December 18, 2024 • 27 mins
Happiness expert Gretchen Rubin shares tips for making habits stick, and enjoying life
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning.
This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
episode is going to be a longer one part of
the series where I interview fascinating people about how they
take their days from great to awesome and any advice
(00:23):
they have for the rest of us. So today I
am delighted to welcome Gretchen Ruben to the show. Gretchen
hosts the Happier Podcast with her sister Elizabeth Kraft. She's
also the author of several books, including The Happiness Project
and Better Than Before. She's coming to us from New
York City. Gretchen, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm so happy to be talking to you. Laura.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, well, why don't you tell our listeners a little
bit about yourself and what you're up to these days?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well as you as you say, I'm in New York City,
you perhaps here a siren of.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
The background, sirens in the back, see.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
A little bit of a local flavor. So I'm all right.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I do many things, as one does, but I'm a
writer and I have a book coming out of the
spring called Secrets of Adulthood, which is all of the
secrets of adulthood that I.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Have learned the hard way.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I was collecting them to give to my daughters, but
then I realized I need to remember these for myself
just as much, and so I'm really excited to be
doing that. And then I'm also working on a project
about the Empty Nest because my younger daughter just went
off to college, and so I'm very you know, I
think that the empty Nest, which Laura, you are very
far away from this period of life. But what's interesting
about it is that it's a forced reckoning. And I think,
(01:32):
I mean, one of the things you talk about all
the time is like the need to reflect and really
step back and think about how am I using my time?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
How am I using my energy?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Is there a better way that I could be using
my time and my energy and to have the life
that I want? And I think for a lot of people,
because there's such a dramatic shift and our relationships and
our space and our habits, and it's just a time
where people naturally, even if they don't want to, sometimes
step back and think about, Okay, what do I want
(02:00):
from life?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Anyway? So it's an interesting it's an interesting time to study.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, well, I'm always a fan of reflection, and yes,
I'm a long way from the empty years, empty nest
years with my little one, but I do have an
older child going off to college in the fall, so
we'll start to at least experience the emptying emptying.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yes, yes, I was being at the open door because
I think that sounds much more positive. Right, So your door,
you will have an open door with people coming and going.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
For a very long time, probably a lot of people
coming and going a lot. Yes, well, I'm curious Gretchen
about I mean, you have so many things going on
between the podcast, the writing projects, and you know, running
your business, which brings lots of different happiness content to people.
Maybe you can tell us a little bit about your
daily schedule or first do you have Do you have
(02:46):
a morning routine? People love to hear about that on
this show.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yes. Well, this might sound a little bit alarming to
the people who are not mourning people, but I get
up at five am because whenever I'm doing a very
intense creative work, I find it much easier to do
in the morning because the world is quiet, my mind
is quiet, and so when I'm doing something original, like
I'm working on this this project empty nest. I'll get
up so that from like five to nine I can
(03:10):
really dedicate myself to that, or if there's something that
I'm really dreading, like even if it's an email that is.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Just like horrible. Because I am such a morning person,
I always think, Okay, I'm gonna do that.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I'm going to wake up and do that first thing
in the morning because I know that's like my clearest mind,
my highest energy, and my my highest focus.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
And then it's then.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
At like at nine am, I'm enough folder in the
four Tennessee framework, and I know you are too, Laura.
So at nine am and so I walk my dog
at some point, and then at nine am I have
breakfast and then sort of my real day starts, and
that's when I start doing things like answering.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Emails, having meetings. Sometimes I'll meet somebody for breakfast even
though you know I've been up for a really long time.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
More like lunch you at that point, right.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And so so so my.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So what I like about the early morning for me
as a morning person is that's very consistent, like nothing
really interrupts it, because not that many things happened before
nine am. So I can count on that time, and
then the rest of my day starts being you know,
I'm exercising, I do high intensity weight training.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You know, I go to the MET every day, so
I have to fit that in.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Then I start having I would like to live as
a monk, where like every day is exactly the same,
but I can't.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Well, much as we might try, I know, but yeah,
so when does that Met visit tend to happen? Because
that sounds like a pretty fantastic work break for people
who don't know Gretchen goes to the Metropolitan Museum of
Art almost every day. Yes, yes, so yeah, when does
that happen?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
So I'm super lucky that I live within walking since
of the men. Of course, I never take that for granted.
I'm super super fortunate. What I realized is that I
needed time in the day where I could just have recess,
where I could just let my mind off the leash
and just kind of wander. And so when I was
working my book Life in Five Senses, I decided to
go to the MET every day, just because I was like,
how will it change over the course of a year
(05:04):
as I if I went every day, and then that
isn't open on Wednesdays, so I can't I can on
leave you six days a week.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But it's amazing, Like I love it more all the time.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Like I that that year was years ago now and
I still go every day that I'm in New York
City and uh, And it's just I go for as
longer as short as I want, and I just wander around,
I go to I just do whatever I feel like.
Sometimes I see a new exhibits, sometimes I go back
to my old favorites. It's just so it's a really
(05:35):
it's a treat in my Dayah. Another thing that I
do is I take a nap every day there If
you look at the research, there's huge amounts of research
about the benefits of taking a nap, and I take
like it's almost like always a twenty two minute nap,
even though I don't set an alarm.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And I do find that that helps me like get
a kick of energy as well.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
So I'm trying to space the nap and the mets
so that I can kind of maintain my energy throughout
the day.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Focus.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, I'm curious about the nap. I am not a
very good napper. So how do you how do you
get yourself down to sleep and and then you know
also and ensure that you are you know, not groggy
waking up and things like that.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah, I think now my father is like a champion napper,
so maybe part of this is genetic and I just
have good napping genes.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
But what I found, I just encourage people to try it. Now.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I think if you're if you're kind of chronically underslept,
you might find that you would drop into a deep
sleep of like an hour and a half if you could.
So I'm not that I'm asleep zealot, so I'm I'm
very well well rested. So my naps like I just
lie down. If there's something really important where I have
to be awake, I set an alarm just basically so
I don't worry about waking up in time. But usually
(06:49):
I just said, I'll listen to a podcast, like a
very kind like an in Our Time or some kind
of like gentle podcast that's not that engaging, but you know,
interesting enough to hold my attention. But then I just
drift off and I don't go that deeply into sleep,
and then I just kind of automatically come back after
about twenty two minutes, and it takes a few minutes
to kind of wake up. Like a lot of times
I'll brush my teeth or wash my face or something
(07:11):
just to kind of wake myself up. But I do
find that it really does restore my energy and my focus,
and so I would encourage people to experiment with it.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It's also the kind of.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Thing that one part of your life it might not
have worked, but now it might. Like if you had
little kids and you were being your night sleep was
really disrupted, this might you might be hard to take,
sort of like a like a short nap the way
I am, But if it works for you, it really
can be powerful.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Excellent all right, So between going to the met and
taking a nap sounds like an excellent way to put
some breaks into your work.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well here's another thing.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Dan Pink, who wrote a book about time, I had
the idea of the napucina, which is you drink a
big cup of coffee or something with a lot of caffeine.
Because it takes about twenty five minutes for caffeine to
hit your bloodstream, So if you have a nappucino, you'll
like automatically wake up with a kick off caffeine.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So that's another.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
That's another for the Life Ack There Life Actino, nap Pacino.
All right, well, We're going to take a quick ad
break and then I will be back with more from
Gretchen Ruben. Well, I am back interviewing Gretchen Rubin, who
is the author of The Happiness Project co host of
(08:22):
the Happier Podcast. So, Gretchen, we are coming into the
new year here end of twenty twenty four, beginning of
twenty twenty five when this is airing. Are you the
sort of person who sets New Year's resolutions or are
you not?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Oh, one hundred percent I am. I'm like the most
of that.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yes, you might even say I've almost built my career
around making resolutions.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
So why don't you talk a little bit about what
they tend to look like for you?
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Well, over time, what I've learned is that resolutions work
best when they're very conk and they're manageable, and they
focus on actions not outcomes.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
And so you know, I found that like saying something.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I like, I want to visit the met more often
isn't as successful as visit the met every for ten
minutes every day, or not like read more but read
for a half an hour every day where there's something
where or what's even harder is when people put in
it as something like well I want to learn Italian.
Well that's such a vague, morphous and almost kind of
(09:30):
like impossible aim that you're you're gonna fall short of
it and feel frustrated.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
But if it was like use a.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Language learning app to learn five new vocabulary words every week,
that you could do and so I and I made
this mistake in twenty twenty four because I was like,
learn the watercolor, and it just part of it. Part
of what happened is I like I actually took a
class and I like cleared my calendar and spent the
money and got friends to do it with me, and
(09:57):
then I had a terrible, terrible teacher, and so I
felt like I was like I almost felt like I
had been cheated.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And then I was like, what it took all this
time from me?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And so like now I don't want to put more time,
which is obviously irrational, and yet it kind of kind
of soured my view.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
But for twenty twenty five, I'm.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Really breaking it into like do watercolor every single day.
That can include just watching a video or reading reading
something about water coloring, but like, every single day do
something that like connects me to the practice of water color.
And I want to do a postcard once a month
and send it to somebody, so that again it's like
that's something that like a January, I'll give myself a
(10:34):
check mark.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
In February, I'll give myself a check mark.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
One of my resolutions is to create stations where I
can work on it, so it's like, Okay, well, if
I'm doing watercolor, that can be kind of messy.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Where am I going to do it in my apartment?
Can I leave it out?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
It's out all the time, so I don't have to
constantly fuss with it. So I broke it into individual
steps so that I can be like, yes, I'm doing this,
I'm maintaining my materials. Yes I'm doing this, because what
I found is like I went, I loved all the
materials and like buying the paper and the pens and
the brushes, but it's like, okay, but you've got that stuff,
now you're going.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
To do the painting.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
So twenty twenty five is like, okay, not going to
put brush to paper.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
But I really broke it down and make it manageable.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Well, and the idea of sending a postcard a month
as a way to hold yourself accountable.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
For absolutely, Like there's a thing that I that I'm
aiming to do that will be satisfying. And I have
a book where it's like watercolor paper made into postcards.
So it's just like a very it will be a
very easy thing. It's all kind of ready to go, right.
But that is about accountability.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, And I imagine that's like one of the things
that people what you're talking about as you are setting
these goals. What people tend to get wrong as they're
setting resolutions is that they tend to be vague. They
haven't thought through what it's going to look like in
their actual days or where it's going to fit in
their schedule or in their apartment, as the case may be.
(11:56):
There's no accountability, Like how will I know if I've succeeded, right, Like,
I don't know, Like you could spend a lifetime learning Italian,
so it's kind of hard to say, like if I
succeeded at this goal or not. Yes, So, yeah, are
there any other pitfalls that people tend to have with these.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Well, we were talking about accountability, and I don't want
to get into my whole four tendencies personality framework because
it takes like a minute to go through it. This
is a framework that device people into upholders, questioners, obligers,
and rebels. If people want to learn more than can
goet to Gretchen roomin dot com slash quiz and take
the quiz and you'll learn all about it and all
will be revealed about your personality. But the key thing
(12:31):
for a lot of people is to know that for
the biggest group of people, obligers of the four, they
need outer accountability even to meet an inner expectation. So
if they want to read more, they need to join
a book group or you know, have an accountability buddy,
or tell their kids while you're reading for school, I'll
read for school. And if I'm not reading, you don't
have to do your reading, you know. So now your
(12:52):
kids are holding your accountable. They need accountability. Now I'm
an upholder, so I don't need accountability in the same way.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
But to your point, it's.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Satisfying to have milestones that you can demonstrably meet so
that you know, like I am making progress, I am
doing what I said I would do, I am seeing
that I am passing these milestones and so and again.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
It's sort of like training for the marathon.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Sometimes people think like, I want to if I want
to run more, I should train for the marathon. But
sometimes what happens is people run the marathon and then
they never run again, or they do thirty days of
yoga and then they never do yoga again. It's important
to think of things as milestones. These are milestones that
we will pass but in the continuation of a habit forever.
(13:35):
So my twelve postcards are important, but it's like it's
not like, oh, I've done my twelve postcards. Now. If
I just sat down and did my twelve postcards, I'm done.
Done every second, right, The twelve post cards are more
like to give me milestones of like, okay, I see
that I'm making progress, so that i'm and I'm moving
through it more than sort of like okay, now I'm done.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, and we want to make it doable in daily
life too. I mean, it's something like I'm to do
some watercolor, but you're not saying I'm gonna do six
hours of watercolor every.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Day, well exactly, and even saying something like I could
watch like let's say I'm stuck in a car. I
could watch a video on YouTube about watercolor and that
would count. I'm like, I'm going to lower the bar
a lot so that I don't feel like, well, I
have to abandon this because it's just not realistic. It's like, okay, well,
even if I'm just reading this article that I printed
out from the internet about.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
You know, what is dry on dry, I don't know,
you know, because I had such a bad tea shirt.
She didn't explain that to me. So it's like, any
little bit will.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Count because I think that's what's going to help me
build up those skills and that knowledge of her time.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Well, let's take something like you know, you know, you
had a resolution many many years ago with the Happiness
Project to make yourself happier over the course of a year.
But if somebody was going to do that, somebody said, like,
I want to be happier in twenty twenty five. Yeah, Like,
what are some practical things they could do?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Well, I have two answers, like a trans say answer
and a practical answer. I'll give the practical answer first.
Because people ask me this very question all the time.
I became very frustrated because I was always like, well, Laura,
it depends like what are your interests, what do you need?
Like what moves the needle for you? Like I have
to sit down and have a long conversation with you.
And people would be like, just tell me what to do.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Just ask for the first step, Gretchen.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
So now I have a quiz. It's called the Habits
for Happiness Quiz. Again, got to gretchenmove dot com slash
quiz and you can take it and it will tell
you not just what one should do, but what you,
Laura should do, because it takes you through actually not
that very many questions, and it really will give you
an answer that's like what is the thing that you
personally need to work on? Like where are you feeling
the biggest gap? What would move the needle the most
(15:39):
for you? So that will give you a personalized answer.
But if I couldn't talk to you, if I couldn't
ask you to take the quiz and figure out your answer,
I would say probably your best bet is to either
do something related to relationships or to your body, because
I mean, ancient philosophers and contemporary scientists agree that to
be happy we need to have relationships. So anything related
(16:02):
to deepening your relationships or broadening your relationships is likely
to make you happier. So maybe you've always wanted to
start a book group. That would be a that would
probably make you very happy because that's going to deepen
your relationship with other people.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Maybe you've been meaning to say.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Like, oh, I've got these five kids, I should make
a like I should make regular one on one outings
with them.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
That's probably going to make you happier.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
That's a good use of your time, energy, and money
because it goes to relationships.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Or also with the body, because our body, like our
physical experience, is always going to color our emotional experience.
So anything related to like getting exercise, getting.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Enough sleep, making sure that you're just like physically comfortable
like here, Like somebody was like, oh, I've been working
from home since like twenty twenty one, and I'm still
sitting on a dining room chair, Like.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
No, you got to get a proper office chair like that.
You'll be so much more comfortable.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Like your body as you work. Like that matters. That's
a good place for your time, energy, your money. Is
anything going to your physical experience or like baby there's
a lot of noise where you work and you really
need silence. Okay, you should invest in some noise canceling
headphones for you. That might really really improve the quality
of your work day. So I would say relationships or
(17:13):
your body, those are good places to focus unless you
want to take the quies that might give you a
much more refined answer.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Excellent, excellent. All right, Well, we're going to take one
more quick ad break and then we will be back
with more from Gretchen. Well, I am back. I'm interviewing
Gretchen Rubin, who is the co host of The Happier
Podcast the author of several books, including Better Than Before. So, Gretchen,
(17:42):
one of your you know Gretchen phrases, you always talk
about an atmosphere of growth. And I saw on social
media that you recently hosted your first Thanksgiving. Yes, Isa,
is this a growth experience for you?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
It was. I feel like it's a I feel like
it's an adult hood milestone to host a major holiday.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And in truth, I thought that I never would. I was.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
I was very surprised by myself and very and I
feel like I really did show that I have, you know,
the potential to do something that I didn't think that
I would ever do. And that's that that really was
very gratifying.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, excellent, And it just had never happened before. I mean,
you went elsewhere for Thanksgiving or.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
So I live right around the corner for my in laws.
My husband like lives right around the corner from where.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
He grew up.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I mean, you do not even cross the street. And
my mother in law is this amazing cook. And I
always go home to my parents in Kansas City for
the Christmas holidays, but we would spend Thanksgiving with my
with my husband's family, and so it was always just
like she would cook.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
And you know, that was just the way that it was.
But you know, over time, it just my my parents.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
And my sister and her family decided to come to
New York for Thanksgiving, and I just thought, okay, this
is my opportunity to step up. And okay, and I
have to say, like I didn't actually cook. I felt
I supervised. You made it. I did the table scape.
I made sure that we had everything we needed. I
I I got all the pieces in place, and then
(19:13):
and then then other people did the actual cooking. I live,
I live amongst cooks, So yeah, they were, I would
have had to like, you know, grab something out of
their hands.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
That they wanted to make.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
So that that was that was not the hard part.
The hard part was just like the orchestration. There's a
lot of orchestration of a large.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Of a large but hey, it makes you happy, right
to have lots of people gathered underwater.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
It was so fun. I see why people love it.
You really do.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
There is an excitement and a satisfaction of like knowing
that you're the one that's and then you know, you
do your little touches, like you know, we had these
like funny name cards that looked like turkeys, and it's
everybody's like, oh, these are so cute, you know, so
it gives you a reason to do you know. It's
a kind of creativity. It's kind of everyday creativity is
like is playing a meal like that?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
So I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, it's fun and it is definitely something that can
make a lot of work but make people very happy. So, Richard,
we always ask on this show, there's something that you've
done recently to take a day from great to awesome?
So is there something you've done recently that's like made
a day really really cool.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Oh what a great question. Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I mean I do this whenever I can, So it's
not like this is novel, But whenever I can do it,
I love it.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
And that's when I have a same day book and
the same.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Day book because I love, love, love to read, and
I love to binge read.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Where like, if I can have the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Where I'm really like just sitting on a sofa for
a big part of a day just reading, and the
same day book is when I can start and finish
a book.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
In one day.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Now it usually it is not a long book, but
many books are not long, and I just for some reason,
I feel like you experienced a book differently where you
really take it from beginning Middleton and in one reading
like it's like you pick up illusions and sort of
like you just have a better grasp of the details
sometimes because it's all just so fresh. And I think
(21:14):
some books lend themselves to reading over time, they kind
of sink in into a different way you can sort
of sometimes I feel like I'm just gulping down a
book as fast as I can, but I do I
feel like whenever I do that, I feel like there's
this is like a special treat in a day.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I love that. A same day book. I had never
heard it referred to ever.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Since I was little, I've called it the same day.
I don't know that anybody else uses stuf phrase, but yeah, no, no.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
We will.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Okay, yeah, you heard it here.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Look for those the same day books, the ones that
are short enough that you could conceivably get through them,
and in.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Everybody a great same day book. Read Foster by Turkey Agan.
It is an it's really a novella. It's a beautiful book.
It's a beautifully written book. It's uh, it's a book
that you will just feel like you spent your time.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Well yeah, and maybe just only a few hours on
the sofa. So yeah, we probably find the space for
it exactly. So, Gretchen, what are you looking forward to
right now?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
I am looking forward to water coloring.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
I think that's going to be great. I think my
family's going to get a puppy in twenty twenty five.
That's very exciting. I'm I'm planning a big like. I
love to read, and I have a children's literature reading group.
Actually it's like multiple children's literature reading group, and we
are hitting our twentieth anniversary in September, so I'm going
(22:38):
to plan a party for.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
That, which I'm very excited about. It's a big anniversary.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
That's one of the things that I've vowed over the
last few years is to celebrate anniversaries more. I think
somewhere often we were focused on the to do and
looking forward, and I'm like, it's good to have a
tada and remind ourselves how far we've come.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
And for some reason, twenty twenty five it is.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
A year where I have like fifteen major anniversaries happening,
and so that's one that I'm.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Really excited about.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I did a lot in two thousand and five for
twenty ten or nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Funny, it's funny, you don't I didn't realize it, But
actually two thousand and five was a super big year
for me. I realize now, and like at the time
I didn't think anything. I wasn't aware that I was
laying the groundwork for so much to come.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, well, I love the idea of selling you know,
anniversaries aren't just for romance, right that there? You know,
we think about it like a wedding anniversary or something
like that. Which of course should be celebrated, but right,
there's many other things in life that we may have
done for years and years and years as well.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, no, I mean the anniversary of like the first
time you're in it, Like for people who run marathons,
is like when did you run your first method? Or
like I do high intensity weight training and I was
trying to figure out, like when did I start? I
would like to I would like to get like the
smugness of gloating over how many years I've done it? Now,
Like sometimes it's good to like sit down and figure
out what is the anniversary so that you can you
(23:54):
can really celebrate it.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, well I have to only celebrate two years for.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Me on that. But yeah, yes, Erican is something.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
It's something I'm never gonna love it, but you know
it's it's it's good to do.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It's good to do, and it's so short.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yes, exactly. So, Gretchen, maybe you can give a quick
some of you for listeners where they can find you.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Ah, yes, so on my website Gretchen Reuben dot com.
There's like just tons of resources and articles. All the
quizzes are there. If you just look for quiz, you
can say, and I have other quizzes too that are
super fun. I love a quiz, I love to I
love a self knowledge question, so I love a quiz.
I have my podcast which is called Happier with Gretchen Rubin,
which is, as you said, I do it with my
sister and we talk about how to be happier, healthier,
(24:35):
more productive, and more creative.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's very practical too. I have a lot of products now, like.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I really I love journals and get kind of all
kinds of products that you can use to boost your
happiness or to make yourself more creative.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
And that's uh. You can go to my website and
look on the shop.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
I have a newsletter called five Things Making Me Happy,
which is every week I talk about five things making
me happy.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
And that's just super.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Fun, you know, to shine a spotlight on things that
are you know, just make me happy.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
And uh.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
But but basically, if you just look and I'm on
social media as Gretchen Ruben in all the places that
people go, so basically that's it. Gretchen Reuben dot com
will take you anywhere you want to go.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah, I was noticing one of the things that made
you happy. This stuck out for me finding out that
Anna Wintour had gone to see The Devil Wears Prada
or something like that.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
You know that The thing is she wore product.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
She wore product to it.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
She was the premiere, and I mean, I just thought
that is so funny. And she said I and and
and then they said what do you think of it?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
She said, I love it. Anything that, anything that that
makes the fashion industry more interesting and glamorous, I'm for it.
And I just thought it wasn't that? Isn't that funny?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Is it good to be self aware? And like, yeah,
the knowing knowing onseself is the.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I am the devil.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
I will wear Prada's very funny.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
All right, Well, Gretchen, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you to everyone for listening, for staying with us
through some of my longer episodes as I'm experimenting with
this format. If you have feedback for me about this
episode or any others anything you'd like to see, you
can reach me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
In the meantime, this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and
here's to making the most of our time. Thanks for
(26:27):
listening to before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback,
you can reach me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts
from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(26:50):
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning.
This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
episode is going to be a longer one part of
the series where I interview fascinating people about how they
take their days from great to awesome and any advice
(00:23):
they have for the rest of us. So today I
am delighted to welcome Gretchen Ruben to the show. Gretchen
hosts the Happier Podcast with her sister Elizabeth Kraft. She's
also the author of several books, including The Happiness Project
and Better Than Before. She's coming to us from New
York City. Gretchen, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm so happy to be talking to you. Laura.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, well, why don't you tell our listeners a little
bit about yourself and what you're up to these days?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well as you as you say, I'm in New York City,
you perhaps here a siren of.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
The background, sirens in the back, see.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
A little bit of a local flavor. So I'm all right.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I do many things, as one does, but I'm a
writer and I have a book coming out of the
spring called Secrets of Adulthood, which is all of the
secrets of adulthood that I.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Have learned the hard way.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I was collecting them to give to my daughters, but
then I realized I need to remember these for myself
just as much, and so I'm really excited to be
doing that. And then I'm also working on a project
about the Empty Nest because my younger daughter just went
off to college, and so I'm very you know, I
think that the empty Nest, which Laura, you are very
far away from this period of life. But what's interesting
about it is that it's a forced reckoning. And I think,
(01:32):
I mean, one of the things you talk about all
the time is like the need to reflect and really
step back and think about how am I using my time?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
How am I using my energy?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Is there a better way that I could be using
my time and my energy and to have the life
that I want? And I think for a lot of people,
because there's such a dramatic shift and our relationships and
our space and our habits, and it's just a time
where people naturally, even if they don't want to, sometimes
step back and think about, Okay, what do I want
(02:00):
from life?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Anyway? So it's an interesting it's an interesting time to study.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, well, I'm always a fan of reflection, and yes,
I'm a long way from the empty years, empty nest
years with my little one, but I do have an
older child going off to college in the fall, so
we'll start to at least experience the emptying emptying.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yes, yes, I was being at the open door because
I think that sounds much more positive. Right, So your door,
you will have an open door with people coming and going.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
For a very long time, probably a lot of people
coming and going a lot. Yes, well, I'm curious Gretchen
about I mean, you have so many things going on
between the podcast, the writing projects, and you know, running
your business, which brings lots of different happiness content to people.
Maybe you can tell us a little bit about your
daily schedule or first do you have Do you have
(02:46):
a morning routine? People love to hear about that on
this show.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yes. Well, this might sound a little bit alarming to
the people who are not mourning people, but I get
up at five am because whenever I'm doing a very
intense creative work, I find it much easier to do
in the morning because the world is quiet, my mind
is quiet, and so when I'm doing something original, like
I'm working on this this project empty nest. I'll get
up so that from like five to nine I can
(03:10):
really dedicate myself to that, or if there's something that
I'm really dreading, like even if it's an email that is.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Just like horrible. Because I am such a morning person,
I always think, Okay, I'm gonna do that.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I'm going to wake up and do that first thing
in the morning because I know that's like my clearest mind,
my highest energy, and my my highest focus.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
And then it's then.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
At like at nine am, I'm enough folder in the
four Tennessee framework, and I know you are too, Laura.
So at nine am and so I walk my dog
at some point, and then at nine am I have
breakfast and then sort of my real day starts, and
that's when I start doing things like answering.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Emails, having meetings. Sometimes I'll meet somebody for breakfast even
though you know I've been up for a really long time.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
More like lunch you at that point, right.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And so so so my.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So what I like about the early morning for me
as a morning person is that's very consistent, like nothing
really interrupts it, because not that many things happened before
nine am. So I can count on that time, and
then the rest of my day starts being you know,
I'm exercising, I do high intensity weight training.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You know, I go to the MET every day, so
I have to fit that in.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Then I start having I would like to live as
a monk, where like every day is exactly the same,
but I can't.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Well, much as we might try, I know, but yeah,
so when does that Met visit tend to happen? Because
that sounds like a pretty fantastic work break for people
who don't know Gretchen goes to the Metropolitan Museum of
Art almost every day. Yes, yes, so yeah, when does
that happen?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
So I'm super lucky that I live within walking since
of the men. Of course, I never take that for granted.
I'm super super fortunate. What I realized is that I
needed time in the day where I could just have recess,
where I could just let my mind off the leash
and just kind of wander. And so when I was
working my book Life in Five Senses, I decided to
go to the MET every day, just because I was like,
how will it change over the course of a year
(05:04):
as I if I went every day, and then that
isn't open on Wednesdays, so I can't I can on
leave you six days a week.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But it's amazing, Like I love it more all the time.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Like I that that year was years ago now and
I still go every day that I'm in New York
City and uh, And it's just I go for as
longer as short as I want, and I just wander around,
I go to I just do whatever I feel like.
Sometimes I see a new exhibits, sometimes I go back
to my old favorites. It's just so it's a really
(05:35):
it's a treat in my Dayah. Another thing that I
do is I take a nap every day there If
you look at the research, there's huge amounts of research
about the benefits of taking a nap, and I take
like it's almost like always a twenty two minute nap,
even though I don't set an alarm.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And I do find that that helps me like get
a kick of energy as well.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
So I'm trying to space the nap and the mets
so that I can kind of maintain my energy throughout
the day.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Focus.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, I'm curious about the nap. I am not a
very good napper. So how do you how do you
get yourself down to sleep and and then you know
also and ensure that you are you know, not groggy
waking up and things like that.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah, I think now my father is like a champion napper,
so maybe part of this is genetic and I just
have good napping genes.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
But what I found, I just encourage people to try it. Now.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I think if you're if you're kind of chronically underslept,
you might find that you would drop into a deep
sleep of like an hour and a half if you could.
So I'm not that I'm asleep zealot, so I'm I'm
very well well rested. So my naps like I just
lie down. If there's something really important where I have
to be awake, I set an alarm just basically so
I don't worry about waking up in time. But usually
(06:49):
I just said, I'll listen to a podcast, like a
very kind like an in Our Time or some kind
of like gentle podcast that's not that engaging, but you know,
interesting enough to hold my attention. But then I just
drift off and I don't go that deeply into sleep,
and then I just kind of automatically come back after
about twenty two minutes, and it takes a few minutes
to kind of wake up. Like a lot of times
I'll brush my teeth or wash my face or something
(07:11):
just to kind of wake myself up. But I do
find that it really does restore my energy and my focus,
and so I would encourage people to experiment with it.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It's also the kind of.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Thing that one part of your life it might not
have worked, but now it might. Like if you had
little kids and you were being your night sleep was
really disrupted, this might you might be hard to take,
sort of like a like a short nap the way
I am, But if it works for you, it really
can be powerful.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Excellent all right, So between going to the met and
taking a nap sounds like an excellent way to put
some breaks into your work.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well here's another thing.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Dan Pink, who wrote a book about time, I had
the idea of the napucina, which is you drink a
big cup of coffee or something with a lot of caffeine.
Because it takes about twenty five minutes for caffeine to
hit your bloodstream, So if you have a nappucino, you'll
like automatically wake up with a kick off caffeine.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So that's another.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
That's another for the Life Ack There Life Actino, nap Pacino.
All right, well, We're going to take a quick ad
break and then I will be back with more from
Gretchen Ruben. Well, I am back interviewing Gretchen Rubin, who
is the author of The Happiness Project co host of
(08:22):
the Happier Podcast. So, Gretchen, we are coming into the
new year here end of twenty twenty four, beginning of
twenty twenty five when this is airing. Are you the
sort of person who sets New Year's resolutions or are
you not?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Oh, one hundred percent I am. I'm like the most
of that.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yes, you might even say I've almost built my career
around making resolutions.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
So why don't you talk a little bit about what
they tend to look like for you?
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Well, over time, what I've learned is that resolutions work
best when they're very conk and they're manageable, and they
focus on actions not outcomes.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
And so you know, I found that like saying something.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I like, I want to visit the met more often
isn't as successful as visit the met every for ten
minutes every day, or not like read more but read
for a half an hour every day where there's something
where or what's even harder is when people put in
it as something like well I want to learn Italian.
Well that's such a vague, morphous and almost kind of
(09:30):
like impossible aim that you're you're gonna fall short of
it and feel frustrated.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
But if it was like use a.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Language learning app to learn five new vocabulary words every week,
that you could do and so I and I made
this mistake in twenty twenty four because I was like,
learn the watercolor, and it just part of it. Part
of what happened is I like I actually took a
class and I like cleared my calendar and spent the
money and got friends to do it with me, and
(09:57):
then I had a terrible, terrible teacher, and so I
felt like I was like I almost felt like I
had been cheated.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And then I was like, what it took all this
time from me?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And so like now I don't want to put more time,
which is obviously irrational, and yet it kind of kind
of soured my view.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
But for twenty twenty five, I'm.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Really breaking it into like do watercolor every single day.
That can include just watching a video or reading reading
something about water coloring, but like, every single day do
something that like connects me to the practice of water color.
And I want to do a postcard once a month
and send it to somebody, so that again it's like
that's something that like a January, I'll give myself a
(10:34):
check mark.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
In February, I'll give myself a check mark.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
One of my resolutions is to create stations where I
can work on it, so it's like, Okay, well, if
I'm doing watercolor, that can be kind of messy.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Where am I going to do it in my apartment?
Can I leave it out?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
It's out all the time, so I don't have to
constantly fuss with it. So I broke it into individual
steps so that I can be like, yes, I'm doing this,
I'm maintaining my materials. Yes I'm doing this, because what
I found is like I went, I loved all the
materials and like buying the paper and the pens and
the brushes, but it's like, okay, but you've got that stuff,
now you're going.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
To do the painting.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
So twenty twenty five is like, okay, not going to
put brush to paper.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
But I really broke it down and make it manageable.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Well, and the idea of sending a postcard a month
as a way to hold yourself accountable.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
For absolutely, Like there's a thing that I that I'm
aiming to do that will be satisfying. And I have
a book where it's like watercolor paper made into postcards.
So it's just like a very it will be a
very easy thing. It's all kind of ready to go, right.
But that is about accountability.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, And I imagine that's like one of the things
that people what you're talking about as you are setting
these goals. What people tend to get wrong as they're
setting resolutions is that they tend to be vague. They
haven't thought through what it's going to look like in
their actual days or where it's going to fit in
their schedule or in their apartment, as the case may be.
(11:56):
There's no accountability, Like how will I know if I've succeeded, right, Like,
I don't know, Like you could spend a lifetime learning Italian,
so it's kind of hard to say, like if I
succeeded at this goal or not. Yes, So, yeah, are
there any other pitfalls that people tend to have with these.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Well, we were talking about accountability, and I don't want
to get into my whole four tendencies personality framework because
it takes like a minute to go through it. This
is a framework that device people into upholders, questioners, obligers,
and rebels. If people want to learn more than can
goet to Gretchen roomin dot com slash quiz and take
the quiz and you'll learn all about it and all
will be revealed about your personality. But the key thing
(12:31):
for a lot of people is to know that for
the biggest group of people, obligers of the four, they
need outer accountability even to meet an inner expectation. So
if they want to read more, they need to join
a book group or you know, have an accountability buddy,
or tell their kids while you're reading for school, I'll
read for school. And if I'm not reading, you don't
have to do your reading, you know. So now your
(12:52):
kids are holding your accountable. They need accountability. Now I'm
an upholder, so I don't need accountability in the same way.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
But to your point, it's.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Satisfying to have milestones that you can demonstrably meet so
that you know, like I am making progress, I am
doing what I said I would do, I am seeing
that I am passing these milestones and so and again.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
It's sort of like training for the marathon.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Sometimes people think like, I want to if I want
to run more, I should train for the marathon. But
sometimes what happens is people run the marathon and then
they never run again, or they do thirty days of
yoga and then they never do yoga again. It's important
to think of things as milestones. These are milestones that
we will pass but in the continuation of a habit forever.
(13:35):
So my twelve postcards are important, but it's like it's
not like, oh, I've done my twelve postcards. Now. If
I just sat down and did my twelve postcards, I'm done.
Done every second, right, The twelve post cards are more
like to give me milestones of like, okay, I see
that I'm making progress, so that i'm and I'm moving
through it more than sort of like okay, now I'm done.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, and we want to make it doable in daily
life too. I mean, it's something like I'm to do
some watercolor, but you're not saying I'm gonna do six
hours of watercolor every.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Day, well exactly, and even saying something like I could
watch like let's say I'm stuck in a car. I
could watch a video on YouTube about watercolor and that
would count. I'm like, I'm going to lower the bar
a lot so that I don't feel like, well, I
have to abandon this because it's just not realistic. It's like, okay, well,
even if I'm just reading this article that I printed
out from the internet about.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
You know, what is dry on dry, I don't know,
you know, because I had such a bad tea shirt.
She didn't explain that to me. So it's like, any
little bit will.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Count because I think that's what's going to help me
build up those skills and that knowledge of her time.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Well, let's take something like you know, you know, you
had a resolution many many years ago with the Happiness
Project to make yourself happier over the course of a year.
But if somebody was going to do that, somebody said, like,
I want to be happier in twenty twenty five. Yeah, Like,
what are some practical things they could do?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Well, I have two answers, like a trans say answer
and a practical answer. I'll give the practical answer first.
Because people ask me this very question all the time.
I became very frustrated because I was always like, well, Laura,
it depends like what are your interests, what do you need?
Like what moves the needle for you? Like I have
to sit down and have a long conversation with you.
And people would be like, just tell me what to do.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Just ask for the first step, Gretchen.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
So now I have a quiz. It's called the Habits
for Happiness Quiz. Again, got to gretchenmove dot com slash
quiz and you can take it and it will tell
you not just what one should do, but what you,
Laura should do, because it takes you through actually not
that very many questions, and it really will give you
an answer that's like what is the thing that you
personally need to work on? Like where are you feeling
the biggest gap? What would move the needle the most
(15:39):
for you? So that will give you a personalized answer.
But if I couldn't talk to you, if I couldn't
ask you to take the quiz and figure out your answer,
I would say probably your best bet is to either
do something related to relationships or to your body, because
I mean, ancient philosophers and contemporary scientists agree that to
be happy we need to have relationships. So anything related
(16:02):
to deepening your relationships or broadening your relationships is likely
to make you happier. So maybe you've always wanted to
start a book group. That would be a that would
probably make you very happy because that's going to deepen
your relationship with other people.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Maybe you've been meaning to say.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Like, oh, I've got these five kids, I should make
a like I should make regular one on one outings
with them.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
That's probably going to make you happier.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
That's a good use of your time, energy, and money
because it goes to relationships.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Or also with the body, because our body, like our
physical experience, is always going to color our emotional experience.
So anything related to like getting exercise, getting.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Enough sleep, making sure that you're just like physically comfortable
like here, Like somebody was like, oh, I've been working
from home since like twenty twenty one, and I'm still
sitting on a dining room chair, Like.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
No, you got to get a proper office chair like that.
You'll be so much more comfortable.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Like your body as you work. Like that matters. That's
a good place for your time, energy, your money. Is
anything going to your physical experience or like baby there's
a lot of noise where you work and you really
need silence. Okay, you should invest in some noise canceling
headphones for you. That might really really improve the quality
of your work day. So I would say relationships or
(17:13):
your body, those are good places to focus unless you
want to take the quies that might give you a
much more refined answer.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Excellent, excellent. All right, Well, we're going to take one
more quick ad break and then we will be back
with more from Gretchen. Well, I am back. I'm interviewing
Gretchen Rubin, who is the co host of The Happier
Podcast the author of several books, including Better Than Before. So, Gretchen,
(17:42):
one of your you know Gretchen phrases, you always talk
about an atmosphere of growth. And I saw on social
media that you recently hosted your first Thanksgiving. Yes, Isa,
is this a growth experience for you?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
It was. I feel like it's a I feel like
it's an adult hood milestone to host a major holiday.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And in truth, I thought that I never would. I was.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
I was very surprised by myself and very and I
feel like I really did show that I have, you know,
the potential to do something that I didn't think that
I would ever do. And that's that that really was
very gratifying.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, excellent, And it just had never happened before. I mean,
you went elsewhere for Thanksgiving or.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
So I live right around the corner for my in laws.
My husband like lives right around the corner from where.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
He grew up.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I mean, you do not even cross the street. And
my mother in law is this amazing cook. And I
always go home to my parents in Kansas City for
the Christmas holidays, but we would spend Thanksgiving with my
with my husband's family, and so it was always just
like she would cook.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
And you know, that was just the way that it was.
But you know, over time, it just my my parents.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
And my sister and her family decided to come to
New York for Thanksgiving, and I just thought, okay, this
is my opportunity to step up. And okay, and I
have to say, like I didn't actually cook. I felt
I supervised. You made it. I did the table scape.
I made sure that we had everything we needed. I
I I got all the pieces in place, and then
(19:13):
and then then other people did the actual cooking. I live,
I live amongst cooks, So yeah, they were, I would
have had to like, you know, grab something out of
their hands.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
That they wanted to make.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
So that that was that was not the hard part.
The hard part was just like the orchestration. There's a
lot of orchestration of a large.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Of a large but hey, it makes you happy, right
to have lots of people gathered underwater.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
It was so fun. I see why people love it.
You really do.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
There is an excitement and a satisfaction of like knowing
that you're the one that's and then you know, you
do your little touches, like you know, we had these
like funny name cards that looked like turkeys, and it's
everybody's like, oh, these are so cute, you know, so
it gives you a reason to do you know. It's
a kind of creativity. It's kind of everyday creativity is
like is playing a meal like that?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
So I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, it's fun and it is definitely something that can
make a lot of work but make people very happy. So, Richard,
we always ask on this show, there's something that you've
done recently to take a day from great to awesome?
So is there something you've done recently that's like made
a day really really cool.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Oh what a great question. Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I mean I do this whenever I can, So it's
not like this is novel, But whenever I can do it,
I love it.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
And that's when I have a same day book and
the same.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Day book because I love, love, love to read, and
I love to binge read.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Where like, if I can have the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Where I'm really like just sitting on a sofa for
a big part of a day just reading, and the
same day book is when I can start and finish
a book.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
In one day.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Now it usually it is not a long book, but
many books are not long, and I just for some reason,
I feel like you experienced a book differently where you
really take it from beginning Middleton and in one reading
like it's like you pick up illusions and sort of
like you just have a better grasp of the details
sometimes because it's all just so fresh. And I think
(21:14):
some books lend themselves to reading over time, they kind
of sink in into a different way you can sort
of sometimes I feel like I'm just gulping down a
book as fast as I can, but I do I
feel like whenever I do that, I feel like there's
this is like a special treat in a day.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I love that. A same day book. I had never
heard it referred to ever.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Since I was little, I've called it the same day.
I don't know that anybody else uses stuf phrase, but yeah, no, no.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
We will.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Okay, yeah, you heard it here.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Look for those the same day books, the ones that
are short enough that you could conceivably get through them,
and in.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Everybody a great same day book. Read Foster by Turkey Agan.
It is an it's really a novella. It's a beautiful book.
It's a beautifully written book. It's uh, it's a book
that you will just feel like you spent your time.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Well yeah, and maybe just only a few hours on
the sofa. So yeah, we probably find the space for
it exactly. So, Gretchen, what are you looking forward to
right now?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
I am looking forward to water coloring.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
I think that's going to be great. I think my
family's going to get a puppy in twenty twenty five.
That's very exciting. I'm I'm planning a big like. I
love to read, and I have a children's literature reading group.
Actually it's like multiple children's literature reading group, and we
are hitting our twentieth anniversary in September, so I'm going
(22:38):
to plan a party for.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
That, which I'm very excited about. It's a big anniversary.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
That's one of the things that I've vowed over the
last few years is to celebrate anniversaries more. I think
somewhere often we were focused on the to do and
looking forward, and I'm like, it's good to have a
tada and remind ourselves how far we've come.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
And for some reason, twenty twenty five it is.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
A year where I have like fifteen major anniversaries happening,
and so that's one that I'm.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Really excited about.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I did a lot in two thousand and five for
twenty ten or nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Funny, it's funny, you don't I didn't realize it, But
actually two thousand and five was a super big year
for me. I realize now, and like at the time
I didn't think anything. I wasn't aware that I was
laying the groundwork for so much to come.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, well, I love the idea of selling you know,
anniversaries aren't just for romance, right that there? You know,
we think about it like a wedding anniversary or something
like that. Which of course should be celebrated, but right,
there's many other things in life that we may have
done for years and years and years as well.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, no, I mean the anniversary of like the first
time you're in it, Like for people who run marathons,
is like when did you run your first method? Or
like I do high intensity weight training and I was
trying to figure out, like when did I start? I
would like to I would like to get like the
smugness of gloating over how many years I've done it? Now,
Like sometimes it's good to like sit down and figure
out what is the anniversary so that you can you
(23:54):
can really celebrate it.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, well I have to only celebrate two years for.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Me on that. But yeah, yes, Erican is something.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
It's something I'm never gonna love it, but you know
it's it's it's good to do.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It's good to do, and it's so short.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yes, exactly. So, Gretchen, maybe you can give a quick
some of you for listeners where they can find you.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Ah, yes, so on my website Gretchen Reuben dot com.
There's like just tons of resources and articles. All the
quizzes are there. If you just look for quiz, you
can say, and I have other quizzes too that are
super fun. I love a quiz, I love to I
love a self knowledge question, so I love a quiz.
I have my podcast which is called Happier with Gretchen Rubin,
which is, as you said, I do it with my
sister and we talk about how to be happier, healthier,
(24:35):
more productive, and more creative.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's very practical too. I have a lot of products now, like.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I really I love journals and get kind of all
kinds of products that you can use to boost your
happiness or to make yourself more creative.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
And that's uh. You can go to my website and
look on the shop.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
I have a newsletter called five Things Making Me Happy,
which is every week I talk about five things making
me happy.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
And that's just super.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Fun, you know, to shine a spotlight on things that
are you know, just make me happy.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
And uh.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
But but basically, if you just look and I'm on
social media as Gretchen Ruben in all the places that
people go, so basically that's it. Gretchen Reuben dot com
will take you anywhere you want to go.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah, I was noticing one of the things that made
you happy. This stuck out for me finding out that
Anna Wintour had gone to see The Devil Wears Prada
or something like that.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
You know that The thing is she wore product.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
She wore product to it.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
She was the premiere, and I mean, I just thought
that is so funny. And she said I and and
and then they said what do you think of it?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
She said, I love it. Anything that, anything that that
makes the fashion industry more interesting and glamorous, I'm for it.
And I just thought it wasn't that? Isn't that funny?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Is it good to be self aware? And like, yeah,
the knowing knowing onseself is the.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I am the devil.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
I will wear Prada's very funny.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
All right, Well, Gretchen, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you to everyone for listening, for staying with us
through some of my longer episodes as I'm experimenting with
this format. If you have feedback for me about this
episode or any others anything you'd like to see, you
can reach me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
In the meantime, this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and
here's to making the most of our time. Thanks for
(26:27):
listening to before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback,
you can reach me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts
from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(26:50):
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Before Breakfast News
Host
Laura Vanderkam
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