's ability to repeat hearsay
statements made to her by patients UM who might not
(18:25):
be able to testify on their own. And a lot
of these nurse examiners are very concerned about the legal
ramifications of Crawford view Washington because that might eliminate UM
or I guess nullify their testimony, which could be instrumental
in UM bringing UH these criminals to justice. Right, as
(18:49):
Kristen said, if you make a statement outside of court
that can be used is hearsay, but statements record and
medical records are admissible. UM. But what happens here is
sort of a breakdown. If you've got a victim who's
telling her story to the saying that's gonna be a
mix of the medical stuff and also just the personal stuff,
and they're saying that, you know, doctors are kind of
(19:11):
exempt from this hearsay thing because people don't lie to
their doctors, And there's this assumption that people will lie
to a saying or that that um, you know, a
woman's story shouldn't be you know, thought of as evidence.
According to the saying, and you know, it's kind of
disturbing that UM, one scene was testifying that the injuries
suffered by the woman were you know, evidence of rape,
(19:35):
and that was thrown out because the jury was the
jury's job to make that decision of whether those injuries
were a sign of rape. So it's it's been very
interesting to see these court cases and quite frustrating, I think,
because it's almost like the saying is being punished for
serving in that close confident role. UM they are a
medical professional. But also you know, if if you've just
(19:59):
been attacked, you want to talk about it, and they're
saying basically that that talking about it almost disqualifies a
saying from further testimony. And to me, that's even more
troubling because first of all, you know, it's rapists such
a difficult UM crime to talk about, even from a
statistics perspective, because assessing the actual incidents rate is pretty
(20:22):
much impossible because it goes so unreported, and it's also
one of the least prosecuted crimes. UH. This UH same
Development and Operation Guide points out that only four percent
of rapists go to jail either as a result of
a guilty flee or guilty verdicts UM. So just hindering
(20:45):
that that legal process even more by limiting what UM
what saints can and can't say in court, I think
is UM is very troubling. Right. So again, it's something
you can keep your eye on on a local level.
If you're community has the same program, you can look
for ways to support that. So again, while you know,
(21:05):
talking about rape kits is not the lightest conversation UM
that we could bring up, I do think it's incredibly
important because as women and as men, I think it's
good to be armed with this kind of information because
hopefully none of our listeners out there will ever have
to go through the process of getting a rape kit.
(21:27):
But and why, But I think it's important to know
what goes into it and all of the issues surrounding it,
because it is a very intensive process to go through,
especially when it is immediately following um, you know, very
horrifying crime committed on your body. UM. So I think
it's great too and necessary for us to arm ourselves
(21:48):
with this kind of information to be better supports for
victims and survivors out there. And I just want to
give a shout out to the National Sexual Hotline UM
which is one eight six five six HOPE and also
the Rape and Incest National Networks website that has a
(22:10):
lot of good resources. If UM, you know, if this
is something that you want to learn more about, UM,
if you have been sexually assaulted, if you know you
have a friend or someone you're in a relationship with
who has been sexually assaulted and you don't know what
to do, there's so many resources out there UM that
you can that you can track down. So that's it,
(22:34):
all right, Well, let's do a little listener, ma'n before
I wrap it up. We've got one from Annie in
Hong Kong, and she writes that my grandmother had her
feet bound when she was a child for two years
and the words my mom, she rebelled stopped finding it
at an unknown age. My grandma then somehow walked with
her husband and her mongolia and promptly gave birth to
(22:56):
six children. However, if you asked her if she ever
had her foot bound, she would say, oh, no, no no.
But if you ask any of her children her husband,
the answer be a firm yes. Even though she's a bell,
she still favors small feet and hands on her girls.
Last week when I visit her, which I do every year,
she held my hands and bit every finger with her
aby something year old teeth. It's a sign of affection.
She does it every time I visit. She said that
(23:18):
it's good that I don't have my mom's monkey feet
and long, bony monkey like hands. And it's not only her.
My family still sees having small feet and hands proferably plump,
as being blessed, as would mean that the possessor wouldn't
have had such a hard life. That is how my
hands and feet become a topic of discussion whenever we
have family gatherings. So we hope to hear from you
as well. Email addresses mom stuff at how stuff works
(23:41):
dot com. You can follow us on Twitter and we
would be so grateful to you if you would like
us on Facebook, and as always, you can check out
our blog during the week. You can find it at
how stuff works dot com. For more, are on this
and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works
(24:03):
dot com. Want more how stuff works, check out our
blogs on the house stuff works dot com home page.
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff Mom Never told you?
From housetop works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Kristen, I'm Molly. Today Molly and I are going
(00:21):
to do something we really I don't think we've ever
done before UM, which is offer up a little warning
before we get into this podcast, which is about rape
kits UM and rape kits are for anyone who doesn't know,
rape kits are the medical exams that rape victims will
get UM after they are sexually assaulted UM, which you
(00:43):
meant to collect DNA evidence against the rapist. And while
it's not going to be you know, it's not adult content,
it's not going to be excessively graphic, but it is
rape is not an easy topic to discuss. So we
just wanted to kind of provide a little bit of
a trigger warning for you guys if if this is
(01:05):
not going to be something that's going to be easy
for UM for you to listen to, but we did
want to talk about it today because I think it's
really important for both men and women to be aware
of what exactly happens can happen at least um, it
doesn't have to um happen after someone is sexually assaulted
(01:27):
in what actually goes into rape kits, and also why
we need to as a general public be more aware
of how they're processed or in a lot of cases,
not being processed. And a few more notes about terminology
before we get underway. Uh, this is coming from the
(01:48):
same Development operation guide we're going to talk about saying
a little later, but it stands for Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner,
and so we're reading a little bit about their program,
and they had a few clarifications on terminology which are
also going to be sort of the the guidelines for
us today. We probably will say she in relation to
rape victims more often than he, but we are aware
(02:09):
that there are men who are raped. The legal definitions
of rape, sexual assault, and abuse vary from state to state,
and so we might be using rape or sexual assault interchangeably, um,
but we do know that those are different. And another
distinction in terminology that this guide made was that between
victim and survivor. And we'll probably say a victim because
(02:30):
we're dealing with rape kits and the immediate aftermath of
UM a rape and you know, this guide made a
really good point that that journey to becoming a survivor
takes later. It's probably takes time. It's not going to
be accomplished within the hour that you're you know, waiting
for a rape kit. So those are just a few
notes on vocabulary to clear up this portion the podcast,
(02:53):
and now we'll get into what is actually in a
rape kit. Yeah, And the reason why I felt like
this was really important for us to talk about is
because while you know, we hear I think it's pretty
common knowledge that if if you're raped, you then go
to you know, go to the hospital and you get
a rape kit. But I don't know that a lot
of people and myself included, are aware of what exactly
(03:17):
is involved in UM in a rape kit. And because
it actually comes in, I mean it is a packet
of things that are you know, sealed off. And there
was UM actually a photo essay which sounds strange, but
UM there was a photo essay on the from the
Washington City Paper just documenting, you know, kind of taking
(03:37):
apart the different parts of UM of a rape kit.
And I don't know it really kind of it brings
it all home once once you realize the amount of
kind of detail that that goes into all of this.
So what is in a rape kit? UM? A lot
of times, UH you will have just basic instructions for
(04:02):
UM what to do. They'll have separate envelopes for different
types of samples. For instance, you'll usually have you know,
a saliva sample that will be taken. They'll take samples
also from uh, your inner labia. UM, they will take
pubic hare samples. So there are bags and sheets for
collecting the evidence. Obviously, there are swabs. There's always the
(04:24):
comb in there, and that comb is for your pubic care. UM.
They're also envelopes of course to put the evidence in
their blood collection devices and then documentation forms. So basically
what what happens is that you know, all these swabs
and all these samples are taken to try and find
any trace of DNA that the rape is left behind
(04:47):
on the body. Basically, at this point, the woman's body
is a crime scene because the evidence of the crime
is on her, and so it's a matter of going
through and collecting it and putting it into these envelopes
so that it can m b used, so that can
be tested and used in court if necessary to prove
the crime happened. And UM, this is coming from the
(05:08):
Rape Abuse and Incest National Network, which UM has a
lot of resources on its website. UH. And they point
out that, you know, this is a medical for forensic
exam that might involve a head to toe physical exam,
including obviously the genital area, and that can include anything
from you know, just collecting blood, urine, hair and UM,
(05:30):
body fluid samples, photo documentation, UM, which I didn't you know,
kind of didn't even occur to me before I read this,
collection of clothing, collection of any kind of physical evidence
that might have transferred onto the victim from the rape scene.
And UH. And that's why UH people will tell you
(05:51):
to you know, if you're sexually assaulted, if possible, you know,
don't take a shower, don't go to the bathroom if
you have to do, not change your clothes because, as
you said, Molly, though, after a sexual assault happens, the
victim's body is the crime scene. And you want to
if you're going to go and get a rape kit,
because it's again it's a woman's choice whether or not
to go get the rape kit. UM. You want to
(06:14):
preserve that evidence as much as possible. Now, Kristen, you
brought up the issue of choice, and I think one
interesting I think I learned about rape kits in this
research is that you can go have the examination done
and still not press charges or make a case against
the abuser if you don't want to. A lot of
women don't come forward because they're scared of repercussions and uh,
(06:35):
they may not want to have the police involved. What
they've done thanks to the Violence Against Women Act, is
to make it so you can still have the rape
kit completed, that medical examination, and you don't have to
turn that evidence over to the police if you don't
want to. UM, And you can also remain completely anonymous.
They will assign you a number instead of using your name,
and that's referred to as a Jane Doe rape kit.
(06:58):
And obviously there's also going to be some ste testing,
pregnancy tests, You're gonna have an HIV test down the line. Um,
that's all separate, so you still, you know, people should
still get themselves checked out after a rape. This is
sort of what you can do. In addition, if you
want the evidence documented, right, UM, And then I think
we should also bring up the point that UM also,
(07:20):
thanks to the Violence Against Women Act UH, states have
to ensure that victims have access to rape kits free
of charge or with a full reimbursement because there have
been you know, some UH controversies about states possibly making
UM rape victims pay for rape kits, but that is
(07:43):
completely illegal. Yeah, I mean, it's it's like asking a
person whose family member has been murdered to pay for
the fingerprints. And at the same time too, the Violent
skinst Women Act is also built in some of that
protection for victims who might not want to go to
the police. They are allowed to have more time to
(08:05):
decide whether or not to pursue a case, whether or
not they want to go forward UM to UH to
the police and pursue, you know, some kind of criminal conviction.
And depending on where the person is, there will be
different time periods for when you know you can you
have to make that decision about whether you're going to
pursue a case the statutor limitations. So now we're gonna
talk a little bit about the same program sexual Assault
(08:28):
Nurse Examiner, and how that person can assist you through
the rape kit process. Because this program developed in the
nineteen seventies because there are a few issues with how
rape victims were being treated when they came into emergency
rooms for that collection of evidence. For one thing, if
the emergency room was busy, they were out in public
(08:49):
in a waiting room, perhaps not being seen because there
were things like gunshot wounds and the other uh you know,
injuries like that coming in and maybe while you can't
see the injury that takes place after rape, it's no
less severe. So they wanted to get the victims back
there faster, especially because you, like Kristen said, you can't eat, drink,
your name, change your clothes. Well your advised, yeah, you're
(09:11):
advised not to. And because it is a criminal investigation,
sometimes the doctors and nurses weren't properly trained and how
to do that investigation. You know, the pictures we saw
of the rape kid did show how it was very
sort of intuitive what you were supposed to do next
and how you would take the the samples. But the
doctors and nurses you know, may not have had the
best training on how to use uh that material. And
(09:34):
they also were concerned because rape victims emotional needs were
all too often overlooked because you know, if you've got
the wrong person who makes the wrong crack. It's just,
you know, it's devastating if you've got someone who is
you know, trying to ask you questions and it feels invasive,
it feels like they're blaming you. That was happening. So
that was UM sort of what set the same program
(09:56):
into motion. Yeah, And the first same program was established
in this Tennessee in nineteen seventy six, and the second
one that happened in Minneapolis in nineteen seventy seven. And
it wasn't until nineteen ninety one when the Journal of
Emergency Nursing published the first list of sane programs, with
only twenty programs listed. To me, it's baffling that in
(10:19):
nine Molly, we only had twenty programs twenty same programs
in the US, and five years later that number had
grown to eighty six and today there are more. However, UM,
sane programs are in battle because it's not uh, it's
not very well funded. UM. Obviously, becoming a sexual assault
(10:39):
nurse examiner requires extra training and UM it's also probably
one of the hardest jobs that someone could select. But
it's so these women are so important and they are
so needed because without them, you know, the the issue
of you know, women going and getting rape kids would
(11:01):
just be would be so much harder and uh for
for prosecuting UM alleged rapists. So to clarify, once a
sexual assault nurse examiners on the scene, she is responsible
for conducting that evidence gathering process with the rape kit.
She'll do the STD prevention test, she'll evaluate the rest
for pregnancy UM, and she'll also be a point person
(11:23):
if you need referrals for additional support or care. The
person who can help you figure out where you're gonna
sleep that night, and the person who can help you
decide if you do want to report it to the police. Uh,
that person, the saying, will help you kind of uh
explore all your options about doing that and service a
support person if you decide that you do want to report.
(11:44):
Now there are places where you have to places and
cases where you have to where there's mandatory reporting. So
if you do choose to report UM, the rape kit
is used as evidence in UM in a rape trial.
But here's the big thing. Here's the big problem with
rape kits, and which is why one of the big
(12:05):
reasons why Molly and I wanted to talk about today
because there's been a lot of controversy over whether or
not UM or over what happens to that rape kit
between the time you know, a victim goes to the
hospital and has it performed and all the evidence is
collected and UM the kit and whether or not it
is ever even processed because the reason why it needs
(12:27):
to be processed is for DNA evidence. But a report
from Human Rights Watch suggests that eight percent of rape
kits may have never been examined UM. And this is
in the state of Illinois, Okay, but this has been
a huge problem, particularly in l a um and New
(12:47):
York has kind of been heralded as the you know,
the standard for actually processing rape kits, but in so
many large metropolitan areas there is a huge backlog of
rape kits that are simply never processed. Right. It costs
about a thousand dollars to process one rape kit because
you've got the people who do the work, the processing
(13:08):
fees in the lab, and these programs are underfunded. And
you know, this article about the Illinois situation is data
July seven, two thou ten, so it's this month. And
the larger issue is that you know, you can use
that evidence to catch rapists and to punish them. And
now without that extra step, some some rapists are still
(13:30):
out there waiting to attack again. And just to give
you some numbers, in the case of Los Angeles, they
have more than two thousand rape kits and the pipeline
waiting testing UM and they are struggling to complete results
within a year after the request is made. And nationwide
crime lab saw their DNA testing backlog double from the
beginning to the end of two thousand five, according to
(13:54):
report from the Census of Publicly funded Crime Laboratories. UM. So,
to me, this is very disturbing because we have all
of these women who are going in and getting rape
kits after attacks and yet um, all of that, you know,
that very invasive process is kind of feutile in a
way if the DNA evidence is never even processed. There
(14:16):
was an article in the New York Times, and not
to be fearmongering about this, but I think this anecdote
UM from the New York Times is really telling because
there was a detective with the l a p D.
Who collected a rape kit from a forty three year
old legal secretary who was raped in her home as
her son slept in the other room, and um, the
(14:39):
just the way the rape happened, the detective felt like
this was a serial rapist, and so in an attempt
to track this person down, he wanted to get this
rape kit UM process as quickly as possible. So he
drove the department's crime lab, but was told to expect
a processing delay of more than a year. Then he
(14:59):
drives three fifty miles north to the States DNA testing
lab and same Sacramento, but the backlog prevented testing for
four months, and during that time, the rapists, the same rapists,
broken to the homes of a pregnant woman a seventeen
year old girl and sexually assaulted both of them. So
it's like, you know, this is so important for people
to be aware of the fact that because of um
(15:21):
shoddy federal funding and also a breakdown on state and
county level, UM, these rape kits are not not being
reported and crimes are happening even more as a result
of that. Now you mentioned the federal funding, Kryst, and
let me explain a little bit about that. The government
gives cities and states grants through their local law enforcement
agencies to process the rape kits. UM. They don't require
(15:46):
states to report their efforts. So that's one problem is
that there's sort of a lack of accountability. But also
there's a stipulation on the funds that UM the funds
can't be used to hire permanent staff. So, you know,
because when I was reading this, I was like, wow,
you know, if people want to find jobs, it sounds
like these testing centers really need people who have experience
in this. But you know, they can't bring people on
(16:08):
full time to do the strape kit. So that's that's
that is disturbing. But there are New York legislators who
are attempting to, uh to fix those rules. There's legislation
being put on the floor right now, right And I also,
I mean, then that's going on the federal level, and
I also point out that there is definitely a breakdown
as that money trickles through the system. For instance, then
York Times also reported that UM in Los Angeles, the
(16:33):
police department has spent less than half of a four
point four million dollars in federal money it received from
two thousand four to two thousand eight UM to uh,
you know, to just to support these uh these saying
and rape kit UM programs, So you know, even in
cases where they are getting money, you know they're not UM,
(16:55):
whether they're just hamstrung or not. UH, it's not being
it's not being used properly. So that is something that
you can do if you have an interest in UH
this issue and the prevention and of rape is to
work with local law enforcement, local politicians to ensure that
funding for rape kits and they're processing is used appropriately
(17:17):
UM not subject to cuts. And another thing that is
subject to cuts you mentioned this earlier, Kristen, is the
same program we talked about what a hard position it is,
but even people who choose to become sexual assault nurse
examiners are often thwarted because the funding make it cut
or because of these recent Supreme Court cases that are
(17:38):
limiting UH says abilities to testify in court. Right because
obviously the primary duty of a sexual assault nurse examiner
is to collect that evidence UM to kind of guide
sexual assault and rape victims UM through that that process
immediately following the incident. But at the same time, it's
(18:02):
also their role to UM serve as expert testimony on
anatomy and tissue UH in rape trials However, a recent
UM Supreme Court ruling in the case of Crawford versus
Washington UM has affected a saint's ability to repeat hearsay
statements made to her by patients UM who might not
(18:25):
be able to testify on their own. And a lot
of these nurse examiners are very concerned about the legal
ramifications of Crawford view Washington because that might eliminate UM
or I guess nullify their testimony, which could be instrumental
in UM bringing UH these criminals to justice. Right, as
(18:49):
Kristen said, if you make a statement outside of court
that can be used is hearsay, but statements record and
medical records are admissible. UM. But what happens here is
sort of a breakdown. If you've got a victim who's
telling her story to the saying that's gonna be a
mix of the medical stuff and also just the personal stuff,
and they're saying that, you know, doctors are kind of
(19:11):
exempt from this hearsay thing because people don't lie to
their doctors, And there's this assumption that people will lie
to a saying or that that um, you know, a
woman's story shouldn't be you know, thought of as evidence.
According to the saying, and you know, it's kind of
disturbing that UM, one scene was testifying that the injuries
suffered by the woman were you know, evidence of rape,
(19:35):
and that was thrown out because the jury was the
jury's job to make that decision of whether those injuries
were a sign of rape. So it's it's been very
interesting to see these court cases and quite frustrating, I think,
because it's almost like the saying is being punished for
serving in that close confident role. UM they are a
medical professional. But also you know, if if you've just
(19:59):
been attacked, you want to talk about it, and they're
saying basically that that talking about it almost disqualifies a
saying from further testimony. And to me, that's even more
troubling because first of all, you know, it's rapists such
a difficult UM crime to talk about, even from a
statistics perspective, because assessing the actual incidents rate is pretty
(20:22):
much impossible because it goes so unreported, and it's also
one of the least prosecuted crimes. UH. This UH same
Development and Operation Guide points out that only four percent
of rapists go to jail either as a result of
a guilty flee or guilty verdicts UM. So just hindering
(20:45):
that that legal process even more by limiting what UM
what saints can and can't say in court, I think
is UM is very troubling. Right. So again, it's something
you can keep your eye on on a local level.
If you're community has the same program, you can look
for ways to support that. So again, while you know,
(21:05):
talking about rape kits is not the lightest conversation UM
that we could bring up, I do think it's incredibly
important because as women and as men, I think it's
good to be armed with this kind of information because
hopefully none of our listeners out there will ever have
to go through the process of getting a rape kit.
(21:27):
But and why, But I think it's important to know
what goes into it and all of the issues surrounding it,
because it is a very intensive process to go through,
especially when it is immediately following um, you know, very
horrifying crime committed on your body. UM. So I think
it's great too and necessary for us to arm ourselves
(21:48):
with this kind of information to be better supports for
victims and survivors out there. And I just want to
give a shout out to the National Sexual Hotline UM
which is one eight six five six HOPE and also
the Rape and Incest National Networks website that has a
(22:10):
lot of good resources. If UM, you know, if this
is something that you want to learn more about, UM,
if you have been sexually assaulted, if you know you
have a friend or someone you're in a relationship with
who has been sexually assaulted and you don't know what
to do, there's so many resources out there UM that
you can that you can track down. So that's it,
(22:34):
all right, Well, let's do a little listener, ma'n before
I wrap it up. We've got one from Annie in
Hong Kong, and she writes that my grandmother had her
feet bound when she was a child for two years
and the words my mom, she rebelled stopped finding it
at an unknown age. My grandma then somehow walked with
her husband and her mongolia and promptly gave birth to
(22:56):
six children. However, if you asked her if she ever
had her foot bound, she would say, oh, no, no no.
But if you ask any of her children her husband,
the answer be a firm yes. Even though she's a bell,
she still favors small feet and hands on her girls.
Last week when I visit her, which I do every year,
she held my hands and bit every finger with her
aby something year old teeth. It's a sign of affection.
She does it every time I visit. She said that
(23:18):
it's good that I don't have my mom's monkey feet
and long, bony monkey like hands. And it's not only her.
My family still sees having small feet and hands proferably plump,
as being blessed, as would mean that the possessor wouldn't
have had such a hard life. That is how my
hands and feet become a topic of discussion whenever we
have family gatherings. So we hope to hear from you
as well. Email addresses mom stuff at how stuff works
(23:41):
dot com. You can follow us on Twitter and we
would be so grateful to you if you would like
us on Facebook, and as always, you can check out
our blog during the week. You can find it at
how stuff works dot com. For more, are on this
and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works
(24:03):
dot com. Want more how stuff works, check out our
blogs on the house stuff works dot com home page.
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready are you
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com