August 25, 2020 • 28 mins
After a viewing of a TV movie revealed to Becky what her biological mother had done, her life took a turn towards rebellion. Now, twenty years later, she's still dealing with the consequences of that discovery
Melissa G. Moore: IG @melissag.moore; Tik Tok @melissa.g.moore
Lauren Bright Pacheco: www.LaurenBrightPacheco.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Jackie, to me, epitomized everything that a person would want
in a mom. She was patient, she was caring, she
was affectionate, physically affectionate with the girls, which both Chris
and Jackie were like that. But she was definitely very
maternal and even with me. I mean, gosh, I can't
even tell you how many times I would go to
(00:23):
her and cry about something. I went to her for
advice all the time. I absolutely looked up to her,
and she was so nurturing in everything that she did.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
The voice you heard belongs to Elena, a woman who
babysat Becky and her sister for many years. Now thirty
four years old, Becky lives a normal life like everyone else.
But what's unusual about her story is that her biological
mother is convicted killer Diane Downs, ordered by the state
to place Becky then Amy up for adoption. She went
(01:05):
to live a peaceful life with her adoptive parents, Jackie
and Chris and bend Oregon. Becky had a great home life,
and her parents provided her with a good home environment
and treated her well.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
They were amazing. I mean, we had eighty acres, we
did forage and had horses and all the animals you
could think of. We lived on the river. It was
a deal to be a place to raise children, and
so my sister was adopted first, and then four years
later my parents adopted me.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Elena is a very same babysitter whom Becky tricked into
revealing her biological mother's identity. Alena remembers the interaction from there.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I went to the bookstore and I had to have
my parents take me, obviously because I was a kid,
And I found the book by Anniual and I thumbed
through the pages and went straight to the pictures. That
was like the moment reality set that this woman is
actually my biologic mom. And more so, the reality said
that my parents weren't my real parents. I always knew
(02:07):
they were not my real parents, but it was the
fact that now there was this third person. Now there
was reality of who my biological mother was. I think
it had been three years of asking that. It just
I didn't think i'd ever know, And at that point
I wish I hadn't known. It was really scary.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Becky was able to mostly forget about Diane for a
few years.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
It was that answer to the question, you know, and
so I was able to let that go, and it
was more of just the needing to know, and now
that I knew, I didn't want to know, so I
just kind of buried it deep.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
It stayed buried for a while until Becky decided to
share her secret.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
When I was sixteen, I had told a boyfriend who
Diane Downs was, and it was just during that get
to know you phase. You know, he had asked if
I had anything that I never told anybody before, you know,
a secret, and that was the biggest secret I had.
So I told him. One day he said, you know,
let's watch a movie. Come on over to my house.
(03:08):
I remember sitting on his puton and he popped the
tape in and then he left the room to go
make snacks or something, and that's when it started playing.
And you know, you see the small sacrifices. It was
difficult to watch Barack faucet as dining down and to
(03:31):
let that story unfold in front of me. You can't
look away. But I did not want to watch it,
but I couldn't stop watching it.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
At the bookstore, Becky saw the pictures of her mom
in the book but didn't read it. So watching this
was the first time she'd heard the entire story.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I don't even know the words to explain how it felt.
It killed a little part of my innocence in a sense,
just to know that that's really where I'm biologically from.
And I felt so stupid looking back, wanting to know
for so long, And I understand why my mom didn't
want to tell me.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Becky finally understood where she had come from and the
woman who had given birth to her.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
The part that really got me was when Diane was
holding that baby that was a representation of who I am,
and it became real, It's like that's me in a sense,
and the fact that she held me and it was uncomfortable,
really difficult to watch.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
After the discovery of who her biological mom was, Becky's
behavior shifted towards rebellion.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Looking back now as an adult, I can see that
it affected me greatly because it was the beginning of
my rebellious years, and perhaps that information and not dealing
with it appropriately and emotionally that it caused me to
go off the rails a little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Becky came to resent the secrecy and the hidden facts
about where she came from. She also saw part of
her identity in Diane not being prepared emotionally to the
jarring physical resemblance to Diane, causing her to question who
she was.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
After I saw the video and really got the full
idea of who Diane downs was, I just kind of
stopped caring. I shut down inside somehow. And I had
already been pretty rebellious, but at that age it was
more destructive rebellion, self destruction, partying, sleeping around, drugs, running away.
(05:47):
You know, I wasn't living at home at that point.
It was scary. I guess looking back now, I'm amazed
and I'm still alive by some of the situations I
would put myself in. At seventeen is when I decided
that I'm going nowhere in life and I'm just a
(06:07):
disappointment to everybody. So I needed to do something, and
I joined the Army, and the day that I shipped
out for boot camp, they told me I was pregnant.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Before being shipped off to boot camp, recruits are subject
to a battery of tests, and for women, this includes
a last minute pregnancy test.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
As I walked by and they said, okay, everybody's clear.
And as I walked by, I looked down at him
and there's one positive and I was like, excuse me,
you know, it's like is that mine? And they're like, oh,
my gosh, sit right here, and they made me wait
for hours. They didn't tell me anything. They did call
(06:50):
my dad though, because I was seventeen, and they called
and told him, and that was awful.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
I told before you yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I begged them. I said, please, don't tell my dad.
You know, he can't let me at least tell him
that I'm pregnant.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Becky's parents were supportive to an extent, but for the
most part, she was on her own.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
After finding out that I was pregnant, I stayed in
Portland for a while and continued to hang out with
some of the same people that weren't very healthy for me.
I wasn't doing any drugs. I quit smoking and I
talked with my dad and I tried to come home,
but they said, you know, we raised our children. This
is something you need to do on your own. They
(07:30):
paid for me to have a house so I could
raise my child, and my dad said that every parent
needs to be home for at least the first two
years of a child's life, so they helped me for
the first two years, even though I couldn't live with
them and they wouldn't like, really help me raise him,
they were there the whole time, and they made it
possible that I could have my child and that I
(07:51):
could take care of them and be that hands on parents.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
With Christian, Becky discovered that she loved being a mom.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
At the beginning, when Christian was a little well, I
didn't have time to think, you know, sleep deprived and
always caring for a little baby. I loved being a mom.
I never really worried about my genes transferring to him.
He was perfect in my eyes. Maybe it's how my
mom felt when she looked at me, you know, and
accepted me, and so their family is. I just didn't
(08:20):
see any negative things or anything bad. I just saw
this perfect little child, and so I didn't worry who
he was going to grow up to be.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Becky started dating a coworker and fell in love, and then,
by choice, Becky got pregnant a second time.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
At that point, things started to go wrong. Before we
got pregnant, we drank a lot. We were still partying
quite a bit, and I had to sober up and
do things right because I was pregnant. We just realized
we didn't really like each other anymore, and we didn't
know who each other was without the alcohol and staying
(09:04):
up all night partying and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
And then things got worse. Without warning, the father of
a child just left.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I was just destroyed. I was heartbroken. I was pregnant
with my second child. It was you know, I couldn't
afford where I was living because I couldn't work. It
was a high risk of pregnancy. I was bedridden for
most of it. I didn't want to give up on
our family, so I ended up staying in a homeless
shelter because I couldn't work.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
After speaking to her parents, Becky decided the best option
would be to put the second child up for adoption.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
They said that if I would think about adoption and
do what's best for both the children, that I could
stay with them till the baby was born. And they
were right. I was homeless, I was a single mom.
I couldn't raise two children, even though it even though
I really wanted to. I didn't want to give my
son away, but it was what's best for both of them.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
The birth of Becky's second child was emotionally and physically challenging,
so that.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
It gets to the point where it's time to be induced.
Because it was the highrist pregnancy, they wanted to just
kind of, you know, move things along. I was there
by myself because my family was too hard on them.
It broke their heart to let him go as well.
It hurt in so many ways, you know, emotionally and physically,
and everything just hurt. And then he was born and
(10:33):
he was perfect. They told me, you know, that I
could spend as much time with him as I wanted,
and you know, just told him. But I knew that
if I didn't let him go, that I would never
let him go. They just had to take him. Because
I didn't let go. I was devastated, and I didn't
(10:53):
know who to talk to. I didn't know anybody else
that had put their child up for adoption and had
that loss. For some reason, I thought about contacting Diane.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I understand how she felt. I too did a similar thing.
I had reached out to my father in a letter
to his prison as a teen, telling him about my abortion,
thinking I find a soft place to share that he
couldn't be judgmental as he was serving multiple life sentences.
It doesn't make sense logically, but in the moment of
(11:26):
desperation and a need for connection. He was the only
person I thought would be in a place to listen
and to care.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
One night, I was especially sad, and I just wondered
if Diane ever felt what I felt in that moment.
I just needed somebody that I could relate to. I
didn't need a mother, I had one, but I needed
somebody that had been through it, and she went through.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
It with me.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
There was that connection. It was my biological mom who
held me and who let me go, And for that
brief moment, I just wanted to know that she was human.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Becky reached out with a fairly ordinary letter, just describing herself,
and Diane responded.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
She responds fairly normal. The first letter, actually, it was
telling me what she looked like, and where she was born,
and just general really nice things. I got the letter
and I was almost like, Okay, this isn't so bad.
Maybe I didn't make a mistake in writing her. Because
after I put that letter in the mailbox, my heart sank.
(12:34):
I was just what did I do? Why did I
do that? Ever since the day that I sent that
first letter, I was terrified of what the letter coming
back would be, but it was excited terrified.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
The correspondence with Diane didn't last long.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I think there was only like six letters in total exchanged.
I wrote her my first letter about a week and
a half later, so she had to have written me
that day that she received a letter and sent it back,
because it was a very quick turnaround. And so then
I responded, you know, a few days after receiving her letter,
and I think that I in this second letter, I
(13:11):
asked about my biological father, and I asked who he
was and if I could know him and where he was.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Diane was a clinical narcissist and couldn't stand the idea
that the focus was no longer on her.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
She just got angry and said she was never going
to tell me and why would I ask those questions?
And I don't need to know, and just avoided it
in every way possible.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
After writing to Diane for a while, she begins to
see the parallels between their lives and behavior. Becky begins
to wonder if she's a psychopath just like Diane.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
So talking with her, and I said, you know what,
if at some point you would like to tell your story,
I could help you get your story told.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Somewhere after Eric's first meeting with Becky, he began to
explore the idea that he could be the person to
help tell her story, to finally give her a chance
to let the world know about her from her own
point of view.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
I think there was this sort of this Diane shaped
void inside of her that she's always trying to bring
the drugs and the men and everything too. I mean,
she would talk about really sort of crying out to
God and saying, please help me. I don't know who
I really am. Am I just the daughter of this
(14:42):
crazy killer? Or am I this person who's going to
have my own life and my own identity and I
don't want to be known as the daughter of Diane
Downs anymore.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
By going to the media, this was a way for
Becky to take back control of her identity.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
It was this thursd and this quenched for identity. But
also in addition to identity, it was also how much
do I want Diane to be a part of my
future going forward? How far do I let Diane in?
I think at the end it was, you know what,
I'm satisfied with that, and now I'm going to move
(15:22):
on and I'm going to decide what I want to
do with my life in terms of I'm going to
do to help people and be a person who's kind
to other people.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Eric teamed up with a reporter from The Oregonian, Lisa
Grace Ldneiser, and he began to shop the story around.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
And at the time, I had really no idea what
I would do or how I would do it. But
Lisa and I approached several magazines and all of them
were like, how we'd loved that story.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
After some wrestling with their own ideals about how they
wanted to present the story, Eric and Lisa finally decided
to work with Glamor Magazine.
Speaker 6 (15:58):
Well, I mean, there was that debate like, am I
just you know, a con do it in another tawdry
story about a killer? Or is this somebody who is
as a microcosm of what you find out when you
find out your family secrets? And is this a bigger
story about family secrets and what to do with them
(16:18):
once you find out about them? And so when we
sort of came from that angle, and then Glamour said
we'll take care of a sidebar about what happens when
you find out you know that you're related to this
over here. Then it seemed to take on more of
a little bit more of a public service story in
terms of that everybody has this dark side of a family,
(16:42):
the pedophile, the murderer, the person who did something ended
up in prison, and how to handle that.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Becky didn't make telling the story easy. She would be
cooperative at times and not at others.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
Well, it was tortuous at times. I mean, some days
she was really up and ready to tell her story,
and Lisa and I had gone over and rented a
condo for three or four days, and she would come
and talk at length about it, and then she'd drop
(17:17):
off the face of the earth for a couple of
weeks and you wouldn't hear from her.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Becky's parents didn't respond well to her sudden interest in
outing herself in the media, and her diminishing relationship with
them at the time made the experience even more difficult,
not only for Becky but for Eric and Lisa as well.
Speaker 6 (17:37):
I think that they sort of made a decision to
step back from helping her. And so it was up
and it was down, and it was God and the
devil and light and dark and all these things, and
that she was influenced by sometimes very small things, and
those very small things became big things. And so sometimes
(17:58):
the article was really on and really going, and then
other times it looked like it was going to blow up.
So part of the debate was are we writing an
article about something or are we being taken on a
ride that's never going to be an article anywhere for anyone,
and that we're just going along on this ride and
we're going to end up at the bottom of a
(18:19):
ravine in the rocks, And we wanted to be responsible
with somebody's life who was about to share their biggest
secret ever.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
The article was published June twenty ten, and Becky's story
is officially out there in the world. This led to
many more media opportunities for Becky.
Speaker 6 (18:37):
I'm not sure quite the timing of this, but Oprah
is finally winding down her show and Oprah says, would
you like to be on with me? And she comes
up very well, on Oprah, did you have you seen those.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
I didn't watch her tape yet with oka.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
During the Oprah appearance, Oprah replays a clip from a
nineteen eighty eight interview with Diane where Oprah tries to
find out the identity of Becky's father, but is only
given what Diane claimed was the date of conception, which
at the time was the only clue into her biological
father's identity that Becky had. There was only one other
(19:14):
person who supposedly knew the identity of Becky's father, and Rule.
Becky met with her on The twenty twenty Piece when
the show did a two hour feature on Becky in
the case and took her to meet Anne. When Becky
asked Anne Rule who her father was, she refused to
give out his name.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:36):
I think Anne had made like a journalist deals to
get the story and be able to keep the anonymity.
And we all understand that. And I've figured, well, I mean,
to be able to get that story, you've got to
promise whatever the person was to do.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
I get this sense that he's right underneath our nose,
that he's right in the area. I get the sense
that he also knows that she exists well.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
And I think the reason that you're probably right is
because Anne was able to have what appears to be
a conversation and that I think it's based also on
the fact that she was a best selling author and
people would come to her with details. It's like people
(20:31):
would stumble over there themselves to get her the story.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Anne Rule passed away in twenty fifteen, and thus the
mystery of Becky's father remains. She's wondered who he is
almost as long as she's known about her mother.
Speaker 6 (20:45):
I mean, it would answer a lot of questions. She
was talking about that since the day she walked into
the pizza parlor. That's what she wanted, and that's what
she hopes for, and she believes that it's just right
around the corner.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I came to meet Becky Baucock ten years ago while
filming a documentary. We remained in contact through Facebook and
discussed the backlash we'd sometimes received by coming forward in
the media. Some people few believing we saw attention or fame. Others,
knowing our true intention, are desired to connect with others
out there so that they don't feel alone that there
(21:29):
are other women and men just like them who are
related to perpetrators. In Becky's case, she didn't know who
her biodad was. I already knew my entire family background,
which tremendously helped me to navigate my identity. So I
wanted to help Becky get the answer she needed to
know she isn't just like her mom, that part of
(21:50):
her is also rooted in another family, another story.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I think it would be an interesting journey to go on.
I have a little bit of a disconnect from Diane Down's.
I never referred to her as my mom, and if
anybody does, I quickly correct them and say biological because
I was blessed to have great parents, which I talk
about all the time because I want them to know
(22:16):
that even though I'm going on this journey, it has
nothing to do with them not being good parents.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
It was ten years ago now that I first came
forward with my secret. I had hidden the fact that
my father was a serial killer because I was terrified
of the public reaction and the potentials fallout it would
have on my kids and myself. So I know exactly
the risk when it comes to answering the call to
find the truth. There is no control. Had I remained silent,
(22:46):
I would have probably never have met Becky or the
numerous others that have reached out to me that have
a killer in their family.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
So it's such a positive experience, and so I thought,
I know that in my case, I had a lot
of answers, and then you're case, you have so many questions, right.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
The other voice you're hearing is me. I had lost
my voice on the day of this interview.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
I do want to go on a journey to figure
out who I am, where I came from, why I
do the things that I do, And in a sense,
I want to know all that so I can leave
it in the past. I can stop all those questions.
I can shut down that chapter and move on. And
I think that that's really big for me right now,
is I want to know these things because they've been
(23:29):
questions I've had for such a huge part of my life.
It's funny, but my biggest fear is my parents being
disappointed that I'm public with such deep stories because my
parents don't want to be public. It's interesting that even
everything the questions that I have violate their pas. It does,
(23:52):
and it's very very difficult to talk in public because
it's what I need, but it's not what they want
and it hurts them. Even finding my biological father or
you know, going on this amazing quest, they're still in
the back of my mind that they're going to be disappointed.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
So there's parts of me that felt incredibly selfish and
would shame myself for wanting this. But what I discovered.
My advice to you is that there's no shame in
wanting to know what you want to know, and that
I have come to learn that I'm not a selfish
(24:29):
person for wanting answers, that there's no shame in that.
Do you think you would get a sense of by
knowing who your biological father is? What would that do
for you?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I almost don't want to know, because I have this
side of me that is from a monster, and this
other side of me that the other half of me
that I don't know. At this point, I can think
that it's good to fill in the blanks, right I
can decide who he is, and I can think that
he's an amazing person. Even if he's not. As long
(25:04):
as he's a decent human being, I'd be happy. But
I'm scared to go on this journey because what if
he is deceased? What if he doesn't want me in
his life?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
On this journey we're going to go on. What are
your biggest questions that you would like answered?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Oh my goodness, there's so many questions I have that
I want to have answered throughout all this. I want
to find my biological father, even if he doesn't want
to find me. You know, at least I know and
I can put that to rest. I want to find
out medical history because I've gotten very sick as i've
gotten older, and I want to see if that's in
(25:43):
my history, and if so, if there's anything to do
about it, to see if I have any relatives out
there that maybe want a relationship.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
I have gone on this journey before in a similar fashion,
not exactly in the footsteps you're going to walk, but
I'd be honored to be your guy. Yeah, I love that,
and to walk side by side with you, and I
will make every expert medical record anything you want, I
will try and my very best to provide that for you.
(26:16):
If you're ready and committed to do this, I promise
you all. And you will be a different person in
so many sense of the word of that in a
positive way. I know that because it's not contingent on
other people's contingent HOMEWI you want right and the fact
that you're doing this for yourself.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I'm honored to have you as my guide. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
My first step with Becky is to take her to
meet with the people she's avoided, Diane's family. I would
have never expected how that meeting would unfold. Next week,
join us as Becky and James Frederickson meet for the
first time and the surprising letter Diane Downs gave to
(27:03):
James to read to her.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
James, this is Becky.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Hi.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
Hi, good to see you.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
How is your chip?
Speaker 6 (27:13):
Yeah? That's good? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
How are you nervous getting through it?
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Our executive producer is Ben Bollen, Melissa More is our
co executive producer, Maya Cole is our primary producer, and
Paul Dekant is our supervising producer. Our story editor is
Matt Riddle. Research assistance from Sam Teagarden. Featured music by
a dream Tent. Happy Vace Presents To Face is a
production of iHeartMedia Rings Us
Jackie, to me, epitomized everything that a person would want
in a mom. She was patient, she was caring, she
was affectionate, physically affectionate with the girls, which both Chris
and Jackie were like that. But she was definitely very
maternal and even with me. I mean, gosh, I can't
even tell you how many times I would go to
(00:23):
her and cry about something. I went to her for
advice all the time. I absolutely looked up to her,
and she was so nurturing in everything that she did.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
The voice you heard belongs to Elena, a woman who
babysat Becky and her sister for many years. Now thirty
four years old, Becky lives a normal life like everyone else.
But what's unusual about her story is that her biological
mother is convicted killer Diane Downs, ordered by the state
to place Becky then Amy up for adoption. She went
(01:05):
to live a peaceful life with her adoptive parents, Jackie
and Chris and bend Oregon. Becky had a great home life,
and her parents provided her with a good home environment
and treated her well.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
They were amazing. I mean, we had eighty acres, we
did forage and had horses and all the animals you
could think of. We lived on the river. It was
a deal to be a place to raise children, and
so my sister was adopted first, and then four years
later my parents adopted me.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Elena is a very same babysitter whom Becky tricked into
revealing her biological mother's identity. Alena remembers the interaction from there.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I went to the bookstore and I had to have
my parents take me, obviously because I was a kid,
And I found the book by Anniual and I thumbed
through the pages and went straight to the pictures. That
was like the moment reality set that this woman is
actually my biologic mom. And more so, the reality said
that my parents weren't my real parents. I always knew
(02:07):
they were not my real parents, but it was the
fact that now there was this third person. Now there
was reality of who my biological mother was. I think
it had been three years of asking that. It just
I didn't think i'd ever know, And at that point
I wish I hadn't known. It was really scary.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Becky was able to mostly forget about Diane for a
few years.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
It was that answer to the question, you know, and
so I was able to let that go, and it
was more of just the needing to know, and now
that I knew, I didn't want to know, so I
just kind of buried it deep.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
It stayed buried for a while until Becky decided to
share her secret.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
When I was sixteen, I had told a boyfriend who
Diane Downs was, and it was just during that get
to know you phase. You know, he had asked if
I had anything that I never told anybody before, you know,
a secret, and that was the biggest secret I had.
So I told him. One day he said, you know,
let's watch a movie. Come on over to my house.
(03:08):
I remember sitting on his puton and he popped the
tape in and then he left the room to go
make snacks or something, and that's when it started playing.
And you know, you see the small sacrifices. It was
difficult to watch Barack faucet as dining down and to
(03:31):
let that story unfold in front of me. You can't
look away. But I did not want to watch it,
but I couldn't stop watching it.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
At the bookstore, Becky saw the pictures of her mom
in the book but didn't read it. So watching this
was the first time she'd heard the entire story.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I don't even know the words to explain how it felt.
It killed a little part of my innocence in a sense,
just to know that that's really where I'm biologically from.
And I felt so stupid looking back, wanting to know
for so long, And I understand why my mom didn't
want to tell me.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Becky finally understood where she had come from and the
woman who had given birth to her.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
The part that really got me was when Diane was
holding that baby that was a representation of who I am,
and it became real, It's like that's me in a sense,
and the fact that she held me and it was uncomfortable,
really difficult to watch.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
After the discovery of who her biological mom was, Becky's
behavior shifted towards rebellion.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Looking back now as an adult, I can see that
it affected me greatly because it was the beginning of
my rebellious years, and perhaps that information and not dealing
with it appropriately and emotionally that it caused me to
go off the rails a little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Becky came to resent the secrecy and the hidden facts
about where she came from. She also saw part of
her identity in Diane not being prepared emotionally to the
jarring physical resemblance to Diane, causing her to question who
she was.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
After I saw the video and really got the full
idea of who Diane downs was, I just kind of
stopped caring. I shut down inside somehow. And I had
already been pretty rebellious, but at that age it was
more destructive rebellion, self destruction, partying, sleeping around, drugs, running away.
(05:47):
You know, I wasn't living at home at that point.
It was scary. I guess looking back now, I'm amazed
and I'm still alive by some of the situations I
would put myself in. At seventeen is when I decided
that I'm going nowhere in life and I'm just a
(06:07):
disappointment to everybody. So I needed to do something, and
I joined the Army, and the day that I shipped
out for boot camp, they told me I was pregnant.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Before being shipped off to boot camp, recruits are subject
to a battery of tests, and for women, this includes
a last minute pregnancy test.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
As I walked by and they said, okay, everybody's clear.
And as I walked by, I looked down at him
and there's one positive and I was like, excuse me,
you know, it's like is that mine? And they're like, oh,
my gosh, sit right here, and they made me wait
for hours. They didn't tell me anything. They did call
(06:50):
my dad though, because I was seventeen, and they called
and told him, and that was awful.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
I told before you yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I begged them. I said, please, don't tell my dad.
You know, he can't let me at least tell him
that I'm pregnant.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Becky's parents were supportive to an extent, but for the
most part, she was on her own.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
After finding out that I was pregnant, I stayed in
Portland for a while and continued to hang out with
some of the same people that weren't very healthy for me.
I wasn't doing any drugs. I quit smoking and I
talked with my dad and I tried to come home,
but they said, you know, we raised our children. This
is something you need to do on your own. They
(07:30):
paid for me to have a house so I could
raise my child, and my dad said that every parent
needs to be home for at least the first two
years of a child's life, so they helped me for
the first two years, even though I couldn't live with
them and they wouldn't like, really help me raise him,
they were there the whole time, and they made it
possible that I could have my child and that I
(07:51):
could take care of them and be that hands on parents.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
With Christian, Becky discovered that she loved being a mom.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
At the beginning, when Christian was a little well, I
didn't have time to think, you know, sleep deprived and
always caring for a little baby. I loved being a mom.
I never really worried about my genes transferring to him.
He was perfect in my eyes. Maybe it's how my
mom felt when she looked at me, you know, and
accepted me, and so their family is. I just didn't
(08:20):
see any negative things or anything bad. I just saw
this perfect little child, and so I didn't worry who
he was going to grow up to be.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Becky started dating a coworker and fell in love, and then,
by choice, Becky got pregnant a second time.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
At that point, things started to go wrong. Before we
got pregnant, we drank a lot. We were still partying
quite a bit, and I had to sober up and
do things right because I was pregnant. We just realized
we didn't really like each other anymore, and we didn't
know who each other was without the alcohol and staying
(09:04):
up all night partying and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
And then things got worse. Without warning, the father of
a child just left.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I was just destroyed. I was heartbroken. I was pregnant
with my second child. It was you know, I couldn't
afford where I was living because I couldn't work. It
was a high risk of pregnancy. I was bedridden for
most of it. I didn't want to give up on
our family, so I ended up staying in a homeless
shelter because I couldn't work.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
After speaking to her parents, Becky decided the best option
would be to put the second child up for adoption.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
They said that if I would think about adoption and
do what's best for both the children, that I could
stay with them till the baby was born. And they
were right. I was homeless, I was a single mom.
I couldn't raise two children, even though it even though
I really wanted to. I didn't want to give my
son away, but it was what's best for both of them.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
The birth of Becky's second child was emotionally and physically challenging,
so that.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
It gets to the point where it's time to be induced.
Because it was the highrist pregnancy, they wanted to just
kind of, you know, move things along. I was there
by myself because my family was too hard on them.
It broke their heart to let him go as well.
It hurt in so many ways, you know, emotionally and physically,
and everything just hurt. And then he was born and
(10:33):
he was perfect. They told me, you know, that I
could spend as much time with him as I wanted,
and you know, just told him. But I knew that
if I didn't let him go, that I would never
let him go. They just had to take him. Because
I didn't let go. I was devastated, and I didn't
(10:53):
know who to talk to. I didn't know anybody else
that had put their child up for adoption and had
that loss. For some reason, I thought about contacting Diane.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I understand how she felt. I too did a similar thing.
I had reached out to my father in a letter
to his prison as a teen, telling him about my abortion,
thinking I find a soft place to share that he
couldn't be judgmental as he was serving multiple life sentences.
It doesn't make sense logically, but in the moment of
(11:26):
desperation and a need for connection. He was the only
person I thought would be in a place to listen
and to care.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
One night, I was especially sad, and I just wondered
if Diane ever felt what I felt in that moment.
I just needed somebody that I could relate to. I
didn't need a mother, I had one, but I needed
somebody that had been through it, and she went through.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
It with me.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
There was that connection. It was my biological mom who
held me and who let me go, And for that
brief moment, I just wanted to know that she was human.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Becky reached out with a fairly ordinary letter, just describing herself,
and Diane responded.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
She responds fairly normal. The first letter, actually, it was
telling me what she looked like, and where she was born,
and just general really nice things. I got the letter
and I was almost like, Okay, this isn't so bad.
Maybe I didn't make a mistake in writing her. Because
after I put that letter in the mailbox, my heart sank.
(12:34):
I was just what did I do? Why did I
do that? Ever since the day that I sent that
first letter, I was terrified of what the letter coming
back would be, but it was excited terrified.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
The correspondence with Diane didn't last long.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I think there was only like six letters in total exchanged.
I wrote her my first letter about a week and
a half later, so she had to have written me
that day that she received a letter and sent it back,
because it was a very quick turnaround. And so then
I responded, you know, a few days after receiving her letter,
and I think that I in this second letter, I
(13:11):
asked about my biological father, and I asked who he
was and if I could know him and where he was.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Diane was a clinical narcissist and couldn't stand the idea
that the focus was no longer on her.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
She just got angry and said she was never going
to tell me and why would I ask those questions?
And I don't need to know, and just avoided it
in every way possible.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
After writing to Diane for a while, she begins to
see the parallels between their lives and behavior. Becky begins
to wonder if she's a psychopath just like Diane.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
So talking with her, and I said, you know what,
if at some point you would like to tell your story,
I could help you get your story told.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Somewhere after Eric's first meeting with Becky, he began to
explore the idea that he could be the person to
help tell her story, to finally give her a chance
to let the world know about her from her own
point of view.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
I think there was this sort of this Diane shaped
void inside of her that she's always trying to bring
the drugs and the men and everything too. I mean,
she would talk about really sort of crying out to
God and saying, please help me. I don't know who
I really am. Am I just the daughter of this
(14:42):
crazy killer? Or am I this person who's going to
have my own life and my own identity and I
don't want to be known as the daughter of Diane
Downs anymore.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
By going to the media, this was a way for
Becky to take back control of her identity.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
It was this thursd and this quenched for identity. But
also in addition to identity, it was also how much
do I want Diane to be a part of my
future going forward? How far do I let Diane in?
I think at the end it was, you know what,
I'm satisfied with that, and now I'm going to move
(15:22):
on and I'm going to decide what I want to
do with my life in terms of I'm going to
do to help people and be a person who's kind
to other people.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Eric teamed up with a reporter from The Oregonian, Lisa
Grace Ldneiser, and he began to shop the story around.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
And at the time, I had really no idea what
I would do or how I would do it. But
Lisa and I approached several magazines and all of them
were like, how we'd loved that story.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
After some wrestling with their own ideals about how they
wanted to present the story, Eric and Lisa finally decided
to work with Glamor Magazine.
Speaker 6 (15:58):
Well, I mean, there was that debate like, am I
just you know, a con do it in another tawdry
story about a killer? Or is this somebody who is
as a microcosm of what you find out when you
find out your family secrets? And is this a bigger
story about family secrets and what to do with them
(16:18):
once you find out about them? And so when we
sort of came from that angle, and then Glamour said
we'll take care of a sidebar about what happens when
you find out you know that you're related to this
over here. Then it seemed to take on more of
a little bit more of a public service story in
terms of that everybody has this dark side of a family,
(16:42):
the pedophile, the murderer, the person who did something ended
up in prison, and how to handle that.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Becky didn't make telling the story easy. She would be
cooperative at times and not at others.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
Well, it was tortuous at times. I mean, some days
she was really up and ready to tell her story,
and Lisa and I had gone over and rented a
condo for three or four days, and she would come
and talk at length about it, and then she'd drop
(17:17):
off the face of the earth for a couple of
weeks and you wouldn't hear from her.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Becky's parents didn't respond well to her sudden interest in
outing herself in the media, and her diminishing relationship with
them at the time made the experience even more difficult,
not only for Becky but for Eric and Lisa as well.
Speaker 6 (17:37):
I think that they sort of made a decision to
step back from helping her. And so it was up
and it was down, and it was God and the
devil and light and dark and all these things, and
that she was influenced by sometimes very small things, and
those very small things became big things. And so sometimes
(17:58):
the article was really on and really going, and then
other times it looked like it was going to blow up.
So part of the debate was are we writing an
article about something or are we being taken on a
ride that's never going to be an article anywhere for anyone,
and that we're just going along on this ride and
we're going to end up at the bottom of a
(18:19):
ravine in the rocks, And we wanted to be responsible
with somebody's life who was about to share their biggest
secret ever.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
The article was published June twenty ten, and Becky's story
is officially out there in the world. This led to
many more media opportunities for Becky.
Speaker 6 (18:37):
I'm not sure quite the timing of this, but Oprah
is finally winding down her show and Oprah says, would
you like to be on with me? And she comes
up very well, on Oprah, did you have you seen those.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
I didn't watch her tape yet with oka.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
During the Oprah appearance, Oprah replays a clip from a
nineteen eighty eight interview with Diane where Oprah tries to
find out the identity of Becky's father, but is only
given what Diane claimed was the date of conception, which
at the time was the only clue into her biological
father's identity that Becky had. There was only one other
(19:14):
person who supposedly knew the identity of Becky's father, and Rule.
Becky met with her on The twenty twenty Piece when
the show did a two hour feature on Becky in
the case and took her to meet Anne. When Becky
asked Anne Rule who her father was, she refused to
give out his name.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:36):
I think Anne had made like a journalist deals to
get the story and be able to keep the anonymity.
And we all understand that. And I've figured, well, I mean,
to be able to get that story, you've got to
promise whatever the person was to do.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
I get this sense that he's right underneath our nose,
that he's right in the area. I get the sense
that he also knows that she exists well.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
And I think the reason that you're probably right is
because Anne was able to have what appears to be
a conversation and that I think it's based also on
the fact that she was a best selling author and
people would come to her with details. It's like people
(20:31):
would stumble over there themselves to get her the story.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Anne Rule passed away in twenty fifteen, and thus the
mystery of Becky's father remains. She's wondered who he is
almost as long as she's known about her mother.
Speaker 6 (20:45):
I mean, it would answer a lot of questions. She
was talking about that since the day she walked into
the pizza parlor. That's what she wanted, and that's what
she hopes for, and she believes that it's just right
around the corner.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I came to meet Becky Baucock ten years ago while
filming a documentary. We remained in contact through Facebook and
discussed the backlash we'd sometimes received by coming forward in
the media. Some people few believing we saw attention or fame. Others,
knowing our true intention, are desired to connect with others
out there so that they don't feel alone that there
(21:29):
are other women and men just like them who are
related to perpetrators. In Becky's case, she didn't know who
her biodad was. I already knew my entire family background,
which tremendously helped me to navigate my identity. So I
wanted to help Becky get the answer she needed to
know she isn't just like her mom, that part of
(21:50):
her is also rooted in another family, another story.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I think it would be an interesting journey to go on.
I have a little bit of a disconnect from Diane Down's.
I never referred to her as my mom, and if
anybody does, I quickly correct them and say biological because
I was blessed to have great parents, which I talk
about all the time because I want them to know
(22:16):
that even though I'm going on this journey, it has
nothing to do with them not being good parents.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
It was ten years ago now that I first came
forward with my secret. I had hidden the fact that
my father was a serial killer because I was terrified
of the public reaction and the potentials fallout it would
have on my kids and myself. So I know exactly
the risk when it comes to answering the call to
find the truth. There is no control. Had I remained silent,
(22:46):
I would have probably never have met Becky or the
numerous others that have reached out to me that have
a killer in their family.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
So it's such a positive experience, and so I thought,
I know that in my case, I had a lot
of answers, and then you're case, you have so many questions, right.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
The other voice you're hearing is me. I had lost
my voice on the day of this interview.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
I do want to go on a journey to figure
out who I am, where I came from, why I
do the things that I do, And in a sense,
I want to know all that so I can leave
it in the past. I can stop all those questions.
I can shut down that chapter and move on. And
I think that that's really big for me right now,
is I want to know these things because they've been
(23:29):
questions I've had for such a huge part of my life.
It's funny, but my biggest fear is my parents being
disappointed that I'm public with such deep stories because my
parents don't want to be public. It's interesting that even
everything the questions that I have violate their pas. It does,
(23:52):
and it's very very difficult to talk in public because
it's what I need, but it's not what they want
and it hurts them. Even finding my biological father or
you know, going on this amazing quest, they're still in
the back of my mind that they're going to be disappointed.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
So there's parts of me that felt incredibly selfish and
would shame myself for wanting this. But what I discovered.
My advice to you is that there's no shame in
wanting to know what you want to know, and that
I have come to learn that I'm not a selfish
(24:29):
person for wanting answers, that there's no shame in that.
Do you think you would get a sense of by
knowing who your biological father is? What would that do
for you?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I almost don't want to know, because I have this
side of me that is from a monster, and this
other side of me that the other half of me
that I don't know. At this point, I can think
that it's good to fill in the blanks, right I
can decide who he is, and I can think that
he's an amazing person. Even if he's not. As long
(25:04):
as he's a decent human being, I'd be happy. But
I'm scared to go on this journey because what if
he is deceased? What if he doesn't want me in
his life?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
On this journey we're going to go on. What are
your biggest questions that you would like answered?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Oh my goodness, there's so many questions I have that
I want to have answered throughout all this. I want
to find my biological father, even if he doesn't want
to find me. You know, at least I know and
I can put that to rest. I want to find
out medical history because I've gotten very sick as i've
gotten older, and I want to see if that's in
(25:43):
my history, and if so, if there's anything to do
about it, to see if I have any relatives out
there that maybe want a relationship.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
I have gone on this journey before in a similar fashion,
not exactly in the footsteps you're going to walk, but
I'd be honored to be your guy. Yeah, I love that,
and to walk side by side with you, and I
will make every expert medical record anything you want, I
will try and my very best to provide that for you.
(26:16):
If you're ready and committed to do this, I promise
you all. And you will be a different person in
so many sense of the word of that in a
positive way. I know that because it's not contingent on
other people's contingent HOMEWI you want right and the fact
that you're doing this for yourself.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I'm honored to have you as my guide. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
My first step with Becky is to take her to
meet with the people she's avoided, Diane's family. I would
have never expected how that meeting would unfold. Next week,
join us as Becky and James Frederickson meet for the
first time and the surprising letter Diane Downs gave to
(27:03):
James to read to her.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
James, this is Becky.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Hi.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
Hi, good to see you.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
How is your chip?
Speaker 6 (27:13):
Yeah? That's good? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
How are you nervous getting through it?
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Our executive producer is Ben Bollen, Melissa More is our
co executive producer, Maya Cole is our primary producer, and
Paul Dekant is our supervising producer. Our story editor is
Matt Riddle. Research assistance from Sam Teagarden. Featured music by
a dream Tent. Happy Vace Presents To Face is a
production of iHeartMedia Rings Us
Happy Face News
Hosts And Creators
Melissa Moore
Lauren Bright Pacheco
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