July 13, 2024 • 15 mins
Australian actress Rachel Griffiths has touched down on our shores to help lead the nation's newest big TV venture.
Griffiths is an executive producer - and lead actress - in Three's new comedy series Madam, which managed to bring in some awards before airing on July 4.
The series sees a married woman in small-town New Zealand start an ethical brothel, following her husband's affair with a sex worker.
Griffiths says the show offers a feminist take on the tropes associated with sex workers.
"On first glance, I've never seen this done in a way that's fresh, that's representative of how sex workers think, talk, feel.. I read it and was like - oh, we're going to get real now."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News TALKSEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Great to have you with us. I'm Francisco with you
until midday. This is the Sunday Session. Australian National treasure
Rachel Griffiths kicked off her career with the classic comedy
Muriel's Wedding in nineteen ninety four. She's nine for her
roles in Six Feet Under and Brothers and Sisters, and
now is the star and executive producer of a New
Zealand series that won two major international awards before a
(00:35):
single episode hit our screens. Madam is a bold, funny
series that follows Rachel's character mack Lee, as she discovers
her husband has been seeing a sex worker, and, instead
of being angry or upset about his infidelity, is inspired
to open her own brothel called Sweethearts, a feminist organization
where sex workers set their own terms. It's a ripe
(00:56):
idea for a comedy, and the Madam cast is full
of a who's who of New Zealand acting and Rachel
joins me, now, good morning, thank you so much for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
This is my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
How good is this show.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
What good? Is this show really good? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
It's so good? What swayed you to hit over and
be part of it?
Speaker 4 (01:19):
It's funny, you know, because I first heard about this
project playing madam, and it's at least the fifth time
I've been offered a madam in my I was probably
I did play one sex worker actually in a very
very fine British film by Honey Kureshi, but since then,
(01:44):
just really trashy madams and always to be honest, kind
of a little bit pervy, written by you know, written
from the kind of male perspective.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
I'd say so on first glance.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
I've just never seen this done in a way that
it's fresh, that is representative I think of how sex
workers think, talk, feel, not that they're a mono group.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
So I kind of read it.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
And I was like a few minutes and I was like, oh, oh, okay, okay, okay,
we're gonna get real.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Now, we're gonna get real.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
And funny because people I've know who have worked at
sex workers do have that kind of gallows humor about
just like nurses, very similar to nurses, about the way
they talk about what they do. And then I met
the team, which was amazing. I think my biggest hesitation
was Kiwi's are so funny, and I don't think of
(02:50):
myself as so funny, So that was probably that, Oh,
but do you really want me like I'm not I'm
not really funny. I'm certainly not Kiwi funny. And there
was just the sense that I was, I guess more
of the straight guy. Me and Marty kind of more
(03:12):
the straight guys. And it's the situations that are fighting
and certainly be on some cast bring.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
They sure do. We'll talk about the cast in a moment.
But you're so right about it being a fresh perspective
on the industry because it highlights why women choose to
do it as opposed to prostitutes always been sort of
portrayed as victims or you know, it kind of broadened
our minds as to why they might decide that this
is what they want to do.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, it's so true.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Like I kind of was always talking about the feminomics
of this show, and I have like my own I
guess feminomic algorithm when I'm off at anything, and it's
how far, how long? How much? And my second just
life school. But until very recently, you know, I had
(04:03):
three children marriage that was important to me in terms
of you know, Frie says, anything other three weeks you
start to kind of, you know, just not tune into
each other as much, but very much for the children.
So it was how much, you know, how long is
(04:23):
it going to take, how far away from my children
family will it take me? And how much money will
it pay? So you go, if it's really far for
not very long, for a lot of money.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
You can do it. But if it's really far for.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Not a lot of money, you know, the economics just
don't add up. And I think women who work in
the sex industry are making really similar decisions. Do I
go work seventy hour week on a minimum wage and
not be there for breakfast and you know when my
kids come home from school, or can I work two
(04:59):
days and be present provide for my family and be
present for the other five And I think it's very
rational decision.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
It doesn't matter what you do in life, does it, Rachel?
Every mother has the same conversation.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
And I think that's one of the gorgeous things about
the show is that.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
There is a kind of an unexpected.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Relatability I think for you know, working classes, middle classroom
to go, oh god, I'm having the same conversation. I'm like,
I am working too, you know, two longer hours for
too little money and not seeing my I'm not able
to be there when my children need me, and that
makes me not, you know, feel like I'm thriving or
(05:48):
the families thriving. So to take just the judgment out
of it is I think, so so great, And then
of course just the just the really this this happened
at work today elemental because I think, you know, we
we often are used to on our screen seeing sex
(06:10):
be sexy, and there's part of a reason that that
has always been since you know, the French nu Ace
cinema was a kind of legitimate pawn and you know Bridgington.
We want those things to be sexy because we're kind
of aspiring to marry Bridgington and we want that moment
of surrender. But you know, sex between two it was
(06:32):
also pretty just funny. You know, we're just mammals doing
mammally weird things to each other, you know, in the bushes,
and I think this show kind of allows us to
laugh at people's kinks and what they want to do.
We're not trying to turn the audience onto sex. Hopefully
we don't turn them off.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I think you're absolutely right though, with your character, it
is the character that the audience is going to immediate
relate to. You're it's a strong character, a very strong
central character, a lot of depth that people will relate
to that character. And then we throw you into these
scenarios as you mentioned, where there is just some pretty
hilarious things going on around you. I mean, this must
(07:14):
have been so much fun to make. Were you were
there times and you were just sort of standing there
going I can't believe we're doing this, or I can't
believe I'm standing in the middle of the scene.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
There were there were some really mental scenes, but I
think it's just the comedy chops in the ensemble, you know,
from actors, you know, like like Rema is just I mean,
you know her over there is just next level quirky
unexpected that the younger girls too, you know, the stand
(07:49):
up comed comedians and writers, and they would just always
bring up, you know, the unexpected note that no matter
how much I knew the script and had imagined the scene,
I could never imagine what some of the other actors'
choices would be and then people that I think you
(08:10):
associate maybe with more serious notes, like Martin and Danielle
and even Rob. I think you're not expecting the very
funny kind of take from them. But Rob just had
me and Stitches, as did Marty. I think Marty was
(08:32):
a bit like me, like, I'm not really funny. I
don't get cast for funny. Well, he just finds this
kind of Justin Bateman lane of the guy you want
to punch but you don't want to kill because he's
kind of cute.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
But oh my god, you grow up and he's just.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Got this really cool wheelhouse and he gets it.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Was like the end of his first day.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
He said to me, he goes, oh, this comedy it's
quite fun, isn't it. Since you're not as tired at
the end of the day, you've kind of had a
good laugh. But there were days where Martin.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Would do it's these big kind of crazy takes. I
can't and you kind of like look look to the
director to see if that was good.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
The whole crew is just falling apart laughing.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
It was new for him too.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, I mean it is the most extraordinary cast. It's
kind of like a Who's who in New Zealand acting, plus,
as you mentioned, a whole lot of really talented up
and coming actors as well. Do you see the series.
I know that the series has kind of been overseas
and in one awards and things. Do you see the
series resonating with Ossie's.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Oh? I do? I really do.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
I think, you know, both Australia and New Zealand, you know,
were built on kind of the colonizing female spirit as
much as the invading male one. But I think that
women's ingenuity and get done and can do and you know,
(10:03):
make lemons out of lemonade. It's as much Australian as
it is Kiwi. And I think I think we find
sex pretty funny too.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
You were so busy these days. How good is that?
Speaker 4 (10:19):
I don't jinx it the moment the moment I start
telling myself how you know, how piquing my career is,
or with.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
The moment the phone goes absolutely dead.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Look, I've been really, really fortunate, particularly over the last
couple of years, to kind of make my own content
and you know, executive produce on shows like this where
I get to, you know, bring bring some ideas and
thoughts to the table and and just work with really
(10:55):
amazing people on shows that I think I just I
don't know, they just feel I don't know if.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I if I'm getting.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Luckier or it's the content that's out there just is
getting more interesting in the female stories that it tells,
and and you know, having First Nations kind of lenses
on it as well, working with like Black Fellow films
over here. It's just really the last five years have
(11:23):
been the best for me, the best, the best five
years of my career from that, from who I'm getting
to collaborate with and the position I am. I guess
in that collaboration, it's not like shut up and say
your loans, Rachel, You're getting Peter shit, go to your
trailer and don't be a deeper.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Just a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, it's interesting conversation is because we've been having conversations
about women in film and television for a long time
and and and over the last couple of decades, we've
certainly seen that conversation change, and we are seeing a
lot more middle aged women in really and older in
really great roles, especially in television, which I think has
stepped up and has is presenting some of the best around.
(12:07):
But I wonder sometimes whether it's the same group of
women getting roles. It's not necessarily for all actors. There's
more opportunity, it's just for a smaller group.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
I don't think that is true, and I will say
that there's I went into television, you know, in two
thousand and the reason I did so is I have
been just working all around the world and every six
weeks kind of packing up my suitcase or eight weeks
and turning up to another part of the world alone,
(12:39):
meeting a whole bunch of new people.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
And I did kind.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Of have the language to tell myself, you know, this
isn't great. But I had made a commitment to myself
when I was I think I was. I was twenty
when I decided to become an actor, and I said,
at thirty, I'm going to I'll review it to see
how it's going.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Because you know, I'm a smart person.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
I come from a very hard working, your self useful family.
And I thought, if I'm just flopping about, not growing,
you know, I'm going to pull the plug and change
gears or change vehicles and do something else, or if
it's not working. And I found myself at thirty, you know,
with an Oscar nomination, but incredibly unhappy and this it
(13:30):
just is not It was really unhealthy for me to
just be living out of this suitcase. And I met,
you know, my manager at the time, and I said,
I think I might be done with this acting thing,
or I might just go back to Australia just to theater.
(13:51):
And he said to me, he said, I think you
should do television. And I was like, television.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
What's this television you talk of?
Speaker 4 (14:00):
And he said, well, going back to you know, Lucille Ball,
it's been the place for women to go when they're
at a point of their career, often having been a
huge stage actress or a film actress, where they want
to be in one place in race family. That's television
has always done with women, right, So I.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Got really, really lucky. But you are right that.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Representation in television has become perhaps more complicated. Very long
answer to your question, Well, I am.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So grateful that you didn't quit it thirty and so
grateful that you came back over to New Zealand to
film Madam. It's just a delight. It's exactly what you
need in the middle of winter. Just a good laugh,
great character, is loving it.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Thank you so much. Well, it's such a pleasure to
work there.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Your cruiser just next level professional and respectful and yeah, anytime.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
That was Rachel Griffiths and you can watch Madame on
TV three and three now.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rod, listen
live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News TALKSEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Great to have you with us. I'm Francisco with you
until midday. This is the Sunday Session. Australian National treasure
Rachel Griffiths kicked off her career with the classic comedy
Muriel's Wedding in nineteen ninety four. She's nine for her
roles in Six Feet Under and Brothers and Sisters, and
now is the star and executive producer of a New
Zealand series that won two major international awards before a
(00:35):
single episode hit our screens. Madam is a bold, funny
series that follows Rachel's character mack Lee, as she discovers
her husband has been seeing a sex worker, and, instead
of being angry or upset about his infidelity, is inspired
to open her own brothel called Sweethearts, a feminist organization
where sex workers set their own terms. It's a ripe
(00:56):
idea for a comedy, and the Madam cast is full
of a who's who of New Zealand acting and Rachel
joins me, now, good morning, thank you so much for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
This is my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
How good is this show.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
What good? Is this show really good? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
It's so good? What swayed you to hit over and
be part of it?
Speaker 4 (01:19):
It's funny, you know, because I first heard about this
project playing madam, and it's at least the fifth time
I've been offered a madam in my I was probably
I did play one sex worker actually in a very
very fine British film by Honey Kureshi, but since then,
(01:44):
just really trashy madams and always to be honest, kind
of a little bit pervy, written by you know, written
from the kind of male perspective.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
I'd say so on first glance.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
I've just never seen this done in a way that
it's fresh, that is representative I think of how sex
workers think, talk, feel, not that they're a mono group.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
So I kind of read it.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
And I was like a few minutes and I was like, oh, oh, okay, okay, okay,
we're gonna get real.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Now, we're gonna get real.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
And funny because people I've know who have worked at
sex workers do have that kind of gallows humor about
just like nurses, very similar to nurses, about the way
they talk about what they do. And then I met
the team, which was amazing. I think my biggest hesitation
was Kiwi's are so funny, and I don't think of
(02:50):
myself as so funny, So that was probably that, Oh,
but do you really want me like I'm not I'm
not really funny. I'm certainly not Kiwi funny. And there
was just the sense that I was, I guess more
of the straight guy. Me and Marty kind of more
(03:12):
the straight guys. And it's the situations that are fighting
and certainly be on some cast bring.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
They sure do. We'll talk about the cast in a moment.
But you're so right about it being a fresh perspective
on the industry because it highlights why women choose to
do it as opposed to prostitutes always been sort of
portrayed as victims or you know, it kind of broadened
our minds as to why they might decide that this
is what they want to do.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, it's so true.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Like I kind of was always talking about the feminomics
of this show, and I have like my own I
guess feminomic algorithm when I'm off at anything, and it's
how far, how long? How much? And my second just
life school. But until very recently, you know, I had
(04:03):
three children marriage that was important to me in terms
of you know, Frie says, anything other three weeks you
start to kind of, you know, just not tune into
each other as much, but very much for the children.
So it was how much, you know, how long is
(04:23):
it going to take, how far away from my children
family will it take me? And how much money will
it pay? So you go, if it's really far for
not very long, for a lot of money.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
You can do it. But if it's really far for.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Not a lot of money, you know, the economics just
don't add up. And I think women who work in
the sex industry are making really similar decisions. Do I
go work seventy hour week on a minimum wage and
not be there for breakfast and you know when my
kids come home from school, or can I work two
(04:59):
days and be present provide for my family and be
present for the other five And I think it's very
rational decision.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
It doesn't matter what you do in life, does it, Rachel?
Every mother has the same conversation.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
And I think that's one of the gorgeous things about
the show is that.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
There is a kind of an unexpected.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Relatability I think for you know, working classes, middle classroom
to go, oh god, I'm having the same conversation. I'm like,
I am working too, you know, two longer hours for
too little money and not seeing my I'm not able
to be there when my children need me, and that
makes me not, you know, feel like I'm thriving or
(05:48):
the families thriving. So to take just the judgment out
of it is I think, so so great, And then
of course just the just the really this this happened
at work today elemental because I think, you know, we
we often are used to on our screen seeing sex
(06:10):
be sexy, and there's part of a reason that that
has always been since you know, the French nu Ace
cinema was a kind of legitimate pawn and you know Bridgington.
We want those things to be sexy because we're kind
of aspiring to marry Bridgington and we want that moment
of surrender. But you know, sex between two it was
(06:32):
also pretty just funny. You know, we're just mammals doing
mammally weird things to each other, you know, in the bushes,
and I think this show kind of allows us to
laugh at people's kinks and what they want to do.
We're not trying to turn the audience onto sex. Hopefully
we don't turn them off.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I think you're absolutely right though, with your character, it
is the character that the audience is going to immediate
relate to. You're it's a strong character, a very strong
central character, a lot of depth that people will relate
to that character. And then we throw you into these
scenarios as you mentioned, where there is just some pretty
hilarious things going on around you. I mean, this must
(07:14):
have been so much fun to make. Were you were
there times and you were just sort of standing there
going I can't believe we're doing this, or I can't
believe I'm standing in the middle of the scene.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
There were there were some really mental scenes, but I
think it's just the comedy chops in the ensemble, you know,
from actors, you know, like like Rema is just I mean,
you know her over there is just next level quirky
unexpected that the younger girls too, you know, the stand
(07:49):
up comed comedians and writers, and they would just always
bring up, you know, the unexpected note that no matter
how much I knew the script and had imagined the scene,
I could never imagine what some of the other actors'
choices would be and then people that I think you
(08:10):
associate maybe with more serious notes, like Martin and Danielle
and even Rob. I think you're not expecting the very
funny kind of take from them. But Rob just had
me and Stitches, as did Marty. I think Marty was
(08:32):
a bit like me, like, I'm not really funny. I
don't get cast for funny. Well, he just finds this
kind of Justin Bateman lane of the guy you want
to punch but you don't want to kill because he's
kind of cute.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
But oh my god, you grow up and he's just.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Got this really cool wheelhouse and he gets it.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Was like the end of his first day.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
He said to me, he goes, oh, this comedy it's
quite fun, isn't it. Since you're not as tired at
the end of the day, you've kind of had a
good laugh. But there were days where Martin.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Would do it's these big kind of crazy takes. I
can't and you kind of like look look to the
director to see if that was good.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
The whole crew is just falling apart laughing.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
It was new for him too.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, I mean it is the most extraordinary cast. It's
kind of like a Who's who in New Zealand acting, plus,
as you mentioned, a whole lot of really talented up
and coming actors as well. Do you see the series.
I know that the series has kind of been overseas
and in one awards and things. Do you see the
series resonating with Ossie's.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Oh? I do? I really do.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
I think, you know, both Australia and New Zealand, you know,
were built on kind of the colonizing female spirit as
much as the invading male one. But I think that
women's ingenuity and get done and can do and you know,
(10:03):
make lemons out of lemonade. It's as much Australian as
it is Kiwi. And I think I think we find
sex pretty funny too.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
You were so busy these days. How good is that?
Speaker 4 (10:19):
I don't jinx it the moment the moment I start
telling myself how you know, how piquing my career is,
or with.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
The moment the phone goes absolutely dead.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Look, I've been really, really fortunate, particularly over the last
couple of years, to kind of make my own content
and you know, executive produce on shows like this where
I get to, you know, bring bring some ideas and
thoughts to the table and and just work with really
(10:55):
amazing people on shows that I think I just I
don't know, they just feel I don't know if.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I if I'm getting.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Luckier or it's the content that's out there just is
getting more interesting in the female stories that it tells,
and and you know, having First Nations kind of lenses
on it as well, working with like Black Fellow films
over here. It's just really the last five years have
(11:23):
been the best for me, the best, the best five
years of my career from that, from who I'm getting
to collaborate with and the position I am. I guess
in that collaboration, it's not like shut up and say
your loans, Rachel, You're getting Peter shit, go to your
trailer and don't be a deeper.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Just a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, it's interesting conversation is because we've been having conversations
about women in film and television for a long time
and and and over the last couple of decades, we've
certainly seen that conversation change, and we are seeing a
lot more middle aged women in really and older in
really great roles, especially in television, which I think has
stepped up and has is presenting some of the best around.
(12:07):
But I wonder sometimes whether it's the same group of
women getting roles. It's not necessarily for all actors. There's
more opportunity, it's just for a smaller group.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
I don't think that is true, and I will say
that there's I went into television, you know, in two
thousand and the reason I did so is I have
been just working all around the world and every six
weeks kind of packing up my suitcase or eight weeks
and turning up to another part of the world alone,
(12:39):
meeting a whole bunch of new people.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
And I did kind.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Of have the language to tell myself, you know, this
isn't great. But I had made a commitment to myself
when I was I think I was. I was twenty
when I decided to become an actor, and I said,
at thirty, I'm going to I'll review it to see
how it's going.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Because you know, I'm a smart person.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
I come from a very hard working, your self useful family.
And I thought, if I'm just flopping about, not growing,
you know, I'm going to pull the plug and change
gears or change vehicles and do something else, or if
it's not working. And I found myself at thirty, you know,
with an Oscar nomination, but incredibly unhappy and this it
(13:30):
just is not It was really unhealthy for me to
just be living out of this suitcase. And I met,
you know, my manager at the time, and I said,
I think I might be done with this acting thing,
or I might just go back to Australia just to theater.
(13:51):
And he said to me, he said, I think you
should do television. And I was like, television.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
What's this television you talk of?
Speaker 4 (14:00):
And he said, well, going back to you know, Lucille Ball,
it's been the place for women to go when they're
at a point of their career, often having been a
huge stage actress or a film actress, where they want
to be in one place in race family. That's television
has always done with women, right, So I.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Got really, really lucky. But you are right that.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Representation in television has become perhaps more complicated. Very long
answer to your question, Well, I am.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So grateful that you didn't quit it thirty and so
grateful that you came back over to New Zealand to
film Madam. It's just a delight. It's exactly what you
need in the middle of winter. Just a good laugh,
great character, is loving it.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Thank you so much. Well, it's such a pleasure to
work there.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Your cruiser just next level professional and respectful and yeah, anytime.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
That was Rachel Griffiths and you can watch Madame on
TV three and three now.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rod, listen
live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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