July 4, 2012 • 28 mins
Everyone's familiar with these unpleasant outbursts, but where do they actually come from? In this episode, Caroline and Cristen examine the science of toddler and teenage temper tantrums, along with tips on tantrum prevention.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff Mom Never told you?
From housetop works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen, So Kristen. As we were
(00:22):
doing research for this temper Tantrums episode, it brought back
a couple of memories for me as a child. Um,
I recall one particular temperate Caroline temper tantrum episode where
I had been disciplined and I didn't like it. I
had no taste for the discipline. I was not a
(00:43):
fan of it, and I was so mad. But I
didn't really know how to tell my parents, like, look,
this doesn't seem fair to me as a child, and
you should really be you know, maybe you shouldn't come
down to be so hard about this, this minor thing.
Um that I ended up picking up a doorstop like
my parents had to one in the guest room and
one like yeah, two in the guest room. Anyway, your
(01:04):
stuff big, but it was shipped like a jack and
it was solid metal, like heavy. I picked it up
and hurled it at the closed door because they put
me in my room. You know, they were like, now
you go in your room. I picked it up, hurled
it against the door, and to this day in my
parents out there is still still a hole in the
(01:25):
back of the door you hulked out. How old were you, shoot,
I don't know. I was really little though, like I was.
But I mean I picked that sucker up. I was
like full of baby adrenaline or something. I don't know
how I was maybe four. Maybe that's a little old
for a TEMPERA tune from Caroline, Oh my god, do
I have some sort of personality disorder? I mean, I
(01:47):
didn't want this to be the podcast where I had
break that news. But no, temper tantrums are completely normal.
They're a normal part of child development. While they are
typically clustered in the twos hence the Terrible Twos, they'll
still spring up from time to time. I still have
(02:10):
temper tantrums. You know something is wrong and I can't
verbalize it. Usually it's that that verbal block, you know. I, um,
I'll pick I will search out metal doorstops as well
and throw them, preferably through plate glass windows. No, I
don't think so, I don't actually do I no, no, UM,
(02:31):
but do you remember how long you are angry? Did
it feel like forever? Or was it kind of a
passing thing. I mean, I am fairly certain that it
was passing, because I remember being so angry in the
moment because I've been disciplined and put in my room.
But I'm pretty sure I threw the thing and poudered
for a minute and then was probably playing with my
barbies or something by the end of it. Yeah, I
(02:53):
was surprised to learn about temper tantrums. Is that the
average one only last three minutes. I mean, it's probably
a very loud and ra ambunctious and unpleasant three minutes.
But Michael Portigal, who is a University of Minnesota pediatric
neurologists who has studied temper tantrums in depth, found that
(03:14):
they usually only last a couple of minutes and ten
minutes later after this outburst, after this huge eruption, kids
have forgotten and they've moved on. Well. I actually have
a lot of admiration for this gentleman because he and
his team listened so closely to recordings of children having
temper tantrums. I don't even like to hear it at
a grocery store where I can walk away, and he
(03:36):
studied them, but he uh yeah, he actually analyzed told
there's tantrums and found a pattern that is really interesting
and makes a lot of sense if you think about it,
that there tends to be this pattern of anger overlapping
with sadness. And a lot of this does have to
do with a communication barrier that we will talk about
in more detail when we get to the science of it.
(03:56):
But um, this whole, this whole sadness anger thing leads
to a three stage tantrum that begins with yelling and screaming,
and kids actually can scream loudly enough to rupture capillaries
and induce vomiting. And it's often a company by sweating, drooling, spitting,
running noses, and pupil dilations. So basically we're dealing with
the exorcist. So you freak out, you have your exorcist moment,
(04:21):
and then you transition to physical actions. This is the kicking,
the biting, the throwing of doorstop, the throwing of doorstops,
and then you kind of fade out into just whimpering
and whining. And I remember that from childhood as well,
kind of feeling exhausted if I pitched a fit afterwards,
you cry so hard. Uh, you just you kind of
(04:42):
just wanna want to sleep for a little bit. Um.
And this is interesting. Protocol found that tantrums don't last
as long if the child will skip the yelling, face
that initial yelling and go straight to the physical stuff.
If he just picks up something and throws it or she, Uh,
then and you might have a shorter tantrum on your hands.
(05:03):
That's the bonus part. Even though they might have to
I feel like the yelling would at least serve as
a warning that you're about to get clocked in the
head with a doorstop. Yeah, maybe you should hope for
the oh man. And then there's that quiet moment right
before the yelling. And anyone who you know parents, or
anyone who has been around small children knows that look
on a child's face where they'll turn beat red and
(05:24):
they don't say anything, but you can see it's like
a tea kettle about to burst. And then screams come,
and then and then the scream and it's just as
sad satisfaces and a lot of times I gotta give
it to parents who are dealing with kids in that
prime stage of the temper tantrum during those terrible twos,
(05:48):
because the thing is a lot of times they might
be societally labeled as bad parents. Like we think of
a child acting out as a sign of poor parenting,
But it's not a sign of poor parenting. It is
a sign of something natural and normal going on inside
of that child's brain. Yeah, there's external environmental conditions that
(06:09):
the kid is dealing with combined with internal neurological maturation issues,
and so Kathleen Strassenberger in her book The Developing Person
through the Lifespan points out that this whole problem of
of temper tantrums originates in the prefrontal cortex, which is
the part of your brain that's right behind the forehead
that regulates social behavior, impulse control, and emotions. Yeah, and um,
(06:33):
as it develops, our emotional responses will become more nuanced.
But here's the thing about the prefrontal cortex. It shows
the most prolonged period of post natal development of any
region of the human brain, and it's responsible for impulse control.
So for years and years and years and years and years,
this part of our brain is still developing and it
(06:56):
controls so many of these kind of negative behaviors. And
on top of that, when you were a toddler, you
don't you can't sit down and say explain to your
parents like you were talking about, Like mom, Dad, I
feel like the punishment does not fit the crime. So
you throw a doorstop. Yeah, they were. They were really
(07:18):
mad about that hole in the door, and I felt
really bad about it, and then I felt guilty every
time I looked at it. But you know why you
probably picked up that doorstop because the stress hormone cortisol
will spike when these kids are trying to when they
have that language block, when they encounter some kind of
barrier and they can't they can't deal, they can't reason
(07:42):
their way out of it, and they can't communicate their
way out of it. So cortisol spikes, which triggers are
fight or flight response, and hence you have the impulse
to do something. But unfortunately, the old prefrontal cortex is
not mature enough to say, hey, maybe you should not
throw doorstop right And then you know, you get older,
(08:03):
you stop throwing doorstops, and then we'll talk about this
a little later. But I think it's funny that basically
the terrible teenage years, it's just another prefrontal cortex growth
spurt temper tantrum stage, right, and so then you're back
to throwing doorstops as like a fifteen year old. And
a lot of times the temper tantrums in children will
(08:24):
fade as the Yes, you've got the development of prefrontal cortex,
but also it's as their language comprehension increases, right, so
they're actually may be able to tell mom, like, I'm
really hungry, maybe you should feed me before we go
to the grocery store. I have to tell myself that too.
And sure there's sometimes when kids need to learn to
(08:45):
do things that they might not want to have to do,
like sit still in a grocery cart when they're being
pushed through the aisles. UM. But I think it is
important for everybody to understand that temper tantrums really are
a a normal behavior and there are ways to mitigate
the chances of them happening, at least on such a
(09:08):
regular basis or in public um. For instance, Dr Tiffany
Cook recommends establishing a routine and being consistent with your
own behavior and reactions, and I think that is applicable
just in general when you stick to a routine, you know,
you know what to expect, and and you won't get
us confused, and I won't and I won't cry in
(09:29):
Trader Joe's if they don't have yogurt covered pretzels. That's
it is terrible when that happens. I've also never done that. Sure,
Um well, it was pointed out a couple of times
that you know, kids haven't developed those language skills, but
they also haven't developed the same comprehension skills, like, for instance,
the example that was used was if you're a little
(09:50):
person in the world who thinks honestly that they are
monsters under your bed and that you have the chance
of getting sucked down the drain when the when the
plug is pulled in the tub, things might seem scary
and your anxiety level might be a little high, like
as adults. You know, I stopped worrying like weeks ago
that I would get stuck down the drain in the tubs,
So I'm totally there's no anxiety anymore. I'm able to
(10:11):
communicate much better, right, Yeah, there's there's a quote from
one of these pediatric experts talking about ten per tantrums
and explaining that toddlers think magically, not rationally or logically exactly. Well.
One other prevention tip is positive reinforcement to reward desired behaviors,
(10:31):
you know, using encouraging words or actual like lollipops or
whatever to make the kids feel good about choosing the
appropriate behavior. So not only maybe demonstrating proper behavior, you know,
role playing to share your kid what they should do,
but also reinforce when they actually do something positive. And also,
I mean there, of course this cannot always be avoided
(10:56):
in the day today and our hectic schedules, but you know,
taking a kid out when he or she is tired
or hungry, you are you know, raising the stakes of
that happening. And then also setting reasonable expectations like how
much can you really expect for from a two year old?
And some have more problems with temper tantrums than others.
(11:17):
And the thing is, it's just gonna happen. Even the
most perfect calm child is going to pitch a fit
at some point. So what do you do, Caroline? You've
got to stay calm um, remain a role model by
doing so. The more attention you give the behavior, the
more likely your child is to repeat it, and I
(11:37):
think a perfect example of when staying calm really works, uh,
and when you should not take your child out when
here she is tired. I was out shopping with my
best gal Jessica and her child, Austin. I don't remember
how old he was at the time, but when we
were leaving the house, he was already clear. He was
very tired, like he was already kind of cranky at home.
But with the promise of going to the toy store,
(11:57):
he parked up. So we were like, okay, he's cool. No, no,
don't be fooled. We got to some clothing store and
he was kind of, you know, horsing around. He got
under those the clothing racks. Yeah, and my friend was like,
don't do that, get out of there, and he kept
doing it. So of course she's like, no, we're leaving,
We're going home right now. That whole like silent turning,
(12:18):
beat red things started to happen, and I start looking around.
I'm like, oh no, oh no, I mean notice spent
by standard in this. So but she stay calm the
whole time. She never yelled, she never raised her voice,
she never caused the scene, and like dragged him out
by his hair. She just took him on the sidewalk,
squatted down, and it's like, we're not doing this right now.
We're gonna go home, we're gonna have a nap in
a snack, and everybody's going to be better. And you
know what, that kid fell asleep in the car on
(12:39):
the way home exactly. Yeah. I was surprised to see
how often, uh, these experts were encouraging parents to even
just ignore tantrum behavior. If you walk away, you let
them scream their little heads off. And because if you
give it too much attention, and even if you punish
(13:00):
that specific behavior, they might interpret it as some kind
of positive reinforcement because they just want attention. And if
they can get attention by throwing themselves on the floor
or pitching some kind of fit, then it's raising mistakes
again that it will happen more often, exactly. And they
point out that you should not use the ignoring technique
if there are bigger problems, like if your kid is
(13:21):
biting everybody else at daycare, or if they're underlying conditions
like hearing or vision problems or learning disabilities. Uh. And
I thought this was interesting to child clinical psychologist Alan
Eksden who's also an expert in temper tantrums, uh says
that you should not bother explaining to a child why
(13:42):
temper tantrums shouldn't happen, don't try to get moral with them,
focused only on that positive behavior, then you'd rather see
and know. And again that's almost a way of just
ignoring the negative behavior and only focusing and reasoning with them, saying, actually,
I would like you to use your words next time.
And this is how I guess I would talk to
(14:05):
my child. Robot mom, l O child. Yeah, and there's
also the use of time outs. I think time outs
are good because it does give them that forced cooling
off period, you know, instead of letting themselves scream into
oblivion and then pass out on the floor in tears.
Just put them in a chair and um, you know,
they recommend a specific chair or a specific corner or whatever,
(14:28):
so it's it's kind of in their mind connected with Okay,
I've got a chill out. And actually I thought it
was interesting that they recommend one minute of time out
for each year of age. It's not much, but maybe
it's because again, the average duration of a tantrum only
three minutes. I mean, I say only. I'm sure parents
who are listening to this are like, are these women crazy? This?
(14:48):
Is this the worst three minutes ever? Probably feels like
an hour. Uh. And of course, temper tantrum behavior can
also become problematic. Typically UM, when the free quincy and
duration of tantrums escalate to three or more tantrums per
day lasting more than fifteen minutes, it could qualify as
(15:09):
disordered behavior. Right. And some of the red flags for
this behavior coming from the American Academy of Pediatrics. Uh.
They point to an increase in tant terms after age four,
So I really hope my doorstop throwing was before age four. Uh.
Deliberate attempts to injure themselves, others, or property, holding their
breath until they faint, exhibiting signs of mental disturbance such
(15:31):
as recurring nightmares, refusal to potty train, and intensive separation anxiety.
And that supports the findings of a two thousand seven
study published in Pediatrics, which basically said that healthy kids
are less likely to even when they do get upset
like this, they're less likely to grow violent, injure themselves,
destroy things, or become verbally combative. But if we have
(15:56):
now freaked out. All the parents of young children out
there who have had crazy tan terms before, don't worry
about of quote unquote, mentally stable preschoolers exhibit this behavior
periodically if they're a mentally stable preschooler. Yeah, sure, says
the childless woman who gets to hang out with her
(16:17):
you know, nieces and nephews and then hand them back
because they're in great moods. Usually when I come around,
you know, it's it's rare for me to see any
kind of tantrum behavior. Um. But there was some controversy
that's come up recently around more extreme temper tantrum behavior,
and it's all due to the fifth edition of the
(16:39):
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders that is coming
out in May, is published by the American Psychiatric Association,
and essentially the d s M is the handbook for
diagnosing psychiatric and psychological disorders. And there has been a
proposed addition of disruptive mood disregulation disorder, which is essentially
(17:06):
extreme temper tantrums and children older than six that would
be classified as a mental illness, right, and they point
out that it's distinguished from pediatric bipolar disorder, which is
a completely different, different condition. But a lot of clinicians
are taking issue with this proposed change because they're concerned
that this is pathologizing behavior that could lead to even
(17:30):
more kids on antidepressants and antipsychotic drugs. Because I don't
have the exact numbers in front of me, but the
rates of pediatric bipolar disorder diagnoses and um adolescent depression
diagnoses have skyrocketed in the past decade, and so some
doctors are saying, hey, are we just are we really
(17:51):
going to turn every unpleasant behavior into some kind of
mental illness? Nabe Parents that are just more and more
don't want to deal with it, possibly, and so they're like,
oh my god, my kid is screaming in the grocery
store noticin Yeah, I mean, and that's the question you
know to turn to parents out there. I mean, is
that is that something that comes up when you're talking
(18:11):
to other parents? Although I have a feeling that might
be more of like a quiet secret that you keep
to yourself that you wish you could give your child.
An anti temper tantrum pill would not be magical. I
would like to take. I would take an adult temper
anti temper tantrum pill, you know, t again so that
I wouldn't have to cry and Trader Joe's anymore exactly. Yeah,
(18:31):
I would like to have a double dose anytime I move,
because that's the last time I threw like a major,
major fit, and I just I just kind of I
did the silent thing, like I just stopped everything I
was doing and turned around and looked at my mother
and just started crying and kind of put my head
on her shoulder. It happens to me too, you know,
And that when the when the prefrontal cortext kind of
(18:52):
shuts down for a second, they're like, we're going to
take a little break in the cortisol. The cortisol spikes.
You just sometimes you just need to um. And the
thing is, temper tantrums will also, as you hinted at earlier,
Caroline role background not so surprising during the teen years,
because speaking of the PFC, it goes through yet another
(19:14):
growth spurt in the brain. It does. San Diego State
University neurologists found that right around the time the puberty starts,
kids actually lose the ability to quickly recognize other people's emotions.
So all of a sudden, around age eleven, everything's confusing.
Social situations are awkward, You don't you're not thinking as
much about what other people are thinking, and it starts
(19:38):
to get better, Like the little fraggles in your brain
are like sticking everything back together in the prefrontal prefrontal
cortex that they have just remodeled. And by the time
you're eighteen and ready to go off to college, you're
relatively speaking back to normal. But it takes eighteen years
for the PFC to really mature. And that's uh. I
(19:58):
think it's really fast inating that the one one piece
of your brain that controls so much social behavior is
under construction for so long, Like you think the evolution
could have maybe, I don't know, done something to just
being that process up so that we don't have to
go through so many phases of being just jerks when
(20:19):
we're under age. And also take into account to not
only do you have this brain remodeling going on during
the teen years, but also hello, puberty hormones. Could the
world be more confusing? And you have words, which means
that you then therefore have an explanation for why so
much bad poetry exists. In my high school diaries, I
(20:45):
wrote terrible poetry, and it was all my gs cities website,
and that stuff was eliminated to the cities. You didn't
even give me a chance to archive it. Yeah. Mine,
mine is fortunately or or unfortunately, I don't know, as
archived in hard copies of diaries and yeah, just volumes
(21:06):
of sad poetry. Yeah. Well, I I just thought the
link was so interesting because I never really thought of
the teenage years as another temper tantrum phase. I mean,
I just thought, you know, kids are jerks. What do
you think about teen angst and teen rebellion. Yeah, it's
because nothing is making sense to them anymore. Everything's confusing.
They're growing up, they're all hormonal. They like people, they
have crushes, and they just can't figure stuff out. And
(21:29):
you know, parents just don't understand. They don't they don't understand.
They don't understand that. Yeah, you have all of that
going on, and the expectations for how they should be,
you know, teens should be more responsible for themselves, and
rightly so, but still that can that can certainly be
a lot, At least it was for me. Well yeah,
and I mean they've got the whole impulse of behavior
thing going on. You know, the poor decision making skills
(21:50):
and all that stuff. So it's it's like you have
a toddler again, and that's the toddler that can drive
to how about that? So this this time this this
episode can be alternately titled how to terrify anyone who's
thinking about about having a child from having a child.
It is terrifying, but at least it's comforting to know
(22:13):
that it's normal and natural. And yeah, some kids might
be more prone to have like horrific temper tantrums. I
will not name any children. Alright, alright, doorstop, alright, doorstop.
Uh yeah, I was just gonna not mention that again. Um,
but it is a normal part of childhood. And you
might have a very happy baby who grows into a
(22:35):
very happy toddler who just happens to have a bunch
of meltdowns. Yeah. Yeah, and yeah, in a way, writing
it was it was relieving because it does give and
offer an explanation for behavior that is usually you know,
you get the finger wag from people saying, you know,
quiet down your toddler. Yeah, well, so okay, you get
a good year after they're born. You get a good year,
(22:57):
and then you get like three or so years of
just awful and then about seven of pretty good. Yeah,
and then they're off of college, so no more worries.
Really we should write a parenting guy should I'll put
that up pampoo. So that is how temper tantrums work.
It's all about the prefrontal cortex and cortisol and it's
(23:20):
totally normal behavior, although of course if it gets too
bad then you could have some kind of disorder on
your hand, or like you said, the underlying signs of
learning disabilities or hearing problems, things like that. So now
it's tiging to turn it over to our parents out there.
How do you deal with temper tantrums? I mean, are
(23:41):
we making it seem like no big deal? Are we
oversimplifying this thing? Um? Do you get judged by parents
or other people in public if your child hasn't meltdown?
Let us know your thoughts. Mom. Stuff at Discovery dot
com is where you can send all of your letters
and stories that we would love to hear. And in
the meantime, I've got a letter here from Cynthia on
(24:05):
a podcast we did a while ago on do Doctors
Listen to Women? Now? Cynthia's story is pretty epic, So
I'll give you. I'll give you the nuts and bolts,
all right. So she's about nineteen years old. She says,
I visited a new doctor after moving to a new state,
and upon looking at my history before he'd even spoken
to me, he diagnosed me with polycystic ovarian syndrome. He
(24:28):
stuck with his diagnosis even after an internal ultrasound refuted
his conclusion and looked no further. But her health problems
continued and she said I want to see a doctor
for cluster headaches. She decided that I had allergic signing
side us and sent me home with some antibiotics and
an allergy medication. When a few days later I could
(24:50):
barely even open my eyes and called her office in
an attempt to get an m R. I referral. After
arguing with her entire staff until I got to her personally,
and after some more arguing, I had my referral. It
turned out that I had a gigantic brain humor and
a prognosis of six week weeks to live if it
went untreated. I was transferred to a different hospital via
(25:11):
ambulance from emergency surgery. I am now going on thirty
three and on disability, but very much alive now at
nearly thirty four. I advocate on behalf of others when
I can, and take any opportunity which presents itself to
remind people that their doctor is their employee, not God,
and that they the patient, are in charge and get
to decide when they're satisfied with a diagnosis and when
(25:32):
enough diagnostics have been done. It's incredibly important that women
be more vocal and remember who is paying whom be
your own advocate. So scary story from Cynthia, and I'm
glad to hear that she is doing better. Okay, this
is from Angela about our Sex Talk podcast. She said
that during this episode, you made the comment that perhaps
(25:53):
it's easier to talk to your mom than your dad
if you're a girl. But from my personal experience, I
had a much easier time talking to my father rather
than my mother. My mother never actually had the talk
with me. When I hit twelve, she gave me these
books that were published in nineteen that discussed how the
human body matured, how girls had their periods, what happened
to boys and sex. I learned through these outdated books
(26:15):
and from school, I was afraid of the whole thing,
and I never went to my mom. My mom had
me before she turned nineteen, so I wonder if that's
what made her afraid. I started my period at my
father's house. My stepmother tried, but it was my dad
who told me that it was okay, that I wasn't sick,
that it was natural, and then it just meant that
I was growing up. He explained what it was for,
and then eventually, when I wanted it to, I could
probably have kids because of having my period. Fast forward
(26:38):
to when I had a boyfriend. My dad is the
one who asked me how far I was getting with
him and whether we were approaching sex. I was frank
and forward with him, and my dad basically warned me
that if I wanted to, it was fine, just to
protect myself, but he also told me that if I
didn't want to for whatever reason, then I should stick
to that and do it was best for me. When
the big event finally did happen, my dad was the
first one to figure it out. He trusted my decision.
(27:00):
The knew that I trusted the guy who is now
my husband. So despite the fact that there was this
awkwardness talking to my dad, I'm grateful that I had
that sounding board. My husband didn't have one and found
it very difficult to approach this topic for the first
time with every girlfriend he's had. So thanks to everybody
who's written in mom Stuff at Discovery dot Com is
where you can send your letters, and you can also
(27:20):
find us on Facebook, where I would also like to
thank everyone who pushed us over the ten thousand fandom mark.
That was very exciting. That's that's crowds cheering, not just
us breathing. I mean it is. And you can also
follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, and you
(27:41):
can read how Temper Tantrum's work by me Kristen Gager
at how stuff works dot com for more on this
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(28:01):
thousand twelve Camri. It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff Mom Never told you?
From housetop works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen, So Kristen. As we were
(00:22):
doing research for this temper Tantrums episode, it brought back
a couple of memories for me as a child. Um,
I recall one particular temperate Caroline temper tantrum episode where
I had been disciplined and I didn't like it. I
had no taste for the discipline. I was not a
(00:43):
fan of it, and I was so mad. But I
didn't really know how to tell my parents, like, look,
this doesn't seem fair to me as a child, and
you should really be you know, maybe you shouldn't come
down to be so hard about this, this minor thing.
Um that I ended up picking up a doorstop like
my parents had to one in the guest room and
one like yeah, two in the guest room. Anyway, your
(01:04):
stuff big, but it was shipped like a jack and
it was solid metal, like heavy. I picked it up
and hurled it at the closed door because they put
me in my room. You know, they were like, now
you go in your room. I picked it up, hurled
it against the door, and to this day in my
parents out there is still still a hole in the
(01:25):
back of the door you hulked out. How old were you, shoot,
I don't know. I was really little though, like I was.
But I mean I picked that sucker up. I was
like full of baby adrenaline or something. I don't know
how I was maybe four. Maybe that's a little old
for a TEMPERA tune from Caroline, Oh my god, do
I have some sort of personality disorder? I mean, I
(01:47):
didn't want this to be the podcast where I had
break that news. But no, temper tantrums are completely normal.
They're a normal part of child development. While they are
typically clustered in the twos hence the Terrible Twos, they'll
still spring up from time to time. I still have
(02:10):
temper tantrums. You know something is wrong and I can't
verbalize it. Usually it's that that verbal block, you know. I, um,
I'll pick I will search out metal doorstops as well
and throw them, preferably through plate glass windows. No, I
don't think so, I don't actually do I no, no, UM,
(02:31):
but do you remember how long you are angry? Did
it feel like forever? Or was it kind of a
passing thing. I mean, I am fairly certain that it
was passing, because I remember being so angry in the
moment because I've been disciplined and put in my room.
But I'm pretty sure I threw the thing and poudered
for a minute and then was probably playing with my
barbies or something by the end of it. Yeah, I
(02:53):
was surprised to learn about temper tantrums. Is that the
average one only last three minutes. I mean, it's probably
a very loud and ra ambunctious and unpleasant three minutes.
But Michael Portigal, who is a University of Minnesota pediatric
neurologists who has studied temper tantrums in depth, found that
(03:14):
they usually only last a couple of minutes and ten
minutes later after this outburst, after this huge eruption, kids
have forgotten and they've moved on. Well. I actually have
a lot of admiration for this gentleman because he and
his team listened so closely to recordings of children having
temper tantrums. I don't even like to hear it at
a grocery store where I can walk away, and he
(03:36):
studied them, but he uh yeah, he actually analyzed told
there's tantrums and found a pattern that is really interesting
and makes a lot of sense if you think about it,
that there tends to be this pattern of anger overlapping
with sadness. And a lot of this does have to
do with a communication barrier that we will talk about
in more detail when we get to the science of it.
(03:56):
But um, this whole, this whole sadness anger thing leads
to a three stage tantrum that begins with yelling and screaming,
and kids actually can scream loudly enough to rupture capillaries
and induce vomiting. And it's often a company by sweating, drooling, spitting,
running noses, and pupil dilations. So basically we're dealing with
the exorcist. So you freak out, you have your exorcist moment,
(04:21):
and then you transition to physical actions. This is the kicking,
the biting, the throwing of doorstop, the throwing of doorstops,
and then you kind of fade out into just whimpering
and whining. And I remember that from childhood as well,
kind of feeling exhausted if I pitched a fit afterwards,
you cry so hard. Uh, you just you kind of
(04:42):
just wanna want to sleep for a little bit. Um.
And this is interesting. Protocol found that tantrums don't last
as long if the child will skip the yelling, face
that initial yelling and go straight to the physical stuff.
If he just picks up something and throws it or she, Uh,
then and you might have a shorter tantrum on your hands.
(05:03):
That's the bonus part. Even though they might have to
I feel like the yelling would at least serve as
a warning that you're about to get clocked in the
head with a doorstop. Yeah, maybe you should hope for
the oh man. And then there's that quiet moment right
before the yelling. And anyone who you know parents, or
anyone who has been around small children knows that look
on a child's face where they'll turn beat red and
(05:24):
they don't say anything, but you can see it's like
a tea kettle about to burst. And then screams come,
and then and then the scream and it's just as
sad satisfaces and a lot of times I gotta give
it to parents who are dealing with kids in that
prime stage of the temper tantrum during those terrible twos,
(05:48):
because the thing is a lot of times they might
be societally labeled as bad parents. Like we think of
a child acting out as a sign of poor parenting,
But it's not a sign of poor parenting. It is
a sign of something natural and normal going on inside
of that child's brain. Yeah, there's external environmental conditions that
(06:09):
the kid is dealing with combined with internal neurological maturation issues,
and so Kathleen Strassenberger in her book The Developing Person
through the Lifespan points out that this whole problem of
of temper tantrums originates in the prefrontal cortex, which is
the part of your brain that's right behind the forehead
that regulates social behavior, impulse control, and emotions. Yeah, and um,
(06:33):
as it develops, our emotional responses will become more nuanced.
But here's the thing about the prefrontal cortex. It shows
the most prolonged period of post natal development of any
region of the human brain, and it's responsible for impulse control.
So for years and years and years and years and years,
this part of our brain is still developing and it
(06:56):
controls so many of these kind of negative behaviors. And
on top of that, when you were a toddler, you
don't you can't sit down and say explain to your
parents like you were talking about, Like mom, Dad, I
feel like the punishment does not fit the crime. So
you throw a doorstop. Yeah, they were. They were really
(07:18):
mad about that hole in the door, and I felt
really bad about it, and then I felt guilty every
time I looked at it. But you know why you
probably picked up that doorstop because the stress hormone cortisol
will spike when these kids are trying to when they
have that language block, when they encounter some kind of
barrier and they can't they can't deal, they can't reason
(07:42):
their way out of it, and they can't communicate their
way out of it. So cortisol spikes, which triggers are
fight or flight response, and hence you have the impulse
to do something. But unfortunately, the old prefrontal cortex is
not mature enough to say, hey, maybe you should not
throw doorstop right And then you know, you get older,
(08:03):
you stop throwing doorstops, and then we'll talk about this
a little later. But I think it's funny that basically
the terrible teenage years, it's just another prefrontal cortex growth
spurt temper tantrum stage, right, and so then you're back
to throwing doorstops as like a fifteen year old. And
a lot of times the temper tantrums in children will
(08:24):
fade as the Yes, you've got the development of prefrontal cortex,
but also it's as their language comprehension increases, right, so
they're actually may be able to tell mom, like, I'm
really hungry, maybe you should feed me before we go
to the grocery store. I have to tell myself that too.
And sure there's sometimes when kids need to learn to
(08:45):
do things that they might not want to have to do,
like sit still in a grocery cart when they're being
pushed through the aisles. UM. But I think it is
important for everybody to understand that temper tantrums really are
a a normal behavior and there are ways to mitigate
the chances of them happening, at least on such a
(09:08):
regular basis or in public um. For instance, Dr Tiffany
Cook recommends establishing a routine and being consistent with your
own behavior and reactions, and I think that is applicable
just in general when you stick to a routine, you know,
you know what to expect, and and you won't get
us confused, and I won't and I won't cry in
(09:29):
Trader Joe's if they don't have yogurt covered pretzels. That's
it is terrible when that happens. I've also never done that. Sure,
Um well, it was pointed out a couple of times
that you know, kids haven't developed those language skills, but
they also haven't developed the same comprehension skills, like, for instance,
the example that was used was if you're a little
(09:50):
person in the world who thinks honestly that they are
monsters under your bed and that you have the chance
of getting sucked down the drain when the when the
plug is pulled in the tub, things might seem scary
and your anxiety level might be a little high, like
as adults. You know, I stopped worrying like weeks ago
that I would get stuck down the drain in the tubs,
So I'm totally there's no anxiety anymore. I'm able to
(10:11):
communicate much better, right, Yeah, there's there's a quote from
one of these pediatric experts talking about ten per tantrums
and explaining that toddlers think magically, not rationally or logically exactly. Well.
One other prevention tip is positive reinforcement to reward desired behaviors,
(10:31):
you know, using encouraging words or actual like lollipops or
whatever to make the kids feel good about choosing the
appropriate behavior. So not only maybe demonstrating proper behavior, you know,
role playing to share your kid what they should do,
but also reinforce when they actually do something positive. And also,
I mean there, of course this cannot always be avoided
(10:56):
in the day today and our hectic schedules, but you know,
taking a kid out when he or she is tired
or hungry, you are you know, raising the stakes of
that happening. And then also setting reasonable expectations like how
much can you really expect for from a two year old?
And some have more problems with temper tantrums than others.
(11:17):
And the thing is, it's just gonna happen. Even the
most perfect calm child is going to pitch a fit
at some point. So what do you do, Caroline? You've
got to stay calm um, remain a role model by
doing so. The more attention you give the behavior, the
more likely your child is to repeat it, and I
(11:37):
think a perfect example of when staying calm really works, uh,
and when you should not take your child out when
here she is tired. I was out shopping with my
best gal Jessica and her child, Austin. I don't remember
how old he was at the time, but when we
were leaving the house, he was already clear. He was
very tired, like he was already kind of cranky at home.
But with the promise of going to the toy store,
(11:57):
he parked up. So we were like, okay, he's cool. No, no,
don't be fooled. We got to some clothing store and
he was kind of, you know, horsing around. He got
under those the clothing racks. Yeah, and my friend was like,
don't do that, get out of there, and he kept
doing it. So of course she's like, no, we're leaving,
We're going home right now. That whole like silent turning,
(12:18):
beat red things started to happen, and I start looking around.
I'm like, oh no, oh no, I mean notice spent
by standard in this. So but she stay calm the
whole time. She never yelled, she never raised her voice,
she never caused the scene, and like dragged him out
by his hair. She just took him on the sidewalk,
squatted down, and it's like, we're not doing this right now.
We're gonna go home, we're gonna have a nap in
a snack, and everybody's going to be better. And you
know what, that kid fell asleep in the car on
(12:39):
the way home exactly. Yeah. I was surprised to see
how often, uh, these experts were encouraging parents to even
just ignore tantrum behavior. If you walk away, you let
them scream their little heads off. And because if you
give it too much attention, and even if you punish
(13:00):
that specific behavior, they might interpret it as some kind
of positive reinforcement because they just want attention. And if
they can get attention by throwing themselves on the floor
or pitching some kind of fit, then it's raising mistakes
again that it will happen more often, exactly. And they
point out that you should not use the ignoring technique
if there are bigger problems, like if your kid is
(13:21):
biting everybody else at daycare, or if they're underlying conditions
like hearing or vision problems or learning disabilities. Uh. And
I thought this was interesting to child clinical psychologist Alan
Eksden who's also an expert in temper tantrums, uh says
that you should not bother explaining to a child why
(13:42):
temper tantrums shouldn't happen, don't try to get moral with them,
focused only on that positive behavior, then you'd rather see
and know. And again that's almost a way of just
ignoring the negative behavior and only focusing and reasoning with them, saying, actually,
I would like you to use your words next time.
And this is how I guess I would talk to
(14:05):
my child. Robot mom, l O child. Yeah, and there's
also the use of time outs. I think time outs
are good because it does give them that forced cooling
off period, you know, instead of letting themselves scream into
oblivion and then pass out on the floor in tears.
Just put them in a chair and um, you know,
they recommend a specific chair or a specific corner or whatever,
(14:28):
so it's it's kind of in their mind connected with Okay,
I've got a chill out. And actually I thought it
was interesting that they recommend one minute of time out
for each year of age. It's not much, but maybe
it's because again, the average duration of a tantrum only
three minutes. I mean, I say only. I'm sure parents
who are listening to this are like, are these women crazy? This?
(14:48):
Is this the worst three minutes ever? Probably feels like
an hour. Uh. And of course, temper tantrum behavior can
also become problematic. Typically UM, when the free quincy and
duration of tantrums escalate to three or more tantrums per
day lasting more than fifteen minutes, it could qualify as
(15:09):
disordered behavior. Right. And some of the red flags for
this behavior coming from the American Academy of Pediatrics. Uh.
They point to an increase in tant terms after age four,
So I really hope my doorstop throwing was before age four. Uh.
Deliberate attempts to injure themselves, others, or property, holding their
breath until they faint, exhibiting signs of mental disturbance such
(15:31):
as recurring nightmares, refusal to potty train, and intensive separation anxiety.
And that supports the findings of a two thousand seven
study published in Pediatrics, which basically said that healthy kids
are less likely to even when they do get upset
like this, they're less likely to grow violent, injure themselves,
destroy things, or become verbally combative. But if we have
(15:56):
now freaked out. All the parents of young children out
there who have had crazy tan terms before, don't worry
about of quote unquote, mentally stable preschoolers exhibit this behavior
periodically if they're a mentally stable preschooler. Yeah, sure, says
the childless woman who gets to hang out with her
(16:17):
you know, nieces and nephews and then hand them back
because they're in great moods. Usually when I come around,
you know, it's it's rare for me to see any
kind of tantrum behavior. Um. But there was some controversy
that's come up recently around more extreme temper tantrum behavior,
and it's all due to the fifth edition of the
(16:39):
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders that is coming
out in May, is published by the American Psychiatric Association,
and essentially the d s M is the handbook for
diagnosing psychiatric and psychological disorders. And there has been a
proposed addition of disruptive mood disregulation disorder, which is essentially
(17:06):
extreme temper tantrums and children older than six that would
be classified as a mental illness, right, and they point
out that it's distinguished from pediatric bipolar disorder, which is
a completely different, different condition. But a lot of clinicians
are taking issue with this proposed change because they're concerned
that this is pathologizing behavior that could lead to even
(17:30):
more kids on antidepressants and antipsychotic drugs. Because I don't
have the exact numbers in front of me, but the
rates of pediatric bipolar disorder diagnoses and um adolescent depression
diagnoses have skyrocketed in the past decade, and so some
doctors are saying, hey, are we just are we really
(17:51):
going to turn every unpleasant behavior into some kind of
mental illness? Nabe Parents that are just more and more
don't want to deal with it, possibly, and so they're like,
oh my god, my kid is screaming in the grocery
store noticin Yeah, I mean, and that's the question you
know to turn to parents out there. I mean, is
that is that something that comes up when you're talking
(18:11):
to other parents? Although I have a feeling that might
be more of like a quiet secret that you keep
to yourself that you wish you could give your child.
An anti temper tantrum pill would not be magical. I
would like to take. I would take an adult temper
anti temper tantrum pill, you know, t again so that
I wouldn't have to cry and Trader Joe's anymore exactly. Yeah,
(18:31):
I would like to have a double dose anytime I move,
because that's the last time I threw like a major,
major fit, and I just I just kind of I
did the silent thing, like I just stopped everything I
was doing and turned around and looked at my mother
and just started crying and kind of put my head
on her shoulder. It happens to me too, you know,
And that when the when the prefrontal cortext kind of
(18:52):
shuts down for a second, they're like, we're going to
take a little break in the cortisol. The cortisol spikes.
You just sometimes you just need to um. And the
thing is, temper tantrums will also, as you hinted at earlier,
Caroline role background not so surprising during the teen years,
because speaking of the PFC, it goes through yet another
(19:14):
growth spurt in the brain. It does. San Diego State
University neurologists found that right around the time the puberty starts,
kids actually lose the ability to quickly recognize other people's emotions.
So all of a sudden, around age eleven, everything's confusing.
Social situations are awkward, You don't you're not thinking as
much about what other people are thinking, and it starts
(19:38):
to get better, Like the little fraggles in your brain
are like sticking everything back together in the prefrontal prefrontal
cortex that they have just remodeled. And by the time
you're eighteen and ready to go off to college, you're
relatively speaking back to normal. But it takes eighteen years
for the PFC to really mature. And that's uh. I
(19:58):
think it's really fast inating that the one one piece
of your brain that controls so much social behavior is
under construction for so long, Like you think the evolution
could have maybe, I don't know, done something to just
being that process up so that we don't have to
go through so many phases of being just jerks when
(20:19):
we're under age. And also take into account to not
only do you have this brain remodeling going on during
the teen years, but also hello, puberty hormones. Could the
world be more confusing? And you have words, which means
that you then therefore have an explanation for why so
much bad poetry exists. In my high school diaries, I
(20:45):
wrote terrible poetry, and it was all my gs cities website,
and that stuff was eliminated to the cities. You didn't
even give me a chance to archive it. Yeah. Mine,
mine is fortunately or or unfortunately, I don't know, as
archived in hard copies of diaries and yeah, just volumes
(21:06):
of sad poetry. Yeah. Well, I I just thought the
link was so interesting because I never really thought of
the teenage years as another temper tantrum phase. I mean,
I just thought, you know, kids are jerks. What do
you think about teen angst and teen rebellion. Yeah, it's
because nothing is making sense to them anymore. Everything's confusing.
They're growing up, they're all hormonal. They like people, they
have crushes, and they just can't figure stuff out. And
(21:29):
you know, parents just don't understand. They don't they don't understand.
They don't understand that. Yeah, you have all of that
going on, and the expectations for how they should be,
you know, teens should be more responsible for themselves, and
rightly so, but still that can that can certainly be
a lot, At least it was for me. Well yeah,
and I mean they've got the whole impulse of behavior
thing going on. You know, the poor decision making skills
(21:50):
and all that stuff. So it's it's like you have
a toddler again, and that's the toddler that can drive
to how about that? So this this time this this
episode can be alternately titled how to terrify anyone who's
thinking about about having a child from having a child.
It is terrifying, but at least it's comforting to know
(22:13):
that it's normal and natural. And yeah, some kids might
be more prone to have like horrific temper tantrums. I
will not name any children. Alright, alright, doorstop, alright, doorstop.
Uh yeah, I was just gonna not mention that again. Um,
but it is a normal part of childhood. And you
might have a very happy baby who grows into a
(22:35):
very happy toddler who just happens to have a bunch
of meltdowns. Yeah. Yeah, and yeah, in a way, writing
it was it was relieving because it does give and
offer an explanation for behavior that is usually you know,
you get the finger wag from people saying, you know,
quiet down your toddler. Yeah, well, so okay, you get
a good year after they're born. You get a good year,
(22:57):
and then you get like three or so years of
just awful and then about seven of pretty good. Yeah,
and then they're off of college, so no more worries.
Really we should write a parenting guy should I'll put
that up pampoo. So that is how temper tantrums work.
It's all about the prefrontal cortex and cortisol and it's
(23:20):
totally normal behavior, although of course if it gets too
bad then you could have some kind of disorder on
your hand, or like you said, the underlying signs of
learning disabilities or hearing problems, things like that. So now
it's tiging to turn it over to our parents out there.
How do you deal with temper tantrums? I mean, are
(23:41):
we making it seem like no big deal? Are we
oversimplifying this thing? Um? Do you get judged by parents
or other people in public if your child hasn't meltdown?
Let us know your thoughts. Mom. Stuff at Discovery dot
com is where you can send all of your letters
and stories that we would love to hear. And in
the meantime, I've got a letter here from Cynthia on
(24:05):
a podcast we did a while ago on do Doctors
Listen to Women? Now? Cynthia's story is pretty epic, So
I'll give you. I'll give you the nuts and bolts,
all right. So she's about nineteen years old. She says,
I visited a new doctor after moving to a new state,
and upon looking at my history before he'd even spoken
to me, he diagnosed me with polycystic ovarian syndrome. He
(24:28):
stuck with his diagnosis even after an internal ultrasound refuted
his conclusion and looked no further. But her health problems
continued and she said I want to see a doctor
for cluster headaches. She decided that I had allergic signing
side us and sent me home with some antibiotics and
an allergy medication. When a few days later I could
(24:50):
barely even open my eyes and called her office in
an attempt to get an m R. I referral. After
arguing with her entire staff until I got to her personally,
and after some more arguing, I had my referral. It
turned out that I had a gigantic brain humor and
a prognosis of six week weeks to live if it
went untreated. I was transferred to a different hospital via
(25:11):
ambulance from emergency surgery. I am now going on thirty
three and on disability, but very much alive now at
nearly thirty four. I advocate on behalf of others when
I can, and take any opportunity which presents itself to
remind people that their doctor is their employee, not God,
and that they the patient, are in charge and get
to decide when they're satisfied with a diagnosis and when
(25:32):
enough diagnostics have been done. It's incredibly important that women
be more vocal and remember who is paying whom be
your own advocate. So scary story from Cynthia, and I'm
glad to hear that she is doing better. Okay, this
is from Angela about our Sex Talk podcast. She said
that during this episode, you made the comment that perhaps
(25:53):
it's easier to talk to your mom than your dad
if you're a girl. But from my personal experience, I
had a much easier time talking to my father rather
than my mother. My mother never actually had the talk
with me. When I hit twelve, she gave me these
books that were published in nineteen that discussed how the
human body matured, how girls had their periods, what happened
to boys and sex. I learned through these outdated books
(26:15):
and from school, I was afraid of the whole thing,
and I never went to my mom. My mom had
me before she turned nineteen, so I wonder if that's
what made her afraid. I started my period at my
father's house. My stepmother tried, but it was my dad
who told me that it was okay, that I wasn't sick,
that it was natural, and then it just meant that
I was growing up. He explained what it was for,
and then eventually, when I wanted it to, I could
probably have kids because of having my period. Fast forward
(26:38):
to when I had a boyfriend. My dad is the
one who asked me how far I was getting with
him and whether we were approaching sex. I was frank
and forward with him, and my dad basically warned me
that if I wanted to, it was fine, just to
protect myself, but he also told me that if I
didn't want to for whatever reason, then I should stick
to that and do it was best for me. When
the big event finally did happen, my dad was the
first one to figure it out. He trusted my decision.
(27:00):
The knew that I trusted the guy who is now
my husband. So despite the fact that there was this
awkwardness talking to my dad, I'm grateful that I had
that sounding board. My husband didn't have one and found
it very difficult to approach this topic for the first
time with every girlfriend he's had. So thanks to everybody
who's written in mom Stuff at Discovery dot Com is
where you can send your letters, and you can also
(27:20):
find us on Facebook, where I would also like to
thank everyone who pushed us over the ten thousand fandom mark.
That was very exciting. That's that's crowds cheering, not just
us breathing. I mean it is. And you can also
follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, and you
(27:41):
can read how Temper Tantrum's work by me Kristen Gager
at how stuff works dot com for more on this
and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works
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