January 16, 2013 • 37 mins
Why are so many people drawn to cooking, crafts and lifestyles from a bygone era? How do Etsy, Pinterest and mommy blogs fuel new domesticity? Tune in as Cristen and Caroline interview with Emily Matchar on her book on the new domesticity movement
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Stuff
Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline and Caroline. Today we have a
special podcast episode because I got to chat with Emily Matcher,
(00:26):
who is the author of the upcoming book Homeward Bound,
The New Cult of Domesticity, and it is coming out.
It's slated to come out in May, so right around
the corner, but you can check out her blogging over
at New New Domesticity dot com. And the reason why
we wanted to talk to match her about New Domesticity
(00:49):
is because it ties into a lot of things that
we talked about on the podcast, and I feel like
a lot of interests that podcast listeners have. Yeah, she
Matcher is a really interesting woman. This whole idea of
new domesticity being something that a lot of women are
being attracted to. And there's this very interesting debate that
(01:10):
that we've kind of been keeping tabs on about is
this something that helps women or is this somehow sending
women back to the Stone age and oppressing them. So
there's a lot of arguments on both sides. Yeah, and um,
in our chat with Emily Matcher, she'll give us more
details about what new domesticity is, but just for a
general idea, we're talking about the revival of things like
(01:33):
knitting and handcrafts. Etsy is a great online source just
for a glimpse of new domesticity and even more intensive,
time intensive things like backyard chicken keeping, canning, preserving. Uh,
really a return to I guess lost domestic arts that
(01:54):
were replaced by more convenient appliances or techniques or just
a TV dinner, TeV dinners, things like that. And she
she does talk about how there's this return um from
what our mothers and grandmothers were doing, which is maybe
relying on those TV dinners, maybe not cooking those homemade
pies or knitting sweaters as you know, as much as
(02:15):
our predecessors were. Yeah, And we first noticed Emily's work
over at Salon when we were researching our episode on
Pinterest and she she wrote about the why I can't
stop reading Mormon housewife blogs and it's a great post
so where she talks about um, Mormon mommy bloggers and
(02:37):
sort of the this Pinterest perfect life it seems like
a lot of them are living and how that ties
into new domesticity. In her fascination with that in comparison
to how she lives her own day to day life
in a much less pinterest perfect way, which I think
you know, you and I Caroline can probably both relate
to very strongly. Um So, so, yeah, we chat with Emily.
(03:01):
She is living currently in China, so we had an
international conversation with her, and I guess why don't we
listen to what Emily had to say about New Domesticity,
her book that's coming out. What New Domesticity is, how
men play a role in this stuff as well, and
(03:22):
some other things. And uh so, why don't we kick
off my interview with Emily with the question I asked
her of what got her interested in new domesticity and
if she could offer some more insight into what exactly
that is. So ladies and gents, please enjoy our conversation
with Emily Matcher. So New Domesticity is just the title
(03:52):
that I'm sort of throwing at a variety of interrelated things.
Um but generally speaking, the sort of the resurgence of
interest in old fashioned domestic stuff, you know, and this
is everything from the you know, knitting, the crafting revival.
You know, we've seen knitting and Etsy and crocheting and
(04:13):
all this stuff is hip again, you know, UM and
the hoodie movement and people being really into food and
home cooking all the way through to sort of neo homesteading, um,
you know, people raising chickens in their backyard and uh
and wanting to get back to me six and that
whole thing. And so I sort of look at it
as part of you know, one larger phenomenon. That's what
(04:35):
I'm calling new domesticity. UM. And yeah, I got interested
in it because as um, as a writer who writes
a lot about about food and culture, I kept meeting
people who were like really into canning jam you know.
But it wasn't just it wasn't just you know, a hobby.
It was sort of part of a lifestyle. And um.
(04:58):
You know, I'd meet meet you know, women that were
into attachment parenting, who home schooled their kids and baked
all their own bread and raised goats and and I
began to see that this was sort of it was
a larger lifestyle movement, that these things were sort of
pieces of UM. And that's when I got I got
sort of curious about it as um as a bigger thing.
(05:21):
You know, wondering where it came from and what it meant. Well.
You mentioned on the website one of the blog posts
when you you'd worked out the working title for the
book and how it UM is a nod to the
Victorian era cult of domesticity, which has, like those the
four cardinal virtues of piety, purity, submission, and domesticity. So
(05:45):
I wanted to get your thoughts on what might be
the cardinal virtues of the cult of New Domesticity. I
think the cardinal virtue UM would probably be d I
y do it yourself UM. And this takes a lot
of forms. I think there's a there's a real impetus
(06:07):
in this movement to to do things yourself, you know,
miss could be cooking from scratch, or selling your own clothes,
or growing your own veggies, you know, all the way
through homeschooling your own children. It's very much about sort
of you know, going outside the system and UM and
(06:27):
and doing things yourself. I would say that's the cardinal virtue,
although things like UM you certainly see sort of an
interest in purity when it comes to food and things
like that, which which definitely have parallels with the nineteenth
century cult of domesticity and and generally sort of the
I think the idea, even if it's not spoken, um,
(06:52):
that by doing this stuff you are a better person,
a better woman, a better mother. Uh. Well, I think
it's really interesting in reading about um sort of what
is driving a lot of this, a lot of the
resurgence for these um you know, sort of crafts from
a slower time and uh, and you talk about how
(07:15):
it's linked a lot of times to a disfaction dissatisfaction.
Excuse me with you know, the idea of you know,
the nine to five world sitting in a cubicle being
a weekend warrior and uh is it? Are we just
looking back to, you know, wanting a bygone era of
a slower and even like less convenient time, even though
(07:37):
you know, the the lifestyle that we have now is
supposed to be um, you know, faster and easier and
and all of that. You know, I think there's a
real nostalgia for what people perceive as a sort of
simpler and more wholesome time. And I think a lot
of that has to do with, um, you know, we
live in a super high tech society and you know,
just on a very basic level, Um, you know, when
(07:59):
you work at a computer all day, I think we
have you know, humans have a pretty you know, natural urge.
We like to do things with their hands, right, you know.
And so I think when you're when you're sort of
separated from that, when you're in an office, when you're
you know, living in this high tech world, people have
a craving for for you know, tactile connection. And so
(08:22):
I think a lot of stuff, like you know, crafting
and cooking has to do with people wanting to reclaim
that connection, being be able to work with their hands. Um.
And then you know, people, this is the We're living
in a in a pretty anxious era for a lot
of reasons, you know, the economy and the environment and
political instability and war and all these things that make
(08:45):
people people anxious. I think people crave what they perceive
as a more simple and stable time. You know, this
idea that oh, you know, back in the day when
you know, are in our great grandparents era, you worked
on the farm and you made your own things, and
you you know, didn't have to go work this horrible
(09:06):
nine job that you hate that you could lose any
day anyway. Um, And I think that creates a sort
of powerful urge to get back to what people perceive
as the basic Um, well, can you talk a little
bit about the role of the Internet and being wired
and how that relates to new domesticity, because it seems
(09:26):
like on the one hand that um, you know, our
constant connection via the Internet and social media and just
a fast pace that comes along with that maybe fuel
some of that anxiety that you're talking about that makes
us want to you know, slow things down and uh
feel that nostalgia. But at the same time too, it
(09:47):
seems like the Internet is also facilitated all of these
communities and platforms things like Etsy. Uh So, I was
just wondering what what your take on how how the Internet,
Internet it relates to all of this would be, Well,
I think you you totally hit on it. I think, um,
the Internet both drives new dust domesticity, and new domesticity
(10:10):
is also a reaction against the Internet culture to some degree.
I definitely do not think that new domesticity would exist
at all without the Internet. I think, um, you know,
like you said, it has facilitated, um, the revival of
a lot of this stuff. You know, the crafting movement
really came out of um out of websites dedicated to crafting,
(10:33):
and now we have stuff like etc and UM and Ravelry,
which is a knitting website. UM and you know ininterest
for people share crafts and ideas UM. And then there's
the whole world of blogs, you know, and food blogs
and people sharing recipes and these have created like these
real communities and I think really driven interest and stuff
(10:55):
like you know, do it yourself and from scratch cooking
and UM and and and you know, created these communities
and created you know, a sort of sense of of
aspiration if you look at these you know, neo domestic blogs,
they're so beautiful and you know, everything's photographed so nicely,
(11:16):
and you look at them and even if you're not
at all like domestic or interested in cooking or crafty,
it's kind of hard not to look at some of these,
you know, lifestyle blogs and go oh, you know, I
want that um and uh and I think yeah. On
on the flip side of that, there's just the fact
(11:37):
of the Internet being this, you know, seven technological invasion
of your home that I think a lot of people
want to escape from when they're you know, going back
to basics, like you know, when you're spending your time
doing something tactile like cooking or or knitting or you know,
growing veggies in your backyard. You're making a you know,
(11:59):
del bridge choice to step away from internet culture. Yeah.
Do you think that, Um, And this is just kind
of on a side note that because I feel like
the rise of the quote unquote mommy bloggers almost predated
the popularity of Etsy and Ravelry and these other like
larger communities. And do you think that maybe mom bloggers
(12:22):
in a way sort of and having that platform. Uh,
I don't know, showed the value of housework in a
way that maybe it had been dismissed for a little while.
Is just you know, oh, you're just to stay at
home mom, But now you can actually see all of
these things that they're doing, this incredible food that they're
(12:43):
making and uh, their home designer however they're doing it.
If that makes sense, No, Yeah, I think you you
totally hit it on the head. Um. I think there
has been a movement for for a while, and probably
a little bit predating the Internet, you know, maybe starting
in the nineties, to to reclaim you know, old fashioned
(13:05):
women's work like um, like crafts. I think there's a
big crafting revival that started with sort of the punk
rock riot girl movement in the nineties, with you know,
women saying, hey, like it's cool and punk rock to
do uh crocheting and make your own clothes and stuff
like that, and that sort of grew into a whole
movement to to reclaim the domestic, to reclaim respect for
(13:27):
roum for old fashioned women's work, which you know, had
been very denigrated over the years. If you look at
you know, like Bust magazine, is this you know, sort
of third way feminist magazine that started UM, you know,
running these sort of kitchy pictures of housewives and you know,
how to cleaning articles like in the late nineties early
(13:49):
two thousand's as sort of this big you know, this
this movement to UM to sort of reclaim, reclaim women's
work as something of value. And I think the mom
blogging ended up being part of a big part of
that because a lot of I think a lot of
(14:12):
the reason that women's work has been historically devalued is
because it's invisible. You don't you know, you don't know
what your neighbors dinner looks like. You don't see her
folding her laundry. You don't see any of that stuff.
And so I think that's one of the reasons it
was very hard to be a housewife was because you
didn't get any external validation. And especially you know, once
(14:33):
women started getting educations and started having experience and the
workforce and got used to the external validation of you know,
being in a workplace, they're getting grades in school, I
think a lot of people found it very hard to
not get that anymore. And I think mom blogs um
uh unintentionally ended up becoming this venue for people to
(14:55):
show off there um what they did in the home
and thereby gaining some some validation for it. You know,
like you might cook dinner every night and uh, you know,
maybe your husband and your kids say thank you, maybe
they don't. But if you photograph your dinner and you
put the recipe online, people are going to go, hey,
oh awesome, you know, great recipe, and you're going to
(15:18):
get you're going to get validation. And I think that's
actually this pretty like phenomenal important effective um of mom
blogs and lifestyle blogs because all of a sudden, you know,
this women's work that's been invisible for you know, since
the dawn of time, all of a sudden has this
(15:39):
very public platform. You know, well, it's interesting, like there is.
It reminds me too of of a post that you
had on the website about, um whether or not we're
almost going overboard, Like you know, I think you were
talking to something about going on apartment therapy and wondering
whether or not you should like curtains up, and then
(16:00):
you didn't even want to ask because it's like, now
we're almost to the point where everything you know looks
so perfect online and we have these like aspirational blogs
that we look like look at and pinterest in all
of this. UM So, I wonder if are is there
a danger and especially in talking about this within the
framework of feminism, is there a danger in exalting this
(16:26):
quote unquote women's work too much to where we're back
in the same place we were where, you know, back
to something along the lines of the you know, the
Victorian culture domesticity, where woman's worth is found in what
her home looks like. Well, that's exactly exactly the problem.
You know. On the one hand, of course, you know,
(16:48):
people should be validated for the work they do. On
the other hand, the sort of um, the all the
sharing of of domesticity. UM mind does create a sense
of competition and does there is a sense in which
it raises the bar on a on what it takes
(17:09):
to be a good um, a good housekeeper, good a
good mother, or a good woman. You know, because before
the internet, like you know, the housework wasn't visible. You
didn't know what your neighbor's closet looked like. You didn't
know what your neighbor's dinner looks like. And now you
can go online, you can look at blogs. You can see,
you know, what these strangers are cooking and eating, and
(17:33):
what their kids are wearing, and they keep craft projects
they did and you know, of course this isn't the
full view of their lives, you know, naturally, it's this
completely edited, mediated view of their life that's put on
the blog for public consumption. But I think people have
a hard time reading between the lines there, you know,
(17:54):
because blogs are supposed to be this very authentic, you know,
very personal medium. Yeah, and there becomes we get this
really you know, uncomfortable gray area where um, you know
a lot of bloggers are sort of semi professionals, taking
sort of semi professional pictures of their semi professional cooking
and decorating, and you know, regular people go, oh, you know,
(18:19):
now I feel bad about myself. Why doesn't my food
look like that? Why doesn't my living room look like that? Um?
And it does create a culture in which, you know,
the the whole you know, thousands of women are deaning
this validation for being good housekeepers, which is sort of,
(18:42):
in my mind, uncomfortably close to the whole cult of domesticity.
You know, Um, people are gaining validation from having you know,
the cutest living rooms or the nicest looking dinner. So um. So. Yeah.
On the one hand, I think that, you know, it's
great that people can be validated for the hard work
they do in the home. On the other hand, I
do worry that it the whole culture of lifestyle blogs,
(19:05):
you know, raises the bar for ordinary women who spend
a lot of time looking at semi professional blogs and
feeling bad about themselves and feeling like their self worth
is really tied up and in how well they keep
their home. Yeah, because it also seems to add another
wrinkle to the whole debate that about about whether or
(19:27):
not women can have it all, you know, because for
so long it's been something that's more just you know,
looking for career success in the workplace and yes, childcare
and managing all of that. But now there's sort of
a new, um, a new aspect to it as well.
And I'm just wondering, like when, you know, can we
(19:50):
have the career success in the corner office and also
have our own canned jam that we can bring into
office parties, you know what I mean. Like it seems
like there's so there's so much now, Like it's a
good thing that, uh, women's work is being validated in
a lot of ways, like in terms of the domestic sphere,
But where does this square with work outside of the home?
(20:16):
Right right? Well? Um, you know, I think one of
the big problems is that you know, in in New
domesticity sort of as a movement, um, a lot of
this stuff gets sort of very moralized because it's tied
up with um, you know, questions of consumerism and questions
of environmentalism and questions of what kind of food is
good and safe to eat? Right. So, you know, it's
(20:39):
easy enough when somebody's just knitting for a hobby, but um,
you know, you get it's much more complicated than that.
You get, Um, you know, a lot of talk about well,
you know, you should be cooking from scratch because that's
the way, that's the only way that it's healthy for
your family. And you know, you should would be knowing
(21:00):
your farmer and go into a farmer's market. You should
be buying organic, and you should be you know, growing
your veggies and you know, soaking your grains and doing
all these things because it's the right thing to do
for your children's health, and it's the right thing to
do for the environment and for your local community. And um,
(21:21):
you know, oh you should be you know making your
own cleaning solutions out of vinegar because you know it's
good for the environment. And don't take lazy shortcuts because
that's bad for the environment. And oh, you know, if
you go out and buy things or higher you know,
babysitters to go to the movies, you know, that's sort
of consumerists. I think, Um, I think there's this there's
(21:44):
this huge sort of moralization of the domestic realm, this
idea that your domestic choices can have these huge impacts
on the world. Like of course people are going to
feel like they're never doing it right, you know. Um,
so I think that makes it. You know, women, like
you said, already have a hard enough time trying to
(22:05):
keep things together in terms of job and childcare. And
now there's also the sense that you know, well, you
can't just take a short cut by you know, buying
you know, pre made meals or dropping your kids off
at daycare, because that's somehow you know, im moral, wrong
and and and bad for your children and bad for
(22:27):
the world, you know what I mean. Um, and that
puts a huge amount of pressure on women. UM well,
I'm also really curious about the people that you've met
through this new domesticity research and wondering. I mean, obviously
there's the cornerstone d I y ethic and um, you know,
the embrace of going more natural and slower in a way. Uh,
(22:52):
but have you noticed certain hallmarks of people who are
really drawn and very invested in um these kinds of
of new domesticity, Like what they have in common with
each other? Yeah, if there are any, like I don't know,
any certain types of personality traits I feel like, like,
for instance, like people that I know who are incredibly
(23:14):
crafty are just like very organized and very creative and
and things like that. So I was just wondering, uh,
if you had noticed certain I don't know, shared traits
or anything like that. Well, I'll say that there's a
huge variety of people doing this, and obviously it's not
all women. And I did interview um for my for
(23:35):
my blogging from my book, UM plenty of men, and
that there are people in different socio economic groups and
and different um, sort of political beliefs too. You get
a lot of you know, sort of very conservative Christian
women embracing d I y and natural parenting and that
whole thing, UM, as well as sort of your stereotypical
crunchy liberals. But I will say, UM, I think I
(23:58):
think one of the things that a lot, though not
all of UM of women that are very into new
domesticity have in common is that they are very smart,
generally educated, and really creative, but for one reason or
the other, have not connected with a career. And this
is this doesn't mean they don't have one, you know,
(24:21):
but they might not find it totally satisfying, or it
might be part time, or they might have you know,
left it after their children were born. UM. And I think,
you know, being creative and UM and educated and engaged,
they find you know, engaging a new domesticity, a way
(24:44):
of um, you know, a way of using their energies
and and using their creativity UM in the absence of
a job or the absence of a really satisfying job.
You know. So if you're doing a lot of super
intensive domestic stuff all the time, you know, you're, say,
you're homeschooling your kids, or you're just, um, you have
(25:05):
a huge garden that you're in every day, or you're
sewing your own clothes, or you're you know, you're raising chickens.
That sort of becomes like a career in a sense
for some people, and even people who don't take it
that far. I think, you know, um, even just being
very invested in something like cooking from scratch takes a
lot of time and energy and creativity UM that maybe
(25:28):
you're not using on the job because you are because
you don't have a job, or because you um, you know,
you have a job that's not fully engaging you for
whatever reason. And I think this is even for for
younger women who don't have kids, and for men and everybody.
I think dissatisfaction with the job definitely leads to UM
(25:51):
wanting to do more creative stuff. So if you're sort
of bored in your job, like lots of us are,
you know, especially with the recession and people maybe not
having their dream job, Like, yeah, you want to come
home and you want to you know, do something that
you're engaged with and passionate about. And that's where you know,
raising your bees on the rooftop um and you know,
in crocheting, that's where that kind of stuff comes in
(26:13):
to fill that to fill back gap. Well, speaking of
raising bees on rooftops, was very curious about maybe some
of the more extreme or just intriguing examples of new domesticity,
like you know, like someone washing laundering their own clothes
with you know, an old school washboard, or grinding their
(26:34):
own flower or anything like that. I did not actually
meet anyone who used an old fashioned washboard. That would
be so much work, oh my gosh, but you know what,
I'm sure somebody's doing it. I did meet lots of
people who you know, who hung their clothes to dry um.
But I met let's see, I met a woman in
Brooklyn who was raising rabbits and chickens and bees in
(26:55):
her Brooklyn backyard that was like, you know, the size
of a postage stamp. Um, and that a woman who
had been a web designer and had decided to just
go off grid on our own and was living in
like very rural state New York trying to raise sheep. Um.
I met you know, women that were very into natural mothering,
(27:19):
who you know, had six kids before they were thirty
and we're homeschooling all of them. Um. So yeah, and
people who people who were trying really hard to grow
all their own food. Um. Some people who sewed all
their families clothes. So yeah, I mean you can you
can see how a few know you are really into
(27:41):
new domesticity is like an entire lifestyle. Um, it's a
it's quite time and energy consuming. Yeah, I can help
me imagine. Um. Well, you also you mentioned a few
minutes ago that you also spoke to some men about
news New Domesticity, and I just wanted to know where
(28:01):
they fit into it, because you know, it makes sense
that a lot of the conversation is framed around women
mothers who are very invested in this kind of housekeeping
and and crafting and stuff. But obviously men are are
getting in on this as well. So what what are
they doing in terms of new domesticity. Yeah, I mean
(28:23):
a lot of a lot of the same things really,
um you know. I mean women have historically, um, a
stronger and more complicated relationship with um, with the domestic sphere,
but that's that's changing. And a lot of men, especially
young men, are you know, are also interested in in
d I Y domesticity. I mean tons of men are
(28:46):
you know, really interested in cooking and you know, curing
their own bacon and uh, making stuff from scratch and
pickling and all that stuff in the kitchen. Um you know.
I mean I think men are definitely behind when it
comes to uh, you know, traditional crafts um, which has
been very very female dominated over the years. But plenty
(29:06):
of guys are are into other d I Y type stuff.
I mean, there are there are some guys that are
into knitting. I did interview um a male quilster um
and uh. But you know, guys doing things like you know,
fixing their own bikes and other sorts of of do
(29:27):
it yourself building things around the house than guys who
wanted to build their own houses. Um and uh. And yeah,
when it comes to parenting, I mean, the the whole
natural parenting movement does tend to be very mother centric.
But there are men I talked to who were involved
in and stuff like like home schooling their kids. UM.
(29:52):
And yeah, and then the whole homesteading movement. UM, A
lot of men are into that and a lot of
the people I talked to, UM, they would be couples
and both partners would be involved in the homesteading to
some degree, which you know, if you're going to be
doing something as time consuming is raising animals, you know,
in a suburban backyard, it's a good thing of both
of you are are invested in it. Is there anything
(30:13):
that we didn't touch on about new domesticity or anything
related to that that you would like our listeners to
know about. I mean, I guess I just think, Um,
new domesticity can mean a lot of different different things,
and for some people, you know, some people are just
you know, maybe involved and you know they just happen
(30:34):
to like to knit or craft and it doesn't have
any larger meaning than that. But I think when you
take all these things together, I think it's definitely a
movement to you know, to reclaim you know, some slower
ways of living and uh and live in a more
sustainable way. And it's a reaction to the bad and
(30:54):
you know, um economy and people dissatisfaction with jobs and
just sort of a general unhappiness with the status quo.
Um that's leading people to be interested in everything from
making their own clothes to growing their own food to
you know, homeschool in their kids. So I think, um,
it's a it's a lot of different things that it
(31:16):
means different things for different people. Yeah, it's definitely. It's
it's very interesting to see how, like you you said,
it touches like so many different people with different political
affiliations or might be religious motivations or more secular motivations.
It's just it's kind of fascinating to see how it
(31:37):
appeals to such a broad and diverse group of people. Um. Yeah,
well in my book, I have a whole chapter on them.
I'm the sort of bizarre bedfellows of new domesticity. How
you get stuff like you know, the Amish and uh,
you know, bearded Brooklyn hipsters who are you know, swapping
(32:00):
tips about you know, seeds and growing tomatoes, and you
get you know, very very conservative religious Christian women that
are into natural mothering because it appeals to their sort
of idea. You know of of you know, god given
motherly instinct, and they're doing things like home birthing and homeschooling, um,
cloth stapering and that whole thing, just like the superliberal
(32:23):
country women of Berkeley who are doing it for completely
different reasons. Um. So I think I think that's really fascinating,
this sort of that, you know, red state and blue
state would come together on the domestic front in this way.
So I'd like to go ahead and just thank Emily
(32:43):
so much for talking to us. It was a really
interesting interview. And I do think this whole concept of
new domesticity is fascinating just simply, I mean, like taking
all the rest of it out, just simply for the
fact that so many different types of people subscribe to
this philosophy of I'm going to make things at home,
I'm going to make things myself. I'm going to you know,
(33:03):
provide for my family and myself, uh by making things
with my own hands. Yeah. And it's really fascinating to
me too what what she hits on in terms of
how it's often fueled. It seems like by a general
angst over the pace of our day to day life
and needing to take time away from the hustle and
(33:26):
bustle of twenty one century, living to slow down and
actually make things that we can hold and that we
can eat, and that we can take pictures of and
put on Pinterest. You know, that's the funny part of it.
It's that tension between wanting to get away from it
and yet the Internet fueling it at the same time. So, UM,
(33:47):
I can't wait to hear from folks out there who
are knitters and canners and cooks and chicken raizors New
domesticity folks, I'm sure you know who you are. And again, um,
you can find Emily Matcher's writing all over the Internet
at places like The Washington Post, Salon, Men's Journal, the BBC,
(34:11):
The Hairpin, and other sites as well, and she also
blogs at New Domesticity dot com. And again, Emily Matchew's book,
which is coming out in May, is called Homeward Bound,
The New Cult of Domesticity. It's coming out from Simon
and Schuster, so keep an eye out for that. Again,
thanks so much to Emily, And for folks who want
(34:33):
to send us your thoughts on New domesticity and what
you thought about what Emily had to say, you can
send us an email. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com
is our address. Here is a letter from Joss Kristen.
She wrote in about our dieting and Feminism is episode
and was a little disappointed. Oh man. She says she's
(34:55):
disappointed that neither of us mentioned the idea of Health
at Every Size or h A E F well, not
directly related to feminism. Help It Every Size is a
concept that many fat activists have been advocating. My understanding
of Health It Every Size is that it questions a
lot of commonly held belief surrounding obesity and health, such
as the supposed link between obesity and diabetes. Supporters of
(35:18):
h a e S advocate for eating a balanced diet
and exercising regardless of how much weight loss it may
or may not cause. Linda Bacon's book Help It Every Size,
The Surprising Truth about Your Weight is a good place
to start if you're new to the idea. There's quite
a lot to be said about h a e S
and perhaps worth doing an entire episode on. Yeah, fat
activism is um something that we do need to talk
(35:41):
about at some points, So thanks for the point, Joff. Yeah, absolutely,
and I've got another email here in response to our
episode on whether dating is a feminist issue? And this
is from Kendra, and she writes, I was appropriately enough
working out in the gym when I listened to your
podcast on dieting and feminism, and I got so excited
that I scooted I tush off the elliptical just to
(36:01):
give my opinion on the issue. She says, as recovering interrexic,
I spent most of high school dieting myself to a
very unhealthy b M. I I was able to break
away from the disease in part by making dieting a
feminist issue in my own life. Every time I saw
a calorie count go above six hundred in a day,
I justified it by using the battle cry, and I
(36:22):
will take out the exclutive here, screw the patriarchy. A
few years have passed and I finally feel secure enough
with myself to be able to look at diet and
exercise a bit more objectively. While I still refused to
diet for weight loss, I find that daily exercise helps
me in a number of ways beyond making me fit
into my skinny jeans. I feel more relaxed, a better sleep,
(36:43):
and even have clearer skin. When I work out for
even just thirty minutes a day. Besides, it gives me
a great opportunity to listen to folks like you on
a regular basis. So in summery, while I tend to
disapprove of women dieting just to get skinny because I
worry about them slipping down the same rabbit hole that
I did, I think that women and all should always
do whatever makes them feel like the best version of themselves.
(37:04):
Here here indeed, so thank you Kendra and John and
everyone else who has written into us. Moms Stuff at
Discovery dot com is where you can send your letters,
or you can head over to Facebook and start a
conversation there and like us. While you're at it, you
can tweet us at Mom's Stuff podcast, and you can
also tumble with us on Tumbler Stuff Mom Never Told
(37:25):
You dot tumbler dot com. And again, huge thanks to
Emily Matcher for taking the time to chat with us
about New Domesticity and her new book, Homeward Bound. Please
check it out, And as always, if you would like
to get a little smarter this week, you can head
over to our website, it is how Stuff Works dot
(37:45):
com for more on this and thousands of other topics.
Does it, how stuff works, dot com
Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Stuff
Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline and Caroline. Today we have a
special podcast episode because I got to chat with Emily Matcher,
(00:26):
who is the author of the upcoming book Homeward Bound,
The New Cult of Domesticity, and it is coming out.
It's slated to come out in May, so right around
the corner, but you can check out her blogging over
at New New Domesticity dot com. And the reason why
we wanted to talk to match her about New Domesticity
(00:49):
is because it ties into a lot of things that
we talked about on the podcast, and I feel like
a lot of interests that podcast listeners have. Yeah, she
Matcher is a really interesting woman. This whole idea of
new domesticity being something that a lot of women are
being attracted to. And there's this very interesting debate that
(01:10):
that we've kind of been keeping tabs on about is
this something that helps women or is this somehow sending
women back to the Stone age and oppressing them. So
there's a lot of arguments on both sides. Yeah, and um,
in our chat with Emily Matcher, she'll give us more
details about what new domesticity is, but just for a
general idea, we're talking about the revival of things like
(01:33):
knitting and handcrafts. Etsy is a great online source just
for a glimpse of new domesticity and even more intensive,
time intensive things like backyard chicken keeping, canning, preserving. Uh,
really a return to I guess lost domestic arts that
(01:54):
were replaced by more convenient appliances or techniques or just
a TV dinner, TeV dinners, things like that. And she
she does talk about how there's this return um from
what our mothers and grandmothers were doing, which is maybe
relying on those TV dinners, maybe not cooking those homemade
pies or knitting sweaters as you know, as much as
(02:15):
our predecessors were. Yeah, And we first noticed Emily's work
over at Salon when we were researching our episode on
Pinterest and she she wrote about the why I can't
stop reading Mormon housewife blogs and it's a great post
so where she talks about um, Mormon mommy bloggers and
(02:37):
sort of the this Pinterest perfect life it seems like
a lot of them are living and how that ties
into new domesticity. In her fascination with that in comparison
to how she lives her own day to day life
in a much less pinterest perfect way, which I think
you know, you and I Caroline can probably both relate
to very strongly. Um So, so, yeah, we chat with Emily.
(03:01):
She is living currently in China, so we had an
international conversation with her, and I guess why don't we
listen to what Emily had to say about New Domesticity,
her book that's coming out. What New Domesticity is, how
men play a role in this stuff as well, and
(03:22):
some other things. And uh so, why don't we kick
off my interview with Emily with the question I asked
her of what got her interested in new domesticity and
if she could offer some more insight into what exactly
that is. So ladies and gents, please enjoy our conversation
with Emily Matcher. So New Domesticity is just the title
(03:52):
that I'm sort of throwing at a variety of interrelated things.
Um but generally speaking, the sort of the resurgence of
interest in old fashioned domestic stuff, you know, and this
is everything from the you know, knitting, the crafting revival.
You know, we've seen knitting and Etsy and crocheting and
(04:13):
all this stuff is hip again, you know, UM and
the hoodie movement and people being really into food and
home cooking all the way through to sort of neo homesteading, um,
you know, people raising chickens in their backyard and uh
and wanting to get back to me six and that
whole thing. And so I sort of look at it
as part of you know, one larger phenomenon. That's what
(04:35):
I'm calling new domesticity. UM. And yeah, I got interested
in it because as um, as a writer who writes
a lot about about food and culture, I kept meeting
people who were like really into canning jam you know.
But it wasn't just it wasn't just you know, a hobby.
It was sort of part of a lifestyle. And um.
(04:58):
You know, I'd meet meet you know, women that were
into attachment parenting, who home schooled their kids and baked
all their own bread and raised goats and and I
began to see that this was sort of it was
a larger lifestyle movement, that these things were sort of
pieces of UM. And that's when I got I got
sort of curious about it as um as a bigger thing.
(05:21):
You know, wondering where it came from and what it meant. Well.
You mentioned on the website one of the blog posts
when you you'd worked out the working title for the
book and how it UM is a nod to the
Victorian era cult of domesticity, which has, like those the
four cardinal virtues of piety, purity, submission, and domesticity. So
(05:45):
I wanted to get your thoughts on what might be
the cardinal virtues of the cult of New Domesticity. I
think the cardinal virtue UM would probably be d I
y do it yourself UM. And this takes a lot
of forms. I think there's a there's a real impetus
(06:07):
in this movement to to do things yourself, you know,
miss could be cooking from scratch, or selling your own clothes,
or growing your own veggies, you know, all the way
through homeschooling your own children. It's very much about sort
of you know, going outside the system and UM and
(06:27):
and doing things yourself. I would say that's the cardinal virtue,
although things like UM you certainly see sort of an
interest in purity when it comes to food and things
like that, which which definitely have parallels with the nineteenth
century cult of domesticity and and generally sort of the
I think the idea, even if it's not spoken, um,
(06:52):
that by doing this stuff you are a better person,
a better woman, a better mother. Uh. Well, I think
it's really interesting in reading about um sort of what
is driving a lot of this, a lot of the
resurgence for these um you know, sort of crafts from
a slower time and uh, and you talk about how
(07:15):
it's linked a lot of times to a disfaction dissatisfaction.
Excuse me with you know, the idea of you know,
the nine to five world sitting in a cubicle being
a weekend warrior and uh is it? Are we just
looking back to, you know, wanting a bygone era of
a slower and even like less convenient time, even though
(07:37):
you know, the the lifestyle that we have now is
supposed to be um, you know, faster and easier and
and all of that. You know, I think there's a
real nostalgia for what people perceive as a sort of
simpler and more wholesome time. And I think a lot
of that has to do with, um, you know, we
live in a super high tech society and you know,
just on a very basic level, Um, you know, when
(07:59):
you work at a computer all day, I think we
have you know, humans have a pretty you know, natural urge.
We like to do things with their hands, right, you know.
And so I think when you're when you're sort of
separated from that, when you're in an office, when you're
you know, living in this high tech world, people have
a craving for for you know, tactile connection. And so
(08:22):
I think a lot of stuff, like you know, crafting
and cooking has to do with people wanting to reclaim
that connection, being be able to work with their hands. Um.
And then you know, people, this is the We're living
in a in a pretty anxious era for a lot
of reasons, you know, the economy and the environment and
political instability and war and all these things that make
(08:45):
people people anxious. I think people crave what they perceive
as a more simple and stable time. You know, this
idea that oh, you know, back in the day when
you know, are in our great grandparents era, you worked
on the farm and you made your own things, and
you you know, didn't have to go work this horrible
(09:06):
nine job that you hate that you could lose any
day anyway. Um, And I think that creates a sort
of powerful urge to get back to what people perceive
as the basic Um, well, can you talk a little
bit about the role of the Internet and being wired
and how that relates to new domesticity, because it seems
(09:26):
like on the one hand that um, you know, our
constant connection via the Internet and social media and just
a fast pace that comes along with that maybe fuel
some of that anxiety that you're talking about that makes
us want to you know, slow things down and uh
feel that nostalgia. But at the same time too, it
(09:47):
seems like the Internet is also facilitated all of these
communities and platforms things like Etsy. Uh So, I was
just wondering what what your take on how how the Internet,
Internet it relates to all of this would be, Well,
I think you you totally hit on it. I think, um,
the Internet both drives new dust domesticity, and new domesticity
(10:10):
is also a reaction against the Internet culture to some degree.
I definitely do not think that new domesticity would exist
at all without the Internet. I think, um, you know,
like you said, it has facilitated, um, the revival of
a lot of this stuff. You know, the crafting movement
really came out of um out of websites dedicated to crafting,
(10:33):
and now we have stuff like etc and UM and Ravelry,
which is a knitting website. UM and you know ininterest
for people share crafts and ideas UM. And then there's
the whole world of blogs, you know, and food blogs
and people sharing recipes and these have created like these
real communities and I think really driven interest and stuff
(10:55):
like you know, do it yourself and from scratch cooking
and UM and and and you know, created these communities
and created you know, a sort of sense of of
aspiration if you look at these you know, neo domestic blogs,
they're so beautiful and you know, everything's photographed so nicely,
(11:16):
and you look at them and even if you're not
at all like domestic or interested in cooking or crafty,
it's kind of hard not to look at some of these,
you know, lifestyle blogs and go oh, you know, I
want that um and uh and I think yeah. On
on the flip side of that, there's just the fact
(11:37):
of the Internet being this, you know, seven technological invasion
of your home that I think a lot of people
want to escape from when they're you know, going back
to basics, like you know, when you're spending your time
doing something tactile like cooking or or knitting or you know,
growing veggies in your backyard. You're making a you know,
(11:59):
del bridge choice to step away from internet culture. Yeah.
Do you think that, Um, And this is just kind
of on a side note that because I feel like
the rise of the quote unquote mommy bloggers almost predated
the popularity of Etsy and Ravelry and these other like
larger communities. And do you think that maybe mom bloggers
(12:22):
in a way sort of and having that platform. Uh,
I don't know, showed the value of housework in a
way that maybe it had been dismissed for a little while.
Is just you know, oh, you're just to stay at
home mom, But now you can actually see all of
these things that they're doing, this incredible food that they're
(12:43):
making and uh, their home designer however they're doing it.
If that makes sense, No, Yeah, I think you you
totally hit it on the head. Um. I think there
has been a movement for for a while, and probably
a little bit predating the Internet, you know, maybe starting
in the nineties, to to reclaim you know, old fashioned
(13:05):
women's work like um, like crafts. I think there's a
big crafting revival that started with sort of the punk
rock riot girl movement in the nineties, with you know,
women saying, hey, like it's cool and punk rock to
do uh crocheting and make your own clothes and stuff
like that, and that sort of grew into a whole
movement to to reclaim the domestic, to reclaim respect for
(13:27):
roum for old fashioned women's work, which you know, had
been very denigrated over the years. If you look at
you know, like Bust magazine, is this you know, sort
of third way feminist magazine that started UM, you know,
running these sort of kitchy pictures of housewives and you know,
how to cleaning articles like in the late nineties early
(13:49):
two thousand's as sort of this big you know, this
this movement to UM to sort of reclaim, reclaim women's
work as something of value. And I think the mom
blogging ended up being part of a big part of
that because a lot of I think a lot of
(14:12):
the reason that women's work has been historically devalued is
because it's invisible. You don't you know, you don't know
what your neighbors dinner looks like. You don't see her
folding her laundry. You don't see any of that stuff.
And so I think that's one of the reasons it
was very hard to be a housewife was because you
didn't get any external validation. And especially you know, once
(14:33):
women started getting educations and started having experience and the
workforce and got used to the external validation of you know,
being in a workplace, they're getting grades in school, I
think a lot of people found it very hard to
not get that anymore. And I think mom blogs um
uh unintentionally ended up becoming this venue for people to
(14:55):
show off there um what they did in the home
and thereby gaining some some validation for it. You know,
like you might cook dinner every night and uh, you know,
maybe your husband and your kids say thank you, maybe
they don't. But if you photograph your dinner and you
put the recipe online, people are going to go, hey,
oh awesome, you know, great recipe, and you're going to
(15:18):
get you're going to get validation. And I think that's
actually this pretty like phenomenal important effective um of mom
blogs and lifestyle blogs because all of a sudden, you know,
this women's work that's been invisible for you know, since
the dawn of time, all of a sudden has this
(15:39):
very public platform. You know, well, it's interesting, like there is.
It reminds me too of of a post that you
had on the website about, um whether or not we're
almost going overboard, Like you know, I think you were
talking to something about going on apartment therapy and wondering
whether or not you should like curtains up, and then
(16:00):
you didn't even want to ask because it's like, now
we're almost to the point where everything you know looks
so perfect online and we have these like aspirational blogs
that we look like look at and pinterest in all
of this. UM So, I wonder if are is there
a danger and especially in talking about this within the
framework of feminism, is there a danger in exalting this
(16:26):
quote unquote women's work too much to where we're back
in the same place we were where, you know, back
to something along the lines of the you know, the
Victorian culture domesticity, where woman's worth is found in what
her home looks like. Well, that's exactly exactly the problem.
You know. On the one hand, of course, you know,
(16:48):
people should be validated for the work they do. On
the other hand, the sort of um, the all the
sharing of of domesticity. UM mind does create a sense
of competition and does there is a sense in which
it raises the bar on a on what it takes
(17:09):
to be a good um, a good housekeeper, good a
good mother, or a good woman. You know, because before
the internet, like you know, the housework wasn't visible. You
didn't know what your neighbor's closet looked like. You didn't
know what your neighbor's dinner looks like. And now you
can go online, you can look at blogs. You can see,
you know, what these strangers are cooking and eating, and
(17:33):
what their kids are wearing, and they keep craft projects
they did and you know, of course this isn't the
full view of their lives, you know, naturally, it's this
completely edited, mediated view of their life that's put on
the blog for public consumption. But I think people have
a hard time reading between the lines there, you know,
(17:54):
because blogs are supposed to be this very authentic, you know,
very personal medium. Yeah, and there becomes we get this
really you know, uncomfortable gray area where um, you know
a lot of bloggers are sort of semi professionals, taking
sort of semi professional pictures of their semi professional cooking
and decorating, and you know, regular people go, oh, you know,
(18:19):
now I feel bad about myself. Why doesn't my food
look like that? Why doesn't my living room look like that? Um?
And it does create a culture in which, you know,
the the whole you know, thousands of women are deaning
this validation for being good housekeepers, which is sort of,
(18:42):
in my mind, uncomfortably close to the whole cult of domesticity.
You know, Um, people are gaining validation from having you know,
the cutest living rooms or the nicest looking dinner. So um. So. Yeah.
On the one hand, I think that, you know, it's
great that people can be validated for the hard work
they do in the home. On the other hand, I
do worry that it the whole culture of lifestyle blogs,
(19:05):
you know, raises the bar for ordinary women who spend
a lot of time looking at semi professional blogs and
feeling bad about themselves and feeling like their self worth
is really tied up and in how well they keep
their home. Yeah, because it also seems to add another
wrinkle to the whole debate that about about whether or
(19:27):
not women can have it all, you know, because for
so long it's been something that's more just you know,
looking for career success in the workplace and yes, childcare
and managing all of that. But now there's sort of
a new, um, a new aspect to it as well.
And I'm just wondering, like when, you know, can we
(19:50):
have the career success in the corner office and also
have our own canned jam that we can bring into
office parties, you know what I mean. Like it seems
like there's so there's so much now, Like it's a
good thing that, uh, women's work is being validated in
a lot of ways, like in terms of the domestic sphere,
But where does this square with work outside of the home?
(20:16):
Right right? Well? Um, you know, I think one of
the big problems is that you know, in in New
domesticity sort of as a movement, um, a lot of
this stuff gets sort of very moralized because it's tied
up with um, you know, questions of consumerism and questions
of environmentalism and questions of what kind of food is
good and safe to eat? Right. So, you know, it's
(20:39):
easy enough when somebody's just knitting for a hobby, but um,
you know, you get it's much more complicated than that.
You get, Um, you know, a lot of talk about well,
you know, you should be cooking from scratch because that's
the way, that's the only way that it's healthy for
your family. And you know, you should would be knowing
(21:00):
your farmer and go into a farmer's market. You should
be buying organic, and you should be you know, growing
your veggies and you know, soaking your grains and doing
all these things because it's the right thing to do
for your children's health, and it's the right thing to
do for the environment and for your local community. And um,
(21:21):
you know, oh you should be you know making your
own cleaning solutions out of vinegar because you know it's
good for the environment. And don't take lazy shortcuts because
that's bad for the environment. And oh, you know, if
you go out and buy things or higher you know,
babysitters to go to the movies, you know, that's sort
of consumerists. I think, Um, I think there's this there's
(21:44):
this huge sort of moralization of the domestic realm, this
idea that your domestic choices can have these huge impacts
on the world. Like of course people are going to
feel like they're never doing it right, you know. Um,
so I think that makes it. You know, women, like
you said, already have a hard enough time trying to
(22:05):
keep things together in terms of job and childcare. And
now there's also the sense that you know, well, you
can't just take a short cut by you know, buying
you know, pre made meals or dropping your kids off
at daycare, because that's somehow you know, im moral, wrong
and and and bad for your children and bad for
(22:27):
the world, you know what I mean. Um, and that
puts a huge amount of pressure on women. UM well,
I'm also really curious about the people that you've met
through this new domesticity research and wondering. I mean, obviously
there's the cornerstone d I y ethic and um, you know,
the embrace of going more natural and slower in a way. Uh,
(22:52):
but have you noticed certain hallmarks of people who are
really drawn and very invested in um these kinds of
of new domesticity, Like what they have in common with
each other? Yeah, if there are any, like I don't know,
any certain types of personality traits I feel like, like,
for instance, like people that I know who are incredibly
(23:14):
crafty are just like very organized and very creative and
and things like that. So I was just wondering, uh,
if you had noticed certain I don't know, shared traits
or anything like that. Well, I'll say that there's a
huge variety of people doing this, and obviously it's not
all women. And I did interview um for my for
(23:35):
my blogging from my book, UM plenty of men, and
that there are people in different socio economic groups and
and different um, sort of political beliefs too. You get
a lot of you know, sort of very conservative Christian
women embracing d I y and natural parenting and that
whole thing, UM, as well as sort of your stereotypical
crunchy liberals. But I will say, UM, I think I
(23:58):
think one of the things that a lot, though not
all of UM of women that are very into new
domesticity have in common is that they are very smart,
generally educated, and really creative, but for one reason or
the other, have not connected with a career. And this
is this doesn't mean they don't have one, you know,
(24:21):
but they might not find it totally satisfying, or it
might be part time, or they might have you know,
left it after their children were born. UM. And I think,
you know, being creative and UM and educated and engaged,
they find you know, engaging a new domesticity, a way
(24:44):
of um, you know, a way of using their energies
and and using their creativity UM in the absence of
a job or the absence of a really satisfying job.
You know. So if you're doing a lot of super
intensive domestic stuff all the time, you know, you're, say,
you're homeschooling your kids, or you're just, um, you have
(25:05):
a huge garden that you're in every day, or you're
sewing your own clothes, or you're you know, you're raising chickens.
That sort of becomes like a career in a sense
for some people, and even people who don't take it
that far. I think, you know, um, even just being
very invested in something like cooking from scratch takes a
lot of time and energy and creativity UM that maybe
(25:28):
you're not using on the job because you are because
you don't have a job, or because you um, you know,
you have a job that's not fully engaging you for
whatever reason. And I think this is even for for
younger women who don't have kids, and for men and everybody.
I think dissatisfaction with the job definitely leads to UM
(25:51):
wanting to do more creative stuff. So if you're sort
of bored in your job, like lots of us are,
you know, especially with the recession and people maybe not
having their dream job, Like, yeah, you want to come
home and you want to you know, do something that
you're engaged with and passionate about. And that's where you know,
raising your bees on the rooftop um and you know,
in crocheting, that's where that kind of stuff comes in
(26:13):
to fill that to fill back gap. Well, speaking of
raising bees on rooftops, was very curious about maybe some
of the more extreme or just intriguing examples of new domesticity,
like you know, like someone washing laundering their own clothes
with you know, an old school washboard, or grinding their
(26:34):
own flower or anything like that. I did not actually
meet anyone who used an old fashioned washboard. That would
be so much work, oh my gosh, but you know what,
I'm sure somebody's doing it. I did meet lots of
people who you know, who hung their clothes to dry um.
But I met let's see, I met a woman in
Brooklyn who was raising rabbits and chickens and bees in
(26:55):
her Brooklyn backyard that was like, you know, the size
of a postage stamp. Um, and that a woman who
had been a web designer and had decided to just
go off grid on our own and was living in
like very rural state New York trying to raise sheep. Um.
I met you know, women that were very into natural mothering,
(27:19):
who you know, had six kids before they were thirty
and we're homeschooling all of them. Um. So yeah, and
people who people who were trying really hard to grow
all their own food. Um. Some people who sewed all
their families clothes. So yeah, I mean you can you
can see how a few know you are really into
(27:41):
new domesticity is like an entire lifestyle. Um, it's a
it's quite time and energy consuming. Yeah, I can help
me imagine. Um. Well, you also you mentioned a few
minutes ago that you also spoke to some men about
news New Domesticity, and I just wanted to know where
(28:01):
they fit into it, because you know, it makes sense
that a lot of the conversation is framed around women
mothers who are very invested in this kind of housekeeping
and and crafting and stuff. But obviously men are are
getting in on this as well. So what what are
they doing in terms of new domesticity. Yeah, I mean
(28:23):
a lot of a lot of the same things really,
um you know. I mean women have historically, um, a
stronger and more complicated relationship with um, with the domestic sphere,
but that's that's changing. And a lot of men, especially
young men, are you know, are also interested in in
d I Y domesticity. I mean tons of men are
(28:46):
you know, really interested in cooking and you know, curing
their own bacon and uh, making stuff from scratch and
pickling and all that stuff in the kitchen. Um you know.
I mean I think men are definitely behind when it
comes to uh, you know, traditional crafts um, which has
been very very female dominated over the years. But plenty
(29:06):
of guys are are into other d I Y type stuff.
I mean, there are there are some guys that are
into knitting. I did interview um a male quilster um
and uh. But you know, guys doing things like you know,
fixing their own bikes and other sorts of of do
(29:27):
it yourself building things around the house than guys who
wanted to build their own houses. Um and uh. And yeah,
when it comes to parenting, I mean, the the whole
natural parenting movement does tend to be very mother centric.
But there are men I talked to who were involved
in and stuff like like home schooling their kids. UM.
(29:52):
And yeah, and then the whole homesteading movement. UM, A
lot of men are into that and a lot of
the people I talked to, UM, they would be couples
and both partners would be involved in the homesteading to
some degree, which you know, if you're going to be
doing something as time consuming is raising animals, you know,
in a suburban backyard, it's a good thing of both
of you are are invested in it. Is there anything
(30:13):
that we didn't touch on about new domesticity or anything
related to that that you would like our listeners to
know about. I mean, I guess I just think, Um,
new domesticity can mean a lot of different different things,
and for some people, you know, some people are just
you know, maybe involved and you know they just happen
(30:34):
to like to knit or craft and it doesn't have
any larger meaning than that. But I think when you
take all these things together, I think it's definitely a
movement to you know, to reclaim you know, some slower
ways of living and uh and live in a more
sustainable way. And it's a reaction to the bad and
(30:54):
you know, um economy and people dissatisfaction with jobs and
just sort of a general unhappiness with the status quo.
Um that's leading people to be interested in everything from
making their own clothes to growing their own food to
you know, homeschool in their kids. So I think, um,
it's a it's a lot of different things that it
(31:16):
means different things for different people. Yeah, it's definitely. It's
it's very interesting to see how, like you you said,
it touches like so many different people with different political
affiliations or might be religious motivations or more secular motivations.
It's just it's kind of fascinating to see how it
(31:37):
appeals to such a broad and diverse group of people. Um. Yeah,
well in my book, I have a whole chapter on them.
I'm the sort of bizarre bedfellows of new domesticity. How
you get stuff like you know, the Amish and uh,
you know, bearded Brooklyn hipsters who are you know, swapping
(32:00):
tips about you know, seeds and growing tomatoes, and you
get you know, very very conservative religious Christian women that
are into natural mothering because it appeals to their sort
of idea. You know of of you know, god given
motherly instinct, and they're doing things like home birthing and homeschooling, um,
cloth stapering and that whole thing, just like the superliberal
(32:23):
country women of Berkeley who are doing it for completely
different reasons. Um. So I think I think that's really fascinating,
this sort of that, you know, red state and blue
state would come together on the domestic front in this way.
So I'd like to go ahead and just thank Emily
(32:43):
so much for talking to us. It was a really
interesting interview. And I do think this whole concept of
new domesticity is fascinating just simply, I mean, like taking
all the rest of it out, just simply for the
fact that so many different types of people subscribe to
this philosophy of I'm going to make things at home,
I'm going to make things myself. I'm going to you know,
(33:03):
provide for my family and myself, uh by making things
with my own hands. Yeah. And it's really fascinating to
me too what what she hits on in terms of
how it's often fueled. It seems like by a general
angst over the pace of our day to day life
and needing to take time away from the hustle and
(33:26):
bustle of twenty one century, living to slow down and
actually make things that we can hold and that we
can eat, and that we can take pictures of and
put on Pinterest. You know, that's the funny part of it.
It's that tension between wanting to get away from it
and yet the Internet fueling it at the same time. So, UM,
(33:47):
I can't wait to hear from folks out there who
are knitters and canners and cooks and chicken raizors New
domesticity folks, I'm sure you know who you are. And again, um,
you can find Emily Matcher's writing all over the Internet
at places like The Washington Post, Salon, Men's Journal, the BBC,
(34:11):
The Hairpin, and other sites as well, and she also
blogs at New Domesticity dot com. And again, Emily Matchew's book,
which is coming out in May, is called Homeward Bound,
The New Cult of Domesticity. It's coming out from Simon
and Schuster, so keep an eye out for that. Again,
thanks so much to Emily, And for folks who want
(34:33):
to send us your thoughts on New domesticity and what
you thought about what Emily had to say, you can
send us an email. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com
is our address. Here is a letter from Joss Kristen.
She wrote in about our dieting and Feminism is episode
and was a little disappointed. Oh man. She says she's
(34:55):
disappointed that neither of us mentioned the idea of Health
at Every Size or h A E F well, not
directly related to feminism. Help It Every Size is a
concept that many fat activists have been advocating. My understanding
of Health It Every Size is that it questions a
lot of commonly held belief surrounding obesity and health, such
as the supposed link between obesity and diabetes. Supporters of
(35:18):
h a e S advocate for eating a balanced diet
and exercising regardless of how much weight loss it may
or may not cause. Linda Bacon's book Help It Every Size,
The Surprising Truth about Your Weight is a good place
to start if you're new to the idea. There's quite
a lot to be said about h a e S
and perhaps worth doing an entire episode on. Yeah, fat
activism is um something that we do need to talk
(35:41):
about at some points, So thanks for the point, Joff. Yeah, absolutely,
and I've got another email here in response to our
episode on whether dating is a feminist issue? And this
is from Kendra, and she writes, I was appropriately enough
working out in the gym when I listened to your
podcast on dieting and feminism, and I got so excited
that I scooted I tush off the elliptical just to
(36:01):
give my opinion on the issue. She says, as recovering interrexic,
I spent most of high school dieting myself to a
very unhealthy b M. I I was able to break
away from the disease in part by making dieting a
feminist issue in my own life. Every time I saw
a calorie count go above six hundred in a day,
I justified it by using the battle cry, and I
(36:22):
will take out the exclutive here, screw the patriarchy. A
few years have passed and I finally feel secure enough
with myself to be able to look at diet and
exercise a bit more objectively. While I still refused to
diet for weight loss, I find that daily exercise helps
me in a number of ways beyond making me fit
into my skinny jeans. I feel more relaxed, a better sleep,
(36:43):
and even have clearer skin. When I work out for
even just thirty minutes a day. Besides, it gives me
a great opportunity to listen to folks like you on
a regular basis. So in summery, while I tend to
disapprove of women dieting just to get skinny because I
worry about them slipping down the same rabbit hole that
I did, I think that women and all should always
do whatever makes them feel like the best version of themselves.
(37:04):
Here here indeed, so thank you Kendra and John and
everyone else who has written into us. Moms Stuff at
Discovery dot com is where you can send your letters,
or you can head over to Facebook and start a
conversation there and like us. While you're at it, you
can tweet us at Mom's Stuff podcast, and you can
also tumble with us on Tumbler Stuff Mom Never Told
(37:25):
You dot tumbler dot com. And again, huge thanks to
Emily Matcher for taking the time to chat with us
about New Domesticity and her new book, Homeward Bound. Please
check it out, And as always, if you would like
to get a little smarter this week, you can head
over to our website, it is how Stuff Works dot
(37:45):
com for more on this and thousands of other topics.
Does it, how stuff works, dot com
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