January 18, 2025 • 35 mins
NCEA exam results have been released, and many students are less than pleased with how they did.
Every parent wants their child to be their best, but how can they push their children to improve without destroying their self confidence?
As parents deal with the fallout from exam results, many have had to return to work while school holidays drag on.
With only 20 days of annual leave, how can parents manage to find or afford childcare for the longest school break of the year?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
ed B, News.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Talk zed B. Thank you very much for joining me.
I'm Jason Walls in for Tim Beveridge on the Weekend
Collective here up in the beautiful Auckland offices. Such a
stunning day in Auckland. Such as stunning, stunning day, and
I hope wherever you are around the country you are
having such a beautiful time as well in terms of
your weather and your day as well. Thank you so
(00:32):
much for Ed who was in before. I was talking
about his charcoal barbecue and about some of the sausages
that he's got in, some steaks, some dry age steaks
that he's throwing on there. Made my mouth water while
I was talking with him. But now, fantastic discussion and
we're going to move on because it is now the
parent Squad part of the show and we're going to
be talking to Doogled Sutherland, who is a he's a
(00:55):
psychologist at the Umbrella Wellington at Umbrella Wellington, Doogle. Good evening,
good evening, good afternoon.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Good afternoon. Jason, you're getting a hit of yourself the
slightly Well, it's almost evening.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I'll tell you what. I talked to a talkback caller
a couple of days ago and I kept saying, you know, oh,
good afternoon, good afternoon, and it was that five past five.
He's like, no, no, no, it's good evening now, because
the evening technically starts at five pm.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I thought that too. I thought, yeah, I thought five
o'clock was evening. It does fit. It feels like it
feels good though, five o'clock to be the evening. I reckon.
It's like, yeah, now, we're just going to kick under
the evening now. I think it's good.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I reckon. We have to change it during the seasons though,
because during summer it still feels like the afternoon and
the evening's not feel about six. But in winter or
by four thirty, I'm like, it is the dead of night.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, by five o'clock it's pretty much good night when
you're in winter, isn't well.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Tell you what. I lived in the northeast of England
for a number of years and in summer it was
still it was still light outside at like ten ten
thirty pm. And then during the winter we were coming
home from school and it was the Christmas lights were
shining bright because it was just so dark amazing.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Look, Dunedin's still a bit like that. I'm originally from
Dunedin and it's still like you know, and I was
in Central Otago at summer and it's still light there
at nine o'clock nine thirty at night, you know, which
is it's great when it happens, but it does get
dark quicker in the winter there, don't it.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, you know, I've never been to Dunners.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Oh really, No.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Everybody keeps telling me that I need to go, and
I definitely do. I'll tell you it's down that the
New Zealand safety video that makes me keep wanting to go,
you know how He's like, oh, I'm the seafood done
here seafood fan. So that convinced me.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah. Nice. Oh yeah, gosh, you're missing how far what's
the further south you've been Queenstown?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Wait, there's Queenstown further south than christ Church.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Yeah, Queenstown is further south and christ the.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Queen then Queenstown.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah yeah, yeah, We've got You've got a whole whole
section of the country to the mainland really to go
and explore.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, maybe when I have some time off between shows
and what I do in my day job down in Wellington,
I can explore the country. Doogot, thank you so much
for joining us. By now everybody will be aware NCEE
exam results have been released and many out there will
be less than pleased with how they did.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Every parent wants their child to be their best, But
how can we push our children to improve without destroying
their self confidence? And as parents deal with the fallout
of these exam results, many have had to return to
work while the school holidays drag on with only twenty
days annually for most people, How can anyone manage to
(03:27):
find or afford health our childcare for the long longest
school break of the year. And how can you maintain
a sense of normality with such different routines. And that's
what we're going to be talking to doogled about this afternoon,
and we're this evening rather and we will be welcoming
your calls. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty if you
want to get involved in the conversation and direct some
(03:48):
questions to doogld because he's the expert. I'm just like
I was with Ed, just the loud mouth, talking head
with a piece of paper in front of me, but doogle.
I'm interested from your perspective, what should a parent's initial
response to be when the exam results come in.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Well, look, I'm speaking not only as a psychologist here
but as a parent as well. My daughter's just got
her she's just finished level three in CEA and so
she got her results. I can't remember what day it was.
Was it Thursday?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Iday week?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah? Yeah, And look, funny enough, she was, like many
kids around the country, she was a bit nervous. She
wasn't sure how she was going to go. She is
going up to Auckland the year to do midwiffery and
so she needed to get biology in CEA level three
and she she didn't think she did very well in
the exam, so she was a bit nervous about that
(04:45):
and had already in fact done things like she'd enrolled
in summer school at Takurda, the correspondent school, to try
and pick up credits should she need them. So and look,
many kids will be in that position and parents too,
and it is a nervous time. I think. Firstly, when
exam res are it's come through and they're still pretty
(05:06):
fresh for many people. Now, of course, your role really
as a parent at this point is just to be
supportive and to be and celebrate if they if they've
got their results and they've achieved them, and commiserate and
support them and be empathetic if they've not got the results.
(05:26):
You know, really pay attention to the emotions that your
kids are feeling right now. Now is not the time
to start, you know, lecturing them about oh, yes, well
I told you should have worked harder. I told you
should you know, didn't I say that you shouldn't have
been you know? Now is not that time. There will
be a time for that, but now is not that time.
So now I think really that the initial focus for
(05:48):
the next week or two, just well they digest these results,
is just to focus on their emotions and just to
be as I say, celebrated if they've achieved, and commiserate
and be empathic if they have not achieved what they'd hoped.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
How'd your door to do? Did she do her? In
the end?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
She did do all right, Yeah she did. She did.
She got what she needed to in biology, and she
did pretty well in another couple of subjects. But I'm
not sure how useful photography or design are going to
be from midwive. But she did, she did well in
those but she got what she needed in her bio
and she was she was she was stoked and and
(06:24):
and that's cool and and and lots of kids will
be in that position that they've got what they need. Look,
I think the other thing, and this might be an
important lesson for kids to learn too, is that look
exam results, whilst they mean a lot at the time
that they're in the grand scheme of life, it's a
bit of a wrinkle if you don't get what you
what you want or what you need. And I think
(06:47):
as adults and parents, that's one of the roles that
we can plays helping give some perspective that yeah, it
might feel like it's really really bad, but actually heaps
of people don't get the results they want and it
works out all right in the end for them. And
and you know, my son he finished school, oh gosh,
(07:08):
he's mid twenties now, so he finished school a few
years ago. He finished at the end of level two.
He didn't do level three. And but he's actually just
last year graduated from aut with a degree and he
went back and did it later. So you know, even
though it may seem like the end of the world,
there was always another path, and I think that's a
useful message for our kids to have.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Oh absolutely, I remember when I was in year I
was year twelve, at the end of year twelve, and
I was look, I was, we were done, and toyleroant
our actually actually and I was getting my results and
you know, you'd just log on and this is about
fifteen years ago now, and we logged onto this the
computer at the house that we were staying at and
I remember going through all my results and I was
(07:50):
really nervous. And the English ones were fine, the Maths
ones were fine. And then I got to physics, and
I had studied so hard for physics. I thought I
was going to be doing really well. I was really
excited and then I clicked on and I'd failed every
single paper. I couldn't believe it. And I do remember
having that guttural feeling that my life is over, like
(08:10):
I didn't want to do anything to do with physics.
I hated science. I was an English guy all going up,
despite the fact that dyslexic. But I remember my parents
were really good about it because I didn't I could
tell that they were probably like, what do we do here?
Because I was the oldest child, it was quite a
lot of failure for me. And they were really good
because they gave me my space. They didn't they definitely
(08:32):
didn't lecture me. They didn't say, well if you did
more of this. But I was a bit of a
brat about it as well, because I didn't even tell
them for quite some time. They were just like, how
to do good? Well, it was good, it was all right.
So what would be a vice to parents if you
have got a kid that just kind of withdrawers? Is
a year, It's okay, it's fine.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Look, I think I think your your tale, Jason as
a nice one, really just illustrates the importance of giving
young people some space. You know. Look, parents of teenagers
know that that we not always the first port of
call for kids to share their emotions with it. You know,
(09:12):
their friends are often much more important, and they might
have told their friends and they might not have told
you as a parent. But look, just giving your kids
some space to digest it. Try to avoid nagging or
asking questions after question. I know you'll be curious. You know,
I went to work on Thursday going, oh god, I
(09:34):
wonder what the result is the results are going to
be like, and I just had to sort of, you know,
quell that curiosity, just waiting for her to come to
me and let me know. And I think, you know,
if your teen is a bit sullen and a bit withdrawn,
you might make a few educated guesses about what's gone
on with the results. But just give them a little
(09:54):
bit of time and pick your moment. I think that
there might be a moment when everybody else is out
of the house and it's just you and them alone,
and that might be the moment to say, hey, look,
how did those results go on? You know, you've said
they're fine, but you know, give us, give us the
detail exactly how how did you go? But just choose
your moments as much as you can and let them
(10:15):
come to you.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
So what about if it's a situation where you have
one of your kids and you know that they should
have been studying more in their study time. They've been
mucking around, they've been on tech took, they've been doing
all sorts of stuff. They've been doing everything but study.
You've been on their back time and time again. Then
they do get their results coming through and as could
be expected, they're not very good. What's the balance there?
(10:38):
How how do you say I'm proud of you and
you need to work harder at the same time.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Look, I think you know. I think in parenting we
often talk about kind of the Goldilocks zone, and that's
and and that's again a good a good idea here,
and the Goldilock zone is kind of it's right in
the middle. There you're not being too strict on them
and too harsh and lecturing them, and and at the
(11:05):
not the other end of the spectrum, you're not being
lax and say, oh well, it doesn't really matter. So
the Goldilock zone for that situation. I think when when
teens haven't done too well is again firstly being there
to support their emotions. They will be bummed about it,
probably more than you are as a parent. So remember
(11:26):
it's their exam results, not yours, and they will be
bummed and they look, they will know probably give them
some credit. They will know that probably they haven't studied
as hard as they could. And I think rather than
lecturing them and saying well you should have studied and
blah blah lah, I think again, picking your moment when
(11:47):
when the moment's right, and the emotions perhaps died down
a bit and they're communicating with you. Just get them
to reflect on it, avoid avoid trying to tell them
what they should have done differently, and help them to
unpack what they think they could have done differently. And
I think that's a much better way of them actually
(12:09):
learning the lesson from what's happened, because this is one
of life's lessons really that they can learn from. So
asking them, look, what do you think you know? What
do you think led to this result? Is there anything
that you could have done differently? Do you think without?
They don't need you to tell them they should have
studied more, that's pretty evident from the results. But getting
(12:33):
them to reflect and figure out, support them to figure
out what they're going to do next. Don't make the
decisions for them, get them, but just help them be
there as guard rails I guess as they're trying to
make the decision about what to do next.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, some sailient advice there, just while if you're listening
at home, oh, eight hundred and eighty, if you've got
some stories about how your parents reacted to your exam results,
or how did you react to your kid's results, when
they were good, when there were bad, if they were
anywhere in between, we'd love to hear from them. And
if you have some questions for do Gold as well,
we'll be more than happy to put you on air
to talk with him. I was wondering if we could
(13:10):
do something a little bit outside the box here, because
I understand what you were saying in theory. In practice,
I'm struggling to comprehend it the little bit more So,
can we do a bit of role playing here? Can
I be a teen who has not studied and listen
to everybody that's always texting and you sound like you're
twelve years old? I'm not. I'm well above twelve. I
(13:30):
won't tell you how old, but I'm married and I
have a house, So there's your gate. So can I
be the teen who hasn't studied despite the fact that
my parents have told me time and time again. I
think this might be a good perspective for some parents
listening to try and figure out how to maintain this. Okay,
so we'll begin with you asking me how the results went,
(13:51):
and we can skip past the sort of Okay, I'll
just come right out and tell.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
You, Yeah, okay, co general Jesse, How did the how
did you're inca results go?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
They're all right? English? Was achieved? Got not achieved in
all the sciences though, and then not achieved in p
as well, but then yeah, achieved in geography though.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Okay, that's so achieved and not geography? And what was
the other one? You said? English?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yeah, yeah, okay, good good good? And and and how
are you how are you feeling about the not achieveds?
Speaker 2 (14:24):
All right?
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Were you? Were you surprised? Like? Did you is that
what you kind of expected you would get? Or were
you hoping for an achieved or what was the deal? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I was hoping for an achieved. I thought I did
all right for a merit but yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah what what what do you reckon
lead to that kind of the not achieved?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Ah? I suppose I could have studied a little bit harder.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Mm hmmm. How did that was? Was? Was it? How
did well? How did you? How did you go? How
did you get on so well with geography and English? Well?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I like those, you know, I feel like I'm good
at English geography. I know about erosion and stuff. It's
just those other ones. Yeah, I just didn't really get
it because they didn't get it, didn't study as much.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think too. During the year you
kind of said that that those are a little bit
harder for you and you're not quite enjoying them as
much as your other subjects. Is there anything that like,
you know, I mean, they're done now, can't we can't
change results, and you know, I'm a bit bummed about them,
but I'm sure you are too. What's your plan? What
(15:35):
are you thinking of for twenty twenty five? Are you
gonna Are you gonna or are you close enough that
you could get a few credits over summer school or
something like that, or are you going to have to
repeat those completely for the year.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
No, well I can repeat them next year, but or
I could do them in summer school. I was close
enough that it wasn't a complete rad off.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
So okay, okay, cool, Well watch what's what? What do
you what do you reckon? You want to do? What's
what's a good plan? I mean, I'm you know, I can.
We're going to support you whatever, right you're You're You're
our sun. It sounds weird, doogle.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
That was phenomenal. You did a great job. I felt like,
I feel very mentored by you right now and how
you've brought it back that was fantastic. And we're getting
a couple of texts coming through about how well we
did that, So you know the oxen, but I do
I like how you You weren't too probing, you know,
and you let even though I was a bratty, little
emotional team, you let me lead the conversation. And at
(16:30):
one point I was even you know, you said, well
what made you think? Why do you think that you
got to that point? And I found myself saying, oh, well,
I guess I didn't study very much, and instead of
chastising me, you said, oh, well, what's the next option?
So would that be? Your advice to parents is just
letting the kids and the teens lead the conversation and
you just sort of chiming and where you.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Can absolutely I think you know, parents of teens, especially
parents of male teens, you know we've all had that,
and you know you and I were both male teens
as well, so we know what it's like firsthand to
just be that grumpy all was fun? Right? Just you know,
I think less is often more just creating that space
(17:11):
for them to come to you. But the other thing
that probably added to you and I doing such a
great performance that no doubt we're going to get nominated
award when yeah, is that there's not the emotional connection.
And I think you know you're just just so listeners
are clear, there's no biological relationship between your eye and
(17:32):
so you're not really my son. So so, but but
you know, when it is your kith and kin, when
it's your kids, there is And I know this myself.
I find it it's much easier for me to give
advice to somebody that sometimes when it is to deal
with my own kids, because for me, there's that emotion
and and and I don't have that when I'm speaking
(17:53):
to somebody that's not my own kid, because I don't
have that personal connection. So often, as parents, when you're
having these difficult conversations, one of the things is how
to manage your own emotions. Like if I'm feeling really
annoyed and brassed off at you, because actually you were
you should have studied much more, and you and I
both know that, and it really ticks me off that
(18:14):
you haven't. And now look what you've done, and now
what's going to happen this year. But that's that emotion.
Expressing that emotion to you to your kid when you're
having this discussion is not going to be useful for
that conversation. They will know you're disappointed with them. They
will know that you're that you feel, you know, down
(18:35):
about it, just like they do. So for parents, it's
often about managing your emotions so that those don't seep
in and color the conversation in a different way. You know, yes,
there will be a time as a parent that you
need to let off your own steam about God, bluddy Jason.
I told him to get on with his study and
he didn't do it, and now look at him. But
(18:57):
that's a conversation with another adult. You know, if you've
got a partner, have a conversation with them, or if
you don't have a partner, have a commonversation with a
friend or a family member. But that's not the conversation
to have with the young person because all they're here
as your anger or your frustration. They won't hear anything else.
So emotion management, I think is a real key for
(19:18):
anything in parenting.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Really, yeah, we'll be back after this. Thank you very
much for your thoughts. So far Google News Talk z B.
It's just about five point thirty News Talk z BE
with Jason Walls filling in for Tim Beverage on the
(19:41):
Weekend Collective. Before we get back to Googled, a couple
of texts about our award winning performance. Then ha ha ha,
you play that role perfectly, as in me and as
a teen. Somebody else says, this is a real tough listen, haha,
Jason makes a great teen spot on Thank You very Much.
Two out of three is not bad, isn't it? Doogled?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, look that's sixty six. Let's a pass an eNCA.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
That's right, That's exactly right. Hey, I'm interested in something
you were saying before the break. You were talking about
you know, you don't want to vent to your kids,
to your teens about their performance, but go talk to
a friend or a partner or something or somebody like that.
What's the etiquette around that?
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (20:19):
What's the does and the don'ts? I mean, because listen,
I love I was a perfect kid growing up. I
can already see my parents let texting in right, never
did anything wrong, never three any house parties when they
were out of town or anything like that. I'm sure
they vented about me. I'm sure they at some point
like this little this little crap, what's he doing? This
little knucklehead? How do you do that as a parent
(20:40):
in this I'm just interested in the kosher way of
doing that.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Oh look, I think firstly, it's where you do it,
and you really want to do it out of earshot
of of of of your team. So it might be
at work, or it might be you know, you know,
or they might be out because it's first it's not
the sort of conversation you you want them to overhear either,
(21:08):
but it is look at it as parents, we're humans too,
just like your team is. Weirdly enough, although they don't
act like it sometimes, but it's about it's just like anything.
It's it's as a parent. This is an event in
your life just as much as in its event in
their life that has made you feel a particular way,
and we know that it's really useful to manage your emotions,
(21:32):
or one useful way to manage your emotions is actually
talking it through with somebody else. So it's it's and
it's being honest, it's saying, look, it really brassed me off.
Jason was just I knew that he wasn't going to
do it, and I feel so bloody frustrated about it.
And look, that's perfectly fine. That is how as a
(21:53):
parent that you might experience it. But the difference is
having a place where you can vent that feeling, where
you can express that feeling that is not with your tea.
And often I think as parents, you know, we get
drawn into it's like a magnet, or you know that
you get drawn into expressing that emotion in front or
(22:13):
towards your children and your rent and your rave, and
you tattle them off, and that it really doesn't do
anybody an awful lot of good. You generally feel terrible
after you've done it. It damages the relationship with your team,
and they feel terrible too because now you're yelling and
swearing and raving at them, and it doesn't really achieve anything.
(22:35):
And look, my experience with you know, and I've worked
with parents for over twenty years now, and often it's
that the key thing is how do people manage their
emotion in any state, whether they're angry or whether they're
worried themselves. It's putting up a protective layer between your
(22:56):
emotion and your child or young person, because you know,
kids don't know how to deal with their with their parents'
emotion and they shouldn't have to because that's not the
relationship you have. So you're having a good you know,
and there's nothing wrong with having a bit of a
(23:16):
bitch and a moan with your good friends or your
family about how you feel about your kids. That's fine
because it's a reality for you.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
But so that happens quite often, does it? I just
I don't have kids. Hopefully someday we'll have a couple
of spraguelets running around. But is it quite normal for
parents to get together and just kind of gossip about
their kids, not in the malicious way, but just as
a weed event.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Look, I think I think it is, you know, and
you certainly find that there's a sense of when you
do it as a parent. I think that there's a
sense of relief that actually because because nine times out
of ten other parents are feeling just like you, and
you get some validation, you know, people say, oh, yeah,
I had that with mine too. God they never study
these days, do they? And you go, oh, I thought
(24:00):
it was just me? And actually that helps sort of
teamer down a little bit your your your emotion because
you are just you're getting some validation from somebody. Are
sure hearing that you're not the only one who also
feels brassed off? But I think you know, parents often
do that. You know, kids don't know and and and
(24:23):
it's a bit like center that kids never really know
that it's the parents, but parents. Weirdly enough, parents have
emotions too, and they need to be they need to
be able to express and manage those but just in
an adult appropriate way. But certainly that certainly in my circles,
you know, lots of time parents will We've just been
away with some friends of ours in christ Church. They've
(24:44):
got kids very similar ages to ours, and we shared
some frustrations and some anxieties and some you know, some
celebrations that we could with our friends, adult to adult.
And I think it's really important.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
And you make a really good point about you know,
you don't want to feel like you're alone in this everybody.
It's likely, you know, teens are not that complicated. There've
been the same since the dawn of time. It's likely
that other people are going to have the same struggles
that you have, So having that camaraderie and being able
to and I have a couple of shard knees with
the girls. While you talk about the NCAA results and
the dues and the don'ts, it's probably very.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Healthy, yeahslutely and look at a stretched thinking back about
you know, my kids are now eighteen and twenty three,
twenty four and thinking back about that their whole journey
through through life so far. Definitely, it's not just teenagers.
You know, there's the temper tantrums as a two and
a three year old, and getting together with other parents
(25:40):
who are well even when they even when the new
you know, young young babies and they're not sleeping and goh,
there's nothing worse for a parent than you know, nights
after night after not sleeping and dealing with a grumpy
And actually it's really important for parents to get that
sport from one another and not to feel alone, because
I think that's certainly with parents I've worked with over time,
(26:02):
that's one of the things they talk about, is is
actually having that sense that oh, I'm not alone, I'm
not in this by myself. This is actually okay, it's normal.
And the message underlying that is we can get through
it because as you say, people have been doing this
since the dawn of time, although there is some interesting
literature around as teenage are the teenage years just sort
(26:24):
of a creation of the last sort of two centuries
but putting out well, I think the theory is is
that actually, you know, people were thrust into adulthood much sooner,
much earlier than than they are in modern times. You know,
once you were thirteen or fourteen, often you're off into
(26:44):
the workforce, and perhaps sooner than that, particularly for people
from working you know, and you know, who were the
working class. They didn't have necessary the luxury of having
some elongated period of adolescence that it was okay, you've
finished schooling at twelve and often to the workforce. And
(27:04):
there is some theories out there that teenagehood has really
only become into its own in the last hundred years
or so, as we've had much more of a middle
class and much more of a time when we are
you know, when we don't have to go out to
work when we're twelve or thirteen, and we can stay
at home for a but longer. But yeah, but that's
(27:26):
our theory. It's it's not it's not necessarily everybody agrees
on that.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, interesting stuff, Doogled, Thank you so much. We'll be
back with more with doogled Sutherland after the break. You're
with News Talk as z B for the weekend Collective
News Talks ed B. Jason Walls with you here on
the Parenting Squad talking to doogled Sutherland, who is with
the Umbrella Well Being Group. Doogle, I'm interested about the
school holidays a parent. How do parents manage the school
(27:54):
holidays these days? I mean, most people have twenty days
annual leave a year. There are a lot of holidays
throughout the year, and then you've got this big stretch
at the end of the year. Does how do you
think that works for a lot of parents.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
It's a real toughie, I think especially you know, we've
been talking about teens, and of course, once your kids
get to teenagers, they can you know, they can be
home by themselves and that's cool, but you know, younger
than that, you know, for the first thirteen fourteen years
of their life, it is really hard. It's as you say,
(28:26):
we get twenty days of annual leave a year. Some
people might get a few more, but on average that's
what we get, and kids are off school for an
awful lot longer than that. And interesting that the little
blurb you know, just that just before we came on
here was about the community that you know, the parenting
squad is the community that's helped raising your child. Well,
(28:48):
I think this is a real time, you know, one
of those situations where you do need a community around
you you and people might there's lots of things, you know,
when our kids were growing up, we would often have
grandparents come up for a week or two to look
after the kids, or as they got older, we some
occasionally popped them on a plane and they went down
(29:08):
to the need and to stay with the grandparents, or
you know, you remembering that most parents are probably in
the same position as you. So are there people around
you in your neighborhood and your friend circles and your communities,
whatever communities you're in, who you can club together with
and say, hey, look, you know, if you do two days,
we'll do two days, and you know, we'll have your
(29:30):
kids and you have ours, and then we can we
can eke it out. But it's it is, it's the
mass is simply doesn't add up right, that you know,
kids are off school. I don't know what, they're off
school for eight twelve weeks a year and we've got
half of that if you're lucky, and then you'll leave.
So but I think it really the key really is
coming together in communities where you can help and support
(29:51):
one another.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
What if you don't have that sort of situation.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
That's tough a And of course there are people out
there who are like that. We were a little bit
like that. I think when we had our son, our
first child, we moved to Wellington and we really had
very few, very few friends and family around us. We
moved from my wife's job and it was okay. Look,
(30:16):
I think if you can afford it, there'll always be
you know, there'll always be holiday programs, and they're often
although kids can gown and grown a bit having to
get up and go to them, they're often pretty enjoyable.
So that might be a good thing. Look, it could
be that it's an opportunity for you to meet people
in your neighborhood. There will often be high school students
(30:37):
who are looking for some extra money over that time
and who are happy to do it at a much
cheaper rate than a school holiday program. You might have
to talk really nicely to your boss and say, hey, look,
is there any way that I could be working from
home a little bit? Yeah, just so that I'm around
to supervise my kids. I don't want to give working
from home a bad name or the sense that, you know,
(30:58):
when people are working from home they're not really doing it.
But for some people that's a reality, is that I
don't have friends and family around, and they might just
need to be at home just and they'll have to
set kids up. There is a lot of setting up. Okay,
Monday it's this, and Tuesday it's that, So there might
be a bit of setting up and you being around
a little bit more to supervise them.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
And how do you deal with that sort of routine?
Have you got any good tips around that one?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
You mean the routine of when they are just this
period when parents are back at work and kids still
on holiday. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, because you were talking about how on Monday you
do this on Tuesday night?
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yeah, yeah. Look, Look, I think that the times when
the situation that I have experienced it have worked the best,
both personally and with you know, with other parents. I've
known when you've sat down and actually done a little
bit of planning out you've mapped out a week, you know, Okay,
Monday morning, this is what's going to happen. Monday afternoon,
(31:54):
this will happen. You know, the same for Tuesday, Wednesday,
et cetera. It does take a little bit of planning,
and the better planned you are, I think, the better
prepared you are. And it tends to involve your kids
in that as much as you can. You know, what
are some of the things that you would like to do.
And of course they're going to say that they want
to go to the movies every day, and they want
to watch video. You know, they want to be on
(32:15):
the PlayStation for twenty four hours and that's not going
to happen every day. But you know, remember it's their
holidays too, so be a bit more lenient. If they
want to have a bit more screen time than usual,
you know, maybe that's okay. If they want to go
to the pool every day, then maybe that's okay as well.
But just you know, remembering that it is the holiday
(32:36):
as well. It's their time to enjoy it. But the
more planning and preparation and advance you can do, I
think the more likely you are for it to go.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Well, yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it. I remember
going to holiday programs when I was a kid and
being very sort of grumpy about having to go because,
as you said, I wanted to stay home and play
Police Station the whole time. But then you get there
and you actually find that you enjoy it quite a lot.
Is there a way that you know without telling your
kids I told you so, but telling them I told
you so that one.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Oh. Look, going back to earlier conversation, I think, particularly
once kids get over the age of sort of nine
or ten or so, you can probably have that again.
It's resisting the urge to tell them that that you
told them so, and getting them to reflect on it
(33:24):
and just gently reminding them. And this is a sort
of a delicate thing to do, but gently reminding them
that actually because of how they felt before they went,
because often kids will be very much in the here
and now and they've loved it and it was great. No,
I want to go back and just gently remind them,
you know, in a positive way. Ah, great, that's cool,
(33:46):
because I actually when we talked about it last week,
you weren't so into it, and just exploring with them
what it was that made it good. You know, you know,
so what changed your mind, what was good that made
it or what did you enjoy that made it actually
quite good for you rather than than what you thought
or feared it was going to be. And then so
(34:09):
letting them reflect and come up with the answers, because
that's actually kind of going to be valuable information for
you in the future, going, oh, actually that this worked,
this holiday programer would ever work for them because I
don't know, they went to the pool, or they did
went to the zoo or something, and that was written.
So let's try and do that again next summer holidays.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So you retain a bit of that information and say,
remember going to the zoo last time. I'm sure they'll
be doing that again.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Yeah, that's right, And it may take a little bit
of you reminding them because and and also as parents
sometimes you just have to you know, kids just have
to do what they have to do, because that's the
stark reality. And so not getting too drawn into the
fact that I don't really want to do it. This
(34:57):
is terrible, it's the worst day of my life. And
again just sort of having to push through that because
as parents, you know that they'll probably enjoy it when
they get.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, absolutely right, doogle. Thank you so much for the chat.
I've learned quite a lot. I particularly liked our roleplay,
and I hope if you've been listening along you've learned
a lot as well. So thank you very much and
you enjoy the rest of your day.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Thanks Jason, great to chat with you, and yeah, enjoy
the rest of your evening now that we're officially an
evening time.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Thank you so much. Oh, News Talk is zed B.
You're with Jason Walls for the Weekend Collective. It's just
about ten to six.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk zed B weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
ed B, News.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Talk zed B. Thank you very much for joining me.
I'm Jason Walls in for Tim Beveridge on the Weekend
Collective here up in the beautiful Auckland offices. Such a
stunning day in Auckland. Such as stunning, stunning day, and
I hope wherever you are around the country you are
having such a beautiful time as well in terms of
your weather and your day as well. Thank you so
(00:32):
much for Ed who was in before. I was talking
about his charcoal barbecue and about some of the sausages
that he's got in, some steaks, some dry age steaks
that he's throwing on there. Made my mouth water while
I was talking with him. But now, fantastic discussion and
we're going to move on because it is now the
parent Squad part of the show and we're going to
be talking to Doogled Sutherland, who is a he's a
(00:55):
psychologist at the Umbrella Wellington at Umbrella Wellington, Doogle. Good evening,
good evening, good afternoon.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Good afternoon. Jason, you're getting a hit of yourself the
slightly Well, it's almost evening.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I'll tell you what. I talked to a talkback caller
a couple of days ago and I kept saying, you know, oh,
good afternoon, good afternoon, and it was that five past five.
He's like, no, no, no, it's good evening now, because
the evening technically starts at five pm.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I thought that too. I thought, yeah, I thought five
o'clock was evening. It does fit. It feels like it
feels good though, five o'clock to be the evening. I reckon.
It's like, yeah, now, we're just going to kick under
the evening now. I think it's good.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I reckon. We have to change it during the seasons though,
because during summer it still feels like the afternoon and
the evening's not feel about six. But in winter or
by four thirty, I'm like, it is the dead of night.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, by five o'clock it's pretty much good night when
you're in winter, isn't well.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Tell you what. I lived in the northeast of England
for a number of years and in summer it was
still it was still light outside at like ten ten
thirty pm. And then during the winter we were coming
home from school and it was the Christmas lights were
shining bright because it was just so dark amazing.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Look, Dunedin's still a bit like that. I'm originally from
Dunedin and it's still like you know, and I was
in Central Otago at summer and it's still light there
at nine o'clock nine thirty at night, you know, which
is it's great when it happens, but it does get
dark quicker in the winter there, don't it.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, you know, I've never been to Dunners.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Oh really, No.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Everybody keeps telling me that I need to go, and
I definitely do. I'll tell you it's down that the
New Zealand safety video that makes me keep wanting to go,
you know how He's like, oh, I'm the seafood done
here seafood fan. So that convinced me.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah. Nice. Oh yeah, gosh, you're missing how far what's
the further south you've been Queenstown?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Wait, there's Queenstown further south than christ Church.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Yeah, Queenstown is further south and christ the.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Queen then Queenstown.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah yeah, yeah, We've got You've got a whole whole
section of the country to the mainland really to go
and explore.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, maybe when I have some time off between shows
and what I do in my day job down in Wellington,
I can explore the country. Doogot, thank you so much
for joining us. By now everybody will be aware NCEE
exam results have been released and many out there will
be less than pleased with how they did.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Every parent wants their child to be their best, But
how can we push our children to improve without destroying
their self confidence? And as parents deal with the fallout
of these exam results, many have had to return to
work while the school holidays drag on with only twenty
days annually for most people, How can anyone manage to
(03:27):
find or afford health our childcare for the long longest
school break of the year. And how can you maintain
a sense of normality with such different routines. And that's
what we're going to be talking to doogled about this afternoon,
and we're this evening rather and we will be welcoming
your calls. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty if you
want to get involved in the conversation and direct some
(03:48):
questions to doogld because he's the expert. I'm just like
I was with Ed, just the loud mouth, talking head
with a piece of paper in front of me, but doogle.
I'm interested from your perspective, what should a parent's initial
response to be when the exam results come in.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Well, look, I'm speaking not only as a psychologist here
but as a parent as well. My daughter's just got
her she's just finished level three in CEA and so
she got her results. I can't remember what day it was.
Was it Thursday?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Iday week?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah? Yeah, And look, funny enough, she was, like many
kids around the country, she was a bit nervous. She
wasn't sure how she was going to go. She is
going up to Auckland the year to do midwiffery and
so she needed to get biology in CEA level three
and she she didn't think she did very well in
the exam, so she was a bit nervous about that
(04:45):
and had already in fact done things like she'd enrolled
in summer school at Takurda, the correspondent school, to try
and pick up credits should she need them. So and look,
many kids will be in that position and parents too,
and it is a nervous time. I think. Firstly, when
exam res are it's come through and they're still pretty
(05:06):
fresh for many people. Now, of course, your role really
as a parent at this point is just to be
supportive and to be and celebrate if they if they've
got their results and they've achieved them, and commiserate and
support them and be empathetic if they've not got the results.
(05:26):
You know, really pay attention to the emotions that your
kids are feeling right now. Now is not the time
to start, you know, lecturing them about oh, yes, well
I told you should have worked harder. I told you
should you know, didn't I say that you shouldn't have
been you know? Now is not that time. There will
be a time for that, but now is not that time.
So now I think really that the initial focus for
(05:48):
the next week or two, just well they digest these results,
is just to focus on their emotions and just to
be as I say, celebrated if they've achieved, and commiserate
and be empathic if they have not achieved what they'd hoped.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
How'd your door to do? Did she do her? In
the end?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
She did do all right, Yeah she did. She did.
She got what she needed to in biology, and she
did pretty well in another couple of subjects. But I'm
not sure how useful photography or design are going to
be from midwive. But she did, she did well in
those but she got what she needed in her bio
and she was she was she was stoked and and
(06:24):
and that's cool and and and lots of kids will
be in that position that they've got what they need. Look,
I think the other thing, and this might be an
important lesson for kids to learn too, is that look
exam results, whilst they mean a lot at the time
that they're in the grand scheme of life, it's a
bit of a wrinkle if you don't get what you
what you want or what you need. And I think
(06:47):
as adults and parents, that's one of the roles that
we can plays helping give some perspective that yeah, it
might feel like it's really really bad, but actually heaps
of people don't get the results they want and it
works out all right in the end for them. And
and you know, my son he finished school, oh gosh,
(07:08):
he's mid twenties now, so he finished school a few
years ago. He finished at the end of level two.
He didn't do level three. And but he's actually just
last year graduated from aut with a degree and he
went back and did it later. So you know, even
though it may seem like the end of the world,
there was always another path, and I think that's a
useful message for our kids to have.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Oh absolutely, I remember when I was in year I
was year twelve, at the end of year twelve, and
I was look, I was, we were done, and toyleroant
our actually actually and I was getting my results and
you know, you'd just log on and this is about
fifteen years ago now, and we logged onto this the
computer at the house that we were staying at and
I remember going through all my results and I was
(07:50):
really nervous. And the English ones were fine, the Maths
ones were fine. And then I got to physics, and
I had studied so hard for physics. I thought I
was going to be doing really well. I was really
excited and then I clicked on and I'd failed every
single paper. I couldn't believe it. And I do remember
having that guttural feeling that my life is over, like
(08:10):
I didn't want to do anything to do with physics.
I hated science. I was an English guy all going up,
despite the fact that dyslexic. But I remember my parents
were really good about it because I didn't I could
tell that they were probably like, what do we do here?
Because I was the oldest child, it was quite a
lot of failure for me. And they were really good
because they gave me my space. They didn't they definitely
(08:32):
didn't lecture me. They didn't say, well if you did
more of this. But I was a bit of a
brat about it as well, because I didn't even tell
them for quite some time. They were just like, how
to do good? Well, it was good, it was all right.
So what would be a vice to parents if you
have got a kid that just kind of withdrawers? Is
a year, It's okay, it's fine.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Look, I think I think your your tale, Jason as
a nice one, really just illustrates the importance of giving
young people some space. You know. Look, parents of teenagers
know that that we not always the first port of
call for kids to share their emotions with it. You know,
(09:12):
their friends are often much more important, and they might
have told their friends and they might not have told
you as a parent. But look, just giving your kids
some space to digest it. Try to avoid nagging or
asking questions after question. I know you'll be curious. You know,
I went to work on Thursday going, oh god, I
(09:34):
wonder what the result is the results are going to
be like, and I just had to sort of, you know,
quell that curiosity, just waiting for her to come to
me and let me know. And I think, you know,
if your teen is a bit sullen and a bit withdrawn,
you might make a few educated guesses about what's gone
on with the results. But just give them a little
(09:54):
bit of time and pick your moment. I think that
there might be a moment when everybody else is out
of the house and it's just you and them alone,
and that might be the moment to say, hey, look,
how did those results go on? You know, you've said
they're fine, but you know, give us, give us the
detail exactly how how did you go? But just choose
your moments as much as you can and let them
(10:15):
come to you.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
So what about if it's a situation where you have
one of your kids and you know that they should
have been studying more in their study time. They've been
mucking around, they've been on tech took, they've been doing
all sorts of stuff. They've been doing everything but study.
You've been on their back time and time again. Then
they do get their results coming through and as could
be expected, they're not very good. What's the balance there?
(10:38):
How how do you say I'm proud of you and
you need to work harder at the same time.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Look, I think you know. I think in parenting we
often talk about kind of the Goldilocks zone, and that's
and and that's again a good a good idea here,
and the Goldilock zone is kind of it's right in
the middle. There you're not being too strict on them
and too harsh and lecturing them, and and at the
(11:05):
not the other end of the spectrum, you're not being
lax and say, oh well, it doesn't really matter. So
the Goldilock zone for that situation. I think when when
teens haven't done too well is again firstly being there
to support their emotions. They will be bummed about it,
probably more than you are as a parent. So remember
(11:26):
it's their exam results, not yours, and they will be
bummed and they look, they will know probably give them
some credit. They will know that probably they haven't studied
as hard as they could. And I think rather than
lecturing them and saying well you should have studied and
blah blah lah, I think again, picking your moment when
(11:47):
when the moment's right, and the emotions perhaps died down
a bit and they're communicating with you. Just get them
to reflect on it, avoid avoid trying to tell them
what they should have done differently, and help them to
unpack what they think they could have done differently. And
I think that's a much better way of them actually
(12:09):
learning the lesson from what's happened, because this is one
of life's lessons really that they can learn from. So
asking them, look, what do you think you know? What
do you think led to this result? Is there anything
that you could have done differently? Do you think without?
They don't need you to tell them they should have
studied more, that's pretty evident from the results. But getting
(12:33):
them to reflect and figure out, support them to figure
out what they're going to do next. Don't make the
decisions for them, get them, but just help them be
there as guard rails I guess as they're trying to
make the decision about what to do next.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, some sailient advice there, just while if you're listening
at home, oh, eight hundred and eighty, if you've got
some stories about how your parents reacted to your exam results,
or how did you react to your kid's results, when
they were good, when there were bad, if they were
anywhere in between, we'd love to hear from them. And
if you have some questions for do Gold as well,
we'll be more than happy to put you on air
to talk with him. I was wondering if we could
(13:10):
do something a little bit outside the box here, because
I understand what you were saying in theory. In practice,
I'm struggling to comprehend it the little bit more So,
can we do a bit of role playing here? Can
I be a teen who has not studied and listen
to everybody that's always texting and you sound like you're
twelve years old? I'm not. I'm well above twelve. I
(13:30):
won't tell you how old, but I'm married and I
have a house, So there's your gate. So can I
be the teen who hasn't studied despite the fact that
my parents have told me time and time again. I
think this might be a good perspective for some parents
listening to try and figure out how to maintain this. Okay,
so we'll begin with you asking me how the results went,
(13:51):
and we can skip past the sort of Okay, I'll
just come right out and tell.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
You, Yeah, okay, co general Jesse, How did the how
did you're inca results go?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
They're all right? English? Was achieved? Got not achieved in
all the sciences though, and then not achieved in p
as well, but then yeah, achieved in geography though.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Okay, that's so achieved and not geography? And what was
the other one? You said? English?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yeah, yeah, okay, good good good? And and and how
are you how are you feeling about the not achieveds?
Speaker 2 (14:24):
All right?
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Were you? Were you surprised? Like? Did you is that
what you kind of expected you would get? Or were
you hoping for an achieved or what was the deal? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I was hoping for an achieved. I thought I did
all right for a merit but yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah what what what do you reckon
lead to that kind of the not achieved?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Ah? I suppose I could have studied a little bit harder.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Mm hmmm. How did that was? Was? Was it? How
did well? How did you? How did you go? How
did you get on so well with geography and English? Well?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I like those, you know, I feel like I'm good
at English geography. I know about erosion and stuff. It's
just those other ones. Yeah, I just didn't really get
it because they didn't get it, didn't study as much.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think too. During the year you
kind of said that that those are a little bit
harder for you and you're not quite enjoying them as
much as your other subjects. Is there anything that like,
you know, I mean, they're done now, can't we can't
change results, and you know, I'm a bit bummed about them,
but I'm sure you are too. What's your plan? What
(15:35):
are you thinking of for twenty twenty five? Are you
gonna Are you gonna or are you close enough that
you could get a few credits over summer school or
something like that, or are you going to have to
repeat those completely for the year.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
No, well I can repeat them next year, but or
I could do them in summer school. I was close
enough that it wasn't a complete rad off.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
So okay, okay, cool, Well watch what's what? What do
you what do you reckon? You want to do? What's
what's a good plan? I mean, I'm you know, I can.
We're going to support you whatever, right you're You're You're
our sun. It sounds weird, doogle.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
That was phenomenal. You did a great job. I felt like,
I feel very mentored by you right now and how
you've brought it back that was fantastic. And we're getting
a couple of texts coming through about how well we
did that, So you know the oxen, but I do
I like how you You weren't too probing, you know,
and you let even though I was a bratty, little
emotional team, you let me lead the conversation. And at
(16:30):
one point I was even you know, you said, well
what made you think? Why do you think that you
got to that point? And I found myself saying, oh, well,
I guess I didn't study very much, and instead of
chastising me, you said, oh, well, what's the next option?
So would that be? Your advice to parents is just
letting the kids and the teens lead the conversation and
you just sort of chiming and where you.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Can absolutely I think you know, parents of teens, especially
parents of male teens, you know we've all had that,
and you know you and I were both male teens
as well, so we know what it's like firsthand to
just be that grumpy all was fun? Right? Just you know,
I think less is often more just creating that space
(17:11):
for them to come to you. But the other thing
that probably added to you and I doing such a
great performance that no doubt we're going to get nominated
award when yeah, is that there's not the emotional connection.
And I think you know you're just just so listeners
are clear, there's no biological relationship between your eye and
(17:32):
so you're not really my son. So so, but but
you know, when it is your kith and kin, when
it's your kids, there is And I know this myself.
I find it it's much easier for me to give
advice to somebody that sometimes when it is to deal
with my own kids, because for me, there's that emotion
and and and I don't have that when I'm speaking
(17:53):
to somebody that's not my own kid, because I don't
have that personal connection. So often, as parents, when you're
having these difficult conversations, one of the things is how
to manage your own emotions. Like if I'm feeling really
annoyed and brassed off at you, because actually you were
you should have studied much more, and you and I
both know that, and it really ticks me off that
(18:14):
you haven't. And now look what you've done, and now
what's going to happen this year. But that's that emotion.
Expressing that emotion to you to your kid when you're
having this discussion is not going to be useful for
that conversation. They will know you're disappointed with them. They
will know that you're that you feel, you know, down
(18:35):
about it, just like they do. So for parents, it's
often about managing your emotions so that those don't seep
in and color the conversation in a different way. You know, yes,
there will be a time as a parent that you
need to let off your own steam about God, bluddy Jason.
I told him to get on with his study and
he didn't do it, and now look at him. But
(18:57):
that's a conversation with another adult. You know, if you've
got a partner, have a conversation with them, or if
you don't have a partner, have a commonversation with a
friend or a family member. But that's not the conversation
to have with the young person because all they're here
as your anger or your frustration. They won't hear anything else.
So emotion management, I think is a real key for
(19:18):
anything in parenting.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Really, yeah, we'll be back after this. Thank you very
much for your thoughts. So far Google News Talk z B.
It's just about five point thirty News Talk z BE
with Jason Walls filling in for Tim Beverage on the
(19:41):
Weekend Collective. Before we get back to Googled, a couple
of texts about our award winning performance. Then ha ha ha,
you play that role perfectly, as in me and as
a teen. Somebody else says, this is a real tough listen, haha,
Jason makes a great teen spot on Thank You very Much.
Two out of three is not bad, isn't it? Doogled?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, look that's sixty six. Let's a pass an eNCA.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
That's right, That's exactly right. Hey, I'm interested in something
you were saying before the break. You were talking about
you know, you don't want to vent to your kids,
to your teens about their performance, but go talk to
a friend or a partner or something or somebody like that.
What's the etiquette around that?
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (20:19):
What's the does and the don'ts? I mean, because listen,
I love I was a perfect kid growing up. I
can already see my parents let texting in right, never
did anything wrong, never three any house parties when they
were out of town or anything like that. I'm sure
they vented about me. I'm sure they at some point
like this little this little crap, what's he doing? This
little knucklehead? How do you do that as a parent
(20:40):
in this I'm just interested in the kosher way of
doing that.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Oh look, I think firstly, it's where you do it,
and you really want to do it out of earshot
of of of of your team. So it might be
at work, or it might be you know, you know,
or they might be out because it's first it's not
the sort of conversation you you want them to overhear either,
(21:08):
but it is look at it as parents, we're humans too,
just like your team is. Weirdly enough, although they don't
act like it sometimes, but it's about it's just like anything.
It's it's as a parent. This is an event in
your life just as much as in its event in
their life that has made you feel a particular way,
and we know that it's really useful to manage your emotions,
(21:32):
or one useful way to manage your emotions is actually
talking it through with somebody else. So it's it's and
it's being honest, it's saying, look, it really brassed me off.
Jason was just I knew that he wasn't going to
do it, and I feel so bloody frustrated about it.
And look, that's perfectly fine. That is how as a
(21:53):
parent that you might experience it. But the difference is
having a place where you can vent that feeling, where
you can express that feeling that is not with your tea.
And often I think as parents, you know, we get
drawn into it's like a magnet, or you know that
you get drawn into expressing that emotion in front or
(22:13):
towards your children and your rent and your rave, and
you tattle them off, and that it really doesn't do
anybody an awful lot of good. You generally feel terrible
after you've done it. It damages the relationship with your team,
and they feel terrible too because now you're yelling and
swearing and raving at them, and it doesn't really achieve anything.
(22:35):
And look, my experience with you know, and I've worked
with parents for over twenty years now, and often it's
that the key thing is how do people manage their
emotion in any state, whether they're angry or whether they're
worried themselves. It's putting up a protective layer between your
(22:56):
emotion and your child or young person, because you know,
kids don't know how to deal with their with their parents'
emotion and they shouldn't have to because that's not the
relationship you have. So you're having a good you know,
and there's nothing wrong with having a bit of a
(23:16):
bitch and a moan with your good friends or your
family about how you feel about your kids. That's fine
because it's a reality for you.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
But so that happens quite often, does it? I just
I don't have kids. Hopefully someday we'll have a couple
of spraguelets running around. But is it quite normal for
parents to get together and just kind of gossip about
their kids, not in the malicious way, but just as
a weed event.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Look, I think I think it is, you know, and
you certainly find that there's a sense of when you
do it as a parent. I think that there's a
sense of relief that actually because because nine times out
of ten other parents are feeling just like you, and
you get some validation, you know, people say, oh, yeah,
I had that with mine too. God they never study
these days, do they? And you go, oh, I thought
(24:00):
it was just me? And actually that helps sort of
teamer down a little bit your your your emotion because
you are just you're getting some validation from somebody. Are
sure hearing that you're not the only one who also
feels brassed off? But I think you know, parents often
do that. You know, kids don't know and and and
(24:23):
it's a bit like center that kids never really know
that it's the parents, but parents. Weirdly enough, parents have
emotions too, and they need to be they need to
be able to express and manage those but just in
an adult appropriate way. But certainly that certainly in my circles,
you know, lots of time parents will We've just been
away with some friends of ours in christ Church. They've
(24:44):
got kids very similar ages to ours, and we shared
some frustrations and some anxieties and some you know, some
celebrations that we could with our friends, adult to adult.
And I think it's really important.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
And you make a really good point about you know,
you don't want to feel like you're alone in this everybody.
It's likely, you know, teens are not that complicated. There've
been the same since the dawn of time. It's likely
that other people are going to have the same struggles
that you have, So having that camaraderie and being able
to and I have a couple of shard knees with
the girls. While you talk about the NCAA results and
the dues and the don'ts, it's probably very.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Healthy, yeahslutely and look at a stretched thinking back about
you know, my kids are now eighteen and twenty three,
twenty four and thinking back about that their whole journey
through through life so far. Definitely, it's not just teenagers.
You know, there's the temper tantrums as a two and
a three year old, and getting together with other parents
(25:40):
who are well even when they even when the new
you know, young young babies and they're not sleeping and goh,
there's nothing worse for a parent than you know, nights
after night after not sleeping and dealing with a grumpy
And actually it's really important for parents to get that
sport from one another and not to feel alone, because
I think that's certainly with parents I've worked with over time,
(26:02):
that's one of the things they talk about, is is
actually having that sense that oh, I'm not alone, I'm
not in this by myself. This is actually okay, it's normal.
And the message underlying that is we can get through
it because as you say, people have been doing this
since the dawn of time, although there is some interesting
literature around as teenage are the teenage years just sort
(26:24):
of a creation of the last sort of two centuries
but putting out well, I think the theory is is
that actually, you know, people were thrust into adulthood much sooner,
much earlier than than they are in modern times. You know,
once you were thirteen or fourteen, often you're off into
(26:44):
the workforce, and perhaps sooner than that, particularly for people
from working you know, and you know, who were the
working class. They didn't have necessary the luxury of having
some elongated period of adolescence that it was okay, you've
finished schooling at twelve and often to the workforce. And
(27:04):
there is some theories out there that teenagehood has really
only become into its own in the last hundred years
or so, as we've had much more of a middle
class and much more of a time when we are
you know, when we don't have to go out to
work when we're twelve or thirteen, and we can stay
at home for a but longer. But yeah, but that's
(27:26):
our theory. It's it's not it's not necessarily everybody agrees
on that.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, interesting stuff, Doogled, Thank you so much. We'll be
back with more with doogled Sutherland after the break. You're
with News Talk as z B for the weekend Collective
News Talks ed B. Jason Walls with you here on
the Parenting Squad talking to doogled Sutherland, who is with
the Umbrella Well Being Group. Doogle, I'm interested about the
school holidays a parent. How do parents manage the school
(27:54):
holidays these days? I mean, most people have twenty days
annual leave a year. There are a lot of holidays
throughout the year, and then you've got this big stretch
at the end of the year. Does how do you
think that works for a lot of parents.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
It's a real toughie, I think especially you know, we've
been talking about teens, and of course, once your kids
get to teenagers, they can you know, they can be
home by themselves and that's cool, but you know, younger
than that, you know, for the first thirteen fourteen years
of their life, it is really hard. It's as you say,
(28:26):
we get twenty days of annual leave a year. Some
people might get a few more, but on average that's
what we get, and kids are off school for an
awful lot longer than that. And interesting that the little
blurb you know, just that just before we came on
here was about the community that you know, the parenting
squad is the community that's helped raising your child. Well,
(28:48):
I think this is a real time, you know, one
of those situations where you do need a community around
you you and people might there's lots of things, you know,
when our kids were growing up, we would often have
grandparents come up for a week or two to look
after the kids, or as they got older, we some
occasionally popped them on a plane and they went down
(29:08):
to the need and to stay with the grandparents, or
you know, you remembering that most parents are probably in
the same position as you. So are there people around
you in your neighborhood and your friend circles and your communities,
whatever communities you're in, who you can club together with
and say, hey, look, you know, if you do two days,
we'll do two days, and you know, we'll have your
(29:30):
kids and you have ours, and then we can we
can eke it out. But it's it is, it's the
mass is simply doesn't add up right, that you know,
kids are off school. I don't know what, they're off
school for eight twelve weeks a year and we've got
half of that if you're lucky, and then you'll leave.
So but I think it really the key really is
coming together in communities where you can help and support
(29:51):
one another.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
What if you don't have that sort of situation.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
That's tough a And of course there are people out
there who are like that. We were a little bit
like that. I think when we had our son, our
first child, we moved to Wellington and we really had
very few, very few friends and family around us. We
moved from my wife's job and it was okay. Look,
(30:16):
I think if you can afford it, there'll always be
you know, there'll always be holiday programs, and they're often
although kids can gown and grown a bit having to
get up and go to them, they're often pretty enjoyable.
So that might be a good thing. Look, it could
be that it's an opportunity for you to meet people
in your neighborhood. There will often be high school students
(30:37):
who are looking for some extra money over that time
and who are happy to do it at a much
cheaper rate than a school holiday program. You might have
to talk really nicely to your boss and say, hey, look,
is there any way that I could be working from
home a little bit? Yeah, just so that I'm around
to supervise my kids. I don't want to give working
from home a bad name or the sense that, you know,
(30:58):
when people are working from home they're not really doing it.
But for some people that's a reality, is that I
don't have friends and family around, and they might just
need to be at home just and they'll have to
set kids up. There is a lot of setting up. Okay,
Monday it's this, and Tuesday it's that, So there might
be a bit of setting up and you being around
a little bit more to supervise them.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
And how do you deal with that sort of routine?
Have you got any good tips around that one?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
You mean the routine of when they are just this
period when parents are back at work and kids still
on holiday. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, because you were talking about how on Monday you
do this on Tuesday night?
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yeah, yeah. Look, Look, I think that the times when
the situation that I have experienced it have worked the best,
both personally and with you know, with other parents. I've
known when you've sat down and actually done a little
bit of planning out you've mapped out a week, you know, Okay,
Monday morning, this is what's going to happen. Monday afternoon,
(31:54):
this will happen. You know, the same for Tuesday, Wednesday,
et cetera. It does take a little bit of planning,
and the better planned you are, I think, the better
prepared you are. And it tends to involve your kids
in that as much as you can. You know, what
are some of the things that you would like to do.
And of course they're going to say that they want
to go to the movies every day, and they want
to watch video. You know, they want to be on
(32:15):
the PlayStation for twenty four hours and that's not going
to happen every day. But you know, remember it's their
holidays too, so be a bit more lenient. If they
want to have a bit more screen time than usual,
you know, maybe that's okay. If they want to go
to the pool every day, then maybe that's okay as well.
But just you know, remembering that it is the holiday
(32:36):
as well. It's their time to enjoy it. But the
more planning and preparation and advance you can do, I
think the more likely you are for it to go.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Well, yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it. I remember
going to holiday programs when I was a kid and
being very sort of grumpy about having to go because,
as you said, I wanted to stay home and play
Police Station the whole time. But then you get there
and you actually find that you enjoy it quite a lot.
Is there a way that you know without telling your
kids I told you so, but telling them I told
you so that one.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Oh. Look, going back to earlier conversation, I think, particularly
once kids get over the age of sort of nine
or ten or so, you can probably have that again.
It's resisting the urge to tell them that that you
told them so, and getting them to reflect on it
(33:24):
and just gently reminding them. And this is a sort
of a delicate thing to do, but gently reminding them
that actually because of how they felt before they went,
because often kids will be very much in the here
and now and they've loved it and it was great. No,
I want to go back and just gently remind them,
you know, in a positive way. Ah, great, that's cool,
(33:46):
because I actually when we talked about it last week,
you weren't so into it, and just exploring with them
what it was that made it good. You know, you know,
so what changed your mind, what was good that made
it or what did you enjoy that made it actually
quite good for you rather than than what you thought
or feared it was going to be. And then so
(34:09):
letting them reflect and come up with the answers, because
that's actually kind of going to be valuable information for
you in the future, going, oh, actually that this worked,
this holiday programer would ever work for them because I
don't know, they went to the pool, or they did
went to the zoo or something, and that was written.
So let's try and do that again next summer holidays.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So you retain a bit of that information and say,
remember going to the zoo last time. I'm sure they'll
be doing that again.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Yeah, that's right, And it may take a little bit
of you reminding them because and and also as parents
sometimes you just have to you know, kids just have
to do what they have to do, because that's the
stark reality. And so not getting too drawn into the
fact that I don't really want to do it. This
(34:57):
is terrible, it's the worst day of my life. And
again just sort of having to push through that because
as parents, you know that they'll probably enjoy it when
they get.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, absolutely right, doogle. Thank you so much for the chat.
I've learned quite a lot. I particularly liked our roleplay,
and I hope if you've been listening along you've learned
a lot as well. So thank you very much and
you enjoy the rest of your day.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Thanks Jason, great to chat with you, and yeah, enjoy
the rest of your evening now that we're officially an
evening time.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Thank you so much. Oh, News Talk is zed B.
You're with Jason Walls for the Weekend Collective. It's just
about ten to six.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk zed B weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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