Colin Cowherd Podcast - Bears Win The Offseason, Cousins/Penix Situation Could Get Awkward, No New Weapons For Dak, Kevin Durant Is Irrelevant - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
All right, John Middlecoff is about to stop by to
talk NFL Draft for about an hour. We're going to
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(01:34):
John Middlecoff, former NFL scout. Three and Out is his
podcast every Sunday night. We chop it up probably forty
five of the fifty two weeks. Here we chop it.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Up for an hour. You know, he deserves some time
off once in a while.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
So the NFL Draft over the course of the weekend.
So my one take about the draft, well I got several,
but my first one is Dallas didn't draft a running
back and didn't draft a receiver until the round. So
you know, Jerry hasn't been to a Super Bowl in
on almost three decades. So what Jerry doesn't want to

(02:08):
do is get trapped with Dak Prescott. And I thought
it was strategic. I thought that was Jerry Jones saying, listen,
we're gonna rely on you Dak this year. We're not
giving you all this, AMMO. We're going to rebuild the
offensive line. You'll get protection, but in a contract year,
the last thing I'm gonna do is load you up

(02:28):
with weapons. Dak's production's absolutely gonna come down. I mean,
they just don't have a running back of note on
the roster, and people could say, well, you're tanking the year.
They're not tanking the year. They'll be a good football team.
But it felt strategic to me to not address running
back and really frankly not address receiver until in the

(02:49):
sixth round. That didn't feel like just a bad stroke
of luck to me.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
I'm torn because it's hard for me to be critical
when you ever you go offensive and defensive line early
in the which they have, and they're a good drafting team,
bad running back draft. But let's face it, Colin, until
they give him a contract extension, which they should not.
To me, this is him and McCarthy are playing for
their jobs. I mean, this guy, let's face it. They

(03:15):
paid him a lot of money a couple of years
ago off the broken ankle, and he's been really good
in the regular season. In the playoffs, two out of
three years he was atrocious I mean, he was really
bad three years ago against the Niners in this year,
in that first half in the game was over. Wasn't
all his fault, but he did not play winning football.
The price has gone up dramatically since they gave him
forty million dollars a year just because the market right.

(03:37):
So can you give Dak Prescott fifty five million dollars
a year?

Speaker 3 (03:39):
And you can't?

Speaker 1 (03:41):
I underno, And he's better than Tua. But I say
the same thing about Tua. If you're in that business
long term, you're signing up at best to be a
one and done playoff team. And the other thing is,
let's face it, the Eagles have a lot more talent
on their roster, dramatically, more top to bottom. So you
look at a team.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
I mean AJ Brown, DeVante Smith, Saquon Barkley better at
tight end and an athlete in their prime at quarterback.
I mean I don't at Lane Johnson at right tackle.
I don't think it's necessarily close. I mean, I think
you're being kind saying they have more talent. I think
it's lobsided in favor of Philly Well.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
And if Michael Parson is the best defensive player of
the group. It's not like the Eagles haven't invested in
that side the last couple of years in the draft
with Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis. They just draft. They get
the top corner in this draft with Cooper Degen as
their second round pick, who a lot of people had
and Howie even said we had a first round great
on him as well. Darius Slay is an older player,
but he's still a solid starter. They'll get rid of

(04:38):
Brad Berry the Eagles, and now you add Fangio and
Kellen Moore to the mix because last year their coaches
really let him down. Like to me, this is anything
less like one takeaway after the draft for the NFC East,
I don't think the Giants are very good. Washington's in
this rebuild mode. The Eagles have no excuse not to
win this division. Fil I mean last year they imploded.
Dallas kind of lucked into it at the end, remember,

(04:59):
but they should not like that. There should be a
two or three game difference now. I think Dallas is
gonna be good. I'm talking, you know, nine ten wins,
but the Eagle there should be a gap between the
two teams.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
I don't think there's any question and listen, there's a
line with Dak Prescott. If he does not get one
hundred yards run support, dex wins about thirty five percent
of his games. So it did feel like to me
they got the cap issues, so you had to address
running back in the draft. You're not gonna fine running back, well.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
They don't really exist. You just got to get lucky
with an undrafted free agent. Basically you're keeping your fingers crossed.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
I will say this in terms of everybody always wants
to know who wins the draft. I've had the same
formula as long as I can remember, and I usually
do it on the Monday after the draft. I'm not
going to project how great your fourth, fifth, sixth, and
seventh round picks are, but I will judge your off
season based on your free agent signings and your first
two or three picks, where I get more certainty. I

(05:58):
think the Chicago Bears are a completely different football team
with Keenan Allen, DeAndre Swift, Gerald Everett, Caleb Williams and Romadonze.
That's a completely different offense. If you're asking me who
won the offseason in terms of personnel, might take his
Chicago won't even look the same. I thought Green Bay
got better, but I don't think Chicago will even look

(06:21):
the same.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, I mean, I listen, it's hard not to like Chicago.
I mean, what they've done in the last twelve months.
I think that trade that Ryan Poles made it's got
to go down as one of the great trades of
all time. I mean, it really does. And it's one
that Carolina would like, Yeah, and to get rid of. Basically,
they traded all that for Bryce Young that if you
could do a redo, they would laugh in your face
and Carolina would would throw in picks to swap it back.

(06:45):
So yeah, I think. I think the hype on Caleb,
which is the nature of this beast, the same thing
happened to Trevor Lawrence. He does not need to be
immediately a superstar. He just needs to be solid, right,
And they should be good because last year they could
have been a playoff team if their quarterback could have
just functioned from the pocket. Couldn't function from the pocket.
Now you add Keenan Allen and Romaduon say, you know

(07:07):
the best part about romadonsay, he doesn't have to do
that much like he was the lead dogg at Washington,
which had about fifteen guys draft that it felt like
and he was a fantastic player, but he gets to
ease in a lot of people like Marvin Harrison, we
talked about this last on Thursday, has no choice. Anything
less than eighty ninety catches. They're not getting enough out
of them given what in his group. So Rome, if

(07:30):
he just has forty five to fifty catches, maybe six touchdowns,
you're awesome. Even though it's the ninth pick. You'd like
a little more. But given this team this year, Keenan
probably be only there one year. So next year he
takes a bigger jump. But they're not as dependent on
their young wide receiver as a lot of teams are
when they draft a guy high.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
They're also going to have a fourth place schedule, so
that helps.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, And divisions hard. The division's hard. It might be
the best division in football.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
I think offensively. I've said this. I think last time
we were on you could make a Pro Bowl offense
out of that division that he's compete with the NFL,
I mean, there's just stars everywhere. And I also thought,
I'll say this about the NFC and North I thought
Green Bay. If you count Josh Jacobs Xavier McKinney in
free agency, upgrade it back really good safety along with Morgan,

(08:20):
Jordan Morgan the tackle from Arizona, Edrian Cooper the linebacker,
and m who I heard the Rams like Bullarded the
safety from Georgia. Like that's five really good players. So
Green Bay. You know, it's interesting. If you told me
two teams that draft well in the last decade, I

(08:41):
would actually say Green Bay in Tampa. But they're so
divergent in terms of success because one gets the quarterback
right and one hasn't. I always feel with Jason light
if you go look at Tampa's first four picks, I
loved him. I think he's one of the best drafters
in the league. They can't get quarterback right. The difference
is and by the way, classic Michael who fell to
the seventh, Green Bay gets him. He won't see the

(09:02):
field for.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Three years and you'll look up.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
He's a big kid six three, two twenty, not a
huge jar, But you look up in three years and
be like, what's a functional starter in the NFL? But
that division, You know, it's really interesting about Chicago, Green Bay, Detroit, Minnesota, Minnesota,
maybe the most talented potential fourth place team that I
can remember. I was doing this over the course of

(09:26):
the weekend. I was writing down everybody's ten best players
in that division. There is not much that separates Detroit Minnesota,
like it's inches not. If Darnald plays well, you could
see Minnesota to the last weekend competing well.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Isn't it a good example? He used Jason light They
had no quarterback. They insert Brady at forty two years
old and just start dominating. Right. So if they would
have the same roster, you would have put Aaron Rodgers,
the same thing would have happened. Look at last year,
Baker had what seventy five percent of the season, was
pretty solid, and they were a playoff team and they
kicked the Eagles ass and they were right. They're in
the second playoff game with the Lions. So the quarterback position,

(10:02):
which I'm sure we'll talk about, is so important. But
I'm with you, like I think Green Bay is going
to be very, very dependent on this. Jeff Haffley, the
guy that they hired from Boston College, who was very
well thought of. Kyle Shanahan really liked them the Ohio
State When Ryan Day first got the job, made him
a code defensive coordinator. But he's got to be good

(10:23):
because that's really been the downfall of their operation right
just and really goes back to McCarthy with some of
their great teams with Aaron Rodgers and listen, Mickveigh, what
do they do defense? Right away? Kyle Shanahan, what's he
always doing defense? They're all the top teams, even Dan
Campbell their first two picks corners, and they've invested heavily

(10:44):
in the defensive line. So you're playing a lot of
teams in your conference, Howie Roseman over the last couple
of years, Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis Cooper, Dejen Mitchell, the tale.
It's just defense. They just invest in that side of
the ball. We know Green Bay and now LA Floor
is well established. They're going to score a lot of
points and they have explosive players. Jacobs. I think Josh
Jacobs better player. Saquon Barkley. I mean that guy is

(11:06):
when he's healthy, he's a top two or three running
back in the NFL. But it's gonna come down to defense,
And like you said, in that division, Listen, I don't
know how good Sam Darnold's going to be But if
you catch them on the right day with those offensive weapons,
they could score thirty five points. So it's just you
better a lot of pressures on that higher. You know,
he got rid of Joe Berry, who was his buddy.

(11:27):
It wasn't going as well. Not all his fault. Sometimes
it's the players too, but they've invested. They have invested
a lot of picks, right, The Packers have on that
side of the ball over the last half decade, a
ton of high round picks on defense.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, And it's funny because the Bears won seven games
last year and they may not win more than eight
this year. That's why I feel like, don't judge the
Bears and Caleb on wins. The division is I think
it is the best division in football. It's certainly the
best division in terms of skill people. I mean that
the receiving talent and the tight end talent and that

(12:01):
division is insane. Yeah, it's like seven really in the
in the division, there's seven good tight ends.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
Gerald Effert's a good, solid being tied end in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
I do want to I do want to get into
the quarterback thing because I was I've said this for
several years. I think the Writers have a good roster,
they just don't have the tight end.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
Right.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
They're a little bit like Tampa. So back to back
they go get Brock Bauers, mayor the Notre Dame kid.
Last year they've.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Got they drafted the center from Oregon, right.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
So and I was texting with Tom te LESCo. Without
divulging too much, I said, what you should be rooting
for is Bryce Young and Will Levis to hit, I said,
because then next year the number of teams that need
a quarterback, Giants will probably take a swing. Jets will,
but I'm not sure it's in the first round. You'll

(12:54):
want to get airon some help. But I said, you know,
if you look at last year's quarterback class and this
year's quarterback class, and there's not a lot of teams, Okay,
Will Levis my guess they'll move off him. Maybe Bryce
Young has to buy Thanksgiving and they got him some
more pieces, has to do something. I think the Giants

(13:15):
will eventually draft somebody. But John I went through it
this morning. Also on the on the free agent market,
you could have Tua and Dak.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yeah, there's no.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Question now I think I think Jerry will re sign him.
But it's interesting with the Raiders, were you know, I
was going back and forth and I said, what you
want to do if you're the Raiders next year? If
you're and they'll probably finish fourth in division based on
quarterback and you know, a defensive coach facing offensive coaches.
I was like, you could win seven games, finished fourth,

(13:46):
have an eight pick. Just cross your fingers. There may
not be more than three teams in the league next
year along with the Raiders that need a quarterback.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
I think it hit me on Friday because obviously we
were all and I heard your take on the Cousin's
Penick situation with you know, kind of being an insurance policy.
I think if everyone got to redo this offseason, because
when March fifteenth hits, you know, teams like the Raiders
and the Falcons, they didn't make the playoffs, so they
have had two and a half months to kind of

(14:16):
prepare it. Now. The Raiders were hiring. Some people say
with the Falcons too, so there were some moving parts.
It wasn't like a seamless transition. I think if you
can get a redo, you would do something pretty simple.
Christian Wilkins the Atlanta Falcons. The Raiders wouldn't sign him.
They would have signed Kirk Cousins to one hundred million
dollar deal instead of the defensive lineman. Because they have
a team full of high end guy they have no quarterback.

(14:39):
And the Falcons would have signed Gardner Minshew or Sam
Darnold for ten million dollars and drafted the twenty four
year old quarterback who's going to be ready to go,
and sign the defensive lineman and listen, I don't blame
the Raiders. They kind of got stuck. When you're drafting
not in the top ten, you don't control everything. Once
Penix goes, that's the guy I think that they like.

(15:00):
Maybe they got stuck, But when you're in this no
man position, what do you do? You know, Gardner Minshew's
not fixing your problems. Gardner Minshew and Sam Darnold fix
your problems when you can invest in a young quarterback
and give you a little breathing room. But to me,
the Raiders they drafted players that everyone loved. I bet
the entire league you're not going to meet one coach

(15:22):
or GM that didn't like Brock Bowers as a high
end player. Right, But what does he do for you
when your two quarterbacks are Gardner Minshew and O'Connell from
Purdue and it's no one's fault, Like this is kind
of who they had the cousins thinks maybe he wouldn't
have been that interested. Arthur Blank has more cash, so
the way he can structure a deal. But going back

(15:43):
to Atlanta, you only get so many resources. I remember
how he said this in a couple of years ago
in a press conference. Every team in the league. What
makes the NFL different than all these other leagues. Everyone
has the same resources. We all have the same amount
of money and the same around amount of draft picks.
You just choose how you use them. Right. The reason
the Browns have no first round picks they traded for
to Shawn Watson and they allocate a lot of money

(16:04):
to him. Well, once you allocate all this money to
Cousins like the Atlanta Falcons did, when you draft a
quarterback high, one of his great attributes is the contract, right,
So using that money to sign Christian Wilkins, Well, the
quarterback position only one guy can be on the field.
And this guy is not McCarthy or a Drake May

(16:24):
who is a you know, a project, the guy that
you want to not force on the field. He is.
He was probably the most beside Caleb, like you just
want to see him play right away, right, And I
think this goes back to they fell in love with
him over the last month. Well, what the hell were
you doing six months ago? What were you doing? You
would have known at the combine this is just bad.
Like part of the draft, the planning goes if you

(16:46):
find Howie Roseman or Veitch, they've been planning the shit
for six months, building out strategies. It feels like these
guys are flying by the seat of their pants. No
one would argue, and I'm with you, you're better off
having more invested in the quarterback position doubling down. But
the resources here are a little funky. And Chris Sim's
had a good tweet. He's like, well, Cousins, not gonna
be ready at OTA's. Who's gonna be out there slinging?

(17:07):
It's all these young guys. It's gonna be Pennix. So
is there gonna be a natural gravitation? You know, there's
an age gap all of a sudden, like why are
we playing this old guy? If this young guy it
could get weird, and it could get weird fast.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, listen, it's it's it was odd and it's not
what I would have done. But my takeaway is Arthur
BLANKSKT is in the eighties.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
He's getting old.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah, And his takeaway is We've got some really good
young pieces and a great old line. And my take
is you have to be careful about having a strident
opinion when there are realistic scenarios that could ensue. Cousins
could come back and he wasn't mobilele for this, and
you could have a guy that's just a ham and egger.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Secondly sick, which is very likely when you say it
was fifty to fifty chance probably.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
I mean Aaron Rodgers stopped moving about two years ago.
What is he now?

Speaker 2 (18:00):
He's gonna be a pocket quarterback. And the other scenario
is sixty six quarterbacks played last year. Cousins may get hurt.
So I almost feel like Ridder was so bad, Desmond
Ridder was so bad. There's a sense in the building like, listen,
we're not paying any of these young guys yet.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
We're really not.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
We're not paying any of them. They're all just kids.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Let's just let's just go get Cousins to ensure because
I don't know if they thought when they were doing
when they signed Cousins, Pennix was It's funny.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
Pennis had a rollercoaster.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Everybody was red hot on him, then everybody bailed on him.
And then we find out after the draft that four teams,
including Atlanta, were interested in the first round. So he
went from hot to second round prospect to apparently red
hot during the draft. So my take is, you know,
I could see Atlanta being like, Okay, let's let's let's

(18:57):
just sign him. We could get him later and all
of a sudden, because I do know the Seahawks, the
Raiders like teams were interested in them, Like.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
For sure, I got no issue taking them eight, zero
issue taking aim Et. I just think when you plan
an organization, that's the GM's job is to think big picture.
And I understand at the time signing Minshew or signing Darnold,
people would have been like, what the hell are you doing?
But you should have had a pretty good idea because
you've been picking eight for four months now, Like this,

(19:26):
the spot didn't change. You were gonna get that guy.
You have the juice to get that guy at eight
and I just think using that amount of money, because
when you give that amount of guaranteed, and we saw
it with Russell who was bigger, it does stick on
your cap for several years, and that's a position where
you can't use them both. Like sometimes if you miss
on O lineman or a D lineman, you can rotate

(19:47):
guys or wide receivers. I just think you're so dependent
and Cousins, what happens immediately his agents and I like
Mike McCartney, but he immediately comes out like we're blown away.
I saw Colt McCoy say, you know Cousins in pretty sense.
So you get in the when you get in the
sensitive business. And it's not like he doesn't have the
equity of the in the league, like a Brady or
a Rogers, where it's like whatever, we're getting this all

(20:09):
time great player. There are a lot of people are like, hey,
he's good, but how good? I just think the locker
room dynamics and Belichick was always great at this. It's
already weird. It's already going to be weird, especially when
you factor in OTA's are going to start in the
next month and Pennix is going to be out there
because the other guys in the training room getting getting
ready hopefully for training camp. So I mean fundamentally, I

(20:30):
get like investing in the quarterback position goes back to
Bill Walsh and Ron Wolf totally. But when you factor
in the amount of money, it does just limit your ability.
And this is not the other thing with Pennix is
even maybe more than Caleb, Like he's just a plug
and plagu he's twenty five, You're twenty four to twenty
five years old, Like what the hell? Like this is
not a Jordan Love situation. And I think that's where

(20:51):
a lot of people the media can say whatever, but
like the league's pushing back because it's just like a
it's a very bizarre situation. I think it does reflect
the organization who's like, oh, yeah, Belichick, we're too good
for Belichick. It's Frank, who the fuck are you guys?

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Now, I listen.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
I mean at times I called it illogical and on
its surface, you know, my take was Friday is listen is.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
I think it's financially illogical more than football illogical, right.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Like I'm just this is the worst division in football.
I think they have the best quarterback and maybe the
best backup in the league. I'm like, it make mistakes
at that position, just go for it. I'm okay with it,
but it but it And it Also what's interesting, I
would have much more of a problem because I think
they paid what did they paid Cousins one for Was
it like one hundred and forty?

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah? I think I think the fake number was closer
to one to eighty. But they gave him one hundred
true guaranteed money and like basically seventy million dollars over
the next eighteen months, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
So it's very front loaded. What worries me is that
Dak and Tua, with their current teams, will want double that.
So I always feel like with Cousins might take it's
all front loaded. If Thanksgiving of the second year you're
done with him, you're fine. Dak wants a five year deal,
and it's like pan three point fifty for Dak is.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Literally a I'm with you there. I'd rather give Cousins
one hundred than Dak to fifty. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, So if all the bad things you can do,
I can live with a year and a half of
Cousins on the field competing.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
I can live with them.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
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(23:29):
top cards and more. You know, I thought Harball was
going to have U there were going to be more
fireworks with the chargers. I did think they got a
couple of really interesting pieces, a couple of small school guys.
But I think by and large, the Joe allpick was
interesting because they have a left tackle. Though Slater had

(23:52):
an injury and all, it's kind of an He's an athlete,
he was a high school basketball player. He's he's moved around,
he's been a he's a very good apple.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
You see the pictures after we got off of him
sitting with his family. How massive that human being is.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
So it's one of those things where I never bought
into them taking a wide receiver.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
I just didn't buy And everybody's mock draft have them
at receiver, and I'm thinking.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
That's just not what They're not going to get. Some
skinny kid from LSU who's so I mean to me,
the pick made sense. But I didn't think the Chargers
had that many fireworks. I thought they did this basic stuff,
played in the gym. You know, I think they got
a linebacker, if I recall from the Michigan Yeah, but
I didn't. I didn't think there was a ton of

(24:37):
fireworks with the Chargers.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
You know what's funny is most people, up until the
last couple of weeks when I think a lot of
people around the NFL like Gym's not taking a wide receiver, guys,
So we can stop talking about that. But even the
second pick in Lad McConkie, you know a lot of
people have been like, go get Herbert, go trade up
and get a Savior worthy or you know, get Keon Coleman,
the guy that Bills took, and he took Lad McConkey.

(25:01):
You know who's gonna end up to me being more
Edelman Wes Welker can play right in the slot receiver.
Jim's not into this sexy football. He's not trying to
be you know, Lane Kiffin or Lincoln Riley. That's not
the way he coaches. He coaches like he's prepared to
pay play Mike Ditka and Joe Gibbs back in nineteen

(25:21):
eighty eight. And that's the way that's been successful up
into him three months ago when he won the national championship. Fundamentally,
that's and I think when he said we view offensive
lineman as weapons, he's not making a joke. He's being
serious as a hard attack because he truly believes that.
So justin Herbert, like they are, I'm actually a little
shocked that they didn't get Blake Korum. I'm pissed the

(25:42):
Rams and I love that pick, but that it's just
he's going to the football is going to look no
different than if you pull up Stanford year one in eight.
It's going to look the exact same. And it looked
the same into the forty nine ers. Early on in
Michigan he changed for a minute. Remember when he hired Gaddis,
spread guy from alb and he hated it and he
hated it. And then who became his right hand man,

(26:05):
Sharon Moore? What's the an O line coach? And that
guy became the head. Those are the people he likes.
You see these videos coming out of him at the
at the trailer park. It was not the trailer park,
but you know where he lived right with Greg Roman.
What do they talk about running game? Offensive linemen, they're
all that hybrid of the ravens of him. They're all interconnected.

(26:26):
And I'm just honestly, if you would have told me
he would have drafted all offensive and defensive linemen, those
were the only picks, no wide receivers two weeks ago,
I would have believed you. I mean, that's not how
it played out. But he thinks he can win. If
he's winning at that group, he can figure the rest
out through I would say psychological and physical warfare because

(26:46):
he wants to shove you around. And let's face it,
most teams in the NFL, you know, when you look
at like once we get to the final four of
the final eight, it's a lot of physical teams and
the soft team. Some teams that can score, they got
no shot. They got no shot. And you look at
the final four, who wasn't It was the Niners, it
was the Ravens, it was the Chiefs. What have the
lions become under Dan Campbell? Dan Campbell's got a little

(27:09):
Jim Harbaugh in him. Yeah right, And I would say
they throw it a little more than Jim. But that's
part of It's their weapons. Saint Brown's a fantastic player,
but it starts with the offensive and defensive lines with them,
and that's where they've invested the last couple years. Even
Saint Brown, Jim would love Saint Brown. So with Kyle Shanahan,
he's their type, breaks tackles, He's not some sexy outside
wide receiver despite his stats.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Well, this is what the Rams have done the last
two years o line. They paid two guards. I mean
the Rams said, we're gonna pay guards and their receivers.
Pooka breaks tackles, Cooper Cup breaks tackles.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
Yeah, I think you know it's funny. People tend to.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Think offensive coaches are clever and they want finesse. But
McVeigh changed his offense to more power running. That's why
Korum was so valuable. They needed Kyra and Williams, they
needed a backup. They invested an interior line. Shanahan likes
physical football. Harball likes physical football. Andy Reid is a little.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
He's he's unique around.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
He's a little bit. I almost put him in just
a different class. It's like there are certain people in
every sport that just don't.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Like But think about when that when they picked, when
they pivot, when they pivoted off Tyreek Hill, what did
they do. They've drafted uh McDuffie and Karlovskis with their
two picks right away. So he's invested heavily on that
side of the ball this year. Xavier Worthy, he was
too hard for them to pass up with the speed.
But I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
So I went and it was interesting. I went and
I went and looked at all my divisions. So we're
basically through it now. We have new coaches, we have
free agency staffs are all for that.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
We have the draft, and.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
I'll just do the first and last place teams and
stop me, this is.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
What this is what you think coming up or this
was based on last year?

Speaker 2 (28:56):
This this season? I have Buffalo first, New England last, Yes,
Baltimore first, Cleveland last. Cleveland had a weird.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Draft since he since he could be a wild card there,
Burrows healthy.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah, I put them second, Kansas City first, Raiders last,
tough division, Houston first, Tennessee's an easy last, Philly first,
I have Giants last. I'm with it, Detroit first, Minnesota last,
though it's close, Atlanta first, New Orleans last, or Carolina

(29:30):
kind of question mark. I have the Rams first, and
I have Seattle last. I think the Rams are I
thought they really nailed their first four picks. I thought
they really Yeah, is anything so we can argue about
the second and third teams, but any of those first
and last you would push back on.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, let's talk about McVeigh because I thought he's a
good example what Kyle and Andy and these offensive coaches
have invested in physical players because they know that they
can scheme guys open. And he invests his first pick
in Verse, who's been a few as a first rounder
this whole year. They heard him, they loved him, this
second round pick. One of the guy. When I started

(30:09):
at Fresno State, we had a student assistant who has
worked his way up and he's been with Oregon State.
He's been the GM for Florida State for like the
last three years. And he's Derek Ray. He's you know,
if we talked about college gms like we do NFL GMC,
I mean, look at his draft. I mean how many
guys at Florida State were has picked. He's done a
great job working hand in hand with Norvel. I said,
what this Brandon Fisk guy, Brandon Fisk tell me about him?

(30:32):
He said, think Max Crosby. But inside, so their first
two picks, you know, we know that's how Verse kind
of plays power, That's what this guy plays. So you're
never going to replace Aaron Donald. But they go back
to back picks basically in what fifteen to twenty pick,
because they traded up, they got they got Fisk in
the top forty, so they invest immediately and they get

(30:53):
Blake korm who if he's healthy. We've seen how this
guy was a heartbeat of one of the better college
football programs we've seen over the last twenty years. I mean,
it's like Jim Harbaugh's favorite player since Frank Gore. So
I think the gap shrunk a little bit. And I
think Kyle Shanahan showed you something drafting that wide receiver
in the first round. Deebo Samuel could not get open
to Super Bowl. He can't run routes. And I'm not

(31:14):
trying to talk about dede Ball. I love him. He's
a lot of stuff he does in football. I admire
a lot the physicality, the ability to make plays, but
he is limited as a wide receiver. He can't get open,
and I think Kyle was tired of him, and it's
not at this point in time, it's not going to change.
He kind of is what it is. So maybe Deebo,
moving forward, you're gonna be on this new kickoff return
guy and you'll kind of come in with McCaffrey in

(31:36):
the backfield. But we need to run. We need to
have wide receivers like a yuk who can run routes
and because like look at the Rams. They got a
bunch of guys that can run routes. I can't scheme
up every single play. We got guys on defense, we
got guys on offense. But that they drafted Piersoll like
that clearly was something that rattle Shanahan, just like McVeigh, like,

(31:58):
we need to be even more physic if we're going
to get over that hump against all these great offenses.
And they double down. So I think I think those
two teams right there with the Lions, right there with
the Packers, right there with the Eagles. I gu it's
pretty clear with the NFC who's who the cream of
the crop is, right.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, And I think I also think you have to
take this into consideration. Is Debo McCaffrey's had injuries in
his career, Trent Kittle, you can't have your four top
guys all feel like they're older than their age. Like
if you have Ayyuk is a kid, right, he's.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Just moving into his prime.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Doesn't get hurt off if you're going to move off
and next year they have to address left tackle because
Trent is a wall.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
But I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
I look at the NFC and I think it's I mean,
the Rams were so much better than everybody thought. I
knew going into the weekend. They felt Brock Bauers could
start for him. Two of the defensive ends they thought
were really good, the Ucla kid and Jared Verse.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
They love those two.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
And then I knew they loved a couple different defensive
linemen and the Florida State guy Fisk is one of them.
And then I felt Blake Cole.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
I mean, I.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
Knew they loved Korum, but I mean they when people
got on them for giving up a second round pick
and a fifth to move up, they really felt like
they needed two starters in the defensive line, a great
backup running back for Kien Williams, and a playmaking guy
in the back the Miami kid. Like they didn't have
a lot of needs, a lot of their stuff after
those picks. Interior lineman Kicker, the Texas receivers were the

(33:26):
a special teams guy, otherwise they would have taken Taj
Washington from USC. They who they liked a lot, but
they needed a special teams guy. So I mean, I
think a lot of these teams come into the weekend,
the NFC teams, and the Rams are one of them.
I think people forget this for the elite teams, and
I consider the Rams in a group of about seven
or eight, they come in kind of thinking we need

(33:46):
two starters and like two really crucial productive backups.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
But I've never had a.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Problem John with giving away picks to go get up
and get a guy. Now, when you were with the Eagles,
what was the theory on that, because I think all
the all the draft picks. Here's my point, Rams had
eleven picks. There's not eleven guys that can make the
team in this draft.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Well, how he's going to be there forever? So he
balanced his short and long term better than anybody. It's
why they're always going up to get guys and then
may they made. They led the league in trades this year,
and they acquired a third, a fourth, and a fifth.
Sean McVay almost went to Amazon a year ago. You're
living in the present with this guy. You are doing
everything possible in twenty four to twenty five, hopefully twenty six.

(34:30):
Is Sean McVeigh gonna be there in five years. I'm
with you. A lot of teams give away a second
round pick, little this is this is about the present
to me. They clearly the Niners the last couple of
years have been twelve thirteen, and there was a gap,
you know, even between them last year. To me that
they're both eleven twelve win teams in the NFC, I
have no problem with trading up. One thing how he

(34:51):
did is acquiring the third, fourth, and fifth. He thought
because of this weird kind of couple of years, Fan
we've been on. With these extra years, a lot of
these guys, did you know to some of these guys
getting drafted started playing in twenty eighteen. I mean there
were guys. There was a Jayden Daniels video that went
viral of him throwing the ball to Brandon Ayuk against
Justin Herbert. You know, with Leonor playing corner for Oregon.

(35:15):
He's been on the Niners for like four years. So
it's all out of whack. Well, a lot of the
underclassmen this year who teams thought were gonna be from
anywhere from forty to like one hundred guys that would
have been drafted on the second day went back to
school for an nil. So the drafts viewed as a
little deeper next year, and I think some teams kind
of factored that in Sean McVay doesn't give a crap

(35:36):
about anything, a lot like Sean Payton. It's very much
these next couple of years and then we'll figure it
out that the aftermath. The one thing with the Rams
have going for him, and you hit on their team's
pretty young now, right, A lot like the Packers. I
don't view it now. They're quarterbacks aging, which is a
unique situation for them, and he's there's a lot of
wear and tear on those tires. But as we saw,

(35:57):
when Matt Stafford is upright and healthy, easy a top
five quarterback in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
Yeah, the you know, it was funny. I felt.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
I felt the Bears and the Packers came out of
off season real winners. I thought the Rams came out
of this draft as real winners. Atlanta's his quirky and
time will tell I actually the pick I hated. I
thought they reached by almost a round on the defensive lineman,

(36:29):
which was a weird pick for them. That was the
one I'm like, oh yeah, I went to all I
went to all the draft profiles, I went to all
the mock drafts like that.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Well, the Illinois defensive tackle goes a couple of picks later,
he was widely viewed as a top thirty player that
the Washington got.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah, I thought that was just a miss. I mean,
if if Pennix ends up being great, we're gonna forget
about the Kirk Cousins deal very quickly. We're just not
even gonna We're not even gonna care about it. That
was just a bad pick. I thought Atlanta had a
weird last week. I I and I know people to
talk a lot about the Dallas Cowboys to the point
of exhaustion. I I thought Dallas had a weird draft,

(37:10):
and I thought Tennessee taking alignment. The Titans are a
mystery to me. So they take this Devonte sweat guy
from Texas. So when I went to the Chargers war
room years ago, they had a list of like eight
guys that were off the board. There was a drug issue.
There were no gohoses, Like, I don't know what the
hell Tennessee is doing like that. I mean to me,

(37:33):
that team needs players that will produce with no questions.
That may have been the weirdest pick of the weekend.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Well, to me, you have when you get a new
young head coach, you're in a position where you want
to be very a smooth transition. Look at Washington, a
lot of high character team captains, not screwing around. You
can eventually, I'm sure we'll get into Ballard. Take a
guy I think that had some question marks in the
second round when your team is full of team captain,
high character guys. The Titans a couple of years ago

(38:03):
drafted a Georgia offensive lineman who is one of the
biggest busts in recent memory. I think he's out of
the league, Wilson. And then to get a guy and listen,
I'm not some moral high horse. That's not my style.
Drinking whatever. We've all made mistakes when we were young.
But there were a lot of question marks with this
guy's drinking, and he admitted to it with teams, and

(38:24):
then three weeks before the draft, he gets a DUI
on Sunday afternoon. Sunday afternoon, he weighs three hundred and
seventy pounds, So to get a dui over point one,
the amount of alcohol he has to take is a
lot different than me or you under two hundred pounds,
so you just start factoring that in. He was off
draft boards, not even a question off several draft boards,

(38:45):
just because like not even worth it. I've been to
Nashville twice, probably been a total of twelve or thirteen days.
I drank every single day I was there. It is
a party town. No, there is a lot going on.
It is much closer for people that haven't been there
to New Orleans or Vegas. Then most people realize there
was at and they play in their stadium is right
in the mix. So to have a guy it's one

(39:08):
thing if you're like, well, he fell to the fifth round.
This guy was a second round talent. Okay, they drafted
him right where his value. Who's going to go early
second round? Best case if everything off the field was clear,
because he's a run stop, you know, stopping defensive tackle,
not a pass rusher. I don't get it. When you
just had a character issue a couple of years ago
and this guy literally got a duy a month ago

(39:30):
and you already knew those were question marks, and you
have a brand new head coach.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
Why would you screw with this?

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Why would you mess with it? I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, no, I thought that was the worst pick of
the weekend. And I also think you're right. Nash Vegas
is what they call it. And I also think that
I was told years ago. It may have been my
Mike Lombardi when he was at FS one. Briefly he said, listen,
if you're in a port city, New York, you know,

(39:59):
Los Angeles, Miami, it's Miami. Like those are livelier city.
There's more restaurants, there's more alcohol. Those are those are
port city is a fun Yeah, And he's like, you know,
Green Bay is different. If Sweat goes fourth round to
the Packers and you're like, well, he could be at
the Marriott Bar.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
That's about it.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
It does feel different than going second round of the Titans.
All stuff is circumstantial in this league, and so to me,
I think I've just gotten to the point with Tennessee.
I always thought they were well run. I think they're
a bit of a bit of an S show. I
really do. The last couple of years letting go of
Rabel and I know Mike. I've talked to Mike on
the phone, I've texted him. I don't think they know

(40:40):
what they're doing. I just do not think they know
what they're doing.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
I like the new coach he brings his dad. I mean,
I was pretty bullish on what they're gonna do. But
this general manager, Ran Karthin. You know, he came out
and said a couple of weeks ago in his press conference,
this is my first draft, taking a shot at Mike, like,
no one let me do anything before. Like good luck, buddy.
I mean, this is not He comes the forty nine
ers where they were not messing with this type stuff.
So to do it if it is your first quote

(41:05):
unquote draft, I just I can't get over It's one
thing like Dak Remember he got a Dewey or whatever
got in trouble, but everyone knew the character was not
a question. It's like, listen, he made a bad mistake,
stupid whatever, a guy with consistent character marks. When you
get in trouble for the draft, it's like absolutely no
chance I can trust you. Zero with a high pick

(41:25):
because I'm investing taking a guy in the top forty.
That's a valuable, valuable pick. I mean, some of those
guys in the from thirty two to thirty eight are
going to turn out to be some of the best
players in the draft. That happens every single year. So
to invest in that player after you got in trouble
in your city is like It's like the opposite of
what the Rams are doing, getting super right character. You know,

(41:46):
got guys that everyone swears my Like, what are we
talking about?

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Then?

Speaker 1 (41:49):
This is why I saw it at the combine. It's
so enlightening. You walk by and you just see like, yeah,
this team's got no shot. This team's got no shot.
This team from the circles around you, it's it's not
a fair fight.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Yeah I was. I spent the weekend.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
I spent Saturday eight hours eating smoking cigars and cocktails
with Steve Kime. We had like one of the great
days of our lives. We found a cigar bar and
we just talked NFL, watched the draft and talk stories
and some of the stuff Steve Khime had to deal
with in Arizona. He was with him like twenty four years.
I mean, he got like the first scouting job up.

(42:23):
I don't think fans. I don't think fans realized two things.
One half of these owners are impossible to work with.
Just I mean, listen, Ballard is dealing with the most
impulsive guy in the league, bid Well, Woody Johnson. Woody
Johnson like beyond it would be like having the worst

(42:43):
boss of your life. Not really beholden to any corporate struck.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Who owns the company, has the unlimited money, and who's nuts.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Kime had to deal with stuff here on game day
and after games, parking space issues, when you got a
right tackle that his season ended. It's insane. And the
other thing is fans tend to think everybody's equally competent,
and it's like, I mean, there are people in every industry,

(43:13):
including the NFL, that just they just.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
Don't know what they're doing. And I think, I mean.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
I there are power struggles going on with coaches. I
mean Bill Belichick his last five years when he controlled
the draft. I mean I talked to a GM over
the weekend who said, you wanted to do business with them?
Like Bill didn't really quite know what he was doing
in the personnel. He didn't really know exactly what he

(43:41):
was doing. He was a great coach, but you could
work him a little bit in personnel. So I think
you look at Tennessee right now and it just doesn't
look organized, you know, And I think this is I
think it's a I think it's a problem throughout the league.
I think I think some I mean, let's be honest,
the Raiders don't feel as buttoned up as Kansas City.
I think everybody can see it.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, and the Chargers immediately get two guys one from
Baltimore and Jim Harbaugh and feel like they know what
they're doing right now. I always thought Tom's a good GM,
but the Brandon's Day element, it's hard because you have
to You can't just draft players you like that your
coaching staff doesn't like. So there's always a give and take.
But when you have I watched a lot of press
conferences after the draft on all the days, and McVeigh

(44:21):
had a really good take where he's like the symmetry
seven eight years into this make's doing business a lot
easier with the two of us and our scouts and
our coaches, like, we kind of know what we're doing now, right.
John Lynch and Kyle shanahan have been in a draft
room and Sean mcvahan, let's need for eight years together.
That's longer than Howie and Sirianni and a lot of

(44:42):
Brett Veach and Andy Reid have been together.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Now.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Javitch hasn't always been his GM for twenty plus years.
Right when the Ravens come on, you know, Ozzie knwsom
restired like five years ago. He still sits at the
head of the table. He sits at the head of
the table like where your dad or grandfather would sit.
Eric the Costa sits next to him. So it shows
their power dynamic. John Harbaugh has been the coach there
since what six o seven, Like they're just on the

(45:06):
same page.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
I asked Steve Geim, I said, who's the best run
franchise in the league. He said Baltimore. He said Baltimore.
He said the owner is down in Florida, never medals
and powers his employees. He said Baltimore is.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
They're well funded, so they have unlimited money.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Yeap.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Totally supportive of Harbaugh, he said, you know, and Steve,
you're not going to throw people under the bus. But
he said, colin this a half of the gms in
the league are pulling their hair out six times a year.
You're just dealing with nonsense. And he said Baltimore. He
listed five or six. But he said Baltimore is as
well run as any organization. It starts with a very

(45:44):
competent owner, whose hands off, who spends the money. And
you know, because if you already think about it, John
the best business in America. I'll make an argument is
owning an NFL team.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
I mean, think about that.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Name another business that gets billions of dollars of free
advertising a year. Essentially, you're a TV show. Oracle's not
a TV show. Apple's not a.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
TV Amazon's not. Well, Amazon kind of got into that business.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah, but it's like it's guarantee. Also, you don't know
if there's disruptions in tech and that Apple is late
on AI and Tim Cook gets fired, they plummet their stock.
You know, Dallas is going to be in Dallas. The
Cowboys are going to be in Dallas, and the Rams
are going to be in Los Angeles, and the Packers
are going to be in Green Bay. These are owning

(46:35):
an NFL team. It's the best business. There's thirty two
in America. Some are the Jags, some are the Steelers.
But and these owners know it. I mean, they know
it it is I mean, and they're old school guys.
And I just pitched the show the other day to AMC,
A football show with a protagonist being the general manager.

(46:57):
And it's without going into too much detail, basically it's juggling.
It's a it's a GM juggling a meddaling owner, a
high profile coach whose wife's a therapist. The quarterback sort
of Aaron Rodgers, prickly who's hitting on the coach his
wife's daughter, you know. And it's as I'm doing it.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
And this thing has Netflix written all over it.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Well, as I'm doing it and writing these stories, and
I gave it to a couple of gms, They're like, oh,
you can take bigger swings.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
It's crazier than this.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
You're not being crazy enough.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
No, they were like, well that's a six. Let me
tell you a story that's way worse than this. So
when you watch the draft and you watch what people do,
this is like any other industry. There's really a lot of.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Chaos and nonsense and incompetence.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
So, well, look at Ballard, who I think is one
of the better gms. Is Ballard, Yeah, because we talked
about his draft, but his owner right now is having
saying things that I was not under the influence. I
did not have an overdose. That's what he's dealing with.
Skuy owns the team. We talked about his first round
pick a lot too. His second round pick. He went
on that rant about the character stuff I think it
was after he drafted Mitchell, the wide receiver from Texas

(48:08):
rap Sheet came on NFL Network and basically said his
interviews had been terrible. He sounded disinterested and I don't
think he's just making that up, and then Ballard got
kind of pushed back against it. I do think this.
I would say Chris's team, he probably of all the
good gms in the league, does not mess with character
at all for the most part. Like that's not really

(48:29):
his mo of guys that he's going to invest high
end right, most of his top highly paid players, guys
he's traded for guys he signed are just I would
call like pristine character to Forest Buckner, Quinnin Nelson, Michael Pittman.
I mean, these are Kenny Moore, super high character guys.
I'm not saying Mitchell's not, but he did have some
question marks. Guys with his talent typically aren't there at

(48:50):
forty five. Now. He was with the Chiefs when they
took Marcus Peters, like he's been around some of this.
That worked out. I think for the first time he realized, like,
if we're really going to compete, because look at Cassarri.
I would say he's kind of similar. Doesn't really meant
well this offseason what he did, he went and got
digs too. We don't even need to debate, like there's
some issues there. So I think Balar realized, like listen,
there was a small gap this year. We didn't have

(49:11):
our starting quarterback. We got to be very careful about
getting an influx of talent, and they took a guy
who you know is very, very talented. I mean I
would say it's immediately.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Just I liked him more than Worthy.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
I Xavier Worthy hurt a lot at Texas, a lot
of drops. Now it'll probably work with Mahomes. But I
said this two weeks ago. He was my bust. He
was the guy that I worry about because I watched
him at Texas. I like Mitchell Moore. I thought he
was more consistently available. He was a better route runner.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
He's bigger, I mean just not that's much slower. I
mean he's still really fast.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Yeah, here's the thing about taking swings on guy with
character issues. So you know mcveigh's got a ring, you
can be a little more precious on that stuff. But
in Belichick had several rings. I thought the undoing Bill
Belichick was on. He told urban Meyer, and urban Meyer
told the audience.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
Right.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
He went on TV and said, Bill said, I just
don't want to I'm going to coach the guys. I
like New England got really untalented over about a five
year period. Bill wanted to coach guys. He you got
to have some badass guys and they're not always choir boys,
like get over it. Like now, I always think if
you have strong leadership. Now when Brady leaves, it may
be different, like you lose that, you'll lose that power leadership.

(50:28):
But if you have good leadership, which the Patriots during
Brady always had a gronk a Brady an element of
defensive guy, you gotta swing. I mean you got to
take some. So to me, if you like your coach
and you think Toforest Bruckner, if you got a handful
Michael Pittman, if your top five or six, Quentin Nelson,
if if you got six dudes in the room, I

(50:50):
have no problem taking a swing on guys. And for
the record, John, there's a term diva receiver, Like it's
not diva safeany like it's a personality position.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
I'm okay with it.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
You know, Moose Johnson. I butchered this quote the other
day when I was recording the podcast after Day two.
I was talking to him on a radio show years ago,
and he said, all the best teams I was on
and played against in the nineties were full of players
of character, a lot of and a couple characters that
could play. There is no team full of choir boys.
You got no shot. Now. You can't have too many

(51:21):
crazy character guys. But sometimes those are your most talented
You've said this for in any industry has them, actors, music,
you name it, salesman, I don't care where you go.
Sometimes the most talented guy in the room is a
little fucking nuts. And if you can corral that and
get the most out of them. And Belichick did this
for a long time. Peyton Manning was able to work
with it over the years, you got a shot. But

(51:43):
I yeah, I mean, I think I know Ballard really
really values that stuff. So clearly they did a lot
of work. And you know this thing about the draft,
you kind of got to be prepared for anything. If
I would have asked them at the beginning of the
draft on Thursday night, and you think that guy's going
to be there for you in the second round. He
would have laughed, he's had no chance. But this is
why when everyone's like, what positions did you scout? I'm like,
well you do everyone like you just because you have

(52:05):
a quarterback, you still you just never know. Things get weird.
And yeah, I think I think the Colts. I actually
think the Colts, if that quarterback is decent, are going
to be right there with the Texans. I think they
got a chance to be pretty good because because the coach.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Yeah, and I think that division is now like pretty heady.
I got Trevor Lawrence. They now with Gabe Davis and
getting Brian Thomas from LSU. You're like Evan Ingram, it's
like Christian.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
Kirk etn Yeah, it's like, oh that's that's that's like
the Bears. That's like real players. And I think Shane
Steichen's going to elevate everybody. You know, Gardner Minsch is
going to go to the Raiders and his numbers are
going to come down significantly. Yeah, you didn't have Shane Steiken.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
And then all of a.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Sudden, Houston. I think Houston has just done so many
smart things. That division now is a real division. And
I think I have the Colts finishing third in that division,
and I like them, like I like Minnesota, they could
finish fourth, like I don't like the New York Giants.
They'll finish fourth. There's a big gap, there's some you
know what, we are getting to a point and I
don't ever remember this. There's so much talent in football

(53:10):
right now and so many good coaches. John They're going
to be third and fourth place teams.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
I like.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
I could see the Jets finishing if Aaron plays seventeen games,
I could see them finishing third and winning nine games.
And I could see Minnesota finishing fourth and winning eight,
and I like them. It used to be the bottom
of the league. It was just crappy. It wasn't the
NBA bad, but it was just bad. It was five
with teams outside of Carolina and the Giants. I'm not

(53:37):
sure there's a day Tennessee. It depends on if Will
Levis can play. But I mean Carolina Giants look hopeless.
Tennessee kind of. That's about it for me.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
That's why I would say this. I mean the Steelers,
Brown's probably gonna finish in fourth, and both those two
teams made the playoffs. Steelers just had a good draft,
drafted multiple offensive lineman high we know they're you know,
the Browns I think are going to be worse than
they were last year with Deshaun Watson. But I'm with you.
The middle of the league is and this is why
it's going to be. It's hard to win thirteen fourteen

(54:07):
games because you're only getting so this is not college
football where you get you know, Rutgers, and then you
get you know, some Arizona State, like they do not
really exist, and if you do, sleep walk on the
New York Giants and Daniel Jones has the best game
of the season, all of a sudden, you're down going
into the fourth quarter. Because college football to me, I
did a little math between Michigan, Washington, Bama, and Texas

(54:30):
the final four. Then if you add the other top
teams Florida State, Georgia, LSU, Oregon, Ohio State, almost fifty
I think officially forty six of the top one hundred
draft picks game from those schools. I mean you could
argue as time goes on that number could even creep higher.
I guess Nick Saban said on Thursday night when he

(54:52):
was on TV that the Toledo corner that the Eagles drafted.
He's like, yeah, he realized he kind of caught himself.
Tried to get him to go into the portal so
then we could sign him, but he wouldn't even go
into the portal, like they just wanted him to go
in the portal then they could make an offer and
get them. But like more and more like that guy
at Toledo that we might not see that for a while.

(55:13):
It's gonna be all these top programs, mainly in the
Big Ten in the SEC, and then Florida State and
Clemson and Notre Dame, who's kind of an acc team
and might inevitably be one, have all the talent in
the draft. I mean that's where all that's where all
the high end guys are coming from those conferences. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
No, I it's really funny because I Eric Shanks is
you know, he runs FS one, and I went to
lunch with him and I said, Eric, the Big Ten's
gonna start squashing people. I'm like, you know, Lincoln Riley's
gonna get it going. Oregon just is a machine.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
Nil. They're up there with like Georgia, Ohio State. Nil money.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Yeah, Ucla is kind of mailing in their football program.
I think they're going to go back to heavy basketball.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
That's my guess.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Where we only need about four million a year in
IL to really be an elite bat cheaper, you need
about twelve in football, and UCLA just just just can't
generate that on an annual basis, or or their donors
have it but don't want to give it up. But
I look at college football right now, and this is
you know, John, We've talked about this big eat, small scale,
beats boutique in every business. College football has always been

(56:19):
a bit lobsided. I think we're going into a eight
programs will basically eat the sport, and I'm okay with
it because my take is I'm not staying home to
watch the Holiday Bowl, and I love college football. You
start looking at the Big ten in the SEC games
from this point forward, now that you've out of Texas Oklahoma,

(56:40):
there's no reason really to watch any other conference. I'll
watch Notre Dame, I won't. I mean, now the Pac
twelve's gone, there's just no reason to watch the Big
twelve or the ACC outside of a Clemson.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
I mean, yeah, like Florida State's going to be Boston
College by thirty points. It's not even a game.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
So it's like I'm i I'm always looking for ways
not that make my job easier, but make my job
more efficient because I have I'm watching I work seventies
a week during the football season, which is fine. I
get paid well. But it's like, I'm just going to
be watching Big ten SEC football. That's all I'm wanna watch.
Thank thank god the PAC twelve disbanded. Like I'm not
Big twelve acc or off the TV.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
I'm not gonna watch it.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
I'm in agreement because it's you know, people have always
pushed back. These conferences are overrated, these conferences. No, that's
where all the talent is. That's where all the NFL
people spend their time, and they do it for a reason.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
All right, before we go one, I'm gonna ask you.
I'm gonna give you mine and then think of yours.
Why I'm saying it. So sometimes you know, I'm in
the take business. Podcast business is a little less like
that because we have conversations that last an hour. But

(58:02):
I was thinking about it this weekend. I thought that
James Harden to the Clippers was a disaster, and I'm
watching that game today and I'm like, shit, that thing
is working. I don't remember the last time I had
an NBA take that was so bad. I thought Westbrook
Kawhi's weird, Paul George's excellent, Tylu can deal with dysfunction.

(58:26):
But I'm like, this is like an old rock band
where they all had issues and you're trying to work
them to get along with each other.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
Again.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
I'm like, this isn't good. It's gonna be terrible.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
And I watched them today and I'm like, they get
a good shot every time down the floor?

Speaker 3 (58:39):
What in the world.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
And Lawrence Frank was at a club I go to occasionally,
a private club in LA and he was sitting having
dinner one night and I sat up next to him,
like Lawrence Frank. We talked for an hour about it,
and I said, God, I thought it was gonna be
a mess. And he said, you know, Harden bought into it.
Harden just said, I'm wanna win. I got three hundred
million dollars in the bank. I want to win some games.
And so I'm watching today and I'm like, God, was
I wrong on that thing? Give me your sports take

(59:03):
when you look back and think and mine may be
Kirk Cousins, but with James Harden in the last year
or two, if you had a huge whiff.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
I thought that the Russell Wilson trade from Seattle would
go down as the worst trade in like one of
the history of the leagues for the Seattle Seahawks, because
there's no way you could trade a player of that
caliber what he meant for your franchise and how good
he would be for them. And it actually went the
polar opposite way. Like Deshaun Watson. It was clear, like
I don't know if I would be doing this. It

(59:36):
was that was weird. Aaron Rodgers was old and it
had gotten weird. But the Russell thing, right, he's thirty
two to thirty three years old, Like I get it
was weird, but he's going to go to Denver and
this was before Sean Payton and he didn't even last
two years. I mean he was benched before the second
year ended. And it is easily on Denver side. I mean,

(59:56):
I thought, in a weird way it kind of ended
Pete the It wasn't because of the trade. It was
just they kind of petered out and you saw But
it is you could argue from now, I would say
the Browns are in the mix, but it's got to
be in my lifetime when you factor in the dead money,
all the picks you gave up, the situation it created

(01:00:17):
for Sean Payton, I mean, one of the worst trades
any sport ever ever. And it's you know, the Aeron
thing when he got old. So all these you Deshaun
Watson a bunch of weird shit off the Russell thing,
and you've talked never seen because even James Harden I
went to a Warrior game in his heyday with the Rockets.
I remember in like game one, he scored thirty five.

(01:00:37):
Like he's he can have these moments. He's had a
lot of bad moments, but no one's ever disputed like
his talent and his ability. He just doesn't give a
shit on defense, and he kind of loafed sometimes when
he's not feeling it, but when he tries, like he
has a high end player. Russell just went from like
James Harden, high end player to just average to not
any good. It's crazy with no injury, With no injury

(01:01:00):
I've ever seen in athletics. I mean, it doesn't happen
in sports.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
No, I was the same way.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
I'm like, Pete, you've been fired two times before this
in the NFL. You were seven and nine, seven and
nine before Russ.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
And Pete was having some issues behind the scenes that
I've had validated. He and John Snyder were really at
the end where people don't know. You know, John Snyder
had Pete's son on the scouting staff and you know,
went to Pete and said, we're we're gonna move off him.
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
The next day, Pete puts him on his coaching staff.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
So yeah, that was kind of a facial But like Steve, like,
I'm sure Steve told you yesterday, that's happening all over
the league, the head coach and the GM's buttonheads about
stupid shit, you know, not even big picture stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Yeah, so Seattle had some of that stuff going on
behind the scenes. But yeah, in my lifetime, I thought,
I don't I've never seen a player in their early
thirties who I thought was elite. I mean, Jesus Russell's
passer ratings were over one hundred four years in a row.
Now you can say, well, the passer rating is a
little overvalued, but overall, if he just watched him.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
He was good, yeah, and then he was terrible awful.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Yeah, it's but it's one of the things.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
This weekend, to me is the best weekend of the year,
not counting the NFL season. Now, you you may throw
in the Masters because you love golf more than I do.
I like it, But I this weekend, I watched I
watched Draft the whole damn weekend. I watched you know,
I watched the Nick Sixers. Uh, you know, I watched
the Lakers now gets a little bit the second half,
but I had I had a ball.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Are the Sixers one of the greatest failed experiments in
the history of sports? I mean they tank forever and
they get and now they're I mean they're gonna lose
this series. He's not coming back.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Somebody said this on the internet, and I thought it
was really accurate. Embiid maybe seven to two. He plays
six ' four a lot threes, NonStop, nonsinse, He's screwing
around at the top with a ball. He gets beat
rebounding regularly late in games.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
Is that, Embiid?

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
You can't convince me you're a great player if in
the weak Eastern Conference you can't win the second playoff
series if you watch the Nick Sixers, there's no question
Brunson's the better star.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
That's not even dispute.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
Now, he takes a lot of shots, but there's no
question nobody on that team presents him like everybody's in
on Brunson. You kind of feel with a sixer sometimes
that if you could privately talk to the players, Maxi
and Harris, some of these guys, they'd roll their eyes
at him. He plays for his size small, Brunson for

(01:03:31):
his size, plays big. And I just come out of
this and I'm like, embiid, I know you hated Jokic
and you gave him the MVP, and that's always been
a story award more than the truth. Westbrook won an MVP,
But we have to file what embiid under. He's been
a media darling more than he's been great.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
And in another life, Tom Phibodeau is not coaching basketball.
He's an NFL coach. Probably started as no line guys.
That's the vibe I get from Tom Thibodeaux because the
Knicks when I was a kid, they played just like this, ugly.
They just it felt like at any moment a brawl
could break out. It's enjoyable and clearly their fans like it.
I saw Embiid was said after the game, like it

(01:04:11):
was half Knicks fans in there.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
Well they're only ninety minutes apart.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Yeah, it's far, it's easy, dry, and the Knicks fans
have been starved. I've said this before when I lived
on the East Coast, and I really did. I really
love the people in the East Coast. Now the winners
aren't great, but you know, as you get older, I'm
I can wear a coat like I can get older.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
Yeah, I love the people. I always said this. People
always said.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
New York was a baseball town, and I'm like Yankee
Stadium was empty in the eighties. The Knicks have been
a mess for most of the last twenty years. You
can't get a tickets to a Knicks game. There's two
baseball teams, right, There's two NFL team, there's one NBA team.
And when I was there, everybody I knew love the Knicks.
Half the town didn't like the Giants with their Super Bowls.

(01:04:54):
Half the town was a Mets fan. So it's New
York is. It's one of those things where you just
forget people did this with the Warriors. You forget what
a great basketball city.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
It is like when I grow up.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
In the seventies, Golden State won a.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Title with Rick Berry, Al Addams, Clifford, Ray Mullins, Jeff Mullins,
I think Jamal Wilkes, and they were really good for
a stretch. The seventies was weird. Everybody won like one title,
the Bullets with Elvin Hayes, the Sonics with DJ Gus,
William Jackson, everybody won one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
The Sixers with doctor Jakin, Washington wins title.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Yeah, Kevin Grevy, Elvin Hayes, West Unseld, Bobby Danders. I
think Bobby Danders was on that team. That was. That
was my indoctrination to sports. I was a huge NBA guy.
I collecked at NBA cards in the seventies and the Knicks,
by the way, won and I think seventy one or
seventy two, Lakers May one in seventy two, Nicks one
in seventy one, could be wrong. I'm in the ballpark,
Fraser Monroe, Willis Reid, that stuff. But one of the

(01:05:50):
things that you forget, and you forgot it about the Warriors.
It was always a great NBA city, always a great
NBA city, just had either bad ownership or bad team
for thirty years.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
New York.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
I think it's a basketball city. I think it's just
I think there are no shows all over that town.
When teams go sideways. The Knicks have been embarrassing, feudal.
Some would argue, you know, Dolan now feels like he
got he has Leon Wood, He's kind of got, He's
stepped back, he trusts, he trusts his ownership. So James
Dolan now is like he's like a normal owner. But

(01:06:25):
when I watch those Nick games, the league has all
these small teams, all these okcs and Indianas that are
fascinating right now. They need the Knicks, like the NBA
needs the Knicks.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Can I give you a guy that I don't think
they need? And I had the game on the other day.
I looked up and it was sad. Is the Kevin
Durant experience is just an all time these last four
or five, I mean, the gutlass performance. They got destroyed
and it feels he's kind of gone full mercenary and
just kind of goes from team to team and you're

(01:06:58):
just there's no emotion, like Ron's clearly not the same,
but you see him trying Korean. Those guys go out swinging.
You just watch Kevin Durant, You're like, what is this?
It's pretty sad for a guy at one point in
time looked like I remember going to games thinking it's
like one of the best players I've ever seen. And
it's not like he's forty two years old. I know

(01:07:18):
he's a little older now, but it's it's a tough watch.
I mean, I thought it was pretty embarrassing, no question.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
I was talking to somebody in my field recently and
they were talking about somebody who it's a media person
that is struggling, and I said, weird doesn't work. Eventually,
Weird doesn't work. People don't like to be around them.
They're unpredictable. You know, Aaron Rodgers has gotten a little weird.

(01:07:48):
Kevin Durant's gotten a little weird. Kawhi Leonard a little
odd now.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
You know when I say weird, I say this for Rogers.
He was winning MVPs a couple of years ago. At
least he produced later in his career.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Yeah, but Aaron's gotten old, single, rich, no kids, no pets.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
Yeah no, mate, It's.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Like seven houses all over the place flying around. Yeah, podcasters.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
It just doesn't you know, Kevin and Aaron Rodgers have
always been sort of again rich, no wife, no kids,
no pets, spend too much time rabbit ears on the internet,
and they're both gifted. But those people are hard to
build around because you don't like mystery is great for

(01:08:32):
books and movies, it's not great for sports teams. Like Brady,
you knew exactly what you got Kobe, actually, you know
Kobe from people that knew him, like he was just
a creature of having he ate the same thing every
night of the season, fresh salmon, like every night of
the season, small glass. I was like, it was just bizarre.
He was like this, and it's like, but you know

(01:08:54):
what you get with Kobe. You get some ego, you
get some shots. I think Kevin is kind of just
I think mercenary is the right language, the right word.
He's just he just wants to shoot, score and do
other things.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
And it's like it's hard to build around that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Yeah, to me, he kind of represents, you know, with Lebron,
I bet the Laker's probably losing five. Obviously, Curry's gone.
He just feels like those guys, if you just ask
someone casually about Lebron or Curry. You can have a
long conversation. I feel like Kevin duranfu like, yeah, they
don't even care. He just kind of lost everybody. It's like, yeah, whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Yeah, he's become, frankly, kind of an irrelevant NBA.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
He really has, he really has.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
He had the best owner arguably in the league, the
best coach, and the best teammate lakeb Kerr and Curry,
and he left for Kyrie Irving. And I said, the
NBA media supports more than reports. If Mahomes left for
the Jets, he said, well, I have a slot receiver.
I love him, I'm going to the Jets. He'd be like,

(01:09:57):
the fuck are you doing? He would get crushed doing
in the NBA. Kevin leaves the penthouse and goes to
a fixer upper and everybody is like, well, he's a
unique spirit.

Speaker 3 (01:10:08):
That's a bad business decision.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Yeah, it's and it hasn't worked out, not even close.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
If I left Fox and went to Vice or something
like that, that's a bad business. Don't do that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
So I think I think Kevin got a little bit
of a pass because you know, the NBA is, you know, creative,
and these are you know, like international soccer guys, there's
egos that are highly compensated there artists.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
It is a terrible decision. That's get over it. Deal
with Draymond, get therapy, get over it. I'm with you
all right, John as oas great chatting and we'll talk soon.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Well, have a good week. See it the volume.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
take a moment rate and review

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Colin Cowherd Podcast - Bears Win The Offseason, Cousins/Penix Situation Could Get Awkward, No New Weapons For Dak, Kevin Durant Is Irrelevant

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Colin Cowherd Podcast - Bears Win The Offseason, Cousins/Penix Situation Could Get Awkward, No New Weapons For Dak, Kevin Durant Is Irrelevant