May 28, 2025 • 26 mins
Professor and author Cassie Holmes shares research-backed ways to make daily life better
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning.
This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
episode is going to be a longer one part of
the series where I interview fascinating people about how they
take their days from great to awesome and any advice
they have for the rest of us. So today I
(00:25):
am delighted to welcome Cassie Holmes to the show. Cassie's
a professor at UCLA's Anderson School of Management. She is
also the author of the book Happier Hour. So, Cassie,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Thanks so much, Laura. I' it's a treat to join you.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Well, I am so excited to have you as well.
Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit more
about yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, So, I am currently a professor at UCLA in
the Business School, and I stay currently because I started
my career as a professor back in Philly where to
you geographically, But throughout my career I've been studying happiness
(01:08):
and looking at what's the role of time and how
does that play into things? And the last no offense
to us academics, but nobody reads their academic papers and
so about six years ago I was like, well, gosh,
there's actually a lot of insight from the research, not
just my own, but from across the field. So I
(01:30):
decided to pull it together and develop a course that
I've been teaching to our MBAs and executive MBAs at
UCLA called Applying the Science of Happiness to Life Design.
And when I saw the impact on my students, both
how they you know, their happiness and satisfaction and fulfillment
(01:50):
during the course, but also hearing from them years following
the course, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is
really exciting. And then when I was approached to write
a book, I was like, yes, because then more people
who gets it in my done week course can gain
from the learnings. And so I wrote Happier Hour, which
(02:11):
came out a couple of years ago, which is sort
of captures both the research as well as the assignments
that I give my students, some of which are very
much like those that you encourage in your work, Laura,
and so folks can sort of have some tools to
(02:31):
beat distraction, expand their time, and focus on what matters most.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Those are all things we are very excited about here.
On this show, and I will confess that I've actually
read some of your papers, Cassie, so you and like
three others exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
But I want to.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Talk a little bit about some of your research because
I think a lot of it is very fascinating and
does have practical implications for people. So a couple of them.
Just I pulled out a of happier hour that I
think would be really helpful for people. One of my
favorite ones is about treating our weekends like a vacation,
So talk about that. What does that mean and why
(03:12):
is that a new mindset that people might want to adopt.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, it's I love this work because it is so
easy to implement and I continue to and it sounds
like others do as well. And so it was actually
sort of spurred out of the research that shows that
taking vacation is so important for creativity and even satisfaction
(03:36):
and engagement at work. But so often people don't take
vacation because they don't feel like they have the time,
more the money, while they absolutely should and it is
something to devote time to. And even in the Gallup data,
the people's responses to whether they prioritize time for vacation.
It is a has a very strong relationship with satisfaction
(04:00):
in life and enjoyment. But given that we don't always
feel like we can take the time, we were actually like, well,
what if we actually made more of the time off
from work that we do have? Like every week most
Americans get the weekends quote unquote off from work, but
it doesn't feel like the break that it maybe should.
(04:24):
And so we ran experiments that showed this effect. So
in the experiment, we randomly assigned and it was among
full time American workers on a regular Friday leading into
a regular weekend. We gave some these set of instructions
treat this weekend like a vacation, and then we told
others treat this weekend like a regular weekend. That is it,
(04:47):
that is like as simple as it is. And then
on Monday morning, when they were back at work, we
followed up and we measured their happiness again. And what
we found that those who were instructed simply to treat
their weekends like a vacation and were significantly happier when
they were back at work on Monday, not only that
they enjoyed the weekends more. And then we're like, well,
(05:10):
why like, why is it that just telling someone to
treat the weekend like a vacation or individuals telling themselves
to treat the weekend like a vacation versus regular weekend.
And what we found was that there were some shifts
in how people spent their time. So people did do
a little bit less work or housework, they spent more
time in bed and eating, like you know, is reflective
(05:34):
vacation as well, right, But what was really interesting was
that it wasn't those changes in the activities people spent
their time on that actually predicted their enjoyment or even
their happiness on Monday. What did was their mindset. Those
who were treating the weekend like a vacation were more
focused on the present moment. They were more mentally engaged
(05:56):
in the activities they were doing. And what I think
is dry is that that sort of doing mode that
propels us through the week of like getting tasks done,
checking them off the list, then carries over into the weekend.
So then even if we're doing like social activities or
going to your kids' soccer game, it's still a task
(06:18):
that you're moving through and checking it off the list.
But when you're treating it like a vacation. What that
does is it shifts you out of that doing mode
and allows you just to be. You know, it gives
you that sense of like, you know what, Yes, you
might be at the soccer field for your kids game,
but it's not about a task that you're getting done.
(06:39):
You're like, oh my god, here I am sitting outside,
Folks are around me cheering from my kid. Like just
that vacation mindset licenses you to just take a break
and chill out and be in the moment. And it's
interesting because even like digging into the data we saw,
we ask people to in one of this studies to
(07:00):
like reconstruct tell us what they did sort of at
each part of the weekend. And in both conditions, the
vacation condition and the regular weekend condition, there were moms
that were had cooked pancakes for their family on Saturday morning,
(07:20):
but the way they described it was so different that
in the regular weekend was like, and I made pancakes
for my family, it was like absolutely a task. The
other mom and the one who is treating it like
a vacation, she's like, and we have pancakes for breakfast,
and we all sat down and it was just like
just like we're on vacation, which again that same activity
(07:44):
is experienced very differently when you're treating it like a vacation.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Absolutely well, fascinating stuff, in a very practical thing for
people to try this weekend. In fact, we're going to
take a quick ad break and then I will be
back with more from Cassie homes.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Well.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I am back with Cassie Holmes, who is a professor
at UCLA's Anderson's School of Management, which she's taught a
very popular class on happiness. She is also the author
of the book Happier Hour. So we're going through some
of you know, the greatest hits on the research here, Cassie.
Another one of my favorite ones that you talk about
in Happier Hour. You had a study where you had
some people help students edit essays, and you had other
(08:30):
people get a windfall of free time, like they were
just allowed to leave without doing whatever experiment they had
come in to do. Right, And I believe you found
some counterintuitive result about how busy or how much time
people felt they had with these two separate conditions. So
maybe you could talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, And I think it's so important particularly for your
listeners who I'm sure feel very time poor, like they
don't have enough hours in the day to get at
all done. And when we feel that way, one of
the consequences is that we don't spend the time to
help others out right there is when we feel like
(09:10):
we're busy and in such a hurry, we don't take
the time to help others. But in this work, we
found that actually giving time can give us a sense
of having more time, which is counterintuitive. Why does it happen? Well, then,
the study that you example showed for example, or talked about,
is that we had some people give their time to
(09:32):
help someone by editing their essay. Others got a windfall
of time. And in other studies we had them not
only get a windfall of time, but also compared it
to like spending time on themselves, so spending time on
someone else spending time on yourself. And we found that
those who spend time on someone else felt like they
had more time. And the reason is because it increased
(09:55):
their sense of self efficacy. That is, like when we
help someone out, like oh my gosh, I accomplished a lot,
it was only five minutes or fifteen minutes and in
some cases thirty minutes, but like, I accomplished a lot
with that time, and then it increases your sense of
how much you can accomplish with your time, more generally,
(10:18):
giving you a sense that you have sufficient time to
accomplish what you set out to do. Because time poverty
is a subjective feeling. It is how confident you feel
like you are able to complete those tasks that you
set out to do. And by increasing your sense of
(10:38):
accomplishment and efficacy and confidence that you can complete your task,
it lessens that sense of constraint from time. Now, I
will say a couple of caveats is if you give
away so much of your time that you really have
like none left, then I don't think it's going to
(10:59):
have this effect. Like in there is research that shows
that you know, long term caregivers feel very depleted and
lower sense of satisfaction because their time is not their own,
or if that time is taken from you, not that
it's given. I also don't think you'll have this effect.
It's really the sense of spending your time on something
(11:23):
that makes you feel like you've accomplished a lot, and
that translates into feeling like I have more time more recently.
Exactly along with that mechanism, my uh I ran a
study where we showed that the same thing happened with exercise.
So exercise is one of those things that we are
very quick to neglect when we don't feel like we
(11:43):
have a lot of time. But in a study that
we ran among my MBAs, we had them as one
of the class assignments. One week was to exercise because
that is a significant mood booster, and sother to carve
out time to exercise. And then what we did it
was we measured their sense of time poverty, or how
(12:06):
much time they felt like they had either before the
exercise or after the exercise. And what we found was
that after exercising, people felt like they had significantly more
time than before exercising because what the exercise did is
it was like, oh my gosh. It gave them the
sense like I have accomplished something and gives the greater
confidence in how you much you can accomplish with your
(12:27):
subsequent day. So I think these are both helpful sort
of things to keep in mind that when we feel
time poor, we do neglect these activities that really fuel us, right,
fuel us give us that energy exercise really sort of
being kind to and doing something for another person. And
(12:51):
yet even though we are tend to sort of neglect them,
if we go ahead and spend time on these particular
activities that really increase our sense of confidence and accomplishment,
that can lessen our sense of time stream. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, I would say that, you know, people who do
a lot with their time often feel like they can
do a lot with their done. I mean, because the
evidence is there they have, you know, So it's really
a self reinforcing cycle. And just one more because I
think this was also a good one too. It's about
making time feel more more precious by calculating how much
(13:31):
is left and that often we can have a different
mindset on it everyday activity by realizing how close to
the end of it we might be.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, and I think this is really important coming out
of my research where we found that there's extraordinary happiness
available to us in ordinary moments, but so often we
sort of miss those moments that are right there in
our days and how we're spending our time already because
(14:01):
of headonic adaptation, right, that is our propensity to get
used to things over time. So when you are doing
the same thing again and again you're with the same person,
they stop having as intensive an emotional effect on us.
And so it's good that we're adaptive in the face
of negative circumstances, but recognizing that we also adapt and
(14:26):
don't notice those the good stuff, we have to figure
out ways to offset that tendency so we can continue
to feel joy from life's choice. So one way to
do that is to count your time's left. Because just
because it's an everyday type experience now, it doesn't mean
that it's going to continue to happen every day, and
(14:48):
certainly not like it does now. And so an example
that I have shared is my coffee dates with my daughter.
So this is a weekly we've been going on our
weekly coffee dates since whatever I want coffee on the
(15:10):
way of dropping out or preschool. And now it's like
a half hour where the two of us spend together.
You know, she has her hot chocolate, I have my
flat white croissants and it's just the two of us
chatting for a half hour. Now, she's nine, while we'd
have our weekly coffee dates. Now, when she turns twelve,
I suspect she'll probably want to go to the coffee
(15:32):
shop with her friends instead of me, So it's not
going to happen every week, you know. And then she's
going to go off to college and then she's gonna
move to New York or whatever it is. And so
I did this calculation of calculating of our total times
of going on coffee dates what percentage is left, realizing
that we have about thirty six percent of our coffee
(15:52):
dates left and that's much less than half. What that
does recog and she's only nine years old, right. What
that does is it motivates me to make the time
to in those busy weeks, to make sure I make
the time. But as importantly is it makes me pay
attention because knowing that these times are limited makes me
(16:18):
put my phone away. So that's source of distraction or
also what you know, my constant to do list that's
running in my head, Like I was like, oh, what's next,
what do I need to But like, since I know
that there's so few left, or that they are in
fact limited, it totally makes me pay attention because this
(16:41):
is the time that matters. And so I have, like
in I've had by students calculate times left and some
of the things they've calculated, like dinner with their parents,
or taking their dog for a walk, or you know,
having dinner with their family, their kids, you know, around
the table, and recognizing that these things that are just
(17:05):
the fabric of our lives are precious. It makes us
show up fully and fully, and it totally makes us
pay attention and get experience the joy that is available
to us in that time already.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Absolutely, so much of life is just about paying attention
to what is there, to the good things that are
already surrounding us. We're going to take one more quick
ad break and then I will be back with more
from Cassie Homes. Well, I am back with Cassie Holmes.
We've been talking about research on ways to be happier
(17:44):
in our everyday lives. So you know, this is a
time management and productivity podcast, Cassie, so I'm very curious
if you have any routines in your day that help
you be more effective.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah. Well, we've already talked about mindset and actually the
of exercise. So one of the things that I and
I keep having to turn bind myself and experience the
benefits of it is starting the day instead of picking
up my phone and sort of responding to emails is like,
(18:18):
you know, getting my sneakers on and going out for
my morning run, because that time that I dedicate to
myself I have is the thinking. It sort of absolutely
shifts my approach to the rest of the day. Even
though I'm like, oh my god, do I have time? Well,
when I do it at the first thing in the day,
it absolutely makes me feel like I have more time
(18:40):
and it sets my mode for the rest of the week.
And another thing is so protecting that time for exercise
and for me early morning is key. Another thing is
carving out the time and putting my fun away, closing
out of email for that those work chunks where I
(19:00):
really need want to dig into the part of my
work that is so important to me, that's in line
with my purpose, that requires deep thinking. It's not just
reacting to emails. It is like where I actually need
to think, and I protect the time in my calendar
and I protect my physical space to not have the
interruptions so that I can get into those flow states.
(19:25):
And that is when we are in those flow states
where most creative, most productive, and when we come out
of it, we feel so great. And what's really sort
of a theme around all of my work is that
you know, it's not about how much time, it's really
about the quality of the time, and so making the
(19:46):
quality of that time for that important work, protecting it
so that I can I can sort of enjoy it
and make the most of it, because the rest of
the work day is filled with stuff, right like the
email that's warning the meetings. But this at least make
sure that I feel like I have been productive, that
(20:10):
I am sort of making a progress towards the things
that really matter to me.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Do you tend to do that first thing when you
come into the officers at a particular time of day
that you protect I'm curious how you do Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
For me, it is in the morning, so it is
my exercise and then I get ready, you know, like,
and then I go dressed, and then I start off
the day and I have that first three hours. And
I can't do this every day because there are other
days where I do have actually meetings. But I know
that I'm a morning person. I know that that is
when my mind is working at its best. But the
(20:45):
research shows that some people are actually night owls. So
I think the thing that's most important is for folks
to identify when within their schedule can they actually protect
the time and not getting those distractions, but also hopeful
aligning it when your brain is most on and it's
sort of fitting with the energy that you have for
(21:07):
that particular task. I mean, you know, my other times
that I want to be super engaged, like my date
you know with my daughter Alita, I don't want it
on Monday morning because I'm in the sort of go
mode and productivity mode. And so it's actually for those
it's more important to me, I like sort of particularly
(21:28):
place it in a morning and a time that I
actually do feel like I will be more likely to
settle in and down. And so it's now it's on
a weekend morning. I used to be on Thursday mornings.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, but it's all about knowing your schedule and knowing
yourself and making proactive choices about where you put these
things totally.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, And it's like we don't have control over all
of our time, but just for those things that are
really important is being very thoughtful and intentional and protecting
that time because other stuff will still in right. It's
like for me, the afternoons are.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Like Beanil is always there and I'm sure there's always
students who have something that they want, so yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well.
One thing I always ask guests on this show is what,
what's something you've done recently to take a day from
great to awesome.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I'm like embarrassed to share this.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
But it's probably beans it's gonna be good.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I have started doing tennis lessons on There's day warning,
and I literally like start my work day an hour later.
But it is so fun. It makes me like it
is so fun and it is an activity that is
(22:51):
the only reason I'm doing it is because it's fun.
And then it forces me into the flow day. I'm
like learning a skill, I'm moving that exercise, Like all
of these outside all of these components make it like
I feel guilty because I'm like embarrassed to share it
because I'm like, oh no, it's something that is just
for fun and just for me, but it has made
(23:15):
me so joyful. And then when I show up to work,
I'm like I'm ready, you know, and I'm much nicer
and kinder and more proactive to my colleagues so they benefit.
And then when I'm like home at the end of
the day, the kids, I'm like, oh, my gosh. You know,
here we are investing in their skill development and all
these fun enriching activities. I'm like, you know what, I'm
(23:36):
gonna invest in my time exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
What are the things we often talk about on the
show about a you know, it take one night for you,
but it could be one early morning for you as well.
But to do something that's not work, it's not taking
care of family, it's something that's uniquely for you and
that you find intrinsically enjoyable, and it changes your whole life,
Like totally, what's a week? That's all it has to be.
It just it changes everything about it. So, Cassie, what's
(24:01):
something you are looking forward to right now?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
I am looking forward to. Uh, well, I have mixed emotions.
I think I was mentioning to you. My son is
graduating from his elementary school, and I am looking forward
to the opportunity to sort of celebrate him with these
kids that he's been in school with since they were
like four, you know. So it's this it's a it's
(24:27):
an occasion around time of how much they've grown and
a celebration of the time we've had together and also
a sort of reminder of The Bitter Sweet is like,
you know, when he starts middle school, he will wave
at me goodbye and I will be less involved in
the campus. But it's it's the sort of transition of
(24:50):
growth as well as celebration of the time that we've had.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Absolutely well, I'm sure it'll be amazing. So Cassie, where
can people find you?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Well? My web site, cassiem Holmes. I am on LinkedIn.
I am not on other social media because I don't
enjoy it, so I don't spend my time there to
make sure.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
We have happier hours by not doing them. Absolutely absolutely well, Cassie,
thank you so much for joining us. Thank you to
everyone for listening. If you have feedback about this or
any other episode, you can always reach me at Laura
at Laura vandercam dot com. In the meantime, this is Laura.
Thanks for listening, and here's to making the most of
our time. Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've
(25:40):
got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach me at
Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast is a
production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts from iHeartMedia, please visit
the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to
(26:02):
your favorite shows.
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning.
This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
episode is going to be a longer one part of
the series where I interview fascinating people about how they
take their days from great to awesome and any advice
they have for the rest of us. So today I
(00:25):
am delighted to welcome Cassie Holmes to the show. Cassie's
a professor at UCLA's Anderson School of Management. She is
also the author of the book Happier Hour. So, Cassie,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Thanks so much, Laura. I' it's a treat to join you.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Well, I am so excited to have you as well.
Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit more
about yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, So, I am currently a professor at UCLA in
the Business School, and I stay currently because I started
my career as a professor back in Philly where to
you geographically, But throughout my career I've been studying happiness
(01:08):
and looking at what's the role of time and how
does that play into things? And the last no offense
to us academics, but nobody reads their academic papers and
so about six years ago I was like, well, gosh,
there's actually a lot of insight from the research, not
just my own, but from across the field. So I
(01:30):
decided to pull it together and develop a course that
I've been teaching to our MBAs and executive MBAs at
UCLA called Applying the Science of Happiness to Life Design.
And when I saw the impact on my students, both
how they you know, their happiness and satisfaction and fulfillment
(01:50):
during the course, but also hearing from them years following
the course, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is
really exciting. And then when I was approached to write
a book, I was like, yes, because then more people
who gets it in my done week course can gain
from the learnings. And so I wrote Happier Hour, which
(02:11):
came out a couple of years ago, which is sort
of captures both the research as well as the assignments
that I give my students, some of which are very
much like those that you encourage in your work, Laura,
and so folks can sort of have some tools to
(02:31):
beat distraction, expand their time, and focus on what matters most.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Those are all things we are very excited about here.
On this show, and I will confess that I've actually
read some of your papers, Cassie, so you and like
three others exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
But I want to.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Talk a little bit about some of your research because
I think a lot of it is very fascinating and
does have practical implications for people. So a couple of them.
Just I pulled out a of happier hour that I
think would be really helpful for people. One of my
favorite ones is about treating our weekends like a vacation,
So talk about that. What does that mean and why
(03:12):
is that a new mindset that people might want to adopt.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, it's I love this work because it is so
easy to implement and I continue to and it sounds
like others do as well. And so it was actually
sort of spurred out of the research that shows that
taking vacation is so important for creativity and even satisfaction
(03:36):
and engagement at work. But so often people don't take
vacation because they don't feel like they have the time,
more the money, while they absolutely should and it is
something to devote time to. And even in the Gallup data,
the people's responses to whether they prioritize time for vacation.
It is a has a very strong relationship with satisfaction
(04:00):
in life and enjoyment. But given that we don't always
feel like we can take the time, we were actually like, well,
what if we actually made more of the time off
from work that we do have? Like every week most
Americans get the weekends quote unquote off from work, but
it doesn't feel like the break that it maybe should.
(04:24):
And so we ran experiments that showed this effect. So
in the experiment, we randomly assigned and it was among
full time American workers on a regular Friday leading into
a regular weekend. We gave some these set of instructions
treat this weekend like a vacation, and then we told
others treat this weekend like a regular weekend. That is it,
(04:47):
that is like as simple as it is. And then
on Monday morning, when they were back at work, we
followed up and we measured their happiness again. And what
we found that those who were instructed simply to treat
their weekends like a vacation and were significantly happier when
they were back at work on Monday, not only that
they enjoyed the weekends more. And then we're like, well,
(05:10):
why like, why is it that just telling someone to
treat the weekend like a vacation or individuals telling themselves
to treat the weekend like a vacation versus regular weekend.
And what we found was that there were some shifts
in how people spent their time. So people did do
a little bit less work or housework, they spent more
time in bed and eating, like you know, is reflective
(05:34):
vacation as well, right, But what was really interesting was
that it wasn't those changes in the activities people spent
their time on that actually predicted their enjoyment or even
their happiness on Monday. What did was their mindset. Those
who were treating the weekend like a vacation were more
focused on the present moment. They were more mentally engaged
(05:56):
in the activities they were doing. And what I think
is dry is that that sort of doing mode that
propels us through the week of like getting tasks done,
checking them off the list, then carries over into the weekend.
So then even if we're doing like social activities or
going to your kids' soccer game, it's still a task
(06:18):
that you're moving through and checking it off the list.
But when you're treating it like a vacation. What that
does is it shifts you out of that doing mode
and allows you just to be. You know, it gives
you that sense of like, you know what, Yes, you
might be at the soccer field for your kids game,
but it's not about a task that you're getting done.
(06:39):
You're like, oh my god, here I am sitting outside,
Folks are around me cheering from my kid. Like just
that vacation mindset licenses you to just take a break
and chill out and be in the moment. And it's
interesting because even like digging into the data we saw,
we ask people to in one of this studies to
(07:00):
like reconstruct tell us what they did sort of at
each part of the weekend. And in both conditions, the
vacation condition and the regular weekend condition, there were moms
that were had cooked pancakes for their family on Saturday morning,
(07:20):
but the way they described it was so different that
in the regular weekend was like, and I made pancakes
for my family, it was like absolutely a task. The
other mom and the one who is treating it like
a vacation, she's like, and we have pancakes for breakfast,
and we all sat down and it was just like
just like we're on vacation, which again that same activity
(07:44):
is experienced very differently when you're treating it like a vacation.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Absolutely well, fascinating stuff, in a very practical thing for
people to try this weekend. In fact, we're going to
take a quick ad break and then I will be
back with more from Cassie homes.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Well.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I am back with Cassie Holmes, who is a professor
at UCLA's Anderson's School of Management, which she's taught a
very popular class on happiness. She is also the author
of the book Happier Hour. So we're going through some
of you know, the greatest hits on the research here, Cassie.
Another one of my favorite ones that you talk about
in Happier Hour. You had a study where you had
some people help students edit essays, and you had other
(08:30):
people get a windfall of free time, like they were
just allowed to leave without doing whatever experiment they had
come in to do. Right, And I believe you found
some counterintuitive result about how busy or how much time
people felt they had with these two separate conditions. So
maybe you could talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, And I think it's so important particularly for your
listeners who I'm sure feel very time poor, like they
don't have enough hours in the day to get at
all done. And when we feel that way, one of
the consequences is that we don't spend the time to
help others out right there is when we feel like
(09:10):
we're busy and in such a hurry, we don't take
the time to help others. But in this work, we
found that actually giving time can give us a sense
of having more time, which is counterintuitive. Why does it happen? Well, then,
the study that you example showed for example, or talked about,
is that we had some people give their time to
(09:32):
help someone by editing their essay. Others got a windfall
of time. And in other studies we had them not
only get a windfall of time, but also compared it
to like spending time on themselves, so spending time on
someone else spending time on yourself. And we found that
those who spend time on someone else felt like they
had more time. And the reason is because it increased
(09:55):
their sense of self efficacy. That is, like when we
help someone out, like oh my gosh, I accomplished a lot,
it was only five minutes or fifteen minutes and in
some cases thirty minutes, but like, I accomplished a lot
with that time, and then it increases your sense of
how much you can accomplish with your time, more generally,
(10:18):
giving you a sense that you have sufficient time to
accomplish what you set out to do. Because time poverty
is a subjective feeling. It is how confident you feel
like you are able to complete those tasks that you
set out to do. And by increasing your sense of
(10:38):
accomplishment and efficacy and confidence that you can complete your task,
it lessens that sense of constraint from time. Now, I
will say a couple of caveats is if you give
away so much of your time that you really have
like none left, then I don't think it's going to
(10:59):
have this effect. Like in there is research that shows
that you know, long term caregivers feel very depleted and
lower sense of satisfaction because their time is not their own,
or if that time is taken from you, not that
it's given. I also don't think you'll have this effect.
It's really the sense of spending your time on something
(11:23):
that makes you feel like you've accomplished a lot, and
that translates into feeling like I have more time more recently.
Exactly along with that mechanism, my uh I ran a
study where we showed that the same thing happened with exercise.
So exercise is one of those things that we are
very quick to neglect when we don't feel like we
(11:43):
have a lot of time. But in a study that
we ran among my MBAs, we had them as one
of the class assignments. One week was to exercise because
that is a significant mood booster, and sother to carve
out time to exercise. And then what we did it
was we measured their sense of time poverty, or how
(12:06):
much time they felt like they had either before the
exercise or after the exercise. And what we found was
that after exercising, people felt like they had significantly more
time than before exercising because what the exercise did is
it was like, oh my gosh. It gave them the
sense like I have accomplished something and gives the greater
confidence in how you much you can accomplish with your
(12:27):
subsequent day. So I think these are both helpful sort
of things to keep in mind that when we feel
time poor, we do neglect these activities that really fuel us, right,
fuel us give us that energy exercise really sort of
being kind to and doing something for another person. And
(12:51):
yet even though we are tend to sort of neglect them,
if we go ahead and spend time on these particular
activities that really increase our sense of confidence and accomplishment,
that can lessen our sense of time stream. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, I would say that, you know, people who do
a lot with their time often feel like they can
do a lot with their done. I mean, because the
evidence is there they have, you know, So it's really
a self reinforcing cycle. And just one more because I
think this was also a good one too. It's about
making time feel more more precious by calculating how much
(13:31):
is left and that often we can have a different
mindset on it everyday activity by realizing how close to
the end of it we might be.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, and I think this is really important coming out
of my research where we found that there's extraordinary happiness
available to us in ordinary moments, but so often we
sort of miss those moments that are right there in
our days and how we're spending our time already because
(14:01):
of headonic adaptation, right, that is our propensity to get
used to things over time. So when you are doing
the same thing again and again you're with the same person,
they stop having as intensive an emotional effect on us.
And so it's good that we're adaptive in the face
of negative circumstances, but recognizing that we also adapt and
(14:26):
don't notice those the good stuff, we have to figure
out ways to offset that tendency so we can continue
to feel joy from life's choice. So one way to
do that is to count your time's left. Because just
because it's an everyday type experience now, it doesn't mean
that it's going to continue to happen every day, and
(14:48):
certainly not like it does now. And so an example
that I have shared is my coffee dates with my daughter.
So this is a weekly we've been going on our
weekly coffee dates since whatever I want coffee on the
(15:10):
way of dropping out or preschool. And now it's like
a half hour where the two of us spend together.
You know, she has her hot chocolate, I have my
flat white croissants and it's just the two of us
chatting for a half hour. Now, she's nine, while we'd
have our weekly coffee dates. Now, when she turns twelve,
I suspect she'll probably want to go to the coffee
(15:32):
shop with her friends instead of me, So it's not
going to happen every week, you know. And then she's
going to go off to college and then she's gonna
move to New York or whatever it is. And so
I did this calculation of calculating of our total times
of going on coffee dates what percentage is left, realizing
that we have about thirty six percent of our coffee
(15:52):
dates left and that's much less than half. What that
does recog and she's only nine years old, right. What
that does is it motivates me to make the time
to in those busy weeks, to make sure I make
the time. But as importantly is it makes me pay
attention because knowing that these times are limited makes me
(16:18):
put my phone away. So that's source of distraction or
also what you know, my constant to do list that's
running in my head, Like I was like, oh, what's next,
what do I need to But like, since I know
that there's so few left, or that they are in
fact limited, it totally makes me pay attention because this
(16:41):
is the time that matters. And so I have, like
in I've had by students calculate times left and some
of the things they've calculated, like dinner with their parents,
or taking their dog for a walk, or you know,
having dinner with their family, their kids, you know, around
the table, and recognizing that these things that are just
(17:05):
the fabric of our lives are precious. It makes us
show up fully and fully, and it totally makes us
pay attention and get experience the joy that is available
to us in that time already.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Absolutely, so much of life is just about paying attention
to what is there, to the good things that are
already surrounding us. We're going to take one more quick
ad break and then I will be back with more
from Cassie Homes. Well, I am back with Cassie Holmes.
We've been talking about research on ways to be happier
(17:44):
in our everyday lives. So you know, this is a
time management and productivity podcast, Cassie, so I'm very curious
if you have any routines in your day that help
you be more effective.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah. Well, we've already talked about mindset and actually the
of exercise. So one of the things that I and
I keep having to turn bind myself and experience the
benefits of it is starting the day instead of picking
up my phone and sort of responding to emails is like,
(18:18):
you know, getting my sneakers on and going out for
my morning run, because that time that I dedicate to
myself I have is the thinking. It sort of absolutely
shifts my approach to the rest of the day. Even
though I'm like, oh my god, do I have time? Well,
when I do it at the first thing in the day,
it absolutely makes me feel like I have more time
(18:40):
and it sets my mode for the rest of the week.
And another thing is so protecting that time for exercise
and for me early morning is key. Another thing is
carving out the time and putting my fun away, closing
out of email for that those work chunks where I
(19:00):
really need want to dig into the part of my
work that is so important to me, that's in line
with my purpose, that requires deep thinking. It's not just
reacting to emails. It is like where I actually need
to think, and I protect the time in my calendar
and I protect my physical space to not have the
interruptions so that I can get into those flow states.
(19:25):
And that is when we are in those flow states
where most creative, most productive, and when we come out
of it, we feel so great. And what's really sort
of a theme around all of my work is that
you know, it's not about how much time, it's really
about the quality of the time, and so making the
(19:46):
quality of that time for that important work, protecting it
so that I can I can sort of enjoy it
and make the most of it, because the rest of
the work day is filled with stuff, right like the
email that's warning the meetings. But this at least make
sure that I feel like I have been productive, that
(20:10):
I am sort of making a progress towards the things
that really matter to me.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Do you tend to do that first thing when you
come into the officers at a particular time of day
that you protect I'm curious how you do Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
For me, it is in the morning, so it is
my exercise and then I get ready, you know, like,
and then I go dressed, and then I start off
the day and I have that first three hours. And
I can't do this every day because there are other
days where I do have actually meetings. But I know
that I'm a morning person. I know that that is
when my mind is working at its best. But the
(20:45):
research shows that some people are actually night owls. So
I think the thing that's most important is for folks
to identify when within their schedule can they actually protect
the time and not getting those distractions, but also hopeful
aligning it when your brain is most on and it's
sort of fitting with the energy that you have for
(21:07):
that particular task. I mean, you know, my other times
that I want to be super engaged, like my date
you know with my daughter Alita, I don't want it
on Monday morning because I'm in the sort of go
mode and productivity mode. And so it's actually for those
it's more important to me, I like sort of particularly
(21:28):
place it in a morning and a time that I
actually do feel like I will be more likely to
settle in and down. And so it's now it's on
a weekend morning. I used to be on Thursday mornings.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, but it's all about knowing your schedule and knowing
yourself and making proactive choices about where you put these
things totally.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, And it's like we don't have control over all
of our time, but just for those things that are
really important is being very thoughtful and intentional and protecting
that time because other stuff will still in right. It's
like for me, the afternoons are.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Like Beanil is always there and I'm sure there's always
students who have something that they want, so yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well.
One thing I always ask guests on this show is what,
what's something you've done recently to take a day from
great to awesome.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I'm like embarrassed to share this.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
But it's probably beans it's gonna be good.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I have started doing tennis lessons on There's day warning,
and I literally like start my work day an hour later.
But it is so fun. It makes me like it
is so fun and it is an activity that is
(22:51):
the only reason I'm doing it is because it's fun.
And then it forces me into the flow day. I'm
like learning a skill, I'm moving that exercise, Like all
of these outside all of these components make it like
I feel guilty because I'm like embarrassed to share it
because I'm like, oh no, it's something that is just
for fun and just for me, but it has made
(23:15):
me so joyful. And then when I show up to work,
I'm like I'm ready, you know, and I'm much nicer
and kinder and more proactive to my colleagues so they benefit.
And then when I'm like home at the end of
the day, the kids, I'm like, oh, my gosh. You know,
here we are investing in their skill development and all
these fun enriching activities. I'm like, you know what, I'm
(23:36):
gonna invest in my time exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
What are the things we often talk about on the
show about a you know, it take one night for you,
but it could be one early morning for you as well.
But to do something that's not work, it's not taking
care of family, it's something that's uniquely for you and
that you find intrinsically enjoyable, and it changes your whole life,
Like totally, what's a week? That's all it has to be.
It just it changes everything about it. So, Cassie, what's
(24:01):
something you are looking forward to right now?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
I am looking forward to. Uh, well, I have mixed emotions.
I think I was mentioning to you. My son is
graduating from his elementary school, and I am looking forward
to the opportunity to sort of celebrate him with these
kids that he's been in school with since they were
like four, you know. So it's this it's a it's
(24:27):
an occasion around time of how much they've grown and
a celebration of the time we've had together and also
a sort of reminder of The Bitter Sweet is like,
you know, when he starts middle school, he will wave
at me goodbye and I will be less involved in
the campus. But it's it's the sort of transition of
(24:50):
growth as well as celebration of the time that we've had.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Absolutely well, I'm sure it'll be amazing. So Cassie, where
can people find you?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Well? My web site, cassiem Holmes. I am on LinkedIn.
I am not on other social media because I don't
enjoy it, so I don't spend my time there to
make sure.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
We have happier hours by not doing them. Absolutely absolutely well, Cassie,
thank you so much for joining us. Thank you to
everyone for listening. If you have feedback about this or
any other episode, you can always reach me at Laura
at Laura vandercam dot com. In the meantime, this is Laura.
Thanks for listening, and here's to making the most of
our time. Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've
(25:40):
got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach me at
Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast is a
production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts from iHeartMedia, please visit
the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to
(26:02):
your favorite shows.
Before Breakfast News
Host
Laura Vanderkam
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