Anise: Keeping It Fresh

This sweet, herbaceous spice features in everything from cookies and breads to sausages and liquors. Anney and Lauren dig into the science and history of anise.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, I'm welcome to favor Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Bolga BAM, and today
we have an episode for you about Anna's Yes. Um,
And once again, I don't know much about this one.
I feel like I'm lacking in a lot of herbs
and spices knowledge that like, I think you've had most
of them, just don't have a good idea of what

(00:30):
they are. Yeah, well and this this is this is
one that you've probably had in combination with other stuff.
You also are kind of new to, like liquorice related stuff.
So I feel like there's a there's a liquorice shaped
whole in your in your knowledge base, and I'm not
sure I want to fill it. But I suppose that

(00:51):
I didn't have a problem with licorice. It was okay, Um,
yeah I did. That was one thing I was pretty
sure about was it had a straw flavor. I know
a lot of listeners have written about it and have
had funny stories about the pronunciation and some mishaps that
have happened. Um, but yeah, yeah, this one was a

(01:12):
new And then I got confused about like star Annis
and there was like a type of annis that I
was trying to figure out. Are these all different names
for the same thing or are they different things? They're
different things. There are different things. Yeah, yeah, you can
related to that. See I guess our episodes on absinthe
and right pennel and licorice um. But uh, I mean

(01:37):
we can. We can get straight to our question if
you want to whoa okay? Annis? What is it? Well?
An is a type of herb grown mostly for its tiny, dry,
very like sweet, and strongly herbal flavored fruits, which we

(02:01):
call seeds, and confused for a lot of other things
that have similar flavors. Why do we do this? Why
do we do this? I don't understand humans. I mean,
you know, they were just they were just millennia that
we didn't have Netflix, and we had to come up
with ways to entertain ourselves. So I you know, I

(02:23):
get it. I feel like there's a lot of times
when you're explaining something to someone that's so obvious to
you and you're like, well, the folders actually called this,
and it's because at one time I thought it was
going to be this thing, and then it became this thing,
and so now and people are looking at you like
and you didn't just fix this or no, No, we've

(02:45):
been doing the show for what like four years, and
are our related Google drive folders are still called eat
stuff because that was a very early name for the project. Yep.
And we could change it and we haven't. We have Nope,
So I guess I can't judge. Do what is what
I'm saying anyway? And yes, um uh it is often

(03:09):
the primary flavor in stuff like licorice and absinthe um.
It tastes sort of warm and floral and uh. And
and you have like medicinal like okay, you know, you know,
like how the skin of carrots is a little bit
better m hm. But but then but then the but
then the actual flesh is sweeter. Yeah. So and it

(03:31):
is like if you took a whole carrot and squished
it down into a tiny seed and gave it opinions,
I'd have opinions if somebody squished me down to see
I bet you would. Oh yeah, I would thank you.
And why I'm proud of that fact. But I am

(03:53):
um okay, okay. Botanical name pimpanilla as um um or anism,
I'm not sure. Yeah, And it's it's it's a tender
annual herb that will grow a foot or too high,
like a third two thirds of a meter. That is
um and flower with these little sprays of white or
yellow blossoms. Um it looks a little bit like a
like cilantro or parsley um or or Queen anne Splace,

(04:17):
or or like a carrot tup uh. It is in
the Apiacea or carrot family. Um It likes warm weather.
Each flower will produce a small fibrous pod like fruit,
and that is what we call an aniseed. The seeds
can be used whole or ground up, or you can
extract the flavorful oils and use those in any number
of ways. It's used in both sweet and savory dishes,

(04:39):
um all kinds of baked goods like cookies and cakes
and breads from pandem Worth those two biscotti. Um it's
a common seasoning and sausages, especially Italian type sausages. UM
It goes into marinades, and it's for fish dishes. It
gives warmth to curries and soups steeped into liquors like
uh pastie and abs. And you can also use the

(05:01):
leaves and stems as a fresh herb or garnish and
salads or whatever, and a nice and similar tasting plants.
And there are many um uh, tarragon, the aforementioned phennel
um star niece, which yes, is a different plant. Um.
They all contain this compound called an athol, which is
what gives them that that herbal pikant bitter flavor. Um.

(05:24):
And it's also what makes liquors like pastis and absinthe
go cloudy when you add water, because this is a
type of oil that's highly soluble in alcohol but way
less soluble in water. So so when you add water
to these drinks, the anthel beads up and um and
makes the drink look foggy. Yes, And I went down

(05:44):
this rabbit hole which I had already gone down years
ago because we had our video about absence. Yeah yeah, yeah,
when you pour absinthe in this kind of weird effect
and we're gonna be talking a little bit about uzoh
yeah yeah yeah, that's another one right, yes, And I
was like, what's the USO effect? And I went on
this whole thing because it's got a name like that.
I gotta know, you do what we already talked. I

(06:06):
just didn't know it was called that Oh yeah, yeah,
and uh, nutrition wise, most of the time, you're not
probably eating enough to get a whole lot of a
nutritive effect. But um, but this has been used medicinally
forever um for any number of things and is currently

(06:28):
under investigation for possible antifungal anti microbial type properties along
with everything else. But but it's more research is necessary.
The human body is complicated. Before ingesting a medicinal quantity
of anything. Check with a doctor who wasn't us. Oh,

(06:50):
I love the different inflections you do every time. It
makes it exciting, like we're saying the same thing slightly
different tonally, I'm just starting to keep it fresh, just
to keep it fresh. Yes, that's our goal here at SABER.
It is because we just keeping it fresh, that is right.

(07:11):
Um okay, So there aren't a lot of numbers that
we could easily access when it comes to ANNIS. I
found exactly one we did, um, and that was under
I was like, oh, I didn't look up any numbers. Heck, so, uh,
my one number for ANNIS for y'all is that in

(07:32):
the Culinary Academy of India attempted a Guinness World Record
for the largest display of bread varieties and Anna's flavored
bread was one of the five hundred and eleven types
that they baked up. I'm stuck on the word attempted. Um.

(07:55):
I didn't read a follow up about how it went. Um.
But but I understand that they assembled a team of
like a hundred pastry chefs and baker's who were going
to be working for like forty eight hours to attempt this.
But I but I didn't. I couldn't find a press
release afterwards, so I don't know anything could have happened.

(08:18):
Bred baker's a symbol. Indeed, Oh my goodness, Well, if
anyone knows how that went down, please please let us know. Um,
we do have some history for you, goodness, we do.
But first we've got a quick break for a word
from my sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes,

(08:47):
thank you. So historians think Annis originated in the Mediterranean
and or the Middle East and or southwest Asia. The
date was difficult to pin down, but I think old
is a yes, pretty old, Yeah, yeah, pretty old. We'll
say that's our scientific ing go use around here. Some
speculation is one of the oldest fragrant seeds. Adding more

(09:10):
confusion to this whole thing is that historically the name
and its has been applied to all kinds of things,
from deal to finnel seeds. That's the problem we run
into a lot. In any case, Annis was used both
medicinally and culinarily, often as a flavor to liqueurs and
baked goods. The ancient Romans prize Annis so much so

(09:30):
at one point it was acceptable to use to pay taxes. Yeah,
a popular cake enjoyed at the end of ancient Roman
feast was spiced with Annis and something. This is the
basis of the cake at the end of a festivity tradition,
and perhaps even the wedding cake, which is cool and
our old pal Plenty wrote about Annis almost two thousand

(09:54):
years ago. Be it green or dried, it's wanted for
all concerts and flavorings, mm hmm. But disially, it was
primarily used to promote digestion and diminished flatulence, although Plenty
wrote that win mixed with other things that could help
with insomnia, even recommended hanging some of her children's beds
to keep away nightmares that would quench your thirst and

(10:15):
make you sweat. Combat ill effects from asp bites and
childbirth induced insomnia as well. So all all kinds of things. Um. Oh,
And of course he wrote that it was an aphrodisiac. Uh.
Many physicians wrote about it uh. And it was also
recommended or used as a breath freshener too. Anus was

(10:38):
mentioned in a fifteen fifty BC document out of ancient
Egypt as a treatment for dental and stomach diseases. It
popped up in the Old Testament quote woe unto you
scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, for ye pay tithe of Mint
and Annis and Cuman have omitted the weightier matters of
the law, judgment, mercy, and faith. Yes, I was having

(11:03):
flashbacks to when I was a young child going to
church and I'd have to read in front of people,
and I would be so nervous because it had all
that old timey language in it, and I want to
get tripped up. I didn't want to look like a
fool in front of the church members anyway, and has
continued to be used medicinally during the Middle Ages for

(11:24):
all kinds of things. Epilepsian children issues with the gallbladder,
liver and kidney hiccups, which I had to go down
because it was called hiccuffs. And then I was like
I've been saying it wrong this whole time. Now you
have not no, no, you're fine, thank you. Um. Some
people may believe the garlands that were made with Annis
and we're eating Ani seeds or leaves could protect from

(11:47):
the evil eye, um, evilness at large. Perhaps monks might
have started distilling Suzo in fourte century and that is
a future episode for sure. But yeah, Suzo made with
Annis perhaps around that time. Um, and it was so valued,
and its was so valued. King Edward the First levied

(12:07):
in import tax on it in five to raise money
to repair the London Bridge. Mm hmm. In the late
fifteen hundreds, John Gerard wrote about Annis and his work
Great Herbal or Great Herbal. The seed wasteth and consumeth
wind and is good against belchings and upbraidings of the stomach,

(12:28):
alaith gripings of the belly, provoketh you'rin gently, maketh abundance
of milk, and stirs up bodily lust. It's stayeth. The
last parentheses DIARYA and also the white flux parentheses lukaria
in women. And there's so many things in there that
are terrible, But I love that sounds funny. Like gripings

(12:50):
of the belly upbraidings of the stomach. We all know
what he's talking about. We've been there. Give gonna case
the point pretty well, I says, mm hmmm. According to
some sources, early colonists in Virginia were required by law
to plant six anti seeds. And I really wanted to.

(13:13):
I thought that it had to be something easier to confirm.
It was hard to it seems like it's it seems
like a pretty good fact. But I couldn't like find
I wanted to find the law and the reasoning behind it. Sure,
and you wanted the language, and yeah, and I wanted
to read it here for you. I could not find that.

(13:35):
But uh, that's fascinating. In any case, UM medics during
the Civil War believed that annas had antiseptic quality, so
they might have used it in that way. Um okay,
this is interesting. During the eighteen hundreds and even into
the nineteen hundreds, steam trains in Britain sometimes used annas
oil as a sort of alarm system. So if the

(13:56):
engine reached levels of heat that would destroy pieces of
the machinery, the annus oil, which was also reaching this heat,
would give off a smell to alert the conductor. Yeah. Um.
This method was employed when the Mallard set the record
for fastest steam Trade steam railway locomotive in England. It
reached eight miles per hour about two and two point

(14:20):
five eight kilometers per hour. Um. Very interesting that Annis
oil never went off from what I remember. But yeah,
this was a lot of articles written about this one
specific record. No, no, and and that's no, that's that's
super fascinating. And I mean, you know, like I I
for for sure all of us are familiar with the

(14:41):
like with the like, oh, something smells like it's about
to catch fire, yes, like electronics smell. Oh yes, and
that's that's never my smelling. Annis would be a lot
more of a pleasant way two come to the realization
that something terrible is about to happen. But then you

(15:02):
might have bad associations of that is Oh no, that's
the flip side. It's the flip. As someone who frequently
pushes the limits on my smoke detector, I think it
would happen pretty quickly for me. But yeah, yeah, yes, definitely. UM.

(15:22):
And J. R. R. Tolkien's The Hobbit, which was first
published and it was one of the primary ingredients for
Bilbo seat cakes that he serves to gand Off in
the Dwarves at the beginning of the story. Let you
can see our fictional foods episode. I can't remember if
we talked about that in specific, imagine we did, but
this also I had a harder time confirming than I

(15:43):
would have thought. It seems like the consensus is yes,
but I couldn't find like the quote where they say
and it's but anyway, um, Florida Annis is a dwarf
species of Annis, also called swamp hoppits. So it seems
like at large, we have accepted that this is the case,

(16:05):
that this is a thing. Yes, Um, and I went down.
I tried to learn more about swapoppet and then it
wasn't that much information other than what it is and
like this guy discovered it in Alabama and Pensacola and
like the ninety forties. I think, okay, Um, I could
be way off on that, but there wasn't that much
information other than this is kind of like a botanical entry.

(16:29):
This is what it looks like. Sure, yeah, yeah yeah.
I also want to put in here apologies if anyone
has been distracted by the by the cat bell noises
that have been happening in the background. There there is
a great cat who is just making his presence known today.
He's just like, hey, he's just joining us. Oh well,

(16:50):
happy to be happy to have you here, Happy to
be here. Swapoppet would be a really great name for cat.
Oh my gosh, I have known so many cats for
whom that would be a very appropriate name. Like, to
be honest, I myself feel a little bit like a
swamp hopp it. So yeah, also a great name for Yoda. Oh,

(17:13):
He's totally a swamp poppy, even as like a little
hot small doors. Yeah yeah, Wow, we're onto something here,
not a not a dank, musty, dirty hole, but but
a but a Yoda hole and that means comfort. Yeah,

(17:35):
I imagine it's still dank up in there a little bit. Yeah,
it was less well appointed than than Bilbo's hobbit hole
for sure. It's very humid on Dagoba. Yeah. Yeah, well,
who knows, maybe maybe Yoda enjoyed some And it's actually
I am going on Laura knows, I kind of talked

(17:56):
about in the past episode, But I'm going on like
a sad soup journey because I love soup. I also
love sadness. Um, so I'm combining the soup and the
sadness to bring comfort, and I'm going on a Star
Wars soup journey this weekend. Yeah, so I made I'm
going to make the root leaf stew that Yoda makes
in Empire Strikes Back. Yes, it's gonna be good. It's

(18:20):
gonna be good. I care if it's annis in it though,
I'll let you know. I'll let you know, Okay, okay, great,
Definitely keep us updated. I will very important, very important information. Um.
But yes, alas, that is all we really have to
say about Anis. There wasn't too much. It was hard
to hard to track. Yeah, it's it's one of those
things that there's kind of, Um, it's kind of been

(18:42):
so omnipresent that I feel like there's just kind of
it just wasn't written about a lot for a long
time because it was just like, oh, yeah, it's just
this thing that everybody uses and we've got it and yes,
no need to write it down. Everyone knows. Uh, it's
obvious and screwing us food podcasters over forever. Thanks history. Yeah,

(19:14):
but we do have some list of you for you,
that's right. Um, But first, we've got one more quick
break for a word from a sponsor, and we're back.
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, We're back with the swapoit.

(19:43):
I was doing the like this fog and then the
I think it's a my knock from Daga book. I
was definitely getting the day above vibes. G Yeah, yeah,
I'm finally getting okay at this. I only took many years.

(20:04):
I'm finally getting okay at this. Is uh a kind
of bleak statement. My dude, Well, it fits with the
sad soup theme? It does? It does? You're right, Yes,
I'm just trying to stay on theme, That's all, Melanie wrote.
I recently listened to the episode on bunt cakes and

(20:26):
want to encourage you to try making one. If you
use the baking stray with flour, the cake releases from
the pan very easily. We make them frequently for fellowship
time after church, and my kids and husband got me
a new one for my birthday this summer. I wanted
to make a patriotic one for July four so I
made a blueberry cake and decorated with blueberries and strawberries.
I was a little worried because of the blueberries and

(20:47):
blueberry jam and the cake. But it came out great,
and Melanie sent a picture and it looked lovely. It
did it does? That sounds very nice and very refreshing,
right know? Oh? Yes, lord, I think I really, I
really do think that I need to bust out that

(21:08):
um that like like octopus themed, yes, han and do
something weird. Yeah, I oh yes, please, I'll be a
very good dungeons and dragons, I was about to say,
and this would also be very um like, like we've
done a lot of seafaring type activities. There's a whole
sea monster out there, so this would this would be

(21:31):
very thematically appropriate. It's true, it's true, or our type
monster that roams the seas. Yeah, she's mad. She's mad
about a bunch of stuff. She is soon you may
find out what. Oh no, dear, Oh I'm worried. I

(21:54):
like And he said she likes sadness, and I'm kind
of like, oh, heck, this is it's great. It's good storytelling.
But sometimes I'm like, oh no, very poorly. Yeah, it's
bad of a mismatch because I'm so excited about like
how terrible things will go. Don't you understand it's a tragedy,

(22:16):
like my level of like voice and energy does not
match like what's happening, and furthermore like like I'm right
there with you, like I also enjoy sad things, but
like I'm thinking about my poor character and she's very sweet. Yes, yes,
sometimes I feel guilty about that. She will not understand,

(22:38):
like she's already mad at me. Oh gosh, yes, well wow,
something to look forward to. Oh my half forc Paladin.
She's she's coming right along. She's going to be okay,
she is, Jess wrote, My husband and I love precio sangria.

(23:01):
It comes in different sizes, so you two should definitely
try it before you decide that you don't care for
the prepackaged stuff. It packs a punch, is an overly
sweet and has so much flavor. It's a flavor. I
love to save her points for puns. Good recommendation. Thank you, Yes, absolutely,

(23:23):
I'm going to keep an eye out. It's one of
those things, like I don't even it probably is at
my local stores. I just never even look in that section,
so right, sure, but I'm excited to give it a go.
I mean, and a lot of you have written in
with your sangria recipes, which is so yes, okay, all right.
Next D and D game is gonna be a lit
It's it's gonna be wild, It's gonna be I cannot

(23:48):
wait because you know a little fore voting for you, Lauren.
The next one's gonna be real weird, like real weird,
way hold on in comparison to the other ones. Which thing.
I'm done, So let's get some sangria and buntcake up
in there. I don't make it way less weird weirder.

(24:18):
Who knows, lot, see, I look, I look forward to it, yes, yes,
and we always look forward to messages from you listeners.
Thanks to both of these listeners for writing to us.
You would like to write to us, you can our
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(24:39):
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