October 28, 2009 • 28 mins
In popular culture, witchcraft is commonly associated with women, but in fact, men can be witches, too. In this special Halloween episode, Molly and Cristen discuss the history, practices and many different definitions and conceptions of witches.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to stuff mom never told you from house top
works dot com. Hey, eron, welcome to the podcast. Is
(00:25):
this Kristen, This is Molly? So Molly? Yes, Halloween season
is a pawn us. Yes, this is supposed to be
our spoo keep podcast keep podcast. And you know what
this time of year makes me think of? What song
comes to mind? Witchy Woman by the Eagles or Season
of the Witch by Donovan. Yeah, I'm trying to think
(00:45):
if I can name any other songs, what songs about witches? Well,
when we think about all these songs about witches, like
Witchy Woman, Season of the Witch, what comes to mind
a woman? Yes? Why are which is always associated with women? Yeah?
Because I used to think that, well, which is a woman?
Because the warlock is a man, but name Molly, two
different things entirely. Both men and women can be witches.
(01:09):
So I think for this Halloween, let's set the record
straight on witches. Okay, let's do it. Do they have
green faces? Do they ride on brooms? These are things
I need to know. Yes, do they really like black cats?
Is it still a great Halloween costume? That one I
can answer? Yes? Okay, So now we started researching witches
(01:31):
and we found out that there's really no one definition
for a witch. It means different things to different people.
But there are some notable characteristics that have emerged. These
are people who meet secretly at night, indulge in cannibalism,
have sex with the devil, performed black magic, and they
usually don't wear many clothes. I've realized from our readings, right,
we have this stereotypical which costs in mind, but I mean,
(01:52):
if you really want to be a witch for Halloween,
walk around naked. So they also use incantations, which are
formulas or chance to invoke evil spirits. They use divination
and oracles, emulets and chalms, potions, dolls, and they can
use all of this for good, as the Wizard of
Oz pointed out, or for evil. Um. Now, they had
(02:15):
all of these things in all sorts of cultures dating
back and and all cultures through history. There have been
people who have used incantations, who have had, like you know,
these elements of sorcery. It's always been part of folklore,
but the idea of a witch itself only emerged in
Europe at the end of the Middle Ages. And this
idea of the which arises during the Reformation, in which um, uh,
(02:39):
we have the birth of the Protestant Church, and then
we also have a lot of stuff going on in
the Catholic Church where they're really trying to clean house
and get rid of heretics. Yeah, and you know what
that means, what, let's get rid of witches. And we
do this because in fourteen eighty four Pope Innocent put
out a papal bull, which is just a fancy word
for document, and I wish we called all documents bulls.
(03:01):
But anyway, he puts out this document that condemned witchcraft
is Satanism and it's the worst of all possible heresies.
And this is when, um, this association with the witch
and the devil gets made, because at that time, is
there anything worse than the devil? No, the devil has
caused all sorts of trauma up until this point, like
the plague, people have died. If we need to get
(03:22):
rid of the devil, and so in looking for a scapegoat.
After this paper bull comes out, these inquisitors named Heinrich
Kramer and Joseph Springer write a book that probably does
the most sort of damage women and witches, which is
called I Might pronounce this wrong malius a meleficarum a
(03:42):
k A. Hammer of the Witches, which is what we'll
call it from now on because Hammer of the Witches
is so much cooler as a name. Yeah, Hammer of
the Witches is a pretty radical name for a book. Um.
And this was the first book that really lashed out
against women as witches. This was the soul defining characteristic
(04:03):
of this book because other people had written about which
is in the need to get them out and punish
them for their their devil dealings. But uh, Heinrich Kramer
really had a boned pick with women as which is,
for instance, because they said that specifically midwives surpass all
others in wickedness, and they thought that women were definitely
(04:23):
more prone to be witches because of the supposed carnality
of women, because we have this uncontrolled sexual lust that
would lead us into the snares of the devil. And
we were also um feebler and intellect so we wouldn't
be able to resist him with any sort of you know,
smarts or wits. Um. But you know, the thing is,
it's not just that Kramer was an awful misogynist, although
(04:46):
that's how the book reads. It was actually a pretty
well um researched and cited books. It cited a lot
of the scholars of the time, so you know, yeah,
it was damaging, but people try to try to give
Kramer a little bit of a now and at the
same time, and this is coming from a paper by
Tama herzig Um in the Middle Ages. On the flip
side of this witchcraft witchery sorcery stuff going on, Um,
(05:11):
you have this idea of the mystical sainthood and saintly
female mystics who are also gaining prominence in the church.
And while she's the emblem of piety, the witch would
be her mirror image, this evil woman. And there are
thoughts that maybe this idea of the female which is
more popularized to downplay the authority of these female mystics
(05:35):
in the church at that time, which was very male dominated.
So we have this book come out and even though
it's very misogynist and says that women are are really
more likely become witches and midwives especially are just which
incarnate Um, we found a lot of sources that say,
you know, this book is important, but it's not the
(05:55):
only reason why we think of women as witches. It's
not the reason that the women were killed because it
was thought to be witches. Um and Encyclopedia Britannica says
there's really no satisfactory explanation for why women were the
most accused of witchcraft and the most that died. And
let's throw out some numbers. They claim that about a
(06:16):
hundred and ten thousand people were tried for witchcraft and
no more than forty to sixty were executed. Not millions
and millions as sometimes is reported, but forty to sixty
thousand still kind of behind number. You're right, I shouldn't
just qualifying the numbers of people executed. I shouldn't just
(06:37):
write that off as nothing. But I feel like that's
when you read a lot of these essays, that's what
the scholars do. They say, Oh, it's not as big
a deal as you think, and oh, it wasn't an
attack on women, but they never really were. Yeah, they
never really explained why it wasn't an attack on women,
because we have this book that says midwives are bad.
Midwives are bad, and women are full of carnal lust
(06:59):
and they're souls are basically poorous, devil absorbing sponges. But
there are a few other explanations that do make some
sense to me. Um, Like we said, at that time,
the devil was just the greatest enemy of the church.
And you know, when you've got a Protestant Reformation and
this Catholic counter Reformation going on, it emphasized, emphasizes the
idea that you will loan are responsible for your own salvation.
(07:22):
So it divides people into good going to heaven and
bad not going to heaven. So obviously you don't want
to be bad, so it's much more easier to blame
sin on your neighbor. Yeah, and it also is a
simple way to explain misfortune, general misfortune that happens in life,
such as stillborn children, or crops failing or plague befalling
(07:46):
your house. Of course, it's witchcraft because at that time
they don't know, they don't have the knowledge of the
scholarship to know exactly what's happening. They don't know, you
know that maybe it was a woman's nutrition or uh,
poor uterus or something that caused the child to die
in the womb, so they blame it on the midwife.
It's a way just to make sense of inequality. You know,
(08:08):
if your crops fail, and that was one of the
most common things that happened that led to an accusation
of witchcraft. UM. It was it was not you know,
things like people growing a third nose. It was really
simple suspicions involving livestock, crops, storms, disease, property and inherence, inheritance,
sexual dysfunction, family feuds, marild discord um, sibling rivalries, and
(08:30):
local politics. It's not, you know, it's not like anyone
turned anyone into a toad. But if your crops fail,
and remember that your neighbor looked at you funny, then hey,
let's blame it on that. And there's also an interesting
connection between UH birth control and which is and this
comes from UM a paper by Gunner Heilson an Auto
(08:50):
steiger Um called witchcraft, population Catastrophe and economic Crisis and
Renaissance Europe and UM it points to the malius malefica
arm ak, a hammer of the witches that defines the
concept of birth control as quote seven methods by which
the witches infect the venereal act and conception of the womb.
(09:10):
So in these periods of lower birth rate, they would
look to the witches as having infected the wombs of
the women, and it wasn't just their womb. If a
man couldn't perform, like I said, if it was a
cause of sexual dysfunction, obviously that was the witch's fault too.
But these early midwives were the ones that had the
most you know, all thought was rudimentary at the time.
(09:30):
They had the most knowledge of how a woman's body worked,
and so when birthrates were low after things like the play,
they needed to get the populations of your back up.
They need to get these witches away from the women,
and they're they're eating children and causing abortion methods. But
you know, like we said, it was just probably a
baby dying because of malnutrition or something like that. So
(09:52):
once they got rid of the witches, these historians tracked
um population surges, and generally when they got rid of
witches and had witch hunts, populations surged after that, even
when you accounted for things like wars and other things
that have been depleting the population, things that would naturally
cause baby booms, they would just point to the witches.
And so then this perpetuates the idea that which is
(10:13):
as women are evil, right, And so you know, one
thing I did find interesting though, when um, we're researching
this podcast, Christen is, we have these um you know,
probably Monty Python inspired uh images of what they did
to witches, you know, throwing them into ponds to see
if they would flow, and pricking them to see if
they'd bleed, and and um, things like that. But it
(10:34):
really wasn't as widespread. Again, you know, this could just
be scholars downplaying it, like they seemed to about everything
with witches, but they really weren't that cruel to them.
All over all these countries it was a pretty um
localized phenomenon. Places where a local judge was holding trow
would be that would be a place where be much
more likely to have these weird, awful tortures, whereas if
(10:54):
they were more let's say in a town and a um,
a keen or a judge was present ding over this,
it would probably be more of a of a decent
trial by our standards. And one more interesting thing you
know we hear about you know, numbers and numbers, but
the fact is if you killed um one alleged which
you could make a pamphlet out of it is when
(11:15):
I was reading and just just just to read it
to all the towns and that would scare everyone off
of of thinking, you know, that it was a witch,
that they had gotten the witch, that they didn't need
to persecute as me people, Oh so use a witch,
a single witch as an example propaganda, propaganda, which propaganda.
So now that's Europe in the Middle Ages, probably if
(11:35):
you live in the United States. The most um dramatic
example of a witch hunt we have are the Salem
witch trials. Yes, let's travel back in time too, in Salem, Massachusetts,
when we have an outbreak of witch hunts and witch
trials that all started when two young girls started I
kind of crazy, having convulsions, screaming. They were saying that
(11:59):
they were being pit or bitten, and so naturally who's
to blame? Which is which is? So we were reading
an interesting article by Elizabeth Rice called Confessor Deny What's
a Witch to Do? And when you read about the
Salem witch Trials, a lot of women just confess there
were witches, which, you know, may people think, well, heck,
they are witches. And she links this to Puritan beliefs
(12:21):
at the time. Now, she points out that Puritan theology
does not say that, you know, the women are necessarily
the weaker sex, and they're just going to be attracting
uh Satan's demons more easily and more readily than men.
But she was saying that there was a difference in
Puritan piety between men and women. For instance, um, if
(12:44):
a woman is confessing her sins during that time, she
would take on more guilt as being a broken, sinful
person on the whole, whereas um Puritan men at the
time would only point to minor instances of sinning. So
chas you know, well, yes i gambled that one time,
but you know, I'm still an upright person. So it
(13:05):
seemed like there was just a little more a little
more guilt on puritu women's shoulders, and so they were
more likely to confess to these these crimes. Right. It
was almost like they saw just an ordinary sin as
an example of an entire vile nature. And then the
article also so that some women confess, because they said, hey,
if you confess, you can help us, we won't hang you.
(13:25):
So obviously a lot of women just got out of
their way, whereas some women would say, well, I'm not
going to confess to a sinful nature. And when they
wouldn't confess to any sin, at all. Then they thought, well,
of course they're witches. Everyone has sin. Yeah, so it's
sort of you know, darned if you do, darned if
you don't. And so over a period of nine months,
you have more than a hundred people who were placed
in prison um for being witches, and twenty are executed.
(13:48):
Arim chapter it is. And that's that's another one where
you know, in hindsight we try, and I don't know,
give the Puritans motives for why they did what they
did and say, oh, we're not like that anymore. But
the fact of the matter is that the battle against
witches is not over. Yeah, which brings us to modern
(14:08):
day christ And we are reading a Reuters report from
just last month about how so many women are being murdered,
just hacked to death because they are alleged witches. And
this is happening in countries ranching from South Africa to India.
And there are children living homeless on the streets because
they're suspected of being witches and their families drive them out. Um.
(14:29):
They don't have numbers for how many are being killed,
but it's at least tens of thousands. And then when
you add in beatings and taking away the property. This
could possibly be affecting millions of women, and the u
N and the other speakers who came together to make
this report said that a lot of the problem is
poverty and then the same thing that happened in the
Middle Ages, where people need scapegoats for why things go wrong,
(14:52):
and it just so happens that these elderly women and
children are good scapegoats. Yeah, they usually bear the brunt
of when something happens. There was one a story that
um U alleged witch was talking about where she um
I think her maybe grandson was sick and she came
(15:12):
to see him, and then the next day the boy died,
and so the mother and father blamed it on the
old woman coming to see him and somehow casting some
evil spell, and so of course she's like banished from
the tribe. And they're now number of witch camps for
these banished witches um to go and actually live in
(15:32):
a protected space so that they wouldn't be killed or
maimed by other people in their tribes. Right. In one
Guardian article from December two thousand five, there was an
estimate that four accused witches were living in six camps
in northern Ghana and UM it's basically if your relative
says I, I you know, I shunned you, I take
away my my commitment to you as a family member,
(15:55):
that's where you could go and live. They would and
turn away anyone UM and what was interest? You know,
some women would deny being witches, but others would say, yeah,
I'm I'm magical, but I only used it to protect
my own children, which is why some people thought I
was a witches. I had seven or eight children and
other children died, and an increasing number of children are
also being accused of witchcraft as well, and they're probably
(16:17):
being linked to UM women who are accused of of
being witches. Because if you if you look at the
reasons why UM women in these African countries are often
accused of witchcraft. First of all, we're talking about very rural,
isolated areas. At the same time, in those societies, women
(16:39):
are responsible for hearth and home and childcare. Makes sense, okay,
while the men are going out and traveling and hunting
and hopefully providing for the family. And one explanation that
I read for UM why women are accused of being
witches in South Africa was that the problems that happened
(16:59):
are the ones that happened at home, and since women
are in charge of what's going on at home, then
they would naturally be the root of the evil, not
the men who aren't even hanging around the house. And
there's some evidence that just in a patriarchal society, if
a woman does get some sort of economic power over
fields or over land, you know, the stereotypical man's domain,
(17:20):
then she should be stopped and the easiest way to
do that is to call her a witch. And the
u N has also pointed the finger at some pentecostal
preachers in these areas, um who are uh spreading rumors
about witches being possessed with demons and wreaking havoc and
evil on homes and ruining people's livelihoods because that gives
(17:42):
them a position of importance in these societies because they
need the pastor there to cast out the demons and
to protect people from the witchcraft. And they're actually manipulating, um,
you know, the people for personal gain because they're probably
going to support him financially as well. So there are
different levels to you this this witchcraft problem that's been
(18:03):
going on But what's interesting is that that there are
instances where an organization will go in and show a
villager that the actions they're blaming on a witch are
actually not her fault at all. You know, there was
one example in a and in the Independent that um
if an organization went in and showed that cooking over
an oven, a certain kind of oven gave a woman
(18:23):
red eyes, which is a sign of which witchcraft to them,
if they showed it was due to the oven, then
the villagers would be like, Okay, that's just the oven.
And if they could show that, you know, malaria caused
a child to die, they'd be like, okay, that's what
that was. And so to me, it was really interesting
to see how when you read these selarly accounts of
which hunts in the medieval era, they found all these
(18:45):
reasons to explain it away. Oh it wasn't you know,
it wasn't our ignorance, it wasn't an attack against women, etcetera, etcetera.
But I feel like now with what's happening in some
other countries, we kind of have evidence of them just saying, yeah,
these are women that we want to get rid of,
and there's no a real way to explain it away,
but we're not doing anything about it. Yeah, and even
the women who are cast all the camps and end
(19:07):
up at the witch camps are subject to undergoing exorcisms. Also,
even if they firmly believe that they are not possessed
by the devil and our witches. Um, they still have
to go through the motions to satiate the other tribe
people to not come after them and kill them. Right.
So I do hope that you know, people can use
(19:29):
this example of an organization going in and being like, oh, no,
you get red eyes from cooking over a stove, and
not just saying oh, you know, these people are I mean,
the danger is saying they're just too primitive to help.
But if we do give them that education, then I
think we can stop the killing of which is so
I think there is a fine line to walk between
not infringing on native culture at the same time, Uh,
(19:55):
systematically killing women and children is wrong, right, I think
we could all agree with that. Right. But if we're
talking about modern witchcraft today, Molly traveling back across the
Great Ocean to the United States, leaving Africa behind of America. Um,
the thing that I think about when I think about
which is is the Wickaned religion? Okay, tell me about
(20:17):
Christian But while the Wickaned religion is not this dark
and scary occultish art that we commonly associate with with witchcraft,
in fact, it is very it's kind of hippieish, you
really do, uh, And I hope that's not offensive to
any Wigans listening to that. I only mean that in uh,
it's very earth focused. Um, it's focused on worshiping the
(20:39):
natural forces and powers in the earth and a god
and goddess figure who maintain and sort of rule over
these forces, right, And I was interested that they make
this vow to harm nothing nothing, you know, on the
earth threat person. It's it's very much like you said
about just harnessing available forces and using them for your
(21:01):
needed purpose. And another thing that I didn't know about
WICCA was that it was established in the nineteen forties
and fifties by a man named Gerald Gardner, and he
defined witchcraft as a positive in life affirming religion and so, uh,
it really hasn't been around that long. Well, And you know,
(21:22):
when you go back and you look at these conflicting
definitions of what a witches and who a witches. That
makes a lot more sense that you know. They're kind
of taking a definition and using part of it, but
not using part of it. Yeah, and there is no
devil and no hell in in the Wiccan religion and um.
The only kind of magical energy that they use is
the energy, the natural energy of the cosmos. Now, Molly
(21:44):
and I are not ex experts in the nuances of Wicca,
but just for a little bit of overview, one thing
that caught my attention was that both men and women
are witches. Men are not warlocks because the word warlock
actually means oath aker and days back to witch hunts,
so calling a man a warlock is an insult. So really,
(22:05):
although we have the stereotype that women are witches, men
and women are witches, men and women can be witches
and um. Witches um can either practice in groups called
covens or they can practice by themselves as solitaries and um.
In the Gardenerian Wiccan tradition, there are three phases of
learning that witches go through. That starts out as a student,
(22:28):
which and then you become a practitioner slash priest or priestess,
and then you become a teacher or a high priest
or priestess, and they practice different rituals throughout the year.
And most notably, I would say, would be the one
coming up, which is Salon and it is Halloween, and
that is Sale was the Celtic festival that Halloween dates
(22:50):
back to you. So I think we've come full circle
back to Halloween, back to Halloween. So next time you
see you know, when you're out trick or treating, or
you're going to Halloween parties or you're just dressed up
at work and you see someone dress up as a witch,
you know, set the record straight. People. There are some
fun facts at there's some fun facts. Something to take
off that pointy hat. And yeah, they don't even know
(23:13):
where the pointy hat came from. It may have just
been a style at the time, not something that whitches
were like, Hey, pointy hats are awesome. Yeah, and guys
dress up as witches too. This is equal opportunity witchcraft here.
Anyone can practice it. So send us an email. Tell
us um if you are dressing up as a witch,
if not what you dressed up as, because we're always
looking for good ideas and oh you look like you mindo.
(23:36):
Some listener mail, I do want to do some listener mail, Molly,
some Molly. I've got an email here from Claudia and
this goes back to our hair podcast, and she says,
for the past two years I was growing on my hair.
Yet when it was finally getting longer, I realized long
hair is kind of boring. I'm in a creative profession,
(23:56):
and I prefer being able to style my hair differently.
With minimal ton investment, I got a good haircut and
couldn't be happier. It doesn't require or does require more
frequent trims, but I spend much less time styling it
and have more options. I realized that I was just
trying to grow my hair out because it seemed like
the feminine thing to do. I mean, what girl doesn't
want long, lovely hair, right, Well, it turns out that
(24:18):
I don't. There you go, there you go awesome, Claudia,
find a good haircut is a hard thing to do.
That's very true, and to find a stylist you like
and trust. Now, on the other hand, Nurka Nrka, I
hope I'm saying your name right. Um. Nurka loves her
long hair. She wrote in UM she is actually a
member of a forum called the long Hair Community, where
(24:41):
men and women come together to share hints on how
to grow and how to keep their locks looking healthy
by way of balanced eating, vitamins, styling such as braiding
and bunning, and natural i e. Homemade hair products. And
she had a few miss that she wanted to clear up.
And she's a long hair expert. Okay, Molly, So Miss
number one, long hair is expensive to maintain, she says
(25:01):
in truth, um, long hair is actually less expensive to
maintain than short hair um, and that women don't have
to go to the salon every six to eight weeks.
She says, One thing that I've learned in my journey
to long hair is that hair must be treated as
antique lace. All of those products, heating appliances, harsh chemicals
actually cause damage and are quite unnecessary when women believe
(25:25):
that they need these things. And of course, long hair
is expensive and it becomes a vicious cycle. Miss number two,
long hair is time consuming as many people assume that
I shoulder length hair takes a data style and twice
that length must take twice as long to deal with.
And I've found that as my hair grows longer, the
less time I spend with it. In the past, I've
dealt with a pixie cut, and every time I wash
my hair, I had to spend time blow drying and
(25:45):
styling to avoid frizz. I've got miss number three. Long
hair is considered a sign of beauty and fertility and
is therefore desired, and she says, well, people may say
this out loud, many people don't believe it. I've read
stories from women who say their friend some family insists
that they cut their hair. They will tell them that
long hair is ugly and our dirty, and they will
say that women over the age of forties should chop
(26:07):
it off. I've looked around for sites that have women
with long hair. In many cases, I'll find it there
where someone has left a comment about how it must
smell bad, or will ask how does she use the toilet,
and then on the emotional attachment to hair, she says,
this one is a hard one to address. Our hair
is something that the whole world sees. It is public,
and most of us want to look our best. As
(26:27):
for long hair, it might be a way for women
to feel the most attractive, and there may be a
religious reason for keeping long hair. May be simply a
personal preference. I think it's unfair to assign meaning to
another person's choices with how having asked them first. This
is something that long haired women deal with quite often.
People make all sorts of assumptions about us and our lifestyles,
such as you must be a hippie, or religion, you
(26:48):
must be a Pentecostal, or our priorities. You probably pay
for haircare more on haircre than you do for more
important things, and about our psychological states. You're afraid to
cut your hair because it is a secure the blanket.
So we've got the long hair in the short hair perspective. Yes.
And then one correction Molly about our long hair podcast
(27:10):
comes from Ataya Um. She wanted to point out that
our discussion on Orthodox Jewish women covering their hair was
not entirely correct. She said. Of course, every person has
her own variations, and some families may decide to change
or all for this particular custom, but in general, Orthodox
Jewish women don't have to wear a head covering unless
(27:30):
they are married, and this head covering doesn't usually cover
the entire head like the Islamic key jobs do. So
correction there, Okay, thanks for your email about hair and
send us her email about Halloween, which is wick tell
us what you're being for Halloween if you want. Yeah,
Molly and I love Halloween costumes. We did. We've had long,
(27:53):
long talks about it, which is how we started talking
about which is in the first place. Yes, And if
you want to know what I'm going to be for Halloween,
should head over to our blog and all I mentioned earlier.
It's called how to stuff And if you want to
read how Halloween works and learn more about Halloween traditions
and also learn about how witches work and witchcraft, go
to how stuff works dot com for more on this
(28:17):
and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works
dot com. Want more how stuff works, check out our
blogs on the house stuff works dot com home page
Welcome to stuff mom never told you from house top
works dot com. Hey, eron, welcome to the podcast. Is
(00:25):
this Kristen, This is Molly? So Molly? Yes, Halloween season
is a pawn us. Yes, this is supposed to be
our spoo keep podcast keep podcast. And you know what
this time of year makes me think of? What song
comes to mind? Witchy Woman by the Eagles or Season
of the Witch by Donovan. Yeah, I'm trying to think
(00:45):
if I can name any other songs, what songs about witches? Well,
when we think about all these songs about witches, like
Witchy Woman, Season of the Witch, what comes to mind
a woman? Yes? Why are which is always associated with women? Yeah?
Because I used to think that, well, which is a woman?
Because the warlock is a man, but name Molly, two
different things entirely. Both men and women can be witches.
(01:09):
So I think for this Halloween, let's set the record
straight on witches. Okay, let's do it. Do they have
green faces? Do they ride on brooms? These are things
I need to know. Yes, do they really like black cats?
Is it still a great Halloween costume? That one I
can answer? Yes? Okay, So now we started researching witches
(01:31):
and we found out that there's really no one definition
for a witch. It means different things to different people.
But there are some notable characteristics that have emerged. These
are people who meet secretly at night, indulge in cannibalism,
have sex with the devil, performed black magic, and they
usually don't wear many clothes. I've realized from our readings, right,
we have this stereotypical which costs in mind, but I mean,
(01:52):
if you really want to be a witch for Halloween,
walk around naked. So they also use incantations, which are
formulas or chance to invoke evil spirits. They use divination
and oracles, emulets and chalms, potions, dolls, and they can
use all of this for good, as the Wizard of
Oz pointed out, or for evil. Um. Now, they had
(02:15):
all of these things in all sorts of cultures dating
back and and all cultures through history. There have been
people who have used incantations, who have had, like you know,
these elements of sorcery. It's always been part of folklore,
but the idea of a witch itself only emerged in
Europe at the end of the Middle Ages. And this
idea of the which arises during the Reformation, in which um, uh,
(02:39):
we have the birth of the Protestant Church, and then
we also have a lot of stuff going on in
the Catholic Church where they're really trying to clean house
and get rid of heretics. Yeah, and you know what
that means, what, let's get rid of witches. And we
do this because in fourteen eighty four Pope Innocent put
out a papal bull, which is just a fancy word
for document, and I wish we called all documents bulls.
(03:01):
But anyway, he puts out this document that condemned witchcraft
is Satanism and it's the worst of all possible heresies.
And this is when, um, this association with the witch
and the devil gets made, because at that time, is
there anything worse than the devil? No, the devil has
caused all sorts of trauma up until this point, like
the plague, people have died. If we need to get
(03:22):
rid of the devil, and so in looking for a scapegoat.
After this paper bull comes out, these inquisitors named Heinrich
Kramer and Joseph Springer write a book that probably does
the most sort of damage women and witches, which is
called I Might pronounce this wrong malius a meleficarum a
(03:42):
k A. Hammer of the Witches, which is what we'll
call it from now on because Hammer of the Witches
is so much cooler as a name. Yeah, Hammer of
the Witches is a pretty radical name for a book. Um.
And this was the first book that really lashed out
against women as witches. This was the soul defining characteristic
(04:03):
of this book because other people had written about which
is in the need to get them out and punish
them for their their devil dealings. But uh, Heinrich Kramer
really had a boned pick with women as which is,
for instance, because they said that specifically midwives surpass all
others in wickedness, and they thought that women were definitely
(04:23):
more prone to be witches because of the supposed carnality
of women, because we have this uncontrolled sexual lust that
would lead us into the snares of the devil. And
we were also um feebler and intellect so we wouldn't
be able to resist him with any sort of you know,
smarts or wits. Um. But you know, the thing is,
it's not just that Kramer was an awful misogynist, although
(04:46):
that's how the book reads. It was actually a pretty
well um researched and cited books. It cited a lot
of the scholars of the time, so you know, yeah,
it was damaging, but people try to try to give
Kramer a little bit of a now and at the
same time, and this is coming from a paper by
Tama herzig Um in the Middle Ages. On the flip
side of this witchcraft witchery sorcery stuff going on, Um,
(05:11):
you have this idea of the mystical sainthood and saintly
female mystics who are also gaining prominence in the church.
And while she's the emblem of piety, the witch would
be her mirror image, this evil woman. And there are
thoughts that maybe this idea of the female which is
more popularized to downplay the authority of these female mystics
(05:35):
in the church at that time, which was very male dominated.
So we have this book come out and even though
it's very misogynist and says that women are are really
more likely become witches and midwives especially are just which
incarnate Um, we found a lot of sources that say,
you know, this book is important, but it's not the
(05:55):
only reason why we think of women as witches. It's
not the reason that the women were killed because it
was thought to be witches. Um and Encyclopedia Britannica says
there's really no satisfactory explanation for why women were the
most accused of witchcraft and the most that died. And
let's throw out some numbers. They claim that about a
(06:16):
hundred and ten thousand people were tried for witchcraft and
no more than forty to sixty were executed. Not millions
and millions as sometimes is reported, but forty to sixty
thousand still kind of behind number. You're right, I shouldn't
just qualifying the numbers of people executed. I shouldn't just
(06:37):
write that off as nothing. But I feel like that's
when you read a lot of these essays, that's what
the scholars do. They say, Oh, it's not as big
a deal as you think, and oh, it wasn't an
attack on women, but they never really were. Yeah, they
never really explained why it wasn't an attack on women,
because we have this book that says midwives are bad.
Midwives are bad, and women are full of carnal lust
(06:59):
and they're souls are basically poorous, devil absorbing sponges. But
there are a few other explanations that do make some
sense to me. Um, Like we said, at that time,
the devil was just the greatest enemy of the church.
And you know, when you've got a Protestant Reformation and
this Catholic counter Reformation going on, it emphasized, emphasizes the
idea that you will loan are responsible for your own salvation.
(07:22):
So it divides people into good going to heaven and
bad not going to heaven. So obviously you don't want
to be bad, so it's much more easier to blame
sin on your neighbor. Yeah, and it also is a
simple way to explain misfortune, general misfortune that happens in life,
such as stillborn children, or crops failing or plague befalling
(07:46):
your house. Of course, it's witchcraft because at that time
they don't know, they don't have the knowledge of the
scholarship to know exactly what's happening. They don't know, you
know that maybe it was a woman's nutrition or uh,
poor uterus or something that caused the child to die
in the womb, so they blame it on the midwife.
It's a way just to make sense of inequality. You know,
(08:08):
if your crops fail, and that was one of the
most common things that happened that led to an accusation
of witchcraft. UM. It was it was not you know,
things like people growing a third nose. It was really
simple suspicions involving livestock, crops, storms, disease, property and inherence, inheritance,
sexual dysfunction, family feuds, marild discord um, sibling rivalries, and
(08:30):
local politics. It's not, you know, it's not like anyone
turned anyone into a toad. But if your crops fail,
and remember that your neighbor looked at you funny, then hey,
let's blame it on that. And there's also an interesting
connection between UH birth control and which is and this
comes from UM a paper by Gunner Heilson an Auto
(08:50):
steiger Um called witchcraft, population Catastrophe and economic Crisis and
Renaissance Europe and UM it points to the malius malefica
arm ak, a hammer of the witches that defines the
concept of birth control as quote seven methods by which
the witches infect the venereal act and conception of the womb.
(09:10):
So in these periods of lower birth rate, they would
look to the witches as having infected the wombs of
the women, and it wasn't just their womb. If a
man couldn't perform, like I said, if it was a
cause of sexual dysfunction, obviously that was the witch's fault too.
But these early midwives were the ones that had the
most you know, all thought was rudimentary at the time.
(09:30):
They had the most knowledge of how a woman's body worked,
and so when birthrates were low after things like the play,
they needed to get the populations of your back up.
They need to get these witches away from the women,
and they're they're eating children and causing abortion methods. But
you know, like we said, it was just probably a
baby dying because of malnutrition or something like that. So
(09:52):
once they got rid of the witches, these historians tracked
um population surges, and generally when they got rid of
witches and had witch hunts, populations surged after that, even
when you accounted for things like wars and other things
that have been depleting the population, things that would naturally
cause baby booms, they would just point to the witches.
And so then this perpetuates the idea that which is
(10:13):
as women are evil, right, And so you know, one
thing I did find interesting though, when um, we're researching
this podcast, Christen is, we have these um you know,
probably Monty Python inspired uh images of what they did
to witches, you know, throwing them into ponds to see
if they would flow, and pricking them to see if
they'd bleed, and and um, things like that. But it
(10:34):
really wasn't as widespread. Again, you know, this could just
be scholars downplaying it, like they seemed to about everything
with witches, but they really weren't that cruel to them.
All over all these countries it was a pretty um
localized phenomenon. Places where a local judge was holding trow
would be that would be a place where be much
more likely to have these weird, awful tortures, whereas if
(10:54):
they were more let's say in a town and a um,
a keen or a judge was present ding over this,
it would probably be more of a of a decent
trial by our standards. And one more interesting thing you
know we hear about you know, numbers and numbers, but
the fact is if you killed um one alleged which
you could make a pamphlet out of it is when
(11:15):
I was reading and just just just to read it
to all the towns and that would scare everyone off
of of thinking, you know, that it was a witch,
that they had gotten the witch, that they didn't need
to persecute as me people, Oh so use a witch,
a single witch as an example propaganda, propaganda, which propaganda.
So now that's Europe in the Middle Ages, probably if
(11:35):
you live in the United States. The most um dramatic
example of a witch hunt we have are the Salem
witch trials. Yes, let's travel back in time too, in Salem, Massachusetts,
when we have an outbreak of witch hunts and witch
trials that all started when two young girls started I
kind of crazy, having convulsions, screaming. They were saying that
(11:59):
they were being pit or bitten, and so naturally who's
to blame? Which is which is? So we were reading
an interesting article by Elizabeth Rice called Confessor Deny What's
a Witch to Do? And when you read about the
Salem witch Trials, a lot of women just confess there
were witches, which, you know, may people think, well, heck,
they are witches. And she links this to Puritan beliefs
(12:21):
at the time. Now, she points out that Puritan theology
does not say that, you know, the women are necessarily
the weaker sex, and they're just going to be attracting
uh Satan's demons more easily and more readily than men.
But she was saying that there was a difference in
Puritan piety between men and women. For instance, um, if
(12:44):
a woman is confessing her sins during that time, she
would take on more guilt as being a broken, sinful
person on the whole, whereas um Puritan men at the
time would only point to minor instances of sinning. So
chas you know, well, yes i gambled that one time,
but you know, I'm still an upright person. So it
(13:05):
seemed like there was just a little more a little
more guilt on puritu women's shoulders, and so they were
more likely to confess to these these crimes. Right. It
was almost like they saw just an ordinary sin as
an example of an entire vile nature. And then the
article also so that some women confess, because they said, hey,
if you confess, you can help us, we won't hang you.
(13:25):
So obviously a lot of women just got out of
their way, whereas some women would say, well, I'm not
going to confess to a sinful nature. And when they
wouldn't confess to any sin, at all. Then they thought, well,
of course they're witches. Everyone has sin. Yeah, so it's
sort of you know, darned if you do, darned if
you don't. And so over a period of nine months,
you have more than a hundred people who were placed
in prison um for being witches, and twenty are executed.
(13:48):
Arim chapter it is. And that's that's another one where
you know, in hindsight we try, and I don't know,
give the Puritans motives for why they did what they
did and say, oh, we're not like that anymore. But
the fact of the matter is that the battle against
witches is not over. Yeah, which brings us to modern
(14:08):
day christ And we are reading a Reuters report from
just last month about how so many women are being murdered,
just hacked to death because they are alleged witches. And
this is happening in countries ranching from South Africa to India.
And there are children living homeless on the streets because
they're suspected of being witches and their families drive them out. Um.
(14:29):
They don't have numbers for how many are being killed,
but it's at least tens of thousands. And then when
you add in beatings and taking away the property. This
could possibly be affecting millions of women, and the u
N and the other speakers who came together to make
this report said that a lot of the problem is
poverty and then the same thing that happened in the
Middle Ages, where people need scapegoats for why things go wrong,
(14:52):
and it just so happens that these elderly women and
children are good scapegoats. Yeah, they usually bear the brunt
of when something happens. There was one a story that
um U alleged witch was talking about where she um
I think her maybe grandson was sick and she came
(15:12):
to see him, and then the next day the boy died,
and so the mother and father blamed it on the
old woman coming to see him and somehow casting some
evil spell, and so of course she's like banished from
the tribe. And they're now number of witch camps for
these banished witches um to go and actually live in
(15:32):
a protected space so that they wouldn't be killed or
maimed by other people in their tribes. Right. In one
Guardian article from December two thousand five, there was an
estimate that four accused witches were living in six camps
in northern Ghana and UM it's basically if your relative
says I, I you know, I shunned you, I take
away my my commitment to you as a family member,
(15:55):
that's where you could go and live. They would and
turn away anyone UM and what was interest? You know,
some women would deny being witches, but others would say, yeah,
I'm I'm magical, but I only used it to protect
my own children, which is why some people thought I
was a witches. I had seven or eight children and
other children died, and an increasing number of children are
also being accused of witchcraft as well, and they're probably
(16:17):
being linked to UM women who are accused of of
being witches. Because if you if you look at the
reasons why UM women in these African countries are often
accused of witchcraft. First of all, we're talking about very rural,
isolated areas. At the same time, in those societies, women
(16:39):
are responsible for hearth and home and childcare. Makes sense, okay,
while the men are going out and traveling and hunting
and hopefully providing for the family. And one explanation that
I read for UM why women are accused of being
witches in South Africa was that the problems that happened
(16:59):
are the ones that happened at home, and since women
are in charge of what's going on at home, then
they would naturally be the root of the evil, not
the men who aren't even hanging around the house. And
there's some evidence that just in a patriarchal society, if
a woman does get some sort of economic power over
fields or over land, you know, the stereotypical man's domain,
(17:20):
then she should be stopped and the easiest way to
do that is to call her a witch. And the
u N has also pointed the finger at some pentecostal
preachers in these areas, um who are uh spreading rumors
about witches being possessed with demons and wreaking havoc and
evil on homes and ruining people's livelihoods because that gives
(17:42):
them a position of importance in these societies because they
need the pastor there to cast out the demons and
to protect people from the witchcraft. And they're actually manipulating, um,
you know, the people for personal gain because they're probably
going to support him financially as well. So there are
different levels to you this this witchcraft problem that's been
(18:03):
going on But what's interesting is that that there are
instances where an organization will go in and show a
villager that the actions they're blaming on a witch are
actually not her fault at all. You know, there was
one example in a and in the Independent that um
if an organization went in and showed that cooking over
an oven, a certain kind of oven gave a woman
(18:23):
red eyes, which is a sign of which witchcraft to them,
if they showed it was due to the oven, then
the villagers would be like, Okay, that's just the oven.
And if they could show that, you know, malaria caused
a child to die, they'd be like, okay, that's what
that was. And so to me, it was really interesting
to see how when you read these selarly accounts of
which hunts in the medieval era, they found all these
(18:45):
reasons to explain it away. Oh it wasn't you know,
it wasn't our ignorance, it wasn't an attack against women, etcetera, etcetera.
But I feel like now with what's happening in some
other countries, we kind of have evidence of them just saying, yeah,
these are women that we want to get rid of,
and there's no a real way to explain it away,
but we're not doing anything about it. Yeah, and even
the women who are cast all the camps and end
(19:07):
up at the witch camps are subject to undergoing exorcisms. Also,
even if they firmly believe that they are not possessed
by the devil and our witches. Um, they still have
to go through the motions to satiate the other tribe
people to not come after them and kill them. Right.
So I do hope that you know, people can use
(19:29):
this example of an organization going in and being like, oh, no,
you get red eyes from cooking over a stove, and
not just saying oh, you know, these people are I mean,
the danger is saying they're just too primitive to help.
But if we do give them that education, then I
think we can stop the killing of which is so
I think there is a fine line to walk between
not infringing on native culture at the same time, Uh,
(19:55):
systematically killing women and children is wrong, right, I think
we could all agree with that. Right. But if we're
talking about modern witchcraft today, Molly traveling back across the
Great Ocean to the United States, leaving Africa behind of America. Um,
the thing that I think about when I think about
which is is the Wickaned religion? Okay, tell me about
(20:17):
Christian But while the Wickaned religion is not this dark
and scary occultish art that we commonly associate with with witchcraft,
in fact, it is very it's kind of hippieish, you
really do, uh, And I hope that's not offensive to
any Wigans listening to that. I only mean that in uh,
it's very earth focused. Um, it's focused on worshiping the
(20:39):
natural forces and powers in the earth and a god
and goddess figure who maintain and sort of rule over
these forces, right, And I was interested that they make
this vow to harm nothing nothing, you know, on the
earth threat person. It's it's very much like you said
about just harnessing available forces and using them for your
(21:01):
needed purpose. And another thing that I didn't know about
WICCA was that it was established in the nineteen forties
and fifties by a man named Gerald Gardner, and he
defined witchcraft as a positive in life affirming religion and so, uh,
it really hasn't been around that long. Well, And you know,
(21:22):
when you go back and you look at these conflicting
definitions of what a witches and who a witches. That
makes a lot more sense that you know. They're kind
of taking a definition and using part of it, but
not using part of it. Yeah, and there is no
devil and no hell in in the Wiccan religion and um.
The only kind of magical energy that they use is
the energy, the natural energy of the cosmos. Now, Molly
(21:44):
and I are not ex experts in the nuances of Wicca,
but just for a little bit of overview, one thing
that caught my attention was that both men and women
are witches. Men are not warlocks because the word warlock
actually means oath aker and days back to witch hunts,
so calling a man a warlock is an insult. So really,
(22:05):
although we have the stereotype that women are witches, men
and women are witches, men and women can be witches
and um. Witches um can either practice in groups called
covens or they can practice by themselves as solitaries and um.
In the Gardenerian Wiccan tradition, there are three phases of
learning that witches go through. That starts out as a student,
(22:28):
which and then you become a practitioner slash priest or priestess,
and then you become a teacher or a high priest
or priestess, and they practice different rituals throughout the year.
And most notably, I would say, would be the one
coming up, which is Salon and it is Halloween, and
that is Sale was the Celtic festival that Halloween dates
(22:50):
back to you. So I think we've come full circle
back to Halloween, back to Halloween. So next time you
see you know, when you're out trick or treating, or
you're going to Halloween parties or you're just dressed up
at work and you see someone dress up as a witch,
you know, set the record straight. People. There are some
fun facts at there's some fun facts. Something to take
off that pointy hat. And yeah, they don't even know
(23:13):
where the pointy hat came from. It may have just
been a style at the time, not something that whitches
were like, Hey, pointy hats are awesome. Yeah, and guys
dress up as witches too. This is equal opportunity witchcraft here.
Anyone can practice it. So send us an email. Tell
us um if you are dressing up as a witch,
if not what you dressed up as, because we're always
looking for good ideas and oh you look like you mindo.
(23:36):
Some listener mail, I do want to do some listener mail, Molly,
some Molly. I've got an email here from Claudia and
this goes back to our hair podcast, and she says,
for the past two years I was growing on my hair.
Yet when it was finally getting longer, I realized long
hair is kind of boring. I'm in a creative profession,
(23:56):
and I prefer being able to style my hair differently.
With minimal ton investment, I got a good haircut and
couldn't be happier. It doesn't require or does require more
frequent trims, but I spend much less time styling it
and have more options. I realized that I was just
trying to grow my hair out because it seemed like
the feminine thing to do. I mean, what girl doesn't
want long, lovely hair, right, Well, it turns out that
(24:18):
I don't. There you go, there you go awesome, Claudia,
find a good haircut is a hard thing to do.
That's very true, and to find a stylist you like
and trust. Now, on the other hand, Nurka Nrka, I
hope I'm saying your name right. Um. Nurka loves her
long hair. She wrote in UM she is actually a
member of a forum called the long Hair Community, where
(24:41):
men and women come together to share hints on how
to grow and how to keep their locks looking healthy
by way of balanced eating, vitamins, styling such as braiding
and bunning, and natural i e. Homemade hair products. And
she had a few miss that she wanted to clear up.
And she's a long hair expert. Okay, Molly, So Miss
number one, long hair is expensive to maintain, she says
(25:01):
in truth, um, long hair is actually less expensive to
maintain than short hair um, and that women don't have
to go to the salon every six to eight weeks.
She says, One thing that I've learned in my journey
to long hair is that hair must be treated as
antique lace. All of those products, heating appliances, harsh chemicals
actually cause damage and are quite unnecessary when women believe
(25:25):
that they need these things. And of course, long hair
is expensive and it becomes a vicious cycle. Miss number two,
long hair is time consuming as many people assume that
I shoulder length hair takes a data style and twice
that length must take twice as long to deal with.
And I've found that as my hair grows longer, the
less time I spend with it. In the past, I've
dealt with a pixie cut, and every time I wash
my hair, I had to spend time blow drying and
(25:45):
styling to avoid frizz. I've got miss number three. Long
hair is considered a sign of beauty and fertility and
is therefore desired, and she says, well, people may say
this out loud, many people don't believe it. I've read
stories from women who say their friend some family insists
that they cut their hair. They will tell them that
long hair is ugly and our dirty, and they will
say that women over the age of forties should chop
(26:07):
it off. I've looked around for sites that have women
with long hair. In many cases, I'll find it there
where someone has left a comment about how it must
smell bad, or will ask how does she use the toilet,
and then on the emotional attachment to hair, she says,
this one is a hard one to address. Our hair
is something that the whole world sees. It is public,
and most of us want to look our best. As
(26:27):
for long hair, it might be a way for women
to feel the most attractive, and there may be a
religious reason for keeping long hair. May be simply a
personal preference. I think it's unfair to assign meaning to
another person's choices with how having asked them first. This
is something that long haired women deal with quite often.
People make all sorts of assumptions about us and our lifestyles,
such as you must be a hippie, or religion, you
(26:48):
must be a Pentecostal, or our priorities. You probably pay
for haircare more on haircre than you do for more
important things, and about our psychological states. You're afraid to
cut your hair because it is a secure the blanket.
So we've got the long hair in the short hair perspective. Yes.
And then one correction Molly about our long hair podcast
(27:10):
comes from Ataya Um. She wanted to point out that
our discussion on Orthodox Jewish women covering their hair was
not entirely correct. She said. Of course, every person has
her own variations, and some families may decide to change
or all for this particular custom, but in general, Orthodox
Jewish women don't have to wear a head covering unless
(27:30):
they are married, and this head covering doesn't usually cover
the entire head like the Islamic key jobs do. So
correction there, Okay, thanks for your email about hair and
send us her email about Halloween, which is wick tell
us what you're being for Halloween if you want. Yeah,
Molly and I love Halloween costumes. We did. We've had long,
(27:53):
long talks about it, which is how we started talking
about which is in the first place. Yes, And if
you want to know what I'm going to be for Halloween,
should head over to our blog and all I mentioned earlier.
It's called how to stuff And if you want to
read how Halloween works and learn more about Halloween traditions
and also learn about how witches work and witchcraft, go
to how stuff works dot com for more on this
(28:17):
and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works
dot com. Want more how stuff works, check out our
blogs on the house stuff works dot com home page
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.