February 7, 2018 • 42 mins
Horoscopes have been labeled “millennial spirituality” and are taking over the internet. What gives?!
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Emily and you're listening to stuff Mom
never told you. Now. Before we jump into today's topic,
which Bridget and I are so excited about. Quite frankly,
(00:26):
I wanted to give a little shout out and an
invitation to you all who have been waiting for us
to host some kind of meet up. I'm really excited
to be co hosting an event in Denver, Colorado, my
new city of residents, in case you hadn't heard the
news yet. I sneak back to d C all the
time to hang out with Bridget, but I actually live
(00:46):
in Denver now and we miss her so much. Not
that you can keep me away, but we are really
excited to be teaming up with Cat Jaffee of House
of Pod to be hosting an awesome meet up event.
It's gonna be totally free and I'm going to be
there and I'm so excited to hang out with y'all,
talk about what you love most about podcasts, talk about
what we love about stuff Mom never told you, and
(01:09):
introduce you also to bost up the other half of
what I do, which is my company all about career
development for women. So if you were in the Denver
metro area or know someone who should be there. Go
to bost up dot org. That's b O, S S E.
D U P dot org to find on the very
home page our upcoming event on February thirteen in Denver.
(01:32):
We'll also make sure to put a shout out on
the stuff Mom never told you Instagram and Twitter and Facebook,
so you can find all the details there. But I
hope to see you then, and sadly I won't be
able to make it. As sad as that is, I
wish I could be there to meet some of y'all,
But don't worry. M and I are hosting a meet
up very very soon, so details to come. Yeah here
in d C. Here in Yeah, for sure. I hope
(01:53):
to see some of y'all in Colorado in the meantime.
So are you ready to tack horoscopes? I have never
been more ready for anything in my life. I am
not gonna lie. So. I woke up in the middle
of the night the other night. I sometimes have trouble sleeping,
so this is not highly unusual for me. But I
just had a lot of racing thoughts going through my
mind and I literally reached over to my phone to
(02:15):
look up my horoscope because that is the thing I do.
On occasion when I stumbled upon the treasure trove of
articles that have been written about why millennial women are
so into astrology, and it was literally four o'clock in
the morning, and I was like, that's it. That's the
episode we're going to have to do next, because this
is so us, isn't it so Had that happened, had
(02:39):
I woke up and felt like reading my horoscope, I
would have thought this is a sign. Y'all. I'm almost
a little bit nervous to admit this as someone who
is the co host of a research driven podcast, but
I am so so into astrology. I read my horoscope regularly.
I have made life choices based on my horoscope. When
people call me out for being so into astrolo g.
(03:00):
Because when you're into astrology, it's just fine for people
don't make fun of you. I always say, oh, well,
I don't really believe in and I just think it's interesting.
But that's a lot I do believe in it. I
love that you're admitting that, first of all, because I
too feel a little sheepish about confessing how into astrology
I can be because I I do pride myself on
(03:21):
being a research driven, data oriented human being, but I
do love a good zodiac reading. I do, and I'm
not as deep into the culture of astrology as you
can be. There are graduate degrees you can get in
it in certain parts of the world. But today I
want to talk through why we are so not alone
in this And just as a disclaimer, if you do
(03:43):
want to understand more of the science and history behind astrology,
and by science, I'm saying that with air codes, y'all
the science and history of astrology, and if you'd like
to hear Josh and Chuck basically laugh in the face
of everyone like us who dares to enjoy and perhaps
(04:05):
believe in, uh some of our zodiacs. On occasion, our
fellow How Stuff Works co hosts over on Stuff You
should Know, Josh and Chuck have a great episode just
for you that will drop into the show notes. It's
pretty funny. They kind of basically call all of astrology
trash and then spend the entire episode saying, I really
didn't mean to like come down on people who like astrology,
(04:27):
but then they do. You know, Chuck and Josh have
got to be scorpios because that's some classic scorpia. Yeah,
they actually go into that on there, So I don't
think you're you're far from from truth on that one.
So here's what I'm interested in and tackling, like why
have zodiac signs and astrology? Why has all of that
stuff come back with such a vengeance? And it certainly has,
(04:51):
especially amongst women and millennial women in particular. According to
some research by the National Science Foundation, fifty eight percent
of eighteen to twenty four year old Americans believe astrology
is scientific. And that one that's a little over the
line for me, right, I don't I wouldn't use the
(05:14):
term scientific quite literally to describe astrology or my love
for reading my zodiac on Refinery twenty nine. But those
numbers are big, almost sixty of millennials apparently. Really during
that sort of hippie era of the nineteen sixties and
into well into the seventies and early eighties, astrology was
pretty big. The whole what's your sign baby was quite
(05:37):
on trend, and then it went away for a little
while everyone agreed this was bunk, and now millennials are
bringing it back, which is an interesting juxtaposition when you
look at how millennials feel about religion in particular. Yeah,
that's so interesting that you say that, because millennials are
getting less into religion, but things like being spiritual or
(06:00):
embracing the spirituality of life is having a resurgence. Yeah.
According to the Pew Research Center, a full quarter of
Americans now identify as quote spiritual but not religious. Oh
that's very me. I know it's a little bit cliche
to say, oh, I'm not into organized religion, I'm just spiritual,
but it's true. I should I understand why some of
(06:22):
us may feel a little bit queasy about getting involved
in structured, organized religion but still want to believe in
something bigger than ourselves, something that's more of a higher power. Um,
it sounds a little bit cliche, and maybe it is
a little bit cliche, but it makes sense to me.
I don't think it's cliche at all. Church attendance continues
to decline, and millennials are the least traditionally religious of
(06:44):
all living generations, which is not surprising. The majority of
Americans now agree it is not necessary to believe in
God in order to be moral, which is a relatively
new thing in terms of how many people believe that,
and Amelia Harnish brings up a ton of good points
that we are going to reference over and over again
(07:05):
in her article for Refinery twenty nine called in Turbulent Times,
we look to the sky how astrology is soothing millennial
women's souls? And yes, that is the article that I
was reading in bed at four o'clock in the morning
the other day. It's sort of soothed my soul. That's
why this is such a conundrum, and why this whole
conversation I think can be a little fraud. But one
(07:27):
of her best points, I think, is when she goes
on to say, quote, in a world where all the
major prophets are men, and where feminine chastity and obedience
to the patriarchy are the main things celebrated by traditional religions,
it's obvious why millennial women, maybe the most powerful generation
of women ever, are looking to see ourselves in our
(07:49):
own experiences of the divine. So no, like organized religion
has not traditionally been all that great for women, of course,
we're looking for alternatives. I think that makes perfect sense
when you look at things like the Catholic Church Sex
of You scandal and all the different ways that organized
religion can feel like it's failing young folks and women,
it makes sense that we've search for alternatives, yes, exactly,
(08:12):
and I mean the market also bears that out too.
While organized religion has been on the decline for our generation,
the psychic services industry, which I didn't know as a
market category until researching for this episode, But yes, the
psychic services industry, which includes astrology, tarot card reading, palm
mystery a k a. Going to palm readers, and other
(08:36):
metaphysical services, is growing between two thousand and eleven and
two thousand and sixteen. Mind you, very briefly after the
Great Recession. Okay, two thousand eleven two sixteen, that whole
industry sector shot up two per cent according to analysis
from ib I s World. Now, that might not sound
(08:57):
like a huge leap, but think about it this way.
It's now an industry worth two billion billion with a
b annually, and it was one of the very few
industries to weather the market crash in two thousand and
eight with minimal declines. Okay, here's where I admit something
a little bit surprising. I had a very weird month
(09:17):
last month and this month for a handful of personal
reasons I won't get into. But on one of the
days I felt the most out of sorts, I got
my poem read. My gym is kind of close to
a palm reading establishment, if you will, and you know
it is I know exactly no, but I went when
(09:39):
I was going through some tumultuous but this is a
real moment. I didn't know that. That's a confessional, y'all.
And I have to say, you know, I felt very lost.
I felt very scattered, and I thought, you know, I
passed this place every day. I've got ten bucks in
my pocket. Why not what could they tell me that
couldn't give me some sort of inside or give me
(10:01):
some sort of clarity. And you know, who knows if
it's quote unquote real. How did it go? It went great? Honestly.
It really felt more about having a conversation with someone
about whatever was in my head and less about them
looking at my palm and telling me, you know, the
lotto numbers or whatever. You know. Yeah, And I think
(10:21):
that's what is so powerful about this entire industry is
that it's an opportunity for self reflection and introspection that
is beneficial regardless of how you're getting it, and maybe
astrology is a whole bunch of bullsh that's fine, Like,
we're not asking you to believe in astrology, but if
it creates a space for you to be mindful about
(10:44):
yourself and your choices, and it gives you a framework
to sort of plug your life into, you know, is
it bad? Is it canna be bad? I don't know
that's exactly I mean, you just articulated my feelings on
the subject so well. For all my friends out there
that make fun of me for being into astrology, I
always just say, when I read my horoscope, which I
do daily, who cares if it's real? Who cares if
(11:07):
it's written in the stars. But what it does is
that for that ten minutes, it forces me to think
about my behavior, think about how I'm feeling. I have
to say, oh, does this sound like how I'm how
I've been the last couple of days? Yes or no?
And even if it doesn't fit, that time is still
meaningful in my life. And I don't think you know,
I'm not the kind of person who necessarily would do
(11:27):
that if I didn't have that five ten minutes a
day when I'm looking at my horoscope. And you know
who loves to um to point out what total bullsh
horoscopes are more than anyone I know is Brad Boo.
So one of our like regimens right now is early
morning Sunday uh ski trips. So we'll get up really early.
(11:48):
Brad's super good about having all of our ski stuff
and gear ready, and all I have to do is
like get caffeinated and get in the truck. That's my job.
And then by the time we arrive at the mountain,
you know, sometimes traffic out there can be really tough.
It'll be two hours later and I'm awake and ready
to ski for the day. But every Sunday morning I
get the New York Times. I'm reading it out loud
on the way in. And whenever I don't have the
(12:09):
New York Times, or if we do a Saturday trip,
I usually I'm reading our horoscopes. He's a cancer. I'm
o virgo, and I'll read them out loud and I'll
be like, oh my god, this is so you, or
oh my god, this is so me, and then he'll
be like, yeah, but all the other stuff you said
that's not so me. He loves doing that. He loves
pointing out all that is a classic anti astrology tactic
to be like, oh what offense, Yeah exactly, which half
(12:32):
the time he's right, and I don't care, and I'm like,
that's not the point. All right, We're gonna take a
quick break, but when we come back, I want to
take a look at why this might be on the rise,
especially amongst US millennial women. And we're back and we're
(12:54):
giggling about our relationship to horoscopes and the people in
our lives relationships, and we're drying to hear about your
thoughts on horoscopes quite frankly, but I want to break
down a couple of reasons that we've seen come up,
or theories really the theories that are out there as
to why there's such a resurgence in the popularity of
(13:15):
astrology right now. Some of them have everything to do
with the status of our world and are you know,
global politics at this moment. Like a lot of industries
we've talked about this in terms of fashion and food
and other industries are being imbued with social justice right now,
and astrology is no exception. I think that makes perfect sense.
(13:38):
In our skin care episode, we talked a little bit
about how women are sort of flocking to taking care
of their bodies and their skin or their hair as
a response to sort of Trump era America. And I
think that's definitely true for astrology. Tally. You do one
half of the quote astro twins, who are a pretty
popular astrology duo. I guess we call them. She writes
(14:00):
election was a mind for people, like, how is this
actually happening? Young people are facing a challenging economy, unaffordable
higher education, and the stress of bullying social media, and
an uncertain future about the environmental state of the planet.
Astrology and spiritual practice are incredibly grounding in the face
of this. I could not agree more. I definitely found
myself yearning for some sort of meaningful spiritual grounding in
(14:22):
the wake of a Trump presidency. You know, when things
were really really heating up on the racial justice fronts,
those were the times where I most felt comforted by
my own horoscopes and astrology and really thinking about the
spirituality that you know links us all together, Like what
does it all mean? Yeah? I mean, I think during
uncertain times, people look for something bigger than themselves. It's
(14:43):
part of the appeal of organized religion always has been
still is today. Right When we feel like things are
out of control and we individually might not have a
lot of power and times are scary and uncertain, we
look to something greater than us, and I think astrology
fits the bill for a lot of folks. In her
great piece for Refinery twenty nine, Amelia talks to Garlia Cornelia,
(15:05):
a thirty four year old mother of two and playwright
who lives in the New York City suburbs, who says
that basically astrology is a lived faith. It brings the
level of mindfulness that it's calming, and she uses it
as well as the related practice of studying moon cycles
in relation to her menstrual cycle as a way to
(15:26):
carve out space for self care and planning ahead, which
I thought was a very interesting connection between astrology and
the divine feminine. Yeah, one of the things I love
so much about astrology is that it does feel kind
of feminine, and I think that's related to why it's
having a resurgence with women. If you look at things
like makeup, fashion, reality TV, things that you associate with women,
(15:47):
I think we're at a moment where a lot of women,
myself included, have maybe felt a bit cheapish about their
interest in these things. But right now I think it's
okay to say, you know what I like astrology, and
I don't care what you think I like makeup, and
I don't care what you think I like skincare, and
I don't care what you think I feel like. For
so long, interest in quote unquote girly things has been
(16:09):
something we've been a little bit shy about. What we've
been taught to hate it even tough to embrace the masculine.
And guess what we can be boss is who are
smart and capable and strong and still like to read.
There's no deact. You're a perfect example of that. You
know what it it reminds me of is our episode on
how teen Vote Got Woke because we looked at how
(16:32):
people used to throw shade at women's magazines being you know, trifling,
little nonsense reads, and now they're hard hitting journalists are
in the same magazine as you know, skincare conversations, and
that's okay. We can do that, we can we can
embrace that duality and that's not something to feel ashamed of.
That's all all that shame was internalized patriarchy coming at us,
(16:56):
making us feel like being ladylike or girlish or whatever
it was somehow coming to apologize for. We are vasked.
We contain multitudes. You can read your horoscope and still
be a smart, savvy, research driven woman or podcast you're
me exactly exactly. Nadia Shaw, a Canadian astrologer who has
(17:16):
an m A and the Cultural Study of Cosmology not
to be confused with cosmetology, but actually the study of
the cosmos and divination from the University of Kent in
the United Kingdom, says that this whole resurgence is an
example of the deep yearning for a way to link
the feminine to the divine. She says, quote astrology and
(17:38):
some of these other practices acknowledged that there is a
sacred feminine energy in the universe and it can be
a way of honoring the sacred feminine, which really looks
different than are very pale dominated history long history of
organized religion. Definitely, and again I can see why for
younger folks like ourselves that's more appealing than organized religion.
(17:59):
It makes perfect sense exactly. Now there's another theory out there,
which I call the millennial generation theory. Right, so beyond
linking the feminine to the divine. Part of the resurgence
can also potentially be explained by the characteristics that our
generation holds first and foremost. You may have heard the
rumor the reputation out there that we millennials are a
(18:22):
little self centered and what a better thing to do
and read all about yourself and your unique place in
the universe. Of course, our generation is into this because
it's all about you exactly, Amelia Harnish writes over in
Refineer between nine. Of course, millennials are often derided as
quote self obsessed, but don't get it twisted. Self obsessed
(18:44):
does not necessarily mean selfish. One has to remember that
millennials have been let down over and over again. We've
been told that we were post racial and post feminist,
that equality have been reached, and yet we all experienced
racism and sexism constantly, and when we speak about it
online or tempt to organize for change, were derided as
quote whiners or snowflakes and told to shut up and
(19:05):
stop complaining. We were told to work hard and we'd
be rewarded. Instead, we graduated into erect economy, enormous debt,
and an ever more unstable world. It's no wonder we
want to be able to trust some deep wisdom within
ourselves we can't trust anyone else. I am so into
Amelia Harnish's piece for a Refinery twenty nine. I mean
(19:27):
it plays right into the trend that millennials are rejecting institutions,
and this is like a personal alternative to an institution.
It's the divinity within it is. And when you feel
like you can't trust anyone, and you feel like you
can't trust institutions, you really have to look within and
find things to trust within yourself. And I think that
horoscopes help you connect to that. I agree now to
(19:51):
be a little meta here to go one step further
on the millennial as a generation makes sense for this
astrology resurgence. If you look to the stars and look
at our generations star chart, we actually share some interesting
astrological characteristics. Now I don't proclaim to know what half
(20:11):
of these words mean, but here's what we've read. Apparently
we have a lot of key similarities in our natal charts.
Neptune stays about thirteen years in a sign, so it
can influence an entire generation. And Neptune is confusion delusion
and illusion does not sound like our millennial generation confusion,
(20:32):
delusion and illusion. According to Angel, the astrologer that Amelia
who wrote this article Amelia Harnish one to have a
reading with. She says, most of your generation has Neptune
in Capricorn, which is a business like sign. So your
generation sees spirituality as business and business as spiritual, which
(20:53):
from a career development standpoint, really struck me as true
about millennials because we're not just looking for careers that
pay the bills. We're looking for careers that fulfill our purpose.
And that's a very new and unique characteristic of our generation.
That reminded me of that connection to business and spirituality. Well,
that connects so nicely to the point that you made
earlier that I think we'll get into more in just
(21:13):
a minute, which is this idea that for a lot
of millennials were so grounded in things like spirituality and
social change that we expect those things to infuse all
aspects of life. And so we're gonna go buy a cheeseburger,
it better be an ethically sourced cheeseburger where they give
half the profits to some good cause. Otherwise we're not
into it totally. I mean, how many of our episodes
(21:34):
hit on that very concept. It's clearly a thing with millennials,
and I think you see a lot of savvy businesses
trying to tap into that these days. Oh I'm so
glad you mentioned that, because I have to acknowledge that
social justice is a big part of the modern day
astrology movement. Let's take a quick break and when we
come back, we'll look at some of the leading women
(21:56):
of the astrology movement who are infusing all of their
horse scopes with a lot of social justice. We'll be
right back after this. And we are back, and we
have to talk about a very cool astrologist, astrology expert,
(22:20):
horoscope writer, badass boss lady of astrology, the l A
based Johnny Nicholas. Full disclosure, Johnny is my favorite. I
await her horoscopes to drop like I'm waiting for Beyonce album.
When it comes. I stopped everything and I read them. Honestly,
Johnny is like a poet. Go and look at some
(22:42):
of her writing. You know, you think you're just reading
a horoscope, but it's so beautifully written sometimes it almost
gives me chills. I totally believe that and there's a
lot of that combination of astrology and poetry on the
Internet as well. Johnny is really symbolic of this latest
iteration of the strology run assance. She made a name
for herself with quote politically charged and deeply pragmatic readings.
(23:07):
According to Lenny Letter, She's been profiled by The l
A Times, featured in BuzzFeed, The Cut, and Nylon. Her
horoscopes come out on Mondays, but on any given day
you might find her reading Cardi B's chart for the
listeners of a hip hop radio show, or explaining why
the eclipse was bad news for Trump. And now she's
training a generation of astrologers through classes on her own website.
(23:30):
Her essay on the Star Signs and Trump was one
of my favorite reads of the year, if you could
take that was a ven diagram of things bridget love,
bashing Trump, and astrology. I was in heaven. I was like,
oh my god, this is nothing will ever be more
fitting for me than this. It was written for you,
it was written for me, written in the stars, written
for me. I love it. You know it's funny. She
(23:52):
says that the combination of astrology and social justice for
her was not super intentional. It was just actual. She
actually is on the record saying, listen, astrology is just
my skill set. Social justice is my passion, So partly
it's just me. Also, astrology is all about commenting on
humans and the human experience. It's about our decisions and
(24:15):
our movements and all of that. So to me, I
don't understand under what circumstances would your politics not come
into your astrology exactly. If we're making this point that
spirituality sort of infuses everything we do, from the things
that we buy, from the movies that we see, of course,
it would infuse social change politics and our social and
political landscape exactly. And I really love what she's all about.
(24:38):
She's not just sort of social justice washing her craft
like we've seen some corporations do. Um. You know, this
is not just about making feminism sell her stuff more.
It's inherent to who she is. But then she went
on to say this, which which caused me some pausitis.
And this is where I kind of like the skincare debate.
This is where I feel some personal tension. She says,
(25:00):
we are all in desperate need of being reflective. We
all deeply crave a reflection because the reflection kind of
unlocked something in us, and then it helps us to
help find our agency. And that last part really struck
me because your personal agency, your ability to make change
in your life, to me, seems directly in contradiction with
(25:23):
this idea that things are sort of predestined in the
stars that are written in the stars. So the question is,
doesn't does reading your zodiac help you find a sense
of personal agency or does it do the opposite and
give you an excuse to explain why things aren't working
in your life or are working in your life? You
know what I mean. I know what you mean, And
(25:44):
I have two thoughts on that. One is that I
don't know if you saw recently, Erica Badou got into
a little bit of hot water because she gave this
really wild interview wherein she said that she saw the
good and Hitler because he was a good painter, And
when the interviewer pushed back and said that's deeply offensive.
Would you like to take that again? She said, well,
(26:05):
I guess that's just the Pisces in me, which she
really um for all. I was like, well, she really
used fell back on her zodiac as a way to
explain like, oh, did I just say something really offensive. Well,
I'm a Pisces. Well that's what I'm saying it. I
think it can run the risk of giving people the
opportunity to shirk their agency and and say, well, this
(26:27):
is just who I am. It's fixed trade, you know,
and say it's destined in the stars that I'm going
to be flaky or whatever. Yeah. For me, when I
read my horoscope, oftentimes I'm more attuned to that sort
of negative things that's saying about me, and so I
actually use it too as a way of maybe finding
personal agency. So you know, I'm a Pisces as one
(26:48):
in March fourteen, and traits about Pisces are supposedly flighty
and emotional and intuitive and creative. And so I when
I read my horoscope and it's saying, well, you know,
watch out for this negative trait that might pop up
on this day, I like to think that I use
that as a warning to not do that, and it
(27:09):
takes some personal agency. It's kind of like a challenge
to be better exactly. So if my horoscope says you're
going to feel X y Z on this date, your
instinct is going to be to do this. You should
probably do that. It helps to be a little bit
more mindful of oh am, I reacting the way that
my horoscope said I would, and is there a better
way to react? Yeah, it kind of creates an opportunity
(27:30):
for meta cognition, like think about the way you're thinking. Yeah,
And honestly, I know that horoscopes get a lot of shade,
but that's really how I use it. I just use
it as a way to check in with my own behavior,
how I'm feeling and test sort of hit the brakes
on something and course correct something that's not going well. Yes,
and I think that's a really positive way to look
at horoscopes. It can be twisted, and I don't think
(27:54):
it's healthy to look at your horoscope and say, oh, well,
this is how my life is going to be, you know,
or feel like it's already predestined. I'm going to have
a bad day today or I'm gonna have a great
day today, and sort of get complacent and not feel
like you're an agent of change in your own life.
But yeah, I mean, as long as we're not doing that,
I think they can be relatively harmless. However, there's one
(28:16):
other argument that came up from Amanda Hess in the
New York Times. I find like Amanda Hess and I
must be reading all the same because every time I
dive deep into a topic for Sminty, somehow Amanda Hess
comes up and her whole series for The New York
Times on Amanda on the Internet. What is it called?
Do you know? Like? Um, you know what? Internetting? Interneting
(28:39):
with Amanda Hess is so great. And this came up
in one of her internetting columns, quick thing. You know
where she got her start here in d C the
City Paper. She was, Oh, yeah, I adore her. She's great.
I'm sad I never met her. Did you meet her?
I wish? I wish too. She's really cool, Amanda call us.
We want to be friends anyway. She has a very
(29:01):
uh I wouldn't say salty, but a cutting take on
the whole phenomenon and the rise of zodiac popularity, and
she says it's much more about the medium than the message. Basically,
she says zodiacs were pretty much designed for the digital era.
And she makes a really good point. She says, quote,
(29:25):
I think the astrology boomlet as in tiny boom owes
as much to the dynamics of the modern Internet, as
it does to any sort of cosmic significance about the
millennials place in the universe. Astrology checks several boxes for
viral happy content. It provides an easy framework for endlessly
(29:45):
personalized material, targets women, and accesses nineties nostalgia. It's the
cosmic BuzzFeed quiz that's so good and so true. One
of my favorite astrology based Twitter accounts is stro Poets.
I mean it's called astro Poets, but it's really more
sort of pop culture astrology, and so each tweet almost
(30:07):
exists as this standalone absurdest point that it's so it's
so funny and weird that you can't help but love it.
And so they'll often break down different things like, oh,
each sign as a Lady Gaga lyric, or each sign
as a sext. So here's a great example, cancer sexed.
It's a whull moon, blinky face scorpio. Yeah it's lit,
(30:30):
but who is this l O L? So it's absurdest.
It really doesn't make a lot of sense, but if
you if it's your sign somehow, every time I see it,
I'm like, oh, that's so met even though it's nonsensical, right, Well,
they like have these fake conversations, like fake text conversations
and other sort of celebrity driven absurdities. But man, it's
hard to pack that much absurdity into a little tweet.
(30:53):
So that's an impressive poetic feet in and of itself.
You're gonna actually appreciate this. And so I always look
for my astro poet reading things, even though it's just
a tweet. And just the other day, my reading for
the week of January says, what is it about passion
that makes people think that it requires no planning? They
must not know you? And I thought if Emily read,
(31:13):
she would say that is perfect for Bridge, and it
was for me. Again, it's these little funny but true. Yeah,
it's like these little these little nuggets of humor, sometimes
absurdest but sometimes very meaningful. I love that. And you
know what's kind of interesting about modern day astrology writing
like that is that everyone who's writing it kind of
(31:35):
does so with a nod nod, wink wink. Amanda Hess
writes quote, you don't have to actually believe in astrology
to be into it. That position is best exemplified by
the Twitter meme quote astrology is fake but and which
like goes on to say, but isn't this true? You know,
we all acknowledge that it's bullsh but read into how
(31:55):
true this is, you know, this sort of like acceptance
that you don't need to believe it. But oh my god,
isn't it on point exactly? And you actually just made
me think of another reason why I love astrology writing
so much. It's because so much of the writing on
the Internet takes itself very seriously, is very stuffy, is
very yeah, it feels very serious, and astrology writing isn't
(32:16):
that way. To be into astrology, you kind of have
to be in on that wink wink nod nod vibe.
And I find that, you know, when I read astrology writing,
it's usually either meaningful or it's funny, and people it's
written for people who don't take it too seriously. And
that's the kind of writing that I want to read.
And so I just want to underscore that by saying, oftentimes,
(32:37):
why I am drawn to this, it's because it's good writing,
it's good content, and it's almost sometimes almost satirical, which
is actually very different than the sincere advice of traditional
newspaper astrologers. Amanda Hess says, many successful modern astrologists adopt
a ride distance to their subject matter. She references the
cuts resident astrologer who calls herself Madam Clairvoyant, and then
(33:02):
the poet and essayist Melissa Broder, who offers quote Lenny
Scopes on Lenny Letter, which read like a slightly sarcastic
version of the zodiac that undercut the practice even as
they reinforce it. There's a silly kind of pleasure to
be taken in twisting scientific data points, birth dates, orbits,
planetary alignments into little morality plays about our inconsequential personal dramas.
(33:28):
I love that, Like that is exactly why it's so good.
It can be. I'm a second all I know, and
then this is so good. It often taps in to
something that is absurdist or humorist in a way that
I feel like no one else is really doing. It
sort of shows us the absurdity of the world, the
absurdity of our own behavior, and sort of makes fun
(33:51):
of it in a way that feels both comforting and
and not a bad way to sort of laugh at
your place in this planet, you know what I mean. Yeah,
it's the harm exactly. That's why I love astro poets
so much because it really does encourage me to laugh
at some of my own frailties. It will be like
somewhere Pisces out there has eighteen unread text and I'm like, yeah,
(34:12):
but sure do like instead of it gives you the
space to, instead of beating yourself up about something that
you feel weird about, just sort of laugh at it.
I love it. Whether you think that astrology is on
the rise because of the unique star positions for our
entire generation when we were all born, or because we're
(34:33):
self obsessed millennials who love to not believe in traditional
institutions and rather seek out feminine divinity within ourselves, or
like Amanda has points out, you think that it was
just made for Instagram and the era of social media,
or it's a survival technique for how you're coping with
the era of Trump. I think the rise of horoscopes
(34:55):
is both non surprising to me and comforting, and I'm
okay admitting that. I'm very okay admitting it. I was
a little skittish before this episode to admit it, but
I'm okay with it now, and I think we should
all be reclaiming things that have been sort of cast
aside as girly or feminine and and un serious and say, yeah,
I like this, so we should have Josh and check
(35:18):
in here and be like, are y'all hearing this? Yeah
we should. Yes, don't shame me for being into my horoscope.
I'm telling you I've made major life choices. Okay, well
that actually concerns me. I mean, okay, what do you
mean by that? What do you mean by that? If
I'm trying to give an example, Oh, perfect example is
(35:41):
this podcast. So if you know the story of how
he's got on this podcast together, which is that I
was out of work. I had been laid off unexpectedly
from a job that I loved and was sort of
in this weird ether of I probably could get another job,
but I don't know offers not not sort I'm sure
what to do. You called me and said I have
a great offer for you. I texted you, yes, I
was at render. You texted me and said, don't do
(36:03):
anything yet, and I want to talk to you. I figure,
I said, are you still searching for a job? Do
not take anything, Which it's already sounds kind of like
the kind of text that you would get, you know,
and think this is a sign. But then I read
my horoscope and it said something about along the lines
of accepting new things. You know, the universe is going
to provide for you. This is a scary time. And
then I got that text from you, and so that
(36:23):
made me. You know, I'm the kind of person who's
a little bit into hippie dippie stuff, so I'm like
always looking for signs, and I thought, this is a sign.
I love it. I'm waiting for one of those signs
right now. Myself read those horoscope I'm ready to read
some horoscopes. And actually, as we wrap up today's episode,
now might be a good time for me to confess
(36:47):
some news to you all, my beloved Sminty listeners. At
the end of this month, I am very sad to
say that I will actually be moving on from stuff
Mom never told you, which is bitter sweet. It's sad.
I'm really going to miss collaborating with you, Bridget I
(37:07):
feel like in so many ways we were just getting started.
But it's also an opportunity, right, So there's a lot
of reasons behind this decision, but the primary reality is
that I'm trying to bring a lot of focus to
my work this year, and Smindy has been an opportunity
of a lifetime, a privilege and a pleasure. But I'm
(37:27):
going to actually be launching a podcast all about career development,
so all about the work I do it boss Up
about personal and professional development for women who are navigating
career transition and considering entrepreneurship from a feminist lens. Right, So,
I'm by no means leaving the universe of podcasting, but
(37:48):
I am sadly leaving this particular, fabulous, fiercely feminist podcast
with you, Bridget. But I'm very sad about um. And
for those of you who can't join me in Denver
this month for an in person hang out Sash, I
want to let you know that I'm actually hosting a
live webinar at the end of this month just for
(38:09):
Sinty listeners who want to talk with me directly about
what's going on this transition and learn a little bit
more about where I'm headed next in my next venture.
So if you want to join me on a webinar
for that live conversation will be me really talking to
you Sminty listeners about what's happening and where I'm headed next.
You can go to bost up dot org slash sminty
(38:31):
that's bossed up dot org slash s m n t
y and sign up to join me then. But don't worry' all.
We've got like seven more episodes coming your way this month,
so I'm not heading anywhere fast. But I do want
to say it's been an absolute pleasure and a delight
to be a part of this, And I really feel
like this departure is too soon, um, but hope that
(38:53):
we can continue Boston up in your earbuds UM soon.
You can probably tell by my voice I can't. I'm
it's emotional for me, but I mean, I can't even
express how much this is meant to me to do
with you, Emily. UM, I also will be here in
your earbuds, but you know it's doing this. I there's
(39:16):
no one else I would have wanted to go on
this venture with. I can't even imagine doing this not
with you, and You've just it's just been in delight. I'm, I'm,
I feel like we sort of just got into our
groove in a kind of way, and you know, I
know that you're onto bigger and better as always. But
(39:38):
you know this will I feel like this will always
be your home. I almost this is so silly. I'm sorry.
It's hard. It's hard. And we've done a few episodes
where we knew this was going to be the vibe
and it was difficult. So if you've heard episodes that
have been recorded recently where you're thinking, oh, their energy
seems different, that could be why. Because it is hard.
(40:00):
It's hard, you know, to feel like you're in this
with a good friend and then when that good friend
goes on to do something really cool but not with me,
it's hard. It's like, um, yeah, you get it. Well,
I have to say that the show will go on,
and you know, we stepped into some big shoes with
(40:20):
filling in for Kristen and Caroline, and you are carrying
the torch like a boss, Bridget, and the show will
go on and it will be great. And like we
said right before the end of the year, what has
made Stuff I've never told you amazing has always been
the listeners. So listen. How Stuff Works is committed to
making this show awesome, and you, Bridget, are an awesome
(40:42):
part of how they're going to make that happen. So
I am sad to be leaving, but the show is
not over yet with me, y'all. We've got another bunch
of episodes coming your way. But as a reminder, if
you do want to talk one and one, learn more
about my next adventure, and just stay connected and converse
with me directly about this transition. Boston up dot org.
That's b O s s E d up dot org
(41:03):
slash Sminty and be on the lookout for Emily's new
astrology focused venture. Okay, I wish I had an astrology podcast.
Oh god, I would die it should be. I actually
have no idea. You were so into this, so I'm
so happy to hear then started this episode like you
were like, oh my god, I'm just gonna roll arize
and thought this was going to be me defending my
(41:25):
interest in astrology and you talking about why it's b
S and then all the listeners being like Emily's right, Bridget,
Bridget shouldn't be in a strategy. Astrology is dumb, and
then you feeling sad for a week. He looked so
vindicated when I was like, oh, I went to a
palm reader too. I never thought, Yeah, that was that
came out of nowhere. I was happy with that, but
it's like me as a virgo, it's so not like you.
(41:47):
You know, who else is a virgo? Obviously she's like
virgo idols. First time I met you, I knew you
were a Virgo. I knew it. I'm not kidding. I
thought in my head you are a virgo and you
are a I am. Okay, y'all, we want to hear
from you. We should wrap this episode up, but yes,
let's keep talking about our zodiac. Um So, sminty listeners,
(42:10):
where do you fall on this pseudo science, new wave
substitute for religion for millennials? How do you feel about
reading your horoscope? What does astrology like? What's your take
on all this? We can't wait to hear from you,
So hit us up on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,
on Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You, And as always,
our inbox is open at mom Stuff at how stuff
(42:32):
works dot com
Hey, this is Emily and you're listening to stuff Mom
never told you. Now. Before we jump into today's topic,
which Bridget and I are so excited about. Quite frankly,
(00:26):
I wanted to give a little shout out and an
invitation to you all who have been waiting for us
to host some kind of meet up. I'm really excited
to be co hosting an event in Denver, Colorado, my
new city of residents, in case you hadn't heard the
news yet. I sneak back to d C all the
time to hang out with Bridget, but I actually live
(00:46):
in Denver now and we miss her so much. Not
that you can keep me away, but we are really
excited to be teaming up with Cat Jaffee of House
of Pod to be hosting an awesome meet up event.
It's gonna be totally free and I'm going to be
there and I'm so excited to hang out with y'all,
talk about what you love most about podcasts, talk about
what we love about stuff Mom never told you, and
(01:09):
introduce you also to bost up the other half of
what I do, which is my company all about career
development for women. So if you were in the Denver
metro area or know someone who should be there. Go
to bost up dot org. That's b O, S S E.
D U P dot org to find on the very
home page our upcoming event on February thirteen in Denver.
(01:32):
We'll also make sure to put a shout out on
the stuff Mom never told you Instagram and Twitter and Facebook,
so you can find all the details there. But I
hope to see you then, and sadly I won't be
able to make it. As sad as that is, I
wish I could be there to meet some of y'all,
But don't worry. M and I are hosting a meet
up very very soon, so details to come. Yeah here
in d C. Here in Yeah, for sure. I hope
(01:53):
to see some of y'all in Colorado in the meantime.
So are you ready to tack horoscopes? I have never
been more ready for anything in my life. I am
not gonna lie. So. I woke up in the middle
of the night the other night. I sometimes have trouble sleeping,
so this is not highly unusual for me. But I
just had a lot of racing thoughts going through my
mind and I literally reached over to my phone to
(02:15):
look up my horoscope because that is the thing I do.
On occasion when I stumbled upon the treasure trove of
articles that have been written about why millennial women are
so into astrology, and it was literally four o'clock in
the morning, and I was like, that's it. That's the
episode we're going to have to do next, because this
is so us, isn't it so Had that happened, had
(02:39):
I woke up and felt like reading my horoscope, I
would have thought this is a sign. Y'all. I'm almost
a little bit nervous to admit this as someone who
is the co host of a research driven podcast, but
I am so so into astrology. I read my horoscope regularly.
I have made life choices based on my horoscope. When
people call me out for being so into astrolo g.
(03:00):
Because when you're into astrology, it's just fine for people
don't make fun of you. I always say, oh, well,
I don't really believe in and I just think it's interesting.
But that's a lot I do believe in it. I
love that you're admitting that, first of all, because I
too feel a little sheepish about confessing how into astrology
I can be because I I do pride myself on
(03:21):
being a research driven, data oriented human being, but I
do love a good zodiac reading. I do, and I'm
not as deep into the culture of astrology as you
can be. There are graduate degrees you can get in
it in certain parts of the world. But today I
want to talk through why we are so not alone
in this And just as a disclaimer, if you do
(03:43):
want to understand more of the science and history behind astrology,
and by science, I'm saying that with air codes, y'all
the science and history of astrology, and if you'd like
to hear Josh and Chuck basically laugh in the face
of everyone like us who dares to enjoy and perhaps
(04:05):
believe in, uh some of our zodiacs. On occasion, our
fellow How Stuff Works co hosts over on Stuff You
should Know, Josh and Chuck have a great episode just
for you that will drop into the show notes. It's
pretty funny. They kind of basically call all of astrology
trash and then spend the entire episode saying, I really
didn't mean to like come down on people who like astrology,
(04:27):
but then they do. You know, Chuck and Josh have
got to be scorpios because that's some classic scorpia. Yeah,
they actually go into that on there, So I don't
think you're you're far from from truth on that one.
So here's what I'm interested in and tackling, like why
have zodiac signs and astrology? Why has all of that
stuff come back with such a vengeance? And it certainly has,
(04:51):
especially amongst women and millennial women in particular. According to
some research by the National Science Foundation, fifty eight percent
of eighteen to twenty four year old Americans believe astrology
is scientific. And that one that's a little over the
line for me, right, I don't I wouldn't use the
(05:14):
term scientific quite literally to describe astrology or my love
for reading my zodiac on Refinery twenty nine. But those
numbers are big, almost sixty of millennials apparently. Really during
that sort of hippie era of the nineteen sixties and
into well into the seventies and early eighties, astrology was
pretty big. The whole what's your sign baby was quite
(05:37):
on trend, and then it went away for a little
while everyone agreed this was bunk, and now millennials are
bringing it back, which is an interesting juxtaposition when you
look at how millennials feel about religion in particular. Yeah,
that's so interesting that you say that, because millennials are
getting less into religion, but things like being spiritual or
(06:00):
embracing the spirituality of life is having a resurgence. Yeah.
According to the Pew Research Center, a full quarter of
Americans now identify as quote spiritual but not religious. Oh
that's very me. I know it's a little bit cliche
to say, oh, I'm not into organized religion, I'm just spiritual,
but it's true. I should I understand why some of
(06:22):
us may feel a little bit queasy about getting involved
in structured, organized religion but still want to believe in
something bigger than ourselves, something that's more of a higher power. Um,
it sounds a little bit cliche, and maybe it is
a little bit cliche, but it makes sense to me.
I don't think it's cliche at all. Church attendance continues
to decline, and millennials are the least traditionally religious of
(06:44):
all living generations, which is not surprising. The majority of
Americans now agree it is not necessary to believe in
God in order to be moral, which is a relatively
new thing in terms of how many people believe that,
and Amelia Harnish brings up a ton of good points
that we are going to reference over and over again
(07:05):
in her article for Refinery twenty nine called in Turbulent Times,
we look to the sky how astrology is soothing millennial
women's souls? And yes, that is the article that I
was reading in bed at four o'clock in the morning
the other day. It's sort of soothed my soul. That's
why this is such a conundrum, and why this whole
conversation I think can be a little fraud. But one
(07:27):
of her best points, I think, is when she goes
on to say, quote, in a world where all the
major prophets are men, and where feminine chastity and obedience
to the patriarchy are the main things celebrated by traditional religions,
it's obvious why millennial women, maybe the most powerful generation
of women ever, are looking to see ourselves in our
(07:49):
own experiences of the divine. So no, like organized religion
has not traditionally been all that great for women, of course,
we're looking for alternatives. I think that makes perfect sense
when you look at things like the Catholic Church Sex
of You scandal and all the different ways that organized
religion can feel like it's failing young folks and women,
it makes sense that we've search for alternatives, yes, exactly,
(08:12):
and I mean the market also bears that out too.
While organized religion has been on the decline for our generation,
the psychic services industry, which I didn't know as a
market category until researching for this episode, But yes, the
psychic services industry, which includes astrology, tarot card reading, palm
mystery a k a. Going to palm readers, and other
(08:36):
metaphysical services, is growing between two thousand and eleven and
two thousand and sixteen. Mind you, very briefly after the
Great Recession. Okay, two thousand eleven two sixteen, that whole
industry sector shot up two per cent according to analysis
from ib I s World. Now, that might not sound
(08:57):
like a huge leap, but think about it this way.
It's now an industry worth two billion billion with a
b annually, and it was one of the very few
industries to weather the market crash in two thousand and
eight with minimal declines. Okay, here's where I admit something
a little bit surprising. I had a very weird month
(09:17):
last month and this month for a handful of personal
reasons I won't get into. But on one of the
days I felt the most out of sorts, I got
my poem read. My gym is kind of close to
a palm reading establishment, if you will, and you know
it is I know exactly no, but I went when
(09:39):
I was going through some tumultuous but this is a
real moment. I didn't know that. That's a confessional, y'all.
And I have to say, you know, I felt very lost.
I felt very scattered, and I thought, you know, I
passed this place every day. I've got ten bucks in
my pocket. Why not what could they tell me that
couldn't give me some sort of inside or give me
(10:01):
some sort of clarity. And you know, who knows if
it's quote unquote real. How did it go? It went great? Honestly.
It really felt more about having a conversation with someone
about whatever was in my head and less about them
looking at my palm and telling me, you know, the
lotto numbers or whatever. You know. Yeah, And I think
(10:21):
that's what is so powerful about this entire industry is
that it's an opportunity for self reflection and introspection that
is beneficial regardless of how you're getting it, and maybe
astrology is a whole bunch of bullsh that's fine, Like,
we're not asking you to believe in astrology, but if
it creates a space for you to be mindful about
(10:44):
yourself and your choices, and it gives you a framework
to sort of plug your life into, you know, is
it bad? Is it canna be bad? I don't know
that's exactly I mean, you just articulated my feelings on
the subject so well. For all my friends out there
that make fun of me for being into astrology, I
always just say, when I read my horoscope, which I
do daily, who cares if it's real? Who cares if
(11:07):
it's written in the stars. But what it does is
that for that ten minutes, it forces me to think
about my behavior, think about how I'm feeling. I have
to say, oh, does this sound like how I'm how
I've been the last couple of days? Yes or no?
And even if it doesn't fit, that time is still
meaningful in my life. And I don't think you know,
I'm not the kind of person who necessarily would do
(11:27):
that if I didn't have that five ten minutes a
day when I'm looking at my horoscope. And you know
who loves to um to point out what total bullsh
horoscopes are more than anyone I know is Brad Boo.
So one of our like regimens right now is early
morning Sunday uh ski trips. So we'll get up really early.
(11:48):
Brad's super good about having all of our ski stuff
and gear ready, and all I have to do is
like get caffeinated and get in the truck. That's my job.
And then by the time we arrive at the mountain,
you know, sometimes traffic out there can be really tough.
It'll be two hours later and I'm awake and ready
to ski for the day. But every Sunday morning I
get the New York Times. I'm reading it out loud
on the way in. And whenever I don't have the
(12:09):
New York Times, or if we do a Saturday trip,
I usually I'm reading our horoscopes. He's a cancer. I'm
o virgo, and I'll read them out loud and I'll
be like, oh my god, this is so you, or
oh my god, this is so me, and then he'll
be like, yeah, but all the other stuff you said
that's not so me. He loves doing that. He loves
pointing out all that is a classic anti astrology tactic
to be like, oh what offense, Yeah exactly, which half
(12:32):
the time he's right, and I don't care, and I'm like,
that's not the point. All right, We're gonna take a
quick break, but when we come back, I want to
take a look at why this might be on the rise,
especially amongst US millennial women. And we're back and we're
(12:54):
giggling about our relationship to horoscopes and the people in
our lives relationships, and we're drying to hear about your
thoughts on horoscopes quite frankly, but I want to break
down a couple of reasons that we've seen come up,
or theories really the theories that are out there as
to why there's such a resurgence in the popularity of
(13:15):
astrology right now. Some of them have everything to do
with the status of our world and are you know,
global politics at this moment. Like a lot of industries
we've talked about this in terms of fashion and food
and other industries are being imbued with social justice right now,
and astrology is no exception. I think that makes perfect sense.
(13:38):
In our skin care episode, we talked a little bit
about how women are sort of flocking to taking care
of their bodies and their skin or their hair as
a response to sort of Trump era America. And I
think that's definitely true for astrology. Tally. You do one
half of the quote astro twins, who are a pretty
popular astrology duo. I guess we call them. She writes
(14:00):
election was a mind for people, like, how is this
actually happening? Young people are facing a challenging economy, unaffordable
higher education, and the stress of bullying social media, and
an uncertain future about the environmental state of the planet.
Astrology and spiritual practice are incredibly grounding in the face
of this. I could not agree more. I definitely found
myself yearning for some sort of meaningful spiritual grounding in
(14:22):
the wake of a Trump presidency. You know, when things
were really really heating up on the racial justice fronts,
those were the times where I most felt comforted by
my own horoscopes and astrology and really thinking about the
spirituality that you know links us all together, Like what
does it all mean? Yeah? I mean, I think during
uncertain times, people look for something bigger than themselves. It's
(14:43):
part of the appeal of organized religion always has been
still is today. Right When we feel like things are
out of control and we individually might not have a
lot of power and times are scary and uncertain, we
look to something greater than us, and I think astrology
fits the bill for a lot of folks. In her
great piece for Refinery twenty nine, Amelia talks to Garlia Cornelia,
(15:05):
a thirty four year old mother of two and playwright
who lives in the New York City suburbs, who says
that basically astrology is a lived faith. It brings the
level of mindfulness that it's calming, and she uses it
as well as the related practice of studying moon cycles
in relation to her menstrual cycle as a way to
(15:26):
carve out space for self care and planning ahead, which
I thought was a very interesting connection between astrology and
the divine feminine. Yeah, one of the things I love
so much about astrology is that it does feel kind
of feminine, and I think that's related to why it's
having a resurgence with women. If you look at things
like makeup, fashion, reality TV, things that you associate with women,
(15:47):
I think we're at a moment where a lot of women,
myself included, have maybe felt a bit cheapish about their
interest in these things. But right now I think it's
okay to say, you know what I like astrology, and
I don't care what you think I like makeup, and
I don't care what you think I like skincare, and
I don't care what you think I feel like. For
so long, interest in quote unquote girly things has been
(16:09):
something we've been a little bit shy about. What we've
been taught to hate it even tough to embrace the masculine.
And guess what we can be boss is who are
smart and capable and strong and still like to read.
There's no deact. You're a perfect example of that. You
know what it it reminds me of is our episode on
how teen Vote Got Woke because we looked at how
(16:32):
people used to throw shade at women's magazines being you know, trifling,
little nonsense reads, and now they're hard hitting journalists are
in the same magazine as you know, skincare conversations, and
that's okay. We can do that, we can we can
embrace that duality and that's not something to feel ashamed of.
That's all all that shame was internalized patriarchy coming at us,
(16:56):
making us feel like being ladylike or girlish or whatever
it was somehow coming to apologize for. We are vasked.
We contain multitudes. You can read your horoscope and still
be a smart, savvy, research driven woman or podcast you're
me exactly exactly. Nadia Shaw, a Canadian astrologer who has
(17:16):
an m A and the Cultural Study of Cosmology not
to be confused with cosmetology, but actually the study of
the cosmos and divination from the University of Kent in
the United Kingdom, says that this whole resurgence is an
example of the deep yearning for a way to link
the feminine to the divine. She says, quote astrology and
(17:38):
some of these other practices acknowledged that there is a
sacred feminine energy in the universe and it can be
a way of honoring the sacred feminine, which really looks
different than are very pale dominated history long history of
organized religion. Definitely, and again I can see why for
younger folks like ourselves that's more appealing than organized religion.
(17:59):
It makes perfect sense exactly. Now there's another theory out there,
which I call the millennial generation theory. Right, so beyond
linking the feminine to the divine. Part of the resurgence
can also potentially be explained by the characteristics that our
generation holds first and foremost. You may have heard the
rumor the reputation out there that we millennials are a
(18:22):
little self centered and what a better thing to do
and read all about yourself and your unique place in
the universe. Of course, our generation is into this because
it's all about you exactly, Amelia Harnish writes over in
Refineer between nine. Of course, millennials are often derided as
quote self obsessed, but don't get it twisted. Self obsessed
(18:44):
does not necessarily mean selfish. One has to remember that
millennials have been let down over and over again. We've
been told that we were post racial and post feminist,
that equality have been reached, and yet we all experienced
racism and sexism constantly, and when we speak about it
online or tempt to organize for change, were derided as
quote whiners or snowflakes and told to shut up and
(19:05):
stop complaining. We were told to work hard and we'd
be rewarded. Instead, we graduated into erect economy, enormous debt,
and an ever more unstable world. It's no wonder we
want to be able to trust some deep wisdom within
ourselves we can't trust anyone else. I am so into
Amelia Harnish's piece for a Refinery twenty nine. I mean
(19:27):
it plays right into the trend that millennials are rejecting institutions,
and this is like a personal alternative to an institution.
It's the divinity within it is. And when you feel
like you can't trust anyone, and you feel like you
can't trust institutions, you really have to look within and
find things to trust within yourself. And I think that
horoscopes help you connect to that. I agree now to
(19:51):
be a little meta here to go one step further
on the millennial as a generation makes sense for this
astrology resurgence. If you look to the stars and look
at our generations star chart, we actually share some interesting
astrological characteristics. Now I don't proclaim to know what half
(20:11):
of these words mean, but here's what we've read. Apparently
we have a lot of key similarities in our natal charts.
Neptune stays about thirteen years in a sign, so it
can influence an entire generation. And Neptune is confusion delusion
and illusion does not sound like our millennial generation confusion,
(20:32):
delusion and illusion. According to Angel, the astrologer that Amelia
who wrote this article Amelia Harnish one to have a
reading with. She says, most of your generation has Neptune
in Capricorn, which is a business like sign. So your
generation sees spirituality as business and business as spiritual, which
(20:53):
from a career development standpoint, really struck me as true
about millennials because we're not just looking for careers that
pay the bills. We're looking for careers that fulfill our purpose.
And that's a very new and unique characteristic of our generation.
That reminded me of that connection to business and spirituality. Well,
that connects so nicely to the point that you made
earlier that I think we'll get into more in just
(21:13):
a minute, which is this idea that for a lot
of millennials were so grounded in things like spirituality and
social change that we expect those things to infuse all
aspects of life. And so we're gonna go buy a cheeseburger,
it better be an ethically sourced cheeseburger where they give
half the profits to some good cause. Otherwise we're not
into it totally. I mean, how many of our episodes
(21:34):
hit on that very concept. It's clearly a thing with millennials,
and I think you see a lot of savvy businesses
trying to tap into that these days. Oh I'm so
glad you mentioned that, because I have to acknowledge that
social justice is a big part of the modern day
astrology movement. Let's take a quick break and when we
come back, we'll look at some of the leading women
(21:56):
of the astrology movement who are infusing all of their
horse scopes with a lot of social justice. We'll be
right back after this. And we are back, and we
have to talk about a very cool astrologist, astrology expert,
(22:20):
horoscope writer, badass boss lady of astrology, the l A
based Johnny Nicholas. Full disclosure, Johnny is my favorite. I
await her horoscopes to drop like I'm waiting for Beyonce album.
When it comes. I stopped everything and I read them. Honestly,
Johnny is like a poet. Go and look at some
(22:42):
of her writing. You know, you think you're just reading
a horoscope, but it's so beautifully written sometimes it almost
gives me chills. I totally believe that and there's a
lot of that combination of astrology and poetry on the
Internet as well. Johnny is really symbolic of this latest
iteration of the strology run assance. She made a name
for herself with quote politically charged and deeply pragmatic readings.
(23:07):
According to Lenny Letter, She's been profiled by The l
A Times, featured in BuzzFeed, The Cut, and Nylon. Her
horoscopes come out on Mondays, but on any given day
you might find her reading Cardi B's chart for the
listeners of a hip hop radio show, or explaining why
the eclipse was bad news for Trump. And now she's
training a generation of astrologers through classes on her own website.
(23:30):
Her essay on the Star Signs and Trump was one
of my favorite reads of the year, if you could
take that was a ven diagram of things bridget love,
bashing Trump, and astrology. I was in heaven. I was like,
oh my god, this is nothing will ever be more
fitting for me than this. It was written for you,
it was written for me, written in the stars, written
for me. I love it. You know it's funny. She
(23:52):
says that the combination of astrology and social justice for
her was not super intentional. It was just actual. She
actually is on the record saying, listen, astrology is just
my skill set. Social justice is my passion, So partly
it's just me. Also, astrology is all about commenting on
humans and the human experience. It's about our decisions and
(24:15):
our movements and all of that. So to me, I
don't understand under what circumstances would your politics not come
into your astrology exactly. If we're making this point that
spirituality sort of infuses everything we do, from the things
that we buy, from the movies that we see, of course,
it would infuse social change politics and our social and
political landscape exactly. And I really love what she's all about.
(24:38):
She's not just sort of social justice washing her craft
like we've seen some corporations do. Um. You know, this
is not just about making feminism sell her stuff more.
It's inherent to who she is. But then she went
on to say this, which which caused me some pausitis.
And this is where I kind of like the skincare debate.
This is where I feel some personal tension. She says,
(25:00):
we are all in desperate need of being reflective. We
all deeply crave a reflection because the reflection kind of
unlocked something in us, and then it helps us to
help find our agency. And that last part really struck
me because your personal agency, your ability to make change
in your life, to me, seems directly in contradiction with
(25:23):
this idea that things are sort of predestined in the
stars that are written in the stars. So the question is,
doesn't does reading your zodiac help you find a sense
of personal agency or does it do the opposite and
give you an excuse to explain why things aren't working
in your life or are working in your life? You
know what I mean. I know what you mean, And
(25:44):
I have two thoughts on that. One is that I
don't know if you saw recently, Erica Badou got into
a little bit of hot water because she gave this
really wild interview wherein she said that she saw the
good and Hitler because he was a good painter, And
when the interviewer pushed back and said that's deeply offensive.
Would you like to take that again? She said, well,
(26:05):
I guess that's just the Pisces in me, which she
really um for all. I was like, well, she really
used fell back on her zodiac as a way to
explain like, oh, did I just say something really offensive. Well,
I'm a Pisces. Well that's what I'm saying it. I
think it can run the risk of giving people the
opportunity to shirk their agency and and say, well, this
(26:27):
is just who I am. It's fixed trade, you know,
and say it's destined in the stars that I'm going
to be flaky or whatever. Yeah. For me, when I
read my horoscope, oftentimes I'm more attuned to that sort
of negative things that's saying about me, and so I
actually use it too as a way of maybe finding
personal agency. So you know, I'm a Pisces as one
(26:48):
in March fourteen, and traits about Pisces are supposedly flighty
and emotional and intuitive and creative. And so I when
I read my horoscope and it's saying, well, you know,
watch out for this negative trait that might pop up
on this day, I like to think that I use
that as a warning to not do that, and it
(27:09):
takes some personal agency. It's kind of like a challenge
to be better exactly. So if my horoscope says you're
going to feel X y Z on this date, your
instinct is going to be to do this. You should
probably do that. It helps to be a little bit
more mindful of oh am, I reacting the way that
my horoscope said I would, and is there a better
way to react? Yeah, it kind of creates an opportunity
(27:30):
for meta cognition, like think about the way you're thinking. Yeah,
And honestly, I know that horoscopes get a lot of shade,
but that's really how I use it. I just use
it as a way to check in with my own behavior,
how I'm feeling and test sort of hit the brakes
on something and course correct something that's not going well. Yes,
and I think that's a really positive way to look
at horoscopes. It can be twisted, and I don't think
(27:54):
it's healthy to look at your horoscope and say, oh, well,
this is how my life is going to be, you know,
or feel like it's already predestined. I'm going to have
a bad day today or I'm gonna have a great
day today, and sort of get complacent and not feel
like you're an agent of change in your own life.
But yeah, I mean, as long as we're not doing that,
I think they can be relatively harmless. However, there's one
(28:16):
other argument that came up from Amanda Hess in the
New York Times. I find like Amanda Hess and I
must be reading all the same because every time I
dive deep into a topic for Sminty, somehow Amanda Hess
comes up and her whole series for The New York
Times on Amanda on the Internet. What is it called?
Do you know? Like? Um, you know what? Internetting? Interneting
(28:39):
with Amanda Hess is so great. And this came up
in one of her internetting columns, quick thing. You know
where she got her start here in d C the
City Paper. She was, Oh, yeah, I adore her. She's great.
I'm sad I never met her. Did you meet her?
I wish? I wish too. She's really cool, Amanda call us.
We want to be friends anyway. She has a very
(29:01):
uh I wouldn't say salty, but a cutting take on
the whole phenomenon and the rise of zodiac popularity, and
she says it's much more about the medium than the message. Basically,
she says zodiacs were pretty much designed for the digital era.
And she makes a really good point. She says, quote,
(29:25):
I think the astrology boomlet as in tiny boom owes
as much to the dynamics of the modern Internet, as
it does to any sort of cosmic significance about the
millennials place in the universe. Astrology checks several boxes for
viral happy content. It provides an easy framework for endlessly
(29:45):
personalized material, targets women, and accesses nineties nostalgia. It's the
cosmic BuzzFeed quiz that's so good and so true. One
of my favorite astrology based Twitter accounts is stro Poets.
I mean it's called astro Poets, but it's really more
sort of pop culture astrology, and so each tweet almost
(30:07):
exists as this standalone absurdest point that it's so it's
so funny and weird that you can't help but love it.
And so they'll often break down different things like, oh,
each sign as a Lady Gaga lyric, or each sign
as a sext. So here's a great example, cancer sexed.
It's a whull moon, blinky face scorpio. Yeah it's lit,
(30:30):
but who is this l O L? So it's absurdest.
It really doesn't make a lot of sense, but if
you if it's your sign somehow, every time I see it,
I'm like, oh, that's so met even though it's nonsensical, right, Well,
they like have these fake conversations, like fake text conversations
and other sort of celebrity driven absurdities. But man, it's
hard to pack that much absurdity into a little tweet.
(30:53):
So that's an impressive poetic feet in and of itself.
You're gonna actually appreciate this. And so I always look
for my astro poet reading things, even though it's just
a tweet. And just the other day, my reading for
the week of January says, what is it about passion
that makes people think that it requires no planning? They
must not know you? And I thought if Emily read,
(31:13):
she would say that is perfect for Bridge, and it
was for me. Again, it's these little funny but true. Yeah,
it's like these little these little nuggets of humor, sometimes
absurdest but sometimes very meaningful. I love that. And you
know what's kind of interesting about modern day astrology writing
like that is that everyone who's writing it kind of
(31:35):
does so with a nod nod, wink wink. Amanda Hess
writes quote, you don't have to actually believe in astrology
to be into it. That position is best exemplified by
the Twitter meme quote astrology is fake but and which
like goes on to say, but isn't this true? You know,
we all acknowledge that it's bullsh but read into how
(31:55):
true this is, you know, this sort of like acceptance
that you don't need to believe it. But oh my god,
isn't it on point exactly? And you actually just made
me think of another reason why I love astrology writing
so much. It's because so much of the writing on
the Internet takes itself very seriously, is very stuffy, is
very yeah, it feels very serious, and astrology writing isn't
(32:16):
that way. To be into astrology, you kind of have
to be in on that wink wink nod nod vibe.
And I find that, you know, when I read astrology writing,
it's usually either meaningful or it's funny, and people it's
written for people who don't take it too seriously. And
that's the kind of writing that I want to read.
And so I just want to underscore that by saying, oftentimes,
(32:37):
why I am drawn to this, it's because it's good writing,
it's good content, and it's almost sometimes almost satirical, which
is actually very different than the sincere advice of traditional
newspaper astrologers. Amanda Hess says, many successful modern astrologists adopt
a ride distance to their subject matter. She references the
cuts resident astrologer who calls herself Madam Clairvoyant, and then
(33:02):
the poet and essayist Melissa Broder, who offers quote Lenny
Scopes on Lenny Letter, which read like a slightly sarcastic
version of the zodiac that undercut the practice even as
they reinforce it. There's a silly kind of pleasure to
be taken in twisting scientific data points, birth dates, orbits,
planetary alignments into little morality plays about our inconsequential personal dramas.
(33:28):
I love that, Like that is exactly why it's so good.
It can be. I'm a second all I know, and
then this is so good. It often taps in to
something that is absurdist or humorist in a way that
I feel like no one else is really doing. It
sort of shows us the absurdity of the world, the
absurdity of our own behavior, and sort of makes fun
(33:51):
of it in a way that feels both comforting and
and not a bad way to sort of laugh at
your place in this planet, you know what I mean. Yeah,
it's the harm exactly. That's why I love astro poets
so much because it really does encourage me to laugh
at some of my own frailties. It will be like
somewhere Pisces out there has eighteen unread text and I'm like, yeah,
(34:12):
but sure do like instead of it gives you the
space to, instead of beating yourself up about something that
you feel weird about, just sort of laugh at it.
I love it. Whether you think that astrology is on
the rise because of the unique star positions for our
entire generation when we were all born, or because we're
(34:33):
self obsessed millennials who love to not believe in traditional
institutions and rather seek out feminine divinity within ourselves, or
like Amanda has points out, you think that it was
just made for Instagram and the era of social media,
or it's a survival technique for how you're coping with
the era of Trump. I think the rise of horoscopes
(34:55):
is both non surprising to me and comforting, and I'm
okay admitting that. I'm very okay admitting it. I was
a little skittish before this episode to admit it, but
I'm okay with it now, and I think we should
all be reclaiming things that have been sort of cast
aside as girly or feminine and and un serious and say, yeah,
I like this, so we should have Josh and check
(35:18):
in here and be like, are y'all hearing this? Yeah
we should. Yes, don't shame me for being into my horoscope.
I'm telling you I've made major life choices. Okay, well
that actually concerns me. I mean, okay, what do you
mean by that? What do you mean by that? If
I'm trying to give an example, Oh, perfect example is
(35:41):
this podcast. So if you know the story of how
he's got on this podcast together, which is that I
was out of work. I had been laid off unexpectedly
from a job that I loved and was sort of
in this weird ether of I probably could get another job,
but I don't know offers not not sort I'm sure
what to do. You called me and said I have
a great offer for you. I texted you, yes, I
was at render. You texted me and said, don't do
(36:03):
anything yet, and I want to talk to you. I figure,
I said, are you still searching for a job? Do
not take anything, Which it's already sounds kind of like
the kind of text that you would get, you know,
and think this is a sign. But then I read
my horoscope and it said something about along the lines
of accepting new things. You know, the universe is going
to provide for you. This is a scary time. And
then I got that text from you, and so that
(36:23):
made me. You know, I'm the kind of person who's
a little bit into hippie dippie stuff, so I'm like
always looking for signs, and I thought, this is a sign.
I love it. I'm waiting for one of those signs
right now. Myself read those horoscope I'm ready to read
some horoscopes. And actually, as we wrap up today's episode,
now might be a good time for me to confess
(36:47):
some news to you all, my beloved Sminty listeners. At
the end of this month, I am very sad to
say that I will actually be moving on from stuff
Mom never told you, which is bitter sweet. It's sad.
I'm really going to miss collaborating with you, Bridget I
(37:07):
feel like in so many ways we were just getting started.
But it's also an opportunity, right, So there's a lot
of reasons behind this decision, but the primary reality is
that I'm trying to bring a lot of focus to
my work this year, and Smindy has been an opportunity
of a lifetime, a privilege and a pleasure. But I'm
(37:27):
going to actually be launching a podcast all about career development,
so all about the work I do it boss Up
about personal and professional development for women who are navigating
career transition and considering entrepreneurship from a feminist lens. Right, So,
I'm by no means leaving the universe of podcasting, but
(37:48):
I am sadly leaving this particular, fabulous, fiercely feminist podcast
with you, Bridget. But I'm very sad about um. And
for those of you who can't join me in Denver
this month for an in person hang out Sash, I
want to let you know that I'm actually hosting a
live webinar at the end of this month just for
(38:09):
Sinty listeners who want to talk with me directly about
what's going on this transition and learn a little bit
more about where I'm headed next in my next venture.
So if you want to join me on a webinar
for that live conversation will be me really talking to
you Sminty listeners about what's happening and where I'm headed next.
You can go to bost up dot org slash sminty
(38:31):
that's bossed up dot org slash s m n t
y and sign up to join me then. But don't worry' all.
We've got like seven more episodes coming your way this month,
so I'm not heading anywhere fast. But I do want
to say it's been an absolute pleasure and a delight
to be a part of this, And I really feel
like this departure is too soon, um, but hope that
(38:53):
we can continue Boston up in your earbuds UM soon.
You can probably tell by my voice I can't. I'm
it's emotional for me, but I mean, I can't even
express how much this is meant to me to do
with you, Emily. UM, I also will be here in
your earbuds, but you know it's doing this. I there's
(39:16):
no one else I would have wanted to go on
this venture with. I can't even imagine doing this not
with you, and You've just it's just been in delight. I'm, I'm,
I feel like we sort of just got into our
groove in a kind of way, and you know, I
know that you're onto bigger and better as always. But
(39:38):
you know this will I feel like this will always
be your home. I almost this is so silly. I'm sorry.
It's hard. It's hard. And we've done a few episodes
where we knew this was going to be the vibe
and it was difficult. So if you've heard episodes that
have been recorded recently where you're thinking, oh, their energy
seems different, that could be why. Because it is hard.
(40:00):
It's hard, you know, to feel like you're in this
with a good friend and then when that good friend
goes on to do something really cool but not with me,
it's hard. It's like, um, yeah, you get it. Well,
I have to say that the show will go on,
and you know, we stepped into some big shoes with
(40:20):
filling in for Kristen and Caroline, and you are carrying
the torch like a boss, Bridget, and the show will
go on and it will be great. And like we
said right before the end of the year, what has
made Stuff I've never told you amazing has always been
the listeners. So listen. How Stuff Works is committed to
making this show awesome, and you, Bridget, are an awesome
(40:42):
part of how they're going to make that happen. So
I am sad to be leaving, but the show is
not over yet with me, y'all. We've got another bunch
of episodes coming your way. But as a reminder, if
you do want to talk one and one, learn more
about my next adventure, and just stay connected and converse
with me directly about this transition. Boston up dot org.
That's b O s s E d up dot org
(41:03):
slash Sminty and be on the lookout for Emily's new
astrology focused venture. Okay, I wish I had an astrology podcast.
Oh god, I would die it should be. I actually
have no idea. You were so into this, so I'm
so happy to hear then started this episode like you
were like, oh my god, I'm just gonna roll arize
and thought this was going to be me defending my
(41:25):
interest in astrology and you talking about why it's b
S and then all the listeners being like Emily's right, Bridget,
Bridget shouldn't be in a strategy. Astrology is dumb, and
then you feeling sad for a week. He looked so
vindicated when I was like, oh, I went to a
palm reader too. I never thought, Yeah, that was that
came out of nowhere. I was happy with that, but
it's like me as a virgo, it's so not like you.
(41:47):
You know, who else is a virgo? Obviously she's like
virgo idols. First time I met you, I knew you
were a Virgo. I knew it. I'm not kidding. I
thought in my head you are a virgo and you
are a I am. Okay, y'all, we want to hear
from you. We should wrap this episode up, but yes,
let's keep talking about our zodiac. Um So, sminty listeners,
(42:10):
where do you fall on this pseudo science, new wave
substitute for religion for millennials? How do you feel about
reading your horoscope? What does astrology like? What's your take
on all this? We can't wait to hear from you,
So hit us up on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,
on Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You, And as always,
our inbox is open at mom Stuff at how stuff
(42:32):
works dot com
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
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Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
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