All Artichoked Up

This tart, bitter flower bud that's eaten as a vegetable has inspired serious fans – and artists – around the world. Anney and Lauren get to the heart of the science and history of artichokes.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to save reproduction of iHeart Radio. I'm
Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have
an episode for you about artichokes. I love artichokes. Oh yeah,
me too, Me too, Lauren. Got to see me do
a little bit of a happy dance before this one. Yeah.
I don't have them very often, and so every time

(00:31):
I see them on a menu, I'm like, oh, yes,
it is. It is pretty rare to see them on
menus here on the East Coast. Yeah, exactly. But it's
not like I couldn't get them, and I did. I
followed in the in the wake of our very smart listeners,
and I already bought some artichokes in preparation for the craving.

(00:55):
I already I'm gonna make this pasta my mom and
I used to make, because that was kind of It's like,
my mom and I liked them, and nobody else in
our family really did, so we didn't eat them a lot,
but we would make this pasta with artichokes and capers
and lemon, and it was so good, so bright that
I'm I'm ready. I'm ready to eat it, even though

(01:19):
it is not the right season for all the flavors
I'm describing. Still, No, that sounds like a like a
lovely little little burst of summer in our dreary winter
day that we're having here. Oh yeah, yes, this is
absolutely the kind of weather that makes me want to
just like build a pillow fort and like live inside

(01:40):
of it, which a friend just pointed out. I could
probably easily podcast from inside a pillow fort. You could,
you know, it would be sort of ideal. Yes. I
remember in the early days of the pandemic, NPR posted
an article that was like, if you get a podcast
from home, put up some pillows, and I was like, yeah, world,

(02:02):
uh yeah. But artichokes, yes, so delightful. Um. I didn't
have much experience with them. I don't think I had
any experience with them growing up until I was in college,
and then a friend introduced me to uh to eating
to eating the big ones where you scrape a little
bit of flesh off the big petals um or or
bracts as they are more botanically called. Um. But but

(02:25):
I'm more fond of the baby artichokes. I love those.
I love those. I love those, And I also bought
some in preparation for the cravings, and I like just
adding them to like whatever pasta I'm cooking, and not
directly to the pasta, like to the sauce, to the
sauce part. Yeah, oh my gosh, I'm so excited for

(02:46):
you and for me. Also, this episode has alerted me
to the fact that some people like to a soft
fry of artichokes, and that's that's got to happen to
Oh yeah, yes, what have I been doing? I don't know,
I don't know. Um. Well, we have spoken about vaguely

(03:11):
related plants before, so you can see our sunflower episode
for more information. Strangely enough, I love it, Yes you can,
which I guess brings us to our question. I it
certainly does. Artichokes. What are they? Well? Uh? And art

(03:34):
choke is a type of multiflower bud structure that is
eaten as vegetable, even though it like really doesn't want
you to. Uh. Like. Lots of plants have evolved specifically
to be eaten as part of their genetic plan, and
artichoke is not one of them. Um. The parts of
an artichoke that we eat are the flower support structures, um,

(03:58):
including the bracts, which are sort of specialized leaves. That
protect the flowers inside. We might eat artichokes when they
are young and tender. These are sometimes referred to as
artichoke hearts, or when they are older and more structural um,
in which case we're really just scooping like a tiny
bit of flesh off of the center of the bracts

(04:19):
and then eating that base, which is confusingly also referred
to as an artichoke heart. Anyway, Uh yeah, m artichokes
have this like really lovely herbal tart bitter flavor that
is so bright and sort of citrusy or almost like
tomato eat in a certain way. Um. The hearts, the

(04:41):
baby art chokes are sort of like a tart brustle sprout,
and the older ones are there whole own thing. In practice,
it's almost like eating like steamed muscles or something, because
like you're just getting this tiny little bit of food
off of this naturally grown spoon. Yeah. Um, they're they're
like they're like if a really good tomato was leafy

(05:08):
and hated you respect respect artichoke, Right, You're so good.
They're so good, so worth it, so worth it. Um Okay.
Botanical name Sonera cardunculus, which is a great botanical name. Um. Yeah,

(05:33):
artichokes are part of the astorassier or daisy or sometimes
it's called the sunflower family. Um. And I do find
a sunflower to be a really useful visual comparison here, okay, Um,
just just the same way that a sunflower has like
a big flat disk that hundreds of tiny flower heads
and seeds develop on top of U with a ring

(05:55):
of different petals around the head. So it does an artichoke.
Um all, So, just just out of saying, both artichokes
and sunflowers do grow their flowers and bracts in fibnaci spirals,
so fun map funat. But in an artichoke that that
disc upon which the tiny flowers grow is protected by

(06:17):
these huge structural stiff like scale armor like bracts or
leaves Yeah that uh, that are deep green to purple
in color and will grow up in in that rosebud
style spiral around the disk, forming a sort of a
like a like a hollow tipped scepter. Yeah. Um. And

(06:38):
as the artichoke develops, the bracts get stiffer and larger,
and each will be tipped with a spine, and this
is meant to protect the tiny flowers inside as they develop.
If left alone, eventually the wee flowers will develop into
these long, colorful threads, often bright violet in color, so
vivid um. And then if pollinated, each will form the

(07:00):
stiff little seed with a stiff little thread attached, which
let it drift away on the wind like a like
a dandelion seed. But we eat them before they get
to this point. Um, those flower threads are stiff, like
stick in your throat sort of things. So we either
eat baby artichokes before they've had a chance to develop,
or we carefully work around them. Um. So yeah, so

(07:23):
it's a full grown artichoke will have this fleshy base
with these little developing hairs, and then these big bracts
um sometimes called petals coming up off of it. And
so if you cook the whole thing and then pull
a bract off, it'll have just a little bit of
that flesh at the base of the petal. When they
are older like that, the most common way to eat

(07:44):
them is to steam or roast them whole, and then yeah,
pull off each individual petal and scrape the tender inner
bit off with your teeth. Um, perhaps after having dipped
it in melted butter. Or or some other kind of
dipping sauce. Yeah. Uh, sometimes you might stuff the whole
artichoke with bread crumbs or something before you roast it.

(08:05):
And then after you pull off all of the bracts,
you're you're left with just the tender base. Um, you
just have to scrape off the little spiky, spiny bits
and then you can eat the just a little tender
heart of the artichoke. Oh my gosh, m hmm. That's
really good. It's really good. Um. When they're immature, you
have a little bit more leeway because yeah, they're they're

(08:28):
not as fibrous, and they can be cooked up the
way that you would any other kind of like firm
leafy vegetable, think like a like a cabbage or like
a brussel sprout or maybe a leak something like that.
So yeah, you can do them steamed, sauteed, roasted fried.
It does seem like everyone on the planet who is
really into artichokes agrees that the very best way, which

(08:50):
apparently you have been missing and you know, is to
like very lightly bread them and then deep fry them
and serve them with like some kind of creamy sauce
for dipping. Oh, gosh. If you are in Atlanta there
there's a chain of pubs called Corner tavern Um that

(09:11):
do an appetizer of fried artichokes in this style. It's
a whole, it's a ludicrous number of them late and
I will eat the entire thing. Yeah, that sounds about
right for Corner tavern but noted, thank you for the tip. Yeah. Baby.

(09:32):
Artichokes are also often preserved either pickled or marinated and canned. Um.
You can also get them frozen, which I love. And uh, Generally,
an artichoke is considered a savory food um, because it's
got that that bitter note and and also they're they're
kind of quite tart um. But especially at a festival,

(09:52):
you might find artichokes blended or infused into desserts like
cheesecake or ice cream or cupcakes. Um, you know they
have they do have that tartness, like I can see
it working if you're careful, If you're careful, agreed. Um.
They are known for being one of the few foods
that doesn't really pair well with a lot of wine

(10:13):
because they are so tart um. But but I would
say that a dry, acidic white wine is real nice. Yeah,
I mean you can ye, drink what you like, eat
what you like both both. We can't tell you what
to do exactly. I think you can make it work. Yeah, Well,
what about the nutrition by themselves? Artichokes are pretty good

(10:37):
for you, you know, lots of micronutrients, lots of fiber
once you dip them in butter or deep fry them
and then dip them in like ranch dressing. That's that's
a separate that's a separate issue, gosh, but a delicious issue. Well,
we do have some numbers for you, we do, all right.
So here in the US, California grows about one h

(10:59):
of our artichokes. In the California artichoke crop was worth
about sixty five million dollars, but globally, the United States
is only number twelve in terms of artichoke production. UM Italy, Egypt, Spain, China,
and Peru produce the most in in that in that order,

(11:20):
um art chokes are also grown to produce medicinal extracts,
which have been popular in Europe kind of forever but
never caught on here in the US. As though UM
artichoke extracts were the third most popular herbal supplement in
like several European countries. Wow. Yeah. M At the center

(11:42):
of the California artichoke business though is Monterey County UM
and a town called Castorville UM. Sometimes called the artichoke
capital of the world. It is home to the self
proclaimed world's largest artichoke, which is a concrete sculpture that
is about twenty feet tall and twelve feet wide. That's
like six by three and a half meters UM. Each

(12:05):
pedal is like five or six ft wide. Yeah. Um.
Monterey hosts an annual artichoke festival every June. Was its
sixty second year. Yeah. Um a few years ago. I
got too big for Castorville to handle. So it's like
in a nearby town. UM. In addition to the food

(12:27):
and the music and all of that, there is a
quilt challenge UM, a car show, farm tours, a competitive
artichoke harvesting race, yes and eating contest UM, and an
aggro art competition. Agro is an agricultural not as an
aggressive but both could intersect absolutely absolutely. Uh yeah. This

(12:52):
is this is sculptures made from from from fresh fruit
and vegetables UM. And in this particular case, and trees
must be at least six fresh produce and artichoke. Oh
my gosh, again, I want to see this movie where
there's like the driving piano music is some calculation drawing

(13:15):
out this, Yeah, it could be like Best in Show,
but with artichoke sculpture. Yes, oh my gosh, I'm telling
you we have a lot of good ideas, Hollywood. Why
you haven't contacted us? Um, this Artichoke Festival does have
a mascot. His name is ari Ari the Artichoke. He
looks he looks like a ninja turtle. That's an artichoke.

(13:39):
Oh my god, beautiful. He's wearing like a little like
like purple mask and like a little purple sash and yep,
it's glorious. I mean, I don't know, we need to
do our food mascot episode because so many of these

(13:59):
man scots are just a site of the whole they. Yeah,
it's hard, it's hard in podcasting, it's hard on audio.
But but we can we can make it work. Um.
The same festival also does host events at other times
of the year, including a Haunted House every October that,
as far as I can tell, is not explicitly artichoke themed. O.

(14:23):
I know, I know, I know. Um. They also have
a charity golf tournament in November. It's all run by
this nonprofit that seems like it really puts earnings back
into like education and art support in the local community.
They raised dollars. It seems it seems nice. It seems good. Yeah.
And they are not the world's only artichoke festival. UM.

(14:44):
There are at least three that I've read about in Italy.
UM One outside of Realm has been running every April
since nine UM and it also features an artichoke sculpture
contest key key to the artist festival. It seems I
love this. Meanwhile, the world record for the largest serving

(15:08):
of cooked artichokes was achieved in tween in Spain UM
with one thousand, one hundred and fifty kilos of it
appears to be roasted artichokes. That's two thousand, five thirty
five pounds. Yeah wow, Okay. And and the world record
for the largest artichokes salad was achieved in twenty nineteen

(15:30):
in Peru. The salad wade seven hundred and eighty four kilos.
That's one thousand, seven hundred and twenty nine pounds nine ounces. Yeah,
it was fifty eight percent artichoke by weight. The rest
of the salad was made up of peppers, carrots, green

(15:52):
and black olives, and an unspecified salad dressing that I
think was olive oil based. M m, yeah, unspecified. It's
salad dressing. Sounds very menacing it, Okay, jeez. You know,
if you saw an artichoke just hanging around and you

(16:13):
didn't know what it was, they can look quite menacing.
And they do, they genuinely do. This is another plant
that looks vaguely like Audrey too. And we are not
the only ones that have thought that throughout history. Actually, no, no,
not at all. And we are going to get into
that history as soon as we get back from a
quick break. For a word from our sponsors, and we're back.

(16:43):
Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, And we're back with
a note. Uh, we're not talking about the Jerusalem artichoke.
That is a different episode. I did not know that
was a thing. But it is a different thing. Yes,
it is a different thing. Not for today, not for today, no,
but okay. Artist chokes are widely considered to be one

(17:04):
of our oldest foods um They most likely originated in
the Mediterranean. One of their ancestors, though, the North African thistle,
still grows in the wild to this day. So it's
one of those things that maybe popped up in multiple
places at different times. Um historians think they were first
harvested by folks in the Middle East over two thousand,

(17:24):
five hundred years ago. They made their way to Egypt
and the surrounding area. At first, people were more likely
to eat the leaves as opposed to the flower head,
which is actually pretty common for a good portion of
their history. The artis choke was popular by seventy c. E.
In Rome and in Greece, though it was grown in

(17:45):
that area before then, a popularity they enjoyed until the
Roman Empire fell. People people at this time we're still
probably eating the leaves and the stems instead of the
head of the flower, because as you said, it wasn't
the easiest thing, wasn't using to eat? Yeah no, no,
it was used in things like salads. Wealthy Romans liked

(18:06):
like to eat artichokes, these leaves and stems with honey,
vinegar and human which sounds very nice, yeah right, but
was very crazy for the time. Uh. Theophrostis and Diascurieties
both wrote about artichokes and the potential medicinal uses of them,
while Plenty described them as quote one of Earth's monstrosities, which, honestly,

(18:31):
if I was artichokes, I'd be like, thank you. Yeah,
that's that is what I was going for. You're welcome.
I feel seen. But Plenty also touted the artichokes many
believed medicinal benefits as well, including increasing the chance of
conception of a boy, which at this time was viewed

(18:53):
as a positive thing. All right, Yes, indeed, I have
a poem you know we love food poems that was
published during the time of the Roman Empire about artichokes. Okay,
so here we go. Let the prickly artichoke be planted,
which to Bacchus when he drinks is grateful, not to

(19:15):
Phoebus when he sings. This sometimes rises with a purple head,
sphere like, with scales close and compactly set, Sometimes with
myrtle hair and bended neck. It verdant grows, sometimes with
pungent top like pine tree cone expanded some up here.
Sometimes tis like an osier, baked shaped with threatening prickles, horrid,

(19:38):
sometimes pale. It imitates bracker signs, crooked leaves. Sorry, oh
these yeah, I was with it until those last couple
of lines and then I would have to google a
number of those words. Yes, well we can, based on
context guess that it's related to other things during this

(20:00):
time that might have looked similar. But the whole poem
feels very threatening but also respect you know again, Yeah, yeah,
very fond and very like like that one might bite you, Yeah,
exactly like we see you. I would like to eat you,
but understand it's not the easiest thing. Ah. And speaking

(20:23):
of there is quite the Greek legend about the origin
of artichokes. Alright, So the story goes that one day Zeus,
yes that one Um, saw a beautiful young woman named
Kennara or Sinara the botanical name basically um when visiting

(20:45):
Poseidon on the island of Scenari, and of course he
set about seducing this mortal woman, offering to make her
a goddess Um and his head, of course full of
all of this extra marital relations he could have with
her while his wife Era was away. However, Sonara Cana

(21:05):
soon grew homesick missed her mortal life and friends, so
she snuck out to visit them. Zeus did not like
this and threw her back to Earth, turning her into
an artichoke as a punishment. Wow, I know, man, the
sheer number of things that folks were like, yeah, we've
got that because Zeus Zeus was horny, and then someone

(21:30):
got mad about it. It's like a lot of things,
I know. And there's a part of me. I don't
know if I should be embarrassed about this, Lauren, but
I tried to think of like the true punishment of
being turned into an artichoke. I suppose it would suck.
You can't visit your friends, her family that you wanted to.
You're not a goddess anymore. But I was kind of like,

(21:51):
what an interesting punishment, huh? I mean yeah, because like
you're you're real pretty, and you're also like don't touch
me exactly like And at that point, that's how that's
how I feel. I mean, at a lot of points,
that's how I feel. Anyway, We're all artichokes at some

(22:12):
point in our lives. That's the truth of it. M
uh Well. The popularity of the artichokes in Europe really
didn't start to recover until the fourteen hundreds, when citizens
of Florence, Italy specifically, we're really taken with artichokes, though

(22:32):
documentation shows that they were being grown in Spain during
the eight hundred CE at least. UM. Both of these
instances of artichokes in Europe are believed to have been
introduced by Arab traders and people's um which I couldn't
really find a lot of information about that. That's we've
spoke about that before, the kind of just a lot
of information about what was going on in Europe, but

(22:54):
not so much outside of Europe. Yeah h but this
is we see the emergence of the type of artichoke
with an edible flower head that we're more familiar with. UM.
From there, these artichokes were adopted by nearby regions fairly quickly,
perhaps particularly France, where they were common by the fifteen hundreds.

(23:16):
UM artichokes were probably introduced to England in the sixteen
hundreds around this time to the Spanish sometimes used an
extract from dried artichoke flowers to curdle milk for cheesemaking,
and from what I understand still is a practice. Yeah,
a lot of European cookbooks started including recipes using artichokes,

(23:36):
and sixteen hundreds from pies to just simply boiling them
with one recipe even claiming that they went well with
a glass of wine. See see, Oh my, I love this.
I wasn't expecting this. Okay, So Italian Renaissance pader Caravaggio,

(23:59):
who I guess was a bit of He had a
bit of a reputation for being combative. Once got into
a tussle with a waiter over artichokes um and according
to the waiter's statement to the police, which is in
the historical record, quote, I brought them eight cooked artichokes,
four cooked in butter and four fried in oil. The

(24:21):
accused asked me which were cooked in butter and which
were fried in oil, and I told him to smell them,
which would easily enable him to tell the difference. He
got angry and without saying anything more, grabbed an earthenware
dish and hit me on the cheek at the level
of my mustache, injuring me slightly. And then he got
up and grabbed his friend's sword which was lying on

(24:41):
the table, intending perhaps to strike me with it. But
I got up and came here to the police station
to make a formal complaint. Wow, there's a part of
me that thinks can't be true. But there's a part
of me that it's hard. I can see it happening.
I can se it seems just exactly petty enough. It's

(25:06):
like it's like reading Reddit posts and you're like, is
this for real? For real or right? Like I can't
envision it in my circle of friends. Sure, but I'm
I'm given to understand that it does happen sometimes things
like this. Yeah, you're like, you know, I can't get
the fingers right and just poof. Yeah, well, I'd love

(25:27):
to imagine the idea. What what throws me off the
most is that he pulls the sword and then the waiter,
from what we're to understand, runs from the restaurant straight
to the police station. If a famous and famously combative
artist came at me with a sword as a waiter,

(25:48):
I would definitely go straight to the police station. That's relatable. Um. Also,
I guess good good time to note, Hey y'all, Like, like,
if you're if you're dealing with with service industry humans
during these are holiday times, be nice to them. They're
they're working so hard, they're working so hard, and they
you know, if they ask you to smell your own artichokes,

(26:10):
do it. I smell your own artichokes is our next shirt. Wow.
Perfect um. But yes, don't pull a sword on your
service people, don't. Yeah, it's okay. I can smell your artichokes.

(26:30):
It's okay. Yeah, smell your own artichokes. It's gonna be great. Um, Okay,
moving on, Okay, Yes, Catherine de Medici factor of the
episode awesome Okay. As with many things, she often gets
credited with boosting the popularity of artichokes in the fift
hundreds in Europe, when she introduced them to French King Henry.

(26:53):
The Second Chronicler wrote in fifty six, the Queen mother
ate so much she thought she would die and was
very ill with diarrhea. They said it was from eating
too many artichoke bottoms and the combs and kidney of
cock rolls, of which she was very fond. Look, chroniclers,

(27:15):
if this is my situation, I just don't need you
to talk about my diarrhea based on artichokes. Okay, Yeah,
you can leave that one out of the history books.
You have my permission, yes, unless I say otherwise, No needed. Uh.
That same year, the Book of Nature included this quote

(27:38):
about the artichoke. It has the virtue of provoking venus
for both men and women. For women making them more
desirable and helping the men who are in these matters
rather tardy. Mm hmm, goodness, I know. And in fact,
some sources I found indicated that in the sixteenth century

(27:58):
in Europe women were discouraged from eating artichokes due to
the fact that they were perceived to be an afro duzyac. Wow. Jeez, okay, um,
kind of throw my arms up at that one. But okay,
Washington and Jefferson grew artichokes, and Jefferson used the keyword

(28:24):
artichoke as part of his cipher for his correspondences with
Lewis and Clark, And there's a whole website about it
where you can read about it. It was very interesting.
But um, French immigrants bought artit chokes with them to
the U s and the eighteen hundreds, and at first
artichoke cultivation was pretty localized to Louisiana in in the US,

(28:48):
but with the help of Italian immigrants growing artichokes in
the US and the nineteen hundreds, the US commercial artichoke
market really started to take off, especially in the twentieth century. Um,
and yeah, much of it was in California. One big
name in this conversation is that of California landowner Andrew Malea,
who in n least some of his land previously set

(29:11):
aside for growing sugar beets, which, hey, we have an
episode about that. Uh so that Italian immigrants could grow
a quote new vegetable artichokes, mostly because the crop was
pretty lucrative. Yeah, yeah, and this was in the aforementioned Castroville. Yes,
and then something else that I was like, this is
a whole other episode, but I'm going to mention the

(29:32):
briefest thing here. In the nineteen twenties, member of the
mafia Cheiro Terra Nova Whitey, earned the name the Artichoke
King when he cornered the artichoke market by buying up
all of the shipments from California meant for New York
and selling them at a thirty profit um, and he
would like harass suppliers and growers. He had artichoke crops destroyed.

(29:57):
This eventually led to then New York Mayor to Claire
quote the sale, display, and possession of artichokes illegal. However,
as a big fan and with dropping profits, I'm sure
there was a lot of other things going on. He
crumbled pretty quickly lifted the bands who after. In fact,
I read in some place in a week I think, so,

(30:19):
I don't know. It seems like it was sort of
a maybe a political thing and it didn't work out.
So yeah, yeah, but still food crime, food crime crime.
M Yeah, I wasn't expecting this either. In Marilyn Monroe
was named the inaugural Artichoke Queen at the Castroville Artichoke

(30:40):
Festival in Cashaville, California. As you said, the artichoke Center
of the world. From what I understand, this was an
honorary title. She did not participate in a pageant. Yeah.
A lot of the head titles were night titles. A
lot of the headlines were very passive, aggressive almost. It's interesting.
It's it's one of the stories that does sound so

(31:02):
so apocryphal. And I've seen, I've I've read in so
many different ways of like how exactly this happened, um
that it sounds like one of those stories that just
got made up and then yeah, distributed strangely through weird
games of telephone. And I think some of that telephone
thing is happening. But there's totally a photo of her

(31:24):
with this sash so yeah, I too thought, Am I
being bunket in my podcast research? Yeah? Uh, well you
can look it up. Um, there are some even like
ties like back to this whole mafia situation, like the
way that some stories tell it. They're like, well, they

(31:46):
had to hire Marilyn Monroe to come out and like
smooth over this whole artichoke kerfuffle. I think that I
think that one is apocryphal. But she but she wore
a sash at something anyway, she did. I guess the
implication I got for most of the passive aggressive what
felt passive aggressive things I read was she didn't win it.

(32:09):
I was given it through various nefarious purposes. There was
an ulterior motive. But you know, listeners, if you have
any information to crack this case. Which speaking of okay
artichoke dip, um, I couldn't find too much about it.

(32:31):
I admittedly did not dig too hard. But uh, and
I bet we could do a whole dip episode including
artichoke dip later. But spinach and artichoke dip, which if
you're not familiar, is kind of a creamy artichoke spinach
dip is delicious took off in the us in the
nineteen fifties when Americans were all about finger foods and

(32:53):
dips and chips, and I bet like our fondue episode
as it's kind of going on. Um. Yeah, yeah, I've
tried to look into it a couple of times. Because
I've tried to. I feel like every time we do
like a like a super Bowl related episode, uh like
that's one of the subjects that kind of comes up.

(33:14):
And I don't think there's enough for a full episode,
but we could certainly do a mini episode about about
that because right like, and I think that it really
comes down to like a frozen spinach producer was like, Hey,
mixed this with sour cream and maybe this other tart
stuff and maybe some like ranched powder, and uh, it's
a dip now. And people are like, yeah, it's a

(33:36):
dip now. Um, as far as I can tell, that's
the whole story. Um. But yeah, yeah, I have a
friend who always shows up with spinach and artichip dip
And it's one of those like very specific, defining details
that makes me love people. Yeah, it's I had I
love this stuff. It's so like like comforting and like

(33:57):
nostalgic for me. Yeah, uh. California named the artichoke their
official state vegetable. And I'm so impressed by this because
for for everything, for for all of the produce that
California has going on, it really means that they are
serious about this artichoke stuff. Yes, yes, indeed I had

(34:22):
a similar reaction. I mean, it's impressive. I think that's
what we have to say about the artichoke for now.
I think it is. I think it is. We do
have some listener mail for you, though, and we are
going to get into that as soon as we get
back from one more quick break for a word from
our sponsors. And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you,

(34:53):
and we're back with I feel like those kind of
creepy opening flowers and movies, they like slowly open like
that and then the tongued darts out. The vibe artichokes
give me in a way that I like, yeah, yeah,

(35:15):
or maybe they've got an eyeball inside. Yeah, I love
a flower with an eyeball. Yeah, me too. I do
your description earlier of like the scepter top, I think
that's that's on point. We could make a really good
like living sculpture, I guess costume of produce involving artichokes,
because I think you can make like a crown out

(35:36):
of the leaves and stuff. Absolutely, yeah, and some of
the right, um, A lot of the sculptures that I
saw when I was reading about these festivals that feature
these sculpture contests, Yeah, have um right, like the petals
or bracts pulled off and then used like like scales
to create like animal shapes or stuff like that. So
really cool, really beautiful. Yes, I'm going to look that

(35:59):
up later, but in the meantime, Kelsey wrote, my family
and I are blessed with a large mature hazel tree
in her backyard and another across the street next to
an alley in her neighborhood. Ours produces longer, slightly narrower nuts.
The neighborhood tree produces chubbier, shorter nuts. Those shapes are delicious.
We are currently in the middle of processing the approximately

(36:21):
one of nuts we harvested from the two trees. There
is a reason these delectable morsels are pricey. Our first
round of buy hand processing yielded over one kg of
roasted hazel nuts, but this was accomplished after several weeks
of in shell drying and a handful of hours of shelling.

(36:42):
From there, it's an easy, peasy twenty minutes at three
fifty degrees fahrenheit for approximately forty worth of crunchy tree butter.
Now to do it one hundred more times. Attached or
pictures of the hazel nuts in question. The jar was
once so full I could not lit it. Snack have
been had and our dog Hazel, Yes, she is named

(37:03):
after the tree and the snack and hazel. Super cute
of course. Uh wow, Yeah, this is amazing. That's a
lot of hazelnuts. Is overwhelming, conceptually overwhelming amount of hazelnuts.
It is, it is, and it is a lot of
work I can see to get, uh, you know, some

(37:27):
some tree butter. As you said, crunchy tree butter. But
I bet it's delicious. I have no experience with this,
so that's super cool to hear from you. Um it
did remind me of I play a lot of Mario
party and there is a Mario party board where it's
Peach's birthday cake and there's a there's a juncture where

(37:50):
you have to choose a nut and hopes that bowser
you won't draw a bowser's attention. And they always reminded
me of hazel nuts, but some of them are kind
of like chubby ears. I thought when I read this,
huh oh, and it did occur to me, Annie that
I'm nearly positive that you have, in fact had a
whole hazelnut before, because have you ever had a Ferrero

(38:13):
rochet um one of the candies that's like, um, they're
in the little golden wrappers and there there may be
about an inch and a half across, and they're they're
like a little like bond bond, like a little round
bond bond, and then there's like a chocolate layer and
then a crunchy layer, and then some hazel nut cream
and like a whole hazelnut inside there. Commercials come out

(38:35):
every holiday season, like especially around like Christmas and New
Year's as like a this is the fanciest party candy
you can have a fancy party with, but in a
very like Italian like in their champagne in the background
kind of way. Okay, I probably have. It's not ringing

(38:55):
any bells, but I mean I probably okay, I probably
feel I feel if you had had one, it would
there there would be a bell, but oh no, sorry, well, um,
Danielle wrote, I'm from northern New Jersey. I grew up

(39:18):
in Jersey City and the only type of pork roll
at our supermarkets growing up was Taylor Ham Or maybe
that's all my family bought brand loyalty. It's the only
kind I will buy. I have since moved away from
my hometown, but I'm still in New Jersey and I'm
a little behind on my podcast listening. But saw this
episode on the menu see what I did there? And

(39:38):
went to our local shop right which is one of
our local supermarkets, and only found cases. I didn't buy it.
I'm Taylor Ham girl through and through. As for the taste,
it's a salty, tangy. The texture is soft and chewy,
but not like bacon. A bacon is stringy. This is
more like a like a thinly sliced meat loaf. Yes,

(39:59):
you do have to cut slits in it. I've never
requested slits. The local deli knows better. And when you order,
it's Tailor Ham egg cheese on a roll with salt, pepper.
Catch up all one word. We are in New Jersey.
We ain't got time for grammar anyway. An ex boyfriend
of mine and I would argue about it is he
called it pork roll. In his defense, he lives in
some imaginary place called Central New Jersey. I kid, I kid,

(40:24):
and Central New Jersey is another thing us New Jersey
and argue about. As for my grandma's tomato soupcake, I
was talking with my mom about it. My mom said
she made it with tomato soup at some point, but
just switched to a spiced cake mix as it was
easier for her. But the magic was the icing. A
whole container of chocolate icing and a whole bar of

(40:46):
Philadelphia cream cheese had to be Duncan Hind's cake mix too.
She would soften the cream cheese and dump the icing
into a bowl and beat with a hand mixer. If
you knew she made it, you didn't tell anyone because
everyone would come over and have a piece. And I
don't mean a small piece. I'm in like an Italian
grandma's sized piece. Anyway, have a happy holiday, look forward
to writing it again soon. PS come to New Jersey.

(41:08):
We have an incredible food scene here and you can
get a tailor HAMMG cheese salt pepper catch up. Sold sold.
We asked for people to write in about how you
order it and you delivered. That is wonderful. It's so
specific a local and brand loyalty throughout. Um. Yeah, because

(41:32):
you've also got duck in Hines cake mixing here, cream cheese.
I also I've never um, ordering salt and pepper on
a sandwich is never something I've done, but I but
I know that it's a thing that you do with
Deli sandwiches. And I especially love the combination of it
with catch up here and that that is the way
to to do it. That's great. Yeah, And I like

(41:53):
that there's this kind of understood like I don't need
to ask for the slits. We know that's what's going down.
Oh sure, yeah, well because other otherwise it curls up
and then yeah, I'm determined to try this. I actually
looked the other day. I didn't see any I saw
a product that I think is a I could be wrong,
but I think was a Southern attempt at it. They

(42:17):
had some vague language. I was like, maybe that maybe,
but I'm determined to try it. I'm determined. Yeah, We've
got a lot of ham products in the South, but
I don't think because this is again right like like
more like a meatloaf kind of situation or like a
Maloney situation. Um that I'm so sorry. I know that
some of you are like yelling at me all over again.
I'm saying that it is similar in texture and formation,

(42:42):
not that it is the same product. Careful, I I'm
trying to be I'm trying to be um. But yeah,
I've I've never I've never seen that kind of thing.
Like most of our Ham products are more like whole
smithm products. So well, we'll keep looking. Um. Oh yeah,
your your invitation is noted. I love this further debate

(43:05):
about central New Jersey. Um. And I also love that
your grandma switched out the tomato soup cake. If the
spice cakes makes that so funny, it's great, all of those,
all of it. Yes, thank you. Thanks to both of
you for writing. If you would like try to see
you can or emails hello at saberpod dot com. We

(43:27):
are also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Saver is production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts my heart Radio, you can visit the
I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our superproducers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming

(43:48):
your way.