January 9, 2019 • 39 mins
The body is an experiment, says Dr. Jennifer Ashton, and it benefits when working out becomes a tool for processing big life change.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
When I was really stressed and emotionally not happy. It
gave back to me as my career did. When I
gave time to my kids, I was rewarded back with
a better relationship with them. When I put time into
my body, I was rewarded back with feeling good, being healthy,
looking good, amazing not anymore. Hey, welcome to you Turns.
(00:34):
I am Lisa Os and I am Jelfersick, and you're
a podcast all about change that we are. So one
of the drivers have changed is your body. And your
body just goes through stuff, and you know you can
kind of be dragged around behind those physical changes or
I think we've seen that you can kind of drive
(00:55):
change yourself. And one of the things I feel like
I learned from you, Lisa all the time, is to
treat your body as a bit of an experiment. I
mean as well, um, your lovely doctor husband is always
seems to be experimented himself. Both of you do, and
it's kind of made me braver about doing it. Well,
if we're talking about like going off to acro yoga
(01:16):
or like, you know, what was do we do together?
The freezing thing that grows the Jesus oide of ourselves
and yeah, a shade of red for hours afterwards that
I've never seen before since. Well, yeah, I'm I literally
am up for anything, um and one of my partners
(01:36):
in crime and inspirations, and you know, for me it's
also it's like just struggling against the whole aging thing
and um, so many issues. But one of my favorite
people to talk to about all things, um, body issue
is Dr Jennifer Ashton, who is joining us here today.
She is the ABC News Chief medical correspondent and more importantly,
(02:02):
the godmother of my daughter's oh age. And thanks so
much for being It's so good to be here with
you guys. Yes, that is my most important title. Um.
Can we talk about body image of it and aging
and just how we as because we are women of
a certain age. I guess once you hit like forty, Um,
how do you deal with that in media, in life
(02:24):
with your patients? What? What is that? First of all,
I deal with it literally every day in all three
of those fears, which gives me a really interesting perspective
that I am always um, repositioning myself from those different
vantage points and viewpoints to try and process it myself
(02:46):
and process it with and for literally millions of other women.
So what what do you want to start with? Myself,
my medical offers, my patients, media. I mean, it's they're
so much. I mean, you know, I think one of
the things we were curious about is how much do
you struggle against it personally? Personally and how much do
you are like all out war? I mean, you know what,
(03:07):
I kind of vacillate between two, um, two positions. There
are times and I don't think this is equally split. Unfortunately,
right now this is probably in the minority where I
will see someone either my own age or considerably older,
and I just the person who pops into my mind.
(03:27):
Well two people actually, um, Jamie Lee Curtis and Dame
Helen Mirren. I mean those women make me literally not
afraid of aging. Um. I think they encapsulate the best spirit,
the best mind, body image, the best elegance and grace.
I personally think it looks bizarre when women, you know,
(03:49):
they're of a certain age because of everything else they've
achieved in their life, like their kids or their grandkids
or whatever, and they're trying to walk around looking or
acting thirty years younger. I think that's bizarre on many levels.
So I definitely know I don't want that. That's just concerning. Yeah,
it's just jarring. It shakes your you know, your sense
(04:11):
of what's right with the world exactly look at people
and think, Okay, I'm doing an uneasy feeling and I
don't know what that's wrong, right, right, And so when
I I definitely know I don't want that. And there
are sometimes I think that if there were no mirrors,
I would be totally fine with the aging process. Um
and then oh my god, such a wonder time angle
(04:35):
right up your nose the neck and the neck and
the jaw and the chin. But but anyway, filters fix that,
I mean filter I'm working on designing one, but that's
right totally. But I also, whenever I kind of am
struggling with my own issues with this, I realize the
(04:57):
alternative and it's kind of the comic leaf and it
comes medically, of course, But what is the alternative? Not aging?
So then that's right, So then you're dead? Um? So no,
no things? Uh so, yeah, I mean I see it.
I see it in myself. I deal with it in
myself every day. Um, and I deal with it literally
with my patients. Would you tell your patients that a
(05:21):
I'm going through the same stuff they're going through. Um,
because I really can't stand, you know, this kind of
societal or cultural you know push back where people say, oh,
just embrace it all, and you know that's us, right, No,
no one, No one wants to embrace the neck or
the wrinkles or the weight or anything, right right, yeah, yeah,
(05:41):
no one. So I kind of tell them that, yes,
I know what they're talking about, and then I try
to put it into medical perspective, which for women, I
literally think starting around age forty, but powerfully after fifty
you really do what was it? Sophia round And said
you have to choose between your tush and your face.
(06:02):
That literally is true. So you just keep eating. I mean,
you know, but but when they say you know the way,
the way, the weight, I'll say, do you want your
face to look caved in and ten years older? Because
that will happen for sure if and then they know
that that's true, and we kind of try to come
to a like we all agree that there's no great
(06:23):
answer to this moment and hug each other and go on.
And I also think so philor And said, everything you
see I owe to spaghetti. So maybe that's one way
to choose. They just know how to live, they know
how to age. So if your if your patients come
to you and they ask for anti aging advice, both
both health in terms of keeping themselves vital and strong,
(06:44):
but also in terms of aesthetics, like how do I
not look like I'm heading towards the crowst Okay, I'll
give you. I'll give you my bulleted answers. And this
is what I say both to my patients and I
say it on the air. Um. Number one, you can't
out plastic surgery or out dermatology, bad eating, bad rest,
(07:05):
and bad fitness. You can't, though, that is the trifecta
of health. You know this. We've been living this and
talking about it for literally twenty five plus years. If
you don't focus on those three areas getting good sleep,
getting proper fuel and nutrition, and getting the right fitness
and activity, you're not gonna look good and you're not
going to feel good. That's just a fact. Um. The
(07:27):
second thing is is that I think the best you know,
my dermatologist is on speed dial, and I I really
do believe in preventative and maintenance and things like that.
But I think that there's obviously a line that you
can cross, and I think the natural look. I don't
want to erase all wrinkles from my face. I mean,
(07:48):
you know, I'm forty nine years old, so if I
didn't have wrinkles, there would be something weird going on.
But I want to look really good for forty nine.
That doesn't mean looking twenty nine. I just want to
look the best I can look for platy nine. So
I think that kind of natural approach is really good.
And then I'm really open with I fully plan to
have some kind of plastic surgery at some point, whether
(08:10):
it's a neck, a face, or whatever, because I like
that look better than a lot of the injectibles. That's personal,
I mean. And the last thing I think is personally
you know, as you know, Lisa, my brother is a
reconstructive plastic surgeon sadly doesn't do any cosmetics. But I've
learned a lot from him, which is that um as
(08:32):
we age a lot of what we don't like, possibly
about our face and neck. Um as women and men,
I might add, um I think is really better corrected
surgically with plastic surgery rather than with the less invasive
kind of injectables, fillers, etcetera, etcetera, because to me, surgery
gives a more natural um appearance. But again, it's all
(08:56):
about being the best you can look, not looking like
someone else. Okay, So since we're talking about looking better
and feeling better, Jill had told me about something that
she was curious about that you do. Okay, so I
was researching you and um, I mean and loving your
(09:16):
the medical practice that the sort of thinking behind it
treats women, treats every patient like they're a very important person.
It sounds so luxurious and spot like. And then there's
something that you really push called, I think theirmiva. I'm
so glad that because I'm not afraid to say the
word vagina, vagina, Thank god, we can say that your vagina.
(09:37):
It's a laser and it go. Okay, lasers and vaginas.
To me, I feel like, there's not exactly laser. But
how much time do we have? I love? Have you
done it? Yes? Seriously, I would never recommend anything to
my patients that I wouldn't be willing to do or
have tried my body as an experiment totally. So here's
(09:58):
what their amiva is. First of all, it is off label.
So of course, like many things we do in medicine today,
it is not FDA approved. You have not calmed me.
I should because when I tell you the litany of
things that we do every day that are off label,
it's more things are off label in traditional Western medicine
(10:18):
than they are f d A approved for one indication,
that's just a fact. What's it for? Really, it's for
skin tightening. So when I when I got the machine,
I wanted the full body probe that could tighten skin everywhere.
But it is actually non ablative radio frequency energy. So
what does that mean. It doesn't cause a burn, there's
(10:41):
no anesthesia, there's no downtime, and so no pain, no downtime,
no anesthesia. It's a procedure that takes eighteen minutes. The probe,
which goes inside the vagina is the width of an
index finger, a woman's index finger. I should say, okay um.
And what that radio frequency does is it stimulates new collagen.
(11:03):
So here are the things that is being used for
in the world of gynecology. Vaginal dryness at any age,
vaginal laxity at any age. So I've done this on
women doctors after they've had babies. I've done this on
women literally from seven to sixty seven, and it's done
for sagging external skin, genital skin, which is by far
(11:26):
from my practice. The minority of the people don't really care.
Not people saying I want to porn star. But you
know this is internal so that for sensation, lubrication, tightness,
and it is phenomenal for overactive bladder, which is very
common as women age for a number of reasons. So
can we go do this too? You know, like the
cry Oh you want to go adventure with a little
(11:48):
rob in like a double room and I can be
holding your hand in you can bet my head in
the same room. Yeah, totally. No, you don't listen. I've
people like on their phones watching TV. We're talking as
I mean it is. And I really was so curious
because I mean, I can say anything on this podcast, right.
(12:09):
I have a patient who's fifty one, so perimenopausal by definition.
She texted me after her third treatment, because you're supposed
to do three one month apart, and she said, something
just happened. It's a little disgusting. I said, I'm a gynecologist. Really,
it's impossible to out and she goes, I just squirted
(12:31):
while I was having some she goes. I didn't even
know that was possible, and I attributed all to the thermibia.
And at that point I called my nurse and I said,
you've been watching me do this procedure for two years.
You're going to try it out on me. That's what
got you on the well, I mean, and and other
women saying we have to change the sheets after we
have straight up hasn't made your sex life much better? Yeah,
(12:53):
I mean an immediate difference. It was I will tell
you that. My nurse when she said, but Jen, you
don't have a problem, why are you doing it? I said,
preventative a UM, I really did not have an issue before.
But it has made it even better. And my boyfriend
noticed a difference. Spouses are noticing differences. They're feeling like
more tightness than anybody ever say, okay, you want a
(13:17):
little too far hurts two sense of its hurting. I've
had two patients in three years who really didn't feel
like they got too much of a response. But that's
over several hundred, so the the individual response will vary
like anything else. But it's really amazing. And I want
to say because this was actually in the news the
FDA started to look into all these vaginal quote unquote
(13:37):
rejuvenation procedures as well. They should Yeah, well, yes and no.
I think it's disturbing that the FDA is looking into
it after it's been going on for ten years. Number one,
But anything having to do with a woman takes a
back door kind of you know, backseat, and I think
that they're finding they want to make sure that it's
not causing more damage than benefit, which is appropriate. Um.
(13:59):
And there are a lot of different procedures out there,
so women should definitely do their research, but this is
the one that I've been using for three years that
I've found the results amazing and it's about time women
have some more options. Okay, when we come back where
I get I'll take a little deeper, an deeper jee,
all right, we're gonna talk about you turns when we
come back. Let's do it on this podcast. We like
(14:28):
to explore personal changes, um, you turns we call them,
and how we navigate those in the most productive way.
What I've noticed with you, which is kind of unique.
I think people say people when people have a U turn,
it's usually a shift in direction, so they go from
like being a full time mom to being an emptynister,
from being working full time like like um Jill has
(14:50):
been doing to not being a period of like transition
or married to divorced. You have this way of like
just not even changing direction but expanding your road, which
is kind of unique. So you, as I've known you,
You've gone from being like uh med school doctor and
then suddenly because what you do, you do fully so
(15:12):
it could be a full time drum off, so doctor
to mom and doctor to medical expert and mom and doctor.
And I just don't know how you do know your
full time media, full time practice, you have these incredible kids,
how do you just like keep expanding your road. So,
first of all, I'm so I feel so blessed to
(15:36):
have the twenty five years of friendship and like sisterhood
with you, Lisa, and and I feel like you have
a unique perspective on my life because you have. I mean,
you've known me for so long before I was a mom,
before I was a doctor, before I was a medical correspondent.
But I think I think that the way and I
(15:57):
do agree with you, it's it's gotten wider that you
don't give up any of the right, And I think
that's the reason for that is that I really everything
I do is authentic to who I am, and I
don't do anything that I don't fully love and get
really excited about. But I also don't feel like I
(16:18):
have to switch gears from one quote unquote role or
job to another, because I feel like they're all They're
all the authentic me, and so it's just about, you know,
what environment am I in at any given time to
be doing any of them, But it's kind of all
the same. Jen Ashton Um. I also think something that
(16:41):
I've been inspired a lot by you is and I
think this is pretty common around midlife, especially for women,
that you do start to wonder should I try something else,
or should I do this, or should I take advantage
of this opportunity, or you know, getting out of your
comfort zone, which for me personally, in the last five
years I've done um, which I'm happy to talk about.
(17:05):
But I think that when you are faced with those
kind of opportunities, they don't always come banging down your door.
Sometimes they're whispering, you know, behind your shoulder. Sometimes they're
just scratching at your door. Sometimes they're vigorously knocking, and
you're trying to ignore the knocking. But I think that
if you're not open to trying new things or to
(17:27):
expanding your U turn as you describe it with me,
then you can miss out on a lot of really
impactful and fun, uh and profound experiences. Does that make sense?
It absolutely does. But you also teased us with those
things that didn't mention, so okay, well one of them,
one of them, to start kind of more on the superficial,
(17:49):
like easier stuff to talk about, was academic and professional.
And that was when I got my master's in nutrition,
which I remember telling you about and you said, why
you don't you already know a lot about about that?
And I said, yeah, but you know, I'm such an
academic geek and I like those initials after my name,
and you know whatever. So I went back to Columbia
to get a master's in nutrition and it took three years,
(18:09):
and it was brutal. It was really really hard because
I was, you know, committing a weekend a month for
two and a half years to this. I mean, it's legit,
and it was hardcore. UM as a master's from an
Ivy League university should be. UM, But I loved it
because it did force me to literally go back to
school to learn to do work. I had to do
(18:31):
my own master's thesis UM research and I learned a
lot and I'm glad I did that. And I didn't
realize as I was doing it that in the process
I was teaching my children, who were then in high
school that, see, the learning never stops. It's never too
late to go back to school. Um. And it wounded,
It's okay to struggle. Yeah, and it came out to
like it, I mean, UM. So I think that that
(18:55):
was massive for them and for me as a mom.
For me as a doctor, it enriched what I can
talk about with my patients. It's enriched the credibility that
I have when I talk about diets and nutrition on
Good Morning America. So that was major. At around the
same time, my marriage was ending and it was a
mutual agreement and it was very evolved as I as
(19:18):
I like to put it, and it was um amicable.
But that was one of the largest life stressors and
life changes. No one goes into marriage planning for that, uh,
and I had been married twenty two years, so that
was scary and it was sad and it was painful
on so many levels. And it wasn't until I kind
(19:41):
of started coming through that process with the support you know,
of a very few people, actually, because I felt so
self conscious to go and talk to other people who
normally see me with like my ship really together and
admit failure, admit weakness, admit vulnerability and all those things.
(20:02):
So I really kept it inside, you know, for the
most part. And it wasn't until I found an amazing
therapist and you know, really was helped through the process
by one of my oldest friends from high school that
I started to come through it. And then, as many
people know, unfortunately because it was a national news story, um,
the father of my children and the person I had
been married to for twenty two years, Uh committed suicide
(20:25):
two weeks after our divorce was final, and UM that
was that literally shattered me into a million pieces. So
it was not until I had to put those pieces
back together, largely for the sake of my children, that
I really put all the dots together and connected all
(20:48):
the dots on everything I had just been through and
realized that failure to accept your own vulnerability and be
able to sit in those difficult times with yourself and
with pain and with doubt, and with anger and with fear.
I believe that's what took Rob's life, no differently than
(21:09):
a disease like cancer. He was never able to be
okay with those lows or the highs of life, so
he wanted to live in the middle. And you can't
live life in the middle. You know one of my
patients who's a PhD, she has two PhDs. She's an
incredible person. Her name is Dr Brenda Brown. She's seventy
five years old. And when Rob died, she came to
(21:32):
me in my office a couple of weeks later, when
I went back to work after two weeks, and she said, Jen,
life is not about avoiding pain. No one can get
through life with no pain. Life is about processing that pain,
learning how to live through it, and then continuing to live.
(21:52):
And I'll never forget those words, because I had basically
tried to get through life without acknowledging any failure, any pain,
any weakness. And for the most part, that was a
good coping mechanism because I set the bar so high
and most of the right as it as it often does,
(22:14):
that's right. But um, it wasn't until I literally had
no choice but to say, oh, things are not all perfect.
I'm in a lot of pain. I felt on many
many levels that I had failed in the most primary
responsibility a parent has, which is to protect their children
from pain. And I felt I had obviously failed at that.
(22:37):
And um, have you have you changed in your belief
that that's that's the primary responsibility? Jill, it's I'm so
glad you asked that, because, I mean, the answer is yes,
because in many ways, you know how when you speak
to someone who's been through cancer or an accident or
(22:58):
in your death experience, they say, oh, this taught me
how to live. I think that Rob's death taught me
and my children how to live in a way that
we unfortunately didn't know before that happened. So as a result,
the one, the one good thing I can say is that,
especially for my children, who you know now, I should
(23:22):
give Lisa the credit because Lisa is the godmother of
my son alex Um. They I'm really proud of them
because they They're primary objective after they lost their father
was not to allow that to make them angry at
the world, and they have become they were sensitive kind
people before, they're like sensitive, kind and and understanding and
(23:46):
appreciative of life in a way. Now that blows my mind.
And I think it's it's how we all kind of
processed Rob's death. Um, And it's it's something that I
think he would have wanted. And I think it's something
that I do believe he's seeing and feeling and um
that it gives him a lot of pride in peace.
(24:09):
Do you think that? Absolutely? Yeah. I mean your kids,
you have a lot to be proud of with Your
kids are amazing kids. So I wanted to touch just
a little bit on one of the coping tools that
I saw you using, which was workouts. I remember, like,
even when we were sitting Shiva, the only thing that
you would leave the room for was one hour in
(24:33):
your you know, in the downstairs of your apartment building
to work out with your trainer. What kind of impact
do you think that has had for you? Oh? God,
I think it was massive. As a matter of fact,
I just did an event with my trainer, whose name
is Cliff Randall. He's on Instagram by the way, um,
and I introduced him because he was talking about some
fitness myths, which which are fun to talk about. That
(24:55):
I think he really knows his stuff in it. And
before I um started asking him the serious questions, what
I told him was, UM, I've been training with him
for just over two years and through the hardest period
of my life, as you just mentioned. And during that time,
which was only like three or four months after I
had started training with him, when Rob died, it was
(25:17):
the only time I didn't feel numb when I was
physically exercising with him, because he was hurting me so much.
It was but but it was literally find yourself crying
sometimes not when I was working out with him, but
I was, so I was such a zombie at that point.
I was such in a state of shock um for
(25:39):
weeks that I literally just did what he told me
to do. But it was the only time that I
didn't feel numb, and so I thanked him for taking
care of my spirit and my soul as much as
my body during that time. It was also a time,
as you probably remember, Lisa, where I lost nine pounds
in less than two weeks after Rob died, and you're
starting really thin any and I was starting with maybe
(26:01):
only two or three to lose, So it was it
was scary, and it made me appreciate how stress can
affect us, you know, from a physical standpoint as well
as an emotional and spiritual and social standpoint. And for me,
exercise was, you know, literally made all the difference for me.
I remember you said that to me once. When we
(26:23):
come back, I'm going to ask you about what exactly
you said to me. Before their break, we were talking
with Dr Jennifer Ashton about her workouts and how they
are both beneficial for her body and her spirit. And
(26:46):
I remember you saying that when you were going through
a tough time. I think it was when I think
you were having marital issues, but I wasn't aware of
the degree and you were literally driving into the city
from New Jersey to go to Soul Cycle at five
in the morning. I said, are you insane? Why would
you do that? And you said, it is what keeps
me seeing I work out because that is how I process.
(27:10):
And so I think you've been doing this for a
long time. It's been a major coping mechanism for me.
It is definitely how I minimize or deal with stress,
because especially probably in the last ten years of my life,
it's really the only hour of the entire day that's
only for myself. Um, So whether it's soul cycle and
(27:33):
you literally can't bring your phone into that glass, thank goodness,
or it's an hour with my trainer, Cliff, Um, that's
that is it for the day, when it's just about me.
The rest of the day is as we all know,
in a zillion different directions. So it's been very therapeutic
(27:54):
for me. But it's also it also represents in the
time that you were talking about, Lisa, when when I
was really stressed and emotionally not happy. It it gave
back to me as my career, did you know, As
when I put time and attention into my career, I
was rewarded back with a lot of gratification and um
(28:14):
career progress, etcetera, etcetera. When I gave time to my kids,
I was rewarded back with you know, a better relationship
with them. When I put time into my body, I
was rewarded back with feeling good, being healthy, looking good, amazing.
Not anymore because I rely on exercise a lot for sanity. UM.
(28:39):
My kids when they were a little used to say,
we have to we have to go out and run mommy,
like walking the dog. Um. I think they were terrified
of being trapped in the house with me. Everybody didn't
get out there and work it out a little bit.
I don't push myself nearly as hard as you do,
but I'm very regular about it, and um, sometimes I'm
actually afraid of what if I get injured? What if
(29:01):
I can't do these things anymore? And honestly, like, how
am I going to keep this going? If it is
a coping mechanism that I rely on, um, pretty heavily,
Like is it sustainable? So I think probably a lot
of people feel that way. I know I share some
of your thoughts of you know, if I've been sick,
if I've been injured, um, you know what will happen
(29:22):
to a big coping mechanism for me? And I have
had periods in my life where I have had surgery
or been injured or had the flu, and you know,
lost a week or lost more than a week, and
it hasn't been pleasant, but you do get through it.
I think that what's important for a lot of women
and men is that I feel like we're conditioned to
(29:44):
think of this like no pain, no gain, Like you know,
your body should just continue to work well and and
and do what you wanted to do and look how
you wanted to look without pushing your body. Your body
is a smart machine, I believe, and so it needs
to be challenged like your brain needs to be challenge
Like in relationships, you need to challenge yourself. And if
you don't challenge your body, you're going to plateau or
(30:06):
you're gonna go downhill. And I think as we age,
I mean, look at George H. W. Bush. I mean
he was there's you know, longevity, and I'm sure you're
going to do a podcast on that, Chill and Lisa.
But longevity is not an accident when people stay active, um,
because your body really wants that and it needs it
and requires it, and your your mind and your spirit
(30:27):
you two. And I think that's as important. But if
people want to see Cliff torturing me, yeah, going ahead.
You can't go to my Instagram at d r j
ash and and I can't. I get more comments from
people on his workout posts of me getting tortured than
I do, like in my office on Good Morning America.
It's unbelievable, but he knows what he's doing well. Shifting
(30:49):
gears for a second, UM, where we've covered working out
in the physical aspects of that in terms of our health,
mental and physical. I want to talk of nutrition a
little bit because you've written three books that I know of,
dealing with every phase of nutrition from pregnancy to two
young girls too, you know older as we transition into adulthood.
(31:14):
What what do you think is the key to staying
healthy through all those transitions and all those areas and
in terms of um, what we eat and only supplement
and is there something that we should be doing too
well transition? I'll tell you what I've learned when I
got that degree in nutrition and and over the last
couple of years. And I love that my mindset on
(31:35):
this is continuing to evolve, because that is what a
scientific mind does. You don't think like, oh, we know
it all next, you know, that's just not science. Um.
I think that the short answer to your question is
what we all should be doing is avoiding processed foods
and eating from the farm not the factory, and eating
(31:57):
real foods. Now, that's easier said than done, but it
should not be a secret to anyone. In two thousand eighteen,
two thousand nineteen, even you know before then that anything
that has a shelf life and has you know, forty
chemicals on the ingredient list really is not good fuel
for the body. But it just doesn't. So and I'm
(32:19):
not saying never, I'm not whatever, but that as the
as the majority of what we're eating is really I
believe bad for us. Um. The other thing that I
feel really strongly about, because I have to talk about
this all the time on on Good Morning America and
in my office, is oh, what do you think about keto?
What do you think about paleo? What? I'm like, why
do we have to name anything? Just eat sensibly in
(32:41):
with basic parameters and there are different that looks differently
for different people. Um, whether you're vegan, whether you're gluten free,
whether you're vegetarian, pascutarian, blood whatever, Right, but I don't
really care what you call it. I feel like I
feel like in our society we always need to identify
something or label something. By the way, our children are
so against right, like that's just they hate the term labeling,
(33:06):
you know, to box you into something. And I think
that in diet or nutrition it really does a disservice
for people because they can just get bogged down. And
what does that mean? What should I eat? What should
I not eat what you know. And the more complex,
the more it's not difficult, the more interested people sometimes seem,
although they can't stick with it. The first diet you
recommended the hot dog diet or the ice cream ice
(33:28):
cream diet, and then we did this right well after
we did the ice cream, we never did were like,
holy god, I just gain for your grounds. But Jen
was be right before medical school. Right, It's like I
heard of this thing, the ice cream guy, ice cream
all day long and lose weight, right and I and listen.
Another thing I say on the air all the time
is any diet can work short term. The key is
(33:50):
what I call the three s is it has to
be safe, simple, and sustainable. And at the two year mark,
get back to me and let me know how much
weight you've lost, how much you've kept off, or if
you've just prevented weight gain, because most of them fail
at that point because they're not sustainable. So I can't
stand the gimmicks. I can't stand the marketing. I can't
stand like this attitude that this is the holy grill.
(34:12):
There is no one size fits all when it comes
to food and nutrition and eating. Everyone has their own palate,
their own metabolism, their own genetic factors. I couldn't eat
if I ate the way you ate, Lisa, I would
literally weigh two hundred pounds if I did not eat
the way I which is, but I I need a
lot of I need a lot of animal protein. I
(34:32):
wish I didn't, but that's just the way I. You know,
my body is with food. But there you have to
find what works for you. With the caveat that too
much sugar is I believe the single worst thing in
our diet over processed food. So but it's all over
process but it's basic biochemistry. And it's why I got
(34:53):
that degree in nutrition. When you speak to a lot
of nutritionist or dietitians, they'll say, oh, but the whole
grains are so important, and I'll say, it doesn't defy
basic biochemistry. What does it get boiled down to the backbone.
Molecule is sugar, It's a carbohydrate. That's It's either a fat,
a protein, or a carbohydrate. That's it. You don't have
any more choices. Those are the three groups. So you
(35:15):
just have to keep an eye on that in a
big perspective, like a global view, instead of get bogged
down in all of the minutia and the labeling and
the and the fads and the scams, and you could
call it the Ashton diet to eat everything just sensibly
one of the experiments. You do, these experiments on your body.
I love it, and UM like you guys take on
a different challenge, but you do it in a very
(35:37):
intentional and purposeful way, in a public way. And one
of the things you did last year was dry January.
I can't believe you remember. So I'm going to do
it again this this coming. Okay, sister, I think I'm
with you so New Year's Day, you know. And I
can get no hair on the dog. If I can
get my husband on board with it, well that's the
cagill is. Do it with someone and it's not your husband.
(35:59):
Made will feel too sorry for myself if I watched
him open a beer every night at Yeah, yeah, I
mean doing it with someone an accountability partner definitely helps. Um,
But I was I was stunned at the response last year,
you know, I announced it on the air on Good
Morning America Live with Robin Roberts. Last year, social media exploded.
(36:20):
We did a Facebook live that got over four hundred
thousand views in twenty four hours for g m A,
which is unheard of, and people were really on board.
They wanted to challenge themselves. And I should say, this
is not about abstinence, this is not about sobriety, this
is not for that purpose. Okay, that's completely different. It's
not if you have an issue with that. It's it's
an experience. Yeah, and that's right, and I do what's
(36:42):
the philosophy behind doing it? That a mental challenge and
a physical challenge, So I call it the experiment it self.
I wanted to see if I missed it. I wanted
to see if I look different, felt different, if my
skin look different, if I lost a pound or two,
if it affected my appetite, if it affected my social everything.
And it was really cool. And I will say that
(37:03):
right when I started it, I was at my daughter,
Chloe's ice hockey game and my brother was there, who's
also a doctor, and I said, um, I announced to
the table. You know, after the game, we went to
a great Italian restaurant and everyone was ordering wine or
prosecco and I said, oh, I'm doing a dry month,
and my brother Evans, said why, and then I said, well,
you know, I just I've never done one. Last time,
(37:23):
I you know, didn't drink alcohol. I was pregnant. Um,
and he goes, oh, that's interesting, I'm doing a wet month,
and then he ordered cover rosecco. But I think that
it was if it's too intimidating. Do you start with
a week and see how you feel and then keep
it going or do you need to make that commitment
and like double downance. I'm doing this for I think.
(37:44):
I mean, I want to say that thirty days is
reasonable for anyone who doesn't have an issue with alcohol,
a dependence or abuse issue. Um, I think that. I mean,
when you think about it, for most women, they find
out they're pregnant and it stops dead in its tracks
for nine months, and most women have no problem with that.
I missed it so much, did you I missed it
(38:06):
every day? Yeah? Yeah, But I think I'm not doing
low tolerance for alcohol. I absolutely love it, but I
have a really low tolerance. So I've kind of got
a built in break for me. Um. You know, I
kind of like to drinks. Yeah, that's my motto is
two and through. Can you do it with other things
besides alcohol? Giving up? Yeah? Of course challenge. So my
(38:28):
my book on a year of Little wellness Challenges is
coming out January of I'll come back on the show
and talk about it. But I do all of these
little challenges. Some of them are what you're eating or drinking.
Some of them are what we're doing. You'll you, guys
will what are you doing right? This? Humor? Humor? So
if you live in Manhattan, you look for me because
(38:50):
my my challenge is to wear a like Dime Store
Girls toy tiara in public for ten minutes, to live
like lighten the mood because I feel like you can't
take anything seriously when you see a grown woman wearing
a t R on the street and it's working. It's fun.
It's fun. Oh well, it's been wonderful having you. We're laughing,
(39:10):
having happy to see you. I don't know why I
didn't bring it with me, because I'm gonna bring it
next time. Jen, thank you so much, Thanks for having me, guys,
thanks for being here and everybody. If you want to
see and hear more from Dr Jennifer Ashton, She's at
Dr j Ashton on Twitter and Instagram and connect with
(39:31):
us here at You Turns Podcast.
When I was really stressed and emotionally not happy. It
gave back to me as my career did. When I
gave time to my kids, I was rewarded back with
a better relationship with them. When I put time into
my body, I was rewarded back with feeling good, being healthy,
looking good, amazing not anymore. Hey, welcome to you Turns.
(00:34):
I am Lisa Os and I am Jelfersick, and you're
a podcast all about change that we are. So one
of the drivers have changed is your body. And your
body just goes through stuff, and you know you can
kind of be dragged around behind those physical changes or
I think we've seen that you can kind of drive
(00:55):
change yourself. And one of the things I feel like
I learned from you, Lisa all the time, is to
treat your body as a bit of an experiment. I
mean as well, um, your lovely doctor husband is always
seems to be experimented himself. Both of you do, and
it's kind of made me braver about doing it. Well,
if we're talking about like going off to acro yoga
(01:16):
or like, you know, what was do we do together?
The freezing thing that grows the Jesus oide of ourselves
and yeah, a shade of red for hours afterwards that
I've never seen before since. Well, yeah, I'm I literally
am up for anything, um and one of my partners
(01:36):
in crime and inspirations, and you know, for me it's
also it's like just struggling against the whole aging thing
and um, so many issues. But one of my favorite
people to talk to about all things, um, body issue
is Dr Jennifer Ashton, who is joining us here today.
She is the ABC News Chief medical correspondent and more importantly,
(02:02):
the godmother of my daughter's oh age. And thanks so
much for being It's so good to be here with
you guys. Yes, that is my most important title. Um.
Can we talk about body image of it and aging
and just how we as because we are women of
a certain age. I guess once you hit like forty, Um,
how do you deal with that in media, in life
(02:24):
with your patients? What? What is that? First of all,
I deal with it literally every day in all three
of those fears, which gives me a really interesting perspective
that I am always um, repositioning myself from those different
vantage points and viewpoints to try and process it myself
(02:46):
and process it with and for literally millions of other women.
So what what do you want to start with? Myself,
my medical offers, my patients, media. I mean, it's they're
so much. I mean, you know, I think one of
the things we were curious about is how much do
you struggle against it personally? Personally and how much do
you are like all out war? I mean, you know what,
(03:07):
I kind of vacillate between two, um, two positions. There
are times and I don't think this is equally split. Unfortunately,
right now this is probably in the minority where I
will see someone either my own age or considerably older,
and I just the person who pops into my mind.
(03:27):
Well two people actually, um, Jamie Lee Curtis and Dame
Helen Mirren. I mean those women make me literally not
afraid of aging. Um. I think they encapsulate the best spirit,
the best mind, body image, the best elegance and grace.
I personally think it looks bizarre when women, you know,
(03:49):
they're of a certain age because of everything else they've
achieved in their life, like their kids or their grandkids
or whatever, and they're trying to walk around looking or
acting thirty years younger. I think that's bizarre on many levels.
So I definitely know I don't want that. That's just concerning. Yeah,
it's just jarring. It shakes your you know, your sense
(04:11):
of what's right with the world exactly look at people
and think, Okay, I'm doing an uneasy feeling and I
don't know what that's wrong, right, right, And so when
I I definitely know I don't want that. And there
are sometimes I think that if there were no mirrors,
I would be totally fine with the aging process. Um
and then oh my god, such a wonder time angle
(04:35):
right up your nose the neck and the neck and
the jaw and the chin. But but anyway, filters fix that,
I mean filter I'm working on designing one, but that's
right totally. But I also, whenever I kind of am
struggling with my own issues with this, I realize the
(04:57):
alternative and it's kind of the comic leaf and it
comes medically, of course, But what is the alternative? Not aging?
So then that's right, So then you're dead? Um? So no,
no things? Uh so, yeah, I mean I see it.
I see it in myself. I deal with it in
myself every day. Um, and I deal with it literally
with my patients. Would you tell your patients that a
(05:21):
I'm going through the same stuff they're going through. Um,
because I really can't stand, you know, this kind of
societal or cultural you know push back where people say, oh,
just embrace it all, and you know that's us, right, No,
no one, No one wants to embrace the neck or
the wrinkles or the weight or anything, right right, yeah, yeah,
(05:41):
no one. So I kind of tell them that, yes,
I know what they're talking about, and then I try
to put it into medical perspective, which for women, I
literally think starting around age forty, but powerfully after fifty
you really do what was it? Sophia round And said
you have to choose between your tush and your face.
(06:02):
That literally is true. So you just keep eating. I mean,
you know, but but when they say you know the way,
the way, the weight, I'll say, do you want your
face to look caved in and ten years older? Because
that will happen for sure if and then they know
that that's true, and we kind of try to come
to a like we all agree that there's no great
(06:23):
answer to this moment and hug each other and go on.
And I also think so philor And said, everything you
see I owe to spaghetti. So maybe that's one way
to choose. They just know how to live, they know
how to age. So if your if your patients come
to you and they ask for anti aging advice, both
both health in terms of keeping themselves vital and strong,
(06:44):
but also in terms of aesthetics, like how do I
not look like I'm heading towards the crowst Okay, I'll
give you. I'll give you my bulleted answers. And this
is what I say both to my patients and I
say it on the air. Um. Number one, you can't
out plastic surgery or out dermatology, bad eating, bad rest,
(07:05):
and bad fitness. You can't, though, that is the trifecta
of health. You know this. We've been living this and
talking about it for literally twenty five plus years. If
you don't focus on those three areas getting good sleep,
getting proper fuel and nutrition, and getting the right fitness
and activity, you're not gonna look good and you're not
going to feel good. That's just a fact. Um. The
(07:27):
second thing is is that I think the best you know,
my dermatologist is on speed dial, and I I really
do believe in preventative and maintenance and things like that.
But I think that there's obviously a line that you
can cross, and I think the natural look. I don't
want to erase all wrinkles from my face. I mean,
(07:48):
you know, I'm forty nine years old, so if I
didn't have wrinkles, there would be something weird going on.
But I want to look really good for forty nine.
That doesn't mean looking twenty nine. I just want to
look the best I can look for platy nine. So
I think that kind of natural approach is really good.
And then I'm really open with I fully plan to
have some kind of plastic surgery at some point, whether
(08:10):
it's a neck, a face, or whatever, because I like
that look better than a lot of the injectibles. That's personal,
I mean. And the last thing I think is personally
you know, as you know, Lisa, my brother is a
reconstructive plastic surgeon sadly doesn't do any cosmetics. But I've
learned a lot from him, which is that um as
(08:32):
we age a lot of what we don't like, possibly
about our face and neck. Um as women and men,
I might add, um I think is really better corrected
surgically with plastic surgery rather than with the less invasive
kind of injectables, fillers, etcetera, etcetera, because to me, surgery
gives a more natural um appearance. But again, it's all
(08:56):
about being the best you can look, not looking like
someone else. Okay, So since we're talking about looking better
and feeling better, Jill had told me about something that
she was curious about that you do. Okay, so I
was researching you and um, I mean and loving your
(09:16):
the medical practice that the sort of thinking behind it
treats women, treats every patient like they're a very important person.
It sounds so luxurious and spot like. And then there's
something that you really push called, I think theirmiva. I'm
so glad that because I'm not afraid to say the
word vagina, vagina, Thank god, we can say that your vagina.
(09:37):
It's a laser and it go. Okay, lasers and vaginas.
To me, I feel like, there's not exactly laser. But
how much time do we have? I love? Have you
done it? Yes? Seriously, I would never recommend anything to
my patients that I wouldn't be willing to do or
have tried my body as an experiment totally. So here's
(09:58):
what their amiva is. First of all, it is off label.
So of course, like many things we do in medicine today,
it is not FDA approved. You have not calmed me.
I should because when I tell you the litany of
things that we do every day that are off label,
it's more things are off label in traditional Western medicine
(10:18):
than they are f d A approved for one indication,
that's just a fact. What's it for? Really, it's for
skin tightening. So when I when I got the machine,
I wanted the full body probe that could tighten skin everywhere.
But it is actually non ablative radio frequency energy. So
what does that mean. It doesn't cause a burn, there's
(10:41):
no anesthesia, there's no downtime, and so no pain, no downtime,
no anesthesia. It's a procedure that takes eighteen minutes. The probe,
which goes inside the vagina is the width of an
index finger, a woman's index finger. I should say, okay um.
And what that radio frequency does is it stimulates new collagen.
(11:03):
So here are the things that is being used for
in the world of gynecology. Vaginal dryness at any age,
vaginal laxity at any age. So I've done this on
women doctors after they've had babies. I've done this on
women literally from seven to sixty seven, and it's done
for sagging external skin, genital skin, which is by far
(11:26):
from my practice. The minority of the people don't really care.
Not people saying I want to porn star. But you
know this is internal so that for sensation, lubrication, tightness,
and it is phenomenal for overactive bladder, which is very
common as women age for a number of reasons. So
can we go do this too? You know, like the
cry Oh you want to go adventure with a little
(11:48):
rob in like a double room and I can be
holding your hand in you can bet my head in
the same room. Yeah, totally. No, you don't listen. I've
people like on their phones watching TV. We're talking as
I mean it is. And I really was so curious
because I mean, I can say anything on this podcast, right.
(12:09):
I have a patient who's fifty one, so perimenopausal by definition.
She texted me after her third treatment, because you're supposed
to do three one month apart, and she said, something
just happened. It's a little disgusting. I said, I'm a gynecologist. Really,
it's impossible to out and she goes, I just squirted
(12:31):
while I was having some she goes. I didn't even
know that was possible, and I attributed all to the thermibia.
And at that point I called my nurse and I said,
you've been watching me do this procedure for two years.
You're going to try it out on me. That's what
got you on the well, I mean, and and other
women saying we have to change the sheets after we
have straight up hasn't made your sex life much better? Yeah,
(12:53):
I mean an immediate difference. It was I will tell
you that. My nurse when she said, but Jen, you
don't have a problem, why are you doing it? I said,
preventative a UM, I really did not have an issue before.
But it has made it even better. And my boyfriend
noticed a difference. Spouses are noticing differences. They're feeling like
more tightness than anybody ever say, okay, you want a
(13:17):
little too far hurts two sense of its hurting. I've
had two patients in three years who really didn't feel
like they got too much of a response. But that's
over several hundred, so the the individual response will vary
like anything else. But it's really amazing. And I want
to say because this was actually in the news the
FDA started to look into all these vaginal quote unquote
(13:37):
rejuvenation procedures as well. They should Yeah, well, yes and no.
I think it's disturbing that the FDA is looking into
it after it's been going on for ten years. Number one,
But anything having to do with a woman takes a
back door kind of you know, backseat, and I think
that they're finding they want to make sure that it's
not causing more damage than benefit, which is appropriate. Um.
(13:59):
And there are a lot of different procedures out there,
so women should definitely do their research, but this is
the one that I've been using for three years that
I've found the results amazing and it's about time women
have some more options. Okay, when we come back where
I get I'll take a little deeper, an deeper jee,
all right, we're gonna talk about you turns when we
come back. Let's do it on this podcast. We like
(14:28):
to explore personal changes, um, you turns we call them,
and how we navigate those in the most productive way.
What I've noticed with you, which is kind of unique.
I think people say people when people have a U turn,
it's usually a shift in direction, so they go from
like being a full time mom to being an emptynister,
from being working full time like like um Jill has
(14:50):
been doing to not being a period of like transition
or married to divorced. You have this way of like
just not even changing direction but expanding your road, which
is kind of unique. So you, as I've known you,
You've gone from being like uh med school doctor and
then suddenly because what you do, you do fully so
(15:12):
it could be a full time drum off, so doctor
to mom and doctor to medical expert and mom and doctor.
And I just don't know how you do know your
full time media, full time practice, you have these incredible kids,
how do you just like keep expanding your road. So,
first of all, I'm so I feel so blessed to
(15:36):
have the twenty five years of friendship and like sisterhood
with you, Lisa, and and I feel like you have
a unique perspective on my life because you have. I mean,
you've known me for so long before I was a mom,
before I was a doctor, before I was a medical correspondent.
But I think I think that the way and I
(15:57):
do agree with you, it's it's gotten wider that you
don't give up any of the right, And I think
that's the reason for that is that I really everything
I do is authentic to who I am, and I
don't do anything that I don't fully love and get
really excited about. But I also don't feel like I
(16:18):
have to switch gears from one quote unquote role or
job to another, because I feel like they're all They're
all the authentic me, and so it's just about, you know,
what environment am I in at any given time to
be doing any of them, But it's kind of all
the same. Jen Ashton Um. I also think something that
(16:41):
I've been inspired a lot by you is and I
think this is pretty common around midlife, especially for women,
that you do start to wonder should I try something else,
or should I do this, or should I take advantage
of this opportunity, or you know, getting out of your
comfort zone, which for me personally, in the last five
years I've done um, which I'm happy to talk about.
(17:05):
But I think that when you are faced with those
kind of opportunities, they don't always come banging down your door.
Sometimes they're whispering, you know, behind your shoulder. Sometimes they're
just scratching at your door. Sometimes they're vigorously knocking, and
you're trying to ignore the knocking. But I think that
if you're not open to trying new things or to
(17:27):
expanding your U turn as you describe it with me,
then you can miss out on a lot of really
impactful and fun, uh and profound experiences. Does that make sense?
It absolutely does. But you also teased us with those
things that didn't mention, so okay, well one of them,
one of them, to start kind of more on the superficial,
(17:49):
like easier stuff to talk about, was academic and professional.
And that was when I got my master's in nutrition,
which I remember telling you about and you said, why
you don't you already know a lot about about that?
And I said, yeah, but you know, I'm such an
academic geek and I like those initials after my name,
and you know whatever. So I went back to Columbia
to get a master's in nutrition and it took three years,
(18:09):
and it was brutal. It was really really hard because
I was, you know, committing a weekend a month for
two and a half years to this. I mean, it's legit,
and it was hardcore. UM as a master's from an
Ivy League university should be. UM, But I loved it
because it did force me to literally go back to
school to learn to do work. I had to do
(18:31):
my own master's thesis UM research and I learned a
lot and I'm glad I did that. And I didn't
realize as I was doing it that in the process
I was teaching my children, who were then in high
school that, see, the learning never stops. It's never too
late to go back to school. Um. And it wounded,
It's okay to struggle. Yeah, and it came out to
like it, I mean, UM. So I think that that
(18:55):
was massive for them and for me as a mom.
For me as a doctor, it enriched what I can
talk about with my patients. It's enriched the credibility that
I have when I talk about diets and nutrition on
Good Morning America. So that was major. At around the
same time, my marriage was ending and it was a
mutual agreement and it was very evolved as I as
(19:18):
I like to put it, and it was um amicable.
But that was one of the largest life stressors and
life changes. No one goes into marriage planning for that, uh,
and I had been married twenty two years, so that
was scary and it was sad and it was painful
on so many levels. And it wasn't until I kind
(19:41):
of started coming through that process with the support you know,
of a very few people, actually, because I felt so
self conscious to go and talk to other people who
normally see me with like my ship really together and
admit failure, admit weakness, admit vulnerability and all those things.
(20:02):
So I really kept it inside, you know, for the
most part. And it wasn't until I found an amazing
therapist and you know, really was helped through the process
by one of my oldest friends from high school that
I started to come through it. And then, as many
people know, unfortunately because it was a national news story, um,
the father of my children and the person I had
been married to for twenty two years, Uh committed suicide
(20:25):
two weeks after our divorce was final, and UM that
was that literally shattered me into a million pieces. So
it was not until I had to put those pieces
back together, largely for the sake of my children, that
I really put all the dots together and connected all
(20:48):
the dots on everything I had just been through and
realized that failure to accept your own vulnerability and be
able to sit in those difficult times with yourself and
with pain and with doubt, and with anger and with fear.
I believe that's what took Rob's life, no differently than
(21:09):
a disease like cancer. He was never able to be
okay with those lows or the highs of life, so
he wanted to live in the middle. And you can't
live life in the middle. You know one of my
patients who's a PhD, she has two PhDs. She's an
incredible person. Her name is Dr Brenda Brown. She's seventy
five years old. And when Rob died, she came to
(21:32):
me in my office a couple of weeks later, when
I went back to work after two weeks, and she said, Jen,
life is not about avoiding pain. No one can get
through life with no pain. Life is about processing that pain,
learning how to live through it, and then continuing to live.
(21:52):
And I'll never forget those words, because I had basically
tried to get through life without acknowledging any failure, any pain,
any weakness. And for the most part, that was a
good coping mechanism because I set the bar so high
and most of the right as it as it often does,
(22:14):
that's right. But um, it wasn't until I literally had
no choice but to say, oh, things are not all perfect.
I'm in a lot of pain. I felt on many
many levels that I had failed in the most primary
responsibility a parent has, which is to protect their children
from pain. And I felt I had obviously failed at that.
(22:37):
And um, have you have you changed in your belief
that that's that's the primary responsibility? Jill, it's I'm so
glad you asked that, because, I mean, the answer is yes,
because in many ways, you know how when you speak
to someone who's been through cancer or an accident or
(22:58):
in your death experience, they say, oh, this taught me
how to live. I think that Rob's death taught me
and my children how to live in a way that
we unfortunately didn't know before that happened. So as a result,
the one, the one good thing I can say is that,
especially for my children, who you know now, I should
(23:22):
give Lisa the credit because Lisa is the godmother of
my son alex Um. They I'm really proud of them
because they They're primary objective after they lost their father
was not to allow that to make them angry at
the world, and they have become they were sensitive kind
people before, they're like sensitive, kind and and understanding and
(23:46):
appreciative of life in a way. Now that blows my mind.
And I think it's it's how we all kind of
processed Rob's death. Um, And it's it's something that I
think he would have wanted. And I think it's something
that I do believe he's seeing and feeling and um
that it gives him a lot of pride in peace.
(24:09):
Do you think that? Absolutely? Yeah. I mean your kids,
you have a lot to be proud of with Your
kids are amazing kids. So I wanted to touch just
a little bit on one of the coping tools that
I saw you using, which was workouts. I remember, like,
even when we were sitting Shiva, the only thing that
you would leave the room for was one hour in
(24:33):
your you know, in the downstairs of your apartment building
to work out with your trainer. What kind of impact
do you think that has had for you? Oh? God,
I think it was massive. As a matter of fact,
I just did an event with my trainer, whose name
is Cliff Randall. He's on Instagram by the way, um,
and I introduced him because he was talking about some
fitness myths, which which are fun to talk about. That
(24:55):
I think he really knows his stuff in it. And
before I um started asking him the serious questions, what
I told him was, UM, I've been training with him
for just over two years and through the hardest period
of my life, as you just mentioned. And during that time,
which was only like three or four months after I
had started training with him, when Rob died, it was
(25:17):
the only time I didn't feel numb when I was
physically exercising with him, because he was hurting me so much.
It was but but it was literally find yourself crying
sometimes not when I was working out with him, but
I was, so I was such a zombie at that point.
I was such in a state of shock um for
(25:39):
weeks that I literally just did what he told me
to do. But it was the only time that I
didn't feel numb, and so I thanked him for taking
care of my spirit and my soul as much as
my body during that time. It was also a time,
as you probably remember, Lisa, where I lost nine pounds
in less than two weeks after Rob died, and you're
starting really thin any and I was starting with maybe
(26:01):
only two or three to lose, So it was it
was scary, and it made me appreciate how stress can
affect us, you know, from a physical standpoint as well
as an emotional and spiritual and social standpoint. And for me,
exercise was, you know, literally made all the difference for me.
I remember you said that to me once. When we
(26:23):
come back, I'm going to ask you about what exactly
you said to me. Before their break, we were talking
with Dr Jennifer Ashton about her workouts and how they
are both beneficial for her body and her spirit. And
(26:46):
I remember you saying that when you were going through
a tough time. I think it was when I think
you were having marital issues, but I wasn't aware of
the degree and you were literally driving into the city
from New Jersey to go to Soul Cycle at five
in the morning. I said, are you insane? Why would
you do that? And you said, it is what keeps
me seeing I work out because that is how I process.
(27:10):
And so I think you've been doing this for a
long time. It's been a major coping mechanism for me.
It is definitely how I minimize or deal with stress,
because especially probably in the last ten years of my life,
it's really the only hour of the entire day that's
only for myself. Um, So whether it's soul cycle and
(27:33):
you literally can't bring your phone into that glass, thank goodness,
or it's an hour with my trainer, Cliff, Um, that's
that is it for the day, when it's just about me.
The rest of the day is as we all know,
in a zillion different directions. So it's been very therapeutic
(27:54):
for me. But it's also it also represents in the
time that you were talking about, Lisa, when when I
was really stressed and emotionally not happy. It it gave
back to me as my career, did you know, As
when I put time and attention into my career, I
was rewarded back with a lot of gratification and um
(28:14):
career progress, etcetera, etcetera. When I gave time to my kids,
I was rewarded back with you know, a better relationship
with them. When I put time into my body, I
was rewarded back with feeling good, being healthy, looking good, amazing.
Not anymore because I rely on exercise a lot for sanity. UM.
(28:39):
My kids when they were a little used to say,
we have to we have to go out and run mommy,
like walking the dog. Um. I think they were terrified
of being trapped in the house with me. Everybody didn't
get out there and work it out a little bit.
I don't push myself nearly as hard as you do,
but I'm very regular about it, and um, sometimes I'm
actually afraid of what if I get injured? What if
(29:01):
I can't do these things anymore? And honestly, like, how
am I going to keep this going? If it is
a coping mechanism that I rely on, um, pretty heavily,
Like is it sustainable? So I think probably a lot
of people feel that way. I know I share some
of your thoughts of you know, if I've been sick,
if I've been injured, um, you know what will happen
(29:22):
to a big coping mechanism for me? And I have
had periods in my life where I have had surgery
or been injured or had the flu, and you know,
lost a week or lost more than a week, and
it hasn't been pleasant, but you do get through it.
I think that what's important for a lot of women
and men is that I feel like we're conditioned to
(29:44):
think of this like no pain, no gain, Like you know,
your body should just continue to work well and and
and do what you wanted to do and look how
you wanted to look without pushing your body. Your body
is a smart machine, I believe, and so it needs
to be challenged like your brain needs to be challenge
Like in relationships, you need to challenge yourself. And if
you don't challenge your body, you're going to plateau or
(30:06):
you're gonna go downhill. And I think as we age,
I mean, look at George H. W. Bush. I mean
he was there's you know, longevity, and I'm sure you're
going to do a podcast on that, Chill and Lisa.
But longevity is not an accident when people stay active, um,
because your body really wants that and it needs it
and requires it, and your your mind and your spirit
(30:27):
you two. And I think that's as important. But if
people want to see Cliff torturing me, yeah, going ahead.
You can't go to my Instagram at d r j
ash and and I can't. I get more comments from
people on his workout posts of me getting tortured than
I do, like in my office on Good Morning America.
It's unbelievable, but he knows what he's doing well. Shifting
(30:49):
gears for a second, UM, where we've covered working out
in the physical aspects of that in terms of our health,
mental and physical. I want to talk of nutrition a
little bit because you've written three books that I know of,
dealing with every phase of nutrition from pregnancy to two
young girls too, you know older as we transition into adulthood.
(31:14):
What what do you think is the key to staying
healthy through all those transitions and all those areas and
in terms of um, what we eat and only supplement
and is there something that we should be doing too
well transition? I'll tell you what I've learned when I
got that degree in nutrition and and over the last
couple of years. And I love that my mindset on
(31:35):
this is continuing to evolve, because that is what a
scientific mind does. You don't think like, oh, we know
it all next, you know, that's just not science. Um.
I think that the short answer to your question is
what we all should be doing is avoiding processed foods
and eating from the farm not the factory, and eating
(31:57):
real foods. Now, that's easier said than done, but it
should not be a secret to anyone. In two thousand eighteen,
two thousand nineteen, even you know before then that anything
that has a shelf life and has you know, forty
chemicals on the ingredient list really is not good fuel
for the body. But it just doesn't. So and I'm
(32:19):
not saying never, I'm not whatever, but that as the
as the majority of what we're eating is really I
believe bad for us. Um. The other thing that I
feel really strongly about, because I have to talk about
this all the time on on Good Morning America and
in my office, is oh, what do you think about keto?
What do you think about paleo? What? I'm like, why
do we have to name anything? Just eat sensibly in
(32:41):
with basic parameters and there are different that looks differently
for different people. Um, whether you're vegan, whether you're gluten free,
whether you're vegetarian, pascutarian, blood whatever, Right, but I don't
really care what you call it. I feel like I
feel like in our society we always need to identify
something or label something. By the way, our children are
so against right, like that's just they hate the term labeling,
(33:06):
you know, to box you into something. And I think
that in diet or nutrition it really does a disservice
for people because they can just get bogged down. And
what does that mean? What should I eat? What should
I not eat what you know. And the more complex,
the more it's not difficult, the more interested people sometimes seem,
although they can't stick with it. The first diet you
recommended the hot dog diet or the ice cream ice
(33:28):
cream diet, and then we did this right well after
we did the ice cream, we never did were like,
holy god, I just gain for your grounds. But Jen
was be right before medical school. Right, It's like I
heard of this thing, the ice cream guy, ice cream
all day long and lose weight, right and I and listen.
Another thing I say on the air all the time
is any diet can work short term. The key is
(33:50):
what I call the three s is it has to
be safe, simple, and sustainable. And at the two year mark,
get back to me and let me know how much
weight you've lost, how much you've kept off, or if
you've just prevented weight gain, because most of them fail
at that point because they're not sustainable. So I can't
stand the gimmicks. I can't stand the marketing. I can't
stand like this attitude that this is the holy grill.
(34:12):
There is no one size fits all when it comes
to food and nutrition and eating. Everyone has their own palate,
their own metabolism, their own genetic factors. I couldn't eat
if I ate the way you ate, Lisa, I would
literally weigh two hundred pounds if I did not eat
the way I which is, but I I need a
lot of I need a lot of animal protein. I
(34:32):
wish I didn't, but that's just the way I. You know,
my body is with food. But there you have to
find what works for you. With the caveat that too
much sugar is I believe the single worst thing in
our diet over processed food. So but it's all over
process but it's basic biochemistry. And it's why I got
(34:53):
that degree in nutrition. When you speak to a lot
of nutritionist or dietitians, they'll say, oh, but the whole
grains are so important, and I'll say, it doesn't defy
basic biochemistry. What does it get boiled down to the backbone.
Molecule is sugar, It's a carbohydrate. That's It's either a fat,
a protein, or a carbohydrate. That's it. You don't have
any more choices. Those are the three groups. So you
(35:15):
just have to keep an eye on that in a
big perspective, like a global view, instead of get bogged
down in all of the minutia and the labeling and
the and the fads and the scams, and you could
call it the Ashton diet to eat everything just sensibly
one of the experiments. You do, these experiments on your body.
I love it, and UM like you guys take on
a different challenge, but you do it in a very
(35:37):
intentional and purposeful way, in a public way. And one
of the things you did last year was dry January.
I can't believe you remember. So I'm going to do
it again this this coming. Okay, sister, I think I'm
with you so New Year's Day, you know. And I
can get no hair on the dog. If I can
get my husband on board with it, well that's the
cagill is. Do it with someone and it's not your husband.
(35:59):
Made will feel too sorry for myself if I watched
him open a beer every night at Yeah, yeah, I
mean doing it with someone an accountability partner definitely helps. Um,
But I was I was stunned at the response last year,
you know, I announced it on the air on Good
Morning America Live with Robin Roberts. Last year, social media exploded.
(36:20):
We did a Facebook live that got over four hundred
thousand views in twenty four hours for g m A,
which is unheard of, and people were really on board.
They wanted to challenge themselves. And I should say, this
is not about abstinence, this is not about sobriety, this
is not for that purpose. Okay, that's completely different. It's
not if you have an issue with that. It's it's
an experience. Yeah, and that's right, and I do what's
(36:42):
the philosophy behind doing it? That a mental challenge and
a physical challenge, So I call it the experiment it self.
I wanted to see if I missed it. I wanted
to see if I look different, felt different, if my
skin look different, if I lost a pound or two,
if it affected my appetite, if it affected my social everything.
And it was really cool. And I will say that
(37:03):
right when I started it, I was at my daughter,
Chloe's ice hockey game and my brother was there, who's
also a doctor, and I said, um, I announced to
the table. You know, after the game, we went to
a great Italian restaurant and everyone was ordering wine or
prosecco and I said, oh, I'm doing a dry month,
and my brother Evans, said why, and then I said, well,
you know, I just I've never done one. Last time,
(37:23):
I you know, didn't drink alcohol. I was pregnant. Um,
and he goes, oh, that's interesting, I'm doing a wet month,
and then he ordered cover rosecco. But I think that
it was if it's too intimidating. Do you start with
a week and see how you feel and then keep
it going or do you need to make that commitment
and like double downance. I'm doing this for I think.
(37:44):
I mean, I want to say that thirty days is
reasonable for anyone who doesn't have an issue with alcohol,
a dependence or abuse issue. Um, I think that. I mean,
when you think about it, for most women, they find
out they're pregnant and it stops dead in its tracks
for nine months, and most women have no problem with that.
I missed it so much, did you I missed it
(38:06):
every day? Yeah? Yeah, But I think I'm not doing
low tolerance for alcohol. I absolutely love it, but I
have a really low tolerance. So I've kind of got
a built in break for me. Um. You know, I
kind of like to drinks. Yeah, that's my motto is
two and through. Can you do it with other things
besides alcohol? Giving up? Yeah? Of course challenge. So my
(38:28):
my book on a year of Little wellness Challenges is
coming out January of I'll come back on the show
and talk about it. But I do all of these
little challenges. Some of them are what you're eating or drinking.
Some of them are what we're doing. You'll you, guys
will what are you doing right? This? Humor? Humor? So
if you live in Manhattan, you look for me because
(38:50):
my my challenge is to wear a like Dime Store
Girls toy tiara in public for ten minutes, to live
like lighten the mood because I feel like you can't
take anything seriously when you see a grown woman wearing
a t R on the street and it's working. It's fun.
It's fun. Oh well, it's been wonderful having you. We're laughing,
(39:10):
having happy to see you. I don't know why I
didn't bring it with me, because I'm gonna bring it
next time. Jen, thank you so much, Thanks for having me, guys,
thanks for being here and everybody. If you want to
see and hear more from Dr Jennifer Ashton, She's at
Dr j Ashton on Twitter and Instagram and connect with
(39:31):
us here at You Turns Podcast.
Road to Somewhere News
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Jill Herzig
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