Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Welcome back to point of origin. Today we pay homage
to coffees, African origins and roots from East Africa to
the East Bay. Up first with coffee entrepreneur Caba Conte
of Red Bay Coffee. He discusses his journey from pioneering
African American coffee roaster too in his own words, the
largest black owned coffee company in the world. And Burundi
(00:46):
Janine neon Ziema Aroian teaches us what makes Burundi an
ideal coffee supplier. And finally we chat with Doug Hewitt
of ninety one Coffee in Oakland, California, a nonprofit organization
providing job training for refugees. Today on point of origin,
it's black coffee that we you know, find ourselves, you know,
(01:25):
really situated in this especially coffee movement where you know,
things are really growing and a lot of awareness around
origins of coffee. And there was maybe ten fifteen years
ago the sort of so called third wave of coffee
really came to the forefront with companies like Stumptown and
Blue Bottle. On the walls of Red Bay Coffee HQ
(01:48):
in fruit Bale, California is a huge living sculpture of
Africa by way of hanging plants in the shape of
the continents. Outline in the background is the hum of
roasting sheens, embellished by the ambient buzz of a diverse
cross section of the Bay Area community. Red Bay has
never just been a quick stop for coffee and always
(02:11):
a hub for the neighborhood. Here Kaba is explaining coffee
and the way that it is most often talked about
within and around the industry, using the nomenclature of waves.
What I'm seeing American now is maybe a fourth wave
of coffee that's really addressing not just the quality of coffee,
(02:33):
but in addition to that, the movement around it, the
really the impact that we're having on the environment and
on various communities. And when you talk about this movement,
can you summarize what this sort of third and fourth
wave coffee movement is for people who might not be
(02:55):
aware with that version. The third wave coffee movement, you know,
really began, like I said, about fifteen years ago, and
it was around a couple of principles. It was around
roasting coffee to its sweet spot and not over roasting it,
really trying to roast a lot lighter than it had
(03:17):
historically been to really reveal more of the nuances of
of the coffee and and how it reflects the terror
of the origin where it was grown, the environment, um so,
and and really being a lot more transparent about the
origins where these you know, particular farms came from these microlots. Also,
(03:40):
the third wave had to do with in the cafes
kind of a certain aesthetic coffee. So that's a rough
summary of what sort of the third wave was. It was.
It was post Starbucks, which was you know, kind of
like a second wave if if, if you will, one
another thing that was not necessary part of the third wave,
(04:01):
but it was just how it was, which is it's uh,
you know, very wide elite, elitist space in terms of
these kind of fancy specialty coffee shops. So this this
next wave, you know, really just kind of taking form,
is just you seeing a lot more folks who are
reflecting some of these origin countries, whether it's you know,
(04:22):
folks from you know, the the teens community or African
Americans participating. But really the net is getting wider and
more people are starting to enter into this space. Actually,
two thousand eighteen was the first time that they just
gathered some data where it showed that African Americans are
the fastest growing consumers especialty coffee. You know, so and
(04:49):
coffee overall is sort of flatline in terms of growth,
but it's um so, there's that whole movement what we're
tapping into, right, some of the things you're not really
tapping into it. You kind of are the movement, though.
I feel like you're being kind of modest right now
because you're talking about this burgeoning group of black coffee drinkers.
(05:10):
I mean, I came in on the third wave, but
you know, like you you are the uh the black
coffee roaster in the States, right so uh yeah, yeah,
I was saving that for you. Yeah. That's my job
is to let people get the full context now for sure.
And that's why I want to talk to you, you know,
because it is you guys started in and you know
(05:34):
it's we're now five years in, guys are continuing to grow.
And I have in my time in Oakland very much
experienced the amount of enthusiasm and excitement, especially black and
brown folks in Oakland have felt around your brand and
the quality of the coffee that you are are selling.
But how did you as as a black man who
(05:57):
was an artist and entrepreneur, I mean, you had a
restaurant in Berkely, how did you find your way into
the coffee game? And once you landed there, how much
of your awareness self awareness as a black man in
the space has influenced the way that you've run and
grown Red Bay. Like a lot of people in the
(06:17):
coffee industry, didn't necessarily seek out to be in the
coffee industry, but UM kind of came in the back door,
so to speak. So that was new to me and
UM but UM just having impact, hiring, building the team, helping,
you know, support UM people. It was just really fascinating path.
(06:37):
So that's kind of how I got into it. Through
the arts, into the coffee. The coffee really took off.
Open a second coffee shop. Now I got two coffee shops.
It's time to chap into some of the relationships I've
had established around the world. Is A is a photojournalist,
UM traveling to many African and Central American and Caribbean
coffee origin countries. Uh Um. So I wanted to kind
(07:02):
of cut out the middleman and start sourcing my own coffee.
And so that was a whole you know, um experience
onto itself in terms of you know, just my path
on on on teaching myself on how to roast coffee
and kind of enter into that level of the game.
And it's a good point that you mentioned about these
(07:22):
countries of origin, because one of the weird things about coffee,
or maybe not that weird at all, is that most
of the countries that are growing and producing the coffee
are exactly the opposite of the countries who are importing
the coffee and consuming the coffee. So when you moved
into the idea of roasting and having a little bit
(07:45):
more of a stake in the supply chain, how much
was that on your mind when you made that decision. Uh, well,
it's something I was very aware of, you know, like
I mentioned in in these sort of third wave coffee shops,
you know, just the overall UH culture was very homogenous. Uh.
This is something that you know, my folks have adopted
(08:08):
and uh and fetishized, you know, especialty coffee, along with
a lot of other components of black culture. Coffee started
in Africa, Ethiopia to be specific. You know, when the
more I was learning about the history of coffee and
the origins of coffee, and it just seemed to go
against the grain of the popular misconception that coffee started
(08:29):
in Italy or Seattle or Columbia or something. So that
was something that was important to me. You know. It
was actually even camped into some of the work I
did as a photo journalist, which was wanting to sort
of reveal some of the stories UH in Africa and
African to ASPRAA that were I think, you know, miss
uhconceived images and understandings of Africa right where it's not
(08:53):
just a desolate place with misery and you know, suffering,
but you know vibrant, rich cultures with lush lanes and
you know there's hard times too. But as a photographer
and artists I went into I was compelled to show
and tell some of those stories. I'm seeing more and
more entrepreneurs of color getting into coffee. It's a billion
(09:17):
dollar a year industry. So this is an enormous industry
of technology, education, training, importing, exporting for people who are
not up on coffee, who can't really understand or rationalize
like a three dollar or four dollar a cup of coffee. Um,
(09:41):
can you talk about some of the distinguishing characteristics from
some of the regions that you will work with, and
how that has an impact on the premium coffee if
you think about the spectrum of quality and prices that
come with the industry, like wine coffee, for really special
(10:02):
tea coffee emerged as a theme. It was really just
the cheapest coffee, roasted really dark. So it's all sort
of the same as and predictability of of mediocracy. And
it was cheap and you know, and it had caffeine
and that was sort of the thing. So as as
the industry started to kind of specialize and trying to
(10:26):
elevate the quality, you know, the level of investment, the
level of labor that goes into it. You know, the
complexity you know of specialty coffee is as much or
greater than than wine. Special thing is once you start
sort of exploring outside of latte's and cappuccinos and flavored drinks,
(10:48):
and so yeah, I would just encourage everyone who's listening
to this. You know, next time you're coffee shop and
you have a few extra minutes, you know, um order
to pore over and just talk to the recent about
some of the different options, and you know, you may
pay a dollar more and wait a few more minutes. Uh,
(11:08):
but go forward and invest invest in that all right on,
and what is next for Red Bay Coffee? Signed the
lease on a on a building in South l a.
And we're just broke ground this week on the construction
(11:30):
of it. And uh yeah, it's very exciting, you know.
So what we're building is a public rostary, but our
spaces are also open to the public, their cafes, their
their venues for doing all sorts of events. So that's
one of the things that distinguished his Red Bay Coffee
from most coffee companies. We create platforms for community engagement.
(11:55):
We did two hundred events last year in Oakland at
our public rostery there. So this will be our second
public rosary and it's you know, eleven thousand square fee. Um.
And there will be you know, designed, there will be
our you know events around you know um, you know, uh,
(12:17):
independent films or you know, fundraises for fifty black women
running for political office, conferences around educating the black child
to live music and you know, pole dancing demonstrations that
I mean, it really is really a reflection of the community.
It's really a manifestation of what is around us in
(12:39):
the community. Really Big Coffee is the largest black owned
coffee company in the world and UM, and we're making
a impact. We're you know, doing what we do in
terms of storytelling and marketing and and UM to make
especially coffee more approachable in terms of you know, really
(13:00):
how it's you know, thinking about some of these relationships,
you know what I have seen mostly in the industry,
it's a lot more sort of barista as a color, right,
So it's visibly you're you're seeing it change on the
very front lines. UM. Not as much in the boardrooms
and ownership and and really executive leadership of some of
(13:23):
the more competitive companies. I'm not really seeing it there yet.
I'm seeing more and more entrepreneurs of color getting into coffee.
It's a billion dollar a year industry and there's just
such a vast array of career paths and opportunities. I'm
(13:46):
always encouraging folks to to, you know, explore them. I
was born and raised in Bundi, which is a central
(14:06):
East Africa. It's a very small and tiny country and
we call it the heart of Africa as a more fact,
but unlocked sharing borders would want that to the north
Tanzania to the east and then Congo to the west.
Burundi native Janine neon Ziema, a Roian, is the owner
and founder of j NP Coffee. Yeah, so brund is
(14:27):
a producing it to a coffee producing country actually which
most people you know, not everybody knows about it. But
we didn't drink coffee. Actually when I was growing up
in my own home, we actually drink more tea, teas more.
You know, the culture you know, in Burundi and um
coffee mainly was used for is a is a cash crop.
(14:48):
In two thousand twelve, Janine founded j NP Coffee and
has since won multiple awards for her specialty coffees and
development strategies, which have consistently prioritized participation in equity for
women working at the point of origin, prioritizing gender equality,
supporting financial literacy and education, plus development of leadership skills.
(15:12):
Janine today is the only woman who is a majority
shareholder in a large Burundian coffee conglomerate. Bone is a
very small country. It's actually the size of Maryland State. UM.
And then because it's so small also um, there is
a scarcey of land. Uh. There's eleven million people living
in Burundi. UM and really we kind of like live
(15:34):
on the top of each other, if she might say,
because of you know, how small the country is and
and and also um what can be produced from that country.
So when we really talk about coffee that's produced from Burundi, UM,
it's it's it's very little compared to how much coffee
is produced in places like you know, Brazil. UM. So
because of that, the opportunity actually to be able to
(15:56):
make a coffee from Brundi very special and very unique
is that, um, because it's not overwhelming. We don't use machinery,
you know, but you know, the cherries are picked by
hand during the harvests and every year by the farmers
and um. So the you know, the the labor work,
it's very intensive. This is something also some of the
(16:16):
most people don't understand is the amount of time and
energy that goes into really making that cup of perfect
cup of coffee that you end up by consuming every
morning that we all look forward to. Uh So, but
you know, labor wise, it is it is very intensive
because it's the same bound the coffee is picked by hand.
There's no machineries, um. And it's it's delivered to the
(16:38):
neuralests you know, wet meal, and usually that's about an
hour or so of walk. So most of the pickers
you know would actually deliver on the on the head um.
Some of them were you know, fortunately have a bicycle.
They will actually put on a bicycle so it can
be delivered to the nearest you know, wet meal on
on bicycle. And then once the coffee actually get to
the wet maal it gets there's like another level process,
(17:00):
you know, they had. There's this flotation process that the
coffee had to go through. And after the flotation and
which I mean the you know, the good things, they
take it out the bad things that throw it away.
And then after that the coffee goes into a machinery
which called the the popping, which removed the skin over
you know, the cherry. And then it goes into uh
the soaking overnight soaking of the cherries into um tanks
(17:24):
you know, until you know that what they called the
musilage to be able to remove that you know, mutilage
on on on the you know, on the beans, and
then from there the wash it and then it goes
onto the called the rays African beds and that is
like a thirty days time to really turn and um,
(17:45):
turning and and moving and covering of of the of
the of the bean until it dries out and then
goes to the dry meal um then which it goes
through the last process before I get explorts. So it's
it's very labor intense. But because so the nature of
the country being small, on the amount of coffee that's
being produced in Bundi, it's small relative to what goes
(18:06):
on in other bigger countries um or major countries, which
also is also in my point of view, as an
opportunity to really make the Boondi coffee just amazingly exceptionally. UM. Well, yeah,
that makes sense. Because it's so small, it actually gives
you a larger opportunity and the global marketplace because it's
(18:28):
a more specialty item. For me, the reason I really
got into more coffee and and and left the corporate
world was the ability, as I said about this you
know special beings from Bundy, the ability that we actually
we could you know, utilize this being to alleviate people
out of poverty. In two thousand and eight, before starting
(18:49):
JMP Coffee, Janine started a nonprofit called Burundi Friends International
and Economic Empowerment Initiative to create sustaining communities in Burundi.
In the last four years alone, J and P has
paid over a quarter million dollars in the form of
bonuses and premiums which encourage quality and ensure economic sustainability.
(19:12):
So I actually use this as a way to kind
of empower you know, farmers in Bundy to kind of
provide them, you know, an opportunity to be able to
get the extra income in by incentivizing and empowering the
farmers to produce the high quality you know cup of coffee.
Because we always go back and provide what we call
the second payment in the form of a premium then
(19:32):
again to encourage them to continuously you know, produce a
high quality you know coffee. But in terms of so
I'm involved from everything, you know, there's a from you know,
dealing with farmers. You know, I get calls from farmers
all the time UM that that we that we deal
with to you know, dealing with one males that we
also happened to also have some shares in some of
(19:54):
their web mails, which is the processing you know centers
UH in Bundy to UM making sure that every single time.
I always tell people it's like every cherries that we
provide is Genpi coffee. We have been involved from that
chair from the time we get picked from the tree
to the time we actually get delivered to the wind
male which just follow it all the way through. As
(20:15):
as as an owner, I get involved from you know,
farmers wanting to work with us and figuring out we
want to work with and how we're going to support them,
to making sure that you know, the coffee, we select
the right coffee and and we bring forward the right coffee,
to exporting a small fact right now is really speaking, um,
just finishing putting some coffee on trucks that are living Bundy,
(20:39):
and we have some continuers that have already left you
know the port of Tanzania heading um, you know to
the States. So this this, this is the whole taking
talking about the whole picture of what I get involved
from knowledge is you know what coffee origins that you know,
our coffee come from. But she also really getting the coffee,
you know, move smoothly and safely from Londed to get
(21:00):
into port in the US too, then finally getting to
our rosters you know, throughout the country. In this case
in the US, but also in other part of the
world because we also work in Europe and an Asia.
M hm, can you help us understand Burundi and it's
coffee from a ter war perspective? Very good question. So, Um,
(21:24):
first of all, I think, as I had mentioned earlier,
brewing this absolutely gorgeous country. So it's a bit and
and and you don't I didn't know myself how beautiful
it is actually until I went back, which is very interesting.
But it's very hilly. Um and coffee usually grow from
anywhere around six six thousand feet above sea level. Um
(21:46):
and Um. The weather is very cool in the countryside
where the you know, coffee grows, and usually on hills.
Um And the soil itself, it's a volcanic soil. It's
actually kind of a reddish soil, which is very good
when it comes to providing the right nutrients you know,
for you know, for the cherries. So it also helps
you know, to hold the water very well in the
(22:07):
cherries and also produced like the the right ingredients that
the cherries need to grow and and and grow well.
Burundi's volcanic soil and modest annual rainfall contribute to a
perfect environment for growing coffee. Volcanic soil is rich and
nutrients such as nitrogen, which coffee plants really really need.
(22:29):
Burundi's Arabica coffee grows at a high altitude, which contributes
to the bright acidity, sweetness and complexity of these full
bodied coffees. And then there's a sunshine so it's cooler
during the day, the airly in the morning, uh, kind
of like the bay area actually climates, if I might say.
And then during the middle of the day, you know,
the sun just like you know, just shine on on
(22:51):
on the trees and then on the cherries, which is
something that also perhaps you know, the you know, the
cherries to grow very well. And and and I time it
goes down to our cooling which also preserve and help
uh you know, the cherries you know grow properly. Um.
So yeah, so very high elevation um. And also the
(23:12):
volcanic soil of of of Burundi and also the cooler
weather um and also being able to grow on the
hills really helps. I guess the coffee from Bundy very
unique and and and Bundy also have like when you
talk about the different areas, it's like the northern part
of Brundi which is you know share boarders Rwanda which
is the Cayanza and go to Ze and there is
(23:34):
a central part of Boondy which also Um it's another
different when it comes to a coffee coming from one
area to another one you think you find in my
point of you find more lemoned citrus and from one side,
and I find more chocolate and spices from the other side,
from the other part of the country. And then there
is actually new Ti we also were trying we have
recently discover which is more and there a north east
(23:57):
part of the country. UM that's more kind like crisp clean,
you know in terms of like the taste notes that
you can find into the coffee. And and additional to these,
you know Spruckling a city back that you usually would
expect to our finding some very well prepared coffee from Bounding. Wow,
God love it. So it's it's very interesting because I
(24:19):
also think that's you know, each coffee in my point
of view, each of the different coffee. Um of our
coffee has a home. So they always they always tell you,
even like you know, high end coffee to just not
so high end coffee. Each coffee has a home. But
it really I think that's we are. We are very
lucky um to do from the fact that you know,
(24:39):
I really I choose why it sell my coffee too
most of the times. So I do know people who
understand we're going to you know, treat the coffees and
wild who also aligned with our value because above or
beyond just the quality, which this is the first and
foremost you know for my business and has always been
UM that I always you know, strive for um. You know,
(25:02):
companies also have to be alligned in terms of lack
our values and when we understand. So I tried to
kind of like you know, pick you know, based on
that and um because to me, producing the great coffee
from Burundi and bring the great coffee from Bundy to
the world market is so wonderful. But what else are
we doing for the people? And what are the politics
of land and Burundi Because you mentioned earlier it's a
(25:24):
really densely populated country, so what is the relationship among
the citizens and the farmers, So the politocademics are around
the land. Is is very interesting because I'm chuckling because
one of my belief and one of the things that
my company is very well known for is the fact
that we empower women. Um. And the reason how we
(25:45):
have like a very small program on empowering women is
because women bound they usually you know, did not have
right to on land. Um. So if um you know, uh,
you know, if her husband or father ahead I'm man
who's like ahead of the of the of the of
the household passed away, um, the wife does not acquire
(26:07):
ownership of the land. However, women in Burundi are expected
and also do are the one who do work the land.
They work the land. Um. They are the one who
provide fe wh who do all the work and you
know in the house. But not they're not not just
necessary the one who went up by you know, owning
that land. So in most you know cases in Burundi,
when when the husband passed away, the sons you know
(26:30):
get ownership of the land and then um in this case,
if it doesn't have the sons, then you know, maybe
the brother gets you know, ownership of the land. Um.
So it's it's very it was very difficult for me
growing up and actually seeing this, the fact that the
women were the one who are doing all the work. Um,
you know, in the background, but we're actually the one
who have you know, no rights to anything, right. I
(27:02):
think they always work is to really make this industry sustainable,
um as much as possible. UM. I strive in my
work and what I do with gently coffee to make
it as sustainable as possible. The coffee that I'm trading
today only focused on Burundi because it's what I believe
that needs to be done and to be able to
(27:23):
help my people. So in my in the ideal world
for me is just look at the way to actually
make this industry sustainable, uh, you know, encourage and bring
the youth, you know along, empower women because when you
empower women, more things can be done for the families
and for the communities in my point of view, and
what I had also experienced and also incentifies in quality
(27:44):
and then pay the farmers the right price. And that's
something that's it's very hard to be discussing about right
now when the ce market is rounding one, you know,
one one and wanting some change dollar um, you know,
per pound. So it's very very hard and and most
it actually don't even understand. Some people think that fur
trade anything that says for a trade that's the best value.
(28:05):
But actually fur trade is just like a few cents
above the sea market. Uh. We always in our case,
we always pay way above and beyond you know, for tress,
So we don't even touch the fur trade part because
we are already above and beyond the fur trade price
are ours of today. Um, But I think that's really
working hard to make sure that the farmers are being
(28:26):
compensated right for the you know, the product that they
work so hard for is extremely important. Is what I
had a chance to actually see the you know, just
a wide variety of amazing coffee that were produced from
bund And and the potential really at that time for me,
I realized the potential that you know, something willing to
be done can be done with coffee to you know,
(28:49):
even help the people bold even further. Absolutely, absolutely, I
think it's very confusing with labeling. It's so frustrating to
see a lot of well intentioned can sumers who want
to do the right thing, but continue to support brands
that really aren't worthy of that support because we've been
trained to think that these labels are actually what we
(29:12):
need to support full stop, and that's just not accurate.
Is there more appropriate label? To signal to customers that
this is a company that pays above fair trade or
is there a way for us as consumers to try
and support exporters and intermediaries like yourself who are more
(29:32):
deeply invested in the well being of the workers. Basically,
I'm just asking how can we be better coffee consumers? Actually,
like you said, what the consumer don't understand? What's consumers
just don't understand? And uh um And I'm not trying
to put down for a trade. I think it's it's
it's a starting point in my point of view, because
I think it's a starting point of creating awareness. Um.
(29:53):
So there's so many terminology of being used out there,
like you know, direct trade, uh, you know, ethnically um,
sourced um and so forth. But I think that's one
just have to you know, to dig deeper, um in
my point of view, like a for our company, you know,
we you know, I'm from Burundi first and foremost, so
I actually I owe my people by choice, you know,
(30:17):
you know, I don't have to. You know, there are
a lot of people from Bundy who have you know,
who left the country and they're not not necessary go
back um and to work in their own countries or
do something for their own people. So I think there
are some great companies out there who are doing the
right thing. But it's a question about really getting educated
and actually really doing your own research and trying to
find out which one are doing what they said they
(30:38):
are doing, and which one are aligned with your value
and which one do you want to support, you know,
for that same reason. So I was in graduate school
UM here in the Bay Area, and who was setting
intercultural studies just you know, I was very interested in
and understanding the world and getting to find ways that
(31:00):
I could make an impact in the in the world. Lord,
I got a job, just like many people working uh
in a cafe needed to have a part time job
to pay for things. WHA, I was in school UM
and there was another guy who was hired to work
alongside of me around the same time, and both of
us became friends that he was from Eritrea. The voice
you just heard is that of Doug Hewitt. Doug is
the owner and founder of nineteen fifty one Coffee in Berkeley, California,
(31:23):
And he began to tell me his story of fleeing
Irratree and why he had fled and fleeing into Sudan
and making his way across the Sahara Desert into Libya
and making his way across the Mediterranean. This whole long
story before he finally was able to reach the United
States to settle. Until those here and I had I
(31:44):
had never heard a story like that before. This was
in two thousand and seven, and it suddenly opened my
mind up to a world that I didn't know much about.
Beginning to know him and getting to know his community
kind of introduced me to two refugees. One Coffee is
a nonprofit specialty coffee organization that supports the Bay Area
(32:09):
refugee and as Sili community through providing job training and
employment opportunities. Yeah, so we we are a cafe. We
actually have three cafes for a coffee company UM, and
we also have a Barisa training programs that we operate
to trains obviously trains people to be barista's UM. Potentially
about twenty five of those people UM can work in
(32:32):
our cafes and the positions that we have. But then
we also have a network of other coffee companies here
in the San Francisco Bay Area UM that will also
hire our graduates. Because that was something in the process
of creating our own cafes that we came across is
here in these specialty coffee community in the Bay Area,
there is a need for for barruss, there's a need
(32:52):
for for workers and especially people who want to be
in that industry and too so to make that a
career UM. And so we kind of came across that
were allis we were in in the right place and
the right you know, the thing where we have an
industry that is in need of people that want to
be there and to be there for a while UM.
And we also have this pool of people who are
new to the country who are looking for a place
to be in a place where they can put down
(33:13):
roots and really start a career. We work at. The
largest number of people that we that we work with
are actually from er A Trea and East Africa. And
if anyone knows anything about Ero Trea, they have a
very close shared history UM with Ethiopia, which is Etia
was the birthplace of coffee UM and has a very
extensive coffee culture M and that is also shared with
(33:33):
Erra Trea UM and so very often for Aerotrea and
sitting down over a cup of coffee is not a five, ten,
twenty minute or an hour experience. Very often it can
be a three hour experience of intentionally roasting the coffee
in front of your guest and sharing the experience of
the aroma of the coffee as a rose, and then
the making of the coffee and intentionally going through the
(33:56):
three cups of coffee and going through, you know, a process.
And so for you know, for us making a cup
of coffee and being detailed in the process, to someone
from ere A Tria that like, this is this is
how you're supposed to doke coffee. Coffee is not something
that you just drink, you know, on a limb when
you're running the work like it is a process, it
is a ceremony, um. And so I think, you know,
very awesome. It's just it's finding those connecting points. Whether
(34:19):
it's someone from ere A Trea who who understands the
detail of coffee and the elegance of coffee and you know,
at its core, um. But then with people who grew
up in cultures you know, Afghanistan where the key and
the use of saffron and things is you know, is
also in that same way, it's a very high quality,
high luxury thing. That's something that you you do when
(34:42):
you are being hospitable towards your guests and finding those
connecting points of each person in each culture to communicate
that process, and you find it ultimately that idea of
serving people well is a very universal thing. Fourth wave coffee,
(35:04):
fair trade, fair wages. As is so often the case
in the verbiage of sustainability, much of the language is
lost in translation between who is being marketed to and
who is being supported. The resources almost certainly end up
directed towards the consumers and far less so towards those
(35:26):
on the ground who create all of the value. And
within that language, so much is communicated that goes beyond
the words that are used. I'm thinking about the US
political language and the difference between working class and poor
sustainability and the kinds of brands who promoted and the
(35:50):
places that purvey it. Further the gap not only between
those who benefit and those who perpetuate, but also the
gap between who is welcome and who isn't. Much of
the work that we present is about reclamation, because we
recognize the power of the kind of inclusion that moves
(36:11):
beyond language and instead is rooted in the truth of
one's own history. Knowing coffee comes from Africa and African
people supersedes the superlatives that are used to sell coffee.
It doesn't mean that we should abandon earnest efforts of
collective improvement. It just means that we should absorb that
(36:32):
history and in doing so, whose language we prioritize. Reclaiming
our stories closes the gap between producer and consumer and
who gets to indulge versus who must labor, and particularly
for specialty coffee, changes the images of the faces that
(36:52):
we see when we think about ownership, leisure, knowledge and craft.
We'd like to thank our guest today Kaba Conti of
Red Bay Coffee in Fruitvale, California, to Janine jon Zuma
a Rohan from j MP Coffee, and to all of
the incredible women coffee farmers that she works with in Burundi.
(37:13):
Thank you to Doug Hewitt of nineteen one Coffee in Oakland, California.
You can learn more about this episode in our guest
at wet Stone Magazine dot com, Backslash podcast, or on
i G at wet Stone Magazine. We'll be back next
week with our second to last episode of the season
where we'll be talking about the morality of meat. I'm
(37:33):
your host, Steven Siderfield. We'll see you back here next
week with more from the world of food from around
the world Peace. We'd also like to thank our incredible
podcast producer Selene Glazier. Selene, you are the best. To
our editor and wet Stone partner and director of video
David Alexander in London. I appreciate you, Dave. Thanks to
(37:57):
our wet Stone production intern Quentin Bow and last but
not least, my business partner Mel She who makes all
things at Whetstone possible. Thank you Mel. We'd also like
to thank our partners and production at I Heart Radio
to Gabrielle Collins, our supervising producer and executive producer Christopher Haciotis.
(38:20):
We'll be back next week with more from the world
of food worldwide. Point of Origin listeners, As you know,
rating and reviewing our podcast is the very best way
for more people to find out about our very important
(38:42):
work at Whetstone, So please, if you're able, we would
really appreciate a positive review in rating on Apple podcast
that will help others like yourself find out about Point
of Origin.