Thou Shalt Seek The Unexpected

Daniel Scheffler finds Jim Morrison in Paris, and decides fuck that city - with much love. Marisa and Aldo Melpignano from Borgo Egnazia weigh in on Puglia, plus the Savor podcast team shares about their life of food and drink as we plan our trip to Ethiopia. #travel

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, and welcome to everywhere. I'm your host, Daniel Scheffler.
The commandment for the week is thou shalt seek the unexpected.
Can you guess what the United Nations deems to be

(00:23):
the most visited destination on the planet. And if we
asked a handful of strangers on the street right now
where they would most like to go, what do you
think they'll say? Of course it's France, and it's Paris,
for better or for worse. I lived in Paris too

(00:45):
incredible yet tragically painful years. I speak French as mother's French,
blooded from the south of France. But still I was
always but a stranger in Paris, and when I wasn't looking,
it was rolling its eyes at me. What that city
does so well, so formidably and provocatively well, is lift

(01:10):
the chalice of culture above the skies. Of course, it's
too high for piffling earthlings to climb to, but also
just far enough for everyone to want to stretch out
and tingle in its moleste. Paris concedes with no allowance
for disagreement, to be the possessor of all things culture.

(01:32):
So if culture is the full spectrum of learned human
behavioral patterns. Then yes, Paris has given us the official blueprints.
Paris is a city that likes to go to sleep
a little too late, only to wake up behind time,

(01:53):
perhaps indicative of the ever controversial thirty five hour work
week and those long lunchers enjoyed not only by the
blue collars but by the white and gold ones too.
Mornings are spent with pastries in the blur of cigarette smoke.
As one of the only cities in the world where

(02:13):
smoking is still the avocation of all the city inspires
puffers to toke double time and offers the perfect gift
to non smokers, who have to scream fumes from their
mouths too. I bestow upon the a lifelong addiction set
in prisire the same way that animals have learned behavior,

(02:38):
Parisians possess something equally Pavlovian. They have it passed over
from generations of over finessed Paris grandmothers in the sixteenth
and overfed Paris grandfathers in the thirteen If you watch
Julie Delpi's film Two Days in New York, you'll get
a sliver of what flavored French relatives could be. Because

(03:02):
Paris works like this, you hardly eat as the helpings
on minuscule you day, drink any wine you can find,
and inappropriately sexual behavior will confuse you. And if you
can fit in as much swearing as possible into every conversation,
m fat Parisians will also teach you how to keep

(03:26):
a watchful eye on all fashioned disasters whilst drinking extra
scalded bitter coffee. These are just some of the markings
of a good Parisian, and it's somehow keeps them sane.
And speaking of coffee, searching for coffee in a standard
everyday Paris cafe is like searching for, I don't know,

(03:47):
a giraffe under the Atlantic Ocean. Of course, you can
attempt this armed with a wheel of a dockey basket
cheese to sink you down, but you'll realize is it's
a total waste of precious Parisian time, because all they
have is time. The French belief that dark roasting all

(04:09):
let's call it what it is, five hundred degree brule
makes it stronger and by such implication, tastier. Well, here
are some Paris coffee terminology, just to entertain you. And
Noisette sounding so wonderfully innocent is the stomach lining attack
with a joan of arc fury. A cafe creme might

(04:34):
thrill you with that fluffy, handsome sounding name. What what
you'll get is extra extra, one more time with feeling
extra pasteurized milk that will last for a lifetime, plus
a tiny spot of again burnt bitter soult coffee. But
don't bother with American drip coffee. The open jawned dismay

(04:57):
from your ever friendly waitress. Will you know that even
if you do get the desired format, it will be
more than disappointing and potentially rigged with some incendiary device.
So what makes the French believe that they have the
world's greatest coffee? Oh? Yes, the use of a French
press the worst way in the whole world to make

(05:20):
coffee unless you enjoy a strong acidity that's thin in
flavor and thick engrossness. Of course, the open display for
pollution and car fumes to come and sit on the
too old for use beans and invariably cheap machines may
add to the dismay that you're feeling by now. So

(05:42):
where did the great writers and artists get their caffeine rush?
If Paris cannot deliver a decent roast or bean anyway,
well maybe at home, or maybe they got their kicks
from Opium, the annoying beautiful scenery and architecture, or the
almost lawless people watching everywhere, or quite simply from the

(06:03):
most obvious, the free flowing alcohol, and once night falls,
it's in full gush. The city is no longer shared
with Voltaire, Hemmingway or even Horsom. They have finally retired
their postulations and cups of wine and decided to rest

(06:24):
peacefully somewhere away from the dirty streets and extra extra
small cafe tables. Paris has always stood in this messiness
of monarchy, empire republic revolutions, both equally inspiring. The city
hosts the snobbyist suburbs on the planet as well as

(06:46):
the trashiest ones. The bohemians have tried to own their
city with underground artists, squats and circuses, but the conservatives
never let go of their group on the official Paris representation,
thus giving way to the city of dichotomy, beautiful and

(07:07):
ugly in an umberto eco sense where both are needed
for the other to exist. So where has this muddle
of disorder left our city of love? The right Bank
is no longer in the opposition with the Left Bank.
The suburbs and the inner city are now the holders
of gloves, as they be labor and pulverize the visions

(07:30):
of a new greatest city. As the throb of Paris
romance continues to give the city the highest number of
tourists of any destination, a different perspective of love is imminent.
The bolted locks I see on the bridges represent an
almost desperate attempt to hold onto love's embrace. But Paris

(07:53):
feels differently about love. The same way that Paris residents
want the locks to be removed, this that he wants
to feel free again, free from your love, free to
find a new love. Well, I found some of that
at the Perla Chaise. As the evening wanted to commence,

(08:14):
my metro slowly found its way underneath these filthy streets
to the tourists cemetery so famed, so profound, that it
had become a reason for millions of people all over
the world to squash themselves into aeroplanes, tidy themselves onto
boats and cars, and line themselves up to trains to
get to this place. The symmetry of all cemeteries hosts

(08:40):
for me the most important musician to ever live, hence
why I braved the tourist masses. But apparently I'm not
alone in my love for the great Lizard King. For
most fans, the music will never be over. My determined
stride through the crowded cemetery is completely forgotten, as my

(09:00):
sole focus is on finding my gym. Paris was given
to Morrison, whether they wanted him or not, and I,
the little Paris Virgin, proudly stayed in his ex hotel
and the Left Bank. That's was when I arrived in
Paris for the first time, so it may have been
a hotel manager's version of tourist trapping. So finding the

(09:22):
grave is easy. I just followed the smell of Jack
Daniels and cigarettes. Jim is, of course waiting for me,
as he always will be. The stone on his grave
screams at me. Cataton dai mona s tos Google Translate
tells me, with no questions asked that it means true

(09:44):
to his own spirit. Unsatisfied, I text the Greek friend
who says it's more like according to his own demon.
I laugh, my non Parisian laugh that makes everyone stare
at me, and then the sky opens and peas all

(10:09):
over me like Jim would have done Paris. Paris. You're
always according to your own demon. So if you insist
and you have to go to Paris, I won't stop here.
But perhaps I'd love for you to find the most
unexpected things about it, because that's where the magic lies.

(10:35):
When a yuppy French stair master in the gym after
twenty minutes congratulated me for climbing the Turi fell, I
had to pause and think, why have I always wanted
to avoid the actual site of this iron lattice Paris Tower?
Could it perhaps be that flurry of begett carrying barret

(10:56):
wearing tourists that swarm around it as if it was
the lighthouse of culture? Perhaps? Yes, The tower held the
tallest man made structure in the world title for forty
one years until the Chrysler Building in New York had
to messens and required an easy to apply sixty tons

(11:19):
of paint every seven years to maintain a shine. So
what about all this engineered steel, vulgar stature and upkeep
sweat makes the tower the dernier cree of a city
so obsessed with haute cultier. Perhaps it is the iconic

(11:41):
nature of the edifice that has given Paris an arresting stardom,
unaffected by fame and fortune. Seemingly that is, the city
has clutched their ownership of all things culturally acceptable or
culturally permitted, and somehow that gave the city of life.
It's it's notoriety, but Paris, the sufferer of middle child syndrome,

(12:06):
did secretly want to appear to the world to be
greater than, more chic than Voila. The Eiffel Tower worked.
Its prestigitation undeniably appears at you from every corner of
the city, when you come out of the dirty metro,
when you pop your head out the tiny top window

(12:27):
of your attillier, and even when you wake from sleep
in one of the many manicured gardens around the city.
It doesn't smile down at the visitors queuing and snakelike
formations below. It probably would spit on them if it could.
But all the same visitors come and marvel at the engineering,

(12:47):
and Paris loves, oh loves all the attention. But of course,
my darling Paris will never admit to that. Let's take

(13:14):
a break to hear from our sponsors, and we'll be
right back with more travel from everywhere. You've been somewhere,
What say we go everywhere. Let's dive right in. I
sort of thought that I knew Italy better than any

(13:34):
other country, because I have been going every year for
my whole life. Well it turns out I know nothing.
Julia in the heel of Italy is undiscovered and still
feels untouristy and gorgeously unkept. The warm Adriatic Sea, the

(13:58):
endless amounts of olive trees, and then these white Massadia buildings,
which are old farmhouses dotted around the landscape. Well, I'm
here at Borgo Ignasia, a beautiful resort with the owners,
Mariza mel Bano and her son Aldo. They know the area,

(14:22):
they've been coming here for decades, and now they've put
it on the world map, combining a little bit of
Italian goodness and wellness. Okay, So, as I was saying
to you, for me, what's interesting is that everyone has
a reference point for Italy. You say the word Italy

(14:45):
and people think, maybe it's a car, maybe it's the food,
Maybe it's the countryside, Maybe it's the way of life.
The Dolte vida anything like that. But to me, I
think when you come to Julia, you have to change
your perception of Italy because it's so different and there's

(15:05):
something so authentically special about Puglia. Julia doesn't feel to
me as it's made for tourists. Big parts of Italy
is created for tourists. Julia feels to me as it's
created for Italians. For Puliza like it feels like it's

(15:26):
for people who are from here and understand here and
their friends and their friends friends. She's the little manic Ilbaroo.
She's on a storia in persant tourism and with someone

(15:51):
fortunaty but having that would tourist because we have always
been rich like this, because we have beautiful towns, wonderful cathedrals,
Romantic style, Baroque style. But Poulia is becoming more and

(16:13):
more popular just in the last years, and so we
are lucky because it seems like something new, but actually
it's it's our heritage. We have a huge culture, and
in the past tourists used to stop like in Rome
or Naples or some parts of Sicily. But now you

(16:35):
can discover Pulia as well, and you can discover something
that actually we always have had it's part of our DNA,
but for people coming from abroad it's something new. So
we are we're lucky because we have these treasures that
can be shared. Now, why it's so special to you?

(16:57):
It's a spiritual plans fearful me. Why how is it
spiritual for you? Common spirit? A spirit the I mean
the blind it relaxed when I live in this place,
I don't know what this not positive to spaity to explain.

(17:22):
But you're surrounded by lennial trees. Some of these trees
are like years old. When people arriving with me in
the Massidia, just when I complain the vi sp it's
something that you can't explain. But only when you arrive

(17:43):
here you can feel the energy of the place, and
it's thanks to these kind of trees which are huge
and very very old, so you can feel that you
are in a very special The people sleep very well.
Not my addiction, my my, my guest. I don't speak here.
I speak a really well. This is simplestan after the

(18:08):
one here, the job longer and this started to relax
the body and the song. The body and body and
mind can be very relaxed here I feel that you
feel that I sleep so beautifully. That's where I came
twice to come sleep again. Yes, tell me a story

(18:30):
about some experience that you think of all the time
about Pulia, about your life in Pulia, like something that
you think about my My life is a bit bit,
a bit happy. Why tuny I go to vendemia vandem

(18:54):
is when you harvest grapes when it's younger, when young
university one that she used to have a lot of
fun when it was the time of grape harvesting, because
she used to press the grapes with with with the feet,
you know. Yeah, no, no, even a campaign to tell

(19:16):
Dona Pomodoria pass and the legal lore us. You had
a lot of fun with their grandfather in the countryside
and with all the ladies that were working in the
countryside with tomatoes to make the tomato sauce. The small

(19:37):
It was very very happy. I had a very happy childhood.
Here a CampaignOn because countryside was part of her childhood.
Tell me some pulling wisdom suggests a po policy. They're

(19:58):
gonna primafy a chi primafi primafied. Yes, that you have
to do something and after that you can speak about it.
Otherwise it's just speaking legal course, because a lot of

(20:23):
people used to just to talk and talk and talk
without doing nothing. That's the best wisdom I've heard it
a long time. Ri Let's okay, you have to do
something and then you can show what you are just

(20:47):
through what you're doing, not just through words a question.
I said, yes, serious and concrete soul on that note
so much so. Here's Marissa's son Aldo, who also trying

(21:07):
to articulate just what sets Pulia apart from the rest
of Italy. I like to think about Pulia a little
bit of you know, how you see it in the
old movies and not that kind of feel, that kind
of vibe, and that's what you have here, and it's
it's kind of still there and still very authentic, and

(21:28):
you know some of that you have you've lost another
in other parts of Italy. Um explain that to me
a little bit more. It's just the the energy of
of of this land is it's kind of ancient and
you feel it, you know, when you walk around the
fields and you look at the trees and you meet
the people and you just walk around the towns. You know,

(21:51):
you feel some connection with you know, with with what
was before. I don't know how to explain it, and
I think people are people perceived that. And also because
tourism is only really developed in Pool in the last
twenty years, most places are not spoiled yet then people

(22:12):
actually live here. So in a lot of places that
are more sort of common for international travelers to go,
you kind of I don't really have the local community anymore.
While here, if you go to any of the local
towns in you know, summertime, but even so wintertime, there's
people there, they live there. You're sharing the same space

(22:34):
with the local community. In many other places in Italy,
now you go to a town and you know, maybe
there's there's a market, but you know it's just there
for the for the tourists. So that hasn't happened here
and hopefully will never happen. In fact, this is a
great moment for us to travel once again to advertising land.

(22:56):
Will be right back with more everywhere. Welcome once again
to everywhere. Let's hop back to it. Well, my next interview,
I'm spending some time with my new friends any Reese
and Lauren vogel Bound, the hosts of Sava and I

(23:18):
Hunt radio podcast that digs into how people live, how
they eat, and most importantly why any Lauren explore the science,
the history, and the culture of food and drink. Thank
you for having me on your show, and thank you
for coming on my show. Yeah, this is fabulous. I'm

(23:39):
so glad that we finally all managed to be in
the same virtual room at the same time. Yes, I
feel like I'm in the room with the two of you. Heck, yeah,
it's working. Okay, I suppose for the generalized record, the
first thing that I like to ask people is HI,
who are you? Well? Hi? I m Daniel Scheffler, and

(24:01):
I have this travel podcast called Everywhere, and it feels
to me as if it's a conglomeration of my life's work,
my life's ambitions, my life's feelings and emotions and processes.
And it feels like it's a collection of travel wisdom

(24:22):
that was given to me to pass on, challenges that
was given to me, and then stories of thirty five years.
So I've managed to put this into a podcast, which
has been the greatest joy of my life. So that's
the work me and the personal me, which I think
these two things I guess into mesh. At this point

(24:43):
in the personal me is you know, husband to the
most wonderful patient keyword patient together human that I've ever met.
Michael and father too, a little dog who's from Puerto Rico.
Be each dog Ella, who you both know. And I

(25:05):
was born in South Africa. I'd like to say I
was born in Africa, bread in Europe, and now choose
to live in America. So I'm, I guess a person
of the world. Yeah, and you've made a career out
of traveling, Like, how how did you get into that?
What was the line between I love doing this and
I am going to make this whole planet my mobile office.

(25:30):
Well I should have asked the two of you, who
are you too? So can we please because you coming
on my show too, Like my listeners need to know
who you are. Excuse me, I'm not used to having
this turned back around. I was so excited to do it. Well,
I am Annie Annie Reese, and I am part of

(25:51):
the co hosting team of Saber, which is a podcast
about food and drink. So this is very exciting. It's
a good fit. And you Daniel her friend far so
very happy to be here. Yeah yeah, um Hi, I'm
I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. I'm yes, the other half of that
Saver team. Um, we have a focus on on food
and drink, the science and culture and history of everything

(26:13):
that is ingestible and some things that are not, like
edible gold, but well it's ingustible, it's just not nutritious
right out poop it. You just poop it right out
and pay so much for it. I know it doesn't
even taste like anything such expensive poop. Uh. Yeah, And
and we we started the podcast Saver when Okay, we

(26:35):
had been in Austin for south By Southwest, and I
witnessed Annie like she had this map of all of
these restaurants that we needed to go to or that
she needed to go to, and that she dragged a
lot of us along too as well, and like she
knew what to order there, and she had made reservations
for barbecue there like three months in advance and all

(26:56):
of this other stuff. And I was like, oh man,
this lady needs a food podcast. M hmm, that's beautiful. Okay,
So to answer your question, Um, I worked as a
management consultant after studying kind of businessy degrees, and I
struggled for a long time to really find what I
wanted to do and sort of burned out in a

(27:18):
management consulting career, and I watched Eat, Pray, Love when
it was really that corny moment where I saw Julia
Roberts talk about how she felt her life used to
have meaning and now it had none. And I was
on a plane to India in a week, and I
sort of just went to India to clean yoga mats

(27:40):
and find my humility because I was just a spoiled,
white rich boy from Africa who had privilege, and I
needed to get rid of a lot of that. I
needed to go and just find myself in that kind
of corny, obvious way, but I needed to go and
under stand how I could give back, how I could

(28:03):
find humanity. And it helped that. I was, you know,
waking up at four in the morning, cleaning bathrooms for
curry eating ushroom goers and washing the mats of sweaty
Australian backpackings. And at some point I was standing in
the ganga after my teacher told me to kind of

(28:25):
leave all my bullshit and stand in the mother Ganga
until I've let that go. And I stood in this
water for a very very long time. I cried, I laughed,
and I just stayed until I had fully washed my persona.
I'd say fully, but as much as I possibly could,

(28:46):
Like I washed a persona away and I was able
to kind of really just step out of that water
and be like, great, I want to be different. I
want to make a contribution to this world. I want
to feel alive in a way that I hadn't been.
And that set me on a course because what I
wanted to do is right and um. I had an

(29:07):
English teacher at school who really believed in me, and
she sort of saw me and she was like, you
have talent, you should do something with this. And she
was the first person in my life that really saw
me besides for my mother, and it set me on
this course to New York. I sort of packed my
bags and moved to New York with nothing, and I
knew no one and I had nothing. My parents cut

(29:30):
me off and I had no idea what I was
going to do. And I was willing to tell stories
and write and travel. And the New York Times found me,
and Condonnas Trala found me, and it sort of snowballed
from there and here I am today. Oh that's amazing.
I Um, I mean I guess I. I like moved

(29:51):
to Atlanta from Florida. Anny, you got into travel, did
you sort of have a similar experien riants somewhere along
the line when you started traveling where you were just like, Oh,
this is me changing, this is like a paradigm shift. Yeah, absolutely, I. Um.
No one in my family likes to travel. They have

(30:13):
no desire to see anything outside of the United States.
And when I was younger, that never made sense to me.
So when I was nine, because I was a weird
nine year old, I wrote a like before I die,
here's what I want to do, and it was almost
all visit this place, this place, visit this place, and um.
And I was in college. For my major, I had

(30:35):
to travel to a different country every summer and get
a job there and work there. And so the first
place I went was Australia, and I was working with
the indigenous people in Australia, and I just felt this
opportunity of such growth because you're if you travel at
least by yourself, then there are no expectations of how

(30:56):
you should behave because no one knows you there, and
it's really freeing and really liberating and that was something
that I really needed when I was a college student,
like a chance to see, Okay, if you put me
on my own, what can I get up to? What
can I do? Who will I become? And I fell
in love with it and I got the travel bug,
as they say, from there, and I just wanted to

(31:17):
travel all the time every chance I possibly got. That's
I feel like I've never gotten that bug. Like I
travel makes me so anxious because I I can't control it.
I want to know what's going to happen. And of
course that's like literally not the point. That's that's the
opposite of what the point of doing that is. I mean,
And to be fair, like coffee makes me anxious, Like

(31:39):
I mean, so it's it's not a it's not a
short punt, but it's I'm getting more into it, like slowly,
and I'm making this like cautious hand gesture. It's like
you're dipping your toe in the water. It's a little cold,
but you're getting used to it. Yeah, I mean, because
of course, like different places are so beautiful, and I

(32:00):
mean for my purposes, I I my father was a
professional chef and a lot of the women in my
family cooked at home, and getting to try what is
home cooking for different people in different cultures is just
one of the most amazing experiences of just that kind
of shared humanity. That's beautiful. I like, then, thank you, Um,

(32:24):
You've got these travel commandments, since over over on our end,
this is a food focused show, um. Hypothetically some days
it's more Mary Kayton nashally focused. That's my fault. Thank you,
Thank you. Are are any of your commandments specifically about food,

(32:47):
about eating and drinking when you're traveling, Well, you know,
I think they all are about food and sharing a
beverage because there's more sharing a meal, because there's a
way that you find almost a new utral space, or
you find a place of common interest when it comes
to a beverage or when it comes to something to eat,

(33:07):
and it's such a beautiful way to experience the world.
So when I say thou shalt ignore thy smartphone, it's
because I don't want you to photograph your food. I
want you to share it and talk about it and
feel it and think about it. And when I interview
a chef like Mark Olive who's Aboriginal and from Australia,

(33:28):
it's about talking about indigenous ingredients and about all these
incredible proteins that someone like Paul Iscoff, another chef in
Australia has found, and how they are bringing back this
tradition that stems to the beginning of humanity. And then
when I say things like keep holy, the high and low,

(33:50):
it's like, yes, there's a place to eat at the
Michelin Star restaurant, of course, but there's also a place
to eating on the street, and those two things can
exist in the same way. So for me, the thing
that I try and talk about travel is you don't
have to stay at the best hotel or eat at
the Michelin restaurant. You can stay wherever. You can have

(34:11):
an adventure. The trip is about humanity and touching that
and how to find that and and meeting people and
food plays to me. Food and beverage play such a
huge role in that, and I think if we take
the judgment out of food and we take the expectation
out of food, we're able to have a real experience.

(34:31):
And the instagram ability, that's fine Instagram early one, but
just remember that it's about nature and about touching what
farming and regentitative farming is that's putting that meal in
front of you. Those are the things that I think
we should be thinking about every time you have a coffee.

(34:53):
Are you thinking about where this being came from? And
who which thinker is getting paid fair wage to do this?
Like I have an episode with Counterculture, my favorite coffee brand.
They're an independent kind of growing and I introduced you
to Emily that day, And in fact, I'm having lunch

(35:14):
with Emily after this and actually that's a trip we
should do Ethiopia. I'm going to Ethiopia with them. We'll
talk about that. There's some Indira in your future. I
love it. But that's the thing that I think. Michael,
my husband, talks about this. Alant and his business Organic Farmer,
is focused on this. He's focused on exactly that, like

(35:36):
returning to knowing where your food is coming from and
understanding that regenerative farming is what's going to save the world.
It's going to save the planet. We do we need
subsidies for organic farming. We need lobbyists to go and
bring organic farming to a much bigger stage in this country.

(35:58):
But travel forms part out of that because you have
to go to the middle of this country. To go
and see what farming is today. And then when you
are shocked to see what's happening in Kansas, then you
should go back to your plate and you should think about, shit,
what am I eating when I'm buying the sandwich at
the airport there? Yeah? Well, you know, don't you think

(36:21):
it's important that kids at school should understand where the
carrot is coming from. And it's not coming from trade
to Joe's or from a safe way or whatever Krogers,
It's coming from the earth. And what it takes to
be able to create a carrot like that. How many
days does it have to be under the soil in
order for it to grow? How many days does it
have to be kept in cold storage? And who's doing that?

(36:44):
Who's the worker that's doing that at an unfair wage?
Those are the things that we should be addressing. It
should be prestigious to be a farmer. It should be
the greatest honor in this country, the same way that
we are I don't know, the military. We should be
honoring farmers because they are the bones of what's making

(37:06):
this country great. Yeah and um, and they are also
putting themselves at risk every day. I mean, it's it's
hard work, it is laborous work, it is dangerous equipment.
It's frequently dangerous pesticides and herbicides that are in not
only in your literal hands when you're working in the field,
but also if you live nearby, they're probably in your groundwater.

(37:27):
But they don't get hazard pay. They probably don't get
full wage. Hoof. Well, I don't want to preach like
that's the other thing. Like to me, it feels like
there are times where like I talk about the stuff
and I feel like I'm standing on a soapbox preaching
and it really isn't that. It's not I don't mean
to preach. I mean to just inspire and to be like,
you know, do you know that almost all farmers in

(37:48):
this country have a side hustle because they cannot make
it living from farming alone. I just think that that's
something we should think about, sure. I mean also, you know,
like if you can't afford to buy whatever level of
organic or etcetera type of product, like there's no shame
in that either, Like do what you can, you know,
just be be aware and try to make other people

(38:08):
who have the financial means aware as well. Well. It
has to trickle down like it has to start from
the top. I don't believe in trickle down economics, but
I do believe and trickle down organic like it starts
at the top and people with money are able to
support that, and eventually there's a government sort of an
assistance and that filters down to the next level and

(38:29):
the next level. Because no one needs M and m's
and chips for lunch, no one needs fake cheese as
a meal for your children in the school. And it's
not about government overreach, It's about government support. And that's
what I believe in. Absolutely. Sorry answer to your question.

(38:50):
We love long answers, Yeah, all the time. I want
to ask both of you um, on your travels, are
there common threads that you've into how people approach food
and drink? And also on the flip side, are there
uncommon threads? Are there things that you've observed that are
just not part of Western culture that have really stood

(39:10):
out to you? M hm um. I'll say something that
I've noticed that I didn't realize I took so much
for granted in the United States. Is water availability of
clean water because I drink Laura knows I drink a
lot of water. And he is very well hydrated. I am,
I am. And being in other countries where they don't

(39:34):
just put it on the table for you, like and
having all of these what you've got to boil it
and you've got to do something else with it. That
was something I hadn't realized that I took so for granted.
Or like showers that turn off after thirty seconds, um,
things like that. And then I seemed to notice in
most places I visited a more relaxed atmosphere when it

(39:59):
came to eating, like I'm more, we're going to enjoy
this meal, enjoy it together. And I would have to
tell myself just just calm down. It's okay. It's gonna
take hanger than you're used to. Okay, things like that,
and like smaller things too, like more let's have let's
just have some tea and talk for a minute, or
just coming together over some type of food, a little ritual. Yea. Well,

(40:24):
I have a funny story. Do you remember when Obama
was buying um, I don't know. I think it was
a muffin or some baked good and he reached over
the sneeze God and it was the horror of the
lake and when I was in Europe this summer with
my husband. We were in Italy and I was like

(40:44):
touching things and looking at things, and Michael was like horrified.
He was like, I forget how you get in Europe.
You are so touchy and feely with the fruits and
the vegetables, and you just like you forget all safety,
health safety code. And I was like, well, the Europeans
seem fine to me, and I think that we're too

(41:06):
sanitized in America when it comes to these things, you know.
So that is something I see all the time where
I'm like, I'm in Vietnam and sitting on the street.
There is a man with a giant pot bigger than
a scooter, and he's stirring the spot and basically anything
could fall into that part. There's space for, you know,

(41:29):
a small army to get in, and he's making like
this beautiful stir and I'm not asking what's in there.
I don't care. The line is around the block. People
are ganging up for this thing, and he sells out
before the sun goes down. Of course, I'm going to

(41:50):
eat that health and safety out the window. And perhaps
that's you know, it's not the safest thing to do.
But in some ways, I'm like, I'm in a of
and do that. I remember the first time I went
to Europe and I saw that they had the eggs
they weren't refrigerated, and I was so shocked. Yeah, I

(42:12):
was like, do they know it's not? Of course? Um
and something else I I love And I think this
is true pretty much anywhere. But people are so eager
to share their food with you and the stories of
it and like how their family has made it. And
then they want to hear about your food stories too,
So I think that is something that's really beautiful. You travel,

(42:34):
food gives you an opening for sharing and an opening
to be kind. Oh yeah, the way in my heart
is absolutely through my stomach. If you if you want
to get on my good like first thing, just just
be like here, like, have a bite of this, and uh,
I hope it's not annoying when when we're all on
trips together, we all, you know, well, we'll be at

(42:56):
dinner and I'll be eating something and I'll take a
few bites and I'll be like you, guys, all you
have to try this. You have to try this, and
I'm gonna tell you how to compose the bite and
I'm going to Oh, I enjoy it. I appreciate it,
tell you what order to do it in and like
everyone has to have some I don't know, I don't
know what it is. It's it's just such a wonderful
Like it's such a visceral experience. And I think there's

(43:20):
are so few situations where, um, you can share a
visceral experience with someone who you're not like, like bodily
intimate with, And yeah, whod is one of them. I
think that everyone has had experiences on the road of um,
like not knowing how to find something that's local and

(43:41):
that's good or um or you know, just settling for
like mediocre hotel food because you're tired and you just
don't have it in you. Do either of you have
any suggestions, like like advice for listeners about how to
avoid that sad hotel burger. Oh boy, I'm never having
a sad hotel burger. I think I'd rather stuff. No,

(44:03):
I probably have a snack with me. I don't need
to have a sad hotel burger. Um. I have this
thing where when I travel I type in the words
pour over and then I enter the city that I'm
going to, and it's been very useful to me because
if they're serving a poor over or a chemics, the
chances are that they actually give a shit about the

(44:25):
way that they're preparing their coffee or where they're getting
their beans from. And that usually leads me to like
away into a city and a way into a community
and a sort of set of people. And associated with
poor over coffee is usually food that is related. So
if I go to um Costa Rica, I'll put in

(44:47):
like San Jose, pour over coffee, and I'll find some
cute coffee shop and I'd go there and that person
I could be like, where would you eat? And they
would tell you. And that's worked for me in montevide You,
it's worked for me in Nairobi, And it's kind of
this little thing. Coffee is like a way to get
into this world. That's actually the second time we've heard

(45:09):
that about coffee. If I'm that fascinating. Yeah. One of
our interviewees in in Asheville, North Carolina, was talking about
how coffee, like good coffee, is sort of the entrance.
Like if you can convince people to give a ship
about coffee, and you can convince them that other food
should be good. Yeah, I agree. Excellent. Well, thank you,
thank you so much for jumping on the line with us, ladies.

(45:32):
I bid you farewell, I adore you, and I will
hopefully see you very soon. Excellent. Yes, thank you so much.
Thank you. We're in the midst of planning our trip
to Ethiopia, and if you want to hear more from
Annie and Lauren, you should listen and subscribe to Sava,
which is available anyway you get your podcasts. Well, thank

(45:55):
you for making this trip with me. As always, I've
had a blast. If you'd like to reach out, connect
with us on Instagram and Everywhere Podcast. A big shout
out to my executive producers, Christopher Hastatis and the loveliest
Polly Fry, my lead producer and editor who I couldn't
do anything without the Chandler Maze and my co editor

(46:18):
and composer of the beautiful Everywhere score, Tristan McNeil. I'm
your host, Daniel Scheffler, and don't forget good boys go
to Heaven, Bad Boys Go everywhere.