October 31, 2018 • 35 mins
Amari, bitter liquors long loved in Europe, are catching on and even being made here in the States. Anney & Lauren delve into the weird history of amaro with help from an Asheville producer – and present the ghost story that inspired their name.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
They had a book called Ghost Dogs at the Appalachia, Right, Yeah,
when shut about as well. I mean, I'm sure on
the online I could probably find that. Hello, and welcome
to Savor. I'm Anny Rees and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And
if you're listening to this on the day that it
comes out, or I mean maybe on another day, it
(00:29):
could be Halloween, it could be there's a chance that
it is. Yes, And Halloween is one of Lauren and
I's favorite holidays, maybe favorite holiday. It's certainly up there.
It's not as good for like feasting, that's true, well,
feasting on candy and then regretting everything later. Yeah, I
have fewer regrets after Thanksgiving or Christmas meals. M I
(00:53):
actually have a pretty strict rule about my Halloween candy consumption.
I allow myself five candies, and it's Reese's kit, can't
I'll enjoy butterfinger eminempe nuts and then that's it. And
like five units of candy you're not talking about. You're
allowed to eat as much of those five as you want,
only one of each. But it's king size, and I
(01:16):
have to get it for free. I can't buy them,
so I have to find them. If it's king size,
that's fine. If it's a fun size, that's fine. Anyway,
we're not talking about my candy. No, No, we are
talking about Amorrow, which strangely enough has some of the
keystones of any good Halloween story. Spirits, Yeah, the alcohol variety,
(01:39):
see what you did there, also ghosts, which is magicians
who never reveal the secrets of their tricks. They aren't tricks,
their illusions. Yes, we're talking about Amorrow, which is a
type of alcohol. While we were in Ashville, we got
to visit an Amari distillery. Yeah, and I didn't know
(02:02):
much about Amari before this, But you're a pretty big fan,
aren't you. Oh yeah. I love ordering a shot of Amari,
or perhaps one with just like a couple of ice
cubes after dinner or at the end of an evening
if my stomach is maybe a little bit unsettled. There's
a pretty good chance that if my stomach is unsettled
because I've been drinking all evening, then that shot of
(02:24):
for Net or whatever it is is the last thing
that I actually should consume. Yeah, because it is still alcohol.
But yes, I like them very much, and they're great
in cocktails. I've consumed, especially recently as bars have started
stalking more different kinds of them a whole lot around Atlanta. Yeah,
I have seen it a lot more nowadays. But I
(02:46):
remember the first time I had for NET. I was
with a coworker of ours, Chandler, and we were out
very late and he somehow came up and he was like,
you've never heard of for net, You've never had for net.
We're really going to impress his bartender and order some
for Net and we did in the bartender was like
oh wow, and he gave us a free shot. It
(03:06):
was pretty cool, man, that's lovely. It was. Yeah. I
once won a Yager drinking contest in Australia. I just
wanted to throw this in there, like humble brag, humble brag,
not so humble brag. But all the other competitors were
already wasted and I was sober. So I think that's
how I won. I should put in here. Drink responsibly kids. Yes, yes,
(03:28):
it is funny that the prize I got was a
hundred and fifty dollar bar tab. Wow. I thought that
was an interesting choice of prize. Hey, Yeager, myster, of
course is a German LaCour amri our Italian. They're in
a related group. But we've been talking about this thing
and you might be totally confused as to what we
are speaking about. So this brings us to our question,
(03:49):
am what are they? Well, Amari that's a plural, the
singular being amorrow are a loosely defined category of herbal
liquors that originated in Italy or m originally came to
popularity there anyway, and they can be in either the
category of appertivo or digestivo, meant to be drank before
(04:12):
a meal to stimulate your appetite or after a meal
to help with digestion. And if you haven't tried one straight,
if you drink cocktails, you have probably had one in
a cocktail. Types of amri are key ingredients in negronis
and apperl spritzes, both of which are pretty popular right now. Yeah,
And when it comes to a b V or alcohol
by volume, the number can range from to sev. Sometimes
(04:38):
they're aged in barrels, sometimes they're not. And if you're
wondering about flavor, well, amarrow is the Italian word for bitter,
if that gives you any idea, But they don't have
to be bitter. Well, they're always a little bit bitter,
but some range very dry, which brings out that bitterness more,
whereas others are quite sweet, sort of bitter sweet. And
depending on what herbs and spices and barks and roots
(04:59):
and roots and nuts and other snips and snails they're
made with, they can taste warm and spicy or like
bracing lee binty. And mentally, they can be citrus bright
or wood see dark. They can be grassy or vegetal,
or a little bit of all of the above. If
you're getting the idea that there is a lot of
variation in this category, you are totally correct. I love
(05:20):
this quote describing a Mari I found in a Savor
article from Southern Tigue over at New York City Bidders
Tasting Room. A more Ya Margo quote. How I explain
it to people, It's unexplainable. It's the wild West as
far as definition goes. Yeah, like apple, all that same
light orange liqueur that makes those spritz is so delightful.
Shares the category with for net Bronca, that sort of
(05:44):
mouth washy stuff that your bartender friend orders shots of,
and lots of different styles fit into the amorrow category.
Um alpino, rubber baro, car chiefio. And if all of
those words are totally unfamiliar to you, no worries. We
will get into a few of them in a bit here.
But more even than the breadth of styles of amori,
part of the difficulty in pinning down a definition is
(06:07):
the shroud of secrecy around the ingredients. You start with
a base alcohol, usually a neutral spirit like either brandy
or like a vodka, and then infuse it with whatever
you get and whatever you want to. Those ingredients are
proprietary and passed down from one generation to the next
and kept secret, like your grandmother's prize winning cookie recipe.
(06:28):
It's the Nestle Toll health recipe. Oh excuse me, tolows
i kid i kid that's an old friends reference for
anyone who doesn't know it. A marii date back to
medieval Europe, with pharmacists and monks prescribing the herbal tinctures
for medicinal purposes as early as the fourteen hundreds. Italian
(06:51):
merchants commercialized them in the seventeen hundreds, and this helped
cement their cultural significance in that country. By the nineteenth century,
Italian enjoy different kinds as either an impaired tief or
a digestif or both. It's, along with other bittering agents,
are thought to aid digestion, So why not All sorts
of ingredients that wind up in amari have this folk
(07:13):
history of medicinal use. Some of the most common ones
include Gentian root, which is thought to stimulate the liver,
chincona bark, which is the same stuff used to extract
coining and a long thought to be a stomach settler
and fever reducer, Angelica root, which is a pain reliever
and digestive aid. Mirror and green cardamom, both of which
are used for their heating properties and humoristic medicine. Um mint,
(07:36):
bitter orange, starnese, cinnamon, orris, wormwood, rhubarb. All this stuff,
all kinds of things. Yeah, Before Prohibition, Americans could get
their hands on a marine cities or areas with large
Italian communities. During Prohibition, one brand was allowed to keep
selling their wares as a cough medicine for net Bronka.
(07:59):
American soldiers returning home after being stationed in Italy during
World War Two brought with them a taste for amri,
and that opened up the US market a bit more.
One popular brand was Campari, which in Italy was seen
as a ladies drink because of the sweetness and the color.
Find that very interesting and something else interesting about for
(08:19):
net Bronca, for net Bronca and Coca Cola is the
national cocktail of Argentina. Yeah, a mari are very popular
in Argentina. Indeed they are, and a while they have
been popular there for decades and in Europe for centuries,
only recently did they start to take off here in
these states. Let's look at some amar numbers. In the
last decade, A mari sales in the US have multiplied
(08:41):
by eight times, and sales are up globally to consumption
of bitter liquors around the world raised four pent from
to seventeen and is projected to rise another thirty percent
between now and when a mari first started getting popularity
in the early aughts year in the States, that brand
for ne Bronca became a sort of bartender's handshake, ordering
(09:05):
one being sort of shorthand for saying like, oh, hey,
I'm industry too, We're chill right, And then, coinciding with
the classic cocktail movement, bars started stalking not just like
one or two for that handshake, or to make a
mixed drink, but whole ranges for sipping straight or on
the rocks. Furthermore, Americans have been developing their palette for
(09:26):
better flavors, and in this our second decade of the
twenty one century, like, think about how much more often
you see espresso offered instead of just coffee um or
the wild growth of I p A style beer. We
have whole restaurants that are devoted to kale. I love kale,
I love kale too. But what I'm saying is that
we are getting more bitter by the minute. Yes, which
(09:46):
is great news for you, right favorite flavor? It certainly
is I know you, Lauren. And making a mari isn't
a strictly European thing anymore either, Asheville is home to
one of America's few amori makers, Chris Bauer and Rhett Murphy,
founders of the Ata Rhyne Distillery Company. We'd see there
(10:06):
are marian cocktails on menus around town, and we thought
we'd stop by for a tasting and let's see what
their story was. Here's Chris. We make a regional amari
that uses plants that have traditionally been used as fault
medicine in Western North Carolina. Western North Carolina has traditionally
(10:28):
been a hub for medicinal plants. We have a very
very bio diverse region here, and so we create spirits
that reflect the flavors of this region and the and
the plants of this region. They make three different styles
of amari, A light and dry alpine style tomorrow, a
(10:53):
dark and pungent for net, and deep sweet nutty necino,
just you know, out of what's local and traditional to
North Carolina, not Italy. We went in for samples and
I think that I'm the only one of the three
of us along with superproducer Dylan, who's familiar, particularly with
the category. It's a very intense experience, and when we
(11:13):
were talking about tasting notes, we we definitely had responses
all across the board. I was just like, oh, this
one tastes grassy and floral. And I'm notoriously really bad
at describing flavors, which is great for this job. I
do remember that I never had anything like can occino before,
and I remember that being kind of both sweet and
(11:34):
chocolate but a little bitter. I really liked it. And
then the other ones. Floral is a good description. I
think they were pretty earthy and floral. Yeah, it is
like there's so many flavors going on that can be
hard to describe. Here's Chris again along with Rhett. The
interesting thing about you know tomorrow as again as a
(11:56):
genre of spirits, as you know, it's this intense combination
of different botanicals and how they react in your mouth,
in your palate. You can have a very subjective experience
of what you're tasting and part of when when we
were developing these flavors, which took a really long time,
(12:16):
the addition or subtraction of certain things wouldn't necessarily do
what you thought it would do because of the synergy
of ingredients together. Actually is kind of the beauty of
these things. As far as what makes up that flavor profile.
Like magicians safeguarding their secrets, the creators weren't telling. We'll
get into that after a quick break for word from
(12:38):
our sponsors, and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So yes,
secrecy injury. As we have discussed, tradition is a big
part of the lore around Amari, and the folks at
(13:00):
at Orion wanted to honor that when we asked about
the ingredients and process behind at arian samari. Yeah, Lom,
what was the word. We love the traditions of the
tomorrow making right and pretty much across the board, everything
that is made, the recipes, how it's made, tends to
(13:22):
be secret. There is a tradition of secrecy that goes
along with the making of amari, and we abide by
that tradition. Yeah, I'm sure that doesn't sure, that is
not what you wanted to hear. But uh, but you
know this this comes from to me, I love amari
(13:46):
as sort of a genre of spirits because it has
this very mysterious past and this comes from these ancient
alchemical recipes that were given to emperors and given to monks,
and the history is a very almost coco in like
(14:06):
all the different mysteries and and folk tales, and but
at the end of the day, I think that it's it. Basically,
this genre started out as Faulk medicine, right. These are
elixirs or panaceas you know. They would share one part
(14:27):
of their process with us, where the ingredients come from.
Whatever goes into making these spirits is sourced locally, including
from Rhett's own farms and the surrounding woods. The exception
is during the winter months when ingredients from California and
Florida come into the equation out of necessity. That's where
their year rounds. They also make some seasonals, only available
(14:47):
for brief windows throughout the year. Some of the stuff
is wild crafted um that lends a seasonality that we
can't break through. So we have one spirit year that
we can only make one time of the year, and
that's because it comes out of the forest. We have
another one that I'm not gonna have you guys taste
(15:08):
because it's a secret. So many secrets. But let's talk
about the things that we did dry, like the noccino
And as I said, I'd never even heard of these,
and it brings us to our second what is it
moment of the episode. Noccino is a type of amari
that is made from walnuts, unripe green walnuts to be exact.
(15:33):
You pick them and chop them up whole. They'll have
a green outer shell that contains the developing inner shell
and the nut, that inner shell being the one that
you eventually would crack open to get at the nut
if you shell your own walnuts. Yeah, so you chop
them up and then you pack them with whatever botanicals
and spices you want, some sugar in there, and pack
them in alcohol that neutral spirit like the vodka the
(15:54):
brandy again. And yeah, there is a lot of history
behind Nuccino too. Luckily for us, Chris is a willing storyteller.
So traditionally, no Chino. They haven't been as big commercial
spirits as they are like homemade spirits in Italy. And
so traditionally, on said John the Baptist day, John the
(16:16):
Baptist night, the three of June was the traditional harvest day.
When the Romans took over the Britons, they discovered that
on the you know, summer solstice, they were drinking this
strange beverage that had black walnuts in it, and that
(16:39):
they would drink this beverage and they would talk to
goblins and witches. And the Romans loved this beverage so
much that they took it back to Rome and it
was a summer solstice tradition. Once the Empire turned to Christianity,
like everything else, they took the pagan holidays them into Christendom,
(17:01):
and so they made it a tradition that on St.
John the Baptist night, the women would climb the trees
barefoot to pick the black walnuts as the men tended
giant bonfires. And these bonfires were designed to keep the
(17:22):
witches away because the witches desired the black walnuts. We
told you there would be witches. We would never mislead
you about witches. Everybody wanted the black walnuts, but the
witches loved the black walnuts so much because the black
walnuts were hermaphroditic right. They had this perfect union between
(17:47):
masculine and feminine. So they would pick it at night
and they would tend to these bonfires, and they would
have to keep these witches away because what made the nutsie,
you know, work, was that the dow would fall, the
morning dew would fall on the black walnuts and impregnate
(18:09):
them with this magic, creating this um elixir and pantasy
of great health, and so that they would they would
take the walnuts on St. John the Baptist Day, and
then they would start creating the nucino and uh and
they would they would store this nucino until November when
(18:31):
they would break it out and you would celebrate the
holidays and then go through the winter and drink called
the nucino and then you would be ready to start
the process again. So we would love to have people
climb trees barefoot around here, but unfortunately, our black walnuts
(18:57):
really don't come into the right size until a little
bit later in the year. So um, when we can,
we'll keep the tradition. We were curious about what inspired
Chris and Rhet to recreate these traditions in Asheville because
its interest in distilling actually started with a different liquor.
(19:17):
You know, I grew up here in western North Carolina,
so just as a matter of fact of everyday life,
my pappy would take me into the woods and we
would you know, he would teach me about different plants
and and their uses, whether they were edible plants or
medicinal plants, and that was just like sort of a
(19:38):
part of my life that again was just sort of pedestrian.
I didn't really think too much about it, and then
as I became a teenager, I really didn't care about it.
You know. I had the opportunity as a as a
young man to live over in Europe for a couple
of years, and that's where I sort of started very
first getting to know some of the Amari and things
(19:58):
like Chartrusse. And at one point I came across the
story about how there was this counterfeit Chartreus that that surfaced,
um and I was just so fascinated, obviously by the
story of Chartreus, and I said, you know what, I'm
gonna attack this recipe. I want to counterfeit and Chartreus, right,
(20:22):
you know, bad idea. I did not figure that one out.
But what I did figure out was I started while
like working with these alpine plants, some of which I
had already known from uh here, and then it just
sort of started, just sort of a light bulb came on,
(20:42):
you know, like, well, you know this is all like
herbal liqueurs, you know Tomorrow's tonics. We have such a
huge history with that here in western North Carolina. And honestly,
one day I woke up. I was living in a
cabin out in Fairview, which is about thirty minutes outside
of town, and um, I was on sixty acres and
(21:04):
I had walked that land, and I knew what medicinal
plants we had at their root. Amri our vehicles for storytelling,
they're meant to take you to a place. Chris did
describe one experience he had with a homebrewed tomorrow is
being a little trippy, a little reminiscent of the whole
like absinth, green fairy kind of thing. Note here that
(21:25):
absinth does not actually have measurable psychoactive properties aside from
getting you drunk. We did a whole episode about that.
But I would also say that one should exercise caution
when infusing medicinal plants into boothe I think that is
some good advice. But some experiences transport you in a
different way. I just thought to myself, this is how
(21:48):
you can affect people. This is the high art, right.
That's something I love about these flavors is that there
is something like you somehow experience the history and the
care and the process, and you know that is even
a little connection to the land a little bit too,
(22:08):
you know. I mean, this is this is literally a
product of this place that I really love. And so
I don't know, there could be a little bit of
that as well, I would hope. So that's what that's
what our passion is is to have captured this place,
capture this ter war, you know, and the people everything combined.
That's what I like about tar War, right, It's everything,
(22:30):
you know, soil, people, water, insects, yeah, wind, you know.
But hey, we promised you a ghost story. We would
not stif if you want to go story and we
will get to it as soon as we get back
(22:50):
from one more quick break for a word from our sponsor,
and we're back. Thank you sponsor. So one of the
questions that we asked the guys that at a rhyme
was where did you get that name? And they were
(23:12):
a little mysterious about it, as they were about so
many things. M M. They said it was taken from
a local ghost story, but that they wanted to wait
until October to release it publicly. So we caught up
with Chris on the phone a couple of weeks ago
about why they chose that story and that name. Yeah,
the decision comes from two different places. The first one
(23:37):
was that, you know, we really wanted a very southern
um kind of name, like a beautiful very you know,
there's a lot of beautiful, unique names down here in
the South and especially up here in the mountains, and
(23:57):
we wanted to have liked this this type of of
name and something even how how it sounds, how how
you speak it, and with that and thinking about it,
like it seemed like there were so many like that
the Land of Spirits were occupied by mainly male names.
(24:20):
You know some of the classics Jack Daniels and Beamed,
you know, happy Name, Lincol. You know, it's like the
branding is sort of male dominated. And we were like,
there's so many beautiful female names. We would like to
have female names. Um. And then thinking about that, then
there's this ghost story and it's the ghost story of
(24:46):
Eta Rhyme and and to me, that name is just
a very beautiful Southern um name. And then looking into
the story itself, that is revenge story. It is a
moralistic tale, and uh, it just seemed to really fit them.
(25:08):
I don't know the zeitgeist at the moment. And ghost
stories based in Hayward County, which is you know where
my family is from, and um where it's very close
to Asheville. Um, Hayward County is one county over and
I still have a lot of family over there, and
it just seemed like a nice thing. We will never
(25:30):
turn down a good ghost story. We're a bad one
for that matter. We're pretty equal opportunity when it comes
to ghost stories. But we had to ask why whether
they are or not. I feel like ghost stories, for
the most part have much really um deep things to
say and can communicatings through uh these whether or not
(25:54):
their fantasies or not, um things that really can you know,
have impacted in our lives. So in the in the
case of the ghost story of a Run, I think
I come away with some very solid insights on humanity
and just some moral instruction that's quite you know, quite fearful,
(26:19):
uh and should be, because the world in which we
live in is not always a noice place and the
people who live in this world are always nice, and uh,
we as individuals have to endure horror through our lives,
and I think that these kinds of stories just sort
of given expression to that, whether it's our fears, our anxieties,
(26:42):
or our actual experience. But it's it's alten fun, you know.
That's also we've talked about those metaphors, the way that
horror can reflect culture before on the show when we
did that reading of a Goblin Market with the stuff
to blow your mind. Guys and Anny, you and I
have talked about it on your other stuff. Mom never
told you. Yes, I think probably anyone who's listened to
(27:05):
me speak for more than a minute, knows that I
love horror movies and I think that they are a
great reflection of anxieties we have as a culture and
moral hang ups and all kinds of fascinating parts of humanity. Yeah,
that episode, Um, if y'all don't listen to stuff mom
never told you a it's really fantastic and be and
(27:27):
he invited me on to talk about women in horror
movies and why you know that trope in the first
ten minutes of the movie where a lady is like,
I have a bad feeling about this, this seems can
we leave, and you know, all the dudes around her
are like, Oh, don't worry, You're so anxious and womanly,
it will be just fine. And then everyone hacken dies. Yes, yeah,
(27:50):
you know that old trope. That trope. Yeah, so why
are women not believed in horror movies and real life?
So go check that out if that seems like a thing,
that's interesting. I think we had a lot of fun
talking about it. But yeah, I mean, that's all very serious,
but it's also just fun. Yeah. Chris got a local
North Carolinian poet to tell the story of a Ryan
(28:12):
for them one Benjamin Prior, is it go story time?
I think it's go story time? Yes, all right, take
it away. The legend of ed Iran starts back in
Civil War days up on Leatherwood Top and Haywood County
near Cataluchi. Well, a lot of people don't know, is
(28:33):
not everybody in the South wanted to be a part
of the Confederacy. A lot of poor people didn't. And
being a poorer farming and family in Iran and her
father didn't care for the secession at all, put him
in odds with the rich people of the county. One day,
Grady Mitchell, the son of the richest man in the valley,
(28:54):
came riding up the road and laid eyes on that
Iran now and it was very beautiful in her then
on spirit fair skin, and said to glow like a
halo around her. Grady Mitchell decided he had to have her,
but Dada refused his advances because she was in love
with another boy who lived across the mountain and Shelton's
(29:14):
coat called Bird. He was a poor toback, a farmer's boy.
Eda Rhyan loved him, didn't care that he was poor
because he had a good soul and treated her with respect.
Grady Mitchell obsessed over Edda. He convinced his daddy to
use his standing to talk at his father into having
her attended harvest dance. Grady not Bird. After protesting, she
(29:40):
finally relented to her father's demand, but she still made
plans to meet Bird. Dance came and Grady Mitchell arrived
in his father's fine carriage, but they had a despised
Grady Mitchell more than ever. Grady didn't care about her
feelings and only wanted to be seen with a most
beautiful girl in the county. He was convinced that his
(30:03):
wealth and good looks and turned at his heart and
she'd be stupid to pass him up. While Gratty was
bragging into a group of his friends, he had a
snuck off of Bird. They're leaving though one of Gratty's
friends song. The boys ridiculed laughed at Gratty, Infuriating outside,
(30:24):
Eda and Bird kissed under a harvest moon, and Graty
Mitchell he attacked Bird, knocked him out, grabbed it of
forcing their own to the carriage. On the ride back
to Eda's farm, Gratty's embarrassment and shame fueled his anger.
He had a strangle to jump from the carriage, but
Gretty's grasp was too powerful. She finally lashed out with
(30:46):
her nails and scratched the gash into his handsome face. Livid,
Gratty stopped the carriage, grabbed it a drugger into the woods,
and strangled As her soul left her body, the church
bell and the valley rang out twelve times. Grady Mitchell
(31:08):
was arrested for murder. Grady's daddy used his influence to
get him off, regardless of it the father Bird's protests,
Grady Mitchell walked free and his heart Graty glowy at
hadn't beaten the law. He fed his arrogance. Grady went
to sleep drunk. That night. He was woke by a
(31:29):
rustling outside of his window. Grady looked out the window
to see what it was. He saw the ghost of
at Iran. He heard the ringing church bells in his head.
With each ring, it got louder, and the ghost of
at Iran got closer and closer uncause she was face
to face with him. When the last bell rang out,
she started strangling him. He was paralyzed by fear and
(31:53):
Soon he gassed his last breath, and he woke up
the next night the ghost of ved iran period and
again the bells rang and he was strangled. Night after
night the ghost appeared, and even though he tried not
to sleep, every night he was strangled. Soon, Grearty Mitchell
saw the ghost of It a rhine everywhere, and was
(32:15):
haunted by the maddening ring of the church bells throughout
the day. Slowly he distended into madness, his family's wealth
and power unable to help. Eventually, Gratty Mitchell decided to
take his own life and climbed the top of Mango
Falls and threw himself to the rocks below. But his
(32:37):
suicide wasn't successful, only mutilated his handsome face paralyzed his
strong body. Gratty Mitchell spent the rest of his life
haunted by the sound of church bells ringing in his head,
unable to scream, unable to move, unable to try and
take his life again. They say, Lissy, walk on Lettlewood
(33:02):
top at night you hear a church bell rang out.
It's a ghost of it. I Ryan looking for her
lost love, and uh, yeah, there you have it. I
love a good ghost story. It's a beautiful story and
(33:24):
beautifully told. Yeah. Thank you so much to Chris Bower
and Rhett Murphy and all the folks over at at
a Rhyan for sharing that story with us and speaking
to us. Um. Also thanks goes out to Jason Allison
of Wicked Weed for introducing us to Kelly Denson, who
(33:44):
introduced us to these fine fellows. Yes, there's a lot
of chain of introductions happening here And if you would
like to get in touch with us, if you have
a ghost story that you would like to share, oh yeah,
we would love to or from you. Our email address
is hello at saver pod dot com. We're also on
social media. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and
(34:07):
Facebook at saver Pod. Thanks as always to super producer
Dylan for making our jobs lovely, not just easy, but
pretty excellent. Thank you to our co executive producers Christopher
Hasseiotas and Julie Douglas. Thanks to you for listening, and
we hope that lots more good things are coming your way.
(34:28):
I want listeners. I'm excited for them to hear the
noc No story. Yeah, because it is wild. Yes, Oh
my goodness, there's climbing up trees by barefoot woman involved
only start on the Baptists fire. Yeah, black walnuts. Yeah.
(34:48):
You know. You go into a distillery and end up
talking about all kinds of things related
They had a book called Ghost Dogs at the Appalachia, Right, Yeah,
when shut about as well. I mean, I'm sure on
the online I could probably find that. Hello, and welcome
to Savor. I'm Anny Rees and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And
if you're listening to this on the day that it
comes out, or I mean maybe on another day, it
(00:29):
could be Halloween, it could be there's a chance that
it is. Yes, And Halloween is one of Lauren and
I's favorite holidays, maybe favorite holiday. It's certainly up there.
It's not as good for like feasting, that's true, well,
feasting on candy and then regretting everything later. Yeah, I
have fewer regrets after Thanksgiving or Christmas meals. M I
(00:53):
actually have a pretty strict rule about my Halloween candy consumption.
I allow myself five candies, and it's Reese's kit, can't
I'll enjoy butterfinger eminempe nuts and then that's it. And
like five units of candy you're not talking about. You're
allowed to eat as much of those five as you want,
only one of each. But it's king size, and I
(01:16):
have to get it for free. I can't buy them,
so I have to find them. If it's king size,
that's fine. If it's a fun size, that's fine. Anyway,
we're not talking about my candy. No, No, we are
talking about Amorrow, which strangely enough has some of the
keystones of any good Halloween story. Spirits, Yeah, the alcohol variety,
(01:39):
see what you did there, also ghosts, which is magicians
who never reveal the secrets of their tricks. They aren't tricks,
their illusions. Yes, we're talking about Amorrow, which is a
type of alcohol. While we were in Ashville, we got
to visit an Amari distillery. Yeah, and I didn't know
(02:02):
much about Amari before this, But you're a pretty big fan,
aren't you. Oh yeah. I love ordering a shot of Amari,
or perhaps one with just like a couple of ice
cubes after dinner or at the end of an evening
if my stomach is maybe a little bit unsettled. There's
a pretty good chance that if my stomach is unsettled
because I've been drinking all evening, then that shot of
(02:24):
for Net or whatever it is is the last thing
that I actually should consume. Yeah, because it is still alcohol.
But yes, I like them very much, and they're great
in cocktails. I've consumed, especially recently as bars have started
stalking more different kinds of them a whole lot around Atlanta. Yeah,
I have seen it a lot more nowadays. But I
(02:46):
remember the first time I had for NET. I was
with a coworker of ours, Chandler, and we were out
very late and he somehow came up and he was like,
you've never heard of for net, You've never had for net.
We're really going to impress his bartender and order some
for Net and we did in the bartender was like
oh wow, and he gave us a free shot. It
(03:06):
was pretty cool, man, that's lovely. It was. Yeah. I
once won a Yager drinking contest in Australia. I just
wanted to throw this in there, like humble brag, humble brag,
not so humble brag. But all the other competitors were
already wasted and I was sober. So I think that's
how I won. I should put in here. Drink responsibly kids. Yes, yes,
(03:28):
it is funny that the prize I got was a
hundred and fifty dollar bar tab. Wow. I thought that
was an interesting choice of prize. Hey, Yeager, myster, of
course is a German LaCour amri our Italian. They're in
a related group. But we've been talking about this thing
and you might be totally confused as to what we
are speaking about. So this brings us to our question,
(03:49):
am what are they? Well, Amari that's a plural, the
singular being amorrow are a loosely defined category of herbal
liquors that originated in Italy or m originally came to
popularity there anyway, and they can be in either the
category of appertivo or digestivo, meant to be drank before
(04:12):
a meal to stimulate your appetite or after a meal
to help with digestion. And if you haven't tried one straight,
if you drink cocktails, you have probably had one in
a cocktail. Types of amri are key ingredients in negronis
and apperl spritzes, both of which are pretty popular right now. Yeah,
And when it comes to a b V or alcohol
by volume, the number can range from to sev. Sometimes
(04:38):
they're aged in barrels, sometimes they're not. And if you're
wondering about flavor, well, amarrow is the Italian word for bitter,
if that gives you any idea, But they don't have
to be bitter. Well, they're always a little bit bitter,
but some range very dry, which brings out that bitterness more,
whereas others are quite sweet, sort of bitter sweet. And
depending on what herbs and spices and barks and roots
(04:59):
and roots and nuts and other snips and snails they're
made with, they can taste warm and spicy or like
bracing lee binty. And mentally, they can be citrus bright
or wood see dark. They can be grassy or vegetal,
or a little bit of all of the above. If
you're getting the idea that there is a lot of
variation in this category, you are totally correct. I love
(05:20):
this quote describing a Mari I found in a Savor
article from Southern Tigue over at New York City Bidders
Tasting Room. A more Ya Margo quote. How I explain
it to people, It's unexplainable. It's the wild West as
far as definition goes. Yeah, like apple, all that same
light orange liqueur that makes those spritz is so delightful.
Shares the category with for net Bronca, that sort of
(05:44):
mouth washy stuff that your bartender friend orders shots of,
and lots of different styles fit into the amorrow category.
Um alpino, rubber baro, car chiefio. And if all of
those words are totally unfamiliar to you, no worries. We
will get into a few of them in a bit here.
But more even than the breadth of styles of amori,
part of the difficulty in pinning down a definition is
(06:07):
the shroud of secrecy around the ingredients. You start with
a base alcohol, usually a neutral spirit like either brandy
or like a vodka, and then infuse it with whatever
you get and whatever you want to. Those ingredients are
proprietary and passed down from one generation to the next
and kept secret, like your grandmother's prize winning cookie recipe.
(06:28):
It's the Nestle Toll health recipe. Oh excuse me, tolows
i kid i kid that's an old friends reference for
anyone who doesn't know it. A marii date back to
medieval Europe, with pharmacists and monks prescribing the herbal tinctures
for medicinal purposes as early as the fourteen hundreds. Italian
(06:51):
merchants commercialized them in the seventeen hundreds, and this helped
cement their cultural significance in that country. By the nineteenth century,
Italian enjoy different kinds as either an impaired tief or
a digestif or both. It's, along with other bittering agents,
are thought to aid digestion, So why not All sorts
of ingredients that wind up in amari have this folk
(07:13):
history of medicinal use. Some of the most common ones
include Gentian root, which is thought to stimulate the liver,
chincona bark, which is the same stuff used to extract
coining and a long thought to be a stomach settler
and fever reducer, Angelica root, which is a pain reliever
and digestive aid. Mirror and green cardamom, both of which
are used for their heating properties and humoristic medicine. Um mint,
(07:36):
bitter orange, starnese, cinnamon, orris, wormwood, rhubarb. All this stuff,
all kinds of things. Yeah, Before Prohibition, Americans could get
their hands on a marine cities or areas with large
Italian communities. During Prohibition, one brand was allowed to keep
selling their wares as a cough medicine for net Bronka.
(07:59):
American soldiers returning home after being stationed in Italy during
World War Two brought with them a taste for amri,
and that opened up the US market a bit more.
One popular brand was Campari, which in Italy was seen
as a ladies drink because of the sweetness and the color.
Find that very interesting and something else interesting about for
(08:19):
net Bronca, for net Bronca and Coca Cola is the
national cocktail of Argentina. Yeah, a mari are very popular
in Argentina. Indeed they are, and a while they have
been popular there for decades and in Europe for centuries,
only recently did they start to take off here in
these states. Let's look at some amar numbers. In the
last decade, A mari sales in the US have multiplied
(08:41):
by eight times, and sales are up globally to consumption
of bitter liquors around the world raised four pent from
to seventeen and is projected to rise another thirty percent
between now and when a mari first started getting popularity
in the early aughts year in the States, that brand
for ne Bronca became a sort of bartender's handshake, ordering
(09:05):
one being sort of shorthand for saying like, oh, hey,
I'm industry too, We're chill right, And then, coinciding with
the classic cocktail movement, bars started stalking not just like
one or two for that handshake, or to make a
mixed drink, but whole ranges for sipping straight or on
the rocks. Furthermore, Americans have been developing their palette for
(09:26):
better flavors, and in this our second decade of the
twenty one century, like, think about how much more often
you see espresso offered instead of just coffee um or
the wild growth of I p A style beer. We
have whole restaurants that are devoted to kale. I love kale,
I love kale too. But what I'm saying is that
we are getting more bitter by the minute. Yes, which
(09:46):
is great news for you, right favorite flavor? It certainly
is I know you, Lauren. And making a mari isn't
a strictly European thing anymore either, Asheville is home to
one of America's few amori makers, Chris Bauer and Rhett Murphy,
founders of the Ata Rhyne Distillery Company. We'd see there
(10:06):
are marian cocktails on menus around town, and we thought
we'd stop by for a tasting and let's see what
their story was. Here's Chris. We make a regional amari
that uses plants that have traditionally been used as fault
medicine in Western North Carolina. Western North Carolina has traditionally
(10:28):
been a hub for medicinal plants. We have a very
very bio diverse region here, and so we create spirits
that reflect the flavors of this region and the and
the plants of this region. They make three different styles
of amari, A light and dry alpine style tomorrow, a
(10:53):
dark and pungent for net, and deep sweet nutty necino,
just you know, out of what's local and traditional to
North Carolina, not Italy. We went in for samples and
I think that I'm the only one of the three
of us along with superproducer Dylan, who's familiar, particularly with
the category. It's a very intense experience, and when we
(11:13):
were talking about tasting notes, we we definitely had responses
all across the board. I was just like, oh, this
one tastes grassy and floral. And I'm notoriously really bad
at describing flavors, which is great for this job. I
do remember that I never had anything like can occino before,
and I remember that being kind of both sweet and
(11:34):
chocolate but a little bitter. I really liked it. And
then the other ones. Floral is a good description. I
think they were pretty earthy and floral. Yeah, it is
like there's so many flavors going on that can be
hard to describe. Here's Chris again along with Rhett. The
interesting thing about you know tomorrow as again as a
(11:56):
genre of spirits, as you know, it's this intense combination
of different botanicals and how they react in your mouth,
in your palate. You can have a very subjective experience
of what you're tasting and part of when when we
were developing these flavors, which took a really long time,
(12:16):
the addition or subtraction of certain things wouldn't necessarily do
what you thought it would do because of the synergy
of ingredients together. Actually is kind of the beauty of
these things. As far as what makes up that flavor profile.
Like magicians safeguarding their secrets, the creators weren't telling. We'll
get into that after a quick break for word from
(12:38):
our sponsors, and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So yes,
secrecy injury. As we have discussed, tradition is a big
part of the lore around Amari, and the folks at
(13:00):
at Orion wanted to honor that when we asked about
the ingredients and process behind at arian samari. Yeah, Lom,
what was the word. We love the traditions of the
tomorrow making right and pretty much across the board, everything
that is made, the recipes, how it's made, tends to
(13:22):
be secret. There is a tradition of secrecy that goes
along with the making of amari, and we abide by
that tradition. Yeah, I'm sure that doesn't sure, that is
not what you wanted to hear. But uh, but you
know this this comes from to me, I love amari
(13:46):
as sort of a genre of spirits because it has
this very mysterious past and this comes from these ancient
alchemical recipes that were given to emperors and given to monks,
and the history is a very almost coco in like
(14:06):
all the different mysteries and and folk tales, and but
at the end of the day, I think that it's it. Basically,
this genre started out as Faulk medicine, right. These are
elixirs or panaceas you know. They would share one part
(14:27):
of their process with us, where the ingredients come from.
Whatever goes into making these spirits is sourced locally, including
from Rhett's own farms and the surrounding woods. The exception
is during the winter months when ingredients from California and
Florida come into the equation out of necessity. That's where
their year rounds. They also make some seasonals, only available
(14:47):
for brief windows throughout the year. Some of the stuff
is wild crafted um that lends a seasonality that we
can't break through. So we have one spirit year that
we can only make one time of the year, and
that's because it comes out of the forest. We have
another one that I'm not gonna have you guys taste
(15:08):
because it's a secret. So many secrets. But let's talk
about the things that we did dry, like the noccino
And as I said, I'd never even heard of these,
and it brings us to our second what is it
moment of the episode. Noccino is a type of amari
that is made from walnuts, unripe green walnuts to be exact.
(15:33):
You pick them and chop them up whole. They'll have
a green outer shell that contains the developing inner shell
and the nut, that inner shell being the one that
you eventually would crack open to get at the nut
if you shell your own walnuts. Yeah, so you chop
them up and then you pack them with whatever botanicals
and spices you want, some sugar in there, and pack
them in alcohol that neutral spirit like the vodka the
(15:54):
brandy again. And yeah, there is a lot of history
behind Nuccino too. Luckily for us, Chris is a willing storyteller.
So traditionally, no Chino. They haven't been as big commercial
spirits as they are like homemade spirits in Italy. And
so traditionally, on said John the Baptist day, John the
(16:16):
Baptist night, the three of June was the traditional harvest day.
When the Romans took over the Britons, they discovered that
on the you know, summer solstice, they were drinking this
strange beverage that had black walnuts in it, and that
(16:39):
they would drink this beverage and they would talk to
goblins and witches. And the Romans loved this beverage so
much that they took it back to Rome and it
was a summer solstice tradition. Once the Empire turned to Christianity,
like everything else, they took the pagan holidays them into Christendom,
(17:01):
and so they made it a tradition that on St.
John the Baptist night, the women would climb the trees
barefoot to pick the black walnuts as the men tended
giant bonfires. And these bonfires were designed to keep the
(17:22):
witches away because the witches desired the black walnuts. We
told you there would be witches. We would never mislead
you about witches. Everybody wanted the black walnuts, but the
witches loved the black walnuts so much because the black
walnuts were hermaphroditic right. They had this perfect union between
(17:47):
masculine and feminine. So they would pick it at night
and they would tend to these bonfires, and they would
have to keep these witches away because what made the nutsie,
you know, work, was that the dow would fall, the
morning dew would fall on the black walnuts and impregnate
(18:09):
them with this magic, creating this um elixir and pantasy
of great health, and so that they would they would
take the walnuts on St. John the Baptist Day, and
then they would start creating the nucino and uh and
they would they would store this nucino until November when
(18:31):
they would break it out and you would celebrate the
holidays and then go through the winter and drink called
the nucino and then you would be ready to start
the process again. So we would love to have people
climb trees barefoot around here, but unfortunately, our black walnuts
(18:57):
really don't come into the right size until a little
bit later in the year. So um, when we can,
we'll keep the tradition. We were curious about what inspired
Chris and Rhet to recreate these traditions in Asheville because
its interest in distilling actually started with a different liquor.
(19:17):
You know, I grew up here in western North Carolina,
so just as a matter of fact of everyday life,
my pappy would take me into the woods and we
would you know, he would teach me about different plants
and and their uses, whether they were edible plants or
medicinal plants, and that was just like sort of a
(19:38):
part of my life that again was just sort of pedestrian.
I didn't really think too much about it, and then
as I became a teenager, I really didn't care about it.
You know. I had the opportunity as a as a
young man to live over in Europe for a couple
of years, and that's where I sort of started very
first getting to know some of the Amari and things
(19:58):
like Chartrusse. And at one point I came across the
story about how there was this counterfeit Chartreus that that surfaced,
um and I was just so fascinated, obviously by the
story of Chartreus, and I said, you know what, I'm
gonna attack this recipe. I want to counterfeit and Chartreus, right,
(20:22):
you know, bad idea. I did not figure that one out.
But what I did figure out was I started while
like working with these alpine plants, some of which I
had already known from uh here, and then it just
sort of started, just sort of a light bulb came on,
(20:42):
you know, like, well, you know this is all like
herbal liqueurs, you know Tomorrow's tonics. We have such a
huge history with that here in western North Carolina. And honestly,
one day I woke up. I was living in a
cabin out in Fairview, which is about thirty minutes outside
of town, and um, I was on sixty acres and
(21:04):
I had walked that land, and I knew what medicinal
plants we had at their root. Amri our vehicles for storytelling,
they're meant to take you to a place. Chris did
describe one experience he had with a homebrewed tomorrow is
being a little trippy, a little reminiscent of the whole
like absinth, green fairy kind of thing. Note here that
(21:25):
absinth does not actually have measurable psychoactive properties aside from
getting you drunk. We did a whole episode about that.
But I would also say that one should exercise caution
when infusing medicinal plants into boothe I think that is
some good advice. But some experiences transport you in a
different way. I just thought to myself, this is how
(21:48):
you can affect people. This is the high art, right.
That's something I love about these flavors is that there
is something like you somehow experience the history and the
care and the process, and you know that is even
a little connection to the land a little bit too,
(22:08):
you know. I mean, this is this is literally a
product of this place that I really love. And so
I don't know, there could be a little bit of
that as well, I would hope. So that's what that's
what our passion is is to have captured this place,
capture this ter war, you know, and the people everything combined.
That's what I like about tar War, right, It's everything,
(22:30):
you know, soil, people, water, insects, yeah, wind, you know.
But hey, we promised you a ghost story. We would
not stif if you want to go story and we
will get to it as soon as we get back
(22:50):
from one more quick break for a word from our sponsor,
and we're back. Thank you sponsor. So one of the
questions that we asked the guys that at a rhyme
was where did you get that name? And they were
(23:12):
a little mysterious about it, as they were about so
many things. M M. They said it was taken from
a local ghost story, but that they wanted to wait
until October to release it publicly. So we caught up
with Chris on the phone a couple of weeks ago
about why they chose that story and that name. Yeah,
the decision comes from two different places. The first one
(23:37):
was that, you know, we really wanted a very southern
um kind of name, like a beautiful very you know,
there's a lot of beautiful, unique names down here in
the South and especially up here in the mountains, and
(23:57):
we wanted to have liked this this type of of
name and something even how how it sounds, how how
you speak it, and with that and thinking about it,
like it seemed like there were so many like that
the Land of Spirits were occupied by mainly male names.
(24:20):
You know some of the classics Jack Daniels and Beamed,
you know, happy Name, Lincol. You know, it's like the
branding is sort of male dominated. And we were like,
there's so many beautiful female names. We would like to
have female names. Um. And then thinking about that, then
there's this ghost story and it's the ghost story of
(24:46):
Eta Rhyme and and to me, that name is just
a very beautiful Southern um name. And then looking into
the story itself, that is revenge story. It is a
moralistic tale, and uh, it just seemed to really fit them.
(25:08):
I don't know the zeitgeist at the moment. And ghost
stories based in Hayward County, which is you know where
my family is from, and um where it's very close
to Asheville. Um, Hayward County is one county over and
I still have a lot of family over there, and
it just seemed like a nice thing. We will never
(25:30):
turn down a good ghost story. We're a bad one
for that matter. We're pretty equal opportunity when it comes
to ghost stories. But we had to ask why whether
they are or not. I feel like ghost stories, for
the most part have much really um deep things to
say and can communicatings through uh these whether or not
(25:54):
their fantasies or not, um things that really can you know,
have impacted in our lives. So in the in the
case of the ghost story of a Run, I think
I come away with some very solid insights on humanity
and just some moral instruction that's quite you know, quite fearful,
(26:19):
uh and should be, because the world in which we
live in is not always a noice place and the
people who live in this world are always nice, and uh,
we as individuals have to endure horror through our lives,
and I think that these kinds of stories just sort
of given expression to that, whether it's our fears, our anxieties,
(26:42):
or our actual experience. But it's it's alten fun, you know.
That's also we've talked about those metaphors, the way that
horror can reflect culture before on the show when we
did that reading of a Goblin Market with the stuff
to blow your mind. Guys and Anny, you and I
have talked about it on your other stuff. Mom never
told you. Yes, I think probably anyone who's listened to
(27:05):
me speak for more than a minute, knows that I
love horror movies and I think that they are a
great reflection of anxieties we have as a culture and
moral hang ups and all kinds of fascinating parts of humanity. Yeah,
that episode, Um, if y'all don't listen to stuff mom
never told you a it's really fantastic and be and
(27:27):
he invited me on to talk about women in horror
movies and why you know that trope in the first
ten minutes of the movie where a lady is like,
I have a bad feeling about this, this seems can
we leave, and you know, all the dudes around her
are like, Oh, don't worry, You're so anxious and womanly,
it will be just fine. And then everyone hacken dies. Yes, yeah,
(27:50):
you know that old trope. That trope. Yeah, so why
are women not believed in horror movies and real life?
So go check that out if that seems like a thing,
that's interesting. I think we had a lot of fun
talking about it. But yeah, I mean, that's all very serious,
but it's also just fun. Yeah. Chris got a local
North Carolinian poet to tell the story of a Ryan
(28:12):
for them one Benjamin Prior, is it go story time?
I think it's go story time? Yes, all right, take
it away. The legend of ed Iran starts back in
Civil War days up on Leatherwood Top and Haywood County
near Cataluchi. Well, a lot of people don't know, is
(28:33):
not everybody in the South wanted to be a part
of the Confederacy. A lot of poor people didn't. And
being a poorer farming and family in Iran and her
father didn't care for the secession at all, put him
in odds with the rich people of the county. One day,
Grady Mitchell, the son of the richest man in the valley,
(28:54):
came riding up the road and laid eyes on that
Iran now and it was very beautiful in her then
on spirit fair skin, and said to glow like a
halo around her. Grady Mitchell decided he had to have her,
but Dada refused his advances because she was in love
with another boy who lived across the mountain and Shelton's
(29:14):
coat called Bird. He was a poor toback, a farmer's boy.
Eda Rhyan loved him, didn't care that he was poor
because he had a good soul and treated her with respect.
Grady Mitchell obsessed over Edda. He convinced his daddy to
use his standing to talk at his father into having
her attended harvest dance. Grady not Bird. After protesting, she
(29:40):
finally relented to her father's demand, but she still made
plans to meet Bird. Dance came and Grady Mitchell arrived
in his father's fine carriage, but they had a despised
Grady Mitchell more than ever. Grady didn't care about her
feelings and only wanted to be seen with a most
beautiful girl in the county. He was convinced that his
(30:03):
wealth and good looks and turned at his heart and
she'd be stupid to pass him up. While Gratty was
bragging into a group of his friends, he had a
snuck off of Bird. They're leaving though one of Gratty's
friends song. The boys ridiculed laughed at Gratty, Infuriating outside,
(30:24):
Eda and Bird kissed under a harvest moon, and Graty
Mitchell he attacked Bird, knocked him out, grabbed it of
forcing their own to the carriage. On the ride back
to Eda's farm, Gratty's embarrassment and shame fueled his anger.
He had a strangle to jump from the carriage, but
Gretty's grasp was too powerful. She finally lashed out with
(30:46):
her nails and scratched the gash into his handsome face. Livid,
Gratty stopped the carriage, grabbed it a drugger into the woods,
and strangled As her soul left her body, the church
bell and the valley rang out twelve times. Grady Mitchell
(31:08):
was arrested for murder. Grady's daddy used his influence to
get him off, regardless of it the father Bird's protests,
Grady Mitchell walked free and his heart Graty glowy at
hadn't beaten the law. He fed his arrogance. Grady went
to sleep drunk. That night. He was woke by a
(31:29):
rustling outside of his window. Grady looked out the window
to see what it was. He saw the ghost of
at Iran. He heard the ringing church bells in his head.
With each ring, it got louder, and the ghost of
at Iran got closer and closer uncause she was face
to face with him. When the last bell rang out,
she started strangling him. He was paralyzed by fear and
(31:53):
Soon he gassed his last breath, and he woke up
the next night the ghost of ved iran period and
again the bells rang and he was strangled. Night after
night the ghost appeared, and even though he tried not
to sleep, every night he was strangled. Soon, Grearty Mitchell
saw the ghost of It a rhine everywhere, and was
(32:15):
haunted by the maddening ring of the church bells throughout
the day. Slowly he distended into madness, his family's wealth
and power unable to help. Eventually, Gratty Mitchell decided to
take his own life and climbed the top of Mango
Falls and threw himself to the rocks below. But his
(32:37):
suicide wasn't successful, only mutilated his handsome face paralyzed his
strong body. Gratty Mitchell spent the rest of his life
haunted by the sound of church bells ringing in his head,
unable to scream, unable to move, unable to try and
take his life again. They say, Lissy, walk on Lettlewood
(33:02):
top at night you hear a church bell rang out.
It's a ghost of it. I Ryan looking for her
lost love, and uh, yeah, there you have it. I
love a good ghost story. It's a beautiful story and
(33:24):
beautifully told. Yeah. Thank you so much to Chris Bower
and Rhett Murphy and all the folks over at at
a Rhyan for sharing that story with us and speaking
to us. Um. Also thanks goes out to Jason Allison
of Wicked Weed for introducing us to Kelly Denson, who
(33:44):
introduced us to these fine fellows. Yes, there's a lot
of chain of introductions happening here And if you would
like to get in touch with us, if you have
a ghost story that you would like to share, oh yeah,
we would love to or from you. Our email address
is hello at saver pod dot com. We're also on
social media. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and
(34:07):
Facebook at saver Pod. Thanks as always to super producer
Dylan for making our jobs lovely, not just easy, but
pretty excellent. Thank you to our co executive producers Christopher
Hasseiotas and Julie Douglas. Thanks to you for listening, and
we hope that lots more good things are coming your way.
(34:28):
I want listeners. I'm excited for them to hear the
noc No story. Yeah, because it is wild. Yes, Oh
my goodness, there's climbing up trees by barefoot woman involved
only start on the Baptists fire. Yeah, black walnuts. Yeah.
(34:48):
You know. You go into a distillery and end up
talking about all kinds of things related
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Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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