April 11, 2024 • 28 mins
This creamy condiment adds a pop of color and flavor to salads and sandwiches alike – but its origin story isn’t so magnanimous. Anney and Lauren dip into the many competing histories and recipes for Thousand Island dressing.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm any
Reco and I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Learned vocal bumb and today we have an episode for
you about Thousand Island dressing.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Mm hmmm, yep, m hm.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind, Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I don't think there was. I I think I was
maybe it was on our list, or maybe I was
just sort of browsing aimlessly mm hmm, as we do
through lists of food stuffs and uh, and came across
I was like, Oh, this story is weird, or the
(00:50):
number of stories about it is weird. All of the
stories by themselves are pretty you know, pretty average in
terms of weirdness.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to say I had to
have a real like, let me sit with this for
a minute, because originally I was like, no, hate Thousand Islands. Yeah,
(01:19):
but then it's like, I think you're thinking of Ranch. Oh,
and I'm actually not sure I have a clear I'm
sure I've had it, but I'm not sure I have
a clear association taste with Thousand Island. And I've already
waited it because of my dislike of Ranch and Mayo.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So I think I might be cool with it.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I'm going to give it because I had a whole
thing and here that I deleted.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I was like, wait, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, it's definitely dissimilar from ranch in that Ranch tends
to be white in color and Thousand Island tends to
be pink to orange in color. So like visually pretty
immediately identifiable as not Ranch.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Right, But I feel like, also, I know I've told
this story before, but for me, Red Lobster was a
fancy blazer, you wit, and when they would give you
the salad before your meal, you had two options, and
it was vinaigrette, which I always got, and then I
believe the other one was Thousand Islands, but I always
(02:28):
thought it was ranch for some reason, so they've just
become really conflated in my brain. But I always went
for the vineagrettes, and my brothers and Dad, I always
went for the ranch slash thousand Island, which I also
thought had an S at the end of it. So
if I make that mistake, I apologize. I thought it
was a thousand Islands.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Well, the name of the island chain is thousand Islands,
the name of the dressing is singular.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Trying to confuse me, trip me up, and they certainly did.
I had to go back in and check it several times.
Do you have any love for the thousand times?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
You know? I don't think I've ever had it on
a salad. I think I've only ever had it as
a sandwich topping. I am pretty familiar with a with
a ruben pretty familiar or not like yeah, like like
a as like a burger topping.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, yeah, which we'll touch on very briefly. But I didn't.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I didn't realize it was such a big sandwich tapping. Well,
past episodes you can see Ranch. It's their good friend
Ben Bolan who came out very strongly against Ranch. Yeah, Mayo,
in which I came out very strongly against Mayo, Ketchup Worcester, Sure, Sauce,
(03:57):
Iceberg Lettuce.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
We have done an episode on Ceason, right, Caesar salad?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I think so, yeah, I believe we have.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I think we have. I'm going to go with we have,
and that's just how it is.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, there's no way of finding out.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
So I feel like I remember pretty clearly talking about
the difference between Caesar salad that I probably added red
lobster and caesar salad.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
That like good caesar salad.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, that sounds bad, like a nice the dressing when
it's like fresh. Yeah, yeah, all right, I'm digging myself
in a hole. Let's talk about thousand Island. This brings
us to our question.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, sure, yes, definitely, yeah yeah, come away, come away
from the hole, Annie.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yes, thousand Island dressing? What is it?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Well, a thousand Island dressing is a type of condiment
that can be made a number of ways, but you're
typically looking at a base of mayonnaise flavored with tomato,
ketchup and worstershyre sauce, and given a little bit of
a pop with some fine chopped pickles. This will create
this like thick, creamy, tangy, lightly sweet, slightly salty, and
funky condiment with a little bit of textural interest in
(05:08):
a kind of pinkish orange color. You can add a
lot of other flavorings and mixins to make it tangier
or sweeter, or spicy or kind of pike to taste.
It served chilled as a dressing for fresh leafy salads,
particularly with crunchy iceberg lettuce. It's also used as a
topping on usually hot sandwiches and then as a dip
(05:30):
for like French fries or whatever else you like dipping.
It's sort of fun because it has these contrasting flavors
and textures built in. But it's also fairly gentle, like
it's just nice. It adds a little something. Eating it
is like is like going to a playground with no
sharp corners, like and that good like rubbery ground cover,
(05:54):
you know, like like not like the playgrounds that we
grew up with, but this one wants you to have
like a nice time.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Ah, that is true. I have some playground memori where
I'm like, I'm not sure how that.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Flew, and and nothing but wood chips that you could
get the best splinters on. Yeah, as far as the
eye could see. Oh dear, okay a thousand island. Let's
break down those ingredients a little bit. So. Mayo is
(06:27):
a creamy condiment that's made without cream by emulsifying egg
yolk and oil with some kind of acid, usually vinegar
or lemon juice, so it's thick and creamy and a
little bit tangy. You could sub in other similar dressing
bases if you wanted to. Ketchup is a smooth, seasoned
like cooked down tomato pure that brings more tang and
some sweetness and saltiness. Worcester share is savory, salty, fermented
(06:51):
liquid sauce traditionally made with fish and spices. Pickles in
this case meaning pickled Cucumbers, of course, come in like
a lot of flavor, range from tart to sweet. People
use whatever their preferences, and when they're chopped fine and
distributed throughout the dressing, it's sort of like the bubbles
and bubble tea, almost just like a tiny little pop
crunch of flavor. But as I said, that is just
(07:14):
the beginning. The pickle element is in fact often pickle relish,
which is a prepared condiment of chopped pickles, often mixed
with other chopped vegs like sweet or spicy peppers or onions.
Other mixin's include those things on their own, or fine
chopped hard boiled egg, olive, nuts, garlic, or fresh herbs.
(07:34):
You can add tomato paste or even tomato soup concentrate,
either instead of or in addition to the ketchup. You
can spice it up a bit with some hot sauce
or chili sauce, or mustard or black pepper. You can
give it more tang with a squeeze of whatever fresh
citrus you like or your preferred vinegar. You can season
it with paprika, which also adds a little bit more
red orange color in there. Yeah, or celery seed, or
(07:57):
sweeten it with sugar. I've also seen recipes that argue
that ketchup does not belong in it at all, or
that chili sauce is necessary, or like any number of
other variations. People have opinions about this one. We love opinions.
Yes and yeah. Here in the States, it is really
(08:18):
common as a sauce on like heavier, usually beef based sandwiches, burgers, reubens,
patty melts, salty meaty things like that. Yeah, to provide
a popa flavor and a creamy barrier between the bread
and any juicy ingredients to keep the bread from going soggy. Yeah.
A lot of fast food joints like McDonald's and In
and Out include it on their sort of fancier than
(08:38):
standard burgers.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Usually.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yes, it is the special sauce on a big Mac.
It can be considered a little bit old fashioned, but
in like a classic, dependable sort of way. I think
it's definitely offered as a salad dressing in like traditional
American restaurants like steakhouses and family diners and buffets. People
love it on a heck and wedge salad, y'all, and
it is also used in cold chopped salads like coal
(09:03):
slat or potato or pasta salads sometimes. Yeah, there are
several brands of dressings that offer shelf stable variants, but
it's also made at home. I understand it's also available
commercially in other parts of the world, where it sometimes
goes by other names. If this sounds familiar and it's
(09:23):
a little bit more than like fry sauce, I know
that fry sauce is a thing, but this is like
fry sauce with stuff, So yeah, y'all have to let
us know. It is also very similar to some other
American salad dressings, like so called Russian dressing, which tends
to be spicier with ingredients like horse radish, and French dressing,
which usually doesn't call for mayo and is only sometimes creamy.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Neither, by the way, have any particular ties to Russia
or to France, but of course.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Of course not. Well, what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Really depends on how it's made. It can be colorically
dense if it's got a bunch of oil and sugar
in it. You know, like watch your portion sizes. Eat
a vegetable. If that vegetable is a wedge salad that
you've poured Thousand Island dressing over, then you're you're you're
on your way. You're doing a good job.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
You're on your way. It does. It does remind me
of sort of the like.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Those party platters you get and it's got like raw
broccoli and cauliflower and all that stuff, and then it's
ranch dressing.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, and it's like the only way we can eat
these things.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Tricking us with right, Yeah, yes, Well, we do have
some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
We've got We've got a couple, all right. So I've
seen Thousand Island Dressing listed as like either the fourth
or fifth most popular salad dressing in the US. Yeah. Yeah,
And this dressing is named for an archipelago chain of
islands on the Saint Lawrence River, which is what connects
North America's Great Lakes in between the US and Canada
(11:06):
with the Atlantic Ocean to the east. These islands are
pretty far inland, and there are officially one eight hundred
and sixty four of them along a stretch of about
fifty miles of river. That's about eighty kilometers. And if
you're wondering what counts, the thousand islands include any bit
(11:26):
of land that in this area that peaks up above
the water line all year round and is home to
at least one living tree. Wow specific yeah, okay, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
We do have quite a complicated and messy history for you.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
We do, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from a quick break
for a word from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Thank you sponsoring, Yes, thank you. Okay, yes, So, Lauren
mourned me when suggesting this topic. It's a lot of
stories behind thousand dial in dressing, okay, But there are
two main theories about the origins, and we're gonna go
(12:26):
into some of the other theories as well. You're just
gonna get a little sampling of all these theories, a
little little smatter, yeah, a little smatter that you might
duck into some.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And also I'm like begging listeners to write in about
any of this. But the story you'll get if you
go on a boat tour of this island chain which
is between New York and Canada known as a Thousand
Islands is that the namesake dressing was once a very
bougie item.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
It was like for the rich.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
This story goes that sometime in the early nineteen hundreds,
while visiting their summer palace slash home but kind of
a palace, kind of a balance, kind of a palace
located on one of these islands, Bolt Castle, George Bolt,
who was the owner of the Waldorf Astoria, and his
wife Louise, were out on a leisurely yacht ride. When
(13:22):
time for lunch arrived, the chef at the Bolt Castle,
Oscar Sheercree, realized he'd forgotten the dressing for the salad. Yes,
so he looked at the ingredients that he did have
and he set to work whipping up something that was
composed of Mayo ketchup, Worcester sauce and a hard boiled egg,
and there you go, Thousand Island dressing is born. There
(13:44):
are a lot of variations just on this particular story.
Oh yeah, oh yeah yeah. And it's actually really fascinating
And it was one of those things where I had
to keep reminding myself we are at food show. But
according to some sources, the Bolts loved the dressing so
much that they were the ones that gave it the
name because they loved the Thousand Islands so much that
they named the dressing after it. And over the years
(14:07):
they served it at many gatherings, and the chef that
created it became a chef at the Waldorf Astoria, where
it was popularized. And yeah, you can still see this castle,
by the way. It's still a popular tourist destination. According
to legend, George was head over heels in love with
the Wiz and commissioned this castle on a heartshaped island.
(14:27):
I believe they made it into a heart shaped island, yes,
and there was supposed to be many hearts that would
be placed throughout. However, she allegedly died before she ever
saw it finished, and George refused to ever step foot
on the island again. So in that version of the story,
they were visiting like the construction site when this happened.
(14:50):
Yes again, listeners, if you've ever been, please write.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
In yeah, yeah, it sounds from the descriptions I've read,
it sounds lot like oh heck, the what's the big
Manor house in Asheville outside of Ashevillemore the Beltmore. It
sounds to me a lot like the Beltmore in terms
of just like the era when it was constructed and
the era of construction that it was based on being
(15:15):
centuries apart, right, and just like like like rich people
being like, you know what, I deserve a castle, Let
me build one right here.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yes, And this this area was a very popular place
for rich people to go vacation or build homes during
this time. And they still a lot of those islands
are owned by families that purchased them up around this time.
From what I understand, so sounds nice.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
I'd like to visit myself one day.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
However, though some dispute this tale is more of a
fun tourism story as opposed to like the actual truth.
One big dissenter is a fishing guide from the area
named Alan Bennett. I couldn't find the pronunciation of the name,
so I hope that's close. He claims to have found
the original recipe four thousand Island in the Herald Hotel,
(16:08):
which he purchased in nineteen seventy two. In the Harald Hotel,
which was later renamed the Thousand Islands Inn Hotel, is
a restaurant and inn located in the small tourist town
of Clayton, New York. According to Bennis, he found a
recipe in a safe. It was a single sheet of
paper for Sophia's sauce. Sophia and her husband, George Lalande
(16:32):
used to own the End towards the end of the
nineteenth century, so Vennis. He showed the cooks the recipe
and they were like, yeah, that's Thousand Island essentially in
Venice's version of the story, which I couldn't really verify,
it sounded to me like this is just what he
thought but didn't necessarily have stuff to back it up.
(16:53):
Sophia would make this dressing for her husband to dip
fish in, who would share it with local fishermen. At
one point, he shared it with actress may Erwin, who
vacationed in the area and would go on George's fishing
trips with him. And Erwin loved it and convinced them
to give her the recipe, and she in turn shared
the recipe with the Bolts.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yes, also again, we're a food show. But I got
really into reading about her life. Very interesting.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, yeah, like like like vaudeville star and early film stars.
So super interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Mm hmm. Bennis started bottling Sophia's dressing and sells it
at local stores. One thing that really tickled me about
this though, as according to the most recent owner, only
three people have seen I believe three or four people
have seen the actual piece of paper, but.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
You can see it online. I don't know. It just
kind of cracked me up.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Okay, So others suspect both of these stories could have
elements of truth and may have happened separately and simultaneously. Ish,
especially because at the time, with the advent of refrigerated
train cars, America was really going all in on salads
and that entailed experimenting with a lot of dressings. And
(18:11):
mayo was a popular ingredient for this because it covered
the bitter flavors of some varieties of greens, especially in
the New York area in this case, and at the time,
it was still difficult to get fresh greens, so salads
were associated with the rich.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah of Russian and French dressings also came about during
this period.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yes, in one alternate version of the Sofia story, the
the Lawns were not owners of the inn. But Sofia
shared it with the owners at the time, the Bertrand family,
who then passed it on to May Irwin. The letter
that contains the original recipe was from Sofia to the groundskeeper.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Of the inn.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
It sounds like a lot of people wanted it is
what I'm getting sure? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Irwin's letter meanwhile, of the recipe that documents this recipee
is in the Thousand Islands Museum and specifies that it
was served at Bolt Castle and also this hotel.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yes okay. As we mentioned, though.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
These are not the only theories the contenders at all.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
No birds. Another local story tells of this French chef
who wound up working for Bolt, contributing a recipe for
this lemon orange onion vinegarette with olives and Worcester shear
sauce in it to Sheercree's kitchen, and then Sheercree taking
the name that this French guy had come up with
(19:39):
for the dressing Thousand Island Dressing, and eventually applied that
name to his own Mayo Ketchup dressing.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Uh huh. Well.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Another theory comes out of the Blackstone Hotel in Chicago,
where chef Theo Rooms claimed he invented Thousand Island Dressing
for the nineteen ten grand opening of that hotel. In
nineteen twenty five, Rooms was given an award for this creation,
an award that is now housed in the Chicago Culinary Museum.
(20:12):
And in nineteen fifteen, a newspaper published a recipe for
what they called Blackstone dressing.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Another Chicago theory involves the head chef of the Drake Hotel,
and this story goes that this chef's wife came up
with the name for the dressing because the chopped bits
in it reminded her of the Thousand Islands. Oh yeah,
there was a whole PBS documentary that came out in
(20:39):
twenty twelve that set out to solve the mystery of
the true origin story. They sway towards the Sophia story.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
But you know, I love that. I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Meanwhile, however it came about it, it was pretty popular
in the early nineteen hundreds on recipes for what we
would recognize today as Thousand Island dressing. We're appearing in
print as early as nineteen twelve in newspapers from Dallas,
Texas and Kansas City, Missouri. So other side of the country.
(21:14):
Kind of but yeah, fascinating. Yeah, and it began showing
up in cookbooks by about nineteen sixteen. Yeah, and still
popular today.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Here in America. As you said, often in sandwiches. And
if you're curious about how riffs one thousand Island ended
up on so many fast food sandwiches, it's a future episode.
I wanted to like go over some of the hits,
but I was like, no, I can't, I can't do this,
So future episode. But the short answer is that many
(21:49):
people think it is. I think it is in thanks
to the popularity of the ruben, which typically features either
a Thousand Island dressing or Russian dressing. And so it
was like, oh, it were on a sandwich, which over
the sandwich is we add it to Yeah? Sure, sure,
And it sounds like it just lends itself to it.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
It does.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, I mean it's it's a little bit, a little
bit more flavorful than straight mayo and still gives you
a nice lipid barrier, you know, between juicy ingredients on
the sandwich and the bread. So yeah, yeah, makes sense,
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Well again, listeners, if you have been to any of
these museums, these places.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
If yeah, and if and if any of y'all listeners
from other parts of the world or who have traveled,
if you have seen this dressing other places, I would
love to know what other parts of the world think
about it. It seems very American to me. It seems
like very heck and American.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
But you know.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Everyone, everyone likes a creamy dip, right, Yes, oh yes,
I remember many a freak's experience when I was in Brussels,
and it's just like twenty four sauces I can dip
my fries into and plenty of them were creamy. Yes,
oh so good. Well, yeah, that is what we have
(23:22):
to say about one thousand island dressing for now.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yep. We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with listeners.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yes, yeah, island tour.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah right, A.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Nice, A nice salad you're out on like these islands.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Nothing a breeze going, Yeah, come on.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Good crisp salad. It sounds lovely. It does sound lovely.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Speaking of we have gotten some really amazing emails carrot Cake.
I'm so happy about this. This is only a taste
more to come, but we have two for you today.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Both include pictures.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Barbie wrote, I just listened to the carrot Cake episode
and your references to carrot cake being old fashioned. My
husband and I had carrot cake for our wedding in
January nineteen eighty nine. It was his favorite flavor and
the cake was delicious. The bride and groom on top
were penguin candles. It's a priceless memory. Thank you for
(24:50):
reminding me. I have attached photos and the cake is beautiful.
It is glorious. Oh yeah, it's like it looks like
ice themed, like snow and ice, and it's like teared
and there's some very adorable penguins on top.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah yeah, just just little, just little, just little round
buddies just being just being round. Love them, love.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Them so adorable.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Oh my gosh, really cute.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yes, thank you for sure you.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yes. Evan wrote, I just listened to the carrot Cake
episode and felt the need to share a pic of
the carrot cake my partner made me for my birthday
last year, decorated with real candied rainbow carrots, they were
beautiful and delicious, a bit sweet to eat them all,
but we'll workshop them for this year. Real carrots can
be used to decorate. Also, a carrot cake with butter
(25:43):
cream or any frosting other than cream cheese is objectively wrong.
I've added a pick of our dog, Archer with his
favorite after dinner snack, because I'll take any chance to
show him off. He was effing stoked. His face says,
take the picture already so I can get paid.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Oh, I love it.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
So this is in reference to we were talking about
how carrot cake is usually one of the few desserts
that has a image of carrots on it to denote
the carrotyes.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, sure, so you don't.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Normally it's harder to put like real carrots as opposed
to like strawberries, yeah, on a cake.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Or like chocolate shavings or something.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
But yeah, yeah, yeah, this is a beautiful You're just
you're just an awe over there.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah. So what's going on with this cake is that
there are little little kind of like rosettes made out
of like like long strings of carrot, you know, like
like a like a I'm assuming that what happens, and
I did see recipes for this when we were when
we were doing the reading. But rite like you take
like a like a long thin peeling or strip of
(26:49):
carrot and soak it in sugar like sugar water for
for a while and then yeah, just kind of roll
it up and put it on top of the cake.
And if you get them in multiple colors, then they
can be really lovely. Yeah, it's a great idea. And
it still doesn't really say carrot to me in the
way that a little cartoon cartoony frosting carrot does. But
(27:14):
I love the concept. I do too, and it's really beautiful.
There's a couple of different colors of carrot going on here,
just very.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Artfully decorated and it's very creative and I I really
I think it's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, it's off to your partner, indeed.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And I do love your strong opinion about butter cream
or any other frosting, yeah thing cream, cheese.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, it's important.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Stick to your guns man, absolutely, And Archer is adorable.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yes, yes, yes, Well, thanks to both of these listeners
for writing in. If you would like to write to
as you can, our email is Hello atsavorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm any
Reco and I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Learned vocal bumb and today we have an episode for
you about Thousand Island dressing.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Mm hmmm, yep, m hm.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind, Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I don't think there was. I I think I was
maybe it was on our list, or maybe I was
just sort of browsing aimlessly mm hmm, as we do
through lists of food stuffs and uh, and came across
I was like, Oh, this story is weird, or the
(00:50):
number of stories about it is weird. All of the
stories by themselves are pretty you know, pretty average in
terms of weirdness.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to say I had to
have a real like, let me sit with this for
a minute, because originally I was like, no, hate Thousand Islands. Yeah,
(01:19):
but then it's like, I think you're thinking of Ranch. Oh,
and I'm actually not sure I have a clear I'm
sure I've had it, but I'm not sure I have
a clear association taste with Thousand Island. And I've already
waited it because of my dislike of Ranch and Mayo.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So I think I might be cool with it.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I'm going to give it because I had a whole
thing and here that I deleted.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I was like, wait, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, it's definitely dissimilar from ranch in that Ranch tends
to be white in color and Thousand Island tends to
be pink to orange in color. So like visually pretty
immediately identifiable as not Ranch.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Right, But I feel like, also, I know I've told
this story before, but for me, Red Lobster was a
fancy blazer, you wit, and when they would give you
the salad before your meal, you had two options, and
it was vinaigrette, which I always got, and then I
believe the other one was Thousand Islands, but I always
(02:28):
thought it was ranch for some reason, so they've just
become really conflated in my brain. But I always went
for the vineagrettes, and my brothers and Dad, I always
went for the ranch slash thousand Island, which I also
thought had an S at the end of it. So
if I make that mistake, I apologize. I thought it
was a thousand Islands.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Well, the name of the island chain is thousand Islands,
the name of the dressing is singular.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Trying to confuse me, trip me up, and they certainly did.
I had to go back in and check it several times.
Do you have any love for the thousand times?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
You know? I don't think I've ever had it on
a salad. I think I've only ever had it as
a sandwich topping. I am pretty familiar with a with
a ruben pretty familiar or not like yeah, like like
a as like a burger topping.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, yeah, which we'll touch on very briefly. But I didn't.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I didn't realize it was such a big sandwich tapping. Well,
past episodes you can see Ranch. It's their good friend
Ben Bolan who came out very strongly against Ranch. Yeah, Mayo,
in which I came out very strongly against Mayo, Ketchup Worcester, Sure, Sauce,
(03:57):
Iceberg Lettuce.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
We have done an episode on Ceason, right, Caesar salad?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I think so, yeah, I believe we have.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I think we have. I'm going to go with we have,
and that's just how it is.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, there's no way of finding out.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
So I feel like I remember pretty clearly talking about
the difference between Caesar salad that I probably added red
lobster and caesar salad.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
That like good caesar salad.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, that sounds bad, like a nice the dressing when
it's like fresh. Yeah, yeah, all right, I'm digging myself
in a hole. Let's talk about thousand Island. This brings
us to our question.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, sure, yes, definitely, yeah yeah, come away, come away
from the hole, Annie.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yes, thousand Island dressing? What is it?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Well, a thousand Island dressing is a type of condiment
that can be made a number of ways, but you're
typically looking at a base of mayonnaise flavored with tomato,
ketchup and worstershyre sauce, and given a little bit of
a pop with some fine chopped pickles. This will create
this like thick, creamy, tangy, lightly sweet, slightly salty, and
funky condiment with a little bit of textural interest in
(05:08):
a kind of pinkish orange color. You can add a
lot of other flavorings and mixins to make it tangier
or sweeter, or spicy or kind of pike to taste.
It served chilled as a dressing for fresh leafy salads,
particularly with crunchy iceberg lettuce. It's also used as a
topping on usually hot sandwiches and then as a dip
(05:30):
for like French fries or whatever else you like dipping.
It's sort of fun because it has these contrasting flavors
and textures built in. But it's also fairly gentle, like
it's just nice. It adds a little something. Eating it
is like is like going to a playground with no
sharp corners, like and that good like rubbery ground cover,
(05:54):
you know, like like not like the playgrounds that we
grew up with, but this one wants you to have
like a nice time.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Ah, that is true. I have some playground memori where
I'm like, I'm not sure how that.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Flew, and and nothing but wood chips that you could
get the best splinters on. Yeah, as far as the
eye could see. Oh dear, okay a thousand island. Let's
break down those ingredients a little bit. So. Mayo is
(06:27):
a creamy condiment that's made without cream by emulsifying egg
yolk and oil with some kind of acid, usually vinegar
or lemon juice, so it's thick and creamy and a
little bit tangy. You could sub in other similar dressing
bases if you wanted to. Ketchup is a smooth, seasoned
like cooked down tomato pure that brings more tang and
some sweetness and saltiness. Worcester share is savory, salty, fermented
(06:51):
liquid sauce traditionally made with fish and spices. Pickles in
this case meaning pickled Cucumbers, of course, come in like
a lot of flavor, range from tart to sweet. People
use whatever their preferences, and when they're chopped fine and
distributed throughout the dressing, it's sort of like the bubbles
and bubble tea, almost just like a tiny little pop
crunch of flavor. But as I said, that is just
(07:14):
the beginning. The pickle element is in fact often pickle relish,
which is a prepared condiment of chopped pickles, often mixed
with other chopped vegs like sweet or spicy peppers or onions.
Other mixin's include those things on their own, or fine
chopped hard boiled egg, olive, nuts, garlic, or fresh herbs.
(07:34):
You can add tomato paste or even tomato soup concentrate,
either instead of or in addition to the ketchup. You
can spice it up a bit with some hot sauce
or chili sauce, or mustard or black pepper. You can
give it more tang with a squeeze of whatever fresh
citrus you like or your preferred vinegar. You can season
it with paprika, which also adds a little bit more
red orange color in there. Yeah, or celery seed, or
(07:57):
sweeten it with sugar. I've also seen recipes that argue
that ketchup does not belong in it at all, or
that chili sauce is necessary, or like any number of
other variations. People have opinions about this one. We love opinions.
Yes and yeah. Here in the States, it is really
(08:18):
common as a sauce on like heavier, usually beef based sandwiches, burgers, reubens,
patty melts, salty meaty things like that. Yeah, to provide
a popa flavor and a creamy barrier between the bread
and any juicy ingredients to keep the bread from going soggy. Yeah.
A lot of fast food joints like McDonald's and In
and Out include it on their sort of fancier than
(08:38):
standard burgers.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Usually.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yes, it is the special sauce on a big Mac.
It can be considered a little bit old fashioned, but
in like a classic, dependable sort of way. I think
it's definitely offered as a salad dressing in like traditional
American restaurants like steakhouses and family diners and buffets. People
love it on a heck and wedge salad, y'all, and
it is also used in cold chopped salads like coal
(09:03):
slat or potato or pasta salads sometimes. Yeah, there are
several brands of dressings that offer shelf stable variants, but
it's also made at home. I understand it's also available
commercially in other parts of the world, where it sometimes
goes by other names. If this sounds familiar and it's
(09:23):
a little bit more than like fry sauce, I know
that fry sauce is a thing, but this is like
fry sauce with stuff, So yeah, y'all have to let
us know. It is also very similar to some other
American salad dressings, like so called Russian dressing, which tends
to be spicier with ingredients like horse radish, and French dressing,
which usually doesn't call for mayo and is only sometimes creamy.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Neither, by the way, have any particular ties to Russia
or to France, but of course.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Of course not. Well, what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Really depends on how it's made. It can be colorically
dense if it's got a bunch of oil and sugar
in it. You know, like watch your portion sizes. Eat
a vegetable. If that vegetable is a wedge salad that
you've poured Thousand Island dressing over, then you're you're you're
on your way. You're doing a good job.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
You're on your way. It does. It does remind me
of sort of the like.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Those party platters you get and it's got like raw
broccoli and cauliflower and all that stuff, and then it's
ranch dressing.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, and it's like the only way we can eat
these things.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Tricking us with right, Yeah, yes, Well, we do have
some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
We've got We've got a couple, all right. So I've
seen Thousand Island Dressing listed as like either the fourth
or fifth most popular salad dressing in the US. Yeah. Yeah,
And this dressing is named for an archipelago chain of
islands on the Saint Lawrence River, which is what connects
North America's Great Lakes in between the US and Canada
(11:06):
with the Atlantic Ocean to the east. These islands are
pretty far inland, and there are officially one eight hundred
and sixty four of them along a stretch of about
fifty miles of river. That's about eighty kilometers. And if
you're wondering what counts, the thousand islands include any bit
(11:26):
of land that in this area that peaks up above
the water line all year round and is home to
at least one living tree. Wow specific yeah, okay, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
We do have quite a complicated and messy history for you.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
We do, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from a quick break
for a word from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Thank you sponsoring, Yes, thank you. Okay, yes, So, Lauren
mourned me when suggesting this topic. It's a lot of
stories behind thousand dial in dressing, okay, But there are
two main theories about the origins, and we're gonna go
(12:26):
into some of the other theories as well. You're just
gonna get a little sampling of all these theories, a
little little smatter, yeah, a little smatter that you might
duck into some.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And also I'm like begging listeners to write in about
any of this. But the story you'll get if you
go on a boat tour of this island chain which
is between New York and Canada known as a Thousand
Islands is that the namesake dressing was once a very
bougie item.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
It was like for the rich.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
This story goes that sometime in the early nineteen hundreds,
while visiting their summer palace slash home but kind of
a palace, kind of a balance, kind of a palace
located on one of these islands, Bolt Castle, George Bolt,
who was the owner of the Waldorf Astoria, and his
wife Louise, were out on a leisurely yacht ride. When
(13:22):
time for lunch arrived, the chef at the Bolt Castle,
Oscar Sheercree, realized he'd forgotten the dressing for the salad. Yes,
so he looked at the ingredients that he did have
and he set to work whipping up something that was
composed of Mayo ketchup, Worcester sauce and a hard boiled egg,
and there you go, Thousand Island dressing is born. There
(13:44):
are a lot of variations just on this particular story.
Oh yeah, oh yeah yeah. And it's actually really fascinating
And it was one of those things where I had
to keep reminding myself we are at food show. But
according to some sources, the Bolts loved the dressing so
much that they were the ones that gave it the
name because they loved the Thousand Islands so much that
they named the dressing after it. And over the years
(14:07):
they served it at many gatherings, and the chef that
created it became a chef at the Waldorf Astoria, where
it was popularized. And yeah, you can still see this castle,
by the way. It's still a popular tourist destination. According
to legend, George was head over heels in love with
the Wiz and commissioned this castle on a heartshaped island.
(14:27):
I believe they made it into a heart shaped island, yes,
and there was supposed to be many hearts that would
be placed throughout. However, she allegedly died before she ever
saw it finished, and George refused to ever step foot
on the island again. So in that version of the story,
they were visiting like the construction site when this happened.
(14:50):
Yes again, listeners, if you've ever been, please write.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
In yeah, yeah, it sounds from the descriptions I've read,
it sounds lot like oh heck, the what's the big
Manor house in Asheville outside of Ashevillemore the Beltmore. It
sounds to me a lot like the Beltmore in terms
of just like the era when it was constructed and
the era of construction that it was based on being
(15:15):
centuries apart, right, and just like like like rich people
being like, you know what, I deserve a castle, Let
me build one right here.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yes, And this this area was a very popular place
for rich people to go vacation or build homes during
this time. And they still a lot of those islands
are owned by families that purchased them up around this time.
From what I understand, so sounds nice.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
I'd like to visit myself one day.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
However, though some dispute this tale is more of a
fun tourism story as opposed to like the actual truth.
One big dissenter is a fishing guide from the area
named Alan Bennett. I couldn't find the pronunciation of the name,
so I hope that's close. He claims to have found
the original recipe four thousand Island in the Herald Hotel,
(16:08):
which he purchased in nineteen seventy two. In the Harald Hotel,
which was later renamed the Thousand Islands Inn Hotel, is
a restaurant and inn located in the small tourist town
of Clayton, New York. According to Bennis, he found a
recipe in a safe. It was a single sheet of
paper for Sophia's sauce. Sophia and her husband, George Lalande
(16:32):
used to own the End towards the end of the
nineteenth century, so Vennis. He showed the cooks the recipe
and they were like, yeah, that's Thousand Island essentially in
Venice's version of the story, which I couldn't really verify,
it sounded to me like this is just what he
thought but didn't necessarily have stuff to back it up.
(16:53):
Sophia would make this dressing for her husband to dip
fish in, who would share it with local fishermen. At
one point, he shared it with actress may Erwin, who
vacationed in the area and would go on George's fishing
trips with him. And Erwin loved it and convinced them
to give her the recipe, and she in turn shared
the recipe with the Bolts.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yes, also again, we're a food show. But I got
really into reading about her life. Very interesting.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, yeah, like like like vaudeville star and early film stars.
So super interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Mm hmm. Bennis started bottling Sophia's dressing and sells it
at local stores. One thing that really tickled me about
this though, as according to the most recent owner, only
three people have seen I believe three or four people
have seen the actual piece of paper, but.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
You can see it online. I don't know. It just
kind of cracked me up.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Okay, So others suspect both of these stories could have
elements of truth and may have happened separately and simultaneously. Ish,
especially because at the time, with the advent of refrigerated
train cars, America was really going all in on salads
and that entailed experimenting with a lot of dressings. And
(18:11):
mayo was a popular ingredient for this because it covered
the bitter flavors of some varieties of greens, especially in
the New York area in this case, and at the time,
it was still difficult to get fresh greens, so salads
were associated with the rich.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah of Russian and French dressings also came about during
this period.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yes, in one alternate version of the Sofia story, the
the Lawns were not owners of the inn. But Sofia
shared it with the owners at the time, the Bertrand family,
who then passed it on to May Irwin. The letter
that contains the original recipe was from Sofia to the groundskeeper.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Of the inn.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
It sounds like a lot of people wanted it is
what I'm getting sure? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Irwin's letter meanwhile, of the recipe that documents this recipee
is in the Thousand Islands Museum and specifies that it
was served at Bolt Castle and also this hotel.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yes okay. As we mentioned, though.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
These are not the only theories the contenders at all.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
No birds. Another local story tells of this French chef
who wound up working for Bolt, contributing a recipe for
this lemon orange onion vinegarette with olives and Worcester shear
sauce in it to Sheercree's kitchen, and then Sheercree taking
the name that this French guy had come up with
(19:39):
for the dressing Thousand Island Dressing, and eventually applied that
name to his own Mayo Ketchup dressing.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Uh huh. Well.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Another theory comes out of the Blackstone Hotel in Chicago,
where chef Theo Rooms claimed he invented Thousand Island Dressing
for the nineteen ten grand opening of that hotel. In
nineteen twenty five, Rooms was given an award for this creation,
an award that is now housed in the Chicago Culinary Museum.
(20:12):
And in nineteen fifteen, a newspaper published a recipe for
what they called Blackstone dressing.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Another Chicago theory involves the head chef of the Drake Hotel,
and this story goes that this chef's wife came up
with the name for the dressing because the chopped bits
in it reminded her of the Thousand Islands. Oh yeah,
there was a whole PBS documentary that came out in
(20:39):
twenty twelve that set out to solve the mystery of
the true origin story. They sway towards the Sophia story.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
But you know, I love that. I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Meanwhile, however it came about it, it was pretty popular
in the early nineteen hundreds on recipes for what we
would recognize today as Thousand Island dressing. We're appearing in
print as early as nineteen twelve in newspapers from Dallas,
Texas and Kansas City, Missouri. So other side of the country.
(21:14):
Kind of but yeah, fascinating. Yeah, and it began showing
up in cookbooks by about nineteen sixteen. Yeah, and still
popular today.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Here in America. As you said, often in sandwiches. And
if you're curious about how riffs one thousand Island ended
up on so many fast food sandwiches, it's a future episode.
I wanted to like go over some of the hits,
but I was like, no, I can't, I can't do this,
So future episode. But the short answer is that many
(21:49):
people think it is. I think it is in thanks
to the popularity of the ruben, which typically features either
a Thousand Island dressing or Russian dressing. And so it
was like, oh, it were on a sandwich, which over
the sandwich is we add it to Yeah? Sure, sure,
And it sounds like it just lends itself to it.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
It does.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, I mean it's it's a little bit, a little
bit more flavorful than straight mayo and still gives you
a nice lipid barrier, you know, between juicy ingredients on
the sandwich and the bread. So yeah, yeah, makes sense,
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Well again, listeners, if you have been to any of
these museums, these places.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
If yeah, and if and if any of y'all listeners
from other parts of the world or who have traveled,
if you have seen this dressing other places, I would
love to know what other parts of the world think
about it. It seems very American to me. It seems
like very heck and American.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
But you know.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Everyone, everyone likes a creamy dip, right, Yes, oh yes,
I remember many a freak's experience when I was in Brussels,
and it's just like twenty four sauces I can dip
my fries into and plenty of them were creamy. Yes,
oh so good. Well, yeah, that is what we have
(23:22):
to say about one thousand island dressing for now.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yep. We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with listeners.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yes, yeah, island tour.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah right, A.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Nice, A nice salad you're out on like these islands.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Nothing a breeze going, Yeah, come on.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Good crisp salad. It sounds lovely. It does sound lovely.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Speaking of we have gotten some really amazing emails carrot Cake.
I'm so happy about this. This is only a taste
more to come, but we have two for you today.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Both include pictures.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Barbie wrote, I just listened to the carrot Cake episode
and your references to carrot cake being old fashioned. My
husband and I had carrot cake for our wedding in
January nineteen eighty nine. It was his favorite flavor and
the cake was delicious. The bride and groom on top
were penguin candles. It's a priceless memory. Thank you for
(24:50):
reminding me. I have attached photos and the cake is beautiful.
It is glorious. Oh yeah, it's like it looks like
ice themed, like snow and ice, and it's like teared
and there's some very adorable penguins on top.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah yeah, just just little, just little, just little round
buddies just being just being round. Love them, love.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Them so adorable.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Oh my gosh, really cute.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yes, thank you for sure you.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yes. Evan wrote, I just listened to the carrot Cake
episode and felt the need to share a pic of
the carrot cake my partner made me for my birthday
last year, decorated with real candied rainbow carrots, they were
beautiful and delicious, a bit sweet to eat them all,
but we'll workshop them for this year. Real carrots can
be used to decorate. Also, a carrot cake with butter
(25:43):
cream or any frosting other than cream cheese is objectively wrong.
I've added a pick of our dog, Archer with his
favorite after dinner snack, because I'll take any chance to
show him off. He was effing stoked. His face says,
take the picture already so I can get paid.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Oh, I love it.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
So this is in reference to we were talking about
how carrot cake is usually one of the few desserts
that has a image of carrots on it to denote
the carrotyes.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, sure, so you don't.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Normally it's harder to put like real carrots as opposed
to like strawberries, yeah, on a cake.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Or like chocolate shavings or something.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
But yeah, yeah, yeah, this is a beautiful You're just
you're just an awe over there.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah. So what's going on with this cake is that
there are little little kind of like rosettes made out
of like like long strings of carrot, you know, like
like a like a I'm assuming that what happens, and
I did see recipes for this when we were when
we were doing the reading. But rite like you take
like a like a long thin peeling or strip of
(26:49):
carrot and soak it in sugar like sugar water for
for a while and then yeah, just kind of roll
it up and put it on top of the cake.
And if you get them in multiple colors, then they
can be really lovely. Yeah, it's a great idea. And
it still doesn't really say carrot to me in the
way that a little cartoon cartoony frosting carrot does. But
(27:14):
I love the concept. I do too, and it's really beautiful.
There's a couple of different colors of carrot going on here,
just very.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Artfully decorated and it's very creative and I I really
I think it's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, it's off to your partner, indeed.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And I do love your strong opinion about butter cream
or any other frosting, yeah thing cream, cheese.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, it's important.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Stick to your guns man, absolutely, And Archer is adorable.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yes, yes, yes, Well, thanks to both of these listeners
for writing in. If you would like to write to
as you can, our email is Hello atsavorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Dylan Fagan
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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