September 3, 2021 • 36 mins
This tree (or bush, if you like) provides fruit for summery jams and pies – and food for the silkworm, thus placing it at the center of a lucrative global industry. Anney and Lauren smooth out the science and history of the mulberry.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren voc Obam, and today
we have an episode for you about mulberries. Yes, the
fruit that I thought was a miss something out of fantasy. Nope, Nope,
it's real. That's what I've gone to find out. And
many listeners wrote in about it after I said that
(00:29):
I thought it was a myth um, but also people
wrote in about it before. Uh, seems to have captured
many people's imagination and attention. Yeah, it's a very nostalgic
thing for for some people because in climates where it grows,
it is very prolific and you can just kind of
like shake a tree and get a whole bunch of
(00:50):
like a little handful of berries as you're walking somewhere.
And ah, yeah, um, for sure, for sure, I am
doing this. Reading made me miss my previous home here
in Atlanta, which had a side yard with um with
a whole bunch of more or less wild mulberry trees
(01:11):
in it. And so every every summer there would just
be yard berries. There would just be so many yard berries,
and I would just like, especially during the shutdown last summer,
I didn't really feel comfortable going anywhere, so I would
just be like be like doing laps around the yard
and like picking berries and um, yeah, and did you
(01:35):
do with them? Mostly I froze them because it was
like cups and cups and cups and cups of berries. Um.
But I also just poured wine over a bunch of
them and had like mulberry sangria. I'm not sure if
it counts if it's like two ingredients, but I think it.
I think it counts. Also this made me rem number
(02:00):
that UM. While I was I got to travel to
England about ten years ago. UM, and I was staying
mostly in reading and the fourteenth century abbey that happens
to be smack in the middle of what is otherwise
more or less a a very nice strip mall um
kind of town. Um. There's this fourteenth century abbey and
(02:23):
it had this beautiful century plus old mulberry tree that
was really creepy. It looked like it was about to
like start like walking across the lawn at you, like
a like a like a Tim Burton creature, um unicorn.
And yeah, yeah, and and I and I and so
I looked this tree up and it turns out it
(02:43):
collapsed recently, and so they've got a team of arborists
out there trying to help it. But I had to
just cut myself off from going down a really deep
dive about this one tree and what's been being done
about it. So anyway, Forberry Park, mulberry tree, I hope
you're doing okay, are thoughts are out? Yeah, we're all
(03:05):
we're all rooting for you, pun absolutely intended, because that's
where our love comes from. That's how we show it.
So that's how you know we're really we're really rooting
for you. Um. But Okay, in the meantime, I guess
that brings us to our questions. Mulberries What are they? Well,
(03:33):
mulberries are a type of fruit that grows on trees
in the genus morris Um. There are a whole bunch
of species and varieties and they can generally all cross
pollinate and still produce viable seeds. So when I say mulberry,
any number of y'all out there might be thinking of
a slightly different thing. But but basically, um, a mulberry
is like a small, fragile BlackBerry that grows on tall, woody,
(03:56):
sturdy plants. Instead of a short, delicate viney or shrubby plant,
which confused me because of the rhyme. Oh sure, yeah,
I just gave a very vicious point. You did you
did I feel shake? It's not like I'm not attacking you, Lauren,
but you happen to be the source of my iron
(04:16):
at this moment. All around the mulberry bush. Who will
discuss they they can they can be more shreub like
in some circumstances, but okay, okay, allow me to allow
me to explain all alright, So, so mulberry trees can
vary in height from around a fifteen feet that's about
five ms up to about seventy feet that's about twenty
(04:38):
The roots are generally pretty shallow, though, so it's best
to keep them on the short side if you can.
Um they often grow these these real thick branches off
of a short trunk um and and then from those
thick branches, smaller kind of tangly branches will shoot off,
and they developed these tiny clusters of tiny flowers, which,
when pollinated grow we individual fruits that vultron together into
(05:02):
a single multilobed mass. On the flower clusters, single stem
um botanically speaking, Therefore, they are not berries. Um. They
are tiny droops UM. That is a tiny single seed
fruits that have blobbed together for for for safe keeping.
Kind of UM. It's a it's It's likely that this
(05:23):
evolved to make the joined cluster of fruits more attractive
to birds than just the single tiny fruit would have been. UM.
And this worked. By the way, I always had to
fight birds from my yard berries. It was it was
a losing battle. I have to say. It was about
to ask. I'm envisioning this. It's giving me a lot
(05:44):
of joy. I don't think it's probably it probably wasn't
as cool as you're thinking. It was like I feel
like like in Annie's mind escape right now, it's like
it's like Lauren like jumping and punching birds like that
wasn't that wasn't what happened. Honestly, I feel like I'm
someone who finds joy and coolness and very um. Not
(06:06):
too insult you, Lauren in this case, but minor things. Uh. So,
I'm just envisioning you were like birds. Now you get here,
I've warned you about this before being completely ignored and
then being like tweet yea, more berries, more berries, both
(06:33):
are excellent both. Yes, the mulberry is actually related to
figs and breadfruit and jackfruit, which are also masses of
many small fruits. Just figs are inside out instead of
being outside out. Yes. You can see our episodes on
those for more about those. Um. But yeah, a mulberry
(06:55):
will start out pale green and then ripe in um
if it is a female fruit to creamy white or
pink or red or purple or near black. Some varieties
are short and kind of roundish. Others grow long, like
the size and shape of a pinky finger. And yes,
the resulting fruit canberry. UM. My experience with them is
that they're yeah, just just so delicate and like in
(07:16):
like squitchable. Um. But they taste bright, sort of like
a slightly grapy, sweeter strawberry or raspberry um, like like
sweet end of a of a raspberry, hard end of
a strawberry. I don't know anyway, Um. Yeah, tend to
be pretty juicy and finger staining there everything staining. Um.
(07:37):
The sidewalks around town are like poke dotted with mulberry
stains every summer. Um. The trees will grow in temperate
climates all over the world. They like having a little
bit of a winter. Um. The berries can be eaten
out of hand or made into jams and jellies, baked
into sweet quick breads, used for pies, made into juice
or wine. UM. Some species and varieties, especially the wild ones,
can be pretty seedy um like as in the deeds
(08:00):
are prominent um. Not like they're hanging out at dive
bars waiting to shark you in a game of pool. UM.
So your your Your applications may vary from from tree
to tree. Um. The leaves are sometimes used as well,
um dried and then steeped in hot water to make tea,
and leaves and fruit can also be used for for
livestock feed in some places. Yes, yes, um, Okay, Well
(08:24):
what about the nutrition. Mulberries are pretty good for you
on their own, good punch of fiber along with their sugars,
smattering of vitamins and other micronutrients that you will help
fill you up, but to keep you going param with
some protein and some fat. Um. There are compounds um
both in the berries, especially the darker purple ear berries
(08:45):
UM and in some of the non fruit parts of
the mulberry plant that are under investigation for a number
of promising potential properties um anti diabetic, anti microbial, anti cancer,
pro cardio health. But as always, bodies are complicated. More
research is necessary before ingesting a medicinal amount of anything.
(09:09):
Consulted doctor who is not us. Eat a vegetable, Eat
a vegetable. Drink of water. Yeah always. Also, mulberry tree
bark contains some latex, so just watch out for that
if you have in latex allergy. Yes, yeah, um, we
do have some numbers for you, we do. Um. There
(09:30):
are some sixty eight species within the Morris genus and
thousands of cultivated varieties. Yes, there's however, not a lot
of trade in mulberries because they are so delicate they
don't really keep her ship well and thus have really
only started to be explored for commercial production of fruit
over the past like twenty years or so. UM. That said,
(09:52):
as of the US imported nearly three point four million
pounds of frozen bulberries um and China is the top
grower of mulberry trees by far. India has less than
half as much acreage as they do, and they come
in second. Um. But but these trees are not necessarily
(10:14):
being grown for the mulberry fruit that is true, and
that is quite an interesting part of the history. Yes,
and we are going to get into that history. But
first we are going to get into a quick break
for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank
(10:37):
you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay. So, depending on the
mulberrying question, there are a lot of origin places and
dates sure up in the air. White and black mulberries
are believed to have originated in Asia and or the
Middle East at least five thousand years ago, where it
(10:58):
was used medicinally for some brees. Red mulberries are thought
to be native to North America. UM mulberry seeds excavated
near Rome indicate Asian Romans were growing bite mulberry trees
because like you said, Lauren, Um, these berries don't keep
very long and they're kind of delicate. Um, so they
probably weren't imported. So the fact they found these there
(11:20):
suggest that yeah, exactly, Um. From seeds like this, historians
have also determined that mulberry trees were growing in London
by the fifth century CE, if not before. Also, aside
as a researcher, very interesting to me that England in
specific has a lot like data and research on mulberries yeah,
(11:45):
it's a it's a whole cultural phenomenon. I love it
me too. Also got me thinking about have an each
time this is I think this is part of why
I thought it was out of fantasy. It's because so
many in the nursery rhyme and right yeah, yeah exactly. Um.
Early Greek and Roman writers described mulberryes, including our pal
plenty um, so they were writing about them both medicinally
(12:08):
and culinarily. According to some archaeological evidence, the history of
silk production in China, where silk production is believed to
have been invented, goes back somewhere between three thousand and
seven thousand BC. And Okay, if you're curious, like like,
why are we talking about their right, um? But it
(12:28):
kind of has Lauren alluded to the mulberry tree, and
especially white mulberry tree, which was native to this area,
was huge in feeding silkworms to produce yeah yeah, um
mulberry leaves, and specifically the leaves of the whitemulberry um
are apparently just their favorite food exactly. So this was
(12:52):
kind of an episode where it got hard to tease
out the talking about the history of silk versus talking
about history mulberry. Um. But yes, China did dominate this
industry and kept their secret of how they did it
for thousands of years. But yes, this is a food show.
The history of silk is overwhelming. I tried to like
(13:13):
do the wrangle on it, and then I was like, yeah,
it's um. That's that's definitely a whole other suite of
episodes for a whole other suite of of shows that
are probably not ours. Um. But generally speaking, um, the
(13:34):
the white mulberry that is preferred for for silkworm feed
is not as popular as a berry producer or a
fruit producer, I should say. Um. Also, hey, fun times
with the nomenclature um. The particular species um uh that's
called white mulberry, and even its taxonomical name is is
m alba. It does not necessarily produce white colored fruit.
(13:59):
They can They can be red or purple or pink. Um. Also,
the red mulberry, which is the natively American mulberry, can
be purple. The black mulberry is usually black. But you know,
weird stuff happens. So again I'm annoyed, but I can
also relate because I'll take these kinds of shortcuts all
the time. Yep yep, yep yep. Um Mulberry trees are
(14:24):
planted at monasteries throughout England, often used for their shade. Unfortunately,
during the sixteenth century, when Henry the Eighth broke with
a Catholic Church so he could divorce Catherine of Aragon,
many of the monasteries and abbeys were ransacked, including the
air mulberry trees. In the history around those mulberry trees,
but still the trees were very favored amongst the aristocracy,
(14:47):
who sometimes used it used them as a way to
showcase how much better off they were when compared to
everyone else, including Queen Elizabeth the First. I got in
on that game. Cool. Yeah, and again, since these berries
didn't last long, it meant you had to grow them
for yourself to impress folks with like you hadn't have
(15:09):
your own yeah yeah, oh no, no no, no, I
got my own tree. Yeah. Mulberry leaves were also used
in making silk in Europe, beginning at least in the
thirteenth century in Italy and by the fifteenth century in France,
perhaps as early it's the fifth century in Spain. With
the arrival of the Arab civilization there, um. These industries
(15:29):
used black and white mulberry leaves to feed silk worms.
In fact, from sixteen o seven to sixteen o eight,
King James the first requested that nobility plant ten thousand
or when hundred thousands I saw in subsources and I
almost made that mistake. So I was like, did everyone
just make the same mistake I almost did? Or I
(15:50):
don't know. It's it's I mean, either way a lot.
There's a big difference there, but it's still a lot.
I would say. Either way, yes, plant this huge number
of mulberry so England could compete in Europe's silk industry. However,
the industry didn't really take off in that country, partially
because most people planted black mulberry trees, which don't produces
(16:11):
fine of silk when it comes to silkworm feed as
white mulberry trees. So King James and or his advisers
thought the climate might be the issue there, so he
had them planted in the colony of Virginia, and the
tree did flourish there, but was not a commercially successful
venture for England. It did make money, um, but didn't
(16:32):
really didn't really take off. Yeah, yeah, apparently there was
a law pasted in sixteen sixty two UM by the
by the British Empire saying that plantation owners in UM
North America had to have at least ten mulberry trees
per a hundred acres of land, or they could be
(16:53):
fined ten pounds of tobacco. Oh However, plantations producing at
least a thousand pounds of silk were eligible to receive
a bonus five thousand pounds of tobacco, so incentive stlers
of Catan. Before the Revolutionary War Georgia, the state perhaps
(17:21):
obviously processed silk for the British Empire, and even earlier
in the mid fifteen hundreds, Spanish conquistador Hernando de Soto
wrote about the southeastern North American Muskogee people eating dried mulberries. Um.
They also baked, baked them in corn bread, and use
them for dies. I've read that the dyes very potent
and powerful and staining. Um. Other Native American people's dried
(17:45):
them for winter, to mix them with water to make
jams or sauces, among other things. Use them for a
bunch of stuff. Yeah, yeah, I read that. Down south
and what's now Florida, Seminole people used the branches of
making bows uh um and six five any Protestants fleeing
religious persecution arrived in England um and many of whom
were silk weavers, along with imported silk so not you know,
(18:10):
English English soap. But they were able to get the
industry going in England by the seventeen hundreds without mulberry leaves. Again,
it was so hard to separate out the history of
silk from the history of mulberries. Very very tight end. Yes,
General Oglethorpe transported five hundred white mulberry trees to Georgia
(18:31):
with the idea of using them to make silk, and
seventeen thirty three. That same year, naturalist William Bartram wrote
that all landowners in North American colonies should grow white
mulberry trees for the silk industry. Thomas Jefferson has some
planted allegedly every twenty ft. I think it was called
mulberry row um. The website of Monicella was very helpful
(18:52):
with all of this, by the way, so cool. After
becoming president of Yale College in seventeen seventy eight, Ezra
Styles pressed the staff to plant an acre of mulberry
trees for each of their children, because silk had quote
ever claimed the attention of the best and most cultivated minds. Yes,
(19:14):
he didn't stop there either, handing out mulberry seeds and
silkworm eggs all over New England. He often wrote about silk.
He Morris silk grow from his own creation, his own
silk that he had made to Yale's commencement address in
seventeen eighty nine. And he wasn't the only proponent of silk.
It was also popular as a lighter load when it
(19:36):
came to work for women, children, and those who were ill.
Some abolitionists suggested it as a way to avoid cotton
produced by enslaved peoples. The belief was that putting these
groups to work would increase productivity but also keep them
from getting into trouble due to boredom a k a
(19:57):
increased productivity equal to increase morale. These ideas really got intertwined,
and so this mulberry tree was almost seen as a
moral thing. Yeah. Amy Shambliss wrote about this in the
nineteen sixties. It could be carried on in orphanages, poorhouses,
and institutions of correction, and thus cut public expenses and
(20:21):
lower taxes. It supposedly gave a spiritual uplift to all
engage in it by reminding them of how much beauty
comes into the world through a plane looking worm. She
went on to clarify that most states north of Virginia
subsidized silk raising. The Secretary of the Treasury released a
manual about the industry in and in eighteen thirty six.
(20:44):
John Quincy Adams suggested silk growth as a way to
decrease reliance on imports because of how quickly mulberry cuttings
could multiply per year. He said that the mulberry tree
could put the farmer on the same playing field as
the capitalist. Uh huh. So silk was all the rage
in the eighteen thirties. In fact, it was reported to
(21:07):
the U. S Department of Agriculture that quote, suddenly, and
by a simultaneous and spontaneous impulse, the people of the
United States have directed their attention to this source of
national riches. Everywhere, from north to south, mulberry trees have
been planted and silk worms raised. And it was like
such a big deal. There were so many articles written
(21:27):
about how was the silk bubble um. But people even
sold fraudulent silkworm eggs. And all of this meant that
people rushed to get into this mulberry silk business. Some
early entrepreneurs made five to one thousand percent profits. The
mulberry trees themselves became more attractive than the silk trees
(21:50):
purchased increased exponentially in value by the eighteen thirties, rising
one hundred times from five dollars per one hundred trees. Oh,
I know, but this all ended in eighty nine when
a credit contraction convinced small buyers to sell. The Next
year there was a freeze damaged a lot of trees,
(22:13):
a lot of berries, and a few years later there
was a blight did the same thing that really was
the nail in the coffin of this country's mulberry industry.
There were some attempts to reverse this. California government officials
issued a bounty for silkworm cocoons and mulberry trees. And yes,
(22:35):
I did think of the Mandalorian spinoff of this, and
perhaps I'll share it one day. However, the finances of
all of that became too much by eighteen sixty seven,
and the bounties were revoked, but several cocooneries popped up
across the state and and around the country. The trees
didn't make a comeback, and in some places, certainly um
(22:58):
like to the point that day the white mulberry, which
was the one that was being imported for silk related purposes. Um,
is considered invasive today, right. Yeah. A lot of articles
were written about how basive is Yeah, okay, so really
really briefly because I had to know. The rhyme pop
(23:20):
goes the Weasel originated in the eighteen fifties in England,
and this version did not include the line I am
familiar with all around the mulberry bush. Um, is that
how you've heard it? That's how I've heard it too. Yeah, yeah,
all around the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel
exactly exactly. Apparently that line was one of the US variations. Also,
(23:46):
apparently the song is about pawning off your suit at
the end of the night to pay for drinks, or
maybe not at all. That's what the popular kind of
understanding of it is. But other kind of history and
this were like, no, it probably didn't mean that. Um.
It might have just been catchy and a fun song
like a fun drinking song, histories, mysteries, and one of
(24:10):
the possible reasons given for this U S variation of
all around the mulberry bush is that in the nineteenth
century mulberry trees did become associated with economic prosperity and
moral productiveness in the United States. So that's interesting. I'd
love to hear from listeners because there there's a lot
(24:30):
of versions of this, apparently, all very fascinating. Okay, uh cool, yes. Um.
In nineteen eighteen, mulberries were reported growing in Bermuda. They
were probably going before then, but that's when our written
record says that they were reported. Um. For D Day,
(24:51):
the US and UK constructed two artificial harbors to make
sure there would be a steady supply of soldiers and
resources for this World War two well known of it. Um.
These harbors were called Mulberry A and Mulberry b. Um.
I'm sure there's a reason for it. Yeah. The websites
(25:11):
did not give me it readily, but I'm sure yeah. Um.
The British leather goods brand Mulberry started up in in Somerset. Um.
The name and the tree logo I'm still used today.
Um was inspired by yeah, trees in the area that
(25:33):
the founder had walked by as a child going to school.
Huh okay. Research published in two thousand nine found um okay.
So they were looking into why silkworms like mulberry leaves
so much, and they found there's a compound in there
that apparently just smells real attractive two silkworms, and that
(25:56):
is why they prefer the mulberry to other plants. And
it's this compound that that smells like jasmine. Oh yeah,
of course. I don't know why I was moved by that.
It was It's just such a beautiful scent, and I'm like, oh,
we we have the same common silk worms. We are
(26:17):
the same. The Baltimore Orchard Project launched Mulberry Madness in
to raise awareness around mulberries UM, trying to change their
reputation from invasive past to a desired crop. At the
same time, they pointed out that Middle Eastern immigrants were
(26:40):
introducing their cuisine to the United States, especially the Washington,
d c. Area. I believe um, and this cuisine often
used mulberries, and that that was helping popularize this ingredients
cool um yeah and uh and right now, um. The
University of Minnesota has a project called the Mysterious Mulberry
(27:01):
to log and identify or I guess identify and then
log um red versus white mulberry trees, um and hybrids
thereof citizen science. I love it too. Yeah you can.
You can google Mysterious Mulberry if you want to read
more about it or get in on the action. Yeah,
please do. Let's get this savor. I know you listeners
(27:25):
can help out with this effort. Mysterious Mulberry also really
easily lends itself to our food cartoon comic series. Oh yeah, yeah,
there there has to be a cape involved. Oh yeah,
I'm faturing, like what's his name, like mighty Duck, Dark Duck,
dark wing Duck. Yeah, that's definitely what I was picturing. Yes,
(27:46):
we're on the same yes, yes, but in the meantime,
please illustrate it listeners, should you desire. But also, um,
that's what we have to say about them bears for now.
But we do have some listener mail for you. We do.
But first we've got one more quick break for a
word from our sponsor. And we're back. Thank you, sponsored, Yes,
(28:17):
thank you, and we're back with this. It's hard to
do all around it is I and apologies I like
immediately or like like after, like when I figured out
what you were doing, I just started laughing instead of
(28:40):
doing it along with you. Sometimes not my art inspires laughter.
It's it's a serious laughter, but a laughter. And on
the left, Uh, that was that was a good one.
That was a good one. You're welcome o um delia
(29:02):
or perhaps dahia. I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly, wrote
I just got done listening to your aquafaba episode and
loved it. I am vegan and have used it in
various quick breads too much success. I also enjoy frying
them up with tumeric and Himilian black salt to get
an egg like color and sulfuric taste, respectively. Like you,
I was surprised to learn how recent this vegan staple is.
(29:24):
I perhaps foolishly thought using it was a much older
thing than food blogs had recently quote discovered. I recently
listened to many episodes of your show in a long
car ride with my partner, and we have too fairly
pressing episode request. But of course we understand y'all are
busy and have a list of colorious pressing here refers
(29:46):
to our excitement. Keep doing what you're doing. Thank you,
Your show is wonderful. I a microbiology PhD student and
longtime sour dough bread baker, and I love list into
your show while I bake, and of course, the microbiologist
in me gets super excited anytime a fermentation episode comes up.
(30:09):
During my most recent bake, I got to thinking how
cool a rye bread episode would be. Many people myself included,
feed their sour dough starter rye flower specifically as it
is less processed and microbial ly rich. Rise also the
grain that many early colonizers of eastern North America brought over,
and not to mention the integral aspect of many amazing sandwiches,
(30:31):
could be a really cool episode. Second request is in Jarra.
We recently enjoyed a transcendentally delicious meal from a local
Ethiopian restaurant here in Ithaca, and I realized I know
very little about this lovely bread. Oh two, I mean
a all the bread's. Yes, we should do episodes on
(30:52):
be those are two uh yeah yeah, very specific, super different,
incredibly delicious types of bread. Yes, I'm excited about learning
more about both of those. I remember very vividly the
first time I have in Jarra. I had in Jara.
It was also transcendental. It was amazing. Absolutely, Yeah, I
(31:15):
had some I had some really really really good Ethiopian
um food when I was out in New Orleans a
couple of months ago, and in those Halicon days when uh,
when we didn't know about the Delta variant yet. Um.
But yeah, oh okay, yeah, this this, this listener mail
is making me hungry. Yees ye, Perhaps we should move on.
(31:41):
Michelle wrote, I was so excited about the corn dog episode,
and when you mentioned Cozy Dog, I was grinning ear
to ear. You see, Cozy Dog is about three hours
south of where I live, and it's a tradition for
my husband and I to stop there for corn dogs
on our road trips. It's the first official stop before
going on towards wherever we're bound. If you're are in Springfield, Illinois,
don't miss Cozy Dog. I've attached some photos I've taken
(32:04):
while visiting there. You order corn dogs in quantities of
like four or six, and fries come into basket. Go
with your appetites. I hear you being reluctant to eat
corn dogs. There are good ones, okay ones, and mal ones.
Good ones are hand dipped and fried at the restaurant.
Ones are frozen and in the grocery store freezer. Don't
eat those. Okay ones are generally those fried by restaurants
(32:27):
but not dipped there. And now there are exceptions to these.
For instance, if you're looking for a place to safely
try a corn dog, go to Sonic and get some
corn dog bites. Their nugget sized corn dogs, so you
eat with your hand, no stick. They're even good without
any sauce. That's how I like them, and they're so yummy.
My favorite corn dog ever was a foot long corn
dog at a local county fair. I'm sure I looked
(32:49):
silly carrying it around and eating it, but it was
so worth it. Fair food is the best. And then
a follow up. Okay, so i'm e because my poor
memory caused me to give you an incorrect tip. In
my previous email, I mentioned corn dog bites It's Sonic,
but misremembered that it was actually an an W drive
in restaurant where we had them recently. I'm sure if
(33:10):
Sonic has them that they're good too, but I couldn't
let it go until I corrected myself. I'm not sure
if you'll have any an W restaurants down there. They're
pretty rare these days, but a favorite of mine. Uh yeah,
I believe that Sonic does indeed have corn dog bites. Um,
and I don't think we have any anws around here there.
(33:30):
They're a restaurant. I have a fast food joint anyway
that I have a lot of nostalgia for from road
trips when I was living in Ohio and Pennsylvania as
a tiny kid. Um. But lots of lots of root
beer floats were had on those trips. But but no
corn dog bites, no, no, no, no corn dog bites
(33:51):
that I remember at the time. I honestly don't remember
eating food other than yeah, um goodness, okay, okay, okay.
I I will real hard against anything and everything at
any given moment um. But but that being said, I'm
always willing to try everything, Like, even if it's something
(34:14):
that I know I don't like, I'll be like, yeah, sure,
why not? Yeah same, And this could be the time
Dr Pepper related then get it away from Yeah. Yeah,
well it's probably my big exception. We all have our limits. Yeah,
you've got to have one minute at least. And I
will say I really appreciate this corn dog expertise. I
appreciate the breaking down also the foot long fair corn dog.
(34:41):
I mean, that's that's the beauty of the fair. That's
the beauty of these foods that probably don't taste good
in any other environment, but in that environment, Oh sure, yeah, yeah, yeah,
because you're you've been you've been walking around, You're you're
you're hungry and thirsty, and there's all the smells and
sounds and lights and uh yeah, you know you've got
(35:02):
you've got funnel cake and one nostril and and and
yeend and all that just excess of your like, oh man, yes,
I'm gonna eat so much. Yes, I find that a
very powerful memory. Actually, that the smell, and it's kind
of that smell that I've been saying that I think
that's what I don't like is the old oil. But
I do have an acellagic for that cell of like
(35:26):
this was associated with so many fun events from being
at like fair grounds or whatever and getting these kind
of ridiculous dudes that were wonderful. Yeah, excitement, excitement makes
everything taste better, for sure, that is true. Um and
We're always excited to hear from you listeners. Thanks to
(35:47):
both of these listeners for writing in. If you would
like to write to us, you can our emails Hello
at savor pod dot com. We are also on social media.
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
savor pod. We do hope to hear for meal. Savor
is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for
my Heart Radio, you can visit the i Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
(36:09):
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren voc Obam, and today
we have an episode for you about mulberries. Yes, the
fruit that I thought was a miss something out of fantasy. Nope, Nope,
it's real. That's what I've gone to find out. And
many listeners wrote in about it after I said that
(00:29):
I thought it was a myth um, but also people
wrote in about it before. Uh, seems to have captured
many people's imagination and attention. Yeah, it's a very nostalgic
thing for for some people because in climates where it grows,
it is very prolific and you can just kind of
like shake a tree and get a whole bunch of
(00:50):
like a little handful of berries as you're walking somewhere.
And ah, yeah, um, for sure, for sure, I am
doing this. Reading made me miss my previous home here
in Atlanta, which had a side yard with um with
a whole bunch of more or less wild mulberry trees
(01:11):
in it. And so every every summer there would just
be yard berries. There would just be so many yard berries,
and I would just like, especially during the shutdown last summer,
I didn't really feel comfortable going anywhere, so I would
just be like be like doing laps around the yard
and like picking berries and um, yeah, and did you
(01:35):
do with them? Mostly I froze them because it was
like cups and cups and cups and cups of berries. Um.
But I also just poured wine over a bunch of
them and had like mulberry sangria. I'm not sure if
it counts if it's like two ingredients, but I think it.
I think it counts. Also this made me rem number
(02:00):
that UM. While I was I got to travel to
England about ten years ago. UM, and I was staying
mostly in reading and the fourteenth century abbey that happens
to be smack in the middle of what is otherwise
more or less a a very nice strip mall um
kind of town. Um. There's this fourteenth century abbey and
(02:23):
it had this beautiful century plus old mulberry tree that
was really creepy. It looked like it was about to
like start like walking across the lawn at you, like
a like a like a Tim Burton creature, um unicorn.
And yeah, yeah, and and I and I and so
I looked this tree up and it turns out it
(02:43):
collapsed recently, and so they've got a team of arborists
out there trying to help it. But I had to
just cut myself off from going down a really deep
dive about this one tree and what's been being done
about it. So anyway, Forberry Park, mulberry tree, I hope
you're doing okay, are thoughts are out? Yeah, we're all
(03:05):
we're all rooting for you, pun absolutely intended, because that's
where our love comes from. That's how we show it.
So that's how you know we're really we're really rooting
for you. Um. But Okay, in the meantime, I guess
that brings us to our questions. Mulberries What are they? Well,
(03:33):
mulberries are a type of fruit that grows on trees
in the genus morris Um. There are a whole bunch
of species and varieties and they can generally all cross
pollinate and still produce viable seeds. So when I say mulberry,
any number of y'all out there might be thinking of
a slightly different thing. But but basically, um, a mulberry
is like a small, fragile BlackBerry that grows on tall, woody,
(03:56):
sturdy plants. Instead of a short, delicate viney or shrubby plant,
which confused me because of the rhyme. Oh sure, yeah,
I just gave a very vicious point. You did you
did I feel shake? It's not like I'm not attacking you, Lauren,
but you happen to be the source of my iron
(04:16):
at this moment. All around the mulberry bush. Who will
discuss they they can they can be more shreub like
in some circumstances, but okay, okay, allow me to allow
me to explain all alright, So, so mulberry trees can
vary in height from around a fifteen feet that's about
five ms up to about seventy feet that's about twenty
(04:38):
The roots are generally pretty shallow, though, so it's best
to keep them on the short side if you can.
Um they often grow these these real thick branches off
of a short trunk um and and then from those
thick branches, smaller kind of tangly branches will shoot off,
and they developed these tiny clusters of tiny flowers, which,
when pollinated grow we individual fruits that vultron together into
(05:02):
a single multilobed mass. On the flower clusters, single stem
um botanically speaking, Therefore, they are not berries. Um. They
are tiny droops UM. That is a tiny single seed
fruits that have blobbed together for for for safe keeping.
Kind of UM. It's a it's It's likely that this
(05:23):
evolved to make the joined cluster of fruits more attractive
to birds than just the single tiny fruit would have been. UM.
And this worked. By the way, I always had to
fight birds from my yard berries. It was it was
a losing battle. I have to say. It was about
to ask. I'm envisioning this. It's giving me a lot
(05:44):
of joy. I don't think it's probably it probably wasn't
as cool as you're thinking. It was like I feel
like like in Annie's mind escape right now, it's like
it's like Lauren like jumping and punching birds like that
wasn't that wasn't what happened. Honestly, I feel like I'm
someone who finds joy and coolness and very um. Not
(06:06):
too insult you, Lauren in this case, but minor things. Uh. So,
I'm just envisioning you were like birds. Now you get here,
I've warned you about this before being completely ignored and
then being like tweet yea, more berries, more berries, both
(06:33):
are excellent both. Yes, the mulberry is actually related to
figs and breadfruit and jackfruit, which are also masses of
many small fruits. Just figs are inside out instead of
being outside out. Yes. You can see our episodes on
those for more about those. Um. But yeah, a mulberry
(06:55):
will start out pale green and then ripe in um
if it is a female fruit to creamy white or
pink or red or purple or near black. Some varieties
are short and kind of roundish. Others grow long, like
the size and shape of a pinky finger. And yes,
the resulting fruit canberry. UM. My experience with them is
that they're yeah, just just so delicate and like in
(07:16):
like squitchable. Um. But they taste bright, sort of like
a slightly grapy, sweeter strawberry or raspberry um, like like
sweet end of a of a raspberry, hard end of
a strawberry. I don't know anyway, Um. Yeah, tend to
be pretty juicy and finger staining there everything staining. Um.
(07:37):
The sidewalks around town are like poke dotted with mulberry
stains every summer. Um. The trees will grow in temperate
climates all over the world. They like having a little
bit of a winter. Um. The berries can be eaten
out of hand or made into jams and jellies, baked
into sweet quick breads, used for pies, made into juice
or wine. UM. Some species and varieties, especially the wild ones,
can be pretty seedy um like as in the deeds
(08:00):
are prominent um. Not like they're hanging out at dive
bars waiting to shark you in a game of pool. UM.
So your your Your applications may vary from from tree
to tree. Um. The leaves are sometimes used as well,
um dried and then steeped in hot water to make tea,
and leaves and fruit can also be used for for
livestock feed in some places. Yes, yes, um, Okay, Well
(08:24):
what about the nutrition. Mulberries are pretty good for you
on their own, good punch of fiber along with their sugars,
smattering of vitamins and other micronutrients that you will help
fill you up, but to keep you going param with
some protein and some fat. Um. There are compounds um
both in the berries, especially the darker purple ear berries
(08:45):
UM and in some of the non fruit parts of
the mulberry plant that are under investigation for a number
of promising potential properties um anti diabetic, anti microbial, anti cancer,
pro cardio health. But as always, bodies are complicated. More
research is necessary before ingesting a medicinal amount of anything.
(09:09):
Consulted doctor who is not us. Eat a vegetable, Eat
a vegetable. Drink of water. Yeah always. Also, mulberry tree
bark contains some latex, so just watch out for that
if you have in latex allergy. Yes, yeah, um, we
do have some numbers for you, we do. Um. There
(09:30):
are some sixty eight species within the Morris genus and
thousands of cultivated varieties. Yes, there's however, not a lot
of trade in mulberries because they are so delicate they
don't really keep her ship well and thus have really
only started to be explored for commercial production of fruit
over the past like twenty years or so. UM. That said,
(09:52):
as of the US imported nearly three point four million
pounds of frozen bulberries um and China is the top
grower of mulberry trees by far. India has less than
half as much acreage as they do, and they come
in second. Um. But but these trees are not necessarily
(10:14):
being grown for the mulberry fruit that is true, and
that is quite an interesting part of the history. Yes,
and we are going to get into that history. But
first we are going to get into a quick break
for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank
(10:37):
you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay. So, depending on the
mulberrying question, there are a lot of origin places and
dates sure up in the air. White and black mulberries
are believed to have originated in Asia and or the
Middle East at least five thousand years ago, where it
(10:58):
was used medicinally for some brees. Red mulberries are thought
to be native to North America. UM mulberry seeds excavated
near Rome indicate Asian Romans were growing bite mulberry trees
because like you said, Lauren, Um, these berries don't keep
very long and they're kind of delicate. Um, so they
probably weren't imported. So the fact they found these there
(11:20):
suggest that yeah, exactly, Um. From seeds like this, historians
have also determined that mulberry trees were growing in London
by the fifth century CE, if not before. Also, aside
as a researcher, very interesting to me that England in
specific has a lot like data and research on mulberries yeah,
(11:45):
it's a it's a whole cultural phenomenon. I love it
me too. Also got me thinking about have an each
time this is I think this is part of why
I thought it was out of fantasy. It's because so
many in the nursery rhyme and right yeah, yeah exactly. Um.
Early Greek and Roman writers described mulberryes, including our pal
plenty um, so they were writing about them both medicinally
(12:08):
and culinarily. According to some archaeological evidence, the history of
silk production in China, where silk production is believed to
have been invented, goes back somewhere between three thousand and
seven thousand BC. And Okay, if you're curious, like like,
why are we talking about their right, um? But it
(12:28):
kind of has Lauren alluded to the mulberry tree, and
especially white mulberry tree, which was native to this area,
was huge in feeding silkworms to produce yeah yeah, um
mulberry leaves, and specifically the leaves of the whitemulberry um
are apparently just their favorite food exactly. So this was
(12:52):
kind of an episode where it got hard to tease
out the talking about the history of silk versus talking
about history mulberry. Um. But yes, China did dominate this
industry and kept their secret of how they did it
for thousands of years. But yes, this is a food show.
The history of silk is overwhelming. I tried to like
(13:13):
do the wrangle on it, and then I was like, yeah,
it's um. That's that's definitely a whole other suite of
episodes for a whole other suite of of shows that
are probably not ours. Um. But generally speaking, um, the
(13:34):
the white mulberry that is preferred for for silkworm feed
is not as popular as a berry producer or a
fruit producer, I should say. Um. Also, hey, fun times
with the nomenclature um. The particular species um uh that's
called white mulberry, and even its taxonomical name is is
m alba. It does not necessarily produce white colored fruit.
(13:59):
They can They can be red or purple or pink. Um. Also,
the red mulberry, which is the natively American mulberry, can
be purple. The black mulberry is usually black. But you know,
weird stuff happens. So again I'm annoyed, but I can
also relate because I'll take these kinds of shortcuts all
the time. Yep yep, yep yep. Um Mulberry trees are
(14:24):
planted at monasteries throughout England, often used for their shade. Unfortunately,
during the sixteenth century, when Henry the Eighth broke with
a Catholic Church so he could divorce Catherine of Aragon,
many of the monasteries and abbeys were ransacked, including the
air mulberry trees. In the history around those mulberry trees,
but still the trees were very favored amongst the aristocracy,
(14:47):
who sometimes used it used them as a way to
showcase how much better off they were when compared to
everyone else, including Queen Elizabeth the First. I got in
on that game. Cool. Yeah, and again, since these berries
didn't last long, it meant you had to grow them
for yourself to impress folks with like you hadn't have
(15:09):
your own yeah yeah, oh no, no no, no, I
got my own tree. Yeah. Mulberry leaves were also used
in making silk in Europe, beginning at least in the
thirteenth century in Italy and by the fifteenth century in France,
perhaps as early it's the fifth century in Spain. With
the arrival of the Arab civilization there, um. These industries
(15:29):
used black and white mulberry leaves to feed silk worms.
In fact, from sixteen o seven to sixteen o eight,
King James the first requested that nobility plant ten thousand
or when hundred thousands I saw in subsources and I
almost made that mistake. So I was like, did everyone
just make the same mistake I almost did? Or I
(15:50):
don't know. It's it's I mean, either way a lot.
There's a big difference there, but it's still a lot.
I would say. Either way, yes, plant this huge number
of mulberry so England could compete in Europe's silk industry. However,
the industry didn't really take off in that country, partially
because most people planted black mulberry trees, which don't produces
(16:11):
fine of silk when it comes to silkworm feed as
white mulberry trees. So King James and or his advisers
thought the climate might be the issue there, so he
had them planted in the colony of Virginia, and the
tree did flourish there, but was not a commercially successful
venture for England. It did make money, um, but didn't
(16:32):
really didn't really take off. Yeah, yeah, apparently there was
a law pasted in sixteen sixty two UM by the
by the British Empire saying that plantation owners in UM
North America had to have at least ten mulberry trees
per a hundred acres of land, or they could be
(16:53):
fined ten pounds of tobacco. Oh However, plantations producing at
least a thousand pounds of silk were eligible to receive
a bonus five thousand pounds of tobacco, so incentive stlers
of Catan. Before the Revolutionary War Georgia, the state perhaps
(17:21):
obviously processed silk for the British Empire, and even earlier
in the mid fifteen hundreds, Spanish conquistador Hernando de Soto
wrote about the southeastern North American Muskogee people eating dried mulberries. Um.
They also baked, baked them in corn bread, and use
them for dies. I've read that the dyes very potent
and powerful and staining. Um. Other Native American people's dried
(17:45):
them for winter, to mix them with water to make
jams or sauces, among other things. Use them for a
bunch of stuff. Yeah, yeah, I read that. Down south
and what's now Florida, Seminole people used the branches of
making bows uh um and six five any Protestants fleeing
religious persecution arrived in England um and many of whom
were silk weavers, along with imported silk so not you know,
(18:10):
English English soap. But they were able to get the
industry going in England by the seventeen hundreds without mulberry leaves. Again,
it was so hard to separate out the history of
silk from the history of mulberries. Very very tight end. Yes,
General Oglethorpe transported five hundred white mulberry trees to Georgia
(18:31):
with the idea of using them to make silk, and
seventeen thirty three. That same year, naturalist William Bartram wrote
that all landowners in North American colonies should grow white
mulberry trees for the silk industry. Thomas Jefferson has some
planted allegedly every twenty ft. I think it was called
mulberry row um. The website of Monicella was very helpful
(18:52):
with all of this, by the way, so cool. After
becoming president of Yale College in seventeen seventy eight, Ezra
Styles pressed the staff to plant an acre of mulberry
trees for each of their children, because silk had quote
ever claimed the attention of the best and most cultivated minds. Yes,
(19:14):
he didn't stop there either, handing out mulberry seeds and
silkworm eggs all over New England. He often wrote about silk.
He Morris silk grow from his own creation, his own
silk that he had made to Yale's commencement address in
seventeen eighty nine. And he wasn't the only proponent of silk.
It was also popular as a lighter load when it
(19:36):
came to work for women, children, and those who were ill.
Some abolitionists suggested it as a way to avoid cotton
produced by enslaved peoples. The belief was that putting these
groups to work would increase productivity but also keep them
from getting into trouble due to boredom a k a
(19:57):
increased productivity equal to increase morale. These ideas really got intertwined,
and so this mulberry tree was almost seen as a
moral thing. Yeah. Amy Shambliss wrote about this in the
nineteen sixties. It could be carried on in orphanages, poorhouses,
and institutions of correction, and thus cut public expenses and
(20:21):
lower taxes. It supposedly gave a spiritual uplift to all
engage in it by reminding them of how much beauty
comes into the world through a plane looking worm. She
went on to clarify that most states north of Virginia
subsidized silk raising. The Secretary of the Treasury released a
manual about the industry in and in eighteen thirty six.
(20:44):
John Quincy Adams suggested silk growth as a way to
decrease reliance on imports because of how quickly mulberry cuttings
could multiply per year. He said that the mulberry tree
could put the farmer on the same playing field as
the capitalist. Uh huh. So silk was all the rage
in the eighteen thirties. In fact, it was reported to
(21:07):
the U. S Department of Agriculture that quote, suddenly, and
by a simultaneous and spontaneous impulse, the people of the
United States have directed their attention to this source of
national riches. Everywhere, from north to south, mulberry trees have
been planted and silk worms raised. And it was like
such a big deal. There were so many articles written
(21:27):
about how was the silk bubble um. But people even
sold fraudulent silkworm eggs. And all of this meant that
people rushed to get into this mulberry silk business. Some
early entrepreneurs made five to one thousand percent profits. The
mulberry trees themselves became more attractive than the silk trees
(21:50):
purchased increased exponentially in value by the eighteen thirties, rising
one hundred times from five dollars per one hundred trees. Oh,
I know, but this all ended in eighty nine when
a credit contraction convinced small buyers to sell. The Next
year there was a freeze damaged a lot of trees,
(22:13):
a lot of berries, and a few years later there
was a blight did the same thing that really was
the nail in the coffin of this country's mulberry industry.
There were some attempts to reverse this. California government officials
issued a bounty for silkworm cocoons and mulberry trees. And yes,
(22:35):
I did think of the Mandalorian spinoff of this, and
perhaps I'll share it one day. However, the finances of
all of that became too much by eighteen sixty seven,
and the bounties were revoked, but several cocooneries popped up
across the state and and around the country. The trees
didn't make a comeback, and in some places, certainly um
(22:58):
like to the point that day the white mulberry, which
was the one that was being imported for silk related purposes. Um,
is considered invasive today, right. Yeah. A lot of articles
were written about how basive is Yeah, okay, so really
really briefly because I had to know. The rhyme pop
(23:20):
goes the Weasel originated in the eighteen fifties in England,
and this version did not include the line I am
familiar with all around the mulberry bush. Um, is that
how you've heard it? That's how I've heard it too. Yeah, yeah,
all around the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel
exactly exactly. Apparently that line was one of the US variations. Also,
(23:46):
apparently the song is about pawning off your suit at
the end of the night to pay for drinks, or
maybe not at all. That's what the popular kind of
understanding of it is. But other kind of history and
this were like, no, it probably didn't mean that. Um.
It might have just been catchy and a fun song
like a fun drinking song, histories, mysteries, and one of
(24:10):
the possible reasons given for this U S variation of
all around the mulberry bush is that in the nineteenth
century mulberry trees did become associated with economic prosperity and
moral productiveness in the United States. So that's interesting. I'd
love to hear from listeners because there there's a lot
(24:30):
of versions of this, apparently, all very fascinating. Okay, uh cool, yes. Um.
In nineteen eighteen, mulberries were reported growing in Bermuda. They
were probably going before then, but that's when our written
record says that they were reported. Um. For D Day,
(24:51):
the US and UK constructed two artificial harbors to make
sure there would be a steady supply of soldiers and
resources for this World War two well known of it. Um.
These harbors were called Mulberry A and Mulberry b. Um.
I'm sure there's a reason for it. Yeah. The websites
(25:11):
did not give me it readily, but I'm sure yeah. Um.
The British leather goods brand Mulberry started up in in Somerset. Um.
The name and the tree logo I'm still used today.
Um was inspired by yeah, trees in the area that
(25:33):
the founder had walked by as a child going to school.
Huh okay. Research published in two thousand nine found um okay.
So they were looking into why silkworms like mulberry leaves
so much, and they found there's a compound in there
that apparently just smells real attractive two silkworms, and that
(25:56):
is why they prefer the mulberry to other plants. And
it's this compound that that smells like jasmine. Oh yeah,
of course. I don't know why I was moved by that.
It was It's just such a beautiful scent, and I'm like, oh,
we we have the same common silk worms. We are
(26:17):
the same. The Baltimore Orchard Project launched Mulberry Madness in
to raise awareness around mulberries UM, trying to change their
reputation from invasive past to a desired crop. At the
same time, they pointed out that Middle Eastern immigrants were
(26:40):
introducing their cuisine to the United States, especially the Washington,
d c. Area. I believe um, and this cuisine often
used mulberries, and that that was helping popularize this ingredients
cool um yeah and uh and right now, um. The
University of Minnesota has a project called the Mysterious Mulberry
(27:01):
to log and identify or I guess identify and then
log um red versus white mulberry trees, um and hybrids
thereof citizen science. I love it too. Yeah you can.
You can google Mysterious Mulberry if you want to read
more about it or get in on the action. Yeah,
please do. Let's get this savor. I know you listeners
(27:25):
can help out with this effort. Mysterious Mulberry also really
easily lends itself to our food cartoon comic series. Oh yeah, yeah,
there there has to be a cape involved. Oh yeah,
I'm faturing, like what's his name, like mighty Duck, Dark Duck,
dark wing Duck. Yeah, that's definitely what I was picturing. Yes,
(27:46):
we're on the same yes, yes, but in the meantime,
please illustrate it listeners, should you desire. But also, um,
that's what we have to say about them bears for now.
But we do have some listener mail for you. We do.
But first we've got one more quick break for a
word from our sponsor. And we're back. Thank you, sponsored, Yes,
(28:17):
thank you, and we're back with this. It's hard to
do all around it is I and apologies I like
immediately or like like after, like when I figured out
what you were doing, I just started laughing instead of
(28:40):
doing it along with you. Sometimes not my art inspires laughter.
It's it's a serious laughter, but a laughter. And on
the left, Uh, that was that was a good one.
That was a good one. You're welcome o um delia
(29:02):
or perhaps dahia. I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly, wrote
I just got done listening to your aquafaba episode and
loved it. I am vegan and have used it in
various quick breads too much success. I also enjoy frying
them up with tumeric and Himilian black salt to get
an egg like color and sulfuric taste, respectively. Like you,
I was surprised to learn how recent this vegan staple is.
(29:24):
I perhaps foolishly thought using it was a much older
thing than food blogs had recently quote discovered. I recently
listened to many episodes of your show in a long
car ride with my partner, and we have too fairly
pressing episode request. But of course we understand y'all are
busy and have a list of colorious pressing here refers
(29:46):
to our excitement. Keep doing what you're doing. Thank you,
Your show is wonderful. I a microbiology PhD student and
longtime sour dough bread baker, and I love list into
your show while I bake, and of course, the microbiologist
in me gets super excited anytime a fermentation episode comes up.
(30:09):
During my most recent bake, I got to thinking how
cool a rye bread episode would be. Many people myself included,
feed their sour dough starter rye flower specifically as it
is less processed and microbial ly rich. Rise also the
grain that many early colonizers of eastern North America brought over,
and not to mention the integral aspect of many amazing sandwiches,
(30:31):
could be a really cool episode. Second request is in Jarra.
We recently enjoyed a transcendentally delicious meal from a local
Ethiopian restaurant here in Ithaca, and I realized I know
very little about this lovely bread. Oh two, I mean
a all the bread's. Yes, we should do episodes on
(30:52):
be those are two uh yeah yeah, very specific, super different,
incredibly delicious types of bread. Yes, I'm excited about learning
more about both of those. I remember very vividly the
first time I have in Jarra. I had in Jara.
It was also transcendental. It was amazing. Absolutely, Yeah, I
(31:15):
had some I had some really really really good Ethiopian
um food when I was out in New Orleans a
couple of months ago, and in those Halicon days when uh,
when we didn't know about the Delta variant yet. Um.
But yeah, oh okay, yeah, this this, this listener mail
is making me hungry. Yees ye, Perhaps we should move on.
(31:41):
Michelle wrote, I was so excited about the corn dog episode,
and when you mentioned Cozy Dog, I was grinning ear
to ear. You see, Cozy Dog is about three hours
south of where I live, and it's a tradition for
my husband and I to stop there for corn dogs
on our road trips. It's the first official stop before
going on towards wherever we're bound. If you're are in Springfield, Illinois,
don't miss Cozy Dog. I've attached some photos I've taken
(32:04):
while visiting there. You order corn dogs in quantities of
like four or six, and fries come into basket. Go
with your appetites. I hear you being reluctant to eat
corn dogs. There are good ones, okay ones, and mal ones.
Good ones are hand dipped and fried at the restaurant.
Ones are frozen and in the grocery store freezer. Don't
eat those. Okay ones are generally those fried by restaurants
(32:27):
but not dipped there. And now there are exceptions to these.
For instance, if you're looking for a place to safely
try a corn dog, go to Sonic and get some
corn dog bites. Their nugget sized corn dogs, so you
eat with your hand, no stick. They're even good without
any sauce. That's how I like them, and they're so yummy.
My favorite corn dog ever was a foot long corn
dog at a local county fair. I'm sure I looked
(32:49):
silly carrying it around and eating it, but it was
so worth it. Fair food is the best. And then
a follow up. Okay, so i'm e because my poor
memory caused me to give you an incorrect tip. In
my previous email, I mentioned corn dog bites It's Sonic,
but misremembered that it was actually an an W drive
in restaurant where we had them recently. I'm sure if
(33:10):
Sonic has them that they're good too, but I couldn't
let it go until I corrected myself. I'm not sure
if you'll have any an W restaurants down there. They're
pretty rare these days, but a favorite of mine. Uh yeah,
I believe that Sonic does indeed have corn dog bites. Um,
and I don't think we have any anws around here there.
(33:30):
They're a restaurant. I have a fast food joint anyway
that I have a lot of nostalgia for from road
trips when I was living in Ohio and Pennsylvania as
a tiny kid. Um. But lots of lots of root
beer floats were had on those trips. But but no
corn dog bites, no, no, no, no corn dog bites
(33:51):
that I remember at the time. I honestly don't remember
eating food other than yeah, um goodness, okay, okay, okay.
I I will real hard against anything and everything at
any given moment um. But but that being said, I'm
always willing to try everything, Like, even if it's something
(34:14):
that I know I don't like, I'll be like, yeah, sure,
why not? Yeah same, And this could be the time
Dr Pepper related then get it away from Yeah. Yeah,
well it's probably my big exception. We all have our limits. Yeah,
you've got to have one minute at least. And I
will say I really appreciate this corn dog expertise. I
appreciate the breaking down also the foot long fair corn dog.
(34:41):
I mean, that's that's the beauty of the fair. That's
the beauty of these foods that probably don't taste good
in any other environment, but in that environment, Oh sure, yeah, yeah, yeah,
because you're you've been you've been walking around, You're you're
you're hungry and thirsty, and there's all the smells and
sounds and lights and uh yeah, you know you've got
(35:02):
you've got funnel cake and one nostril and and and
yeend and all that just excess of your like, oh man, yes,
I'm gonna eat so much. Yes, I find that a
very powerful memory. Actually, that the smell, and it's kind
of that smell that I've been saying that I think
that's what I don't like is the old oil. But
I do have an acellagic for that cell of like
(35:26):
this was associated with so many fun events from being
at like fair grounds or whatever and getting these kind
of ridiculous dudes that were wonderful. Yeah, excitement, excitement makes
everything taste better, for sure, that is true. Um and
We're always excited to hear from you listeners. Thanks to
(35:47):
both of these listeners for writing in. If you would
like to write to us, you can our emails Hello
at savor pod dot com. We are also on social media.
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
savor pod. We do hope to hear for meal. Savor
is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for
my Heart Radio, you can visit the i Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
(36:09):
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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