September 20, 2017 • 32 mins
When we left off in part one, Emin Pasha had become governor of Equatoria in what's now South Sudan. But things took a dramatic turn in the 1880s, leading to Henry Morton Stanley mounting a relief expedition to go get him.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody. Before we get started today, we want to
make sure everyone knows about our upcoming live shows. First up,
Holly will be at Salt Lake Comic Con September one, three.
I won't be able to make it to that one,
so past guest and friend of the show, Brian Young
will be talking with her about Lawn Cheney. Then on
(00:23):
October six am, we will be appearing as part of
New York Comic Con Presents and we'll be talking about
the first comic book. You can find out more information
on all of this ticket links everything like that if
you go to Missed in History dot com and click
the link that says live shows. Welcome to steph you
(00:45):
missed in History class from how Stuff Works dot com.
Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tray C. V.
Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. Today we are going to
finish out our podcast on a mean Pasha who was
born Edward Schnitzer and spent his childhood in university years
(01:08):
in Prussia before leaving for the Ottoman Empire to practice
medicine and eventually work in a number of government positions.
Where we left off last time, he had become the
governor of Equatoria and what's now South Sudan. We only
really have European perspectives on his time as governor. From
that point of view, he handled his position with thoughtfulness
(01:28):
and compassion, while also trying to reform the province and
carry out a range of scientific study at the same time.
In the biography I Mean Pasha his life and work,
George Schweitzer wrote, quote, under a means auspices, Equatorial Territory
was guided into unexpected paths of order and prosperity. But
(01:49):
then things took a really dramatic turn in the eighteen eighties,
leading Henry Morton Stanley, who was famous for having done
a similar journey to find Dr David Livingston and lets
the Stanley mounting a relief expedition to go find him.
So that so we're going to talk about today Stanley's
a Mean Pasha relief expedition unfolded in the context of
(02:11):
the Scramble for Africa. He and other explorers had returned
from expeditions into Africa in the mid to late nineteenth
century and described it as a place of immense natural wealth,
including lumber, ivory, rubber, gold, copper, and diamonds. In places
the land was also incredibly fertile, suitable for establishing expansive plantations.
(02:34):
These same explorers also described the African people as uncivilized and,
in their words, savage. Parts of the continent, particularly western
and Central Africa, were also still reeling from the effects
of the Transatlantic slave trade, which we talked about a
bit more in Part one. The industrial Revolution hadn't really
affected a lot of the continent, and from a European perspective,
(02:58):
that sort of industry is a hallmark of how sophisticated
and intelligent a society was. So since that industry wasn't there,
obviously that place was worse. Yeah. So, even though the
continent of Africa was home to an immensely diverse collection
of people's and nations, speaking thousands of languages, and full
of unique and complex social systems with their own art
(03:20):
and music and technology. To the European I the civilized
world should save it from Africans and then use African
labor to cheaply carry out what they thought would clearly
be a superior plan for industry and agriculture. As a result,
in the eighteen seventies and eighteen eighties, multiple European nations
began aggressively trying to colonize the African continent. This land
(03:45):
grab led to increasing tensions among the various European powers
of involved, but at the same time they didn't want
to actually go to war with each other over it.
But that eventually reached the point that the Berlin West
Africa Conference was convened from no fifteen eighty four to
February eighty five. Assembled at the request of Portugal, the
(04:07):
Berlin West Africa Conference brought Great Britain, France, Germany, Portugal,
and King Leopold the Second of Belgium together to work
out who should have which territory around the Congo River basin.
While the Berlin West Africa Conference didn't directly affect the
rest of the continent, it did lay the groundwork for
nations to apply the same basic ideas of partition and
(04:29):
colonization to other parts of Africa as well. Meanwhile, the
peoples of Africa had no representation or voice in this process,
or any real input into the colonization that followed. While
some colonial conquests did take place by force, others were
carried out with very little physical conflict for a variety
(04:49):
of reasons. Sometimes it was just obvious that the colonizing
force had much greater numbers and superior firepower, so it
seemed to make a lot more sense to just save
everybody's life lives and accept the terms. But sometimes African
leaders thought that this would be sort of a temporary measure,
one that might bring new developments and resources that would
(05:09):
ultimately be beneficial for them. By nineteen fourteen, European powers
controlled all of Africa apart from Liberia and Abyssinia, also
known as the Ethiopian Empire. Abyssinia maintained its independence, while
Liberia had been established by the American Colonization Society as
a home for free black people and former slaves from
(05:31):
the United States. Liberia declared independence on July eighteen forty seven.
The scramble for Africa fed into an uprising that directly
affected Amin Pasha's work as governor of Equatoria. In the
late nineteenth century, Sudan had been under Egyptian rule, but
in eighteen seventy six, due to financial mismanagement and an
(05:53):
overly aggressive modernization campaign, as Egypt was in so much
debt that it had to declare bankrupt. See, they should
have just made a mean Passia in charge of all that,
and it would have been fine that it does. He
carried that off Britain and France took control of Egypt's
economy in Britain eventually invaded and occupied the nation in
(06:16):
eighteen eighty two. With all of this going on, none
of the nations involved paid much attention to what was
happening in Sudan to the south. Many of Sudan's local
population were vastly dissatisfied with the colonial government. They were
tired of being exploited by European powers, didn't feel particularly
connected even to Egypt, which was their neighbor. One particular man,
(06:42):
Mohammed Ahmad ibn al Said Abdallah, was a mystic and
an ascetic who was gathering disciples as early as eighteen seventy,
and after a series of religious visions, Mohammed Ahmad proclaimed
himself to be the Mighty on June twenty nine, eight one.
In Islam, the Mahdi is essentially a divinely guided redeemer
(07:02):
who is sent to bring justice to the world, restore
the purity of Islam, and rule humanity before judgment day.
It's often translated as the guided One. As with any religion,
Different people and sects have very different interpretations. How to
consider both the Mahdi and Judgment Day, Muhammada Mad's interpretation
(07:22):
was relatively violent and apocalyptic. He started encouraging an armed
overthrow of the colonial government and raised an army to
that end, hoping to establish an Islamic nation. Today, there
are a lot of accounts, especially ones that are written
in recent years, that frame this as calling for jahad,
using the Arabic word for struggle. But English use of
(07:46):
the word jahad's i mean holy war is actually fairly new,
with its first appearance in writing according to the Oxford
English Dictionary in eighteen sixty nine. Although Islam as a
religion uses the concept of jahad in the context of
a lot of internal and external struggles that aren't violent
at all, a lot of non Muslims today interpret the
(08:08):
word jahad only as meaning holy war, that is not
at all. How contemporaneous accounts described this like I did
not find the word jihad used anywhere in any of
the primary sources that I read that were written at
the time. Instead, authorities in Egypt and Sudan described this
(08:28):
as an uprising or a revolt and we're going to
talk all about how this uprising played out after we
first paused for a bit of a sponsor break. At first,
Egyptian and Sudanese authorities didn't take this uprising, which became
known as the Modest Uprising, particularly seriously. This was in
(08:51):
spite of learnings from I Mean Pasha, who at the
time had the title of bay during this During his
time in Equatoria, he had really pay scrupulous attention to
all the various political and social and religious issues that
were playing out in the area. He not only pointed
out that conditions were right for this uprising to become
something serious, but he also offered to go and negotiate
(09:15):
himself instead. Rove Pasha, then Governor General of Sudan, dispatched
a man named Abu Saud. Abusu knew Mohammed Ahmad, so
the idea was that he could talk to him personally
and convince him to stop his anti government agitation and
then come with him back to the capitol. Instead, Abusau
deployed an armed detail to bring in Mohammed Ahmad by force,
(09:39):
at which point the Modest Force wiped out the detail
and came away with all of their weapons. The Modest
Force continued to grow from there, with people joining it
for a whole range of social and political and religious reasons.
Because Egypt was still essentially part of the Ottoman Empire,
Muslims were pretty well represented in the colonial government. I mean,
(10:00):
the Ottoman Empire was an Islamic empire, but only the
most affluent and best educated people actually had a voice
in the government, so a lot of people felt really excluded.
Some Muslims also wanted an exclusively Muslim state that was
governed directly under Islamic law. Slave traders joined the Modest
Force as well, under pressure from European allies, particularly Britain.
(10:25):
Colonial governments had tried to implement an immediate, across the
board abolition of slavery, so slave traders hoped that an
overthrow of the colonial government would allow the practice of
slavery to resume, and what eventually became known as the
Modest War or the Modest Revolution. This force defeated multiple
well armed Egyptian units between eighteen eighty one and eighteen
(10:48):
eighty three, including slaughtering a force of nearly eight thousand
men under the command of General William Hicks, and in
eighteen eighty five, they lay siege to the Sudanese capital
of Khartoum. Major General Charles George Gordon, Amin Pasha's former
employer and the former governor of Equatoria, was actually killed
in this siege against Muhammed Ahmad's orders. After taking Khartoum,
(11:12):
the Modest Force abandoned it and moved on to Omdurman.
Both Khartoum and Omdurman were well to the north of
Equatoria and Amin Pasha's capital at Lado. While the province
had seen some violence overall, these years had been more
of a watchful wait. However, Britain's withdrawal cleared the way
for the Modest Force to continue to take over the
(11:35):
rest of Sudan and into other provinces, including Equatoria. Britain's
withdrawal also cut off Aman Pasha's lines of communications with
the whole rest of the world. One of the last
communications that Amine received was a letter from new Bar Pasha,
who was the Prime Minister of Egypt, acknowledging that the
monarch was abandoning Sudan and would be unable to offer
(11:57):
him any further assistance. In this letter, Amine was given
unlimited freedom of action and assurances that if he decided
it would be best to retreat back to Egypt, efforts
would be made to work with various tribes between his
position and the border to assure his safe passage. And regardless,
he was given total carte blanche to take care of
(12:19):
himself and his garrisons. Hey, we're basically like, we can't
help you see whatever you need. And that was the
end of that. So for a while, I mean stayed put.
But eventually the modest takeover started to put more and
more pressure on the province of Equatoria. I mean, though
did not want to leave. Not only was this his
(12:41):
home now, but he knew that leaving it behind was
going to undo all that work that he had put
into it during his years as governor, which we talked
about in Part one. Eventually, though he really didn't feel
like he had any other choice, the situation became just
too dangerous. He evacuated south to Waddle and you got
to near Lake Albert. Amine had visited Uganda a number
(13:04):
of times and had tried to establish friendly relationships with
local leaders, so he wasn't wholly unfamiliar with the land
or its people. He quickly sent emissaries to the local
tribal leaders that he knew, as well as writing letters
to officials in Zanzibar in Egypt, even though he wasn't
particularly hopeful that those missives would get through. When he
(13:24):
did try to write to people anywhere else, he tried
to reassure the rest of the world that he was fine.
In a letter data January seven, he said, quote, respecting
my plans for the future, I can only repeat that
I am fully determined to stay, and even assuming that
no help comes and the province slowly goes to pieces,
(13:44):
I shall remain steadfast to the end. It is perfectly
clear to me with that with my motley crowd, a
journey right across Uganda and over the lake is an impossibility.
He went on to say that they were building new
boats and repairing their steamers and so quote their need
be no anxiety on our account. Basically, he wanted to
(14:05):
keep everyone who had evacuated with him, which included a
lot of the residents of the former Equatorian capital, together
and safe. So he got to work doing a lot
of the same things that he'd been doing in Equatoria,
establishing crops, improving roads, and trying to see to the
needs of the people he was still essentially governing. He
also offered as much aid as he could to neighboring tribes,
(14:27):
and the entire time continued on with his work as
a naturalist and anthropologist. This definitely was not easy. They
were essentially starting over as refugees, and they only had
what they had managed to carry out of Equatoria. At
one point, they lost several of their huts and a
lot of their provisions and a fire. Illnesses were common,
(14:48):
including a smallpox epidemic, and the region was also home
to a species of fly whose bites tended to cause
fevers and alterations. At some point, and the timeline is
not exactly clear, Amen had married an Abyssinian woman who
became ill in late February of seven and died on
March sixth of that year. The two of them had
(15:09):
a daughter, Farita, as well as a son who died
around the same time as his mother. Outside of Uganda,
nobody had any idea that any of this was going on.
Nobody in Europe or anywhere else in Africa had gotten
any word from Iman Pasha at all since the fall
of Khartoum. That changed when Dr Wilhelm Yunker, an explorer
(15:32):
and scientist, made his way to the eastern coast of Africa.
Yunker had been with a Mean in Equatoria for quite
some time and knew about the decision to retreat south.
He gave a much different read on a means attitude,
describing a Means last statement to him as quote, we
shall hold out until we obtain help or until we perish.
(15:53):
It sounds a lot more fatalistic than the letter that
he wrote. UH. And with this uh statement from doctor Younger,
the world decided that the Mean Pasha needed to be rescued,
and that is what we were going to talk about
after a sponsor break. As words spread that a Mean
(16:18):
Pasha was cut off from the rest of the world
and needed to be rescued, multiple organizations started trying to
organize and fund a relief expedition to either go get
him or to bring him provisions and supplies. Eventually, explorer
and journalist Henry Morton Stanley, who was already made famous
by his expedition to find Dr David Livingstone, was tapped
(16:38):
to do this, and there is already an episode on
this famous meeting between Stanley and Livingston, which is in
our archive, and we're actually going to be re airing
it as our next Saturday Classic. The Amin Pasha relief
expedition was funded by private support, the Egyptian government and
King Leopold, the second of Belgium. King Leopold's activities in
(16:59):
Africa could and probably at some point will be an
entire other episode of the show, but very briefly. Uh
He became interested in the Congo region of Africa during
Stanley's exploration there in the mid eighteen seventies, and on
February five, eighty five, he established the Congo Free State
as his personal possession under his private ownership rather than
(17:21):
a colony of Belgium. Leopold's rule over the Congo Free
State is now notorious for brutality, exploitation, and all manner
of human rights abuses. Malnutrition and disease were rampants, as
well as the use of forced labor on rubber and
palm oil plantations. So Leopold definitely had ulterior motives here,
(17:43):
and these motives were one reason why Stanley did not
take a remotely direct route to where a Mean Pasha
was believed to be. Instead, he set out on a
meandering route that would allow him to try to open
up more of the Congo to Leopold's control. Along the way,
there are also reports that he was on an ivory hunt,
(18:04):
so definitely not just about going to get a mean pasha.
The expedition arrived at Banana Point on the Congo coast
on March seven. Three months later, he arrived in Yambua,
departing from there with an advanced column made up of
three eighty three Africans and six Europeans. He left a
(18:26):
rear guard behind, which was made of two d sixty
five Africans and five Europeans for both the advance and
the rear columns. This expedition went incredibly badly. Illness, including malaria, roundworm,
tape worm, and gastro intestinal issues were rampant. So was malnutrition,
as well as an epidemic of burrowing fleas that led
(18:48):
to ulcerations and amputations. There's some speculation that cattle brought
with the advanced guard into Uganda spread an epidemic of
sleeping sickness there by Stanley's own admission the expedition and
caused the deaths of at least one thousand people, mostly
Africans employed as soldiers reporters, but also people that he
described as quote belligerent natives. For the Rear Column, it
(19:13):
was worse, a lot, a lot worse like It's one
of the possible inspirations for Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness.
That level of worse. Most of its officers died or
were killed, and a lot of the African porters either
starved to death or died from eating poisonous food. Stories
of humanitarian horrors were rampant. They are also touched on
(19:37):
in the past episode on Stanley and Livingstone. That will
be our next Saturday classics, so I don't really feel
they need to repeat the worst of them here. It
was awful. In December seven, the Advanced Column finally made
it to Lake Albert, almost eight months after having set
off from Banana Point. Stanley was too sick to continue
(19:57):
and sent an officer to look for a mean posh Ah.
They also eventually gathered up what was left of the
Rear Guard. While he was waiting, Stanley received a letter
from a mean giving a more precise account of where
he could be found, and so he sent a team
to retrieve him. On April, the team found a mean
Pasha on April and returned to Stanley with him On
(20:21):
the twenty nine. They drank a bunch of champagne to celebrate.
But the Iman Pasha Relief Expedition was not at this
point actually able to offer a mean Pasha any relief
in a mean Pasha his life and work. It was
described this way quote, A collection of famine stricken, tattered,
worn and exhausted men brought him thirty four cases of ammunition,
(20:45):
two bales of half spoiled clothes, and a letter from
the Cadive. The route taken by this expedition was anything
but that by which Amene could establish the communication so
essential to him with the outer world. So yeah, I
mean Pasha ended up aiding the relief expedition that had
(21:06):
come to aid him, but he didn't really want to
be rescued. There had been some talk in the planning
process and and all of that about whether this exhibition
was meant to resupply a Mean Pasha or to take
him out of Africa, but Stanley presented him with a
few options. He could retreat with Stanley to the coast.
(21:29):
He could continue to be governor but as part of
the Congo Free State, or he could join up with
the English East Africa Company and try to take over Uganda.
Stanley did not tell I mean Pasha about the existence
of the German East Africa Company, which he might, because
(21:50):
he was ethnically German, have found appealing. Also didn't tell
him about the fact that the German East Africa Company
was also trying to mount its own even pasha relief expedition.
So of the options offered to him, A mean didn't
really want to do any of them. All of the
options that Stanley had presented to him would require him
(22:11):
to abandon the work that he had been doing for years,
and to at least some degree, the people that he
had been living and working with all that time. Yeah, like,
if he went to be the governor of the Congo
Free State, he was probably not going to be relocating
all of these people that he had with him there.
(22:32):
And of course the people that I mean Pasha had
been governing all this time did not really like any
of these options either. At one point, his fighting force,
objecting to the idea of having to leave their home,
tried to mutiny. Then, when he was returning to waddle
I on August eighteenth of eight he was captured and
held prisoner by rebels. It was only after being released
(22:54):
that he finally relented and agreed to leave the area
with Stanley. So he the rest of Stanley's surviving straggling
force and about fifteen hundred others departed on April tenth,
eighteen eighty nine, and they reached the Indian Ocean that December.
The expedition to relieve a Mean Pasha was supposed to
take eighteen months, but it instead took a total of
(23:17):
thirty two, and after all that, Stanley didn't get to
return to Europe. The hero with a Mean Pasha in
tow Amine had always been very nearsighted, and in Zanzibar
he stepped out of a window that he thought led
onto a balcony during a celebratory dinner, and he cracked
his skull, and though he did recover, he was too
(23:38):
seriously hurt to be moved, so Stanley had to return
to Europe alone. After he recovered, I Mean stayed in Africa.
He took a job under kaiserville Helm in the second
working to advance German interests in Central Africa during the
ongoing scramble for the continent. However, this work did not
go nearly as well as his governorship of Equa Torrea had.
(24:01):
While he had been out of the Central Continent, slave
traders that he had worked so assiduously against had been
hard at work on their own, turning people against him,
and then on July one, eight ninety, Britain and Germany
signed an agreement excluding Lake Albert, which was where he
was supposed to be working from German control. He continued
(24:21):
to travel and explore in the Congo region until the
eighteen nineties, continuing to send his findings and specimens back
to Western museums. Other explorers and officials sent word back
to Europe reporting on his whereabouts. On December tenth, a
doctor Stulmann reported that he was in poor health and
had lost much of his eyesight. Once again convinced that
(24:44):
he needed relief, a German force was dispatched to fetch him,
but when they got to his last known location, he
was gone. On October eighteen nine two, a mean Pasha
was assassinated by slave traders who split his throat to
again quote his obituary quote. Thus perished miserably in the
wilds of Africa, A man who had devoted many years
(25:07):
of his life to the cause of African civilization, whose
scientific work had secured him a foremost place in the
devoted band, to whose labors we are indebted for our
knowledge of the dark continent, and whose unselfishness, amiability, and
strong sense of duty are extolled by all who came
into contact with him. I feel like that piece of obituary,
(25:28):
in addition to summing up the fact that a mean
Pasha seems to have been a generally good guy, he
was trying to do a good work, also sums up
racist statitudes about Africa. I mean Pasha's daughter Farita was
sent to Nissa, where her guardians were a mean sister
and his colleague George Schweitzer. In eighteen ninety, Henry Morton
(25:49):
Stanley published a book called In Darkest Africa, or the Quest,
Rescue and Retreat of I Mean Governor of Equatoria. It
is a very dramatic account of the relief expedition that
solidified a lot of very racist ideas about the continent
of Africa. Also, it solidified the idea of Henry Morton
(26:11):
Stanley being great. Uh. It was a colossal bestseller, But
that same year the Aborigines Protection Society in London condemned
the Amin Pasha Relief Expedition, accusing Stanley of committing atrocities
against the African population. Stanley himself also came under a
lot of scrutiny as more words spread about the horrors
(26:35):
of the expedition, particularly the rear columns behavior to return
briefly to Sudan. Although Mohammed Ahmad died of typhus in
eighty five, the Modest Force remained in control of much
of Sudan until the Battle of Omderman on September two,
and that battle was a decisive victory for the British,
(26:56):
killing more than ten thousand of the Modest Force, which
was only fifty thousand, and at that point Britain once
again established Sudan as an Anglo Egyptian colony. I mean
Pasha published note books during his lifetime, although he did
contribute to scientific journals and other publications. After his death, though,
a number of his friends and colleagues published biographies of
(27:18):
him that drew from and sometimes reprinted these letters and journals.
A lot of these are available on the Internet now
they're in the public domain. I kind of wish that
they had become as widely read as Stanley's book, because
you know, I didn't read literally every single word of
every journal that he wrote, but I found his descriptions
(27:42):
of UH life in Africa and the natural world in
Africa to be written in a more um sort of
dispassionate and non judge non judgmental way, right as a
lot of the tone of Stanley's writing is more like,
oh look how exotic and dangerous Africa is. I'm so great. Well,
(28:03):
I think you've just explained why they were not so widely.
Less sensational and more accurate is often not what sells books. Um.
As we noted earlier, we already have an episode in
the archive on Stanley's rescue of Dr Livingston that is
from back when Sarah and Dablina were hosts, and that
is actually going to be our next Saturday Classics, so
you get a week of sort of themed stuff. So
(28:26):
if you hang on til Saturday, you'll get that and
you can expand your your background knowledge on this topic.
That does the mean passion. I find him really fascinating,
and I do definitely wish that we had UH like
the perspective, more perspectives of local people, because a lot
of that was not written down by anybody. So it's
like we sort of have to put a level of
(28:48):
trust that the people who were writing about him in
these pretty positive terms were accurately assessing what was going on.
But from everything I can determine, it does seem as
though that he was liked and respected and people thought
that he was doing a pretty good job governing Equatoria
while he was there. So, uh, do you got some
(29:10):
listener mail? Yes? I do. This is from Grace. It
is about our recent episode on the h L Hunley
and it's called the Sinking of the h L Hunley.
Admittedly not anything actually to do about that sinking, which
I find delightful as an email subject line. So Grace says, Hi,
Tracy and Holly. I am another of your longtime listeners,
(29:31):
first time writers. I was listening to your latest episode
when you guys are talking about the blockade runners and
the fantasy built up around them. I am from Halifax, Nova, Scotia.
Love for the previous Hosts episode on the explosion. And
my grandmother was a Kadian who grew up on the coast.
I grew up hearing similar stories about rum runners. There's
(29:52):
a cove near my grandmother's childhood home, called Smugglers Cove,
has a deep cave only accessible by land at low tide.
Uh it is a It is in the Bay of Fundy.
The tides are no joke. My favorite was about my
grandmother's best friend. She was apparently beautiful as a small child,
and her father, who was in charge of picking up
(30:12):
the booze from the smugglers and bringing it inland to
the cities. This is the point at which they were
most likely to be caught, used to drive the cart
filled with hidden rum with his pretty daughter right up front.
They were never stopped in search, probably because they looked
so but nine. It sounds silly, but there was a
fair amount of discrimination at the time and for a
while after against the French speaking minority. So never they
(30:35):
never stopped, So never being stopped and searched was a
real feat. I know you guys get told to do
an episode on the Acadians all the times, is me
throwing my hat in the ring. But what might be
more interesting is an episode on where they all went
after being kicked out the spread of and how some
came back. And then Grace offers another episode suggestion as well.
(30:56):
Thank you so much, Grace. I love this comparison, but
weeen blockade runners and rum runners. I had not thought
of that before, but it makes total sense. And I
also wanted to read this note because yes, the Expulsion
of the Acadians is definitely on the list. I really
cannot predict when it might make it to the top
of the list because there is just a lot of
cultural knowledge that uh whichever of us um would be
(31:20):
writing that episode would need to really absorb before we
could do that all justice. So, if you would like
to write to us about this or any other podcast
where a history podcasts that How Stuff Works dot com
or on everywhere on social media, missed in History is
our name. So that's Facebook and Tumblr and Twitter and
Pinterest and Instagram, all that our website is at missed
(31:43):
in History dot com. Or you can find show notes.
You can find uh searchable archive all of our episodes. Ever,
so come to miss in history dot com for that
and a whole lot more. For more on this and
thousands of other tops fix, visit house dock Works dot com.
(32:09):
M
Hey everybody. Before we get started today, we want to
make sure everyone knows about our upcoming live shows. First up,
Holly will be at Salt Lake Comic Con September one, three.
I won't be able to make it to that one,
so past guest and friend of the show, Brian Young
will be talking with her about Lawn Cheney. Then on
(00:23):
October six am, we will be appearing as part of
New York Comic Con Presents and we'll be talking about
the first comic book. You can find out more information
on all of this ticket links everything like that if
you go to Missed in History dot com and click
the link that says live shows. Welcome to steph you
(00:45):
missed in History class from how Stuff Works dot com.
Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tray C. V.
Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. Today we are going to
finish out our podcast on a mean Pasha who was
born Edward Schnitzer and spent his childhood in university years
(01:08):
in Prussia before leaving for the Ottoman Empire to practice
medicine and eventually work in a number of government positions.
Where we left off last time, he had become the
governor of Equatoria and what's now South Sudan. We only
really have European perspectives on his time as governor. From
that point of view, he handled his position with thoughtfulness
(01:28):
and compassion, while also trying to reform the province and
carry out a range of scientific study at the same time.
In the biography I Mean Pasha his life and work,
George Schweitzer wrote, quote, under a means auspices, Equatorial Territory
was guided into unexpected paths of order and prosperity. But
(01:49):
then things took a really dramatic turn in the eighteen eighties,
leading Henry Morton Stanley, who was famous for having done
a similar journey to find Dr David Livingston and lets
the Stanley mounting a relief expedition to go find him.
So that so we're going to talk about today Stanley's
a Mean Pasha relief expedition unfolded in the context of
(02:11):
the Scramble for Africa. He and other explorers had returned
from expeditions into Africa in the mid to late nineteenth
century and described it as a place of immense natural wealth,
including lumber, ivory, rubber, gold, copper, and diamonds. In places
the land was also incredibly fertile, suitable for establishing expansive plantations.
(02:34):
These same explorers also described the African people as uncivilized and,
in their words, savage. Parts of the continent, particularly western
and Central Africa, were also still reeling from the effects
of the Transatlantic slave trade, which we talked about a
bit more in Part one. The industrial Revolution hadn't really
affected a lot of the continent, and from a European perspective,
(02:58):
that sort of industry is a hallmark of how sophisticated
and intelligent a society was. So since that industry wasn't there,
obviously that place was worse. Yeah. So, even though the
continent of Africa was home to an immensely diverse collection
of people's and nations, speaking thousands of languages, and full
of unique and complex social systems with their own art
(03:20):
and music and technology. To the European I the civilized
world should save it from Africans and then use African
labor to cheaply carry out what they thought would clearly
be a superior plan for industry and agriculture. As a result,
in the eighteen seventies and eighteen eighties, multiple European nations
began aggressively trying to colonize the African continent. This land
(03:45):
grab led to increasing tensions among the various European powers
of involved, but at the same time they didn't want
to actually go to war with each other over it.
But that eventually reached the point that the Berlin West
Africa Conference was convened from no fifteen eighty four to
February eighty five. Assembled at the request of Portugal, the
(04:07):
Berlin West Africa Conference brought Great Britain, France, Germany, Portugal,
and King Leopold the Second of Belgium together to work
out who should have which territory around the Congo River basin.
While the Berlin West Africa Conference didn't directly affect the
rest of the continent, it did lay the groundwork for
nations to apply the same basic ideas of partition and
(04:29):
colonization to other parts of Africa as well. Meanwhile, the
peoples of Africa had no representation or voice in this process,
or any real input into the colonization that followed. While
some colonial conquests did take place by force, others were
carried out with very little physical conflict for a variety
(04:49):
of reasons. Sometimes it was just obvious that the colonizing
force had much greater numbers and superior firepower, so it
seemed to make a lot more sense to just save
everybody's life lives and accept the terms. But sometimes African
leaders thought that this would be sort of a temporary measure,
one that might bring new developments and resources that would
(05:09):
ultimately be beneficial for them. By nineteen fourteen, European powers
controlled all of Africa apart from Liberia and Abyssinia, also
known as the Ethiopian Empire. Abyssinia maintained its independence, while
Liberia had been established by the American Colonization Society as
a home for free black people and former slaves from
(05:31):
the United States. Liberia declared independence on July eighteen forty seven.
The scramble for Africa fed into an uprising that directly
affected Amin Pasha's work as governor of Equatoria. In the
late nineteenth century, Sudan had been under Egyptian rule, but
in eighteen seventy six, due to financial mismanagement and an
(05:53):
overly aggressive modernization campaign, as Egypt was in so much
debt that it had to declare bankrupt. See, they should
have just made a mean Passia in charge of all that,
and it would have been fine that it does. He
carried that off Britain and France took control of Egypt's
economy in Britain eventually invaded and occupied the nation in
(06:16):
eighteen eighty two. With all of this going on, none
of the nations involved paid much attention to what was
happening in Sudan to the south. Many of Sudan's local
population were vastly dissatisfied with the colonial government. They were
tired of being exploited by European powers, didn't feel particularly
connected even to Egypt, which was their neighbor. One particular man,
(06:42):
Mohammed Ahmad ibn al Said Abdallah, was a mystic and
an ascetic who was gathering disciples as early as eighteen seventy,
and after a series of religious visions, Mohammed Ahmad proclaimed
himself to be the Mighty on June twenty nine, eight one.
In Islam, the Mahdi is essentially a divinely guided redeemer
(07:02):
who is sent to bring justice to the world, restore
the purity of Islam, and rule humanity before judgment day.
It's often translated as the guided One. As with any religion,
Different people and sects have very different interpretations. How to
consider both the Mahdi and Judgment Day, Muhammada Mad's interpretation
(07:22):
was relatively violent and apocalyptic. He started encouraging an armed
overthrow of the colonial government and raised an army to
that end, hoping to establish an Islamic nation. Today, there
are a lot of accounts, especially ones that are written
in recent years, that frame this as calling for jahad,
using the Arabic word for struggle. But English use of
(07:46):
the word jahad's i mean holy war is actually fairly new,
with its first appearance in writing according to the Oxford
English Dictionary in eighteen sixty nine. Although Islam as a
religion uses the concept of jahad in the context of
a lot of internal and external struggles that aren't violent
at all, a lot of non Muslims today interpret the
(08:08):
word jahad only as meaning holy war, that is not
at all. How contemporaneous accounts described this like I did
not find the word jihad used anywhere in any of
the primary sources that I read that were written at
the time. Instead, authorities in Egypt and Sudan described this
(08:28):
as an uprising or a revolt and we're going to
talk all about how this uprising played out after we
first paused for a bit of a sponsor break. At first,
Egyptian and Sudanese authorities didn't take this uprising, which became
known as the Modest Uprising, particularly seriously. This was in
(08:51):
spite of learnings from I Mean Pasha, who at the
time had the title of bay during this During his
time in Equatoria, he had really pay scrupulous attention to
all the various political and social and religious issues that
were playing out in the area. He not only pointed
out that conditions were right for this uprising to become
something serious, but he also offered to go and negotiate
(09:15):
himself instead. Rove Pasha, then Governor General of Sudan, dispatched
a man named Abu Saud. Abusu knew Mohammed Ahmad, so
the idea was that he could talk to him personally
and convince him to stop his anti government agitation and
then come with him back to the capitol. Instead, Abusau
deployed an armed detail to bring in Mohammed Ahmad by force,
(09:39):
at which point the Modest Force wiped out the detail
and came away with all of their weapons. The Modest
Force continued to grow from there, with people joining it
for a whole range of social and political and religious reasons.
Because Egypt was still essentially part of the Ottoman Empire,
Muslims were pretty well represented in the colonial government. I mean,
(10:00):
the Ottoman Empire was an Islamic empire, but only the
most affluent and best educated people actually had a voice
in the government, so a lot of people felt really excluded.
Some Muslims also wanted an exclusively Muslim state that was
governed directly under Islamic law. Slave traders joined the Modest
Force as well, under pressure from European allies, particularly Britain.
(10:25):
Colonial governments had tried to implement an immediate, across the
board abolition of slavery, so slave traders hoped that an
overthrow of the colonial government would allow the practice of
slavery to resume, and what eventually became known as the
Modest War or the Modest Revolution. This force defeated multiple
well armed Egyptian units between eighteen eighty one and eighteen
(10:48):
eighty three, including slaughtering a force of nearly eight thousand
men under the command of General William Hicks, and in
eighteen eighty five, they lay siege to the Sudanese capital
of Khartoum. Major General Charles George Gordon, Amin Pasha's former
employer and the former governor of Equatoria, was actually killed
in this siege against Muhammed Ahmad's orders. After taking Khartoum,
(11:12):
the Modest Force abandoned it and moved on to Omdurman.
Both Khartoum and Omdurman were well to the north of
Equatoria and Amin Pasha's capital at Lado. While the province
had seen some violence overall, these years had been more
of a watchful wait. However, Britain's withdrawal cleared the way
for the Modest Force to continue to take over the
(11:35):
rest of Sudan and into other provinces, including Equatoria. Britain's
withdrawal also cut off Aman Pasha's lines of communications with
the whole rest of the world. One of the last
communications that Amine received was a letter from new Bar Pasha,
who was the Prime Minister of Egypt, acknowledging that the
monarch was abandoning Sudan and would be unable to offer
(11:57):
him any further assistance. In this letter, Amine was given
unlimited freedom of action and assurances that if he decided
it would be best to retreat back to Egypt, efforts
would be made to work with various tribes between his
position and the border to assure his safe passage. And regardless,
he was given total carte blanche to take care of
(12:19):
himself and his garrisons. Hey, we're basically like, we can't
help you see whatever you need. And that was the
end of that. So for a while, I mean stayed put.
But eventually the modest takeover started to put more and
more pressure on the province of Equatoria. I mean, though
did not want to leave. Not only was this his
(12:41):
home now, but he knew that leaving it behind was
going to undo all that work that he had put
into it during his years as governor, which we talked
about in Part one. Eventually, though he really didn't feel
like he had any other choice, the situation became just
too dangerous. He evacuated south to Waddle and you got
to near Lake Albert. Amine had visited Uganda a number
(13:04):
of times and had tried to establish friendly relationships with
local leaders, so he wasn't wholly unfamiliar with the land
or its people. He quickly sent emissaries to the local
tribal leaders that he knew, as well as writing letters
to officials in Zanzibar in Egypt, even though he wasn't
particularly hopeful that those missives would get through. When he
(13:24):
did try to write to people anywhere else, he tried
to reassure the rest of the world that he was fine.
In a letter data January seven, he said, quote, respecting
my plans for the future, I can only repeat that
I am fully determined to stay, and even assuming that
no help comes and the province slowly goes to pieces,
(13:44):
I shall remain steadfast to the end. It is perfectly
clear to me with that with my motley crowd, a
journey right across Uganda and over the lake is an impossibility.
He went on to say that they were building new
boats and repairing their steamers and so quote their need
be no anxiety on our account. Basically, he wanted to
(14:05):
keep everyone who had evacuated with him, which included a
lot of the residents of the former Equatorian capital, together
and safe. So he got to work doing a lot
of the same things that he'd been doing in Equatoria,
establishing crops, improving roads, and trying to see to the
needs of the people he was still essentially governing. He
also offered as much aid as he could to neighboring tribes,
(14:27):
and the entire time continued on with his work as
a naturalist and anthropologist. This definitely was not easy. They
were essentially starting over as refugees, and they only had
what they had managed to carry out of Equatoria. At
one point, they lost several of their huts and a
lot of their provisions and a fire. Illnesses were common,
(14:48):
including a smallpox epidemic, and the region was also home
to a species of fly whose bites tended to cause
fevers and alterations. At some point, and the timeline is
not exactly clear, Amen had married an Abyssinian woman who
became ill in late February of seven and died on
March sixth of that year. The two of them had
(15:09):
a daughter, Farita, as well as a son who died
around the same time as his mother. Outside of Uganda,
nobody had any idea that any of this was going on.
Nobody in Europe or anywhere else in Africa had gotten
any word from Iman Pasha at all since the fall
of Khartoum. That changed when Dr Wilhelm Yunker, an explorer
(15:32):
and scientist, made his way to the eastern coast of Africa.
Yunker had been with a Mean in Equatoria for quite
some time and knew about the decision to retreat south.
He gave a much different read on a means attitude,
describing a Means last statement to him as quote, we
shall hold out until we obtain help or until we perish.
(15:53):
It sounds a lot more fatalistic than the letter that
he wrote. UH. And with this uh statement from doctor Younger,
the world decided that the Mean Pasha needed to be rescued,
and that is what we were going to talk about
after a sponsor break. As words spread that a Mean
(16:18):
Pasha was cut off from the rest of the world
and needed to be rescued, multiple organizations started trying to
organize and fund a relief expedition to either go get
him or to bring him provisions and supplies. Eventually, explorer
and journalist Henry Morton Stanley, who was already made famous
by his expedition to find Dr David Livingstone, was tapped
(16:38):
to do this, and there is already an episode on
this famous meeting between Stanley and Livingston, which is in
our archive, and we're actually going to be re airing
it as our next Saturday Classic. The Amin Pasha relief
expedition was funded by private support, the Egyptian government and
King Leopold, the second of Belgium. King Leopold's activities in
(16:59):
Africa could and probably at some point will be an
entire other episode of the show, but very briefly. Uh
He became interested in the Congo region of Africa during
Stanley's exploration there in the mid eighteen seventies, and on
February five, eighty five, he established the Congo Free State
as his personal possession under his private ownership rather than
(17:21):
a colony of Belgium. Leopold's rule over the Congo Free
State is now notorious for brutality, exploitation, and all manner
of human rights abuses. Malnutrition and disease were rampants, as
well as the use of forced labor on rubber and
palm oil plantations. So Leopold definitely had ulterior motives here,
(17:43):
and these motives were one reason why Stanley did not
take a remotely direct route to where a Mean Pasha
was believed to be. Instead, he set out on a
meandering route that would allow him to try to open
up more of the Congo to Leopold's control. Along the way,
there are also reports that he was on an ivory hunt,
(18:04):
so definitely not just about going to get a mean pasha.
The expedition arrived at Banana Point on the Congo coast
on March seven. Three months later, he arrived in Yambua,
departing from there with an advanced column made up of
three eighty three Africans and six Europeans. He left a
(18:26):
rear guard behind, which was made of two d sixty
five Africans and five Europeans for both the advance and
the rear columns. This expedition went incredibly badly. Illness, including malaria, roundworm,
tape worm, and gastro intestinal issues were rampant. So was malnutrition,
as well as an epidemic of burrowing fleas that led
(18:48):
to ulcerations and amputations. There's some speculation that cattle brought
with the advanced guard into Uganda spread an epidemic of
sleeping sickness there by Stanley's own admission the expedition and
caused the deaths of at least one thousand people, mostly
Africans employed as soldiers reporters, but also people that he
described as quote belligerent natives. For the Rear Column, it
(19:13):
was worse, a lot, a lot worse like It's one
of the possible inspirations for Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness.
That level of worse. Most of its officers died or
were killed, and a lot of the African porters either
starved to death or died from eating poisonous food. Stories
of humanitarian horrors were rampant. They are also touched on
(19:37):
in the past episode on Stanley and Livingstone. That will
be our next Saturday classics, so I don't really feel
they need to repeat the worst of them here. It
was awful. In December seven, the Advanced Column finally made
it to Lake Albert, almost eight months after having set
off from Banana Point. Stanley was too sick to continue
(19:57):
and sent an officer to look for a mean posh Ah.
They also eventually gathered up what was left of the
Rear Guard. While he was waiting, Stanley received a letter
from a mean giving a more precise account of where
he could be found, and so he sent a team
to retrieve him. On April, the team found a mean
Pasha on April and returned to Stanley with him On
(20:21):
the twenty nine. They drank a bunch of champagne to celebrate.
But the Iman Pasha Relief Expedition was not at this
point actually able to offer a mean Pasha any relief
in a mean Pasha his life and work. It was
described this way quote, A collection of famine stricken, tattered,
worn and exhausted men brought him thirty four cases of ammunition,
(20:45):
two bales of half spoiled clothes, and a letter from
the Cadive. The route taken by this expedition was anything
but that by which Amene could establish the communication so
essential to him with the outer world. So yeah, I
mean Pasha ended up aiding the relief expedition that had
(21:06):
come to aid him, but he didn't really want to
be rescued. There had been some talk in the planning
process and and all of that about whether this exhibition
was meant to resupply a Mean Pasha or to take
him out of Africa, but Stanley presented him with a
few options. He could retreat with Stanley to the coast.
(21:29):
He could continue to be governor but as part of
the Congo Free State, or he could join up with
the English East Africa Company and try to take over Uganda.
Stanley did not tell I mean Pasha about the existence
of the German East Africa Company, which he might, because
(21:50):
he was ethnically German, have found appealing. Also didn't tell
him about the fact that the German East Africa Company
was also trying to mount its own even pasha relief expedition.
So of the options offered to him, A mean didn't
really want to do any of them. All of the
options that Stanley had presented to him would require him
(22:11):
to abandon the work that he had been doing for years,
and to at least some degree, the people that he
had been living and working with all that time. Yeah, like,
if he went to be the governor of the Congo
Free State, he was probably not going to be relocating
all of these people that he had with him there.
(22:32):
And of course the people that I mean Pasha had
been governing all this time did not really like any
of these options either. At one point, his fighting force,
objecting to the idea of having to leave their home,
tried to mutiny. Then, when he was returning to waddle
I on August eighteenth of eight he was captured and
held prisoner by rebels. It was only after being released
(22:54):
that he finally relented and agreed to leave the area
with Stanley. So he the rest of Stanley's surviving straggling
force and about fifteen hundred others departed on April tenth,
eighteen eighty nine, and they reached the Indian Ocean that December.
The expedition to relieve a Mean Pasha was supposed to
take eighteen months, but it instead took a total of
(23:17):
thirty two, and after all that, Stanley didn't get to
return to Europe. The hero with a Mean Pasha in
tow Amine had always been very nearsighted, and in Zanzibar
he stepped out of a window that he thought led
onto a balcony during a celebratory dinner, and he cracked
his skull, and though he did recover, he was too
(23:38):
seriously hurt to be moved, so Stanley had to return
to Europe alone. After he recovered, I Mean stayed in Africa.
He took a job under kaiserville Helm in the second
working to advance German interests in Central Africa during the
ongoing scramble for the continent. However, this work did not
go nearly as well as his governorship of Equa Torrea had.
(24:01):
While he had been out of the Central Continent, slave
traders that he had worked so assiduously against had been
hard at work on their own, turning people against him,
and then on July one, eight ninety, Britain and Germany
signed an agreement excluding Lake Albert, which was where he
was supposed to be working from German control. He continued
(24:21):
to travel and explore in the Congo region until the
eighteen nineties, continuing to send his findings and specimens back
to Western museums. Other explorers and officials sent word back
to Europe reporting on his whereabouts. On December tenth, a
doctor Stulmann reported that he was in poor health and
had lost much of his eyesight. Once again convinced that
(24:44):
he needed relief, a German force was dispatched to fetch him,
but when they got to his last known location, he
was gone. On October eighteen nine two, a mean Pasha
was assassinated by slave traders who split his throat to
again quote his obituary quote. Thus perished miserably in the
wilds of Africa, A man who had devoted many years
(25:07):
of his life to the cause of African civilization, whose
scientific work had secured him a foremost place in the
devoted band, to whose labors we are indebted for our
knowledge of the dark continent, and whose unselfishness, amiability, and
strong sense of duty are extolled by all who came
into contact with him. I feel like that piece of obituary,
(25:28):
in addition to summing up the fact that a mean
Pasha seems to have been a generally good guy, he
was trying to do a good work, also sums up
racist statitudes about Africa. I mean Pasha's daughter Farita was
sent to Nissa, where her guardians were a mean sister
and his colleague George Schweitzer. In eighteen ninety, Henry Morton
(25:49):
Stanley published a book called In Darkest Africa, or the Quest,
Rescue and Retreat of I Mean Governor of Equatoria. It
is a very dramatic account of the relief expedition that
solidified a lot of very racist ideas about the continent
of Africa. Also, it solidified the idea of Henry Morton
(26:11):
Stanley being great. Uh. It was a colossal bestseller, But
that same year the Aborigines Protection Society in London condemned
the Amin Pasha Relief Expedition, accusing Stanley of committing atrocities
against the African population. Stanley himself also came under a
lot of scrutiny as more words spread about the horrors
(26:35):
of the expedition, particularly the rear columns behavior to return
briefly to Sudan. Although Mohammed Ahmad died of typhus in
eighty five, the Modest Force remained in control of much
of Sudan until the Battle of Omderman on September two,
and that battle was a decisive victory for the British,
(26:56):
killing more than ten thousand of the Modest Force, which
was only fifty thousand, and at that point Britain once
again established Sudan as an Anglo Egyptian colony. I mean
Pasha published note books during his lifetime, although he did
contribute to scientific journals and other publications. After his death, though,
a number of his friends and colleagues published biographies of
(27:18):
him that drew from and sometimes reprinted these letters and journals.
A lot of these are available on the Internet now
they're in the public domain. I kind of wish that
they had become as widely read as Stanley's book, because
you know, I didn't read literally every single word of
every journal that he wrote, but I found his descriptions
(27:42):
of UH life in Africa and the natural world in
Africa to be written in a more um sort of
dispassionate and non judge non judgmental way, right as a
lot of the tone of Stanley's writing is more like,
oh look how exotic and dangerous Africa is. I'm so great. Well,
(28:03):
I think you've just explained why they were not so widely.
Less sensational and more accurate is often not what sells books. Um.
As we noted earlier, we already have an episode in
the archive on Stanley's rescue of Dr Livingston that is
from back when Sarah and Dablina were hosts, and that
is actually going to be our next Saturday Classics, so
you get a week of sort of themed stuff. So
(28:26):
if you hang on til Saturday, you'll get that and
you can expand your your background knowledge on this topic.
That does the mean passion. I find him really fascinating,
and I do definitely wish that we had UH like
the perspective, more perspectives of local people, because a lot
of that was not written down by anybody. So it's
like we sort of have to put a level of
(28:48):
trust that the people who were writing about him in
these pretty positive terms were accurately assessing what was going on.
But from everything I can determine, it does seem as
though that he was liked and respected and people thought
that he was doing a pretty good job governing Equatoria
while he was there. So, uh, do you got some
(29:10):
listener mail? Yes? I do. This is from Grace. It
is about our recent episode on the h L Hunley
and it's called the Sinking of the h L Hunley.
Admittedly not anything actually to do about that sinking, which
I find delightful as an email subject line. So Grace says, Hi,
Tracy and Holly. I am another of your longtime listeners,
(29:31):
first time writers. I was listening to your latest episode
when you guys are talking about the blockade runners and
the fantasy built up around them. I am from Halifax, Nova, Scotia.
Love for the previous Hosts episode on the explosion. And
my grandmother was a Kadian who grew up on the coast.
I grew up hearing similar stories about rum runners. There's
(29:52):
a cove near my grandmother's childhood home, called Smugglers Cove,
has a deep cave only accessible by land at low tide.
Uh it is a It is in the Bay of Fundy.
The tides are no joke. My favorite was about my
grandmother's best friend. She was apparently beautiful as a small child,
and her father, who was in charge of picking up
(30:12):
the booze from the smugglers and bringing it inland to
the cities. This is the point at which they were
most likely to be caught, used to drive the cart
filled with hidden rum with his pretty daughter right up front.
They were never stopped in search, probably because they looked
so but nine. It sounds silly, but there was a
fair amount of discrimination at the time and for a
while after against the French speaking minority. So never they
(30:35):
never stopped, So never being stopped and searched was a
real feat. I know you guys get told to do
an episode on the Acadians all the times, is me
throwing my hat in the ring. But what might be
more interesting is an episode on where they all went
after being kicked out the spread of and how some
came back. And then Grace offers another episode suggestion as well.
(30:56):
Thank you so much, Grace. I love this comparison, but
weeen blockade runners and rum runners. I had not thought
of that before, but it makes total sense. And I
also wanted to read this note because yes, the Expulsion
of the Acadians is definitely on the list. I really
cannot predict when it might make it to the top
of the list because there is just a lot of
cultural knowledge that uh whichever of us um would be
(31:20):
writing that episode would need to really absorb before we
could do that all justice. So, if you would like
to write to us about this or any other podcast
where a history podcasts that How Stuff Works dot com
or on everywhere on social media, missed in History is
our name. So that's Facebook and Tumblr and Twitter and
Pinterest and Instagram, all that our website is at missed
(31:43):
in History dot com. Or you can find show notes.
You can find uh searchable archive all of our episodes. Ever,
so come to miss in history dot com for that
and a whole lot more. For more on this and
thousands of other tops fix, visit house dock Works dot com.
(32:09):
M
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