Full Show Podcast: 14 September 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wikeles for
the best election of great Reads us Talks EDB.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Good morning and welcome to the Sunday Session on Francisca
Rudkin here until midday. Well that was quite a night,
weren't it. Thank goodness the black ferns clocked up for
when we're going to talk rugby and rugby league in
just a moment. Coming up on the show today, I
am joined by one of our top footies and restaurant owners.
Al brown Ow has a lifelong love of fishing. His
new book it's called Hooked Learning to Fish, and it's

(00:51):
said with everything you know to get started. It's aimed
at young people, but to be honest, this is the
perfect book for any beginner, regardless of age. We've also
got a copy of the book to give away. We
will do that. Just after ten after eleven, filmmaker Dame
Gaining preston an Artists Day Robin White joined me to
talk about their beautiful collaboration Grace of Prayer for Peace.
The film premierre at the New Zealand International Film Festival.

(01:13):
It is now back in cinemas and it really is
something quite special. Gamen follows Robin as she works, and
it's a rare thing to be able to get a
personal insight into an artist's work, to observe their methods
and materials and motives. It's really fascinating watch how she can,
watching her conceive and then execute her work. So Dame
Gaining Preston and Dame Robin White are with me after

(01:35):
eleven and of course, as always love to hear from
you throughout the morning. You can text on ninety two ninety.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Two the Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
So it's been a bit of a sad week, hasn't it.
Humanity has not been at its best. A police officer
almost lost his life when we've got a glimpse into
the harsh reality of life in the bush for three
young children. A conservative activist lost his life practicing politics
in the US, And a trial began here against a
mother who was alleged to have killed her children, drugging
them and then placing them in a suitcait and leaving

(02:07):
them at a storage unit, and to top it off,
a complaint about the comedic ad with Tina from Turners
was upheld by the Advertising Advertising Standards Authority, which may
be proof we are losing our sense of humor. But
it's not just the events themselves that were saddening, but
also the way we the public responded to them. We

(02:27):
have a tendency to react without knowing the full story.
We weaponize tragedy politically, and we're easily outraged by a
burnout after shooting a police officer in the head in
front of his child. It was baffling to hear Tom
Phillips being regaled as a folk hero of sorts. After
seeing the conditions these children were living in and learning

(02:47):
how he armed them and took them on his many
alleged armed robberies, restricting them from society and family, and
took away their rights to education and medical care. He
doesn't sound much like a hero to me. If the
court injunction preventing information being made public comments from the
police about Phillip's receiving help and the children being in

(03:08):
state care tells us anything, is that this is a
very complicated story, one we will hopefully know more about soon,
because there are plenty of questions to be asked from
the police in Oranga Tamariki's response to the first abduction
through to now, whether the risk to the children was
appropriately assessed, and whether the police have responded in their

(03:28):
best interests over the last four years. But right now,
the most important thing to remember is that there are
young people at the heart of this, young people who
will always be defined by and identified with what has happened,
and protecting them, helping them deal with what they've been
through and adjusting to life again is the most important thing.

(03:49):
Our two cents on what we think about what's happened
and the people involved is utterly irrelevant. The Sunday Session,
so you're most welcome to text are ninety two, ninety
two and Upnext we're going to head to the US
to talk about the political response to the killing of
Charlie Kirk what it means for the US going forward.

(04:10):
It is eleven past nine year with News.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Talks B Even Simple.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
It's Sunday the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutgutter and Wiggles
for the best selection of great Reads.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
News Talks eNB.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
It's thirteen past nine, so Yesterday, Utah Governor Spencer Cox
made an impassioned plea to the people of Utah and
all of America following the assassination of Charlie Kirk this week,
Cox is urging Americans to find a different path.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
We can return violence with violence, we can return heat
with heat. And that's the problem with political violence, is
it metastasizes because we can always point the finger at
the other side, and at some point we have to
find an off ramp or it's going to get much,
much worse.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
So what does Charlie Kirk's death mean for the political
divide and political violence in America? Joining me is Washington,
DC Bureau Chief of The Guardian, David Smith. Good morning, David,
good morning. So we heard about this very powerful speech
that was made on Friday saying Americans need to find
an off ernt before this gets worse. Do you think
this speech will make a difference.

Speaker 5 (05:18):
It will maybe contribute to those voices who are urging
for calm and the cooling of the temperature and trying
to get beyond the bitter partisan fighting that we've seen
over more than a decade in US politics and achieve
recognition of common humanity and you know what everyone has

(05:43):
in common, certainly Spencer Cox, the governor of Utah. You know,
these remarks were welcomed by others who are making that case,
who are just sick of the divisiveness, the default to
the anger, the hatred that characterizes social media in particular,

(06:04):
and in another part of his remarks, Spencer Cox tackle
that issue and you know said social media is part
of his problem. He urged people to, you know, get outside,
touch some grass, get away from it all, switch off.
And you know, I think it's important to recognize he
is part of a wider initiative. This was not just

(06:25):
one speech. He's made remarks before after tragedies, and he's
got an a initiative going called Disagree Better through the
National Governors Association, where he worked with Democrats and they
they tried to promote civil dialogue. So, you know, I
think it's good people are making that case. At the
same time, there's no doubt this is a perilous moment

(06:48):
for America.

Speaker 6 (06:49):
The atmosphere is freebrile.

Speaker 5 (06:51):
Just when you thought think that another line can't be crossed,
somehow America does cross that line. And I know many people,
especially members of Congress at the moment are fearful for
their own safety.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
Is because David Cox also see it's a water sheeting.
He asked whether the killing of Charlie Kirk is the
end of a dark chapter for America, couldn't change things
or is this just the beginning of a dhaka chapter.
I mean, is this the way the American people are feeling?

Speaker 6 (07:17):
I think many are.

Speaker 5 (07:18):
Yeah, there is fear and anxiety about what is happening.
We have seen a surge of political violence in the US.
And I speak as a former Africa correspondent of The Guardian.

Speaker 6 (07:34):
I used to travel around African countries.

Speaker 5 (07:36):
You know, using that phrase often political violence, and it
denoted this idea that democracy was breaking down. You know,
elections were no longer enough. You know, politicians might get assassinated.
One could and should probably apply the same prism to
the US, where we have seen the tax on politicians,
where you know, elections under threat. Democracy itself is looking

(07:58):
somewhat shaky. And you know, just in the last few years,
we've had an attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband, she was
of the House. We've had the January sixth insurrection where
five people died in the aftermath of that we, of course,
last year, have had two assassination attempts against Donald Trump.

(08:19):
Earlier this year a deadly attack on Democrats at the
state level in Minnesota, and now the killing of Charlie Kirk.
I mean, it's not necessarily new in America, in a
country where four presidents have been assassinated throughout history, and
where we certainly saw a great deal of political violence
and turbulence during the nineteen sixties. But it certainly does

(08:41):
seem to be one of those crisis moments. Nobody really knows,
just to Spencer Cox's point, whether it's going to get
worse before it gets better. You know, are are we
reaching that watershed and people be ready to turn the
corner or will things continue to darken? I suspect with

(09:01):
Donald Trump in the White House just being such a
divisive figure and even politicize this tragedy and using it
to point the finger, we may still be some way
away from turning the corner on this.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yes, the political weaponizing of this killing. Let's talk a
little bit about that. Donald Trump is blaming the radical left.
He's signaling a crackdown on critics and left leaning institutions.
How problematic is it when you have that kind of
messaging from a president.

Speaker 5 (09:28):
I mean, just to go back to Spencer Cox, I
think that was another reason why his speech stood out,
because it was what many people wanted to hear and
needed to hear, and it was what Americans and people
around the world have come to expect from their leaders
at these moments of crisis. You want that calm, compassionate voice,
calling for unitity, calling for healing. I think, in fairness,

(09:51):
we've also heard that from some mainstream politicians in the US,
both Democrat and Republican.

Speaker 6 (09:56):
You know, in the Senate for example.

Speaker 5 (09:59):
But there are others such as Nancy Maser, congressman who's Republican,
who were said, did Democrats own this? Unsurprisingly, there is
all sorts of fire and brimstone on social media, people
talking about civil war and so on, and and yes,

(10:19):
I'm afraid Donald Trump himself is in that latter camp.
He's one of those who are pouring few on the
flames rather than trying to calm the atmosphere. He's blamed
radical Democrats. And you know, as he so often does,
he's making it an US versus them issue.

Speaker 6 (10:39):
And I think you know.

Speaker 5 (10:40):
There are two many concerns out of that, one is,
will his rhetoric help inspire some you know, radical individual
or a right wing militia to seek vengeance in some
way and feel that they're justified, that they have the
presence backing to do that. And then secondly, could we
see it expressed in terms of legislation or law enforcement

(11:03):
crack down? You know, we're already being troops on the
streets of major cities in the US. Trump Trump's a
sort of announced another crackdown in Memphis, Tennessee, for example.
Will this killing be a pretext for a further curtailment
of civil liberties, perhaps a little reminiscent of what happened
in America after the September eleventh, two thousand and one attacks.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
So, David, how likely is it then that the Democrats
and Republicans could come to give to sort this.

Speaker 5 (11:33):
I'm not holding my breath right now, having seen I mean,
arguably a generation long trajectory of polarization. You can sort
of debate where all this really started, but I think
many would say perhaps around the nineteen nineties, with Bill
Clinton's presidency and Newt Gingrich of the Republicans adopting some

(11:55):
bare knuckle tactics and ever since then it's really deepened
and worsened. And social media has been a tremendous accelerant
for that. And you know how people who go into
Congress not so much because of their political expertise or
grasp of policy, but more because they know how to

(12:16):
create a viral sensation on social media and you know,
shock and amaze people and make their name that way,
become a social media star. And of course this was
something Charlie Kirk himself was adept at. And if you
just look at the statistics, the country is more polarized,
as much less overlap between the parties on policy. There

(12:39):
are fewer and fewer seats that are genuinely competitive, you know,
the vast majority of seats you know before election this
is red or this is blue. And again, speaking of accelerants,
you know Donald Trump himself, of course, with his insults,
his language choices, has poured further fuel on those flames.

(13:01):
And yeah, there's I'm afraid even the assassination of Charlie
Kirk is not necessarily going to.

Speaker 6 (13:09):
Halt that. For now.

Speaker 5 (13:11):
We have midterm elections next year, we still have Trump
in office. I don't particularly see an end in sight.
Now when Donald Trump is finished as president and somebody
else takes over, that might be more of a turning point.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
David Smith, thank you so much for your thoughts this morning.
That was the Washington, DC bureau chief for The Guardian.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
The Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
A big Saturday night of sport, but it didn't quite
turn out as we would have hoped, did it. Warriors
are out of the NRL after a loss to the Panthers,
the All Blacks a record loss to the spring Box
and thank goodness for the Black Ferns who came through
for us this morning. They are through to the semi
final women's agbeat World Sky Sport commentateate Jeff mctash called

(13:56):
the Black Ferns match last night. He was on the
couch double screening like the rest of us for the
earlier two matches, and he joins me, now.

Speaker 6 (14:02):
Jeff, good morning, good morning.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
This is very kind of you must have been a
youst got to bed not too long ago.

Speaker 7 (14:10):
I don't actually know how much left hand in the
last couple of weeks. In fact, in the last three
weeks to a month, it's been been a few late nights,
early mornings. But as you said, thank goodness for the
Black Ferns and what they did at exit at Sandy Park.
It was yeah, it was pretty nervy, to be honest,
that first half ten all with South Africa. Of course
we're playing their first Rugby World Cup quarterfinal. Wonderful for

(14:34):
them to get to that stage, and they played some
excellent rugby in that first forty minutes. They really tested
New Zealand, particularly the way they carried the ball. They
do a very very good rolling, this leads up close
to the line and scored a couple of good tries
and really pressured the Black Ferns and something that they
hadn't experienced at this edition of the World Cup. That

(14:55):
had three relatively easy games or easier games through pool
play to top group CEE. But they ran into a
highly spirited, highly motivated team and and I guess you know,
in some ways, as their coach Swice the Brain said,
the South African coach, they drew inspiration from their performance
in Wellington from the spring box against the All Blacks.

(15:15):
So wonderful first half from them. But boy, you know,
I was sitting there with Lezelda commentating the game for
Sky Sport, and you know we said to each other
at halftime, you know, we saw what the halftime Jet
did for the spring Box against the All Blacks, and
well and I just said, I wonder what the halftime
Jet's going to do for New Zealand here and man,
they came out in that second half and scored some

(15:37):
wonderful tries and just played their brand of rugby that
has seen them, you know, dominate the women's rugby landscape
for so many years. You know, they played outside of
their twenty two, running the ball from everywhere and scored
some good tries. So it was fantastic to watch. And
you know, I suppose one of the feel good stories
of the tournament has not only been Braxton, Sorens and

(15:58):
McGhee and the way she's played, but you know, all
the injuries they've had, Kype Wilson Baker, she was ruled
out of the twenty twenty two World Cup. Within looked
like this one was going to be over to when
she went down early in the first game, only fourteen
minutes in. But for her tous score two tries and
be the player of the match was wonderful.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
Great narrative, Jeff, We've got Canada next Saturday. Canada comfortably
bet Australia. How do you see that one going?

Speaker 7 (16:23):
Well, it's going to be a step up for New Zealand. Again,
Canada a very very good team and you know we've
had experience with them this year and just that tough
it is playing against them with a draw. So look,
I think the Black fans will take plenty out of
that game against South Africa, certainly that first half and
that you know, teams are really going to test them

(16:44):
set peace and the way that they play upfront, so
they can take plenty from it. But I think as
we saw in twenty twenty two when the Black Friends
won that World Cup, they have to play to their
DNA and that is moving the ball, moving the ball
and getting it to players like Braxton, who's who's just
an absolute world class player at the age of eighteen.

Speaker 6 (17:04):
That's quite incredible.

Speaker 7 (17:05):
So I'll be exciting to see what transpires over the
next couple of weeks.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
So Jeff Scott Robertson had one week without a whole
lot of pressure, but that's kind of all over. Now. Look,
last night a record loss. We all saw it. There
were problems with the scrums, the line out got wobbly
defense just wasn't there. How do you sum up this performance?

Speaker 7 (17:28):
Well, you know, it is the heaviest the All Blacks
have ever suffered and it's the facts are pretty bear,
aren't they. And I think they're going to have to
go away. And you know, there's been a lot of
talk of honest conversations and reflection and I guess from
that though, what do you do about it? What action
plan do you put in place to improve as a team?

(17:49):
And I think you know Saturday for you've got to
tip your hat to them. Russia Erasthmus made wholesale changes.
I think most people were looking at that Springbok team.
Naming his team on a Monday, just classic Russia Erasthmus
tactics ahead of a test match, naming his team on
a Monday. One of the youngest back lines of Forget
in years. I think they were only a couple of
players over the age of thirty in that back line.

(18:10):
But you look at the injuries they had to deal
with at the start of the game, you know, losing
their number ten s I shuld find boom Gommezulu number
of plays. Five players in New Zealand lost their starting
halfback and I owe them as well. So I think
what was extraordinary about that game was the fact that
South Africa had to not only deal with bulk changes,
deal with injury and adversity early in the match. And

(18:32):
if you're in New Zealand, you know they were just
exposed in so many areas that perhaps you know, we're
not used to seeing the All Blacks exposed in. And
one of those is is that second half ability. Over
the years, the All Blacks had had a way or
have found a way to get themselves back into Test matches.
And Mills Maline has said in the commentary or coverage

(18:53):
last night postmatch, and he was dead right, like twenty
minutes to go, there's only fourteen points in that game
or thereabouts, and usually you're sitting there expecting New Zealand
to find a way back into the contest. But I
just thought they were outthought of. But last night, with
their kicking game certainly physically around the park, and the
way that the South African bench played as we've come

(19:13):
to expect and see over you know, the last few
years with Rassi has just has been exceptional and they
certainly powered them to that win. But I think it
did blow out. You know, if you're check churning in
and seeing that score, it was a bit of a
blow out at the end. But gee, there's a lot
of questions for the All Blacks come Monday.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
For sure, forty three ten if you missed the score
out there. And look, let's touch on the Warriors. Their
season is over with the twenty four to eight lost
to the Penrith Panthers. You know, I got to they
came out, everyone was fired up last night and I
thought to myself, goodness, man, what is going to happen here?
And you know, I also thought that maybe the game
would be over by halftime. So the decision to switch,

(19:53):
you know, channels on SKYS kind of must have been
gutted that allst was happening at the same time on
one night. But I thought it was going to be
an easy decision. But look, they hung in there for
a little bit, but then they just couldn't quite get
there in the end.

Speaker 7 (20:06):
Yeah, I mean lot from a sky perspective again, think,
goodness of the Black fans, we'll have to send them something.
But no, from a Warrior's point of view, I mean
like it has been the story of their season they've
produced some great rugby rugby league throughout, but just at
the back end. You know, injuries didn't help them this year.
They lost Luke Metcalf, they lost them, the lost Mitch
Barnett and other guys and Rocco Berry on the on

(20:29):
on on the night. So look, they've they've had to
bring in, bringing guys from that from the reserves and
and and you know, losing a guy like Metcalf and
Barnett through the season, it is not ideal to your
leaders and your playmaker. So so you had to deal
with that. Andrew we inauspicious start. You know, you've got
to take your opportunities when you're playing a team like
the pender of Panthers and in the finals game and

(20:50):
missing touch off of the penalty. When I saw that,
I thought, here we go. It could be a long night.
And look to their credit, you know, they hung in there.
They hung tough. But when they get the opportunities and
a guy like Nathan Cleary with his kicking game heading
on a string bounce of the all favor them a
couple of times as well. And our team like that
full time, back to back champions. It's just it's going

(21:13):
to be too hard, too much of an ask, and
I thought maybe that the wet weather was going to
help level things out for the Warriors. But again, you know,
like a disappointing into the season for for one that
promised so much I suppose early on, but as I say,
those injuries didn't help. But what is encouraging is that
you know, it is a phenomenal sports club. It is

(21:34):
so well supported. It's probably one of the most supported
sports club, if not the most supported sports team in
New Zealand. So a lot is happening for that club.
A lot is being done right on and off the field.
And in fact, today their junior team in the New
South Wales Kapa playing in the semi final against and
Georgia Lawara, and there's actually a Cleary playing for the Warriors,
Jack Cleary. So a lot of good things happening. But

(21:56):
you know they'll be looking at at the season and
you know they'll know they could have gone gone better,
probably that paramounta loss a couple of weeks back, when
you know they win that game, they sell up a
top top four and have a life in the finals.

Speaker 6 (22:07):
So lots to like about the season.

Speaker 7 (22:10):
But again it'll be leaving Warriors fans going next year
that year.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Well done, Jeff. Look, I hope you get a nap
this afternoon. Thank you so much for your time this morning.
Really appreciate it. You're with NEWSTALKSB. It is twenty eight
to ten.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on Newstalks EDB.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
I think Jeff's summed up very well what happened last
night with you all blacks of the Warriors. But you
may have an opinion as well. You're most welcome to
text ninety two ninety two Time to talk politics now
and I'm joined by New Zealand here and political editor
Thomas Coggan. Good morning, Thomas, Good morning. Right, a bit
going on with Party Marty this week took us through it.

Speaker 8 (22:49):
Yeah, an interesting week for to Party Mary. Obviously last weekend,
this time last weekend, we would have been talking about
the fact that their candidate already Kaipiter had absolutely host
home in the time with Kimcoto by election, So you know,
it would have been a pretty pretty great week. It
should have been a pretty great week for Party Marty,
but that swiftly turned in something else with this ongoing

(23:09):
controversy over MP Tarkusferis's comments on social media. You will
recall he posted to Instagram during the by election about
people who are not Malory coming to campaign for mainstream
parties and Maori seats, a post that was widely condemned
as racist, and he sort of doubled down on it

(23:29):
throughout the week on social media. Interestingly, the co leaders
of the party have tom to take this post down.
They have sort of distancing themselves from what he's posting
on social media. So there does appear to be something
of a risk opening up within the party. It's not
quite clear what's going on to party Mariy is a
bit of a black box sometimes when it comes to

(23:51):
their internal politics, but certainly from what we've seen from
the outside that there appears to be a wee bit
of tension. Later in the week that was sort of
confirmed with the quiet news, which was not publicly announced.
It was only revealed when media cottoned onto it that
CLO leader Debi Nardi where Packer had reshuffled herself into
the whips position.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
Righty, ho, keep an eye on what happens next.

Speaker 8 (24:16):
What would be quite interesting. Yeah, yeah, there could be
a number of things could happen next, including some some
perhaps more open and more open disagreement.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Karl Bates has been in the media this week. Of course,
the fang and MP under five are not declaring twenty
five properties here and his families are linked to it.
But then there's been sort of slightly embarrassing Facebook issue
as well, where it looks like he's kind of praised
himself for doing all the right things.

Speaker 8 (24:44):
Yes, so this is quite a complicated issue in terms
of what you're obliged to declare. Obviously, the MP's have
to declare their their financial interests because you don't want
you want you want on that to be transparent. MP's
are obviously making quite important decisions about the regulatory environment,
so you want to make sure that they are publicly
declaring everything that they're connected to. And there is some
complexity around what trusts and properties trusts. So he is

(25:08):
linked to the twenty five properties are owned to trust
that his family is linked to. He said that the
part of that Parliament, the Parliament's Register of Registrar of
Pecunary Interests okayed his declaration, so he hasn't broken any
any declaration rules. Let's be clear about that, but obviously
it does expose a sort of challenge in the rules.

(25:29):
When when when this sort of ownership structure allows you
to turn to not to clear these houses? Yes, and
then there was the rather embarrassing incident later in the
week where it appears where where where Carl's social media
account published a post praising him. What appears to have
happened there is that one of one of Carl's team
and in the office perhaps made the post thinking that

(25:53):
they were making it from their own personal accounts, when
actually it was it was the it was the account.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
Very very easy to do, Thomas. He looks very very
easy to do, Thomas, really quickly. And the next few weeks,
Labor is going to finally unveil its tax policy for
the election. Do we know when this will be?

Speaker 8 (26:13):
It is in the next few weeks. It will either
be later very late this month, I suppose, or perhaps
early early next month, but that could change. They actually
haven't agreed the text policy yet, so if it does,
you know, there is a chance that that that disagreement
you know, goes on and they won't get a position
to do it out at the moment within the next
few weeks.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
Thank you, so much as always Thomas Coglan. It is
twenty one to ten.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News TALKSB.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
A new youth arts festival starting this week is aiming
to make the arts accessible and affordable for young people
and their families. Were the Young kicks off on Tuesday
and is Auckland Live's first ever festival created specifically for
a youth audience. One of the artists involved in the
festival is Routine Spooner, and Rutene joins me now.

Speaker 9 (27:05):
Good morning, good morning.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
So this is the first time Aukland Live has created
a festival sort of exclusively aimed at a young audience.
Is this something that we need? Do you think?

Speaker 9 (27:15):
I think so. There's an organization so I definitely think so.
I think thinking around our Tomatik Papaya as an organization
that focuses on UH. It's a collective really run by
Kieren Palmer down in Wennington and it kind of groups
together all the children's theater makers or entertainment makers or UH.

(27:39):
And they did a study and realized the whole in
their gap for our for our tumad lots of focus
for live performance for our for for us pakiki as adults.
But it's really exciting that Auckland Live that come on board.
You know, I want to me to Capital E they
used to run a festival and that they're no longer

(28:01):
operating at full capacity anymore for mint, you know, and
they've been bitten by by the financial strain and so
on a measure to them. But Auckland Live has stepped
in and created this amazing festival tailor to our tomidikey
from sixteen years under. And there's heaps, it's choker and.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
It's really cool because there's this strong focus on accessibility
and affordability and there's look, there's a number of free
events as well as some taylor to neurodivergent audiences. It's
really important that art is accessible, isn't it.

Speaker 9 (28:36):
I think so? And I think Rosa Strateuy who's the
producer and it she's a mama and so she's done
some really conscious thinking around what us as parents, what
helps us take our tomidiqi you know, the decisions that
we have to make around ushering our tomidi key to
live events and so everything is thought through, like in

(28:56):
terms of the access. A lot of the events, no
all of the events are coded. They've got little keys
so that parents know art this is a soundly event
or this is uh, this is how you access that
that particular space because that whole center altis square in
all the surrounding venues in there active. And I think

(29:19):
that's going to create a lovely wee hub and it's
I think it's going to be something special.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
I think so too, brute. And I tell me about
your show.

Speaker 9 (29:29):
Well, my show pp Pop Pow. It's been it's been
around for a couple of years. Actually, we we started
making it in lockdown, so I we were the start
of the process was that online, mean, everyone was working online,
and it was well, it was a new challenge to
try to create art with with my collaborators through a

(29:51):
camera on a on a zoom call. But we did it.
And finally we came out to tell Marlam and we're
able to tattoo and play. And it's had a few
well yeah, a couple of years in development and it's
done a few festivals along the way, and it's morphed
into some think that is well that we're all super
happy with. And so the show itself is a I

(30:14):
like the label as like a theatrical concert. Well, some
people are calling these kind of things a gigsicle, which
is like a giggy musical kind of thing. But my
background is in cabaret, and so I wanted to create
something for Tamaiki and if I was to be honest,
to be honest, I wanted to create something for my daughter.
She was three years old at the time. And so

(30:37):
because I'm originally from the East Coast, Nachipur and but
I live here in Tamaki, Makoto, I wanted to create
something that reminded her of those values being somebody village
values when somebody's living away from our from our pa
and al Marai. And so I created this, this work
that speaks to our Manu, our bird life, and it

(31:02):
is well, it's looking at todayl Maldi in it's simplest
form and for me looks at today Ol Mary and
it's like on a matter pay nature or it's musical nature,
which I think is what makes this show. It's the
kumuta talking for its sweetness here. But it makes it

(31:23):
special is because it it doesn't profess to be the
pool of knowledge teaching everybody today on Mary, but it invites.
It's a place for us to explore it no matter what.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
And of course it's the beginning today at the beginning
of Marie Language Week as well. But look, you've been
involved in Marie music for a long time now and
it's come a long way in recent years, hasn't. I mean,
do you love that your daughter was growing up hearing
Marie pop songs on the radio?

Speaker 9 (31:52):
I think so. I think we uh, you know, we've
gone over the revitalization mountain and now we're getting We're
able to get specific. We're like, we're able to push
the language in all the little core and make it
as normal as possible. And I really love, particularly with
PP Popo, having the varied participants and I say participants

(32:16):
not so much audience and from different backgrounds and been
able to go there, be stand in front of them,
deliver something, teach them something and then replay it back
is pretty special. And I try and think back to
my time as a Tomadiki feeling like Teo Maudi or

(32:36):
Maldi music was its own thing. Now it feels like
Mali music is everybody's thing and can be everybody's thing.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
Absolutely brute a Spooner, thank you so much for your
time this morning. Really appreciate it. We're the young. It
starts this Thursday. It's going through the twenty eighth of September.
For more information on the festival and the show, Pep Palpal,
head to the events tab at Auckland Live, dot co
dot MZ so go check it out. There's nineteen live
performances and as I said, there's lots of free things
as well. It is twelve to ten putting.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
The tough questions to the newsmakers the Mic Hosking.

Speaker 10 (33:10):
Breakfast, the National Curriculum refresh. Education Minister Ericas Stanford is
with this, Why these specific subjects and how do you
choose them?

Speaker 11 (33:16):
Well, the Ministry of Education have given me quite a
lot of advice. But there's also some of things that
we've been talking about for a very long time, like Civics,
but we've never done and there's been many groups have
called for a Civics to be taught in our schools
and so that was a no brainer.

Speaker 10 (33:29):
Growing pushback that appears to be building around general changes
too in CEA.

Speaker 12 (33:34):
Is this a fight building?

Speaker 4 (33:35):
No?

Speaker 2 (33:35):
I don't think so. I think actually things that shifting.

Speaker 11 (33:37):
I was talking to our principle yesterday who said a
lot many of the principals who signed that original letter
now have changed their minds, which is encouraging.

Speaker 10 (33:44):
Back tomorrow at six am the Mic Hosking Breakfast with
a Vida News talk z EDB.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
Relax, it's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great reads used talk z EDB.

Speaker 13 (34:06):
So I came so I think Jason Hine's going to
have a really interesting show for you this afternoon at
midday weekend Sport.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
Look the texta coming through that are basically just saying
nothing's improved since we hung Fozzy out to dry. They're
talking about as we did the line out, the lineout
shrowing the scrum was a disaster. I'm gonna be honest
that that first try the All Black scored. I thought
it was fantastic. I got a little excited. The whole

(34:40):
team was involved. It looked like they had that belief back.
It looked like I thought to myself, gosh, you know,
is this what Rays is doing. He's encouraging them to
back themselves and make things happen. And they can make
it happen, you know, I felt good. That didn't last

(35:01):
very long because the sick half was an absolute disaster,
wasn't it. But not The other positive thing about the
All Blacks was Leroy Carter. Really liked watching him on
the field, and I thought he had a great debut
as well. So look, there is a few of my thoughts,
but we will talk to Jason Pine about that a
little later on. I thank you very much for your
texts ninety two ninety two. Look, it was quite a night,

(35:22):
wasn't it. We're hit. I'm trying not to multitask, right,
but I had I had the Rugby on the big screen.
Then I had no id. The Warriors were on the
big screen, the Rugby was on a computer on my knee.
I then had another computer beside me where I was
trying to write notes for the show today. And then
I put the slow cocker on right because I thought
this is going to be brilliant. Have a lovely meal
already to go at seven for got to switch it on,

(35:45):
as you do sometimes when you're busy, So we had
to get the dinner and even started, so that was
a bit of a disaster. So then you had to
get the uber eats out and then I was controlling
the uber. Hardly ever get uber. It's it's quite handy.
I got the uberts at that so there was four
screens going. I was going, this is not my this
is not how I was sort of, you know, planning
my Saturday night. It was a little bit full on,
but gosh, lots and lots of fun. We have got

(36:08):
a fantastic new podcast out by doctor. Doctor Kylie Wilson
is our guest. She is quite incredible. Were if you
were thinking, you know, how did the Warriors hit the
ground last night, how do they get out onto that
field and you know take a wedding approach and everything, Well,
she is the woman behind that. She's quite extraordinary. She's
a mental skills and performance coach. Doctor Kylie Wilson was

(36:31):
also used to be a rugby player, so when she
was studying and doing lots of research, she'd use herself
and her team she was playing in Wales to practice.
So we talk a lot about the role of sports psychology.
We talk a lot about the jobs, the teams, the
individuals that she works with, including the Warriors, and we
also talk about what it takes to be an elite athlete.
All really interesting. But then we look at how you

(36:52):
can take all the skills that elite athletes use to
remain poised, to remain focused, to deal with whatever's going on,
and bring them into our everyday lives that they might
be able to help you out, just you know, dealing
with your kids or maybe dealing with some stress. At
so Fabulous Podcast, have a listen. You can find the
Little Things wherever you get your podcasts at I Hate Radio, Spotify,

(37:14):
et cetera. It is a six to ten the.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Sunday Session full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Ab Al Brown, the hunting gathering chef, restaurant, her author,
and wine maker, is up next to talk about a
wonderful new book he has out. It's called Hooked Learning
to Fish. It's aimed at kids and tweens. Look, I
know it's only September, but I would write this down.
This is going to be an excellent Christmas present the
grandchildren or nieces or nephews. But look, we can all

(37:42):
get something out of this book. Al Brown on fishing
and life is with Us. Next, we're going to finish
the hour with a little bit of music from Olivia Dean.
This week she announced she was returning to tour in
New Zealand and twenty twenty sixth. Think she's going to
hit our shawls about October. This is man, I need you.

Speaker 14 (37:59):
The time, the place. Call me, tell me you've got
something to get arm you kind of like it when
you call me one oh whatever. The type of talk
and it got bom man I got a alliament be

(38:20):
the many talk to me, talk to me, talk to me,
talk to me, tell to me, to me, then me
talk to me and something me been manmediate it does
me suddenly been then that imament talking to me? Something's

(38:44):
been memment.

Speaker 15 (38:48):
Mm.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with friends Rudkin and Wiggles
for the best selection of great reads.

Speaker 3 (39:18):
Good to have you with us. It is seven past ten,
can we Chef Al Brown is best known as one
of our country's top foodies and restaurant owners, but I
reckon he might also be one of our keenest fishermen
and seafood lover. Fans of Al's work will have seen
his love of all things fish in as many cookbooks,
restaurants and television shows, and now El's teaching us not

(39:39):
as fisherman a thing or two. His new book is
called Hooked Learning to Fish. Al Brown, thank you very
much for coming and good morning.

Speaker 12 (39:47):
Absolutely pleasure to be here, Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
So loving this book it is. It is beautiful, It
is delightful. And I sort of picked it up and
I thought to myself at first, oh, kids are gonna
love this, and I started reading it and I actually,
everyone's all love this. This is really useful. It's like
the best introduction to i've seen.

Speaker 12 (40:07):
Thank you, well it's been.

Speaker 16 (40:09):
It was an interesting one because my who my publisher,
who I've always in the cookbooks with, asked me if
for like, you know, can I have a meeting with
you and just want to talk to you about a
possible idea and you know, you'd be interested in writing
a book about learning to fish. And it came quite
a shock because normally I'm writing recipes and doing all

(40:29):
that sort of carry on with books. But I have
a massive love of fishing, and I certainly have lots
of memories of being a child around fishing, and so
I said, yes, I will have a crack at that,
and then I started writing it. You know, four sort
of twelve year olds, but I just kept it kept
morphing into more of a not just a how to,

(40:52):
but sort of you know, so much more in there
for everyone else to use as well, because you can't
kind of teach people to fish unless you teach them
what a hook is, what a reel is, what you know,
and there's a whole lot of different real and a
holding of different hooks, and so it's become kind of
a reference as well.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
What I loved about it was that if I gave
this to a kid, the adult can actually use it
to assist, you know what I mean, Like it's a
great lie pear to have a quick read and then
go oh yeah, okay, well well let's do that, but
also have an understanding of what.

Speaker 16 (41:24):
It's because there's that that's and I write about it
in the book, and there's a saying out there that
you know, ten percent catch ninety percent of the fish,
and the ten percent who catch, you know, they're absolutely fanatical,
But most most people just love fishing for being outdoors.

Speaker 12 (41:39):
A piece of squid, you know, on a hook, on.

Speaker 16 (41:42):
A sinker, on a heavy rod, and go out and
catch fish. And every so often they catch a big
fish and they'll have that on their phone. But they don't,
you know, that's all it is to them. So when
if Johnny or Sally starts falling in love with fishing
and they go, hey, Dad, what's a running rig?

Speaker 12 (42:00):
Dad can go, well, you know, it's a hook. Have
a look, you know.

Speaker 16 (42:03):
So it is that sort of it's for everybody, and
and it's certainly it's not for the ten percent who
are really fantastic fishermen, but it is really for the
ninety percent.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
You mentioned your earliest memories of fishing, and I know
that you grow up on a farm and white it upper.
So where were you fishing?

Speaker 16 (42:19):
Well, I started eating. That was that was my first thing.
And I still have, you know, so many memories. You know,
we just had a we used to call it the river,
but it was more like a muddy creek that ran
through the property. And you know, I'd get back from
off the school bus and throw them a bag down
and throw them my rags and head out eating all

(42:39):
the time. I just really enjoyed. I think part of
it was being out of nature but exploring. And you know,
I talk about the word anticipation, and anticipation is a
huge part of fishing. It's you're anticipating you're going out tomorrow,
You're anticipating what you're hoping to catch. You anticipate what's
around the corner. You anticipate if I change my lure,

(43:02):
anticipate if the tiger you know.

Speaker 12 (43:04):
So there's that. That's what I read.

Speaker 16 (43:06):
Love about fishing is a sense of you don't know
what's going to come, but it's filling you with, you know,
joy of what the possibilities could be.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
Did you enjoy your school years or was this just
a wonderful distraction for you this evening.

Speaker 12 (43:24):
That's a good question. Well, I was terrible at school.
I didn't you know I was.

Speaker 16 (43:29):
I ended up being second year fifth I was never diagnosed,
but I'm dyslexic and so is my daughter, and so
the traditional classroom was no good for me. So so
maybe that, you know, I just absolutely, you know, I
loved the outdoors and I loved the idea of fishing.
I also, you know, I used to hunt quite a
bit as a kid as well, So just love being

(43:50):
out there doing it.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Because this book actually took me back to some of
your origins. I started thinking about Hunger for the Wild,
the TV show. I was like, yes, of course, You've
always been that hunt together on our screens.

Speaker 16 (44:00):
Yeah, you know, I absolutely love that. And yeah, Hunger
for the While was long time ago, but it was
absolutely honored to make a to make a show like
that for sure.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
So do you fish for the fish or do you
fish just for the time to sit and be still
and kind of focused on something else in life.

Speaker 12 (44:20):
I think it's I just get so much pleasure out
of it.

Speaker 4 (44:24):
You know.

Speaker 12 (44:24):
Of course I love to cook, and I love to
bring a fish home and and to eat.

Speaker 16 (44:29):
You know, do a lot of fly fishing, and but
but trout I just always put back. I don't find them, particularly.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
The mud fish trout.

Speaker 16 (44:39):
But but the you know, one thing I have learned
over the you know, when I grew up, you know,
we used to keep everything really and would never release anything.
But now you know, there's a term out there, you know,
catch and release, and and that's a really wonderful thing
to do. And until you do it, and you know,
it's it's such an enjoyable thing to to have a
battle battle of fish. And with fly fishing, especially the

(45:02):
trout win quite often. But there's something lovely about watch
them swim away, and it's a kind of a it's
good ju ju. It's sustainable sustainability all wrapped up and won.
And it makes you feel great watching it, watching a
fish swim away after you've battled it and caught it.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Because fishing, I think, gives us something that may be
lost or maybe people haven't experienced, especially young people, and
that is just time to sit in nature without distraction.

Speaker 16 (45:31):
Yeah, and I think, yeah, like you can't sit in
nature and swipe nature, if that makes sense. That the
idea of being, you know, and the thing about fishing
is that you're constantly looking at what's happening around you
and the awareness of you know, whether it's the weather changing,
the tide coming in, walking around, walking up a river,

(45:53):
there's you know, and it gives you time. It gives
you time to actually give your brain a rest and
give you know. I think it is you know, we
all talk about the benefits of mental health these days.
Will certainly fishing is one of those things. And I
love going out with mates, but I'm just as happy
to go out by myself and just be out there

(46:15):
in nature. However, there is a you know, there is
a saying out there that people say, oh, you know,
it's not about catching the fish. It's just being out there.
I think that's rubbish. We all love to catch a fish.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
Are you part of that ten percent? Have you nailed fishing?

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Are you look?

Speaker 16 (46:32):
I like to think I was knocking on the knocking
on the door. You know, I adore it. And you know,
but my brother Jeremy was mentioned in the book a lot.
He's definitely in the ten percent. He's absolutely fanatical about it.
And there's no question. The more we like anything in life,
I think the more effort you put in, the better
you become at it. And the learning curve with fishing

(46:56):
never ends. And the ten percent will tell you that
as well. But yeah, it's just a fantastic pastime.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
Where is your favorite place to fish?

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Or is it?

Speaker 3 (47:07):
Is it fly fishing or is it off a wolf?

Speaker 12 (47:09):
Or it's interesting. I get pleasure out of any form
of fishing.

Speaker 16 (47:17):
Be it off a wolf, teaching kids how to catch
sprats or piper or anything like that, or or you know,
I really enjoy.

Speaker 12 (47:24):
Walking up a river.

Speaker 16 (47:24):
There's something about that anticipation again of walking from Paul
to Paul to fish and spotting firshon and tying a
fly and catching something that you've you know that you've
fooled with your with your own pattern of fly. But
you know, out out in a dinghy, you know, I
think the thing about it is it's a really simple

(47:47):
form of pleasure.

Speaker 12 (47:47):
You know, you don't have.

Speaker 16 (47:48):
To be out in a half a million dollar boat
fishing for for Marlon. You know the pleasure that comes,
you know, there's a feeling of of when the weight
comes on the howk that every fisherman will tell you
that is this absolutely split second moment of ecstasy. And
of course that can be the opposite that it's agony

(48:10):
when you feel the weight come off the hook as well, But.

Speaker 12 (48:13):
That's all part about it.

Speaker 16 (48:14):
And if we always caught fish when we went out,
I don't think we'd like it as much as we do.

Speaker 12 (48:20):
It's that anticipation and you have good days and bad days.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
Favorite seafood.

Speaker 12 (48:26):
Has to be an oyster for me.

Speaker 16 (48:28):
Yeah, yeah, I really love well, look I love you know,
to be honest, that's a little bit. You know, who's
your favorite daughter, which is Connie at the moment, joking
Elie if you're listening to this, But no, I just
love all seafood, and you know there's something wonderful memories
of you know, and I remember when we grew up,

(48:51):
the fathers especially used to go out a bit deeper
and dive dive for craze, and as kids would get
the power this is on the wide upper coast and
contributing to dinner, even when I was, you know, seven
or eight years old. There's something wonderful about that memory.
And the pride of bringing a fish home that you

(49:13):
cook and that you share with your family and friends
is something that I'll never tire off.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
When I was flicking through the book, so much valuable
information here, but I kind of got near the end
and I thought, all I need now is to know
how to cook this vision. Of course, there is a
chapter on cooking your catch, But tell us what is
the secret to cooking a perfect fi little fish?

Speaker 7 (49:33):
Oh?

Speaker 16 (49:34):
Well, the thing is, of course, you know, fresh fish
is wonderful raw. Most fish is wonderful raw. So I
think the only tip I can really give you is
that just don't overcook it.

Speaker 12 (49:47):
It's fine if.

Speaker 16 (49:48):
It's a little bit you know, we like to call
it in the restaurant game opaque in the center. But
if it's an oily fish, that is going to be
less forgiving.

Speaker 12 (49:58):
If you overcook it.

Speaker 16 (50:00):
But if it's a fish like a you can't rarely
overcook a flounder or a turbot or or soul or
anything like that. They've got incredible amount of or they're
very very tender filets, and they feast off crustaceans, so
they're sweet and you know, so so those are sorts
of things, but just err on under cooking. You can

(50:23):
always cook it some more if it's not quite to
your liking, but you can't if you've overcooked it, do
anything with it except put more sauce on it.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
I've read your favorite daughter Connie has said that your
sashimi recipe is one of her favorites. And actually that
I noticed was in the book.

Speaker 16 (50:37):
Yeah, and the depot sliders, which is kind of like
one of our signature that dishes from the restaurant that's always.

Speaker 12 (50:43):
Been in there.

Speaker 16 (50:44):
And you know, recipes for me two words that shouldn't
be in the same sentence as secret and recipe. You know,
I really love you know, there's something wonderful about sharing recipes.
I think, you know, if Auntie dot dies with her
fruitcake recipe she was a miserable old Auntie, then you know,
like I think recipes and food and sharing good and

(51:05):
it's all. You know, I love people saying that they
that they've used a recipe out of the book and
they've they've added some coriander or something to the recipe.
Well then it becomes their recipe, you know, and then
they pass it on. So they're kind of like culinary
love letters.

Speaker 12 (51:19):
I reckon.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Now, congratulations. You recently turned sixty, I believe, and celebrated
in the best way possible with a trip around Europe. Yes,
was this anything to do with your wine?

Speaker 16 (51:32):
And I hadn't done I hadn't traveled for a long
time really, except with work, so that this was we
decided to do a week for every decade I've been
roaming the earth. So it was six weeks, which was
which was amazing. But I have to tell you that

(51:53):
when I was, you know, I couldn't wait to get home.
To be honest, I think six weeks was a little
bit too long, and I realized that there's too many
people over there, and I guess it reinforces you know,
how wonderful you know this country that we live in
right now.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Is Are you enjoying though these little different ventures that
you have on the go. I enjoyed a beautiful bottle
of your prosecco recently.

Speaker 12 (52:16):
Yeah, well I have. I'm very, very lucky.

Speaker 16 (52:19):
I was approached by Constellation Brands, which is a massive,
massive company that has interests all around the world and
and lots of lots of there are lots of vineyards
and I've got the opportunity to make wine here in
New Zealand. And when I say make wine, you know,
like I hold the.

Speaker 12 (52:37):
Hand of the wine maker.

Speaker 16 (52:38):
Basically I can bring my palette, that's all. That's what
I can bring to the to the equation. But with
with you know, Constellation Brands, they have they have wineries
in Italy. So I got to make prosecco up there
that that you said you enjoyed, and been to the
Barosca to make a lovely charaz there. So yeah, I
just adore wine. And you know, the tipping point brand

(53:00):
is I'm constantly waiving the informality brand. And you know,
that's what I think we're the best at in the
world is informality and that should be celebrated. And so
the wine is kind of in a different shaped bottle.
There's an environmental charity connected to each variety, so that
you know, giving back, et cetera, to all those charities,

(53:25):
and it's been really really well received. And you know,
it's not the best wine in the world, it's just
really good quality wine. And our sort of thing is
because of the environmental charities. That's protect and serve, oh sorry,
serve and protect servant, protectassurb protect Prosecco. You are helping

(53:46):
the albatross.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
Just finally, we hear so much about the state of hospitality.
Is there light at the end of the tunnel? How
are things going?

Speaker 17 (53:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (53:55):
I think so.

Speaker 16 (53:55):
Gee, it's really been long and hard, to be honest,
and and that's that's everybody. And it's not just hospital
it's it's retail and so many other jobs as well,
or industries. You know, I think we have to celebrate
anyone that's doing well. And the farmers are doing well.
And if the farmers buy you to the you guy
might buy a fridge and the fridge guy might come

(54:16):
out for dinner. So I think we'll get there. The
change for us is a little bit, as you know, so.

Speaker 12 (54:23):
Many people working from home, so it's.

Speaker 16 (54:26):
Going to it's readjusting and and we'll get there. But
as I mentioned, we live in the best country in
the world and normally we're moaning with a glassy shard, No.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
Nad, Well, thank you so much for your time today.
The book is absolutely fantastic and we should just mention
stations by Hope McConnell are fabulous.

Speaker 16 (54:45):
She is extraordinary design and everything and these you know
books have well well you know, I wrote the words
and things. There's so many people behind this and Gary Stewart,
who's the designer of the book, and and we're actually
all getting together next week because that's when it launches.
And I actually haven't even met Hope, so but I

(55:05):
just think she He's done an extraordinary job. She's so
talented and yeah, just there's something feel good about Hooked,
that's for sure, and she's a massive part of that.

Speaker 12 (55:16):
Al Brown, thank you so much, Wicked, thanks for having
me on that.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
It was chef, seafood lover and keen fisherman. Al Brown
has fantastic book. Hooked is installs this week, but we
also have one copy to give away. All you need
to do We couldn't make this easier for you as
you just need to send your full name, address and
the word Hooked to ninety two ninety two, and don't

(55:39):
forget that Dame Gailing Preston and Dame Robin White are
with me after eleven to talk about their collaboration their
film Grace.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great breaths Use talks Eavy.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
When you're looking for a good book to read, Wickles
knows that the range of choice can be overwhelming. It's
important that you find the one that's right for you
or for the person to whom you might be giving it,
and that's where the power of recommendation comes in. That's
why Wickles offers the Top one hundred, the Kids Top
fifty and Jones Picks. The Top one hundred and the
Kid's Top fifty have been voted for by the readers

(56:18):
of New Zealand. So if thousands of people have loved
them enough to vote for them, chances are you'll love
them too. Jones Picks is a selection of books by
the wick calls head book buyer their titles She's read
and loved, and they came with Jones' highest recommendations with
the Top one hundred, Kids, Top fifty, Jones Picks plus books, games, puzzles, toys,
gorgeous stationary and more. There really is something for everyone.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
At Wick calls the Sunday Session.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Time to talk entertainment, and I'm joined by Steve Newall,
editor at flicks dot co dot n Z and of course,
good morning, Steve, Good morning. Of course, tomorrow big day
for television. The Emmys are taking place in Los Angeles.

Speaker 17 (57:12):
Indeed, the seventy seventh Emmys, full of so many great shows.
It's a really interesting time to reflect on what a
good year of television it's been.

Speaker 6 (57:22):
And you know, some.

Speaker 17 (57:24):
Would say, yourself perhaps that it compares very favorably with
Cinnamon in that regard that we make a lot of
fuss about the Oscars.

Speaker 3 (57:31):
Yes, because I was talking to my producer about it
and I was going, oh, the Emmys. I mean, you know,
if you get a Nemy's pretty impressive. But we're kind
of like, oh, it's an Emy. We're not we know,
I don't think we pay a huge amount of attention
to it, which is kind of absurd because you know,
we are making some extraordinary TV.

Speaker 17 (57:46):
Absolutely, and so just to give a bit of a
run through the lead the lead shows this year. Most
nominated is Severance with twenty seven nominations, The Penguin behind
It with twenty four, The Studio twenty three, also the
White Lotus of twenty three nominations, and The Last of
Us with sixteen. Other shows with a bunch of nums
include and Or Hacks, Adolescents, The Bear and the Pet.

(58:09):
So it's been a really good year for new shows.
For returning shows, a bunch of awards have already been
handed out, so they sort of there's a lot of
technical categories. They split the awards into two different ceremonies.
At the Creative Arts Emmys, Seth Rogan's The Studio picked
up nine awards. That's going to probably sweep this year's
Emmy's Hollywood Loves Things About Hollywood and The Studio is

(58:29):
very very good, a really great satirical comedy that kind
of makes fun of Hollywood and movies but also deeply
loves it as well, which is a nice place to land.
And some of the more familiar winners at this Credi
of Arts section were Brian Cranston won for his guest
appearance in the Studio, Julian Nicholson for Hacks, and some

(58:50):
guy called Barack Obama won an Emmy for narrating Our Oceans.
So good on mister Obama. Of the best drama series.
Such a great crop of shows and all the Diplomat,
the Last of Us, Paradise, The Pit, Severance, Slow Horses,
and the White Loaighters.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
So I mean, I love Slow Yeah, this is to
pick up one bet.

Speaker 6 (59:13):
But this is tough.

Speaker 17 (59:14):
This is really tough. I think people tipping. Severance is
a favorite also, and or Is I think has stayed
in the conversation based on political developments in the United States.
I think it seems to be quite a direct commentary
on the landscape there. But also the best comedy series
is full of awesome stuff as well. Abbott Elementary, The
Bear Hacks. Nobody wants this, only murders in the building,

(59:37):
shrinking the studio and what we do in the shadows,
tons of great viewing.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
What's just occurred to me is the best thing about
this list is if you're struggling to find something to watch,
just carry through the list because something will pop up
that you go, oh, yeah, I never watched this, so
I've never got around to doing Severance. I really should
probably put it on the list.

Speaker 17 (59:54):
And I only just finished the studio and I wish
i'd just smily through that.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
When it came out, I really really enjoyed it, you know,
I slowed down halfway through.

Speaker 18 (01:00:02):
I got it gets better though, Okay, alright, hang on.

Speaker 17 (01:00:04):
I hate people that say that, because makers think, do
your homework, eat your vegetables, and you'll get putting later on, like, no,
it should be should just all be good?

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
Would I rely on you to do this? I rely
on you to go franchisekajestic at it.

Speaker 17 (01:00:15):
It works every time. Well, here's the good news. I've
now got a slew of different recommendations for you. If
you've been following the news in Brazil this week with
the sentencing of former president and convicted coup plotter Jaia Bolsonaro,
can't reckon the enough. Two excellent documentaries on Netflix, The
Edge of Democracy from twenty nineteen. This was an OSCAR

(01:00:35):
nominated Docco and the filmmaker Petro Costa made another film,
Apocalypse in the Tropics, that was released this year. They
examined the fragility of Brazil's electoral system. It's deeply thrilling,
deeply gripping and very very sad. The First Edge of
Democracy looks at President Lula's presidency and the kind of
the forces that propelled start to propel Bolsanara into power

(01:00:59):
and apocalypse in the tropics. And this year looks at
the growing and very strong influence of Evangelical Christians in
Brazil's politics, again very responsible for bolscenario being a power
and kind of seems to conflict with the stuff he
did when he was in office. This moral segment of
society backing someone that's a couplotter and would be murderer.

(01:01:20):
Speaking of fascists, there's a new Stephen King adaptation in cinemas.
It adapts the very first novel he wrote, although it
wasn't the first one that got published. Published in nineteen
seventy nine, The Long Walk is the story of a
post war dystopian us where a group of young men
volunteer to participate in a walk where they just walk
until there's only one person left. If your speed drops

(01:01:41):
below a certain speed, bullet in the head. If you
walk off the road, bullet in the head, commit other infractions,
bullet in the head. This is lean mean tough watch
at times, really gripping, really really good film and weirdly
finds like positive things about human connection and amid this horrible,
horrible setup and one other thing on the horizon this week.

(01:02:04):
I'm just saw the news this morning. There is a
massive event at Wembley Arena this week in the UK,
put together by Brian Eno and a bunch of others
that together for Palestine. Event is being streamed on Brian
ENO's YouTube page so you can watch it for free.
The event features people like Eno himself, Damon Alban from Blur,

(01:02:26):
Hot Chip, Bennett Kumberbatch and Guy Pearson making appearances, Jamie
x X, Paloma Faith and Portoishead who we heard from
at the top of the segment, along with a whole
bunch of other stuff that we don't know about yet.
So that's happening on the seventeenth of September UK time,
i e. The eighteenth for.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
Us perfect and if we want to watch the Emmy's tomorrow,
can we watch them?

Speaker 17 (01:02:47):
Yeah, we can watch those, So then they are live
from early afternoon, but coverage here is going to be
from six to thirty pm on rialto the Sky channel
with Red Carpet from five to thirty pm fantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Thank you so much, Steve, appreciate it. Right up next,
we're going to learn how virtual reality can improve the
lives of people with dementia. It is twenty six to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks at.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
B Doctor Michelle dick And said, good morning, good morning. Okay,
you've got a science study for us.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
What have you got?

Speaker 19 (01:03:25):
I love.

Speaker 20 (01:03:26):
I don't know. Have you done virtual reality? If you
put on a headset and.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
Look, I've attempted it once or twice years ago.

Speaker 20 (01:03:32):
Yeah, it's so good.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
I think when was it an arts festival or something
that was some sort of gimmicky thing that you did
or yeah, it's kind of it. It's quite bewildering the
first time you do it. It's so sort of I would say,
it's a bit amazing, but it's also a bit off
put it. But it's probably changed lots inside London as well.

Speaker 20 (01:03:48):
It's pretty cool and if you really want to go,
I want to immerse myself. There's some virtual reality gaming
rooms that are popping up where I go and like
bash aliens with my friends in like group games, and
it's petrifying like you really feel like you're being like
hunted down by these like it's there are nice games too,
but it's good because you you immerse yourself in an
environment and your brain thinks that it's real. And sure,

(01:04:09):
shooting alien games are what I like to do. But
this new research which has come out of the American
Journal of Health Behavior has actually put virtual reality systems
on elderly patients in a care home who have dementia,
and their results have been astounding. Now, they didn't throw
aliens at them virtual reality. Instead, they created what they

(01:04:31):
called a nature escape, and so the volunteers took part
in two thirty minute virtual reality sessions each week for
a series of week where they went on nature treks
in virtual reality. They were immersed and transported to peaceful landscapes,
forest meadows, oceans, and there were little animals and plants
that they could interact with in this space. And basically,

(01:04:54):
the researchers know that nature is We all know that
if you got in nature, it's powerful, that's calming, it
has really restorative effects. But what they also know is
that many patients would dementia can't get outdoors. There just
isn't The staff ratio number to get patients out of
these institutions and get them outside to the beach in

(01:05:15):
this safe environment. So a lot of these patients, especially
if they have limited mobility, actually don't go to green
spaces and they can't enjoy the real thing.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Is it because nature comes us that makes us breathe better?

Speaker 6 (01:05:29):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
Is there a do we know whether it's nature or
or the impact it has on our what impact it
actually has on our body?

Speaker 6 (01:05:38):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
I'm trying to say, like, is it about the breathing?
Is it about I don't know.

Speaker 20 (01:05:43):
Well, what they found in this study is actually, in
these patients with dementia and many of them struggled with memory,
going virtually to a place that they hadn't been to
in a long time actually triggered really meaningful positive memory memories.
So often nature is a positive place that we've had
in our life, and so they had emotional connections of

(01:06:03):
a time that they were at the beach when they
were a child, and so it created a positive memory
and it sort of brought that back that they hadn't
been able to trigger. And so after five weeks of
these virtual nature sessions, the volunteers reported feeling more positive,
like more pleasurable, more alert, and had fewer negative emotions
such as sadness, anxiety, and anger. And they stated that

(01:06:27):
they felt that their overall quality of life had improved
and they hadn't been anywhere they just put on a
VR headset for thirty minutes twice a week. But yeah,
like I said, the real thing was they started to
recall special places from their childhood. They started to call
family holidays by the sea. So it wasn't just offering relaxation,
it was triggering these positive memories that reminded them of

(01:06:50):
positive spaces and put them in a positive space. But
like music, we hear music can have that's unimpact. And
so it's a super cute study and it's basically says,
can virtual nature help people living in dementia? And it's
a solid yes. And really think about how cheap virtual
reality and how have you had a few in these
care homes and you set up a schedule. It's not

(01:07:10):
the same as getting outside, but if you can't take
these patients outside, it's sort of the next best thing.
And off there's a glimpse into how some of these
technologies can be used in these care settings. To help
just connect and improve quality of life when the real
world isn't always accessible. And I love these studies. Virtual
reality has been shown to have so many positive effects

(01:07:30):
with pain management and patients going through like it just
goes on and on and on. I don't know why
they're not everywhere because they just seem to have so
many positive effects. So if you haven't tried on a
VIA headset and try one on. If you want to
go shoot aliens, cool, But there's also some nice fun
games you can do. Find a VIA headset place and
gaming room.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
Just spend the money. Do we all find our respite
in different ways? Michelle, Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
We'll talk next week the Sunday Session Full Show podcast
on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
It be.

Speaker 3 (01:08:01):
Mike Vender Elison, our residence chief, is with us now
with a recent pea that sort of features a product
I love, a Charritzo sausage.

Speaker 21 (01:08:14):
Isn't it amazing escually if you get the good ones?

Speaker 3 (01:08:16):
Yeah, yeah, And I do this one sort of one
tray bake with sausage and lots of roast veggies and
things like that, and it's, oh, it's just divine.

Speaker 6 (01:08:26):
You can't go wrong with it, and there's.

Speaker 21 (01:08:29):
So much flavor that comes out of you know, originating
from the Iberian peninsula. So it's both Spanish and Portuguese,
neither one really kind of state claim on it.

Speaker 6 (01:08:41):
It's kind of a bit of both, and.

Speaker 21 (01:08:42):
So traditionally fermented and kured, and then it's smoked, which
allows it to be eaten without cooking. So if you
go to the little tap of bars in Spain, you
know you'll get your Tritto sauvage served you.

Speaker 6 (01:08:56):
Warm.

Speaker 21 (01:08:56):
I guess at room temps are uncooked. It doesn't need
to be necessarily cooked, right, that's the traditional one. When
you come over here and you go to supermarkets and
you look at a Christo sausage quite off and they
are raw, So there's kind of you don't don't trust
me by saying you eat.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Them all raw?

Speaker 3 (01:09:14):
What are we going to do with ours? Today?

Speaker 21 (01:09:16):
I thought I'd make a payala, So start by. It's
gone a long recipe, but I'll kind of try and
rip through it as much as I can. So it's
ao paala with the green chili and corry ender. So
start by preing you up one hundred and eighty degrees
and then you take I take. I use a deep
cast iron pan. Pop that onto aliment, and then start
by sorting one onion that's being peeled in, diced, and

(01:09:38):
then three closed GARLICX auto that off and a little
bit of some player or and then you want to
add in the all important tats sausage. So I've got
two of those. Try and find authentic ones if you can,
ones that they've been cured, ones that it's really like
just pressing it. They're really hard at Jimmy means that
them been cured and smoke. Chop those up. Add that in,
and then it goes to the rice. So we've got
one and a half cups of long grain rice. Saute

(01:10:00):
that off, and then you want to add in some liquid.
So I've got half a cup of red wine and
then about three cup vegetable stock. Maybe just hold them
back if you need them for a little bit later.
Reduce the heat down, cook that for a little bit longer,
and then pop a lid on it, and then fire
that into the oven. It's going to be in the
oven for about thirty thirty five minutes. Pull that out

(01:10:20):
after this time. Just check that the rice is cooked.
If it's not, If it's starting to get a little
bit too dry. When you can add in a little
final bit of vegetable stock, and then I've got some
cooked prawns. Once it's cooked, pull it out, sprinkle over
the cooked prawns, and then I fire that back into
the oven for another ten minutes. Just heat those prawns through.

(01:10:41):
Once that's all done, pull it out, remove the lid,
and then I just slice some green chilies, pop that
over the top with some fresh grander and some lemon wedges.

Speaker 3 (01:10:53):
To good, mouth's watering just the thought of it.

Speaker 21 (01:10:56):
Yeah, all that flavor, all that flavor, That sausage runs
right through that entire dirt. So as the sausage really
is the hero.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
So if you would like that recipe, you'd like to
try a little bit of the Trizzo sausage, I just
head to Newstalk zb dot co dot m z ford
slash Sunday. Of course you can look at good from
scratch as well.

Speaker 4 (01:11:19):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
There is a growing interest in the longevity movement, which
views aging as a treatable condition rather than just a
natural decline. So long to attitudes like you know, growing
old gracefully. Anyway, What does it take to improve your
biological age and lengthen your health span. We're going to
talk about that next here in Well Being.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
Grab Recover.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and Winkles for
the best selection of gras used talk zedb.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
Well in this time and I'm joined by netropath Eron o'harrick.
Good morning, Good morning. We are going to talk about
longevity and the longevity movement. Is it about living longer?
Is it about living longer?

Speaker 22 (01:12:00):
Well, yeah, it's more around living longer well and improving
health spans actually the years you have that have good
health because we really want to be able to live life,
enjoy life, and have the most out of that. And
there's been a massive movement over particularly the last five
years around longevity and how do we improve our longevity
so we can live longer, you know. And then there's

(01:12:23):
the Netflix documentary of You Can Live Forever and supposedly.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
You've got all the tech bros you need a small
fortune to you know, compare themselves to their sixteen year
old sons.

Speaker 22 (01:12:33):
Well some of them are spending millions supposedly to for longevity.
But is the research there And the answer is no,
Like a lot of what they're trying out is really
just an experiment on themselves. And you know it's a
study of one you want to be.

Speaker 3 (01:12:47):
A human guinea pig. Someone will appreciate it down the line,
I suppose.

Speaker 22 (01:12:51):
Questionable, Yeah, And I guess that's where we don't know
how well these different options work and whether they actually
do improve longevity. That is totally questionable. When it comes
to longevity, it's really looking at three concepts, extending lifespan,
extending health span, and also reversing the hall marks of aging,

(01:13:14):
and how we can do that and the factors that
really are involved in longevity. A big proportion of it
is actually genetic. When you look at the studies, twenty
five percent about is longevity is to do with your genetics.
So if you have good genes, you're more likely to
live longer. You can't change those. You can do things
that obviously we're going to help to improve your genetics,

(01:13:36):
particularly looking at the talomere or the ends of the chromosomes,
which is where most of the supplements that are out
there on the market are based around things that are
going to help with improving the talomes.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
So very quickly is the most basic way to work
out where you've got good geneses if your parents have
managed and grandparents have managed to live longer absolutely and without.

Speaker 22 (01:13:56):
Disease, And there's no guarantee, but no absolutely. If your
parents and grandparents all have lived to a very long age,
then genetically you're more likely they love longer. You could
do genetic testing. Whether you want to spend a lot
of money to look at what you genes are like
questionable whether that's going to be helpful to you or not.
The other factor around longevity is environments that you live in,

(01:14:18):
particularly air quality and lifestyle as well. Like you can
do a lot with just your basic lifestyle. You don't
need expensive supplements. You need to look at what can
you do that it can actually help you live longer,
And that comes down to your healthy diet, your exercise,
your quality sleep, avoiding harmful habits like smoking and excessive
alcohol drinking, and keeping also those social connections that's such

(01:14:42):
a big pardon. Improving quality of life and longevity as well.

Speaker 3 (01:14:45):
Would be quite fascinating to know whether on average our
biological age is higher or lower than our chronological age.
I would say my biological age might be slightly higher yeah,
and how they calculate that.

Speaker 22 (01:14:57):
Like I'm like, oh, that's such an interesting concept of
chronological age based on your age and how many years
you've been alive, and the biological age, which is really
something just scientifically calculated. Whether it's actually proving anything to you,
whether you're going to live longer or not, that's questionable
in itself, but it is something that people are really
keen on looking at that they are they actually biologically

(01:15:19):
younger than their chronological age, But whether that's actually helpful
to you, I would really question that. I think we're
better off focusing on what can we do to live
our best, healthiest life.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
I know my psychological age is a lot lower than
my chronological and I think.

Speaker 22 (01:15:35):
It's about all those things we can do that actually
just improve our overall health, not just focusing on the
longevity side of things, so healthy lifestyle, quality, sleep, managing stress,
social connections, avoiding anything that's harmful for our body like
smoking and pollution. And I think when it comes to supplements,
be mindful what you're buying. Like the big things that
I see in the market, especially at the moment, are

(01:15:56):
things like minn which is such a controversial one, particularly
for someone like me who's science based, because for me,
the science is still in its experience mental phase and yeah,
might be amazing, but also it's still got a lot
of development to come out. Whether it will make you
live longer, I think that they're still research needed in there.

(01:16:18):
I don't think anyone's taken it for a long amount
of time and seeing them live to one hundred and twenty.
But maybe that will be the next.

Speaker 3 (01:16:24):
Thing, maybe one day. Thank you so much, erin something
to think about. It is six to eleven the.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio, empowered by News Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
At b.

Speaker 3 (01:16:37):
Thank you very much to the hundreds of people who
entered in our competition to win Al Brown's book Hooked.
I am pleased to say Rich Blair, you are the
recipient of the book. We will get that out to you,
so thank you very much for your text. Up next,
Dame Gailing Preston and Dame Robin White to join me
to talk about their film Grace. It's screened at the
New Zealand International Film Festival. It is now being released

(01:16:59):
in cinemas. It's absolutely worth seeing on the big screen.
They are with me next talk about how This film
helped Gaileen recover from a heat injury. It is a
Street to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
You don't.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wickles for
the best election of great Reeds used talks.

Speaker 4 (01:18:01):
It be.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
Good morning when it's been all go on the sporting front.
So coming up this hour, we're going to talk to
Piney about his thoughts on the rugby and rugby league.
Joan has the new book from Each Prey Love author
Elizabeth Gilbert, and it might not be what you expect,
and Megan with some tips for online travel planning.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
The Sunday Session.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
When two legends of the art world join forces, you
can be sure the result is going to be something special.
And this was certainly the case when one of our
greatest living artists, Dame Robin White, met celebrated filmmaker Dame
Galine Preston. Together they have produced a film based on
Robin's work. It's called Grace, A Prayer for Peace.

Speaker 19 (01:18:49):
I think the paintings are a bit like us human beings.

Speaker 15 (01:18:52):
We're born with what we have and we have to
head out into the world with it. And make the
most of it, you know, and that's our life.

Speaker 19 (01:19:03):
I have an idea. I'm in love with that idea.

Speaker 15 (01:19:07):
I want to see what it looks like, so I
have to make the work.

Speaker 19 (01:19:12):
If it's good at one, go away, No, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
That's why I'm here.

Speaker 3 (01:19:21):
I am delighted to have both Dame Gailen Preston Dame
Robin White in the studio. It is lovely to see
you both.

Speaker 19 (01:19:26):
Good morning morning.

Speaker 3 (01:19:30):
The two of you knew of each other, but you
hadn't actually met. Is that right before twenty twenty one
when you met at Rita Angus exhibition.

Speaker 19 (01:19:40):
We knew of each other's work.

Speaker 23 (01:19:42):
Yeah, we knew one another through our work, but we
didn't know that. And then when we ran into one
another at the Rita Angus exhibition, we kind of met
in the flesh, but that's when we really knew one another.

Speaker 3 (01:19:56):
And then how soon after did you bring up this idea,
gailing of making a film about Robin?

Speaker 23 (01:20:01):
Well, pretty much immediately, but I heard the words come
out of my mouth, and I knew that I couldn't
do it because I had a head injury and I'd
given up filmmaking. But somehow, a year later, I felt better,
and we just grew the film.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
We grew.

Speaker 23 (01:20:19):
We grew it, didn't we That's right.

Speaker 19 (01:20:21):
I figured that, you know, Gailen, with her reputation, she'd
have something interesting to say. She'd have a way of
doing things that I felt would be useful, and so yeah,
we ended up having a conversation eventually to actually really discuss,
well are we going to do it and what is
it going to be? And that's when we both agreed
that it would be more purposeful to base it on

(01:20:43):
the idea of women artists working collaboratively.

Speaker 3 (01:20:47):
And it does feel like a collaboration between the two
of you.

Speaker 23 (01:20:50):
Oh it is, And it's interesting, you know, you say
collaboration and you think everybody's talking about everything. But actually
Robin didn't see the film until the test screening, which
is very eight to see a film where you're featured.
But I've learned a lot about collaboration in terms of

(01:21:13):
the process from Robin making this film, because you know,
when you make a burg artwork like the Mussi that
are featured on the film, I mean they're huge and
they involve a small group of artists who are actually
doing very particular work and everybody's doing their bit, but

(01:21:35):
it's kind of like this person owns their idea. This
person owns their idea, and the collaboration is a conversation
that's really about all sorts of things. I mean, we
didn't sit around talking about the film. We sat around
talking about people we knew from art school, people we admired.

(01:21:56):
We talked about our attitude to the world. That's what
we talked about.

Speaker 3 (01:22:01):
That's reflected in the film. I mean, there is a comfort,
Robin and I don't know if you felt comfortable knowing
that you were being filmed, but it definitely felt like
the two of you were comfortable with each other, which
creates this quite intimate experience for the viewer. How did
you feel about that?

Speaker 19 (01:22:17):
I felt for me it was a creative experience, and
Gaileen was part of it, as were all of the
other people at that time that you see in the film.
And as Gaileen mentioned, every person comes with their own expertise,
their own capacities to do things, and it's a matter

(01:22:39):
of arranging things so that everybody makes their contribution and
it's all respected. It might be the person who's incredibly
good in making sure that we're all watered and fed
at the right time, in the right way, in a
way that keeps us going. It might be the person

(01:22:59):
who can sing, play the guitar or something. I mean,
every contray as a vital element of the ultimate success
of whatever the project is.

Speaker 23 (01:23:12):
We did a lot of singing. Actually, yeah, you know, singing, singing.
It's part of the work in which I think you
see in the film Robin whistles while she works.

Speaker 19 (01:23:20):
Anyway, Yeah, did you know that, Well, I might whistle
or sing or something.

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
I found it a great privilege to watch you work, Robin,
to see your methods, the materials you use, the processes
you go through. And I don't think we get that
opportunity to do that with a lot of artists. And
I thoroughly enjoyed that. Did you mind sharing that.

Speaker 19 (01:23:47):
No, not at all. You know, we're a group of
people working together, and there is a sort of a fellowship,
a kind of natural spirit of fellowship. So it wasn't
just us. There were people walking in and out off
the street we were in for much of our working together.
We're on a hung more working in a studio which

(01:24:09):
was a shop once, so big window shop front. People
would see us and walk in and you know there'd
be a they get conversation and the cup of.

Speaker 23 (01:24:20):
Tea or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:24:21):
You know.

Speaker 19 (01:24:22):
So no, it was a very relaxed and joyful, but
the work went on. It didn't stop. It just it's
as if that spirit of coming and going, of joyfulness,
of being a part of that humming society, that humanity,
that sense of humanity, energized the work.

Speaker 23 (01:24:43):
And I mean when we're filming in Robin's studio and
she's freehand drawing the wire netting on a monoprint on
a terribly thin piece of paper that's already had an
expert calligrapher right on it as a collaborative work, I mean,

(01:25:04):
my heart was in my mouth.

Speaker 3 (01:25:06):
I was a bit nervous at that point too. I
love the confidence.

Speaker 23 (01:25:10):
Yeah, yeah, total confidence.

Speaker 3 (01:25:12):
So did you always know that you didn't want to
create sort of a biopack, you didn't want to do
a biography of Robin. I think this idea of capturing
her at work over this period of time, working on
a couple of projects was a really fascinating way of
giving us an insight.

Speaker 2 (01:25:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:29):
Well it's a gift, Yeah, it is a gift.

Speaker 23 (01:25:32):
I can't think of many times. I can't think of
one actually where you really see I think there's a
film where you see Elton John writing of song, but
that act of creation in the moment to film it
is just pure pleasure for me. And Robin is an

(01:25:54):
un self conscious subject. And also biopicsla the artist's life
and all of that. It's about the artist's work. The
artist's work is why we we love them, and we're
so sort of individually focused on the biography of the artist.
I mean, you're talking to someone who's written an autobiography,

(01:26:15):
so I'm sort of working against myself here. But the work,
the work's the thing, and of.

Speaker 3 (01:26:21):
Course we learn so much about the life through the
work anyway, of course, that's what that's what comes out.
I mean, I feel like we should be making more
of an effort to capture some of our artists on screen, Gayalen.

Speaker 23 (01:26:35):
Yeah, working, yes, working, creating.

Speaker 3 (01:26:38):
Their own words, talking about their work and things like that.

Speaker 23 (01:26:41):
And we have got a very very small catalog of
television and film around artists. It's improved recently with the
recent documentaries over the last two or three years, seeing
more documentaries for cinema about artists, But we don't have

(01:27:03):
a tradition of doing it so in each out, so
I get whipping out the OSMO.

Speaker 3 (01:27:09):
Now, tell me about the camera and how this documentary
was filmed, because we're sitting in the studio. You've got
this tiny little camera. You've got this gadget, and of
course I immediately want one. It looks absolutely fantastic. It's
a very tiny stand with a lens on top. It
folds down into a very small looking spongebag you could say,
toilet trees bag. And you shot part of the film

(01:27:31):
on this. That is That's not an intimidating thing to
have in front of your face when you're shooting the documentary,
is it?

Speaker 4 (01:27:37):
No?

Speaker 23 (01:27:37):
I just filmed as saying that Robin is an adventurous
person and travels the world, you know, Kerabas, Japan, wherever
she's off, and so I've had a very adventurous time
doing that too. Robin wrings me up and she goes,
I've had an email and I know when you say

(01:28:00):
that to me, Robin, that it's an adventure and I'm
going to go. So this is a film, and film's
expensive and then you've got to raise the money and
it's difficult. But I went to Japan with Robin, and
before we left, I was trying to work out what
camera I could take because I'm not as young as

(01:28:21):
I used to be, and even a small sony, it's
quite hard for me to caunt around. And one of
the cinematographers who shot some of the film with us,
Bruce Foster, he did some research and he suggested an
Osmo Pocket three. Now none of us had actually heard

(01:28:42):
of that, and we only found it on the internet.
It was very new, but off I went to Japan
with the Osmo Pocket three. So if you see the film,
you've seen the film. I shot most of what happens
in Japan and all of what happens in care of
us with my little Osmo Pocket three, which means we're

(01:29:07):
in a situation and people start singing and it sounds
so beautiful, and I can just rummage in my handbag
and start filming, and there's a lot of the film
that wouldn't have been captured otherwise.

Speaker 3 (01:29:21):
It's incredible.

Speaker 18 (01:29:23):
Robin.

Speaker 3 (01:29:23):
I loved watching the progression of your work, the changes
and the inspiration over the years and things. But what
I was really inspired by is just how you are
still so curious, how you go on these adventures. I mean,
I just kind of went, this is the way we
should live life. You're constantly learning and doing new things.

Speaker 19 (01:29:42):
I think that's the thing, constantly learning. And what do
you learn if you keep doing the same thing over
and over or you decide it's time to just sort
of shut the studio and put your feet up. I mean,
I just you know, what would I do? This is
what I am. Same with Gaileen being an artist. It's
not a job. It's what you are and you can't

(01:30:03):
help it. There's no retirement plan.

Speaker 3 (01:30:07):
I'm pleased to hear that. And Gayleen, you know you
didn't think you would make another film after the head injury,
and you've had this experience, You've created this beautiful piece
of art. Back on the horse.

Speaker 23 (01:30:16):
Here, Well it's been it's healing, so it means I'm
back in the world. I'm engaged.

Speaker 14 (01:30:22):
You know.

Speaker 23 (01:30:22):
Part of having concussion is that you have a thing
that's called disassociation. It's actually on the list of symptoms.
And so my sister, my sister jan who's done the
music for the film, she got really worried about me
because I said, oh, I don't care if I never
make another film. And she said, oh, gays really sick.

(01:30:45):
She thinks she's never going to make another film. So
she recognized that. You know, you've got a bent piece
of wiring in your brain and once it's turned on,
you can resist, but it won't do you any good.
You better just join on.

Speaker 3 (01:31:00):
I love it. What have you both learned about each
other and your creative processes and things? How you inspired
each other, Robin, how'se Galing inspired you?

Speaker 19 (01:31:08):
You know, you don't want to think you're all alone
when you get to our age. There's not that many
of you left who remember the fifties and know the
same songs. So it's a very encouraging. It's very encouraging
to have a friend who has had very similar experiences.
I just really treasure our friendship.

Speaker 3 (01:31:29):
And you, Gaillen well.

Speaker 23 (01:31:31):
For me being able to work to record Robin's process.
And Robin and I are aligned and a lot of
our life beliefs. You know, it's not just political beliefs,
but it's actually what we care about in terms of,
you know, why are we on this planet? What are
we therefore? So it isn't just making art, it's actually

(01:31:53):
making up that communicates and with a film I can
amplify what Robin has to say, so it gives me
a way to say what I want to say. That's
kind of better than if I just said it.

Speaker 3 (01:32:09):
Gaaling Preston, Robin White, thank you so much for coming in.
Really appreciate it.

Speaker 23 (01:32:13):
You're welcome.

Speaker 19 (01:32:14):
It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 3 (01:32:15):
That was two absolute great to our seeing Dame Robin
White and Dame Galen Preston. Their film Grace A Prayer
for Peace is in cinemas this Thursday. The panel is next.
It's twenty one past eleven News Talks AB Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:32:28):
With Style the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Winkles
for the best selection of great Breeds News Talks.

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Speaker 2 (01:33:27):
The Sunday session.

Speaker 7 (01:33:29):
Okay, it is.

Speaker 3 (01:33:29):
Time for the panel now, and I'm joined by managing
director at eight one eight Chris Henry. Good morning, Chris,
al Kyoda, and also journalist and editor Joe McCarroll. Good morning, Joe,
Good morning, Francis going chras So this s morning, we
spoke to the Washington DC bureau chief for The Guardian,
Dave Smith, and we were just sort of getting a
bit of a sense about how Americans are feeling post

(01:33:51):
the killing, the assassination of Charlie Kirk this week. And
you know, we were talking about the fact that you know,
America is losing the ability to exercise reasonable disagreement or
disagree agreeably or disagree better, whatever you want to call it,
and look at something that we are also experiencing here
in New Zealand. But are you concerned about the violent

(01:34:14):
nature of politics and America?

Speaker 6 (01:34:16):
Joe?

Speaker 24 (01:34:17):
I'm absolutely concerned, and I think if you're not, you know,
really think more deeply about it.

Speaker 6 (01:34:23):
I think it's not even a rise.

Speaker 24 (01:34:25):
It's a normalization of political violence and political assassinations. And
I mean Charlie Kirk's discourse that gun debts were part
of the price you pay for having the right to
carry arms. It's such, it's wild. You know, you hear

(01:34:46):
that and you think, surely not. But I think everyone,
everyone should be deeply concerned.

Speaker 3 (01:34:55):
What about you, Chris Oh.

Speaker 25 (01:34:57):
I totally agree with your points, Joe. I think it's
coming top down, and I think that's the terrifying thing.
And the normalization of the refret coming down from the top,
both in America and then also here locally, is deeply worrying.

Speaker 6 (01:35:12):
My only hope, and perhaps.

Speaker 25 (01:35:13):
It's a bit Pollyanna of me, is that this will
be cyclical and we will swing back the other way.
In due course, but you know, those are marginalized communities
and those that are affected by this. It's not a
good time to be alive.

Speaker 3 (01:35:25):
No, And you know, David was saying this morning that
he doesn't believe that under this president that that it
will change, that the sort of political weaponizing of a
tragedy like this, you know, will improve.

Speaker 24 (01:35:40):
And I think that's you know, yeah, yeah, I do
think it would help if the president weren't happily pouring
gasoline on the finance.

Speaker 2 (01:35:49):
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:35:49):
I mean, I think if you look at the response
from god should we call them old school you know,
the old school politicians and previous presidents and things, that
is kind of the response we wanted, or that we
were used to. Maybe maybe that's maybe it's our problem, Joe,
Maybe we're just not used to kind of being able
to push back against this kind of new rhetoric that

(01:36:10):
we hear.

Speaker 24 (01:36:11):
Well, I mean, I think it is our problem in that,
you know, I think we've got a long way towards
re establishing a rational discourse. Well, we don't agree, but
we are able to communicate. If everyone was able to
step back and recognize how manipulated they are being by
disinformation systems that where content is being intentionally created with

(01:36:34):
designed to elicit a particular response and designed to drive division.
And people will be listening to this and they will think, Luckily,
I wouldn't fall for that. But I think we are
all far more vulnerable to that kind of targeted misinformation
and disinformation and selected information.

Speaker 2 (01:36:53):
And you know, the absolute aim.

Speaker 24 (01:36:56):
Of these external operators is a reduction in social cohesion,
and that is what we are seeing. And you know,
I would say, unless you literally know the person who's
created the content online or posted or tweeted, or exed
or commented, I would stop and think, is this an
attempt to manipulate you politically or emotionally?

Speaker 3 (01:37:18):
Well, that's the thing, isn't it, Chris. You can find
evidence to back up your beliefs somewhere on the Internet.

Speaker 2 (01:37:25):
You know, you absolutely can.

Speaker 25 (01:37:27):
And I mean, we live in such an echo chamber
these days. You know, long gone are the days where
we all sat down and wort the six pm us
where it was arguably fair and balanced. Now you find
the people that are telling you the news that you
want to hear, and then our algorithms are serving us
the rest. I mean, it is very hard. You think
you're a smart person and you can kind of find
the space, but when all the things are yelling around

(01:37:48):
you and they're saying a particular thing, it is hard
sometimes to work out what is right and what is wrong,
and very easy to find people that believe the same
thing as you and for that to become gospel.

Speaker 3 (01:37:59):
Because Joe I found a study that was undertaken by
the University of a Tiger, and they released the information
last year, and it found a durbing rate of abuse
and threats of violence towards New Zealand politicians. I think
that fifty four MPs took part in the research. Social
media attacks were experienced by ninety six percent. Forty percent
of those attacks included threats of physical violence, fourteen percent

(01:38:21):
sexual violence. And of course, you know, we've heard from
politicians themselves about how women experience, you know, misogyny and
misogynistic abuse and things. Are you concerned about, you know,
things becoming potentially violent here in New Zealand. I mean,
I'd like to think we're not going to get to
that point, but I don't know whether I'm being acutely naive.

Speaker 24 (01:38:42):
I think we have a real tendency to be naive
about this, and that's because some of these real world's
implications we're not actually seeing them here in New Zealand
to the same extent. But what I would say is
what I am seeing in terms of the content I consume,
it's probably radically different to what my teenage nieces and
if you are seeing. And so I would look at

(01:39:04):
what younger people are seeing online, and I think we
are so much more vulnerable to those sorts of what
you might have called sticks and stones, hollow words. They
will translate into real world actions, and when that happens,
we will say, I can't believe that happened here.

Speaker 3 (01:39:23):
Okay, Chris, We don't want to talk specifically to Tom
Phillips and the injunction which is currently in place over
information about that case, but some of it has been
reported on the internet, and the same thing happened in
the Grace Melane's case, and suppression orders are in place
for a particular reason, but they're kind of becoming futile

(01:39:46):
because of social media, international publications. Then publishing information. Should
we try Should we keep trying to hold the line
when it comes suppression? Is that is that important? Or
is it futile?

Speaker 25 (01:40:03):
I couldn't see any further on the fence about this one.
I know personally from the way that I've been consuming
the Internet, the more you watch about the non suppressed information,
the more it comes to you, the more mainstream it feels.
It's I also find that people around you have come
from those things where peop want to tell you things
that they have seen or they haven't seen. I think
when there is a situation like this, where there are

(01:40:25):
children involved and there is obviously a lot going on,
it is really important to be having those suppression orders.
But the ability to execute them, I mean, it's only
a matter of time, really, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:40:37):
It's getting pretty tricky, isn't it, Joe.

Speaker 24 (01:40:40):
All it is, I mean, and actually it has been
tricky for a while.

Speaker 2 (01:40:42):
I mean, this is a few years ago.

Speaker 24 (01:40:45):
Now, and I'm going to talk quite generally about it,
so I don't breach any suppression orders. But there was
a public figure who was accused of quite an unpleasant,
a particularly unpleasant crime, whose name was suppressed, and I
didn't know who it was, and I just Google search
something like celebrity court case and accidentally hit image instead
of you know, answers, and it actually brought up a

(01:41:08):
photo of the person whose name I didn't know. I
hadn't entered, and so I'm like, the algorithm is connecting
all the dots and it has no respect for suppresion orders.
And I am entirely confident there is a solution that
exists and could be rolled out, and the technology is
already at that level. But I am very cynical about
where the big tech will come to the table to

(01:41:30):
take responsibility for their role here and discuss what that
solution might look for.

Speaker 3 (01:41:34):
We've also got to be pretty proactive about it ourselves.
You've got to make sure that you're sending all these
suppression orders to all these global media platforms. They need
to be informed about it. I mean, we talk about
the geo blocking, but that doesn't seem to work because
you've got one and six kiwi's living overseas, so you
know your daughter or your cousin or your mate will
be texting you going gosh, I've just seen this, you know,
So that doesn't work either.

Speaker 24 (01:41:54):
Anyone who's trying to content any of the major sort
of social media companies will It's like shouting at clouds
what you hear back and who you connect to and.

Speaker 3 (01:42:04):
I think that's another part of the problem. But we've
also seen this, Joe. You know, we do need Google
another platforms to be more responsible, but you know, they're
not bound by the rules and laws that regular media are.
And for example, going back to Charlie kirkping shop that
has been widely shared on social media, I make decisions
that I'm not going to view that stuff that people

(01:42:25):
have said to me. It just popped up like I
don't I didn't really, I didn't go looking for it.
I couldn't control that it's there in front of me.

Speaker 24 (01:42:34):
It's being surfaced to you by an algorithm that promotes
the content that is disturbing or divisive. And I mean, honestly,
it does make you feel pretty depressed about the state
of the world.

Speaker 3 (01:42:52):
Just do what I do, guys, Just get off the
social media. We don't need the social media. Thank you
so much. I know, Chris, I'm sorry. It's not what
a publicist wants to hear. Chris, Henry and Joe McCarroll
love you to talk to you. Thank you very much
for your time this morning. Coming up next Jason Pine
Talk Sports.

Speaker 1 (01:43:10):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on news talks be.

Speaker 3 (01:43:22):
Coming up at the day Jason parm with Weekend Sport,
and he joins me.

Speaker 18 (01:43:25):
Now, good morning, good morning.

Speaker 3 (01:43:27):
How about those black ferns.

Speaker 18 (01:43:29):
Hey, amazing, amazing from the black Ferns. Although I was
a bit worried early on when they went behind, to thought,
goodness me, surely not them as well. But no, thankfully
the black ferns provide us, provided us with a nice
little end to what was otherwise a fairly a challenging
night of sport.

Speaker 23 (01:43:49):
Do you know what.

Speaker 3 (01:43:49):
I woke up at about four o'clock this morning and
I couldn't get back to sleep. I thought, I just
have to check the score. I've just I've got to
have some good sporting news, like you know. It was
just rustic got the It's yeah, I just needed some
good news. It was very pleased to see. But I
am a bit worried about Canada.

Speaker 18 (01:44:05):
Yeah, I am too. All Australia, who they beat, aren't great.
To be fair, I don't know whether you can take
Canada's rather convincing when over Australia and say well, hey
they look they're in the semi finals. Yes, of course
they're going to be a challenge for us. I've still
got us beating them, you know, and and going through
to the final against probably England, although those other two

(01:44:25):
quarter finals have to be played tomorrow. But I look
just watching the Black Ferns, the way that they have
cohesion and togetherness and they're playing well. They're playing well
the last couple of games. I've bout forty on Ireland,
forty last night on South Africa. Yeah, I think we should.
I think we should feel fairly optimistic about the Black fans.

Speaker 3 (01:44:45):
And how good was Leroy Carter in his debut last night?

Speaker 20 (01:44:49):
I enjoyed it.

Speaker 18 (01:44:49):
That's the spirit. That's the spirit, Francesca, that's the spirit.
He was good. Look, I think I think you know
a rare shining light Axu you I thought he had
a goodboot, but goodness me that well. Look, first things first,
let's give credit to South There absolutely outstanding second half

(01:45:10):
of rugby as good I reckon yep, as I've seen
from a visiting team to this country. Ever, they were
unstoppable in the second half. But and sometimes that happens.
You know, they beat anybody last night, so there's nothing
to be worried about there. What we do need to
worry about is the manner of the defeat. Capitulation is

(01:45:32):
the word that comes to mind. Thirty six unanswered points
and at the end, it just looked as though guys
didn't want to be out there in a Black jersey,
and you can't have that when you play for the
All Blacks.

Speaker 3 (01:45:42):
And look, this might be a slightly controversial thing to say,
but I think when you're being interviewed at the end
of the game, and Laura McGoldrick is very good at
what she does and she tried very hard, but I
expect a little bit more from an All Blacks captain
rather than just meaningless cliches and maybe a bit of
a you know, should have been a little bit more

(01:46:03):
appreciation of the team that they've just played and maybe
just have a moment to actually say something.

Speaker 18 (01:46:10):
Yeah, I don't know that. I don't know that public
speaking is necessarily Scott Barrett's strong point, and that you know,
comes across often and I think people, perhaps you know,
find it hard to warm to him in the same
way that they've warmed to previous All Blacks captains or
others within this team because of that. And look, he
is clearly well respected inside that playing group. But I

(01:46:31):
think we as all Blacks fans. You're right, Francesca need
our All Blacks captain to be honest with us after
a game. So we were outplayed. I think one of
the phrases he used, we couldn't quite get the job done. Look,
that's miles away from what it is. A little bit
of a statement, wasn't it It is? And so look,
so that's that's another one to throw into the melting pot.

(01:46:52):
I just that they lost the aerial battle again. They
knew what was coming. They just can't seem to find
a way to win the aerial battle. They were, they
were better at scrum time, the lineouts were a shambles
in the second half. We missed forty six tack. There's
a lot to unpack here and we can be fact
based about this and solutions based about it, which is

(01:47:12):
what I want to be after midday and usually there's
'by audience come to the party on that. They're pretty
articulate when it comes to their thinking around the rugby team.
I said a couple of weeks ago, we shouldn't have
need jerk reactions when they lose a game as they
did against Argentina, and we shouldn't we shouldn't have a
you know, no one's going to sack the coach. We're
not stacking the coach here. But we can unpack some
problems and try and find some solutions. Jason Ryan's on

(01:47:33):
the show after Miday accidentally with his take. I get
the feeling he'll own it and then we can open
the lines and have a therapy session.

Speaker 3 (01:47:40):
Sounds really good, Jason, looking forward to it. Weekend Sports
kicking off at midday. It's eighteen to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:47:46):
It's a Sunday session full show podcast on iHeartRadio, powered
by newstalksb Travel with Windy Woo Tours Where the World
Is Yours book Now.

Speaker 3 (01:47:58):
Joining us now is Meghan Singleton, blogger at large dot com.

Speaker 26 (01:48:01):
Good morning, Good morning, Francesca.

Speaker 3 (01:48:03):
And you've got some tips for us if we're planning
our travel online.

Speaker 6 (01:48:08):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 26 (01:48:09):
So we've touched on this before. I use Facebook groups
when I'm going somewhere and I want to find out
things to do. Maybe I jump on these new groups.
I've joined them, and I see what people are saying about,
you know, where to go for a nice birthday dinner
or things like that. But today I wanted to talk
about another way to use them, and that is for

(01:48:29):
up to date, real time news. So, for example, there's
been lots of flooding in Bali last week, and so
if you were off to Bali, you might be thinking,
oh my goodness, what's semaniac like? You know, we supposed
to be going there tomorrow. So this is exactly what
I did. I used this as an example. I jumped on,
I found some Bali Facebook groups, I joined them. I

(01:48:50):
started scrolling through. Don't need to ask your own questions,
you can just scroll through. Sure enough, I've found out
locals are there right now saying Nope, Semenyac's all good,
Leggy Ann was really flooded, but that will have subsided
in a couple of days. So I just thought that's
a really handy tip for people, because it's hard sometimes
to find on the ground and foe just when you're

(01:49:12):
about to go somewhere, if you hear like the Hawaii
Big Island volcano that's going off right now, or the
mosquitoes really bad in Fiji right now. So these are
all the things you can use Facebook groups for.

Speaker 3 (01:49:24):
But the other thing, too, Megan, is if you do
just want to double check, you can ask that question,
you know, look, just just wanting to know, you know,
right now, what's the situation or what's that situation?

Speaker 26 (01:49:34):
And people are really generous, and I jump in with
comments where people ask things that I know the answer
to as well. People are really generous with their time.
And you were just talking about algorithms. I use also
the algorithms in my favor. I know that they try
to manipulate me, so I manipulate it back. So let's
say I want to find a green sundress to take
with me somewhere. I will type that in on Facebook

(01:49:56):
and I'll find some shops selling green sundresses. I'll have
a bit of a look. Then before you know it,
my whole feed is filled with new shops I've never
heard of selling sundresses. So you can use it as well.

Speaker 3 (01:50:08):
Oh that that's really interesting kind of approach there. I
hadn't really thought about. Well, yeah, I mean I suppose
I just google it. Is it the same as googling green?

Speaker 6 (01:50:18):
No?

Speaker 26 (01:50:18):
True, Well, googling you'll get the shops you might have
heard of, But I just find on Facebook there's businesses
I've never heard of, Like, for example, I need to
buy a bottle of port as a gift for somebody,
So I just used it now and there Who knew
there were all these kinds that they've already just come
up this morning for me to now go and find.

Speaker 3 (01:50:37):
I love it down another rabbit hole. Excellent tip. Thank
you very much, Meghan. Appreciate that. You can find more
from Megan at blogger at large dot com. It's twelve
to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:50:47):
Books with wiggles for the best election of Greek Reads.

Speaker 3 (01:50:53):
Joan mackenzie, Good morning, Good morning. Tell me about Fulfillment
by Lee Cole.

Speaker 27 (01:50:57):
It's a book about families, and you know, the dynamics
and families are often so interesting, which is the case
with this one, which is the story of two half brothers,
one of whom is very successful. He's an academic in
New York City, recently married to a young woman and
things are going pretty well. And his brother is he's
less secure of his place in the world. He works

(01:51:19):
in fulfillment centers. I'm thinking the kind of place that
Amazon has. And they meet up at their mother's house
in Kentucky, where the sibling hostilities and rivalries really come
to the fore. And so you've got the successful one
with the wife, and you've got the less successful guy

(01:51:39):
who really doesn't know what he wants to do. Well,
he does, actually he wants to become a screenwriter, except
he's never actually written the screenplay, and he comes under
a lot of criticism from his half brother because he's
not successful. Meantime, there's this relatively new wife hovering in
the background, and the dynamics between the brothers and the
wife really start to come to a head and potentially

(01:52:01):
with quite devastating consequences. So it's a book about families
and brotherhood and the sibling rivalry. There's a bit about
class in there, but really what I thought was that
it's about ordinary people living really ordinary, messy lives, as
we all do, and they're so interesting to read about.

Speaker 3 (01:52:18):
Absolutely something we can relate to. Somebody else who's had
a really interesting life is Elizabeth Gilbert.

Speaker 27 (01:52:24):
She certainly has.

Speaker 6 (01:52:26):
Now.

Speaker 27 (01:52:26):
She'll be known to a lot of listeners for her
book Eat, Pray, Love, which was one of the biggest
selling memoirs of all time. I think since then she's
had what might be called a troubled and somewhat tormented life.
She's published a couple of novels, but this is another
memoir and it is quite extraordinary. It's the story of
how she was married. She had a friend, a woman

(01:52:47):
who she met who was actually her hairdresser in the
East Village in New York City, and they started up
a friendship. The friend's name was Raya, and they became
very very close, and eventually Elizabeth left her husband and
they moved in together and became lovers. And soon after that,
Raya was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and became very unwell.
But the central theme of the book is about addiction.

(01:53:10):
Raya was hopelessly addicted to everything that was going and
Elizabeth is unflinching in her description of how she was
addicted to sex and love and had the most extraordinary
path towards this particular relationship, and they spiraled into this
extraordinary self destruction which nearly killed both of them. Eventually,

(01:53:31):
Raya died of her cancer, but the story about the
drugs that she was taking up until that point is extraordinary,
and Elizabeth eventually found her way to a twelve step
recovery program and is now what she calls sober and
doing very well. It's a very interesting memoir. Autobiography story
of somebody who's prepared to put nearly everything on the

(01:53:53):
line to tell you about how things meant so dangerously
wrong for them. But I also really do believe that
for anybody who's struggling with any kind of addiction, they
would find a lot in this book to give them
hope and comfort and some kind of understanding.

Speaker 3 (01:54:08):
I don't want to sound flippant here, but I thought
that Eat, Pray Love was all about sort of finding
yourself and finding peace and all this kind of thing.
And it feels like.

Speaker 27 (01:54:21):
She's been striving for that her whole life. And towards
the end of this book, she talks about how as
a child she had real trauma, and that trauma has
haunted her throughout her adult life and she's been looking
for a better way all of those years, and towards
the end of the book she finally manages to reconcile
that child and that inner person that she's been traveling

(01:54:44):
with all this time to get to a happier place. Well,
it's very brave.

Speaker 3 (01:54:48):
Yeah, that's amazing that she's opened up so much about it.
Thank you so much, Joan. It sounds fascinating. It's all
the Way to the River by Elizabeth Gilbert. The first
book we spoke about was Fulfillment by Lee Cole. Will
talk next week see.

Speaker 1 (01:54:59):
Then the Sunday Session full show podcast on my Heart
Radio powered my News Talks.

Speaker 6 (01:55:05):
I'd be.

Speaker 3 (01:55:08):
Thank you so much for joining me this morning. Thank
you so much to Carrie for producing the show. Jason
Pine is up next, looking forward to having a good
chat and coming up with some solutions to the all
Blacks lack of consistency at the moment. I know he's
looking forward to taking your calls next week on the show.
Clark Gayford on the documentary that he partly shot and produced.

(01:55:28):
You might have heard of it. It's called Prime Minister.
Really looking forward to talking to him. And look, I
don't know what you're up to this afternoon, but I'm
going to head off to the Auckland Art Gallery to
an exhibition called A Century of Modern Art. And if
you were a bit like me and you thought to
yourself when that kicked off, I've got ages till that ends.
It actually ends on the twenty eighth of September, so
you've got a couple of weeks to get in there

(01:55:49):
to enjoy that exhibition or maybe revisit it again. That
was a century of modern art at the Auckland Art Gallery.
So look you enjoy your afternoon. I look forward to
seeing you next Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:56:00):
Take care, whatever's for more from the Sunday Session with

(01:56:46):
Francesca Rudkin. Listen live to News Talks it Be from
nine am Sunday, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.

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