February 5, 2025 • 8 mins
The hoo-ha over TJ Perenara's message before leading the All Blacks final haka last year has erupted again.
His speech in te reo before the test against Italy in Turin came after the march to parliament to protest the Treaty Principles bill.
The Herald reports many within the All Blacks felt blindsided regarding the politicisation of the issue, with a limited number made aware of the halfback's intentions hours before kick-off.
The coaches decided against switching the haka leader, and didn't want to remove Perenara from his 89th and final test.
Perenara and the governing body declined to comment.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncy Wildergrave
from News Talks'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The Sports Fix Now. Welcome to the podcast, Sir Wayne
Shelford aka Buck Shelford. Good a Buck, Welcome. I'm very
very well. I hope you are as well. Another big
story around the Harker has come out around TJ. Pettinara,
whether he was speaking for the team, whether he had permission,
(00:33):
should he have done it or not? I suppose the
first question here, should he have asked permission for what
he was what he said as representative of the entire
all Black side.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well I think that possibly, yes, he should have. But
at the same time, it was his last game in
the Jersey and he decided to get on with it
and do it and you know, say his peace and
then lo and behold. You know, next week he's in Japan,
you know. But you know, at the end of the day,
you know, it's one of the things we're always fighting for.
(01:09):
We're fighting for our real to be taught in all
the schools properly and all that stuff. And you know,
now we've got Huckers have been done in every team
in New Zealand basically now it's doing it and and
not all of them are on TV, but some of
them aren't. And I think that you know, way of
a PERIODJ. TJ. Dunn. You know, they probably would have
(01:32):
if he would have asked the players at the management.
They would have taken a couple of months to try
and work it all out. And the PJ probably thought, no,
just do it and get on with them and wait
for the consequences.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Blindsided the players not knowing the content of the miki
at the start, and you understand why they might be
if feathers may be.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Ruffle, Yeah, that could be right. Not our understanding what
it's all about because it's not there. Well, they're only
doing what they know in regards to the Hucker itself,
and the calling that goes on by the clouple is
basically he he actually says things that he not not
always wants to say, but he's got a message there
to to send out to other people anyway, you know,
(02:13):
before he goes into the Haker. Yea.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
So when it comes to leading the Haker, are you
represent everything about that hiker? Like when you stand up
the front, would there me he at the start? Do
you speak as an individual for the whole. Is that
genuinely how it's seen in Mary them?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Well, yes, and though you know you know Mary them
as you know as you can't. We're all different, EWI,
from different things. We've got different tea kungs and things
like that. Most of tea kanger is different around the
country from Ewe to Ewie. And yeah, certain things happen
(02:55):
and Ewe that we wouldn't do up where I'm from
and things like that. But it is what it is.
And you know, when you get up and like it,
you get up and you're talking about the last year
at White Tonguey and basically these guys up there just
just screaming at the top of their voices and talking
and basically ridiculing the government and things like that. It's
(03:19):
a it's a fight to fight, the fight, you know,
for Mardian to actually get better, better things going for
them all that stuff. And in regards to what the
treaty says, Yeah, and so thing is, I don't think
it's you know, to do it there in a testament.
I don't think it's the right place to do it.
If you want to actually talk about it, go and
(03:40):
talk with the politicians.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, was there any deception do you think from TJ
because they didn't know.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I don't whether there was a deception or not. Just
say if he didn't want to ask the team, he'd
done it for his reasons, which is probably nothing could
get through, would grew, everyone would disagree, or they would
actually be up and down. You know, fifty percent might
say yes and the other fifty say no. Management probably
say no. You know, things like that.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Please sorry, Buck. It's a little on the selfish side
if he's representing the all Blacks and a Harker and
he believes one thing speaking for everybody one hundred scent
behind what he's doing. But I think that's that's mean
to the other players who didn't know what he was
doing and was seen to buy into it.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, well they brought into it by doing it, but
they were there anyway. They didn't understand. Lot of them
play didn't understand what you're saying, But Marty them did
and they probably they would probably recognize what he was
talking about, you know. And for Marty them, you know,
that's that's that's their copop. And at the end of
the day, he just had lived on the day probably
(04:46):
more than anything else. And I saw it, but I
actually wasn't listening to all what he was saying. I
was just watching the hut to itself and then out
of the room. But notwithstanding that, at the end of
the day, you know, we have to start asking permission
to do things, you know, and I think that it
would have been the right way to go, but he
(05:08):
just didn't do it. A little bit like anyway, he's
actually standing up singing the national anthem to the whole
of the world in regards to opening up a big
Test match, and basically no one knew if she was
going to do it.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
In Marty first, it's an essence begging for forgiveness as
opposed to asking for permission.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, I suppose you know, you're right, but at the
end of the day, you know, not everybody likes the
hucker anyway, you know, and answering is so at the
end of the day, you know, the upset people doing it,
you know, they get more upsets you break the protocols
of what we're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Anyway, would you have done it but with something that
you would have done.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Oh not really, But at the end of the day,
I would have done something that that that was probably
you know, in my day it was a little bit different.
It was quite different back in our day. We actually,
you know, I didn't even speak that ill back in
those days. I don't speak a lot now, but you know,
do that Actually it was something special, you know, that
(06:10):
is something special New Zealand. And I think keeping it
to sound escaped to the point of doing the get
on with it and finish it off and do it
well is what we were after more than anything else.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
When you started and the Harker became as it is now,
it wasn't just a shabby dance, but no one knew
it was all about and it suddenly came with with
real meaning for the side. Did you feel, as the
captain though, that everybody had buying, everybody agreed and you
were that repers.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
There was no pushback at all, No everyone and something
is so back in the early days, probably before my time,
the buy in from the players was not there. They
didn't like doing it if they done it, or if
they were forced to do it. So at the end
of the day, you know, we needed to have buy
and from whole of the team and the management and
(07:06):
so you know, you go along there and what your
formers get better and better at it, and now they
got their own haker. You know, Mary Orbs got their
own hocker. That woman seems have got their own hackers
and it's grown exponentially. And so thing is now, this
is the the I'm going to following down the pj's
TJ's voice that we don't want our our couple of
(07:29):
hacker quite caught it alread he's saying different meanings are
different things at the start, and as you know in
a little call it all before the hacker starts.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well, he's opened the door for a Now has any
wayne shelf for joining the program? So what about future
use of the harker for political messages? Is that something
you'd buy into yourself?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
No, not really, it's not the place for it. If
you want you want to talk about political going with
political messages, go and talk to the politicians, nail them
after the after the game when you couldn't. There is
always always going to be up in the room where
you are at the end of the day, at the
Aftermax fund. So that's the place to do your messaging
is with the politicians. Thing because I want to be
by you, because you've just won a thissmatch.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Hey, always a pleasure mate, You enjoy yourself as always.
Next for joining us here on ZB Take
Speaker 1 (08:15):
You here For more from Sports Talk, Listen live to
News Talk z B from seven pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncy Wildergrave
from News Talks'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The Sports Fix Now. Welcome to the podcast, Sir Wayne
Shelford aka Buck Shelford. Good a Buck, Welcome. I'm very
very well. I hope you are as well. Another big
story around the Harker has come out around TJ. Pettinara,
whether he was speaking for the team, whether he had permission,
(00:33):
should he have done it or not? I suppose the
first question here, should he have asked permission for what
he was what he said as representative of the entire
all Black side.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well I think that possibly, yes, he should have. But
at the same time, it was his last game in
the Jersey and he decided to get on with it
and do it and you know, say his peace and
then lo and behold. You know, next week he's in Japan,
you know. But you know, at the end of the day,
you know, it's one of the things we're always fighting for.
(01:09):
We're fighting for our real to be taught in all
the schools properly and all that stuff. And you know,
now we've got Huckers have been done in every team
in New Zealand basically now it's doing it and and
not all of them are on TV, but some of
them aren't. And I think that you know, way of
a PERIODJ. TJ. Dunn. You know, they probably would have
(01:32):
if he would have asked the players at the management.
They would have taken a couple of months to try
and work it all out. And the PJ probably thought, no,
just do it and get on with them and wait
for the consequences.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Blindsided the players not knowing the content of the miki
at the start, and you understand why they might be
if feathers may be.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Ruffle, Yeah, that could be right. Not our understanding what
it's all about because it's not there. Well, they're only
doing what they know in regards to the Hucker itself,
and the calling that goes on by the clouple is
basically he he actually says things that he not not
always wants to say, but he's got a message there
to to send out to other people anyway, you know,
(02:13):
before he goes into the Haker. Yea.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
So when it comes to leading the Haker, are you
represent everything about that hiker? Like when you stand up
the front, would there me he at the start? Do
you speak as an individual for the whole. Is that
genuinely how it's seen in Mary them?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Well, yes, and though you know you know Mary them
as you know as you can't. We're all different, EWI,
from different things. We've got different tea kungs and things
like that. Most of tea kanger is different around the
country from Ewe to Ewie. And yeah, certain things happen
(02:55):
and Ewe that we wouldn't do up where I'm from
and things like that. But it is what it is.
And you know, when you get up and like it,
you get up and you're talking about the last year
at White Tonguey and basically these guys up there just
just screaming at the top of their voices and talking
and basically ridiculing the government and things like that. It's
(03:19):
a it's a fight to fight, the fight, you know,
for Mardian to actually get better, better things going for
them all that stuff. And in regards to what the
treaty says, Yeah, and so thing is, I don't think
it's you know, to do it there in a testament.
I don't think it's the right place to do it.
If you want to actually talk about it, go and
(03:40):
talk with the politicians.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, was there any deception do you think from TJ
because they didn't know.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I don't whether there was a deception or not. Just
say if he didn't want to ask the team, he'd
done it for his reasons, which is probably nothing could
get through, would grew, everyone would disagree, or they would
actually be up and down. You know, fifty percent might
say yes and the other fifty say no. Management probably
say no. You know, things like that.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Please sorry, Buck. It's a little on the selfish side
if he's representing the all Blacks and a Harker and
he believes one thing speaking for everybody one hundred scent
behind what he's doing. But I think that's that's mean
to the other players who didn't know what he was
doing and was seen to buy into it.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, well they brought into it by doing it, but
they were there anyway. They didn't understand. Lot of them
play didn't understand what you're saying, But Marty them did
and they probably they would probably recognize what he was
talking about, you know. And for Marty them, you know,
that's that's that's their copop. And at the end of
the day, he just had lived on the day probably
(04:46):
more than anything else. And I saw it, but I
actually wasn't listening to all what he was saying. I
was just watching the hut to itself and then out
of the room. But notwithstanding that, at the end of
the day, you know, we have to start asking permission
to do things, you know, and I think that it
would have been the right way to go, but he
(05:08):
just didn't do it. A little bit like anyway, he's
actually standing up singing the national anthem to the whole
of the world in regards to opening up a big
Test match, and basically no one knew if she was
going to do it.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
In Marty first, it's an essence begging for forgiveness as
opposed to asking for permission.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, I suppose you know, you're right, but at the
end of the day, you know, not everybody likes the
hucker anyway, you know, and answering is so at the
end of the day, you know, the upset people doing it,
you know, they get more upsets you break the protocols
of what we're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Anyway, would you have done it but with something that
you would have done.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Oh not really, But at the end of the day,
I would have done something that that that was probably
you know, in my day it was a little bit different.
It was quite different back in our day. We actually,
you know, I didn't even speak that ill back in
those days. I don't speak a lot now, but you know,
do that Actually it was something special, you know, that
(06:10):
is something special New Zealand. And I think keeping it
to sound escaped to the point of doing the get
on with it and finish it off and do it
well is what we were after more than anything else.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
When you started and the Harker became as it is now,
it wasn't just a shabby dance, but no one knew
it was all about and it suddenly came with with
real meaning for the side. Did you feel, as the
captain though, that everybody had buying, everybody agreed and you
were that repers.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
There was no pushback at all, No everyone and something
is so back in the early days, probably before my time,
the buy in from the players was not there. They
didn't like doing it if they done it, or if
they were forced to do it. So at the end
of the day, you know, we needed to have buy
and from whole of the team and the management and
(07:06):
so you know, you go along there and what your
formers get better and better at it, and now they
got their own haker. You know, Mary Orbs got their
own hocker. That woman seems have got their own hackers
and it's grown exponentially. And so thing is now, this
is the the I'm going to following down the pj's
TJ's voice that we don't want our our couple of
(07:29):
hacker quite caught it alread he's saying different meanings are
different things at the start, and as you know in
a little call it all before the hacker starts.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well, he's opened the door for a Now has any
wayne shelf for joining the program? So what about future
use of the harker for political messages? Is that something
you'd buy into yourself?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
No, not really, it's not the place for it. If
you want you want to talk about political going with
political messages, go and talk to the politicians, nail them
after the after the game when you couldn't. There is
always always going to be up in the room where
you are at the end of the day, at the
Aftermax fund. So that's the place to do your messaging
is with the politicians. Thing because I want to be
by you, because you've just won a thissmatch.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Hey, always a pleasure mate, You enjoy yourself as always.
Next for joining us here on ZB Take
Speaker 1 (08:15):
You here For more from Sports Talk, Listen live to
News Talk z B from seven pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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