110: Queer Gaming Revisited

For Pride, Dani and Ify revisit their conversation on queer culture in gaming.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, it is Danny and Iffy here. We're still
on hiatus. I hope that everyone out there is being
loud and it's being safe. Um. If you this is
the first time I've seen you across from me in
a in a bit. Yeah, I know, Yeah, it's been
a it's been a time, you know, just trying to

(00:21):
stay active, stay positive, get out. You know. They went
to a protest yesterday. It was great. It's a good
time and still all the while doing super punched stuff. Yeah. So,
so this week we wanted to re air an episode
we did on queer characters and gaming. As you may
or may not know, June is Pride month, and we've

(00:42):
actually had some great advancements as far as queer representation
and gaming. On this particular episode that we're re airing,
we had Cannon's Bachman from Sony and our friend comedian
Christopher Smith Bryant, who's the head of the l A
Gaming Society here to talk about iconic gay characters in
this community. Something that we wanted to remind everyone is

(01:02):
that black and brown trans women are why we have pride. Uh.
They were the ones fighting at Stonewall Um and protesting
against police brutality. It is because of them that people
like me get to come out as openly by They
have done so much work in this community. So we
just wanted to remember them during Pride. Uh And hopefully

(01:24):
you guys are all tweeting and posting and showing up
and stuff for this community. Yeah, definitely that, well do you.
I'd second all of those things, But I also wanna
also wanna do uh say a resounding yeah you can't
all black lives matter, which is always a scary phrase

(01:47):
to say because it seems like you're about to say
all lives matter, but no, just me, all black lives matter.
If you didn't know, Uh, twenty black men ganged up
on a trans women a couple of days ago, and
we were recording this June fourth at a at a
Black Lives Matter rally, which is disgusting, despicable, and I
hope all twenty of those men get caught and dealt

(02:10):
with because you can't. You can't sit there in a
Black Lives Matter rally and then attack another Black life.
You get over, get over whatever BS ideals. I have
to remember, we don't curse on this show. Had to
stop myself and and really stand up for one another
out there, because if if you're not for all black lives,

(02:34):
then you're not for black lives period. Yes, all black
lives matter, Black trans lives matter. We hope you enjoyed
this episode on queer Characters and gaming. Stay loud, Stay strong,
Stay nerdy. Yeah, yes, stay nerdy, Stay nerdy. Hey, everybody,

(03:04):
welcome to another episode of Nerdificent. I'm if you and
sitting in the new corner of the table. I've been
kicked out. Yeah, it is I your other co host,
Danny Fernandez, and today we are joined up top by
comedian executive producer at Enemies of Dorothy, an event coordinator

(03:24):
at LAGS, which is the l A Gaming Society, Christopher
Smith Bryant. Yeah, this is where I talk. Yes, I
am sitting in my spot. It feels weird. I feel
weird and I've never been here before. No, I'm a
in incordinator at LAGS, l A Gaming Society, So I'm
super excited to be on your show and talk about
gay stuff. Yes, so we have another I know spoiler.

(03:46):
You already said, what are our episode is? I'm just kidding.
They can see it in the title And sitting next
to him is the technical program manager at PlayStation, A
gaming enthusiast and lgbt Q activist Cannon's backman. Hey, thanks
for joe us. Thank you so much for having me.
W how did y'all meet? How do you two know
each other? Oh? My god? We okay, well we did

(04:07):
go on one day. Okay, I'm sorry, I did not
know this. No, it's it's okay. It didn't go well. Um,
but we're friends now, so it went well enough. Yeah.
I think I think sometimes you meet people, especially being LGBT,
you meet someone that you have an attraction for, but
you're like, I'm not sexually but I'm so attracted to

(04:28):
this person, and you're like, oh, it's just because our
souls are like friends souls. We um. We run the
l A Gaming Society together, which is one of the
largest gay video game groups in America, where we create
these giant parties and programs for LGBT nerds that live
in Los Angeles to kind of meet up um, and

(04:49):
it's just been a really cool way. I mean I
met Cannon through that, and we've met multiple friends through
that as well. Yeah. You guys actually had the Dragon
Ball Fighters tournament that I is that that? Yeah? We
had a great time with Funimation, uh doing Dragon Ball
Fighters tournament. It's a really great way because I feel like,
especially LGBT people who moved to l A, they feel lost,

(05:15):
and especially if they're nerds and they might have, you know,
some sort of social issues like you know, aspergers or whatever,
it's a great way for them too. I said that, right, right, Okay,
it's a great way for them to meet with other nerds.
I did it to other nerds who can't socialize, like
I can't socialize Christianize. The extent of our friendship is

(05:37):
sending memes to each other like four times a day.
That's how we communicate. That's all of my friendships. And
then that's it. And I'll see Danny like once every
six months. But I feel closer to her because of
our memes. That's a millennial friendship. And I need up
our meme game. We send them here and there. Yeah,
we are meme light usually. It's just it's true. We

(06:01):
spill a lot of tea in our in our chat.
So I wanted to talk about a little bit canon
about you work with WITS. Is that what it's called
Women in Technology? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, can you tell
us a little bit about that group. Sure. So one
of the really cool things about being at PlayStation now
is we're experiencing a lot of change for the better.

(06:21):
We've we weren't from two different companies at Sony that
we're considered kind of the redheaded stepchild. We were the
gaming division UM and now since the PlayStation four is launched,
we've kind of become the crown jewel of the Sony companies,
and that's ushered in a lot of really positive change.
So our headquarters moved from Tokyo to san Mateo, and
we're kind of embracing a lot of modern um culture

(06:43):
things and culture changes UM to kind of, I guess,
invite more people to be a part of what it
is that we do at Sony. So what has come
with that has been a lot of diversity initiatives, and
one of them was making what we call employee resource groups.
And we haven't played resource groups. There's five at Sony currently.
There's Women in Technology at Sony, which is our women's group.

(07:03):
There's Proud at Sony, which is our LGBT group. There's PAN,
which is PlayStation African American Network at Sony. I think
it's PANS and then there's a fourth and fifth one.
I don't remember what the other ones are. But having
all those groups that sony has been a really really
good experience because it's been able to bring people I
work with together in a really different way, in a
really interesting way, and it's had a lot of really

(07:26):
interesting effects on our work culture and on the projects
we do and pretty much everything. It's been really great
well with Cannon and I, especially especially because we're running
events with the l A Gaming Society UM PlayStation let
us hold their first LGBT E three party. Oh that's
so cool, which was really amazing because we we just

(07:46):
like put up an event, like Okay, this will be fine,
and luckily we put up an event on Facebook because
like within a week, I think there are two thousand
people that clicked interested in it, and we're like, oh,
are were you having this at your house? Because we
lovely had in an event space for it. But I
remember Cannon's like, I don't know how we're gonna fill this,

(08:07):
and we're like, oh, we're not going to be able
to get everyone in. But it was kind of a
cool moment, especially because I don't think anyone realized how
many LGBT nerds there are and how underrepresented they are
as a group, And it was an amazing way, especially
to get a lot of people who worked for PlayStation
to kind of be like, oh my god, this is

(08:28):
a huge, huge, huge group. And especially it was awesome
because they had the E three presentation from PlayStation actually
opened up with a lesbian moment, a lesbian kiss between
two characters for the last of us two. Uh So
it's just a really powerful moment for all of us. Also,

(08:49):
what it was really cool too, was because Ellie being
lesbian was alluded to in the DLC but not confirmed,
and I feel like a lot of lgb characters or
has to have to deal with that with the off
screen you know representation where it's like we're supposed to
assume that, or even like you know, uh, to take

(09:10):
it back to Nickelodeon, Like a few people were wishy
washy with the end of Legend of Cora because it
wasn't as strong of it ending to really confirm everything.
So to kind of just have that kiss there and
like yep, we're here, it was I even thought it
was like really cool because you know, I think just
from the perspective of being like a black person and

(09:31):
wanting to see you know, representation. It's cool, Like it's
it's funny how like we can cheer each other on,
like everyone something. I feel like some people in our
respective like you know, groups, think that it's a contest
when it really is just we want everybody winning. Like
I was hyped to see crazy rich agents do well.

(09:51):
I'm like, yes, get it, get it, you know, and
I feel like, you know, it's just like there's room
for everyone, and it is funny because you know when
you do have like so many I think white dude
bros think like, oh man, this is dumb and trying
to you know, s j W and all this when
they don't even know. Like I think it's crazier because

(10:14):
I feel like lgbt Q is a little more invisible,
Like you can, like someone can be Chris's homeboy and
not know that he is gay and then be like,
what do you think of this lgbt You know s
j W always clogging up trying to ruin my games.
You know, they would have to be blind to not

(10:37):
know that I'm gay, but you would actually be surprised
though you are, sorry, go ahead, No, they just don't
sometimes they don't think of it, like they just don't
what we're gonna say. You are wearing a sailor moon
necklace with sailor moon nelace another very LGBT pro you know,
I mean all of the sailors I feel like in general,

(10:57):
but specifically Neptune in Urinous are so And I saw
that you were posting that you were watching it this
past weekend. You know what was amazing is for a
show that was in the nineties, there was a character
that said that they had they admitted of having a
crush on Usagi and most animals at the time, the
main character, if it's someone of the same sex, admitted

(11:19):
that they were attracted to him, they would be like
whoa gross, So like try to make a comedic moment
out of it. And the weird thing was Usagi, which
is like she took care of the person's feelings. She said,
I don't have the same you know, emotions that you
feel towards me. But it was just like really sweet
about it. And it was such a progressive show in
that way for its time that it means so much

(11:41):
to you know, ALGBT nerds for that reason. Well, I
wanted to ask you guys, Like, what were some of
the characters and shows that you latched onto as a child,
or when did you first feel like you saw yourself
in media were represented. Oh that's a tough one. Um,
this is going to be horrible to say, but I
think it started with fan fiction. Yeah. I really started

(12:04):
with like fan web comics, like even just seeing uh
because I I mean I remember as far as like,
I'm really into comic books, the as a Marvel fan.
The Young Adventures was kind of like and is it
north Star as well from X Men. Yeah, that were
the first, like big Ones from Marvel and then Batwoman,

(12:26):
But it kind of started before then, seeing like web
comics on the Internet. Some of them were very racy,
um of different, like characters that I would ship together
like people you know are like fan fiction and sometimes
it's just sweet to see people that I like shipped together.
I think that was actually the first thing I had

(12:47):
because there really as a kid, there wasn't there wasn't
really that much representation as someone who's you know, turning
thirty soon. There really wasn't as a kid any representation,
especially in video games. They're Birdel like that was a
transgender bird from in Sailor Moon. That was in Sailor Moon.

(13:11):
They changed in the American version they changed the lesbian
scouts to be cousins. And I think all of us
at the time, we're like, what type of relationship, like
are you having with your cousin? I mean, my is
just weird. I don't know if I split my tongue
into my cousin's mouth. But sometimes how people get Cannon?

(13:32):
What about you? Like? What were if not like that
you felt represented? What were some of the characters and
shows that you at least latched onto as a as
a kid? Like? What characters did you like? So that's
a good question. I grew up watching He Man, which
I think is why I'm gay. No, I'm just sense
makes sense. Um. I think the earliest video game reference
that I can think it actually comes from Dragon Age.

(13:53):
I don't know if anyone ever played Dragon Age, but
it was the first game I played that had gay
optional romances, which I played that game every which way
to get all of the gay romances because I wanted
because it was like my first exposure to that, and
I was like, holy crap, Like even replayed it as
a female character in romance all the female characters that
you can romance and it was just cool to have

(14:14):
that option because I've never had that option before. Yeah,
speaking of that, that actually reminds I now can think
the very first video game for me was The Sims.
The Sims because I think I remember them adding like
LGBT relationship and there's a huge controversy around it, but
when you could add when you could woo hoo and
the bed like that was my first gay porn was

(14:39):
pixelated woo hoo. And I was wild too, just just
the pixelated like wo who and then it would have
like almost the fighting smoke, like okay, I'll going crazy
Simsy's I was like, is this what it's supposed to be?
Right when you see it's not pixelated? Um. I I

(15:02):
would say fan fiction was how I explored my sexuality
as well. Um and also just like anime what is it?
I forgot the name of it now when it's not
the manga, but it's like fan made manga. I can't
remember to um. Anyways, there's a lot of exploration in there.
But I was able to be I guess the best

(15:24):
way to describe it as a passenger in that experience
because my best friend in high school came out to
me in like like the summer between eighth grade and
freshman year, and it was true, Yeah, I'm I'm a
good guy. Guys, I'm one of the hashtag woke. Yeah no.
And it's so funny because to me, that's also kind

(15:46):
of been my frustration with bigotry because it was that simple.
It's just like, you're still the same. Why would I
care like who you love? It was so too for
me to think back and as a like thirteen year old,
no inhibitions and no like, oh man, this is that
or whatever. It's it's like crazy to see how grown

(16:08):
adults will like go back and forth on this with nothing.
And also I'm like a strong proponent of like my
own business, you know, and if it has nothing to
do with you, why would you even have an opinion
on it? But I'm side tracking a bit, but too,
But like even him growing up, it was the same thing.
He really kind of gravitated towards uh sailor moon because

(16:30):
you know, it was that same thing because they're like
the uncut version. They're lesbians. It's tight and beyond that,
I'm trying to think because we're both hyper nerds, like
we watched DVZ together. He like DVZ has a lot
of queers characters. I remember we I will bring this back.
Every is the gay icon. We've talked about this. It's

(16:54):
zarbon so so. Um, I remember that you posted like
a picture. I think it was a dragon ball Z relating.
I think I was in my underwear next to Freezer
and we're both sticking our butts out as you do
as you do on Instagram, and somebody was like, don't
bring your homosexuality into dragon ball Z and i'ld be like,
have you watched it? Well, my favorite is Danny. Then

(17:17):
went off on this person and she's like, oh, you
think you know about dragon ball Z? And I was
like this comment, I should say, I thought like I
brought the facts. Yeah. I used to post these like
belfies on Instagram and I just put like, you know,
hashtag butt or whatever. But I think people straight guys
would just see a feminine figure and be turned on

(17:39):
by it and then like then look at the picture
and then realize that there's a guy, and um, I
think that's yeah exactly. We've we've all been there, you know.
Easually you're like, oh, I've done that with your post
because so many booty models that like, I'll Chris come up,
but you know, I'm not reading the screen. I'm like,

(18:01):
oh nice, but I was like, oh look it's Chris again.
But you're very supportive. Yeah, yeah, very supportive. But I
think that's what happens is then he got angry and
then try to school me on Dragon ball Z and
Danny was not having it. She was like, no, well,
it's so fascinating to me because anime they don't have
necessarily the same weird religious, extremely structured like homophobia and

(18:27):
stuff that seems to be over here where they made
where a Cure to Rama made a lot of these
characters kind of gender fluid for a reason and has
commented on this. So it's just frustrating to me that
people are like, no, it's this, when well, that's what's
so funny is all the like super weeds you know,
who want to copy everything about Japan will just skip

(18:49):
over that part, which is the Japan's not having their
huge obsession over masculinity where there is that kind of
gender fluidity. There's so many anime characters that or androgynous
that can go either way. I mean even like double
Man cry Baby, like you know, spoilers, but I'm gonna
give you thirty seconds to speed past this if you

(19:10):
really want to see it. But at the end, when
Satan has like straight up breast and it's like never addressed,
it's never like a thing. It's like, yeah, no, I
I am a man, I have breast, I am beautiful,
and this is in let me destroy the world. You know.
Japan culture is very interesting though, they because they still
have homophobia, but it's different. And I believe homosexuality is

(19:33):
illegal in Japan for Japanese citizens. Is that correct? Canon Yeah,
So it's it's an interesting law they have. I I
go to Japan fairly regularly for work, so I have
a little bit of experience with Japanese culture and it's
fascinating and I love going to Japan. But one of
the really interesting things I learned very early on was
so things like prostitution are illegal between Japanese citizens, but

(19:56):
prostitution between a Japanese citizen and a non Japanese citizen
is not legal. And you'll find a lot of things
or I'm sorry, yes, yeah, what about homosexuality in Japan?
So being gay is not illegal in Japan. But if
you ask any Japanese people like, are they're gay people here?
They will tell you no, it's a very fascinating thing.
Yet in a lot of their art nor culture, you'll

(20:16):
see a lot of gender nonconforming people. You'll see a
lot of queer people. You'll see people that don't fit
the normal gender spectrum. So they're very comfortable with it
in their art and in their style and in their culture.
But if you ask them straight up, like what is
the l g T community here, they'll say, oh, Japan
doesn't have those. That doesn't happen here is bizarre. And
then they'll say, if you do see it here, it's

(20:37):
because foreigners have come here and they've like and I
wonder if the art is that is like their expression
of it, because like, yeah, if we're just looking at
anime and like it's so not all of it, but
a lot of it is sexual and sexual between women
and women, men and women, man and man, like just
a large spectrum, and so yeah, I find that fascinating. Yeah,

(21:01):
it's it is interesting, And that's just a whole another
deep dive of a whole another culture because that they're
because there's just so many nuanced levels to it. I
don't think this is okay at all, because to me,
the way it sounds on paper is like appropriation. You're
you're willing to make money off of the imagery and

(21:22):
having it in your media, But when it comes time
to actually allow it to happen, to allow certain people
to be free, now we're going to pretend they don't exist.
That's well, that's their kind of way of dealing with
anything in Japanese culture is just they if they don't
like something or if it makes them feel uncomfortable, they
kind of are just shut it down and like, this
isn't happening, what are you talking about? I did want

(21:44):
to talk about sorry to transition, so I wanted to
talk about some queer characters in Nerdum okay. So some
of the ones that I personally love would be zena
warrior princess. I don't know if you watched her yeas amazing,
you would I Chris have talked extensively about wonder Woman,
so and who is she? She's officially bisexual, right, which

(22:07):
I mean it's basically been hinted forever but and was
then openly confirmed. But for me it was it was
frustrating to see people upset about this when it was like,
she lives on an island of all women. Women know
how to pleasure other women. There's no way that these
goddesses are just sleeping alone every night by themselves. I

(22:28):
don't think anyone that's read a Wonder Woman comic was
upset by it. I think it was like a lot
of people were like, Linda Carter, no, but it's so true.
And another thing I would have to say before I
move off of her is that in the movie with
her being with Steve Trevor, and people were like, well,
clearly she's not by I'm like, no, it's just the

(22:51):
clock struck straight this time, might not next time. But
that's like, you know, it's she can still be a
bisexual woman and have reallys with a man. That's actually
how that works. That's a problem with bise I mean
people's opinions on bisexuality in general, as they don't understand
that you can be with someone that's the opposite sex
and still be bisexual. Yeah, so many people take that

(23:12):
away from bisexual people. It's sad to see that oh yeah, no,
even to go even a little further into it, it
is funny that type of nerd, which is basically, you know,
for lack of a better term, just really just only
trying to protect their sexual desires around the character. Like

(23:32):
the same thing with the outrage of Shira. You know,
some people are like, oh, it's just because it's done with.
There is a camp of people who are like, this
isn't the Shira I remember who you know, it was
very sexy, or whenever they make a character more modest
than they get mad. It's like, you're not even, in
my eyes, a real fan of this character. You only
like this character for your sexual pleasure and think that

(23:55):
no one should touch it to make you happy in
a way that the character wasn't even built for in
the first place, Like you know, go to Rule thirty
four and get your rocks off, believe like the actual
art and the people, actual fans of the character, like
let them have the things they want, which is good
story progressive styte storytelling, like leave leave your like weird.

(24:19):
You know, I'm not going to kink shame you, but
leave it out of it. You know. The really funny
thing just about wonder Woman, real quick, they're really funny
about wonder Woman. So she has a totally queer origin story.
There's actually a movie about her three creators, and it's
a man and two women that we're in a relationship
at the time that we're super into bondage, and that's
why Wonder Woman's power is the lasso of truth and

(24:40):
she would tipe people off, make sense. So there's this
whole like all of the queer undertones of Wonder Woman
are absolutely intentional. Yeah, well, do you remember even in
the film in the boat scene when she was like,
oh no, I read about, you know, pleasures or whatever
with a man and a woman and he was like,
what did you find out that we don't really need you?
That is a queer like moment of being like, yeah, no,

(25:03):
we've no how to pleasure each other. We don't actually
need you unless we want to have children. So, like
you said, the undertones, but like if you it's there,
it's there. But I wanted to know some of your
favorite queer characters in gaming or in television and film,
or some of the fandoms that you are into. That's
a great question. Um, I'm trying to think of it's

(25:25):
so weird even thinking about like gay characters in video games,
for instance, there's really uh so many like who who
can you think of who's gay? I was gonna say, Chris,
you actually introduced me to America. Chaves, Yeah, the one
that did. And she's a Marvel character. Yeah, is great.

(25:46):
Batwoman's great. Um, there needs to be a little bit
more representation in video games because I think, besides like
the Last of Us there, I'm trying to think of
a triple A title right now that has like a
main character that is I'll bt, and I can't think
of one on the top of my head. There are
very many UM comic books that's slowly turning around. But

(26:06):
I mean, we're even just fighting to get a woman.
I mean it's like we're finally getting a Captain Marvel movie.
Like it's finally just even getting a woman on screen,
or finally getting black panther on screen. It's it's a
it's a it's a long uphill battle. I would say
a character that I've always enjoyed who I think has
some serious like fizzazz and queer overtones is Bayonetta. Yeah.

(26:28):
All of the Bayonetta games are just super gay. I
don't care what anyone says. She's a drag queen. Character almostly.
And I don't mean that meaning that she's a man
posing as well. I mean as as far as like
the culture goes and as far as how she uses
her sexuality, it is very and the way that she
jokes in the undertones, it's a lot of almost like
drag sona type of stuff. Actually, the more that you

(26:51):
say that, when you when you ask queer nerds, who
do they find that represents them, it's usually a lot
of female characters because there aren't they're not many gay
character is, especially in video games. I think there was
like the Ballad of Gay Tony GRANTSUFT Auto four. That's
another big one. It's been very lacking obviously in in
video games and nerd culture. Yeah, and it's kind of

(27:12):
sometimes that way where it is once again like that
off screen type of stuff where it's like, oh, that
person is gay. But the division had a lesbian a
kind of like your lead point person, which was fay Lal,
But once again that was an off screen stuff you
But that one was a little tricky because that's one

(27:32):
of those games where you get story notes through like
pickups and stuff. But I don't think there was anything
that leaned heavily, heavily on it. But I know she
and that I mean that game as a whole because
it took place in New York, had a lot of uh,
a lot of like gay characters in it, like the
first doctor you help references her wife who died in

(27:52):
this and so. But like, it would be nice to
have like something like The Last of Us where it's
like someone that people can look at and be like
there there, you go right there and not have their sexuality.
It's it's hard because you don't want it as a
plot device. And since that it's like, we're a liberal company,
look at us like that. I think that's why The
Last of Us was so perfect. It's a part of

(28:13):
her character. It affects who you are, it affects how
you Your sexuality does affect so much about your personality.
But it's it's hard to get that where it affects
your personality. But it's not a stereotype and the company
is not using it to make a statement there like
this is just the character and this kisses because it's
it's not a political statement. It's just we're showing a
story and she romance is part of the story. I

(28:34):
do feel like some of them can be a little
bit of a cop out. I agree with that, I
in a different type of way. In the Latin X community,
they recently had Hernandez that was named as Magnum p
I and then people were like, Okay, well he's a
Mexican man, so are you going to like address that
at all, and they were like, not really no, and
it's like, okay, but his America just by definition, it's

(28:56):
going to be a little bit different than the last guy.
Like his experience is, like you said, it's gonna inform,
it's gonna shape his experience. And so for me, it's
kind of like a cop out to just make someone
brown or make someone queer and then not address it
at all. And so that kind of happened a little bit.
I felt like in two thousand seven with J. K.
Rowling and Harry Potter when she was attended to the

(29:18):
Q and A at Carnegie Hall and she revealed that
Dumbledore was gay, and it's like, this is great, that's awesome,
And then we thought, like in Fantastic Beasts or like
and other stuff, that it was going to be addressed
and it's not. And so I kind of just like okay,
And you know, I feel like they did that a
little bit in Deadpool too, where it's just like you
kind of say, like, oh no, they're like explore their sexuality.
It was like, great, are we going to actually see

(29:39):
them with another man? Like are we gonna actually see
them be physical or something? And then they're not, And
then I'm like, so it feels like you're just using
this to say it. I don't know how you guys
feel about that. They're using it to kind of get
the game market on board, on like Twitter, like they're
getting the Twitter gaze on, you know, like that type
of audience, like people on the Internet on board, but
not enough for the casual movie goers watching it to

(29:59):
be a ended. And I feel like that's kind of
like with Dumbledore, that's a huge part of his story
and I don't get I mean, I'm hoping it will be,
you know, eventually explored, but I don't want to judge
because I haven't seen the movie and I understand what
we're saying, like no, that's not his whole entire identity,
but like it does feel a little bit like if
you don't include it, there's a way to you don't

(30:21):
want it to be like where it's shoved down people,
no one wants anything show it's obviously uh speak for yourself,
but there's a way to include it where it's still
your sexuality is always genuine maybe yeah, And it's always
going to affect some of your your character decisions, It
always will. I think it's it's a really difficult line
to walk, right because you want you want to portray

(30:44):
queer and diverse characters in a way that is that
his heartfelt and that is real, and you also don't
want to lose your core audience that is Middle America.
So it's tough. Yeah, I think it's my kind of
thoughts on it. Yeah, I know. And that's such an
interesting kind of stance and walk because are we helping
or hurting by hiding you know this from Middle America?

(31:08):
Because lots of times they in Middle America. You know,
I feel like at times can be cop outs because
I feel like Middle America is the excuse that kept
a movie like Black Panther from being made for so long,
and then we saw how that did move like crazy
rich Asians come up for so long we thought how
that did? And you know, I think Moonlight did well

(31:31):
and I'm sure it didn't make that much money, but
I think that's less because it tackled black gay issues
and more because it was an art house film, you know.
And though there, I think if you were to love Simon,
this year did really actually fantastic speaking of like I mean,
big budget you know movies, I think it. Yeah, it
did fantastic. And so many people watch us and we're like,
I mean, they're so happy that it was an lgp

(31:54):
BT film where it wasn't another person dying from the
AIDS epidemic, where it was like just like it was
is a happy story and it was just a silly
nineteen eighties style like romance comedy that just featured a
guy looking for another guy, and it was just amazingly
well done that people are like, oh, thank god, it
wasn't someone homosexuality. It was part of the movie. They

(32:15):
tackled parts of it, but it wasn't like in a
in a way where it was just a part of
it was just a segment of it, and it was
just part of his character. Yeah, I mean, I think
that's a big part of it too, is we're finally
in the part where we can justify getting better movies
made for those that are not straight and white and
says gender right, Like in the past, all the game
movies were really stupid, and Love Simon is like a

(32:37):
really really good movie. Like the production value is good,
the acting is good, the script is good. All of
it's really good. Black Panther another really good example, Like
everything about Black Panther was like triple A quality, Like
it was brilliant. And I think we're finally getting to
that point where it's like, yeah, we can't tell these
stories and they will be interesting. We just have to
do it right. We are going to take a quick

(32:58):
break and then come back can talk a little bit
more about more of our favorite queer characters, and we
are bad. I wanted to touch on the c w
C there superhero shows, well several of their shows, but
definitely their superhero shows seem to be really taking initiative

(33:19):
as far as including more queer characters. I know, there's
Thunder and Black Lightning, there's Curtis Holt on Arrow, There's
the Flashes, Captain sing, there's Alex Danvers and Supergirl Sarah
Lance and Legends of Tomorrow gave a sharp and Ledgends
of Tomorrow and now we have Ruby Rose as Batwoman.
I don't know if you saw that was announced. Yeah,
that's very exciting. The main character too. You know, bat Woman,

(33:43):
here's one of the most fascinating characters. And you know,
if it was a few years ago and you told
me that they would announce Ruby Rose as Batwoman and
she would be getting tons of hate, I'd be like, oh,
is it because it's a lesbian character? No, because nerds
are bad? Yeah. And and if if they think you don't,
because you know, all nerds are the perfect casting director.

(34:04):
All these great fan casting picks that we see. By
the way, that's what's so funny. It's every time fans
cast something, it's always trash, or the budget would be insane,
or that person would not dedicate, like it's like get
out of here, like they were upset with Was it
Heath Ledger when he was originally Yes, that's so true.

(34:25):
Fantastic um. Yeah, and there's also isn't Voltron have characters?
They just confirmed it at Comic conto. Oh and uh,
thinking of even video games because I forgot this reference.
Tracer from Overwatch, the one of the main faces of
over Watching a lesbians. So yeah, I would be remiss
if I didn't mention Stephen Universe, which is brilliant, beautiful,

(34:50):
such a positive bright I mean even they though if
he even their fans are bad bad you want to
like hit I want to like roll up a newspaper
slash like spray them. But I also think it's the issue.
I mean, Cannon sometimes deals with this. Working at PlayStation.
There is sometimes a huge amount It seems like it's

(35:11):
a large number of people on Twitter, but it's because
it makes people's voices sound bigger than it actually is.
And a lot of times the Internet will freak out
about something. It doesn't necessarily reflect the majority. It doesn't
reflect sales, it doesn't reflect the majority of a fan base.
It doesn't really reflect anything except for Internet. You know,

(35:32):
Twitter height, which sometimes means absolutely nothing. It's it's bizarre. Yeah, no,
that's that's true. I know that you're good friends with
Kelly Marie Tran and she experienced like so much hate
that she got off social media. But the thing is
is that when I was at Comic Con, there were
so many people dressed like Rose Tico that it was
just I mean, what it like, people just love her

(35:53):
so much, But it's hard when like all you've seen
it's a small minority of Star Wars obsessive harassment. Yeah,
and the majority of Star Wars fans are super lovely,
nice people. I think a lot of it has to
do with two with people will have multiple accounts that
the log into it makes if you you you can

(36:15):
have represents so many different people on Twitter that it
allows to for a falsehood of what actually is. But
it's also I mean, it's why you know Kelly's not
on you know, Instagram. It's because sometimes you don't need
to read everything all the negativity. Yeah, and also it's
one thing that's important to know. It may seem like
when you're getting all the notifications and all the people

(36:37):
in your mentions, you know, it may seem like, damn,
this is a huge amount of people who think this,
but only seven percent of Americans are using Twitter. That's
seven percent of Americans are using Twitter a fake account.
That's a lot of fake accounts, and that's a lot
of like, that's not a lot of people. So so

(36:59):
that and and you know what it is. I find
that to be true because whenever something big happens on
Twitter and you do kind of step out to the
real world and you're like, have you heard of this?
And someone hasn't. You're like how, But like when you
see a number like that seven percent, you're like, I guess,
I guess not. You know, I guess I guess it
isn't as as big a big a world as we

(37:21):
think it is. It just feels that way. It is
people from other countries and smaller areas as well. I
was also going to say, talking on the thing of
online harassment, I mean it's something that Cannon has had
to deal with working with PlayStation and everything. I don't know,
if you can talk at all, you get like death
threats from LinkedIn. They used to be really common, so

(37:43):
back when the PlayStation that was a little bit less
reliable than it is now. Any time we have an outage,
it's totally common for people that have PlayStation and they're
linked to profile to get death threats in your in box. Wow,
it's fairly common, and it's it's it's not it's endemic
to the whole gaming industry. Like female friends that work
at studios and a lot of them won't even put
what the name of the studio they're working at because

(38:06):
the game will get released, and then someone will be like, well,
this level, this thing was misdesigned, So I'll go and
find a female graphic artists and just start sending her
death threats and hate mail, and then everyone just bandwagons.
And I remember that was a huge thing that happened
with I Believe Mass Effect, where they were blaming this
one woman for ruining the game, and someone had to
come in and be like, well, she didn't even have

(38:28):
that huge a part of it. There's actually these men,
but you guys are targeting her, and it is interesting,
and you know, does PlayStation do anything to protect y'all?
Like can you report these people and you know, get
their accounts yanked or anything. I mean, it depends on
the social media using. I mean, Lincoln has a pretty
robust reporting system for offensive material, so it's not so bad.

(38:48):
But eventually saying that LinkedIn is like the not the
thing that you should be doing. Like LinkedIn, you can
see where they work and who that person is that
doesn't like Twitter, I understand because you're like a random
anime guitars, but like linked In, the fact that someone
is oh man, I mean, but the craziest thing is
you would think that Twitter would have a more robust
reporting system than linked In, because LinkedIn at least you're

(39:12):
a level of professionals where Twitter should be doing everything
it can. But we're learning more and more every day,
and I'm gonna just leave it at that, and you know,
just leave it at that. Yeah, I think um one thing,
and this probably may sound crass, but you just sort
of learned to rise above it and ignore it because
it used to really bother me. And then I just
started saying, you know, none of this matters, like they're

(39:34):
not going to do anything. These people are hiding behind
a keyboard. And all the people that I went into,
like I have a When we launched the PS four,
everyone got jackets that said PS four Launch Team, and
I would just sometimes wear that out, not thinking, and
I would have people come up in grocery stores and
in malls and just randomly and they'd be like, oh
my god, you worked on the PS four. Can I
shake your hand? And they just like the fans are

(39:55):
like the best part, right, And it's I think it's
important to remember the good experiences more than the bad ones,
because if we let the bad ones kind of occupy
our mind space, then everything's gonna just it's so difficult.
I feel like for me, I look at it as
a glass of water with the amount of sexual harassment
that I deal with, and I send it Chris, I
feel like you have been such a positive I just
want to take this moment. You're just you and Iffy

(40:18):
have seen so much of the the harassment that I've
dealt with trying to be in this space, and I
just both are very supportive men in my life. But
I wanted to say, I look at it as like
a glass of water, and it fills up, fills up,
fills up, fills up, and then eventually I can't take
it anymore and overflows, and then I kind of spiral
from the harassment and I might take a break, I

(40:38):
might step back, and and it sucks. I agree, because
I want to read all my comments. I want to
answer the messages, but that means I have to see
all the really bad ones, and it's very hard mentally
to handle that. I think the scary thing is how
Twitter is like the new KKK hood. I mean, I
do mean that though, because I mean people. It's so

(40:58):
crazy how people who are hateful, spiteful individuals, they do
it in a way where they can still go to
their day jobs. Like you must morally know deep down
inside that you're doing something wrong and hateful if you're
acting that way, but I think you're It's a lot
of people who are on the Internet, and I think
the biggest way that I've used to combat hatred is

(41:19):
with our group meeting nerds who are positive, whether it's queer,
people of color or just people who are loving, you know,
people who are doing something for the better good, whatever
your group is, it's finding people in person to talk to,
because I think the best way to combat the internet
hate is making a present outside. In person is the

(41:41):
best way to combat that. I was just gonna and
I want to get too political, but you know, a
big part of the Trump election for me was processing
how kind of awful it made me feel and how
terrible I thought everything was. And what I eventually decided
after kind of coming out of that fog, was that,
you know, I can't change anyone's mind, I can't fight
the hate directly, but what I can do is I

(42:03):
can spend my time, my energy, and my money on
helping the people in my community and then building that up.
And that's kind of what made me get into activism.
It's why I volunteer at the center. That's why the
Ely Gaming Society is starting to have fundraisers for the
queer youth of Los Angeles, so that we can get people,
you know, onto a better track, so that they're not
homeless or not alone, or they don't feel so depressed

(42:24):
all the time by all this negativity. And I can
say that by putting my focus towards those kinds of things,
my outlook has approved exponentially, even though the news on
a fairly consistent negative is crazy. Like having a positive
outlet where I can take kind of that nervous negative
energy and work it into something has made a world
difference for me. Well, I mean you saw, like you

(42:46):
see negative homophobic like Kitako would have like a negative
you know, this homophobic thing happened today. They didn't write
about like our E three party, how we raised so
much money for the we I think we raised I
don't even know how many, Like five is over five
thousand dollars just for video games for LGBT, you know,
youth to play at the Center, um, so that they

(43:08):
can have an outlet, which is amazingly enough, by the way,
video games is such a healthy outlet that brings people together.
And and then seeing people being brought together who are
queer nerds who are thirty to forty years old, you know,
who never had that outlet and in an adult space.
I think they're positive things that are happening by us
focusing on our community. I'm hoping that maybe the news

(43:31):
can eventually pick up on some of those positive articles.
To quote a great movie by the name of Nightcrawler.
If it leads, it leads, you know, and that's the
that's what the news is in the business of the
moment the news became the business. It's less about you know,
sharing the news and more so what can we do
that's going to you know, activate people and get a

(43:55):
reaction out of them and get them sharing our stuff.
So yeah, it does. I find in multiple communities and
multiple things throughout the new scope, everything positive kind of
gets swept under the rug because they'd rather get someone
mad who's going to retweet it and then say something
snark and then someone's gonna add their snark. Me usually

(44:16):
I'm involved in that. But yeah, so it is. And
I think that is a great advice to anyone in
their communities is if you are feeling hopeless, are feeling like,
how do I make a change? Everyone thinks that, you know,
I find that a lot of people believe that you
need a million dollars to make meaningful change, and that's

(44:39):
just not the case. You know, meaningful change could just
be as simple as mentoring you know, someone who is
you know, just like you, or someone who you think
needs it. You know. Like I was thinking about the
whole Middle America excuse that we were talking about earlier.
I was like, to say that you'd don't think this

(45:00):
movie will do well because of Middle America is to
say that you don't believe that there's a young gay
kid in Middle America, that there isn't a young Asian
kid in Middle America. There there isn't a young black
kid in Middle America, or that there's no one in
Middle America that has the empathy to take in this
story and and enjoy it and understand it and like it, because,

(45:22):
like Chris said, it's you know, Simon being gay is
a part of the story, but in the end, it's
still a great story. And I feel like it's unfair
to kind of scapegoat Middle America. We often based on
the excuse that Hollywood likes to get away with this
Middle America. You're saying they are dumb, that they are
all bigoted. It's all white and it's all white males

(45:45):
in Middle America and that's why you can never do it.
When I wouldn't care if only one little black kid
in Oklahoma got to see Black Panther, that would have
made it work there. Or one gay kid in you know,
Oklahoma who got to see love Simon like that, that
to me is more powerful than you know, a thousand

(46:07):
kids who who are in a coastal city that you know,
can eventually hopefully find a community. You know. But I
think the problem is I think people just want good stories.
And the problem is like there will be a movie
with a black superhero or a woman superhero that, for
whatever reason the development cycle someone doesn't believe in. They're like,
they won't like this, they don't put the right resources

(46:30):
into it. The actual movie, video game, whatever media format
it is isn't good because they didn't believe in it,
and then it fails in like, see, I told you
it wouldn't do well because people don't want women as
superheroes and they're like, no, it's because Catwoman was an awful, awful,
like it just wasn't a good movie. But then you can,
I know, for the wrong reasons. But then you see

(46:53):
wonder Woman, which was a well written, you know movie
with the right cast and everything. It's like, as long
as something is well written, people will watch it. People
will by the Last of Us too, because it's a
well written video game. They don't care that, you know
what I mean whatnot? So yeah, I did want to
go over a couple of more queer characters before we

(47:14):
moved on. One of them Valkyrie Tessa Thompson real life
couple Tessa Thompson and Janelle Monet. I'm so glad they
found each other because no one else deserves them. I
don't know if you guys watched Luke Cage this season,
but Shades, that was very exciting to have them openly
I guess, kind of openly confirmed at least I think

(47:36):
the show runner did confirmed that that he's queer, and
they actually had a moment of development for his character,
so that was really nice. The Walking Dead, my friend
Ross Markwan plays Aaron on there um and I believe
that they also have Tara and very lgbtwo. Yeah, TVs.
I think TV is the first format that's enough power.
Gays have gone and involved with TV ad you know,

(48:01):
but we have shown that, like like with anything, all
that matters is a good is good writing, good story,
good you know, direction and it and everything else, that
it should be different characters and yeah, oh uh, Negasonic
teenage Warhead, she's so badass. I mean I wish that
they had done more to develop their like her relationship

(48:21):
and Deadpool to like even she kind of was pretty
much just a side character, which again we see we
keep seeing, but I do think she's so cool. She
actually sorry for it, but she actually requested that is
I believe pan sexual or bisexual, and she was like,
you could make my character lesbian, but I don't want
it to be a thing in the movie. Yeah, and

(48:42):
again I get that, like we keep going back and
forth of like I wish that they would address it more.
But then and maybe it's not necessarily that it needs
to be addressed with her, but just because it's not
addressed enough, well, I think they actually addressed it pretty
well because it's like here's me and my girlfriend. That's it.
That's it, and that's all they had to do as
long as it's not like some like the Deadpool Too
director two years later coming out saying that she was

(49:05):
a lesbian the whole time. And then there's Are It's like, okay,
you know what I mean, like they dress as long
as I mean, I mean, not that necessarily, I mean
having character development, like being able to have a character
growth with your romantic part. I mean I just missed
her in the movie in general, like I just wanted
more of her. Yeah. Yeah. And then two other just
main points that I want to say. Stephen Universe had
the first cartoon lesbian wedding. Um yeah, that's really cool, Like,

(49:30):
you know, it's not something that they'd probably be able
to do even five years ago, I don't know Cartoon Network.
And then Batgirl in the comics had the first transgender
wedding in the comics. I believe that was when GAYL
Simone was still writing. Yeah, and North I think The
North Star had a wedding issue as well. Well. There's
um Sinna Grace, who I got to meet on a
DC shoot that I did. He is doing Iceman. I

(49:51):
don't know if you follow that at all, but that
is he had a coming out moment in the comics,
and then it's kind of his development as a superhero,
but also having to deal with with coming out, which
is great because especially as if nerds are from you know,
a community where their parents are you know, probably homophobic
or whatever, they can just like sneak in an iceman

(50:12):
and their parents are gonna say it's a comic book,
and their parents are gonna they're like, oh, it's this
masculine looking character. They're not gonna say anything. So they're
writing something I think more than what's needed, more than
they probably know by doing that. Yeah, I think we
need to take a quick break, but when you get back,
we're going to jump into the rest of this and

(50:33):
keep it spicy. Oh right, what's up is your boy?
You know who it is, if he's still here with
Danny and our wonderful guests Christopher and Cannon, and we're
talking about I feel like it's a real open discussion

(50:56):
about you know, lgbt Q and nerd um and I
think it's really thank you for joining us and letting
us Yeah, thank you for having fun. I will say,
I'm really excited too for the nerd fam that's going
to check this out because I've seen nerd fam tweed
net of me and they'll have the rainbow flag in
their screen name, and you know that's how we know.

(51:17):
I'd like that We've have made our for lack of
a better description, planted our flags and our Twitter where
it's like, you know, Nigerians will throw the Nigerian fat.
Dominicans love putting that Dominican flag in their joint. You know,
the LGBTQ community has the rainbow flag. We all know
where we at, just so you know who you're talking to. Well,

(51:38):
it's cool because even like PlayStation changed their icon during
Pride Month, symbol Nation did too. And it's funny because
you had like a lot of bitter people and sometimes
a few of them were straight. So I was like
chilled that were like, oh the consumerism of the Da
da da and this, and Guy Brandham did a real
funny joke of being like, oh, I'm sorry that for once,

(52:01):
we're being accepted and not burned at the stake, and
can you feel bitter? Like it was really great. Of
course I'm not doing it as great as Guy, because well,
people would tweet aut Funimation and they would just reply
with gay anime gifts and I loved it so much
because they have they also owned that like volleyball, the
volleyball boys one oh yeah, and the swim team at

(52:25):
that event right where they just had like a bunch
of boys and petoes and then girls were young, I
was like, what is Oh yeah, it was my family.
I love them so much. I remember one and something
you can get in there. I remember once um I
was announced as like a host on something and someone like,
I'm sorry, but do you even know anything about dragon Ball?

(52:46):
And someone one of the Funimation people want on the
account and was like, oh, she knows, and like tweeted
it out to everybody. I also have to say they've
been very supportive because Danny has put us in contact
with Funimation and just as a gay video game you
know group, Funimation is donated so so much, especially when
we had our E three after party just to shout out.

(53:08):
Fundimation gave us stuff, Square Enix gave us a ton
of stuff, and of course PlayStation you know, gave us
all of these free PlayStations to give out. So it's
great that you know they've been PlayStations. Huh. The weird
thing is we still get like we had like Nintendo
nerds show up and they're like, where's our switch and
we're like, I mean, yeah, it's a PlayStation of it's past,

(53:31):
and yeah, good luck with getting Nintendo to yea sponsor
anything LGBT. Alright, well, speaking of speaking of finding your space,
let's talk about the first gay space on the Internet.
It was called s oc dot M O T S
S Yeah, and basically anticipated how we use social networks today.

(53:55):
Right in programmers, Steve Dire started a discussion for him
called net Moths later sock Moths on the used net
news group system. Fun fact, So I had this super
hyper nerd who I went to high school with. I
forget his name, but I remember he was very practical
and he told me, and it's so funny because I'm mad.

(54:18):
I was mad then and now I'm even more mad
because he was right because I used to do art,
and uh, I would like, do the art, and then
I would tell him, like the whole story behind, like
the comic I was trying to make and all this stuff,
and he straight up to my face was like, yeah,
your art is not good, but you'll probably be an
amazing writer. And I remember being like this dude, and

(54:44):
like I'm a professional writer now kind of yeah, I'm
mad about that. Is that your gay friend that told
you that you'll be a great writer? He? Uh, he
was this other dude. He was like almost stops. He

(55:04):
was like a Jehovah's witness, and I like, so maybe,
but he was really into building computers. And this was
like back when I was a freshman, so this was
hella new to me. And he had this guy who
was like his kind of mentor and was teaching him
about building computers. And he was like, you gotta check

(55:26):
out this thing called newsgroups, newsgroups or where it's at.
You gotta go on newsgroups. Uh, And he kind of
told me how to do it, but I never figured
out how to work. I had like the client to
launch into newsgroups, but like, it's crazy reading about his
news groups was like early internet stuff. But anyway, we'll suck.
So suck is it suck? MOTS just we're gonna just

(55:48):
someone will correct us, probably, I want to say. MOTS
stood for members of the same sex, and so it
was a way for it was essentially had threads and
it was a way for people to to talk and
members to talk. And it was actually one of the
biggest membership communities of the early Internet. And it's really
interesting because you can still go uh search on sock

(56:09):
mats and see all of these forums from the eighties
and see the first almost like the first time of
like gay communication then and especially during a you know,
troublesome time of the AIDS epidemic and everything it was
as a gay person. It's it's really hard because it's
not like, you know, when you have a Latino family
or a black family behind you, you have people to

(56:30):
kind of give your your culture, not just do are
we not born from obviously gay parents, but a lot
of people from the eighties died and a lot of
these amazing innovative LGBT people are dead now and we
will never really will get their stories told to us.
It's great to see the conversation still there in print

(56:51):
talking about dealing with some of the same things that
our community still faces, and and seeing that in print
just made me feel like just I got really emotional
reading some of it because I was like, wow, this
is what and also how little things have changed. You
can kind of see how the early development of Internet
talked like it was very much like reading a gay reddit.

(57:13):
Threat of people just back and forth just talking about
I think there was even just like a huge debate
on speedos or something. It was like a weird like
Speedo colors, and I was like, this is something that
would still just be on my Facebook feed. Now. I
know that is wild because it is because there's one
thing when you look at movies that portray a time

(57:34):
and like, you know, especially like if you for lack
of a better movie, even though this movie it was
problematic a f but like, um, it was about the riots, um,
but like you had all weight, all white gay cast
uh no, which I mean black trans women are what

(57:57):
They've really laid the groundwork for the LGBT movement. They
did so much for us, and to see them just
being completely underrepresented when they did so much work, and
then just to see white gay men in the front
of this movie was It's so sad, man, I mean
they still do. It's we're finally getting I mean, we're
getting what's the show, Pope finally giving black trans women,

(58:24):
I mean just trans women in general, the most underrepresented
group in this country, just a voice that they need.
I think that's so cool about members of the same
sex as um, this this group is that Like, also,
you hear movies, there's so many movies about the AIDS epidemic,
and to finally actually see what the conversations were just
like there's no, it wasn't a published article. It wasn't

(58:47):
It was just like people conversing about AIDS, a lot
of misinformation, a lot of people that just had no
idea what it was happening. And just see those conversations
just typed up. It's something that it wasn't for this,
we would not be able to experience anything like And
that's what That's what the point I was making is
like when you see that portrayed in movies, you're getting

(59:07):
this kind of dramatized, kind of assumed idea of what's
going on, and this is just cold hard facts. These
are what the people at the time we're talking about.
Like imagine if you can go back to like the
civil rights movement and see, like you know, the sneak
shots that Malcolm Max and Martin Luther King were shooting
at each other on the forums, Like you're getting a

(59:28):
very real representation and that, I think is something that's
going to be cool about the future. Is like when
we move from now, people are going to be able
to pull the things that we've said and it's not
going to be a question of you know, this is
kind of like what the general idea was it you
have it right there. It's also I think the it's

(59:50):
why there are so many LGBT nerds is because most people,
I mean, Cannon and I came from both very homophobic backgrounds,
and I think we both latched onto video games and
nerd culture because that was our safe space. That was
our favor space for figuring out what being gay is.
That my first the first person I ever told that

(01:00:11):
I was gay too was an internet friend that I've
still did this day. I've never you know, met, but
someone that I would That was the first part because
that was safe to me, was telling someone on the
on the internet when I was you know, you know,
young enough. That was the only safe space for us.
That's the only way to find information, that was the
only way, especially in small rural towns. That that's it.

(01:00:32):
I mean, that's so interesting to me, if you don't
mind elaborating, what was that experience, like, how how what
was the reaction? You know, when I first came out
to my parents was one of the most difficult times. Ever,
I I didn't talk to my mom for like months afterwards,
and um, it kind of makes me feel sad and
a little empty that the only loving and supporting um

(01:00:54):
relationship that I could have to tell someone was someone
on the internet that I would never get that comfort from.
Is a straight guy on the internet that I played
an online game with, But that was the only person
I felt comfortable with and the only person that I
had And it's kind of why I mean, Cannon and
I both gravitated towards finding this. You know, l A

(01:01:15):
Gaming Society is so that we could get people who
are queer nerds to actually be able to meet up
and actually feel like they have a support group because
even especially in even though la is very liberal, there's
so many places outside of l A, California that are
very very homophobic. People that don't have homes, and it's

(01:01:35):
hard enough for someone that's young and charismatic to move
to I mean that to move to l A and
be beautiful for people who it's difficult for them to
talk to, we have we have to give them a
safe space because I feel like no one's fighting for them,
and no one really fought for us. So we kind
of had to do something to kind of create a space.
And that's why I mean Cannon's family to me, you know,

(01:01:57):
because we had to create our own family, and I
don't know the internet. The Internet, we would have never
had lags if it wasn't for Reddit, for you know,
the gay forms. I mean, you can talk about that
a little bit. Yeah, I mean that there's there's a
lot there, but I think, um, you're exactly right. I think,
you know, gaming for so many people is their outlet

(01:02:18):
because a lot of people live in a situation or
in a circumstance that is dire, or is frustrating or
is sad. So the nice thing about gaming is you
know that that can be an outlet and escape for everyone.
The downside of that is a lot of people take
that negativity with them from whatever suffering it is that
they have and they bring it into that space. And
that's why you have the homophobia and the misogyny and

(01:02:40):
the racism and all the ugly parts, right, And a
lot of people I think don't realize that that they're
bringing that with them. So when you're when you're queer
like we are, and you you want to have you
want to have your outlet, right, you wanta have that
thing you grew up with where you bonded, and you
want to have that safe space where you can play
those games and just enjoy yourself. Right. So, to kind

(01:03:03):
of bounce off with you said, I'm a big proponent
of creating your own family. It's something that a lot
of queer people have to do because we don't have
we we don't really have another option. So creating that
queer family around something like gaming has been a really,
really great experience, and I think it is something we
fought really hard for over the past few years, but
it's it's worth it. Like we we just had a

(01:03:26):
meet up last weekend on right, We just took a
bunch of nerds to the beach. And it's like every
time we have a new meet up, we always meet
new people from different countries and different counties in different places,
like from all over and they're just like, yeah, my
friend you know told me about this group because I
didn't have any friends when I moved here, and my
family doesn't talk to me when I came out, and
this is really cool, Like I've never met this many

(01:03:47):
gay people before. And most of the time they're connected
from meeting someone from the Internet. And that's why nerd
curl culture is so important and why internet culture is
so important for us, because I mean, I can't imagine
what it would be like our where I would be
without the Internet and being able to meet people and
find people that were like me. You know, I think

(01:04:09):
a lot of people can relate to their internet friends
almost being closer than in real life people that they know.
I know, I see that a lot in discord if
you and I used to host at a channel called
hyper RPG, which is a very positive channel, but they
had a very positive discord of people that could talk
about their problems and issues in a way that they
wouldn't be able to around their family. And I found that.

(01:04:31):
So I would pop in there and and be talking
about things and and harassment and stuff that I was
dealing with, and they would all come to my aid.
But it was just so nice to see the positive
parts of of nerd um like you were saying, and
to remind ourselves of that, yeah, that it's not all
gamer gait and crazy, just death threats toward that's a

(01:04:53):
small and there. And at the same time they're trying
to find a movement that they can latch onto you
that makes them feel like they're a part of something
and they're angry about other things besides just that that
is just being projected the wrong way. All we can
do is create positive movements and hopefully get people that

(01:05:13):
that might be a part of this. You know, there
are a lot of people, for instance, that are in
gamer Gate that are really really great people that are
just have a lot of misinformation, that just want to
be a part of something and they want to change
the gaming industry and they wanted things to be positive,
but they have a lot of mislead information and they
start taking out um or they might not even take
things out on women, but they support other people that do.

(01:05:36):
And I think all we can do is create positive
groups where they feel like people who feel like they
need to be a part of something can latch onto
those positive groups and create something positive. If you was
going to say, I think that we might have to
take in landing, I know I wanted to touch on
Star Trek, but I think that Danny was like, I'm
scared someone's gonna, you know, be mad that we didn't

(01:05:57):
talk about all things. Because Star Trek was a huge
part of what I'm gonna say is I wanted to
I did want to address it, but I'll address it
on us our Star Trek episode. Actually, um so, Kenny
might have to have you back for that because that's
something that you would love that. Yes, you talk about
gay Star Trek exactly, well, we need to talk about

(01:06:17):
the lack of it for a huge part and then
how it just kind of came in. But anyways, um,
where can everyone find you? And if people want to
join any of your organizations, if you could let us know. Yeah,
you can type up LAGS that's LAGS, l A Gaming Society,
g A y Gaming uh Society on Facebook. We have

(01:06:38):
a Facebook group. Would love to add you on their
h My name is at Tinder Chris on Instagram and Twitter.
Also just as a plug, check out Cooking on High
on Netflix. That's a show I'm on. We need a
season two so I needed money, So please watch Clicking
on High on Netflix and get me a job. Um

(01:07:00):
Canon h Yeah, I feel free to add me on
Facebook if you're so inclined. If you're into more nerdy
fun stuff and video games. I love expanding my online family.
Also fund my Instagram at Canon dot gift. Yeah, reach
out to Yeah Tinder Chris and Cannon dot gift on Instagram.
We love helping out, Like, by the way, is there
any young queer listeners or anyone that needs help or

(01:07:22):
any advice. You can reach out to us and we
would love to give you advice and help you guys out. Yes,
and I also love the anime post that you have
the funniest Instagram stories, Chris. I go through all of them.
It's all Sailor Moon and Yeah in there too. I
am at ms Danny Fernandez. Um, yeah, what what? Please

(01:07:46):
check out our tea public. Everyone's been loving those shirts.
We did a get away, will probably do one again
in the future, but in the meantime, go grab some shirts.
I'm going to get the Batman one. I'm really excited,
dope as hell. Oh, I will be at New York
Comic Con, so I get to announce my Yes, I'm
so excited to share some news with y'all. But yes,
if you're going to be at New York Comic Con,

(01:08:07):
I will also be there. This is my first time,
so tell me what to do and and uh yeah,
and and I have a panel on Friday that I
get to announce in a little bit. So okay, I
was waiting for you to announce it and you didn't
say anything. I have a pass. I'll probably be hanging out.
You know, you might see me there, you might not
pay attention. Catch me at F Y n W A

(01:08:32):
D I D E on Twitter and Instagram. If these
on Twitch, Thank you all the nerd fan coming through
dropping those Twitch prime subs. And here is your regular
reminder that if you twitch prime sub you gotta do
what every month it doesn't auto renew. I need them bucks. Maybe.
Thank you so much. I love y'all, and as always, wait,
I wanted to say, um, please tweet at us your

(01:08:53):
favorite queer characters are like when you first filmed yourself
representing anything that we might have missed. We'd need any
references that we probably missed a lot, so help us out.
Definitely do that tweet it. We're gonna retweet you, share
the love. Really want y'all feeling nice and represented, because,
like our motto says, it's a nerdy deep dive for everyone. Uh,

(01:09:14):
don't make me. Don't make me do the tweet where
I retweet you, then I drag you. Then I go
to the part where it says a nerdy deep dive
for everyone, and zoom in on everyone. You know what
I'm talking about, and you know what I'm asking you
not to do, so don't do it. But on that note,

(01:09:36):
stay nerdy everyone,