August 9, 2024 • 37 mins
For all our schooling, no one ever told us the very best way to sit. (Note this Seth Kinman Grizzly Bear Chair is NOT the best way to sit.) Also, no one taught us what temperature to keep our office at for maximum productivity. Or why cracking jokes might be helpful for elevating status in the workplace. And certainly NONE of our English professors told us how writing in the nude might be a great hack for hitting deadlines. For this week's episode, Will and Mango explore all the very best ways to work. (Note: the answer may involve Amtrak.)
...
Want to get in touch? Whether you want to share a fact, story, or even just let us know how we're doing, you can write our moms at PTGeniusMoms@gmail.com. Don't worry. They'll pass the message along.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to Part Time Genius, a production of Kaleidoscope,
and iHeartRadio. Guess what Will?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
What's that? Mango?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
So I had a big writing assignment last week, and
I was not nearly as productive as I should have been.
I procrastinated, I got distracted, and I kind of pushed
off the assignment for way too long.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I like that you're leaving out one key fact that
you were actually supposed to be on vacation last week.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I know, but I'd set aside a few hours so
that I could keep some projects on track. And then
I missed my deadline. So I started doing what I
always do when i'm behind. I looked up tricks for
how to work better, and I stumbled into this old
chestnut about how Victor Hugo used to make sure he
didn't procrastinate. Basically, whenever he got writer's block, he'd have
(00:53):
his servant take all his clothes away and leave him
with only a pen and paper, so we had nothing
to do but write in the nude, which I guess
is how he hit all his deadlines.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
And also sounds a little bit extreme if you ask me.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, But one thing I've been wondering about is whether
it was the fact that he was stuck in his
house without clothes that made him write, or whether it
was actually being nude that put him in the mood
to do the writing and inspired him. Like Hemingway wrote
Nude at a standing desk. Ben Franklin famously took airbats
where you'd wake up early, you know, sit by a
drafty window and feel invigorated to journal before going back
(01:30):
to bed for sort of a wonderful sleep. Churchill Agatha
Christie both worked from the back. So there are a
lot of these folks.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Wow. But for all our listeners, just to know you
you are not only working right now, but you are
fully closed as we record. So I'm thankful for that.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah. Well, you know, I'm too Victorian to work in
the nude, even in my own house. But hearing those
facts made me wonder what are the best ways to work?
So that's what this episode is all about. Let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm
Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good
friend Mangesh hot Ticketter and sitting behind that big booth
manning the mixing board, doing it like none other and
actually today he's truly doing it like none other. I
think he's on a Nordic track. Is that what that is?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah? I guess some people work from standing desks and
some people use treadmill dust, but Dylan has decided he's
most productive when he's cross country skiings.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know what, there's sometimes I
question what Dylan's doing, but this actually feels on brand
for him. It seems to makes sense for him. But anyway, mego.
You and our researcher Mary Phillip Sandy came up with
the topic for this week's episode, and it's all about
what are the best ways to work? So let's talk
about that.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, and today's episode is kind of a jumble of things.
Mary and I were brainstorming big questions we could answer
for the show, and she was like, there are so
many little things I don't know, Like I sit all
day and I don't know what's the best way to sit.
And of course, you know, at the time, I was
crossed like it on my bed, and you know, I
had a cramped neck from hunching forward. So of course
(03:24):
that's one of the things I wanted to know. But
we thought with so many people working from home now,
it might be helpful to hear about everything from some
productivity tips to how to sit to how far you
need to place your laptop screen from your Nordic track
for ultimate comfort.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Glad we're going to be giving that tip. So all right,
let's figure out where where do we want to start
here today?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
How about with ergonomics, which is such a clunky and
weird word. But what do you think when you hear
the word ergonomics.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
You know, as soon as you said it, I kind
of pictured those wavy keyboards that people started using in nineties,
or an office full of yoga ball chairs, like we
saw so many of these, how quickly these took over
actually our office for a while back in Mental Fluss.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It was like overnight. It was like an epidemic, Like
suddenly everyone was either at a standing desk or a
yoga ball and I just kept sitting at a normal
desk with a swivel chair, just like a rube.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
But it's embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I was thinking about those giant mouse rollerballs that you know,
I don't even know if you remember these, but they
were like red arcade ball like controllers almost, and they'd
sit in the middle of something that kind of looked
like a tiny Tesla truck. But I was also thinking
about like the first time I'd seen it in my lifetime.
I remember that my dad brought home this Swedish ergonomic
(04:41):
chair for our computer in the eighties. It had no
back and you kind of kneel into it, and every
single kid who came to my house commented on how
weird it was. But the whole idea was it was
supposed to make you sit straight and be better for
your posture. So, you know, obviously ergonomics has been a
thing in our lifetime, but I actually had no idea
how old the discipline is.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
And because I have no idea, I think you're baiting
me into asking you this question. But how old are
we talking about here?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah? I like how you picked off on my queue there.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, thank you man. We really work well together.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Mary pulled this research for me from the Berkeley School
of Public Health website, and apparently ergonomics states back to
four hundred BCE, all the way back to the ancient Greeks,
so just a little before the nineteen eighties when my
dad was Swedish kneeling at his tandy or whatever. But
According to the site quote, archaeologists have found drawings and
(05:34):
paintings of chairs with contrad backs and hand tools that
resemble designs we still use today, which you know is
really remarkable. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I mean, it's funny to think about, like a stone
bench with an indentation for your butt to be considered ergonomics,
but I guess it makes sense, right, Like if you're
gonna sit comfortably, it makes sense to kind of contour
it more to your body.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, And apparently Hippocrates got into the action as well.
He wrote about how to arrange surgeons to for optimal
workflow during surgery. So really we've been thinking about how
best to do our work for a very long time,
but for our stories purposes. The real study of work
begins in the seventeenth century, and this is when an
Italian doctor named Bernardino Ramazzini, which you know is a
(06:16):
great name. For the first time, perhaps he begins to
notice patterns that certain types of work brings certain pains, right,
and he begins looking at why workers are suffering from
various ailments. He starts by visiting their workplaces, observing how
they work, and then he does all these interviews to
understand how their work is affecting their bodies, and this
(06:40):
is in seventeen hundred. He publishes his observations in a
book called The Diseases of the Workers.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So if this was seventeen hundred, like, what type of
work is he studying here?
Speaker 1 (06:50):
He studies over one hundred professions and it's everything from
bakers and miller's to fishermen, to stonecutters to glassmakers. He's
also in including athletes and singers. It is surprisingly comprehensive,
and he starts to notice how various violent motions or
irregular motions, and also waits that these workers are carrying
(07:12):
daily how that's taking a toll across various classes of workers.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
So would he be considered like the father of ergonomics.
Then he's more considered the father of occupational medicine. And
his contribution is mostly in linking repetitive work to pains
and disorders, but it is interesting he also notes the
mental stresses on people who are doing things like accounting work.
These people have to get the numbers right to keep
their jobs, and so there's immense pressure on them. And
(07:39):
he's also looking at things like environmental conditions, so he
notices the breathing difficulties that millers get and the asthma
that they get from all these like powders and things
in the air. And he's quoted as saying it's far
better to prevent than to cure. So he's really.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Ahead of his time.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, no kidding. But to your question.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
About ergonomics, the word ergonomics gets coin in the eighteen
fifties and this is by a Polish author and it
kind of means the science of work or laws of work,
and it isn't really until about one hundred years later
that it takes on its current meaning of fitting a
job to a person or a body. But before we
get into that, I want to talk briefly about the
concept of business management, which arose in the late eighteen hundreds,
(08:20):
and it is really fascinating to me. So this is
during the Industrial Revolution, or at least impacted by it,
when industrialization becomes synonymous with work. And just stay with
me here because it feels like a tangent, but it's not.
Industrials were interested in the idea of efficiency, right, but
it wasn't like they wanted to protect workers from these
(08:42):
repetitive stress injuries. As businessmen, their goal was really to
extract as much value as possible from workers and kind
of treating their bodies like machines, making the most of
their bodies. And one consultant who helps figure out how
to do this is a guy named Frederick W. Taylor,
who basically believed that workers can always be made to
produce more and less time with less motion.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Wow, always be made to So he's kind of a
nightmare boss.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah. His work is basically going to take any remaining
power out of the worker's hands and place it in
the hands of the bosses. At the time, they call
it quote scientific management, right, that's the term for it,
and later they refer to this practice as tailorism. But basically,
these efficiency engineers, as they were called, we're trying to
figure out the one best way to do every task
the quickest and the way they studied this is really incredible.
(09:31):
This comes from an article in Jacobin magazine and goes
quote it's hard to overstate how far efficiency engineers went
to measure and survey of workers' bodies. They used stopwatches,
photographed and film workers, and tied light bulbs to workers
fingers in order to trace hand movements across long exposure photographs.
One engineer, Frank Gilbert, disaggregated each finger, shoulder, and foot,
(09:56):
plotting individual movements in units in the thousandth of a minute.
So yeah, I mean, the observation is intense, and they're
collecting amen's data, and they are analyzing every part of
every single mechanical task.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
That is wild. And so what do they do with
all this data?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Basically, they're getting paid to make a company more profitable, right,
So they walk the employees through these studies and point
out their inefficiencies and show them how to work faster. Basically,
they fire anyone who refuses or can't keep up. But
because these are upper class men, they're also trying to
temp down any class conflicts or resentments that could arise,
and they're trying to ease this transition into getting people
(10:36):
to work harder. So they push for pay bonuses based
on worker efficiency, and workers are incentivized to work faster,
and that way the workers are at least a little
happier and managers get more product, which they see as
a win win, I.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Mean, I guess so. But obviously these bonuses aren't so
big that anybody's getting rich here, right, The workers can do.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
A little better, but their bodies are going to take
a toll for it. And there's an interesting side note here,
a bunch of the more skilled workers start to push back.
As the Jacobin article points out, quote the diversion experiences
of machinists and shovelers was pretty illustrative. So the shovelers
were less organized and easier to replace, and they were
really pushed to the limit by the efficiency experts. One
(11:18):
study from the time actually showed that they ended up
heaving two hundred and seventy percent more tonnage than before
the consultants arrived. Wow, so they're working their tails off.
It is brutal and its backbreaking work. And meanwhile, the
machinists actually have some leverage. They kind of hold their
trade secrets close to them and they unionize their response
(11:38):
and this ends up protecting them because when managers try
to control them, they act collectively and can better dictate terms. Anyway,
this all leads back to ergonomics.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I'm glad you say that, because I was just about
to ask that.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah. So, as tailorism and this mechanization of the human
body was taking place, workers want to avoid being fit
leagued all the time, and they want to protect their health.
So in the nineteen twenties, researchers start making the case
for more humane work and not burning out your workforce.
There's this conference in Russia, but this movement takes off
(12:12):
all over and you know, this more humane work is
called ergology, which later becomes ergonomics, which you know later
translates into offices that are wall to wall with yoga
ball chairs.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Finally we got there. That was that was worth it though, Manga.
That was actually very interesting, and I know there's more
story to get to, but I also know we're talking
about the best ways to work, and one thing that
people definitely want to know is some definitive answer on
how to sit and not destroy their bodies because you
hear so much about the damage that it does to
sit for so long.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, so I'm glad you took this on because I'm
very curious about this. So tell me.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Well, one of the first places to go to if
you thinking about anything health related is the Mayo Clinic.
So I decided to go to the website and look
at the guidelines there. Now, before you start working, you'll
want to pull out a tape measure and possibly a protractor.
If you don't know what a right angle is, or
if you've got those ready, I'll continue here. One your
knees should be about level with the hips when you
(13:10):
are seated, with your thighs parallel to the floor, So
clearly sitting on a high stool or a bean bag
is not ideal. Two your hands should be at or
below elbow level with the wrist straight. Three. If your
desk has a hard edge, you should pad the edge
to protect your wrist from the contact stress. So this
includes laptops, Like if you're resting your wrist on a
(13:32):
hard laptop, you'll want padding there. And four, if you're
using a monitor, that should be no closer to you
than twenty inches and no further away than forty inches,
and you'll want the top of the screen to be
at or slightly below eye level. Now I have to admit,
when I read many of these things, I violated almost
every single one of them.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
I also have no idea how far my computer screen
is for me any time.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, on that at air inches. I don't know about you.
Like on a table, I can do it, but air
inches is not my specialty.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I also feel like I assume it must be like
twenty to forty inches from my face at all times,
but except when I don't have my glasses on and
then it's pressed up against my face. Is that distance
for your eyesight or is it for neck I posture reasons?
Why is that distance so important? It actually prevents both
eyestrain and next strain. Though, if you're looking to protect
(14:26):
your eyes, the other thing you're supposed to do is
follow the twenty twenty twenty rules. So this is where
every twenty minutes you're supposed to take a twenty second
break to look at an object twenty feet away. This
rule was developed by an optometrist from California name Jeffrey Anshell,
and this was a way to help people avoid headaches
and eyestrain. But you can also close your eyes for
(14:47):
twenty seconds and that has a similar kind of effect.
Twenty seconds doesn't feel like long enough, Like, yeah, that's
almost teasing my brain into thinking it's taking a nap.
We've covered angle you should say at and how far
your screen should be from your face, But what about
the whole like sitting standing treadmill desk argument, Like what's
the optimal way to work on that front?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
You know, the ideal seems to be alternating between sitting
and standing, because sitting for too long or being sedentary
increases your risk for a whole host of different diseases.
I mean everything from Parkinson's two strokes, to cancers, two
diabetes to Alzheimer's. Like, it's really as interesting looking at
the list and terrifying at this list of you know,
sort of tied back to this.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
It's so scary like that sitting for long periods can
increase your chances of getting six. So how much do
I have to alternate for this?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
You'll need to turn to the International Ergonomics and Human
Factors Association, which I don't think you knew a whole
lot about before this episode, and they recommend sitting for
ten minutes, then standing up for five, and then repeating
that throughout the day. So not too bad.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
First of all, please don't make any assumptions, because that
is my homepage. I could.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't have assumed.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
But I also don't know how you're supposed to remember
to do that like all the time. Like I feel
like the only way I could remember is if my
desk automatically lifted and lowered like every five and ten minutes.
It just feels kind of impractical. Plus you've got to
close your eyes or look twenty feet away every twenty minutes,
so like none of those numbers really line up.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's uh, it's interesting. I mean, if
you can't pull off the ten minutes sitting, five minutes
standing routine, there's an alternative that can help your workflow.
You can work for twenty minutes, take a two minute
active break. That's like second best option here. But when
you do that, you can also close your eyes for
the first twenty seconds or just naturally look around. But
(16:40):
hopefully you're not taking this active break and closing your
eyes for the first twenty seconds, because that seems dangerous
as well.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I also like that you've ranked these like, I guess
I've got a whole list, right, I'm gonna go with
option too, But is there a third place? The truth is, like,
if you're writing or researching, I feel like you get
in a flow and then you just forget time.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, I mean, it actually would be good to make
time for that two minute break, just because it's helpful
for anyone with a history of diabetes in the family.
And I know you have some in the family as well,
and according to the site, getting up more frequently can
quote lower your post prandial glucose and insulin levels, which
means that avoiding sitting for long periods of time can
(17:21):
actually be an effective way of reducing the risk of
type two diabetes.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
That's amazing and I wonder you know, as people start
adapting more to this information, if it's like during the SATs,
we'll see kids just standing up in the middle of
a section and running in place to keep their diabetes away.
It kind of makes sense.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Well, there's one other suggestion if you can't keep standing
at work or take frequent breaks, and that's the stop,
drop and flop.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I go. I love the branding. What's the stop, drop
and flop?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So it's exactly what it sounds like. After you send
an email or finish a task, you stop what you're doing,
let your shoulders drop, flop, your hands down by your side,
and give yourself a little bit of a stretch break.
But actually, let's talk a little bit more about sitting,
because we all know we do this a lot, or
many of us do this a lot as we're working.
So let's talk about how to best sit for optimal help.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah, I'm guessing sitting cross legged on stools and chairs
with my laptop on my lap probably isn't the best way. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I actually don't see anybody advocating for that, and I'm
guilty of it as well. I mean, the bottom line
is that chairs are complicated. So I was looking at
self dot com. They interviewed a board certified physical therapist
and an orthopedic specialist about this very topic. And there
are just a lot of components here, but mostly you
want a firm, flat cushion chair, good Lombard support, Like
(18:42):
a lot of really nice cushiony chairs have that seat
tilted upward in the front, and that actually puts stress
on your spine and tilts your pelvis backwards, which isn't
that kind.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Of like how we all drive. I guess that's bad
for long periods of time.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah, it's straining the wrong parts. Like basically, you want
to be sitting upright with a straight back, so not
leaning forwards or backwards, because tilting either way puts pressure
on your shoulders and on your neck. And according to
this same piece, you also want to scoot your bottom
all the way to the back of the chair, because,
as the article says, otherwise you will be sitting on
(19:18):
your sacram and stressing your back.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So how do you know if you're sitting right?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, basically, if you're upright, your feet are on the floor,
your hips are square, and you're not tilting forward, then
you're doing it.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Right, which sounds like sticking a perfect landing and gymnastics
or something. It feels like exactly chair setting should be
its own sport. But I feel like we've been chatting
for a bit and I am overdue for my stop,
drop and flop, which I do all the time now,
So why don't we take a two minute break and
we'll be back with more part Time Genius after these commercials.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Welcome back to Part Time Genius, where we're discussing the
very best ways to work. Now that you're all stretched
and relaxed, you've taken a twenty second micro nap, what
do you want to talk about?
Speaker 1 (20:13):
You know, I'm feeling so refresh and not diabetically right now,
So that's great. But as we were researching this episode,
I was looking up ergonomic keyboards and I found the
Stranger's keyboard. It is a vertical keyboard and it's supposed
to eliminate any strain on your wrist.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And how does that work exactly? I'm looking at it now.
This is wild.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, So for everyone listening, Basically, the image I'm showing
will is it's like if you took a keyboard cut
in half and then flip the sides up like a drawbridge,
so the keys are kind of facing out on either
side of your monitor. The idea is that if your
arms are straight out in front of you, the way
you slow dance in sixth grade, or at least the
way I slow dance in sixth grade, h and you're
(20:55):
typing vertically, reduces that strain. It's almost like you're shaking
hands with the keyboard.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And that's supposed to help.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I guess because your hands aren't resting on a hard surface,
you're you're less likely to get that restrain. And also
the vertical keyboard has these cushions or padding to rest
the heel of your hand, so it should be more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I don't know why the halves of the keyboard have
to be so far apart. Just look at this picture.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I guess if they were closer, you'd look like mister
Burns twiddling his fingers.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
But as you type, which seems to me the goal.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I love this futuristic kind of stuff, Like as a kid,
other than on the jetsons, I could never imagined people
typing books on treadmills or like taking naps and giant
eggs at work. And it'll be so fun to see
how work changes in like the next twenty or thirty years.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Oh definitely, Like they're already projections of keypads instead of
real keyboard so you can just type in the air,
and people working from self driving cars with Wi Fi
Like it feels commonplace now, but this would blow the
minds of people thirty or forty years ago.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, so I know you have some tips on how
to increase productvity, not in a tailorism way, more in
how to get things down way. But before we go
to that, why don't we talk about two very different
ergonomic chairs. So the first one I want to talk
about is for pilots, and it comes from a paper
from a journal called Science, Technology, and Human Values, but
(22:17):
it's about military cockpit design. So basically, in World War Two,
ergonomics really started becoming a discipline and it was important
to the armed forces, especially because to operate this like
machinery correctly and safely, and also with some regularity. You
kind of need to build things like tanks and planes
and things to human specifications, So the term human engineering
(22:39):
comes about. And the engineers were really smart about this.
To make sure people could easily operate leg and hand
controls and see all the gauges and displays, they came
up with five critical drivers. They looked at the height
of someone sitting, they looked at functional arm reach, leg length,
buttock to knee length, and weight, and they basically designed
(23:00):
a cockpit that could both safely be operated from and
that could safely eject you if you were taller than
five percent of the male population. So the idea was
that basically everyone from the fifth percentile all the way
through the ninety fifth percentile of men in the country
could operate these machines pretty effectively. And it's kind of
a landmark in ergonomic innovation. Here you've got this beautiful
(23:23):
new plane where the dials and gages and buttons and
steering wheel are all perfectly within reach for most of
the population, except.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I mean, what about the women here?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Exactly? They designed this for men above a certain height,
but at thirty four inches sitting height, which is what
they were using. That excluded close to seventy percent of
the female population because according to the paper, only approximately
the sixty fifth through ninety fifth percentile female could operate
the machinery. So weirdly, mass producer ergonomics have this greater
(23:54):
implication on society.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Which I guess isn't that surprising, Like if you think
about the right handed scissors, that's excluding ten percent of
the population right there.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, But it's even worse than that because since commercial
aviation basically copied all their design and engineering from the military,
there was what's called ergonomic bias spillover, and that goes
into commercial airlines. As the paper notes, quote, it is
not that women are not physically capable of flying these
particular aircraft. Rather, the technical artifact has functioned to delineate
(24:24):
the other.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
So what's the other ergonomic chair you wanted to talk about?
Speaker 1 (24:29):
So that one's kind of on the opposite end of
the spectrum, and it's the guy who built the first
modern ergonomic chair, a German Man named Frederick Wilhelm Dauphin,
And it's nineteen sixty eight and he's hired by a
British company as a consultant to look at how the
computer is going to impact office furniture, and he's supposed
to advise them on production. But the company, I'm not
(24:50):
sure whether it's funding or what, but they can't execute
his vision. So he and his wife really believe in
this idea of human centered design. So they do what
all great startups do. They start tinkering in their garage
back in Bavaria and they designed this very affordable chair
that has cutting edge ergonomics. It's a chair where you
can adjust the height and back and it offers incredible
(25:11):
posture support. He also creates the first synchronized mechanism for chairs,
which I had to look up what it meant. It's
when you tilt the back of your chair like twenty degrees,
the seapan of the chair doesn't go back the full
twenty degrees. It only moves like five or ten degrees,
so you still feel like you're reclining, but you don't
feel like you're going to tip back. And that's kind
of standard on all chairs now. But the big thing
(25:33):
for Dolphin and his wife, Elkie, who was his partner
in this, was to make sure that these things were
stylish and affordable, but also tailored to individual needs. So
the adjusting the height was really important to him from
the start. And that's kind of the opposite of the
cockpit chair, which was kind of one size fits all,
but really it was one size fits most men and
(25:54):
some women. Anyway, this chair just takes off and revolutionizes
office firm sure across Europe and Americas, and today they
are still producing about seventeen hundred office chairs every single day.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Wow, that's pretty amazing. All right, Well, we've talked about
how to sit, how to rest your eyes, when to stand,
when to flop, But why don't we go through a
few quick tips on getting stuff done?
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Great? You know I'm always looking for productivity tips.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I know you are, except I'm going to quiz you here.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Great. You know I'm always looking for quizzes.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So okay, good, good, good? All right? So hot or cold?
What is better for your office temperature?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I mean personally, like my dad's from Goa and India's
which is the beach. So you know I don't love
the cold, so I'd go with hot.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
All right. Well, you are one for one, being too
cold makes it harder to get things done. This comes
from fast company. But Cornell actually did a study in
an insurance office and when the temperature was low, like
sixty eight degrees, employees committed forty four percent more errors
than when the thermostat was set to seventy seven degrees.
But warm temps are actually better for office politics too.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
How's that?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So? The article goes on to say that there was
a study in science where psychologists found that when people
feel cold, they're quote more likely to perceive others as
less generous and caring, and that the same area of
the brain that lights up when we sense temperature, aka
the insular cortex, is also active when we feel trust
(27:26):
and empathy toward another person. So basically, when we experience warmth,
we experience trust.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Oh that's fascinating and such a good argument to my
wife why we have to keep the temperatures toasty in
our house whenever I'm working? So what's next?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
All right? Well, how about having someone on a screen
doing their work but kind of watching you aka the
new trend of body doubling.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
You know, I hate when people look over my shoulder
or watch me work, even when working in like Google docs,
when someone else is in the dock. It feels like
such an adjustment for me. H, I'll guess not helpful.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Well, it might not be helpful for you, but it's
actually a great hack for people with ADHD. Like this
is how an ADHD therapist named Billy Roberts explained it. Quote.
ADHD is a disorder of executive functioning, the part of
the brain that controls concentration, attention, activation of task, effort
on task, and self control, to name a few. Having
(28:23):
a person present during a less desirable task might increase
the joy surrounding that task, similar to listening to empowering
music while working, he says, and having another person there
also makes you accountable, so you're less likely to procrastinate. Apparently,
having a study buddy or this type of virtual body
doubling helps people with ADHD by increasing their dopamine levels,
(28:45):
And there are lots of websites and apps that help
you find a body double.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Body doubling sounds like such a sci fi term, you know,
but that is really interesting. Also, it makes me feel
a little guilty because both Lizzie and Henry are super
ADHD and when we're both working from home, Lizzie always
suggests working from the same room and I'm just like
you know, I'm good from over here, but it kind
of gives me more empathy as they're doing their work.
(29:10):
What else you got?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
All right? Last one afternoon coffees? What do you think?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Ah, this is tough. I could see an argument either way,
but maybe skip them.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah. The latest research, and this is coming from psychology today,
is that afternoon coffee confuses the brain, tricking your body
into thinking it has more energy than it does. As
the article points out, basically, it's pushing your body into
overdrive and taxing its resources, which is what makes you crash.
And the dependence throws off your biorrhythms. Like this is
(29:41):
whole domino effect where you get worse sleep, which curbs
your ability to de stress and causes inflammation.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
I love the idea that coffee throws off your bio rhythms,
but like sitting for ten minutes, standing for five, and
closing your eyes every twenty minutes is actually better for
your health. Yep, I do really want to be healthier,
So I'm sure this will all be in my head
for a week, but I'm guessing I will do none
of these things except raise the thermostat in my house.
But you know, what will definitely make me feel better.
(30:12):
How about a little.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Fact off, let's do it all right, So bosses should
appreciate their workers working from home, but you know who
doesn't cats. According to an article on Mental Floss, cats
are creatures of habit so they like set patterns. So
(30:34):
when people started working from home during the pandemic and
no one had really run this by the cats, their
routines got disrupted. Also, the article points out that they
pick up on the emotions and vibes, so chaos from
kids who had been at school, or you being allowed
on a zoom or whatever it might have been, that
was a change that also affects them. But eventually they
(30:56):
will come around to the new routine. But the most
interesting thing to me about the article was that it
advises when you go back to the office, you don't
want to deeply upset your cat, So to help them
adjust to this new routine, you should wake up at
the time you're planning to go in and start leaving
the house for longer periods of time so they can
adjust to the new routine.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
It's funny, it sounds more like you're trying to please
a roommate than a pet, so here's another quick one
that happens to evolve dogs. Do you know that workers
comp can apply to work from home injuries? In twenty eleven,
and Oregon court ruled that an interior designer was eligible
for workers comp after she tripped on her dog while
(31:38):
moving fabric samples to her garage.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
It is insane, that's wild, all right. Well, I think
a lot of us have heard of the Pomodoro technique.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah, that's what where you use a timer to focus
on a task for like twenty five minutes at a time,
and you take little breaks after each one of those sets. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I mean it was already kind of a thing, and
then it got more popular during lockdown. But I didn't
realize it was created by a college kid in the
nineteen eighties. So apparently the student Francesco Cirillo, who was
having a hard time focusing, so he kind of challenged
himself to study or work for ten minutes at a time,
and he found one of those vintage tomato shaped timers
you can see in kitchens, aka the pomodoro, and he
(32:19):
formed this technique. The other thing I didn't realize is
that even though the technique is super simple, he actually
kept building out different parts and suggestions for the method,
and he wrote this one hundred and thirty page book
about it, which led him to this long career as
an efficiency consultant for everyone from software engineers to F
one teams.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
That's pretty amazing. So I am trying to keep all
of mine quick today. So here's another snappy one. Do
you know that slack is actually an acronym? It stands
for a searchable log of all conversation and knowledge?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Wait? Is that real? Did you just make that up?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
But no, it's true.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I had no idea. Well, there's a lot of talk
about napping being good for you and how it benefits
everyone from pilots to astronauts to creatives, but apparently napping
was particularly popularized by the early Romans, who loved a
sexta aura, meaning a sleep in the sixth hour of
a waking day, which became known as the siesta.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Oh, I love siesta so much in India. The fact
that you like nap and have this quiet break after
a lunch and then wake up and have tea and snacks.
It's like my body is built for that. I'm going
to go slightly longer on this one. But there are
a number of studies on laughter in the office place,
and apparently people who laughed at a comedy clip and
(33:37):
then were asked to do math problems in a lab,
we're ten percent more productive than those who didn't, which,
you know, I thought was interesting. But the other thing
I thought was fascinating is that people who crack successful
jokes are better perceived. So, according to a Harvard Business
School professor Alison Woodbrooks, presenters who make successful jokes are
(33:58):
quote perceived as more are competent, more confident, and hire
in status.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I like that you said successful jokes, not just not
just any joke.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah. According to the study, it's more sweet jokes that
are confidently presented versus you know, Michael Scott type jokes
that are inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Mm hmm that actually I could see that. That makes sense.
All right, Well, here's one that's kind of fun to
end on, at least for me. So Amtrak's quiet Car
has a huge following of loyal travelers and people who
swear by how much they can get done on it.
But one thing I didn't realize is that it was
actually an idea that came about from commuters. In an
interview in Fortune, the company's former chief marketing officer explained
(34:38):
how basically cell phone chatter was ubiquitous on trains, and
this group of regular commuters begged the conductor to set
aside a noise free zone, and as soon as he did,
the idea took off, and Amtrak expanded the Quiet Car
to its entire fleet. But if you look up Amtrak's
Quiet Car online, you can find that people have written
odes and poetry to it. They're fanatical about it, And
(35:01):
so I thought it'd end with this quote from a
Yahoo Travel story in praise of the Quiet Car. Here's
how it reads. As a proud member of the Quiet
Car Nation, I will admit that we may be over
zealous in our efforts to preserve, protect, and defend it,
but that's for good reason. In this hyper connected world,
the Quiet car is one of the few places we
have left where we are out of reach of our
(35:22):
busy home, social, and work lives. Here we can sit
with like minded people, enjoying our silent utopia and just
be so. Let us celebrate the Quiet Car, the last
bastion of civilized travel. Let us cherish it, let us
protect it, let us sing its praises. Just not too loudly.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Oh I like that, and I feel like it needs
like patriotic music behind it as you give that speech.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I don't know how I can't give this to you.
So I'm going to silently hand over this week's trophy.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
I love it. I felt good about ending on that one.
All right. Well, that's it for this week's Part Time Genius.
Now remember, if you like our please rate it review.
It makes us so happy to know you people are listening. Also,
we love hearing from you. But more importantly, our moms
love hearing from you, and they have loved so many
of the notes that have come in recently. So write
to us at PT Genius Moms at gmail dot com.
(36:17):
Our moms always passed these amazing messages along from Dylan, Mango,
Mary and me. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Part Time Genius is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio.
This show is hosted by Will Pearson and me Mongshatikler
and research by our good pal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's
episode was engineered and produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan
with support from Tyler Klang. The show is executive produced
for iHeart by Katrina Norvell and Ali Perry, with social
(36:59):
media support from Sasha Gay Trustee Dara Potts and Viney Shoory.
For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
You're listening to Part Time Genius, a production of Kaleidoscope,
and iHeartRadio. Guess what Will?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
What's that? Mango?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
So I had a big writing assignment last week, and
I was not nearly as productive as I should have been.
I procrastinated, I got distracted, and I kind of pushed
off the assignment for way too long.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I like that you're leaving out one key fact that
you were actually supposed to be on vacation last week.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I know, but I'd set aside a few hours so
that I could keep some projects on track. And then
I missed my deadline. So I started doing what I
always do when i'm behind. I looked up tricks for
how to work better, and I stumbled into this old
chestnut about how Victor Hugo used to make sure he
didn't procrastinate. Basically, whenever he got writer's block, he'd have
(00:53):
his servant take all his clothes away and leave him
with only a pen and paper, so we had nothing
to do but write in the nude, which I guess
is how he hit all his deadlines.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
And also sounds a little bit extreme if you ask me.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, But one thing I've been wondering about is whether
it was the fact that he was stuck in his
house without clothes that made him write, or whether it
was actually being nude that put him in the mood
to do the writing and inspired him. Like Hemingway wrote
Nude at a standing desk. Ben Franklin famously took airbats
where you'd wake up early, you know, sit by a
drafty window and feel invigorated to journal before going back
(01:30):
to bed for sort of a wonderful sleep. Churchill Agatha
Christie both worked from the back. So there are a
lot of these folks.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Wow. But for all our listeners, just to know you
you are not only working right now, but you are
fully closed as we record. So I'm thankful for that.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah. Well, you know, I'm too Victorian to work in
the nude, even in my own house. But hearing those
facts made me wonder what are the best ways to work?
So that's what this episode is all about. Let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm
Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good
friend Mangesh hot Ticketter and sitting behind that big booth
manning the mixing board, doing it like none other and
actually today he's truly doing it like none other. I
think he's on a Nordic track. Is that what that is?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah? I guess some people work from standing desks and
some people use treadmill dust, but Dylan has decided he's
most productive when he's cross country skiings.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know what, there's sometimes I
question what Dylan's doing, but this actually feels on brand
for him. It seems to makes sense for him. But anyway, mego.
You and our researcher Mary Phillip Sandy came up with
the topic for this week's episode, and it's all about
what are the best ways to work? So let's talk
about that.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, and today's episode is kind of a jumble of things.
Mary and I were brainstorming big questions we could answer
for the show, and she was like, there are so
many little things I don't know, Like I sit all
day and I don't know what's the best way to sit.
And of course, you know, at the time, I was
crossed like it on my bed, and you know, I
had a cramped neck from hunching forward. So of course
(03:24):
that's one of the things I wanted to know. But
we thought with so many people working from home now,
it might be helpful to hear about everything from some
productivity tips to how to sit to how far you
need to place your laptop screen from your Nordic track
for ultimate comfort.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Glad we're going to be giving that tip. So all right,
let's figure out where where do we want to start
here today?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
How about with ergonomics, which is such a clunky and
weird word. But what do you think when you hear
the word ergonomics.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
You know, as soon as you said it, I kind
of pictured those wavy keyboards that people started using in nineties,
or an office full of yoga ball chairs, like we
saw so many of these, how quickly these took over
actually our office for a while back in Mental Fluss.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It was like overnight. It was like an epidemic, Like
suddenly everyone was either at a standing desk or a
yoga ball and I just kept sitting at a normal
desk with a swivel chair, just like a rube.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
But it's embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I was thinking about those giant mouse rollerballs that you know,
I don't even know if you remember these, but they
were like red arcade ball like controllers almost, and they'd
sit in the middle of something that kind of looked
like a tiny Tesla truck. But I was also thinking
about like the first time I'd seen it in my lifetime.
I remember that my dad brought home this Swedish ergonomic
(04:41):
chair for our computer in the eighties. It had no
back and you kind of kneel into it, and every
single kid who came to my house commented on how
weird it was. But the whole idea was it was
supposed to make you sit straight and be better for
your posture. So, you know, obviously ergonomics has been a
thing in our lifetime, but I actually had no idea
how old the discipline is.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
And because I have no idea, I think you're baiting
me into asking you this question. But how old are
we talking about here?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah? I like how you picked off on my queue there.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, thank you man. We really work well together.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Mary pulled this research for me from the Berkeley School
of Public Health website, and apparently ergonomics states back to
four hundred BCE, all the way back to the ancient Greeks,
so just a little before the nineteen eighties when my
dad was Swedish kneeling at his tandy or whatever. But
According to the site quote, archaeologists have found drawings and
(05:34):
paintings of chairs with contrad backs and hand tools that
resemble designs we still use today, which you know is
really remarkable. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I mean, it's funny to think about, like a stone
bench with an indentation for your butt to be considered ergonomics,
but I guess it makes sense, right, Like if you're
gonna sit comfortably, it makes sense to kind of contour
it more to your body.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, And apparently Hippocrates got into the action as well.
He wrote about how to arrange surgeons to for optimal
workflow during surgery. So really we've been thinking about how
best to do our work for a very long time,
but for our stories purposes. The real study of work
begins in the seventeenth century, and this is when an
Italian doctor named Bernardino Ramazzini, which you know is a
(06:16):
great name. For the first time, perhaps he begins to
notice patterns that certain types of work brings certain pains, right,
and he begins looking at why workers are suffering from
various ailments. He starts by visiting their workplaces, observing how
they work, and then he does all these interviews to
understand how their work is affecting their bodies, and this
(06:40):
is in seventeen hundred. He publishes his observations in a
book called The Diseases of the Workers.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So if this was seventeen hundred, like, what type of
work is he studying here?
Speaker 1 (06:50):
He studies over one hundred professions and it's everything from
bakers and miller's to fishermen, to stonecutters to glassmakers. He's
also in including athletes and singers. It is surprisingly comprehensive,
and he starts to notice how various violent motions or
irregular motions, and also waits that these workers are carrying
(07:12):
daily how that's taking a toll across various classes of workers.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
So would he be considered like the father of ergonomics.
Then he's more considered the father of occupational medicine. And
his contribution is mostly in linking repetitive work to pains
and disorders, but it is interesting he also notes the
mental stresses on people who are doing things like accounting work.
These people have to get the numbers right to keep
their jobs, and so there's immense pressure on them. And
(07:39):
he's also looking at things like environmental conditions, so he
notices the breathing difficulties that millers get and the asthma
that they get from all these like powders and things
in the air. And he's quoted as saying it's far
better to prevent than to cure. So he's really.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Ahead of his time.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, no kidding. But to your question.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
About ergonomics, the word ergonomics gets coin in the eighteen
fifties and this is by a Polish author and it
kind of means the science of work or laws of work,
and it isn't really until about one hundred years later
that it takes on its current meaning of fitting a
job to a person or a body. But before we
get into that, I want to talk briefly about the
concept of business management, which arose in the late eighteen hundreds,
(08:20):
and it is really fascinating to me. So this is
during the Industrial Revolution, or at least impacted by it,
when industrialization becomes synonymous with work. And just stay with
me here because it feels like a tangent, but it's not.
Industrials were interested in the idea of efficiency, right, but
it wasn't like they wanted to protect workers from these
(08:42):
repetitive stress injuries. As businessmen, their goal was really to
extract as much value as possible from workers and kind
of treating their bodies like machines, making the most of
their bodies. And one consultant who helps figure out how
to do this is a guy named Frederick W. Taylor,
who basically believed that workers can always be made to
produce more and less time with less motion.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Wow, always be made to So he's kind of a
nightmare boss.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah. His work is basically going to take any remaining
power out of the worker's hands and place it in
the hands of the bosses. At the time, they call
it quote scientific management, right, that's the term for it,
and later they refer to this practice as tailorism. But basically,
these efficiency engineers, as they were called, we're trying to
figure out the one best way to do every task
the quickest and the way they studied this is really incredible.
(09:31):
This comes from an article in Jacobin magazine and goes
quote it's hard to overstate how far efficiency engineers went
to measure and survey of workers' bodies. They used stopwatches,
photographed and film workers, and tied light bulbs to workers
fingers in order to trace hand movements across long exposure photographs.
One engineer, Frank Gilbert, disaggregated each finger, shoulder, and foot,
(09:56):
plotting individual movements in units in the thousandth of a minute.
So yeah, I mean, the observation is intense, and they're
collecting amen's data, and they are analyzing every part of
every single mechanical task.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
That is wild. And so what do they do with
all this data?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Basically, they're getting paid to make a company more profitable, right,
So they walk the employees through these studies and point
out their inefficiencies and show them how to work faster. Basically,
they fire anyone who refuses or can't keep up. But
because these are upper class men, they're also trying to
temp down any class conflicts or resentments that could arise,
and they're trying to ease this transition into getting people
(10:36):
to work harder. So they push for pay bonuses based
on worker efficiency, and workers are incentivized to work faster,
and that way the workers are at least a little
happier and managers get more product, which they see as
a win win, I.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Mean, I guess so. But obviously these bonuses aren't so
big that anybody's getting rich here, right, The workers can do.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
A little better, but their bodies are going to take
a toll for it. And there's an interesting side note here,
a bunch of the more skilled workers start to push back.
As the Jacobin article points out, quote the diversion experiences
of machinists and shovelers was pretty illustrative. So the shovelers
were less organized and easier to replace, and they were
really pushed to the limit by the efficiency experts. One
(11:18):
study from the time actually showed that they ended up
heaving two hundred and seventy percent more tonnage than before
the consultants arrived. Wow, so they're working their tails off.
It is brutal and its backbreaking work. And meanwhile, the
machinists actually have some leverage. They kind of hold their
trade secrets close to them and they unionize their response
(11:38):
and this ends up protecting them because when managers try
to control them, they act collectively and can better dictate terms. Anyway,
this all leads back to ergonomics.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I'm glad you say that, because I was just about
to ask that.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah. So, as tailorism and this mechanization of the human
body was taking place, workers want to avoid being fit
leagued all the time, and they want to protect their health.
So in the nineteen twenties, researchers start making the case
for more humane work and not burning out your workforce.
There's this conference in Russia, but this movement takes off
(12:12):
all over and you know, this more humane work is
called ergology, which later becomes ergonomics, which you know later
translates into offices that are wall to wall with yoga
ball chairs.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Finally we got there. That was that was worth it though, Manga.
That was actually very interesting, and I know there's more
story to get to, but I also know we're talking
about the best ways to work, and one thing that
people definitely want to know is some definitive answer on
how to sit and not destroy their bodies because you
hear so much about the damage that it does to
sit for so long.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, so I'm glad you took this on because I'm
very curious about this. So tell me.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Well, one of the first places to go to if
you thinking about anything health related is the Mayo Clinic.
So I decided to go to the website and look
at the guidelines there. Now, before you start working, you'll
want to pull out a tape measure and possibly a protractor.
If you don't know what a right angle is, or
if you've got those ready, I'll continue here. One your
knees should be about level with the hips when you
(13:10):
are seated, with your thighs parallel to the floor, So
clearly sitting on a high stool or a bean bag
is not ideal. Two your hands should be at or
below elbow level with the wrist straight. Three. If your
desk has a hard edge, you should pad the edge
to protect your wrist from the contact stress. So this
includes laptops, Like if you're resting your wrist on a
(13:32):
hard laptop, you'll want padding there. And four, if you're
using a monitor, that should be no closer to you
than twenty inches and no further away than forty inches,
and you'll want the top of the screen to be
at or slightly below eye level. Now I have to admit,
when I read many of these things, I violated almost
every single one of them.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
I also have no idea how far my computer screen
is for me any time.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, on that at air inches. I don't know about you.
Like on a table, I can do it, but air
inches is not my specialty.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I also feel like I assume it must be like
twenty to forty inches from my face at all times,
but except when I don't have my glasses on and
then it's pressed up against my face. Is that distance
for your eyesight or is it for neck I posture reasons?
Why is that distance so important? It actually prevents both
eyestrain and next strain. Though, if you're looking to protect
(14:26):
your eyes, the other thing you're supposed to do is
follow the twenty twenty twenty rules. So this is where
every twenty minutes you're supposed to take a twenty second
break to look at an object twenty feet away. This
rule was developed by an optometrist from California name Jeffrey Anshell,
and this was a way to help people avoid headaches
and eyestrain. But you can also close your eyes for
(14:47):
twenty seconds and that has a similar kind of effect.
Twenty seconds doesn't feel like long enough, Like, yeah, that's
almost teasing my brain into thinking it's taking a nap.
We've covered angle you should say at and how far
your screen should be from your face, But what about
the whole like sitting standing treadmill desk argument, Like what's
the optimal way to work on that front?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
You know, the ideal seems to be alternating between sitting
and standing, because sitting for too long or being sedentary
increases your risk for a whole host of different diseases.
I mean everything from Parkinson's two strokes, to cancers, two
diabetes to Alzheimer's. Like, it's really as interesting looking at
the list and terrifying at this list of you know,
sort of tied back to this.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
It's so scary like that sitting for long periods can
increase your chances of getting six. So how much do
I have to alternate for this?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
You'll need to turn to the International Ergonomics and Human
Factors Association, which I don't think you knew a whole
lot about before this episode, and they recommend sitting for
ten minutes, then standing up for five, and then repeating
that throughout the day. So not too bad.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
First of all, please don't make any assumptions, because that
is my homepage. I could.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't have assumed.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
But I also don't know how you're supposed to remember
to do that like all the time. Like I feel
like the only way I could remember is if my
desk automatically lifted and lowered like every five and ten minutes.
It just feels kind of impractical. Plus you've got to
close your eyes or look twenty feet away every twenty minutes,
so like none of those numbers really line up.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's uh, it's interesting. I mean, if
you can't pull off the ten minutes sitting, five minutes
standing routine, there's an alternative that can help your workflow.
You can work for twenty minutes, take a two minute
active break. That's like second best option here. But when
you do that, you can also close your eyes for
the first twenty seconds or just naturally look around. But
(16:40):
hopefully you're not taking this active break and closing your
eyes for the first twenty seconds, because that seems dangerous
as well.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I also like that you've ranked these like, I guess
I've got a whole list, right, I'm gonna go with
option too, But is there a third place? The truth is, like,
if you're writing or researching, I feel like you get
in a flow and then you just forget time.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, I mean, it actually would be good to make
time for that two minute break, just because it's helpful
for anyone with a history of diabetes in the family.
And I know you have some in the family as well,
and according to the site, getting up more frequently can
quote lower your post prandial glucose and insulin levels, which
means that avoiding sitting for long periods of time can
(17:21):
actually be an effective way of reducing the risk of
type two diabetes.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
That's amazing and I wonder you know, as people start
adapting more to this information, if it's like during the SATs,
we'll see kids just standing up in the middle of
a section and running in place to keep their diabetes away.
It kind of makes sense.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Well, there's one other suggestion if you can't keep standing
at work or take frequent breaks, and that's the stop,
drop and flop.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I go. I love the branding. What's the stop, drop
and flop?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So it's exactly what it sounds like. After you send
an email or finish a task, you stop what you're doing,
let your shoulders drop, flop, your hands down by your side,
and give yourself a little bit of a stretch break.
But actually, let's talk a little bit more about sitting,
because we all know we do this a lot, or
many of us do this a lot as we're working.
So let's talk about how to best sit for optimal help.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah, I'm guessing sitting cross legged on stools and chairs
with my laptop on my lap probably isn't the best way. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I actually don't see anybody advocating for that, and I'm
guilty of it as well. I mean, the bottom line
is that chairs are complicated. So I was looking at
self dot com. They interviewed a board certified physical therapist
and an orthopedic specialist about this very topic. And there
are just a lot of components here, but mostly you
want a firm, flat cushion chair, good Lombard support, Like
(18:42):
a lot of really nice cushiony chairs have that seat
tilted upward in the front, and that actually puts stress
on your spine and tilts your pelvis backwards, which isn't
that kind.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Of like how we all drive. I guess that's bad
for long periods of time.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah, it's straining the wrong parts. Like basically, you want
to be sitting upright with a straight back, so not
leaning forwards or backwards, because tilting either way puts pressure
on your shoulders and on your neck. And according to
this same piece, you also want to scoot your bottom
all the way to the back of the chair, because,
as the article says, otherwise you will be sitting on
(19:18):
your sacram and stressing your back.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So how do you know if you're sitting right?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, basically, if you're upright, your feet are on the floor,
your hips are square, and you're not tilting forward, then
you're doing it.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Right, which sounds like sticking a perfect landing and gymnastics
or something. It feels like exactly chair setting should be
its own sport. But I feel like we've been chatting
for a bit and I am overdue for my stop,
drop and flop, which I do all the time now,
So why don't we take a two minute break and
we'll be back with more part Time Genius after these commercials.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Welcome back to Part Time Genius, where we're discussing the
very best ways to work. Now that you're all stretched
and relaxed, you've taken a twenty second micro nap, what
do you want to talk about?
Speaker 1 (20:13):
You know, I'm feeling so refresh and not diabetically right now,
So that's great. But as we were researching this episode,
I was looking up ergonomic keyboards and I found the
Stranger's keyboard. It is a vertical keyboard and it's supposed
to eliminate any strain on your wrist.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And how does that work exactly? I'm looking at it now.
This is wild.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, So for everyone listening, Basically, the image I'm showing
will is it's like if you took a keyboard cut
in half and then flip the sides up like a drawbridge,
so the keys are kind of facing out on either
side of your monitor. The idea is that if your
arms are straight out in front of you, the way
you slow dance in sixth grade, or at least the
way I slow dance in sixth grade, h and you're
(20:55):
typing vertically, reduces that strain. It's almost like you're shaking
hands with the keyboard.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And that's supposed to help.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I guess because your hands aren't resting on a hard surface,
you're you're less likely to get that restrain. And also
the vertical keyboard has these cushions or padding to rest
the heel of your hand, so it should be more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I don't know why the halves of the keyboard have
to be so far apart. Just look at this picture.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I guess if they were closer, you'd look like mister
Burns twiddling his fingers.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
But as you type, which seems to me the goal.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I love this futuristic kind of stuff, Like as a kid,
other than on the jetsons, I could never imagined people
typing books on treadmills or like taking naps and giant
eggs at work. And it'll be so fun to see
how work changes in like the next twenty or thirty years.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Oh definitely, Like they're already projections of keypads instead of
real keyboard so you can just type in the air,
and people working from self driving cars with Wi Fi
Like it feels commonplace now, but this would blow the
minds of people thirty or forty years ago.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, so I know you have some tips on how
to increase productvity, not in a tailorism way, more in
how to get things down way. But before we go
to that, why don't we talk about two very different
ergonomic chairs. So the first one I want to talk
about is for pilots, and it comes from a paper
from a journal called Science, Technology, and Human Values, but
(22:17):
it's about military cockpit design. So basically, in World War Two,
ergonomics really started becoming a discipline and it was important
to the armed forces, especially because to operate this like
machinery correctly and safely, and also with some regularity. You
kind of need to build things like tanks and planes
and things to human specifications, So the term human engineering
(22:39):
comes about. And the engineers were really smart about this.
To make sure people could easily operate leg and hand
controls and see all the gauges and displays, they came
up with five critical drivers. They looked at the height
of someone sitting, they looked at functional arm reach, leg length,
buttock to knee length, and weight, and they basically designed
(23:00):
a cockpit that could both safely be operated from and
that could safely eject you if you were taller than
five percent of the male population. So the idea was
that basically everyone from the fifth percentile all the way
through the ninety fifth percentile of men in the country
could operate these machines pretty effectively. And it's kind of
a landmark in ergonomic innovation. Here you've got this beautiful
(23:23):
new plane where the dials and gages and buttons and
steering wheel are all perfectly within reach for most of
the population, except.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I mean, what about the women here?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Exactly? They designed this for men above a certain height,
but at thirty four inches sitting height, which is what
they were using. That excluded close to seventy percent of
the female population because according to the paper, only approximately
the sixty fifth through ninety fifth percentile female could operate
the machinery. So weirdly, mass producer ergonomics have this greater
(23:54):
implication on society.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Which I guess isn't that surprising, Like if you think
about the right handed scissors, that's excluding ten percent of
the population right there.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, But it's even worse than that because since commercial
aviation basically copied all their design and engineering from the military,
there was what's called ergonomic bias spillover, and that goes
into commercial airlines. As the paper notes, quote, it is
not that women are not physically capable of flying these
particular aircraft. Rather, the technical artifact has functioned to delineate
(24:24):
the other.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
So what's the other ergonomic chair you wanted to talk about?
Speaker 1 (24:29):
So that one's kind of on the opposite end of
the spectrum, and it's the guy who built the first
modern ergonomic chair, a German Man named Frederick Wilhelm Dauphin,
And it's nineteen sixty eight and he's hired by a
British company as a consultant to look at how the
computer is going to impact office furniture, and he's supposed
to advise them on production. But the company, I'm not
(24:50):
sure whether it's funding or what, but they can't execute
his vision. So he and his wife really believe in
this idea of human centered design. So they do what
all great startups do. They start tinkering in their garage
back in Bavaria and they designed this very affordable chair
that has cutting edge ergonomics. It's a chair where you
can adjust the height and back and it offers incredible
(25:11):
posture support. He also creates the first synchronized mechanism for chairs,
which I had to look up what it meant. It's
when you tilt the back of your chair like twenty degrees,
the seapan of the chair doesn't go back the full
twenty degrees. It only moves like five or ten degrees,
so you still feel like you're reclining, but you don't
feel like you're going to tip back. And that's kind
of standard on all chairs now. But the big thing
(25:33):
for Dolphin and his wife, Elkie, who was his partner
in this, was to make sure that these things were
stylish and affordable, but also tailored to individual needs. So
the adjusting the height was really important to him from
the start. And that's kind of the opposite of the
cockpit chair, which was kind of one size fits all,
but really it was one size fits most men and
(25:54):
some women. Anyway, this chair just takes off and revolutionizes
office firm sure across Europe and Americas, and today they
are still producing about seventeen hundred office chairs every single day.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Wow, that's pretty amazing. All right, Well, we've talked about
how to sit, how to rest your eyes, when to stand,
when to flop, But why don't we go through a
few quick tips on getting stuff done?
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Great? You know I'm always looking for productivity tips.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I know you are, except I'm going to quiz you here.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Great. You know I'm always looking for quizzes.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So okay, good, good, good? All right? So hot or cold?
What is better for your office temperature?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I mean personally, like my dad's from Goa and India's
which is the beach. So you know I don't love
the cold, so I'd go with hot.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
All right. Well, you are one for one, being too
cold makes it harder to get things done. This comes
from fast company. But Cornell actually did a study in
an insurance office and when the temperature was low, like
sixty eight degrees, employees committed forty four percent more errors
than when the thermostat was set to seventy seven degrees.
But warm temps are actually better for office politics too.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
How's that?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So? The article goes on to say that there was
a study in science where psychologists found that when people
feel cold, they're quote more likely to perceive others as
less generous and caring, and that the same area of
the brain that lights up when we sense temperature, aka
the insular cortex, is also active when we feel trust
(27:26):
and empathy toward another person. So basically, when we experience warmth,
we experience trust.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Oh that's fascinating and such a good argument to my
wife why we have to keep the temperatures toasty in
our house whenever I'm working? So what's next?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
All right? Well, how about having someone on a screen
doing their work but kind of watching you aka the
new trend of body doubling.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
You know, I hate when people look over my shoulder
or watch me work, even when working in like Google docs,
when someone else is in the dock. It feels like
such an adjustment for me. H, I'll guess not helpful.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Well, it might not be helpful for you, but it's
actually a great hack for people with ADHD. Like this
is how an ADHD therapist named Billy Roberts explained it. Quote.
ADHD is a disorder of executive functioning, the part of
the brain that controls concentration, attention, activation of task, effort
on task, and self control, to name a few. Having
(28:23):
a person present during a less desirable task might increase
the joy surrounding that task, similar to listening to empowering
music while working, he says, and having another person there
also makes you accountable, so you're less likely to procrastinate. Apparently,
having a study buddy or this type of virtual body
doubling helps people with ADHD by increasing their dopamine levels,
(28:45):
And there are lots of websites and apps that help
you find a body double.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Body doubling sounds like such a sci fi term, you know,
but that is really interesting. Also, it makes me feel
a little guilty because both Lizzie and Henry are super
ADHD and when we're both working from home, Lizzie always
suggests working from the same room and I'm just like
you know, I'm good from over here, but it kind
of gives me more empathy as they're doing their work.
(29:10):
What else you got?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
All right? Last one afternoon coffees? What do you think?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Ah, this is tough. I could see an argument either way,
but maybe skip them.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah. The latest research, and this is coming from psychology today,
is that afternoon coffee confuses the brain, tricking your body
into thinking it has more energy than it does. As
the article points out, basically, it's pushing your body into
overdrive and taxing its resources, which is what makes you crash.
And the dependence throws off your biorrhythms. Like this is
(29:41):
whole domino effect where you get worse sleep, which curbs
your ability to de stress and causes inflammation.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
I love the idea that coffee throws off your bio rhythms,
but like sitting for ten minutes, standing for five, and
closing your eyes every twenty minutes is actually better for
your health. Yep, I do really want to be healthier,
So I'm sure this will all be in my head
for a week, but I'm guessing I will do none
of these things except raise the thermostat in my house.
But you know, what will definitely make me feel better.
(30:12):
How about a little.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Fact off, let's do it all right, So bosses should
appreciate their workers working from home, but you know who
doesn't cats. According to an article on Mental Floss, cats
are creatures of habit so they like set patterns. So
(30:34):
when people started working from home during the pandemic and
no one had really run this by the cats, their
routines got disrupted. Also, the article points out that they
pick up on the emotions and vibes, so chaos from
kids who had been at school, or you being allowed
on a zoom or whatever it might have been, that
was a change that also affects them. But eventually they
(30:56):
will come around to the new routine. But the most
interesting thing to me about the article was that it
advises when you go back to the office, you don't
want to deeply upset your cat, So to help them
adjust to this new routine, you should wake up at
the time you're planning to go in and start leaving
the house for longer periods of time so they can
adjust to the new routine.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
It's funny, it sounds more like you're trying to please
a roommate than a pet, so here's another quick one
that happens to evolve dogs. Do you know that workers
comp can apply to work from home injuries? In twenty eleven,
and Oregon court ruled that an interior designer was eligible
for workers comp after she tripped on her dog while
(31:38):
moving fabric samples to her garage.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
It is insane, that's wild, all right. Well, I think
a lot of us have heard of the Pomodoro technique.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah, that's what where you use a timer to focus
on a task for like twenty five minutes at a time,
and you take little breaks after each one of those sets. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I mean it was already kind of a thing, and
then it got more popular during lockdown. But I didn't
realize it was created by a college kid in the
nineteen eighties. So apparently the student Francesco Cirillo, who was
having a hard time focusing, so he kind of challenged
himself to study or work for ten minutes at a time,
and he found one of those vintage tomato shaped timers
you can see in kitchens, aka the pomodoro, and he
(32:19):
formed this technique. The other thing I didn't realize is
that even though the technique is super simple, he actually
kept building out different parts and suggestions for the method,
and he wrote this one hundred and thirty page book
about it, which led him to this long career as
an efficiency consultant for everyone from software engineers to F
one teams.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
That's pretty amazing. So I am trying to keep all
of mine quick today. So here's another snappy one. Do
you know that slack is actually an acronym? It stands
for a searchable log of all conversation and knowledge?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Wait? Is that real? Did you just make that up?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
But no, it's true.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I had no idea. Well, there's a lot of talk
about napping being good for you and how it benefits
everyone from pilots to astronauts to creatives, but apparently napping
was particularly popularized by the early Romans, who loved a
sexta aura, meaning a sleep in the sixth hour of
a waking day, which became known as the siesta.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Oh, I love siesta so much in India. The fact
that you like nap and have this quiet break after
a lunch and then wake up and have tea and snacks.
It's like my body is built for that. I'm going
to go slightly longer on this one. But there are
a number of studies on laughter in the office place,
and apparently people who laughed at a comedy clip and
(33:37):
then were asked to do math problems in a lab,
we're ten percent more productive than those who didn't, which,
you know, I thought was interesting. But the other thing
I thought was fascinating is that people who crack successful
jokes are better perceived. So, according to a Harvard Business
School professor Alison Woodbrooks, presenters who make successful jokes are
(33:58):
quote perceived as more are competent, more confident, and hire
in status.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I like that you said successful jokes, not just not
just any joke.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah. According to the study, it's more sweet jokes that
are confidently presented versus you know, Michael Scott type jokes
that are inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Mm hmm that actually I could see that. That makes sense.
All right, Well, here's one that's kind of fun to
end on, at least for me. So Amtrak's quiet Car
has a huge following of loyal travelers and people who
swear by how much they can get done on it.
But one thing I didn't realize is that it was
actually an idea that came about from commuters. In an
interview in Fortune, the company's former chief marketing officer explained
(34:38):
how basically cell phone chatter was ubiquitous on trains, and
this group of regular commuters begged the conductor to set
aside a noise free zone, and as soon as he did,
the idea took off, and Amtrak expanded the Quiet Car
to its entire fleet. But if you look up Amtrak's
Quiet Car online, you can find that people have written
odes and poetry to it. They're fanatical about it, And
(35:01):
so I thought it'd end with this quote from a
Yahoo Travel story in praise of the Quiet Car. Here's
how it reads. As a proud member of the Quiet
Car Nation, I will admit that we may be over
zealous in our efforts to preserve, protect, and defend it,
but that's for good reason. In this hyper connected world,
the Quiet car is one of the few places we
have left where we are out of reach of our
(35:22):
busy home, social, and work lives. Here we can sit
with like minded people, enjoying our silent utopia and just
be so. Let us celebrate the Quiet Car, the last
bastion of civilized travel. Let us cherish it, let us
protect it, let us sing its praises. Just not too loudly.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Oh I like that, and I feel like it needs
like patriotic music behind it as you give that speech.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I don't know how I can't give this to you.
So I'm going to silently hand over this week's trophy.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
I love it. I felt good about ending on that one.
All right. Well, that's it for this week's Part Time Genius.
Now remember, if you like our please rate it review.
It makes us so happy to know you people are listening. Also,
we love hearing from you. But more importantly, our moms
love hearing from you, and they have loved so many
of the notes that have come in recently. So write
to us at PT Genius Moms at gmail dot com.
(36:17):
Our moms always passed these amazing messages along from Dylan, Mango,
Mary and me. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Part Time Genius is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio.
This show is hosted by Will Pearson and me Mongshatikler
and research by our good pal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's
episode was engineered and produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan
with support from Tyler Klang. The show is executive produced
for iHeart by Katrina Norvell and Ali Perry, with social
(36:59):
media support from Sasha Gay Trustee Dara Potts and Viney Shoory.
For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Part-Time Genius News
Host
Will and Mango
Popular Podcasts
1. Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
2. Stuff You Missed in History Class
Join Holly and Tracy as they bring you the greatest and strangest Stuff You Missed In History Class in this podcast by iHeartRadio.
3. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.