August 25, 2020 • 28 mins
After a viewing of a TV movie revealed to Becky what her biological mother had done, her life took a turn towards rebellion. Now, twenty years later, she's still dealing with the consequences of that discovery
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Jackie, to me, epitomized everything that a person would want
and a mom. She was patient, she was caring, she
was affectionate, physically affectionate with the girls, which both Chris
and Jackie were like that. But she was definitely very
maternal and even with me. I mean, gosh, I can't
even tell you how many times I would go to
(00:23):
her and cry about something. I went to her for
advice all the time. I absolutely looked up to her,
and she was so nurturing in everything that she did.
(00:43):
The voice you heard belongs to a Lena, a woman
who babysat Becky and her sister for many years. Now
thirty four years old, Becky lives a normal life like
everyone else. But what's unusual about her story is that
her biological mother is convicted killer Diane Downs. Diane ordered
by the state to place Becky, then Amy, up for adoption.
(01:04):
She went to live a peaceful life with her adoptive parents,
Jackie and Chris and bend Oregon. Becky had a great
home life and her parents provided her with a good
home environment and treated her well. They were amazing. I mean,
we had eighty acres, we did four h and had horses,
and all the animals you could think of. We lived
on the river. It was a deal to be a
(01:26):
place to raise children, and so my sister was adopted first,
and then four years later, my parents adopted me. Elena
is a very same babysitter whom Becky tricked into revealing
her biological mother's identity. Elena remembers the interaction from there.
I went to the bookstore and I had to have
my parents take me, obviously because I was a kid.
(01:49):
And I found the book by Annual, and I thumbed
through the pages and went straight to the pictures. That
was like the moment reality set that this woman is
actually my biologic mom. And more so, the reality said
that my parents weren't my real parents. I always knew
they were not my real parents, but it was the
(02:10):
fact that now there was this third person. Now there
was reality of who my biological mother was. I think
it had been three years of asking that. It just
I didn't think i'd ever know, And at that point
I wish I hadn't known. It was really scary. Becky
was able to mostly forget about Diane for a few years.
(02:32):
It was that answer to the question, you know, and
so I was able to let that go, and it
was more of just the needing to know. And now
that I knew, I didn't want to know, so I
just kind of buried it deep. It stayed buried for
a while until Becky decided to share her secret. When
I sixteen, I had told a boyfriend who Diane Downs was.
And it was just during that get to know your phase,
(02:54):
you know. He had asked if I had anything that
I never told anybody before, you know, a secret, and
that was the biggest secret I had. So I told him.
One day he said, you know, let's watch a movie.
Come on over to my house. I remember sitting on
his phuton and he popped the tape in and then
he left the room to go make snacks or something,
(03:15):
and and that's when it started playing. And you know,
you see the small sacrifices. It was difficult to watch
Bara faucet as Diane downs, and to let that story
unfold in front of me. You can't look away. But
I did not want to watch it, but I couldn't
(03:37):
stop watching it. At the bookstore, Becky saw the pictures
of her mom in the book, but didn't read it.
So watching this was the first time she'd heard the
entire story. I don't even know the words to explain
how it felt. It killed a little part of my
innocence in a sense, just to know that that's really
(04:01):
where I'm biologically from. And I felt so stupid looking back,
wanting to know for so long, And I understand why
my mom didn't want to tell me. Becky finally understood
where she had come from and the woman who had
given birth to her. The part that really got me
was when Diane was holding that baby that was a
representation of who I am, and it became real, It's
(04:24):
like that's me in a sense, and the fact that
she held me and is uncomfortable really difficult to watch.
(04:45):
After the discovery of who are biological mom was, Becky's
behavior shifted towards rebellion. Looking back now as an adult,
I can see that it affects me greatly because it
was the beginning of my rebellious years, and perhaps that
information and and not dealing with it appropriately and emotionally
(05:05):
that it caused me to go off the rails a
little bit. Becky came to resent the secrecy and the
hidden facts about where she came from. She also saw
part of her identity and Diane not being prepared emotionally
to the jarring physical resemblance to Diane, causing her to
question who she was. After I saw the video and
(05:26):
really got the full idea of who Diane downs was,
I just kind of stopped caring. I shut down inside somehow.
And I had already been pretty rebellious, but at that
age it was more destructive rebellion, self destruction, partying, sleeping around, drugs,
running away. You know, I wasn't living at home at
(05:48):
that point. It was scary. I guess looking back now,
I'm amazed and I'm still alive by some of the
situations I would put myself in. At seventeen is when
I decided that I am going nowhere in life and
I'm just a disappointment to everybody. So I needed to
(06:10):
do something, and I joined the Army, and the day
that I shipped out for boot camp, they told me
I was pregnant. Before being shipped off to boot camp,
recruits are subject to a battery of tests, and for women,
this includes a last minute pregnancy test. As I walked
(06:30):
by and they said, okay, everybody's clear. And as I
walked by, I looked down at him and there's one
positive I know. I was like, um, excuse me, you know,
it's like it's that mine and then um, They're like,
oh my gosh, sit right here, and they made me
wait for hours. They didn't tell me anything. They did
call my dad though, because I was seventeen, and they
(06:53):
called and told him, and that was awful. Told hid
before you, and I begged them. I said, please don't
tell my dad. You know, he can't let me at
least tell him that I'm pregnant. Becky's parents were supportive
to an extent, but for the most part, she was
on her own. After finding out that I was pregnant,
I stayed in Portland for a while and continue to
(07:15):
hang out with some of the same people that weren't
very healthy for me. I wasn't doing any drugs. I
quit smoking, and I talked with my dad and I
tried to come home, but they said, you know, we
raised our children. This is something you need to do
on your own. They paid for me to have a
house so I could raise my child, and my dad
(07:35):
said that every parent needs to be home for at
least the first two years of a child's life. So
they helped me for the first two years. Even though
I couldn't live with them and they wouldn't really help
me raise him, they were there the whole time, and
they made it possible that I could have my child
and that I could take care of him and be
that hands on parents. With Christian, Becky discovered that she
(07:57):
loved being a mom. At the beginning, when Christian was
a little I didn't have time to think, you know,
sleep deprived and and always caring for a little baby.
I loved being a mom. I never really worried about
my jeans transferring to him. He was perfect in my eyes.
Maybe it's how my mom felt when she looked at me,
(08:17):
you know, and accepted me, and so their family is is.
I just didn't see any negative things or anything bad.
I just saw this perfect little child, and so I
didn't worry who he was going to grow up to be.
Becky started dating a coworker and fell in love, and then,
(08:39):
by choice, Becky got pregnant a second time. At that point,
things started to go wrong. Before we got pregnant, we
drank a lot. We were still partying quite a bit,
and I had to sober up and do things right
because I was pregnant. We just realized we didn't really
like each other anymore, and we didn't know who each
(09:01):
other was without the alcohol and staying up all night
partying and that sort of stuff. And then things got worse.
Without warning, the father of a child just left. I
was just destroyed. I was heartbroken. I was pregnant with
my second child. I was you know, I couldn't afford
where I was living because I couldn't work. It was
(09:21):
a high risk pregnancy. I was bedridden for most of it.
I didn't want to give up on our family, so
I ended up staying in a homeless shelter because I
couldn't work. After speaking to her parents, Becky decided the
best option would be to put the second child up
for adoption. They said that if I would think about
(09:42):
adoption and do what's best for both the children, that
I could stay with them till the baby was born.
And they were right. I was homeless. I was a
single mom. I couldn't raise two children, even though it
even though I really wanted to. I didn't want to
give my son away, but it was what's best for
both of them. The birth of Becky's second child was
(10:05):
emotionally and physically challenging, so letting gets to the point
where it's time to be induced. Because it was a
high risk pregnancy, they wanted to just kind of, you know,
move things along. I was there by myself because my
family was too hard on them. It brokes their heart
to let him go as well. It hurts in so
many ways, you know, emotionally and physically, and everything just hurt.
(10:30):
And then he was born and he was perfect. They
told me, you know that I could spend as much
time with him as I wanted, and you know, I
just told him a bit. I knew that if I
didn't let him go, that I would never let him go.
They just had to take him because I can, I
can let go. I was devastated, and I didn't know
(10:54):
who to talk to. You. I didn't know anybody else
that had put their child up for adoption and had
that loss. For some reason, I thought about contacting Diane.
I understand how she felt. I too, did a similar thing.
I had reached out to my father in a letter
to his prison as a teen, telling him about my abortion,
(11:16):
thinking I find a soft place to share that he
couldn't be judgmental as he was serving multiple life sentences.
It doesn't make sense logically, but in the moment of
desperation and a need for connection, he was the only
person I thought would be in a place to listen
and to care. One night, I was especially sad and
(11:39):
and I just wondered if Diane ever felt what I
felt in that moment. I just needed somebody that I
could relate to. I didn't need a mother, I had one,
but I needed somebody that had been through it, and
she went through it with me. There was that connection.
It was my biological mom who held me and who
(12:01):
let me go, And for that brief moment, I just
wanted to know that she was human. Becky reached out
with a fairly ordinary letter, just describing herself, and Diane responded,
she responds fairly normal. The first letter actually, it was
telling me what she looked like, and where she was
born and and just general really nice things. I got
(12:25):
the letter and I was almost like, Okay, this isn't
so bad. Maybe I didn't make a mistake in writing her.
Because after I put that letter in the mailbox, my
heart sank. I was just what did I do? Why?
Why did I do that? Ever since the day that
I sent that first letter. I was terrified of what
the letter coming back would be, but it was excited terrified.
(12:46):
The correspondence with Diane didn't last long. I think there
was only like six letters in total exchanged. I wrote
her my first letter about a week and a half later,
so she had to have written me that that she
received a letter and sent it back, because it was
a very quick turnaround. And so then I responded, you
(13:06):
know a few days after receiving her letter, and I
think that I in this second letter, I I asked
about my biological father, and I asked who he was
and if I could know him and where he was.
Diane was a clinical narcissist and couldn't stand the idea
that the focus was no longer on her. She just
(13:29):
got angry and said she was never going to tell
me and why would I ask those questions? And I
don't need to know, and just avoided it in every
way possible. After writing to Diane for a while, she
begins to see the parallels between their lives and behavior.
Becky begins to wonder if she's a psychopath just like Diane.
(13:58):
So I'm talking with her and I said, you know,
what if at some point you would like to tell
your story. I could help you get your story told.
Somewhere after Eric's first meeting with Becky, he began to
explore the idea that he could be the person to
help tell her story, to finally give her a chance
(14:18):
to let the world know about her from her own
point of view. I think there was this sort of
this Diane shaped void inside of her that she's always
trying to bring the drugs and the men and everything too.
I mean, she would talk about really sort of crying
out to God and saying, please help me. I don't
(14:38):
know who I really am, Um, I just the daughter
of this crazy killer, Or am I this person who's
going to have my own life and my own identity?
And I don't want to be known as the daughter
of Diane Downs anymore. By going to the media, this
was a way for Becky to take back control of
(14:59):
her identity. It was this thurst and this quenched for identity.
But also in addition to identity, it was also how
much do I want Diane to be a part of
my future going forward? How how far do I let
Diane in? I think at the end it was you
(15:19):
know what, I'm satisfied with that, and now we're going
to move on and I'm going to decide what i
want to do with my life in terms of I'm
going to do to help people and be a person
who's kind other people. Eric teamed up with a reporter
from The Oregonian, Lisa Grace Leadneiser, and they began to
shop the story around. And at the time, I had
really no idea what I would do or how I
(15:41):
would do it. But Lisa and I approached several magazines
and all of them were like, how we'd love that story.
After some wrestling with their own ideals about how they
wanted to present the story, Eric and Lisa finally decided
to work with Glamor Magazine. Well, I mean there was
that debate like, um, I just you know, a conduit
(16:03):
and another tawdry story about a killer, or is this
somebody who is is a microcosm of what you find
out when you find out your family secrets and is
this a bigger story about family secrets and what to
do with them once you find out about them. And
so when we sort of came from that angle, and
then Glamour said we'll take care of a sidebar about
(16:27):
what happens when you find out you know that you're
related to this over here. Then it seemed to take
on more of a little bit more of a public
service story in terms of that everybody has this dark
side of a family, the pedophile, the murderer, the person
who did something ended up in prison, and how to
(16:48):
handle that. Becky didn't make telling the story easy. She
would be cooperative at times and not at others. Well,
it was tortuous at times. I mean, some day she
was really up and ready to tell her story, and
we Lisa and I had gone over and rented a
(17:09):
condo for three or four days, and she would come
and talk at length about it, and then she'd drop
off the face of the earth for a couple of
weeks and you wouldn't hear from her. Becky's parents didn't
respond well to her sudden interest in outing herself in
the media, and her diminishing relationship with them at the
(17:30):
time made the experience even more difficult, not only for
Becky but for Eric and Lisa as well. I think
that they sort of made a decision to step back
from helping her. And so it was up and it
was down, and it was God and the devil and
light and dark and all these things, and that she
(17:51):
was influenced by sometimes very small things, and those very
small things became big things. And so sometimes the article
was really on and really going, and then other times
it looked like it was going to blow up. So
part of the debate was are we writing an article
about something or are we being taken on a ride.
It's never going to be an article anywhere for anyone,
(18:14):
and that we're just going along on this ride and
we're going to end up at the bottom of a
ravine in the rocks, and we wanted to be responsible
with somebody's life who was about to share their biggest
secret ever. The article was published June and becky story
is officially out there in the world. This led to
many more media opportunities for Becky. I'm not sure quite
(18:39):
the timing of this, but Oprah is finally winding down
her show and Opra says, would you like to be
on with me? And she comes up very well on Oprah,
did you have you seen? During the Oprah appearance, Oprah
replays a clip from a interview with Diane where Oprah
(19:00):
tries to find out the identity of Becky's father, but
it's only given what Diane claimed was the date of conception,
which at the time was the only clue into our
biological father's identity that Becky had. There was only one
other person who supposedly knew the identity of Becky's father,
and Rule. Becky met with her one when the show
(19:22):
did a to our feature on Becky in the case
and took her to meet Anne. When Becky asked Ane
Rule who her father was, she refused to give out
his name. Yeah. I think Anne had made like a
journalist deals to get the story and be able to
(19:46):
keep the anonymity. And we all understand that. And I've figured, well,
I mean, to be able to get that story, you've
got to promise whatever the person was to do. I
get the sense that he's right underneath our nose, that
he's right in the area. I get the sense that
he also knows that she exists well. And I think
(20:10):
the reason that you're probably right is because Anne was
able to have what appears to be a conversation and
that I think it's based also on the fact that
she was the best selling author and people would come
to her with details. It's like people would stumble over
(20:32):
there themselves to get her the story. Anne Rule passed
away in two thousand and fifteen, and thus the mystery
of Becky's father remains. She's wondered who he is almost
as long as she's known about her mother. I mean,
it would answer a lot of questions. She was talking
about that since the day she walked into the pizza parlor.
(20:53):
That's what she wanted, and that's what she hopes for,
and she believes that's just right around the corner. I
came to meet Becky Babcock ten years ago while filming
a documentary. We remained in contact through Facebook and discussed
(21:13):
the backlash we sometimes received by coming forward in the media.
Some people few believing we saw attention or fame. Others,
knowing our true intention, are desired to connect with others
out there so that they don't feel alone that there
are other women and men just like them who are
related to perpetrators. In Becky's case, she didn't know who
(21:36):
her bio dad was. I already knew my entire family background,
which tremendously helped me to navigate my identity. So I
wanted to help Becky get the answers she needed to
know she isn't just like her mom, that part of
her is also rooted in another family, another story. I
think it would be an interesting journey to go on.
(21:59):
I have a little bit of a disconnect from Diane Downs.
I never referred to her as my mom, and if
anybody does, I quickly correct them and say biological because
I was blessed to have great parents, which I talked
about all the time, because I want them to know
that even though I'm going on this journey, it has
(22:19):
nothing to do with them not being good parents. It
was ten years ago now that I first came forward
with my secret. I had hidden the fact that my
father was a serial killer because I was terrified of
the public reaction and the potential fallout it would have
on my kids and myself. So I know exactly the
risk when it comes to answering the call to find
(22:41):
the truth. There is no control. Had I remained silent,
I would have probably never have met Becky or the
numerous others that have reached out to me that have
a killer in their family. So I had such a
positive experience as so I thought. I know that in
my case, I had a lot of answers and then
you're case, you have so many questions right the other
(23:03):
voice you're hearing is me. I had lost my voice
on the day of this interview. I do want to
go on a journey to figure out who I am,
where I came from, why I do the things that
I do, And in a sense, I want to know
all that so I can leave it in the past.
I can stop all those questions. I can shut down
that chapter and move on. And I think that that's
(23:25):
really big for me right now, is I want to
know these things because they've been questions I've had for
such a huge part of my life. It's funny, but
my biggest fear is my parents being disappointed that I'm
public with such deep stories because my parents don't want
to be public. It's interesting that even everything the questions
(23:49):
that I have violate their it does, and it's very
very difficult to talk in public because it's what I need,
but it's not what they want and it hurts them.
Even finding my biological father or you know, going on
this amazing quest, they're still in the back of my
mind that they're going to be disappointed. So there's parts
(24:09):
of me that felt incredibly selfish and would shame myself
for wanting this, But when I discovered. My advice to
you is that there's no shame and wanting to know
what you want to know, and that I have come
to learn that I'm not a selfish person for wanting answers,
(24:31):
that there's no shame in that. Do you think he
would get a sense of by knowing who your biological
father is? What would that do for you? I almost
don't want to know, because I have this side of
me that is from a monster, and this other side
of me that the other half of me that I
don't know. At this point, I can think that it's
(24:53):
good to fill in the blanks, right. I can decide
who he is, and I can think that he's an
amazing person. Even if he's not. As long as he's
a decent human being, I'd be happy. But I'm scared
to go on this journey because but if he is,
you know, deceased, What if he doesn't want me in
his life? On this journey we're gonna go on. What
(25:20):
are your biggest questions that you would like answered? Oh
my goodness, there's so many questions I have that I
want to have answered throughout all this. I want to
find my biological father, even if he doesn't want to
find me. You know, at least I know and I
can put that to rest. I want to find out
medical history because I've gotten very sick as i've gotten older,
(25:42):
and I want to see if that's in my history,
and if so, if there's anything to do about it,
to see if I have any relatives out there that
maybe want a relationship. I have gone on this journey
before in a similar fashion, not exactly in the footsteps,
so you're gonna walk, but I'd be honored to be
your guy. Yeah, I love that, and to walk side
(26:03):
by side with you, and I will make every expert
medical record anything you want, I will try and my
very best to provide that for you. If you're ready
and committed to do this, I promise you all Mawther,
and you will be a different person in so many
(26:24):
sense of the word of that in a positive way.
I know that because it's not contingent on other people's,
contingent on what you want, and the fact that you're
doing this for yourself. I'm honored to have you as
my guide. Thank you so much. My first step with
Becky is to take her to meet with the people
(26:44):
she's avoided, Diane's family. I would have never expected how
that meeting would unfold. Next week, join us as Becky
and James Frederickson meet for the first time and the
surprising letter Diane Downs gave to James to read to her. James,
(27:07):
Mrs Becky, good to see you. Yeah, how is your chick?
That was good? Yeah, that's good. Yeah. How are you
going getting through it? Our executive producer is Ben Bolin,
Melissa Moore is our co executive producer, Maya Cole is
(27:29):
our primary producer, and Paul Decant is our supervising producer.
Our story editor is Matt Riddle. Research assistance from Sam
Tea Garden featured music by a dream Tent Happy Vas Presents.
To Face is a production of I Heart Media. He
(28:01):
brings us
Jackie, to me, epitomized everything that a person would want
and a mom. She was patient, she was caring, she
was affectionate, physically affectionate with the girls, which both Chris
and Jackie were like that. But she was definitely very
maternal and even with me. I mean, gosh, I can't
even tell you how many times I would go to
(00:23):
her and cry about something. I went to her for
advice all the time. I absolutely looked up to her,
and she was so nurturing in everything that she did.
(00:43):
The voice you heard belongs to a Lena, a woman
who babysat Becky and her sister for many years. Now
thirty four years old, Becky lives a normal life like
everyone else. But what's unusual about her story is that
her biological mother is convicted killer Diane Downs. Diane ordered
by the state to place Becky, then Amy, up for adoption.
(01:04):
She went to live a peaceful life with her adoptive parents,
Jackie and Chris and bend Oregon. Becky had a great
home life and her parents provided her with a good
home environment and treated her well. They were amazing. I mean,
we had eighty acres, we did four h and had horses,
and all the animals you could think of. We lived
on the river. It was a deal to be a
(01:26):
place to raise children, and so my sister was adopted first,
and then four years later, my parents adopted me. Elena
is a very same babysitter whom Becky tricked into revealing
her biological mother's identity. Elena remembers the interaction from there.
I went to the bookstore and I had to have
my parents take me, obviously because I was a kid.
(01:49):
And I found the book by Annual, and I thumbed
through the pages and went straight to the pictures. That
was like the moment reality set that this woman is
actually my biologic mom. And more so, the reality said
that my parents weren't my real parents. I always knew
they were not my real parents, but it was the
(02:10):
fact that now there was this third person. Now there
was reality of who my biological mother was. I think
it had been three years of asking that. It just
I didn't think i'd ever know, And at that point
I wish I hadn't known. It was really scary. Becky
was able to mostly forget about Diane for a few years.
(02:32):
It was that answer to the question, you know, and
so I was able to let that go, and it
was more of just the needing to know. And now
that I knew, I didn't want to know, so I
just kind of buried it deep. It stayed buried for
a while until Becky decided to share her secret. When
I sixteen, I had told a boyfriend who Diane Downs was.
And it was just during that get to know your phase,
(02:54):
you know. He had asked if I had anything that
I never told anybody before, you know, a secret, and
that was the biggest secret I had. So I told him.
One day he said, you know, let's watch a movie.
Come on over to my house. I remember sitting on
his phuton and he popped the tape in and then
he left the room to go make snacks or something,
(03:15):
and and that's when it started playing. And you know,
you see the small sacrifices. It was difficult to watch
Bara faucet as Diane downs, and to let that story
unfold in front of me. You can't look away. But
I did not want to watch it, but I couldn't
(03:37):
stop watching it. At the bookstore, Becky saw the pictures
of her mom in the book, but didn't read it.
So watching this was the first time she'd heard the
entire story. I don't even know the words to explain
how it felt. It killed a little part of my
innocence in a sense, just to know that that's really
(04:01):
where I'm biologically from. And I felt so stupid looking back,
wanting to know for so long, And I understand why
my mom didn't want to tell me. Becky finally understood
where she had come from and the woman who had
given birth to her. The part that really got me
was when Diane was holding that baby that was a
representation of who I am, and it became real, It's
(04:24):
like that's me in a sense, and the fact that
she held me and is uncomfortable really difficult to watch.
(04:45):
After the discovery of who are biological mom was, Becky's
behavior shifted towards rebellion. Looking back now as an adult,
I can see that it affects me greatly because it
was the beginning of my rebellious years, and perhaps that
information and and not dealing with it appropriately and emotionally
(05:05):
that it caused me to go off the rails a
little bit. Becky came to resent the secrecy and the
hidden facts about where she came from. She also saw
part of her identity and Diane not being prepared emotionally
to the jarring physical resemblance to Diane, causing her to
question who she was. After I saw the video and
(05:26):
really got the full idea of who Diane downs was,
I just kind of stopped caring. I shut down inside somehow.
And I had already been pretty rebellious, but at that
age it was more destructive rebellion, self destruction, partying, sleeping around, drugs,
running away. You know, I wasn't living at home at
(05:48):
that point. It was scary. I guess looking back now,
I'm amazed and I'm still alive by some of the
situations I would put myself in. At seventeen is when
I decided that I am going nowhere in life and
I'm just a disappointment to everybody. So I needed to
(06:10):
do something, and I joined the Army, and the day
that I shipped out for boot camp, they told me
I was pregnant. Before being shipped off to boot camp,
recruits are subject to a battery of tests, and for women,
this includes a last minute pregnancy test. As I walked
(06:30):
by and they said, okay, everybody's clear. And as I
walked by, I looked down at him and there's one
positive I know. I was like, um, excuse me, you know,
it's like it's that mine and then um, They're like,
oh my gosh, sit right here, and they made me
wait for hours. They didn't tell me anything. They did
call my dad though, because I was seventeen, and they
(06:53):
called and told him, and that was awful. Told hid
before you, and I begged them. I said, please don't
tell my dad. You know, he can't let me at
least tell him that I'm pregnant. Becky's parents were supportive
to an extent, but for the most part, she was
on her own. After finding out that I was pregnant,
I stayed in Portland for a while and continue to
(07:15):
hang out with some of the same people that weren't
very healthy for me. I wasn't doing any drugs. I
quit smoking, and I talked with my dad and I
tried to come home, but they said, you know, we
raised our children. This is something you need to do
on your own. They paid for me to have a
house so I could raise my child, and my dad
(07:35):
said that every parent needs to be home for at
least the first two years of a child's life. So
they helped me for the first two years. Even though
I couldn't live with them and they wouldn't really help
me raise him, they were there the whole time, and
they made it possible that I could have my child
and that I could take care of him and be
that hands on parents. With Christian, Becky discovered that she
(07:57):
loved being a mom. At the beginning, when Christian was
a little I didn't have time to think, you know,
sleep deprived and and always caring for a little baby.
I loved being a mom. I never really worried about
my jeans transferring to him. He was perfect in my eyes.
Maybe it's how my mom felt when she looked at me,
(08:17):
you know, and accepted me, and so their family is is.
I just didn't see any negative things or anything bad.
I just saw this perfect little child, and so I
didn't worry who he was going to grow up to be.
Becky started dating a coworker and fell in love, and then,
(08:39):
by choice, Becky got pregnant a second time. At that point,
things started to go wrong. Before we got pregnant, we
drank a lot. We were still partying quite a bit,
and I had to sober up and do things right
because I was pregnant. We just realized we didn't really
like each other anymore, and we didn't know who each
(09:01):
other was without the alcohol and staying up all night
partying and that sort of stuff. And then things got worse.
Without warning, the father of a child just left. I
was just destroyed. I was heartbroken. I was pregnant with
my second child. I was you know, I couldn't afford
where I was living because I couldn't work. It was
(09:21):
a high risk pregnancy. I was bedridden for most of it.
I didn't want to give up on our family, so
I ended up staying in a homeless shelter because I
couldn't work. After speaking to her parents, Becky decided the
best option would be to put the second child up
for adoption. They said that if I would think about
(09:42):
adoption and do what's best for both the children, that
I could stay with them till the baby was born.
And they were right. I was homeless. I was a
single mom. I couldn't raise two children, even though it
even though I really wanted to. I didn't want to
give my son away, but it was what's best for
both of them. The birth of Becky's second child was
(10:05):
emotionally and physically challenging, so letting gets to the point
where it's time to be induced. Because it was a
high risk pregnancy, they wanted to just kind of, you know,
move things along. I was there by myself because my
family was too hard on them. It brokes their heart
to let him go as well. It hurts in so
many ways, you know, emotionally and physically, and everything just hurt.
(10:30):
And then he was born and he was perfect. They
told me, you know that I could spend as much
time with him as I wanted, and you know, I
just told him a bit. I knew that if I
didn't let him go, that I would never let him go.
They just had to take him because I can, I
can let go. I was devastated, and I didn't know
(10:54):
who to talk to. You. I didn't know anybody else
that had put their child up for adoption and had
that loss. For some reason, I thought about contacting Diane.
I understand how she felt. I too, did a similar thing.
I had reached out to my father in a letter
to his prison as a teen, telling him about my abortion,
(11:16):
thinking I find a soft place to share that he
couldn't be judgmental as he was serving multiple life sentences.
It doesn't make sense logically, but in the moment of
desperation and a need for connection, he was the only
person I thought would be in a place to listen
and to care. One night, I was especially sad and
(11:39):
and I just wondered if Diane ever felt what I
felt in that moment. I just needed somebody that I
could relate to. I didn't need a mother, I had one,
but I needed somebody that had been through it, and
she went through it with me. There was that connection.
It was my biological mom who held me and who
(12:01):
let me go, And for that brief moment, I just
wanted to know that she was human. Becky reached out
with a fairly ordinary letter, just describing herself, and Diane responded,
she responds fairly normal. The first letter actually, it was
telling me what she looked like, and where she was
born and and just general really nice things. I got
(12:25):
the letter and I was almost like, Okay, this isn't
so bad. Maybe I didn't make a mistake in writing her.
Because after I put that letter in the mailbox, my
heart sank. I was just what did I do? Why?
Why did I do that? Ever since the day that
I sent that first letter. I was terrified of what
the letter coming back would be, but it was excited terrified.
(12:46):
The correspondence with Diane didn't last long. I think there
was only like six letters in total exchanged. I wrote
her my first letter about a week and a half later,
so she had to have written me that that she
received a letter and sent it back, because it was
a very quick turnaround. And so then I responded, you
(13:06):
know a few days after receiving her letter, and I
think that I in this second letter, I I asked
about my biological father, and I asked who he was
and if I could know him and where he was.
Diane was a clinical narcissist and couldn't stand the idea
that the focus was no longer on her. She just
(13:29):
got angry and said she was never going to tell
me and why would I ask those questions? And I
don't need to know, and just avoided it in every
way possible. After writing to Diane for a while, she
begins to see the parallels between their lives and behavior.
Becky begins to wonder if she's a psychopath just like Diane.
(13:58):
So I'm talking with her and I said, you know,
what if at some point you would like to tell
your story. I could help you get your story told.
Somewhere after Eric's first meeting with Becky, he began to
explore the idea that he could be the person to
help tell her story, to finally give her a chance
(14:18):
to let the world know about her from her own
point of view. I think there was this sort of
this Diane shaped void inside of her that she's always
trying to bring the drugs and the men and everything too.
I mean, she would talk about really sort of crying
out to God and saying, please help me. I don't
(14:38):
know who I really am, Um, I just the daughter
of this crazy killer, Or am I this person who's
going to have my own life and my own identity?
And I don't want to be known as the daughter
of Diane Downs anymore. By going to the media, this
was a way for Becky to take back control of
(14:59):
her identity. It was this thurst and this quenched for identity.
But also in addition to identity, it was also how
much do I want Diane to be a part of
my future going forward? How how far do I let
Diane in? I think at the end it was you
(15:19):
know what, I'm satisfied with that, and now we're going
to move on and I'm going to decide what i
want to do with my life in terms of I'm
going to do to help people and be a person
who's kind other people. Eric teamed up with a reporter
from The Oregonian, Lisa Grace Leadneiser, and they began to
shop the story around. And at the time, I had
really no idea what I would do or how I
(15:41):
would do it. But Lisa and I approached several magazines
and all of them were like, how we'd love that story.
After some wrestling with their own ideals about how they
wanted to present the story, Eric and Lisa finally decided
to work with Glamor Magazine. Well, I mean there was
that debate like, um, I just you know, a conduit
(16:03):
and another tawdry story about a killer, or is this
somebody who is is a microcosm of what you find
out when you find out your family secrets and is
this a bigger story about family secrets and what to
do with them once you find out about them. And
so when we sort of came from that angle, and
then Glamour said we'll take care of a sidebar about
(16:27):
what happens when you find out you know that you're
related to this over here. Then it seemed to take
on more of a little bit more of a public
service story in terms of that everybody has this dark
side of a family, the pedophile, the murderer, the person
who did something ended up in prison, and how to
(16:48):
handle that. Becky didn't make telling the story easy. She
would be cooperative at times and not at others. Well,
it was tortuous at times. I mean, some day she
was really up and ready to tell her story, and
we Lisa and I had gone over and rented a
(17:09):
condo for three or four days, and she would come
and talk at length about it, and then she'd drop
off the face of the earth for a couple of
weeks and you wouldn't hear from her. Becky's parents didn't
respond well to her sudden interest in outing herself in
the media, and her diminishing relationship with them at the
(17:30):
time made the experience even more difficult, not only for
Becky but for Eric and Lisa as well. I think
that they sort of made a decision to step back
from helping her. And so it was up and it
was down, and it was God and the devil and
light and dark and all these things, and that she
(17:51):
was influenced by sometimes very small things, and those very
small things became big things. And so sometimes the article
was really on and really going, and then other times
it looked like it was going to blow up. So
part of the debate was are we writing an article
about something or are we being taken on a ride.
It's never going to be an article anywhere for anyone,
(18:14):
and that we're just going along on this ride and
we're going to end up at the bottom of a
ravine in the rocks, and we wanted to be responsible
with somebody's life who was about to share their biggest
secret ever. The article was published June and becky story
is officially out there in the world. This led to
many more media opportunities for Becky. I'm not sure quite
(18:39):
the timing of this, but Oprah is finally winding down
her show and Opra says, would you like to be
on with me? And she comes up very well on Oprah,
did you have you seen? During the Oprah appearance, Oprah
replays a clip from a interview with Diane where Oprah
(19:00):
tries to find out the identity of Becky's father, but
it's only given what Diane claimed was the date of conception,
which at the time was the only clue into our
biological father's identity that Becky had. There was only one
other person who supposedly knew the identity of Becky's father,
and Rule. Becky met with her one when the show
(19:22):
did a to our feature on Becky in the case
and took her to meet Anne. When Becky asked Ane
Rule who her father was, she refused to give out
his name. Yeah. I think Anne had made like a
journalist deals to get the story and be able to
(19:46):
keep the anonymity. And we all understand that. And I've figured, well,
I mean, to be able to get that story, you've
got to promise whatever the person was to do. I
get the sense that he's right underneath our nose, that
he's right in the area. I get the sense that
he also knows that she exists well. And I think
(20:10):
the reason that you're probably right is because Anne was
able to have what appears to be a conversation and
that I think it's based also on the fact that
she was the best selling author and people would come
to her with details. It's like people would stumble over
(20:32):
there themselves to get her the story. Anne Rule passed
away in two thousand and fifteen, and thus the mystery
of Becky's father remains. She's wondered who he is almost
as long as she's known about her mother. I mean,
it would answer a lot of questions. She was talking
about that since the day she walked into the pizza parlor.
(20:53):
That's what she wanted, and that's what she hopes for,
and she believes that's just right around the corner. I
came to meet Becky Babcock ten years ago while filming
a documentary. We remained in contact through Facebook and discussed
(21:13):
the backlash we sometimes received by coming forward in the media.
Some people few believing we saw attention or fame. Others,
knowing our true intention, are desired to connect with others
out there so that they don't feel alone that there
are other women and men just like them who are
related to perpetrators. In Becky's case, she didn't know who
(21:36):
her bio dad was. I already knew my entire family background,
which tremendously helped me to navigate my identity. So I
wanted to help Becky get the answers she needed to
know she isn't just like her mom, that part of
her is also rooted in another family, another story. I
think it would be an interesting journey to go on.
(21:59):
I have a little bit of a disconnect from Diane Downs.
I never referred to her as my mom, and if
anybody does, I quickly correct them and say biological because
I was blessed to have great parents, which I talked
about all the time, because I want them to know
that even though I'm going on this journey, it has
(22:19):
nothing to do with them not being good parents. It
was ten years ago now that I first came forward
with my secret. I had hidden the fact that my
father was a serial killer because I was terrified of
the public reaction and the potential fallout it would have
on my kids and myself. So I know exactly the
risk when it comes to answering the call to find
(22:41):
the truth. There is no control. Had I remained silent,
I would have probably never have met Becky or the
numerous others that have reached out to me that have
a killer in their family. So I had such a
positive experience as so I thought. I know that in
my case, I had a lot of answers and then
you're case, you have so many questions right the other
(23:03):
voice you're hearing is me. I had lost my voice
on the day of this interview. I do want to
go on a journey to figure out who I am,
where I came from, why I do the things that
I do, And in a sense, I want to know
all that so I can leave it in the past.
I can stop all those questions. I can shut down
that chapter and move on. And I think that that's
(23:25):
really big for me right now, is I want to
know these things because they've been questions I've had for
such a huge part of my life. It's funny, but
my biggest fear is my parents being disappointed that I'm
public with such deep stories because my parents don't want
to be public. It's interesting that even everything the questions
(23:49):
that I have violate their it does, and it's very
very difficult to talk in public because it's what I need,
but it's not what they want and it hurts them.
Even finding my biological father or you know, going on
this amazing quest, they're still in the back of my
mind that they're going to be disappointed. So there's parts
(24:09):
of me that felt incredibly selfish and would shame myself
for wanting this, But when I discovered. My advice to
you is that there's no shame and wanting to know
what you want to know, and that I have come
to learn that I'm not a selfish person for wanting answers,
(24:31):
that there's no shame in that. Do you think he
would get a sense of by knowing who your biological
father is? What would that do for you? I almost
don't want to know, because I have this side of
me that is from a monster, and this other side
of me that the other half of me that I
don't know. At this point, I can think that it's
(24:53):
good to fill in the blanks, right. I can decide
who he is, and I can think that he's an
amazing person. Even if he's not. As long as he's
a decent human being, I'd be happy. But I'm scared
to go on this journey because but if he is,
you know, deceased, What if he doesn't want me in
his life? On this journey we're gonna go on. What
(25:20):
are your biggest questions that you would like answered? Oh
my goodness, there's so many questions I have that I
want to have answered throughout all this. I want to
find my biological father, even if he doesn't want to
find me. You know, at least I know and I
can put that to rest. I want to find out
medical history because I've gotten very sick as i've gotten older,
(25:42):
and I want to see if that's in my history,
and if so, if there's anything to do about it,
to see if I have any relatives out there that
maybe want a relationship. I have gone on this journey
before in a similar fashion, not exactly in the footsteps,
so you're gonna walk, but I'd be honored to be
your guy. Yeah, I love that, and to walk side
(26:03):
by side with you, and I will make every expert
medical record anything you want, I will try and my
very best to provide that for you. If you're ready
and committed to do this, I promise you all Mawther,
and you will be a different person in so many
(26:24):
sense of the word of that in a positive way.
I know that because it's not contingent on other people's,
contingent on what you want, and the fact that you're
doing this for yourself. I'm honored to have you as
my guide. Thank you so much. My first step with
Becky is to take her to meet with the people
(26:44):
she's avoided, Diane's family. I would have never expected how
that meeting would unfold. Next week, join us as Becky
and James Frederickson meet for the first time and the
surprising letter Diane Downs gave to James to read to her. James,
(27:07):
Mrs Becky, good to see you. Yeah, how is your chick?
That was good? Yeah, that's good. Yeah. How are you
going getting through it? Our executive producer is Ben Bolin,
Melissa Moore is our co executive producer, Maya Cole is
(27:29):
our primary producer, and Paul Decant is our supervising producer.
Our story editor is Matt Riddle. Research assistance from Sam
Tea Garden featured music by a dream Tent Happy Vas Presents.
To Face is a production of I Heart Media. He
(28:01):
brings us
Happy Face Presents: Two Face News
Hosts And Creators
Melissa Moore
Lauren Bright Pacheco
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