Thomas Coughlan: NZ Herald political editor on the IPCA report revealing police staff failed to investigate McSkimming complaints

There's discussion over Andrew Coster's future with the police following a bombshell report.

An IPCA report came out earlier in the week, revealing senior police staff had failed to properly investigate a complaint against then-Deputy Commissioner Jevon McSkimming.

The report implicated Coster, as well as other senior leaders.

NZ Herald political editor Thomas Coughlan unpacked the ongoing discussions.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks edb.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Okay listen Talk Politics. Thomas Coglan is The Herald's political
editor and joins it now Tom.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Giday, Good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
All week long, it was j MX skimming and then
the fallout and who knew what at the top levels.
So where are we at with this now?

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Yeah, Well, it looks like the former Commissioner Andrew Costa
is probably going to make an exit from his current
job as the chief executive of the Social and Investment Agency.
He moved the last year after his Center Police. His
position is pretty untenable that he did not act on

(00:54):
his deputy Commissioner Javon mc skimming and actually, despite not
knowing the truth of what, unwittingly, effectively unwittingly helped cover
up the the sort of scandal by by making it
less likely that that the complaints were investigated. So there
has made his position untenable. He's in an employment process

(01:16):
with the Public Service Commission who is as an official
employer as a public service chief executive. It's pretty clear
that ministers have lost confidence in him, so he is
just having having a chat with the commission I I
mentioned about the terms of his exit. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Absolutely. The key point, the key word I just heard
in your sentence was unwittingly. And that's really what we
need to really prove, beyond doubt, whether Andy Coster, whether
his actions were unwitting or whether he knew exactly what
was happening, and he was and was he was going
against Chambers, and he was wanting his man Mix Skimming

(01:51):
to get the next job, and he was prepared to
hide it or not.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Well, I think yes, I mean, I don't think there
is any evidence that that Costin knew what what mix
Skimming had done. I think he's what. What Coster did
know was that Chambers, sorry mix Skimming, had had an
affair uh and and the affair had ended in in

(02:16):
in bad in a bad way. Uh and and and
he seems to have believed that this was simply a
case of a jilted x ex lover trying to smear
the reputation of mix Skimming. And he didn't seem to
do anything to uncover the truth of the matter, which
is that you know, mix Skimming have done had done
some serious, serious wrong here. So I think even if

(02:39):
it was unwitting which that that is all the evidence
we have is that is that it was unwittingly done.
It shows that he you know that that Costed simply
wasn't a very good cop.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well, hey, exactly. And the other thing, I mean, we're
looking at political fallout, and of course the people who
appointed cost It was the previous regime, so people are
using that against them, and I get there. But the real,
the real victim in all of this is trust and
the police. And and the first time I heard this story,
it instantly took me back to Sholam and Shipton and

(03:12):
Rickard and Louise Nicholas and and all that story that
we had before. And now it turns out the same
sort of behavior of of you know, of of conspiring
and also helping each other as as mates, went all
the way to the very top of the police. So
what are the How could the police actually restore trust?

(03:33):
Even though I know that Chambers is doing a great
job of it by coming out so strongly.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah, I think, and I think there are a couple
of things which are helpfully different in this situation. You know,
we've seen a bit of commentary this week that actually
the police have made some good strides at the sort
of beat level. The the the Louise Nicholas as a
scandal basically uncovered, you know, widespread cover ups, widespread problems

(03:59):
at many local police stations around the country, where where
police use their their power and standing within the community
to to do bad things and then not be held
account held accountable for them. That is, you know that
that was a terrible scandal just for how broad it was,
that covered the whole kind of country and not just

(04:21):
This scandal is a sort of a different one because
it actually involves a small number of people right at
the top of the police. And so what you haven't
seen in this scandal is that there is a widespread
culture within the whole organization, which is you know, thousands
and thousands of sworn officers and hundreds of public servants,
non swom public servants, maybe thousands of them as well,

(04:42):
actually I don't know the number of them. What what
this shows is a is a really bad thing occurring
with very powerful people who should know better. At the
same time, however, it does I suppose if you look
for any positives in this in this scandal, and there
are vanishingly few positives it is that it only involves
a small number of very powerful people who who are

(05:04):
you know, currently being excised from their roles within the
public service.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Now let's move to another issue. What's happening with to
party Maori's slow motion collapse. We know that two people
have gone, now with any Copra possibly going, we don't
know what's happening with a couple of the others. It
seems like the whole party is fragmenting.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yes it does. It is. The party seems to be
falling apart. It seems, I mean, the only two people
who are surely in the party still are the co
leaders Rowdy White Tea and Debi Nariba Pecker. Of course
you've got Hanna and after mighty Clark there the big bright,
young hope for the future. She's pretty quiet at the moment,

(05:42):
but she seems to be pretty pretty squeally in their
camp as well. But I mean, quite a remarkable split,
like they've lost a third of the aqucus, could lose
half their qucerus. And it doesn't seem to be any
kind of end to it because obviously now that that's split,
they've got a whole nother party in parliament to continue
with a whole other party to potentially fight the seats

(06:03):
over next election. So it is anyone's guess where and
when this will end exactly.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
I know that the Labor Party is jumping up and
down saying, right, we can get these we can get
these Malory seats back, but that will do them no good.
Whatso wherever if they get the Malory seats back but
they don't lift their party vote, because then they'll just
replace you know, List MPs with Maori MPs and get
no more mandate.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah. Yeah. The benefit the benefit of having the Maori
Party in Parliament is that the benefit of having the
Marti Party in Parliament is that the people and the
voters and the Malory seats do tend to split their vote.
And what that means is as the Left gets what
has a good chance of getting a nice overhang after
the election, which is basically a free seas in the

(06:45):
House to make it easier to former government.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
All right, well, follow the story. You'll follow the story.
We'll keep on seeing how far this goes and what
it will mean. And I thank you so much. That's
Thomas Coglan, who is The Herald's political editor.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin. Listen
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