May 24, 2024 • 20 mins
On today’s episode, Jason discusses why the Boston Celtics’ blowout victory over Indiana in Game 2 actually has him feeling less optimistic about their chances of winning a championship, why it’s clear that the Pacers need to acquire another star player to fit alongside Tyrese Haliburton and Pascal Siakam, why The Ringer’s decision to place Anthony Edwards ahead of Luka Doncic on their Top 25 Under 25 list is only looking worse after Game 1. Finally, J-Mac closes the show with a very brief Friday night edition of the Best Bet.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is straight Fire with Jason McIntyre.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What is up, straight Fire, fam, It's me Jason McIntyre.
Straight Fire for Friday, May the twenty fourth. I hope
you guys have a smart, safe plan for Memorial Day weekend.
The roads are usually packed. I will not be going anywhere,
watching a lot of basketball, enjoying no kids sports, so
we'll be doing our thang, probably watching a lot of NBA,
(00:33):
rooting heavily for the Mavericks. Hopefully we'll get better games
than last night. Oh my gosh, Boston crushing Indiana in
a game that was never really close. So fortunately, I'm
gonna bring in Rob a little later to talk about
this kind of a dumb list on the ringer about
the top twenty five players under the age of twenty five. Yeah,
(00:54):
just in theory, it makes sense, but when you put
Luka Doncic at four, you kind of lose a lot
of credibility. Anyways, we'll do best bets at the end
of the pod for tonight's MAVs Wolves Game two. But
let's quickly sift through the rubble of Boston won twenty six,
Indiana one ten. I will be honest played in a
men's league game last night. It was surprisingly close. I mean,
(01:15):
this team is okay. They do have a D one
guy who was a grad student like five years ago
and played Division one and he was good. But they
basically just had a bunch of white guys who were
fast cutters and like all like in the six to
one to six four range, and we didn't take them seriously.
We nearly lost. We needed overtime. But here's the story.
We played actual defense. There was more defense than our
(01:37):
men's rec league game on Thursday night out here in
South Bay than there was in Celtics Pacers. I mean
it was you know, listen, we were misstings of guys
of our shooters, so they went zone. They got rugged
with our big men, and that's fine, whatever. But I
didn't see any defense being played by the Celtics and Pacers.
I mean, every shot it felt like was of the
(01:58):
lay up quality. The Pacers lost by double digits and
shot fifty two percent from the field. The Celtics shot
fifty three percent, hit fifteen threes. It just did not
feel like any defense was being played. And I'll be honest,
my big takeaway isn't anything to do with really this game.
It's just that if Boston plays this way, I'm not
(02:18):
so sure they're gonna they're gonna beat either Dallas or Minnesota.
I don't trust their bench. They got to get Porzenkis back,
Pritchard had a solid game, and Brisset. They gave them
twelve good minutes. Some of it was garbage shime. Yeah,
but howser, I don't think you can count on. I
like to maybe see more Tillman, more quartette. But they
definitely dialed back the Al Horford minutes. That was key.
(02:39):
He only played twenty five minutes. Remember forty in Game
one and less Horford. He only took six shots. You
know that he was like almost triple that in Game one,
So smart basketball from Boston. Interesting number is that Jalen
Brown went for forty. Okay, he took twenty seven shots.
They were like, we're gonna live and die with Tatum
and Brown. Tatum was fine. He missed a bunch of
(03:01):
threes twenty three, six and five. My guy, Drew Holiday.
I'm telling you Drew Holiday as the guy I trust
more than anyone on that Celtics team. And you know
I'm a big Tatum guy. Obviously, the Halliburton injury Bears watching.
He had no turnovers in twenty eight minutes, but it
almost felt like Carlisle waved the white flag maybe a
little early. I mean, this is the NBA. You can
rattle off a ten to nothing run pretty quickly, especially
(03:23):
the way Boston plays defense. So now the series shifts
to Indiana. Game three is slated for Saturday tomorrow, one
day off. I don't think that really helps. It looks
like there's only one day off between all the rest
of the games in the series. Not great either way,
but overall, let's see if Porzingis returns. I'm gonna go
(03:44):
ahead and guess he returns for Game five, or if
at three to one he doesn't play at all in
this series, Like, what's the value in burning him up
three to one? Like, I just I don't know that
that's there. I think Indiana for sure gets a game
at home. I don't think they're gonna get two. But
they looked like a team that was not an elite
team in the East. Didn't play a lot of defense.
But Pascal Siakam had a hell of a game. He
(04:05):
was cooking thirteen to seventeen, twenty eight points. He's a
good player. Now, one thing I had totally forgotten was
this Indiana team has a guy I love, Ben Matheren
on their team. Now he's injured and out for the season,
but he was a lottery pick a couple of years
ago coming out of Arizona. He is a nice player.
He would definitely be in the rotation for this team.
And it makes me wonder, like, are the Pacers like, okay,
(04:28):
s light in that they've got a lot of good
players and they're kind of sort of close to something.
Can they make a deal for one more guy? The
only problem is where, like where do you get that player? Like,
you're not replacing Haliburton. I don't think you're replacing Siakam
Turner has been borderline invaluable. And then it's like, Okay,
(04:49):
can we package Nemhard? I don't know what his market
value is? Can we package topp In? They do have
Jirase Walker, the kid they drafted who is basically not
playing it all. Meanwhile, Ben Sheppard, the rookie is playing
a ton Walker. He's like a six to seven guy
out of Houston, a twenty twenty three first round pick.
He's like not playing And it's weird because, like how
(05:13):
can you draft the guy You're in the conference finals
and he's giving you nothing. It's just to me, like,
imagine if they had Derek Lively on this team, Holy hell,
they would be a major factor. So I don't know.
It feels like the Pacers are close to something. There's
just not enough defense being played for my liking. And
we knew that, right, that's not breaking news. But you
add twenty one year old Ben Matherin to this team
(05:34):
and you're like, damn, they've got like they're legitimately nine deep.
And if you develop Walker then you can move off
of some but maybe it's Turner you can move off of.
I don't know. Can you play Siakam at the small
ball five? I don't know. Pacers have options. Obviously they're
not winning this series. Boston now up to nothing and
in total control. When Brown can go for forty, Tatum
went for thirty six in Game one, White could go off,
(05:57):
Holiday could go there's just too many weapons for for
a Pacers team that plays no defense. Anyways, let's I'm
gonna bring in Rob and we're going to talk about
this list on the Ringer.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the Nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
All right, so I want to quickly talk about this
list that the Ringer put out the top twenty five
players under the age of twenty five in the NBA.
And yeah, I'm not one to totally crap on list
as a guy who you know, started the Big Lead
and we had a lot of lists, probably once a
week we would do rankings or list basically just crush
(06:41):
on the internet. So obviously the Ringer knew what they
were doing here. And no question, Victor woman Yama is
the number one player under the age of twenty five,
and nobody would argue that. Absolutely No. I don't care
that he hasn't been in a playoff game. He's clearly
a generational talent, a true unicorn, and he's going to,
assuming he stays healthy, change the league. My issue is
(07:02):
two and it feels knee jerk. They put this list
out on Wednesday, right on the heels of Anthony Edwards
and the Timberwolves taking down the defending champion Nuggets, and
they put Anthony Edwards number two. He's got two playoff
series wins under his belt and they put him second. Now, listen,
there's no argument he's certainly in the top five to seven.
(07:24):
He might you could even make a case he's three.
But this idea that Anthony Edwards, based off two playoff
series wins, is clearly the second best player under the
age of twenty five. I think that's lunacy. And I
know he has shown flashes of being maybe Michael Jordan.
I think it's closer to Dwayne Wade. But it just
felt like a massive overreaction. But they didn't stop there,
(07:45):
almost as if searching for clicks. They went SGA third.
And a big part of their argument is, well, he
almost won the MVP. He was a runner up. I
don't know, guys. I mean, wasn't Dak Prescott the runner
up for MVP in the NFL this seas, wasn't Brock
Purty third. I like those guys. I'm not putting them
ahead of Luca friggin' Doancic, who is proven for five
(08:09):
straight years. He is undeniably already on the track to
be an all time great. This guy who's been All
NBA five times, he's twenty five years old. That's insanity
and yeah, you may not like Luca because he complains
to officials and he whinds a lot, and he's kind
of constantly gesturing looking for calls, and he doesn't fly
(08:31):
above the rim like Anthony Edwards. He's not superhuman freakish
like Weembin Yama. He's not as smooth and getting into
the lane and slithery as SGA and SGA. If you notice,
he's starting to cultivate an image where he's going to
the podium in like a puffy jacket and like a
leather hat. It's just he's got like some swag. He's
in a national commercial now with chet Holmgren, and it's
(08:54):
clear that Luca SGA is trying to cultivate some kind
of look, and I just think gets wildly disrespectful to
Luka Doncic to have him fourth. And maybe Rob there
is some sentiment like, hey, we know the Euros are
taken over. We can't have two under twenty five at
the top of the list. Because if you look Rob
at the All NBA team, which was announced Wednesday or
(09:16):
was it Thursday. In one of those days, four of
the five All NBA guys were international. Jason Tatum on
the first team the only homegrown talent, and if you
look at the first team, all of them are the
under the age of thirty, So there's a youth movement
going on and an international movement. And I almost felt
like the Ringer was really trying hard to pivot off that,
(09:41):
and I don't know why they would do that. It
just felt weird to not. I can't think of any
other logical reasons why Luca wouldn't be second. I like Halliburton,
I like MAXI I like chet Holmgrom. I don't know
if I'd have Jalen Williams eighth, I would have gone Bankaro,
who they had nine. And then you know, Zion has
kind of an asterisk and John r has a bit
of an asterisk. Shngoon is up there. I'm not feeling
(10:03):
the Scottie Barnes love yet, But overall, Rob, your thoughts
on the top of the list.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Well, I don't really care about the entire y of
the list. I don't even really care about the top ten.
I care about number two and number four because those
the two guys who are still playing in the other
two guys who are going head to head in this
series right now. The fact that they had Luka Doncic fourth,
and I know that their premise was, it's what have
you done in the past, what are you currently doing,
and what will you do in the future. So I
understand factoring in those three and that's why a guy
(10:31):
like gwyn Ben Yama would be number one, because his
potential is so immense that it would make sense why
he would be ahead of everyone else. But Luka Doncic
has been in the NBA for six seasons, He's won
the Rookie of the Year and been a five time
First Team All NBA ever since. He is, according to
Sports Radar, the one, two, three four fifth fastest player
(10:53):
to earn five first Team All NBA. The guys ahead
of him Tim duncan, Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird, Alegan Baylor.
So Luka Doncic, if we're going based on past and
current performance, is on track to become one of the
all time upper upper tier players in NBA history. Like
his resume is that good. He could have conceivably won
(11:15):
MVP this season if people didn't have such a hard
on for Nikola Jokic, And I understand that because the
Joker's great. But still Luca definitely had a good case.
If he seals the deal in this playoff run with
a championship, then he's automatically, for my money, probably a
top twenty twenty five player, even if he breaks his
knee and never plays again, you know, after the season.
So the fact that he had that kind of performance
(11:37):
that he had in Game one on the heels of
this report coming out really really makes the folks at
the ring or look really bad. And I don't know
if it was them, you know, trying to generate clicks,
and if they did it on purpose. Someone told me
that they really wanted to do that. They put Luca
like seventh or eight instead of fourth, so there was
kind of some sort of justification. But to your point,
(11:57):
originally by Anthony Edwards, Anthony Edwards, you know, has been
hailed as the face of the NBA or the next
face of the NBA. He's been getting these Michael Jordan
comparisons because of the visual rippers. They look like, you know,
they look alike young mj and young at Man. But
if you notice, since that face of the NBA conversation
started to percolate, Anthony Edwards play has really kind of
(12:19):
fallen off a Cliff all Right. The first eight games
of the playoffs, he averaged thirty two on fifty six
percent shooting. He was great, he was lights out, and
that's why the comparisons were starting to make a little
bit of sense. Last four games though, twenty points per
game on thirty four percent shooting. In fact, he has
scored less than twenty in four of his last six
(12:40):
playoff games. That's not to mention after Game one, where
he publicly says that he was exhausted on the floor
trying to keep up with Kyrie Irving. I don't know
about you, but I don't think Michael Jordan or Kobe
Bryant ever said you know what, I'm exhausted in this
playoff series having to play defense. I I just can't
do it. I just get so this whole thing with
the Ringer, it's done its job. It's making us talk
(13:02):
about it. But just off of one game alone in
this series, not even counting in the previous five years,
I think it's pretty clear they made a massive mistake.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I get the hype for Anthony Edward. Everybody wants what's next, right,
everybody's excited about you know, people love a backup quarterback
remember how excited Rob and Raiders fans were when Aidan
O'Connell flashed in the preseason. I was like, oh, wait, no'
connin he'd gotten next AOC nice. You remember that, right?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yes? I do?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Right, see if he's in the league in two years.
People are excited for Anthony Edwards. I said he was
the greatest in game dunker in league history this season,
and people jumped down my throat like I had murdered
their first born or something. It was a little crazy.
There is a weird and rob if you delve into
the Anthony Edwards versus Jason Tatum discussion, which I didn't
(13:52):
even know is the thing that's like a real thing online.
If you jump into that, you will see the venom
from both sides, Like the camps are dug in. People
are fired up about those two being like two of
the better young players in the league. And listen, people
are gonna criticize every game Tatum has. I'll just say this,
If Tatum had zero two point baskets in a Game
(14:14):
one home loss for Boston, he would have been destroyed.
If Tatum went six for twenty four in Game seven
and they won, it would have been like Wow, they
won in spite of Tatum. We're not seeing that with Edwards.
And I get it, he's only twenty two. J Layoff,
I get that. I totally get that, but I just
don't like how it's not kind of both ways. And
Rob noted this after Yoker Joker lost Game seven. It's like, Wow,
(14:35):
nobody's criticizing Yokic. Meanwhile, everybody is over here tripping over
themselves to destroy Lebron for trying to put Ja J.
Reddick in as head coach. And I don't know, man,
it just felt a little weird and unnecessary, and it
feels that way the Anthony Edwards love. I don't know,
is it gotten out. I'm almost rooting against them because
of this. Rob, is that a bridge too far for you? Ooh?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I mean kind of, because you know, I don't think
you'd to Anthony Edwards is that he's a guy to like,
So I don't know if i'd want to root against him.
But it's interesting that you made the Jason Tatum comparison
because I saw your video clip on The Herd yesterday
where you ranked the guys you would have so start
a roster with, and you had Jason Tatum above Anthony
Edwards and some people on Twitter that I saw were
(15:18):
pretty upset about it. But everything that you love about
Jason Tatum, and there is a lot to love about
Jason tATu or ecuse me about Anthony Edwards, Jason Tatum
has already done it okay through the well he's aged
twenty two right, So through his age twenty two season,
Jason Tatum was a two time All Star and All
NBA player, and I believe he had already been to
(15:39):
the Eastern Conference Finals twice. At age twenty one, he
averaged twenty five to ten and five in the playoffs
while leading a very very young Boston Celtics team to
the Eastern Conference Finals. So like, I understand that the
new thing, the new hotness, is always better than what
we saw in the past, and I get it, and
(16:00):
at to some extent I agree with it, especially if
you're comparing like the nineteen sixties and the nineteen seventies
where the game was totally different, but this was five
years ago, like this is not you know, you have
to find a black and white television to watch with
Jason Tatum did Jason Tatum has been the guy for
half a decade now and for whatever reason, this Anthony Edwards.
(16:22):
I don't wanna call it a premature evacuation, but people
are really really excited about him, and they just got
to pump the brakes a little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I'm looking at Tatum's age twenty twenty two playoffs. That
was when Jaylen Brown got hurt so they lost in five.
But his age twenty one playoffs, now, I guess this
was in the bubble where he really blew up. He
was twenty five, ten and five in seventeen games. I
mean again, he was twenty one years old. That was
his age twenty one season according to Basketball Reference. Like,
(16:55):
you're right, everything Anthony Edwards has done so as Tatum,
but it's he's younger. It just it just feels a
little harsh. I had to look up Austin Reeves's age
rob to see why he didn't make the list. Any
any any curiosity as to why Austin Reeves, the great
Lakers wing who I am a massive fan of. Now,
(17:17):
he did go to college, so it's possible that he
aged out. He's twenty five, twenty five for another six days,
so he qualified. He didn't even get like an honorary mention.
Which was given to Tyler Hero Kuminga, Come on, Kuminga
over Austin Reeves's honorable mention. I mean Austin Reeves was
Kobe White. I don't know. I don't know how Austin
(17:39):
Reaves did get top twenty five. Listen, Darius Garland or
Austin Reeves. Who would you rather have as.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Your my factoring in contract? Because if its contract Austin
Reeves all day, every day, yeaheah, but in a vacuum,
probably Darius Garland.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, I mean Darius Garland was the only Olympic team.
Oh that's right, wasn't That's right? I forgot about that.
I like Desmond Bain's game. Derek Lively, by the way,
I saw this insane stat. Well it's not that insane.
But according to Yuffs, Derek Lively is one of the
(18:16):
top five of players in the playoffs so far and
plus minus. You know who number one is, of course, right,
you can guess.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Uh luka, Doncic?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Who who Jason Tatum.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Set up? Right?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
A Tatum hate? But oh look, he's number one in
the playoffs in plus minus. Anyways, I I'm bullish on
Tatum's outlook. I think the Celtics will be fine. They
might win the title. It's gonna be It's gonna be. Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
The only thing better than sitting on your couch watching
the game. He's making money while you do it. Here's
your best bet, Wokward.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Let's do a best debt for tonight's game and then
I don't know if you have an appetite for game
in Indie, Rob, but any thoughts on Wolves bouncing back
and Pacers headed home.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I'm a big believer in the Minnesota Timberwolves here tonight
in this game because they cannot afford to go down
oh two at home. Like. This is not the Denver
Nuggets of last series, where they have some kind of
experience in championship medal to lean on when things get tough, right,
So I know they won that series, But most cases,
if you fall down two at home heading back to Dallas,
(19:31):
like you're asking to get sweat, and I think Minnesota
is too good for that. I think that what we've
seen historically from Luca Kyrie and these MAVs is they
kind of rest on their laurels at times when they shouldn't.
So I'm expecting Minnesota not only to win the game,
but to cover what I see as a five and
a half. So give me Minnesota even giving up the points.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
So it's interesting. I think a lot of people are
going Minnesota' zigzact theory and such. But Denver lost at
home in Game one. Everybody and their mom was on
Denver bouncing back, and uh, Denver got destroyed. And I
just wonder if Minnesota, if they just don't show up
here at home. Remember day that Game seven win and
(20:13):
not that took a lot out of them, but I
think Game seven was it was It felt like they
probably won the championship, and so there's a natural letdown,
And I just I don't know that Dallas all of
a sudden is gonna have another six for twenty three
three point game. I don't see that in the card.
So they're gonna shoot better, and what's what's the counter?
What is Minnesota gonna do better? And is gonna score
more points?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Probably, but I don't know if he definitely is, Like
he's going up against a legit rim protector and Lively
and Gafford's not bad either. So I'm gonna go ahead
and take the plus five with Dallas. I'm greedy, probably
give back my Game one winnings, but I'll take the
MAVs tonight, getting the points again. No money line for me,
but that's it. Enjoy the weekend. Back on Monday. Talk
to you then,
This is straight Fire with Jason McIntyre.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What is up, straight Fire, fam, It's me Jason McIntyre.
Straight Fire for Friday, May the twenty fourth. I hope
you guys have a smart, safe plan for Memorial Day weekend.
The roads are usually packed. I will not be going anywhere,
watching a lot of basketball, enjoying no kids sports, so
we'll be doing our thang, probably watching a lot of NBA,
(00:33):
rooting heavily for the Mavericks. Hopefully we'll get better games
than last night. Oh my gosh, Boston crushing Indiana in
a game that was never really close. So fortunately, I'm
gonna bring in Rob a little later to talk about
this kind of a dumb list on the ringer about
the top twenty five players under the age of twenty five. Yeah,
(00:54):
just in theory, it makes sense, but when you put
Luka Doncic at four, you kind of lose a lot
of credibility. Anyways, we'll do best bets at the end
of the pod for tonight's MAVs Wolves Game two. But
let's quickly sift through the rubble of Boston won twenty six,
Indiana one ten. I will be honest played in a
men's league game last night. It was surprisingly close. I mean,
(01:15):
this team is okay. They do have a D one
guy who was a grad student like five years ago
and played Division one and he was good. But they
basically just had a bunch of white guys who were
fast cutters and like all like in the six to
one to six four range, and we didn't take them seriously.
We nearly lost. We needed overtime. But here's the story.
We played actual defense. There was more defense than our
(01:37):
men's rec league game on Thursday night out here in
South Bay than there was in Celtics Pacers. I mean
it was you know, listen, we were misstings of guys
of our shooters, so they went zone. They got rugged
with our big men, and that's fine, whatever. But I
didn't see any defense being played by the Celtics and Pacers.
I mean, every shot it felt like was of the
(01:58):
lay up quality. The Pacers lost by double digits and
shot fifty two percent from the field. The Celtics shot
fifty three percent, hit fifteen threes. It just did not
feel like any defense was being played. And I'll be honest,
my big takeaway isn't anything to do with really this game.
It's just that if Boston plays this way, I'm not
(02:18):
so sure they're gonna they're gonna beat either Dallas or Minnesota.
I don't trust their bench. They got to get Porzenkis back,
Pritchard had a solid game, and Brisset. They gave them
twelve good minutes. Some of it was garbage shime. Yeah,
but howser, I don't think you can count on. I
like to maybe see more Tillman, more quartette. But they
definitely dialed back the Al Horford minutes. That was key.
(02:39):
He only played twenty five minutes. Remember forty in Game
one and less Horford. He only took six shots. You
know that he was like almost triple that in Game one,
So smart basketball from Boston. Interesting number is that Jalen
Brown went for forty. Okay, he took twenty seven shots.
They were like, we're gonna live and die with Tatum
and Brown. Tatum was fine. He missed a bunch of
(03:01):
threes twenty three, six and five. My guy, Drew Holiday.
I'm telling you Drew Holiday as the guy I trust
more than anyone on that Celtics team. And you know
I'm a big Tatum guy. Obviously, the Halliburton injury Bears watching.
He had no turnovers in twenty eight minutes, but it
almost felt like Carlisle waved the white flag maybe a
little early. I mean, this is the NBA. You can
rattle off a ten to nothing run pretty quickly, especially
(03:23):
the way Boston plays defense. So now the series shifts
to Indiana. Game three is slated for Saturday tomorrow, one
day off. I don't think that really helps. It looks
like there's only one day off between all the rest
of the games in the series. Not great either way,
but overall, let's see if Porzingis returns. I'm gonna go
(03:44):
ahead and guess he returns for Game five, or if
at three to one he doesn't play at all in
this series, Like, what's the value in burning him up
three to one? Like, I just I don't know that
that's there. I think Indiana for sure gets a game
at home. I don't think they're gonna get two. But
they looked like a team that was not an elite
team in the East. Didn't play a lot of defense.
But Pascal Siakam had a hell of a game. He
(04:05):
was cooking thirteen to seventeen, twenty eight points. He's a
good player. Now, one thing I had totally forgotten was
this Indiana team has a guy I love, Ben Matheren
on their team. Now he's injured and out for the season,
but he was a lottery pick a couple of years
ago coming out of Arizona. He is a nice player.
He would definitely be in the rotation for this team.
And it makes me wonder, like, are the Pacers like, okay,
(04:28):
s light in that they've got a lot of good
players and they're kind of sort of close to something.
Can they make a deal for one more guy? The
only problem is where, like where do you get that player? Like,
you're not replacing Haliburton. I don't think you're replacing Siakam
Turner has been borderline invaluable. And then it's like, Okay,
(04:49):
can we package Nemhard? I don't know what his market
value is? Can we package topp In? They do have
Jirase Walker, the kid they drafted who is basically not
playing it all. Meanwhile, Ben Sheppard, the rookie is playing
a ton Walker. He's like a six to seven guy
out of Houston, a twenty twenty three first round pick.
He's like not playing And it's weird because, like how
(05:13):
can you draft the guy You're in the conference finals
and he's giving you nothing. It's just to me, like,
imagine if they had Derek Lively on this team, Holy hell,
they would be a major factor. So I don't know.
It feels like the Pacers are close to something. There's
just not enough defense being played for my liking. And
we knew that, right, that's not breaking news. But you
add twenty one year old Ben Matherin to this team
(05:34):
and you're like, damn, they've got like they're legitimately nine deep.
And if you develop Walker then you can move off
of some but maybe it's Turner you can move off of.
I don't know. Can you play Siakam at the small
ball five? I don't know. Pacers have options. Obviously they're
not winning this series. Boston now up to nothing and
in total control. When Brown can go for forty, Tatum
went for thirty six in Game one, White could go off,
(05:57):
Holiday could go there's just too many weapons for for
a Pacers team that plays no defense. Anyways, let's I'm
gonna bring in Rob and we're going to talk about
this list on the Ringer.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
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Speaker 2 (06:20):
All right, so I want to quickly talk about this
list that the Ringer put out the top twenty five
players under the age of twenty five in the NBA.
And yeah, I'm not one to totally crap on list
as a guy who you know, started the Big Lead
and we had a lot of lists, probably once a
week we would do rankings or list basically just crush
(06:41):
on the internet. So obviously the Ringer knew what they
were doing here. And no question, Victor woman Yama is
the number one player under the age of twenty five,
and nobody would argue that. Absolutely No. I don't care
that he hasn't been in a playoff game. He's clearly
a generational talent, a true unicorn, and he's going to,
assuming he stays healthy, change the league. My issue is
(07:02):
two and it feels knee jerk. They put this list
out on Wednesday, right on the heels of Anthony Edwards
and the Timberwolves taking down the defending champion Nuggets, and
they put Anthony Edwards number two. He's got two playoff
series wins under his belt and they put him second. Now, listen,
there's no argument he's certainly in the top five to seven.
(07:24):
He might you could even make a case he's three.
But this idea that Anthony Edwards, based off two playoff
series wins, is clearly the second best player under the
age of twenty five. I think that's lunacy. And I
know he has shown flashes of being maybe Michael Jordan.
I think it's closer to Dwayne Wade. But it just
felt like a massive overreaction. But they didn't stop there,
(07:45):
almost as if searching for clicks. They went SGA third.
And a big part of their argument is, well, he
almost won the MVP. He was a runner up. I
don't know, guys. I mean, wasn't Dak Prescott the runner
up for MVP in the NFL this seas, wasn't Brock
Purty third. I like those guys. I'm not putting them
ahead of Luca friggin' Doancic, who is proven for five
(08:09):
straight years. He is undeniably already on the track to
be an all time great. This guy who's been All
NBA five times, he's twenty five years old. That's insanity
and yeah, you may not like Luca because he complains
to officials and he whinds a lot, and he's kind
of constantly gesturing looking for calls, and he doesn't fly
(08:31):
above the rim like Anthony Edwards. He's not superhuman freakish
like Weembin Yama. He's not as smooth and getting into
the lane and slithery as SGA and SGA. If you notice,
he's starting to cultivate an image where he's going to
the podium in like a puffy jacket and like a
leather hat. It's just he's got like some swag. He's
in a national commercial now with chet Holmgren, and it's
(08:54):
clear that Luca SGA is trying to cultivate some kind
of look, and I just think gets wildly disrespectful to
Luka Doncic to have him fourth. And maybe Rob there
is some sentiment like, hey, we know the Euros are
taken over. We can't have two under twenty five at
the top of the list. Because if you look Rob
at the All NBA team, which was announced Wednesday or
(09:16):
was it Thursday. In one of those days, four of
the five All NBA guys were international. Jason Tatum on
the first team the only homegrown talent, and if you
look at the first team, all of them are the
under the age of thirty, So there's a youth movement
going on and an international movement. And I almost felt
like the Ringer was really trying hard to pivot off that,
(09:41):
and I don't know why they would do that. It
just felt weird to not. I can't think of any
other logical reasons why Luca wouldn't be second. I like Halliburton,
I like MAXI I like chet Holmgrom. I don't know
if I'd have Jalen Williams eighth, I would have gone Bankaro,
who they had nine. And then you know, Zion has
kind of an asterisk and John r has a bit
of an asterisk. Shngoon is up there. I'm not feeling
(10:03):
the Scottie Barnes love yet, But overall, Rob, your thoughts
on the top of the list.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Well, I don't really care about the entire y of
the list. I don't even really care about the top ten.
I care about number two and number four because those
the two guys who are still playing in the other
two guys who are going head to head in this
series right now. The fact that they had Luka Doncic fourth,
and I know that their premise was, it's what have
you done in the past, what are you currently doing,
and what will you do in the future. So I
understand factoring in those three and that's why a guy
(10:31):
like gwyn Ben Yama would be number one, because his
potential is so immense that it would make sense why
he would be ahead of everyone else. But Luka Doncic
has been in the NBA for six seasons, He's won
the Rookie of the Year and been a five time
First Team All NBA ever since. He is, according to
Sports Radar, the one, two, three four fifth fastest player
(10:53):
to earn five first Team All NBA. The guys ahead
of him Tim duncan, Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird, Alegan Baylor.
So Luka Doncic, if we're going based on past and
current performance, is on track to become one of the
all time upper upper tier players in NBA history. Like
his resume is that good. He could have conceivably won
(11:15):
MVP this season if people didn't have such a hard
on for Nikola Jokic, And I understand that because the
Joker's great. But still Luca definitely had a good case.
If he seals the deal in this playoff run with
a championship, then he's automatically, for my money, probably a
top twenty twenty five player, even if he breaks his
knee and never plays again, you know, after the season.
So the fact that he had that kind of performance
(11:37):
that he had in Game one on the heels of
this report coming out really really makes the folks at
the ring or look really bad. And I don't know
if it was them, you know, trying to generate clicks,
and if they did it on purpose. Someone told me
that they really wanted to do that. They put Luca
like seventh or eight instead of fourth, so there was
kind of some sort of justification. But to your point,
(11:57):
originally by Anthony Edwards, Anthony Edwards, you know, has been
hailed as the face of the NBA or the next
face of the NBA. He's been getting these Michael Jordan
comparisons because of the visual rippers. They look like, you know,
they look alike young mj and young at Man. But
if you notice, since that face of the NBA conversation
started to percolate, Anthony Edwards play has really kind of
(12:19):
fallen off a Cliff all Right. The first eight games
of the playoffs, he averaged thirty two on fifty six
percent shooting. He was great, he was lights out, and
that's why the comparisons were starting to make a little
bit of sense. Last four games though, twenty points per
game on thirty four percent shooting. In fact, he has
scored less than twenty in four of his last six
(12:40):
playoff games. That's not to mention after Game one, where
he publicly says that he was exhausted on the floor
trying to keep up with Kyrie Irving. I don't know
about you, but I don't think Michael Jordan or Kobe
Bryant ever said you know what, I'm exhausted in this
playoff series having to play defense. I I just can't
do it. I just get so this whole thing with
the Ringer, it's done its job. It's making us talk
(13:02):
about it. But just off of one game alone in
this series, not even counting in the previous five years,
I think it's pretty clear they made a massive mistake.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I get the hype for Anthony Edward. Everybody wants what's next, right,
everybody's excited about you know, people love a backup quarterback
remember how excited Rob and Raiders fans were when Aidan
O'Connell flashed in the preseason. I was like, oh, wait, no'
connin he'd gotten next AOC nice. You remember that, right?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yes? I do?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Right, see if he's in the league in two years.
People are excited for Anthony Edwards. I said he was
the greatest in game dunker in league history this season,
and people jumped down my throat like I had murdered
their first born or something. It was a little crazy.
There is a weird and rob if you delve into
the Anthony Edwards versus Jason Tatum discussion, which I didn't
(13:52):
even know is the thing that's like a real thing online.
If you jump into that, you will see the venom
from both sides, Like the camps are dug in. People
are fired up about those two being like two of
the better young players in the league. And listen, people
are gonna criticize every game Tatum has. I'll just say this,
If Tatum had zero two point baskets in a Game
(14:14):
one home loss for Boston, he would have been destroyed.
If Tatum went six for twenty four in Game seven
and they won, it would have been like Wow, they
won in spite of Tatum. We're not seeing that with Edwards.
And I get it, he's only twenty two. J Layoff,
I get that. I totally get that, but I just
don't like how it's not kind of both ways. And
Rob noted this after Yoker Joker lost Game seven. It's like, Wow,
(14:35):
nobody's criticizing Yokic. Meanwhile, everybody is over here tripping over
themselves to destroy Lebron for trying to put Ja J.
Reddick in as head coach. And I don't know, man,
it just felt a little weird and unnecessary, and it
feels that way the Anthony Edwards love. I don't know,
is it gotten out. I'm almost rooting against them because
of this. Rob, is that a bridge too far for you? Ooh?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I mean kind of, because you know, I don't think
you'd to Anthony Edwards is that he's a guy to like,
So I don't know if i'd want to root against him.
But it's interesting that you made the Jason Tatum comparison
because I saw your video clip on The Herd yesterday
where you ranked the guys you would have so start
a roster with, and you had Jason Tatum above Anthony
Edwards and some people on Twitter that I saw were
(15:18):
pretty upset about it. But everything that you love about
Jason Tatum, and there is a lot to love about
Jason tATu or ecuse me about Anthony Edwards, Jason Tatum
has already done it okay through the well he's aged
twenty two right, So through his age twenty two season,
Jason Tatum was a two time All Star and All
NBA player, and I believe he had already been to
(15:39):
the Eastern Conference Finals twice. At age twenty one, he
averaged twenty five to ten and five in the playoffs
while leading a very very young Boston Celtics team to
the Eastern Conference Finals. So like, I understand that the
new thing, the new hotness, is always better than what
we saw in the past, and I get it, and
(16:00):
at to some extent I agree with it, especially if
you're comparing like the nineteen sixties and the nineteen seventies
where the game was totally different, but this was five
years ago, like this is not you know, you have
to find a black and white television to watch with
Jason Tatum did Jason Tatum has been the guy for
half a decade now and for whatever reason, this Anthony Edwards.
(16:22):
I don't wanna call it a premature evacuation, but people
are really really excited about him, and they just got
to pump the brakes a little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I'm looking at Tatum's age twenty twenty two playoffs. That
was when Jaylen Brown got hurt so they lost in five.
But his age twenty one playoffs, now, I guess this
was in the bubble where he really blew up. He
was twenty five, ten and five in seventeen games. I
mean again, he was twenty one years old. That was
his age twenty one season according to Basketball Reference. Like,
(16:55):
you're right, everything Anthony Edwards has done so as Tatum,
but it's he's younger. It just it just feels a
little harsh. I had to look up Austin Reeves's age
rob to see why he didn't make the list. Any
any any curiosity as to why Austin Reeves, the great
Lakers wing who I am a massive fan of. Now,
(17:17):
he did go to college, so it's possible that he
aged out. He's twenty five, twenty five for another six days,
so he qualified. He didn't even get like an honorary mention.
Which was given to Tyler Hero Kuminga, Come on, Kuminga
over Austin Reeves's honorable mention. I mean Austin Reeves was
Kobe White. I don't know. I don't know how Austin
(17:39):
Reaves did get top twenty five. Listen, Darius Garland or
Austin Reeves. Who would you rather have as.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Your my factoring in contract? Because if its contract Austin
Reeves all day, every day, yeaheah, but in a vacuum,
probably Darius Garland.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, I mean Darius Garland was the only Olympic team.
Oh that's right, wasn't That's right? I forgot about that.
I like Desmond Bain's game. Derek Lively, by the way,
I saw this insane stat. Well it's not that insane.
But according to Yuffs, Derek Lively is one of the
(18:16):
top five of players in the playoffs so far and
plus minus. You know who number one is, of course, right,
you can guess.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Uh luka, Doncic?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Who who Jason Tatum.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Set up? Right?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
A Tatum hate? But oh look, he's number one in
the playoffs in plus minus. Anyways, I I'm bullish on
Tatum's outlook. I think the Celtics will be fine. They
might win the title. It's gonna be It's gonna be. Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
The only thing better than sitting on your couch watching
the game. He's making money while you do it. Here's
your best bet, Wokward.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Let's do a best debt for tonight's game and then
I don't know if you have an appetite for game
in Indie, Rob, but any thoughts on Wolves bouncing back
and Pacers headed home.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I'm a big believer in the Minnesota Timberwolves here tonight
in this game because they cannot afford to go down
oh two at home. Like. This is not the Denver
Nuggets of last series, where they have some kind of
experience in championship medal to lean on when things get tough, right,
So I know they won that series, But most cases,
if you fall down two at home heading back to Dallas,
(19:31):
like you're asking to get sweat, and I think Minnesota
is too good for that. I think that what we've
seen historically from Luca Kyrie and these MAVs is they
kind of rest on their laurels at times when they shouldn't.
So I'm expecting Minnesota not only to win the game,
but to cover what I see as a five and
a half. So give me Minnesota even giving up the points.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
So it's interesting. I think a lot of people are
going Minnesota' zigzact theory and such. But Denver lost at
home in Game one. Everybody and their mom was on
Denver bouncing back, and uh, Denver got destroyed. And I
just wonder if Minnesota, if they just don't show up
here at home. Remember day that Game seven win and
(20:13):
not that took a lot out of them, but I
think Game seven was it was It felt like they
probably won the championship, and so there's a natural letdown,
And I just I don't know that Dallas all of
a sudden is gonna have another six for twenty three
three point game. I don't see that in the card.
So they're gonna shoot better, and what's what's the counter?
What is Minnesota gonna do better? And is gonna score
more points?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Probably, but I don't know if he definitely is, Like
he's going up against a legit rim protector and Lively
and Gafford's not bad either. So I'm gonna go ahead
and take the plus five with Dallas. I'm greedy, probably
give back my Game one winnings, but I'll take the
MAVs tonight, getting the points again. No money line for me,
but that's it. Enjoy the weekend. Back on Monday. Talk
to you then,
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