November 30, 2018 • 36 mins
Melissa married her husband Sam hoping to find stability and distance herself from her father’s crimes - but her inability to open up emotionally is destroying their marriage - and it leads them both to question whether Melissa is capable of feeling compassion - a psychopathic trait she and her father seem to share.
Melissa G. Moore: IG @melissag.moore; Tik Tok @melissa.g.moore
Lauren Bright Pacheco: www.LaurenBrightPacheco.com
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Previously on Happy Face.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
My name is Lauren Bride Pacheco and I've worked with
Melissa Jasperson Moore for about four years.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
My father is Keith Hunter Jesperson. He's known as the
Happy Face serial killer.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
My mom had just said that her and my dad
were separating, which I didn't believe.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I wanted to keep like you guys as baby pictures,
and he chucked out all up. There was just this
thing that people said in the family. They would say, Oh,
that's just Keith, that's just how Keith is, and it
seemed to be acceptable.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
One of the few people that Keith opened up to
about his childhood was psychologist Al Carlisle.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Any learning problems, No, not really for you intelligence.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
I'm very intelligent, but I just didn't adapt myself to it.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I got pregnant my freshman year, so right after I
found out is when the news hit about my dad.
I was dating a guy named Nick. It was a
very dysfunctional relationship, so I felt like the only option
for me to break out of this was to not
have the baby. A couple months later, I got a
letter from my dad. He said, you're a killer, just
(01:10):
like me. He deserved to be in prison with me.
Speaker 6 (01:13):
Yeah, the vines in the vines, well son, you don't
know shine o shi oh nice.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
My dad always said that he was not like his
dad and the way he disciplined me and my siblings.
There was a time when I was stayed out too
late and didn't come home and I worried my family,
and my dad said, you know, you went past your curfew.
So he made me bend over my dad and he
(02:00):
pulled my pants down so my bum was bare, and
he took off his leather belt and he started like
whipping it, you know, like slapping it, so it made
a slapping noise, and he kept threatening that he was
going to whip me with it or spank me with it,
and so I was sobbing and pleading with him not
(02:21):
to hit me, because like the sound alone of the
leather slapping was terrifying, and just being so vulnerable with
your tish in the air, like I knew it was
going to hurt really bad, and he didn't. He just
kept toying with the idea.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
That he was going to hit me.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
How old were you.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
It was at the farmhouse of six, about six years old,
and he made sure that there was always the threat
of being spanked, Like he would threatened to spank us,
and you just needed a threaten and you'd whip up
real fast. I mean, because just his size and how
he made those sounds was terrifying.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
He must have known the fear.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, he must have.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
For all of Melissa's happy childhood memories regarding her father,
darker one surfaced as our journey progressed. Although he never
physically hit them, Keith still managed to instill a sense
of fear in Melissa and her siblings. As the saying goes,
not all scars are visible. I'm Lauren Bray Pacheco. This
(03:39):
is happy face.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
My dad would be home on the weekends, Saturday morning
and Sunday morning, Like any weekend morning, we always want
to wake up our dad. So we would rush the
bed with my mom and dad in it, and we
would jump on him and tackle us. And it just
became a whole hour of tackling and tickling while he
was trying to get out of bed. So we would
(04:13):
get more and more aggressive, like with our tactics, Like
I would get a further running start and run and
then jump on the bed. And then I would jump
on the bed and then really try to pound on
my dad like because he could handle it, because you
could see that he could. Oh, just a young kid.
I was like five to seven or so, like really young.
(04:34):
I just would go and jump on him and he
could take him. My brother would get aggressive. I remember
him like elbowing him, and then my dad like pinning
him down and wrestling him. And with me, he pinned
me down and started tickling me, but it was to
the point of like I was gonna pay my pants,
and I kept screaming I was gonna pay my pants.
They kept tickling me, but it turned from like it
(04:58):
was funny, like let you go if you're like no,
really serious had to go, you know, you would let
your child go, But all of a sudden, it was
now like I control you, and it turned into like
now I'm sobbing because I'm it's becoming painful to be tickled.
Speaker 6 (05:15):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So you'd go from laughing to crying, yeah, and then
would he stop.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
He would eventually let me go, but it was when
he wanted to let me go.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
That just was his.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Way with us. Anything I was afraid of or didn't like,
he made sure to push it and push me beyond
my comfort, just to let me know he had control.
It may sound very harmless or little to somebody else,
but it was. It was a message. He was giving
me a message that he controls me. I mean, there's
(05:46):
so many is the little tiny lessons of that. It's
like touching the electric fence. So we have around the
perferle of the farm, we had an electric fence and
I asked him, Dad, is the fence on. He's like,
we'll touch it and find out. I touched it. And
when you touch it, you can't let go. Your hand
will let go, Like my hand I remember was on
(06:06):
it and it was like vibrating and I couldn't release
my hand because it gripped it. And he was laughing.
It was all to tell me that he could do
what he wants and that you were his yep.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
And I had to watch my feelings around my kids.
I had to watch because if they did something wrong
and made me want to feel like punishing them because
I know what my dad would do to me. I
feel like I had to really watch myself that I
didn't allow myself. See here, I'm a murder and I've
been out here and I've been doing this. I said,
I've got to watch my emotions around people I love.
(06:48):
There is, like you say, maybe not a controller, because
I'm not. There are things that made setting me off,
and I had to watch that. It was too easily done,
as times where I've gotten with people friends of mine
and I just sit there and said, I can't stay here.
You don't see it, but I do, and I'm not
going to stick around because I will do something about it.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Eventually. After her father's capture, enter chaotic relationship with Nick,
Melissa tried to find a sense of security and safety
and love, just a normal life. But something was always missing.
Why was that so important to you that you create
this stable home life.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Well, it actually goes back to the breakup with Nick.
When I broke up with Nick, it was a relationship
that I didn't want to repeat. So I made a
list of all the things that weren't working for me,
that were harmful. And I took a look at what
my parents' relationship was and my mom's new relationship was,
(08:00):
and I realized I didn't want to repeat that. In
order to do that, I had to make a list
of what wouldn't work for me. So I made this
checklist and I put it in my diary. And there's
this moment when I met Sam, and as he was talking,
I was checking off that list in my head of
all the things that I needed to ensure that I
(08:22):
didn't follow in my mom's footsteps.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Give me an example, what was on that list.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Number One, he had to be college educated. I didn't
want to live in poverty and I didn't want to
be in a relationship that if I was going to
have children with someone that it was unstable. Two travel
the world, had a worldview. I wanted to see the world.
I had this.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Stream of traveling.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Three that he was transparent and honest and I could
count on them and know that everything that he says
would be truthful. Those are the top ones. And I
first met him. The first thing he said is he's
in college and he's getting his degree in international relations.
And then he already lived in Portugal for two years.
(09:10):
So he, to me, was the best man that I
had ever met in Spokane. On paper, he was everything
that I needed.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
The hymn Melissa refers to is Sam, her estranged husband
and father of her two children. We spoke to Sam
about how the relationship began and evolved, so tell me
how you and Melissa first met. How old were you
and where was it.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Oh, it was a while ago.
Speaker 7 (09:41):
I was twenty five or twenty six right in there,
and Melissa was like twenty one, and it was pretty unique.
I grew up Mormon, and so every Friday there would
always be an activity at dance for singles. I remember
I had just broken up with a girl and I
didn't want to go out. I didn't want to go
hang out with anybody, and I had two roommates and
(10:04):
they wanted me out of the house. They're like, time
fore to go do something. We're going to go to
the dance. It was in West Plains in Spokane, Washington.
It's a big gymnasium full of people. Knew most everybody
there because it's all of my peers, the people I
hanged out with, and I was kind of reluctant to
even be there, but I also was enjoying the music.
(10:25):
So I went and sat up on the stage and
I was just watching everybody dance, and I was looking
around the room trying to figure out if I was going.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
To date again. And then.
Speaker 7 (10:37):
I remember it very clearly. Side doors of the gym
opened up and beautiful blonde walked in. Everything was dark.
I had never seen her before. I was very, very interested,
so at that moment I decided to probably be open
(10:58):
to dating again. I was sitting on the stage trying
to be a loner, which isn't my normal personality actually,
and I would just watch her mingle with some people.
And then after a little while she approached me. She
came up to me on the stage and she sat
next to me. I was right next to the speakers,
(11:20):
so you couldn't really hear each other. So she started
trying to talk to me, and as she tried, I
moved closer to her so that we could hear each other,
and she started talking in my ear, and I was smitten.
I asked her for her phone number, and I asked
for a chance to be able to catch up with her,
(11:41):
and she left.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I left. I think we went to Sherry's as a group.
Speaker 7 (11:47):
Usually after dances, as a collective Mormon group, you always
go like to Denny's or Sherry's or something like that.
And I remember the whole night, I just kind of
stop thinking about her, and I didn't call her for
like two or three days.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Was that calculated? No, I was just turned nervous.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
It's a glow group.
Speaker 8 (12:22):
Break, no, mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
For Melissa, Sam's greatest appeal was that he represented everything
her father did not.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Were your first impressions of Sam physically, Oh, he had
a goateee that was kind of long, and and he
was wearing a leather jacket not normally like stylistically and
maybe as girls like we all can relate to this,
you're like, Oh, that's changeable, the closer changeable.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
It's really the antithesis of your father physically though too,
and in terms of emotionally, your dad six foot six,
Sam was probably closer to five foot six.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Yeah, he's five'.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Six he instantly did he feel, Safe, uh, yeah because.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
He wasn't pursuing. Me, well it felt like he wasn't
pursuing me at, all LIKE i had to be the.
Pursuer so that felt incredibly.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Safe.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yeah he put my phone number in his flip phone
and then he never called, me never Did AND i
worked At Victoria's secret and then one day he just
shows up at my.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Job so she worked on.
Speaker 7 (13:57):
The makeup side Of Victoria's, secret and SO i showed
up to the makeup side AND i asked for help
to like for a perfume or, something but really the
goal was to get to Meet melissa and.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
SHE i don't know if she asked me or IF
i asked. HER i was, like, hey can, OH i asked?
Speaker 3 (14:13):
HER i remember now he, says you, know, like, hey
you KNOW i was talking To, lisha your, friend and
she said that you could use a good guy in your,
life and do you want to go?
Speaker 4 (14:24):
OUT i said, sure and SO i gave them a.
Speaker 7 (14:28):
Day we set the date, up and then like in
a few days when it was supposed to, HAPPEN i
was trying to like make sure it was going to,
happen and she told me that she kind of go,
out like one of her friends asked her to like
watch their.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Kid SO i told him, like, oh you, KNOW i,
Forgot i'm.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Babysitting and then he THOUGHT i, was you, know making
up an excuse to turn him down and not to
go out with. Him AND i, said, well actually you.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Want to just come with.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Me she, goes but you're welcome to come watch the
kid with, me AND i obviously said.
Speaker 8 (14:55):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
AND i just thought it was a good. Guy and
we went out To denny's where everybody hung out, like
if you didn't want your day to, end you just
go To denny's Or. Sherry's AND i remember we were
talking about THE i don't know WHY i came, up
but one of my favorite fables was The sirens, fable
and so we were talking about.
Speaker 8 (15:16):
That The.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Sirens, YES i don't know WHY i like that, fable
maybe because the female house the.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Power it's, subtle but even on their first, Date melissa's
tiny exertion of control has echoes of her.
Speaker 7 (15:33):
Father we were on our date At sherry's AND i
remember she did something that no other girl was capable of.
DOING i really detest ranch. Dressing there was no WAY
i was ever going to eat ranch. Dressing and she
was eating like a piece of, chicken and she asked
me to eat, it AND i told her, NO i,
(15:53):
GO i don't like ranch.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Dressing and THEN i ate ranch.
Speaker 7 (15:57):
Dressing AND i, remember like no girl had ever had
that kind of power over, me AND i found it
really attractive.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
That she didn't take no for.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Me did you guys get? Serious really?
Speaker 7 (16:09):
Quickly we, did so instead of taking her, HOME i
took her back to my. Place and in The mormon,
community that's not a. Normal next STEP i took her
back to my, place and while we were there and
we didn't do, anything we made, out but still that was.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
The fastest relationship That i've ever, had like to move that.
Quickly on.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Paper sam was Everything melissa would want in a, partner
but her fear of vulnerability always overshadowed her desire for.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Connection this is somebody who physically doesn't look like my,
dad doesn't act like my father in any shape or,
form so he felt safe in all of those. CATEGORIES
i craved to have everything THAT i was missing growing,
up BUT i emotionally couldn't connect to.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
It what was your fear during that?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Time my biggest fear was that everybody would find out
about my past and that it would take this life
THAT i curated and make it crumble, down that it
would fall, apart that EVERYTHING i worked for and survived
for would fall, apart and that people would find out
(17:22):
That i'm just like my father AND i would lose.
Everything you, Know it's interesting to go back and meet
with people THAT i dated in the past and then
this to be a common thread THAT i was emotionally
just in the relationship that they constantly had to work
to find out WHAT i was. Feeling, YES i was
a very emotionally removed. Person that scared, me but that
(17:46):
was a vulnerability that was trained out of. Me IF
i was vulnerable with my, dad he exploited. It IF
i was vulnerable with these, boyfriends what would. Happen it
scared me to think THAT i wasn't capable of, love
and that's a precursor to, psychopathy THAT i could be
a psychopath IF i couldn't have empathy or. Love AND
(18:09):
i honestly didn't feel WHEN i left a lot of these,
RELATIONSHIPS i didn't feel sad to leave. THEM i was
relieved to leave these. Relationships so it caused me to
further wonder IF i was just like my.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Dad In, Sam melissa saw the stability she desperately, craved
and his religious upbringing provided stark contrast to her father's.
Crimes but in, Reality sam was very much questioning his
faith and rebelling against. It melissa became part of that.
(18:46):
Rebellion what did you know about her? Family do you? Remember?
Speaker 7 (18:52):
YEAH i remember when she first told. ME i think
we were at a mom's place where you've been. Now
they used to have like a trampoline in the front
of the. YARD i think we were on the trampoline
and we were like looking up with the. Stars that's
When melissa told me who her dad, was and once
AGAIN i was so. Smitten to be, HONEST i didn't really,
(19:13):
care AND i don't THINK i understood the, magnitude like
the gravity of what her father. Was AND i didn't
see it as a reflection of who she. Was LIKE
i would hate for somebody to ever think that my
parents a reflection of. ME i, mean obviously we, are but,
LIKE i don't want to be judged for.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
That when was the first Time sam said you aren't there?
Emotionally when was the first time that he?
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Doubted it was always the elephant in the, room the
lack of. CONNECTION i, thought if we don't acknowledge, it
then it doesn't, exist and therefore everything's.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Normal don't bring it.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Up and so there wasn't anything verbally spoken about it
until three years. Ago we had a conversation about where
things were at in our marriage and that was his.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Complaint and what did he?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Say he, said you never look in my eyes and
you never kissed, me and it really bothered.
Speaker 6 (20:15):
Him and.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
It's, true it's, true and it has nothing to do with.
HIM i don't blame. Him it was nothing to do
with him at. All it was everything to do with.
Speaker 8 (20:27):
Me in the freaking shish in for a, SACCO i
did no you dog.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
See in what must have been one of the most
surreal moments in their, marriage one, Day melissa is SAD
i did to Visit.
Speaker 7 (21:01):
Keith melissa AND i were at home one, day AND
i think she had either just received a letter or
maybe had come across the, letter and she asked me
if it was weird that she hadn't seen her, dad
AND i was, LIKE i don't. KNOW i don't know
if it's, Weird, army he is in prison for. Murder so,
(21:22):
NO i don't think it's that. Weird she, goes how
would you feel IF i was to go see him?
Again AND i was, like whether you want to or,
Not i'm here for, you and, UH i, Said we'll
just think about, it and she. Did she thought about
it for a little, while and then she, GOES i
Think i'm gonna do, that and SO i took some time.
Off we told her when we were going on a
(21:43):
trip To, oregon and we didn't tell anyone what we
were going to go, do and we ended up getting
to the prison with our, kids and so we ended
up like following the guards through this like may of
like sales like where they would open up a gate
and you open up another gate and you're kind of
(22:04):
like following them. Through and then they brought us into
this like lobby which had like couches laid, out AND
i was trying to figure out how it was, working
AND i was waiting for them to come get, us
AND i was trying to figure, out So, melissa when
you go see your, Dad i'll just stay here with the.
Kids and THEN i started looking around the room and
(22:26):
there was guards at the doors with, guns and all
the men in the room were wearing denim AND i
wasn't wearing. DUNIM i was, like, man that must be
the style And oregon or, something so, NAIVE i, am.
Speaker 9 (22:42):
Oh.
Speaker 7 (22:46):
And THEN i started noticing that they're like pretty tied it.
Up and it was when we were in the room
THEN i realized that we were going to Meet melissa's
dad in. PERSON i had no, Idea and like after
a little, While melissa's dad came in and he's, massive
like he is such a big. MAN i, MEAN i
(23:07):
knew he was, big BUT i don't THINK i knew
how big he. WAS i REMEMBER i stood, Up melissa stood,
up and the kids were with, us AND i don't
remember if he Hugged, melissa BUT i remember his interaction with.
Me he shook my hand and he, said thank you
for taking such good care of my. Daughter that was
the very first thing he, said AND i was, like,
(23:28):
OH i might be able to handle this. Guy so
he sat down next to. US i think he asked
us if we wanted to have the kids go play
over in the play area or, not and we're, like,
no we'll keep them. Here AND i wasn't very cognizant
of even what my kids were enduring or even What
melissa was, feeling because my anxiety level was really. HIGH
i didn't know IF i had to move it like
(23:48):
into a protective mode or like into a kindness.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
MODE i was really. DISTRAUGHT i didn't know what to.
Speaker 7 (23:54):
Do was it? Crazy it was because LIKE i wasn't
expecting it to look like, That and he was actually
pretty genuine and pretty. Kind the banter back and forth
Between melissa and her dad seemed kind of. Normal he
asked if we wanted to go. OUTSIDE i guess there's
an outside area that you could go sit. In and
we just had a dialogue back and forth that was.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Weird what's going through your mind at any? Point are
you looking at this face and hearing this voice and
hearing the small talk and thinking this man murdered? People?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (24:26):
ABSOLUTELY i was able to sit next to a, horrible
horrible person that could killate, women AND i wasn't able
to even distinguish that that's what he. Was AND i
used to consider myself pretty good at reading, people like
assessing who they, are and at that very, MOMENT i
realized that most it'd be easy for all of us
(24:48):
to be.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Prey and that blew my.
Speaker 7 (24:50):
Mind that was going through my head the entire time
while he's talking To melissa as like he murdered a people.
Speaker 10 (25:03):
FROM i the creation of a serial killer By Jack.
Olson my size intimidated the guards and they chained me
up WHENEVER i was. MOVED i explained THAT i wasn't
going to harm, anyone but they'd heard that story. Before
it didn't matter how nice and POLITE i. ACTED i
was assumed to be a cold blooded killer who would
(25:24):
murder anyone he could get his hands. On this took
some time to get used.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
To melissa And sam had gone to visit her father in,
prison not knowing what to, expect and they left with
(25:49):
a very surreal. Souvenir explain to me the picture BECAUSE
i look at, That i'm, like that is the craziest
family Portrait i've ever.
Speaker 7 (25:58):
Seen, Yeah so when, done there was an option to
get a picture, taken and so we. Did we got
a picture With melissa's, dad and to be honest with,
you google the. Internet that will probably be the first
thing that pops up is a picture Of melissa's, dad my,
daughter my, son and, me and you could see the
size gap of me versus, him and he's just a massive.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Man it must have been a blessing that the kids
were too.
Speaker 7 (26:23):
Small to ask oh, completely you, KNOW I melissa AND
i were sensitive for a long time because people, asses
how could you ever take your children around such a horrible.
Person AND i think people don't understand what it was.
Like the whole room was full of, children like kids
were playing with their dads because their dads are coming
to visit their. Children and SO i think what was
(26:44):
stranger is the fact That melissa's, dad who murdered eight
people would be in general, population which is normal. CRIMINALS
i think that's the real question is how could somebody
do such horrific things and be amidst people that maybe
like smoked weed and they were treated.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Equally, Eventually melissa's inability to connect With sam and to
truly reciprocate his love took its.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Toll there was a comfort as. Roommates we got along,
great and we were good. Friends we still are good,
friends so it was easy to stay longer and longer
in this relationship because we're such good.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Friends BUT i.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Knew when he brought up three years ago that he
wanted someone to be passionately in love with, him that
he would find, it probably with someone.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Else you guys just weren't. Happy, YEAH i don't think.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
We if he was, honest he would say he wasn't.
Happy he wouldn't say that he wasn't happy with. Me
he wasn't happy with living without those things that he
wanted in his.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Life sam said. Neither he simply acknowledged a Burden keith's
crimes placed On melissa and how much he'd seen her
struggle to atone for, them but he never blamed HER.
Speaker 7 (28:09):
I think it has Compelled melissa to have to be
harder on herself than the average. Person and we're all
pretty hard on ourselves as it, Is, like take whatever
you are as a person and magnify. THAT i can
only imagine she's had to deal with people saying that
she was collecting blood money by sharing her, story that
(28:30):
we were, irrational bad parents by taking our kids to
visit a serial killer in a. PRISON i, mean you
put it in, words, yeah absolutely could build an argument to,
that but when you put it into actuality of what really,
happened it's the furthest thing from the. Truth our children
have always come first From, melissa AND i think it's
compelled her to have to over exaggerate her feelings for other,
(28:55):
people for, herself for our, kids always kind of on
the defensive to prove that she's not like her.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Father the burden she carries must be.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Immense and what's your take On jess person as opposed
to your take On, Melissa, like if you had to
be brutally honest about your take on.
Speaker 7 (29:13):
Him, so IF i was to be brutally, HONEST i
would say that he definitely corrupted his family and he
made it so that they were in pain and in,
trauma and that pain and trauma is carried over into
her future, relationships and it's made it so she's had
to overcompensate to define who she, is to separate herself
from who he, is and it's put her in a
(29:35):
really difficult. Situation and to say that there wasn't an
impact would not be.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Honest What's melissa's biggest fear?
Speaker 7 (29:45):
ABANDONED i THINK i think she's afraid that she'll be
alone and that she would end up being a lot
like her, dad that what everyone has said is. TRUE
i think that's probably her biggest. Fear but anything that's, changing,
LIKE i think she's becoming way more self. Aware i've
seen how strong she, was AND i really just thought
(30:07):
she could change the, world AND i thought by her
sharing her, story other people could have.
Speaker 9 (30:12):
Hope WHEN i was eighteen, NINETEEN i was, naive still
naives to the world on crime and EVERYTHING i.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
WAS i was basically a good person that wouldn't never
push anything past.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
ANYTHING i would never do.
Speaker 7 (30:32):
Anything when did you stop?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Hearing? Well my, divorce.
Speaker 11 (30:39):
The different problems with my girlfriend and trucking in the
jobs and everything kind of ESCALATING i can't trust nobody around,
me AND i only trust, myself and you, know.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
The cruelty of life just basically caused me to, think, well, hell.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
What would you say if you could confront jessperson on
what he's? Done, okay Send melissa to his. Family if
he's listening to, this what do you hope he?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
HEARS i would tell him that the way he treated
his daughter.
Speaker 7 (31:22):
Complicated my, marriage Complicated melissa's, life but didn't make it
so it didn't get, better and he has no control of.
Anything who he is is really, insignificant and because of
the experiences that we've all gone through because of, him
we're actually stronger and.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Better and it's okay that.
Speaker 7 (31:48):
He's not remorseful for what he's, done because everyone else's
remorse makes up the. Difference and if he goes, away
he goes away alone.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And without.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Everything hurts about building a life with someone and then
deciding to. SEPARATE i really discredited hearing from other people
when they said they went through a. Divorce it just
seemed almost so casual BECAUSE i was so removed from their.
(32:23):
Lives but the pain is actually more intense THAN i
ever thought was. Possible it's Mourning, yeah it's absolutely. Grieving there's.
Anger there are the five stages of grief for, sure
And i've gone through all of them And i've read
every BOOK i could, read and they say it takes
like two years for you to feel normal. Again and
(32:45):
it's probably very similar to someone who lost someone that
they loved to death in some, ways just because you're
used to the little, things the day to day things
like calling after a meeting or when you get home
having the, Dishes i'm all ready for, you or you
know those you can lean on that person and then
when you when you divorce and, separate then now you
(33:08):
have to create a new, life a new.
Speaker 7 (33:10):
Normalcy she always talks about how she's leaned in on,
me But i've always leaned in on, her like she
went through such trauma and so much, pain and she
found her voice even when it's not easy to. Do
she still continuously puts herself in situations that most people
want to.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Do she's so, brave and watching her be, brave As
i'll be be. BRAVE i like.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
KIDS i like my, kids BUT i wasn't really a family.
MAN i really didn't want to be the family.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
MAN i didn't want THE i didn't want to end up, like, well.
Speaker 5 (33:50):
Put my kids through WHAT i went, through and HERE
i am putting, through putting them through worse and WHAT
i went, through you know a lot of things because
you're they have to be raised with the idea that dad's.
Speaker 8 (34:00):
A, killer.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Murderer my fear still to this, day is That i'm
incapable of loving in the way that people expect me
to love. Them you, Know sam swears THAT i probably
could love him the way he wants to be, loved
BUT i don't. BELIEVE i just don't want to lie to.
PEOPLE i don't want to feel like a fraud of
(34:23):
living too many years feeling like a, fraud AND i
feel like the best policies just to be up front
and let people decide if this works for them or.
Not and so With, Sam i've been really transparent with
him to let him know that this is WHERE i,
stand this.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Is WHAT i, am and my level of being able to.
Give is it about, control? Though is your fear of
love about losing, control about letting, go about having something
have power over?
Speaker 3 (34:53):
You, Absolutely because if you fall in, love you give
up your, loverage you give Up you can be blindsided
in a hot, moment AND i don't want to ever
be that, vulnerable to be, blindsided AND i just don't
want to risk that.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Again on the Next Happy, Face melissa faces her greatest
fears and her father's.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Demons but it seems now that you want the world
to know who you, are Not melissa more but the
daughter of The Happy Face.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Killer i've created a monster in.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
You this is WHY i don't lead these.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Letters Happy face is a production Of How Stuff.
Speaker 10 (35:51):
Works executive producers Are Melissa, Moore Lauren, Bright Pacheco Mangesha,
ticketur And Will. Pearson supervising producer is No. Brown music
By Claire, Campbell Paige campbell And hope for A Golden.
Summer story editor Is Matt. Riddle audio editing By Chandler
mays And Noel. Brown assistant editor Is Taylor. Chicogne special
(36:13):
thanks To Phil, stanford the publishers of The Oregonian, newspaper
and The carlisle.
Speaker 8 (36:17):
Family
Previously on Happy Face.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
My name is Lauren Bride Pacheco and I've worked with
Melissa Jasperson Moore for about four years.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
My father is Keith Hunter Jesperson. He's known as the
Happy Face serial killer.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
My mom had just said that her and my dad
were separating, which I didn't believe.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I wanted to keep like you guys as baby pictures,
and he chucked out all up. There was just this
thing that people said in the family. They would say, Oh,
that's just Keith, that's just how Keith is, and it
seemed to be acceptable.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
One of the few people that Keith opened up to
about his childhood was psychologist Al Carlisle.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Any learning problems, No, not really for you intelligence.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
I'm very intelligent, but I just didn't adapt myself to it.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I got pregnant my freshman year, so right after I
found out is when the news hit about my dad.
I was dating a guy named Nick. It was a
very dysfunctional relationship, so I felt like the only option
for me to break out of this was to not
have the baby. A couple months later, I got a
letter from my dad. He said, you're a killer, just
(01:10):
like me. He deserved to be in prison with me.
Speaker 6 (01:13):
Yeah, the vines in the vines, well son, you don't
know shine o shi oh nice.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
My dad always said that he was not like his
dad and the way he disciplined me and my siblings.
There was a time when I was stayed out too
late and didn't come home and I worried my family,
and my dad said, you know, you went past your curfew.
So he made me bend over my dad and he
(02:00):
pulled my pants down so my bum was bare, and
he took off his leather belt and he started like
whipping it, you know, like slapping it, so it made
a slapping noise, and he kept threatening that he was
going to whip me with it or spank me with it,
and so I was sobbing and pleading with him not
(02:21):
to hit me, because like the sound alone of the
leather slapping was terrifying, and just being so vulnerable with
your tish in the air, like I knew it was
going to hurt really bad, and he didn't. He just
kept toying with the idea.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
That he was going to hit me.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
How old were you.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
It was at the farmhouse of six, about six years old,
and he made sure that there was always the threat
of being spanked, Like he would threatened to spank us,
and you just needed a threaten and you'd whip up
real fast. I mean, because just his size and how
he made those sounds was terrifying.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
He must have known the fear.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, he must have.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
For all of Melissa's happy childhood memories regarding her father,
darker one surfaced as our journey progressed. Although he never
physically hit them, Keith still managed to instill a sense
of fear in Melissa and her siblings. As the saying goes,
not all scars are visible. I'm Lauren Bray Pacheco. This
(03:39):
is happy face.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
My dad would be home on the weekends, Saturday morning
and Sunday morning, Like any weekend morning, we always want
to wake up our dad. So we would rush the
bed with my mom and dad in it, and we
would jump on him and tackle us. And it just
became a whole hour of tackling and tickling while he
was trying to get out of bed. So we would
(04:13):
get more and more aggressive, like with our tactics, Like
I would get a further running start and run and
then jump on the bed. And then I would jump
on the bed and then really try to pound on
my dad like because he could handle it, because you
could see that he could. Oh, just a young kid.
I was like five to seven or so, like really young.
(04:34):
I just would go and jump on him and he
could take him. My brother would get aggressive. I remember
him like elbowing him, and then my dad like pinning
him down and wrestling him. And with me, he pinned
me down and started tickling me, but it was to
the point of like I was gonna pay my pants,
and I kept screaming I was gonna pay my pants.
They kept tickling me, but it turned from like it
(04:58):
was funny, like let you go if you're like no,
really serious had to go, you know, you would let
your child go, But all of a sudden, it was
now like I control you, and it turned into like
now I'm sobbing because I'm it's becoming painful to be tickled.
Speaker 6 (05:15):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So you'd go from laughing to crying, yeah, and then
would he stop.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
He would eventually let me go, but it was when
he wanted to let me go.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
That just was his.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Way with us. Anything I was afraid of or didn't like,
he made sure to push it and push me beyond
my comfort, just to let me know he had control.
It may sound very harmless or little to somebody else,
but it was. It was a message. He was giving
me a message that he controls me. I mean, there's
(05:46):
so many is the little tiny lessons of that. It's
like touching the electric fence. So we have around the
perferle of the farm, we had an electric fence and
I asked him, Dad, is the fence on. He's like,
we'll touch it and find out. I touched it. And
when you touch it, you can't let go. Your hand
will let go, Like my hand I remember was on
(06:06):
it and it was like vibrating and I couldn't release
my hand because it gripped it. And he was laughing.
It was all to tell me that he could do
what he wants and that you were his yep.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
And I had to watch my feelings around my kids.
I had to watch because if they did something wrong
and made me want to feel like punishing them because
I know what my dad would do to me. I
feel like I had to really watch myself that I
didn't allow myself. See here, I'm a murder and I've
been out here and I've been doing this. I said,
I've got to watch my emotions around people I love.
(06:48):
There is, like you say, maybe not a controller, because
I'm not. There are things that made setting me off,
and I had to watch that. It was too easily done,
as times where I've gotten with people friends of mine
and I just sit there and said, I can't stay here.
You don't see it, but I do, and I'm not
going to stick around because I will do something about it.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Eventually. After her father's capture, enter chaotic relationship with Nick,
Melissa tried to find a sense of security and safety
and love, just a normal life. But something was always missing.
Why was that so important to you that you create
this stable home life.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Well, it actually goes back to the breakup with Nick.
When I broke up with Nick, it was a relationship
that I didn't want to repeat. So I made a
list of all the things that weren't working for me,
that were harmful. And I took a look at what
my parents' relationship was and my mom's new relationship was,
(08:00):
and I realized I didn't want to repeat that. In
order to do that, I had to make a list
of what wouldn't work for me. So I made this
checklist and I put it in my diary. And there's
this moment when I met Sam, and as he was talking,
I was checking off that list in my head of
all the things that I needed to ensure that I
(08:22):
didn't follow in my mom's footsteps.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Give me an example, what was on that list.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Number One, he had to be college educated. I didn't
want to live in poverty and I didn't want to
be in a relationship that if I was going to
have children with someone that it was unstable. Two travel
the world, had a worldview. I wanted to see the world.
I had this.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Stream of traveling.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Three that he was transparent and honest and I could
count on them and know that everything that he says
would be truthful. Those are the top ones. And I
first met him. The first thing he said is he's
in college and he's getting his degree in international relations.
And then he already lived in Portugal for two years.
(09:10):
So he, to me, was the best man that I
had ever met in Spokane. On paper, he was everything
that I needed.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
The hymn Melissa refers to is Sam, her estranged husband
and father of her two children. We spoke to Sam
about how the relationship began and evolved, so tell me
how you and Melissa first met. How old were you
and where was it.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Oh, it was a while ago.
Speaker 7 (09:41):
I was twenty five or twenty six right in there,
and Melissa was like twenty one, and it was pretty unique.
I grew up Mormon, and so every Friday there would
always be an activity at dance for singles. I remember
I had just broken up with a girl and I
didn't want to go out. I didn't want to go
hang out with anybody, and I had two roommates and
(10:04):
they wanted me out of the house. They're like, time
fore to go do something. We're going to go to
the dance. It was in West Plains in Spokane, Washington.
It's a big gymnasium full of people. Knew most everybody
there because it's all of my peers, the people I
hanged out with, and I was kind of reluctant to
even be there, but I also was enjoying the music.
(10:25):
So I went and sat up on the stage and
I was just watching everybody dance, and I was looking
around the room trying to figure out if I was going.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
To date again. And then.
Speaker 7 (10:37):
I remember it very clearly. Side doors of the gym
opened up and beautiful blonde walked in. Everything was dark.
I had never seen her before. I was very, very interested,
so at that moment I decided to probably be open
(10:58):
to dating again. I was sitting on the stage trying
to be a loner, which isn't my normal personality actually,
and I would just watch her mingle with some people.
And then after a little while she approached me. She
came up to me on the stage and she sat
next to me. I was right next to the speakers,
(11:20):
so you couldn't really hear each other. So she started
trying to talk to me, and as she tried, I
moved closer to her so that we could hear each other,
and she started talking in my ear, and I was smitten.
I asked her for her phone number, and I asked
for a chance to be able to catch up with her,
(11:41):
and she left.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I left. I think we went to Sherry's as a group.
Speaker 7 (11:47):
Usually after dances, as a collective Mormon group, you always
go like to Denny's or Sherry's or something like that.
And I remember the whole night, I just kind of
stop thinking about her, and I didn't call her for
like two or three days.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Was that calculated? No, I was just turned nervous.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
It's a glow group.
Speaker 8 (12:22):
Break, no, mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
For Melissa, Sam's greatest appeal was that he represented everything
her father did not.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Were your first impressions of Sam physically, Oh, he had
a goateee that was kind of long, and and he
was wearing a leather jacket not normally like stylistically and
maybe as girls like we all can relate to this,
you're like, Oh, that's changeable, the closer changeable.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
It's really the antithesis of your father physically though too,
and in terms of emotionally, your dad six foot six,
Sam was probably closer to five foot six.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Yeah, he's five'.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Six he instantly did he feel, Safe, uh, yeah because.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
He wasn't pursuing. Me, well it felt like he wasn't
pursuing me at, all LIKE i had to be the.
Pursuer so that felt incredibly.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Safe.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yeah he put my phone number in his flip phone
and then he never called, me never Did AND i
worked At Victoria's secret and then one day he just
shows up at my.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Job so she worked on.
Speaker 7 (13:57):
The makeup side Of Victoria's, secret and SO i showed
up to the makeup side AND i asked for help
to like for a perfume or, something but really the
goal was to get to Meet melissa and.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
SHE i don't know if she asked me or IF
i asked. HER i was, like, hey can, OH i asked?
Speaker 3 (14:13):
HER i remember now he, says you, know, like, hey
you KNOW i was talking To, lisha your, friend and
she said that you could use a good guy in your,
life and do you want to go?
Speaker 4 (14:24):
OUT i said, sure and SO i gave them a.
Speaker 7 (14:28):
Day we set the date, up and then like in
a few days when it was supposed to, HAPPEN i
was trying to like make sure it was going to,
happen and she told me that she kind of go,
out like one of her friends asked her to like
watch their.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Kid SO i told him, like, oh you, KNOW i,
Forgot i'm.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Babysitting and then he THOUGHT i, was you, know making
up an excuse to turn him down and not to
go out with. Him AND i, said, well actually you.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Want to just come with.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Me she, goes but you're welcome to come watch the
kid with, me AND i obviously said.
Speaker 8 (14:55):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
AND i just thought it was a good. Guy and
we went out To denny's where everybody hung out, like
if you didn't want your day to, end you just
go To denny's Or. Sherry's AND i remember we were
talking about THE i don't know WHY i came, up
but one of my favorite fables was The sirens, fable
and so we were talking about.
Speaker 8 (15:16):
That The.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Sirens, YES i don't know WHY i like that, fable
maybe because the female house the.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Power it's, subtle but even on their first, Date melissa's
tiny exertion of control has echoes of her.
Speaker 7 (15:33):
Father we were on our date At sherry's AND i
remember she did something that no other girl was capable of.
DOING i really detest ranch. Dressing there was no WAY
i was ever going to eat ranch. Dressing and she
was eating like a piece of, chicken and she asked
me to eat, it AND i told her, NO i,
(15:53):
GO i don't like ranch.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Dressing and THEN i ate ranch.
Speaker 7 (15:57):
Dressing AND i, remember like no girl had ever had
that kind of power over, me AND i found it
really attractive.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
That she didn't take no for.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Me did you guys get? Serious really?
Speaker 7 (16:09):
Quickly we, did so instead of taking her, HOME i
took her back to my. Place and in The mormon,
community that's not a. Normal next STEP i took her
back to my, place and while we were there and
we didn't do, anything we made, out but still that was.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
The fastest relationship That i've ever, had like to move that.
Quickly on.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Paper sam was Everything melissa would want in a, partner
but her fear of vulnerability always overshadowed her desire for.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Connection this is somebody who physically doesn't look like my,
dad doesn't act like my father in any shape or,
form so he felt safe in all of those. CATEGORIES
i craved to have everything THAT i was missing growing,
up BUT i emotionally couldn't connect to.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
It what was your fear during that?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Time my biggest fear was that everybody would find out
about my past and that it would take this life
THAT i curated and make it crumble, down that it
would fall, apart that EVERYTHING i worked for and survived
for would fall, apart and that people would find out
(17:22):
That i'm just like my father AND i would lose.
Everything you, Know it's interesting to go back and meet
with people THAT i dated in the past and then
this to be a common thread THAT i was emotionally
just in the relationship that they constantly had to work
to find out WHAT i was. Feeling, YES i was
a very emotionally removed. Person that scared, me but that
(17:46):
was a vulnerability that was trained out of. Me IF
i was vulnerable with my, dad he exploited. It IF
i was vulnerable with these, boyfriends what would. Happen it
scared me to think THAT i wasn't capable of, love
and that's a precursor to, psychopathy THAT i could be
a psychopath IF i couldn't have empathy or. Love AND
(18:09):
i honestly didn't feel WHEN i left a lot of these,
RELATIONSHIPS i didn't feel sad to leave. THEM i was
relieved to leave these. Relationships so it caused me to
further wonder IF i was just like my.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Dad In, Sam melissa saw the stability she desperately, craved
and his religious upbringing provided stark contrast to her father's.
Crimes but in, Reality sam was very much questioning his
faith and rebelling against. It melissa became part of that.
(18:46):
Rebellion what did you know about her? Family do you? Remember?
Speaker 7 (18:52):
YEAH i remember when she first told. ME i think
we were at a mom's place where you've been. Now
they used to have like a trampoline in the front
of the. YARD i think we were on the trampoline
and we were like looking up with the. Stars that's
When melissa told me who her dad, was and once
AGAIN i was so. Smitten to be, HONEST i didn't really,
(19:13):
care AND i don't THINK i understood the, magnitude like
the gravity of what her father. Was AND i didn't
see it as a reflection of who she. Was LIKE
i would hate for somebody to ever think that my
parents a reflection of. ME i, mean obviously we, are but,
LIKE i don't want to be judged for.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
That when was the first Time sam said you aren't there?
Emotionally when was the first time that he?
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Doubted it was always the elephant in the, room the
lack of. CONNECTION i, thought if we don't acknowledge, it
then it doesn't, exist and therefore everything's.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Normal don't bring it.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Up and so there wasn't anything verbally spoken about it
until three years. Ago we had a conversation about where
things were at in our marriage and that was his.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Complaint and what did he?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Say he, said you never look in my eyes and
you never kissed, me and it really bothered.
Speaker 6 (20:15):
Him and.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
It's, true it's, true and it has nothing to do with.
HIM i don't blame. Him it was nothing to do
with him at. All it was everything to do with.
Speaker 8 (20:27):
Me in the freaking shish in for a, SACCO i
did no you dog.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
See in what must have been one of the most
surreal moments in their, marriage one, Day melissa is SAD
i did to Visit.
Speaker 7 (21:01):
Keith melissa AND i were at home one, day AND
i think she had either just received a letter or
maybe had come across the, letter and she asked me
if it was weird that she hadn't seen her, dad
AND i was, LIKE i don't. KNOW i don't know
if it's, Weird, army he is in prison for. Murder so,
(21:22):
NO i don't think it's that. Weird she, goes how
would you feel IF i was to go see him?
Again AND i was, like whether you want to or,
Not i'm here for, you and, UH i, Said we'll
just think about, it and she. Did she thought about
it for a little, while and then she, GOES i
Think i'm gonna do, that and SO i took some time.
Off we told her when we were going on a
(21:43):
trip To, oregon and we didn't tell anyone what we
were going to go, do and we ended up getting
to the prison with our, kids and so we ended
up like following the guards through this like may of
like sales like where they would open up a gate
and you open up another gate and you're kind of
(22:04):
like following them. Through and then they brought us into
this like lobby which had like couches laid, out AND
i was trying to figure out how it was, working
AND i was waiting for them to come get, us
AND i was trying to figure, out So, melissa when
you go see your, Dad i'll just stay here with the.
Kids and THEN i started looking around the room and
(22:26):
there was guards at the doors with, guns and all
the men in the room were wearing denim AND i
wasn't wearing. DUNIM i was, like, man that must be
the style And oregon or, something so, NAIVE i, am.
Speaker 9 (22:42):
Oh.
Speaker 7 (22:46):
And THEN i started noticing that they're like pretty tied it.
Up and it was when we were in the room
THEN i realized that we were going to Meet melissa's
dad in. PERSON i had no, Idea and like after
a little, While melissa's dad came in and he's, massive
like he is such a big. MAN i, MEAN i
(23:07):
knew he was, big BUT i don't THINK i knew
how big he. WAS i REMEMBER i stood, Up melissa stood,
up and the kids were with, us AND i don't
remember if he Hugged, melissa BUT i remember his interaction with.
Me he shook my hand and he, said thank you
for taking such good care of my. Daughter that was
the very first thing he, said AND i was, like,
(23:28):
OH i might be able to handle this. Guy so
he sat down next to. US i think he asked
us if we wanted to have the kids go play
over in the play area or, not and we're, like,
no we'll keep them. Here AND i wasn't very cognizant
of even what my kids were enduring or even What
melissa was, feeling because my anxiety level was really. HIGH
i didn't know IF i had to move it like
(23:48):
into a protective mode or like into a kindness.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
MODE i was really. DISTRAUGHT i didn't know what to.
Speaker 7 (23:54):
Do was it? Crazy it was because LIKE i wasn't
expecting it to look like, That and he was actually
pretty genuine and pretty. Kind the banter back and forth
Between melissa and her dad seemed kind of. Normal he
asked if we wanted to go. OUTSIDE i guess there's
an outside area that you could go sit. In and
we just had a dialogue back and forth that was.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Weird what's going through your mind at any? Point are
you looking at this face and hearing this voice and
hearing the small talk and thinking this man murdered? People?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (24:26):
ABSOLUTELY i was able to sit next to a, horrible
horrible person that could killate, women AND i wasn't able
to even distinguish that that's what he. Was AND i
used to consider myself pretty good at reading, people like
assessing who they, are and at that very, MOMENT i
realized that most it'd be easy for all of us
(24:48):
to be.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Prey and that blew my.
Speaker 7 (24:50):
Mind that was going through my head the entire time
while he's talking To melissa as like he murdered a people.
Speaker 10 (25:03):
FROM i the creation of a serial killer By Jack.
Olson my size intimidated the guards and they chained me
up WHENEVER i was. MOVED i explained THAT i wasn't
going to harm, anyone but they'd heard that story. Before
it didn't matter how nice and POLITE i. ACTED i
was assumed to be a cold blooded killer who would
(25:24):
murder anyone he could get his hands. On this took
some time to get used.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
To melissa And sam had gone to visit her father in,
prison not knowing what to, expect and they left with
(25:49):
a very surreal. Souvenir explain to me the picture BECAUSE
i look at, That i'm, like that is the craziest
family Portrait i've ever.
Speaker 7 (25:58):
Seen, Yeah so when, done there was an option to
get a picture, taken and so we. Did we got
a picture With melissa's, dad and to be honest with,
you google the. Internet that will probably be the first
thing that pops up is a picture Of melissa's, dad my,
daughter my, son and, me and you could see the
size gap of me versus, him and he's just a massive.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Man it must have been a blessing that the kids
were too.
Speaker 7 (26:23):
Small to ask oh, completely you, KNOW I melissa AND
i were sensitive for a long time because people, asses
how could you ever take your children around such a horrible.
Person AND i think people don't understand what it was.
Like the whole room was full of, children like kids
were playing with their dads because their dads are coming
to visit their. Children and SO i think what was
(26:44):
stranger is the fact That melissa's, dad who murdered eight
people would be in general, population which is normal. CRIMINALS
i think that's the real question is how could somebody
do such horrific things and be amidst people that maybe
like smoked weed and they were treated.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Equally, Eventually melissa's inability to connect With sam and to
truly reciprocate his love took its.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Toll there was a comfort as. Roommates we got along,
great and we were good. Friends we still are good,
friends so it was easy to stay longer and longer
in this relationship because we're such good.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Friends BUT i.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Knew when he brought up three years ago that he
wanted someone to be passionately in love with, him that
he would find, it probably with someone.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Else you guys just weren't. Happy, YEAH i don't think.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
We if he was, honest he would say he wasn't.
Happy he wouldn't say that he wasn't happy with. Me
he wasn't happy with living without those things that he
wanted in his.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Life sam said. Neither he simply acknowledged a Burden keith's
crimes placed On melissa and how much he'd seen her
struggle to atone for, them but he never blamed HER.
Speaker 7 (28:09):
I think it has Compelled melissa to have to be
harder on herself than the average. Person and we're all
pretty hard on ourselves as it, Is, like take whatever
you are as a person and magnify. THAT i can
only imagine she's had to deal with people saying that
she was collecting blood money by sharing her, story that
(28:30):
we were, irrational bad parents by taking our kids to
visit a serial killer in a. PRISON i, mean you
put it in, words, yeah absolutely could build an argument to,
that but when you put it into actuality of what really,
happened it's the furthest thing from the. Truth our children
have always come first From, melissa AND i think it's
compelled her to have to over exaggerate her feelings for other,
(28:55):
people for, herself for our, kids always kind of on
the defensive to prove that she's not like her.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Father the burden she carries must be.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Immense and what's your take On jess person as opposed
to your take On, Melissa, like if you had to
be brutally honest about your take on.
Speaker 7 (29:13):
Him, so IF i was to be brutally, HONEST i
would say that he definitely corrupted his family and he
made it so that they were in pain and in,
trauma and that pain and trauma is carried over into
her future, relationships and it's made it so she's had
to overcompensate to define who she, is to separate herself
from who he, is and it's put her in a
(29:35):
really difficult. Situation and to say that there wasn't an
impact would not be.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Honest What's melissa's biggest fear?
Speaker 7 (29:45):
ABANDONED i THINK i think she's afraid that she'll be
alone and that she would end up being a lot
like her, dad that what everyone has said is. TRUE
i think that's probably her biggest. Fear but anything that's, changing,
LIKE i think she's becoming way more self. Aware i've
seen how strong she, was AND i really just thought
(30:07):
she could change the, world AND i thought by her
sharing her, story other people could have.
Speaker 9 (30:12):
Hope WHEN i was eighteen, NINETEEN i was, naive still
naives to the world on crime and EVERYTHING i.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
WAS i was basically a good person that wouldn't never
push anything past.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
ANYTHING i would never do.
Speaker 7 (30:32):
Anything when did you stop?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Hearing? Well my, divorce.
Speaker 11 (30:39):
The different problems with my girlfriend and trucking in the
jobs and everything kind of ESCALATING i can't trust nobody around,
me AND i only trust, myself and you, know.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
The cruelty of life just basically caused me to, think, well, hell.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
What would you say if you could confront jessperson on
what he's? Done, okay Send melissa to his. Family if
he's listening to, this what do you hope he?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
HEARS i would tell him that the way he treated
his daughter.
Speaker 7 (31:22):
Complicated my, marriage Complicated melissa's, life but didn't make it
so it didn't get, better and he has no control of.
Anything who he is is really, insignificant and because of
the experiences that we've all gone through because of, him
we're actually stronger and.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Better and it's okay that.
Speaker 7 (31:48):
He's not remorseful for what he's, done because everyone else's
remorse makes up the. Difference and if he goes, away
he goes away alone.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And without.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Everything hurts about building a life with someone and then
deciding to. SEPARATE i really discredited hearing from other people
when they said they went through a. Divorce it just
seemed almost so casual BECAUSE i was so removed from their.
(32:23):
Lives but the pain is actually more intense THAN i
ever thought was. Possible it's Mourning, yeah it's absolutely. Grieving there's.
Anger there are the five stages of grief for, sure
And i've gone through all of them And i've read
every BOOK i could, read and they say it takes
like two years for you to feel normal. Again and
(32:45):
it's probably very similar to someone who lost someone that
they loved to death in some, ways just because you're
used to the little, things the day to day things
like calling after a meeting or when you get home
having the, Dishes i'm all ready for, you or you
know those you can lean on that person and then
when you when you divorce and, separate then now you
(33:08):
have to create a new, life a new.
Speaker 7 (33:10):
Normalcy she always talks about how she's leaned in on,
me But i've always leaned in on, her like she
went through such trauma and so much, pain and she
found her voice even when it's not easy to. Do
she still continuously puts herself in situations that most people
want to.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Do she's so, brave and watching her be, brave As
i'll be be. BRAVE i like.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
KIDS i like my, kids BUT i wasn't really a family.
MAN i really didn't want to be the family.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
MAN i didn't want THE i didn't want to end up, like, well.
Speaker 5 (33:50):
Put my kids through WHAT i went, through and HERE
i am putting, through putting them through worse and WHAT
i went, through you know a lot of things because
you're they have to be raised with the idea that dad's.
Speaker 8 (34:00):
A, killer.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Murderer my fear still to this, day is That i'm
incapable of loving in the way that people expect me
to love. Them you, Know sam swears THAT i probably
could love him the way he wants to be, loved
BUT i don't. BELIEVE i just don't want to lie to.
PEOPLE i don't want to feel like a fraud of
(34:23):
living too many years feeling like a, fraud AND i
feel like the best policies just to be up front
and let people decide if this works for them or.
Not and so With, Sam i've been really transparent with
him to let him know that this is WHERE i,
stand this.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Is WHAT i, am and my level of being able to.
Give is it about, control? Though is your fear of
love about losing, control about letting, go about having something
have power over?
Speaker 3 (34:53):
You, Absolutely because if you fall in, love you give
up your, loverage you give Up you can be blindsided
in a hot, moment AND i don't want to ever
be that, vulnerable to be, blindsided AND i just don't
want to risk that.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Again on the Next Happy, Face melissa faces her greatest
fears and her father's.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Demons but it seems now that you want the world
to know who you, are Not melissa more but the
daughter of The Happy Face.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Killer i've created a monster in.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
You this is WHY i don't lead these.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Letters Happy face is a production Of How Stuff.
Speaker 10 (35:51):
Works executive producers Are Melissa, Moore Lauren, Bright Pacheco Mangesha,
ticketur And Will. Pearson supervising producer is No. Brown music
By Claire, Campbell Paige campbell And hope for A Golden.
Summer story editor Is Matt. Riddle audio editing By Chandler
mays And Noel. Brown assistant editor Is Taylor. Chicogne special
(36:13):
thanks To Phil, stanford the publishers of The Oregonian, newspaper
and The carlisle.
Speaker 8 (36:17):
Family
Happy Face News
Hosts And Creators
Melissa Moore
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Show Links
AboutPopular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!