March 11, 2020 • 35 mins
In times of transition, we often look to our partners to help us navigate the unexpected or the unfamiliar. But as life shifts, and we try to grow through the changes, we may sometimes ask our partners to fulfill us in ways that are not fair. Monica Berg, self-proclaimed “Change Junkie,” and author of Rethink Love, channels years of Kabbalistic study and lessons from her own life experiences, into advice on how to ensure our relationships get the care they need to grow through transition too. Connect with Monica Berg at rethinklife.today.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You can arrive at a space where you are met
with vulnerability. First you have to be vulnerable, and your
partner needs to meet you in that space because being
vulnerable people don't like that lord it has a bad rap.
I love that word. I think that being vulnerable is
writing on your own terms, saying this is who I am,
and not being afraid to be seen. The biggest fear
that people bring into the relationships is to really be seen,
(00:20):
because if they see something about me that they didn't
see it before, maybe they won't want to be with me.
Thanks for joining us on the road to somewhere. Where
we talk about exploration, adventure, major life change and transformation
is about not necessarily knowing where we're going, but having
(00:42):
faith that the journey will be worthwhile. I'm Lisa Oz
and I am Jill Herzeg And one of the things
that two of us have in common is that we
both met our husbands when we were practically children, and
they were practically children. In my case, I was I
was six when I met my husband. We did not
start dating. I know that would be we did not
start dating until early in college. But we've both been
(01:04):
in crazy long term extra long term relationships. And it's
funny to think about love in general and how my
sense of what love is built up over time. And
I think maybe with mement yours is the same thing.
Like you almost raised each other. Yeah, and we certainly
(01:28):
both grew up a lot, but yeah, it's we. You
and I have a kind of similar perspective on relationship.
And it's sort of hard having that. It's like a
tree that grows with the rings, you know, it's hard
to shake that up and get a new perspective on
love when you've been with the same person for such
a really, really, really long time. Suggesting that we have affairs, honey, No,
(01:56):
that's not what's happening here. Mem it. No, don't come
after me the butcher. No, but our guest today is
actually going to help us with understanding I think relationships, um,
at least the marriage relationship, and I think a deeper
and broader way um. Our guest today is self proclaimed
change junkie who inspires people to get excited about a
(02:17):
lifestyle of change. Her newest book, Rethink Love, Three Steps
to Being the One, Attracting the One, and Becoming One.
We are joined by Monica Borg. Monica, thank you so
much for being here today, thank you for having me.
So just in reading that title, I have to ask,
do you think there's only one people are always talking
(02:39):
about she's the one? But do you think maybe if
you don't connect with that single person in all seven
billion people, you're destined to be alone for your all life?
Or do you think maybe we're struggling in the relationship
with the person you do isn't the one. I think
that it was a whole chapter on soulmates. They think
very often people question the relationship did they marry the
(03:00):
right personally with the right person. If they don't know
for sure, it's their soul made and it's such an
open ended topic and idea. I think we have many
soul connections. I think that you can have a soul
may relationship really with anybody, depending on how you are
in the relationship. I believe in elevating love, which requires
elevating consciousness. And when you're in a conscious relationship where
(03:21):
you're growing together side by side and you check each other,
you're you're each other's mirrors, then I think that is
as close to a soul may relationship as it gets.
Because your soul is constantly growing and expanding. So is
your curiosity and so is your joy. I love that. Yes,
I did too, absolutely so. One of the things I
thought was interesting in your book was the idea that
(03:43):
there is no such thing as a stable marriage, and
maybe it's not even a goal. Correct. Um. I call
myself a change junkie. I have this necklace UM that
says change as a reminder. And I think very often
people go through life trying to feel very certain secure.
I think as human beings, we all crave that. It's
something that is part of our nature. You know, when
(04:06):
we grew up, we're constantly looking for that that soft
space of nurture and security. Um. And here's the trick.
We are always changing. As we're sitting here. There's something
in our bodies or minds physiologically happening that is changing.
And so most people fear changed because they think that
indicates that there's something wrong with them. I'm actually doing
a workshop this week with couples to work on some
(04:29):
of the workshops in the book. I want to have
case studies. I want to follow them. I want to
see how once they've applied this really watch it come
to life. And UM, I suggested to this couple. I know,
you know, I think you'd be great for this, And
they said, why you are you worried about it? You
can there's something wrong with our relationship. And I said,
and I say to my book to the relationships that
work are the ones we work on. So when people
(04:50):
think that, okay, great, you know I met the person.
I'm happy, we're happy, we're good. You know, everything's fine,
we're comfortable, there's no such thing because either one day especially,
I mean I've been married also twenty two years and
um with the same person, had four kids with the
same man, and there's a lot of growth in that,
but it can also become stale. So how do you
(05:11):
make it grow with you as you are. We're curious,
We're going to always look for different things, new ways
of being of doing. Even for people who aren't really
interested in spirituality, we still have that craving. So the
um knowing this that the only thing that's constant has changed,
then you can approach your relationship and your marriage with
that same philosophy. And so you know, if you're curious
(05:34):
and something, maybe you bring your partner along with you,
or if you have a question about something, you're there
side by side helping each other become better and do better.
So you mentioned spirituality and a spiritual basis to the relationship.
Your foundation is Cabbala. Can you walk us through because
I have studied. I've been actually to the Cabala Center
(05:54):
in l a Um Jill. Of course, Lisa has an
incredibly profound grounding in this because almost all the things
we discussed and I and I play the role of
the simple child, so so so can we can you
help me and the listener out there who might feel
the way I do, and just give us a grounding
And is a very in depth ancient wisdom and you
(06:17):
could really study it your whole life and not know
very much. I mean, it's that detailed um, which is
what I love about it because you'll forever be a student,
which we are. Um. So Cabola explains the complexities of
the material and the non material world, like our physical
world and the world above. And what Cobblas have known
for centuries is that you know. And I think that
(06:38):
as a society we're starting to think more in this way.
We're more concerned about what we eat, what we put
in our mouths, or the words that come out of
our mouths. There's a consciousness to the things that we
do and the way that we live. And what Cabala
teaches is that when life happens to you, it's it's
to learn how to make it happen through you. So
from each experience to see like even a challenge, as
a gift or as a blessing, then it warms your
(07:00):
life experiences and you live a life that really works.
There's concepts like cause and effect um the one reality
versus So most people live according to their five senses,
and I talk about this in my book as well.
When we look for me, usually it's are they appealing
to us visually? Even pheromones? Right? Do they smell good
to us? Um? Do I think that? Is there an attraction?
(07:22):
It's very and all of that's important, don't get me wrong,
But that's not everything. The thing that stands the test
of time is something that you can only see from
the depth of who you are and who you want
to become. And from that space you can attract the
person that will be your life partner, and that will
really you'll be happy that's your life partner. So Cobala
is is an amazing foundation for for living life. With
(07:45):
that view and with that understanding, because things happen to
all of us that we didn't want and that we
wouldn't choose. And um, very often people wear that so
you can either make it work for you or not.
And I found this wisdom to be in a valuable
tool for that and also for activating the potential of
who I can become. And that can you talk a
little bit about the birth of your son, Josh and
(08:07):
sort of how you because it sounds as though when
you talk about things happening to you or through you,
that was when a big shift happened in you and
in your marriage and every sense. So, um, my second
child was born with Down syndrome, and I found out
four hours after his birth, and I was UM. I
(08:27):
was a young mother. I had my first child when
I was twenty four. I had Josh when I was
twenty seven, and it was a defining life changing moment
from the time, you know, the doctor came in the room.
It wasn't even my doctor, was his associate. And I
always find this interesting some names doctors feel the need
made no offense but to come and be the one
(08:49):
to tell you what they've discovered, you know, and My
husband wasn't even in the room, and I kept saying,
he's coming back. He went to get our our our
other son to meet his brother. He's been waiting so long.
I mean, it was just like, you know, He's like, no,
I have to tell you right now, which he didn't,
but he blurted out, were sure your son has down syndrome.
And in that moment, I was just struck by fear.
(09:09):
I mean, my first book is called Fear Is Not
an Option, and I felt like, there's no way I
can raise this child um because it really struck a chord.
I thought, you know, of all the things that he
could have, why did it have to be his mind?
Because my first fear that I ever had was and
it was an illogical one, but my uncle became schizophrenic
(09:29):
seemingly overnight as an eight year old. That's what it
looked like in my eyes, and I thought it was contagious.
So of all the afflictions, why with Josh should have
to be his mind? I felt like it's something I
couldn't understand, and I was consumed by fear. But I
had a choice to make in that moment, and it
took longer than a moment took about two months that
I could either you know, worry about what this would
(09:51):
do to me or my family, or I could embrace
the beauty of what he could become and subsequently who
I would become. So I approached this whole opportunity to
really you know, I just found out about his disability
on the day he was born, but I had a
lifetime to find out about his gifts. And most people
experience life the other way around, right, I mean, we
think everybody's normal and then suddenly we're like, wait, that
(10:13):
person is crazy. No, we didn't expect that. So it
just it turned everything and I thought I knew, and
I had been studying Kabala for many years at that point,
but I had to rethink everything I thought I knew
and really understand it because I think that for security reasons,
as we talked about that need for certainty at the beginning,
people like to learn things in the way that is
going to comfort them in some way, and it's not
(10:34):
a conscious thing. But I remember when I started studying
at seventeen, I felt like, Okay, as long as I'm spiritual,
nothing bad will ever happen to me, which I think
helped me cope with the fear of becoming schizophrenic or
any other fear I had at that time, And so
I've had to say, no, you know what, this is
an opportunity. It's a gift, and it's in a package
(10:54):
that I don't understand. It looks like brown paper bag wrapping,
and it's not really pretty in the way I am today,
But I'm going to change and really grow and see
him and myself and what we can really become and be.
When we come back on a delve more into becoming.
(11:22):
We've been chatting with Monica Berg and before the break, Um,
she told us a little bit about the birth of
her son and how that changed her. And I want
to just unpack that a little bit and go deeper
into the ways that you changed and are continuing to change.
I'm sure because of your relationship to your son, but
(11:42):
also maybe the ways that you that your relationship with
your husband changed because of your son. And in your
the last part of your book is becoming One and
do you think that that through the triangle of you
and your husband and your son has allowed you and
your husband to become closer in your marriage. Um, there's
(12:07):
just some questions that came up. Give me the first
one I had, well, the first one was about your
relationship with your son and and and how that has
I guess enhanced your spiritual journey and and and how
that enhances your spiritual journey with your husband as well. UM.
For sure, I think that the biggest indication of where
(12:28):
I was in terms of my belief in something greater
or just even my my spirituality was that when I
had him, all of these feelings came up. The first
feeling I had, after you know, extreme shock and fear,
was crushing shame. I felt that I had done something wrong,
and I felt like I had failed my husband my body,
(12:50):
like how could I have grown an unhealthy child inside
of me? So I had all of those feelings, which
had surprised me because I thought that I had done
enough work at the time of dealing with shame and
blame and guilt, which I can tell you today don't
experience at all, because I've worked very hard removing that
and UM and then I remember, and this was I
think the big shift for me. I was at a
coffee shop. I lived in California. I grew up there mostly,
(13:15):
UM moved there when I was eight and I was
at a coffee store and I ran into somebody from
high school. I went to beperly was high school like
the TV show? Yes, it's all of those things. And
I remember and I had Josh on the stroller and
he was a few months old, and I thought, oh
my god, I hope they don't realize he has down syndrome.
Was I was embarrassed, and I thought, Monica, is this
is who you really are? And this is who you
(13:35):
want to be? Like I was shocked that I had
the thought. And I said, you know what, whatever you
think you're learning, or whatever you think you're living or
whatever you how I elevated you think you are you
have such a long way to go. And I think
that that really started this constant thing where I do.
I check in with myself daily. I give myself emotional
feedback daily. Two. First of all, am I living authentically?
(13:55):
Am I doing the things that I believe in? And
it's any other noise, anybody's opinion from outside coming in
and creeping in and taking over. So it really changed
all of those things that really get us stuck in life.
For me to be able to stand on my own
two feet, like who I am learned to love myself
and really appreciate that. So I think that was the
biggest shift. And of course, um, and he continues to
(14:20):
do that. I mean, with Josh, it's interesting. He is
naturally the things that we all work really hard to become, Like,
he's naturally kind, and he's naturally empathetic. Um, he thinks
about what a person will need before you've even thought
about it. I mean, in the most beautiful way. And
we have to work really hard to be kind we do,
and to be sharing and put others before ourselves. For him,
(14:42):
that's just that's who he is. The things that are
difficult to the things we take for granted, like you know,
the way he learns and how long it takes him
or um, you know, things going over his head. We
take all of that for granted. But for him, he
is to work really hard to get there. So he's
forever you know, my teacher, and I appreciate that. And
with my husband. You know, as we know, most people
(15:03):
who have a real challenge, whether it's a child that's
born with the disability or any kind of huge thing,
it usually tears people apart. And that was the other
choice I made that day, because the fear was so
overwhelming and the diagnosis was so big that it could
have completely pulled us apart, and instead we leaned in
on each other. And I remember thinking at the time,
because that's where I was at, that I had done
(15:24):
something to deserve this, like it was karmen in some way.
And then I thought about it. I said, well, I
don't have those thoughts about my husband. I don't think
that he deserves it. So in a way, you know,
a lot of people want to be there for you
when things happen, but this specific thing, this child was
only born to me and to my husband, And even
though we were happy, if you had asked us at
the time and we had a good marriage and a
(15:44):
strong marriage, to where we are today, not even it.
It's not even a comparison, and it would not have
grown every year in that way. But what happened is
that we made the decision that nothing was greater than
our love for each other. So shortly after Josh was born,
I remember we were going to a birthday party and
um I had three kids at the time. They were
all in the car. It was a hot day, was
(16:06):
like a hundred degrees in l a and it's like
it was before ways in navigation, and we were hopelessly
lost and we're driving and driving and one one diaper
was soiled, the other one was full of urine. I
mean they were starving. We're driving around and driving around,
trapped in a car with poopy diaper kids and it
was not I remember that made itself in the car
(16:28):
like not so great, my husband, We're about to get
in a fight, basically, and um we stopped in that
moment and we just started laughing. We're like, do we
even want to go to this party? Not really. We
just drove home. We actually took the kids to dinner,
and we just turned it around. So I think that
that is how we began to approach everything in a
relationship that nothing is greater than our love, and so
(16:48):
in these petty things like I just can I just
stop you for a second and say, it's so interesting
that such an every day kind of misadventure in the
car with cranky kids came with this epiphany like it sounds.
It sounds like it was actually quite a moment for
the two of you being able to laugh about that
(17:09):
and just bond hard and fast over it. We were
so raw at the time and we and it tapped
us into something that was so much more important. Like
after that, again, we could have become a victim by
the way, and then we could have had a very
different choice. But we chose that we were going to
consistently see the gift in this And when you start
to see life with through that lens, with an appreciation
(17:32):
and with a gratitude and not taking it for granted,
not even your partner, which is what became now the
new foundation or relationship, then nothing really could throw us
off so much. I mean, in my book I write
about we have and a lot of the people get this,
but they're from London, so they're British. I like British humor,
and whenever they're about to get a fight, they say,
imagine there's a gun to our heads, right, like if
(17:53):
a robber came in it comes would they would this
really matter? I think it's just about shifting perspective. Really,
do you do that when you when you're in a fight,
because it's really it's great and makes so much sense
in this room writing a book to to know how
you should approach an an argument with your spouse, But
in the moment when they've done something really obnoxious. Can
(18:15):
you still think about the gun to your head? And
is this really important? Are you able to practice that?
We do with completely practice it. Um, we don't use
the gun thing that was my friends things. But I
think for us it's more about the thing is at
this stage, he's not going to do something really obnoxious,
and neither am I. Because we're emotionally intelligent with one
another and we're considered with one another. And I think
(18:37):
that a lot of times when people stop working on
the relationships, they stop being friends, and people do things
to their spouses and the partners they would never do
to a friend, and if they did, they would go back.
My parents they listen, I feel really bad about what happened. Why,
Because you appreciate your friend, you're afraid you're going to
lose them. Sometimes when we are in a marriage that
they're like, well, we've been married this long, they're not
going anywhere again. These aren't conscious thoughts. And maybe that's
(18:58):
the question to ask yourself. Not a gun to the head,
But if this was my friend, what I'd be saying
my face all screwed up and enraged, and and even
if I lost my temper if it was my friend,
how would I go back and repair this? And it's
about those series of choices day to day. And that's
why the book's almost three because there's so much so
(19:20):
you're able to just step back and not allow negative
emotion to interfere. So I'm able to have perspective about
where he might be coming from. And then I'm also
able to have perspective if I behave like this, even
if I'm in a really bad mood or you know,
my parents is sick or you know, and those realities
that we're in right now, I stop and say, Okay,
if I if I behave like this, what is that
(19:42):
doing to our relationship going forward? I mean, I'm I'm
all about self care. If I'm not if we're not
happy and we're living together and we're investigated, then what's
the point. I'm more I think that I never lose
sight of the bigger picture. One of the things that
really struck me in your book was that it divided
into these sections and it starts with the me, and
(20:04):
you know, we talk a lot about change in here,
and I think I was struck. I've been struck at
moments of kind of disruptive difficult transition for myself. That
is a constant thing I have to remind myself that
this is not this is on me to get through.
So as much as you're talking about being bonded and
together and seeing that your love is the most important thing,
(20:28):
there's also a tremendous amount of taking responsibility for navigating
your own changes and not you know, he's not going
to do it for you, She's not going to do
it for you. So the part we were talking about
with the relationship is the third part of the book.
It's called We. The part that you're bringing up is me,
which is the first nine chapters, And I feel like,
obviously that's very important, which is why I dedicated so
(20:49):
much time to that. It's also the first it's the
most fundamental step that most people miss in their lives,
even before entering a relationship. But it's never too late
to go back to that. Even if you're you know,
in your seven days, it's still it's the only place
where you're going to learn to love yourself, and so
many people don't. And if you don't cultivate that for yourself,
first of all, you're not going to know what you
(21:09):
believe you're and then they're at threat. Right, anybody can
come in and impress anything upon you. But also you're
not able to navigate through life knowing what you feel,
what you think, and to trust your choices. So I
think often people expect, and there's chapters called Cinderella syndrome
and cherished delusions where we assign our partner to fulfill
(21:30):
us in a way that's not fair or realistic or
even possible, because we don't actually learn to do that
for ourselves. So when I say that nothing is greater
than our love, I'm not saying important. The first important
thing is to love yourself in that way, and then
you can bring in your partner. I remember when I
was so desperate for love. Um, I was antarectic, I
(21:51):
didn't needing disorder, and I was so lonely. It's such
a lonely, isolating disorder. And I remember thinking, I just
want to be loved, I just want to find my
part or. And I stopped and I said, Okay, but
I know that I can't even attract the right person
in the space that I'm in because I'm gonna attract
somebody to meet me where I'm at today, and that's
not nearly good enough, and that I need to learn
(22:11):
whatever I'm craving to receive from another human being, I
need to first learn to give that to myself. So
in those four years, until we we had known each other,
but until we actually saw each other and recognize each
other as the ones we wanted to be with, which
took times. When I first met him, I was like,
if God came down and told me that this is
my partner, you can absolutely not There was just no
connection in that way. UM. But but really becoming a
(22:35):
friend to yourself, learning to love yourself, learning to navigate
through problems right, relying on yourself as the first When
we come back, I want to talk more about how
we learn to love ourselves because I think that's something
that so many people really struggle with. Before the break,
(23:02):
we've been talking with Monica Berg about getting to a
place where we love ourselves before UM partnering with the
one because they are not going to be able to
that that whole that we're looking to fill. No other
person can fail for us. So I was wondering if
you have any specific tools or techniques, because I'm sure
(23:25):
that there are a lot of people out there. UM,
maybe some people in this room who who needs some
help in getting to a place where of self acceptance
and of feeling like they're attracting the type of person
they want to be with because their whole and they're
not trying to to fill something with another person. So
(23:46):
can you walk us through some techniques for getting to
a better place. So it's kind of like if you're
going you're curious about meeting a friend or finding a
new friend, right, how would you approach that? First? You
would um, you'd be honest with yourself about what interests do,
you'd be curious. It's about really taking the time to
(24:07):
hear that kinder voice. Because the thing is, most of
us walk through life hearing a negative voice. Right. It's
the one that we usually grew up with. It's one
that's filled with shame or that you should have done this,
or you could have done that. It's filled with regret
and from that, and we're not very kind to ourselves.
Right when we look in the mirror, we usually have
more negative thoughts than we do positive. So the first
thing to do is to identify what's not working for
(24:29):
you and with anything in life, and you write that
down by already identifying what's not working along to find
what is working, and then from that space you can
start to ask yourself questions, but wait to hear the
answer of what is it that I'm passionate about, what
is it I'm curious about, what is it that I
enjoy doing? And then start to honor that. So when
(24:50):
you ignore your intuition long enough for you and ignore
your desires or your wants, or you have shame and wanting,
all of that thing that we walk around with through life,
then you stop hearing the smaller, acquieter voice. And and
when you start to do this exercise, that voice gets
a little bit louder and a little bit louder. But
the important thing is to act on it. And when
(25:10):
you do that, then you're gonna start to feel happier
and more fulfilled, and you say, Wow, that really worked,
and then you're gonna go back and do it again.
Over time, you're gonna start to feel good about your decisions.
You're gonna feel like you can rely on yourself to
make good choices. You're gonna start to hear your desires
and your wants versus those around you. And honestly, the
more open we are to other people's opinions, the more
(25:30):
they're going to come and give it to us. That's
the way it works. So you said that you can
do this at any point, whether you've been in a
relationship for decades or not, you can go back to
the me. You can sort of build and fill and
find those passions, find that better foundation. As a couple
of therapists, do you find that sometimes the partner is
(25:50):
not necessarily supportive of that of the shifts that need
to happen in exercises like the ones you're talking about
are very often they're not, especially if you've been in
a really long relationship because again back to the idea
of change, the partner usually fears the other changing because
how is that going to impact their life, especially if
(26:11):
they're comfortable. Let's say that the husband likes that his wife,
you know, his home at five with the cooked meal
and you and now she's just tired of that. The
kids are out of the house and that's not a
filling for her anymore. Is he going to want that change?
Probably not, because it's very comfortable for him. So then
he might fear and maybe even sabotage that. People do
that a lot with diets, right. If one wants to
lose weight and the other one it doesn't, and it's
(26:33):
comfortable with this, sometimes they're going to pick fights, not
even consciously, and sabotage that. So there's not that change
that occurs. But I still know with all of my
heart that if you, if you do the work and
you decide, because everything starts with a choice, that this
is something that's worthwhile for you, and do you bring
(26:53):
your partner along and share your understanding, your learning, then
usually they're going to come around. But do can't have
an expectation that they're going to approve support in order
for you to do it well. That and that gets
back to the idea of depending leaning on the other
person for the change you have to do in yourself.
You can't lean on their approval or their immediate buy
(27:13):
in either. How important and in what ways does cabrala
um influence your relationship? Is cabala a key part of
the way that you and your husband interact is? And
(27:35):
are there specific truths to the Cabralic teaching that that
you use in your relationship? So I love this question.
I talk about spirituality a lot in my book. I mean,
I talk about science psychology UM, because truth is truth,
and I think that if that is the case, it's
going to bring true in all of these different topics
(27:55):
and subjects. UM. But I also say that you don't
have to study Cabala, but it has to be a spirituality.
I think spirituality is very important to have in a
relationship because and Cabala talks a lot about ego. When
you don't have a spirituality, egos the third party, and
people are not going to be happy because you can't.
Ego doesn't want to be wrong. Ego doesn't want to
(28:16):
be corrected. Ego doesn't want to be diminished or not
have the last word right. So if ego is taking
this place and nobody can stop and say, wait a second,
I'm gonna humble myself even though I don't want to
say I'm sorry right now, or even though you were wrong. Also,
there has to be some kind of commonality where you
understand again the perspective. So when I was sharing earlier
that we always have this bigger perspective of what's important,
(28:37):
I think that that's where Cabala really helps. For sure,
we're not going around saying, well, you know, Cabala says,
but doesn't underlying um approach both to how we we
both of our lives right, We're constantly chipping away at
the ego, We're constantly trying to thrive to be better individually.
So if you have that and then you meet the
relationship from that space, then naturally it's going to work
(28:59):
if you have all the other boxes checked as well.
I don't think I have all the other boxes checked,
and I definitely it's interesting. My husband and I share
many common approaches to the world, and I think it
really helps our marriage to work. But we do not
share a spiritual life. Neither of us really have much
of a spiritual life, and religion has played zero role
(29:22):
in his life growing up and pretty much zero role
in mine. So as a shared agnosticism, there you go,
except we don't. We're not even passionately agnostic either. But
you're definitely not passionately atheistic because you're not proselytizing, you know.
I think that if you both were curious though about
spirituality and you studied it together, you started reading up
(29:45):
on it, like I think that would be a great
opportunity to create another connection in a new closeness and
maybe discover something that you both didn't realize that you love.
I think that, yeah. I think that's also what keeps
marriage is healthy and alive. It's constantly looking, you know.
I remember after we had Josh, we were again we
were really so rob but we decided that we're going
to go and have some fun because everything was so heavy.
(30:07):
And that's another formula for a great relationships. Laughter and levity.
I mean, we take ourselves so seriously and taking so
sim it's not such a big deal, and not everything
is such a big deal. So we took up um
ballroom dancing, we took up tennis. I mean we were
but but after like a month, we were exhausted because
every night of the week we were doing something new.
But we laughed about that schedule and about creating ways
(30:28):
to connect because what happens is, you know, everybody has
their own day pretty much, and then if you have
the kids in the mix, and then if you don't
take time actually come back together and reconnect and find
that space where you had fun when you first met,
right and where you were talking about ideas and dreams
of the future and what your life would be like
together or for yourselves. Even that shouldn't die, That should
keep growing and expanding as you do, because that's what
(30:51):
we do as human beings. So to not share that
with your partner, either you're gonna keep it to yourself
or you're going to completely shut down. You're gonna share
it with your girlfriend, and then that just creates more space.
But also, you, guys, were you kept growing because you
were learning new things. And I think so many couples
just getting ruts by repeating the same behavior, like you
were out dancing or playing tennis, but you could have
(31:12):
just come home, had dinner, watched TV, and go in
to bed, right. But I do think in order to
keep a relationship alive, if if you let it go
stagnant and you just do the same thing every night
for thirty years, it's not going to stay together for
too much longer than that. Or you will, but you'll
be miserable. Yeah yeah, um, So this is Joll's favorite question,
but I'm gonna ask it for because she hasn't gotten
(31:33):
to it yet. Sex. I jumped ahead. I read your
sex chapter one, I admitted now. First, actually not first,
I read some of the me chapter and then I
saw the sex chapter and I was like, mmmm, I
want to know what the policies. So let's talk about sex.
How big a part of the relationship with the romantic
(31:56):
relationship do you think it is, and how can we
make it better? I think that it is a big part.
People don't like to speak about it for some reason.
Um usually but um, I think that sex is love
and motion. So it's a natural way to express how
you feel about one another. And it's also a natural
way to have pleasure and say what you enjoy. And
(32:19):
I think that there's a lot of I still think
that there's taboo of you know, women saying that they
enjoyed it, that they should have an orgasm or you know.
I think that it's very there's a reason that we
can do it, and it's a reason that it's pleasurable,
and it's not just to create children um Cobalistically, there's
also a period where there's separation during the mental menstrual
cycle and for a little bit after that, and spiritually speaking,
(32:41):
I think that it's a very healthy thing to do
because then when you come back together, there's a you know,
you prepare for one another. It's kind of like having
a wedding night over again. And I think that that
really keeps a relationship healthy and fresh in a sex
life also fun still when you have this time away
from each other and then you have a time where
you come back, and I think it builds desire because
(33:01):
it's a big part of wanting to be with your partner.
Also because if you have something all the time, take
it for granted. Yeah, And it's also there's no desire, right,
You only desire something you don't have, and then you
plan it. I mean I think that we can sometimes, sorry,
you can sometimes be difficult to convince your husband that
taking time off from sex will actually make it better.
(33:22):
How I don't know that there are many men who
ascribe to this. If you let's put it this way.
Let's say this. Let's say you said to your husband,
let's take a week off, and then when we come
back together, let's say on Tuesday, we're gonna make it special.
Let's make dinner reservation somewhere. I'm going to take like
a bath, and you make it. Believe me on board,
He's actually even more excited because it's different and it's
(33:46):
and he'd be curious. Yeah, And again, not everybody has
to do that. I'm just saying that there are certain
things to do to build those things that we just
talked about, like desire curiosity, which just sounds very mindful.
And that's bringing lots of lots of awareness to your
sex life because it stops and starts at a certain point.
So maybe maybe it's not about the schedule or your
(34:09):
cycle or always and I, like you said, it's the
whole book is about bringing awareness to all aspects of
relationship because usually a very neglected I love that I'm
going to practice bringing awareness to all areas of my relationship.
So thank you very much, Monic has been a real
pleasure speaking with you. Thank you, thank you for having me.
(34:30):
Monica's new book is Rethink Love, Three Steps to being
the One, attracting the one, and becoming one. Connect with
her at Rethink Life dot today and let's all be
mindful in our relationships. The Road to Somewhere is recorded
in New York City. Make sure to share, subscribe, rate,
(34:52):
and review us. We would love to hear from you.
Where are you on your journey? Connect with us on Facebook, Instagram,
and Twitter at pod to Somewhere and email us at
Road to Somewhere at iHeartMedia dot com. Special thanks to
Alicia Haywood are incredible producer. Thanks everyone for joining us
on the road to Somewhere. We're available on the I
(35:15):
Heart Radio app, on Apple podcast, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
You can arrive at a space where you are met
with vulnerability. First you have to be vulnerable, and your
partner needs to meet you in that space because being
vulnerable people don't like that lord it has a bad rap.
I love that word. I think that being vulnerable is
writing on your own terms, saying this is who I am,
and not being afraid to be seen. The biggest fear
that people bring into the relationships is to really be seen,
(00:20):
because if they see something about me that they didn't
see it before, maybe they won't want to be with me.
Thanks for joining us on the road to somewhere. Where
we talk about exploration, adventure, major life change and transformation
is about not necessarily knowing where we're going, but having
(00:42):
faith that the journey will be worthwhile. I'm Lisa Oz
and I am Jill Herzeg And one of the things
that two of us have in common is that we
both met our husbands when we were practically children, and
they were practically children. In my case, I was I
was six when I met my husband. We did not
start dating. I know that would be we did not
start dating until early in college. But we've both been
(01:04):
in crazy long term extra long term relationships. And it's
funny to think about love in general and how my
sense of what love is built up over time. And
I think maybe with mement yours is the same thing.
Like you almost raised each other. Yeah, and we certainly
(01:28):
both grew up a lot, but yeah, it's we. You
and I have a kind of similar perspective on relationship.
And it's sort of hard having that. It's like a
tree that grows with the rings, you know, it's hard
to shake that up and get a new perspective on
love when you've been with the same person for such
a really, really, really long time. Suggesting that we have affairs, honey, No,
(01:56):
that's not what's happening here. Mem it. No, don't come
after me the butcher. No, but our guest today is
actually going to help us with understanding I think relationships, um,
at least the marriage relationship, and I think a deeper
and broader way um. Our guest today is self proclaimed
change junkie who inspires people to get excited about a
(02:17):
lifestyle of change. Her newest book, Rethink Love, Three Steps
to Being the One, Attracting the One, and Becoming One.
We are joined by Monica Borg. Monica, thank you so
much for being here today, thank you for having me.
So just in reading that title, I have to ask,
do you think there's only one people are always talking
(02:39):
about she's the one? But do you think maybe if
you don't connect with that single person in all seven
billion people, you're destined to be alone for your all life?
Or do you think maybe we're struggling in the relationship
with the person you do isn't the one. I think
that it was a whole chapter on soulmates. They think
very often people question the relationship did they marry the
(03:00):
right personally with the right person. If they don't know
for sure, it's their soul made and it's such an
open ended topic and idea. I think we have many
soul connections. I think that you can have a soul
may relationship really with anybody, depending on how you are
in the relationship. I believe in elevating love, which requires
elevating consciousness. And when you're in a conscious relationship where
(03:21):
you're growing together side by side and you check each other,
you're you're each other's mirrors, then I think that is
as close to a soul may relationship as it gets.
Because your soul is constantly growing and expanding. So is
your curiosity and so is your joy. I love that. Yes,
I did too, absolutely so. One of the things I
thought was interesting in your book was the idea that
(03:43):
there is no such thing as a stable marriage, and
maybe it's not even a goal. Correct. Um. I call
myself a change junkie. I have this necklace UM that
says change as a reminder. And I think very often
people go through life trying to feel very certain secure.
I think as human beings, we all crave that. It's
something that is part of our nature. You know, when
(04:06):
we grew up, we're constantly looking for that that soft
space of nurture and security. Um. And here's the trick.
We are always changing. As we're sitting here. There's something
in our bodies or minds physiologically happening that is changing.
And so most people fear changed because they think that
indicates that there's something wrong with them. I'm actually doing
a workshop this week with couples to work on some
(04:29):
of the workshops in the book. I want to have
case studies. I want to follow them. I want to
see how once they've applied this really watch it come
to life. And UM, I suggested to this couple. I know,
you know, I think you'd be great for this, And
they said, why you are you worried about it? You
can there's something wrong with our relationship. And I said,
and I say to my book to the relationships that
work are the ones we work on. So when people
(04:50):
think that, okay, great, you know I met the person.
I'm happy, we're happy, we're good. You know, everything's fine,
we're comfortable, there's no such thing because either one day especially,
I mean I've been married also twenty two years and
um with the same person, had four kids with the
same man, and there's a lot of growth in that,
but it can also become stale. So how do you
(05:11):
make it grow with you as you are. We're curious,
We're going to always look for different things, new ways
of being of doing. Even for people who aren't really
interested in spirituality, we still have that craving. So the
um knowing this that the only thing that's constant has changed,
then you can approach your relationship and your marriage with
that same philosophy. And so you know, if you're curious
(05:34):
and something, maybe you bring your partner along with you,
or if you have a question about something, you're there
side by side helping each other become better and do better.
So you mentioned spirituality and a spiritual basis to the relationship.
Your foundation is Cabbala. Can you walk us through because
I have studied. I've been actually to the Cabala Center
(05:54):
in l a Um Jill. Of course, Lisa has an
incredibly profound grounding in this because almost all the things
we discussed and I and I play the role of
the simple child, so so so can we can you
help me and the listener out there who might feel
the way I do, and just give us a grounding
And is a very in depth ancient wisdom and you
(06:17):
could really study it your whole life and not know
very much. I mean, it's that detailed um, which is
what I love about it because you'll forever be a student,
which we are. Um. So Cabola explains the complexities of
the material and the non material world, like our physical
world and the world above. And what Cobblas have known
for centuries is that you know. And I think that
(06:38):
as a society we're starting to think more in this way.
We're more concerned about what we eat, what we put
in our mouths, or the words that come out of
our mouths. There's a consciousness to the things that we
do and the way that we live. And what Cabala
teaches is that when life happens to you, it's it's
to learn how to make it happen through you. So
from each experience to see like even a challenge, as
a gift or as a blessing, then it warms your
(07:00):
life experiences and you live a life that really works.
There's concepts like cause and effect um the one reality
versus So most people live according to their five senses,
and I talk about this in my book as well.
When we look for me, usually it's are they appealing
to us visually? Even pheromones? Right? Do they smell good
to us? Um? Do I think that? Is there an attraction?
(07:22):
It's very and all of that's important, don't get me wrong,
But that's not everything. The thing that stands the test
of time is something that you can only see from
the depth of who you are and who you want
to become. And from that space you can attract the
person that will be your life partner, and that will
really you'll be happy that's your life partner. So Cobala
is is an amazing foundation for for living life. With
(07:45):
that view and with that understanding, because things happen to
all of us that we didn't want and that we
wouldn't choose. And um, very often people wear that so
you can either make it work for you or not.
And I found this wisdom to be in a valuable
tool for that and also for activating the potential of
who I can become. And that can you talk a
little bit about the birth of your son, Josh and
(08:07):
sort of how you because it sounds as though when
you talk about things happening to you or through you,
that was when a big shift happened in you and
in your marriage and every sense. So, um, my second
child was born with Down syndrome, and I found out
four hours after his birth, and I was UM. I
(08:27):
was a young mother. I had my first child when
I was twenty four. I had Josh when I was
twenty seven, and it was a defining life changing moment
from the time, you know, the doctor came in the room.
It wasn't even my doctor, was his associate. And I
always find this interesting some names doctors feel the need
made no offense but to come and be the one
(08:49):
to tell you what they've discovered, you know, and My
husband wasn't even in the room, and I kept saying,
he's coming back. He went to get our our our
other son to meet his brother. He's been waiting so long.
I mean, it was just like, you know, He's like, no,
I have to tell you right now, which he didn't,
but he blurted out, were sure your son has down syndrome.
And in that moment, I was just struck by fear.
(09:09):
I mean, my first book is called Fear Is Not
an Option, and I felt like, there's no way I
can raise this child um because it really struck a chord.
I thought, you know, of all the things that he
could have, why did it have to be his mind?
Because my first fear that I ever had was and
it was an illogical one, but my uncle became schizophrenic
(09:29):
seemingly overnight as an eight year old. That's what it
looked like in my eyes, and I thought it was contagious.
So of all the afflictions, why with Josh should have
to be his mind? I felt like it's something I
couldn't understand, and I was consumed by fear. But I
had a choice to make in that moment, and it
took longer than a moment took about two months that
I could either you know, worry about what this would
(09:51):
do to me or my family, or I could embrace
the beauty of what he could become and subsequently who
I would become. So I approached this whole opportunity to
really you know, I just found out about his disability
on the day he was born, but I had a
lifetime to find out about his gifts. And most people
experience life the other way around, right, I mean, we
think everybody's normal and then suddenly we're like, wait, that
(10:13):
person is crazy. No, we didn't expect that. So it
just it turned everything and I thought I knew, and
I had been studying Kabala for many years at that point,
but I had to rethink everything I thought I knew
and really understand it because I think that for security reasons,
as we talked about that need for certainty at the beginning,
people like to learn things in the way that is
going to comfort them in some way, and it's not
(10:34):
a conscious thing. But I remember when I started studying
at seventeen, I felt like, Okay, as long as I'm spiritual,
nothing bad will ever happen to me, which I think
helped me cope with the fear of becoming schizophrenic or
any other fear I had at that time, And so
I've had to say, no, you know what, this is
an opportunity. It's a gift, and it's in a package
(10:54):
that I don't understand. It looks like brown paper bag wrapping,
and it's not really pretty in the way I am today,
But I'm going to change and really grow and see
him and myself and what we can really become and be.
When we come back on a delve more into becoming.
(11:22):
We've been chatting with Monica Berg and before the break, Um,
she told us a little bit about the birth of
her son and how that changed her. And I want
to just unpack that a little bit and go deeper
into the ways that you changed and are continuing to change.
I'm sure because of your relationship to your son, but
(11:42):
also maybe the ways that you that your relationship with
your husband changed because of your son. And in your
the last part of your book is becoming One and
do you think that that through the triangle of you
and your husband and your son has allowed you and
your husband to become closer in your marriage. Um, there's
(12:07):
just some questions that came up. Give me the first
one I had, well, the first one was about your
relationship with your son and and and how that has
I guess enhanced your spiritual journey and and and how
that enhances your spiritual journey with your husband as well. UM.
For sure, I think that the biggest indication of where
(12:28):
I was in terms of my belief in something greater
or just even my my spirituality was that when I
had him, all of these feelings came up. The first
feeling I had, after you know, extreme shock and fear,
was crushing shame. I felt that I had done something wrong,
and I felt like I had failed my husband my body,
(12:50):
like how could I have grown an unhealthy child inside
of me? So I had all of those feelings, which
had surprised me because I thought that I had done
enough work at the time of dealing with shame and
blame and guilt, which I can tell you today don't
experience at all, because I've worked very hard removing that
and UM and then I remember, and this was I
think the big shift for me. I was at a
coffee shop. I lived in California. I grew up there mostly,
(13:15):
UM moved there when I was eight and I was
at a coffee store and I ran into somebody from
high school. I went to beperly was high school like
the TV show? Yes, it's all of those things. And
I remember and I had Josh on the stroller and
he was a few months old, and I thought, oh
my god, I hope they don't realize he has down syndrome.
Was I was embarrassed, and I thought, Monica, is this
is who you really are? And this is who you
(13:35):
want to be? Like I was shocked that I had
the thought. And I said, you know what, whatever you
think you're learning, or whatever you think you're living or
whatever you how I elevated you think you are you
have such a long way to go. And I think
that that really started this constant thing where I do.
I check in with myself daily. I give myself emotional
feedback daily. Two. First of all, am I living authentically?
(13:55):
Am I doing the things that I believe in? And
it's any other noise, anybody's opinion from outside coming in
and creeping in and taking over. So it really changed
all of those things that really get us stuck in life.
For me to be able to stand on my own
two feet, like who I am learned to love myself
and really appreciate that. So I think that was the
biggest shift. And of course, um, and he continues to
(14:20):
do that. I mean, with Josh, it's interesting. He is
naturally the things that we all work really hard to become, Like,
he's naturally kind, and he's naturally empathetic. Um, he thinks
about what a person will need before you've even thought
about it. I mean, in the most beautiful way. And
we have to work really hard to be kind we do,
and to be sharing and put others before ourselves. For him,
(14:42):
that's just that's who he is. The things that are
difficult to the things we take for granted, like you know,
the way he learns and how long it takes him
or um, you know, things going over his head. We
take all of that for granted. But for him, he
is to work really hard to get there. So he's
forever you know, my teacher, and I appreciate that. And
with my husband. You know, as we know, most people
(15:03):
who have a real challenge, whether it's a child that's
born with the disability or any kind of huge thing,
it usually tears people apart. And that was the other
choice I made that day, because the fear was so
overwhelming and the diagnosis was so big that it could
have completely pulled us apart, and instead we leaned in
on each other. And I remember thinking at the time,
because that's where I was at, that I had done
(15:24):
something to deserve this, like it was karmen in some way.
And then I thought about it. I said, well, I
don't have those thoughts about my husband. I don't think
that he deserves it. So in a way, you know,
a lot of people want to be there for you
when things happen, but this specific thing, this child was
only born to me and to my husband, And even
though we were happy, if you had asked us at
the time and we had a good marriage and a
(15:44):
strong marriage, to where we are today, not even it.
It's not even a comparison, and it would not have
grown every year in that way. But what happened is
that we made the decision that nothing was greater than
our love for each other. So shortly after Josh was born,
I remember we were going to a birthday party and
um I had three kids at the time. They were
all in the car. It was a hot day, was
(16:06):
like a hundred degrees in l a and it's like
it was before ways in navigation, and we were hopelessly
lost and we're driving and driving and one one diaper
was soiled, the other one was full of urine. I
mean they were starving. We're driving around and driving around,
trapped in a car with poopy diaper kids and it
was not I remember that made itself in the car
(16:28):
like not so great, my husband, We're about to get
in a fight, basically, and um we stopped in that
moment and we just started laughing. We're like, do we
even want to go to this party? Not really. We
just drove home. We actually took the kids to dinner,
and we just turned it around. So I think that
that is how we began to approach everything in a
relationship that nothing is greater than our love, and so
(16:48):
in these petty things like I just can I just
stop you for a second and say, it's so interesting
that such an every day kind of misadventure in the
car with cranky kids came with this epiphany like it sounds.
It sounds like it was actually quite a moment for
the two of you being able to laugh about that
(17:09):
and just bond hard and fast over it. We were
so raw at the time and we and it tapped
us into something that was so much more important. Like
after that, again, we could have become a victim by
the way, and then we could have had a very
different choice. But we chose that we were going to
consistently see the gift in this And when you start
to see life with through that lens, with an appreciation
(17:32):
and with a gratitude and not taking it for granted,
not even your partner, which is what became now the
new foundation or relationship, then nothing really could throw us
off so much. I mean, in my book I write
about we have and a lot of the people get this,
but they're from London, so they're British. I like British humor,
and whenever they're about to get a fight, they say,
imagine there's a gun to our heads, right, like if
(17:53):
a robber came in it comes would they would this
really matter? I think it's just about shifting perspective. Really,
do you do that when you when you're in a fight,
because it's really it's great and makes so much sense
in this room writing a book to to know how
you should approach an an argument with your spouse, But
in the moment when they've done something really obnoxious. Can
(18:15):
you still think about the gun to your head? And
is this really important? Are you able to practice that?
We do with completely practice it. Um, we don't use
the gun thing that was my friends things. But I
think for us it's more about the thing is at
this stage, he's not going to do something really obnoxious,
and neither am I. Because we're emotionally intelligent with one
another and we're considered with one another. And I think
(18:37):
that a lot of times when people stop working on
the relationships, they stop being friends, and people do things
to their spouses and the partners they would never do
to a friend, and if they did, they would go back.
My parents they listen, I feel really bad about what happened. Why,
Because you appreciate your friend, you're afraid you're going to
lose them. Sometimes when we are in a marriage that
they're like, well, we've been married this long, they're not
going anywhere again. These aren't conscious thoughts. And maybe that's
(18:58):
the question to ask yourself. Not a gun to the head,
But if this was my friend, what I'd be saying
my face all screwed up and enraged, and and even
if I lost my temper if it was my friend,
how would I go back and repair this? And it's
about those series of choices day to day. And that's
why the book's almost three because there's so much so
(19:20):
you're able to just step back and not allow negative
emotion to interfere. So I'm able to have perspective about
where he might be coming from. And then I'm also
able to have perspective if I behave like this, even
if I'm in a really bad mood or you know,
my parents is sick or you know, and those realities
that we're in right now, I stop and say, Okay,
if I if I behave like this, what is that
(19:42):
doing to our relationship going forward? I mean, I'm I'm
all about self care. If I'm not if we're not
happy and we're living together and we're investigated, then what's
the point. I'm more I think that I never lose
sight of the bigger picture. One of the things that
really struck me in your book was that it divided
into these sections and it starts with the me, and
(20:04):
you know, we talk a lot about change in here,
and I think I was struck. I've been struck at
moments of kind of disruptive difficult transition for myself. That
is a constant thing I have to remind myself that
this is not this is on me to get through.
So as much as you're talking about being bonded and
together and seeing that your love is the most important thing,
(20:28):
there's also a tremendous amount of taking responsibility for navigating
your own changes and not you know, he's not going
to do it for you, She's not going to do
it for you. So the part we were talking about
with the relationship is the third part of the book.
It's called We. The part that you're bringing up is me,
which is the first nine chapters, And I feel like,
obviously that's very important, which is why I dedicated so
(20:49):
much time to that. It's also the first it's the
most fundamental step that most people miss in their lives,
even before entering a relationship. But it's never too late
to go back to that. Even if you're you know,
in your seven days, it's still it's the only place
where you're going to learn to love yourself, and so
many people don't. And if you don't cultivate that for yourself,
first of all, you're not going to know what you
(21:09):
believe you're and then they're at threat. Right, anybody can
come in and impress anything upon you. But also you're
not able to navigate through life knowing what you feel,
what you think, and to trust your choices. So I
think often people expect, and there's chapters called Cinderella syndrome
and cherished delusions where we assign our partner to fulfill
(21:30):
us in a way that's not fair or realistic or
even possible, because we don't actually learn to do that
for ourselves. So when I say that nothing is greater
than our love, I'm not saying important. The first important
thing is to love yourself in that way, and then
you can bring in your partner. I remember when I
was so desperate for love. Um, I was antarectic, I
(21:51):
didn't needing disorder, and I was so lonely. It's such
a lonely, isolating disorder. And I remember thinking, I just
want to be loved, I just want to find my
part or. And I stopped and I said, Okay, but
I know that I can't even attract the right person
in the space that I'm in because I'm gonna attract
somebody to meet me where I'm at today, and that's
not nearly good enough, and that I need to learn
(22:11):
whatever I'm craving to receive from another human being, I
need to first learn to give that to myself. So
in those four years, until we we had known each other,
but until we actually saw each other and recognize each
other as the ones we wanted to be with, which
took times. When I first met him, I was like,
if God came down and told me that this is
my partner, you can absolutely not There was just no
connection in that way. UM. But but really becoming a
(22:35):
friend to yourself, learning to love yourself, learning to navigate
through problems right, relying on yourself as the first When
we come back, I want to talk more about how
we learn to love ourselves because I think that's something
that so many people really struggle with. Before the break,
(23:02):
we've been talking with Monica Berg about getting to a
place where we love ourselves before UM partnering with the
one because they are not going to be able to
that that whole that we're looking to fill. No other
person can fail for us. So I was wondering if
you have any specific tools or techniques, because I'm sure
(23:25):
that there are a lot of people out there. UM,
maybe some people in this room who who needs some
help in getting to a place where of self acceptance
and of feeling like they're attracting the type of person
they want to be with because their whole and they're
not trying to to fill something with another person. So
(23:46):
can you walk us through some techniques for getting to
a better place. So it's kind of like if you're
going you're curious about meeting a friend or finding a
new friend, right, how would you approach that? First? You
would um, you'd be honest with yourself about what interests do,
you'd be curious. It's about really taking the time to
(24:07):
hear that kinder voice. Because the thing is, most of
us walk through life hearing a negative voice. Right. It's
the one that we usually grew up with. It's one
that's filled with shame or that you should have done this,
or you could have done that. It's filled with regret
and from that, and we're not very kind to ourselves.
Right when we look in the mirror, we usually have
more negative thoughts than we do positive. So the first
thing to do is to identify what's not working for
(24:29):
you and with anything in life, and you write that
down by already identifying what's not working along to find
what is working, and then from that space you can
start to ask yourself questions, but wait to hear the
answer of what is it that I'm passionate about, what
is it I'm curious about, what is it that I
enjoy doing? And then start to honor that. So when
(24:50):
you ignore your intuition long enough for you and ignore
your desires or your wants, or you have shame and wanting,
all of that thing that we walk around with through life,
then you stop hearing the smaller, acquieter voice. And and
when you start to do this exercise, that voice gets
a little bit louder and a little bit louder. But
the important thing is to act on it. And when
(25:10):
you do that, then you're gonna start to feel happier
and more fulfilled, and you say, Wow, that really worked,
and then you're gonna go back and do it again.
Over time, you're gonna start to feel good about your decisions.
You're gonna feel like you can rely on yourself to
make good choices. You're gonna start to hear your desires
and your wants versus those around you. And honestly, the
more open we are to other people's opinions, the more
(25:30):
they're going to come and give it to us. That's
the way it works. So you said that you can
do this at any point, whether you've been in a
relationship for decades or not, you can go back to
the me. You can sort of build and fill and
find those passions, find that better foundation. As a couple
of therapists, do you find that sometimes the partner is
(25:50):
not necessarily supportive of that of the shifts that need
to happen in exercises like the ones you're talking about
are very often they're not, especially if you've been in
a really long relationship because again back to the idea
of change, the partner usually fears the other changing because
how is that going to impact their life, especially if
(26:11):
they're comfortable. Let's say that the husband likes that his wife,
you know, his home at five with the cooked meal
and you and now she's just tired of that. The
kids are out of the house and that's not a
filling for her anymore. Is he going to want that change?
Probably not, because it's very comfortable for him. So then
he might fear and maybe even sabotage that. People do
that a lot with diets, right. If one wants to
lose weight and the other one it doesn't, and it's
(26:33):
comfortable with this, sometimes they're going to pick fights, not
even consciously, and sabotage that. So there's not that change
that occurs. But I still know with all of my
heart that if you, if you do the work and
you decide, because everything starts with a choice, that this
is something that's worthwhile for you, and do you bring
(26:53):
your partner along and share your understanding, your learning, then
usually they're going to come around. But do can't have
an expectation that they're going to approve support in order
for you to do it well. That and that gets
back to the idea of depending leaning on the other
person for the change you have to do in yourself.
You can't lean on their approval or their immediate buy
(27:13):
in either. How important and in what ways does cabrala
um influence your relationship? Is cabala a key part of
the way that you and your husband interact is? And
(27:35):
are there specific truths to the Cabralic teaching that that
you use in your relationship? So I love this question.
I talk about spirituality a lot in my book. I mean,
I talk about science psychology UM, because truth is truth,
and I think that if that is the case, it's
going to bring true in all of these different topics
(27:55):
and subjects. UM. But I also say that you don't
have to study Cabala, but it has to be a spirituality.
I think spirituality is very important to have in a
relationship because and Cabala talks a lot about ego. When
you don't have a spirituality, egos the third party, and
people are not going to be happy because you can't.
Ego doesn't want to be wrong. Ego doesn't want to
(28:16):
be corrected. Ego doesn't want to be diminished or not
have the last word right. So if ego is taking
this place and nobody can stop and say, wait a second,
I'm gonna humble myself even though I don't want to
say I'm sorry right now, or even though you were wrong. Also,
there has to be some kind of commonality where you
understand again the perspective. So when I was sharing earlier
that we always have this bigger perspective of what's important,
(28:37):
I think that that's where Cabala really helps. For sure,
we're not going around saying, well, you know, Cabala says,
but doesn't underlying um approach both to how we we
both of our lives right, We're constantly chipping away at
the ego, We're constantly trying to thrive to be better individually.
So if you have that and then you meet the
relationship from that space, then naturally it's going to work
(28:59):
if you have all the other boxes checked as well.
I don't think I have all the other boxes checked,
and I definitely it's interesting. My husband and I share
many common approaches to the world, and I think it
really helps our marriage to work. But we do not
share a spiritual life. Neither of us really have much
of a spiritual life, and religion has played zero role
(29:22):
in his life growing up and pretty much zero role
in mine. So as a shared agnosticism, there you go,
except we don't. We're not even passionately agnostic either. But
you're definitely not passionately atheistic because you're not proselytizing, you know.
I think that if you both were curious though about
spirituality and you studied it together, you started reading up
(29:45):
on it, like I think that would be a great
opportunity to create another connection in a new closeness and
maybe discover something that you both didn't realize that you love.
I think that, yeah. I think that's also what keeps
marriage is healthy and alive. It's constantly looking, you know.
I remember after we had Josh, we were again we
were really so rob but we decided that we're going
to go and have some fun because everything was so heavy.
(30:07):
And that's another formula for a great relationships. Laughter and levity.
I mean, we take ourselves so seriously and taking so
sim it's not such a big deal, and not everything
is such a big deal. So we took up um
ballroom dancing, we took up tennis. I mean we were
but but after like a month, we were exhausted because
every night of the week we were doing something new.
But we laughed about that schedule and about creating ways
(30:28):
to connect because what happens is, you know, everybody has
their own day pretty much, and then if you have
the kids in the mix, and then if you don't
take time actually come back together and reconnect and find
that space where you had fun when you first met,
right and where you were talking about ideas and dreams
of the future and what your life would be like
together or for yourselves. Even that shouldn't die, That should
keep growing and expanding as you do, because that's what
(30:51):
we do as human beings. So to not share that
with your partner, either you're gonna keep it to yourself
or you're going to completely shut down. You're gonna share
it with your girlfriend, and then that just creates more space.
But also, you, guys, were you kept growing because you
were learning new things. And I think so many couples
just getting ruts by repeating the same behavior, like you
were out dancing or playing tennis, but you could have
(31:12):
just come home, had dinner, watched TV, and go in
to bed, right. But I do think in order to
keep a relationship alive, if if you let it go
stagnant and you just do the same thing every night
for thirty years, it's not going to stay together for
too much longer than that. Or you will, but you'll
be miserable. Yeah yeah, um, So this is Joll's favorite question,
but I'm gonna ask it for because she hasn't gotten
(31:33):
to it yet. Sex. I jumped ahead. I read your
sex chapter one, I admitted now. First, actually not first,
I read some of the me chapter and then I
saw the sex chapter and I was like, mmmm, I
want to know what the policies. So let's talk about sex.
How big a part of the relationship with the romantic
(31:56):
relationship do you think it is, and how can we
make it better? I think that it is a big part.
People don't like to speak about it for some reason.
Um usually but um, I think that sex is love
and motion. So it's a natural way to express how
you feel about one another. And it's also a natural
way to have pleasure and say what you enjoy. And
(32:19):
I think that there's a lot of I still think
that there's taboo of you know, women saying that they
enjoyed it, that they should have an orgasm or you know.
I think that it's very there's a reason that we
can do it, and it's a reason that it's pleasurable,
and it's not just to create children um Cobalistically, there's
also a period where there's separation during the mental menstrual
cycle and for a little bit after that, and spiritually speaking,
(32:41):
I think that it's a very healthy thing to do
because then when you come back together, there's a you know,
you prepare for one another. It's kind of like having
a wedding night over again. And I think that that
really keeps a relationship healthy and fresh in a sex
life also fun still when you have this time away
from each other and then you have a time where
you come back, and I think it builds desire because
(33:01):
it's a big part of wanting to be with your partner.
Also because if you have something all the time, take
it for granted. Yeah, And it's also there's no desire, right,
You only desire something you don't have, and then you
plan it. I mean I think that we can sometimes, sorry,
you can sometimes be difficult to convince your husband that
taking time off from sex will actually make it better.
(33:22):
How I don't know that there are many men who
ascribe to this. If you let's put it this way.
Let's say this. Let's say you said to your husband,
let's take a week off, and then when we come
back together, let's say on Tuesday, we're gonna make it special.
Let's make dinner reservation somewhere. I'm going to take like
a bath, and you make it. Believe me on board,
He's actually even more excited because it's different and it's
(33:46):
and he'd be curious. Yeah, And again, not everybody has
to do that. I'm just saying that there are certain
things to do to build those things that we just
talked about, like desire curiosity, which just sounds very mindful.
And that's bringing lots of lots of awareness to your
sex life because it stops and starts at a certain point.
So maybe maybe it's not about the schedule or your
(34:09):
cycle or always and I, like you said, it's the
whole book is about bringing awareness to all aspects of
relationship because usually a very neglected I love that I'm
going to practice bringing awareness to all areas of my relationship.
So thank you very much, Monic has been a real
pleasure speaking with you. Thank you, thank you for having me.
(34:30):
Monica's new book is Rethink Love, Three Steps to being
the One, attracting the one, and becoming one. Connect with
her at Rethink Life dot today and let's all be
mindful in our relationships. The Road to Somewhere is recorded
in New York City. Make sure to share, subscribe, rate,
(34:52):
and review us. We would love to hear from you.
Where are you on your journey? Connect with us on Facebook, Instagram,
and Twitter at pod to Somewhere and email us at
Road to Somewhere at iHeartMedia dot com. Special thanks to
Alicia Haywood are incredible producer. Thanks everyone for joining us
on the road to Somewhere. We're available on the I
(35:15):
Heart Radio app, on Apple podcast, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
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